I do not just want the truth; I demand it. This natural universe, so full of wonder, has a natural explanation. I know not what it is, but to believe it is the work of a God would rob it of wonder. In science, we see beauty and truth. In God, we see death and judgement. Besides, how do you believe in something that is not there?
David Lever
Religious nuts see beauty and truth in death and judgement. Go figure.
David Lever:
So, you have faith that there is a natural explanation for the universe, but you don’t know what it is, yet you hold to it because an alternative would rob it of wonder?
Tsk.
Here:
(How is the epistemology of this version different to yours?)
John, to be fair to David, i’d presume that he had worked out that the probability of there being a theistic god, such as the Bible Bogey, approximates to zero.
That does leave room for a deistic god. However, as there’s no evidence for that, the best thing to do is assume that the universe came into being through naturalistic processes.
Yes, if that’s the case, he should’ve made it clear that his assertion, “This natural universe, so full of wonder, has a natural explanation”, is a working hypothesis.
Dick, why do you presume that?
The only stated basis for David’s assertion that there is a natural explanation is that “to believe it is the work of a God would rob it of wonder”; it is that which I addressed, as my reference to epistemology indicates.
Undetectable is an awful lot like nonexistent. Of course, with more sensitive tests, that could change. It might make God rather tiny, however.
John, you jumped on him pretty darned heavily, so i thought someone should cut him some slack.
I think there’s a difference between religious faith, which usually is largely due to indoctrination, (most people stick with the faith they were brought up in), & faith that the universe has a natural explanation, which usually is largely due to rejecting the former faith.
In other words, the faith expressed by David usually comes about as a result of inductive reasoning.
Why I’m not an atheist:
I have power to think for myself and recognize the truth as well. Science didn’t give that to me. The wonder of this world is that it has both intricate science and indescribable beauty, coexisting. The wonder is that God can give me something that both challenges my mind – making me a stronger person through the science, and that the same thing can also bring joy to my spirit, making me a more grateful and stronger person spiritually. I see beauty and truth everywhere, and therein lies the wonder. In religions people often experience judgment and are taught to fear of death, but that is not who God is.
Besides, I believe I’ve seen a rainbow – and called it beautiful – but doubt I could buy it on e-bay — because it doesn’t exist. Just because I explain, or even miniaturize a rainbow, doesn’t mean it is tangible. I can explain God, and recreate parts of his power, but I’ve never touched him either.
My reasoning.
I dunno. People seem to want to believe in something and the fact that it doesn’t exist seems to not deter them. I think it’s more a social thing than a real belief. They do know it’s nonsense but through indoctrination and constant reinforecment and perhaps some sort of strange “need” they give up the ability to think…rationally…Sad really. Maybe it just makes them feel better about everything, the deluded idiots.