We’ve had this long-simmering football controversy here in the upper midwest — a North Dakota football team named itself after an Indian tribe. They try to argue that it’s not racist and claim that it’s a respectful homage to the natives, but look at the history of such naming elsewhere: the Washington DC football team name is unabashedly racist.
This Washington football team was named by one of the most vehement racists in the history of American professional sports. When George Marshall bought the team in 1932, they were called the Boston Braves. He changed the name — to a slur, because he was a racist — and moved them to Washington. He made “Dixie” one of the team’s fight songs and refused to hire black players well into the 1960s. The NFL integrated in 1946 but Marshall’s team held out until the federal government actually forced them to field black players in 1963. The all-white Washington teams of the 1950s and 1960s were among the worst in the league, but segregation was more important to Marshall than winning football games. The NFL had actually already been raciallyintegrated until black players were suddenly banned in 1933. Interviews with owners suggest that Marshall was responsible for the ban.
This is the man who named the team and white supremacy and racism obviously informed his every decision. In his will he insisted that his foundation not spend any money on “any purpose which supports or employs the principle of racial integration in any form.” It is extremely hard to believe that this man selected the name — specially changed the name from a less offensive term for American Indians to this term — to “honor” anyone, the usual argument used by the team’s modern defenders.
The current owner has vowed to never change the name, and is desperately working to build up some PR spin to cover his butt. So what does he do?
The Washington DC-area NFL franchise has commissioned veteran Republican pollster Frank Luntz to conduct some focus groups to see how American football fans feel about the franchise’s name, which is a vile racial slur.
Oh, yeah. When you want to whitewash racism, you call the professionals: a Republican apparatchik. Everyone knows that.
If you read some of the linked articles, you’ll discover that one of the reasons the team refuses to change their name is that they did a poll…and found that Americans preferred that they keep their racist name, 9:1. Are we at all surprised? And is it any wonder that they’ve now hired a Republican pollster to skew the bias even more?
Isn’t the first rule of holes also the second rule of holes?
I”m not sure the university vs the football team is a good comparison on your part PZ.
UND officials are actually okay with changing the name, but the existing UND name is actually supported by a number of Sioux who have actively found to keep it. I seriously doubt you have any native Americans supporting “Redskins”.
I’m not saying there there is not something wrong with the name of the Siouxs (I definitely don’t know the history of the team). However, isn’t it rather disingenuous to base your argument off of another team’s history? How is the racism of a DC team owner relevant to a North Dakota team? If you are going to give us a history lesson, wouldn’t it be better to stick to the facts of the this case? Maybe I missed something?
Best line by a sportswriter ever. Bar none.
Born ineligible to play for the Redskins, Jim Brown integrated their end zone three times yesterday.
Shirley Povich.
I remember when the Bullets decided to rename themselves to the Wizards, because Bullets was too violent. And people were like “Uhm… but ‘Redskins’ is totally cool??? Really???” Violence is a no-no, but racism is a-ok.
It’s pretty pathetic that they haven’t changed it yet. My high school got rid of the same name nearly 20 years ago now.
I think that the Sioux tribe is missing the bet. If Texas A&M can collect license fees for the use of “The 12th Man”, then surely the Sioux are due some compensation.
Redskins is definitely racist as all hell and needs changed – and I know people would bitch about losing history, but I think the Washington Braves or the Washington Warriors would be perfectly fine and nobody would really miss a beat .
Fighting Sioux actually isn’t that bad, they don’t really have a racist mascot and there are Sioux people who think it’s pretty acceptable. Sioux just isn’t really a racist term. North Dakota has much bigger problems to handle right now anyway.
doublereed, I’m not sure you’re right — I thought the Washington Bullets changed their name to the Baltimore Bullets because “Washington” was too scary and demeaning….
Of course most people will tolerate all sorts of crap in the name of Change Is Bad.
tmscott:
I just love reading shit like this.
And more shit like this.
wičhánata háeče. :spits:
So change the name to “Fighting Abortions” and problem solved.
Sioux isn’t a racist term, it’s the name of a Nation. Using a Nation or a race as a mascot IS racist, though.
How wrong is it? Let me count the ways…
1. Racist
2. Dehumanizing
3. Appropriative
4. Colonialist
5. Revisionist
I’m probably missing some.
This, I like.
And what makes it even worse is that “Wizards” brings to mind the KKK.
How many of the players are actually of Sioux descent? I’m guessing few if any. It’s false advertising if nothing else.
FYI, there is so such thing as “the Sioux tribe.” There are many different tribes lumped under that name. It is not a name they chose for themselves, but one that was forced upon them. It continues to be used because it’s in the treaties and some people do choose to accept it for themselves, but this name refers to no specific tribe.
I’m personally always cautious about using that name because I was taught it was an insult my ancestors placed on their neighbors. I’m not sure how accurate that etymology is now, but it’s not my place to make that call. If there are people saying this team name is causing them harm–and there are students saying just that–they need to be listened to and seriously considered. They don’t need other people telling them “but it’s not really a slur.”
@TMM
I retract the initial part of my comment #13. I apologize for not knowing the history of the name.
This is a little off topic, but I’m very impressed that North Dakota has a women’s football team that plays hockey well enough to make it to the tournament.
Knowing a little history does indeed help. Not all such teams are exercises in racism. The Cleveland Indians were named after the first Native American player to play professional baseball for Cleveland. Despite Cleveland actually trying to honour a player in their own franchise, Cleveland is routinely asked to change their name. (The issue of the Chief Wahoo logo is a separate issue. That logo may indeed be offensive and maybe should be modified or abandoned, but the name of the team itself should not, given it’s history.)
I don’t know whether the particular North Dakota team is in the camp of trying to honor a player or culture, or if it’s in the camp of being racist dicks. But “racist dicks” isn’t the only possible answer.
Caine, Fleur du mal @ 11
Why don’t they call themselves “The Angloes”? Where is their fucking pride?
It’s my recollection that there is a causal correlation between native based names and mascots and worse academic performance in schools.
I figure if I actually wanted to “honor” American Indians, I would:
Provide partial or full ownership to the nation in question
Donate money to the American Indian scholarship fund
Support educational initiatives within and without the organization
Etc.
Using a racist team name or mascot would be very low on my list.
mythbri, they aren’t my people, so I’m very cautious about what I’d say on the topic beyond the fact that the name came from outside. Anything I might say could be as wrong as someone from a farm in France trying to describe the factory politics of Ireland. I see Caine has responded here, so I’ll bow out so I don’t confuse anything with my own ignorance.
How come Germans are never honoured in such a way? Why aren’t there scores of teams with jerseys that simply read “French”? Surely there’s got to be a worthwhile European somewhere in the long history of sports that deserves to have their legacy boiled down and reduced to the “[City Name] Pastyfaces”.
Hang on, I’m confused. How is “The Fighting Sioux” racist? Sioux is a real First Nation. I might be showing my ignorance here…
More importantly, how many likes does it have on YouTube?
Unless you happen to know a little history.
Go ahead, look it up.
Ooh, I’ve got one to honour the legacy of the whites who came to settle North Dakota:
The North Dakota Good Christ Get A Fucking Tan Already; You’d Look Like A Burning Strip of Magnesium If It Weren’t For The Ugly Blue Spider Veinses!
The logo could be Prince Charles’ ears.
Perhaps Washington’s NFL franchise should consider changing their logo to this.
@Anthony K
I like your use of the word “veinses” :) made me imagine the whole thing in a Gollum voice.
Hey, Gollum wouldn’t a bad emblem, he fucking embodies the team name :)
Now having read the entire thread:
Caine (hug) I’m sorry that this is happening.
_____
Everybody else.
The word Sioux is a Cherokee word that means “enemy” in reference to the Lakota/ Dakota tribes who they were in regular conflict with over territory.
Some Lakota tribes have incorporated it, but others do not appreciate it one bit for very good reason.
The Mellow Monkey,
Thanks for that explanation in #17. I had no idea :/
Thumper: Would the fighting Mexicans be cool? How about the fighting Nigerians?
(I leave to the imagination the mascots and chants, but it should be clear only the crassest of stereotypes will be possible for a large sports team.)
The name need not be racist in itself, the context matters.
Also as an Irishman, if anyone brings up Notre Dame and says is that racist, shut up and listen. We are white and at the top here. Seriously. Not the same.
Well true, I am from ND, I am a ridiculously pale person, I don’t tan, and you can see all my veinses.
Well, Notre Dame does have the “Fighting Irish.” However, despite superficial similarities, the two cases aren’t really the same, what with the U.S. never having committed acts of genocide against the Irish and so forth.
Maybe you should also worry about the Chiefs (more “native Americans”?), the Vikings (raking up history that present-day peace-loving Scandinavians might prefer to forget), the Patriots (“last refuge of the scoundrel”), Browns (even if it’s not racist, brown shirts are associated with fascism), and the Cardinals (associated with a great multitude of sins).
Done a little bit more research here, and both Tethys and TMM are correct in that many of the people referred to as “Sioux” reject the name, and only a few have incorporated it. It’s also quite clear that Caine does not identify with this name either.
Adding to what Tethys has said, it seems as though “Sioux” is a catch-all bastardized term from other First Nation dialects, probably given to very diverse groups of people by French-Canadian traders, and the most common etymologies are insulting.
Sheesh. I wish I could take back my whole comment at #13. Sorry. Any more questions on why this is racist?
The Conniving Jews? The Thieving Irish? The Welching Welch? The Ignorant Americans?
The False Equivalencing Voles.
@24 Seems you’ve never heard of the Minnesota Vikings, the Boston Celtics, the Montreal Canadiens, the New York Yankees, or the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame.
@vole #36
Why the scare quotes? Are you mocking “political correctness” or are you in doubt that First Nations people really exist?
Who does the name offend?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/fighting-sioux-controvers_n_1592841.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0612/77370.html
http://jonathanturley.org/2012/05/03/fighting-sioux-cannot-sue-federal-court-throws-out-tribes-challenge-of-ncaa-rule/Why are members of the Sioux tribe trying to keep the name if it is offensive to them? If it isn't offensive to them, then what's the problem with the name? Do we tell them they should be offended or does their opinion count?
An excellent resource, with answers to all of the arguments for keeping the name is Adrienne over at Native Appropriations. I found her articles to be educational and helpful and clear up any questions that I myself had on the subject. (Covers the fighting irish comparison, the viking comparison, the fact that not every native american wants to change it, etc.)
Go ahead and have another think then. Has there ever been a conversation about racism in sports teams names in which the Notre Dame Fighting Irish weren’t thrown out as a defence?
There was a reason I used the word scores. You’ve listed five here (you should have included the Vancouver Canucks to make an even half dozen), which is a spurt in a sock compared to:
American Football[edit]
Kansas City Chiefs (NFL)
Washington Redskins (NFL)[7]
Association Football (Soccer)[edit]
Indios de Ciudad Juárez (Mexico)
Kaizer Chiefs F.C. (South Africa), named after the now-defunct American soccer team Atlanta Chiefs
Baseball[edit]
Atlanta Braves (MLB), originally Boston Braves, then Milwaukee Braves, plus all but one of their minor league affiliates:
Danville Braves
Gulf Coast League Braves
Gwinnett Braves (formerly the Richmond Braves)
Mississippi Braves
Rome Braves
Cleveland Indians (MLB), along with one current minor league affiliate and one defunct affiliate:
Gulf Coast Indians
Kinston Indians (defunct; replaced in 2012 by the Carolina Mudcats)
Indianapolis Indians
Peoria Chiefs—The Peoria Chiefs no longer use indigenous imagery, instead using imagery related to firefighters.
Spokane Indians
Syracuse Chiefs—The team changed its name from “Chiefs” to “SkyChiefs” from 1996–2006, but reverted to “Chiefs” in 2007. Today’s Chiefs do not use any imagery related to indigenous peoples, instead using railroad image
Indios de Ciudad Juarez
Yaquis de Obregón
Caribes de Anzoátegui (Venezuelan Professional Baseball League)
Mayos de Navojoa (Liga Mexicana del Pacifico)
Basketball[edit]
Atlanta Hawks (NBA) — Originally Tri-City Blackhawks (1946-1951). The Hawks do not use indigenous imagery.
Golden State Warriors (NBA) — Originally Philadelphia Warriors, then San Francisco Warriors. The Warriors no longer use indigenous imagery.
Guaiqueríes de Margarita (LPB)
Canadian Football[edit]
Edmonton Eskimos (CFL)
Ice Hockey[edit]
Chicago Blackhawks (NHL) – In 2008, this logo was voted best in the National Hockey League by The Hockey News.[8]
Johnstown Chiefs (ECHL) — Named after the Charlestown Chiefs, the fictional team in the movie Slap Shot (partially shot in the real team’s home city of Johnstown, Pennsylvania). Team moved and became Greenville Road Warriors in 2010.
Frölunda Indians (Elitserien)
Moose Jaw Warriors (WHL)
Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
Spokane Chiefs (WHL)
Chilliwack Chiefs (BCHL)
Lacrosse[edit]
Brooklin Redmen
Burlington Chiefs
Kitchener-Waterloo Braves
Elora Mohawks
Mississauga Tomahawks
Six Nations Arrows
Six Nations Chiefs
St. Regis Indians
Rugby[edit]
The New Zealand Warriors, a New Zealand Rugby League team based in Auckland which plays in the Australian NRL competition
The Chiefs, a rugby union team representing the central North Island of New Zealand in the Super Rugby competition
Exeter Chiefs, a rugby union side from England
New Zealand Māori, a New Zealand rugby union (and formerly rugby league) side whose members must be at least 1/16 Māori
Northland Taniwha, a rugby team in the ITM Cup named after a being from Māori mythology
The Tomahawks, the official nickname of the United States national rugby league team
Schools[edit]
Colleges and universities[edit]
Alcorn State Braves
Bradley Braves
Central Michigan Chippewas
Chowan Braves
Florida Southern Moccasins
Florida State University Seminoles
Hawaiʻi Rainbow Warriors (men) and Rainbow Wahine (women) – “Wahine” is the Hawaiian word for “woman”
Since 2000, each team has been allowed to select its own mascot name; most notably, the football team has been simply known as “The Warriors”. See University of Hawaii Athletics for details.
Memorial University of Newfoundland Beothuk – The Beothuk aboriginal peoples went extinct in 1829 and the university named was changed to Sea-Hawks in 1987 as the use of the Beothuk name was deemed offensive.
Mississippi College Choctaws
Ottawa University (KS) Braves
San Diego State Aztecs
UNC Pembroke Braves – representing a college originally created to educate American Indians
University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux
Utah Utes
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign – have removed all official university sanction of Native American imagery, but unofficially, still widely used by students and fans – there is considerable controversy over whether the term “Illini” as originally used at the university was directly related to Native American culture at all, or whether the imagery was added after the fact; documentation tends to indicate that “Illini” refers to the state of Illinois itself and not its indigenous peoples.[9]
William & Mary Tribe – no longer uses any imagery related to indigenous peoples
High schools[edit]
The following high schools are listed in alphabetical order by team name:
Apaches[edit]
Arcadia (CA) Apaches
Pottsville (AR) Apaches
Aztecs[edit]
Esperanza Aztecs
Eskimos or Eskymos[edit]
Escanaba Eskymos
Braves[edit]
Benson (MN) Braves
Bottineau (ND) Braves
Brebeuf Jesuit Braves
Berea High School Braves
Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian Braves
Canandaigua Academy Braves
Grant County High School Braves
Sherman Indian High School Braves
Socastee High School Braves
St. John Bosco High School Braves
Tomales Braves
Turtle Mountain Community Schools Braves, Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation, Belcourt, ND
Cherokees[edit]
McMinn County High School (TN) Cherokees
Chiefs[edit]
Cherokee (NJ) Chiefs
Deer Creek Mackinaw High School Chiefs
Gaffney Middle School Chiefs
Iroquois Central School District Chiefs
Lakeland (PA) School District Chiefs
Massapequa (NY) Chiefs
Monacan High School Chiefs
Moses Lake Senior High School Chiefs
North Myrtle Beach High School Chiefs
Northview (FL) Chiefs
Sequoyah (GA) Chiefs
Chieftans[edit]
Bellevue East High School Chieftans
Palma High School Chieftains
Sapulpa High School Chieftains
South Barber High School Chieftains, Kiowa, Kansas
Chickasaws[edit]
Blytheville High School Chickasaws
Comaches[edit]
Canyon Comanches
Indians[edit]
Albany (GA) Indians
Arickaree Indians, Anton, Colorado
Armijo High School Indians
Armuchee High School Indians
Berlin Indians
Browning Indians, Blackfeet Reservation
Caddo Hills (AR) Indians
Catawba Indians
Catoosa High School Indians
Charlton County High School Indians
Chattooga High School Indians
Choctawhatchee High School Indians
Council Rock North High School Indians
Cross Keys (GA) High School Indians
Dodge County High School Indians
Gaffney High School Indians
Fairfield High School Indians (Cincinnati, OH)
Four Winds High School Indians, Spirit Lake Reservation, Fort Totten, North Dakota
Fullerton Union High School Indians
Conemaugh Township Indians
H. C. Wilcox Technical High School – The Indians
Irwin County High School Indians
Juniata (PA) High School Indians
Keller High School Indians
Manhattan (KS) High School Indians
Murray County High School Indians
Lane Technical College Prep High School Indians
Lewistown (IL) High School Indians
McEachern (GA) High School Indians
Molalla Indians
Newberry Indians
Pocatello High School Indians
Powhatan High School Indians
Poyen (AR) Indians
Reardan High School (WA) Indians
Renton Indians
Scappoose (OR) High School Indians – Scappoose is the Chinook word for the area, meaning gravely plain
Sewanhaka High School Indians
Skowhegan Area (ME) High School Indians
Passaic High School Indians
Port Neches–Groves Indians
St. Joseph’s High School (South Bend, Indiana) Indians
Susquehanna High School Indians Harrisburg, PA.
Upper Perkiomen High School Indians Pennsburg, PA.
Waite High School (OH) Indians
Ysleta High School Indian
Mohawks[edit]
Macklin Mohawks
Piggott (AR) Mohawks
Mohicans[edit]
Gardena High School Mohicans
Mohigans[edit]
Morgantown High School Mohigans
Red Raiders[edit]
Port Richmond Red Raiders
Uniontown (PA) Red Raiders
Redmen[edit]
Bedford Road Collegiate Redmen
Cedar High School Redmen
Parma Senior High School Redmen
Smith Center (KS) Redmen
Reds[edit]
Eaton Reds, Eaton, Colorado
Redskins[edit]
Coshocton (Ohio) High School Redskins
Cuyahoga Heights High School Redskins
Goshen High School (Indiana) Redskins
Hurricane (WV) High School Redskins
Knox (Indiana) High School Redskins
Lamar High School (Houston, Texas) Redskins
Liberal (KS) High School Redskins
Pocahontas (AR) Redskins
Port Clinton Redskins
Sandusky High School Redskins
Sanford (Maine) High School Redskins
Saranac (MI) High School Redskins
Tulare Union High School Redskins
Tulsa Union High School Redskins
Teton High School Redskins – Driggs, Idaho
North Side High School (Indiana) Redskins
Renegades[edit]
Shawnee (NJ) Renegades
Clinton High School (MI) Redskins
Sachems[edit]
Winchester High School Sachems
Sauras[edit]
South Stokes (NC) Sauras
Seminoles[edit]
Osceola (AR) Seminoles
Sioux[edit]
Solen High School Sioux, Standing Rock Sioux Reservation, (Solen, North Dakota)
Westhope High School Sioux (Westhope, North Dakota)
Thunderbirds[edit]
Bellevue West High School Thunderbirds
Tribe[edit]
Monterey YMCA Tribe
Warriors[edit]
Aloha High School Warriors
Anadarko Warriors
B. Reed Henderson Warriors
Birmingham Brother Rice Warriors
Cambridge Rindge and Latin School (MA) Warriors
Curtis High School Warriors
Cherokee (GA) Warriors
East Poinsett County (AR) Warriors
Gordon Central High School Warriors
Granard Middle School Warriors
Hall High School (Connecticut) Warriors
Heart Butte Warriors, Blackfeet Reservation
Jupiter Community High School Warriors
Lakeview–Fort Oglethorpe High School Warriors
Lake View Warriors
Lamar (AR) Warriors
Mandaree High School Warriors, Fort Berthold Indian Reservation, Mandaree, North Dakota
McClymonds High School Warriors
Oconee County High School Warriors
Ouachita High School Warriors
Mohawk High School (Sycamore, Ohio) Warriors
North Cobb (GA) High School Warriors
Pocahotas County (WV) High School Warriors
Standing Rock High School Warriors, Standing Rock Indian Reservation, Fort Yates, ND
Smithville High School (Missouri) Warriors
Thompson High School Warriors
Tuloso-Midway High School (TX) Warriors
Walsh Jesuit High School Warriors
Warroad Warriors
Warwick High School Warriors, Spirit Lake Indian Reservation, Warwick, ND
Wawasee High School Warriors
Wayne High School (Huber Heights, Ohio) Warriors
Weldon Valley Warriors, Weldona, Colorado
West Orange High School (Winter Garden, Florida) Warriors
Western Grove (AR) Warriors
Westside (AR) Warriors
Wheaton Academy Warriors
Wickes (AR) Warriors
Waccamaw High School Warriors
Watchung Hills Regional High School Warriors
Waunakee High School Warriors – Waunakee means peaceful valley in a Native American language
White County (GA) High School Warriors
White Shield High School Warrors, Fort Berthold Indian Reservation, Roseglen, ND
Winnacunnet Warriors
Wyandotte High School (Mi) Warriors
Grass Lake High School (MI) Warriors
Other[edit]
Defunct names[edit]
Adams State Indians, now the “Grizzlies”
Akron Indians, defunct National Football League team, formerly the “Pros”
Arkansas State Indians, now the “Red Wolves”
Tri-Cities Blackhawks, of what is now the NBA, moved and renamed Milwaukee / St. Louis / Atlanta “Hawks,” after the bird
Burlington Indians, now known as the Burlington Royals after affiliating with the Kansas City Royals
Canton/Akron Indians, a minor league baseball farm team for the Cleveland Indians, moved to Akron and became the “Aeros”
Carlisle Indians, a school for American Indians that was a college football power in the early 1900s
Carthage Redmen, reverted to the “Red Men”
Cleveland Indians of the National Football League, team defunct
Colgate Red Raiders, now the Colgate Raiders
Cumberland Indians, now the Cumberlands “Patriots”
The school was known as Cumberland College until 2005, when it became the University of the Cumberlands. The nickname was changed in 2002.
Dartmouth Indians, disused since the 1970s in favor of continuing existing nickname, “Big Green”
Dickinson State Savages, renamed the “Blue Hawks” in 1972
Duluth Eskimos, also known as the Duluth Kelleys, a professional football team from Duluth, MN from 1923-1927.
Eastern Michigan Hurons, now the “Eagles”
Eastern Washington Savages, renamed the “Eagles” in 1973
Flint Indians, team defunct
Flint Central High School Indians, renamed “Phoenix” in 2005
Grand Forks Central Redskins, renamed the “Knights”
Grafton Blackhawks, renamed to “Black Hawks”
Grand Rapids High School Indians (Grand Rapids, Minnesota), renamed the “Thunderhawks”
Hartwick Warriors, became the “Hawks” in 1994
Hermosillo Seris
Hiawatha (KS) High School Redskins, changed to Red Hawks in 2000
IUP Indians (Indiana University of Pennsylvania) became the “Crimson Hawks” in 2007
Kansas City Scouts of the NHL, moved to Colorado and became the Rockies, now the New Jersey Devils
Kinston Indians, defunct minor league baseball team
Louisiana-Monroe Indians, now the “Warhawks”
Marquette Warriors, became the “Golden Eagles” in 1994
UMass Redmen, became the “Minutemen” in 1972 (according to the University, “Redmen” and “Redwomen” referred to the uniforms worn by the athletics teams. It was changed to “Minutemen” and “Minutewomen” out of sensitivity to American Indians).
MCLA Mohawks, today the “Trailblazers”
McMurry Indians, removed their team nickname entirely in 2006
Mexico City Aztecas
Miami Redskins, in mid-1997, officially changed their names to the “RedHawks”
Midwestern State Indians, latterly the “Mustangs” as of the 2006 season
Millard South High School Indians (Omaha, Neb.) changed to Patriots in 2000
Monticello High School Redmen, in Monticello, Minnesota, now “Magic”
Montevideo High School Mohawks (MN) today the Thunder Hawks
Nebraska Wesleyan Plainsmen, today the “Prairie Wolves”
North Dakota Fighting Sioux, now no mascot
Northeastern Oklahoma State University Redmen, now the “RiverHawks”
Oklahoma City U. Chiefs, now the “Stars”
Oorang Indians, defunct National Football League team, actually consisting mostly of Native Americans
Ossining Indians, now no mascot
Ottawa Tomahawks (NBL) – name dropped shortly after announced due to controversy
Owatonna Indians, now the “Huskies”
Parsippany High School Redskins, Parsippany-Troy Hills, New Jersey, now the “Redhawks”
Penfield High School Chiefs, Penfield, New York, now the “Patriots”
Pekin High School in Pekin, Illinois were the “Chinks” until 1980
Poynette High School Indians, Poynette, Wisconsin, became the “Pumas” in 2009[10]
Quinnipiac Braves, became the “Bobcats” in 2002
St. Bonaventure Brown Indians and Brown Squaws, renamed the “Bonnies” in 1979
St. John’s University (New York), formerly the “Redmen”, became the “Red Storm” in 1995, to be gender-neutral and to avoid any appearance of racism. The school’s website indicates that the name did not refer to American Indians, but to the school color, a bright cardinal red.
Salisbury Indians, team defunct
Seneca College Braves, renamed Seneca College Sting in 1999-2000
Seneca High School Redskins in Louisville, Kentucky, now “RedHawks”
Sauk Rapids-Rice High School Indians, in Sauk Rapids, Minnesota, now “Storm”
Simpson Redmen and Lady Reds, renamed the “Storm” in 1992
Southeast Missouri State Indians and Otahkians, renamed the “Redhawks” in 2004.
Southeastern Oklahoma State Savages, renamed “Savage Storm” in 2006
Springfield Indians, moved to Worcester and became the IceCats, then Peoria, Illinois, where they are now the Rivermen
Seattle U. Chieftains, now the “Redhawks”
Southern Nazarene Redskins, now the “Crimson Storm”
Springfield College Chiefs, now the “Pride”
St. Catharines Black Hawks
St. Catharines Teepees
Stanford Indians, now known as the Stanford “Cardinal” (singular – for the school color, a shade of red)
Stonehill Chieftains, today the “Skyhawks”
Syracuse Orangemen, now the Syracuse Orange, once used a mascot called the “Saltine Warrior”
Tamalpais Indians, became the Tamalpais High School “Red Tailed Hawks” [sic] after 1990.[11]
Toronto Tecumseh (OALA Sr A), was the “Tecumseh” in the late 19th century and maybe early 20th; changed to “Toronto Young Torontos” by 1911
West Georgia Braves, renamed the “Wolves” in 2006
William & Mary Indians, renamed “Tribe” in 1978
Mascots[edit]
Chief Osceola, Florida State University Seminoles
San Diego State Aztec Warrior
Chief Wahoo, Cleveland Indians
Defunct mascots[edit]
Indiana State University’s Chief Ouabache and Indian Princess were discontinued in 1989
The Golden State Warriors’ “Indian warrior” logo was replaced in 1971
Marquette University’s “Willie Wampum,” retired in 1971
Syracuse University’s “Saltine Warrior”
Kansas City Chiefs horse mascot “Warpaint”.
Chief Brave Spirit, University of Louisiana at Monroe, retired in 2006 (mascot changed from “Indians” to “Warhawks”)
Chief Moccanooga, University of Tennessee at Chattanooga (use of this mascot ended in 1996)
Chief Noc-A-Homa, Milwaukee and Atlanta Braves (use of this mascot ended in early 1980s, existed as late as 1983 season)
Princess Win-A-Lotta, paired with Chief Noc-A-Homa, introduced late 1970s, dropped at same time as Noc-A-Homa
Chief Illiniwek, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
University of Oklahoma, Little Red
William Jackson Palmer High School “Terrors”. Eagle Beak mascot replaced with a bird.
Fictional Teams[edit]
Charlestown Chiefs (Federal Hockey League) (Slap Shot).
The Mars Greenskins – Blernsball is the version of baseball in the year 3000 in the show Futurama.
NY Mohawks – major league team, The Seventh Game by Roger Kahn.
Niagara Falls Chiefs, in the Gordon Korman novel The Zucchini Warriors.
Warriors – major league team, Today’s Game by Martin Quigley.
Warbury Warriors – Stiker comic strip.
Enthusiastically seconded.
My point isn’t that the existence of those teams settles the issue. My point is that you look like a fool saying “how come there are no such teams” when there clearly are.
Fighting Irish
Fighting Dutchmen
Terrible Swedes
Great Danes
Vikings, Highlanders, Celtics, Spartans, Trojans, Visigoths*.
Milwaukee Brewers: Germans.
San Diego Padres: Spaniards.
Montreal Canadiens: French.
Los Angeles Lakers: Norwegians.
New York Islanders: Italians, Irish, and Jews.
I rest my case.
*ok, that one I made up.
I would have thought the name Chicago Black Hawks would enter into this discussion. Or is hockey that low on people’s radar?
An odd story from Canadian university sports: Since 1874, McGill University’s sports team nickname has been “Redmen”. In the 1950s, the director of sports (Vic Obeck) decided to add a logo using a First Nations image. In recent decades, after some public dislike of the name, someone did some research and the name reverted back to its original meaning of “red men” – Celts and Scots with red hair. The question is, do some people now find that usage offensive?
While it may be stating the obvious, the George Preston Marshall who owned the Redskins was not the same man as the George Catlett Marshall who was Army Chief of Staff, Secretary of State and Nobel Peace Prize winner.
Fuckface, this is what I wrote:
Fool indeed, you illiterate dipshit.
Oh piss off Anthony K you pompous, self-righteous wind bag.
That’s about the weakest thing I’ve ever read, even from you, Chas.
The late Andrew Greeley used to say that Notre Dame should change its team name to “the Fighting Black Baptists” as that was a better description of the team.
Regarding the last couple of comments about Irish and similar, I’ll just quote Dalillama:
Says the smarmy fuck who can’t be bothered to read.
ffs, man.
That you took that comment at all seriously (and that you chose to post a C&P 14-screener instead of a link; thanks a lot) suggests that you are perhaps not yourself today.
Chas
I was wondering too, since you left off the /sarc tag it isn’t clear whether you were being facetious.
Vandals.
Tbh, I am at a total loss as to what this thread and some of the comments are about.
Unborked link to
Native Appropriations
Whoops! Thanks tethys!
ha!
nice one!
Perhaps so. I took both your comment and sigurd jorsalfar’s as serious, because the “Fighting Irish” rebuttal is commonly used in all seriousness in these discussions.
Sorry for jumping down your throat, and sorry for jumping down sigurd jorsalfar’s.
Did someone seriously posit a “what about the whites?” response?
Seriously?!
On a post about “Redskins”?!?
“Whitey is as bad as the n-word!”
I have to apologize again for my ignorance, but I really want to thank everyone who recommended Native Appropriations. I am educating myself.
No. No one’s saying the nick name ‘Redskins’ is acceptable because there are teams named after white people. ‘Redskins’ is one of the most deplorable nick names in sports.
My comment was more serious than Chas’s. I don’t think it’s the number of teams named after native tribes versus the number of teams named after white tribes that determines whether there is racism going on in the naming, but WHO is doing the naming.
It’s one thing to name your team after your own tribe, another to name it after someone else’s, especially someone else you have treated abominably, and aren’t even naming correctly but derogatorily, e.g. ‘Redskins’, ‘Eskimos’, etc.
Btw, the Cleveland Browns are named after their first coach, Paul Brown.
Secondly, Vikings is arguably a Germanic name, albeit it an old one. But I think there’s an obvious reason why there are no other teams named after Germans, namely two world wars.
I completely agree that who is doing the naming is important. I’d listed the overwhelming disparity in numbers to point out that the appropriation of First Nations names is widespread and systemic.
@Sigurd:
I was more referring to Vole’s post, and perhaps reading a little uncharitably.
@Sigurd (hey!) and Anthony K:
My college’s team was the Shippensburg Raiders, their logo was a big pirate ship (their mascot was a… red-tailed hawk?) Some of the older commentators and some old logos called them the “Red Raiders” and the logo was still a boat, but then I saw someone with the original Red Raiders logo on one of those bleacher pillows – ah, used to be an Indian. Apparently they changed the logo in the 80s.
I don’t think that reason is so obvious.
It’s a Canadian team that plays from Montreal. This is a joke, right? Your reading comprehension sucks if you thought that Anthony K @ #24 wasn’t making a point regarding racist team names in response to the suggestion that reducing a player to an ethnicity (not really that even) in ‘honour’ of their being the first to be allowed to play (by white dudes) is somehow not actually racist.
Fucking reading. How does it work?
Betsy McCall <racist dicks
Lose the dicks; it’s not cool.
I think there’s an element of the ‘noble savage’ myth that was going on when the trend developed of naming teams after native tribes. World War I had a very different effect on these things than did the Sioux Wars.
There used to be a town in Canada called Berlin. It was founded by Germans and is to this day the main centre of Lutheranism and Lutheran theology in Canada, and still hosts the biggest Oktoberfest in Canada. But during WW1 it changed its name to Kitchener at the behest of its citizens, who were still largely descended from those original German settlers.
If an entire town can change its name in order to show its allegiance then I think it was a very simple matter for sports teams to do the same. If there ever was a ‘noble German’ myth on these shores, WW1 ended it.
@70, Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts: Physician, heal thyself!
Polling the majority to determine if a name is offensive to a minority? I don’t see the problem!
/sarcasm
Sigurd
Viking is more precisely Scandinavian Norse, and its originally a verb. Someone who goes viking is a Vikingr.
It makes sense that a predominately Scandinavian population would chose Vikings as their team name and mascot.
Referencing your own cultural heritage does not constitute racism.
Folk history?
I cannot even begin to correct all of the mistakes made here.
The place was not founded by Germans. And that’s not a technicality.
_____
That’s not what happened!
Damn my blockquoting proficiency today.
I’m pretty sure I made that very point in the very post you culled my quote from.
Although I wouldn’t make such a blanket statement that referencing your own cultural heritage does not constitute racism. It could well constitute racism toward someone else.
My alma mater’s teams are named after a “famous” killer of Native Americans, so I guess that’s even more horrible?
@79 Fortunately mine are all named after vicious animals or non-skin-tone colors.
@72: Seconded. This is straight noble-savage myth. Stereotypes about Indians being pure and close to the earth and not sissified-city-dwellers like whitey are the reason these name are so popular compared to other groups. It’s the same reason we have teams with name like Vikings and Spartans, but avoid any names based on industrialized societies. Also, as Jack Handey said, “I hope that in the future, Americans are thought of as a vicious, warlike, people, because I bet a lot of high schools would name their teams ‘The Americans.'”
Yes, the virulent racism of George Preston Marshall is well-documented. Strangely, though, in one of those ironic twists of history, he may have unintentionally contributed to the re-integration of the NFL
In 1933 he had the (less than brilliant) idea of moving the goalposts from the end line to the goal line to encourage the kicking game. This, of course, put the posts essentially in the field of play.
Twelve years later this came back to bite his ass in the championship game. His quarterback, Sammy Baugh, tried to throw a pass from his own end zone. It bounced off the goalpost and came to rest in the end zone, which, under the rules of the day was a safety and scored two points for the Redskins’ opponents, the Cleveland Rams. The Rams ended up winning 15-14.
After the season the Rams owner announced his intention to move the team to Los Angeles. Since this was roughly 2000 miles from any other NFL team at the time, there was a lot of resistance around the league. But since the second option was to disband the team, and having your defending champion go out of business doesn’t look too good, they were allowed to move. But the owners of the LA Coliseum had a condition before allowing the Rams to play their home games there–integrate the team with at least one black player. At least that’s how the legend goes (I think there might be some who dispute that condition being laid down). In any case, the Rams signed Kenny Washington–a college teammate of Jackie Robinson.
For those of you scoring at home, the play reads: Marshall moves goalposts, ball hits goalpost, Rams win, move to LA, integrate team.
The NFL moved the goalposts back where they belong in 1974.
re Sigurd@72:
Here in Massachusetts there is a town also named Berlin. After WWII they didn’t like being the name of the “Nazi” capital, so they insisted the pronunciation be changed to put the emphasis on the ‘ber’ rather than the ‘lin’ (the latter is how most ‘Mericans pronounce Germany’s ‘Berlin’) It’s difficult, in text, to emphasize the distinction, but it is there, and be sure to pronounce ‘Berlin’ (kinda like ‘burrlin’) when in Berlin,MA.
Back to the subject; YES, most football (i.e. sports) team names are racist. No excuse to say, “if ‘Fighting Irish’ is okay, then why is ‘Fighting Sioux’ so bad?” Why not just use animals, i.e. Hawks, Eagles, Penguins, Ducks, etc. (PETA, don’t flame me!) or some such? Racist is racist; false equivalence is still false equivalence.
feralboy12@82
So, you would say this is a literal case of Goalpost moving that just so happened to bite someone in the ass? :haw:
….
I’ll show myself back to the thunderdome…
What I don’t understand is how, in this day and age a team could so blatantly ignore the massive marketing opportunities inherent in changing their name. New uniforms! New logos! New T-Shirts to sell!
Seriously, hold a contest amongst the local elementary school kids and have a presentation ceremony where all the little moppets who picked the new name get free tickets and a replica jersey and probably become fans for life ffs!
Also, the Cleveland Indians getting their name from Louis Francis Sockalexis is considered a myth by serious baseball historians.
http://www.aistm.org/staurowsky.sockalexis.htm
Re: 11 Caine, Fleur du mal 12 June 2013 at 11:05 am (UTC -5)
Go fuck yourself, Caine. Sick and tired of your Caine uber alles opinions. No one can disagree. You must get veto.
It’s stupid.
The history of one team is not the history of another.
A DC Councilman has been lobbying the team to change to the Redtails, as a (genuine, respectful) nod to the Tuskegee Airmen.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/redskins-name-change-redtails_n_3186761.html
I can not be the only one who would buy a T-shirt or jersey of the (City or School Name Goes Here) Ignorant Americans.
And just to be clear, Anthony K’s list at 43 is incomplete. I grew up in the midwest at one high school with the Warriors as a mascot, my kids now go to another high school in the northeast with the Warriors as a mascot, and neither are on that list.
If you’d like a little humor and entertainment with your social learning, there’s a funny and pointed 1491s video about the appropriation of Indian/Native American culture. I’m also quite fond of their Learning words video.
I think a huge part of the problem is that the majority white population doesn’t think it’s racist because they don’t think Indians really even exist any more. In school, you learn about them right up until the time that they got forced onto reservations, and then they disappear entirely from mention. According to Wikipedia, there are fewer than 3 million, and they are mostly concentrated in a very few states. My guess is that most Americans have only the vaguest image in their minds of Indian as “somebody who claims their great grandmother was a Cherokee princess”, and therefore think it’s no big deal to slander the name.
Pro teams, at least, ought to just quit fucking around and take on sponsorship names, as seems bound to happen. Seattle Boeings, New York Citibanks, Pittsburgh Alcoas, Dallas Exxon-Mobils, etc.
Crissa,
What are you talking about?
If you looked at the comments Caine quoted, she was bothered by people talking about “Sioux tribe”.
… which is mentioned nowhere in Caine’s comment
But don’t let me stand in the way of your personal grudge or whatever.
I remember the first time I heard complaints about the Redskins name, I thought “It’s intended to be a compliment, for God’s sake”.
And it was as @72 points out
>
I said, “Thinking it’s an insult implies that there is something wrong with being a Native American.”
And my friends said, “So you’d be okay calling a team the New York Jews”.
Sometimes you have to hit me upside the head before I get it. But that did it.
So yeah, lets get rid of all the team names that refer to groups of humans–including the bloody Fighting Irish.
It has been suggested that they could keep the name “The Redskins” as long as their mascot was prominently changed to be a potato. Somehow I don’t think they’d go for that.
@otrame
I don’t think we need to get rid of human-group team names that are also occupations, like Warriors, Knights, Flyers, etc.
@carlie
Over at Pandagon, someone suggested they change it to the Pigskins, which allows them to keep the “Skins” nickname and references a particularly good team year (apparently).
Crissa:
Which tribe are you enrolled in, again?
Crissa
So you think that being subjected to racism is AOK, and Caine should just not notice it?
Yeah, I believe it is you who should be fucking off right after you apologize.
LOL! The post didn’t mention the actual name of the team, and I couldn’t figure out what he was talking about until I got to the comments. I guess I am really unattached to football at all. I never saw the appeal.
Chas may well be right about the Montreal Canadiens.
Canadiens has historically been a term used to refer specifically to French Canadians in Quebec, and the Montreal hockey team started out primarily with a fanbase, IIRC, in the anglophone areas of Montreal.
Though that isn’t true anymore and hasn’t been so for a long time, of course.
Frank (stupidify America with a poll or focus group) Luntz is at it again huh. Last I remember he was doing focus groups to determine which racist anti-Obama films to send to swing voters during the last election.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/24/us/politics/strident-anti-obama-messages-flood-key-states.html?_r=0
What a right wing tool.
I look forward to the US Army fielding a sports team called the My Lai Marauders.
Actually, the Montreal Canadiens have a nickname: “Les Habs” (that’s what “h” inside the C stands for). Habs is short for “habitents”, which may be roughly translated as “French Settlers” — maybe “Pioneers”.
Doesn’t seem insulting.
Overall I think the most degrading logo in team sports is Chief Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians. If you are unsure about that, make a picture in your head of, say, the “Birmingham(Alabama)” Negroes with a big, flapping-lipped, nappy-headed shiny-toothed grinning Uncle Tom face emblazoned everywhere. I really don’t know how Chief Wahoo has survived all these years.
Those of you who think the local name isn’t at all comparable to the DC team’s name might want to learn a little of our local history first. This calm, quiet farm country (now) was once the scene of one of the most awful wars with the Indians — look up the Dakota War of 1862. Point of Minnesota ‘pride’: the largest mass hanging in US history took place in Mankato, MN: 38 Indians publicly killed for a brutal war that burned across this part of the country, with atrocities on both sides. Opportunists cut off bits of the dead men’s skin and sold them as souvenirs. And those 38 dead were just the ones Lincoln didn’t pardon: something like 280 other Indians had their sentences commuted to imprisonment. Half of those died thanks to the miserable conditions they were kept in.
What started the war? Mass starvation and desperation, and an agent whose response was “if they are hungry let them eat grass or their own dung”.
The government treated them as subhuman, the white locals killed, executed, starved, and chased them out of their homelands, and now we name sports teams after them.
Otrame pointed out the jarring idea of calling a sports team the New York Jews. It’s worse. Imagine a soccer team called the Auschwitz Jews. Sorta the same thing.
If they got rid of the name, it would instantly become part of the GOP platform, and GOP candidates would have a new litmus test to pass by their teabagger constituency to show that they are true conservatives. Seriously.
Crissa
As a matter of fact, yeah, Caine should get a fucking veto on this. Caine is one of the people getting slapped in the face with this name. The Fighting Sioux has some impact on all of Indian Country–as it’s part of a whole complex of issues when it comes to attitudes toward NDNs–but the greatest and most important impact is on the people who were branded with that name.
Unless you are one of the peoples affected by this name, the best you can ever be is an ally. Even if you’re Indian yourself, it’s not your fucking battle beyond assisting as an ally. The peoples affected by the name are the ones whose voices matter and need to be heard.
And you’re sure as hell not acting like any kind of ally I’ve ever seen.
@36 vole
I can’t imagine anybody in scandinavia being offended if some sports team calls themselves “vikings”, some would probably approve.
Crissa:
I’d forgotten…
You authored the Cliffs Notes: How to be a complete Asshole.
Ever think for a second that Caine has a legitimate concern here? Or is there some other reason for your idiotic outburst?
The second question was rhetorical.
Much of the racism problem comes from putdowns promoted by opposing teams’ fans. I once told someone at a party that I’d been working on computer problems for a Planned Parenthood clinic in Tallahassee, and he shocked the whole room by shouting, “Sterilize the Seminoles!”
~40 years ago Stanford U decided to rename their team from something racially obnoxious, and asked the students to nominate a replacement label. IIRC, the administration rejected the most-voted for monicker, the Robber Barons. (sigh)
Considering all the teams named after local industries (Oilers, Packers, Steelers, …), why doesn’t ND call their guys the Frackers?
Thumper:
No, it is not. This is one of those subjects where most people don’t know the first fucking thing about, so here’s a bit of advice: shut the fuck up and educate yourself. “Sioux” is name which means enemy. The whole damn business with ‘Sioux’ is a clusterfuck, and yes, some plains people or tribes use it, however, the bulk do not. I certainly do not use it, I’m Oglala Lakota, not Sioux.
This whole fucking thread, outside a few people, is utterly infuriating. It’s so great to know all the white people have a bead on this situation and know just how I and other Indians should feel about things. All of you can take a short fucking walk off of a tall cliff.
Tethys:
Thank you. And thanks to you, TMM, Mythbri, Beatrice, Anthony K and others who are fighting the good fight on this one. I’m out.
Crissa:
I wrote one comment before I left to go into town today. One fucking comment, Crissa. I didn’t even have much to say, being disgusted at the immediate whitewashing. I don’t know where in the fuck you got your twisted notion that no one is allowed to disagree with me. People disagree with me all the time, and they don’t magically end up in the cornfield, you grudge filled twit. It’s not my fault people don’t like you, Crissa. That’s on you. Try posting on topic in the future, would you?
This whole thread is an object lesson in the value of shutting the fuck up and listening.
For what it’s worth, etymonline.com has:
Sioux:
group of North American Indian tribes, 1761, from North American French, short for Nadouessioux, sometimes said to be from Ojibway (Algonquian) Natowessiwak (plural), literally “little snakes,” from nadowe “Iroquois” (literally “big snakes”). Another explanation traces it to early Ottawa (Algonquian) singular /na:towe:ssi/ (plural /na:towe:ssiwak/) “Sioux,” apparently from a verb meaning “to speak a foreign language” [Bright]. In either case, a name given by their neighbors; the people’s name for themselves is Dakota, literally “allies.”
As Pierce pointed out Stanford changed in the early 70s (pretty much a decision by the then president Lyman after the Native American student group talked to him and one he stuck to despite a lot of alumni pressure). We ended up with ‘Cardinal’ (the color not the bird or job position) as the team name; the tree is officially the band mascot not the school mascot (and the band can’t even decide what type of tree). The Native American student group is very active (the largest student run event on campus is their Stanford Powwow every Mother’s day). Only the older alumni still mutter and wear red feathers.
This American Life episode Little War on the Prairie covers some of this history. (Links to listen or read the transcript). I’m not sure it mentioned the origin of the name”Sioux”, but it does cover the very shamefull way those native to the pre-statehood MN area were treated. Oddly it just happened to come up on my podcast list last week as I was visiting the area.
Carrisa,
At this point an apology to Caine might be a good idea. And for the record I’d rather face adversity next to a person of Caines character any fucking day. Even if she metaphorically rips my head off for saying so.
That annoys the crap out of me. It would be like Advertising Age voting Aunt Jemima the best logo. The Hockey News has, sadly, never been terribly progressive.
@90 Chas
The Packers are one step ahead of you.
It would have been just too perfect. Ah fail yore sigh.. (I used to be a roofer at Synergy.)
hah. Good one.
Given that they could then use the taunt “Frack you” to the opposing team, it’s a gold mine waiting to happen.
In the interest of fair play for NDSU: They’ve been trying to dump the name for years. The problem is that the ND Legislature kept passing laws demanding they keep the name–and when they finally stopped, the “fans” put it on the ballot! (It failed, but they want to try again….)
This StarTribune story has a summary of the saga: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/159092885.html
Bloody ridiculous. And the Sioux supporters have literally no argument beyond “CHANGE BAD!”
I knew that ‘Sioux’ was the wrong name for the group that includes the Lakotas; I did not know that it was derogatory. Wow.
‘Washington Generals’ would probably not be the best new name for the team; it’s probably trademarked anyway. ‘Insiders’, ‘Lobbyists’, ‘Bureaucrats’ and ‘Representatives’ probably wouldn’t be too popular. How about some imagery from the Revolutionary War, like ‘Volunteers’ or ‘Regulars’? ‘Bluecoats’ would be appropriate, since George chose that color, but there might be a lack of enthusiasm in certain quarters.
Something of an update:
http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/06/12/2145591/nfl-commissioner-redskins-name-stands-for-strength-courage-pride-and-respect/?mobile=wp
He looks qualified to define that distinction.
@Tethys
Oh; I did not know that. At school I was taught about the “Sioux” nation, which was apparently composed of many smaller tribes but banded together frequently for various purposes, war being noteable among them, who lived on the central plains. I was totally unaware of the etymology :-/ thanks for filling the gap in my knowledge. I’ll not be using “Sioux” any more.
@zhuge
Put like that I suppose it is problematic :-/ Sorry I didn’t see it before.
@ Caine
I’m sorry my ignorance offended you; I was completely unaware of the etymology and was under the impression it was a genuine First nation name, rather than one forced on you. Even if it was genuine, the stereotype of being “Warlike” is still problematic, and it’s not cool to name yourself after an ethnic group which is not your own anyway, and I’m sorry I didn’t see that before.
Basically, sorry I was a douche.
bad Jim
It used to be the Washington Senators, actually.
Did I miss it? But no mention of “Canuck”? Not necessarily a derogatory term, but occasionally used in phrases such as “dumb Canuck”. Canadians, all ethnicities, don’t seem to dislike the term. Go Vancouver!
I’m sorry, but what makes you think UND doesn’t have the same kind of history? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Engelstad
pretty sure that’s not for you to decide.
clueless twit can’t tell the difference between the dominant group naming a team after their own history, and a bunch of racists naming a team after an inaccurate label for an oppressed people because they wanted a logo of something that kills bisons (AKA NDSU)
you’re either a bullshitter or more ignorant than I ever imagined anyone being, given that cardinals are birds (and a kind of color).
dude. there’s no such thing as “the Sioux tribe”. Different Lakota/Dakota tribes and members have different opinions about the name. Because they’re not a hivemind, or an undifferentliated “other”.
*raised eyebrow* what the fuck does NDSU have to do with this? NDSU’s mascot is a bison
@31. Tethys :
Thanks for that bit of info – like others here, I had no idea that was the case either and will refrain from using the term from now on.