Here we go again. The Adria Richards story has settled into a couple of common themes, and Ars echoes the conventional wisdom. I’m very disappointed in this lazy editorial.
First, look at this nonsense:
Let’s start by spreading the blame where it’s deserved: on nearly everyone involved. The “Boy’s Club” mentality is thankfully no longer acceptable in tech, but it’s still common—some people have actually described tech to me as “men’s work.”
It’s no longer acceptable, but it’s common? Huh. Somebody didn’t think about what they were writing. We’ll just announce that the problem is nonexistent, while sweeping the reality of the situation aside.
But I’d like to point out something sneakier. Here’s the common message:
“Forking a repo” and “big dongles” must rank somewhere around “0.5: classless brospeak” on the seismic scale of harassing/menacing behavior toward women. While such sexually inappropriate comments are completely unnacceptable in professional settings (to many men as well as women), neither merits firing unless someone had a history of making unwelcome comments.
I think we all agree 100% that no one ought to have been fired over this incident. The major villains here are the two companies that used this event as an excuse to axe a couple of employees.
But notice what else everyone is saying: what the two guys did was trivial and minor, “‘0.5: classless brospeak’ on the seismic scale of harassing/menacing behavior toward women”. Keep that in mind for a moment. That kind of thing has been said a lot.
Yet these two men don’t get all of the blame. One recurring theme on message boards and chat rooms, including our own, is that while Richards had every right to report the behavior of the two men to conference organizers, snapping their photograph and posting it publicly to “Twitter shame” them was a step too far (speaking of a step too far, there are other, more repugnant recurring themes among commenters, too). They’re right; going public was not the only way Richards could get a relatively minor issue addressed. She could have confronted the two men or she could have gone straight to PyCon. Her actions only escalated the situation.
It’s a “relatively minor issue”. OK, let’s go along with that for a moment…let’s say it really was an inconsequential, negligible faux pas by the two guys. But if that’s the case, what is this bullshit?
…snapping their photograph and posting it publicly to “Twitter shame” them was a step too far…
Was it something to be ashamed of, or not? Was it a horrible, embarrassing thing to publicize, or was it a “relatively minor issue”? You don’t get to have it both ways. Either it was too damaging to make public, or it was a slight affront that shouldn’t seriously affect any of the participants — it was a minute impropriety that was perfectly reasonable to mention on a casual, conversational medium like Twitter.
This is what’s really pissing me off right now: the flagrant dishonesty of all these people having the vapors over someone posting a photo on Twitter and saying someone’s behavior was “not cool”. Jesus. Have they ever fucking used Twitter? It’s non-stop chatter — just today I’ve been accused of being a “Nazi” and of being “evil”. Please, Ars Technica, do your tut-tut routine right now over all the naughty people ‘Twitter shaming’ right and left. Please also express your sadness that thousands of tweets are going up right now ‘Twitter shaming’ Adria Richards in far more outrageous terms than “not cool.”
Are people seriously proposing that somehow Twitter should be policed for manners, and we should start wagging our fingers at people who dare to rebuke others via that medium? If so, half my correspondents are going to have to shut up. This is ridiculous. Richards’ comment was minor, was appropriate, and was addressing a real issue in a reasonable way.
And then there’s this:
In a blog post explaining the story in her own words, Richards wrote about how, over the course of the jokes, she moved from “I was going to let it go” to “I realized I had to do something.” The moment of decision came after seeing a picture of a young girl on the main stage who had attended a Young Coders workshop. “She would never have the chance to learn and love programming,” Richards wrote, “because the ass clowns behind me would make it impossible for her to do so.”
Clearly, this is hyperbole. These two guys weren’t going to prevent anybody from doing anything. Suddenly, a couple off-color jokes represented all the serious forces that can hold women back from tech careers. While denouncing bad behavior certainly has its place, proportion is important—and this approach to these jokes simply makes it harder to have a sincere discussion about misogyny and men’s/women’s issues in the workplace.
It’s only hyperbole if you misinterpret it. No, I doubt Richards thought these two guys were going to run up on the stage and slap awards off the podium and denounce the young girl being recognized. Richards was referring to a culture that considers those kinds of off-color remarks reasonable in a professional setting. Remember, “it’s still common”. That is what inhibits women from participating in these opportunities.
We’re living in a world where those off-color jokes are dismissed as “classless brospeak”, not worth making a fuss over, while someone tweeting a picture of someone engaging in “classless brospeak” is a disproportionate response, and “makes it harder to have a sincere discussion about misogyny and men’s/women’s issues in the workplace”.
But unwanted sexual innuendo doesn’t? Both men and women make jokes about sex, of course, and there’s a tricky line to be drawn between what’s appropriate and what isn’t, but one of the things I’m seeing all over the place is that in the conversation about where to draw the line, women are expected to shut up; that when they do speak up, however mildly, and say “not cool” or “guys, don’t do that”, boom, the guyverse explodes and denounces the damned uppity woman in either the most furious and violent terms possible, or with polite little suggestions that maybe they should be quieter next time.
But you know, the latter is almost as bad as the former. It’s the privilege of the majority to use politeness to maintain the status quo, while it’s a necessity for the minority to assert the right to offend.
Because people rarely think of a penis as a sex organ. Shit, that is usually overlooked in favor of it being a sewage unit.
But you already said that you don’t understand what sexism is or is not, so why do you keep saying this?
John,
Does your dad own this golf course?
Can I call you Chaz or is That-popped-collar-douche-everyone-avoids-like-a-case-of-the-clap work better for you?
Also, when you brag online about things people can’t verify, like your bank account, dick size, IQ or SAT score (‘cuz all the grown ups are so wowed by your SATs, amirite?) people know you are really saying, “I know I have the wit and likability of an ass pimple so I better try bragging”.
That doesn’t really work online. The things you use to distract people from how utterly repellent your personality is irl, are meaningless here. What you bring to the thread is in what you type; Your thoughts. All you have to show us is the contents of your mind. What you’ve shown us is that it is a sewer in there. I mean, “I may be a rapist, but hey…I’ve got stuff!” is not the utterance of a decent human being. What we all know is that we can leave this thread at any time and never have to view that slimy, fetid place again. Whereas you are trapped there. I don’t care if you’ve got a stable of polo ponies. I wouldn’t be you for anything.
Maybe, if you work as hard on yourself as the people who have taken the time to try to shed some light on the festering heap that is your thought process have worked on themselves and you keep at it for a long time, you might get out of that sewer. But you’ll have to stop whinging and bitching and raping and being a sexist, classist, entitled shithead first.
Now I’m 56. I’ve never been as rich as Jay Jay, but I’ve always gotten by and never really had to suffer. I saved enough to get all 3 kids through college, though, and all 3 are intelligent, interesting, honest people of whom I am immensely proud.
Damn. I WIN AGAIN!!!
Oh my, that’s bad. Oh well, I’m sure you have a 3 digit IQ.
I see context if not intent in that example.
Mentioning penis and fucking isn’t sexist. Gee, where the fuck do you think otherwise? You haven’t proven you are right. Which makes you wrong. Your claim is *floosh* dismissed without evidence. And will be dismissed every time you claim an unevidenced OPINION.
And now I’m thinking of the “Smell The Glove” cover discussion from Spinal Tap. And Markku is Nigel Tufnel.
But PZ, behold that majesty of the sexist and racist dudebro and tremble!
So Markku Hänninen is yet another one who thinks that, since ‘dongle’ is a valid technology term that it cannot be used in a double entendre sex joke?
That’s not sexist. It’s sexy!
Oh FFS!
Sexual harassment, ie. making dongle jokes in earshot of a woman who is making a professional presentation about making the field more welcoming to women, is clearly a sexist thing to do.
Why are you having such a hard time understanding basic human interaction?
PZ:
Ugh, the stuff which has gotten through is bad enough. I’m thankful for your spam trap.
Intent is not magic.
@Goodbye Enemy Janine
Just most of them, Will Smith for example is more successful then me, for the time being at least.
@carlie
Then you are delusional.
Wrong context and very probable intent shown. If i knew you, knew you weren’t homosexual, i would take it as joke or statement of fact. We go in sauna naked here so we don’t really have to describe our penises between friends as we all have seen them.
Markku, answer the question: since you have already admitted that you don’t know the first thing about sexism, why do you continue to offer your opinion about what is or is not sexist?
Because he doesn’t want to. He just wants to make dick jokes wherever and whenever and damn you lousy feminists for ruining it for him!
John, you’re life is so awesome that you spend your time bragging to strangers while you make racist slurs on the internet?
Pullith the other one, Sonny. It hath bells upon it.
Hee. But I think, “Pull thou the other one” would be more correct.
/not a scholar of archaic English
Sorry i’m getting behind with the answers as there are so many comments. I’ll try to address them as fast as i can.
I think dongle means penis, but i do not think joke containing word dongle or penis is necessarily sexual or sexist.
The way you represent the situation requires either intent which is not shown, or context which is not shown either. Just because there happens to be such presentation going it doesn’t mean it is in anyway related. People tend to ask evidence here, i haven’t seen any evidence of this. I’ve made this point before but i think people apply their own context to the situation and that is not necessarily correct call.
Nightshadequeen, i agree with the position that intent is not magic but you still need to show context if we leave intent out of it. Just including word penis in your joke doesn’t make it sexual/sexist.
I am feeling charitable, so I will assume that Markku simply does not understand that sexism is normalized in our culture. He has not yet taken the red pill.
This is why I say you don’t read. Obviously you haven’t even read Adria Richards’ account, which means you were lying when you said you did. Because that is PRECISELY the context in which she objected to the dongle/forking jokes.
Own up to lying, you despicable asshole, and apologize for being wrong about sexism. Apologize for not bothering to inform yourself about an important subject before offering your opinion about it.
@Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty
Yes, I broke into a house took pictures of a few of their things and stole someones bank statement or w/e the fuck its called.
I posted a picture of Car title, 10,000 dollar pool table, 78k account and 2k laptop, as soon as my desktop windows updates I will post my btc wallet worth another 75kish.
I have posted nothing racist guy who’s calling me racist, I will transfer you 100$ if you can show me something racist I posted or tried to post. Think about it you will be able to redistribute 100$ of my hard earned wealth to what ever you want. I bet it wont be to feed starving kids in Africa.
Your*
Tsk,tsk. I must have gotten distracted by how much fun I imagine life would be as a racist, raping teet-suckler with a REALLY COOL LAPTOP, YO.
I mean once everything in life was handed to me, I know I’d use my time to mock people for not being as spoiled a little shit sack as I was. Then for extra fun, I’d go brag to homeless children about what Daddum’s bought me for lunch and tell them that I’m better than them for having been born to different parents. Gosh, that would be personally fulfilling and not the saddest thing I ever heard of at all!
I speak about sexism as it is defined in general, not as it is used by you. I guess your research people are the same people that connect term rape culture with every single action taken by people even if those actions were same in different context.
@Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty
Most of this was posted during a few lectures that I would normally just sleep though. Having access to test answers before hand makes college really easy.
John, can you post a picture of a friend? A friend who would really be there for you if you needed it, not because you paid them to or they owed you big time, someone who would get up in the middle of the night and drive a few hours to take care of you and be there because they like you and not keep score and hold that over you for the next time they need a favor? If you think you can…. are you sure? You seem to use your money to try to get things, so do you really know that any of your friends would be your friends without all the monetary benefits?
And he becomes even a little more repulsive.
@Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty
Show me an example of my racism and you will get 100 bucks or you can have me donate to what ever feminist charity you want. I am many things but racist isn’t one of them.
John, happy people don’t try to win the favor of others by posting pics of their bank statements.
That thing you heard wizzing by your head. That was my point.
My point is that whatever shit you got, don’t make up for the fact that you can’t engage with anyone on any level without trying to rely on said shit to make you look better than the disgusting trog you are.
So let me say again. You have shown yourself to be impoverished of even human decency. It doesn’t cost much, but it takes effort. That allows everyone here to see exactly what a lazy spoon fed jackass you are.
You couldn’t do for yourself. You could not walk ten steps, much less a mile in anyone’s shoes here.
I also want to remind you that the internet is forever. Google cache will remember you, you rapist scum.
Liar. You said that you talk about sexism using the dictionary definition. I pointed out that sexism is a complex sociological phenomenon and is studied by sociologists, so if you want to make intelligent comments about sexism, you better check out what the sociologists have to say about it. The fact that you refuse to shows that you are intellectually lazy and not actually interested in learning anything. It also shows that your opinion is worthless. Show us that you understand the basics of sexism, BEYOND what it says in the dictionary, and THEN we can entertain discussion about what is or is not sexist.
Sentence does not parse. But I will point out that “my research people” are the EXPERTS. Do you always disregard what people who know more about a subject than you have to say about it? Or is it only concerning matters of sexism? If the latter is true, then that’s an example of sexism right there. However, if you apply your stupidity universally, and ALWAYS prefer to substitute your unevidenced and uninformed opinion for the opinions of those who’ve actually spend years and decades researching the subject, then you’re not sexist, just incredibly fucking stupid.
I said earlier in my posts that she probably though them as sexual/sexist as she overheard them, it doesn’t mean that they were. It is just her account of the situation. Richards also thought that forking repo was done in sexual way and it probably wasn’t. Maybe she was wrong with the dongle joke as well? She thought herself as a hero and made wrong call, it happens.
That came up earlier already, context is clear and probably intent as well. Different from dongle joke.
Bitches always lie, huh?
That, or bitches are just too stupid to know what sexism is. But Markku knows what sexism is. He looked it up in the dictionary!
If you looked up “global warming” or “climate change” in the dictionary, Markku, do you think that would qualify you to enter an opinion between climatologists, science journalists, and lay people who are highly informed on the subject and offer your opinion on what does or does not constitute climate change?
Why or why not?
You are aware that PZ Myers (the owner of this blog) has stated that many of your comments have been captured by his spam filter.
But this does not speak well for you not being a racist.
Janine:
JayJay:
Racist at most.
Asshole at least.
Their intent was to make Adria feel uncomfortable and intimidated. Both of the men have admitted that their behavior was sexist and inappropriate.
I gave you the exact context, which is taken directly from Adria’s account of the events. Note that neither of the men involved dispute Adria’s account of the chain of events.
So Markku, why are you disputing the facts of the matter?
Oh look, John’s signed in through Facebook. I wonder if he lists his college anywhere on it?
Markku
I don’t have time to explain this to you, but here are some resources:
A complete account of the events.
Chilly Climate
Feminism 101
They do have somekind of sexism creation formula that i can use to calculate if the sentence was sexist in that situation or not ? Do tell.
btw. being civil doesn’t cost a thing.
Do we have evidence of their intent? What we do have is evidence that that was the EFFECT of their actions. And, as Markku would know if he had bothered to inform himself any further than looking up “sexism” in the dictionary, sexism does not require intent on the part of the people doing it. People can be, and frequently are, sexist, without intending it.
John Jackson:
Sure, sure, Cupcake. You aren’t racist just like you aren’t sexist like you aren’t the sort of privilege blind ass who would rather rape than go for enthusiastic consent.
PZ can be trusted to know racism when he sees it, especially when it gets caught in his spam filter, as he’s the one who set it up in the first place. As for you being able to see past your own nose? I don’t think so.
John, PZ has credibility here. He earned it himself.
You have none.
You can’t even have Daddy buy you some.
You’re not too bright, are ya? I have a feeling that you weren’t taken care of out of largess, but rather out of pity. You’re like some pet they knew couldn’t make it alone, but didn’t want to stay home soiling the rugs. Yes, I just bet they don’t beat your door down to see you much at all. No wonder you crave our attention and need to impress us so much.
Context, motherfucker. Learn the goddamn word. It isn’t just the sentence, the wording, the syntax, or anything else. It is what is said, where it is said, and the context in which it is said.
You earn civility, by actually doing your part in understanding the very issue we are discussing. You have failed at that, and been repeatedly told why.
Fuck off.
Hmmm, golly, I wonder how you would find that out? HEY! I have a brilliant idea! Maybe you could do a little RESEARCH, you know, something a tad bit more involved than looking up the definition in the dictionary!
False. Being civil to you robs me of the satisfaction, however slight, in demonstrating my contempt for the amazing level of intellectual laziness you display.
Markku Hänninen:
The sexual innuendo IS the joke. You already said you understand this:
Why is it so important to deny that the comments were sexist? So you can feel comfortable blaming Adria Richards?
@carlie
If not he’s said he’s on their net now so not hard if someone can see his ip amiright?
Had you read my posts, you’d see that i require intent AND/OR context. And reasonable context isn’t that you just thought about your dead dog and someone told dog joke. Or that you thought about all girls in tech industry and decided to be hero.
@Goodbye Enemy Janine
You were the one who said pesky minority’s. But it is a fact I have more wealth at 19 then most minoritys, I have more wealth then most Americans, because like 40% of Americans have negative wealth for w/e reason. Facts are not racist, they are facts.
PZ you want to call me a racist that’s fine but can you seriously not back up it up? I guess in your world view slandering someone you don’t like is Ok! To think you were trying to comment on my values lol. Are you at least man enough to admit you were wrong to call me a racist?
Ing – probably so. If it’s not a private pseudo-college prep school that just caters to trust funds, they might be quite interested in how blithely he’s discussing his cheating habits.
Carlie:
:shakes head: This is becoming a tell, too. I do wish I could check it out, might be right interesting.
Does this bother you or something?
By the way, you’re intellectually lazy. Intellectually lazy people do not get respect around here.
You know, I almost feel sorry that we won’t be able to follow the career of young John Jackson and watch him develop his coke habit and alcoholism, the gambling addiction, DUIs, bankruptcy, failures…. Maybe he’ll meet Lindsay Lohan in rehab!
Just her account?!
markku
You need to stop doubting the facts of the matter (as stated by Adria and confirmed by the men), and question why you think Adria’s account of events is a triviality which you can ignore.
Sexism…..you’re soaking in it.
This… to the nth degree.
Smart people are always using their Facebook account to make admissions of crimes, brag about how awesome they are and posting their personal documents for the perusal of strangers!
I bet his place of employment and his parents are listed there too.
*snicker*
@Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty
Provide one example of my racism pleasseee. And I will leave and never come back and donate 200 (I upped it) to whatever/whoever you want. Come on PZ, show you are not just a libelous clown, or admit you made a mistake in calling me racist, even I admitted I was wrong in this thread.
QFMFT
:sigh: Y’know, this is a tell, too – one of the unconscious sexism absorbed in every day life. They are women. Adults, individuals, human beings, professionals. You can’t even manage the slightest bit of respect by referring to them as women.
I’ll just go ahead and assume you don’t get this, so – if you were talking about men in tech, which way would you have written that sentence:
“Or that you thought about all boys in tech industry” OR “Or that you thought about all men in tech industry”?
When you are 13 it is, when you are an adult, you can take matters from several perspectives.
Because i think it weren’t. I think some of the terms are used too loosely and then when you cry wolf, no one reacts. Someone already called me some troll because of this but i’m not. I think many terms are used too loosely in many areas including gender studies, politics, crime or these kinds of situations.
And what am i blaming her for?? Even if it wasn’t sexual or sexist, i think she had the right to complain. And even if it was sexist/sexual, i think she shouldn’t have posted tweet pic.
Message me on face book and I will friend you! . GO for it bro all the info you are looking for is right there.
I’m not interested in your wager. You’re a thoroughly disgusting person and PZ doesn’t post racist slurs here. But you know what? He doesn’t have to.
Kid, you are the one here begging for attention and approval like Oliver Twist. PZ doesn’t owe you jackshit and neither do I. You get no benefit of the doubt. Deal with it.
John,
No.
Don’t need to. Don’t want to.
No, you speak of sexism as defined by you, and in the general/legal sense. Why do MRA fuckwits always get this backwards? /rhetorical
Evidenceless claim *floosh* dismissed as self-serving fuckwittery. Until then, it sexist until proven otherwise. From legitimate sources outside of yourself.
Who gives a shit about your OPINON? That is your problem. You think your OPINION trumps all others without presenting any evidence to back up your claims. Making them *floosh* sewage. Typical of somebody trolling, not discussing.
Who gives a shit about your unevidenced OPINION? We don’t. Nobody here fives a fig about it. Except you.
Point miss is something John is great at.
No one wants to dig into the decay of your personal life for details. We just enjoy mocking you for being so clueless as to do the things you are doing while claiming superior intelligence. I’d call you a halfwit, but it would be too generous by far.
Sally
I am speaking from my own many experiences of male asshats making these kinds of comments whenever I am speaking, or when I am being recognized for excellent work, or when I am doing my job and they feel the need to remind me that I am a female they would like to fuck.
The purpose of those comments is always to intimidate and remind the target of the comments that you are nothing but a piece of ass to them aka objectification.
$200 dollars could feed a African village for at least a month or maybe save some kid dying of malaria. This is hilarious you are going to allow an African Family to starve and possible die of malaria. PZ admit you were wrong for calling me a racist with zero evidence to back it up and and I will still donate 50.
Kid, I am completely anonymous nothing is going to connect any of what I have said to a real person, honestly I don’t know why i’m here I proved my point long ago, now I just want to see if PZ will be man enough to admit he made a baseless accusation with nothing to back it up.
Meant to mention earlier – Jackie, I have this hand-carved internet I’d like to give you for all your kickass comments.
Carlie:
Indeed. Who thought we’d have to do Internet 101 as well? John, you had better re-think your career plans as a white collar criminal, you’d suck at it.
I hope you do not take everything as 100%, blogs, tweets or otherwise. Furthermore like i have said before, the guys account doesn’t really verify anything but inappropriate behavior. Show me otherwise? The guy even says that the forking repo things was totally different from what Richards understood. How is that confirmation?
Furthermore, if not for her blog post and its tone, i’d accept much more willingly all she said. But the blog post was pure righteousness oozing from every part. She has told about her past earlier and noted it even her own blog post. Is it so big jump to take that one could think that she made bad call about it? She thought she was not only correcting the situation but taking steps to correct it for all the women. It seemed almost religious issue to her. Maybe she just overheard jokes that had potentially sexist wording in them and made wrong conclusions. Maybe she thinks every joke with word penis in it in some form is sexual and sexist?
To summarize, her own justifications and blog post made her look more overly sensitive which could easily lead to bad call about the issue.
Define “too loosely.” Explain why we should trust YOUR uninformed, inaccurate interpretation of “loosely applied” as opposed to the interpretation of people who’ve spent decades studying the phenomenon.
So, you think that if women talk about sexism TOO MUCH, people will stop listening. Do you have evidence for this opinion? My guess: no. You are pulling it out of your ass because you think your uninformed opinion should be given the same level of credibility as we give to those who’ve spent decades studying the phenomenon. Do please prove me wrong.
Also note that your characterization of Adria Richards “crying wolf” is predicated on everyone accepting that she either lied about what happened, or that you know better than she does about what does or does not constitute sexism. You need to back up and provide evidence either that Richards lied, or provide good reasoning and evidence that we should trust YOUR opinion over hers about whether a situation that SHE, not you, experienced, had an element of sexism. You’ve done neither of those things, so your characterization of Adria Richards “crying wolf” is dismissed.
Did that hurt your feelings? Good. For the record, I think you’re quite sincere in your stupidity, arrogance, and intellectual laziness. I.e., not a classic troll, just an asshole using trolling techniques.
Except you don’t know a damn thing about gender studies, since all you’ve ever done is look up “sexism” in the dictionary, so your opinion is worthless and dismissable.
Yes, that’s mightily specific and convincing.
Quick! Convene the heads of departments of all the gender studies departments, political studies departments, criminology departments, and let them know that Markku thinks that they’re applying their terms of art too loosely! Whatever the fuck that means.
Markku, you are being so boring. Why do you care? Why are you so invested in believing that she made a “bad call”?
In other words, you were drawing on your Bayesian priors to make an estimation about their intent. Fair enough.
Do you know what tor is, how about how IPs work?
Carlie, isn’t it funny that Mr. Smartypants has to be told those things like a fresh out of the package noob?
I just realized that he’s been discussing underage drinking too. It must have slipped my mind while it was boggling over his admission that he was too lazy to be bothered with quibbles like consent.
He’s truly a consummate professional.
Markku.
Maybe you should read about the whole incident before you open your uninformed mouth again.
John
Still not impressed. Try again.
Ok, PZ gona double it again 400 if you can back up your claim of racism.
Or at least be big enough to admit you made a mistake.
Show what otherwise? You are vague.
Irrelevant to your conclusion.
Yes. It isn’t your call, never was, never will be. You don’t understand the whole situation,including the US legalities involved. Ergo, you can’t have an INFORMED OPINION.
And you again present no evidence for this overextended and not your call decision, which is *floosh* sent to sewage where it belongs. Your OPINION doesn’t matter and is irrelevant. Can’t deal with that? Your problem, not ours.
John, how many real friends do you have?
Jackie:
I’m very amused he seems to think his FB is unassailable. :D
In Finland, that is called bullying. If the only reason you need for that is your own satisfaction, i think you should think about your manners. Even if it is the Internet, people are still people, you don’t have to add to the problem.
I already admitted I was wrong, if Adrias telling of the events were accurate then I support her and the idiot with a history of being unable to keep his mouth shut needed to be fired.
Im only here to see what grand example of my racism PZ is gong to come up with. (hint its gona be nothing).
More reading for you to do: Concern troll.
John, I have a rough idea.
I know enough to know that you’ve been very stupid here.
You’ve said things that will live forever and future employers will find them when they look you up.
More then I probably should, people tend to be oblivious when they are being used when you throw great party’s and have money.
Carlie:
Carlie, I think someone has to have at least a working understanding of what actual friendship is before they can claim X amount of friends. At this point, John seems to be labouring under the belief that he will always be in a position of privilege and power with more money than sense. His inability to see life from any view except his own prevents him from figuring out who would be there for him sans the power, privilege and money.
And if you read it really hard, only thing confimed is inappropriate behavior. If you could quote the related parts that show that i’m wrong.
@Jackie
Yes, because my name is really john jackson, im 120 and I live in Antarctica just like my Facebook says. I don’t think you know how the internet, tor and sockpuppet accounts work.
Yeah, so if i am personally attacked many times, and i ask people to be civil and not add to the problem i’m concern troll. Are you not blaming the victim now?
Hey shit-for-brains Markku,
Everyone directly involved agrees that Adria was subjected to inappropriate behavior. The behavior was inappropriate because it was sexist. Adria has every right to be upset about it, write about it, take pictures of the offending men, and use them as an example of the behavior that needs to become extinct.
Overly sensitive? Fuck you and your sexist dogwhistle. The proper response to outrageous behavior is outrage. Deal with it.
John,
You’ve been told no and if you continue asking, I’m going to have to put you in time out.
That means you can continue blabbering, but I’m going to ignore you.
This thread is not about you. No one here give a happy rat’s hiny (and believe, they have them to give.) about you. You’re being allowed to derail, because you are a chew toy. Get boring and you’ll be killfiled or just plain passed over in the comments. So shape up, ship out or don’t. Another one nearly as obnoxious as you will be along shortly if anyone feels the need to bat something around.
Hey Markku.
Being intellectually lazy is, in fact, contemptible.
Stop being intellectually lazy, and my contempt for you will fade.
Me expressing my contempt for your intellectual laziness is not bullying, and calling it bullying trivializes the experiences of those who are actually bullied.
So fuck off, you lazy, lying jerk.
@markku
Read what happened bro, The guy who was fired has a history of this kind of stuff and had become a liability to his employer. It was not just a dongle joke, he deserved to lose his job.
You have been insulted. Which you earned. You’ve been given chance after chance to educate yourself. You refuse. You’ve been lecturing us while ignoring what people have said. You are taking the real consequences of living in this sexist culture and minimizing it to a thought experiment on what you perceive sexism to be. You repeatedly ignore the agreed upon facts in this issue, agreed upon by Richards, the two men, and the convention.
In short, your call for civility is nothing more than a silencing tactic. You are not a victim. You’ve been arguing in bad faith, and thus are not entitled to civility. This discussion had been going on for over 500 posts before you showed up. Every single point you attempted to make had been addressed. Here and in the other thread. You offered nothing but opinion seeped in privilege.
And you want to talk about our lack of manners. Fuck you. You are part of the problem. You are a fucking concern troll.
I saw a photo on the Internet of a small baby who had never been in Internet
I realized I had to do something or he/she would never have the chance to learn and love different genders as i do, because the growing concern of false sexism would make it impossible for him/her to do so.
I calculated my next steps. I knew there wasn’t a lot of time and the comments on Freethoughtblog would be wrapping up.
I Considered:
– Type of blog
– Amount of commenters
– How the blog post had emphasized different views from mine
– How to address the issue effectively
Then i came here and spent my evening.
Then you MH need to find your manners. You have had your say (assertive). Your inability to now shut the fuck up is becoming increaingly bullying (aggressive) on your part. Just your continued presense repeating the same old shit is indimidation in action. So, mind your manners. Fade into the bandwidth.
And now we’ve reached the point where the dude who’s been essentially calling Adria Richards either a liar or stupid, claims that he’s the REAL victim because I and other expressed contempt for his willful ignorance and his arrogance.
Seriously, fuck you, Markku.
Irrelevant bullshit, since you haven’t proven accusations of false sexism. You only invented them. And are trying to force them down our throats. We know better liar and bullshitter. You have no evidence. Your OPINION is *floosh* dismissed as irrelevant fuckwittery.
You jelly? Its ok, I would be jealous of myself to. I win you lose , you made a claim that I was racist with absolutely nothing to point to. Your a slanderous moron who has zero ability to think critically maybe one day you can be the promoted to fry cook and get out of the McDonald bathroom .
Bullying us with your paranoia and fears. What a warped person you are…
Riiight John. You’re like 007.
More like Secret Squirrel.
John,
If they’re partying at your place and drinking your booze, they aren’t the one’s being used.
OK, time out.
Spelling flames are pointless. Spelling flames are pointless. Spelling flames are pointless. Spelling flames are pointless.
Oh fuck it.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
false sexism
Oh I see now! Markku is the only one who can decide if something is sexist, not those silly women who are the subject of sexual harassment. Only manly menz with penii can have any authority in the matter.
Jackie:
:falls over laughing: In a nutshell.
Sorry, sorry, I’ll get me coat.
Like I said before, the quickest way to make sexism disappear would be to let Manly Men (no manginas!) define sexism for everyone!
@ Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty
Yes, because I don’t charge people to get, that would make no sense, you have obviously never been to a GOOD college party.
@Chris Clarke
I should have used you’re? Does that change the FACT that he is a slanderous moron.
The Jay-Jay toddler temper trantrum continues unabated. Tune back later for the thrilling conclusion.
Hahahahahahahahahaha *gasp* hahahahahahahahaha. Hahahaha. Hee. Oh, are you going to threaten to sue us all now? C’mon, c’mon, there’s the Idiot’s Script of Stupid Shit to Say on the Internet, ad nauseum. Get with it, sourcakes.
This must be some culture difference. I can’t understand it otherwise
If people would accept that reasoning, there would be never any discussion. If it just enough to state that other party is not on your level and do it unilaterally, i wonder how the discussions would proceed. What is the level, professor in gender studies?
And lets assume that i do not understand the issue, i am ignorant, lets say i’m stupid for real, iq 75. Does that earn your contempt and personal attacks. Huh?
I repeatedly ask the quotations which prove those facts and repeatedly i get none.
Okayy? Are you saying i shouldn’t be civil nor expect it from others?
This is again culture difference, do you need to be entitled to civility? I generally think it as default setting. And i see no value in being uncivil almost ever. This most certainly wouldn’t be one of those occasions.
So no need to discuss anything because knowledge level and privilege. Thats nice way to go.The problem is that while the questions had been answered to your liking, that doesn’t mean everybody is satisfied. Your view is not the only view, it is not the truth, it is just the view of the situation as you see it.
No words.
Caine, Nutshell?
Ha! I see what ya did there.
Punny stuff!
John Jackson:
You do know the difference between slander and libel, right?
Fixed that for you, ya lazy jerk.
I have a feeling John hasn’t been reading the thread.
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Works for me.
Why does it only apply to me? There are people who have been longer on this thread than i have. They have said their part many times more? And now i’m aggressive when i do not shut up and i call out people who attack my person instead of my arguments.
I’ll ask this question again:
Answer the questions, Markku.
If you don’t, I shall–*gasp!*–shock! horror!–call you unkind names!
Or you could always accept that you’re not adding anything to this conversation, and go away to do the reading you so desperately need to do.
Depend solely on your willingness to learn. If you won’t learn, and like now, we have nothing whatsoever to learn from you, yes, the comtempt and personal attacks are earned by you. This is a rude blog and you are well past your third post We get to cut loose on you until you either go away, or you finally realize this isn’t an opinion exchange and you need to back up everything you say with citations. Your choice cricket, choose wisely. I suggest fading into the bandwidth.
Markku.
First thing off the top of my head – we have five accounts: Richard’s, mr_hank’s, both of their companies’s, and Pycon’s.
John.
Yeah, we all know your folks have enough money to pay someone to wipe your ass.
So?
It appears to me that your sole contributions to humanity are a) keeping a lot of breweries in business and b) spending a lot of daddy’s money.
Here’s a hint: None of what you do is “impressive”.
If you come stumbling in to argue your stupid ass point, yes. You have not done your homework, you have not done your due diligence. People were patient with you. It is clear that there isn’t a culture clash at work. You are being willfully ignorant. You are being intellectually dishonest.
There’s nothing to discuss. You want to pick over the joke, you want to ignore the context in which it was made. You’ve invented your own idea of sexism to play a “no true sexism” card.
Read the fucking thread. I’m not doing your homework for you. Several have given you responses, or responded to others. This is your problem, not mine.
No one is entitled to civility. I really prefer to treat others as if they are acting in good faith. This might surprise you, but you are the latest in a long line of jackasses saying the same things as you. With nothing. You don’t get respect or civility unless you show you can earn those. You’ve failed at this.
It was one thing to come in and lie about reading the thread. It was a long thread. That’s something I can let slide. But your points were refuted or dismissed, you were told why. We explained why it was sexist, people linked to evidence showing how it effects the work, you were given suggestions on what to read.
You don’t come here to engage. You came to preach. Fuck off.
Such a thing exists? All the really good parties I’ve been to had nothing to do with colleges.
Caine,
We could make a very dangerous drinking game out of these threads.
First, you are the on tone trolling. Second, you are the one trolling this thread. Third, you aren’t EVIDENCING your opinion. This isn’t an opinion exchange, never was. It was a discussion of facts. And you have invented your facts and been caught out. You need to cease everything to do with those invented facts. Like the joke wasn’t sexist. it was.
nigelTheBold, also Avo @1117
I guess whoever’s on the payroll to take that particular vocab quiz for JayJay knows that distinction. If only there were enough money for JayJay to hire someone to help him with commenting here.
Oh my god. I haven’t read any of this thread yet, having just managed to slog to the end of the other Adria thread (and what fun that was. *spits*).
1120 comments and counting.
Again.
Every. Fucking. Time.
My students this morning asked me if I was a pessimist or optimist, and I told them it depended on the day. They asked what I was today and I said optimist.
So, in that spirit, I am going to decide right now that this thread got to 1120 comments because everyone was having a wonderfully heartening discussion in which many lurkers emerged to say that reading these threads changed their way of thinking about feminism and women.
Also I’d like a pony, and a time machine so I can go back and see Bowie perform as Ziggy Stardust.
Here we go…
Nigel:
Now, now. He’s busy cheating his way through college, so how would he possibly know that? After all, he doesn’t need to think, his parents haz money money money, so he’s adopted the Red Queen lifestyle.
I already have.
So i’m not entitled to say anything about the world i work and live in, only the sociologist who study gender studies can? They have deeply studied all evidence from Adria Richards scenario and their official finding is that it was sexist. No one has no right to bring any uneducated comments to the situation, if they do, they will be put down with earned comments about their person.
One would think that this case is so specific and real evidence sparse, that it is not about gender studies that tell about this situation but subjective view of the issue when people have read through the evidence.
Jackie:
Gods yes. JAL brought that up in Teadome and I replied “we’d all be in a coma.”
la tricoteuse, if you find that time machine, take my hand and yell, “Run”. I want to go too!
I wonder if it’s ever percolated through JJ’s thick skull that some of us are doing better than he is without ever having had to mooch off Mummy and Daddy or rely on nepotism to get where we are in life? That some of us are adults who worked for what we’ve got, but aren’t so utterly crass that we think it makes us better than anyone else who might have less?
I wonder what his Mummy and Daddy would think of his behaviour here, and if they’d be as inclined to continue financing his lifestyle if they heard how little he appreciated their hard work. Then again, I’m guessing they already know what an entitled little shit they raised and are probably just glad to be rid of him.
I know I would be.
And the only one where there is talk about sexual comments is the one Richards made. All others state inappropriate. And the guys statement says that the forking joke definately was not sexual.
Please correct me.
No no, you’re perfectly entitled to say whatever the fuck you want. However, since your opinion is based on nothing but horseshit, your insistence that we should respect your opinions will be dismissed with contempt.
So is it time for JJ to leave? Because I think its time for JJ to leave. JJ has been trolling pretty fucking hard for the last 300 or so comments ever since they started the “I’ve got mine so fuck you” line of “argument”.
Honestly if JJ is telling the truth and they were born with a silver spoon I’m actually kind of depressed at how xe’s squandering xir parents’ money. I can’t imagine what parent would be happy that their child is a sexist, racist, arrogant, shithead. Incidentally I moderately doubt the truth of the self-aggrandizing JJ does because the shameful fuckheadedness of “I HAVE SOCKPUPPETS AND TOR AND BITCOINS! WATCH ME FLAUNT MY 1337NESS!” makes them come across like a flailing moron trying to act tough online in a forum for a completely different subject matter
Oh Glodson, don’t pass out on the keyboard. You’ll wake up looking like you slept on a waffle iron.
I just wish that every time I got cupcake bingo, I actually got a cupcake.
Hmmm…I may start stashing cupcakes for just such occasions.
Markku:
While civility is often the best default among peers, it rarely helps change social injustice. Calls for civility are often used by those with greater privilege to silence those with less privilege — because it’s those with the superior social power (those in privilege) who get to define what is “civil” and what is not civil.
Take this whole case, for instance. Two men made sexist jokes (and I have heard and made jokes about both dongles and forking before, and they are most definitely sexist, as they invariably assume male dominance in the IT field). In that situation, they were not civil, as those kinds of jokes make other people uncomfortable, or remind other people that they are in the relatively-powerless minority. Adria Richards could’ve responded by disrupting the ongoing presentation further (which also would’ve been uncivil). Instead, she responded in a way that seemed innocuous at the time: by calling them out to the event organizers.
Was she right in calling them out? Absolutely. They were breaking the event’s code of conduct. Should she have done it in a public setting like Twitter? That might not have been the best choice, but it’s hard to tell.
But in any case, I note that the calls for civility tend to be used against Adria Richards, and not against the two men who were blatantly uncivil.
That is, it’s used as a silencing tactic against those with less social power.
Around here, calls for civility are met with quite a bit of suspicion, and rightfully so. Too often, calls to civility are used to quell opposition to established social patterns.
Strawman. You can discuss reasonably if you have done the prerequisite reading and attempt to understand the subject. Without any evidence, you just have a fucking unsourced opinion, which is useless.
They have studied our culture, and we can take that information and apply it to this situation.
Bullshit. Men making sex jokes in a conference about getting more women in the field has an effect. It makes women more uncomfortable, and it encourages men to make the same jokes. This was described, in this very thread. Their intent was likely nothing more than thoughtless boredom. Their intent doesn’t matter. We are looking at why they were so comfortable and why they didn’t think. That is the sexism.
I don’t write this for your benefit. Maybe someone else will get something out of this. Not you though, you’ve proven that you are either too stupid to understand or that you just don’t care.
You seem to be bothered at the accusation of being racist. Why is that?
Personally, I’d consider the rapist accusation to be more damning. But your true colors just continue to shine through.
Oh, and I believe you’ve admitted to trolling and sockpuppeting by now, in case any blog owners are keeping track.
Were you put down the first time you gave your opinion? Or the fifth time? Or the twentieth with the same unevidenced and unlearned OPINION? Context MH, you have none. The more you repeat, the snarkier we become. Why? You aren’t learning, but rather preaching. Proselytizers of any form hit PZ’s banhammer frequently.
Do you have anthing new to add after your dozen of posts, or the 1100+ posts made to date? No. Why post anything then, where all you do is repeat the same well refuted nonsense over and over, which is preaching. It is only discussing if there is a real possibility of you being wrong. Since there isn’t from your behavior to date, you are preaching/proselytizing.
Kate:
Who knows if it’s true or not? Can’t say I much care, outside of the being very disturbed there’s yet another sexual predator on the loose. If I was his parents, I’d lock him up though – he seems very keen to get his hands on that money.
Forking can also be a euphenism for fucking. You are stupid, as this has been explained to you above. Either learn or go away. Obtuse ignorance is condemned soundly around here, and you are displaying a classical case of it.
Rey:
I was just thinking similar thoughts. John is all upset about being called a racist, but happily admitted to being a person completely unconcerned with consent in sexual matters, making him a sexual predator. A rapist. That’s okay, but don’t call him a racist! Yikes.
Caine:
Don’t call him poor, either. That seems to be the worst insult he can use.
Unintelligent, he seems to be OK with, though. At least, if his actual statements are any indication.
@Caine:
Yeah, you’re right. His lack of concern over consent is worrisome. I hope he’s never close enough to another woman to ever put his “philosophy of consent (or lack thereof)” into action.
**shudder**
Nigel:
Oh, right. Given his
poorsubstandard thinking ability, he had best keep his money in a bank. His ability to actually earn any doesn’t look too rosy.Oh no, he cares about that one. He got more than 1400 on his SATs! Of course, by now he’s established a pattern of cheating on academic matters.
Oh, and his house has a hundred bathrooms.
And you unilaterally decide that, you decide it because i have different opinion and you are unable to respect it.
And you accept only one definition of sexual joke, and that is yours. How does your way differ from mine? Is there study about jokes and what makes them sexual and sexist and it is so specific that you can by that study say for certain that it was so. Your point is really that the gender studies and statitics give so clear picture that they actually can take one scenario in account and you can make conclusions. Nicee, especially when the matter is quite subjective and we don’t even have objective accounts from it.
So all the ranting in Internet, maybe the target just didn’t earn the civility in their mind?
When your self worth is tied to such variable external attributes then your feeling of worth will always be in a state of change. Should JJ become broke or cut off (granting their autobiography correct), or should the treadmill of monetary gain ever wear him out, then they are very likely to end up severely depressed, even to the point of suicide. And even if the story they’ve told isn’t true it’s still pretty clear that they are judging their self by those attributes, even though they do not possess them. Essentially a fantasist already in a depressed state due to their immature character (which is the only aspect which is unassailably true.)
One more time, Markku:
Why do you keep avoiding the question?
Shall we add cowardice to your list of character flaws?
“Oh, and his house has a hundred bathrooms”
Okay, if that were true I’d actually be pretty damn impressed! The water bill for keeping the toilet tanks full would be astronomical! Not to mention the bill for all the Mr. Clean!
You are dense. This is just utter stupidity. You are so desperate to paint this as not an example of sexism that you focus on the words of the joke rather than the actual content of the joke and the context in which it was made.
Your failure to even understand how a double entrendre works reveals that you are entirely brainless.
If we JJ isn’t banned we need a script that auto inserts “Hey Handsome Jack here” before each of his posts. The guy (taking at his own word) is a cartoon
Rey:
Given how full of shit he is, I’m sure that’s a good thing.
Yes it probably can, and many terms can be, not that forking repo would make any sexual sense if turned in to sexual words. But it also is technical term which is commonly used in conferences like that even when directed at person. Most project have one strong project lead and he controls the repo. Forking his repo means that you participate in the project. It is not sexual, i have not ever thought it such and i don’t think most people who have strong backround in conding and computer do. If forking someone’s repo comes unacceptable, we have to change terms, it is just COMMON usage. That is like changing color black to different word because it can mean race.
Markku:
That’s undeniably true. When people rant about folks like Adria Richards, they obviously judge her as underserving of civility.
What’s more telling is, why do they judge her underserving of civility? And how do they manifest their incivility?
Aw, man, why’d you have to go and ruin it like that? Now I can’t be mean, it’s just too sad. I thought you’d at least say that you have a sitcom-style buddy wingman who you play poker with and who bailed you out of jail once. Instead, I read what you wrote there and all I can hear is Doc Hopper telling Kermit “I got lots of friends. Max here is my friend. Right, Max? Max!”
No, because you have an opinion you haven’t supported with any evidence beyond your own brain.
There’s a difference between sexism and incivility. Sure, the two sets overlap, but they are not necessarily the same. We’ve condemned one and condone the other. Is that really so complicated?
What to do, what to do. Do I deal with JJ’s faffing about or do I try to get something, anything, to click with MH?
Maybe I’ll take up a practical, rewarding hobby instead. Just now I favour teaching a hippopotamus to fly as a more productive activity than this flustercuck.
It will never end, will it.
But would he ever let a black person use one of them?
If civility is something you need to earn, and before that everything goes, doesn’t that make all internet shit that people give each other valid, as they can just say that the other person did not earn the civility from them.
Here it is thought other way around. You are civil by default and if very strong reasons arise, then you will given pass, but even then it is better to be civil if possible. Putting people down just because you think they are stupid is not acceptable reason.
Apparently in some cases it is enought to think someone is stupid.
mildlymagnificent:
No. We just had a “hey, what’s wrong with a dick joke” asshole show up in the ask an ethicist thread.
Show us where we must respect your different, and unlearned and evidenced, OPINION. Put up or shut the fuck up. Hint. We don’t.
Sorry, we accept the definition shown by the evidence, not what you think. What you think is irrelevant to the facts. That’s why you get no traction here. Hint: you are wrong, now shut the fuck up if you can’t EVIDENCE your opinion.
This is really a continuation of your first blockquote here. Your OPINION does not have to be respected. It will be challenged, and when we did so, you failed to provide evidence to back it up, therefore *floosh* we treated it with the proper respect it deserved none. Your opinion is irrelevant.
Being civil isn’t respecting inane opinions. It is listening to those opinions and then challenging them like we did. The lack of civility came when your inane and thoroughly refuted by evidence opinions were repeated ad nauseum disrespectfully by you. You were at fault for bring on the disrespect you feel at the moment. Because you lack the intellectual integrity and honesty to acknowledge your opinion is worthless and irrelevant without evidence.
Still not getting it. They’ve put you down because your arguments, your opinions and your insistence that we respect both are stupid.
Markku:
Just as dongle is also a technical term, but can be turned into a joke suitable for many 12-year-olds.
The fact is, they used both fork and dongle as euphemisms in their jokes. They did so knowing full well that Adria Richards was not only in hearing range, but listening. They were acting in an uncivil manner.
As mild as their incivility might seem, they were still abusing their social position as males in a heavily male-dominated field to make rude jokes.
#1086 Markku Hänninen
Dumbfuck, I gave like 5 links earlier to clear up your confusion. That word doesn’t mean what you think it means.
—
—
#1164 carlie
Of course! He has one just for them, so don’t you dare call him racist!
Here’s the problem you are having, you expect us to treat you well. You got chance after chance. We weren’t polite, but we weren’t outright rude. You ignored arguments, played with semantics, you are ignoring SallyStrange’s question.
No only have you not earned civility you have squandered any good will.
You aren’t getting put down because we think you are stupid. You are getting put down because you are being dishonest and ignorant to the point at which it is apparent it is willful.
That was a nice little dodge. Sure, all these people here are big fat meanies for think what you said is stupid. Now, what has Adria Richards done to deserve such “incivility” (read: raging, toxic sexism)?
You should really stop cheating and try to learn something, Cupcake. Like proper apostrophe usage and how plurals work. Like so: “great party’s” – wrong. “John’s party is the best” – right. “Party’s” – wrong. “Parties” -right.
Actually, you should have learned this in 3rd grade or so. Were you paying someone to do your schoolwork then, too?
SallyStrange: – sorry, i didn’t notice.
The situation in question is not something we can reason out with statitics and gender studies. it is so specific scenario, it is much more subjective matter than anything gender studies really can take it sights on. What i understand the science it is mostly statistical and it analyses large events that happen in gender issues. I don’t see how the science of gender studies would be practically applicapple to such small scenario. I understand the studies that they tell us what kind of behaviour in general sense leads to women not being accepted or women feeling uncomfortable etc. but i quite certain it is not so specific that you can say your way is based on gender studies science when you make your subjective opinion clear about the issue.
Valiant effort Horde. When you’ve got sexism apologists more dense than Iridium, you won’t manage to wedge a fact in their noggins with a sledge hammer.
But as someone mentioned up thread, the facts aren’t for them anyway. They’re for the lurkers who want to learn and those who have been treated to this sort of hyper scrutiny and victim blaming themselves.
I applaud your efforts.
Also, thanks for the laughs at asshats’ expense. It may not be the height of civility, but it is therapeutic.
Markku Hänninen,
You are putting a great deal of focus on “civility”. But you seem to ignore that one can be quite uncivil without ever uttering a naughty word or insult.
You also seem unaware that your refusal to engage with the facts (including facts that others here are reporting to you about their own experience, over these many, many comments) is itself uncivil.
I think you have the capacity to understand what sexism is. It’s just that you refuse to do the small amount of work required to attain that understanding.
Your problem is not that you’re dumb. Your problem is that you’re lazy and arrogant despite your lack of understanding.
I am putting you down because you COULD be better informed but REFUSE to inform yourself, and instead attempt to whine and strawman our arguments. I don’t have a degree in gender studies. I never took a gender studies course, more’s the pity. But, by gum, when I first came across the idea that there’s actual empirical research on sexism and how it functions, you bet I looked up some articles and read them. I try to do this whenever I comment on any subject. The more I comment, the more I have to read. This way, I can ensure that my comments are useful to other readers and I’m not rudely wasting other people’s time by insisting that they be my unpaid sociology (or whatever) professor.
But, if you want to, go ahead and whine some more about being called nasty names. It just further demonstrates why nobody should give a fuck what your uninformed opinion is.
Markku:
I assume you are obliquely referencing the incivility on display here. If that’s so, then you can put your mind at ease: in general, people here will not be uncivil due to lesser intelligence.
They will, however, be completely uncivil to those who flaunt their ignorance about a subject, and defend their ignorance with positions like, “I was just asking a question,” or, “My position is just as valid as yours, though I haven’t bothered to create a defensible case using evidence.”
Classic tone trolling. If I can’t evidence my OPINION, I will complain to hell and back you don’t respect it. Well, we consider the source. Your tone trolling puts you automatically into the sewer with the rest of the garbage. Tone and concern trolls are the lowest of the low. They have no honor.
#1165 Markku Hänninen
Your words, your “arguments” on this thread IS a very strong reason to be uncivil to you. You didn’t come here, make a spelling mistake and get called retarded for it. That doesn’t happen here.
You came here and decided to deny, deny, deny sexism and blame Adria. THAT’S reprehensible, all things considered.
Oy! Markku Hänninen! Here’s a prime example of incivility. Let’s discuss that, okay?
Well that certainly isn’t very clear point on earlier attacks on my person which were during the evening. Furthermore you keep calling me dishonest and ignorant and the only thing you base it on is that my view of the issue doesn’t base itself on area of science that has never been about one single scenario. You hide behind gender studies and tell me that i’m wrong because i lack the information the studies have provided. Can you describe me the wisdom and knowledge the studies have brought you that overshadows the subjective view on this incident? Especially when considering the evidence which is sparse at best.
#1175 Markku Hänninen
This is nonsensical. The studies on micro-aggressions are precisely based on incidents such as this. So why the fuck can’t we use them here?
So, that’s a “yes” on the cowardice. OK.
The more you write, the more obvious your dishonesty becomes. How many times were those studies referenced during the course of this thread, which you claim to have read? How many relevant studies are linked to at the Pharyngula Wiki, which people have already told you to check out?
Prove you’re not a liar and tell me the answer.
Yup. Glad we cleared that up.
Oh.. you continued.
You stupid hyperskeptic fuck. Everyone fucking agrees who were involved that there were making stupid ass dick and fucking jokes during the conference.
We’ve connected the dots for you. This creates the uncomfortable environment in which women often feel unwelcome. As well as their actions is symptomatic of the thoughtlessness that allows for our sexist culture to exist. The evidence is overwhelming, you douchebag.
Markku:
The evidence isn’t sparse. You consider the evidence sparse because you refuse to believe Adria Richards’ side of the story, even though the account given by the two men matches her account.
My question to you is: why do you disbelieve Adria Richards’ account, when there all other evidence seems to support it?
Yeah, that is horrible. I think people should be responsible what they say in internet. Reaction against Richards was very very wrong on many different levels. Everyone who makes threats should be put in mandatory counseling where they would be told about the consequences of hate speech. Many people laugh it off, but they do not understand that while they say something once, the effect on other end might be thousandfold.
Let’s not forget that Markku’s position is that Adria Richards is either lying about what happened, or she is too dumb to know sexism when she sees it.
So it’s perfectly fine for Markku to make baseless accusations against Richards’ character and/or intelligence, but for us to call him out for refusing to inform himself before opining on a complex sociological phenomenon? That’s just beyond the pale.
You’ve been a helpful object lesson in sexist double standards, Markku.
#1189 Markku Hänninen
Wait….you think those assholes DON’T know the effect it has on Adria and other women? How fucking naive and stupid are you? The very reason those people did those things was because of the effect it has on Adria and other women.
Stop living in Uranus and pull your ass out of ass already.
Give us some evidence, you fucking lying hack or fuck off. Prove your claim. Back it up.
I call it out because i know forking repos isn’t sexual because i’ve forked man’s repo and i can tell you for a FACT that i had no sex with a man, i had no sex with a computer, i didn’t even think sex, i got piece of code.
Furthermore i point out to her blog post where her justifications raise to level where i think that there might be more in this than the joke. She cares the issue a lot and might have made a bad call about joke being sexist. It was still stupid joke and didn’t belong in the coference. But like i have said, the beef is with the joke being sexist.
Can you describe to me the homework you did to actually post here, and how many of the links you followed to learn something?
I’ll give you a little lesson cricket. We skeptics use the null hypothesis as a starting point. This can be a standard, “there is no evidence for a deity, so deities don’t exist”, which puts the burden of evidence on those making the claim for existence of a diety. Or, like in this case, it can be “there is a history of evidence showing privilege and patriarchy exist, ergo that conclusion is the null hypothesis”. That is what happened here
We also have years of experince in dealing with these issues, and hence we viewed the evidence through that null hypothesis. Experience is another word for you. You come here and pretend innocence, but we’ve seen dozens of people play your exact game. But, being true skeptics, we were ready to listen to and evaluate any evidence you presented. But, you only presented your unevidenced opinions, which were *floosh* dismissed without evidence per Christopher Hitchens. You aren’t anybody special. Just another in a long line of “gottcha” trolls who we squash underfoot.
Wait, so it was a joke, but they were using the term literally? WTF?
Emphasis mine.
Markku:
You know what “inappropriate” means, right? Especially in reference to jokes? I’m assuming you also claim that “big dongle” isn’t a sexualized use of the term?
So yes. Their account really does support hers. The event managers also came to the conclusion that her account was accurate.
I’m not entirely unfamiliar with version control systems, having used them since the RCS days. I use git for my own projects. I am also familiar with forking repos.
It’s interesting that you automatically distrust her account. You still haven’t explained why you swiftly disbelieve her, but have to twist the reports and argue semantics to support your conclusion.
Gee, showing a classic obtuse ignorance of double entendre. Not learning a damn thing, are you? That is classical obtuse ignorance.
IT IS A FUCKING DOUBLE ENTRENDRE YOU FUCKING LYING IDIOT, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEAD AND STOP WITH THIS STUPID BULLSHIT.
Goddamnit, that has been talked about, to fucking death. It is joke that makes women uncomfortable, it is one seeped in privilege. I don’t know if they guys were aware of this, or just appalling ignorant. Doesn’t matter. It is fucking sexist because it creates the environment in which women feel uncomfortable and men feel entitled.
your evidenced OPINION is *floosh* dismissed without evidence. Welcome to reality, where your opinion is irrelevant, requiring real evidence to make it relevant. You presented no evidence.
I have no more evidence than you do. We have subjective view of event that took place and there are 2 short statements of it from people who were there. Now i the guy stated that repo forking wasn’t sexual, i believe him because i know it is a technical term used and i’ve forked a repo.
Now, if she was wrong about the forking joke, which she herself told was a first trigger for it. Maybe she called it wrong with the dongle joke as well. Then comes her blog post which is out of this world, making her heroine of the tech world saving young girls on a crusade for women’s rights. I just think it is more plausible that the dongle joke was just a dongle joke and she took it wrong after she thought they were sexually forking as well. Because she thought wrongly about the forking joke, it put her mindset to thinking they were making sexual jokes, when someone says something about dongle => what is the result?
Markku:
So, you don’t see how the term “forking” could be used in a sexual way?
Great, you stated your dumbass and pointless opinion, MH.
Now fuck off. You’ve added nothing, ignored the evidence and shown you are not interested in acting in good faith.
Sorry, we have evidence, you don’t. Only a confirm liar and bullshitter keeps playing “all opinions are equal”. They aren’t. You lose the opinion game, as yours is unevidence, and irrelevant.
…….Is it just me or does Markku have a tendency to reply to men firstly and willing, but only to women after people get pissed after he’s ignored them for so long?
What’s the joke? I thought they were just using a technical term.
Markku:
Even if I grant you that, the dongle joke was sexual. Ergo, the situation remains the same. And considering the dongle joke came right on the heels of the forking joke, it seems entirely unlikely there was no innuendo in the forking joke.
Further, you grant that the forking joke was inappropriate for the venue. Why is that, if it’s an innocent joke devoid of sexual connotations?
I’d accept this straight away if were at bar or even somewhere else but CODING CONFERENCE, where forking repos means 99,9% doing something to piece of code. Otherwise i need to see evidence of intent. And such has not been provided, except Richards, who made her decision when she overheard other people and thought about girls coding.
Such hyptheticals are for confimed liars and bullshitters. People of honesty and integrity don’t second guess others. You have said nothing cogent all day. Your OPINIONS are irrelevant to this discussion.
It isn’t just you. I noticed how long he went before he addressed SallyStrange, and how much of that answer was deflection and bullshit.
Who the fuck cares what you, a confirmed liar, bullshitter and obtusely ignorant person demands. You opinon is irrelevant. Your word is always questioned. You have no point now. All you have is your temper trantrum, like poor Jay-Jay.
sigh.
Yep, he’s still calling Adria Richards a liar, or a person who’s too stupid to know what sexism is.
That’s really fucking uncivil, Markku.
I don’t think forking is inappriopriate, i think the dongle is inappropriate but not necessarily sexual or sexist. Furthermore, there is no timetable, it doesn’t raelly make it clear was it continuous or was there pauses between or when she the part of the show began when the dongle joke came. Only that it was first forking and later on dongle.
They fucking admitted it. You are wrong. There’s no debate here. This is a fact. Period.
It was a joke made at a coding conference because it was a double fucking entendre. That’s the entirety of the fucking joke. If they were just talking about forking, it wouldn’t be a goddamned joke. It would be a comment about coding. The fact that forking and dongle can be made to reference sex is where the joke comes from.
That’s how double entrendres work. Now, fuck off with your dishonesty.
Jacob:
Oh Snap!
Does Markku think Nerd is a woman? Most dumbass trolls assume wrongly about Nerd’s gender, I’ve noticed.
Markku:
The timetable is quite clear. It’s clear form Adria Richards’ account. The only way to conclude the timetable wasn’t clear is if you think she is lying. And there is no good reason to assume she’s lying.
Making dick jokes at a professional conference, during a presentation about making the field more welcoming to women and girls, is sexist.
If you disagree with this statement, Markku, explain why, and back up your explanation with references to peer-reviewed studies, as we have.
Markku Hänninen!
Fork off, Cupcake. While you’re at it, go fork yourself.
Markku:
So, how would a joke like that be inappropriate, but not sexual or sexist?
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness @1206:
Looks that way to me, too.
Of course, he’s probably just ignoring me because he’s worried that gazing upon my profile pic will turn him to stone.
Which has been in guys statement said been comment “i want to fork that mans repo” which means that he’d like to participate to his project because is is good project or successful or otherwise noteworthy.
“My friends and I had decided forking someone’s repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said “I would fork that guys repo” The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us.”
That whole joke wouldn’t make any sense if the guys weren’t gay or bisexual which is unlikely. Do you often here your male friends make jokes about getting on with another guy? Furthermore i’d like to satte that A) the guy had repo B) the guy wants to fork it because it good project = > he would fork that repo if possible. I can admit that while it is more rare that it is said directly from person instead with project name, it does happen, especially if the person is question is noteworthy. Me forking Torvald’s repo means that i’d be joining the kernel core project if possible.
Makku:
Uhm, yeah. It’s still sexual. That specific phrasing is specifically designed to mimic sexual innuendo. So, while they might not believe they were making a sexual joke, if they thought that phrase was funny in any way (which they did, otherwise they wouldn’t’ve called it a joke), it’s due to the sexual overtones of that specific phrasing.
Yeah. I call it mock flirting. I quite enjoy it, actually, despite my heterosexuality. Not everyone is a homophobe; some of us are quite capable of making sexual inuendos between same sex friends without feeling uncomfortable.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness & docfreeride:
Yeah, my sexism just gets the best of me from time to time.
But hey really, i’m answering sometimes to 5 comments at i time, i only have one keyboard and i can say for fact that your gender is not really that obvious from your nicknames. So good luck to my sexism.
Just fuck off. There’s no arguing with you since the guys in question admitted to the accusation. They know what they were saying, what they meant, and what they were doing.
That is true, but is it common. Is it so common that forking repo would be more likely to be sexual mock flirting joke instead of technical commentary about real issue in coding conference? I’d say that those statistics are against it being sexual.
#1224 Markku Hänninen
You fucking moron. You’re ignoring the sequence of events. Forking the guys repo isn’t the comment Adria had a problem with. The sexual jokes came after. What does he say about THAT? Oh, he’s stayed silent on that note? Jeez I wonder why.
This came first:
Then this:
You haven’t address the fucking problem! You’re pulling a douche maneuver just like he is to cover his ass.
Read, fucker.
The observation has already been made – the wavefunction’s already collapsed – it was a sexual joke.
Your study must have been very accurate as it so well takes account just this case and the environment and situation. You talk about general study about field and you apply it to single case which we have no objective information. How is that science? I don’t agree with your premise.
Gee, I guess I should have changed my username to Sam instead of Sally if I didn’t feel like repeating myself five times just to get a response, eh?
Making dick jokes at a professional conference, during a presentation about making the field more welcoming to women and girls, is sexist.
If you disagree with this statement, Markku, explain why, and back up your explanation with references to peer-reviewed studies, as we have.
I’d like to see these statistics you’ve referenced but have yet to show.
Now, for the third time, if “forking” was meant as a technical term, where is the joke? You know, the one he’s admitted to making?
Then explain why, and provide peer-reviewed studies to counteract the ones that clearly showing that sexual jokes in workplace settings create what researchers have termed a “chilly climate” for women and minorities.
Yes, do tell.
Markku:
There’s no question that it’s a sexual joke. The phrasing leaves no doubt. There are many ways to say you’d like to clone a repository and work on a project without sexual overtones. Saying things like, “I’d like to fork that man’s repo” and laughing is not one of them.
The entire reason they thought it was funny is because of the sexual overtones. Otherwise, if they were doing nothing but innocently stating their desire to contribute to a project, there is no reason to laugh.
This is the part where Markku explodes, right?
Markku Hänninen, I have a biiiiiig dongle right here – what’s your capacity, baby?
Who gives a flying fuck on what you say. Either provide evidence go back it up, or shut the fuck up. Only self-acknowledging liars and bullshitter won’t put up, and won’t shut up.
#1227 Markku Hänninen
So, what Sally is gender neutral all of a sudden? docfreeride with the woman profile pic isn’t fucking obvious? How about nightshadequeen? Or carlie? Or Caine? Or Tethys? Or Jackie, Ms. Paper if ya nasty? those examples you douchebro?
You immediately choose to respond to the male identified or assumed commenters, you only acknowledge female identified or assumed commenters after it’s been repeated, bolded and the only thing left.
And everybody here says how all the accounts support Richards, i’ve pointed that it is not so. Furthermore, you are not thinking it clearly. Richards said first was talk about forking repo then sexual one. I think forking repo was said, then the one which mentioned that someone would like to fork some guy’s repo which Richards thought sexist. And that was the one clearly being told as not sexual when the guy explains it in his apology. You just read the same text and come to different conclusions.
Furthermore, why accept blame about something and then lie about different part. Especially when he got fired already.
We have information that’s pretty close to objective–that is, none of the parties’ subjective accounts differ substantially.
Unless you are still trying to claim that Adria Richards is lying or stupid.
Is that what you’re trying to claim?
Let’s put science with the list of things you don’t fucking understand.
We don’t do too many highly specific experiments, or studies, meant to examine one specific circumstance. That would be useless. We want to isolate a variable as much as we can as to examine how it can have an effect. We try to make general statements, theories, and apply them to real world scenarios as a test.
In sociology, it is possible to look at the use of language across lines of gender and sex to see an effect. There is an effect. Like in this study. When we have this environment, the causal nature of making a sexually charged joke despite it making a woman uncomfortable is a symptom.
This is the fucking science. It is well documented.
I actually have 8GB (only average sized) in my wallet, i have to take some files to the office.
# 1232 Markku Hänninen
1. The study takes into account professional environments, you douchnozzel, just like this one.
2. The fuck?!!? We HAVE that information.
Who the fuck cares what you think science is since you both don’t learn, and don’t understand evidence. Science requires both. we have nothing to learn from liars and bullshitters like yourself.
Caine
Ahaha, I feel like I shouldn’t have laughed.
Yes, and I find your implicit insistence that “inappropriate” and “sexual” are somehow mutually exclusive sets.
#1242 Markku Hänninen
Condensed version: Bitchez be crazy! Bitchez be hysterical! Bitchez by lyin’!
Sure it is, and i don’t doubt it. I just think that your science is not applicaple to situations like this. It studies broad term effects. it doesn’t take any notion to single word being used in situation like that. Ie. it cannot tell you was it sexual or not, that is subjective view that we take, it is not something that gender studies tell you. If we can decide that issue, then we can look gender studies to seeing what effect it has if it is used.
Forgive me for the derail, but what is a dongle?. Over here, where I come from, dongle refers to the adaptor that between any Mac display port to VGA.
Markku:
No, you haven’t. You’ve asserted that, but even the details you present supports her account.
You have not explained how the phrase “forking that man’s repo” can be funny without the obvious sexual overtones. You haven’t explained how a “big dongle” joke can be inappropriate, but not sexist or sexual. You haven’t really even shown that the account from the two men differ in any substantive way from Adria’s.
They admitted they were making a joke with “I’d like to fork that man’s repo.” The only way it can be a joke is with the innuendo. Now, they might not have had any sexual intent. But the humor rests solely on innuendo.
So, no. The evidence you’ve presented fully supports Adria Richards’ account.
Your refusal to accept her account is not based on any reasonable interpretation of the events.
Damnit.
Markku
I find your implicit insistence that “inappropriate” and “sexual” are somehow mutually exclusive sets to be quite strange.
You idiot. You fucking idiot.
The jokes were sexual. That’s a fact. It was made in a professional setting, an extension of a job site. That’s a fact. The jokes were made during a talk on increasing women in the field. That’s a fact.
The study applies. The science applies. This is an extension of the chilly environment. The women are tacitly told that they are invading a space in which they don’t belong. You are ignoring what happened, and you are ignoring the sociology behind this.
You are being willfully ignorant and haven’t offered any evidence supporting any of your points. Your opinion is irrelevant. You have no point.
Ah, but i do not. It might be that PyCons statement means sexist or sexual when it says inappropriate. And the others might mean as well. All i’m saying that there is no supportive accounts that sexual or sexist language was used. It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. But i do say that you can’t say for certain that it did and Richards’ account is supported 100%.
#1250 Markku Hänninen
It. was. sexual.
Even if it wasn’t, sexual harassment is determined by the person being harassed, dipshit. Go read the fucking links Pteryxx provided waaaaay back there.
The studies looks at the broad, long term effects of sexual harassment including those just little one word comments. Godfucking damn dude you just can’t connect the fucking dots can you? SO fucking determined to make it so everyone shrugs off “little things” that fucking make the chilly climate for women.
Just because you want to make “little flirty sex jokes” to the women who can’t run away from you because they are stuck working with your stupid jackass self.
Jacob:
In this case, I think it’s okay, given Markku’s response, which shows he’s either utterly humorless, completely without any understanding of sexuality or pretending that it’s impossible to use tech terms as sexual innuendo.
Markku:
Then please give an example of a joke that is “inappropriate” for that environment, but not sexist or sexual, using the words “dongle” or “fork.”
There doesn’t seem to be any disagreement with the “big dongle” joke. The only disagreement seems to be on the interpretation of “I’d like to fork that man’s repo.” If they said it and laughed, then they meant it as a joke. If it’s supposed to be funny, please explain where the humor lies.
Your refusal to accept Adria Richards’ account borders on perverse. It’s certainly not very civil.
#1257 Markku Hänninen
Manly Man Hyperskeptic is here to mansplain to us ladies, listen up! Bitchez be hysterical! Bitchez be lyin’!
I don’t think you know what ‘implicit’ means.
Actually, I can. Not one single, independent account contradicts her. No one, not even the men making the jokes, disputes the sexual nature of their jokes, despite their own accounts being the perfect way to dispute such a claim.
I have the accounts of four parties. Richards, the two guys, and the PyCon staff that talked the the guys. They all agree. This is a fact.
It is backed up with evidence. I have reasons to hold what I believe to be true.
WHERE’S YOUR FUCKING EVIDENCE?
No evidence means you don’t have a case. You have literally provided nothing. Not one goddamned thing but your stupid opinion which we have dismissed as puerile bullshit.
Markku:
That the conference organisers accepted a breach had occurred is not a supportive account?
FFS.
Who gives a shit whether one can attain absolute certainty?
(You’re really struggling to sustain your opinion when you must rely on epistemic uncertainty for support)
JAL:
Why is hyperskepticism never accompanied by even a modicum of rationality?
I don’t think forking someone’s repo is especially funny, it is more enthustiastic. Like i said earlier , i’m not giggling when forking someones repo, i’m copying code.
Okay dongle joke, someone presents dongle, i say that my dongle is almost big as that dongle. Now it was funny joke about my anatomy, i’m not doing anything sexual with the dongle or dongle sexuality handled it any way. I’m making joke about proportions of my body. While i undersstand that some of us cannot speak about penis size without conneting it to women or having sex, i can. And without the intent, i believe other people can also. It would be sexual if i were to brag about my dongel to women or tell what i do with it. And even then it might not be sexual. If i tell joke about pissing picture in snow, i don’t think it is sexual ieven if i mention my penis in it.
glodson:
Yes, but one of the guys who got in trouble said they didn’t mean anything sexual by saying “I’d like to fork that man’s repo” and laughing.
So obviously, Adria Richards is lying.
John Morales @1263:
What’s the over/under on Markku Hänninen breaking out the problem of induction to justify his stance?
Markku:
Then please explain why they thought it was a joke. They admitted it was, so please don’t try to claim otherwise.
Markku:
You referred to a sexual organ, ergo, the joke is a sexual one. By definition.
#1265 Markku Hänninen
That’s right ladies when Vulcan Skeptic here says “I have a big dongle and know how to use it” it’s not sexual unless it’s his intent. Your feelings be damned, you lyin’ hysterical female with inferior thinking skills!
(Seriously, can you at least try to write coherently? My kindergartener can capitalize and spell better than you.)
Let’s not make strawmen here. MH is simply saying she doesn’t understand what really is sexist and he’s here to make sure we get it all right, even though he’s provided zero evidence. We probably should just take his word for it.
Markku
Didn’t the screen used to say ‘Hardcore Forking Action’? That’s very clearly sexual innuendo which any user would recognise as such. If English is not your first language, perhaps you did not see that message and are thus unaware of that in-joke?
Is Markku now trying to say that discussing penis size is not at all sexual?
Really?!?
I think the statistics show that people making dongle jokes are making them sexually.
(I can make up bullshit about statistics, too)
Hey. Markku, would you like to see my great big long-handled banhammer? I’d like to slap that big head against you.
What?
That’s not innuendo. I’m using a technical term.
I have hard time understanding how you use the word evidence. There is only two meaningful parts of evidence, the statements of Richards and sttatement of the mr hank guy. This evidence does not support each other on all parts, they contradict each other on major issue.
Then there is smaller evidence of statements that were made by PyCon and the respective companies. Thats it. It is all available evidence, rest of this is subjective view of the issue. Ss much as you want, gender studies are not evidence, they are scientific observation and theory, which is not meant to be applicaple in such case that we are discussing about.
Since you admit you have no evidence by not citing a source, your imagufactured claims are *floosh* sent down the drain. Your OPINION is irrelevant. Only what you can evidence from the literature is relevant.
Ah, bullshit, in numbers. Well done.
I give it a .03% chance you have any reason for saying that.
Markku:
It is a fact that a fact which is not known to be a fact can nonetheless be stated as a fact.
So your final probability estimate, having weighed all the information at your disposal, is the same as if you had no information about it whatsoever?
<snicker>
Markku:
Do you have a job? If so, does your workplace have a sexual harassment policy in place? If yes, have you read it?
Damnit, you people keep making me feel like I’m 12 years old again, but,
ahahaahahaahaha *wipes tear*
Markku:
No. They don’t.
He made a joke. They both agree on that. The one who got in trouble claims he didn’t mean anything sexual by it. She heard it as a sexual joke. The accounts both line up. At most, there’s a misunderstanding of intent. There’s no contradiction at all, and the fact you are trying to make it a contradiction belies your weak argument.
What? You provide nothing, and then when we demonstrate that the jokes were sexual in nature and undermine the place of women in the workplace, that is not applicable. That’s not evidence? The sociology studying this very topic is not evidence as the net effect of this behavior even though it is based on this very fucking topic!?
@Caine, Fleur du mal
So now i’m a rapist and a racist lol.
If anything I am reverse sexist, I throw a house party 3 times a week, for guys there is 10- or 15$ entrance fee depending on the day and girls 5$ or 10 but if you are sexy enough enough to give the doorguy or me a boner you get in free. (I supply the drinks free for everyone) I’m am showing a clear favoritism to women.
When a girl shows up after walking a 3rd of a mile in just her panties and a men’s dress shirt do you really think she doesn’t want to be objectified? The amount of women who show up in what is basically Lingerie is kind of shocking. They want to get drunk and grind on random guys. How does giving people what they want, (A nice safe place to get drunk socialize and fuck ) make me sexist?
When a a girl is wearing a bikini in march and has just downed half a dozen shots of vodka and decides she wants to blow me do you consider that rape? I’m not forcing these girls into a dark room after they are passed out and having my way with them, they know what they are doing and they like it, I have a cam in basically every room the house to make sure no one is doing anything too stupid and for evidence if the need arises.
If I was not doing it someone else would be, because it is easy money and fun.
No you aren’t. If you were, you wouldn’t need to specify a body part. YOU WERE MAKING A DIRECT REFERENCE TO YOUR PENIS. Now, most men use their penises for sex and urination. (Perhaps you use yours as a pen, I don’t know.) Given that penis size is irrelevant to peeing, that leaves…sexual innuendo!
No prob, gotta go sleep anyway, work tomorrow.
While i do understand that you are loyal to people who hang around here more than random dudes, one could hope that there would be some reaction to attacks against person, even if people think that the other people are not entitled to civil behavior because of their faults
Thanks for the points of view you gave me, this takes some serious thinking to go through. I think myself quite moderate and enlightenent when it comes to equality and sexism, but it seems there is still huge gap between me and some groups of people. I hope that gap can be bridged.
Maybe in future we will hear what is the truth in this issue and if i was wrong, i’ll come here and publicly admit it.
-Markku
[OT]
docfreeride above, heh.
(I reckon not without a bit of Googling)
Fuck you, don’t care.
John Jackson:
Nope. No sexism or misogyny here.
You might not know the difference between slander and libel, but please tell me you know what “own goal” means.
Yes, you’re not sexist at all.
Tell me, please: is your ignorance willful or are you truly that dense?
That is sexist.
You have admitted that you get women drunk so they cannot say no. That is rape.
Markku:
You’ve already been proven wrong, and you’re doing everything you can to keep from publicly admitting it. Even the bits you presented as evidence worked against you.
So I’m not holding my breath.
Markku:
Sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting, “No, no, no, no, I can’t hear you,” is not a way to hear about reality.
Tell me, JJ, do you know what “objectified” means? I’ll tell you, and charitable assume that your ignorance one the issue isn’t deliberate.
It doesn’t mean “checking women out”. It means to be treated as an object. To be treated as not human. A half naked woman may very well want sex. That doesn’t mean she want’s to be treated as your personal fucktoy.
@nigelTheBold, also Avo
Not really 100% sure to be honest.
But its a win win situation, the girls want to get drunk and be objectified and grinded on by men and they get to free of charge, I want to party with the hottest girls on campus and make money. Everyone comes out a winner.
Just curious, what should I do differently? Give me a suggestion on how I could do what i’m doing better and I might try it i’m not a close minded person.
[meta]
John Jackson, what you are is a sad specimen begging for attention. What you see as bragging I see as a desperate attempt to salve your ego due to the treatment it has received here.
Your contentions were vapid and reactionary, and have been soundly trounced, and you imagine telling your Walter Mitty fantasies will give you some sort of status.
Here, you are nothing but a chew-toy by now, and if it’s yourself you want to discuss and attention you seek, I’m happy to oblige — as this little monition indicates.
Do people really not understand that any vocabulary, of any technicality, of any kind, can be used in double entendre.
You think accounting’s dull? Well, you might use mergers, takeovers, activities, arm’s length transaction, assets and a dozen other terms. I’ve heard stupid year 9 level sexual jokes using some of these words and expressions. Despite the nerdy reputation of accountants (or maybe because of it) there is never any doubt when an exchange using technical terms moves into the clumsy dance steps of double entendre.
Markku is far too boring to read.
JJ seems to think that success and wealth have to do with power and money.
We deserve better trolls.
Markku:
8 Gigafucks, you say? Oh baby.
Now I’m presuming some other things about you.
Yeah, presuming. Bad of me, I know. Bet I’m right tho.
#1284 John Jackson
Nothing fucking funny about it.
Ah, yes the “Ladies Nights at clubs means not sexist!”. Oh, wait why is there Ladies Nights again? Oh, right because women are seen as product to see to men and just use at fuck toys. Nope, no sexism there.
1. Too drunk to consent= no consent = rape.
2. Fucking creepy. You probably just jack off to all of it. I hope you get caught, convicted and sentenced for a long time to protect society from you.
No such thing, Cupcake. Really, stop cheating.
Except you, the women, and everyone else involved. It’s a lose-lose situation.
You could treat women as human beings rather than objects to be used.
There are multiple people on this blog who have experienced objectification, in its most ugly and violent form. I know, from personal experience, what it feels like. You are a sexist and rapist. No doubt in my mind.
So, John Jackson, you’re a rapist, you’re a shyster and you’re running a brothel.
And you think that’s going to make us even more impressed by your loveliness?
Yes. It is.
Jafafa Hots:
Glad I’m not alone. It’s terribly pathetic when someone thinks knowing about tor makes them cool. Or worse, dangerous.
@John Morales
You said that about my car, house and bank account and I already provided evidence that you are just jealous that someone you don’t like is so successful, its perfectly understandable. I wonder what your next thing will be when show you a house full of college people and the stack of money i’m going to make? Maybe resort to calling me racist again? People will start showing up at 8:30 ish and I will be sure to prove you wrong again.
arbor @1298:
If only we had conserved them when analysts first predicted that we were approaching Peak Troll!
And you know, as disappointing as the trolls are here, there are blogs in poorer countries that have no trolls at all.
Not raping people would be a start…
of a very long list.
Stop breathing? If you can’t be arsed to actually learn or think and are happy to be a rapist, you aren’t helping, honey.
If there is no consent, it is rape. If she is too drunk to consent, it is rape. You are a rapist.
Docfreeride:
Hahahahahahahahahaha. Oh, I wish you had free time all the time.
You know, at this point, it would be tempting to think that John Jackson is a Poe.
Unfortunately, I know people who genuinely talk and act like he does, so it’s entirely possible he’s not.
Is JJ american?
Since legal drinking age is 21, and JJ the douche with a silver spoon in his mouth claims to be 19, it sounds like he urgently needs a visit from his local vice squad.
I won’t be holding my breath. You have no honesty and integrity.
zmidponk:
A lot of the shit he’s smearing all over isn’t all that different to many of the university-aged men interviewed in Guyland, by Michael Kimmel.
I picked up a flavour of this before, not sure whether it was Markku that time or not.
These jokes did not occur in private. They were within a large social group, in this particular case a professional conference.
What you’re really arguing here is that every. single. instance. of this kind of behaviour is complete unto itself and it is not only irrelevant but wrong to place such social behaviours into a larger social context. Let alone to notice that there might be, gasp!, a pattern to such behaviours. If that is your position, I’m not very sorry to tell you, you’re wrong. It is perfectly legitimate for individuals, groups and academics to look at instances of certain behaviours and see if they fit a known pattern, or are unusual in some way, or are worthy of closer examination to refine a known pattern.
Hate to tell you this, but these guys behaving like this are demonstrating an all too common pattern, there’s nothing unusual about them or their behaviour, all too boringly familiar, and they don’t even provide any new insights worth a closer look.
Ah, gee, now I feel bad that I don’t kno- what’s this? Two seconds of googling found the answer? Golly gee, I feel super cool now!
#1313 zmidponk
Isn’t the whole point of Poe’s Law that you CAN’T tell from a real believer from someone doing it for shits & giggles or trolling?
@JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness
I’m going to be just a wasted as them, if I get drunker then them and smoke a few blunts would they be raping me?? They are free to leave at anytime, no one is forcing anyone to stay.
John Jackson:
Put it this way; the closer to reality any of that were, the worse a person you’d show yourself to be. What’s not in question is your emotional neediness.
—
But sure, show me. Because I sure don’t believe you.
I call you a bullshitter.
@Caine, Fleur du mal
I wonder what would happen if I pretend to black out and some girl is shown groping me on video. Could I have her arrested for sexual assault?
i’ll repeat for jayjay. We are not jealous of you. You’re not a success. You’re a rapist and a house pet
Jayjay if you need women drunk because you’re that lazy you’re in no danger of women ravishing you.
No one is that impressed with your dongle
Also no I still don’t believe your bullshit
@John Morales
what exactly am I lying about so know how to prove you wrong?
How, Cupcake? By killing your parents? You already told us all your money comes from mommy and daddy. You already bragged about your inheritance. You don’t have the requisite skills to make money. FFS, you can barely form a proper sentence.
@jayjay
Shorter list is what we’d believe is true. So far that you’re male and a jackass. We believe that.
My take? 13 14 year old internet tough guy
Ing:
A very badly trained house pet at that.
@caine
He’s got bitcoin. If he gets 100 that’s a free life!
JOHN JACKSON IS AN INTERNET POLE*. and should be dismissed forthwith.
(*his spelling not mine)
also ffs get a clue. If we cared about money as prime motivator we wouldn’t be people in sciences or arts or humanities. Duh.
Ing:
Oh, yes. *cough* *coughcough* *coughcoughcough* Er, excuse me…
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Ing:
Better than 19-year-old froshling trying to pretend that partying like a rock star is a substitute for growing up.
Hey JJ, list three of the signs of alcohol overdose.
@nightshadequeen
I guess I really should know this, I have only had to deal with 2 instances of it i’m not really an expert.
@Caine, Fleur du mal
I will make money by continuing to be the business prodigy I already am. My parents did not “give” me any money. I got 70k from WORKING two summers at my at my dads company and I made the rest of my fortune though genius investments that have put that have put the so called experts to shame and hustling. I have provided evidence of this yet you still want to deny that I have a natural talent for making money
@Ing:Intellectual Terrorist “Starting Tonight, People will Whine”
Your jelly man, just admit it. I bet you are thinking why you couldn’t have the drive to succeed and business savy that I obviously do? Im sorry but some people just don’t have it in them. :( The world need janitors and fry cooks to.
OK, this entitled little shit deserves to be banned, brought back bunnified and banned again just for being unashamed to say this out loud.
@Jacob Schmidt
Knowing what tor is doesn’t make you any smarter then knowing what the “difference”racism and prejudice are. I only brought it up because people thought you were gona somehow trace my ip and expose me on face book or someother nonsense.
Sponging off your overly indulgent parents doesn’t count as work, Cupcake. I’m rather astonished you found the time to “work” for a whole two summers, what with you being so busy partying and raping and counting your bathrooms.
Wow….
Where I come from, you don’t throw parties containing alcohol unless you have at least one (preferably far more) sober people who know a) what an overdose looks like and b) exactly what to do if an overdose occurs.
Here are the eight signs:
Confusion, stupor
Vomiting
Seizures
Slow breathing (less than eight breaths a minute)
Irregular breathing (a gap of more than 10 seconds between breaths)
Blue-tinged skin or pale skin
Low body temperature (hypothermia)
Unconsciousness (“passing out”), and can’t be roused
As for what to do:
If someone’s passed out, not breathing right (less than eight breaths per minute or more than 10 seconds per breath), has a very rapid, fluttery pulse, or can’t stop throwing up, call the paramedics. Immediately. If xie is unconscious, get xie into the recovery position.
Xie (especially xie’s breathing) should be monitored. If xie ever stops breathing, have a sober, CPR-certified person begin CPR. (You have at least one of these at your parties, right?)
If any of the other signs occur, call poison control – 800-222-1222 (in the U.S.) and they’ll tell you what to do.
Chris:
I don’t think you’ll encounter any disagreement, Chris.
$35000 per summer.
What on earth do you do for that? Bomb disposal, wind turbine maintenance, brain surgery? The mind boggles.
Zomfg.
AE:
You win best summary and reaction.
So you had to do some chores to get your pocket money? Yeah, that’s super impressive, that is.
@Chris Clarke
How am I entitled? Your fucking delusional, you are making irrational assumptions based on the endless supply of shit you keep pulling out of your ass. I worked 10 hours a fucking day basically 6 days a week. Most of the money I got was from rewards due to meeting the SEO goals I had assured not just my dad but the board I could meet and very successful online promotion campaign I spearheaded. I did more for my dads companys online presence in one fucking summer than most of the veterans have done over their career. I was underpaid if anything.
mildlymagnificent:
The only one of those that might pull down that kind of money for a couple of months is a brain surgeon, and that would only apply after they spent years on end paying off their monstrous school loans and established themselves in private practice. So…no on any of them.
So, you’re a parasite. Not surprising, Cupcake.
Caine: My eyes are seriously bugging the fuck out. If it weren’t so repellent, I think I might laugh.
The 35k summer for daddy is sort of like John Jackson’s Waterloo.
But, like, John J. Is Napoleon.
Caine, you don’t think JJ is the brain surgeon type?
(Personally, I make him for more of an orthopedist.*)
* Apologies to smart orthopedists in the audience. A few bad orthopods can mess with your priors.
JJ the investment wanker.
Ok. Now I’m laughing.
Spearhead this, meathead!
Jesus.
Omfg…..dudebro spends the day drawing us a picture of his life as an entitled, smarmy, sexist, lying, criminal, douchebiscuit and then asks how he is entitled.
@mildy and the other with the business sense of squirrels .
Do you seriously think that my dad could justify paying me for sitting on my ass? Do you think that is what actually happens in the corporate world? Me and this genius Indian girl placed second in our field at my state science fair. We came up with a SEO algorithm and network strategy that was able to get great results on Google and decent results on yahoo the other competitors. I took what I learned and presented it to my dad who allowed me to present it to the board. Do you think that a real business would let some idiot come in and just take 35k?, I exceeded the benchmarks and earned every penny.
Why is John Jackson so desperate for people to be impressed? Is he really that insecure?
No. No way would your dad pay you for sitting on your ass. You were like spearheading shit all day long. MVer successful online promotion campaigns and shit.
JJ:
Why not point daddy at this thread and ask him to come in and defend your redoubtable integrity and all-round magnificence?
(That would definitely show me!)
And lets not forget exceeding benchmarks.
Benchmark! look! U just got exceeded. How you like me now, benchmark?
How about this contact a company and tell them you can get them double listed in a semi competitive field. Come up with a thoughtful presentation and say you only want 30k and only want the money if you meet the preset benchmarks. They will give you a job in a heart beat.
Hmm, sounds more like you stole “genius indian girls” intellectual property.
Par for the course for lying sexist scum like JJ.
Docfreeride:
No, no I don’t. My neurosurgeon is an arrogant ass much of the time, but she knows what the fuck she’s doing, she considers me intelligent and doesn’t talk down to me in the least and she earns every penny. She’s also compassionate and capable of empathy. (Bad spine). Somehow, I don’t see little John in such a field. Surprising, eh?
Ahahaha, the dipshit doesn’t understand sarcasm. Colour me surprised.
Yes. Prove me wrong.
@John Morales
I would be fucked if my dad saw this. But its the fucking internet and im a 120 year old Alaskan come at me
AE:
With many bathrooms! And much alcohol! And girls to rape! And people to use! And pays for others to do his schoolwork! No friends, though.
JJ
Wait, you tweaked google search results? Tell me that’s not all. For that, you claim you’re a genius?
JJ:
So you asked how, I told you how, now you weasel out of it.
(Ask me how I know you’re a bullshitter)
John:
Why not indeed. I’d be quite interested in Daddy’s take.
Sorry, cupcake. I spent a few decades working with accountancy. I can assure you that you’re not alone. And yes. Plenty of spouses, children and other relatives of company owners do the same as you – or nearly nothing – for the same kind of money.
Good to see you put in some hours. Though I have some trouble understanding how this vital activity could have survived between these two summers if your input was so essential. But I’m not involved so that’s just a curiosity.
comedy gold here! hee hee hee…
17-year-old business wunderkind. Yeah, just keeps getting more and more believable.
JJ’s vocabulary has failed him again. He seems to have forgotten the word ‘nepotism’.
Like I said. House pet. You didn’t work or get hired on your own merits you got treats for doing a few token roll overs for daddy.
Again if things where a measure of success to me I woul have gone into business school when I had the chace. Lots of my peers from highschool did.
Oh wait I almost forgot
Any idiot? Of course not.
The idiot who is the boss’ kid? They’d be putting their own jobs on the line not to.
So you’re also admitting that your dad isn’t proud of your behavior? That at least clears a little bit up – I wasn’t sure if you were a rich entitled brat because of your personality or because of your upbringing. There’s one thing you can put in the column of your own achievements, at least.
1337
Chris Clarke
HAHAHA*whew* I SO needed that. I’m all for this tactic.
That’s because he paid other people to take his vocab tests for him.
Fucking hell.
If daddy has the pull to get junior in front of the board then he’s got the pull to make the board members wary of him. Yup, that’s a situation in which merits are going to be discussed with perfect objectivity.
And why the hell is it that “a head for business” always equates to “callous willingness to exploit others”? Why, tis enough to make one lose faith in capitalism.
[meta]
I note that granting their claim, either “John Jackson” is a pseudonym or John Jackson is piteously naive about the internet.
Jacob:
What vocabulary?
if daddy found out will he lose his rape privledges or be sent to his puppy crate?
John Jackson is a fake name, tied to a fake facebook account. His account is nothing but comments about Ron Paul.
Jacob:
Gee, what a surprise.
Who would have thunk…
RON PAUL I’M SHOCKED
Actually I am. Isn’t Ron Paul and his stupid gold standard like the polar opposite of idiocy of bitcoin?
Poor lil’ thing. Do you think he really does believe that he’s a special genius snowflake and that he got his summer job just on his own merits?
Still laughing. Thanks guys. :D
Caine
Point taken.
Ing
Maybe. But Ron Paul is also the Lord and Saviour of dumbass college kids who can’t be bothered to think past their own privilege.
Carlie:
Whether or not he’s telling the truth (and there’s considerable reason to think he’s not), I’d say it’s obvious he’s utterly convinced of his special genius “I’m a god! Rawr!” snowflakiness.
[meta]
Jacob, obviously at this point “John Jackson” is just here to stir the shit so someone at least responds to them. AKA a chew-toy.
(That the responses are pity and disgust isn’t a factor, such is their neediness)
—
JJ, frankly, your piteous need for absolution is irrelevant and your repugnant ideas are already well-established.
—The actual post to which we are commenting, by PZ Myers–
Here we go again. The Adria Richards story has settled into a couple of common themes, and Ars echoes the conventional wisdom. I’m very disappointed in this lazy editorial.
First, look at this nonsense:
It’s no longer acceptable, but it’s common? Huh. Somebody didn’t think about what they were writing. We’ll just announce that the problem is nonexistent, while sweeping the reality of the situation aside.
But I’d like to point out something sneakier. Here’s the common message:
I think we all agree 100% that no one ought to have been fired over this incident. The major villains here are the two companies that used this event as an excuse to axe a couple of employees.
But notice what else everyone is saying: what the two guys did was trivial and minor, “’0.5: classless brospeak’ on the seismic scale of harassing/menacing behavior toward women”. Keep that in mind for a moment. That kind of thing has been said a lot.
It’s a “relatively minor issue”. OK, let’s go along with that for a moment…let’s say it really was an inconsequential, negligible faux pas by the two guys. But if that’s the case, what is this bullshit?
Was it something to be ashamed of, or not? Was it a horrible, embarrassing thing to publicize, or was it a “relatively minor issue”? You don’t get to have it both ways. Either it was too damaging to make public, or it was a slight affront that shouldn’t seriously affect any of the participants — it was a minute impropriety that was perfectly reasonable to mention on a casual, conversational medium like Twitter.
This is what’s really pissing me off right now: the flagrant dishonesty of all these people having the vapors over someone posting a photo on Twitter and saying someone’s behavior was “not cool”. Jesus. Have they ever fucking used Twitter? It’s non-stop chatter — just today I’ve been accused of being a “Nazi” and of being “evil”. Please, Ars Technica, do your tut-tut routine right now over all the naughty people ‘Twitter shaming’ right and left. Please also express your sadness that thousands of tweets are going up right now ‘Twitter shaming’ Adria Richards in far more outrageous terms than “not cool.”
Are people seriously proposing that somehow Twitter should be policed for manners, and we should start wagging our fingers at people who dare to rebuke others via that medium? If so, half my correspondents are going to have to shut up. This is ridiculous. Richards’ comment was minor, was appropriate, and was addressing a real issue in a reasonable way.
And then there’s this:
It’s only hyperbole if you misinterpret it. No, I doubt Richards thought these two guys were going to run up on the stage and slap awards off the podium and denounce the young girl being recognized. Richards was referring to a culture that considers those kinds of off-color remarks reasonable in a professional setting. Remember, “it’s still common”. That is what inhibits women from participating in these opportunities.
We’re living in a world where those off-color jokes are dismissed as “classless brospeak”, not worth making a fuss over, while someone tweeting a picture of someone engaging in “classless brospeak” is a disproportionate response, and “makes it harder to have a sincere discussion about misogyny and men’s/women’s issues in the workplace”.
But unwanted sexual innuendo doesn’t? Both men and women make jokes about sex, of course, and there’s a tricky line to be drawn between what’s appropriate and what isn’t, but one of the things I’m seeing all over the place is that in the conversation about where to draw the line, women are expected to shut up; that when they do speak up, however mildly, and say “not cool” or “guys, don’t do that”, boom, the guyverse explodes and denounces the damned uppity woman in either the most furious and violent terms possible, or with polite little suggestions that maybe they should be quieter next time.
But you know, the latter is almost as bad as the former. It’s the privilege of the majority to use politeness to maintain the status quo, while it’s a necessity for the minority to assert the right to offend.
this is all I have to say about that, because really, how much more of a posterchild for “spoiled privileged brat” can you be?
My name is Jafafa J. Hots, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
That’s not to say that little John doesn’t have the flakiness part down.
Jafafa Hots:
Yabbut how many bathrooms do you have?
Quite an entertaining chew-toy at that. The dumbass couldn’t even upload a legible bank statement.
Caine:
Heehee.
He’s halfway to being filthy rich! :)
Oh Jafafa, I hadn’t heard that in forever. Nice.
If John isn’t one of these kids, it’s obviously his aspiration.
#1391
Jafafa Hots
Now having more threads about Jafafa Hots is something I can get behind.
See, we aren’t predujiced or “jelly” of rich people, we even love and pay tribute to our own millionaire. ;P
@Caine, Fleur du mal
The vocabulary that is making me just under 6 figures at 19.
@FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist)
You have no idea what your talking about, SEO and web promotion is not cheap. I gave my dads company a bargain for services that they desperately needed, but due what I consider serve incompetence was ignored far long then any reasonable people should have allowed. I made sure that everyone of even a little influence (deserved or not) saw me in a way that reflected my ridiculously high value. I had to suck up to incompetent dipshits who shouldn’t be allowed to manage a Burger King for two summers, it is mind boggling how these tools managed to get into their positions. If I was running the company I could have lowered overhead by at least 25% with no lose in revenue.
PZ is so mean saving the best jayjay jisms for himself.
YOUR GRAMMAR IS SO AWFUL IT IS MAKING MY EYE TWITCH.
God. Obviously you haven’t learned much.
Cool story bro
Actually, funnily enough, I grew up in a house with three full baths and two half baths.
Designed by a protege of Frank Lloyd Wright.
But no, we weren’t wealthy. Far from it. And that was BEFORE everything went to shit.
MY YACHT HAS A MILLION BATHROOMS. I SWEAR TO GOD IT’S TRUE.
Nepotism is making you all that money. Your vocabulary is getting you laughed at.
Way too easy. My mocking has standards.
Tell me, if your so gosh-darned awesome, and everyone saw your “ridiculously high value”, why don’t you just go work for daddy’s company?
Now, see, if PZ went around banning every clueless racist would-be rapist rich boy asshole, we would all be deprived of such excellent entertainment.
Alina, nice try, but I don’t think anyone can really compete with JJ in terms of making people laugh.
Carlie:
I sympathise. The mere idea that this twit is taking up space in a school when there are so many people with brains who would love to have that opportunity, let alone have it paid for, is disgusting.
It does go to show that confessing to felonies on the internet doesn’t require an education. Or a functioning brain.
I also haven’t been to Alcatraz. But I should go, it’s right nearby.
Is…is Alina joking?
Hello, Reap. Having a nice day? We’re busy being entertained by a sleazy snowflake. Bye now.
#1410
Jacob Schmidt
Doubt. She’s not the first ignorant dumbfuck to bring up that incident, (several times in this thread alone ) even though PZ clarified later he didn’t just randomly pull a woman out of a crowd. It was set up prior with the woman in full knowledge and a willing participant.
Yeah, that was my first thought too, that it was Reap Paden morphing yet again. But who knows? There’s no end of assholes out there.
1411
Caine, Fleur du mal
AHHHHHHHHH. That makes sense. They copy that screed and has been posted in the Lounge too.
Hahahahahahahahaha. Oh my. Douchecake, all you’ll ever do in life is lose, even if you spend it riding on someone else’s coattails. Now, when you’re out in the world (read: Daddy’s company), make sure you offer an excellent salary and benefits package to whoever is going to get stuck making you sound comprehensible and of average intelligence. They are the one who will deserve a fortune.
So you got paid what amounts to 3K per week for SEO work when you demonstrably can’t spell, parse or construct a sentence, recognize the fact that you’re talking to a new person, or understand basic logical thought.
That’s really hard to believe, and I’ve hired and fired some incredibly stupid SEO drones.
Either you’re a liar or you’re second up against the wall with a blindfold and a cigarette come the revolution. (After PZ’s economizing bankers.)
“Alina Karapandzich”, your wannabe trolling trollishness is too overt for the three-comment rule to apply to you.
(Such incompetence indicates you don’t really grok true trolling)
I own a mansion and a yacht, and a condo down in Boca.
And I got a spearhead for ya right here.
[yes, I’ve been re-watching ‘The Sopranos’, how did you know?]
I assume that it is a member of the slimepit, or a dungeon member who is sockpuppeting as “Alina”.
Caine is very likely correct that it is Reap Paden, who is extra hateful as far as internet trolls go, and obsessed with PZ.
Alina Karapandzich,
Old news.
See here.
You should be able to afford an economy-sized clue then.
good eye; it’s Paden.
dumbshit.
Chris, please don’t ban him yet. This is far too much fun.
JJ, if you aren’t simply playing us (and my estimate is that you are 10 to 12), you have zero integrity, zero work ethic, zero knowledge, and zero self-esteem.
You certainly don’t know a thing about algorithms.
I think that you’re describing what you imagine is a college dude’s wet dream, even though you can’t experience wet dreams yourself yet.
I’m rarely this nasty, but I really hope that your life is exactly as you describe it.
You deserve it.
JAL
Ah, ok. I just read like something I would write to mock Reap.
Chas:
Oooooh, good spelling, properly constructed sentences and emphasis. *Bats eyelashes*
@mildlymagnificent
Surviving does not equal thriving, the company has severe mismanagement on basically ever level. One of the few thing I learned besides realizing a multi-million dollar company could probably be managed just as well if not better by janitors, every race and sex has people who are lazy entitled losers who are more then happy to pass of their work to someone else. For the entire summer this Ethiopian lady was doing literally half the real work of her entire five person division. It was fucking obvious that if she was working with a semi competent partner you could fire the other 4 bums give both of them a 25% raise and lose nothing of value. But no that shit was still going on when I came back next year after I pointed it out anyone who would fucking listen.
And LOL hai guyz were barely profitable 6 month ago but check this out we better buy new computers to replace the computers that are barely 3 years old so people can facebook and tweet faster.
Sounds like a Reap Peat of white hot PZ hating.
AE:
Snappity snap Snap!
My eyes are drawn over and over again to the bolded part…
actually, I lied. I have one more thing to say about it: but unless you know German, you won’t get it
Jafafa – as long as you aren’t a wascally wabbit!
John, you’re rambling now. Aren’t you supposed to be hosting a party? Or finding somewhere to buy your midterm papers from?
Hey JJ why don’t you post up your personal details so we can check out your real value? It’s not like we’ll send you death and rape threats or anything like that. Double dare you to prove you’re not just a whiny boy in your mom’s basement.
Carlie:
Hey, that’s the pinnacle of being a genius millionaire who owns a mansion and a yacht!
@arbor
I showed my account with 75k in it. I showed a picture of my btc wallet with 950 coins worth around 80k in it, I showed my house and car title. Im 12 and worth 155k right? And in 40 min i’m going to show why 50+ people are going to pay to party me.
John Jackson: There are 1000+ people laughing at your sorry ass right this second.
Walter Mitty is in full bloom, I see.
—
Hey, JJ: did you know that Ars Technica weighs in on Adria Richards, and flaunts a double-standard?
(You got nothing to say about that, do ya?)
Rich, coming from someone who doesn’t know how to work at all. I’m sure it didn’t dawn on you that most of the other employees don’t much care for incompetent assholes who they are forced to work with, thanks to nepotism.
As for managing a Burger King? What would know about that job, Cupcake? Seeing as you don’t work and all. Given your demonstrated people skills, I’m confident in saying that you would be unable to manage a Burger King for a week, let alone two whole summers.*
*Why do I get the distinct feeling that summers are like dog years to you?
1423
Jacob Schmidt
That was my bad, I didn’t recognize the signs of Reaping. I usually just scroll past his indescribable walls of text, so I assumed Alaina was just another parroting dumbfuck. I’m way past being shocked and just assuming they are assholes at this point – it’s been proven right enough so my hair trigger is ready to go.
I hope you pay the person who edits your assignments for you very well, given your complete inability to English.
@ Caine, Fleur du mal
I probably wont have a yacht till i’m 24 at the rate i’m going, maybe 23. Whats your worth
@ Caine, Fleur du mal
I probably wont have a yacht till i’m 24 at the rate i’m going, maybe 23. When you gona get ur boat
delurking, I think JJ just called his daddy a fuckup. That’s not very nice.
If he is a fraud, you have to salute his persistence. That alone is a monumental effort.
Caine’s worth is a million magical unicorns, plus the entire universe and all the people in it, plus all the other amazing things you’re too limited to imagine.
To you, Caine’s worth is nothing.
That’s because you are nothing.
Oh no JJ, I do indeed know what I’m talking about.
You see, I was a manager in a moderately sized company (private, family run) for twenty years. I hired, trained and fired hundreds of employees over those years. I used to get cold-called almost daily by people trying to provide the service you claim to have done for Daddy’s company. Hell, even now when I own my own (tiny and I like it that way) company my inbox is flooded with such offers.
What got you that job was not your awesome skillz. (How much did your Asian co-developer get paid BTW?) What got you that job was Daddy putting you in front of the board. Out in the real world you would be competing with all those others and if your performance here is any indication you’d lose to the first applicant who had as good a presentation and who wasn’t an over-confident, entitled little shit.
As to being a callous douchecanoe willing to exploit others, well, your response to me did not do what you think it did. Your contempt for your fellow employee’s speaks directly to the notion that you are just such a callous individual.
But hey, thanks for the laugh, at least you brightened one day with your obliviousness.
SallyStrange, meh. He will come off his high at some point.
And you probably haven’t eaten a meal out that didn’t contain someone else’s donated mucus since you were 17.
Am I missing something, or is John Jackson really boasting about being paid fucktons of money briefly working for a company that massively overspends on everything, due to chronic mismanagement by his dad?
So this know-nothing gets to freeload off company payroll because his dad’s high up, while millions are unemployed through no fault of their own, but I’m the evil one for trying to change the system? Ah, jackasses.
What kinda irresponsible jackass buys a yacht? Gas is a commodity being wasted enough as is.
Well, he did pull strings to hire JJ. It’s kinda true.
It’s like a bizarre form of performance art.
In which I am participating. And at which I am laughing.
Fascinating!
@ caine
Why the fuck would I work at burger king? My time is worth at least 10x more then the 10$ an hour I would be getting paid. Im 19 and I have already shown you I am already 10x as successful at life then are you.
@Jadehawk
He writes the whole thing them for me I hate writing and grammer. Whats the point?
Ha. You’re a drain on society. What value?
Catchphrase!
1446
Chris Clarke
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BURN!
[Reads post missed while composing]
Oh, and to head it off at the pass:
I make enough to keep my family healthy, happy and provide them with everything they need. Any more money than that is just extra effort for no real, tangible gain.
JJ sayd:
Little Dude,
Anyone can find a cock picture on the internet and claim it is his/hers.
No one believes anything you say.
Very few would be silly enough to click on any link you’d provide.
If you have been telling the truth to us, you are pathetic and a waste of space.
If you have been lying to us, you are pathetic and a waste of space.
Pay someone to read this post for you and tell you what you are.
For some reason, I’m reminded of this study:
I wonder what put that into my mind.
1450
John Jackson
The point is that when your dad crashed and burns taking his money with him, you’re fucking screwed.
I really, really hope that happens. If not, when the revolution comes, I’ll be coming for you.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Douchecake, you had best hope your daddy never retires. If you get your hands on any company, it will crash and burn. The only way you could possibly succeed is to pay others to run a company, while you had your “party’s”.
JJ ejaculated:
Little Dude,
You wouldn’t understand the words I’d use to describe my worth.
yeeeeaaaaahhh
N-E-P-O-T-I-S-M
There. I spelled it for you. Now look it up.
Jacob Schmidt @1404:
Didn’t Scalzi have something awhile ago about how John Jackson was the easiest troll-mockery setting?
Iknorite? “my daddy is mismanaging his business and hiring idiots; also, I earned 3K a week on merit at that company my daddy is mismanaging”
lol
no way in hell cupcake isn’t a performance piece
JJ:
You realise you’ve just literally written that if you are, so are they?*
(A true genius at communication, you’re not)
—
* Rhetorical question, to which the answer is ‘no’.
good times.
@ FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist)
One of the Directors got me an opportunity to do basically the same thing again for 25k, which I turned down. I am going to forward them to my sci fair partner though (she was Indian). I got bigger things im going to be working on, 25k is not worth my time right now.
JJ’s posts have made my day.
JJ reminds me of one applicant I had that told me in the interview: “I want your job”. I think they thought that statement would show initiative, drive, and can-do spirit. Out of perversity and/or lack of anyone better I hired them.
They lasted a month and a half before the owner told me to fire “That idiot”.
You see, they charged around telling everyone else how to do their jobs, people who’d been doing the job for years and understood it’s nuances and intricacies, rather than doing their own job. No one, and I mean not a single person, lifted a finger to help them learn the ropes. Funny that. One employee bought me a dozen chocolate cupcakes as a thank you for getting rid of the idiot. And I shared them with all the staff on duty as a “sorry” for having hired the fucker in the first place.
yeah fossilfishy, she was Indian, not Asian. Who knows what she’s now, though.
I was no great Frasier fan, but Sideshow Bob is acting for the ages.
(Also, if JJ hates writing, I cannot imagine the torment he is enduring to keep composing comments for our entertainment.)
SallyStrange:
Aaaaw. ♥
Little John, I’m not a greedy, loathsome asshole. Why in the hell would I want a yacht? I don’t need to impress anyone, and I wouldn’t be comfortable adding to the problems of resource and climate, they are bad enough already. I have a house, paid for all at once, it’s more than large enough, I have a vehicle I’m just crazeh about, I have a career I *love*, enough money to be content, safe and happy, I have actual friends, and most important of all, I have a partner and best friend, who has been by my side for over 34 years. I have no doubt at all that that all sounds ever so “ick” to you, but you are sadly mistaken that I (or anyone else) cares about that. You fail to impress. The only thing anyone here cares about is whether or not you’re a decent human being. You aren’t one.
Indian, apologies to your probably mythical partner.
So, it would appear that you want to be perceived as a compassionate person, judging by the one thing in my post you chose to respond to.
So how about this: how about you demonstrate that compassion by ceasing to profit from the encouragement and facilitation of rape?
I have been laughing at JJ’s flailing around the thread, trying to convince us that he is just so awesome because pool table/ giant TV / cheats at college brags about it, etc…
But he sounds more and more like the rich kids I grew up with who were raised by hired help, and would have given away every expensive gift in exchange for attention from their absent parents.
Now I am starting to pity him. :(
@John Morales
Im pre drinking, and fuck grammer and proper syntax.
Who else is worth over 100k? Just me ?
Im out seeya
Ten bucks says if daddy’s boy gets his yacht, he won’t learn what red, green, and white lights mean even after he drives into another boat.
Eeeuuw. Didn’t your daddy teach you to hoggle in private, douchebiscuit? You certainly don’t have class and I hate to break this to you, but that’s something you can’t buy.
No, stop, don’t, come back.
Canadian.
Stick the flounce, junior!
Caine, Alina K sighting in the Lounge.
Hey now, I’m Canadian and I’m real, er, I think.
What der hey?
Nerd:
Got it. Thunderdome too. Alert sent, might take a while, PZ just got off his flight. Thank you.
Assuming she actually exists, if JJ is even half the arsehole he’s made himself out to be in this thread, I’m putting my money on ‘as far away from him as possible’.
I can’t figure out whether this or the showing the scan of your mensa card is more pathetic. Johnny here is a perfect specimen for a case-study on instrumental-rational action and the iron cage.
FossilFishy:
Nuh huh. Not anymore, right mate? ;D
JJ:
<snicker>
You’ve been borderline illiterate all along, fool.
Think the bitcoin thing is even more pathetic.
Especially if he’s mining them with a power-hungry i7 processor.
Jadehawk:
Well, they’re both pathetic. Basing your personal worth on money is pathetic and gauche; I think it wins over the mensa card scan by just a tad because there seems to be a sense that intellectual poverty is grand, as long as you have bitcoin.
a rich dude who has to “pre drink”? calling bullshit on this kid
Jadehawk:
Hey, he’s got to get his rape face on!
If I may nitpick, he never actually showed us his bitcoins. Or his Ferraroghini.
@FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist)
Im going to claim at least a 5% finders or mangers fee or something.
Ohhhh wait before I go im gona post my 2nd place state scifair plaque so you can revel in my genius along with my vast wealth.
http://postimage.org/image/sgrexob9gd/f6260fa/
@all u people
I wish you guys luck on your continued attempts to try to overcome your intense jealousy of my success in ever accept of life that matters (fuck grammer). And girls, hopefully you can overcome the depression im sure your facing after realizing you are never going to be able to be with a true alpha male like me.
I’m now going to get faded and fuck college girls, pics of that will be up tomorrow and you guys can continue try come up with convoluted reasons on how im obviously a lying troll (I know it must be hard to believe that a 19 year old can really be this amazing at life, sometimes I have trouble comprehending my greatness to ) I’m sure you guys are gona have trouble sleeping with all the anticipation so you might want to take a benadryl to knock yourself out until I return.
If you have heart trouble don’t take benadryl! I don’t want you to die and miss the feminist shitstorm that’s going to appear tomorrow.
To quote the great lil wayne “Only the truly successful have haters”
@ Jadehawk
party is at my house I get sick if I drink a lot to fast so i spread it out and that would not look good for my rep if im vomiting.
i did show the bitcoins look at page two
i got a volvo not a lambo i had a licoln mkz but totaled it cause i was retarded
Kegs are here got set this up kinght till next time
Fine metal mist
sprays outward in graceful arc
The Beemer carves up the embankment, splits a sapling
It’s beautiful
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! AND LITTLE JOHN FAILS TO STICK THE FLOUNCE!
Just a failure all over, douchecake.
your solution to being a lightweight is to predrink?
you’re one dumb cookie.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I hope you get all the diseases you deserve and go to jail for those premeditated daterapes
Hope you got your CPR-trained friend on standby.
John Jackson:
I’ve never been jealous of moneyed losers with low self-esteem. I’ve never really had any reason to be jealous of anyone, really, as my life is pretty damned perfect. And I have the added benefit of knowing I’ve earned my own way in the world, instead of relying on mommy and daddy.
People don’t dislike you because you have money, or think that second place in a science fair makes you intelligent. People dislike you because you’re unlikable.
But if your own sense of self-worth relies on your delusion that people are jealous of you, go on ahead with your bad self. Hell, most kids your age aren’t very self-aware — I’m not terribly shocked you lack even a smidgin of decency or self-awareness. Maybe you’ll grow out of it, or maybe you’ll keep on being a big fuckin’ douche for the rest of your life.
As it is, it’s not too surprising.
I suspect most women breathe a sigh of relief when you leave the room. But again: if your delusion of adequacy is the only thing standing between you and the suicidal depression that often accompanies the realization that you aren’t really that special, you just keep it up.
johnny reminds me of max when he was trying to “shock” us with the fact that his frat dressed up as nazis