Apparently, I’ve been doing it wrong — I need to demand that you bring me beer.
(Episode CCCXXX: People I’ve talked to.)
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Apparently, I’ve been doing it wrong — I need to demand that you bring me beer.
(Episode CCCXXX: People I’ve talked to.)
4:54 am!? Wow, PZ!
(Aren’t you back home?
If so, obviously sleep is for lesser people)
I slept.
Once.
It was a while ago, I can’t quite remember if I enjoyed it.
Louis
Louis,
yes, antidiarrhoeals are a no-no. Rehydrate with 10ml of whatever liquid every 10 minutes, and ride it out…Is your kid vaccinated against rotavirus? Mine was technically a few weeks too old when the vaccine came out a few years ago, but I made my GP give it to him anyway, and he never had a day of diarrhoea in 5 years, just the usual respiratory illnesses.
@349. (Old thread obviously!) Josh, Churlish Ingrate :
What? Why? What’s your issue with using that and for that matter with “firstly” too?
Both are grammicatically correct useful English far as I’m aware. Both seem reasonable compared to possibly clunkier alternatives.
I don’t get your hate for these phrases.
(Plus do I vaguely recall you dislike the word ‘methinks’ too – again, Why?)
@1. John Morales : Pretty sure PZ is still in Europe – a very different timezone – and will be for a few days at least yet.
Travelling takes time even in this age.
I can’t stop giggling at this “I’m a stupid Christian, please mock me” quote:
Sure, dear, whatever you say.
@ Beatrice : Actually its accurately quoting bigotry that’s from the Bible.
Methinks JT Ebehard should not be moderating discussions on feminism/male privilege. Seriously, he’s shown hardly even familiar with Feminism on even a 101 level. With some of the comments he’s made, he’d get banned from a place like Feministe easily. How is it that is in charge of conducting wide-scale discussions on male privilege again? No wonder it’s turned into such a mess, with such an ignorant person at the helm.
I know nothing of physics. Putting JT in charge of a discussion about male privilege is like putting me in charge of a a physics convention. It’s ridiculous.
Rorschach,
Yeah he is so vaccinated.* I’ve been keeping him well hydrated (not to the point of hyponatraemia!) and I’m certain he’ll be fine. This isn’t that serious in all honesty, comedy purposes aside, I just like to see one real poo before I pack him back off to nursery so I can say for certain he’s mended (or at least has a reasonable chance). My little lad’s been pretty good with illness, one or two bouts of the poo beast in his life, chicken pox and a cold. That’s it. And he copes with it pretty well, although today he’s being a bit clingy for no other reason than I think he’s in the mood.
Louis
* I went in and asked for double everything, stuffed twenty quid down the nurse’s cleavage and told him to buy himself something nice.**
** Some of this may be untrue.
Yeah, but the complete unawareness of the author of the quote strikes me as funny.
There is also the rest of a rather long thread in which she gets attacked unfairly over her
bigotryciting the Bible.it’s on Feministe, if someone’s interested
StevoR, huh.
Just read: “Don’t worry, I’ll be back in Morris next Monday, and everything will be reversed then.”
StevoR, “grammatically correct” is hardly the end-all and be-all of good writing, but let’s just say I’m not surprised that you think it is.
Alexajoy:
He’s not in charge of anything. He has a blog, he put up a lousy post, because this is FTB it drew a lot of comments, and things went to hell.
(BTW, if I sound like I’m being curt with you, I don’t intend to be. Needless to say I’m not impressed with JT either.)
Louis, sorry to hear that your kid has the red-eyed devil shits. Hope he feels better soon and you and the missus get some rest.
Ms. Daisy Cutter:
He’s not in charge of his blog?
(Who is?)
Lovely weekend. Spent it doing absolutely nothing! I’m starting the thought processes for my new novel I’ll be working on – I will take the idea I had for a cop drama novel and just expand it to the world of my novels. Already have the characters plotted and have to write the bios:
Karthus Kole – the Captain of the Guard, always works to the book, very hard-working, bit gruff, and has a childhood dream of being a hero from reading books about heroes.
Valkir – the Deputy Captain, a sem (haven’t decided species yet) who is loyal to the core, dependable and strong, but a little bit on the bumbling side.
Mara Kirrowe – another member of the Guards, strong-willed, powerful elven woman with a family legacy of being strong warriors that she must live up to.
Shaura Rellis Dakais – think Q-Branch from James Bond novels. She’s a tallis inventor always trying to make new gadgets and gizmos for the guards, energetic, excitable, a little bit on the eccentric “mad scientist” side of things.
Owin Tiren – the main character, a new recruit to the Guards put under the watch of Captain Kole. He’s got a head-in-the-clouds version of reality and starry-eyed dreams of what it means to be a guard.
Those are the Guard characters. I think the plot will be a version of my one story I had been working on that I abandonded – a kidnapping plot around the Millenial celebration involving one of the council members of Tavsere. It’ll be exciting and adventurous, with some humor injected into it at the same time. And I will not be taking the easy route of “Mara is a female, so she’s here to fall in love.”
@Louis (2):
I haven’t slept for ten days, because that would be too long.
This rajkumar fella on TZT, is he a bit like the village idiot? The 2012 Kevin or something? Sure seems to like a beating…
Out of cigs here, and the bar service is a bit, shall we say, tentative.
@Josh from somewhere in the old thread
Vermont!? I just moved back to Vermont! That is all. Also, I think the thunder will probably kill my power soon.
@StevoR #4 — I, for one, dislike using “I, for one,” because it sounds like I am pontificating instead of speaking. There is no sentence beginning with “I, for one” that could not simply be “I.” I also think it is often used to try to make a personal claim sound broader and more significant that it is (see, again, pontificating.) But that’s just me.
Katherine Lorraine,
I confess to a LOL.
Then a guilty LOL at the original LOL. That was AWFUL. I respect that in a comedian! ;-)
Louis
It’s about 11:30 here in Reykjavik. I’ve been doing the tourist thing; walked into town, strolled the shops, and am now sipping a latte in a coffee shop with wifi.
You will envy me now.
rajkumar again????
— — — — — — — —
Dispatches from the culture wars has a story about how this “drunk driving” thing apparently only counts if you are a non-cop.
— — — — — — — —
Another graphic novel by Ralf König.
Imagine the most embarassing episode of Fawlty Towers…
http://www.amazon.com/Maybe-Maybe-Not-Again-Ralf-K%C3%B6nig/dp/0965632350/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338290047&sr=1-6
König is gay, but his novels can be read by anyone. Here is a couple where the husband is bisexual, and finds it embarrassing to to run into “the old gang”. On top if this, the wife is about to give birth. Lots of stress in the relationship, lots of laughs.
PZ Myers @19,
in my next life, I want to be a biology professor….
Enjoy Iceland, I’ve always wanted to go there (and hoping to do so next year) !
Rorschach,
The old saw about the sadist and the masochist springs to mind when observing Raj:
Did you hear the one about the masochist who said “beat me” and the sadist who said “no”?
I’m pretty convinced that Raj is just not going to go away voluntarily. We could be generous and keep thrashing him, which he clearly wants, he’s a negative attention troll it gives him sharp, little boners, or we could largely ignore him, in which case he’ll vomit forth drivel until he gets bored/a reaction. I predict the latter will happen first.
If banned he’ll morph. If morphing he’ll get BIG banned. If he can/can be bothered he’ll try to circumvent that. He’s a troll. It’s what they do. In his hoggling little mind he’s smart, and deserves to post here. Only one person can change that, and whether PZ does or not is no skin off my nose. I’m content to chip in with occasional mockery if I can be bothered.
The thing with trolls is everything flows according to their timescale. You can mute ’em, ban ’em, ignore ’em, but they keep coming back until they cannot or they are bored. Best just to shrug it off and ignore them as much as you want to. Unless they are Uber Elite Hackers, which lets be blunt, very few are, there’s nothing to worry about.
Louis
@Louis:
It’s actually a quote from Mitch Hedberg. He did that a lot, make you laugh, then feel guilty for laughing.
I can assure you that PZ’s globetrotting lifestyle has absolutely nothing to do with being a biology professor.
What Chas said. Seconded. A lot.
Louis
P.S. Welcome back Chas/Sven. I see the “fuck off” standing order is rescinded and you are back on the crack teat that is Pharyngula.
@12. Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform says:
What’s that supposed to mean?
Also then what is your problem with using ‘I for one’ and “firstly”? Same as what skepticalmath said at #17?
I disagree. They seem perfectly fine to me. Maybe a trifle academic sounding but then that’s a subjective style issue and different people have different styles and tastes and that’s fair enough isn’t it?
I’m still baffled as to why these two phrases are being singled out for so much hate.
So is Friendly Atheist infected by the Slimepit or something?
This thread about Hustler doing a blatantly sexist Photoshop of SE Cupp has all kinds of mansplainin’ going on in the comments.
skepticalmath:
So you never have occasion to pontificate, eh?
(I don’t envy you)
@Louis :
Having had to clean up after a dog (my folks one – been doggy-minding) that’s shat inside a few times this week I can sorta relate & definitely sympatheise. Hope your kid is feeling better soon and both of you get some sleep.
@28. John Morales :
Some of us actually *like* pontificating occassionally maybe? is there anything wrong with that?
Isn’t “pontificating” just expressing our opinions entertainingly and passionately with an extra bit of high falutin’ rhetoic added for extra zing?
@28 When I pontificate, I am usually mocking people who pontificate all over the place. So then, sure, I’ll use pontificatory language. But, when I can, I try to pontificate only in Latin.
Rock and roll can be a painful self-parody….it’s the main reason I quit doing it. Spinal-Tap had the same effect on me.
To all concerned:
Captain McPoosalot seems to have decided that paddling the poo canoe for today is over. Colour is markedly improved (his not the poo’s), frequency of funtimes is waaaaay down, and he has fallen into a blissful sleep on his daddy’s knee, so I’ve put him to bed for a nap. He’s a calmer, happier toddler after this morning’s care than he was yesterday.
Still, seeing a (nearly) 3 year old boy sprinting and shitting at the same time is a memory that is going to last a while I think. If only I’d videoed it to show him later…
…I DIDN’T! But I did think about it.
Anyway, it looks like the drama is over, or at least on the way out and I can go back to the lab tomorrow where things still stink occasionally, but they just give you cancer or kill you. Not make you icky. ;-)
Louis
I pontificated once. But the pope didn’t enjoy it and told me not to come back.
So I went and cardinalicated instead.
Louis
Sven/Chas @24,
my feeble attempt to be humorous obviously was feeble….
Now, where are blueelm/algernon and feynmaniac, it just occurred to me that they have been MIA for a while ?
The pope ruins everything.
And, StevoR, it’s the people who seriously consider every opinion they ever have as seriously deserving a non-mocking totally-righteous pontificated announcement who use that phrase too much.* That’s just me. Josh probably has a better reason.
*Perhaps pontificate was the wrong word. Maybe I should have said something else.
True, but I (for one)* have only ever had the opportunity to do any traveling for work. It’s one of the many things that I like about this job.
*Sorry. I find that “in order” in “in order to” is nearly always superfluous. I also get prickly about misuse of “utilize” and the ubiquitous use of the reflexive first person pronoun, when “I” or “me” would work better.
Also playing banjo with friends seems to be nearly 100% correlated with staying up way too late, and making bad decisions about how much whiskey one really ought to be drinking on a school night. Consider this, anyone interested in taking up banjo.
um, you … build bridges? ::iz probably wildly Rong about misunderstood and misremembered Latin::
skepticalmath,
I wish I could!
(Latinisms add gravitas and auctoritas to any utterance)
\m/ W00t Korpiklaani
Antiochus,
Go figure.
PZ got this via his avocation rather than his vocation.
(Were I he (which I’m most certainly not (too lazy for one, too selfish for another) thoughts of semi-retirement would be lurking at the back of my mind (for certain values of ‘retirement’))
Happy
MondayTuesday!@opposablethumbs #38
You are correct! Pontificate comes from the Latin pons (bridge) + facere (make) = pontifex (bridge builder)
Which is weird, given the connotations (for me, anyway) to pontificating
I mean, not actually weird, since the verb came after the noun and referred to speaking like a Pontiff or Bishop. But, still.
Pharyngula is still the finest procrastination engine ever devised.
@Chas:
I once thought about building a procrastination engine, but I never started designing it *shrug* I’ll get to it someday.
@Chas
eeeh, it lacks the opiate qualities of TV Tropes
John Morales, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means” is from the movie The Princess Bride. Spoken by character Inigo Montoya, who is also famed for “Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.”
If you have not seen this film, then you should. It is the source of many more geek quotes, as well as being really quite amusing and featuring some rather good buckling of swashes. Tongue in cheek fantasy. (I never could stand the damn Princess, though.)
Katherine, it doesn’t need saying, but your latest drollness is not unappreciated.
Alethea, assume I am quite familiar with The Princess Bride, and re-read my comment in that context.
@John Morales:
Thank you! It’s Tuesday after my second long weekend in a row, I’m not nearly as annoyed as I usually am on this day. And I’m also six days away from speaking with my transgender advocate for the first time – which is probably why I’m euphoric, cause if I weren’t I would be terrified.
Hi there
So, we’ve been to the lawyer, the car expert has seen the car and Mr’s at the GP’s. So far things look relatively good, but nobody is ever going to make up for the 20 hrs of work each one of us will have put into this before we’re back to where we were before.
Louis
I’m glad boy is better. One of Ms. Pukeys’ episodes landed us in hospital (she has about zero reserves…)
Luckily, the bag was outside when the infestation occurred. I can handle the maggots, but when they land on my foot, and look like white rice . . . .
Girl’s boyfriend gave her plush gonorhea. Very cute.
And disturbing.
I’ve only lived in a house with AC once. And I used it all the time — even when it was nice outside. Wife and I figure we only really need it five or so nights a year, so why bother?
Can you imagine what Danny Kaye could have done with today’s movie standards? But would he still have done it with as much style?
Is there a way I can formally object to objectivism? Especially the form used by those who want to use it as a guilt-free excuse to keep oppressing the oppressed?
I thought those were birds that live off the coast of Maine. Damn.
I was not there. I was in bed. Sweating. Under the warm breeze of two fans.
And I, for one, will work to be firstly reticent about using that risible phrase.
Quite possibly the most disgusting thing ever to happen to Wife and I as parents was the time that Boy, at the age of about 18 months, had a really bad case of diarhea — stuff that stunk like a Bachmann/Palin press conference. Bad. And he filled his entire bucket-style car seat. Filled it. Fucking rotavirus!
Been there, done that, threw away the t-shirt.
See, that would have been perfect for the wedding rehearsal dinner.
At Girl’s dinner, the story of the lightning bug will be told. With full orchestration and four part harmony.
Good idea. That way you can never be investigated. A butler, sure. A cardinal, never.
I took up banjo once. Once. Then I put it where it belonged.
Sunday, you calendarist oppressor!
Good morning, all.
OK, John, you’ve lost me. You asked “When the quotation was fresh, what was its source?” – I see no great obscurity or clever reference in that. So what did I miss?
You’re a Pharynguloid, Kitty.
(Just do your thing)
Pteryxx! You’re in Dallas? I’m in Denton. I rather like it, although we still can’t seem to get anyone who isn’t a Republican fuckhead elected to jack shit out here. Unfortunately, I’m usually too busy college-student-ing (GI Bill) and parenting to be very involved in fixing things outside of screaming a lot and occasionally getting together with student orgs to do clinic defense or march for good shit or protest the asshats who bring fake dead fetus pictures to campus and put them right the fuck out wherever they want because why not? So, yeah.
I think I’m traumatized by all the penis pictures on twitter.
(If that’s not a setup for a misunderstanding, I don’t know what is…)*
*(he’s posting pictures from here)
Alethea @54, it’s pretty simple: The quotation is not its source.
Stories? When child the younger was a few months old, I still had him in at the lab occasionally when the daycare was closed for school holidays. One of these days we had a visiting professor, a good friend of my advisor, in touring the lab. The child had gone almost three days without any bowel movement, which was getting worrying.
I don’t think I need to explain exactly what happened at the very moment that the visiting professor was being introduced to me and my incongrously-present-in-the-lab-offspring.
Jenniferforester, I am also in the north part of the metromess, feel free to contact me at brideoffigg at gmail dot com.
o,0
I once lectured for three hours with baby shit on the knee of my pants.
Morales: JT is not in charge of privilege discussions on FTB generally.
Birger:
Uh, well, duh? What does his orientation have to do with that?
StevoR:
That you’re none too bright. Thank you for proving the point.
As for my “problem” with the phrases, they’re pompous and redundant.
Giliell, that sucks, about the missed hours of work, but I’m glad things weren’t a lot worse.
The main problem with the phrases in question is that, while they may sound academic, my professors would absolutely kill the shit out of me for including them in any of my work because they are so cliche. I pass no judgment on people for using them, but they are most assuredly not for-realz academic.
Thank you. Pompous was more the word I was looking for.
@jenniferforester — yes, the red ink would assuredly appear for those phrases from most professors. Also, at least in my field (mathematics) especially, conciseness and simplicity is more of an objective standard than just a subjective stylistic choice.
Bah.
I did not come online this weekend, as I was too busy sitting in front of my air conditioner.
It is not even 10 am yet, and it is already 85 F!
*whines*
So, I am threadrupt. But I’ve skimmed enough to note that there is a thing going on over at JT’s. SIGH.
A person cannot unilaterally claim to be an ally. Being allied requires (1) work and (2) the consent of those you are allied with. Oh, and if you act like a douchenozzle *cough cough* your ally card can be revoked.
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
A plausible claim, and not one I would care to dispute.
skepticalmath:
Well, I find myself naive in this matter.
I’d have imagined that mathematical correctness, rigor and cogency in its presentation would be the determinants of merit, not whether linguistic cliches were employed.
(Surely you don’t imagine cliches need be verbose or complicated)
Og and Carlie,
Nice stories! My wife went back to the consultant to have her wound inspected (post caesarian) and the young lad, only a few weeks old, performed a nappy filler of such epic impressiveness it shot up his back, out the neck and legs of his onesie and over his mother. (It was a scorching hot summer’s day by the way)
She managed to clean him and herself up. Or so she thought. As she left the consultation, the doctor pointed out “you have a little something on the hem of your skirt”. It was indeed a large patch of drying poo.
The beloved Mrs was mortified. She’d planned for all eventualities, or so she thought. Nappies, wipes, change of clothes for the Boy, bags, milk, toys, books you name it. She didn’t plan on a change of clothes for herself.
Ahhhhh I had to try very, VERY hard not to laugh when she told me that.
I was permitted to laugh a week later when she had gotten over the chagrin.
Louis
I think “I, for one” can convey the realization that contention exists regarding whatever follows. This can be much more effective in a conversation than in writing, especially if emphasis is placed on “for one”.
Although often it seems to be used to convey sophistication.
Ms. Daisy
Sorry for wording that badly: It’s not like we’re missing hours at work. OK, Mr.’s missing the whole week, but that’s not our problem.
What I meant was that it will cost each of us 20 hours of our time to get things in order again. Everybody else who has to work on the case is getting paid for that. For us it’s just our bad Mr. was rearended.
+++
Ralf König
I remember reading his novels at age 14 and blushing heavily. It was about when I discovered with a mixture of curiosity and embarrasment that gay people don’t only exist in potential or as a scientific question but that they were all around me!!!
Antiochus Epiphanes,
3 hours!? Impressive! MOST impressive.
Louis
People who habitually use ‘I, for one’ are the same folks who never use the word ‘me’, instead always using ‘myself’, ‘yours truly’, ‘moi‘, and the like. Narcissists, that is.
Hi, Esleteth!
Somebody ought to try to get that through Jason Thibeault’s thick skull (see thread).
Giliell: Ah, OK, I understand now.
That is not necessarily true, Chas. There may be some overlap in the two groups, but I, for one,* don’t see the overlap as total.
_____
*see what I did there?
All the poo stories provide me yet more reason to be glad I’ve never had kids. Not that anyone with any common sense should want me to have kids in the first place.
Poo stories are terrific… when they’ve happened to somebody else.
There’s a widely circulated one about a guy holding his infant son while at a cookout. He thought he had gotten mustard on his fingers, and he licked it off.
It wasn’t mustard.
@Chas:
I, for one, would never use the term “I, for one.” Wait. Crap.
Hi Daisy!
*waves*
I’m disgusted by the “I’m an ally and you can’t tell me otherwise! Now, go be a good little gay!” attitude that is cropping up all over the place.
But then, privilege. It is a nasty little thing.
It’s the redundancy, not the cliche, that bothers me. Obviously, mathematicians use cliches and redundant phrasing (and I should hardly be considered the expert, anyway, so this is all just in my own experience.) In fact, mathematicians use set phrasing far more than would be appropriate elsewhere (the joke goes that as long as you know the words for “such that”, “there exists”, and “for all” in a language you can read mathematics in it.) So, yes, if “I, for one,” means something distinct from “I,” then each should be used when appropriate. But I don’t really think it does, and then it’s just redundant.
In non-creepazoid news, I got new shoes.
These, to be specific. They are teh cuuute. And comfys.
And I paid $5 for them. Sales! ^_^
*looks at poo stories*
*looks at Frosted Mini Wheats*
*looks back at poo stories*
*sighs*
*returns Mini Wheats to lunch bag*
*gives Audley a chocolate bar, green pudding, and a plate of tempura asparagus*
Just ’cause.
*shrug*
@Esteleth:
Cute! “Girls” though? You must have little feet.
I have big feet :\ I’m a size 10. (and as I have discovered, a size 10 in women’s fits better than a size 8.5 in men’s)
Katherine,
I wear a 4.5 in girls, which is a 6.5 in women’s.
That is, I have little feet for a grown woman, which means that not all of the styles are made in my size.
But 4.5 girls has lots of options. Also, the same shoe is 15-20% cheaper.
*sigh*
I’m taking note of my reaction to all the kiddie poo stories, so that I’ll know better what those always-mysterious other people feel like when I get all enthusiastic about parasites. ♥
—
jenniferforester: I’m absolutely around northish Dallas, half the time anyway (the half with decent internet). I take classes here when I can afford it. I don’t always have the spoons to go participate in things, but I do when I can – most recently I helped out at a couple of Trayvon Martin protests and the North Texas Secular Student Convention. (I met JT there. Sorry to find out afterwards he’s got such a bad case of Imadouchebag.)
Anyway, I’m up for anti-anti-woman protests so we may cross paths someday, who knows. My gmail is just my nym, but I keep forgetting to check it so mostly I make contact through here. One more step towards north Texas critical Hordemass, yay!
—
Katherine: ooo, exciting times. (Why is it that hopeful things are scary…)
and re the Friendly Atheist crowd… unfortunately those aren’t Sl*mepit denizens, apparently they’re resident. I posted some 101-level arguments and rape stats over there, and most of the raging totally-not-misogynists comment thoughtfully* on other threads. *headshake*
*I tried to say “rationally” but the JTrainwreck left a bad taste on that word.
@Esteleth:
… I have big feet :\
(sorry, whining about my feet. I hate them so much – not only are they big, but they’re lumpy and my toes are weird and I have dry skin on them that peels and is gross and WTF is going on with my pinkie toes and seriously look at those huge gaps between my toes and… (*sigh* whining more))
I wore a 6.5 shoe, until I had kids. Now it’s a 7.5W or an 8, depending on the style.
Awe, Kat. I have big feet, too (size 10).
I haven’t had a problem finding cute shoes ‘cos 10 is almost always included in the size run for any particular style. But, then again, I’m rarely wear anything that isn’t either sneakers or ballet flats.
Katherine,
You want me to gripe about my feet?
I wear a 6.5, double wide (or a 4.5 single wide in girls – other reason why I shop in the kids section). I have supinated ankles (my feet roll outward), high arches, and misshapen toes. Oh, and prominent veins.
Of my ten toes, I have had a series of at least twelve fractures. Most on the outermost 3 toes on each foot. Hence the misshapen.
A story: last year, I walked into a chair in the dark. Broke my little toe on my left foot. My roommate, awakened by the sound of me cursing, rushed about, asking if I wanted to go to the hospital, offering me prescription-strength painkillers, etc.
She went all O_O when I said, “No thanks. There’s a spool of athletic tape in the bathroom drawer. Can you fetch it please?” and then set the toe in front of her. I taped it up and went back to bed.
This came up later when I did have to go to the hospital due to a burst ovarian cyst. The ENT asked her if I complained of pain at all. She said in a rather odd voice, “…she set a broken bone in the kitchen, taped it up, and went back to bed.” The ENT nodded, taking my complaint of pain so bad I couldn’t walk into context.
:D
In other news, I’m a freak of nature, apparently?
Ms. Daisy Cutter:
“König is gay, but his novels can be read by anyone.”
“Uh, well, duh? What does his orientation have to do with that?”
Sorry. The correct phrase should have been
“König is gay AND WRITES ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES IN THE GAY SUBCULTURE, but his novels can be read by anyone WITH A SENSE OF HUMOUR.”
(I have to use capital letters since I cannot work out how to do the, er, squiggly letter thing on the computer)
— — — — — — — —
Poo spreading. Try transporting a nervous calf to a pasture where he/she can be outdoors instead of shut inside a barn. They are cute but they go Splat!Splat!Splat! at the first opportunity.
I’m a size 6 in shoes. (And rings and clothes. WTF.) But I’m obsesive about them because I had plantar warts as a kid that refused all treatment until one day they vanished.
Esteleth: Twice, I’ve broken toes. The first took two weeks to realize I broke it. Me to now-ex girlfriend: “Hey, I smashed my toe really hard on a corner two weeks ago, and it’s all wiggly still.” Her: *facepalm* “Because you broke it, fool.” The second time, I didn’t realize because I was slightly drunk and it wasn’t a terrible break. It occurred when I was preparing to go out dancing. It wasn’t bad until I danced on it for hours in 5 inch heels.
I am so smart.
Happiestsadist:
*crooked toe bump*
I generally only notice that my toes are broken when the foot at the base of the toe in question starts turning colors (I’m very pale and bruise easily).
Re “‘I, for one’ ”
As a non-English speaker, I have to absorb all kinds of phrases through osmosis since school only covered the practical minimum of the language.
I often have no idea how appropriate a particular phrase is. Has it become obsolete since the author wrote the novel? Has it changed meaning through language drift? Swedish kids have a similar problem when absorbing the latest English swear words from film. The have no sense of the nuances. When they meet, it is “Hey, motherfucker” “hello, asshole” ;-)
Esteleth, those sandals are cute… but
now I have an earworm.
Same here, Esteleth! (To the pale and bruisy too.) When I looked at my foot the morning after the dancing incident, my thoughts went “Oh good. Another brilliant idea on my part, and another day in closed-toe shoes.”
Hello awesome people!
I have a questions/need advice:
I’m helping organize a big conference for the first time (I recently became a board member of the Humanists of Florida Association and now I’m chair of the conference committee)! Has anyone here helped organize a conference before? We’ve already got a great speakers list, a venue, a schedule, and an anti-harassment policy, but I feel like I might be overlooking something.
The reply was to discuss probably the best research to date on the question, noting the reasons people can’t appreciate the issue fully if they rely only on personal or clinical experience. The research showed not only that the outcomes for people not on drugs long-term were fairly good overall, but that they were significantly better than those for people taking the drugs, whose outcomes were very bad overall.
Sigh.
It was actually a page that mentions a few sources of information on that specific program (Open Dialogue). It’s one that Whitaker discusses fairly extensively in his book. (He also linked recently to several studies about it on his site.)
I’m a bit surprised that you’re not interested enough in the subject to investigate this on your own, and seem more interested in a hostile reading of my comments than in actually learning about treatments.
As I noted in my first response, it was a separate issue from the question about the drugs. It’s unnecessary to discuss the success of any alternatives if the drugs haven’t been shown to have good outcomes in general or compared to simply not being on the drugs. I mentioned it because, naive as I am, I thought you might actually be interested in learning that there are other treatments that appear to have good outcomes and are more successful than no treatment.
No one should stop taking these drugs from one day to the next.
I wasn’t suggesting that your cousin, about whom I know only what you’ve posted here, should go with any specific treatment, nor that any regimen is suitable to every individual or culture. And of course no one can answer that question in advance with complete certainty about a specific individual like your cousin, but people can and should base their thinking about different treatments’ effectiveness and harms on research and knowledge about the nature of the problem.
Well, I’m pretty sure anything I say at this point is going to confirm those baseless suspicions for you, because you’re pretty fixed on that assumption. I’ll point out that I was (IIRC) the only person to respond to your questions with a substantive answer supported with evidence, and I did so even though I could well predict the hostile response.
I don’t think you or anyone here would argue that all research that isn’t focused specifically on Giliell’s cousin is uncaring and has no place in discussions of what treatments are best. People usually appreciate those who perform and who report this sort of research to try to get at the truth. I suspect that in an alternate world in which the research had supported your preconceptions, someone replying to your question by citing discussions of it would be appreciated by you. It’s the content of what I’m reporting and arguing that’s making you and some others so hostile. I understand it in part, but that doesn’t make it any less of a problem.
***
It sounds to me like you’re confused.
This is silly. Anyway, my recommendation, as I said earlier in that thread, is to start – with a critical but fair and open mind – with The Emperor’s New Drugs by Irving Kirsch and Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. Then the criticisms of them. Then their responses to the criticisms. Then Marcia Angell’s articles in the New York Review of Books, the criticisms of those, and her responses… It’s not that it’s not useful to read or criticize the individual studies they cite, but it’s better if they’re understood in the larger context and as just individual pieces of the puzzle.
***
You’re right. It oughtn’t be the case. Especially since you realize consciously that it is the case and oughtn’t be. If you’re really suggesting that you’ll have a hard time reading or reading charitably because I suggested based on the history of responses in evidence on that thread that some people wouldn’t, it sounds a lot like you’re looking for reasons not to engage with it or to read unfairly, even though you know that’s stupid/wrong. And for some reason want to convey to others that you’re not inclined to read it or read it fairly, and that it’s my fault if you or they don’t.
I don’t like”utilize”or”methodology”.
Finding them together in the same sentence can cause throwing things .
Hmpth.
On the whole psychiatry shebang:
Much of how psychiatry is organized is seriously messed up. Many psychiatrists would rather give someone a scrip rather than listen to their problems and maybe help them address them.
The profit motivation and the corporativism of the companies is also problematic.
All that said?
For some people, psychiatric medications are useful. They have a place. That place is smaller than what it is today, but they have a place.
StarStuff: congratz! May I ask where in Florida, just in case?
– Volunteers. Specifically, registration/ticketing, money handling if that’s something your event is doing, audiovisual/technical (especially cameras to record speeches if possible), and security/gofers depending on how big and maze-like your venue is.
– Setup/teardown. If the venue doesn’t handle this, that’s MORE volunteers, and chairs/tables and such.
– Progress schedule – at what point do you stop taking registration? Who’s handling any questions that come up? What if you get flooded with emails?
– Travel arrangements – do you need support for speakers to fly in/fly out or whatever?
– Have someone bring a first-aid kit and know how to use it, and that everyone knows where it is and whose it is.
A lot depends on venue and expected attendance, so that’s just my knee-jerk response when someone says “Help, convention!”
Utilize makes me want to throw things, too. “Use”. It has fewer letters, fewer syllables, and is more correct.
@StarStuff #98
I’ve never been the person-in-charge at a conference, but experiences as a staff-person and/or presenter tell me that one of the most important logistical issues is to have a plan for how conference staff will be able to communicate with you, or other people who can make decisions. About halfway through every conference it seems like the organizational team goes incommunicado, and no one knows how to solve problems/crises/whatever.
StarStuff:
I was on the organizing committee for a conference for 3 years. The last year, I was chairperson-in-all-but-name.
What do you want to know?
Trainwreck note: Comments were just closed on the “Want to keep commenting” article, without a statement to that effect.
Starstuff
Catering!
It really sounds trivial, but nothing can ruin a good day more than a lack of coffee and snacks.
SC
No, you only said that the regimen he is on at the moment is doing him harm without knowing fuck about him. That’s a serious load of playing a doctor on the internet.
Also, Dianne has criticised the problems with that study more in depth than I could.
*correction: WITH a statement to that effect, blarg my browser refresh.
@ Pteryxx
The conference will be held in Lakeland (it’s a long story).
Thanks for the advice! The hotel will be taking care of setup, etc. I’ve already got “first aid kit” on my list of things to bring. We still need to look into volunteers (especially for recording, etc). I guess we can contact our affiliate groups in the area and see if some of their members will be willing to donate some of their time.
The use of “momentarily” to mean in a moment rather than for a moment makes me want to throw things. As does any setence that contains the phrase “paradigm shift”
Burglarize is another that annoys me.
Firmly ensconced in douchitude, JT writes:
– “Quantitate” instead of “quantify” used to irk me for no reason in particular.
– “Orientate” in lieu of “orient” is becoming commonplace–and I really don’t like that.
– I notice that graduate students especially develop a tendency to use transitional words/phrases at the beginning of every sentence, e.g. “Thus,…”, “Additionally,…” etc. Over the course of a thesis*, this can stretch one’s vocabulary to the breaking point, resulting in the use of such transitionary elements as “Therewithal,…” and “To wit,…”, which are completely inappropriate and serve only to annoy me.
*I’m sort of in the middle of proofing one right now, is why I’m thinking of it.
Apropos of nothing, @John Morales: While I often find the content of your posts enlightening/amusing, etc., I’m always impressed by your command of the language. I admire your precision.
I see Jason Thibeault is doubling down on his “bitches is just crazy and have grudges and don’t get my sophistimacated rape humour” thing in the LOLcat thread.
I’d say something, but, you know, perma-moderated for not being nice enough to the guy who claimed my statement of being triggered was just my having something against him and that I wasn’t nice enough while coming down off a severe PTSD flashback.
The hotel is providing those things (now we just have to decide how many meals we’re going to cover).
@ skepticalmath
We’re probably going to communicate via phone (since pretty much everyone has a cell phone these days). Our executive director, another board member, and I will probably be in charge of running everything.
@ Esteleth
What are things that you think conference organizers overlook sometimes? We’ve got the basics done, but it’s my first time and the other people who are organizing aren’t very experienced with this kind of thing either. I don’t want to overlook something big.
Verbing enweirdens the language.
Are we still on psychiatry? Good, that gives me a chance to apologize to SC for misunderstanding his comment about the methodology of the paper he was referencing.
My apologies for misreading you, SC.
I will point out that you also appear to have misunderstood my point: I didn’t mean to say that anyone claimed that the paper referenced was a RCT, but to point out the differences between RCT and epidemiologic data. Epidemiologic data is “messier” and has more variables. It’s harder to make definitive statements about causation through epi data.
For example, there is a long standing epidemiologic finding that men who are diagnosed with early prostate cancer have a better 5-year survival than the general population. Would you conclude from this that prostate cancer is good for you? Probably not. I’m inclined to hypothesize that having medical care good enough to find the prostate cancer early is good for you (it implies that your blood pressure is also under control, your cholesterol and blood sugar monitored, your colon screened, etc.)
Similarly, the finding that people who go off meds are healthier at 5 or 10 years out does not prove that long term psychiatric meds are bad for every patient or even most patients. The patients who stopped meds were more likely to have poor pre-morbid functioning, had better social support, etc. They would be expected to do better. If they were doing only as well at 2 years, that may suggest that they stopped meds prematurely. (Though the actual article is rather disappointingly short on details such as exactly they considered “poor pre-morbid functioning”.)
Have you read the actual Harrow paper? It’s interesting, but not practice changing. A basis for further research, certainly, but not something I’d use to make statements as sweeping as you seem to be.
People, I’ve heard that JT has made some sweeping bans of a number of regulars here. That’s his prerogative. I also hear that some of you have been trying to comment on his blog with new pseudonyms. DON’T DO THAT. I hate it when people try to do that here.
Move on. When the blog owner boots you, don’t try to sneak back in — you’re an unwanted guest.
StarStuff: Oh yeah, and I suggest that if folks with experience, like Esteleth or skepticalmath, are willing to be contacts if you hit a problem that nobody in your committee knows how to handle, TAP that resource. I’d volunteer but I’m a) a grunt and b) tough to contact at will, except here where everyone in the world can read it.
Since you’ve got a hotel, check with them on security, first aid, possibly A/V as in microphones and projection, and setup/teardown – that just means “How and at what what point do we ask you, The Hotel, for help?”
Oh oh oh! The one that gets me is “addicting”. Oh how I hates it, I hates it, I hates it!
How hard is it to use “addictive”, you ignorant ass?
(Whenever someone links to a post on Addicting Info, I go all AUDLEY SMASH. It doesn’t help that their articles are as sloppily written as their goddamn name, either.)
From 112
I went through this phase my senior undergrad year. It was truly terrible.
Then again, I somewhat understand it as an overreaction to criticism in lower-division courses: when a TA, I find that the only thing I write on every single paper more than once is “transition?”
And in any case burgle is already a verb. Not only is burglarize ugly, it is also surplus to requirements.
For the record I certainly didn’t.
to start – with a critical but fair and open mind – with The Emperor’s New Drugs by Irving Kirsch
Because PhDs who write for the Huffington Post are always the most reliable sources for information about drugs.
A point you might not realize with respect to drugs and money: Psychologists can’t prescribe drugs. Effective anti-depressant medications threaten their livelihoods. This is not to say that any criticism of a psychiatric drug by a psychiatrist is wrong, of course, but there is a built in bias, just as much as in an article or book about Prozac written by a researcher from Eli Lilly.
Thankfully I cannot recall coming across that one, but if I ever do I’m sure I will find it very annoying.
Something else that annoys me “at this point in time”. Why not just say “at this time” or “at this point” ?
Wait, what? People here hate that shit. I don’t see that happening. Of course, I’m biased. Can we get any information on this? Like, was someone accusing us of doing that or did someone admit to doing that?
Totally threadrupt, but I have a good excuse. I see we have new peeps. Hi new peeps!
… On that “good excuse” issue. A few statements:
1) The fact that the La Brea tar pits are just a couple miles from downtown Los Angeles is, apparently, not widely known.
2) The Queen Mary has huge steam engines.
3) The Pacific Coast Highway is long. We didn’t go *quite* the entire way, but from Ventura to the Avenue of the Giants is about 800 miles.
4) Friend: “We have seals and such in the UK, but not exactly like this, where you’re driving along a major highway, pull into a parking lot, and just take a few snaps.” Me: “You mean, your wildlife doesn’t come with convenient parking?”
5) The first time I decide to drive across the Golden Gate Bridge in probably 5 years, it ends up being the exact date of its 75th anniversary. My timing is perfect.
6) Far too many picturesque towns nestled in isolated coves. You can’t throw a brick without hitting a picturesque little town nestled in an isolated cove.
7) Friend: “The scale on the maps is always misleading. You look at California, and, other than San Francisco, it looks pretty smooth with a slight notch here and there.” Me: “… And then you realize that slight notch is ten miles long.” (referencing Point Reyes)
8) Driving through a still-living tree is something everyone has to do, at least once in their lives.
9) Me: “So, when was the last time you drove 1000 miles to catch a train?” Friend: “I’ve never driven 1000 miles, full stop.”
10) Whoever at CalTrans decided to close lanes on the Grapevine over Memorial Day weekend needs to be drawn and quartered.
All in all, a fun trip. Would have liked to have more time and maybe meet up with some of the Horde along the way, but we were kind of pressed at is was (about 400 miles a day driving, which works out to 8-10 hours).
dianne:
Hmm… Shouldn’t it be “any criticism of a psychiatric drug by a psychologist? (If I’ve followed correctly.)
(re trainwreck)
…Um, JT only banned TWO commenters, publicly, by name. Josh and Ms Daisy Cutter. That’s a fairly specific allegation. If JT’s confusing Pharyngula regulars with the Sl*mepit denizens in that thread, that’s shifting him rapidly downwards in my estimation.
yes, yes, “addicting”…a FB favorite.
Also, “capability” instead of “ability”. And “exacerbate” to mean “intensify”. And all kinds of hyperbole, the worst being the use of “vast” to describe a body of literature or a set of experiences.
“Price point.” ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH!
“Do you have a model at a lower price point?” WHY?
Just say “price.”
Matt Penfold: What about the phrase “in three days time“? This one I tend to hear only from UK and SAf natives, but the word “time” is completely superflous.
Starstuff:
Let me answer that by listing the titles and duties of the various members of the organizing committee when I served on it:
-Chair. The head honcho.
-Registration Queen. In charge of organizing pre-registration (including collecting money), designing and making badges, getting non pre-registered people registered in a timely fashion, etc.
-Guest Liaison. In charge of talking care of guests of honor (i.e. outside speakers). Making sure they have their schedules, seeing to it that they get ferried to where they need to go, running interference if necessary.
-Panels Sub-committee. A subcommittee responsible for organizing the panels. What topic, who’s speaking, what room, what time. Making sure that there are projectors/remotes/microphones in the appropriate rooms.
-Events Sub-committee. A subcommittee responsible for organizing the non-panel events. See above, responsibilities similar to panels subcommittee.
-Treasurer. Self-explanatory.
-Webmistress. Self-explanatory.
-Gopher Queen. In charge of organizing, delegating the duties of, and overseeing the compensation of volunteers.
-Vendor Liaison. In charge of seeing to it that the vendors are recruited, have appropriate space for their wares, that competing vendors are not next to each other (this is important), and so on.
-Security Liaison. In charge of liaising with college security (this was on a college campus).
-Secretary. In charge of keeping the records.
-Publications. In charge of laying out, making and printing the con book.
-Advertising. Self-explanatory.
This conference did not provide food, so we didn’t have a point person for that.
All of these things need to be addressed.
Ogvorbis,
Yes, but I wouldn’t try to argue “against Objectivism” per se, because that framing would tend to keep them within their own worldview, thinking in Randroid patterns. So even if you win the argument, they won’t notice that you did.
In the example being discussed earlier, I guess I might try explaining something like Rawls’ veil of ignorance, as a reference point for fairness. But there’s other methods.
Always the best method is to try to shift discussion over to your own ethics, or another system of ethics that you feel confident discussing. And tell a personal story about someone you know who is affected — in this case, harmed by the workings of privilege — preferably someone who’s not a member of your family, but if your choice is between an evocative story about a family member and a flat story about a friend, probably best to go with the more emotionally rich story. (Of course, if time permits, you could tell both.)
Be ready to defend the legitimacy of emotive talk. Because humans are animals, and as such, quality of life is dependent upon experiencing “good” and “bad” in emotional terms, it’s impossible to have a complete discussion of morality and ethics without considering emotional outcomes for people. Anyone trying to keep emotion out of the discussion is not being realistic.
I haven’t been banned, or threatened with it, but I did comment variously under either the login required here, or just by hand-entering my name (same username) and email when I wasn’t already logged in. I hope that didn’t trigger any sockpuppet alarms.
Ugh, and talking about bad grammar, that’s me there. Not variously, because I was only using two options. My writing no is good.
Josh:
For fuck’s sake… you mean that there are people who use retail jargon out in the real world?
AUDLEY SMASH!!
Ogvorbis,
Also, if you read that and thought “I don’t know if I really have a ‘system’ of ethics, exactly,” that is perfectly fine. I tend to lapse into that kind of talk, but it truly is not necessary.
The important thing is to keep the discussion on your terms — modeling your terms is the only way the Randroid can get any practice thinking like a decent person, and yeah, ethical thinking takes practice. If you’re not aware of having a systemic approach then you’ll recognize your terms by the way they feel familiar and right to you.
I am a word distorter, if I can verb a noun or vice versa I have likely done so. I will also not apologize, it has not been my experience that I am less understood while playing verbal games than I am while following the rules, the whole thing seem to me much like complaining about accent.
I would have preferred “I’m closing the thread so I can take a good look at what’s here already and think about it” rather than “I’m closing the thread because you’re all being mean and this is why we can’t have nice things”, but whatever. I don’t think there’s anything more to do now but wait and see how he sorts it all out.
Actually, it seems to me, that, basically, a few of these linguistic complaints people are making are literally vastly out of all proportion with reality and I for one, would really be exceedingly grateful if people could get a grip and appreciate that to merrily compose a piece of writing, one can utilise a wide variety, nay even a plethora, of techniques to develop their bon mots, going forward.*
Furthermore, up to this point, and at all points from this point in time, I think it wise to consider the implications of accessing the downstream output of other people’s brainstorms by foccusing on simply the negative aspects of their grammatical and verbal preferences. After all is said and done, which one of us has never committed a sin of prolixity or verbosity or circumlocution or indeed even epic levels of sesquipedilianism?
Far be it from me to take “the moral high ground”** here, but surely one should consider the beam in one’s own eye before one considers the mote in another’s? When all is said and done it is no use turning to me when the milk has been spilt and after the horse has bolted and crying over the fact that someone has poorly anecdotalised or aphorismed.
With enormous gratitude
Louis
* Unnecessary “business speak” does piss me off mightily. I’m a scientist, if you want to sound smart, the key is to BE FUCKING SMART, ARSEHOLE. Jargonising the quotidian is superfluous! ;-) (deliberate)
** You can even hear the air quotes can’t you?
Speaking of linguistic pet peeves, one that sets my teeth on edge is “facilitate” instead of “ease”. Or, with a nod to Antiochus, “exacerbate” instead of “aggravate”. Another, heard most often from those who were in one of Werner Erhard’s 1st Church of the Uptight Yuppie thingies in the early ’90s, is “I’m a complaint”, when wanting to voice a greivance. That one always caused me to do a mental hiccup; my brain would have a whatthefuckdidhejustsay moment before I could start to think about the actual gripe the person had. I wanted to grab the person by the lapels and shout ” No, you’re a dipshit and you HAVE a complaint”. I could go on about the sloppy tech writing I’ve encountered in equipment manuals but I don’t want to rupture another aneurysm.
I never have any problem understand what you mean.
To the long list of Republican trickery, we can add a Nevada politician who presents one policy description to mostly white, English-speaking voters, and quite different views when pandering to Spanish-speaking voters on the Spanish language version of his website.
Source: http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/29/11938052-dean-heller-gets-lost-in-translation
No doubt, Heller thinks both his websites are truthful and not misleading in any way.
More here: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/may/28/heller-reaches-out-hisapnics-foes-say-real-message/
Matt,
That is because we can all done write good here. And like can do reading.
Louis
Audley:
I’d bet that the majority of people using the phrase don’t really understand it and are trying to sound more professional than they actually are.
Louis : We all talk English good too.
Yes, and that applies to “professionals,” too. It’s a ridiculous game of making very ordinary and old things sound groundbreaking and new.
Another of my least favorites: “I’m learning a new skill-set.” Jesus Christ. You’re just learning a skill(s). No one has a “skill-set,” they have skills.
Yes, as far as JT’s goes, to my knowledge, the only ones banned were Ms. Daisy and Josh, and neither of them go for that kind of thing. The sl*mepit denizens setting up shop there were, well, denizens of the Pit and seemed pretty comfy and welcome there.
I also hate when “vacation” is used as a verb.
Dhorvath: nouning verbs is much less reprehensible* because for some reason the meaning of those nouns is always clearer…for example, you may go for a swim, have yourself a wank, etc, and I wouldn’t be at all confused about it.
*Yes,…I’m being hyperbolic. I spend lots of time evaluating writing as part of my job. I’m really not all that emotional about variation in speech and writing, especially when it isn’t in front of me demanding reproach. I think language is fun to think and talk about, largely because I have to think and talk** about it all the time…might as well enjoy it. It is not my intention to backhandedly insult*** anyone who uses language “wrong”.
**My wife also grades a lot.
***Apparently I have no problem with split infinitives or ergodic footers. Sorry about that.
Pteryxx:
Hey, he compared me to an MRA, so why not?
Also, FWIW, I’m certainly not sockpuppeting over there, either.
As for redundant rhetorical flourishes, they make bad writers think they sound S-M-R-T, and they impress other bad writers. That’s all. But because bad writers are so common and often so powerful at our places of business, their writing goes unchallenged, and it seeps into everyday conversation.
In academia, I guess it depends. I once helped someone in the humanities copy edit her doctoral thesis when she was studying at A Big And Well-Known Ivy League University. Her academic advisor said the results were “workmanlike,” which he did not mean as a compliment. So she put all the extra verbiage back in, and he was delighted.
I always interpreted “skill-set” as “set of closely related skills”, which made sense to me as an intermediate between, say, “job experience” and “ability to perform a specific task well”. Something like my animal-handling skills (skill-set?) include(s) restraint, euthanasia, and other procedures which each require specific training.
Just saw Boss.
Boss is wearing ratty jean shorts, a polo shirt, socks, and sandals.
*twitch*
Here’s my pet peeve about language:
When it comes to grammar, most of the “zomg this grammar mistake pisses me off” statements refer to grammatical rules that have nothing to do with English syntax or usage, but a period of history where self-proclaimed “grammarians” attempted to make English look as much like Latin as possible. Which was idiotic, because English is a Germanic language.
This is where we get the stupid rules against, for example, split infinitives. SPLIT INFINITIVES ARE NOT WRONG. And as languages particularly known for productivity in terms of compounding and not respecting the boundaries of word-types, verbing nouns and nouning verbs and whatnot are expected in a Germanic language.
Yeah, JT’s thread really needed to be closed (since he’s on vacation and doesn’t have time to moderate it) but I was really irked by the implication that the only people doing banworthy things were those disagreeing (“griping,” and isn’t that a dismissive word) with him. There are some truly egregious trolls in there. When I said you couldn’t get banned no matter what you did if you agreed with JT, I thought it was a joke…
Richard,
No doubt, but unil retail employees are treated with respect, those odious “price point” using assholes can take a flying fuck at the Golden Gate Bridge.
Besides, “price point” doesn’t mean “price” exactly. The best way I can describe it is if something goes on sale, its price point doesn’t change, but if the item goes on clearance, the price point does change. To shamelessly steal from The Price Is Right, we’re talking about “the actual retail price”, not necessarily the consumer’s cost.
or “now”.
But I bought a handy case to carry them in;}
skepticalmath:
Oh, hell, yes. And you totally can use a preposition to end a sentence with. And the direct object of the verb “to be” should take a direct object pronoun, none of this “It is I” bullshit.
(Sorry for the double post, something I really wanted to respond to got entered while I was typing.)
Robert B.: Yep, rape jokes are a-okay, but disagreeing with JT and friends, well that’s just unacceptable.
His blog, his rules, yeah. But you can still say those are fucking stupid rules and they really reflect badly on him.
Here’s a giant pile of bullshit. “The black hats have teh most feminist way of living, evar! If you’re a Chasidic woman and you don’t enjoy it, you’re doin’ it wrong. Also, Gentile women are all diseased whores.”
(Is that “our” Cipher over there in the comments? If so, did I miss this being posted elsewhere on FTB?)
Giliell,
I hope this is obly a rhetorical tactic which you know to be false, but are using just to hurt SC personally and poison the well. If so, then bravo, I guess. You are sufficiently ruthless.
But if you aren’t aware that what you’re saying is false, then that’s disappointing.
It means either that in the years you’ve been here, you’ve never paid enough attention to notice SC demonstrating her care for other commenters and their families — the same sort of care that everyone here expresses from time to time,
or it means that you notice but you have a limited ability to process those expressions of care as care — in which case you are really not equipped to judge who cares about other individials, so you should refrain from making such proclamations, and ask someone you trust for help in such judgments when they are relevant to your well-being.
…
oblyonly …Ahhahahahhh, Korpiklaani \,,,/
(I’ve… um, done one of them. Won’t tell you which one.)
PZ’s in Reykjavik? Why, that’s practically a hollering distance from here. Drop in anytime, I’m just heating up the sauna and cold beer is on its way!
Needless to say, I’m threadrupt++, but thought I’d pop in for a quick “HI ALL!” Life is good at the summer residence. I’m kept busy between work, gardening and plain enjoying the great outdoors – luckily I can drop the work part for at least a couple of weeks this summer.
So, how many are coming? I have to make sure there’s enough bacon for all.
skepticalmath, ctd…
But notice how no one* objects to splitting a participle phrase, even though those consist of a single word in Latin…logically those latin-centric draconian grammarians should be (have been) outraged by English phrases like “who are about to fucking die” which couldn’t possibly exist in Cicero’s tongue.
*No one I know. I’m sure someone actually did/does.
Hey, all.
More trans talk over on JT’s blog, initiated by Christina.
I’ve commented here. It’s long, so I won’t copy it here, but if you’ve been following, you may want to read it.
Christina isn’t all fogged up about trans folk’s stories of being on the receiving end of hell. She’s fogged up about a statistic. Moreover, one that is obviously mis-generallized even if it was ever true for a certain sample. She’s obsessing about numbers rather than people. I just can’t imagine a way to miss the point a little bit harder.
I also haven’t been morphing over at JT’s. It’s been two days since I’ve even read the thing. I can only stare at a trainwreck for so long.
Happiestsadist – *666* of course! Duh! :D Me too! (OK once upon a time – now only 6 in shoes and ring size, but I feel I am entitled to my triple 6’s anyway dammit!)
Antiochus Epiphanes #37 – ITA with you on I, for one (I use it in my attempts at humor posts for my pompous, petulant alter ego constantly – also “Moi”, “Yours truly” and so on. I, for one just sounds pompous and redundant). And I am so happy to see someone else has a problem with “utilize”. I first noticed that in use among business-types working with Mr Nifty. The word they need is nearly always “use” .
Louis, yikes on poo stories. But also lol – your account of the early morning’s events was hilarious. Thank you! :D
Katherine, I hope you run with that story idea. The characters sound really interesting!
OK, I had better get to work. I was supposed to be writing/running laundry/paying bills this morning and instead I’ve done a bit of research for a post, read Pharyngula, thrown in a load of towels, read Pharyngula, shuffled bills and then shoved them under a book (Paperweight), read Pharyngula….
Speaking of PHaryngula! PZ, I am trying to resist, but envvvvvvvyyyyyyyyyy! Seriously want to visit Iceland someday.
Good Day to All!
I love you.
Audley:
Oh, no doubt. I worked retail, but even outside of that field the concept has its uses. It’s really a tool for comparing the features of various goods in a fuzzy way.
I usually describe it as “clustering” around a price rather than a specific price. For example, there’s a price point for cars at $20k: there are certain features and weaknesses that people expect for a car that costs from $18k-23k, give or take, so manufacturers tend to “aim” for making a car with about those features at about that price. That’s a legitimate “price point”: the actual price of the car isn’t $20k, but if you tell people you bought “a $20k car”, they generally know what you’re talking about.
That doesn’t excuse people misusing the phrase in an attempt to sound smarter than they are.
To add to the discussion about language I would just like to say that my skill set includes thinking outside the box.
On another subject, Republicans are worried about losing Florida’s massive set of electoral votes. We know this is true because their reduce-the-number-of-likely-Dem-voters tactics have been astonishingly varied, and are still ongoing. It’s almost like they had a plan to tilt the playing field or something.
They’ve dismantled voter registration drives, killed same-day registration, sent threatening letters to mostly Hispanic voters and ….. well, it just goes on and on.
The Tampa Bay Times published a few good articles about these basically unfair practices, and about the timing. No one will be able to drag the Republicans through the courts for these underhanded tactics until after the November election.
Excerpts:
Rachel Maddow’s coverage of the same issue.
Excerpt:
It can be difficult explaining to research students as they start their first large piece of writing that it should be written in English not jargon (or at least in whatever language they are expected to write it in, but as clearly as possible). Part of this is a vicious circle due to the students reading lots of papers which were written in jargon, so they think that papers have to be written in jargon so that’s what they write theirs like, so the next lot of students think they have to be written in jargon too and so forth and so on…
The idea when you are attempting to communicate your research is that it should be as clear and easy to understand as possible, not obfuscated in the misguided notion that it makes you look cleverer.
I am fairly proud that my theses were written as much as possible in English, and that my relatives could read it (they didn’t understand all of it, but it was readable).
First rule of paper writing: don’t write in a fashion that is liable to piss a reviewer off.
And no one tends to enjoy trying to wade through scrap-heaps of jargon.
That advice holds no matter what it is you are writing.
What those who think using jargon and complicated sentence structures fail to understand is that is clear and unambiguous writing that is the mark of someone clever.
The first time I wrote a science paper for publication, I gave a draft to the PI, and she returned it with the comment, “You are an English minor, aren’t you?”
Because I didn’t just do a jargon dump. There was a lot of jargon, of course, but I also paid attention to clear language and grammar.
Hmm, it looks like the reason that a load of the images in the sidebar are broken is that the image sources were on the scienceblogs site, and since that got all shuffled and updated those images are either not their at all, or have been moved elsewhere and the links in the sidebar here need updating.
I’m using “jargon” in the “technical terms” sense.
Dianne,
This is not accurate as you’ve stated it — some psychologists can prescribe drugs — and it ignores the question of who wants more psychologists to prescribe drugs, and who’s opposing that.
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2011/03/07/prl20307.htm “Psychologists already prescribe in the military and the Indian Health Service. At the state level, they gained prescribing rights in New Mexico in 2002 and in Louisiana in 2004. […] Legislators in Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, New Jersey, Oregon and Tennessee are considering bills that would allow psychologists to prescribe psychotropic medications. But the measures are staunchly opposed by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Assn., state physician organizations and others who maintain that the proposals would jeopardize patient safety.”
http://www.bmj.com/content/324/7339/698.5.full “The American Psychological Association has been lobbying since 1984 to gain legislative support for bills that authorise psychologists to prescribe psychiatric drugs. The association argues that it is more cost effective for patients to receive their psychotherapy and drug treatment from one practitioner.”
http://mentalhealth.about.com/cs/psychopharmacology/a/prescribe.htm “It is in this atmosphere that psychologists in the United States are increasingly calling for legislation allowing them to prescribe certain psychotropic medications, following additional training in physiology and pharmacology. Psychiatrists strongly oppose this move by psychologists. Their opposition resulted in the American Psychiatric Association pulling out of a joint project with the American Psychological Association, the Treatment E-Journal.”
“Since” instead of “because”…
Yes, yes. Grants, too. Grants that are painful to read rarely get funded.
@Niftyatheist:
I based those characters off a group of security guards I saw hanging outside of the auditorium at my brother’s graduation several years ago. Of course some alterations (cause there are no elves in real life) and some exaggerations of their qualities need to be made, but they’re interesting people.
Given how much I’ve got to restart with my current novel, and the fact it’s just like running into a brick wall all the time, I may be tempted to replace it with the guard drama first…
Jargon of the shorthand variety is only really appropriate when speaking to other people who understand the jargon. It’s like the rule of acronyms – unless you’re absolutely certain that the people you’re addressing know what they all mean, you should spell them out. Even then, you generally spell them out the first time.
Jargon of the “making up new words to say old things” variety is really worse than useless.
Hi Minnie!
Maybe next year.
Yes, any field will have its own share of technical terms that we do indeed label ‘jargon’. But as Esteleth says there’s a big difference between a jargon dump where there are terms used without explanation, (especially TLAs) and technical terms used appropriately within the text in ways that make it either easy to understand in context, or easy to look up to find what they mean.
Just for fun: Andy Samberg’s speech at Harvard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ImSbixBsOk
…Okay gang, I need to put up the “ally” flag here (as in, calling for advice from an ally, not claiming to be one). Have any of y’all with survivor experience got a few minutes to talk in real time? Pharyngula IRC would be my preference.
Hi Chigau!
Next year’s cool, too =)
Kitteh just brought in dinner: an _almost_ dead vole. Yummy! (Either he thinks he needs to feed me or he’s trying to teach me to hunt.)
Oh..kkaaaayyyy.
I just sat (with clenched teeth) through the whole LOLcat video.
That was fucking vile. Anyone who skipped out early, trust your instincts.
Yeah, agreed, don’t even bother trying to watch that. I couldn’t watch past the first 30 seconds.
Urgh… language. I love the English language but the following 2 things make me pull my hair out: 1) Americanised business-speak and 2) text speak (I don’t use text speak in my own SMS messaging).
I am approaching bald because 1) I work in the advertising industry and 2) spend too much time on the internet where most of my friends, including meatspace ones, are illiterate idiots.
Only myself to blame, methinks.
Pteryxx: I dunno how IRC works, but if you’ll put up with my n00bery, I’m up for chatting.
@Minnie:
Oh yay! Just make sure you praise him for his good catch, take the offering and surreptitiously dispose of it.
Survivor experience in what sense, Pterryx?
Rape? Domestic violence? Homophbia?
Katherine: I always praise them when they bring me their fresh kill (well, with Bruce it’s mostly newts and earthworms, but still). But I not-so-surreptitiously disposed of both of them out to the yard. Voles must be eaten al fresco Chez Minnie =)
pterryx: Yes. I’m a survivor of rape, other sexual assault, physical violence as a child and adult, and domestic violence.
I’ve also done professional research on the topic of QT survivors of sexual and domestic violence.
I’m more than happy to talk.
@Dianne
Incorrect. Medication only papers over the cracks in most cases. The most effective use is for drugs to be used in combination with therapy, and this was certainly the case with me.
Unfortunately the simple route is to load problem people up on drugs and leave them to it. There’s also the mercenary/medically irresponsible route.
Disclaimer: I’m on Prozac, plus have been having therapy for years. My psychiatrist can prescribe, and she gets fuck all out of arranging for my medication, but does get paid for face time (obviously). “Effective” antidepressants won’t deal with the root causes of people’s issues unless it’s purely chemical imbalance, drugs in and of themselves don’t treat the psychological or behavourial problems.
I luv you too, Crip Dyke!
Richard,
I also love that “price point” can refer to a location, as in, “Shelve X in the kid’s section with the 9.99 price point.”
As far as jargon goes, it’s just “fuzzy” enough to be both hella useful and completely grating when someone uses it out of context.
And now for something completely different: I bought a fruit cup to have with my lunch and it came with a tiny, collapsible spork. ♥!
Pics or it didn’t happen.
I must see this putative pile of collapsible cutlerian cuteness.
For what values of “most cases?” “Most cases” of what? I can tell you that my obsessive-compulsive disorder and severe depression are most certainly not “papered over” by meds. They’re effectively managed in ways no therapy ever could for me. No, my anecdote is not data, but neither is yours. I don’t know what you mean to say but it sounds like a variant of a troublesome argument: “Pills are just a quick fix. You’re morally obliged to do the real work of therapy.” Or the idea that meds don’t “really” fix the problem, they just alleviate symptoms. Duh. The symptoms—ya know, the inability to go to bed instead of spending five hours doing ritual checking behavior, for example—ARE the problem.
The fuck are you on about? That doesn’t even make any sense. Why the hell are you on Prozac if it doesn’t treat any of the problems? Dude, your therapy experience is great but it’s not the universe of psychiatric problems and treatments.
Ugh, that lolcat video. No words to express the vileness.
But yays! Language pet peeves! I’m a post-grad student in Latin. I love the latin language, the way it’s like figuring out a puzzle or a complicated equation. What I don’t like is the way it seems to make normal, nice people into pompous, hyperbole-spouting asshats. I try not to do that. I do not always succeed.
So pet peeves: hat-tip to Lynna for “thinking outside the box” OMFFSM. What the fuckity fuck fuckstick does that shit even mean?! Nothing, that’s what! If you’re good at problem solving and that’s what you mean, SAY THAT! If you are good at finding creative, innovative solutions, SAY THAT! But “thinking outside the box”? It’s nonsense! It has no meaning at all! Either as a sentence or as a concept!
Whew. Actually, that goes for most of the business-talk. FFS!
Another thing that irritates me but doesn’t drive me to levels of verbicidal rage is something which I’ll admit is silly and which I’ve fought about here before but which still irritates me whenever I hear it:
“I could care less”. o.O
I am proud to say I haven’t been morphing on JT’s little internet toilet. Why would I? I was having plenty of fun just being myself, no need to be someone else as well. I’m also pretty sure I’m not banned.
Josh, 200.
Hairy Chris did actually answer this in his post:
Which, as Happiestsadist pointed out, makes it hard to believe JT is thinking of anyone other than me or Ms. Daisy Cutter when he accuses people of morphing. I’ve seen several variants of ‘nyms use to shout “Baboons. . fuckers!!!” from slimepitters, and that’s it. Oh, those merit no moderating comment, of course.
No, Gen, Uppity Ingrate—he kinda contradicts himself:
That’s one statement. And give what he wrote prior to it it’s a reasonable supposition that he puts a lot of weight on non-biological factors for whatever (he doesn’t say) pyschiatric condition he’s referring to.
Then he states:
That doesn’t mesh with the possibility he leaves open in the first clause, that drugs could work if there’s a chemical imbalance. Rather, he just flat out says they don’t treat any problems.
Perhaps it’s just bad sentence construction.
Of course, Josh. I don’t even think we can accuse JT of ‘Tone Trolling’ anymore, apparently insults are just fine (as that one jackass poster keeps pointing out) just as long as you agree with JT! So I dunno what he’s doing anymore, but it’s pretty pathetic and vile nonetheless.
What a twit. He’s only an ally to privileged fuckers like himself.
Josh
I’m not speaking on behalf of Hairy Chris or anyone else, so sorry if I’m just butting in. I would like to address this, though. I agree that there is that mindset out there and that it’s bullshit.
However, that’s not what I’m seeing here.
For some people, the root of their mental illness is “simply” (HA!) chemical imbalance and medication alone “fixes” (you know what I mean with “fix”, right? I mean establish a way to cope with everyday life and all that other stuff that “psychological wellness/wellbeing” refers to) it just fine and that’s wonderful, or it should be.
For others, however, the root or effects of the mental illness cannot be “fixed” by medication alone since it’s not just or no longer just a chemical imbalance. And these people often experience a problem accessing care that’s not only “Take these pills and STFU until you’re better. You’re not better yet? You must have taken the meds wrong.” And often in uber-skeptical circles: “Meds are proven to work (blah blah evidence and citations). If they don’t work by themselves to “fix” you, the problem must be with you”.
That doesn’t help anyone, it just judges and blames. From what I see, thatattitude is what the conversation is about. I have not seen “ZOMG THERAPY IS A MUST YOU LAZY NO GOODER YOU FOOLED BY BIG PHARMA SUCKERZ” argument.
My just as of Friday ex-boss was the master of saying a lot without saying anything. Going in to meetings with him was a cringe fest as he was a full on stream of little phrases and sayings to hide the fact he didn’t have a clue what he was talking about. If it was a technical meeting it was even worse. He can fit 3 or 4 of these into each thought no problem
skys the limit
100 ways to skin a cat
but here’s the elephant in the room
this that and the other
we need to feather these two projects together
but to cut to the chase
to make a long story short
200,000 foot view
we need to attack the big rocks
here and now
circle back
apples to apples
moving the meter
and to your point
it ignores the question of who wants more psychologists to prescribe drugs, and who’s opposing that.
As far as I know, psychologists have absolutely no medical training. They don’t know any more than an educated lay person about issues like serotonin syndrome or how to treat the side effects of haldol or what monitoring is needed for clozaril. Why do you want this group of people prescribing drugs?
Good point, Gen. The opposite attitude is rotten as well. It’s probably confirmation bias on my part as I’m highly attuned to the “only therapy can really cure you” nonsense as a longtime meds user for serious problems therapy can’t help me with.
Crip Dyke, Esteleth, thank you so much… I apologize, I panicked and jumped right into IRC and forgot to check back here. I don’t know exactly what I’m going to do now but I am talking to someone. Thanks again. (Also I haven’t read anything.)
Oh Chimpie, I know that guy and he’s loathsome.
Crip Dyke:
Tiny spork! :D
Dianne,
Why do you claim that I want this group of people prescribing drugs?
Truth is he was a decent enough boss to work for as he left me alone to do my job. He should have left me alone to run those meetings too. That’s where the failure came in.
Josh
Yeah, I’ve seen that too. I wish people would be less judgy about the medical decisions and needs of other people. I mean it’s not their body so what the fuck? The guy says he doesn’t want/need it!
I’m one of those people who need both. Therapy without meds? Disaster, culminating in almost suicide. Meds without intensive therapy? Same.
Also, I see your point about the sentence construction – I didn’t notice it before.
@Audley:
That. Is the best thing. Ever.
Donald Trump and Mitt Romney are fundraising together in Las Vegas. The Donald has prefaced the event to by bringing up Birtherism yet again. The RomneyBot has prefaced the event by failing yet again to distance himself from The Donald’s forays into crazytown.
http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/29/11938947-trump-cant-help-himself
Article is by Steve Benen, and is accompanied by trainwreck Donald video.
Louis, the all-time championship goes to Wife. Whe once changed boys diaper while driving on I-95, in New York City, during rush hour, while driving a Subaru wagon with a manual transmission (Boy’s car seat was on the front passenger seat).
@214: That seems to be the implication of your post. But perhaps you were just asking questions.
dianne @ #209:
(sort of a side note here)
From my personal experience as a psych undergrad, at least one biopsych course is usually required as part of the degree. I would imagine it wouldn’t be all that difficult to expand the bio content of PsyD training* in order to provide the knowledge background needed to be able to prescribe medication safely (or to an MD’s standards).
Hell, I’m in a social psych graduate program now, and even here the focus towards biological basis of behavior/cognition seems to be growing.
—
*A doctoral-level degree that focuses on therapy, rather than research. I wouldn’t expect this “curriculum enhancement” to apply to Master’s level degrees in therapy. But dunno, maybe it’s feasible?
Why don’t we distinguish between drugs’ varying effects on behaviors, emotions, reasoning, perceptions, not to mention different forms of each? Is it an effective treatment if it treats only one or two of those, for some people, some of the time?
@Audley –
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! <3 <3 <3
@Ogvorbis:
I am in awe.
Kat,
The tiny spork has made my day.
That and the thunderstorms that are approaching. Maybe this heat/humidity will break soon.
Anecdata:
My brother’s just finishing up his Ph.D. in psychology. He is absolutely horrified by the idea of psychologists being asked to prescribe drugs.
In his view, it would be one thing to ask him to prescribe an antidepressant for an otherwise healthy 25-year-old. Not advisable, but he probably couldn’t screw it up too badly. It would be another thing entirely to ask him to prescribe an antidepressant for a 75-year-old with cancer and a heart condition, and to manage all the potential drug interactions.
I, on the other hand, am on permanent moderation at both JT’s and Lousy Canuck’s. The latter seems particularly interesting. How better to deal with a triggered rape survivor than to shut them up, and to do so publicly?
Josh @ 204: Yep. Slimepitters are welcome and free to do as they please.
I hope you will forgive a non-native English speaker for using words or sentence structures that annoy you. I despise text speak, so I try to avoid that, but I often find myself tangled in too elaborate, awkward sounding sentences. The sentence before this one probably being a good example.
I also quite probably sometimes use some words or especially idioms incorrectly, because I’m trying to improve my English by using things I hear (read) from people and sometimes I get it wrong. Corrections are more than welcome when I write something especially stupid.
My own pet peeve is a structure used by my mum : maybe probably. Look, it’s either maybe or probably, it can’t be both. Decide. And yes, I have told her that, but she keeps using it and my blood pressure keeps going up whenever I hear it.
Crip Dyke:
♥ It’s nice that I’m not the only one around here who is easily amused! :)
Gen @ 216: Well put. I started the meds during therapy, which was incredibly helpful on its own, but we had reached a point where my craziness and terror was kind of blocking progress.
Now the pills are still there, when I realized my constant major depression actually kind of fucking blows.
Dianne,
No, it wasn’t the implication of my post, and I obviously was not asking any questions. (You will notice there were no questions in my #179.)
You erroneously claimed that psychologists can’t prescribe medications. So I corrected you: “This is not accurate as you’ve stated it — some psychologists can prescribe drugs”.
You suggested that psychologists would be against medications because “effective anti-depressant medications threaten their livelihoods”. So I pointed out that this does not capture enough detail for understanding; psychologists’ professional organizations are in favor of medications, and they are opposed by psychiatrists’ organizations, who, for all these facile assumptions are worth, might just be opposing psychologists as a threat to their own livelihoods.
For your future reference: If the entirety of a comment that I make can be understood as correcting someone’s inaccuracies, then it’s a fair assumption that’s what I’m doing.
Audley:
Yes, but what was the price point for the fruit cup?
*runs and hides*
My pet language peeve is gratuitous use of the prefix pre-
Preregistration is [early] registration
Predilling is drilling
Preplanning is planning
[/rant]
Re: meds.
I have two experiences with them.
The first came in third grade (I would have been 9 years old). Teacher decided that I had ADD/ADHD and that I needed Ritalin.
I was, to be honest, disruptive in the classroom. After a rather, ah, memorable incident, the teacher had enough ammo to issue an ultimatum: I was going to go to a psychiatrist and come back treated, or I was leaving her class.
Went to the psychiatrist. Who, thankfully, actually talked to and evaluated me. Concluded that I do not have ADD/ADHD. Noted that I had a lot symptoms for high-functioning autism (that was the term back then). But, I was a girl, and girls don’t get autism.
End result: no meds. Angry teacher, but she was forced to yield.
The second came when I was in high school. Starting sophomore year (ish), I became severely depressed. Fortunately, I did not start self-harming, but I was exhibiting suicidal ideation (never tried). Mostly, I just acted out and got angry.
I got put on antidepressants.
No one thought to ask if there was a reason (i.e. not-due-to-me cause) for my depression.
Oddly enough, after I graduated high school and went to college, my new doc took me off them after my depression completely evaporated.
So. I did not really need meds at any time. What I needed was a friendly ear and an advocate.
That said: meds are important. There are people – many people who need meds, for whom nothing else works as well. Brains are complex things, and they interact with society in even-more-complex ways. The only thing we can say about universal statements is that they are bogus.
*shakes fist at Richard!*
Nerd: for what it’s worth, pre-registration (at conventions) actually has a specific meaning: it means off-site registration before the venue opens. “Registration” means on-site at the event. /pedant
Yes, Pteryxx. The convention that I ran had pre-registration where (for a period ending 2 weeks prior to the convention), you could register – online or by mail – and pay a discounted admission price.
Oh, and you’d get a printed badge, rather one that just had your name Sharpied on it.
Gen, I myself haven’t seen the “You must have taken the meds wrong” attitude anywhere, but I’m sure it exists. Like Josh, I’m more attuned to the antipathy toward psych meds as “quick fixes” and the insistence that one must put in years of grueling “work” in therapy.
IMO, the latter is borne of Calvinism. Maia Szalavitz has written about this, although I’m not finding anything of hers on Google right now that rings a bell.
Oh, if only…
I’ve never studied Latin, although I’ve studied several of its descendants. While some people, such as pseudosophers, do use it to make themselves sound more intellectual than they really are, I think the reason it seems to make “normal, nice people into pompous, hyperbole-spouting asshats” is that fewer and fewer people in our respective cultures know Latin than used to be the case.
Beatrice, I think most native English speakers here aren’t judgmental about non-native speakers turning a phrase that in the mouth or on the fingertips of a native speaker would be annoying. TBH I find “maybe probably” charming, as I do various phrases that are calques on foreign phrases: “outen the light” (Pennsylvania “Dutch”), “throw me down the stairs my hat” (French-Canadians), or “my bad” (from Spanish mi mal).
Question folks, why preregistration (before registration, implying you still need to register) instead of early registration, which it is. I can’t engage in prevoting, but I can do early voting…
I do understand the usage, but it doesn’t make sense to me.
Nerd: fewer syllables.
Also, I think “pre-registration” as being short for “pre-event registration.”
Pseudosophers! What an awesome word!
StarStuff, an uppity feminist,
Another suggestion for your conference planning: ASL interpreters for possible deaf attendees.
The Florida Association of the Deaf, Inc. might be a resource that can help find some interpreters. There’s a Deaf Resources link on the left side of the page, though it appears last updated almost 2 years ago, but there’s a long list of organizations that might have some information. There’s also the Florida American Sign Language Teachers Association at www dot faslta dot org (not sure if too many links will throw something in moderation). They probably know some resources, as well.
Hope that helps, and congratulations on the conference! Good luck with the development!
Still learning,
Robert
And for viewers of the resulting videos. Ooh! Ooh! See if anyone in the A/V crew is willing to write transcripts and/or video captions! /pet issue
Crip Dyke @ 167, I saw that too and I don’t get it. Surely there are a million different social statistics that can be re-examined for source and accuracy. Why pick that one for the “Oh look at how sciency I am!” buzz?
It’s like she’s proud of the fact that she can look past actual harm to get to “the truth.”
OMG. . funnel clouds over Burlington VT.
If the sky turns green and you smell ozone, take cover, Josh!
Especially the ozone thing. The sky doesn’t turn green as much as it is advertised as doing.
I’ve actually seen it used as you mention: putting together information that isn’t officially registering but just preparing to do so. A lot of times conferences actually do this: when you “preregister”, you’re not actually registering but instead “saving a spot” and filing everything so that, when registration actually opens, you’re automatically registered.
It’s usually used to determine how much demand there is.
It’s kind of like pre-ordering. You’re actually placing an order, but the order can’t be officially placed (and your credit card charged or anything) until the product is available. As well, the actual price may change or the release date might be moved. So, while you are for all practical purposes ordering, you’re actually just setting everything up so that your order can be automatically placed at the appropriate time.
Not only that, Richard, but for every person who pre-registers, that’s one less person standing in line at the reg desk. More people pre-reg? Less chaos, more people going to more events, less grumpy people complaining about the long line and process.
Esteleth:
Yep. Like, Blizzcon – you buy a ticket and “pre-register”, because you aren’t actually “registered” (and don’t have your badge or goodies or anything) until you pick everything up the day of the event (or, well, the afternoon before). I’d much rather they just do online registration and mail everything to me, but they do this to stop scalpers. As it is, the line for registration is usually several hours long before the registration hall even opens.
Also, “pre-reg” is a con(vention)-specific usage. “You and you, go help with the pre-reg line!” Would that make it a colloquialism?
Oh noes, Josh! We just have some wicked thunderstorms here. :-/
Josh,
Yikes! Hope you and yours are safe!
Still learning,
Robert
Funnel clouds (if that’s what they were) dissipated. The whole state is under tornado watch until 9 pm. Three counties, including the one abutting mine, are under warnings (meaning there’s actually a tornado, not just the possibility).
The Redhead wanted a piece of grilled meat for Memorial Day (all holidays must be celebrated). So I’ll leave work earlier than normal today, grill the marinating steak, and transport it (along with her clean laundry) with potato salad and broccoli/cheddar/pasta salad as accompaniments.
Not in my experience. Apparently the mosquitoes find me just as yummy when marinated in citronella smoke, as not.
–
How about “strange-bedfellow-of-convenience”?
–
I have a sewing machine.
We are not friends.
–
Huzzah!
Now we’ve got another little red-dragon-named-Romney related job for your team…. Subdual would be fine.
–
I don’t know, but I’m guessing that it’s German.
:)
–
Welcome in, Robert B. :)
–
Welcome in, emburii and theoblivionmachine. :)
–
*shifting gear to “skim”*
‘Cause otherwise I am never gonna get caught up otherwise, and I refuse to declare threadruptcy after yet another weekend.
–
….maggots….*urp!*
*skimming faster in desperate haste*
–
Ack, Tornadoes! My pet fear! Be safe, Josh!
Honestly, between the maggots, poo stories, pregnancy stories, and were-douchebags, this has been a really gross and disturbing run of TET.
…Wheeee!
I am ready to scream with hanging out on perfume blogs where people use the word “fragrance” to refer to the smelly juice. It’s so fucking marketingspeak.
Re: Talking, Pills and Mental Ills:
There’s a good body of data that “pills” alone help mental illnesses* like severe clinical depression**, “therapy” alone also helps mental illnesses like severe clinical depression, but the two together are more helpful than the sum of the individual parts. (I really am going to start having to link to Cochrane aren’t I? For fuck’s sake you will make me Google! Oh the humanity!)
The problem is a good number of “pills” are now off patent, i.e. cheap. Therapy is not cheap, not in the US, not on the NHS, not anywhere. It also comes down to the “therapeutic relationship” a great deal more, and it is much harder to quantify as an intervention. We’re also socialised to “have problem-want pill-take pill-problem solved”. The grand irony is the woo meisters (I’m looking at the nutribollockists and the homeopaths here) exploit this socialisation. I’m not saying the pharma industry doesn’t, of course they do, but (by and large) they do so with effective medications, or at least medications that have some demonstrable efficacy.
Hence we have arrived at a point where, like antibiotics, pills are used as a quick fix/over used. The sad part is they really REALLY have their uses. No one would ask someone with a complex fracture broken leg to not use crutches (a medical intervention) or to run a marathon on that leg. The pills for X can be and often are that crutch. No one should be claiming that mental illness is as clear cut, simple or obvious as “broken leg” by the way, but that is not to deny well described diseases like, say, bipolar disorder, which is as heritable as Type 2 diabetes, linked strongly to particular physiological changes in the brain etc and has a definite “physical component”. Note component =/= total cause.
I was reading something the other day about the under diagnosis of mental illnesses, I’ll try and dig it out. It’s perfectly possible to have over use of treatment X for an undiagnosed disease Y.
Louis
* Please, for the sake of my sanity and this discussion, take the niceties of the term “mental illness” as read. Yes this can be deconstructed, and indeed reinforced, but that’s a complicating factor here.
** Note the “severe”. It matters.
Pteryxx, #258
We aim to please.
Louis
What. The. Fuck.
Ew.
YUCK.
WTF, Daisy, that’s nasty!
Esteleth: Yeah, I experienced a similar thing as a teenager, only as someone who was ADHD and was diagnosed with severe depression. My grades started dropping in the eighth grade, and I was having serious problems focusing in general. Knowing that I was very intelligent and that I didn’t have a lot of excuse for what I chalked up to laziness on my part, I became extremely depressed and engaged in a lot of self-destructive behaviour as a teenager. I was institutionalized at the age of fifteen for “severe and worsening depression,” and they never bothered to check as to why I might be depressed. Antidepressants did little for me.
It took me years to get to a place where I had the support to finally get my life in order, and it was that that pulled me out of my depression. I’m not medicatable because I have heart problems that make ADHD meds unworkable for me, so I keep it managed with a combination of self-awareness as to my triggers (and self-indulgence when necessary) and a ton of support from friends and family. The wrong meds at the wrong time, prescribed by a negligent doctor, can be useless at best (which chalks up to worse than useless since they tend to lead to an assumption that the problem is fixed) and extremely harmful at worst. (A psychiatrist didn’t look at my chart a few years ago and put me on a medication that could have exacerbated my heart condition and killed me. It was a new med that he was probably being paid to push.)
I have a healthy skepticism of psychiatric pharmaceuticals, but I also have a ton of respect for how much good they can do for the right people when the right drug is given in the right amount with the right amount of support.
Seconding Ms Daisy Cutter – WTFing F.
BIRD SMASH
Yikes, Josh! Stay alert!
I’ve got sweet fuck all done today. Really bummed. Well, at least I finished laundry. (ugh)
Nothing new written in four days. There is too much going on the world and it is all too WTFy to squeeze into 1000 or so words.
Although, Katherine – you have inspired me to pull out an old manuscript and maybe revisit a few ideas.
Nerd, hope the steak is tender and juicy and the Redhead is delighted! I also hope you were able to manage that nap yesterday in between the other chores you had saved up for the “holiday”.
Off to pick up a nifty boy. Try not to fill up this thread in my absence or I, for one, will not be amused!
Josh – storm system is hitting us now. Earlier all state agencies had to reduce their use of electricity because poor little downstate was all hot and didn’t have enough to run all their air conditioners, so everything where I am got shut down. The fun thing is that the air handlers in the building are linked to the heating and cooling systems, so when there is no air conditioning, there is no air movement. Bah. I left early to beat the storm home.
Hope you don’t get sucked up and thrown into Oz!
Ms. Daisy Cutter @262: No seriously, WTF?
I have nothing to say to that. Except phrases that include the non-sexual use of the word “fuck.”
For fuck’s sake, sex cards?? Way to crank the creepiness up to 11, assholes.
When are people going to wake up and realize Hemant Mehta is an asshole and very much not-nice to a whole lot of people?
Ms. Daisy Cutter @ #262: Holt shit, that’s every possible kind of creepy. The notpology makes it even worse.
Hey, everyone! A concern troll has shown up at the Skepchick post!
Wants to know just why it was the proposition was bad.
*headdesk*
Re the Skepticamp WTF incident: It took me a good ten minutes to realize, but this actually has some good news. The event had a (newly instituted) harassment policy in place, the incident was reported according to the policy, the organizer followed up on it, and notice was given. Names were not named in public, but anyone who experienced a similar event will recognize it and have the option to report. This is EXACTLY how a complaint should be handled.
Hemant: Example of how NOT TO HANDLE A HARASSMENT COMPLAINT. (Whether or not a douche move like that was expected, sheesh.)
Oh great. And now the overly verbose mansplaining has begun in the comments. “But..but…even if you don’t want to be propositioned by strangers, why can’t you appreciate that they were so nice about it?”
Carlie and Josh,
Fuck! We’ve got tornado warnings up, too. :( :( :(
(And I just realized that I don’t have either an accessible basement or an interior room with no windows. :-/ )
Nifty,
I haven’t gotten anything done today, either. *sigh* Oh well.
OFFS I am summarizing Barbara Kingsolver essays and this one is basically blah blah Columbine happened because violent video games make us think killing is great blah blah blah.
I’m actually really tempted to use a variant of that as my summary. In “Life Is Precious, or It’s Not”, Kingolver asserts that blah blah, biddy blah, I’m so pearl-clutchy, throw out your video games.”
Too bad it would make me fail.
I have fresh baked bread on my desk at work for a recipe I’m making soon. The smell of the bread… it’s driving me mad. I want to tear into the bag and rip chunks of the bread off and eat it… but I have to use it in a recipe T^T
Josh,
I’ve never been able to understand why anyone likes HM. I found The Friendly Atheist years ago when I was first becoming more vocal about my non-belief and even then I could see that he was a flaming doucherocket.
Mansplainer doesn’t understand the difference between admiring from afar and approaching someone. Jebus.
Audley – stay safe. I think most of it is going north (um, sorry Josh).
kristinc – I’ve always loved Kingsolver’s work; in fact, The Poisonwood Bible was a huge influence on my road to atheism, and some of her essays in High Tide in Tuscon got me through some of the most trying times of having toddlers. But in the past few years, something’s changed and seems to have slipped in her writing. Where I used to see a bit of magical slidey thinking here and there, it’s kind of taken over – I could barely read A Year of Food Life through all the sanctimony and rah-rah earth-ness of it.
Honestly, between the maggots, poo stories, pregnancy stories, and were-douchebags, this has been a really gross and disturbing run of TET.
Aww. And I haven’t gotten to tell a single story that ends in “…and then it fell off” yet. It’s hardly a gross thread without necrotic body parts, is it?
Re. freaky story over at Skepchick:
Jesus Babiroussa Christ, how creepy can you get!? Honestly SEX CARDS?! My mind is blown!
Re Kingsolver: I lost interest in her writing after “Pigs in Heaven” undid all the action in “The Bean Trees” and ended with the hero concluding that she’d better get her man while she could. Bleh!
Yeah, Carlie — this essay collection is Small Wonder and some of them I’ve really liked — the one about the San Pedro river and the one about the scarlet macaws were just gorgeous. But then she goes and yaps that genetic engineering is “a fist in the eye of God” because something something evolution, or thateveryone can get to a farmer’s market for their morally pure vegetables, and I just want to smack her.
Haven’t read Poisonwood, plan to.
Katherine Lorraine,
I empathize. The person in the next cubicle over from me has just finished a delightfully-smelling lunch.
Must ignore olfactory stimulus . . . must ignore olfactory stimulus . . . must . . . ignore . . . *stomach grumbles*
Audley,
Bathroom with a bathtub large enough to crouch down in? Also heavy coat/blanket to cover over with? Safe wishes to you and yours, and to everyone else confronting severe weather today!
Still learning,
Robert
@Audley:
I’m just bothered that Friendly Atheist is almost a Slimepit Lite.
@Desert Son:
Fresh-baked bread is second only to fresh-baked cookies for making my stomach growl. The only things at my desk are cashews, cookies, and Skittles.
And of course I’m summarizing, so I can’t point out where she’s full of crap. Sigh.
I’ve seen Korpiklaani twice in concert here in the U.S. Great show if you’re into folk-metal.
seculartranshumanist,
Yeah, I’ve seen them a couple of times here in Belgium. They’re awesome. Always great fun.
Robert,
Thank you very much. I’ll keep my eye on the sky and an ear to the radio– if I need to, I’ll use my tub!
Wow. . just got back in from outside. There was a spot of organized rotation right over my head. . .spinning counterclockwise like a nautilus. Moved on, but whoah. . . .gonna keep watching the sky. . .
HOLY SHIT! Explicit sex cards?
100 points for brass neck.
-1000000000000000000000000 points for being creepy and inappropriate.
I can get behind the idea of handing someone a card, i.e. here’s my number, and leaving it unstated that if they ever wanted to take things in a different direction let them do so. Not a sex card, a simple number on a bit of card-card. But to a speaker? At a conference? Erm. Professionalism. I think not.
I can see it at the next chemistry conference I’m at:
Me: Hi Prof X. Nice Y. Here’s a picture of my balls. If you ever want to, ya know, have them dipped in and out of your mouth, just dial 0800 LOUISBALLS. I’ll see if I can fit you in, so to speak.
Prof X: Erm. Listen fuck knuckle, I’m a Prof, giving a talk at a conference, as much as I am down to fuck in my private life, and of course I am, I’m a Prof, we all fuck like rabbits all the time, the time to approach me for this is not now, and not with a picture of your balls you dribbling little scum monkey. Now fuck off back to your obscure little corner and make with some science, motherfucker.
I’m guessing…not a top flight career move.
Sure this wasn’t a professional conference per se, but the person presenting is still a professional, not a semi conscious ambulatory fuck hole. This is identical to a bloke presenting a woman with a cock shot as an opening gambit. It’s creepy and slightly greasy all at the same time.
Going with GAH! Now.
Louis
*Faints*
Katherine Lorraine,
Indeed. In addition to your list I would add pizza, and my grandmother’s recipe frijoles simmering.
Still learning,
Robert
Daisy 262 & Pterryx 265:
yeah. Bad stuff. But I’m with pterryx, the super-worst part of this is Hemant’s response. he really needs to hear about that.
kristinc #276
Kingsolver writes about struggles for social equality and balancing individuality with community living. Unfortunately, she shies away from significant problems. Everyone in her books turns out to be inherently good and well-meaning. The men are sensitive and sexy and the women are intrepid and resilient. (And all the children are above average.) She seems to think that if we love our parents and children by devoting ourselves to homelife, the world’s problems will simply and easily go away.
(mostly ranting)
What bugs me personally about those sex cards is that, I’m pretty darn sure, if someone handed a nekkid sex card to me I’d go “Oo. Hm. Yay for sex!” and probably not realize anything was wrong. With the reminder-cue that yes, there’s a harassment policy in place, and yes giving out sex cards probably counts, I MIGHT have enough of a clue to say “Hey, you card person, thanks but you realize that was against the rules, right?” I doubt I’d have clued in that if they handed cards to one random person (me) they probably handed them to others who weren’t so sanguine about it. To my shame, I *probably* wouldn’t have thought it merited reporting before this discussion happened.
But it damn well DOES merit reporting WHETHER OR NOT IT BOTHERED ME. I mean shit, people, how hard is this! (mostly meaning myself.) I don’t get to decide what other people “ought” to be skeeved out about. No. Consent is EVERYONE’s responsibility.
Really? You’ve been reading and commenting here all this time, and you still don’t know I’m a woman?
That’s fine, except that your comment seemed to imply that I had presented it otherwise and/or that I don’t know the difference.
I’m well aware of that.
Or 15 or 20.
Huh? You lost me a bit here, but it’s not that important.
The suggestion that there might have been another variable or set of factors that coincided with or led to both not taking drugs and to good outcomes is completely valid. It is, in fact, what Harrow, Whitaker, and Levine are speculating about. Harrow – who, I agree with Whitaker and Levine, interprets the implications of his study too conservatively – believes they had “better internal resources associated with greater resiliency.” Levine attributes it to their being “anti-authoritarians who question the legitimacy of authorities and resist those authorities they assess to be illegitimate ones” and “having family or friends with confidence in the possibility of recovery and in their treatment choices.” Both of these would theoretically explain why they came to refuse drugs. Whitaker argues that it looks like largely the harmful effects of the drugs, citing other research about the effects of the drugs long-term on the CNS, the dynamic of the different groups, and the fact that those with a more serious diagnosis off drugs fared better than those with a less serious diagnosis on drugs.
I don’t think your claim that Harrow is saying that the people not taking drugs, who did well/better overall, were “less sick” is accurate, and it’s misleading. That they were doing about the same at the 2-year point after which they diverged over time doesn’t seem to fit with this. It’s also contradicted by the plain fact that, as I’ve already noted, (in Whitaker’s words) “At the end of 15 years, the global outcomes for the four groups lined up like this, from best to worst: Milder disorders off meds, schizophrenia off meds, milder disorders on meds, and schizophrenia on meds.” (This didn’t change at the 20-year mark.)
There are several problems with using the personal/social characteristics factor argument to support your case about the drugs, though. Let’s say, taking Harrow’s or Levine’s suggestion and running with it, and discounting Whitaker’s entirely for the sake of the argument, that the good outcomes for the people who are due to some personal characteristic or social condition that also led to their choice not to take the drugs, and not in large part to the fact that they weren’t taking the drugs. The reasonable response to this – and I think this is the basis of a lot of thinking about interventions – is to try to find out exactly what these characteristics and conditions are and to help people create them. (The existence of this group puts the lie to the common argument that bad long-term outcomes result from deterioration associated with the “disease,” but that’s another issue.)
This still doesn’t account for the drug outcomes, though. I don’t think it’s reasonable to respond to these findings by saying, “well, OK, there are some people who don’t need drugs but they’re still necessary for others.” The outcomes for the group taking the drugs, whether or not we assume that they lack some aspect of character or social support, are terrible. In fact, the evidence suggests that the small percentage of people on the drugs who had decent outcomes probably did so despite the drugs.
From Levine’s description:
Harrow’s research questions – “[D]o all SZ patients need antipsychotics indefinitely? Are there factors that help to identify which SZ patients can enter into prolonged periods of recovery without antipsychotics?” assume that some people need to take and should be taking them, and that taking them is conducive to prolonged periods of recovery. His findings argue otherwise.
The only way those drug outcomes, in my view, could be seen as supportive of recommending the drugs (they would still not be supportive of the disease model underlying their use) would be if there were no successful possible interventions and not intervening at all had a recovery rate even lower than that for taking drugs. Neither of these applies in this case. Not only are there other interventions existing and that can be developed and tested as knowledge grows, but even just not taking the drugs long-term has decent outcomes. The drugs haven’t been shown to be “better than nothing” or “better than the alternatives.” They’re far worse.
Of course, it’s just one study (but probably the best we have). That’s why I’m saying it has to be seen in the context of the other evidence in diverse areas. I don’t think any case hinges entirely on it, but it sure as hell should make people think again about the costs and benefits of these drugs.
This has to stop. Seriously, in the time it takes people to write these snarky, ignorant ad homs they could be reading through half of his book. It’s a fairly quick read, and I can only interpret these sorts of comments (which you’re not the first to add, by the way) as statements that you have no real interest in the matter and will look for any reason to avoid actually engaging with arguments and evidence. I am not saying that any of these books is perfect, but really, the relentlessness of these comments is making me lose hope.
Oh, re Hemant’s remark: Elyse (the speaker) says he meant it ironically. Okay, I’ll take that into consideration, with salt, since she was right there and I trust just about anyone’s judgment of tone over mine.
http://skepchick.org/2012/05/sex-and-the-keynote/#comment-150485
Okay, I’ve just foolishly agreed to participate in some sponsored charity run… Trouble is: I haven’t actually done any serious physical excercise for almost a year (not since a mountainbike trip last summer).
Besides all the other things people have mentioned about the skepchick propositioning, I’m also annoyed about how the couple tried to pass it off as a “joke.” How often have we all seen some bully or other person acting inappropriately try to excuse their bad behavior as a joke. It’s not a plausible excuse. Jokes are supposed to be funny. Handing someone a naked picture with contact information and then running away is not in the least funny.
“Ha ha ha, I made you feel embarrassed and angry, isn’t that hilarious?”
@Louis: There’s a good body of data that “pills” alone help mental illnesses* like severe clinical depression**, “therapy” alone also helps mental illnesses like severe clinical depression, but the two together are more helpful than the sum of the individual parts.
This.
I tend to get up in the argument and loose track of the big picture at times, but I agree with Louis’ statement. Drugs work for some people, therapy for others, a combination of the right drug and good therapy is most effective the majority of the time. Bad therapy or the wrong medication can both do harm. Neither is magical and perfect, both have their place in the treatment of various mental illnesses.
Okay, can I just say: Sex cards are fine.
it is the environment in which the cards were used that is NotFineTM.
It is approaching a knowingly-captive audience (e.g. someone present for work purposes) and despite the non-sexual context and inability of the person to decline the interaction, shove a sex card into said person’s hand.
Sex Cards are fine. Don’t know why people are writing sentences that amount to “Sex cards, FFS?” and nothing else.
I’m sure some to most folks doing this really mean something like, “Someone gave someone at work at sex card without any context or warning, WTF?”
I just wanna take a moment to defend sex cards as a thing, if that’s what you wanna do with your photographic equipment and mad web skills. Their existence is entirely separate from their horridly inappropriate use.
You’ve been reading and commenting here all this time, and you still don’t know I’m a woman?
Actually, no, I didn’t. Sorry about my assumption.
‘Tis himself,
Oh, I agree completely. The whole ‘it was a joke’ thing is a weak excuse. If you ignore that, the apology seemed sincere, but that ‘joke’ business is just suspect. It’s exactly what playground bullies might say.
Crip Dyke,
Sure, the mere existence of ‘sex cards’ shouldn’t be a problem, as long as they are used and handed out in an appropriate context.
Seconding Crip Dyke. Totally fine to have happy sex card trading when all parties welcome it. (I’m not shamed exactly, but rather embarrassed, to admit it’s good that the harassment discussion happened BEFORE I heard about sex cards being a thing. I can see myself screwing that up badly. *wince*)
SC: Did you read the actual Harrow paper at any point?
WRT: ‘it was a joke’.
No, let’s be fair, I’m sure they would have similarly explained that it was just a joke and that they handed the sex card to her with absolutely no intention of anything sexual had she reacted favourably, never brought it up in public, not contacted the organiser and nobody but the three of them had ever known. The first thing they’d have said to her when she turned up at their door or email address or phoneline or whatever would defo have been that they were only kidding and nothing sexual was meant by it.
Pterryx @300:
Thanks for that follow up. I didn’t think that there was any more I needed to read on that thread, especially after donboc showed up to mansplain, “If you didn’t realize that people are attracted to public speakers, surely you do now!”
Yeah. Thanks donboc. I totally get to undo my creep factor on Mehta and you come along to restore the Cosmic Creep Balance.
Just what I needed.
This week’s Game of Thrones was incredible. I wish I could find a source for “most expensive TV episodes” because I’m sure it would be near the top, if not #1 (all I could manage on that front was a list of most expensive pilots, which GOT topped).
I’m really excited every time the show makes a departure from the books because it puts me into the same position as my TV-only friend who I’ve been watching with. Then when there isn’t a departure from the source material, I get to watch on in glee as he is made upset by the hinted-at character deaths and listen to his theories for how Arya is going to swoop in and save the day. I call him a beautiful tropical fish a lot (Parks and Recreation in-joke).
It’s incumbent on me to acknowledge Elyse’s clarification of Hemant’s meaning behind that remark. I’m not fond of him for a lot of reasons, but I jumped to conclusions on this one.
dianne: Are you going to respond to the substance of my lengthy reply? Feel free to quote from the paper.
*LOLsnortle!!!*
–
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New Thread!
*mopping brow*
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Truly? I’ll have to check that out!
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Mmmm….burglarization…..
*running away fast*
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Yes! Plus, neologising is fun.
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Hi, Minnie!
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…tornadoes…
*skimming even faster*
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@313: That would be a “no” then?
Happiestsadist:
6.5 shoe, sizes 4-6 for rings (size 1.5 for little fingers) and size 6 in clothes.
They did it as a goof.
Yes, cicely.
To convert womens to girls, subtract 2.
Also, below about 5 girls, they are also wider.
pentatomid,
You might check out Hill Country Running and their Training Groups menu bar link to the 5k program (you don’t have to be in the Texas Hill Country, I just chose that site because it’s one I know and it has a somewhat helpful beginner’s program overview).
The beginner’s 5k program is 9 weeks. They break it down by time, not distance. So, the prep runs are interval runs from, say, 20 minutes to 40 minutes, and it doesn’t matter how fast you run, the important thing is to train in the time, not the distance. Basically, the beginner 5k program is just one run a week (Thursdays), with the other days of the week either as rest days or doing core muscle or extremity muscle training.
At the end of nine weeks, you run a 5k! Good luck with the run!
Still learning,
Robert
Business cards usually come in really big orders, like 250-500 cards. Do you think they also use these for things like the “drop in your card for a free latte” drawings at the coffee shop? O.o
pentatomid, there are a lot of c25k (couch to 5k) programs out there designed to build you up to running distances. They start off with very different definitions of what “couch” means. Even the best one I’ve found assumes that you can jump from a 5 minute run straight to an 8 minute run, and then up to 13. (UGH), but they can provide some guidelines.
Sex cards? Great idea in a swing club or at a sex conference, with a web address on it and an indication of what the address links to and why. Naked photos foisted on people, even those who are in a finding sexy partners venue is just creepy.
And there is no way that this was a joke, that’s absurd and offensive.
I see StevoR, warmonger, is still posting here. I’m hoping he’s changed his views on that subject.
Fuck it. This is pointless. In lieu of something dripping with sarcasm, I’ll just say
Carry on.
And predrilling is better referred to as piloting.
Carlie, I can print pretty fine business cards at home ten at a time.
SC,
Just FYI, don’t lose hope entirely! I’m going to have to go away order then read the books, dredge up the criticisms and defences etc, and get back to you. I’d like to claim I’ll have that done by morning…but…erm…no!
There’s a lot of stuff there to consider and read, so I will get back to you, but I suspect holding your breath on the matter would be a severe health risk! ;-)
Louis
I should clarify that I can see value in having a second term for drilling a pilot hole over drilling a finished hole in a work to be assembled. That is where I have seen predrilled used in the past and would have used piloting myself, but it has hardly impeded my ability to understand what was meant.
Hmm. Rather forgot about the prison rape joke at the end of my video clip in #317. Feel free to turn off the video at 5:30.
I like to pre-eat any french fries that may have fallen into the bag as I drive them home.
Antiochus Epiphanes.
Pervert.
Louis
Is that like chewing them but not swallowing?
Dhorvath,
Prude.
Louis
Is anyone here going to the AHA conference next week?
Louis, you should know the difference between me clarifying on kink and passing judgment. If not, I have done a piss poor job of over exposing myself.
OK, thanks, Louis. I logged back in just to tell you that and also that both books I mentioned appear to be available from the UK Amazon for Kindle. (You don’t need an actual Kindle – you can just download the Kindle thing, which is free and takes like a minute, and then the book, which takes a few seconds, and then can read it on your computer right away.)
You lost me a bit here, but it’s not that important.
No, it is that important. Pre-morbid functioning and seriousness of disease are extremely important variables in determining how someone will do after contracting a certain disease. If you blow off issues like how severe the illness is as “not that important”, I’m not sure how you come to any conclusion at all.
Levine attributes it to their being “anti-authoritarians who question the legitimacy of authorities and resist those authorities they assess to be illegitimate ones”
Ok, there’s one basic problem here: Levine doesn’t appear to have the most basic understanding of schizophrenia.
What’s the basic problem in schizophrenia? I doubt you’ll answer that, so I’ll make it a rhetorical question. It’s not the hallucinations. It’s not the delusions of grandeur or paranoia, although those can occasionally lead to difficulties. It’s not violence-schizophrenics aren’t prone to violence unless there is a concurrent substance abuse problem. The major problem with most schizophrenics is the amotivational behavior, aka the “negative symptoms”. These symptoms lead to schizophrenics neglecting little details like going to work, continuing school, paying their rent, taking a shower, etc. and cause them to be homeless, jobless, institutionalized, etc.
So, if a person is able to “rebel” and question authority, they are likely not as severely effected as those who are not able to do the same. In short, if Levine is right, he has pretty much demonstrated that Harrow is also right: people with schizophrenia who are able to rebel are more likely to be going into remission and less likely to need medication.
The libertarian narrative that being a rebel and questioning authority will lead to wonderful things all the time is a compelling one for Americans, but you really ought to have some level of skepticism about it.
Declaring myself threadrupt as of #261.
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Drugs work, therapy works. Not universally or perfectly, but often enough that we need them both.
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I made it through most of the trainwreck LOLcat thread over at JT’s house, and about half the hilarious/horrifying I AM DE LAW thread.
Josh, happiestsadist, Ms Daisy Cutter — y’all can come sit on the porch with me any time you feel comfortable doing so. You been done wrong.
I tips me lid to carlie, WilloNix and jenniferforester for their persistence in plowing that rocky field too.
The insistence on a sharp line between content (what people “actually” said) and context seems flat-out delusional. At the most basic level, words have no meaning without the social context in which they are embedded. (I mean, duh) Sometimes, “I’m just asking” is as effective as a slur, and sometimes, “Bless your heart” serves better than 400 words of pedantry.
I went in there with no prior experience of JT’s blog. Read a couple of things, benefit of the doubt, seems reasonable, ahh, interesting point, nod, hmm … wait what … no … the hell is this video? And why are you … no that’s not … FFS WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT??
Un. Believe. Able.
I may not be the sharpest Crayola in the knife drawer, but I’m pretty sure that “ally … mine is the only opinion” falls under #doingitwrong
Hopefully I will have something more articulate to say after sleep. Meanwhile — I missed you all <3
Hi Bunsen! :D
*throws a bunyip at Dr. Bunsen*
Drbunsen!!! Oh, how I have missed you. :)
— JT & Co.
HS, yeah, the fauxpology was the icing on the cake.
Esteleth, I just read that comment from Donboc now. What a fucking moron. Did he even read the post?
Why would she want that information? Oh, wait, I forgot, Teh Almighty Peen and its Needs take precedence over everything else, and any wimminz it happens to like must take that into consideration.
And, of course it’s a mansplanation that takes up three whole screens…and he pulls a hissy fit when Elyse calls him sexist.
Josh, I wouldn’t sweat about jumping to conclusions w/r/t Mehta. He’s not someone who has earned the benefit of the doubt.
‘Tis:
Good to know there’s one author I never have to worry about not reading.
Heya, Dr. Bunsen. I’ll bring the sweet tea.
[Kingsolver] seems to think that if we love our parents and children by devoting ourselves to homelife, the world’s problems will simply and easily go away.
The punchline is that Kingsolver is often called a feminist author.
Hi Dr. Bunsen! You’ve been missed.
Dianne, it must be that school of “feminism” that the extreme attachment parents lay claim to.
Thanks, Dr. Bunsen.
Weirdly, Jason Thibeault is going on about how he and I have some kind of history of disagreement. I think I’ve disagreed there…once before this? (And commented positively as well in the past.) Can’t imagine my having such an impact that he’s been grinding his axe all these months.
What immediately comes to mind is “For me, it was a Tuesday.”
Happiestsadist—I rather suspect it’s me Thibeault is mostly griping about since I’ve criticized him many times before.
Just noting: the initials JT shouldn’t be used for referring to Lousy Canuck, even though he has perhaps better claim to them than the younger Mr Eberhard. (Now I have to work out whether to inspect the latest train wreckage, and very probably become horribly upset at other fellow human beings.)
A time-lapse short video popped up on Accuweather earlier. I could only name two locations for sure which means I need to brush up my geography. There was one shot in there that was so perfect, and the night sky so blue, it didn’t look real. The video was kind of cool so I thought I’d share.
————————————————-
Mmmm, hot dogs with scrambled eggs and peppers. I think I shall get some rice from the Chinese place, mix it in, add some salsa and dump the lot into a tortilla or two for lunch tomorrow.
————————————————-
All right, catching up with new thread (already??)
In re: Sex cards
Not a problem if you’re at the right type of event, but only events that are specifically about sex are the right type, and even then I wouldn’t recommend putting photos on them personally. I am not in the least surprised that the people who started passing them out in an extremely skeevy and inappropriate circumstance identify as swingers. While I have no problems with nonmonogamy generally, and engage in such relationships myself, IME swingers are almost invariably mysoginistic creeps. I suspect that it comes from the origins of the swinging subculture in ‘wife swapping,’ a concept whose misogyny should need no explanation. Incidentally, male/male sex is also a huge no no at swinging meetups, but female/female is encouraged (for the benefit of the menz, of course.).
Yeah, but it is still much nicer than the Raj-infested The zombie TZT Thread.
===
Sex cards? Why not cards for sorrow and cards for pain?
(sorry, I know this is a serious subject but that’s where my mind went.)
Reminds me of the time my boss told us that we needed a pre-meeting meeting to set the agenda. I asked if it was safe to jump right into the pre-meeting without the pre-pre-meeting. He just glared at me.
(still on about the sex card incident…)
Note: I’m not asking for help with Clueless here, just venting.
*sob*
How did you read it like that? What was not that important was that she was a bit lost about what you were saying, not that the issue itself isn’t that important.
I don’t know what SC had in mind, but personally, I’m confused about this part:
How are they more likely to function poorly, but at the same time, be expected to do better?
How are they more likely to function poorly, but at the same time, be expected to do better?
Well, fuck. I should read my own writing once in a while. Should say “…better pre-morbid functioning…” or “…less likely to have poor pre-morbid functioning*” or something similar. I’ll go write “proofreading is my friend” on the blackboard 100X now.
*Aka were doing better before they had the psychotic break that led to the diagnosis of schizophrenia.
I asked if it was safe to jump right into the pre-meeting without the pre-pre-meeting.
At one point there was a committee in NYC to (let me see if I remember this right) discuss whether to plan a preliminary survey of whether planning a concept for the long proposed second avenue subway line was feasible. I may have missed one or two levels of meta in there somewhere.
dianne:
Well, for something that would cost as much as a new subway line, preliminary meetings to decide whether or not is is even worth doing could save shitloads of money. Right now, the studies to return passenger service on the old DL&W mainline between Scranton and central New Jersey have cost millions. And they are still not to the construction phase. If I recall correctly, there were about ten years of preliminary meetings before the formal planning and engineering studies even began.
Nooo! Don’t avoid Kingsolver. Read “The Poisonwood Bible”. It is amazing. Also, “The Lacuna”. Brilliant.
Also that stuff about making things better by lurve and domesticity is a gross mischaracterisation.
Well, I’m glad that I’m not the only one who thinks Kingslover writes a bunch of crap.
(still on about clueless commenter in the sex card thread on Skepchick)
…
…This may be the greatest triumph of internet resource finding I’ve ever had in response to a banal comment. Clueless commenter asked why men IN MOVIES get to ask random women out all the time.
My reply:
It’s almost worth tangling with clueless over there just to find out that such a thing exists. *squee*
Hi Dr. Bunsen!
First, you argued that people who did better had worse “pre-morbid functioning,” and assumed this meant they had better possibilities for good outcomes, even though you acknowledged you weren’t sure what Harrow was talking about. Harrow’s interpretation of the reasons for his findings was not about “how severe the illness is,” and this suggestion misleads people into thinking that people not on the drugs did better because they were “less sick” or had a “less serious illness.” These people had diagnoses from psychiatrists about the seriousness of their alleged illness. I talked about how the different groups on and off drugs fared. You could argue that a large number must have been misdiagnosed, but this is obviously grasping in light of the findings. If you’re going to reject the initial diagnoses in light of the results, there’s little point in any such research. Further, this doesn’t look good for people arguing in support of the drugs and the model. You’re arguing about the disease of schizophrenia and so on; if it’s so ridiculously difficult to diagnose the disease and its seriousness, the model isn’t looking good.
If you want to say that Harrow argues or shows that the people off the drugs had relatively good outcomes because they were less seriously ill by some recognized standard that isn’t being created retroactively, be my guest.
This is an irrelevant batch of assertions which assumes things that are in fact much contested.
You need to try reading what people have actually written rather than reading into it. I wasn’t endorsing either Harrow’s or Levine’s ideas in that post, but I was suggesting that they’re similar. They both focus on factors (that are not “seriousness of disease”) that might be argued to cause people both to reject the drugs and to have better/good outcomes, which is a totally valid argument generally. I then made a full argument about what this means for interpreting these results, focusing on the problems with your claims.
Now you seem to be putting forward your own idiosyncratic definition in order to respond to one guy’s notions: that the defining feature of “schizophrenia” is being conforming and acquiescent, such that if people rebel against drugs they must not be as seriously “schizophrenic.” I, too, think the DSM diagnosis is silly, but this is obviously a retroactive ploy. And it’s built to fail since it just responds to one person’s speculation, and only a part of that. Are people who have better support from family and friends not as severely affected, either? What about people who are more “resilient”?
You can redefine this alleged disease at your personal whim (you won’t be the first). But that still doesn’t deal with the outcomes for the drugtakers.
I really have to think you’re being intentionally illiterate at this point. I hope so.
*Just a note: I don’t accept this “people with schizophrenia” notion.
A little absurdity to brighten your morning/afternoon/evening:
one tiny hand
It’s interesting that I (as someone who has never visited his site) interpreted Hemant’s “why doesn’t that happen to me?” as an acknowledgement that female speakers are treated differently than male speakers, while others seem to have interpreted it more as a whiny “why don’t people give me sex cards”.
Anyone have a minute to fill me in on what I have missed about him?
Even if we assume that this is what Harrow means, your argument that follows, well, doesn’t. If two people, one of whom is in great physical condition and one of whom is in very bad physical condition, identically break their legs,* we would expect the person in great shape to recover more quickly, all things considered, than the one who isn’t. But this doesn’t mean, as you’re suggesting analogously, that one break is therefore less severe.
Your clarification here is perfectly in keeping with my argument.
*(I’m talking about the structure of an argument and not suggesting that anything under discussion here is equivalent to a broken leg or anything else about the comparison. This should need saying, but it does here.)
This should need saying
shouldn’t
Savory bread pudding = YUM
@ Audley –
That’s to hold the tiny, foldable spork!
@Diane #352 –
That’s why the comment about getting lost, as well.
Okay, what’s the code for superscript, for subscript and for heart gifs?
I’m just too tired of being ignorant for implementing these terribly important comment features.
PZ’s in Reykjavik? No-one ever says Reykjavik in a song.
You all can brag all you want, but my bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios in this extended stay hotel in north St. Louis County is JUST FINE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
JUST FINE.
We don’t have proper sup and sub tags here. Only option I know of is to copy and paste what you want from this page.
I think it’s ♥
Test: ♥
PZ wrote (my emphasis):
This claim disturbs me, especially given its plurality.
(I’d be surprised if this were true of any regular, astounded if it were true of an OM)
For dinner this evening:
Chicken, marinated in balsamic vinegar with rosemary, skewered with smoked chorizzo, sweet red peppers and onions, broiled (no grill — an electric grill is not a good idea during a rainstorm). Served with a risotto made with onions, sweet red peppers, garlic, a little leftover barbeque pork (no sauce, just really slow cooked and smoked on the grill), fresh basil, olive oil, sauterne, and baby peas. And I had a Saranac Stout with it.
Nothing for desert.
Crip Dyke,
Along with what lilapwl said, some codes for specific characters work, too. Like degrees: ° ° or trademark: ™ ™. I’m sure there are others, but I can’t remember them offhand.
Ah, love.
It’s Reddit, so expect the full range from deeply moving to really disgusting. Also, don’t draw any conclusions about the OP from the URL.
test
X²
X³
X´
X¹
Xɸ
Xɹ
huh.
Have any of you been following the shit storm on the Freethought Group Organizers facebook page? Holy fucking shit. I tried to point out that what they’re doing (insulting other organizers in “public” who aren’t even there to defend themselves) looks really bad and immature. I basically got “Nu uh! If you don’t like it, don’t look!” in response. WTF?
TLC:
You were unashamedly trolling.
(I don’t find that admirable)
*drooool*
Fresh…baked…bread….
–
Josh, is Vermont accustomed to organised rotation? Or is this new and sucky?
–
Hi, Walton!
–
And drbunsen, too!
–
Caught up at last!
*dance dance dance*
–
Walton @322 makes me think he must have gained a Paladin level.
@walton
Unfortunately, I think SteveoR is as stupid as ever. I bet he still supports Newt Gingrich because he said something about moon colony.
Ogvorbis
I lol’d so hard at this. Thanks, I needed that.
****
K, so I’ve read up about Madalyn Murray O’Hair, since I had no clue who that was before reading the Science Heroes thread thingie at Jen’s. I came away from that crying.
Then I saw this, about the guy who secretly taped and outed on the internet Tyler Clementi which ended in Tyler’s suicide, and I felt sorry for the kid. Well, for both the kids but for the first time, for the taper-guy. Especially when I read something like
from another forum I visited just before and cringed at how easily youngsters can hurt, as in really, really damage someone else, totally without meaning to.
And then I felt bad for feeling bad for him. :\ Oh, and it’s 3:15am and I can’t sleep any more.
Happy Wednesday?
Audley, Carlie, Josh? No twisters?
AAAAAAND once again some thoughtful Christian on YouTube has left me a comment on my Jesus & His Dinosaur Buddies video, informing me that yes, Christians do believe in dinosaurs, they just don’t believe the “lies” about them having lived 65 million years ago.
Does anybody else remember, like 15 or 20 years ago, the standard fundie response was that dinosaur fossils were put there either 1)by God to test our faith, or 2)by Satan to deceive us? I recall hearing or reading those arguments several times throughout the 90’s–yet current Xians seem to think I made it up.
Fuck. They change their story, and pretend (or convince themselves) that they’ve always believed the same thing. Also by turns amusing/irritating is the smug assurance that all Xians believe the same thing, in detail. If theocracy comes to America, they’ll be happy for about ten minutes–then maybe, just maybe, they’ll start to understand what the word “divergence” means.
Rant. Rant rant rant. Grrrr.
If you have time and youtubes, this old copy of a Donahue show (whatever that is) features Madalyn Murray O’Hair kicking religious ass and taking names in a way that I can only stare at in open-mouthed admiration and wonder. If I had know about her sooner, she’s who I’d want to be when I grow up. What happened to her is just…
Yep. I was taught that one (both variants) in fundie-lite school. (I fought back, hence my pseudonym.) ~;>
I have to admit that until now sheltered little me had been mercifully unaware of the existence and function of sex cards. It does seem a bit odd to hand a card bearing a depiction of your sex organs to a stranger, I mean, let’s face it, a lot of them wouldn’t really be of the, err, quality to convince another person of wanting a piece of them. Weird idea.
No. They evolved.
Christianity is very into revealed knowledge. Since it is revealed knowledge, it is absolutely right from day one. Never mind that a Catholic would find a 9th century Catholic service extremely odd, the assumption, amongst at least a couple of Catholics I know, is that, save for the switch from Latin to vernacular, there is no difference between a 4d century service and today. Were that not so, it would call into question the validity of revealed knowledge.
It also gives some Christians a chance to be smug and condescending as they point out that we keep coming up with things that Darwin (our ‘high priest’) never knew. I have actually heard this in a personal conversation: “Well, we know that evolution is impossible because Darwin didn’t know about DNA.”
Gen – fizzled out here. We got a semblance of a decent thunderstorm, but they never reach anything like a good midwestern storm out here.
I just watched the 2001 movie Bartleby. Why the fuck did I do that?
rorschach:
err, TMI warning re sex cards…
Once folks get into the really obscure and rare fetishes, it’s harder and harder to actually find willing play partners by the usual means of friendship and dating. So, there are lots of ways of advertising what one’s into… the old hanky code comes to mind. On the Internet, there’s a fetish code with abbreviations.
Still no earthly reason to be handing them out at a skeptic convention, yeesh.
Watching La piel que habito. Wowsa. You can always count on Almodóvar for one hell of an experience. Finely tuned horror, this one.
A jumper for DarkFetus?
http://www.mentalfloss.com/store/Octopuses-Jumper-KOOCTO/#.T8V8u9WvKSo
Yeah. Never mind that Darwin’s theory essentially predicted that there was a physical mechanism for passing on heritable traits that was subject to occasional random mutations.
Also amusing, sort of, that by the end of the 19th century numerous branches of science, including biology & geology, were putting forth theories that required a world much, much older than 6000 years. And that the big sticking point was: how could the sun keep shining over those much longer timescales? Essentially, scientists from different fields were predicting the eventual discovery of a then-unknown source of power, used by the sun, which of course turned out to be nuclear fusion.
The fact that Darwin didn’t know certain stuff, and turned out to be basically right anyway, is a point in his favor.
I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused. But usually I just end up disgusted again. And I don’t have any red shoes anymore.
pteryxx @388,
I’m well aware of how to find fetish partners on the internet, let’s leave it at that…But it is my impression that even on the net those who send their prospective partners just cock or pussy pics are the awkward ones who don’t get to see much combat. To be doing this in meatspace just astounds me (let alone the at a skeptics conference and unsolicited bit).
For the couple of you in the North Texas area (I’m not sure how the username thing works, but I am the commenter what was formerly known as Jenniferforester; saying that once to avoid potential thoughts of morphing or whatever), I actually have a question.
Do any of you know of an atheist-friendly family or children’s counselor in the North Texas area? Alternately, do you know of any listing of atheist-friendly counselors nationwide? I know that most wouldn’t push religion, anyway, but after seeing the first several counselors on our insurance listed as Christian-specific counselors I feel discouraged, and part of our major issue has to deal with the religious indoctrination of one of my children against the express wishes of both of his parents. I would hate very much to walk in and vent about how they’re trying to turn my child into some rampaging Christbot and then be asked if I would like to become one as well. (My situation is complicated right now.)
On tornadoes:
1. No touchdowns, though multiple warnings went off around the state. That means either the radar picked up tornadic rotation (this is what distinguishes a watch from a warning) or a spotter visually identified funnel clouds.
There have been three barns that caught fire from lightning strikes (at least one was a pretty, historic barn with a cupola. We don’t do crap industrial architecture here.)
2. Organized rotation like what I saw is rare as hell here. I’ve never seen it in my life with my own eyes. There were actually two spots in the clouds (about 25 degrees of arc from each other) doing it, but the one over my head was the scarier. It was immediately obvious what it was; I’m glad it didn’t drop down on my parking lot.
I don’t accept this “people with schizophrenia” notion.
Ok. So suppose you met a 20 year old man with no significant past medical or psychiatric history. He is in college and did well the first year, but this year, his second, he has appeared increasingly withdrawn and distracted, rarely going to class, sometimes missing exams, turning in work done poorly and usually late. He has withdrawn from life on campus as well, spending much of his time in his room occasionally strumming his guitar but otherwise not doing much. He occasionally talks about hearing voices and how he thinks that people are watching him. He does not appear depressed and when asked about his mood says he feels fine. In fact, he doesn’t express much emotion at all, even when something emotional occurs. Gradually, he worsens, eventually ignoring basic hygiene and scarcely moving. His speech makes little sense.
What’s wrong with him and what would you suggest be done about it?
My comment at Token Skeptic is awaiting moderation. You know what, all these FtB bloggers who put those who on occasion dare to vocally disagree with them into moderation queues or dungeons should really ask themself why they are here. Pisses me off, this shit.
On Jason Thibeault—
Credit where it’s due. He’s recognized the hideousness of the LolCat video (Grrr, PZ. Grrr. I know you were on the road though.) and his updates and later comments reflect that.
Update on Project Porterhouse. The meat was seared on the outside, red on the inside, as expected (rare, very rare). While I needed to cut the meat, it was eagerly devoured and the bone gnawed on. I have since cleaned the dishes/utensils and threw out the remainder of the salads as they weren’t refrigerated for hours. I call that a success.
And, for the record, I did get a 35 minute nap yesterday. Followed by a bad night due to the heat in the upstairs bedroom.
Nerd, you’re as bad as Ogvorbis. Get a fuckin’ window air-conditioner in your bedroom! They can be had for less than $100, and they need only be run when it’s awful (so you don’t pay for electricity you don’t need).
huh. almost as if the conversation about how “schizophrenia” is a label for a mixed bag of symptoms didn’t happen.
strange.
Do you think it needs to be the same thing that’s wrong with other people who’ve been diagnosed with schizophrenia?
rorschach: Genital pics might be appropriate if the fetish in question was for a very specific sort of body part. *shrug* It’s not unheard of.
—
(great segue!)
Jennifer: there was some discussion of secular parenting resources and child care here, which I can’t seem to find at the moment:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/04/18/wait-i-just-got-home/
Also, a collaborator of JT (yeah him) just started the Secular Counseling project to collect references:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/wwjtd/2012/04/12/launch-of-the-therapist-project/
I need to upgrade my electrical service from 60 amps to do that. It was on my schedule for this summer. Now I have other expenses, like a stairlift, staring at me.
If two people, one of whom is in great physical condition and one of whom is in very bad physical condition, identically break their legs,* we would expect the person in great shape to recover more quickly, all things considered, than the one who isn’t.
So, suppose you consider two groups of people who break long bones. Legs, if you wish. Tibia, maybe. One group consists of 20-30 year old athletes without other medical problems. The other consists of 80-100 year old diabetics with osteoporosis. Both groups are initially treated the same but some later get physical therapy, others don’t. Suppose a year later of those who got PT, only 15% have returned to premorbid functioning (that is, their legs healed perfectly and they went back to their normal lives) whereas of those who did not get PT, over 90% returned to premorbid functioning. Would you conclude that physical therapy is worse than nothing? All the breaks were the same, and by your criteria we apparently can’t consider any other factors when deciding on the efficacy of a treatment.
Another example, this one real life. Perhaps you’ve heard of “chemo brain”, the sensation people have while getting chemo that their thoughts are “fuzzy”. There was concern that this might lead to permanent dementia or brain damage after treatment with chemotherapy. So there was a study of this problem using the SEER-Medicare data. The researchers took women with breast cancer and no history of any dementia, delirium, or other thought disorder before diagnosis with breast cancer. They then studied the survivors (I think at 2 or 3 years, don’t remember for sure) to see whether those who got chemo were more likely to have dementia or not. They expected to find either it did or it didn’t. What they actually found was that patients who had received chemo were less likely to get dementia later in life. Will you be getting your chemotherapy to prophylax against dementia when you’re 80?
Correlation does not necessarily imply causation, especially in an uncontrolled situation like this. The Harrow article is severely lacking in details about what exactly they mean by premorbid function and fails to use multivariate analysis where it should be used. Sweeping conclusions like “antipsychotics are worse than nothing” aren’t justified by the data.
Hey. No need to insult Nerd like that. Cheeze. Do you have any idea how big an insult it is to compare anyone to me?
G’night. The cold front has moved through (minimal storms here (though north, south and east of us got hammered with 3cm hail) so should be nice sleeping.
More and more I’m sticking to Pharyngula, Butterflies & Wheels, Greta’s blog, Hank Fox’s blog, and Mano’s blog. I always read Natalie’s posts but I rarely comment. But the rest of the FtB blogs are sliding into “visit occasionally if at all” territory.
Crommunist snarled at me for posting a joke too soon. No, I’m not kidding.
Gen:
We had about an hour when shit started to get pretty scary– intense lightning, high winds, hail, all the fun stuff. But no twisters, thankfully!
ImaginesABeach:
o.O
O.o
O.O
♥♥♥!
Speaking of disasters, are there any Pharyngulans in the earthquake zone in Italy? I’d have to guess not, because apparently they’ve had two in the space of a couple weeks and I just found out about the second one.
Do you think it needs to be the same thing that’s wrong with other people who’ve been diagnosed with schizophrenia?
Not necessarily. But you’re avoiding the question. What do you think is wrong with him and what should you (or he) do about it? Is there nothing at all wrong and he just needs a good motivational speech? Want to write him off as hopelessly stupid for losing his opportunities? Perhaps its his mother’s fault? What do you suggest?
Doc Watson has died.
not really. it’s just that pretending as if SC claimed that these symptoms don’t exist is a boring and already refuted strawman.
but fine, I’ll explain it to you. the comment about how she doesn’t accept the “people with schizophrenia” notion wasn’t about people actively exhibiting the symptoms that lead to a diagnosis of schizophrenia. it’s about the characterization of a person who has at one time exhibited these symptoms as someone with a chronic illness that occasionally shows symptoms, like for example “people with herpes”.
you want to argue whether that’s correct or not, go ahead. but at least argue with the arguments made, not some imaginary ones.
Yes, because I’m not a doctor. And you’ve told me very little about this person, so any answer would be unwarranted and open another round of attacks.
I think we need to understand that much better than we do at the moment.
Are those my only options?
It truly is. Also as if I hadn’t linked and subsequently referred to an article that linked to and discussed (amongst other stories) this. (No, dianne, I’m not “diagnosing” anyone or recommending any blanket course of action or therapy for every person. I’m presenting you with an alternative to beliefs you seem to accept uncritically.)
He should be labeled schizophrenic, drugged, and institutionalized, of course. (It bothers me that the question is framed in terms of what should be done with this hypothetical person by unnamed others, who are supposedly “us.”)
it’s about the characterization of a person who has at one time exhibited these symptoms as someone with a chronic illness that occasionally shows symptoms, like for example “people with herpes”.
Nice goalpost move. Ok, then, what’s wrong with the people who are still like that 20 years later. Did they not read enough of Bruce Levine’s books or what? And what do you think the right thing to do for people with these problems is?
your misunderstanding does not constitute a goalpost shift on anyone’s part
SC, Jadehawk and consciousness razor, I’d seriously like to understand what you’re driving at.
I think I understand that you are very suspicious of the motives of the pharmaceutical industry and skeptical of the skill/expertise/level of care provided by psychiatrists for patients presenting symptoms of mental illness (and subsequently receiving a diagnosis).
What I guess I am wondering is what would you like to see happen?
that better be a global “you”, since all I’m doing is correcting mischaracterizations of arguments on which I have no opinion or stance.
Seriously? When did I ever say that?
(Even stating plainly and explicitly that I was using this analogy to highlight a specific argument and that it shouldn’t be extended wasn’t enough, alas.)
Gen,
I grok you, and I’ve long been aware… though it doesn’t make me cry. :|
(If but it could)
I’m not a stake-holder in this argument, I’m just explaining and correcting mischaracterizations.
also “symptoms of mental illness” is potentially misleading as I already explained. at the moment, the symptoms are the diagnosis, for lack of any clue as to what might be causing them.
as I said: “depression”, “schizophrenia” etc. are not illnesses. they’re labels for certain sets of symptoms.
Himself:
What about Camels With Hammers?
All right. But those symptoms are still something a person (and hir family) has to deal with. What exactly should be done, barring a “miracle” of sudden understanding about the underlying causes of these symptoms?
Rev Big Dumb CHimp, I heard on NPR earlier this evening while I was driving. :(
[meta]
Jadehawk is doing what I might, had I her acumen.
(Here, I’m mediocre at that*, linguistic facility notwithstanding)
—
* That ain’t false modesty, that’s an admission.
“Tis Himself – those are my go-to blogs as well – with the addition of The Digital Cuttlefish.
I don’t think we’re all driving at exactly the same thing.
I’d like to see people, at the very least, critically but fairly and open-mindedly read the fucking books. I don’t think I’ve been especially coy about that. In the meantime (or if they’re not going to engage with these arguments), I’d like it if they’d not insist on posting baseless assertions, loaded questions, strawoo, ad homs, personal attacks, ignorant mischaracterizations, willful misreadings, and so on.
Pteryxx: Thanks! Alas, there are none on that network in the DFW area, but it was at least worth a shot. I suppose I can hope that the ones who aren’t listed as Christian aren’t too woo-ey, or I can ask them outright if they’re okay with the godlessnesses.
I’ll add that one set of symptoms is a lack of emotions or motivations, and that doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I’ve seen quite a few people diagnosed with schizophrenia exhibit anxiety, fear and so on. How much does that count, and how much should we expect to see?
of course
I don’t know. I don’t pretend to know. I don’t need to know or even make suggestions, since this isn’t my argument
but here’s my speculation, which BTW cannot be used to dismiss SC’s argument since it isn’t part of her argument:
Reification of labels into illnesses is not conductive to finding out what is actually wrong, nor to applying existing treatments of these symptoms effectively. Nor, I suspect, is the guessing on what the illnesses are based on what sort of stuff relieves symptoms (I think the analogy was that just because aspirin relieves headaches doesn’t mean headaches are caused by aspirin-deficiencies)
For what it’s worth, I’m driving at that as well.
@John #421 –
I’m also in favor of camiline carpenters.
huh. I guess the correction and pointing out of all of the above is really all I’ve been trying to do, so I guess in that sense, all three of us do want the same stuff (from the other commenters here) :-p
@SC
If it helps this exchange, from me skimming it has helped me understand what you’re saying more.
I just did a rough count. I like 13 of the FTBs, even if I don’t always like their authors (if that were a decisive criterion I could skip the internet :)). That’s pretty many.
OK, but you know it is possible that several people here have already read up on the subject – and may even be as skeptical as you are of the pharmaceutical industry and the illusion of greater expertise than is the case in the medical profession – and have come to slightly different conclusions. Are you willing to read an equal number of books/studies which present a viewpoint opposite to whatever it is that you are endorsing (if you have not already done so)?
I still find it hard to figure out what you are endorsing, exactly, too. I hear the call for open-minded reading and skepticism of current claims about treatments/diagnosis, etc. But do you have better ideas? Let’s say that one or more members of your family presented with symptoms like these, what is the next step for you? What would you recommend I or someone else do if we have family members who suffer a psychotic break or who exhibit symptoms?
What is the use of being convinced that psychiatrists and science knows SWA about- the symptoms currently known collectively as types of mental illness – if we are no further ahead in actually providing people with relief and help in managing these symptoms?
Dum deedum deedum… &heart;
Do deedo deedo… φ
la deeda deeda… °
Loop-de-loop™
hmm….
Thanks, Ing. I’m glad.
I counted 8 FTB blogs that I check to see if interesting stuff was posted. I regularly read only 4 of them though.
Ooops, further test:
I ♥ sex when fully consensual.
Please don’t take this the wrong way but, “argument from ignorance”?
Okay then, thanks for the help Audley & lilapwl. I think I’ve got it. ♥s to you both.
classic. :)
Maybe. Or maybe it isn’t really clear.
@SC
Not that I’m taking anyone’s side here (because I’ve found a way to feel superior!) but I’m less hostile to the idea now that I understand it better (though I might be reversing causation and I might just be reading better because I’m so mellow from this holiday). Though if I may add a constructive criticism, it may have helped me personally if you did offer more details previously rather than just the book links, sort of give us what the end game was? Might be an important accommodation (I hate myself now) you have to make to basically assure people “no this isn’t as woo as you might think”. It does seem to be that the revulsion to anything that stinks of Scientology woowoo bullshit denialism is targeted and viewed skeptically because of it’s stigma. Sort of like how if you actually had evidence of aliens you would (hopefully) go out of your way to show people you’re not some rabid kook. Technically this is a “tone/framing” criticism so feel free to reject it, not saying anything was the fault of someone’s communication either, I’m just farting out loud.
For those of you interested in today’s New England Bullshit Weather, the cloud rotation I saw directly overhead looked pretty much like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz86AFwClKM
Only a little faster, and without the sirens.
@Nifty
What I mean is that even if SC doesn’t have a better way, that would not invalidate her if she was right about something else being bullshit. Creationism isn’t right because evolution is wrong, and I’m not even sure she’s saying she is advocating a better way rather than just pointing out criticisms. That might be someone else’s department.
It never ends.
When my husband told be that, I felt like I’d been punched in the stomach. I don’t think that a day of my childhood passed without dad’s old Doc Watsom records being on the stereo at some point.
I have ever read 22 of the blogs.
I’ve been reading a lot of 5 blogs lately, but I only read 4 blogs regularly and that includes 1 that I haven’t been reading much lately because that one is The Crommunist Manifesto. I like Crommunist, but he had been on a trip for a couple weeks and not really posting anything. I’m still hopeful that when I’m firmly ensconced in CanadiaLand™ that he & I will eventually meet up and if we like each other’s in person personalities, socialize. It would be particularly convenient given we’ll both be on the same campus (he is starting a public health PhD program in the fall).
I’ve been reading a lot of WWJTD? lately, but that’s topic-specific and unlikely to continue. I’ve also been reading Butterflies & wheels a lot lately, but past experience shows me that I read that blog in spurts then let it lie fallow for a good long time.
So with the 4 that I regularly read, add 7 that I read more than rarely. The other 11 are rare reads when I get linked (usually from here) or when I see a particularly intriguing title on the Recent FtB Posts list.
I didn’t think SC was putting forward woo or BS (not saying you were saying that, Ing – just clarifying my own position).
I think she is skeptical – and justifiably so, IMO – of drug companies and the medical profession. I share that skepticism, but not in quite the same way.
Then everyone is in violent agreement….DAMNIT!
John Morales:
I disagree. I was unashamedly needling him, I was trying to taunt and provoke him, yes, but I meant everything I said to him. Perhaps we define trolling differently.
You are free to disapprove of my conduct or consider it ‘trolling’, though I will freely agree to the ‘unashamed’ part, but I hold that I was arguing from my heart.
Besides, the stupid shithead said insults were OK.
*sigh*
just read the recent post on Token Skeptic. did y’all know that talking about sexual harassment is what’s driving women away? it’s like Class Warfare and the War on Women: the problem is that someone is talking about it and thus
dividing the nationscaring Teh Wimmins.also, apparently whether education is better when government-run than when privately-run is a “value” and “opinion”, not an empirical question
I think I did offer some more details when this was originally discussed, and I have offered more than just book references. The problem is that the arguments made and evidence presented in the books (which, once again, are not perfect) are fairly complex. Marcia Angell provides a decent summary at my links here (and response to her critics at my link here),* and Kirsch talked about his work on 60 Minutes recently, but there’s really no substitute for reading the books.
I have been surprised by the vehemence of the reaction to these arguments. Much the same thing happened to Jerry Coyne when he presented them, so I don’t think there’s a sufficient amount of anti-woo cred that could prevent it. In retrospect, I’d probably do things differently,** but I don’t know if any manner of presentation would ward off the anger. It’s been revelatory.
*The ad homs about her came promptly, too.
**Though I don’t know – I’m constitutionally opposed to framing and strategizing.
Huh.
My only three bookmarks are this one, Greta Christina, and Crommunist. Otherwise, I regularly find myself on Butterflies and Wheels, Almost Diamonds, The X Blog, Camels With Hammers, and Rock Beyond Belief. (I am a Marine who left active duty in 2007 and, being a bandsman and thus a part of many a ceremony, I can tell you stories of some serious religious fuckery.)
I am wondering why Natalie Reed never made my bookmarks.
I give the others a glance and move on, generally speaking. However, when I get kicked back into full student-gear, I will probably revert back to the three that I mentioned and Natalie’s.
I have generally liked Jason Thibeault, and was disappointed by his latest. His concessions have mollifed me a little, though. I’ve done the butthurt thing before, and hopefully he’ll come back around all the way as well. That being said, I totally get why people are pissed the fuck off at him.
TLC,
Shhsh.
You were trolling no less than I, but I am subtler about it.
(I’m no less guilty than you, but neither is my motive* less pure)
—
* It might behove people to realise that my motives are poorly understood if idealism is presumed to be their ontological basis.
(Nope. It’s ungarnished SIWOTI)
Jadehawk:
Oh really? What is with the outbreak of idiocy on FtB lately?
Well, if we talked about sexual harassment less then there would probably be fewer threads with dudebros saying that bitches just need to learn to take a joke. Of course, the threads would have dudebros talking about how bitches needs to learn to suck cock and make sandwiches, so I don’t know that that would be an improvement.
I can’t speak for IRL.
Ah, I see, John Morales.
I think I suddenly find you slightly less difficult to figure out.
Well in that case I hope you enjoyed it no less than I did.
Yeah, I was just thinking Jesus fuck, we’re not over JT’s fuckup yet and now Jason steps into it too… OMFFSM, WTF KYLIE! *head asplode*
malicious rumors. lovely.
TLC, :)
Oh yeah, and:
What can I say? We (metaphorical) coyotes have been becoming bolder and bolder in recent years with increasing human contact.
I’m told it can be a problem.
In regards to JT’s blowup, I’m really disappointed even though I have no reason to be. I was deeply moved by the talk I saw him give on mental illness, and I expected more for some reason. He’s really good on that topic. I’m not slavishly devoted, and I’m not even a regular reader of the blog, but I was sitting there in tears watching that, and I’m kind of sick at where this went.
:(
Jennifer, Uppity Bitch and General Malcontent
See? Hive mind. That is exactly, down to the very last word, how I feel. Down to not being a slavish follower or daily reader but crying at the mental illness talk.
HIVE MIND OF THE GYNOCRACY. Proof at last?
Jennifer: This is my first real exposure to JT.
I’m extremely unimpressed from what I see.
I see you’ve taken on a title, btw. Nice.
The one way for JT to get out of this giant pisshole in the snow is to aknowledge where he was wrong. Walk the walk.
Stop making grand claims and show us the evidence. “Evidence” being, in this case, willingness to pull his fingers out of his ears and stop going ‘Lalalalalalalala I’m on vacation!’ and apologize for his ignorance, and ACTUALLY listen to what several people told him.
[meta]
Pharyngula has norms and rules and standards, other places have rules and standards.
(The
commentariatis what makes it work)Likewise. I complimented him several times on his posts on the topic, both for being frank and for “getting” it.
It’s another demonstration that competence in one area doesn’t equal competence (or basic decency) in another.
Jennifer:
Same here, on both counts. Unfortunately, after the talk on mental illness, JT has gone steadily downhill.
FtB Bloggers, luckily it seems that not all of them are suddenly and mysteriously affectedstaggeringly steep increase in pedo-ossial and cranio-gluteal surgeries to remove trapped limbs. Some even cause me to smile about this kerfuffle – see the very first comment. Go Kazim!
Jadehawk wrote:
I prefer Blasphemous Rumo(u)rs myself.
Related: how freakishly long is Dave Gahan’s neck? The man must be part giraffe.
Ugh. Stupid stupid… should be: luckily it seems that not all of them are suddenly and mysteriously affected by the as-yet unknown agent causing a staggeringly steep increase in pedo-ossial and cranio-gluteal surgeries to remove trapped limbs.
And also, I wasn’t going to say this because it’s so Get Off My Lawn, but it’s true:
JT, I was fighting for gay rights as a queer when you were fingerpainting in kindergarten. I came of age in the AIDS crisis, the years of watching my friends die and ACT-UP.
I don’t know who the fuck you think you are, or why you think you get to parade your dumb naive ass all over the stage and style yourself as an ally and a queer-rights activist, but you need to shut the fuck up once in a while. No doubt you stand up for civil rights and that’s commendable. But you don’t get a free pass young straight boy.
Seriously. Humility. Get some.
Josh, you might want to watch your tone. You might alienate potential allies! That would be the worst thing ever.
Jennifer,
(sigh)
Quotation from Yahoo answers to “perfect woman:”
“that is part of an old joke. it says the perfect women is 3ft tall with a flat head so she can suck your penis and you can sit a beer on her head while she stands in front of you.” (6 years ago)
Fuck yeah, Josh! Though unfortunately I doubt JT will see it.
The only thing worse would be those potential-but-driven-off-allies failing to lick my fucking taint.
Nice sniny new ‘nym, too, Jennifer!
Well, there are ways.
Like I said on TZT, it is liberating to learn that you can escape the hole. In the long run it’s far easier on the ego to admit you were wrong rather than digging heels in.
Wow, Josh. In that case I have a lot to thank you for. The fight I inherited is way easier and more winnable than the one you started with, and the difference is the work done by people like you. Thanks, man.
What aren’t more love loves like this?
What really irritates me about the whole JT thing is that he’s been so pleased when he gets feedback from lurkers/audience members/etc about changes he’s helped to inspire, yet on these threads he completely throws that out the window! “I’m an Ally ‘cuz I said so, nyah!”, defending rape analogies, tacitly approving of JAQers/mansplainers/victim blamers/general assishness all of a sudden–it’s just so wrong. The lurkers (myself included) are going to stop reading, depriving him of that potential assistance AND simple page views. He’s lost the *trust* that he’s tried to develop, and it’s hard to regain trust once it’s been taken away.
I’m also *very* disappointed by some of the commenters, especially in the “Don’t Derail” thread. There are some names that I recognize that have blatantly pulled their Privilege Shields up and spewed nonsense, some of it downright hateful. Shameful.
Now, back to my books. I made it to the library, er *liberry*, today and now have 6 1/2 books to finish! (Do I really *have* to go to work tomorrow? /sadface)
Mistakenly posted on another thread, I now assault y’all with my human ability to state the startlingly obvious (like, “Gee you’re tall,” or, “I guess we’re all going to die now.”):
Me:
/me.
We now return you to non-redundant programming.
As Robert B said, Thank you, Josh.
Thank you, Robert. Gah, I wish so many more people recognized this.
It has nothing to do with Josh; I’m just another guy in the progression of gay rights. We—all of us—inherit a world where our rights are a little easier to claim, where we have a little more room to pry the door open, where we have more freedom to say what we mean plainly and demand the legal and societal respect to which all people are entitled.
I inherited that world from the queens who said, “Oh no, motherfucker, not tonight!” and threw bottles and high-heels at the cops who raided the Stonewall bar in 1969. And from Harvey Milk, who got murdered for his trouble and whose killer slithered out of murder charges on the “twinkie defense”. And before them from the (as much as I detest their namby-pamby assimilationist ways) the Mattachine Society boys. And from the lesbians who formed the backbone of the response to the AIDS crisis, and who were cruelly shit on by comfortable white gay men when they came back and asked for help on breast cancer and women’s issues.
No goddamn one of us flies out of the birth canal into a tabula rasa world, and it behooves everyone to remember that and have some fucking respect.
And also—I’m not that much older than some of you at 37. But given how young I came out (12) and how quickly I got into politics and activism (14) it feels like a very long time ago indeed.
You’re really not, actually. As you say, you got started young, though. Also, frankly I’ve never been as involved in activism as I feel I should be, so thank you for taking up that burden anyway, ’cause I wasn’t carrying my share.
Josh wrote:
I keep forgetting you’re younger than me.
[beat]
Get off my lawn!
Not by much though, Wowbagger, right? A year or less?
Besides, once you hit 33 or so everyone becomes the same age and you start forgetting your birthday and merely estimating your age if anyone asks. Who can be bothered to care?
I actually hit that point a couple years before 30.
Yeah, I’ll be 39 in July. I could proably lie convincingly about it, though; most people are surprised by the actual number.
Pfft. Spring chickens, all of you.
I, for one, do not want old people on my lawn.
Oh man. I just noticed that ALL of the recent comments are in the Hovind/Bruggenwhatsit thread.
Something’s going down.
Whee!
The Capital Steps did a song about Keith Richards 60th birthday, redoing some of their songs. One of the classics was, “Hey, you, get offa my lawn” [instead of “cloud” I hope was obvious]. The joke might have been tedious in other contexts, but the great use of one of Rolling Stone’s classic songs made it work for me.
I no longer keep track of the number of years since acquiring my belly button. And I haven’t in quite some time even tho’ I’m barely older than Wowbagger.
…
I think…
ba-dum, chissss!
I admire you. At 14 I was a homophobic asshole and a creep. (I was bullied, but I also victimized others, often very severely.) It took me a long time to learn better.
====
As for Eberhard’s blog, I’ve rarely read it. I did come across a couple of his posts on mental illness (in which I have a keen interest, for obvious reasons) and on polyamory (in which I have no interest at all). Looking at these latest threads, he seems to have really screwed up here. The best thing he could do is apologize, and admit that he really didn’t get it because of his unexamined privilege (something I’ve had to do many times, about many things).
I’ve just come back to my hotel after clothes-shopping in Orchard Road. Think the biggest shopping center you’ve ever been in, x 22, and all in one street. It’s very dangerous!
Walton:
Dated information is dated.