My best friend’s wife was sharing a story on Facebook and decrying the fact that Iowa voted to cut funding from planned parenthood. She told a story about how it helped her when she was younger, poor, and didn’t have insurance to get the necessary medical stuff she’d need (and even helped with things when she had her first child). She seemed legitimately upset that they want to demonize it.
The post before that one was ripping into all of the people who weren’t giving Trump a chance. The one before that was sharing a Trump message, and there are several more that made it clear which one she voted for (hint, the person won and she was excited).
Still amazing how many people voted for the person that said very plainly he was going to screw them all over by cutting the programs they rely on.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem))says
That’s Trump’s fake news right there. We’ll enjoy having swords skewer our heads. /s
Actually representative of most advice these days “make the best of the bad situation. Enjoy it regardless”
?
Reginald Selkirksays
Happy Friday the 13th to all.
Reginald Selkirksays
dWhisper #2: Still amazing how many people voted for the person that said very plainly he was going to screw them all over by cutting the programs they rely on.
Trump actually spoke against defunding Planned Parenthood. He also spoke in favor of saving Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Destroying all those things are long-time Republican goals, but Trump was willing to go against them.
rietpluimsays
Something tells me that people saying “give Trump a chance” would never have said “give Clinton a chance”.
martin50says
Does anyone have any idea who drew this and when? It looks as if it might be a historical event.
cartomancersays
This is an example of a fairly common tradition in medieval manuscript illumination. It was considered a good Christian virtue to endure pain and suffering without breaking one’s beatific calm. Saints are frequently shown being tortured, dismembered and killed with this kind of expression. Letting it get to you and screaming in agony was thought a sign of devotion to the flesh and earthly things.
cartomancer@#8: It was considered a good Christian virtue to endure pain and suffering without breaking one’s beatific calm.
Thank you for explaining that! As someone who was subjected to a great deal of medieval art growing up, I always figured that the saints looked so chill while being tortured because: bad art. I distinctly remember one saint who was standing with a big grin looking at her breasts which, separately, were cooking on a grill. I never could decide whether medieval art was so horrible because it reflected the society of the time, or whether the dark ages were so dark because their leaders were all kinked from growing up looking at that crap.
robrosays
Zepplin — Per the Ppppfff Herr Reinmar von Brennenberg was not murdered, but his son Reinmar III was. Maybe the Codex was fake news.
It’s a bit of a bother when you dress, but you get used to it.
Zeppelinsays
@robro
Aha! The murder must have been hot news at the time, if it happened in 1273 and the codex was finished around 1275. I guess they got Reinmars II and III mixed up?
kevinalexander, imagine the difficulties for their detectives:
Did the thief look like this guy (shows tapestry)? No? Well, I guess we’re stumped.
Moggiesays
This could have featured in Mallory Ortberg’s “two monks” series at the-toast.net. Something like:
Monk #1: So, what would someone look like when they’re being stabbed in the head? Happy, or…?
Monk #2: Oh, definitely happy, every time.
Monk #1: Really?
Monk #2: Yeah. it’s the best.
Monk #1: Ok, thanks. Related question: what would a murderer look like? Cos you’d have to be pretty angry-
Monk #2: Nope, exactly the same.
Monk #1: Got it. Thanks for the help!
robrosays
Zeppelin
I guess they got Reinmars II and III mixed up?
Per Wikipedia (with all the usual caveats about that), Reinmar III was murdered in 1276, while Reinmar II died in the same time frame (1271-1275). The Codex Manesse was produced between c. 1304 and 1340. So, it’s possible that the histories of Reinmar II and Reinmar III had been conflated by that time. Not only is there a time difference between the murder and this record, there’s space: we might think of Zurich and Regensberg as close, but in the 13th/14th century they were really quite far. The creators of the collection possibly had only the vaguest notion of the histories involved and mostly knew legends.
Reinmar II was a minstrel and song writer, from a family of minstrels. The Codex was a collection of poems and songs, mostly Minnesang, or love songs. That’s interesting because many of the illustrations I saw suggest romantic themes (Rapunzel like illustrations of men climbing ladders with a woman in a tower). Given that Reinmar II was from a family of minstrels, I assume it’s likely that Reinmar III was a minstrel as well.
It even seems possible that the association of the panel to Reinmar II is a later day interpolation. The heading gives the name but doesn’t give a number, of course, although there is text to the right of the name that I can’t read. So, it could actually be about Reinmar III, and who knows about the songs.
Furthermore, the creators may not have had the same intent of conveying historical facts that we would have…a common confusion for us, with our modern perspectives about historical and biographical facts, when we look at ancient works about historical figures. We think the creators cared about facts as we know them, when they may have had another agenda all together. (They were in the pre-fact world, much as we’re moving into a post-fact world.)
Anyway, thanks for the tip. One of the things I like about Pharyngula is the way PZ and commenters introduce opportunities to discover new things.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem))says
re@18:
The medieval illuminators had a pretty bad graphics kit. It could only do the one face and the one facial expression.
My impression also, from my sub-minimal art history knowledge. Before the “age of Realism”, art was mostly what we now call clip-art, where figures were basically depicted identically from painting to painting, with no difference in lighting nor size to represent perspective. So they first drew the figure in the prototype’s posture and expression, then grafted on embellishments like the sword plunging into his skull, with flames to mask the seam.
So there’s my ignorance broad brushing pre-Rennaissance artwork (see how I said that? *#tongueincheek*).
Marcus@15 I would imagine the artist behind the female saint painting you mentioned would be a big hit with the vore and guro crowd.(And to anyone who doesn’t know what those words refer to, don’t look. You’ll save on brain bleach that way.)
davidc1says
Well done Zeppelin ,well spotted .
Kevenalexander ,is that why in medieval manuscripts all the common soldiers are shown with their visors down ,the artist was crap at doing faces ,yuk yuk .
davidc1says
I bet the guy who posted on social media that he is glad Obamacare is being scrapped but he will be ok because he is covered by the ACA is feeling like that right now .
Trump actually spoke against defunding Planned Parenthood. He also spoke in favor of saving Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Destroying all those things are long-time Republican goals, but Trump was willing to go against them.
That’s all well and good, but Trump said a lot of things — oftentimes saying one thing one day and the opposite the next. I am not going to bother to look, but I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that at some point Trump also called for the defunding of Planned Parenthood, and/or the destruction of Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.
What a Maroon, living up to the 'nymsays
Yeah, Trump is the Bible of politicians–you can use him to defend any position you want.
davidc1says
Hi ,i posted 27 on the comments page of the Independent ,and someone replied .
What the f**k has it got to do with you .
I replied back asking him if he was covered by the ACA
Off topic ,but david irving has surfaced again,he claims he is getting support from teenage fartface supporters .
Siobhan says
He seems pretty chill for a guy being stabbed in the head.
dWhisper says
My best friend’s wife was sharing a story on Facebook and decrying the fact that Iowa voted to cut funding from planned parenthood. She told a story about how it helped her when she was younger, poor, and didn’t have insurance to get the necessary medical stuff she’d need (and even helped with things when she had her first child). She seemed legitimately upset that they want to demonize it.
The post before that one was ripping into all of the people who weren’t giving Trump a chance. The one before that was sharing a Trump message, and there are several more that made it clear which one she voted for (hint, the person won and she was excited).
Still amazing how many people voted for the person that said very plainly he was going to screw them all over by cutting the programs they rely on.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says
That’s Trump’s fake news right there. We’ll enjoy having swords skewer our heads. /s
Actually representative of most advice these days “make the best of the bad situation. Enjoy it regardless”
?
Reginald Selkirk says
Happy Friday the 13th to all.
Reginald Selkirk says
Trump actually spoke against defunding Planned Parenthood. He also spoke in favor of saving Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. Destroying all those things are long-time Republican goals, but Trump was willing to go against them.
rietpluim says
Something tells me that people saying “give Trump a chance” would never have said “give Clinton a chance”.
martin50 says
Does anyone have any idea who drew this and when? It looks as if it might be a historical event.
cartomancer says
This is an example of a fairly common tradition in medieval manuscript illumination. It was considered a good Christian virtue to endure pain and suffering without breaking one’s beatific calm. Saints are frequently shown being tortured, dismembered and killed with this kind of expression. Letting it get to you and screaming in agony was thought a sign of devotion to the flesh and earthly things.
sigaba says
If only the Tsar knew!
rietpluim says
The guy doing the stabbing is looking pretty chill too by the way.
Zeppelin says
@martin50
I’m pretty sure it’s from the Codex Manesse, a lovely illustrated collection of medieval German Minnesang poetry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Manesse
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg848
Zeppelin says
Yup, it’s fol.188r in that facsimile. It shows Herr Reinmar von Brennenberg getting murdered.
martin50 says
Zeppelin, I am seriously impressed! Thanks!
Marcus Ranum says
Zeppelin: uh, that was an amazing performance on your part. Chapeau!
Marcus Ranum says
cartomancer@#8:
It was considered a good Christian virtue to endure pain and suffering without breaking one’s beatific calm.
Thank you for explaining that! As someone who was subjected to a great deal of medieval art growing up, I always figured that the saints looked so chill while being tortured because: bad art. I distinctly remember one saint who was standing with a big grin looking at her breasts which, separately, were cooking on a grill. I never could decide whether medieval art was so horrible because it reflected the society of the time, or whether the dark ages were so dark because their leaders were all kinked from growing up looking at that crap.
robro says
Zepplin — Per the Ppppfff Herr Reinmar von Brennenberg was not murdered, but his son Reinmar III was. Maybe the Codex was fake news.
Chris Capoccia says
lots of these around like this one
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/102/288/610.jpeg
or Saint Pierre de Vérone
http://reflexionchretienne.e-monsite.com/medias/images/saint-pierre-de-verone.jpg
kevinalexander says
The medieval illuminators had a pretty bad graphics kit. It could only do the one face and the one facial expression.
tomhuld says
It reminded me of a painting I saw at the Thyssen museum in Madrid:
http://www.museothyssen.org/en/thyssen/ficha_obra/690
It’s a bit of a bother when you dress, but you get used to it.
Zeppelin says
@robro
Aha! The murder must have been hot news at the time, if it happened in 1273 and the codex was finished around 1275. I guess they got Reinmars II and III mixed up?
CaitieCat, Harridan of Social Justice says
kevinalexander, imagine the difficulties for their detectives:
Did the thief look like this guy (shows tapestry)? No? Well, I guess we’re stumped.
Moggie says
This could have featured in Mallory Ortberg’s “two monks” series at the-toast.net. Something like:
Monk #1: So, what would someone look like when they’re being stabbed in the head? Happy, or…?
Monk #2: Oh, definitely happy, every time.
Monk #1: Really?
Monk #2: Yeah. it’s the best.
Monk #1: Ok, thanks. Related question: what would a murderer look like? Cos you’d have to be pretty angry-
Monk #2: Nope, exactly the same.
Monk #1: Got it. Thanks for the help!
robro says
Zeppelin
Per Wikipedia (with all the usual caveats about that), Reinmar III was murdered in 1276, while Reinmar II died in the same time frame (1271-1275). The Codex Manesse was produced between c. 1304 and 1340. So, it’s possible that the histories of Reinmar II and Reinmar III had been conflated by that time. Not only is there a time difference between the murder and this record, there’s space: we might think of Zurich and Regensberg as close, but in the 13th/14th century they were really quite far. The creators of the collection possibly had only the vaguest notion of the histories involved and mostly knew legends.
Reinmar II was a minstrel and song writer, from a family of minstrels. The Codex was a collection of poems and songs, mostly Minnesang, or love songs. That’s interesting because many of the illustrations I saw suggest romantic themes (Rapunzel like illustrations of men climbing ladders with a woman in a tower). Given that Reinmar II was from a family of minstrels, I assume it’s likely that Reinmar III was a minstrel as well.
It even seems possible that the association of the panel to Reinmar II is a later day interpolation. The heading gives the name but doesn’t give a number, of course, although there is text to the right of the name that I can’t read. So, it could actually be about Reinmar III, and who knows about the songs.
Furthermore, the creators may not have had the same intent of conveying historical facts that we would have…a common confusion for us, with our modern perspectives about historical and biographical facts, when we look at ancient works about historical figures. We think the creators cared about facts as we know them, when they may have had another agenda all together. (They were in the pre-fact world, much as we’re moving into a post-fact world.)
Anyway, thanks for the tip. One of the things I like about Pharyngula is the way PZ and commenters introduce opportunities to discover new things.
slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says
re@18:
My impression also, from my sub-minimal art history knowledge. Before the “age of Realism”, art was mostly what we now call clip-art, where figures were basically depicted identically from painting to painting, with no difference in lighting nor size to represent perspective. So they first drew the figure in the prototype’s posture and expression, then grafted on embellishments like the sword plunging into his skull, with flames to mask the seam.
So there’s my ignorance broad brushing pre-Rennaissance artwork (see how I said that? *#tongueincheek*).
timgueguen says
Marcus@15 I would imagine the artist behind the female saint painting you mentioned would be a big hit with the vore and guro crowd.(And to anyone who doesn’t know what those words refer to, don’t look. You’ll save on brain bleach that way.)
davidc1 says
Well done Zeppelin ,well spotted .
Kevenalexander ,is that why in medieval manuscripts all the common soldiers are shown with their visors down ,the artist was crap at doing faces ,yuk yuk .
davidc1 says
I bet the guy who posted on social media that he is glad Obamacare is being scrapped but he will be ok because he is covered by the ACA is feeling like that right now .
The Vicar (via Freethoughtblogs) says
@#5, Reginald Selkirk
That’s all well and good, but Trump said a lot of things — oftentimes saying one thing one day and the opposite the next. I am not going to bother to look, but I would be willing to bet a small sum of money that at some point Trump also called for the defunding of Planned Parenthood, and/or the destruction of Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.
What a Maroon, living up to the 'nym says
Yeah, Trump is the Bible of politicians–you can use him to defend any position you want.
davidc1 says
Hi ,i posted 27 on the comments page of the Independent ,and someone replied .
What the f**k has it got to do with you .
I replied back asking him if he was covered by the ACA
Off topic ,but david irving has surfaced again,he claims he is getting support from teenage fartface supporters .