It just went “whoompf”
Call off the search, the missing submersible has been found.
The ROV found a nose cone from the submersible that led them to finding a large debris field that was from the vessel, Rear Adm. John Mauger told reporters. “That was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event,” he said.
It was a catastrophic implosion.
The good news: the passengers’ demise was very, very, very quick, and they probably didn’t even realize what was happening.
Glad they didnt suffer.
That’s assuming they were even conscious. I thought their air ran out yesterday.
I did some math earlier on. Sea level air pressure is 101.3 kPa, and at 4000 metres down, it’s over 40300 kPa. Someone referenced the Byford Dolphin incident, which was about nine times sea level, and the four men were killed instantly.
Forty five times as much pressure as the Byford Dolphin. They would have been crushed so fast that they wouldn’t have had time to feel the pain, though I suspect they would have heard the cracking beforehand. As often happens, XKCD already covered it (April 2012).
They are at the bottom of the ocean, which is conveniently where all my sympathy for them is as well. I’m glad they probably didn’t suffer, I’m not cruel like that, but it’s the ultimate versión id “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”.
jsrtheta, they died before the air ran out. The implosion most likely happened when they lost contact with the submersible about two hours after they entered the water.
Are carbon fiber materials resistant to fatigue failure? If so, why isn’t carbon fiber utilized in aircraft wings?
I’ve read one report that says their final radio communication was terminated abruptly by a loud noise. That was probably the instant they died.
So will the bodies be crumpled up inside the wreckage? I’m put in mind of the scene in Goldfinger in which the dead body is crushed inside a car at the scrap metal yard.
Gilie
One of them was a teenager. I feel some sympathy for kids.
weylguy- I’m not an engineer, nor do I play one on tv but I am a pilot. And the answer to any engineering question that I’ve ever found on planes is either “Weight” or “money” or “Weight and money”. So likely that.
or the witch king of angmar crumpling into his helmet
Sad. They took a risk, bigger than the risk they knew they were taking because the engineers were liars. Now what about the 100+ kids and 500+ adults at the bottom of the Med off Greece?
Q: “Now what about the 100+ kids and 500+ adults at the bottom of the Med off Greece?”
A: “They took a risk, bigger than the risk they knew they were taking because they wanted a better life.”
@6: Carbon fiber composites are used in some aircraft parts.
Boeing 777, new wings out of carbon fiber composites
Perhaps more relevant,. carbon fiber composites are used in pressure containment vessels.
Composite pressure vessels.
However, those vessels are for containing high pressure, not for excluding it. Materials may perform substantially differently under compression as opposed to tension.
weylguy: carbon fiber can have fatigue failures. As to why they aren’t used on planes … they are.
Antigone
He was 19. Can we stop with the endless sympathy for privileged young men? For all we know it was his idea and daddy agreed.
He was 19, so not a kid.
Definitely a waste of a young life, and his mother should be very angry at his father for allowing their son to embark on such a pointless and risky endeavor. Let’s hope that the 18 and 19 year old teens in Ukraine fighting on the front lines survive long enough to have the chance at such foolishness once they have finished putting their lives on the line to save their country and the people they love.
Being instantly rendered into debris is certainly preferable to sitting in a tiny craft, in the cold dark ocean deep, counting down the hours until the air runs out.
I don’t mind that the hotshot/pilot/cowboy owner was one of those aboard, but I certainly feel sympathy for Christine Dawood , in losing both her son and husband in one horrific incident.
I very callously wonder just how many barrels of fossil fuels were pointlessly combusted by all the ships and airplanes that were searching. There is no way to rescue them, assuming you can locate them in the first place.
@12: honestly, do you give a fuck? Cos real people do.The kids at least didn’t know where they were going. Are we there yet? They are now. The adults? they weren’t billionaires out for a bit of fun. It was die or die. You complacent bastard.
jacksprocket, way to pesevere.
“honestly, do you give a fuck? Cos real people do.”
I’m most fucking certainly not wallowing in schadenfreude or celebrating the deaths of the people in the submersible, presumably also unlike “real people”.
And pointing out that the migrants (fine, not the little children) probably thought that the risk was worth it just as did the people who died in this incident and thought they’d be safe.
I get it: the basis for taking the risk is what irks you, not the fact that a risk was taken. Frivolous and wasteful in this case, and so foolish of them to do it, right?
I’ll just quote this:
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/22/missing-titan-sub-likely-intact-no-power-engineer-ron-allum-titanic-submersible)
As I think had been brought up here or the Discord there’s a saddening contrast as I was completely unaware of the disaster befalling migrants on a fishing vessel over the past several days. The tragedy for the rich folks rubbernecking the Titanic I did know about. It was everywhere:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna90336
hemidactylus, that just means you don’t follow the news, because there were plenty of stories. Google it, if you don’t believe me.
The vessel that sank in the Ionian sea had ca. 750 migrants on board. Only 104 have been saved.
.
The submersible; Here is Bob Ballard with comments.
https://youtu.be/2jJ_SSU-ocU
https://apnews.com/article/greece-italy-libya-migration-ship-sinking-c38cb83f7b85c29b0516aea2509b5878
(Hope dims for missing migrants amid questions about Greece’s actions in deadly sinking
By DEREK GATOPOULOS and NICHOLAS PAPHITIS
June 15, 2023 GMT)
Note the date.
@Matt G #8: I’m not an engineer but that’s an awful lot of pressure. That’s probably way more than is needed for the water rushing in to stop treating human bodies as if they’re singular solid objects. The water would have crushed them against the walls of the submersible, which is much tougher than a human body. And even that got turned into a debris field by the experience. If anything was left after that it would be scattered throughout the debris field which I’m assuming covers a fairly large area.
It’s probably most accurate to think of them as having disintegrated.
The submersible was made with unusual materials for a deep sea sub with a hull of carbon-fiber bonded with epoxy, reinforced with titanium ribs. This kind of structure is used in airplanes and boats because it is very strong for its weight but it is very sensitive to defects and local or point damage which can cause the strength to plunge. You have to be really precise with the resin to fiber ratios, the wetting of the fiber and have no voids or fiber folding as carbon fibers are brittle in bending. Presumably, they chose these materials to reduce the weight so a large submersible capable of holding five people would still be light enough to lift onto a modest ship where seas might be large. Another question for submersibles is that while a cylindrical shape like a gas bottle is stable for a large amount of pressure pushing from the inside, such shapes are unstable under pressure from the outside and can collapse like a squeezed coke can (oil-canning) if not precisely reinforced with internal ribs. The “no-walk” labels on airplane wings are to avoid any bending of thin structures. Properly made, carbon-fiber/resin is very strong but if you scratch or dent into the fibers that is bad.
A first version of the hull was found to show material fatigue failures under pressure cycling in a test lab and was abandoned. Presumably the bonding of resin to fiber was failing. This hull was claimed to be better. Pretty dicey.
Most submersibles are made of metals such as steel, titanium or aluminum for which the properties are very consistent.
A fun game for oceanographers is to decorate styrofoam coffee cups with a sharpie and tape them to something going to depth. What comes back is like a cup from a child’s dollhouse coffee set, about an inch high.
Blue whales travel to depths of about a mile, but the pressure changes are slower. A couple of things make this work: their lungs are filled with protein foam, billions of bubbles which stay whole but shrink to tiny size under pressure -the result is that the gas diffusion rate doesn’t change hugely and they avoid the bends. Their skulls are massive and actually hold shape while their lower bodies and ribs compress in. A blue whale would look like a famine-victim guppy at depth. The skull has air cavities and as they go down, air is pressed from their lungs into these cavities past the blow hole (soundmaker,) as they go up the air comes back out of the cavities, refilling the lungs. They can rebreathe the same air several times by varying their depth.
The rapid pressure wave these people experienced was probably like being hit with a high velocity bullet and the hydrostatic pressure waves would propagate like an explosion tearing everything to shreds. Not much left, most likely, but quick.
@7 RFK jr will probably claim then that they were killed by radio-frequency radiation from their transmission.
Curious, radio transmission? How is that possible at depth? They would have needed a cable to shallow depths or the surface.
I think there is a problem with that claim. ULF can go to about 100 feet but requires huge antennas.
You can do sonar-like ping but that’s more like Morse or teletype with low data rates (use an acoustic transponder.)
Apparently the sub did not have an acoustic transponder as it would have been a separate pod and could be located on the bottom by calling it and getting ping responses and measuring the time of flight from several ship locations.
All assume that the pressure vessel ruptured. But, reporting also covered that the viewport, which is also the “hatch” that is bolted into place, was rated to 1300 meters. That’s about 1/3 of the depth rating of their destination. If that failed, it would also instantly kill all aboard and basically, due to the momentum of inrushing water, destroy the pressure vessel. Regardless, you’re talking about a wall of water moving at the velocity of sound, shoving whatever’s in the way through the already incinerated occupants, as that much compression of their air pocket would turn it incandescent. The overpressure crushing bone and nervous system before they could process any part of the course of events, as those squishy nerves transmit data far slower than the water that was blowing into the submersible.
Rapidly enough that they’d not even realize anything was amiss.
As for one individual suspecting creaking, unlikely. Such failures aren’t like WWII movies of steel hulled submarines at shallow depths of 100 – 200 meters, these failures are instantaneous. Even deep submergence ROV’s that have failed at depth gave zero warning of impending failure – despite state of the art research equipment aboard.
Oh, the 1/3 of the required depth viewport was bought, due to Rush refusing to pay for a custom made viewport that was specified to survive that depth. The submersible was never sent to test depth, stopping just below 1300 meters, which 1300 meters was the crush depth of the viewport.
Oh, he also refused to hire anyone who was experienced in the field, preferring inexperienced technicians and engineers, at least one chosen because the guy surfed.
wzrd1, some of us think it’s better to be acquainted with the facts before pontificating.
“The Titan made its first dive to the Titanic in July 2021, and made a total of six dives to the wreck in 2021 and seven in 2022. Each dive typically had a pilot, three paying passengers, and a guide on board.”
(Wikipedia)
—
Interesting that my various mentions of Nargeolet and his expertise seem not to have impacted on you, Jubal.
@11 The engineers were decidedly not liars and several of them–including one who worked on the Titan project–warned the Titan project that they were taking exceptional and unjustifiable risks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/06/21/titanic-missing-submersible-lawsuit-oceangate/c2ecb260-0ff7-11ee-8d22-5f65b2e2f6ad_story.html
https://abcnews.go.com/International/video/james-cameron-similarities-titanic-wreck-tourist-100316672
Try to remember that James Cameron sent a submersible–successfully–to the Mariana Trench and before he got into film, he was actually a physics/engineering student at California State University. He also appears to have a lot more respect for the cold equations of the universe than the idiot (Stockton Rush) who bankrolled and greenlit the Titan submersible (OceanGate).
silvrhalide (O salt of the silver!), for you:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/jun/22/james-cameron-titan-sub-implosion-titanic
@6 & 13 Metal (aluminum & steel, mostly) are used for aircraft for a variety of reasons. Carbon fiber is flexible but also more brittle and repeated, accumulating damage/stress is less fixable/repairable than metal, which also fatigues but fatigues differently and is also more ductile than carbon fiber. Metal bends/deforms but carbon fiber frays and splits.
The other key difference is that airplanes are scrapped after a certain number of flights/time, precisely because the materials will age and pretty much all materials failure is catastrophic failure. A lesson that Titan/OceanGate failed to heed. They should have scrapped the Titan, or at least the vehicle they were using when they first started to notice the aging/delamination of the material. Instead, the morons apparently figured that because nothing bad happened–yet–that nothing bad would happen.
Morons.
(nice epithet, there)
@29
There is a reason all the US military and space projects cost an arm and a leg. They are tested extensively and in some cases, destructively, to ascertain absolute limits of performance. They also use high-end custom machined parts. The parts are expensive because there is a lot of waste in the milling and manufacture of the parts and because of the time expended in actual milling/manufacture. I had a friend (now sadly deceased) whose career was in high-end machining (he was a skilled lathe operator for metal parts). He explained extensively why said parts cost so much. He had to throw out a lot of machined parts that either deformed in the machining or else had other material failures which were not immediately discovered during manufacture but only later on, in testing. If you only make four custom bolts in a day, out of exotic materials, that sure drives the costs up. (Skilled machinists are now rare, because no one goes into the field and to do high end work like that takes training and experience, which is why skilled machinists make a lot of money.)
Looks like Stockton cut a lot of corners, in design, testing and materials. And it caught up with him.
The phrase you are looking for is “more money than sense”.
silvrhalide, you do amuse me.
You do realise that 13 successful trips (all testing aside) to the wreck are documented, right?
(Quite remarkable how the disinformation and spin Jubal is putting out is bought by the — well, probably not morons)
PS silver compound:
More bullshit than sense, in your case.
@19. tacitus & #15. Giliell : Reagrding the 19 year old aboard the Titan
Source : https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-23/submersible-titanic-missing-debris-coast-guard/102514252
(Scroll a long way down.)
Glad he didn’t suffer. Yeah he was a rich kid (arguably people don’t become adults until mid-20’s really FWIW) but still..
@12. John Morales :
A: “They took a risk, bigger than the risk they knew they were taking because they
wanted a better life.were fleeing for their lives from persecution, torture, genocide, and horrors that nearly all of us can barely begin to imagine.Fixed it for you. Totally different situation to taking a really costly joyride for the fun of it. (Guide doing his job excluded here.)
^ … Joyride to a mass grave where many poor people drowned because another rich company didn’t take adequate safety precautions and may have deiberately trapped some of the third class passengers whilst making sure that most of the richer ones had a chance to escape at that.
StevoRL:
Rephrased it with loaded language.
Me: “And pointing out that the migrants (fine, not the little children) probably thought that the risk was worth it just as did the people who died in this incident and thought they’d be safe.
I get it: the basis for taking the risk is what irks you, not the fact that a risk was taken. Frivolous and wasteful in this case, and so foolish of them to do it, right?”
Um. I was responding to this claim:
(bah)
—
Anyway. I had thought that if anyone here should appreciate what I quoted @19, it would be you. Clearly, I was mistaken.
(But I do learn, especially about how I keep overestimating your acumen)
[argh]
Well, one more mass grave there, now. Cheer up!
PPS
That the CEO of that company bloody fucking obviously thought it was safe, being there and all, clearly does not affect your perception about the rich company deliberately trapped the third class passengers (!!!!) is … um quite remarkable, StevoR.
But I shan’t call you a moron, since I don’t think you are.
(OTOH, I would not be surprised if an actual moron came to the same conclusion as you have)
weylguy@6–
I read an engineer saying that the carbon fiber was one of his concerns about the design. Very stiff, very good strength-weight ratio, high tensile strength, and low thermal expansion — all good for the purpose of deep diving, but on the other hand very susceptible to defects — not so good for purpose. Of course, all engineering involves trade-offs.
Irritated at stupidity, I am.
Tell me more about how were fleeing for their lives from persecution, torture, genocide, and horrors that nearly all of us can barely begin to imagine is not wanting a better life, StevoR.
Go on. You made the claim that the two are incompatible, and indeed contradictory.
Care to try to sustain that claim?
C’ mon, StevoR.
Luxury ocean liner. Many poor people died.
But rejoice! Also many rich people died, what with the luxury liner and that.
(Yes, still irritated at this wanking on about the idle rich)
[sometimes, I do elaborate beyond necessity — though, clearly, my standard for necessity has hitherto been insufficiently accurate]
“Reflecting the White Star Line’s reputation for superior comfort and luxury, the RMS Titanic had extensive facilities for first-class passengers which were widely regarded as the finest of her time. In contrast to her French and German competitors, whose interiors were extravagantly decorated and heavily adorned, the Titanic emphasized comfort and subdued elegance more in the style of a British country manor or luxury hotel.[1] Titanic’s enormous size enabled her to feature unusually large rooms, all equipped with the latest technologies for comfort, hygiene, and convenience. Staterooms and public spaces recreated historic styles with a painstaking attention to detail and accuracy. There was a wide range of recreational and sporting facilities in addition which provided ample opportunity for amusement during a voyage.”
Oh! Those poor people!
Quite the difference, unfortunate that “They took a risk, bigger than the risk they knew they were taking”.
But they were poor people, so that’s OK. Right, StevoR?
@ Morales
Dude, you’re having a public meltdown – maybe go have a little lie down.
No such claim was made. The implicit claim was that you made a gross understatement.
A well-to-do person can want a better life.
It is hardly a controversial or new claim that the Titanic carried poor people in steerage.
Also, you’re missing StevoR’s point that if (say) one has a 90% chance of dying staying at home, and a 50% chance of dying fleeing across the ocean, then that is not necessarily a case of underestimating risk is it? It’s a case of accepting the risk because of having no alternative. That’s hardly comparable to the “billionaires visiting the Titanic” scenario where they clearly underestimated the risk, and had no need to take on any risk at all.
C’mon Juan Ramón, you’re better than this. You usually try to at least put up a semblance of a rational argument.
Your bluster in this thread isn’t even trying.
Apparently, famed marine engineer and submersible designer designer Graham Hawkes didn’t have a problem using carbon fiber for a submarine back in 2000. Alas, the owner of the sub died in a plane crash before it could be tested.
https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-submersibles-under-pressure-in-deep-deep-waters
I also wasn’t clear about tested, perhaps inadequately tested would’ve been proper language. Every submariner that I know speaks of descent to test depth as a slow, incremental process and once at test depth, the sub remains there stationary for a set period to ensure stability and no failures occur or appear immanent. Compared to OceanGate’s method, “If the viewport is going to fail, it’ll display optical distortion first”, which is bullshit. It may distort, but after a few dives, especially beyond its specified pressures, fatigue cracks can form that are optically not visible, but will at stage II will progress rapidly. At extreme pressure that can only be described as obscene.
If outer space is an environment that’s hostile, deep oceanic dives are in an environment that’s outright hateful and hunting for ways to destroy low pressure invaders. Where a pinhole allowing water in would generate a jet capable of cutting steel like a hot knife through butter. Pressures that challenge our understanding of organic chemistry and noble gases change the behavior of bilipid membranes in ways still poorly understood.
And Rush’s team’s notion of ensuring hull integrity was listening to the hull electronically for popping sounds to predict a possible failure and everyone else using that same carbon fiber technology would be using ultrasound and especially x-ray analysis.
Cutting corners and seeking budget kind ways of doing things in that hostile environment, well it’d be safer to try streaking along the length of the exterior of the International Space Station. Well, save that you’d live longer naked outside of the ISS.
TalkativeBub, you have reverted to type, except for the accusation of trolling by me.
Meltdown, eh? Look at me, a mere puddle. A molten mass!
He supposedly “Fixed it for you”, ‘you’ meaning me.
If he fixed it, then it was had to be wrong, since you can’t fix what is right.
So he thinks it’s wrong to claim they wanted a better life.
That a well-to-do person can want a better life does not mean that they themselves (obviously, by your standards, not well-to-do) cannot.
(In short, if I’m wrong, then it follows that they indeed did not want a better life)
No. What’s fucking “controversial” is that the wreck can be characterised as “a mass grave where many poor people drowned”, as if it not were the wreck of a fucking luxury liner where many non-poor people also died. Of course peons and labourers were there.
I fucking well quoted what I responded to, and I used the fucking damn same terminology: “They took a risk, bigger than the risk they knew they were taking”.
I pointed out that this also applies to the unfortunate migrants.
His (to you) intended point (to be generous) entirely misses that.
Fuck. Do you even read what I’ve written? Have you any capacity to follow a thread?
Read my #19 and try to still imagine I’m missing some point, instead of showing it for what it is.
FFS; me @19: “I get it: the basis for taking the risk is what irks you, not the fact that a risk was taken. Frivolous and wasteful in this case, and so foolish of them to do it, right?”
(How it must be to be so far behind the curve is not something I have experienced, but for that I’m glad)
Well, at least you live up to your standards, unlike (in your estimation) me.
Irrational I am, to such as you.
Bluster, eh? Quote some of it, perhaps?
Jubal:
FFS.
“The Titan made its first dive to the Titanic in July 2021, and made a total of six dives to the wreck in 2021 and seven in 2022. Each dive typically had a pilot, three paying passengers, and a guide on board.”
(Wikipedia)
By the gods I hate you so much. Is John ever going to get banned for blatant trolling?
[Heh. ChatBob finds me to be not trying, but you find me to be trying, Gerrard.]
Nah, trust me mate. Everyone finds reading your comments a trial.
Oh, my darling bob!
Let me in on a secret — I was being droll by employing semantic shift.
(Hint: look up the adjectival form)
I hate it when I fuck up my own snark.
:-(
That was a typo, I meant:
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trying
I am very amused though this clown is reduced to calling me his darling.
X-D
(O how the mighty have fallen)
Anyway.
I cannot but grant that the post title (“Unfortunately, my expectation has been confirmed”) is entirely warranted.
So, to the degree that people here expressed satisfaction or more at that outcome, they can be satisfied. Dead, they are. Two of them were indeed billionaires.
Me, I found that kinda distasteful. I said so.
Especially since wealth and wealth alone was the sole discriminant for that satisfaction. Discussion about that was fine.
But. May I say, back in the day, I would not have been pretty much the only one to express distaste at that attitude. This is not a good thing, in my estimation.
Not just in this particular thread, which I will henceforth vacate, because strangely, I feel kinda annoyed now. Fucking satisfaction at the death of people who one knows fuck-all about, other than they were in a sub and it cost $$$ to be there.
A bit meta, now. But, as I wrote, I am annoyed.
I personally don’t give a shit for myself — as I have noted, it’s not a button I have that can be pushed — but this topic has elicited some rather nasty sentiments and even death wishes. Not the best vibe.
I think at least one commenter (a worthy one — tuatara) found this shit toxic enough to leave, though I have a forlorn hope that I may be wrong about that. But it’s not the sort of thing that makes for an inviting environment for any newcomer.
—
So, to wrap it up, I hope PZ either is or becomes aware of what has gone on in these submersible comment threads. I have good reason to trust him.
(And no, no insinuation there. We have never interacted outside this blog’s comments)
Dude, you’re like one step away from being as pathetic as your passive aggressive weeaboo buddy “Chiagu” who thinks “Have a nice day” or “Bless your heart” is a stinging retort.
Have some fucking self respect and don’t pussyfoot around what you want to say dropping sarcastic hints. Grow a pair and fucking say it.
@41. & various John Morales :
With accurate langauge that doesn’t minimise the real human suffering of refugeees.
Oh & did you really not know about the passengers in third class aboard the Titanic and what happened to them? Thought that was very common knowledge even just from the movie.
Satisfaction? Not from me. If you remember I was one of those pointing out that these people are also human beings and individuals befoe and see my #38 here. Pointing out the disparity in coverage and empathy given tto refugees losta t sea vs these billionaires is NOT the same thing as saying as I was satisfied by their deaths or wished for them to die. I do wish there weren’t billioaniaires and the Ocean gate company had followed safety regs and not been the reckless fools they were.
“Chiagu”
No. chigau, lowercase.
—
I invoke PZ for the second time, this personal stuff is also toxic.
[sigh]
Relax, StevoR. I know you mean well, you are not one of the gloaters.
Most everybody has a death that is much, much worse than that for those in the submarine collapse.
The real tragedies, such as the 500 refugees going down off the coast of Greece are too commonplace to get much attention.
Any communication between the Titan and their support ship MV Polar Prince was conducted by acoustic communication devices. Specifically the Titan used a version that allowed the exchange of text messages. Submarines and many ships are equipped with such equipment that allows voice communication. When the US nuclear submarine USS Thresher was lost in 1963 it was in audio communication with the submarine rescue ship USS Skylark. Urban legend has it that the last message from the sub was a request to tell the “boys at General Dynamics that they f***ed up.”
Slightly off topic but why does anyone still bother reading anything John Morales writes?
Matt G (#8) –
There’s no point trying to recover the bodies, even if they were identifiable (which they wouldn’t be).
Remember Korean Air Flight 007, shot down by the USSR in September 1983? Crabs and other ocean bottom scavengers had eaten any remains that were left by the time the wreckage was found two weeks after.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
timgueguenm @ 66, apparently, Rush didn’t like having his dives interrupted by Gertrude check in calls. So, he went with the sonar based text message device.
Thresher, when it was going down, was having difficulty communicating by Gertrude. Toward the end, most of what was received was garbled and only fragments intelligible.
But, what was definitely received was a positive up angle on the bow and still descending and one minute before a transient consistent with a submarine implosion “passing test depth” was received amidst a garbled transmission.
And somehow, the Navy figured out that brazed connections were a leak source…
And due to Thresher and Scorpion’s losses, the Navy went with Rickover’s SUBSAFE program and we’ve not lost another sub. A program that Rush found to be too oppressive. I wonder if he finds that deep oppressive?
Oh wait, he can’t even find his own internal organs now.
In conclusion, they fucked around, overstayed their welcome and finally found out why safety standards are so oppressive: they are written in blood, every single one of them. There is a saying in my country that goes “I krčag ide na vodu dok se ne razbije”* that is oddly fitting here.
*”And the jug always goes to the well and carries water until it breaks.” Only you can always buy another jug and it is recognized that a jug is a tool that does its function and that it WILL break one day and you should plan for that. Or that if for some reason you are very fond of that specific jug then you will stop using it and use a different one.
Walter
You are correct. I should just greasemonkey something to erase every one of his posts.
Walter Solomon @67: The place wouldn’t be the same without John, and I don’t mean it would be better. A bit of abrasion is good for the soul. And sometimes he’s spot on.
Really Rob? Sometimes some trolling is good for the soul? Fuck you.
I second Gerrard’s motion.
I think Silentbob, Enlightenment Liberal, and Walter Solomon make a cute threesome.
OK, I’ll replace your toilet paper with emory cloth.
Emery cloth, that is…