I hate it, but this Epstein story is destroying my confidence in government, which was already in tatters by Trump’s election. Now Mike Johnson has shut down the house of representatives early, sending everyone home for an early vacation, in order to prevent a vote to release the Epstein files? That’s a blatant coverup. The secrets are dribbling out…now we learn that Trump is mentioned many times in the files, but we don’t know the context.
It’s also raising questions we should have considered long ago. How did Epstein transition from high school teacher to billionaire with a private plane and his very own island? Personally, I’d like to know how to do that, but if it involves sex trafficking I’ll pass. Is the market for young girls that lucrative? Who is buying that access?
I’m also wondering if giving someone a billion dollars flips a switch in their brain and turns them into predators on children, or if being a predatory pedophile makes it easier to become a billionaire. Either way, it’s another reason to outlaw billionaires.
You know, the computer in The Forbin Project was a dictator, but not a pedophile. Just sayin’.
A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit. Epstein was rotten from the beginning.
The current Trump and GOP actions are definitely not what innocent people do.
A coverup is in progress as we watch.
The betting is that Ghislaine Maxwell will lie and deny Trump was ever there in return for a presidential pardon.
It’s her only chance to get out of prison right now.
Her alternative is to tell the truth and risk being found dead in her cell as another suicide.
You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you, and you are not a conspiracy theorist if there really is a conspiracy.
There is enough information out there right now to say that Trump is a child molester who was heavily involved with Epstein and Maxwell.
I don’t see that any more evidence is going to make any difference whatsoever to the GOP and his MAGA base.
They know he is a creep, they know he isn’t very bright, they know he is cruel and vindictive.
They don’t care.
When there is already a pile of atrocities, adding a few more isn’t going to make much difference.
These are the purported reasons Merrick Garland’s DOJ didn’t release the Epstein files when the Democrats were in control.
1. Protecting victims’ privacy
2. Grand Jury secrecy rules
3. Potential interference with ongoing investigations
None of these rationales impress me very much. If the Dems had proof that Trump was involved in Epstein’s crimes with underage girls, what are the odds they’d sit on them, especially in the run-up to the 2016 election, which everyone knew would be close?
Now, Trump’s DOJ is playing the same games.
This leads me to one unpleasant conclusion : There must be many powerful men, both left and right, involved in Epstein’s crimes.
Relevant question. How did Epstein go from being a high school math teacher to being a billionaire with his own private island and jets?
Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt es sich ganz ungeniert.
ahcuah @4: if there’s no evidence of a conspiracy, you’re a conspiracy hypothesist; if there is, you’re a conspiracy theorist.
It’s been noted that Epstein showed an interest in young girls at Dalton School where he was a teacher. He was only 21 when he started teaching there so his “flirting” was perhaps not that unusual, though inappropriate.
A couple of students at the school were children of Alan Greenberg, the CEO of Bear Sterns, and Epstein finagled an introduction. When Epstein lost the teaching job, Greenberg hired him at a low-level position at Bear Sterns. Epstein moved up rapidly. My guess is that Epstein was intelligent enough, “savvy” you might say, to talk-the-talk with rich and well-connected men. We may never know if he was procuring young girls for these old men he was working for, although it’s not impossible. He was definitely involved in some shady financial dealings.
Anyway, that’s how he became a billionaire.
By the time Trump enters the picture, Epstein’s enterprise is in full bloom and eventually under Federal prosecution in Florida. The story really breaks when the US attorney in the district, Alexander Acosta, helped broker a deal for Epstein. Then Acosta became Secretary of Labor for Trump’s first term. The Miami Herald blew the story of these connections which forced Acosta to resign and some of the nature of the relationship between Trump and Epstein began to emerge.
Of course, we already knew that Trump was a sleaze-ball and rapist. He bragged about it on the so-called “Access Hollywood Tape.” I’ll never understand how he still got elected after that.
The Trump administration is trying to suppress the Epstein files. Why?
I see three reasons that are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
A. Trump is implicated in child sex abuse.
B. Friends/benefactors of Trump are implicated.
C. (and here’s where the conspiracy comes in) There really is a cabal of wealthy, powerful men who have threatened Trump, his family and his money if the files get out.
Epstein made his initial fortune acting as a money manager for other rich people. This part of his business is also subject to a lot of questions. A lot of it is private business and Epstein is suspected of ripping off his clients to make money, at the very least he was involved in shady land dealing and investments.
Epstein wanted more then just being rich, he wanted political influence and to be a behind the scenes power guy. You can get that through just money but it takes a lot of money and time to build up the connections. By offering things directly to politicians he could bypass a lot of the work. He did more then just run a sex ring, he provided jets to politicians who wanted to get home for the weekend and his private island was a private resort for the connected and powerful.
I suspect information on who got things from Epstein had been keep quiet because there are a lot of politicians and other powerful people on the list for relatively innocuous reasons. A politician shouldn’t borrow a private jet from a rich guy to go home for vacation but it isn’t nearly as serious as having an underage massage expert on the flight also and Epstein did both.
I know there’s no way to prove it, but I believe Epstein’s lawyers conveyed a message from Trump that unless he offed himself, Trump would go after Maxwell with everything he had.
Another link in the chain of “How did Epstein transition from high school teacher to billionaire with a private plane and his very own island?” is something I first read at Lawyers, Guns & Money: It’s the crime, and the cover-up. In an article quoted there:
Basically, after he got himself a job pretending to be a financier, he pulled off con-man and cult-like tactics on rich people like Wexner, making their lives more interesting and separating them first from anybody who would warn against him before appropriating money for himself.
It’s easier to pull off cult tactics once you at least look rich and lots of people will inherently assume that means you must be smart; see Trump himself as further evidence. No wonder he and Epstein got along so well.
Another angle to remember is that it wasn’t just rich and powerful people in America Epstein was involved with.
Prince Andrew ended up paying 12 million and is effectively persona non grata which is about the maximum punishment a member of UK royalty is likely to receive (which is one reason I personally loathe the monarchy). Think of the diplomatic fallout should he or other foreign dignitaries face charges of rape or child sex trafficking.
One reason the Biden presidency may have sat on the files even with his Trumpiness all over them.
Billionaires are at the top of the pyramid for all pyramid schemers. There’s no way a person can be worth that much money being principled and honest. They are at best, respected criminals.
flange @ #15 — I’m not sure I entirely agree with your position. There are a few billionaires that I can think of who are reasonably principled and honest. Taylor Swift is said to be a billionaire, and she seems principled and hones to me…as far as I know. Melinda French Gates seems like a decent person, though the source of her wealth is her divorce from Bill Gates who, while perhaps not the most evil billionaire in the world, does have a reputation for some questionable business practices. However, I’ll give you those are the exception rather than the rule.
“Billionaires are at the top of the pyramid for all pyramid schemers. There’s no way a person can be worth that much money being principled and honest. They are at best, respected criminals.”
Here’s some data from Forbes about respected criminals who lack principles and honesty:
Richest Self-Made Women in Entertainment (2025):
Oprah Winfrey:
With a net worth of $3.1 billion, Oprah continues to dominate the list, demonstrating her enduring success through various ventures, including Netflix projects, real estate, and investments.
Kim Kardashian:
She is known for her shapewear brand Skims and skincare line SKKN by Kim, contributing to her $1.7 billion net worth.
Taylor Swift:
With a net worth of $1.6 billion, Taylor Swift’s wealth has grown due to the success of her music and her Eras tour.
Rihanna:
Her wealth, estimated at $1.4 billion, stems from Fenty Beauty and Savage X Fenty.
We know some of the context, because there’s stuff that has been public for years. Trump is in Epstein’s flight logs 7 times, for example. There’s some phone messages (that is, his name was written on a piece of paper by a secretary showing that he had called).
And there’s Epstein’s 2010 deposition (this article is from 2016, so not at all new.):
https://web.archive.org/web/20190811183445if_/https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j59vm8/the-salacious-ammo-even-donald-trump-wont-use-in-a-fight-against-hillary-clinton-bill-clinton
Although it is new that the video clip of that deposition has been made available.
https://bsky.app/profile/meidastouch.com/post/3luobt3qlbs2t
Or transcending typical politics, like being CEOs of important financial institutions. What happens to the economy if they are arrested?
Or maybe some are powerful criminals, who would not be afraid to have their revenge for arrest and exposure be in the form of assassinations or violence against Trump properties?
Or maybe all of the above and more: Politically powerful Democrats and Republicans, politicians of other countries, financially powerful CEOs, and wealthy and ruthless criminals.
Don’t forget blackmail that follows for being anywhere near that market.
SiriusXM’s Make It Plain – 2 Live Crew’s Luther Campbell left a Trump party because of drugs, sex and underage women (10:12)
Host Mark Thompson did an 2016 interview with someone who attended a Trump house party in the early 1990s. Rapper Uncle Luke claimed he was there with Eddie Murphy and Mike Tyson but bailed after 45 minutes when he noticed drugs and half-or-fully naked pageant girls Trump invited who didn’t look of age. He didn’t ask their ages and left in fear of being recorded on camera for extortion. He said it was a party with no music. Various unspecified sex acts in lots of rooms like Eyes Wide Shut, and, he added evasively “other non-sex things going on that you don’t want to be involved in”. He didn’t see Trump doing drugs or having sex. Trump invited the celebrities, said there’d be girls, and gave a tour.
Suspiciously unconcerned given the illegality and depravity he insinuates: late, vague, on an overlooked medium. MeidasTouch resurfaced it this week.
/It aired on Sirius 2016-04-11. Published on YouTube 2016-11-07, one day before the election. Only 32k views as of today.
Daily Beast – Inside Donald Trump’s one-stop parties: Attendees recall cocaine and very young models (2024-10-24)
Regarding the billionaire artists: these are the artists with most albums sold:
The Beatles
Michael Jackson
Elvis Presley
Elton John
Queen
Madonna
Led Zeppelin
None of them are billionaires.
lotharloo, those are all ancient; you are missing the point.
Even the bot gets it!
Me: The claim is “these are the artists with most albums sold: The Beatles; Michael Jackson; Elvis Presley; Elton John; Queen; Madonna; Led Zeppelin”; critique that claim and note the date of peak success for each of those. Use plaintext.
Bubblebot: Here’s a plain-text summary of the peak success eras for each artist in the original claim:
The Beatles: Peak from 1964 to 1970, dominated charts and redefined pop music.
Michael Jackson: Most influential between 1982 and 1991, with Thriller and Bad leading global sales.
Elvis Presley: Breakout in the mid-1950s; notable resurgence with his 1968 comeback.
Elton John: Rose in the early 1970s; major second wave in 1997 with Candle in the Wind.
Queen: Peak from 1975 to 1986, highlighted by Bohemian Rhapsody and Live Aid performance.
Madonna: Dominated from 1984 to 1992, with later resurgence in the late ’90s.
Led Zeppelin: Key era was 1969 to 1975, defined by pioneering hard rock and classic albums.
Me: What’s today’s equivalent of $1M in 1970?
BB: 💰 Adjusted for inflation, $1 million in 1970 is equivalent to approximately $8.37 million in 2025.
This reflects a cumulative price increase of about 737% over 55 years, with an average annual inflation rate of 3.94%. The calculation is based on the U.S. Consumer Price Index (CPI), which tracks changes in purchasing power over time.
[dredging up old memories]
Me: was abba offered a $1B contract?
BB: Yes—ABBA was reportedly offered $1 billion USD in 2000 by a consortium of American and British promoters to reunite for a 100-concert tour, but they declined. Björn Ulvaeus confirmed the offer, emphasizing that the group valued their personal lives and legacy over financial incentives.
However, some sources suggest the original figure may have been 1 billion Swedish kronor (about $140 million USD at the time), which was later misreported as $1 billion USD. The story’s inflation across media outlets makes the exact amount debatable, but the rejection itself is well-documented.
Um, right, topicality. Due.
Colbert sure seems enthusiastic to be paid for this:
@JM
Me: The claim:
“The artists in the bands with most albums sold — The Beatles, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, Elton John, Queen, Madonna, Led Zeppelin — have reached a net worth more than a billion dollars in today’s value, individually.”
John Morales’ AI God:
Critique:
1. Factual Inaccuracy – Not All Reached Billion-Dollar Net Worths Individually:
Very few of the artists listed — individually — have reached a net worth of over \$1 billion, even in today’s adjusted dollars. Based on available financial data:
Michael Jackson: His estate has earned over \$2 billion since his death, but his personal net worth before passing was estimated to be negative or modest due to debt.
Elvis Presley: Died in 1977. His lifetime earnings were substantial, but his personal net worth at death was not close to a billion, even adjusted for inflation.
The Beatles (John, Paul, George, Ringo): Only Paul McCartney is credibly estimated to have surpassed \$1 billion in net worth. Others (George Harrison, Ringo Starr) were wealthy but not billionaires.
Madonna: Her net worth is widely estimated at around \$850M to \$900M — close, but not quite at \$1B.
Elton John: Estimated net worth is between \$500M and \$600M.
Queen (Freddie Mercury, Brian May, Roger Taylor, John Deacon): No individual member is known to have reached billionaire status. Mercury passed away in 1991. The band’s music has continued to earn, but personal net worths remain well below \$1B.
Led Zeppelin (Jimmy Page, Robert Plant, etc.): Very wealthy, but none are billionaires.
2. Misuse of “Net Worth”:
Net worth includes all assets minus liabilities. It’s not the same as total career earnings. Many of these artists earned hundreds of millions but also spent or lost large sums. Debt, taxes, and management fees significantly reduce take-home wealth.
3. Inflation Adjustment Doesn’t Bridge the Gap:
Even when adjusting past earnings to today’s dollars, the artists (especially those from the 60s and 70s) did not receive the kinds of massive payouts artists can earn today through modern touring, licensing, and equity stakes. The music industry was structured very differently then.
4. Group Acts Dilute Individual Wealth:
In bands like The Beatles, Queen, or Led Zeppelin, earnings were split. For example, Queen’s catalog may be worth hundreds of millions, but split four ways (and with estates involved), that wealth doesn’t translate to individual billionaires.
Conclusion:
The claim is false. While many of these artists are extremely wealthy, very few — if any beyond Paul McCartney — have individually reached a net worth of over \$1 billion, even when adjusted for inflation. The statement oversimplifies complex financial realities and exaggerates individual wealth based on group success.
Heh. Point is, they’re ancient things. 50-year old stuff.
(Taylor Swift is current)
PS: is the output of your delusion, lotharloo.
(It’s a tool, but I know how to use it, unlike some; I use it, it does not use me)
The point is that you can make AI song whatever song you want. Also, why are you triggered by facts? I never claimed they were ancient. I’m just noting that artists like Madonna are not even close to being billionaires.
Correction: I never claimed most of them are not ancients.
Good grief, lotharloo!
I am most amused by your attempted reframing.
Me @17: [list of self-made female billionaires]
You @22: Regarding the billionaire artists: these are the artists with most albums sold: [no billionaires list].
See, I’m saying they exist, and therefore claims such as “I’m also wondering if giving someone a billion dollars flips a switch in their brain and turns them into predators on children, or if being a predatory pedophile makes it easier to become a billionaire. Either way, it’s another reason to outlaw billionaires.” and “Billionaires are at the top of the pyramid for all pyramid schemers. There’s no way a person can be worth that much money being principled and honest. They are at best, respected criminals.” perforce apply to those people.
Telling me that not all famous artists are billionaires is totally missing the point.
And it in no way disputed the actual claim at hand, never mind the ineluctable inference you failed to get.
Either it’s all billionaires, or it’s only a subset. That’s the point that is too fucking subtle for you.
@lotharloo #26, you are a Perl programmer and I claim my £5 :-)
@JM:
Those are not the claims that I made, are they? I am just noting that the less talented and less successful artists of today are making orders of magnitudefinancially than those of the past.
To get back to the thread topic, it is now reported that Pam Bondi has videos of Epstein clients, presumably in flagranti? Also, what doesn’t get reported a lot, is the hundereds of millions in settlements Trump and Epstein paid out over the decades, not just for girls, but also for young boys Trump allegedly had sex with. The names can easily be googled.
If you wonder how Epstein got this powerful, go back to Robert Maxwell and Mossad. This is why they are talking to Ghislaine now. One more favor for Trump.