I’ve been experimenting with making YouTube videos (I’ll put up another one this weekend!), in part because it’s a fun challenge, but also because I’m constantly horrified by how atheism is represented in that medium. I expect creationists to be nattering dinglebats, but when atheists come along and be raging assholes, it’s always disappointing. In the last few days, an unpleasant example has shown up in the comments to this video.
SwolllenGoat: why do you disable ratings like some creotard?
I ignored him for a bit — that “tard” construction is a pretty good indicator that he wasn’t worth engaging — but I’ll tell you why.
Ratings systems are evil. Old timers may recall I mentioned them as an option on blog comments some time back, and most of you were horrified at the idea. All it does is foster tribalism, and then the stupid little stars become a tool for factions to anonymously snipe at one another.
I’ve seen it on YouTube. The ratings on YouTube videos are often useless — they’re only used for virtue signaling by one group or another. When we did some FtB videos a while back, it was obvious, since we’d have these hour-long videos, and within minutes of putting them up, the anti-SJW kiddie campers were clicking madly to downrate them. So I don’t use them.
I didn’t feel like explaining that to this guy, so I gave him a short answer.
PZ Myers: Because of people like you.
You know he wasn’t going to be satisfied.
SwolllenGoat: what kind of person am i?
I ignored him.
I did look at his YouTube page, though, and the “related channels” for this guy include Atheism-Is-Unstoppable:
Devon Tracey, or Atheism-is-Unstoppable (channel name) is a moderately popular YouTube atheist. Most of his content consists of Anti-SJW/Regressive screeds common amongst YouTube atheists. Occasionally this manifests itself in extreme rhetoric, which can sometimes be argued to be mildly racist, and is occasionally too much even for TheAmazingAtheist. He is also notorious for blocking people who disagree with him and for doxxing a couple of those he didn’t like. Due to these antics, many YouTube atheists, even those who share his general views, have denounced him.
And Bearing:
Bearing, or Patrick Connolly, is an Australian anti-feminist who, after failing as a musician, actually thought it would be a good idea to quit his dayjob as a real estate agent in order to focus on his next scam on how to get money without working: a shit YouTube ‘career’. Which basically, in traditional Aussie fashion, consists of nothing more than calling people cunts while producing the anti-sjw community’s equivalent of low-effort clickbait.
Hard pass. Case in point why YouTube atheists have such a shitty reputation.
But he was persistent.
SwolllenGoat: C’mon PZ
What ‘kind of person am I?
Why so butthurt when I pointed out you’ve disabled ratings just like one of those sad creationist dipshits?
Maybe you should block me next?
Shut down the comments entirely?
You know whats funny?
Answers in Fucking Genesis does not disable ratings,and they are flat out retarded
YOU do disable em
How things change…………….
That a clear demonstration of exactly the kind of person I want to just fuck off. So I thanked him for being so obvious.
PZ Myers: Thank you for answering your own question so effectively.
Now the fun begins. He starts raging at me. Note: he posted this while thinking I had blocked him. I don’t quite understand why he’d bother if he thought he was blocked, or how he reconciled the fact that all of his comments appeared on the video with his martyr complex, but he did go scurrying off to use an alternative login to get past his imaginary ban.
SwolllenGoat’s AudioBook Archive: Bwaaaahaaaaahaaaa
You sad little man
You blocked me for daring to ask a question
C’mon PZ
Tell us
What ‘kind of person am I?
Why so butthurt when I pointed out you’ve disabled ratings just like one of those sad creationist dipshits?
Maybe you should shut down the comments entirely?
You know whats funny?
Answers in Fucking Genesis does not disable ratings,and they are flat out retarded
YOU do disable em
How things change…………….
He typed it twice in two accounts, to be sure!
SwolllenGoat: Im sure that made some sort of sense to you,inside yer head,before you typed it
Rest assured it makes no actual sense,eh?
So,come on,what kind of person am I?
The question asking kind?
The atheist kind?
The liberal kind?
You have ratings disabled like some garden variety creotard because of atheist liberals who ask questions?
I remember the good old days of YT…………back when we atheist types would mock creotards because they disabled ratings and closed comments sections,or blocked users and whatnot
LOOK at yourself PZ
You are them
How sad
I don’t know. I might end up disabling comments if this is the kind of irrational atheist dork who’s going to show up and posture like an ass. I’ll keep ’em open for at least the next few videos, though.
It’s unfortunate that these gomers are unable to LOOK at themselves.
It’s been a long day. I think I’ll go see a star war again tonight — I hear it improves on second viewing.
I had the impression from comments here that YT comments were frequently on that order. Wonder if he’ll show up here. In any case, being an atheist doesn’t necessarily include being a decent human being, that’s for sure.
@namespace url(http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml);
@-moz-document domain(“youtube.com”) {
.comment-section-renderer {
visibility:hidden !important;
}
}
…and YouTube comments disappear into the æther, lions lay down with lambs, dogs and cats band together in socialist communes, and peace descends upon the Earth. Amen.
What is obvious to me, is that your troll is too egotistical, like our present POTUS, to even consider the concept that they are wrong, much less acknowledge the fact if the facts don’t agree with them. What they really miss, is that they are using Creobot/Godbot logic that they are right until shown to be wrong (which can’t happen due to presupposition) rather than understanding they need to present third party evidence to demonstrate they are right. When in doubt, check the facts, not your opinion of the facts if you have honesty and integrity. Which your troll lacks.
I have seen this often in discussion with the anti-vax crowd. Since they cannot support their views with actual evidence (usually just some unverified anecdotes), they resort to insults.
They do not like it when I ask them why they think insults are a valid form of evidence.
By the way, for those of us who have loved ones with disabilities the use of any form of the word “retard’ is offensive. Anyone who thinks their special cute form is acceptable should be vehemently rebuked and then ignored (much like how PZ handled the fool).
Pathetic.
I’d ask if he had anything better to do with his time, anything at all, but he answered that question, too. A decade ago I might’ve tried to reason with or help him, but these days I’m perfectly content to let people like that wallow in their own self-inflicted misery. It isn’t worth my time to try to redeem everyone.
It’s a YouTube comment section. It doesn’t matter what the content is, it’s going to end up a punchbowl full of turds. Squash this one, and a dozen more will follow behind him.
YouTube comments can be very bad.
I defended you on the video comments as SporkShirts.
My first comment disappeared into the ether. What a pity.
I am familiar with folks like Mr. S. Goat through dealing with the anti-vax crowd. A group that has plagued those familiar with the disability community, especially autism. Because this particular group cannot up come up with actual evidence, they resorts to insults. Many of them contain variations of the word that put my comment into perpetual moderation, similar to the type used by Mr. Goat. This is not acceptable to those in our community (just go to LeftBrainRightBrain to see how Matt Carey feels about those who denigrate the autists).
These folks cannot come with an answer when I ask them why they think insults are a valid substitute for veritable evidence. In fact it makes much more like Mr. Goat, sometimes even worse.
This is why they need to be ignored, because they are simply trolls. Just like PZ did to Mr. Goat.
People — I wasn’t suggesting that you run over there and defend me. That guy isn’t worth anyone’s time.
I hope I did not suggest that! That is the opposite of ignoring.
Trolls thrive on attention, that is the last thing you should give them.
That’s the way to handle the assholes: ignore them.
Very simple solution, very gratifying results: they evaporate over time.
I knew you’d get them. You did too. the idiots are inevitable.
We all know here as well as you…and your vids are perfectly peachy. I know. I saw.
A more complicated way to deal with assholes is to knee them in the groin and steal their wallet.
Ok wait…back up the truck. You did an educational video about esoteric tardigrade evo-devo and you drew such negativity into your orbit?
hemidactylus, as per the OP, the ostensible reason was the non-enabling of ratings.
The video’s content was not a factor.
Of course, the real reason was probably just because of PZ’s rep as a SJW. At troll like that was going to figure out something to whine about.
@14- John Morales-
I was highlighting the irony. As PZ said above: “When we did some FtB videos a while back, it was obvious, since we’d have these hour-long videos, and within minutes of putting them up, the anti-SJW kiddie campers were clicking madly to downrate them. So I don’t use them.”
And this appears some anti-SJW detractor latched on to an informative video to target Meirz. As PZ typed: “I did look at his YouTube page, though, and the “related channels” for this guy include Atheism-Is-Unstoppable:…”
So the content is relevant in highlighting the irony that PZ is trying to add signal to noise and gets this flak. YMMV.
@chigau #12:
I agree, but how can we do that to this goat through the comment section?
Translation:
PAYZ ATTENTION TO MEZZZ. YOU MUST PAYZ ATTENTION TO MEEZZ, OR I WILL GETS ANGRYS.
#14
And the reason it brought the ants out in the first place was also content independant: PZ Myers made it.
I wish you guys would define your acronyms. (OP (Original Poster)) I think that was what OP meant. Old naive people like me really don’t know them. When I first encountered it SJW (Social Justice Warrior) was a mystery. Besides that you’ve got to watch your step. OP has more than one definition!
jack16
jack16 @ #20 — It would defeat the purpose of using them to define them. Generally, you can google to find definitions for unfamiliar initialisms and acronyms. The Urban Dictionary is a pretty good source. Sometimes you have to deduce the most likely meaning if there are several. Most of the usage is fairly standard here.
PZ
I was very interested in your comment on ratings systems.
The stars and comments by purchasers when I’m buying or assessing are worth attention but with a grain of salt.
jack16
Yeah, but they’re easily weaponized. Yelp, for instance, is frequently abused to harass places (maybe justifiably, but still…), since you can give a restaurant a bad review even if you’ve never eaten there. Amazon ratings are terribly unreliable for any slightly contentious issue.
Of course, most everyone is familiar with the comic by now, but this was an exceedingly poignant illustration of it.
http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png
#21 Robro
There is also an exclusionary factor which I’m sure you don’t intend. (Only we know what it means.) If the purpose of the acronym is to create a mood or effect you could put the definition at the bottom for us ignoramuses.
jack16
Still, they’re just another source of useless information, like the pointless polls which used to be pharyngulated™ every now and then. I’m definitely okay with disabling them, since that’s an option, but simply ignoring them as irrelevant would be appropriate too.
There’s the kind of jackass who writes comments like the ones you quoted, and there’s the kind who puts too much credence in ratings and such. But there’s probably a lot of overlap…. Any reasonable person would not think they’re an indicator of the truth or reliable evidence of anything very interesting, and of course creationists and the like can take advantage of it due to their greater numbers. But they’ll do that either way; they’ll still play their bullshit game using their bullshitty methods, since that’s basically all they’ve got, whether or not you do.
I understand ” sea lioning” as a specific form of trolling.
I just don’t get the choice of those words.
Is it about “see”, lying”, “sealing (off)”, “unseelie” (fay) ? ?
birgerjohansson @27: Dunno, but it aways makes me think of this song, aka Sea Lion Woman.
@27
The term comes from the comic. I don’t know why the artist picked a sea lion, or if they had any reason at all besides the absurdity of a talking sea lion following these two around to annoy them, adding humor.
Youtube is a weird beast. It improves your ratings whether someone upvotes or downvotes you. Whether someone’s comment is crappy or nice, it improves your ratings.
The only way on youtube to not help a video go up in ratings is to ignore it. Anything you do, *anything* will bump them in search results, associated video lists, and make them money if they’re an affiliate.
#24
I always wondered why that comic became the definitive example of sea lioning as it is used, i.e. as a name for trolling via polite(ish) but disingenuous and incessant requests for explanation. It seems to me that within the context of the portrayed scenario, the sea lion was only acting in a reasonable and justified manner. It had just been discriminated against!
FWIW, I really liked the video. It finally answered my question of “What the heck IS a tardigrade?” beyond “It’s some kind of weird insectish protazoa-ish thingy” which was my working answer.
Whilst not about yourude specifically, in a recent New York Times was the column Confessions of a Digital Nazi Hunter, about corrosive comments and the efforts of the author & others to neutralize them. According to the column, the authour’s team devised an approach which seemed to be working, until it was banned because it worked so well the corrosive commentators complained about it.
(This comment was mistakenly originally posted in the current Political Madness All the Time thread.)
What makes you think it’s not intended?
Holms @31: “You’re in my house!”
That’s reasonable behaviour? Breaking in to someone’s house, or at best, not going home when it’s clear that you’re not welcome any more (or at all), because of an overheard remark?
Thank you for reminding me about the Urban dictionary. When my old computer died I lost a lot of favorites.
#35
The comic gave the name to the habit of incessant, purportedly polite requests for ______. In the comic, the request is for a reasonable thing – why the sea lion prejudice? It did not lend the name to breaking and entering, so I’m not sure why you thought I was referring to that.
You can use the rating systems to ask questions (aside from asking questions in the comments)? I thought it was just a shorthand for saying “Your video sucks/Your video is cool”. Which you could also say in the comments, BTW. Not that it contributes i any way to rational discourse, but I figure rational discourse is not the point of YouTube.
#37
So your argument is that it’s ok to stalk and harass people so long as your motivation is good?
The whole point of the comic is that this behavior is terrible, no matter the context.
I thought the point of the Wondermark strip was that a certain type (lets say sealions) tend to use disagreements as an excuse for stubbornly polite harassment, to the point that you’d be perfectly sensible to despise sealions generally for no further reason.
And if you do despise sealions, it will naturally be sometimes seized by sealions as “bigoted prejudice”, because that’s a perfect excuse for stubbornly polite harassment.
jack16:
Oh, poor pitiful you! A whole lot of us old people have figured out we’re on this thing called the internet. On the internet, there are these things called search engines. You can look stuff up, imagine that! Or, when you’re taking part in a social discussion, you can go radically old fashioned, and…ask!
FFS.
Fuck. Now the comments on that video have been invaded by old assholes with grudges, whining about being banned here…and complaining about elevatorgate of all things. They can’t just let go. There’s a reason they were banned, and they’re making it obvious.
@42, Caine
Caine… I don’t think your escalation of conflict was warranted here. O:
:(
Ignoring YouTube and going to see a Star War is a good idea. My favorite characters were the horse-giraffe-cat whatsis. And the crystal foxes.