I got email this morning…and so did every member of the science & math division at the University of Minnesota, Morris. This happens every once in a while, since our official email addresses are all publicly accessible, and anyone can grab them and spam the heck out of us all. What was unusual is that this email was directly addressed to me, personally, and the sender decided that he needed to put me in my place and flaunt his erudition to every one of my colleagues.
I am unperturbed by his effort, because in every case, without exception, the loon just ends up exposing his inanity. I mean, you’ve got to realize that trying to harass an entire university division is a poor decision in the first place, right? That thinking that most of the faculty are at all interested in your disagreement with me is somewhat delusional? That you’ve immediately put the wrong foot forward by arbitrarily spamming a whole mob of disinterested people with your long-winded and ultimately pathetic excuses?
You should have known that I’d happily post your email to my blog, where people can opt-in and choose to read the whole thing voluntarily. So yes, I include every word of the thing below.
It’s from Ted Steele, who wrote that very silly article, Cause of Cambrian Explosion – Terrestrial or Cosmic?, in which he proposed that squid fell to earth in comets. I laughed at it in my article, Squids from SPAAAAAAAAACE!, and what has irritated him is that my criticisms were picked up by that prestigious newspaper, The Sun, in an article titled ARE YOU SQUIDDING? Are octopuses aliens? Bizarre new theory suggests the sea creatures’ eggs arrived on earth on a comet from outer space. So the real concern is that a bunch of working class blokes are going to be reading their paper down at the pub, looking for topless pics and anti-immigrant rants, and they’re going to stumble across this weird American egghead who thinks Ted Steele is full of crap.
I think he should be more concerned that The Sun finds his work amusing than that I think it’s garbage. But read on. He’s indignant.
Dear Dr Myers:
I am molecular immunologist and evolutionist of 50 years standing working on RNA and DNA editing processes couple to reverse transcription (RT) in the somatic hypermutation process and the germline evolution of antibody variable genes. I joined with Chandra Wickramasinghe and colleagues 2 years ago as there is too much evidence now to ignore that mature life forms have been impacting and seeding the Earth starting from about 4.1 billion years ago.
I am writing concerning your very public emotional reaction to our paper https://doi.org/10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2018.03.004
You have just been quoted in The Sun (UK) 18 May 2018 as saying: “…. biologist P.Z. Myers ( University Minnesota , Morris) , who debunked the paper as “garbage,” and urged that the “novelties” in cephalopod evolution don’t point to octopuses having originally come from another planet.”
By Saqib Shah 18th May 2018, 10:01 amUpdated: 18th May 2018, 1:11 pm The Sun (UK)ARE YOU SQUIDDING? Are octopuses aliens? Bizarre new theory suggests the sea creatures’ eggs arrived on earth on a comet from outer space https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/6316662/octopus-aliens-scientific-theory/—
OK you have strong feelings here. No doubt the tabloid newspaper knew that, and that is why they contacted you – you make great copy for tabloids.
Whoa there, Dr Steele. That isn’t true. They give all of one sentence to mentioning me — I’m nothing but the briefest of nods towards researching any voice of dissent to your paper. They give two paragraphs to Karin Moelling, who points out that there is no evidence for your conclusion. We’re kind of tacked on to the end as the ignorable voices of reason, while 16 paragraphs and the title are all about your work. It’s quite clear that what makes “great copy for tabloids” is your loony ‘theory’.
Let me Dot–Point some key responses and share it all with your colleagues at University of Minnesota at Morris:
Do you really think they care? All this means is that I’m going to have to get on the university listserv and apologize for the kook who followed me home.
• List the “garbage” you say is in our paper. We are not garden variety Creationists nor Religious Cranks as you often put it – if you think that, you have made a huge mistake and have engaged the wrong guys here.
I never accused any of these guys of religious motivations — they are devotees of an entirely secular brand of nonsense. It’s also quite a long paper, a regular Gish Gallop of a paper, so no, I’m not going to dissect it line by line. It simply isn’t worth it. But one example of the kind of garbage ‘evidence’ they present is how they claim that diatoms are examples of organisms that fall to Earth from outer space, citing work by Wickramasinghe and Wallis, published in the Journal of Cosmology. They say they’ve identified diatoms in a meteorite. Unfortunately for them, it was then found to be a specific Earthly species of diatom, suggesting that all they’re looking at contamination.
As for the Journal of Cosmology…I like to point out what they’ve published before. They are not a credible source.
• List also how the novelties in cephalopod evolution can be explained by current extant phylogenetic or other data.
We know that many of the novelties in cephalopod morphology arise as the product of genes shared with other molluscs…and with arthropods and vertebrates. In fact, core genes for metabolism, for instance, are shared with earthly bacteria. The cephalopod genome has been sequenced, and what leaps out at us is that it is an animal from planet Earth, sharing gene sequences with other organisms on this planet, and is linked to us by common descent. That is the hard fact that your panspermia theory pointedly ignores, that your squid from space somehow arrived here already carrying genes for protocadherins and zinc finger genes and Hox genes that were already universal among the animals on this planet.
• Clearly you have not read and understood our paper, otherwise you would never have deported yourself in public with such unscientific unbecoming statements.
I read your paper. I’ve also read extensively in the relevant scientific literature. You apparently have not, or you wouldn’t have made the absurdly comical claims in your paper. How did it get published, by the way? I can’t imagine how it could have made it through peer review. I see that Denis Noble, another antique anti-evolution crackpot, is one of the editors, so I suspect it got a little biased boost.
• Panspermia crowds out all Abiogenesis thinking and makes it quite unnecessary for understanding the Origins and further Evolution of Life on Earth. Such a perspective makes rapid adaptive Lamarckian mechanisms essential in Cosmic Biology – a living system travelling though space in a protective nurturing matrix (comet) will need to adapt quickly or die in its new cosmic niche after landing – a Darwinian necessity. This is the main reason I joined with Chandra Wickramasinghe in late 2015 – early 2016.
It would also make it unnecessary to consider the chemical origins of life on Earth if I claimed a space wizard poofed it into existence with his magic wand. That doesn’t make it true. Your logic is rather dubious here.
Also…comets are protective and nurturing? What universe are you from?
• In our view “Extraordinary evidence requires a complete rethink and then requires an extraordinary explanation” – this reverses the oft used skeptical mantra ” Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. It needs reversal here because the extraordinary evidence now exists.
Except that you didn’t provide any evidence in your paper. Waving your hands vigorously and citing the same fringe pseudoscientists over and over again is not evidence.
• All current facts in biology are interpreted within the frame of the “Terrestrial neo-Darwinian Paradigm”. We ask, among other questions, how many unusual facts can this theory accommodate? We have no doubt there are ongoing evolutionary processes also on Earth involving Darwinian and non-Darwinian mechanisms, as there would be in all other Cosmic habits.
No. They have to be interpreted within the known body of evidence, which points overwhelmingly to common descent and the origin of all known life on earth from a single ancestral source. You have to ignore a heck of a lot of evidence to postulate that squid are not related to jellyfish, fruit flies, and mice.
• Here are just two examples from our paper, which are paradigm shifting (that is, pure nonsense under the dominant terrestrial neo-Darwinian paradigm):
Finally, you get it right. Your claims are pure nonsense.
1. The Murchison meteorite (landed in Murchison, Victoria in 1969 and was immediately recovered, and curated in the city museum in Melbourne). It has eukaryotic fossils, at > 4.5 billion years old – older than the Solar System. EM Scans of internal sliced structures independently assessed by highly reputable workers show distinct biological cells and microfossils (some look like fruiting bodies typical of slime molds). Give me an explanation that avoids Panspermia for that finding. There are other carbonaceous meteorites with microfossils examined the same way. Contamination has been ruled out (Pflug and Heinz 1997, Hoover 2005, 2011, Miyake et al 2010). Thus eukayotic life is external to the Earth and at least >4.5 Billion years old.
No, billion year old life was not found in the Murchison meteorite. The kinds of evidence the panspermia guys cite is always embarassing: they throw bits of meteor in an EM and look for blobs that look to their untrained eyes like bacteria and algae and fungi. It’s pure undiluted pareidolia, and is totally unconvincing. You know, NASA has found bacteria on the Murchison meteorite, which is a totally mundane and even expected result…but it’s all contemporary organisms, which can be identified right down to the species level, and is the result of contamination.
2. The infra red extinction spectrum for interstellar cosmic dust in our Milky Way galaxy has the same signature as freeze dried E. coli (a common complex living cell). All our knowledge of the Universe, delivered by the scientific discipline of “Astronomy” has been built this way – get the spectrum (emission, absorption) in the laboratory on Earth- then focus the telescope on a cosmic source/object and ask – What is the spectrum or signature? Does it match that found in the Earth-based laboratory? All our chemical and physical knowledge of the Sun, other planets, comets, other stars etc. has been built up this way. Newton built his grand synthesis that way. As did Galileo and Kepler. Hoyle and Wickramasignhe predicted the match before they secured the astronomical observations (with Chandra’s brother Dayal Wickramasinghe and DA Allen at the ANU in Canberra):
The same match is seen in cometary ejecta tails (Halleys). We cover all this in the review (see Fig 1 and associated text, Hoyle et al 1982, 1984, Wickramsinghe DT and Allen 1986). Again, provide a better explanation that avoids Panspermia, that is , better than that published by Hoyle, Wickramasinghe et al. In 40 years no astronomer or physicist has provided a better explanation, but many astronomers have observed the match. It is an exact match – you cannot get better than that in Science.
You’ve got it all backwards. Cosmic chemistry is not a product of organic life, organic life is a product of cosmic chemistry. It is not a surprise that life uses elements in similar proportion to their representation on our planet and in our universe.
• In my considered opinion the situation now in Science is reminiscent to the problem Galileo had with the Catholic priests of his time – most refused to look through his telescope to observe the moons of Jupiter. It is the reason why we are entering the 2nd Copernican Revolution, as we outline at the end of our paper ( and discussed also by John Schuster in Appendix C).
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Carl Sagan
• A severe refutation of the present H-W Panspermia theory would be, in our Solar System at least, the following: if the many life forms unequivocally to be found out there (not explained by human space flight contamination) did not share DNA, RNA, protein sequence relationships with extant terrestrial organisms, then that would be a severe blow, but not a complete refutation – but it would be a hole in the side of the ship, that is for sure. The theory would have to be amended to a different theory of multiple life sprouts throughout the Universe (and below) . We have a paper in submission to a peer review journal right now that addresses this very point (Abstract below) :
—–
N. C. Wickramasinghe, Dayal T. Wickramasinghe2 Christopher A. Tout, , John C. Lattanzio and Edward J. Steele(2018) Cosmic Biology in Perspective
Abstract
A series of astronomical observations obtained over the period 1986 to 2018 supports the idea that life is a cosmic rather than a purely terrestrial or planetary phenomenon. These include (1) the detection of biologically relevant molecules in interstellar clouds and in comets, (2) mid-infrared spectra of inter- stellar grains and the dust from comets, (3) a diverse set of data from comets including the Rosetta mission showing consistency with biology and (4) the frequency of Earth-like or habitable planets in the Galaxy. We argue that the conjunction of all the available data suggests the operation of cometary biology and interstellar panspermia rather than the much weaker hypothesis of comets being only the source of the chemical building blocks of life. We conclude with specific predictions on the properties expected of extra-terrestrial life if it is discovered on Enceladus, Europa or beyond. A radically different biochemistry elsewhere can be considered as a falsification of the theory of interstellar panspermia.
Oh god he just goes on and on, and these people just churn out the crap papers.
But what a twisted rationale! So now they’re arguing that if organisms were found that were not linked to the pattern of common descent of earthly life, if they were found to possess unique, truly alien DNA, that would be a refutation of their claims? You know, this doesn’t work as a test of an alternative hypothesis, because evolutionary theory predicts that all life has a common origin, too. That means their proposed test does not discriminate between the explanations, and is simply lazy science.
• So the Hoyle-Wickramasinghe claims are important to Science – and it has been suppressed and ignored for many years. Since I have great faith that other objective scientists confronted with the same array of data would behave like me and reach the same interpretation, I then tested it as I indicated above. I contacted many colleagues across disciplines around the world to see if they had confronted the data and agreed with the H-W interpretation. As you can see many agree with me – you don’t sign on lightly as a co-author to a peer-review paper in Science, particular in a hot potato area like Panspermia.
But, Ted, publishing garbage like that is what gets you the hot citations in The Sun!
I’m familiar with the evidence; I seem to have read more of it than you have. The array of data says rather plainly to any objective scientist that your interpretation is codswallop.
• But then it became imperative to communicate the H-W data across all disciplines and all fields of Science. Particularly biomedical science, where there has been little of no exposure to the work and findings of Hoyle-Wickramasinghe et al. So as I have explained it was decided to write the paper in plain English style, quite different from normal garden variety science reviews. As I said, our canvas is now the Universe, both Physical and Biological, therefore we had no other choice but to write it this way.
Oh, it is imperative, and your “canvas is now the Universe”. I always thought that the panspermia gang was rather grandiose, with it’s obsession with the Hoyle-Wickramasinghe cult of personality and always the same tiny clique of fanatics circle-jerking away. It’s all amazingly self-referential. You vomit up great clouds of papers, all citing each other, all self-affirming, all building a fantasy archipelago where you are the kings of reason, rather than the clown college of kooks that everyone else sees you as.
But I’ll let you indict yourselves. Your concluding paragraph is a real stunner.
• Finally with the Octopus let me paint a possible scenario for you ( Steele and Wickramasinghe 2018 unpublished scenario) :“About 275 million years ago, a good 250 million years after the Cambrian ( when the supposed precursor of Octopus appeared, the Nautus spp) the Moons of Saturn (Enceladus) and Jupiter (Europa) with their ice covered oceans are teeming with life particularly Cephalopods, Octopus and relatives. A huge comet or meteor impact blasts vast quantities of water bourne material into space which is snap frozen. These cosmic sized (huge) “Space Icebergs” bearing their millions of cryopreserved eggs of many living species (and bacteria and viruses) eventually impact into the oceans of Earth in a relative soft landings, many eggs survive and new living systems, such as Octopus take hold in their new Earthly ocean habitat and flourish in the shallows of the continental shelves (and many other ocean habits as well). This seeding of life leads to rapid adaptive spurts, driven by Lamarckian acquired inheritance mechanisms, and thus an adaptive radiation of new life forms which further evolve on Earth. This story, however farfetched at first reading, fits the available data not just for Octopus, but as Eldridge and Gould have taught us, many other adaptive radiations in the history of life on Earth.”
Wow. A suggestion: good science fiction needs a germ of credible science at its heart. That is a scenario that makes the movie The Core look like a well-researched geology documentary. I think it’s also been done; you might want to watch the movie Sharknado, because it’s about as biologically plausible as your bullshit.
OK, there’s a bit more to his letter — he included a literature cited section to his email. You can ignore it, it’s the same crowd of wankers all over again.
Yours
Ted Steele
…………… Edward J Steele PhD
ASI, AIMS, ASCIA
CYO Foundation, Piara Waters, 6112
Perth, AUSTRALIA
ejsteele@cyo.edu.au
https://independent.academia.edu/EdwardJSteeleReferences & Related Reading cited
Gorczynski, R.M., Steele, E.J., 1980. Inheritance of acquired immunologic tolerance to foreign histocompatibility antigens in mice. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA. 77 , 2871 – 2875.
Gorczynski, R.M.,Steele, E.J., 1981. Simultaneous yet independent inheritance of somatically acquired tolerance to two distinct H-2 antigenic haplotype determinants in mice. Nature 289, 678 – 681. doi: 10.1038/ 289678a0
Hoover, R.B., 2005. Microfossils, biominerals, and chemical biomarkers in meteorites. In Perspectives in Astrobiology Eds Hoover RB, Rozanov AY, Paepe, RR IOS Press Amsterdam, pp 43 – 65.
Hoover, R.B., 2011. Fossils of cyanobacteria in CI1 carbonaceous meteorites: Implications to life on comets, Europa and Enceladus. J. Cosmology 16, 7070 – 7111.
Hoyle, F., et al., 1982. Infrared spectroscopy over the 2.9-3.9mm waveband in biochemistry and astronomy. Astrophys. Space Sci. 83, 405-409.
Hoyle, F., et al., 1984. The spectroscopic identification of interstellar grains. Astrophys. Space Sci. 98, 343e352.
Hoyle, F., Wickramasinghe, N.C., 1978b. Life Cloud. J.M. Dent Ltd, London.
Hoyle, F., Wickramasinghe, N.C., 1979. Diseases from Space. J.M. Dent Ltd, London.
Hoyle, F., Wickramasinghe, N.C., 1981. Evolution from Space. J.M. Dent Ltd, London.
Hoyle, F., Wickramasinghe, C., 1982. Why Neo-Darwinism Does Not Work. University College Cardiff Press. ISBN 0 906449 50 2.
Hoyle, F., Wickramasinghe, N.C., 1985. Living Comets. Univ. College, Cardiff Press, Cardiff.
Lindley, R., 2010. The Soma: How our genes really work and how that changes everything! ISBN1451525648, POD book Amazon.com, CYO Foundation.
Miyake, N., et al. 2010. Identification of micro-biofossils in space dust. J. Cosmology 7, 1743 – 1749
Pflug, H.D., Heinz, B., 1997. Analysis of fossil organic nanostructures: terrestrial and extraterrestrial. SPIE Proceedings on Instruments, Methods, and Missions for the Investigation of Extraterrestrial Microorganisms, 86 (July 11, 1997) , 3111 : doi:10.1117/12.278814
Steele, E.J. Somatic Selection and Adaptive Evolution : On the Inheritance of Acquired Characters. First Edition. Williams-Wallace, Toronto, 1979: Croom-Helm, London, 1980. 2nd Edition. Revised with an author’s Postscript , University of Chicago Press, Chicago, 1981.
Steele, E.J.,2016a. Origin of congenital defects: stable inheritance through the male line via maternal antibodies specific for eye lens antigens inducing autoimmune eye defects in developing rabbits in utero. In Levin M, Adams DS Ahead of the Curve -Hidden breakthroughs in the biosciences Chapter 3. Michael Levin and Dany Spencer Adams IOP Publishing Ltd 2016, Bristol, UK.
Steele, E.J., Gorczynski, R.M., Pollard, J.W. 1984. The somatic selection of acquired characters. In: Evolutionary Theory: Paths into the Future. Ed. J.W. Pollard, John Wiley, London. pp 217-237.
Steele, E.J., Lindley, R.A., Blanden, R.V. 1998. Lamarck’s Signature : How retrogenes are changing Darwin’s natural selection paradigm. Allen & Unwin, Frontiers of Science: Series Editor Paul Davies , Sydney, Australia, 1998.
Steele, E.J., Lloyd, S.S., 2015. Soma-to-germline feedback is implied by the extreme polymorphism at IGHV relative to MHC. BioEssays. 37, 557 – 569.
Wickramasinghe, D.T., Allen, D.A., 1986. Discovery of organic grains in Comet Halley. Nature 323, 44 – 46.
Wickramasinghe, N.C., Steele, E.J., 2016. Dangers of adhering to an obsolete paradigm: Could Zika virus lead to a reversal of human evolution? J. Astrobiol. Outreach. 4:1 http://dx.doi.org/10.4172/2332-2519.1000147
Wickramasinghe, N.C., et al., 2017 Sunspot cycle minima and pandemics: The case for vigilance? ? J. Astrobiol. Outreach. 5:2 http://dx.doi.org/10.4172/2332-2519.1000159
paxoll says
When idiots put their foot in their mouth they don’t stop with just the toes.
rietpluim says
As a teenager I had a job at the mail room of a university, and we stored mail like this into the folly file. Nobody else read it, nobody replied.
tomfrog says
:O
We should probably protect the next rovers we send to Mars by wrapping them inside a giant Iceberg… or something…
Sean Boyd says
I think I’d go with SQUIDNAMI, instead.
cag says
Why is it more probable to some of these kooks that life originated on some rock out in space rather than on our life friendly planet? You know, the planet with water, organic molecules. suitable temperatures and the occasional input of energy from lightning to promote chemical processes.
Kip T.W. says
Too much goony frothing. Not enough SQUIDNADO. After a little while, I was mostly only reading your parts.
Wait, I have a theory: This guy is from outer space, and he’s trying to hide it by throwing shade at cephalopods.
blf says
Heh. Same here. I’m still wiping his spittle off the inside of the screen. Is it possible to catch frothing stooopidity from the USB port, somethings leaking out of there now…
HappyHead says
Um, doesn’t it Panspermia just make Abiogenesis even more complicated? I mean, it has to have happened at some point unless you’re doing the pretend magic wizard poof thing, so saying “IT CAME FROM SPAAAAACE!” just means now you’ve got to not only explain how it happened somewhere else, but also why it didn’t happen here, when we had a perfectly respectable chemical soup around to do the job.
They put their foot in their mouth so hard they’re standing on it again.
blf says
At the pub down the street, the band is currently doing a fairly decent rendition of Hotel California. That song can be interpreted in many different says. The mildly deranged penguin suggests spacequids (squids from space) is one possibility:
On a dark stary night, cool wind in my hair
Warm smell of squids, falling from the air
Overhead in the cosmos, I saw a shimmering light
My head grew heavy and my sight grew dim
I had to stop for the night.
There squid stood in the doorway;
I heard the kraken fell
And I was thinking to myself
‘This could be heaven or this could be Hell’
Then squid lit up the sky and showed me the way
They were splatting down the corridor,
I thought I heard them say
Welcome to the Hotel Calamari
Such a lovely place (such a lovely place)
Such a lovely farce.
Plenty of room at the Hotel Calamari
Any time of year (any time of year) you can find it here
His mind is Infinity-twisted, he’s got the Octopus bends
He’s got a lot of prattling, petty loons, that he calls friends
How they dunce in the corner, silly spittle-flecked
Some dribble to remember, some dribble to forget
…
(With apologies to The Eagles and everyone else with a sense of rhythm, rhyme, and the ridiculous.)
Marcus Ranum says
The reason area bombing is immoral is that it denies you the ability to appreciate the discernment of your enemies.
PZ Myers says
Dang. SQUIDNAMI is much better.
Holms says
And this is considered more likely than earthly evolution??
anbheal says
Lisa: “Where will they live?”
Homer: “In Outer Space.”
Lisa: “What will they breathe?”
Homer: “Air.”
Lisa: “Dad, there’s no air in space.”
Homer: “Oh really, then how come there’s an Air In Space Museum?”
hemidactylus says
I found Lamarck’s Signature interesting but he’s graduating from retrovectors to panspermia? And he misspelled Eldredge’s name. That’s almost as egregious a blunder as someone misspelling yours.
wsierichs says
After making “Squidnado,” Hollywood can make “Squids in Spaccccce” using Muppet squids.
If biological life forms (including squids) came to the Earth in meteorites as some people have argued, why aren’t we finding such life forms in meteorites that have landed (such as ones in Antarctica, where the ice presumably would preserve them, like “The Thing From Outer Space”) in the past or have landed in recent times. We should have multiple examples of alien life.
This is like the religions that claim all kinds of wonderful miracles happened long ago but are no longer happening in modern times for some inexplicable reason. Maybe the existence of modern recording technologies and the availability of scientific evaluation of such claims has shut down the miracle-working machines of religion. It’s hard to claim a god walked on water or parted a great body of water or restored missing limbs, etc., when no one can provide a verifiable video record of said supernatural miracle.
nomdeplume says
Extraordinay claims require extraordinary levels of Dunning-Kruger.
What a Maroon, living up to the 'nym says
If squids came from space, why is there still space?
birgerjohansson says
So basically, Kang and Kodos are real?
Also, see Templesmith’s graphic novel “Wormwood #3: Calamari Rising”. Transdimentional monsters. And Elvis!
hemidactylus says
I don’t discount that perhaps some building blocks for abiogenesis rained from space, but Steele seems to be saying that cephalopods themselves came from within our solar system and integrated themselves into the web of life. And of course Lamarckism adds to the magic. Aren’t squid, octopus and nautiloids mollusks? It’s been raining a lot here and I witnessed a slug crawling on my house. Does Steele account for slugs and oysters?
blf says
A giant explosion / collision blasts undersurface liquid (but not boiling) water into space, where it instantly freezes and magically preserves already-evolved critters (or at least their eggs), reaches escape velocity from the largest gas giants, zooms across the solar system but is not badly affected by radiation, and crashes into Earth, the eggs unfreeze, are viable, and hatch, and the critters survive and multiply. Furthermore, all this happened quite quickly — the earliest known octopus fossil is c.300m years old, essentially the same time-frame as blast-off from a massive outer planet’s moon. So not only did it manage to escape the gravitational pull of a fecking massive planet, it then zipped towards Earth astonishingly quickly for a chance event. In seeming contrast, ALH84001 (as an example) seems to have taken c.15m years to journey from to Earth — from Mars.
The only thing which strikes me as plausible about this is liquid water ejected into space would freeze. Everything else reminds me of Velikovsky (Worlds in Collision).
anchor says
“So now they’re arguing that if organisms were found that were not linked to the pattern of common descent of earthly life, if they were found to possess unique, truly alien DNA, that would be a refutation of their claims?”
They don’t even have a decent understanding of their own claims. It’s gruesome. They’re like headless zombies staggering around in pursuit of a sciencey thingy, all the while sputtering from their gaping necks, “WE GOT IT! WE GOT IT!”
wcaryk says
There should be a Galileo equivalent to Godwin’s Law — the first kook to compare his rejection to the plight of Galileo ipso facto loses.
anchor says
@#11: “Dang. SQUIDNAMI is much better.”
There’s an opportunity for hordes by the zillions surfing in on giant impact waves to carry out their conquest of the land and its critters. Conquest by Qosmic Quench! Bonus opportunity – you can have the headless zombies rushing around sputtering “WE TOLD YOU SO!” before they get, uh, quenched. (That part could be a real crowd-pleaser). The continental landmass heat engines are inundated or ‘swamped’ by all the rocks falling into the oceans from the sky, drastically cooling the planet into global ice-age snowball-mode. The movie ends with this conversion of Earth into a giant Europa, completing the takeover by the Europa Cephalopod Overlords.
nomdeplume says
#22 Nevertheless the octopus moves?
anchor says
Oh…and all cetaceans are enslaved lest they subvert the New Order.
llyris says
Omg Maroon I can’t breathe I’m laughing so hard.
leerudolph says
Really? There’s a lot of kinetic energy in that water, and I’m not at all confident that it wouldn’t fly apart into bits of hot (indeed, boiling hot, given the ambient no-pressure) water and disperse well before it could freeze into ice chunks big enough to survive—with the “eggs” and organisms intact—an eventual descent through Earth’s atmosphere. In fact, I’m not even confident that the ejected water hypothesized to have been thrown by impact out of the gas-giant’s satellite’s ocean would stay liquid (or solid) during its high-velocity ascent through that satellite’s atmosphere!
No doubt Rob Griganis or some other physicist around here could actually figure this sort of thing out with justified confidence. Volunteers?
leerudolph says
To be fair, Hoyle not only promoted panspermia, he also promoted a steady-state universe. Presumably (depending on those pesky details) that could mean that, wherever in the universe life is found, it came from an earlier part of the universe, to which it had come from a yet earlier part … and so on and so forth, world without end, Amen. (The details, I suspect, would be very pesky. But, hey! Abiogenesis can’t explain Bozo the Clown!)
Kip T.W. says
If squids came from space, why is there still space?
+1
No, make that +1!
robro says
Odd coincidence of the day: According to Wikipedia, on this day in 1983 a team led by Luc Montagnier announced the discovery to HIV. I started reading his bio only to learn that he later published a paper that’s very popular with homeopathy defenders. As I’m reading the description of the criticism of the paper who should I run into as a critic but “biology professor PZ Myers” calling it “pathological science.”
hemidactylus says
@30-robro
Was the Montagnier stuff about “water memory”?
chrislawson says
hemidactylus–
I found Lamarck’s Signature a great disappointment. I wanted to like it because Ted Steele had taken on his university’s administration over some matter of ethics (sadly the details were always hazy; I suspect disclosure rules prevented him from being more outspoken) and I’m always interested in seeing interesting unorthodox views. But the book was full of odd thinking and almost unreadable in some passages. I was most annoyed that in a book claiming that Lamarkcian evolution had been observed in his lab, he never once mentioned the Baldwin Effect — where somatic changes due to the environment can mimic Lamarckian effects. It seemed an oversight.
Azkyroth, B*Cos[F(u)]==Y says
*self-consciously zips up* o.o
Azkyroth, B*Cos[F(u)]==Y says
PANspermia is a misnomer.
They’re actually promoting under-stove-drawer-spermia.
Azkyroth, B*Cos[F(u)]==Y says
…dude, have you met Abi?!
blf says
leerudolph@27, All I@20 said was “liquid water ejected into space”. I did not say that would happen, and indeed pointed out the boiling (kinetic energy) problem (albeit I was thinking more of the impact than the ascent (good point, thanks for the correction — albeit are the atmospheres of the two suggested moons significant enough?†)). It is true I forgot the vacuum of space would probably also boil / disperse the water, another good point, and thanks for that correction. But please don’t assign to me, even if only implicitly, ludicrous claims I did not say or was clearly — and especially explicitly — mocking. (Apologies if I sound cranky, I thinks I needs my morning’s coffee…)
† For instance, the Galileo probe is apparently now thought to have flown through a water plume in 1997, Moon of Jupiter prime candidate for alien life after water blast found:
robro says
hemidactylus @#31 — Something like that I believe.
hemidactylus says
@37- robro
Though she backpedaled it as a joke I chuckle at what Rebecca Watson had to say about homeopathy (her caps lock in original):
“This is based on the idea that water has a memory, so if you piss in the ocean, the ocean WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER AND NEVER FORGIVE.”
http://skepchick.org/2016/11/new-ftc-warning-labels-homeopathy-doesnt-work/
Her recent post on bullshit may be applicable.
Pierce R. Butler says
…I am molecular immunologist and evolutionist … you would never have deported yourself in public with such unscientific unbecoming statements. … the Hoyle-Wickramasinghe claims are important to Science – and it has been suppressed and ignored … et ceteratatata…
Did the Oztralian declaration of independence include eliminating all teachers of English grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and all that bourgeois folderol? Or does Steele have a separate project underway to revolutionize Writing as well as Science?
Crudely Wrott says
What is lacking here, and apologies to those who have hinted at this above, is a well defined and credible explanation of just exactly how cephalopds on a moon of any outer solar system moon could survive both the impact of a rogue asteroid or comet and their equally violent arrival on earth. The hypothesis that cephalopds were even there at all is equally unsupported. Also conspicuously absent is any consideration of how much time passed between the two impacts. Straight line travel of solid bodies within the solar system is not something that has ever been demonstrated. Newton’s laws suggest that it never will be.
While I am certainly unqualified to argue convincingly against the idea of panspermia I am qualified to argue against the sudden, violent abduction of water dwelling life forms from one small rock, their transport through space where water stops being liquid very quickly and their equally violent deposit on another rock.
The fact that no mechanism is quantified or even alluded to outside of the suggestion that is was only eggs or some such irrelevant evasion is evidence enough that this whole idea is no more than a fever dream.
That it might be marginally profitable to publish and use as as the basis of a lecture tour also does not escape notice. My advice is to learn a trade and get calluses. At least that would be earning something honestly and having something lasting to show for one’s efforts. This mashup of fragile notions of special creation and dimly recalled science fiction read as a child will never be of use to anyone.
Total waste of time and wind.
madtom1999 says
@40 Panspermia seems like a possibility until you try and actually get life off somewhere that it might originate into space in one piece. Its quite difficult – the best I have managed is imagining a meteorite strike on Mars. In order for it to launch life to escape velocity would require an acceleration of 60,000G over 100m. ie the impact would have to hit something that would then force an upward movement over 100m with such force that most cells would be destroyed, and thats before it gets heated in the atmosphere on the way out let alone survive in space and then land here. At best it would require something like the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off under a 10 tonne rock that miraculously had a bit of life that contained all the DNA necessary to get started in whatever conditions it found on earth.
The chances really are astronomical.
Sean Boyd says
Well, if the whole panspermia deal is so ridiculous, why is the next release of Ubuntu codenamed “Cosmic Cuttlefish”?
Checkmate, biologists!
DanDare says
So has Trump tapped them on the shoulder to head up a biology regulatory body yet. We could have a new Lysenko.