Nice cephalopods and jellyfish, Caine! :)
Next year…. *returns to Sininsterly Porpoising*
(Which is actually taking up quite a lot of my brain’s back-burner time. Every now and then, it’ll barf up another “take” on it, and I add another stickynote to the growing pile.
I saw someone say “carpe diem” last thread. It’s a nice sentiment, but there’s more! I recently read the poem that the saying comes from in Latin class. The rest of that sentence goes like this:
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
Seize the day, trusting as little as possible to the next.
Oh fuck, I need to postpone the whisky, I’m really ill.
I’m sitting here shivering although I’m warmly dressed and the flat is heated
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottlesays
oh no, Giliell! Sorry you’re sick. Sending you chicken soup vibes. ;)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
*ERK*
I have nothing to say about Hitchens that hasn’t already been said. The latest rapologist thread has also left me flabbergasted.
Instead, I will report trivia. I have entered my grades. The semester is over. What’s more, all the headdesking and facepalming have done little to alter my craniofacial integrity. So there’s that.
Monday I start putting together my fucking tenure packet* instead of writing up some really unbelievable results. In essence, I will once more be mowing the lawn while the other kids play kickball. That’ll be a hoot. However, I have no beg-a-thon planned for the break. So there’s that too**.
*Advice is welcome. Like if there are any seniorish professors about.
**Counting my blessings and whatnot.
Algernonsays
I was arguing with theists on the Hitchens post on boingboing and I thought… I kind of miss pharyngula a little. Maybe I’ll go back there for today.
Algernonsays
I hate it when I realize that I *love* arguing some times and damn it… people just don’t appreciate that in some spheres.
Rey Foxsays
Tell me about it, Algernon. On the rare occasions when I argue with someone anywhere else, I’m surprised at how quickly the person who said the dumb thing just howls in confused outrage at the very act of openly disagreeing. It makes me wonder how they form opinions in the first place.
if we take the traditional view of Chinese history: whenever a dynasty lost the mandate of heaven, it was the divine right of peasants to rise up and overturn its rule – the one exception in Confucianism where the “inferior” is allowed to change the order of things.
But in more modern terms: the CPCh has been trying to spread the wealth in order to secure its rule. It has created a middle class vested in the continuation of its rule. But as the economic divide widens, the potential for an explosion increases. I think the CPCh needs to rethink its policies regarding the hukou system, and also improve conditions for migrant factory workers. Last year, there were some encouraging signs. Also, it needs to improve infrastructure on the countryside, in provinces that have been neglected until now. It should also continue to introduce quasi-democratic elections at the village-level, because this can be another safety valve. I’m not sure how widespread relying on thugs is, but that definitely does not sound like a sound long-term strategy.
regarding Hitchens,
I of course do not believe in an afterlife. But “may he/she rest in peace” I thought was a suitable phrase even for atheists to use, just because human beings often need some verbal comfort when something like this occurs. Or do you think the phrase implies a belief in the afterlife?
Pirate Party
anyone remember the spectacular success of the Pirate Party at last time’s Berlin elections? And the fact that they seemed to have a misogyny problem, what with only 1 out of 15 elected MPs being female? Now the Berlin state party org hired a female secretary general, but she turns out to be a major supporter of esoteric woo. (Article in German) She’s a political scientist and an alternative healer, conducting some kind of esoteric healing seminars, and expresses strange ideas about Aids and starvation in her book “You have the power over yourself”. She basically said that when some survivors of a plane crash die of starvation and some don’t it means that those who died “manifested their death because they could not imagine themselves to survive”, and that regarding Aids, actually it’s such nonsense I lack the will to translate, just that Pluto and Uranus play some role. Here’s the quote
Bei der Krankheit Aids steht die Bereitschaft zur Hingabe an das ganze Leben, einschließlich seiner dunklen Seiten, im Vordergrund. Zu integrierende Lernaufgaben sind meist die Fähigkeit, sich auf einen Menschen wirklich einzulassen, oder Verbindlichkeit mit all ihren Konsequenzen in Beziehungen zu leben. Gefordert ist die Integration der Urprinzipien Pluto und Neptun.
Julien Rousseausays
I have a question for you guys.
I have a muslim friend that claims that a young boy in Russia (Dagestan) is a miracle because he has skinwriting appearing on his body and the doctors are supposedly baffled (you might remember it from a couple years ago).
Now of course a quick internet search reveals that the most likely cause is probably dermatographic urticaria but as I luckily do not suffer from it I was thinking of using some chili powder to irritate my skin for a more graphic demonstration (something like “skinwriting is not a miracle” or “there is no god”) and thought I would ask you guys about the best way to do it and how painful it is likely to be.
So, any idea how I go about doing that? Simply mix the chili powder with water and dip a small brush in it to use as a writing implement?
Any reason why it might be a horrible idea and I really shouldn’t do it?
Any better idea?
Also, while I am at it, do any of you know of any creationism debunking books targeted towards the muslim flavor(s) of creationism?
ChasCPetersonsays
“Rest in peace” implies either a really boring afterlife or a really extreme form of ‘rest’. One.
jimmythe hatsays
I already put this out on another thread but people need to be see this.
After the seizure of some climate deniers computers and equipment in relation to the infamous Climategate hack, Anthony Watts has sent his flying horde of screaming monkeys to harass and in one instance, so far, issue a death threat over at Greg Laden’s blog. He seems sort of shaken up.
well when meant as expressing some kind of respect towards the deceased, the same way the coroner and the police detectives bow to the corpse when conducting an autopsy in Japanese police dramas? It’s not like the corpse would care about this, but it just shows respect to the person the deceased was?
Ah Dagestan, I once spent an evening with some friends, including a young woman from Dagestan. She was a moderate Muslim, unveiled and drinking beer too, a fun person, her father was a visiting professor, and she was pursuing studies in the same field. Then she told us at some point, if her brothers back home knew she was hanging out with strange men, they’d kill us. Not sure if that was Dagestani humour, or serious….
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
My Latin is pretty rubbish and just barely remembered, but I love this:
Non est, crede mihi, sapientis dicere “vivam.” Sera nimis vita est crastina, vive hodie.
(Martial)
I know there are lots of “proper” translations for this, but never mind … (nearly literally, I think):
“It is not, believe me, of the wise to say “I shall live”. Too late is the life of tomorrow; live today.”
Which Hitch did, more than most.
ChasCPetersonsays
I was just kidding, but if you think about it, “rest in peace” taken literally seems to be more of a hope that the deceased doesn’t become a zombie, vampire, or ghost-eternally-wandering-the-Earth-unfulfilled than anything relevant to (most) specific religions.
Happiestsadistsays
Julien Rousseau @ #11: I have rather excellent dermatographic urticaria, I could likely do that up myself with the blunt end of a bobby pin. It’d be a lot easier than applying chili to yourself.
Happiestsadistsays
Feel better soon, Giliell! *sends internet tea and soup*
sure I agree that the origin might come from that, but I understood PZ’s memorial post also to be calling out against using language such as this, and hence my desire to discuss on TET..
Antiochus Epiphanessays
I was just kidding, but if you think about it, “rest in peace” taken literally seems to be more of a hope that the deceased doesn’t become a zombie, vampire, or ghost-eternally-wandering-the-Earth-unfulfilled than anything relevant to (most) specific religions.
Taken this way, “rest in peace” sounds like a reasonable request.
cicely, Disturber of the Peassays
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
Seize the day, trusting as little as possible to the next.
–
I like it better with the rest of the sentence.
I agree.
–
Get well soon, Giliell. *hug*
–
Hi, Algernon! *waves*
–
I was just kidding, but if you think about it, “rest in peace” taken literally seems to be more of a hope that the deceased doesn’t become a zombie, vampire, or ghost-eternally-wandering-the-Earth-unfulfilled than anything relevant to (most) specific religions.
More along the lines of the quote from Salem’s Lot: “God grant he lie still”.
–
though it seems it comes from the funeral liturgy of the Catholic Church, based on Isaiah 57,2
…will come in peace, and they will rest in their beds, he who goes straightforward.
Acc to the Pffft, the Hebrew version has been found on tombstone dating back to the 1st c. BCE.
Anima eius et animae omnium fidelium defunctorum per Dei misericordiam requiescant in pace.
(May his soul and the souls of all the departed faithful by God’s mercy rest in peace.)
Irrespective of the religious connotations, I like the idea of expressing respect to the deceased by using a formula like this. Maybe there’s something else which can equally convey this kind of emotion? Else I’ll be stuck with “rest in peace”…
My ethics made me actually ill. I was at a restaurant with colleagues and got a turkey sandwich. I felt sick partway through the first piece and now deeply regret getting it.
Richard Austinsays
Could someone down a shot for me in Hitch’s honor? I can’t drink :(
I’ve always liked, “May the legacy of your good deeds outlast your failings.” I don’t remember where I read it. I read too much to do so.
waltonsays
I hate it when I realize that I *love* arguing some times and damn it… people just don’t appreciate that in some spheres.
I know the feeling. That’s what first drew me here, after all.
The only afterlife any of us have is the memories in the minds of those we have touched and the good or bad we have done in the world. Christopher Hitchens, you have touched many people, far more people than you know, and your good works have given you as close to immortality as any sentient being could wish.
sorry, to clarify: weibo is not a specific website like Twitter is, but the Chinese calque of the English word “micro-blog”. So China is trying to regulate all domestic microblogging services, while presumably blocking foreign ones, though the blocking is on and off, and circumventable by the technically savvy.
@Giliell, more well wishes and digital soup headed your way.
Oh, and if you thought the Ohio woman who put up a white only sign on duplex pool was bad for justifying it by claiming black women’s hair products would cause problems, she’s apparently doubled down.
Now, not only is it her right to authorize who among her tenants can use the pool based on race, the sign is hunky dorey because it’s “historical” (an old sign from the 30s in Alabama). Plus she has to “stand up for her white rights.”
Algernonsays
aken literally seems to be more of a hope that the deceased doesn’t become a zombie
LOL! I like this.
Next time I start to say RIP I think I will say “I miss you but now that you’re dead I sure don’t want to see you again”
Gyaaa. Killing time in the Natural History museum. Adorable little girl and parents are in the dinosaur room. Mum tells her daughter “dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time. Creationists suck.
janinesays
Now, not only is it her right to authorize who among her tenants can use the pool based on race, the sign is hunky dorey because it’s “historical” (an old sign from the 30s in Alabama). Plus she has to “stand up for her white rights.”
I have ancestors from my maternal grandfather’s side of the family who owned a plantation in Tennessee. (That land now houses a prison and some of my distant southern relatives have worked there as prison guards. It is like something from a TC Boyle novel.) If I were to find shackles and a whip that came from that plantation and a descendant of the people my ancestors held in bondage, chained and whipped that person; could I make the claim that I am being historical?
carliesays
Fuuuuuuck. That is the kind of time when I blatantly, shamelessly use my children to be passive-aggressive, and do things like walk up to those people and really loudly say to mine “Of course, dinosaurs lived several hundred million years before people, which we know thanks to several different types of evidence. Don’t be silly honey, the Flintstones is just a funny tv show!”
chigau (違う)says
I wonder if that White Only landlady takes her tenants’ Black money.
my google-fu is failing me: I seem to remember that Julian Assange admitted to having sex with one of the two women while she was asleep, while claiming this was no rape, which of course is wrong. But does anyone with better google-fu actually know if he officially admitted that?
I only found some Swedish internet discussion that claimed that he had admitted it, but this was contradicted by others that he didn’t say anything on the matter.
I’m asking because if such a statement can be found, the issue would be clear-cut. If he didn’t say anything I still think from all these other pieces of evidence it can be argued that enthusiastic consent did not occur. But if he indeed admitted it, this alone would be enough to have a case.
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottlesays
Speaking of Twitter. Did you know that God is Not Great is offensive, but ReasonsToBeatYourGirlfriend is Hi-larious? Twitter thinks so!
If I were to find shackles and a whip that came from that plantation and a descendant of the people my ancestors held in bondage, chained and whipped that person; could I make the claim that I am being historical?
Apparently so!
I am amazed how easily people like this can reconcile “I’m not racist” with needing to “stand up for white rights.”
Another mormon ponzi scheme wilts when revealed as a scam.
Excerpt:
“Wendell Jacobson and Allen Jacobson both belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and appear to have used their membership and the connections arising there … to find and obtain the trust of prospective investors,” the SEC says in its complaint.
On another subject: I’ve been arguing with some ex-mormons who left mormonism only to become ensnared in some form or other of Christianity. These persons, who have a questionable grasp of logic, are using the occasion of Christopher Hitchens’s death to postulate that all of us hero-worshipping atheists would abandon our atheism if Hitchens told us to do so.
From a New York Times article:
Mr. Hitchens discussed the possibility of a deathbed conversion, insisting that the odds were slim that he would admit the existence of God.
“The entity making such a remark might be a raving, terrified person whose cancer has spread to the brain,” he told The Atlantic in August 2010. “I can’t guarantee that such an entity wouldn’t make such a ridiculous remark, but no one recognizable as myself would ever make such a remark.”
Christians are insisting that their argument about Hitchens possibly swaying his followers to become believers is “serious!”
I’m coming back to the haven that is Pharyngula and staying here. Even if dolts postulate Hitchens leading deluded atheists unto Christ, someone will hammer that nonsense mercilessly.
Thanks, Cicely! I got six more made last night. :)
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottlesays
A woman’s purpose in heaven is solely to birth endless babies to populate the worlds created by their husbands.
TAKE ME TO HELL. PLEASE!!!!!
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
I haven’t read much of Hitchens’ stuff, but what I have read, I like. He will be missed. And – with regards to himself – he’s not in pain anymore. I don’t know how much he suffered towards the end, but he’s not anymore. Perhaps that’s a comfort to some.
WRT to the discussion of non-religious things to say when someone dies, I’ve always liked what a relative arranged for his own tombstone to say: “The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne.” (yes, that’s how it’s spelled – hooray for Chaucer!)
A variant in Latin, Ars longa, vita brevis (“art is long, life is short”), and in Greek, Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή (“life is short, art is long”) I also like, but somewhat less so.
Dunno.
Feel better Giliell! I’m sending soup and bread.
Everyone, I’ll be heading from the Albany, NY area to the Rochester, NY area on Sunday and returning Tuesday. If people who are (1) along the route (aka I-90) or (2) in Rochester want to do something, let me know.
Gotta go sign the official paperwork for my new job! *dances*
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
We’ve got a mormon infestation in my neighborhood. They’re always trying to talk to people.
Twice now I’ve been going to the store to buy smokes, eyes right infront of me, minding my own business, and these assholes have tried to talk to me.
All done up in their identical business suits (yeah, that’s a great way to earn my trust. *snort*) strolling around the neighborhood trying to bother people.
I’m lucky, I wield THE POWER OF INFINITE RUDENESS, but most people are too nice to tell these patsies to fuck off, and that is what they’re banking on. High pressure sales tactics for the afterlife.
Sometimes, the juvenile side of me is really tempted to go egg their church.
Loudsays
Hey all.
I just received a ‘Christmas card’ from the Salvation Army. I know they have some very questionable practices and I want to respond to them regarding my disagreement.
Does anyone know of a good resource for facts on their anti-gay stance etc.?
waltonsays
I am amazed how easily people like this can reconcile “I’m not racist” with needing to “stand up for white rights.”
Easy. They’re culturally programmed to say “I’m not racist”, because, in our society, openly admitting to being racist is considered bad form. Yet they are, in fact, racist. (Hence the entire phenomenon of “I’m not racist but…” And hence why even far-right nationalist parties usually deny that they are racist.)
John Moralessays
Loud, yeah: their own published materials.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Walton: I’ve always seen it more as ‘Racism is hating on another race for no reason. I have an actual reason for not letting black people into my pool, so I’m not racist!’.
Something along those lines, at least.
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottlesays
The Laughing Coyote –
One of my closest friends is a Jehovah’s Witness. She’s one of those Pollyanna sort of people – always friendly, rarely says anything bad about other people, etc.
But, this one time, I was talking about people who knock on doors to talk about god and mentioned the Jehovah’s Witnesses with the suits and backpacks, blah blah blah
She damn near ripped my head off saying: THOSE are MORMONS! We are NOT like THAT!
Which, is of course not true, since she herself does the knocking on doors thing, but I got a kick out of the fact that she was so offended by my mistaking one door-knocking cult for another. LOL
(For those that might be wondering – we became friends despite both of us knowing about our being on the complete opposite ends of the faith spectrum – because we’re both outsiders during the holiday season. They don’t celebrate and I don’t participate in public christmas activities. Both of these things have caused both of us some ostracizing in the past. She really does rock though and I love her to bits, despite the goddyness).
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Illuminata: I hear you. I have a circle of christian friends, used to do bible study with them. I told them all “I’m done with god and christianity, but I still like you well enough,” and they still invite me to get togethers and christmas parties and stuff.
I think for a lot of them, they really are convinced that all goodness ‘comes from God’. I also think some of them are starting to warm up to the idea that yes, humans are imperfect and selfish beings, but compassion, empathy, and ethics are still a ‘human’ thing.
I like to think that by being an active Godhater who’s still big on compassion and empathy, I might just be giving them some things to think about regarding faith.
OTOH, almost all of them are incredibly quick on the draw with the ol’ worn out ‘No TRUE christian’ thing. It’s very frustrating.
A woman’s purpose in heaven is solely to birth endless babies to populate the worlds created by their husbands.
TAKE ME TO HELL. PLEASE!!!!!
I think that all you have to do to make certain that Hell (a.k.a. Outer Darkness) is your destination is to reject the book of mormon no matter how much it makes your bosom burn.
Even with his vague platitudes about accepting those of other faiths and none, as a UK based atheist, this Priministerial endorsement of religion in government still worries me somewhat. Meaning no disrespect to all the North American Pharyngulites, this is more the kind of stuff you expect to hear about in the US, not from UK politicians.
I never could stand Cameron, and here is yet another reason why he should never have become PM.
Browniansays
I just stepped downstairs to pick up some coffee cream for my coworkers, and the convenience store owner, whom I’m pretty sure is a devout Christian (or perhaps an atheist) given his penchant for reading books about the bible, wished me a Happy Holidays while I simultaneously wished him a Merry Christmas.
He then hurried to wish me a Merry Christmas in response. He’s a very nice fellow; I hope he didn’t think I was correcting him about my beliefs—I was merely trying to sincerely wish him a joyful instance of the holiday I for some reason think he celebrates.
Awkward.
This accommodationism is hard. Next time I’ll just laugh in his face and shout him down, as we Gnus are known to do.
…most people are too nice to tell these patsies to fuck off, and that is what they’re banking on. High pressure sales tactics for the afterlife.
High pressure sales tactics in this life. That’s what makes mormon missionaries such good employees for Ponzi scheme companies and MLMs.
Dhorvath, OMsays
Hitch had a good run, the luxury of both exploring those things he desired and communicating his experiences to a wide audience. He was listened to, sought out even, for his opinions and delivery, and he made many impressions on both close and distant people. A life to celebrate. I think the three finger salute is sufficient, make mine rum ’cause that’s what I drink in December.
Today must be opposite day. I have local Utah/gay news that leaves me frustrated with GLSEN and the Utah Pride Center, and happy with a Utah County public school. WTF
To summarize:
1. Some students at a Willowcreek Middle School were given an assignment that was described as an advertisement about themselves that would be on display in the school.
The student in question decided he wanted to make his a coming out story.
2. The teacher giving the assignment approved the ad, but made sure he understood that it would be publicly displayed and that he wanted to come out to the school.
3. Ad was up.
4. Teachers or teacher’s aides overheard other students speaking negatively about the student and his sexual orientation and was concerned about future bullying.
5. Those students were called into administrator’s offices for anti-gay comments.
6. Administrators also talked to the student about their concerns, stressing the importance of being able to talk about problems with both school officials and his parents (who are, after all, his legal guardians)
7. Student told school officials he was not out to his parents, and was nervous about coming out to them. He did not express any reservations that he would be in danger if he came out, based on all reports.
8. He agreed that the school could bring their concerns about anti-gay bullying from other students to the parents, but requested he not be present at the meeting.
9. Administrators apparently outed him to his parents to explain their concerns about other students’ behavior, but there’s no reporting on how the meeting went specifically.
10. A Facebook page was created by apparent supporters that contained much misinformation, including an allegation that the student was suspended for coming out, which is untrue.
11. News organizations and LGBTQ advocates jumped all over the story as a case of an evil school district outing a student to their parents; some coverage omitted that the student came out publicly altogether. Bad, bad reporting.
12. Student’s parents kept him home from school this week, without comment.
Gregory, so, David Cameron is an advocate of antidisestablishmentarianism?
(Sorry, could not resist)
Rey Foxsays
Now, not only is it her right to authorize who among her tenants can use the pool based on race, the sign is hunky dorey because it’s “historical” (an old sign from the 30s in Alabama).
“It belongs in a museum!”
“So do you!”
waltonsays
@Gregory: Cameron’s an idiot, and the whole speech was meaningless silly pablum aimed at pandering to the Daily Mail and the Lord Carey “OMG Christians are so persecuted!!!” brigade.
(Of course it’s true in the most literal sense that the UK is a “Christian country” – that is, legally and constitutionally the UK is a Christian monarchy in which the monarch is crowned and anointed by the Archbishop of Canterbury and swears to uphold the privileges of the Church, and in which there are two established official churches, the Church of England and the Church of Scotland. But this doesn’t seem to be what DC meant, and it’s hardly a novel or interesting observation; especially as, in practice, the UK is one of the more secular countries in the world, church attendance rates are low and most people don’t really give a damn about religion.)
In a speech in Oxford on the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, the prime minister called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain’s “moral collapse”… he staunchly defended the role of religion in politics and said the Bible in particular was crucial to British values.
What exactly are “traditional Christian values”? There are thousands of sects of Christianity in the world, and thousands of diverse and contradictory interpretations of “Christian values”; I doubt that, say, Desmond Tutu and Fred Phelps share many identifiable “values” in common. And no particular religion has a monopoly on the social values to which he alludes; nor is there any evidence on which to found the claim that more-religious societies are any happier, more prosperous or more stable than less-religious ones. (I, for one, would rather live in Denmark than in Alabama, say.)
And it’s just nonsense to pretend that Britain has suffered a “moral collapse” as a result of the decline of orthodox Christianity. In the last fifty years, from where I’ve sitting, we’ve made some important moral *advances*; LGBT rights, abolition of the death penalty, access to therapeutic abortion, the end of legal “corporal punishment” (read “beating kids”) in schools, and so on.* I don’t see any obvious respect in which the decline of organized religion has demonstrably made Britain a worse place to live. It’s just a silly meaningless claim.
(*Of course plenty of new abuses have taken their place – like the appalling way the British state treats immigrants and asylum-seekers, something which, incidentally, DC has done precisely nothing to reform since taking office a year-and-a-half ago. But that has no obvious relationship to the decline of organized religion.)
Gregory Greenwoodsays
John Morales @ 66;
Gregory, so, David Cameron is an advocate of antidisestablishmentarianism?
I know, it doesn’t sound like a real word, does it?
It is one of the constitutional oddities of the UK that, while we have an established church, it is generally accepted that, in this day and age, it should keep its nose out of politics. Indeed, the actual governance of Britain has been really rather secular for quite some time, and it is disturbing that first Baroness Warsi and now Cameron have publically expressed a desire on the part of the Conservative party to shoe-horn religion back into the political process, especially when their ‘reasoning’ as to why this is such a spiffing idea is so fuzzy and frankly patronising.
I do not recognise the supposedly essential importance of religion to contemporary British cultural identity, and the claim that it informs morality is, as we all know, bunkum of the first water. And as for all Cameron’s blather about christianity rendering the UK more accepting of those of other faiths and none, well, it leads me to wonder whether he has recently suffered a severe head trauma. Since when has christianity acted as a catalyst for religious tolerance and freedom of conscience? History would seem to be against the PM on this.
Walton, I love the way christians (especially christian politicians) have been pointing to “moral collapse” for decades. I always thought of “collapse” as something that happened suddenly. Why is this collapse taking so damned long? I wish the moral collapse would hurry up and conclude. I’m sick of hearing about it.
Gregory Greenwoodsays
Walton @ 68;
Cameron’s an idiot…
Agreed.
…and the whole speech was meaningless silly pablum aimed at pandering to the Daily Mail and the Lord Carey “OMG Christians are so persecuted!!!” brigade.
Here’s hoping that is all it is.
And it’s just nonsense to pretend that Britain has suffered a “moral collapse” as a result of the decline of orthodox Christianity. In the last fifty years, from where I’ve sitting, we’ve made some important moral *advances*; LGBT rights, abolition of the death penalty, access to therapeutic abortion, the end of legal “corporal punishment” (read “beating kids”) in schools, and so on.* I don’t see any obvious respect in which the decline of organized religion has demonstrably made Britain a worse place to live. It’s just a silly meaningless claim.
To the nasty bigots that infest elements of the CoE, those advances you mention are the ‘moral collapse’ they are so incensed by. The fact that Cameron seems to be cosying up to such people nauseates me.
Katherine – “Mum tells her daughter “dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time. Creationists suck.
Odd that the mom has such ;-)
+++++++++++++++++++++
slignot, I saw that article and a couple of others about it and I Googled her address. (I was trying to find out if she was registered R or D, apparently she’s not registered to vote. I was motivated from a comment discussion on Raw Story about whether she was a republican or not.) And from Google Earth, it sure doesn’t look like the pool is her private pool. She keeps digging herself deep and deeper with the Ohio CRC.
When you’re at the bottom of the (gene) pool? Stop digging;-)
Chigau – “I wonder if that White Only landlady takes her tenants’ Black money.”
Well, the money’s green, and the tenant is apparently white. He was audacious enough to have a mixed race daughter.
+++++++++++++++++++++
I had a good day/bad day kinda day.
Good: I spent an hour polishing and buffing the vintage (read ‘used’) Sabian ride cymabal I bought for my boss and she loved it. It completes her … drum kit.
Bad: I indulged myself last night and bought Twizzlers and Skittles. Today I had my first recurrence of TMJ … since the last time I ate Twizzlers and Skittles. I think I see a pattern here.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dhorvath, OMsays
Sailor,
I love Skittles, but they take me three days to recover from. I relate to your bad.
We’ve got a mormon infestation in my neighborhood. They’re always trying to talk to people.
I ran into two mormon missionaries some months ago and took the chance to learn more about their religion. Needless to say, I did not find their argument very convincing.
I met exactly one mormon that I’d consider a reasonable thinker. The others seemed nice, but a bit crazy. They take a very literal view of scripture, with the usual absurd results.
Arrgh! My “Odd that the mom has such ;-)” was meant to be “Odd that the mom has such diametrically opposed view.”
++++++++++++++
Walton, thank you for your clarification. I did not know about the Church Of Scotland being included.
@Rey Fox, I think “fear or sex in general” is also a traditional Christian value. Maybe as an extension of the fear or happiness from anything material/physical; a sort of puritanical urge to hate any earthly joy.
Afterlife or not, RIP Hitchens. I hope his was a peaceful, painless death.
———————————
Mom is still not feeling very well, so I’ll be hauling ass the next two days doing all the holiday shopping. Fortunately I already have some idea of what I’ll be getting for people, so that just leaves worrying about being able to take care of Mom’s list. I’ll probably have J drop me off at the mall or Best Buy after our date on Sunday.
———————————————
Damn stuffy nose won’t go away. I swear, tomorrow afternoon I am having curry soup for lunch just to get some relief.
waltonsays
Walton, thank you for your clarification. I did not know about the Church Of Scotland being included.
It’s complicated.
In England, the established church is the Church of England. The C of E has a range of special privileges: it is the Archbishop of Canterbury who performs the coronation ceremony and presides at royal weddings and funerals, for instance, and C of E bishops and archbishops (the “Lords Spiritual”) sit by automatic right in the House of Lords. The Queen is the “Supreme Governor” of the Church of England, and officially appoints Anglican bishops. (The Prime Minister has the power to advise the Queen on the appointment of bishops. In most cases the PM accepts the recommendation of the nominating committee, but there were a couple of instances under Margaret Thatcher where she rejected nominees who she saw as too left-wing; Lord Carey was the Church’s second choice for Archbishop of Canterbury, for example.) Because of its special association with the monarchy, the C of E is often, wrongly, assumed to be the established church of the whole UK. In fact, it is only the established church of England, not anywhere else.
In Scotland, the established church is the Church of Scotland. It has much less state interference than the C of E, and doesn’t have bishops at all, being a Presbyterian church. The monarch has only a very limited role, but she does appoint a “Lord High Commissioner” (usually a member of the royal family) to attend the Church of Scotland’s annual general assembly.
In Wales, there is no longer an established church at all. The Church of England used to be the established church there, but it was disestablished in 1920. (The ecclesiastical province of Wales in the Church of England was then hived off into a separate church called the “Church in Wales”.) Similarly, Northern Ireland has no established church any more: the (Anglican) Church of Ireland was the established church of the whole of Ireland under British rule until the nineteenth century, but this was an unpopular position (since the vast majority of Ireland is Catholic), and the Church of Ireland was disestablished in 1871.
So… in total, the UK has two established churches. But neither of them have any official status in Wales or Northern Ireland, neither of which has an established church.
The monarch’s coronation oath also includes an explicit promise to uphold the privileges of the Church of England, although it says nothing specific about the Church of Scotland:
Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?
Dhorvath, thanks. Not sure what your recovery is from, but today my jaws don’t meet. And we had our lab Holiday luncheon today at a fancy Uni buffet. I pretty much had to limit myself to soft foods and swallowing salads whole. And Death By Chocolate chocolate cake.
There wasn’t enough chocolate. I still managed to overly stuff myself. And that was before I knew my boss was picking up the tab. She paid more for lunch for us than I paid for her (most excellent) cymbal.
We don’t exchange gifts in my lab, I’m not sure what the other labs do. The staff in the Opt School apparently have a ‘Secret Santa’ thing, but it would be odd for the labs to do. We have people from all around the world working in and heading our labs.
I like my Uni, I like my school, I like my job doing research. I was especially reminded of this at lunch. I was surrounded by people of all faiths, colors, creeds … just having lunch in the same room. And not one person said “where’s my iced tea motherfucker”. … ;-) (Do I need to add a FY Bill O’Reilly, or is that a part of saying grace?)
Here’s a Moment of Mormon Madness brought to you by the FLDS, Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints.
As we all know, their Prophet (or profit) Warren Jeffs was given some Texas-sized jail time for raping 12 and 15 year old girls in the name of his brand of sacred marriage.
Now that Warren is in jail and doesn’t get to rape little girls, he thinks it behooves all his followers to be more ascetic as well.
Excerpts from an article about the restrictive rules flowing hot and heavy from Warren’s Jail cell:
…Several former FLDS members say the new requirements implemented by leaders loyal to Jeffs reach deep into followers’ personal lives: Men are barred from having sex with their wives, families are required to get rid of their children’s toys, girls under 18 are no longer to hold jobs or have cellphones.
Starting this year, members have been required to hand over all their possessions to leadership, and are given back only what the bishop deems necessary, said Willie Jessop, former church spokesman and current supporter of a rival sect prophet.
Bikes, trampolines and all-terrain vehicles, once-common sights in the FLDS home base of Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, can be seen for sale on the side of the highway. Those requirements had never been a part of FLDS culture, Jessop said, though, unknown to the majority of members, the elite group that Jeffs drew to the Yearning for Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Texas, was already following them.
…After members sign over their assets, he [Jessop] said, they’re required to undergo extensive interviews to determine if they are worthy of FLDS membership. If they are found to be unworthy, members can be excommunicated from the community with little more than the shirt on their backs, he said. Among the requirements is ignorance of Jeffs’ conviction for sexually assaulting girls…
…with a new reported deadline of Dec. 31 to prove faithfulness and give $5,000 or be excommunicated, aid workers are concerned that a large number of people with very little to their names could soon be looking for help.
waltonsays
Though the Moderator of the General Assembly, the highest official of the Church of Scotland, does have a role at coronations: he or she* presents the monarch with a Bible, saying “Here is wisdom, this is the royal law, these are the lively Oracles of God.” I’m not entirely sure why.
(*The Church of Scotland, unlike the Church of England, has twice been headed by a woman.**)
(**By contrast, making women bishops is still a very controversial issue in the C of E, since the “Anglo-Catholic” wing tends to be opposed to women’s ordination; though this is likely to change over time, as more and more of the hardline conservative Anglo-Catholics accept the Pope’s recent offer in Anglicanorum Coetibus and become actual Catholics. But I digress.)
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Thanks to my newfound riches (relatively anyway) I was able to afford a root canal for my long-suffering tooth. Now I’m chilling at home, high on vicodin, and waiting for the tingles in my cheeck to turn into actual sensation. Still drooling a little bit.
The Horde is amazing.
waltonsays
Thanks to my newfound riches (relatively anyway) I was able to afford a root canal for my long-suffering tooth.
Well, I’m glad you were finally able to get the dental treatment you needed. Though it doesn’t exactly sound like much fun. :-(
Walton, thank you for the info, I really do appreciate it. Tho I have to say I like the American oath of office swearing in better:
Prez: I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
++++++++++++++
Military: “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
+++++++++++++
Of course it’s ‘more honored in the breach than the observance’ ;-)
waltonsays
Sailor: Well, the British monarch does swear to govern the people in accordance with “their laws and customs”, which is akin to the US President’s oath to uphold the Constitution.
The full text of the royal coronation oath as laid down in the Coronation Oaths Act 1688 is as follows. (Although the oath has been slightly modified over the years to reflect the monarch’s rule over other realms, so the version the Queen took at her coronation is not identical to this one.)
The Arch-Bishop or Bishop shall say,
Will You solemnely Promise and Sweare to Governe the People of this Kingdome of England and the Dominions thereto belonging according to the Statutes in Parlyament Agreed on and the Laws and Customs of the same?
The King and Queene shall say,
I solemnly Promise soe to doe.
Arch Bishop or Bishop,
Will You to Your power cause Law and Justice in Mercy to be Executed in all Your Judgements.
King and Queene,I will.
Arch Bishop or Bishop.
Will You to the utmost of Your power Maintaine the Laws of God the true Profession of the Gospell and the Protestant Reformed Religion Established by Law? And will You Preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of this Realme and to the Churches committed to their Charge all such Rights and Priviledges as by Law doe or shall appertaine unto them or any of them.
King and Queene.
All this I Promise to doe.
After this the King and Queene laying His and Her Hand upon the Holy Gospells, shall say,
King and Queene
The things which I have here before promised I will performe and Keepe Soe help me God.
Then the King and Queene shall kisse the Booke.
Members of Parliament and other officeholders take an oath of allegiance to the Queen on their appointment, which runs as follows:
I, [name], do swear [or affirm] that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. [So help me God.]
I also quite like the oath taken by judges:
I, [name], do swear [or affirm] that I will well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady Queen Elizabeth in the office of [title of office], and I will do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of this realm, without fear or favour, affection or ill will. [So help me God.]
SallyStrange, You have my most deepest sympathies. root canals are supposed to be painless, (“it’s dead Jim”), but fucking expensive as hell. And uncomfortable to the nth degree.
TMI warning:
I haz a problem with opiates because they make me constipated. And my hemorrhoids are a PITA. Catch 22, when I had a thrombectomy the only drugs to kill the ginarmous pain were opiates. AAAArrrrgggh.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
I haz a problem with opiates because they make me constipated.
That’s normal. In the 18th and 19th centuries, doctors attached to armies normally carried a ball of opium with them. If a soldier complained of loose bowels, they were given a chunk of opium to chew and swallow (oddly, the military history books are rather vague about the doses) to tighten up the stool. I have the same reaction to opiates (not codeine (when I was in the Army, they gave me some codeine and I woke up the next day in a bed in a different part of the hospital — still have no idea what my reaction was, but they added a red tag to my dogs)).
feuriosays
This is the only thing which has brightened up my day about it…
‘Global Secular Humanist Movement’ wrote on facebook:
“I heard Christopher Hitchens had a deathbed conversion. He asked for a priest and converted him to atheism.”
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
It was mostly painless. But now that the novocaine is wearing off (like literally just now) there’s definite soreness in my jaw.
I could’ve done it on my birthday but I didn’t want to spend my birthday all stoned and sore.
I should tell you about my dentist. He’s awesome. He kinda looks like Kal Penn (Kumar in Harold and Kumar). He’s sarcastic, blunt, and direct. No guilt trips, no fake comfort. “This is gonna hurt. Okay, here we go. Painful pinch on the roof of your mouth! Sorry. Okay, done.” My neighbor down the hall says she still has nightmares about the time when he braced his knee on her shoulder to pull out a tooth.
I like him.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
Sally:
When I had my one-and-a-half teeth pulled (one was a failed root canal (make sure you get the post and crown put on or the tooth will crumble)), my dentist was also very realistic. And was willing to swear when it turned out the root was firmly attached to the maxilla. I appreciated his honesty.
And you have my sympathy.
carliesays
Random amusement of the day:
Watching a Charlie Brown show in which Lucy decides to take away Linus’ blanket because Grandma is coming and won’t like it. I said “But I bet Grandma won’t care and will say it’s fine to have a blanket.” Child replies “Maybe, but all we’ll hear her say is ‘waa-wa-wa-waaa'”.
Too true.
carliesays
SallyStrange, congrats on the tooth removal! Good luck with the healing.
Sally, I feel your pain. The novocaine or whatever is wearing off for me. I broke a tooth or the filling or something broke and I needed a new one. Turns out there wasn’t enough tooth left for a filling do I have a crown. Soup for supper, I ended up wearing most of it cause of the lack of feeling. Friday at the dentist, no supper and no beer. Makes work look fun.
My dentist as a warped sense of humor. She looked at my mouth and said her daughter’s tuition is paid for now.
Can anyone explain what’s going on with SC and whatsisname ξ? I have been checking in on that thread periodically, but can’t really follow it. Too spaced.
David Marjanovićsays
*catches up*
*hugs Classical Cipher and Giliell for opposite reasons*
[sterile Internet hugs do have their advantages!]
*chocolate, too*
*reads on*
*hugs Ogvorbis and Bill Dauphin & wife for opposite reasons*
*chocolate, too*
*hugs and chocolate for Dhorvath and Ing*
*…*
*grabs a random onion girl off the street and hugs her just for completeness*
The only way I could ever justify not voting for the Democrat is if I fully accepted the Leninist proposition that “heightening the contradictions” of capitalism is necessary to provoke revolution. I have not seen sufficient evidence for that argument, and I’m not willing to deliberately provoke greater suffering on a mere hunch.
Is that the “argument” I used to see a lot between 2000 and 2004 when some people claimed “it must get worse before it can get better, we need to hit rock bottom before people will Wake Up™”? I never bought that, because it can get a lot worse – there may actually be a bottom, but I can’t see it from here.
There is no such thing as “trumping”. Everything is granular. Reality is granular.
As long as this stays as vague as it is, I agree.
You got to ignore the gross violations of ethics for the greater good […] after all.
Not the greater good – the lesser evil.
You just can’t get out of the two-party system before next November.
Oh, and, you can’t get rid of the Electoral College that quickly either. Do you live in a swing state? If not, vote for Mickey Mouse, or don’t, it can’t change anything, you effectively don’t have a right to vote for president. *calming down after onset of rage attack* And Mickey Mouse would likely make a better president anyway. Personally, I’d cast a de-facto protest vote for the Greens or something if I could vote in a safe state.
Of course some states are superficially less malign than others; I don’t know of many people who would deny that Denmark is a nicer place to live than Somalia, say.
(Bad example. Most of Somalia is the absence of a state.)
Substitute “human” for “man”, of course. (I don’t speak Russian, but I suspect this sexist language probably crept in with the English translation, rather than Tolstoy’s original writing.)
You’re right. (Except that, like in Latin, Greek and German, the word for “human” is grammatically masculine. I suppose this goes all the way back to the times when Proto-Indo-European had two genders, animate and inanimate.)
There’s now a serious move among Republicans to implement a flat tax.
o_O
O_o
…As I just said: there may actually be a bottom, but I can’t see it from here.
The one exception is a town that also has a Working Families Party registrar. The WFP uses a strategy that might be of interest to some: They’re to the left of the Democrats (although by no means truly radical), and they mostly cross-endorse selected liberal Democrats (only in rare, targeted races do they run a “third party” candidate of their own). In this way they (a) pull the Dems to the left, (b) give frustrated liberals a place to put their vote (i.e., by voting for the Democratic candidate on the WFP ballot line) without actually damaging the best viable candidate, and (c) build their own membership and electoral record (including qualifying for registrar seats), against a time when they will have the “throw weight” to field truly competitive alternative candidates.
That’s awesome!
Personally, I favor a strong two party system (that’s another argument for another time)
I’m very interested in this, because I’ve never encountered arguments for a two-party system. But, uh, it’s not urgent. :-S I should be working hard right now.
Knock on doors and talk to strangers just like the big parties do around election time.
(This gives me a culture shock every time again. Over here, only Jehovah’s Witlesses knock on strangers’ doors. Oh, wait, these folks do, too (the use of “boys” in the article is a lie).
Your party vote is the more important baseline vote, determining the proportionate share of seats in parliament (on a state by state basis), but half of those seats are distributed to candidates competing in districts, determined by your constituency vote. This is meant to ensure that every district has a MP representing them, because otherwise the statewide lists could feature candidates only from certain areas. In some cases, NOT voting for a party can actually lead to more seats for it in parliament….
Huh. I’ll keep that in mind if the recent proposal to introduce constituency votes in Austria ever goes anywhere. (Guess which party the proposal came from!)
For that matter, much of what Aristotle, Plato, Hegel and Nietzsche wrote is still relevant, and continues to be studied in faculties of philosophy.
Except for Hegel, I don’t disagree, but the latter isn’t evidence of the former! :-)
(Don’t mistake political theory or philosophy for an empirical science. In medicine or physics, say, it may very well be true that the objective is to discover an objective external reality, and that each generation builds on the knowledge of the past, so that the theories of fifty or a hundred years ago are simply out of date in light of present knowledge. But to think that the same must be the case in political thought, or that the political writings of a hundred or a thousand years ago are “outdated” in the same way as the medical textbooks of the same era would be “outdated”, is to commit a category error and to misunderstand the nature of philosophy as an intellectual endeavour.)
Wait, wait, wait. Which goals to choose isn’t science, but how to reach them most definitely is. It’s dreadfully empirical; hundreds of millions of people have died in such experiments. Political thought that ignores such empirical results is incredibly stupid and evil.
*goes and hugs her dogdog*
*blink*
~:-| You’re a dog person? That’s quite a surprise.
The joke (sadly there’s truth to it) goes that only “unimportant” European nations such as the Netherlands or Sweden care about Taiwan)
Similarly, it’s completely unsurprising that it’s Iceland which has now recognized Palestine. I mean, it’s surprising anyone has done it, but now that someone has done it, it’s not at all surprising that it’s Iceland, a place with so few people they can get away with not having surnames.
*lightbulb*
You been Officially Groped, too?
I’ve been voting WFP ever since I moved to a place where it’s possible; additionally, the way New York counts votes, the percentage of a candidate’s vote that came from the WFP is counted so that they know how liberal their support is. I count that as win-win.
Is it time to poke Obama again and remind him just who put him in office (if he still cares by now)? I don’t know if he ever got my other email, but I’ll gladly pester him again.
Do it.
(I seem to be developing eccentric tendencies. Among other things, I have grown a long and unkempt beard, occasionally wander around Cambridge muttering to myself, eat dry granola for breakfast, write terrible poetry, and have, at last count, fifteen empty Diet Mountain Dew bottles standing on my desk and another ten or so in the recycle bin.)
Come on. You live alone. Except for muttering to yourself and writing poetry, that’s all normal.
Is your beard long enough to actually comb it?
But in the 2000s, the ex-Communist party merged with a protest party, establishing a presence in the entire country,
That protest party split off from the Social Democrats who had become too little social for some people’s tastes.
and the Greens, and to a lesser extent the Liberals, made headway in the east, resulting in a truly national five-party system, although regional differences still exist of course.
Case in point: there’s a village in Bavaria where one person voted for the Social Democrats and everyone else voted conservative. TV comedians walked around the place trying to find the socialist, asking people questions like “are you a working mass?”. They never found him or her.
and I heard in the profile that he’d also supported the War of Thatcher’s Face in 1982
X-)
He was also a notorious a-tea-ist.
:-D
“When Voltaire was dying the priest came and said ‘you should renounce the devil,’ and he responded ‘This is no time to be making enemies.’”
:-D
Time zones operate between northern an southern hemispheres?
No.
Why can’t even semi-pro news companies spell ‘atheist’? I mean, I know it is Faux News, but still, don’t they have fucking spelcheck?
X-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
craniofacial integrity
Hereby stolen. :-)
I kind of miss pharyngula a little.
We’ve been missing you!!!
hukou system
What’s that?
I’m not sure how widespread relying on thugs is, but that definitely does not sound like a sound long-term strategy.
Speaking of that, the rebel army of Syria keeps growing, and the protests in Homs keep growing as well. The determination of these people is incredible.
Or do you think the phrase implies a belief in the afterlife?
Definitely.
anyone remember the spectacular success of the Pirate Party at last time’s Berlin elections? And the fact that they seemed to have a misogyny problem, what with only 1 out of 15 elected MPs being female? Now the Berlin state party org hired a female secretary general, but she turns out to be a major supporter of esoteric woo.
…which just so happens to fit a misogynistic stereotype! Is it paranoid to wonder if the male pirates chose her for this reason?
her book “You have the power over yourself”
…which, in German, sounds a lot like “may the Force be with you”.
Bei der Krankheit Aids steht die Bereitschaft zur Hingabe an das ganze Leben, einschließlich seiner dunklen Seiten, im Vordergrund. Zu integrierende Lernaufgaben sind meist die Fähigkeit, sich auf einen Menschen wirklich einzulassen, oder Verbindlichkeit mit all ihren Konsequenzen in Beziehungen zu leben. Gefordert ist die Integration der Urprinzipien Pluto und Neptun.
Consider my flabber gasted.
“In the illness of AIDS, the readiness to submit oneself to the entirety of life, including its dark sides [of the Force], is primary. Usually, the capability to really get in touch with a person or”
BZZZT! Wrong. Verbindlichkeit, in isolation like this, doesn’t mean anything. I can’t translate meaning that isn’t there.
*sigh* OK, I’ll take a guess. “to live ?responsibility? with all their (!) consequences in relationships, are learning tasks which are to be integrated. What is demanded is the integration of the primordial principles Pluto and Neptune.”
Astrological fuckwit who deliberately refuses to try to express herself clearly. Pluto and Neptune are objects, not primordial principles, fuckwit. You can fucking touch them (…if you get there… and can stand the cold, which you can’t).
something like “skinwriting is not a miracle” or “there is no god”
Chinese government about to require users of weibo […] to register their real names…
The Mao/Deng-dynasty emperors are scared shitless, I tell you. Shitless.
Fuuuuuuck. That is the kind of time when I blatantly, shamelessly use my children to be passive-aggressive, and do things like walk up to those people and really loudly say to mine “Of course, dinosaurs lived several hundred million years before people, which we know thanks to several different types of evidence. Don’t be silly honey, the Flintstones is just a funny tv show!”
*hug* ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
(…”Several hundred million years” is a bit much, though. The oldest ones are 230 million years old.)
I wonder if that White Only landlady takes her tenants’ Black money.
I suppose money isn’t Black, it’s green.
Oletne pecunia? Oletne?
Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή
Now I feel silly. I had seriously assumed the Latin version was original.
David Cameron declaring that the UK is a christian nation and claiming that religion has a place in British politics.
Away with him. Unfit for office.
</wishful thinking>
“It belongs in a museum!”
“So do you!”
*clenched-tentacle salute*
“I heard Christopher Hitchens had a deathbed conversion. He asked for a priest and converted him to atheism.”
in hindsight my anger may have made me less rational than usual last night. Ultimately a plus as it is a motivation to do more activism and civil involvement.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
*blink*
~:-| You’re a dog person? That’s quite a surprise.
I used to be a cat person. I’m very much a dog person now. Cos I understand them. They are very transparent :)
Also *hug hug hug*
An independent report into child sex abuse in Dutch Catholic institutions in the Netherlands has identified tens of thousands of alleged victims and 800 alleged perpetrators.
Tens of thousands of minors were exposed to “mild, severe or very severe sexual behaviour” by clergy or lay workers in the Dutch Catholic Church over a 65-year period between 1945 and 2010, the commission said in its final report.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
David:
Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή
Now I feel silly. I had seriously assumed the Latin version was original
AFAIK, the original (in Greek) comes from Hippocrates.
The full quotation is Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή, ὁ δὲ καιρὸς ὀξύς, ἡ δὲ πεῖρα σφαλερή, ἡ δὲ κρίσις χαλεπή, which was then translated into Latin (in the process flipping the first two phrases) as Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.
Or, in modern English: Art [i.e. craft, learning] is long, life is short, opportunity is fleeting, experiment is dangerous, judgement is difficult (that’s for the Latin – in the Greek, life is short comes first).
Chaucer used a variant of the opening couplet in Parlement of Foules.
*cough*
Sorry.
*goes to find somewhere else to be a language nerd*
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Yay for cephalopod crafts! I just found out my niece is expecting baby #2, so I bought this octopus pattern and will work it up in bright purple yarn for New Baby and bright orange yarn for Existing Greatniece Toddler. (I think those tentacles are destined to be gummed and gnawed on.)
I really covet the same seller’s cuttlefish pattern.
There are registers kept in all municipalities of people “belonging” to that area. Even if you move to a distant city, you may still be registered on the original roll.
This can cause all manner of problems (usually for migrant workers) as the non-hukou people are in a permanent state of being outsiders. This affects their right to permanent settlement in a place of their choosing (even after decades of work there), but also receiving medical services and education etc on par with the hukou residents of that city. The more progressive cities have made more equitous changes to the system, yet it is still far easier for a person with a university education to obtain these rights. In Shenzhen, the non-hukou outnumber the hukou by a factor of about four to one.
There are some (small) advantages to hukou in your original village or town, in that you have an entitlement to land.
Which brings me back to …
@ pelamun
It is not that the iniquitous land grabs I have described are completely universal, they are not. It is very widespread though.
I have only encountered it once, but have heard of it often. I had supper with a developer once and was surprised when we where introduced to all manner of police officers. A huge group had been invited out for supper too. I discovered later that they where guests of the developer. They had helped to clear a site that was going to be developed. Thankfully we did not get that job. It appears that many of the “police” are not real officers, but more a type of deputy. These are often local toughs without work, who want to sell their brawn or are pushed into service by their parents (their parents may give bribes to get them the jobs). They are not as restrained as the regular officers.
I do not understand how any of this can be legal. It appears more to be a grey and immoral area where authorities turn a blind eye and where the locals, lacking any proper form of representation get strong armed into selling their land and leaving for a pittance. There certainly is a lot of incentive for the authorities to let it slide. “Development” is the catchphrase, the new “pig iron”. Urbanisation is promoted on the highest levels and some will be carried into that bright new future bodily. (I am reminded of robber barons and their “knights”. They are essentially stealing the peoples’ land for a token recompense.)
I do get to see quite a few “nails” in my job. These are people who flat out refuse to sell (sometimes it is not even about holding out for more money). Like many, I just design around them and hope for some settlement in the future. Here the balance of power is quite the opposite. Obviously this occurs more in the big cities and towns than in the rural areas I described above.
What usually happens is that the client is responsible for compensating the people in the area to be developed by providing brand new housing, schools, parks and often further compensation (such as a small shop in the complex). This is quite a significant part of any design and a huge cost for the developer. This is the right way to do it though and the responsibility that those crooks are trying to avoid (on top of swiping the land).
waltonsays
Case in point: there’s a village in Bavaria where one person voted for the Social Democrats and everyone else voted conservative. TV comedians walked around the place trying to find the socialist, asking people questions like “are you a working mass?”. They never found him or her.
Here is an example of a nail house in Chongqing. Link.
(Don’t get me started on Chongqing, the corruption in that city was (is!) so incredibly rife that it boggles the mind.)
Don’t worry, none of my nails look anything like this. More like clusters of farmers’ houses on land marked “future green”. As negotiations can take years, the development can proceed without it going crazy as in this example. In a way, nails are healthy in that they generally indicate that rights are being respected. (I say generally, because I have heard of a developer going behind everyone’s back, trying to pressure a nail with a gang of thugs. The nail won that round.)
@ starstuff (& language boffins)
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
Seize the day, trusting as little as possible to the next.
Does anyone know a variation of this that goes something like: “seize the day, for tomorrow we shall be dead.” What would that be in Latin?
waltonsays
As far as I understand the hukou system, it’s a perfect illustration of the horrific human cost of migration restrictions. As I understand it, during the Maoist era of famine and collective farms, having a rural hukou often meant starving to death. I’m aware that today it isn’t enforced anything like as rigidly, and obviously economic conditions have changed enormously, but – correct me if I’m wrong – I gather that it’s produced a large population of, in effect, undocumented migrant workers who have moved from the countryside to cities, and who are exploited and marginalized in much the same way as undocumented immigrants in the West? (I could be misunderstanding, since I don’t speak Chinese and am not an expert on China, although I studied this topic briefly during my last master’s degree.)
I don’t think the West can exactly take a moral high ground on this, given that our governments do exactly the same thing – discriminating according to one’s place of birth, and imposing arbitrary and discriminatory restrictions on economic migration – when it comes to transnational migration. And in the West as much as in China, migration restrictions primarily hurt the poor and marginalized.
There is only one just and humane solution: open borders everywhere. And when one looks at it on a global scale, it would also be far more economically-efficient, and far more empowering of the individual, for people to be free to migrate where there is a demand for their labour. Economic migration happens anyway, because the economic incentives for migration for people living in extreme poverty are so strong; migration restrictions simply ensure that more migrants are trapped in situations of poverty and exploitation, and are deprived of economic autonomy. (This is true not just for undocumented migrants, but also for legal guest-workers, like H-1 visa holders in the US, who are tied to working for a particular employer and don’t have free access to the labour market.)
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Kristinc, that octopus is brilliant. So much so I had to get one for myself.
(Sorry for ranting. I’ve just spent a great deal of time over the last semester studying immigration laws and their effects, and am more and more committed to the view that they should be abolished.)
===
Btw, Sally: I’m sorry I couldn’t do anything to help re the dental treatment situation. :-(
If I could knit, I’d knit a Cute Cephalopod of Swift Post-Root-Canal Recovery (a friend, of course, of the Pig of Happiness*) for you.
(*To reassure everyone, I just checked: “Edward Monkton” is a pseudonym, and the author is no relation to the third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley. The former has certainly made a much greater contribution to society than the latter.)
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
SallyStrange: check out the cuttlefish! I’m going to have to fiddle with the octopus project to seal up the bottom so there won’t be any loose stuffing for baby to choke on, but the cuttlefish is even baby-safe. So maybe I should have made that instead but I’m pretty sure my niece and her husband would have no idea what a cuttlefish is so I went for the recognizable cephalopod. :/
Ooh, she has patterns for corals too. Awesome.
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Oh Walton. Always apologizing.
I have a great many favors to pay forward. So do you, I’m sure.
chigau (違う)says
I think, if it were possible, I would go across broken glass, on my knees, to be in the studio for a taping of QI.
diannesays
Random complaint about the FTB site: the header is always the crocoduck. I like the crocoduck header, but miss the random selection that science blogs had. Any chance of getting them back?
John Moralessays
chigau, I tried watching an episode of QI — twice.
(I’m sure you can guess my opinion of it, from that)
Political crisis in PNG
Right now they have two prime ministers, two cabinets, two governors-general, and two police commissioners.
It seems we have another governor-general related constitutional crisis on our hands here. But my question to Walton: how can the parliament replace the governor-general without involving Buckingham Palace? Some headlines say “Queen may be forced to intervene”. But how can a governor-general be disposed without first getting royal assent/consent/whatever?
Britain’s moral collapse
Conservatives like to spew this kind of crap, it seems. When Helmut Kohl became chancellor in 1982, he was talking about effecting a “spriritual-moral turnover” (geistig-moralische Wende) in West Germany. He then showed by his involvement in this scandal what kind of morals he was apparently referring to.
antidisestablishmentarianism
often considered the longest “mainstream” English word. (In certain technical areas, especially chemistry, there are very long words, though some regard them as verbal formulae instead of words, so it’s always hard to properly define what falls under the rubric of “longest word in the English language”. But presumably, antidisestablishmentarianism would be a word used in the mass media, not specifically coined for the entry in the “longest word competition”)
You’re right. (Except that, like in Latin, Greek and German, the word for “human” is grammatically masculine. I suppose this goes all the way back to the times when Proto-Indo-European had two genders, animate and inanimate.)
I find it fascinating how it turned into three genders, and then got reduced again in the various modern languages, along different lines, like back to common-neuter in the Scandinavian languages (except for Norwegian), and masculine-femine in the Romance languages.
One thing I find puzzling however is the fact that wife/wijf/viv/Weib is neuter in Germanic (and used to be in Old English). It’s a root exclusive to Germanic, so it’s not from PIE, but under the old animate-inanimate system, one wouldn’t expect this to be neuter?
Huh. I’ll keep that in mind if the recent proposal to introduce constituency votes in Austria ever goes anywhere. (Guess which party the proposal came from!)
Probably the SPÖ or ÖVP?
Well, some German state constitutions have compensatory seats (Ausgleichmandate) for the over-hang seats (Überhangmandate). Then, the system becomes acceptable again. I think a pure party list system can often be alienating the parties from their voters, especially in larger countries, so I think the basic idea behind the German election law is a good one. I don’t know, does Austria do elections by Land? The Austrian Länder might be small enough that pure state-level party lists wouldn’t be that problematic.
That protest party split off from the Social Democrats who had become too little social for some people’s tastes.
More accurately, it was started by disgruntled trade unionists. The relationship between the SPD and the trade unions had been rocky for some time then already. The WASG, and later the merged party, also combined some other elements not previously associated with the SPD, for instance the West German Communists.
So hard to say if it’s a pure split-off. You could also say that the Greens were a split-off in some ways, since the SPD in the 80s had ignored the peace and ecology movements, but the Green party wasn’t just started by disgruntled ex-Social Democrats either.
Case in point: there’s a village in Bavaria where one person voted for the Social Democrats and everyone else voted conservative. TV comedians walked around the place trying to find the socialist, asking people questions like “are you a working mass?”. They never found him or her.
Well, single villages are never a good sample, I think. Bavaria shows the typical urban-rural contrast, with the SPD and Greens stronger there. But the Bavarian Green Party also had a very charismatic farmer leading them at some time (he unfortunately died of cancer in 2010 and had resigned from politics in 2008), he was the first green mayor in Bavaria, of Traunstein, a medium-sized town in the countryside http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Daxenberger). Also don’t forget that next door, the Green Party was able to upset the “natural order of things” and actually have the first Green party state governor in the history of Germany (or maybe anywhere in the world? Usually Green parties never get that many votes that they get to lead a government, do they?)
hukou system
Like the Japanese honseki system, a family registry system. In China this is used to restrict domestic movement though. Migrant workers rarely get official work permits for the province they work in, thus weakening their legal position in case of conflicts. Also their children may not go to school where they live, prompting migrant to open private semi-legal migrant schools, and they are not entitled to the free healthcare where they live, only back home, but in poor provinces the free healthcare is worth shit. So this system is breeding a lot of resentment. But as I said, we’ve seen legal strikes increasing, the authorities seem to recognise that the position of workers needs to be improved, so hopefully they will reform the system. (Middle-class people btw do not have any problem at all to get their work permits adequately changed)
glad you didn’t get that job! In Indonesia, I was once having dinner with some businesspeople, and they were discussing the protests against mining projects that were occurring in many places across the country. The attitude displayed by these people appalled me…
And let’s face it, in modern China, Chongqing is synonymous with corruption now, isn’t it!! They executed various top officials for corruption there http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10535226
(note: Chongqing, originally part of Sichuan province, has been designated a direct-controlled municipality, not belonging to any province. It thus doesn’t have a provincial level with which to share the corruption)
(I could be misunderstanding, since I don’t speak Chinese and am not an expert on China, although I studied this topic briefly during my last master’s degree.)
As I said the signs have been positive recently. It’s also because low-level work is being outsourced to Vietnam and other SE Asian countries right now, so China is now depending on qualified workers with experience. Sometimes workers have better chances at employment than university graduates. This scarcity has given them a better negotiation position, independent of their legal status.
Well, single villages are never a good sample, I think. Bavaria shows the typical urban-rural contrast, with the SPD and Greens stronger in urban areas.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Tethys: those are hyperbolic corals; the patterns are for branching and blooming forms. (The hyperbolic coral technique also makes a good ruffled-type anemone, like Metridium.)
Also theophontes, thank you for the info re “釘子戶” (ding1zi hu4) nail house), this is a cool neologism. And cool pic too.
Apparently in Hong Long they have the “nail king” (釘王). This can also refer to speculators buying buildings in the expectation that at some later date they will be able to sell those at profit to developers.
mephistophelessays
Re: discussion up-thread about LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses:
I’m not very tech-savvy on blogs and wonder if someone can help me out:
A few weeks ago I read “somewhere” on FTB– don’t know if it was Phyaryngula or not– a commenter’s story about dealing with a JW (I think). It was a great write about feigning interest in their doctrines, having them come back a week later. He then gave them a “bible study” and with lots of biblical proof, walked them right into admitting that God’s biblical guidance for dealing with his recalcitrant teenager was to kill him. He was “grateful” for their guidance and they left choking on their own tongues.
It was HILARIOUS! Perfect cross-examination. Does anyone know of a way to search and find the anecdote? I want to bookmark it.
cicely, Disturber of the Peassays
Caine, I like the kinda lavendar-colored jellyfish best. :)
In further potential light-up jellyfish news: LED tea lights with switches. I had no idea there was such a thing!
–
*goes to find somewhere else to be a language nerd*
But…but…does this mean you don’t like us any more??? *wide, stricken eyes*
–
Inspired by those findings, we conducted another experiment to test a possible strategy for reducing people’s bias blind spot. That strategy involved teaching people that their judgments can be affected by processes (such as biases) that operate unconsciously. Such education, we reasoned, could help people to recognize their susceptibility to bias by preventing them from relying on introspective evidence of it. In our experiment, some subjects read a fabricated article informing them about the role of nonconscious processes in judgment, and about people’s lack of awareness when they are influenced by unconscious processes. Other subjects were in a control condition and did not read that article. Both groups read a filler article masking our true interests. Then, in an ostensibly separate experiment, participants were asked to indicate their personal susceptibility relative to their student peers to a variety of different judgmental biases.
I have perhaps conflated this (in itself a conflation) with starstuff’s version. Though I could swear I read it in Latin. (And now I have an earwig in my brain about this.)
@ pelamun
Hong Long
I pressume you mean “Hong Kong”? I actually live in such a building. Hong Kong landlords are completely au fait with their positions with regard to being nails.
I am not complaining about our landlord, but there are other building owners who leave their buildings empty. As a former “kraker” (squatter) I am very much against allowing situations like this. Especially as Hong Kong has some of the worst housing conditions on the planet. (And certainly the very worst value for money.) Only the iniquities in Hong Kong could lead to ideas like “cage dwellings” and “cubicle dwellings”. This is the city that now parades as the most “business friendly” on the planet.
…………….
As critical as I may have been in the last few comments with regard to certain aspects of China, I would however like to add that there is a lot of good going on here. I certainly have more faith in the direction China is taking wrt its people. There is a genuine concern here from many in government to improve the lot of fellow citizens. It is quite the opposite to America (at least from what I see, read and hear), where at every turn the less well off are attacked and hounded by their own government (mis)representatives.
yes, I’ve decided only to correct major typos/errors. I thought given the fact that the L key is next to the K key, it was clear “Hong Long” was a typo for “Hong Kong”…
I agree that despite all criticism, the record of the CPCh in recent years (emphasis on RECENT) is admirable wrt economic progress which has slowly reached all sectors of society. (even though economic disparities are widening).
However, there are two things I see very critically:
1. the undemocratic system. At this point, despite all complaints about abuses and corruption, I think that the CPCh would actually be able to win democratic elections, because many Chinese people rightly credit them with developing the country to the point where it is today. This clinging to old repressive strategies will prove detrimental in the long run.
2. nationalism replacing communism as state-sponsored ideology. I’ve met many Chinese academics over the years (online and offline), and it has always struck me how nationalistic they have become. This has created a situation in which the Chinese govt can no longer afford to make concessions on any number of foreign policy issues without risking widespread domestic anger, and makes me worry about the regional security in East Asia.
and it pains me that a German elder statesman I admire greatly (though not as much as his predecessor who simply was the greatest politician the FRG has ever had), can appear on a prime time TV show and say things, without a word of protest from the audience or the moderator, like “we shouldn’t force our ideas about human rights and democracy on China”…. gah… but Helmut Schmidt has been a panda-hugger for years now….
Oh, right, Walton re PNG
Listening to Radio Australia, it appears that Peter O’Neill, the younger of the two competing prime ministers, only “suspended” Michael Otagio, the governor-general, arguing that this stemmed from some executive powers vested in the cabinet or somesuch. Whether this was a legal move or whether this was in contempt of the Supreme Court decision to reinstate Michael Somare as PNG’s Eternal Prime Minister will probably be up to the PNG internal political process. It was said that the GG could only be deposed by consulting with Buckingham Palace..
Altruism in Religionless Rats … Dedicated to Caine…
Huh? Caine is a goddess – so her rats must be religious. (godbots may think she is The Devil, but this still proves my point.)
@ pelamun
Chinese … how nationalistic they have become.
I have only lived here for six years (given that, my Mandarin is quite shocking) so cannot say I’ve noticed any changes. Yes, nationalism is quite strong. But so is a very strong interest in and respect for the outside world. The most noticeable issue in the general regard to nationalism is that China is one big family. The friendliness and general lack of violence here is actually very heartening. What is your relationship to China? I gather it is more than linguistic.
I went camping with my brother and a friend. What with the beers and chatting we forgot the grill on the fire for a little long. Our friend tried to pick it up and branded a big handle shape on his hand. As loudly as he shouted in pain, my brother laughed out loud at him … only to do exactly the same thing a minute later.
OED picks (anglophone) Word of the Year 2011, “squeezed middle”, sparks argument on Language Log whether the Word of the Year should actually be a word or not (PRO and CONTRA)
one day we will have a beer somewhere between 香港 and 深圳, I hope…
Let me just say that my mother is from East Asia (though not from a Chinese-speaking country) and my father from Central Europe. I took Chinese studies as a minor in college and spent a year in Taiwan a long time ago… I’ve been to China twice, but every time to Beijing and only for a week. But I’m constantly in contact with Chinese and Taiwanese people online and offline…
In a broader historical context, Chinese nationalist issues like the Nanjing massacre begin to play a role only from the time of the normalisation of Sino-Japanese relations in 1972. With the implementation of market economy reforms starting with Deng’s southern tour in 1992, the communist ideology fades into the background, the void being replaced by a nationalist one (if it’s really an agenda, I wouldn’t be able to say, but it has filled the gap perfectly).
For instance, this book should discuss some of the issues related to that, we discussed that book in the seminar I once took on the Nanjing massacre.
The Nanjing massacre in history and historiography. 2000. Joshua Fogel (ed). UCP
The following is based on my personal observations:
– China has long had a supremacist world view, it’s already in the name 中國, “Middle Kingdom” – the barbarians outside/beneath, and the gods above (other synonyms for China, 天下 “everything under the heavens”, 神州 “land of the gods”, this is the name the Chinese space rockets bear, Shenzhou). The experience of “semi-colonialisation” (半殖民地化) starting 150 years ago with the Opium Wars has had a profound impact on the nationalist agenda that is now prevalent in China. When I was a T.A. in a GSL centre, we once had an essay topic “my country 100 years ago”. All essays by Chinese students were about this semi-colonialisation issue!!
– The memory of this is embodied in the slogan 不忘國恥 “we do not forget the national disgrace”. In a sense, Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan were the three remaining reminders of this national disgrace. By 1999, two of the three had been returned and now only Taiwan remains. (I always say, why should 23 million Taiwanese be sacrificed for the collective psychotherapy of 1.3 billion Chinese). It’s been the dream of every Chinese leader since Jiang Zemin to be the one who makes the nation whole again.
– in light of this, the Tibet and Xinjiang issues are not seen as issues of ethnic minority rights, but as renewed attempts of the West to weaken and humiliate China again by splitting it up (and Taiwan, although not under direct Chinese control, is crucial not just because of its role as the “last missing bit”, but also because recognising its de facto independence might trigger a domino effect). Until now I’ve only met one Chinese person who claimed not to care about the TTT issues (the third T being “Chinese Turkestan”), though I try to avoid discussions about the TTT at all costs with Chinese people. But often Chinese people will bring up the topics of their own account. For instance, one time, an online friend started a conversation “today, I really hate the French!”. Where do people ever start conversations like that!! (The context were some Italian made rabbit head sculptures stolen from the Summer Palace during the Boxer Revolt, materialising among the assets of late YSL. Legend has it that Cixi herself found the head too ugly for her taste).
– the idea of nation and national sovereignty is also an important concept here. A stereotypical conversation between Germans and Chinese about the TTT:
C: so what would you do if Bavaria suddenly declared its independence from Germany?
G: we would say “Good riddance, maybe the Austrians will take you”.
if the Chinese person in context has lived in Europe for some time, they might then add:
C: well this is such typical European/Western thinking. In China, we have a different idea of national unity. You can’t just leave and split up the country.
(This is also why I think that Walton’s ideas about a world without borders will remain a pipe dream. The role of China in the world will increase rather than decrease, and a global system dominated by China will strengthen national sovereignty rather than weaken it.)
One time, a Chinese friend told me that Tibetans are so different from Chinese that she wouldn’t regard them as Chinese people, and from a cultural p.o.v. they might as well become independent. But from the standpoint of national unity, this just couldn’t happen.
But some other people get really really emotional about the issue. At the seminar about the Nanjing massacre, we had a Chinese engineering student as participant, who got really angry at any viewpoint divergent from what he learnt in school. I asked him what he thought on the Taiwan issue, and he said “they should acquiesce to unification already”. Until then, I had made the experience that people were the less nationalist the more educated they were, and this experience with this guy (and later with others) really frightened me.
– On a side note, I’m amazed that you’ve never had any unpleasant experiences with Chinese people. When we were in Beijing in 1997, our group was yelled at for being foreign. Of course you find racism anywhere, but I’ve heard Chinese people make pretty racist remarks about Uighurs (Chinese people who were from Xinjiang), or black people.
– Now after I’ve written so many negative things: there are of course many things I love about China, its culture and its people, I’ve spent many years studying the languages, and the cultures etc. But the nationalism issue is one that I regard with concern.
That would be in the middle of 米埔濕地 ! (Mai Po marshes)
Thank you for the above, I am always interested in others take on China.
wrt Chinese democracy, I think that cities might take the lead. Not just the obvious ones like Hong Kong and Macao, but also Shanghai or Shenzhen. (I have a lot to say about Hong Kong, but we can raise that over a beer.) This may sound very selfish of me, but I think a “democracy” like the US, or a populist variant could be an unmitigated disaster for the planet. It certainly won’t be an instant cure. As China lives up to its name “Peoples’ Republic”, this might anyhow become less of an issue.
I saw a mini-van today with faux antlers attached to the side windows and a fluffy red ball on the grill.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
The Sailor: We have one of those parked down the road.
There’s one house a ways down, seems to be some kind of group home for mentally disabled adults, and I think that’s the house the reindeer minivan belongs to. But I’m not sure.
On a side note, it’s either that house or their neighbors, but every time I walk past I get a noseful of some really excellent smelling pot. Makes me fuckin drool every time.
depends on your definition of “word”. Many lexicographers exclude words like “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious”. There’s an entire Wiki article on it (though it doesn’t really use consistent criteria, or define them properly).
It says the longest word to ever appear in a major dictionary was Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, but the problem with that word is that it apparently was coined on purpose to be the longest word.
Antidisestablishmentarianism seems to be the longest “uncontroversial” English word.
changeable monikersays
“today, I really hate the French!”. Where do people ever start conversations like that!!
England! There’s a reason God put 26 miles of water between them and us. ;)
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
I like that word, flibbertigibbet. I hereby resolve to use that word in real life at least once tomorrow.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
or later today, as it were.
5 am, beginning to see spots, but I have no particular urge to go to bed, despite being tired.
I heard a great mnemonic about memorising the eight imperialist nations involved in suppressing the Boxer Revolt:
“if you’re hungry, stew an eagle every day”
餓的話每日熬一鷹
e4 de hua4 mei2 ri4 ao4 yi4 ying1
俄德法美日奧義英
e2 de2 fa3 mei3 ri4 ao4 yi4 ying1
Russia Germany France USA Japan Austria Italy Britain
ChasCPetersonsays
why would something meant to keep bugs away produce such wonderful effects when ingested by certain primates?
good question
a. it’s not the type of ‘repellent’ that is designed to ‘keep bugs away’ like DEET. It’s more likely to be a deterrent to insects that try to eat the leaves of the plant.
b. so the logical hypothesis is that THC evolved in the plant to bind to the endocannabanoid receptors of herbivorous insects and mess with them unpleasantly or even fatally. The fact that we primates also have cannabanoid receptors (inherited from the endocannabanoid receptors of ancestors, including the common ancestor of us and insects, but evolutionarily shifted perhaps in specific function) and that stimulating them moderately is highly pleasant would be a happy accident, but at least the mechanism of fucks-w/-insects but gets-people-high would be strightforward.
c. except that no cannabanoid receptors have been found in insects (even though there is evidence for functional endocannabanoid systems in many other types of invertebrates (ref).
So it’s entirely unclear at the moment what the mechanism of insect deterrence is, and your question can’t be answered. yet.
Silisays
pelamun, ‘antidisestablishmentarianism’ is not the longest word, Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is. Don’t make me link to it.
What a floccinaucinihilipilificatory argument.
waltonsays
But my question to Walton: how can the parliament replace the governor-general without involving Buckingham Palace? Some headlines say “Queen may be forced to intervene”. But how can a governor-general be disposed without first getting royal assent/consent/whatever?
Depends on the national constitution. I just had a look at the constitution of Papua New Guinea. The Governor-General there, unlike in other Commonwealth realms, is nominated by the PNG Parliament; the Queen is constitutionally obliged to appoint whomever the Parliament nominates. (This is constitutionally binding “advice”, just as she is constitutionally bound to act in accordance with the “advice” of the PM in respect of British executive decisions.)
What the PNG constitution says about dismissal and suspension of the Governor-General is as follows:
93. Dismissal and removal from office.
(1) The Governor-General may be dismissed from office by the Head of State, acting with, and in accordance with, the advice of the National Executive Council given in accordance with either—
(a) a decision of the National Executive Council; or
(b) a decision made by an absolute majority of the Parliament.
…
94. Suspension from office.
(1) The Governor-General may be suspended from office—
(a) by the National Executive Council, if he refuses or fails to act in accordance with the advice of the National Executive Council or of any other body or authority in accordance with whose advice he is obliged, in the particular case, to act, or acts, or purports to act contrary to, or without, any such advice; or
(b) in accordance with an Act of the Parliament pending an investigation for the purposes of Section 93(2) (dismissal and removal from office), and pending any resultant action by the Parliament.
(2) If the Governor-General is suspended from office by the National Executive Council under Subsection (1)(a), the Prime Minister shall immediately inform the Speaker of the suspension and of the reasons for it.
(3) If the Governor-General is suspended from office under Subsection (1)(a)—
(a) the Speaker shall, as soon as practicable, call a meeting of the Parliament at which the matter of the suspension and of the possible dismissal of the Governor-General shall be the first item of business after any formal business and, if necessary, the appointment of a Speaker; and
(b) the suspension may be lifted at any time by decision of the Parliament; and
(c) unless before the end of the meeting a recommendation is made in accordance with Section 93(1) (dismissal and removal from office) that the Governor-General be dismissed from office, the suspension ceases at the end of the meeting.
(4) If the Governor-General is suspended from office under this section, the Prime Minister shall, as soon as practicable, inform the Head of State of the suspension and of the reasons for it.
(5) A period of suspension under this section shall be taken into account in calculating for the purposes of this Division, the length of the period of service in office of the Governor-General.
The “National Executive Council” in this context is, effectively, the Prime Minister and Cabinet. So they do have authority to suspend or to remove the Governor-General, in principle.
In late March, an ailing 75 year old [Prime Minister Michael] Somare went to Singapore for major heart surgery, leaving another MP, Sam Abal, as acting prime minister. Complications saw him remain there until September. His condition seemed grave, on 28th June his son Arthur (also an MP) announced a Somare family decision that his father had retired. It was, however, a decision about which the PM later said he had not been consulted. In any event, there was a high degree of uncertainty about how to deal with the situation. Moves were made to follow complex constitutionally mandated procedures to have Somare declared unable to be PM, on medical grounds, but the process was difficult.
On 2 August, leader of the opposition, Belden Namah, unexpectedly moved a motion in parliament to declare the PM’s office vacant. Despite the absence of a constitutional basis for such a step, the speaker allowed the motion. Some 48 members of the government voted in support of the opposition, including about half of Somare’s NA members. The then Minister for Finance and Treasury was elected PM. The move was attacked as unconstitutional by many observers, and challenged in a succession of court cases culminating in a Supreme Court decision handed down on 12 December.
The court’s decision declared unconstitutional both Somare’s removal as PM and Parliament’s decision to declare his seat empty, and ordered Somare’s restoration. On the same day, however, parliament passed an amendment to the Prime Minister and National Executive Council Act law retrospectively validating the acts of the Parliament in removing Somare as PM. There were 72 votes in favour.
Somare sought action from the governor-general to swear in his cabinet. After hesitation, the governor-general honoured the Supreme Court orders, and the swearing in occurred on 13 December. In response, parliament (O’Neil’s support there remaining solid) directed the governor-general to swear in O’Neil. When the governor-general failed to do so, the O’Neil Cabinet suspended him. Under the PNG constitution, suspension results in the speaker becoming acting governor-general. O’Neil was then sworn in again as PM by the acting governor-general.
Both Somare and O’Neil claim a constitutional basis for being PM, one under a Supreme Court order, the other under the December 12 Act of Parliament, a law which the Supreme Court has not yet considered. As each PM has appointed their own ministers, there are parallel cabinets. While Somare recognises the authority of the governor-general, O’Neil instead recognises the acting governor-general.
What a mess. (It couldn’t have happened in most other Commonwealth realms, since most have no such mechanism for removing the Governor-General.)
thanks, Walton, for checking the PNG constitution. Interesting mechanism about suspending the GG. So this seems to be unique among the CW nations then..
It’s really unfortunate. Michael Somare has been a man with many contribution to PNG, but his political life now seems to be over. The way this was handled by his rival though has split the country in two, so this is a highly risky situation. Fortunately until now it seems bloodshed has been avoided, let’s hope it will be resolved in a peaceful way…
But of course THC is not the only plant-evolved insect deterrent. Nicotine, opiates, cocaine, most of the interesting spices, the smell of minty freshness, etc.: all were almost certainly originally functional as herbivore deterrents.
waltonsays
I won’t comment on Somare, but I don’t see why 75 is too old to be Prime Minister, personally.
Indeed, we’ve had an epidemic of ridiculously young and inexperienced PMs lately. Cameron took office at the age of 43, and I suspect his lack of life-experience, and of any real experience anything outside politics (he was at Oxford, worked in PR for a short while and worked as a party advisor, and then became an MP at a very young age), is part of why this government has been such a clusterfuck. Doubly so for Osborne, and much of the rest of the Cabinet.
(But then, I’m more and more cynical about this whole democracy and party politics thingy. I’d rather be ruled by Prince Charles.)
Hi there
Thanks for all the well-wishes
I’m claiming that Hitchens has already worked his first miracle.
I was all cold and shivering last night, then I raised my Scotch to him and suddenly I became all hot and sweaty, went to bed with a good fever and am feeling much better this morning.
I also don’t find “rest in peace” objectionable. I always thought about it in terms of no more suffering. Let’s face it, most people die after quite some suffering and that’s over then. A long, dreamless sleep with no morning.
I’ve heard my gran express such sentiments lately. She wants peace, no more worries, cares or demands.
well he’s had some health issues, and I do think the job of PM is so stressful that 75 appears like a good time to become an elder statesman. It’s never good for political stability if your PM dies in office. Just remember the farce that happened when the Japanese PM Obuchi died. The party brokers sought to keep the death of the highest political office from the public because his sudden death had them scrambling to figure out who was going to become the next PM…
After members sign over their assets, he [Jessop] said, they’re required to undergo extensive interviews to determine if they are worthy of FLDS membership
That sounds like a great scam. “Give us all your money and then we’ll decide whether we’ll let you join.”
I swear, my conscience is the only thing standing between me and billionaire status.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
I just had an “I’m going to kill my boss” moment.
We have a volunteer group in with some Lionel trains and they are bringing in a Santa for the kids to get photos (it is covered in the special use permit). And my boss comes out of his office, looks at me, and says, “The volunteer Santa is sick. So is the backup.”
At which point I lifted my left arm and pointed at him (whole hand point, as I have been trained). He continued, “And the voluteer who was supposed to show up for the gallery won’t be in. So we don’t know if there’ll be a Santa or not. They’re trying to get one. Why are do you look angry?”
“Because I thought you were about to ask me to do it.”
“Oh, no. But you and me are the right shape.”
“Yeah,” I answered, “But I don’t do jolly. My humour is either bad puns or sarcasm.”
“Not to worry. I wasn’t gonna ask you.”
“Good. Because then I would have had to kill you.”
Luckily, I didn’t have to find out if killing my boss was literal or metaphorical.
but more importantly, Peter O’Neill had the majority (I don’t know if the claims that Somare had lost public support were just propaganda from the O’Neill side or were true, Somare has been the PNG PM from 1975-1980, 1982-1985, and then from 2002. In a democracy, this usually creates fatigue effects (just ask Germans who lived under Kohl’s chancellorship from 1982-1998). I just don’t get why O’Neill had to use such dubious, heavy-handed moves if he had the majority in parliament behind him…
birgerjohanssonsays
This is something for the John Birch Society to get paranoid about…
Interesting…the Vatican is an extremely hierarchic and intolerant organisation, while still hanging on (theorethically) to the ideal that material wealth is not the road to happiness. Yet, lots of greedy catholic millionaries (think Joe Kennedy) will not for a minute reconsider their activities, whether it is union-busting, tax fraud or straightforward theft.
— — — —- — — — — — — — — — — —
Pelamun: -maybe “honour to his/her memory”?
.
Reminds me of the Norse verses in Havamal:
“Fä dör
fränder dör
själv dör du likaledes
– Ett vet jag som aldrig dör
dom över död man”
I leave it to others with a better language sense to translate it to ´merican :-)
(good translations are as hard as good comedy)
— — — —
The Swedish government has decided to extend the powers of warrantless wiretapping on digital transmissions.
HULK ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
carliesays
Kitten spent the entire night stuck in a closet. Didn’t meow to let us find her until 7am. This one’s going to be a handful. Thought about getting a bell collar for her to find her more easily, but I think the constant noise would give her a nervous breakdown.
Still haven’t named her; we made a list and everyone checked their favorites, and it appears Grace (as a pun on her color gray) is the only one the entire family likes.
She’s finally moving around the house a little bit, but still very skittish. Why did I get a new kitten again? *satisfied yet slightly exasperated sigh*
(checking Old Norse dictionaries, it’s probably not “were”, but it might be some kind of distributive, like “anyone who dies”, but my knowledge of Old Norse grammar is sorely lacking)
pelamun: You speak Old Norse too? Dammit, are there any languages you don’t speak? Manx, perhaps? Or Norn?
You’re also reminding me of Tolkien. (Who, of course, was, in his day job, one of the world’s foremost experts on Anglo-Saxon, Norse and other early Germanic languages. Writing novels was originally just a hobby.)
nah, I’m cheating, using Icelandic as a stand-in for Old Norse, as it is the North Germanic language that has remained the closest to Old Norse. I’ve always had a special place in my heart for Icelandic, and unlike Old Norse, there is actually a possibility of actually using it with living people!
Also, compare the Old Norse with the translation into Swedish
“Fä dör
fränder dör
själv dör du likaledes
– Ett vet jag som aldrig dör
dom över död man”
Deyr fé,
deyja frændr,
deyr sjálfr et sama;
ek veit einn,
at aldri deyr:
dómr um dauðan hvern.
Except for the last sentence, it’s pretty obvious, don’t you think. Swedish just has lost a lot of morphological complexity, and if you know some sound change rules like the vowel breaking and monophthongisation of diphthongs in Eastern Scandinavian, i.e. jag vs. eg/ek, or vet v. veit, then it should be quite clear…
Regarding Celtic languages, I only know the absolute minimum any typological linguist has to know about them (so mainly grammatical characteristics)
waltonsays
Norn is the obscure extinct Norse dialect once spoken in the Shetland and Orkney Islands – islands which were originally Norwegian, albeit effectively independent and ruled by a hereditary jarl, but passed to the crown of Scotland in the Middle Ages. I’ve always wanted to go there (despite my generally bad experiences of Scotland in the past*).
(*When I was in the OTC, I spent a week getting cold, miserable and bitten by mosquitoes at Garelochhead training area. It’s not a part of the world I would recommend to tourists. The Highlands, on the other hand, are a little more pleasant.)
waltonsays
Regarding Celtic languages, I only know the absolute minimum any typological linguist has to know about them (so mainly grammatical characteristics)
Aww… I wish I could speak Welsh. Much of my family heritage is Welsh (albeit from South Wales, where English is more widely-spoken than Welsh), but I’ve never lived there and don’t speak the language at all. (Though I can sing Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau with the correct pronounciation. Unlike John Redwood.)
Celtic is the standard answer for examples for VSO word order.
I really feel a bit of sadness about Celtic, as it has become completely extinct on the continent, mainly due to the Roman conquests. The Celtic language spoken in the Bretagne is actually orignally from Britain, i.e. classified as insular Celtic.
Dia duit
Giliell is anum dom.
That’s more or less all that is left of 2 semesters of Gaelge
Funny enough, I remember more grammatical rules and pecularities than I remember actual words
Talking about languages, I just wrote a mail in French. I hope they can decipher what I want.
Trying to write a letter to my cousin in Swedish… Reading is much easier than writing (duh!)… Problem is that Scandinavians speak English too well, and the Language Exchange Law (TM) predicts that you will subconsciously gravitate towards using the language both sides speak best… (so in a sense it’s good that French people don’t like to speak English)*) But now that my cousin has kids, this gives me motivation to improve my active command of the language….
*) American friends of mine keep complaining about Germans refusing to speak German with them unless their command of German is near perfect.. instead the Germans foist their often less-than-perfect English on them /subjective
waltonsays
I really feel a bit of sadness about Celtic, as it has become completely extinct on the continent, mainly due to the Roman conquests.
It is sad. It’s sad that so many languages and cultures have disappeared, in truth; in the British isles, Manx and Norn are dead, and the Jerriais language (a Norman French dialect spoken in the Channel Islands*) is in the process of dying.
(*The only other relic of medieval Norman French is in English legal terminology. It’s the reason why many English legal terms are either of direct French origin – tort, mortgage, the now-rarely-used archaic term “cestui que trust” for the beneficiary of a trust, a “profit a prendre” which is a proprietary right to take natural resources from land, and so on – or have a French-like noun-adjective order, like attorney general, court martial, fee simple, and so on.)
(Again you’re reminding me of Tolkien. :-p He was upset about a great many long-ago historical events, not least the Norman Conquest, which he saw as very bad for England. Me, I’m a little more modern: I get sad about the twentieth-century demise of so many once-beautiful European monarchies. Oh well.)
Cannabinaceaesays
Sailor, TLC: re: THC: OPP neither makes me drool nor lick my chops. I just breathe in a few nosefuls, close my eyes, lean my head back, and say “mmmmmm”. I then hope for a spontaneous offer, which, even if not forthcoming, I follow with saying “nice”.
Somebody please tell me, how to you say “kiss my ass” in Irish? I thought I knew, but I tried it on an Irish friend and they were not in accord with my presumed knowledge.
Grumpssays
Do you know what? At the moment I don’t really feel like debating the pros and cons of Christopher Hitchens’ views on various issues… I feel like watching some of these “hitchslaps” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w
As a linguist, it’s not surprising that I’m sad about the loss of linguistic diversity.
I can be upset about more modern events too. Especially I’m still upset about the Greater Hamburg Law of 1937. Two Prussian provinces had to give up valuable cities to Hamburg (Hanover had to give up Harburg, and Schleswig-Holstein had to give up two, Altona, and Wandsbek, and they only got “rubbish” in return, Cuxhaven (an exclave possession of Hamburg) for Hanover, and Lübeck (another independent city, which, so the legend goes, had angered Hitler in the 1920s with preventing him from olding a rally there) for Schleswig-Holstein)
Damn Nazis!
(I might be the only person who still cares about this…)
Did I tell you that I once had dinner at a Tolkien-styled cafe in Texas with a professor from England who actually had heard lectures from Tolkien in Oxford?
“kiss my ass”. maybe you said “kiss my donkey”? Googling for “kiss my ass” in different language came up with websites that gave translation to that effect, like “Küssen Sie meinen Esel”, which totally doesn’t make any sense whatsoever in German, unless you own a donkey which you want kissed.
waltonsays
Did I tell you that I once had dinner at a Tolkien-styled cafe in Texas with a professor from England who actually had heard lectures from Tolkien in Oxford?
No. That’s awesome! And not surprising: Tolkien taught at Oxford until 1959 and gave undergraduate lectures every year, so anyone who read English and matriculated before Michaelmas of ’58 would probably have been to his lectures. (The author Diana Wynne Jones, for instance, who died earlier this year, graduated in 1956 and attended lectures by both Tolkien and C.S. Lewis.) His lectures on Beowulf (about which he knew more than pretty much anyone alive at the time) were famous. Though some say he was actually a poor lecturer because of his tendency to speak very fast.
I’ve always been slightly obsessed with Tolkien. (triskelethecat very generously gave me Humphrey Carpenter’s biography of Tolkien as a gift earlier this year; I’d read the biography when I was a teenager, but I didn’t own a copy.) The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are two of the earliest novels I remember reading, and he’s definitely shaped my literary tastes and poetic voice in later life. Of course I don’t think he was right about everything – he was a devout Catholic*, for instance, and also had a lifelong irrational dislike of France and the French** – but I’ve always identified with him as a person, a great deal.
(*Largely due to the influence of his mother, who converted to Catholicism when Tolkien was very young.)
(**Which I suspect may have had something to do with the fact that he served on the Western Front during WWI, a shitty experience which I imagine would make anyone reluctant to go back to France.)
You can buy a violent computer game for your christian friends for Xmas. In this game, players have to try to convert every non-christian, including atheists. If non-believers won’t convert, then players must kill them. Nice, huh?
To be fair, a lot of the christian advertising for the game emphasizes that shooting is a last resort. And they claim that violence is not encouraged.
The game is Left Behind: Eternal Forces. Yep, the inspiration behind this game is Tim LaHaye’s Left Behind book series.
…Those left behind form into two armies: The Tribulation Force of the newly repentant born-again, and sepulchral, one-world-government forces led by Nicolae Carpathian, a man who is charismatic, effeminate, European and thus quite obviously Satan.
… the great surprise of Left Behind: Eternal Forces is that it actually kind of rocks. It’s a classic real-time strategy game: Starting with a single “recruiter,” your job is to proselytize followers, level them up into an army of soldiers, medics and “spirit warriors,” then bring a hard rain down on the forces of the Antichrist. This all takes place in a sprawling version of Manhattan that is rendered with breathtaking accuracy — down to the precise location of Duane Reade drugstores — and superb camera work….
…the developers incorporated prayer as a central game mechanic. Each of your team members has a “spirit” ranking. If you let them get too fatigued or hurt, their spirit drops into “neutral” territory and you lose them. You can sway enemies to your side by unleashing your “spirit warriors” or Christian-rock singers, whose joyful noises raise the spirit of anyone near them. (You can even convert evil forces if you’re persuasive enough. Of course, the Antichrist has his own evil heavy-metal musicians who work precisely the opposite effect.) And if your forces accidentally kill neutral innocents, their spirit drops further: The act of murder actually has a moral dimension in this game.
[The reviewer, Clive Thompson, talks about the Left Behind books] As predicted in Revelation, the savior returns to Earth, chides Satan for defiling the planet (and for inventing Darwinism), then proceeds to slaughter all unbelievers, dissolving their tongues and bursting their bodies like overstuffed sausages. As millions die in transports of agony, the ground becomes a swamp of blood and mud, and some extremely unpleasant things happen to the Jews who refuse to convert. As for the born-again? They stand around watching and cheering.
… as I played the Left Behind game, nothing remotely this ghastly takes place. …as the Left Behind game designers explained to me, they were worried about offending their audience by having too much gore.
Which is the ultimate, and gorgeous, irony of this game. Left Behind fans are apparently more worried about simulated violence in video games than about believing an actual prophecy of the future — endorsed by their spiritual leaders — in which their friendly Jewish, Islamic and atheist neighbors have their tongues dissolved in screaming agony by a fire-eyed Jesus.
Yeah, I started reading Lord of the Rings when I was 16, and it taught me many archaic words (my method of learning English consisted in working through the grammar of Zandvoort and looking up any word I didn’t know, or suspected to have another secondary meaning). Though I remember that I was disappointed at the time when he didn’t have the Rohirrim use “thou/thee” instead of “you”.
A friend once promised to give me the Simarillion, but I never got it. Probably should read it some day..
Back in the day, I also adapted the Tengwar script to German, including special letters for frequent words.. Even taught it to some friends, and we kept writing letters in Tengwar to each other…
Some people have said that Middle Earth is a reference to Middle England which was under attack by modernity, or something like that, and I think some analyses even imply a racist subtext, what with the Easterlings and Southrons. What’s your take on this?
Silisays
Did you mean: floccinaucinihilipilification?
No. I think I can tell an adjective from an abstract noun.
waltonsays
Some people have said that Middle Earth is a reference to Middle England which was under attack by modernity, or something like that, and I think some analyses even imply a racist subtext, what with the Easterlings and Southrons. What’s your take on this?
It’s complicated. Tolkien had a romantic love of the English countryside, and a hatred of industrialization and urbanization. (He grew up, in part, in a hamlet called Sarehole in rural Worcestershire, near Birmingham, and was very upset that it was later swamped by suburban development.) Reflections of this can be seen in his romanticization of rural life in the Shire, and his satire of industrialization in the “Scouring of the Shire” in The Return of the King.
On the other hand, he vehemently denied that any of his works were intended as any sort of political allegory. In the foreword to the 1966 edition, the one we had at home when I was a child, he says:
I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse ‘applicability’ with ‘allegory’; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.
(Which, I think, is why his novels are so much more interesting than C. S. Lewis’, despite their close friendship and their similar subject-matter.)
When asked about it, he always denied the suggestion that there was any sort of political motivation to his having placed Mordor in the East, or that it was meant to be any sort of reflection of real-world political events. He didn’t take much interest in contemporary politics, rarely even reading newspapers; if one had to describe him politically, he would probably be best characterized as a sort of neo-medieval anarcho-primitivist.
As for the Haradrim, I don’t think there was really any racial subtext there, at least on a conscious level. Indeed, although the Haradrim were allies of Mordor, they’re actually portrayed fairly sympathetically when Frodo and Sam run into them briefly in The Two Towers and see them riding “Oliphaunts”.
(It’s certainly nowhere near as egregious as C.S. Lewis’ portrayal of the Calormenes – a thinly-veiled stereotyped parallel of Arab-Islamic culture, where a false god named “Tash” is worshipped – in the Narnia series. Although I suspect that in Lewis’ case it was motivated by religious bigotry against Islam rather than by racism in the strict sense: Calormenes who “convert”, so to speak, are often portrayed as sympathetic characters, such as Aravis in The Horse and his Boy.)
waltonsays
The closest Tolkien ever came to being really political was in a letter he wrote to his son Christopher during WWII:
My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning the abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) — or to ‘unconstitutional’ Monarchy. I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inaminate real of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate! If we could go back to personal names, it would do a lot of good. Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to write it with a capital G or so to refer to people.
Anyway the proper study of Man is anything but Man; and the most improper job of any many, even saints (who at any rate were at least unwilling to take it on), is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity. At least it is done only to a small group of men who know who their master is. The mediaevals were only too right in taking nolo episcopari as the best reason a man could give to others for making him a bishop. Grant me a king whose chief interest in life is stamps, railways, or race-horses; and who has the power to sack his Vizier (or whatever you dare call him) if he does not like the cut of his trousers. And so on down the line. But, of course, the fatal weakness of all that — after all only the fatal weakness of all good natural things in a bad corrupt unnatural world — is that it works and has only worked when all the world is messing along in the same good old inefficient human way.
Pretty close to my own political views, such as they are.
waltonsays
Oh, I missed a little bit out:
If we could get back to personal names, it would do a lot of good. Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to written it with a capital G or so as to refer to people. If people were in the habit of referring to ‘King George’s council, Winston and his gang’, it would go a long way to clearing thought, and reducing the frightful landslide into Theyocracy.
President Obama’s advisers. Newt’s fellow goons. Wall Street’s shills.
Hmm, I kinda like that idea of personal names instead of “government” or whatever. Reminds us that those being spoken of are as finite and mortal as the rest of the human race.
Grumpssays
Oh dear… lapsed again. Hitch has given me an excuse to go on a bender (it doesn’t take much). Anyway I know this is a safe-ish place to do that, so if you horde don’t mind I’ll keep posting links that amuse
Caine is a goddess – so her rats must be religious. (godbots may think she is The Devil, but this still proves my point.)
:blushes: As far as the rats go, I think I’m the Goddess of Tea & Salad.
Back to sculpting.
Silisays
I suspect that in Lewis’ case it was motivated by religious bigotry against Islam rather than by racism in the strict sense: Calormenes who “convert”, so to speak, are often portrayed as sympathetic characters, such as Aravis in The Horse and his Boy.)
So they become white and delightful upon conversion?
My friend bought me a christmas tree for a christmas present! I’m pretty excited. I’ve been wanting a tree but I couldn’t afford to buy one. Now it’s all dressed up and I put up some old stockings next to it :D
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
So they become white and delightful upon conversion?
Not quite. There are two named examples: Aravis in AHAHB and a dude whose name I can’t remember in TLB.
Aravis is introduced when she’s fleeing from an arranged marriage to a (much older) man who is a real douchebucket. She later marries Cor, who is a prince (and later king). Basically, she flees from her Evil Dark Family, meets (by the power of God Aslan) the White Savior of his people and later grows up to be Queen. What I find irritating is that – if the appalling racism of her backstory could somehow be removed – Aravis is a genuinely positive female character. She’s brave, honest, trustworthy, and cares for her friends. Yes, she’s proud and more than a little prickly, but that mostly just removes her from Sue territory (which is where Lucy lives). In my mind, my irritation at Lewis revolves around the fact that he created this awesome character and slapped her with a racist plot. She must overcome her backstory (her nationality, her religion, her people) to be welcomed into the heart and arms of a blond hero. Blech.
The other named character (whose name, of course, I cannot remember) shows up in TLB. He’s thoughtful, kind, and honorable. He doesn’t do anything, just be present as a Good Guy who is accepted despite his origins. IIRC, Lewis was making an explicit Statement™ about how Virtuous Pagans (and yes, this is a technical term) can find salvation. So we’ve got a guy whose plot arc is
1. Be introduced as one of the Bad Guys.
2. Be shown to be thoughtful, intelligent, and nice.
3. Accept Jesus due to LOGIC.
I put my Penicillin microbe plush as the tree topper :D
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
So they become white and delightful upon conversion?
No. That would be the Mormon approach to Native Americans (which is why some Mormons are really big on adopting Native American children and then ensuring that they never see sunshine).
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Ogvorbis,
That’s appalling. I believe that it’s true, and I’m horrified.
I…bleh. I am at a loss for words about how wrong that is on every level.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
Esteleth:
Sorry. Didn’t mean to upset you. I think Lynna may have covered this in one of the Mormom Madness comments.
David Marjanovićsays
Thanks for the explanation of hukou.
Also *hug hug hug*
…Whatever you say ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
But doing things you wouldn’t do sober is the main reason most people drink in the first place, at least where I come from.
This is a travesty. Making a decision sober then getting liquored up to blame it on the booze is wretched and should stop.
Seconded and thirded!
Smallest violin. If you’d rather risk raping someone than being a decent person because of personal issues that’s not a good endorsement of your character.
Also seconded and thirded.
*cough*
Sorry.
*goes to find somewhere else to be a language nerd*
No, stay here, stay here *tugs on the fringes of Esteleth’s skirt* …Do you think “experience” would be a better translation than “experiment”? And, and, and, Goethe turned ars longa, vita brevis into die Kunst ist lang, und kurz ist das Leben – hey, look, a classical chiasma that isn’t there in the original. :-)
H-1 visa holders in the US […] are tied to working for a particular employer and don’t have free access to the labour market
:-o
What the fuck.
He then showed by his involvement in this scandal [link doesn’t work] what kind of morals he was apparently referring to.
Apparently this made him the laughingstock of France, along the lines of: “There he goes, receiving millions and millions in illegal donations – and then he gives all that money to the party! Instead of building a castle for his lover! Those Germanic barbarians will never learn how to live.”
often considered the longest “mainstream” English word
The longest one that isn’t a compound noun. It’s just one noun with lots of affixes.
common-neuter in the Scandinavian languages (except for Norwegian)
Isn’t that more like “except for Standard Nynorsk”?
One thing I find puzzling however is the fact that wife/wijf/viv/Weib is neuter in Germanic (and used to be in Old English). It’s a root exclusive to Germanic, so it’s not from PIE, but under the old animate-inanimate system, one wouldn’t expect this to be neuter?
Huh. I’ll keep that in mind if the recent proposal to introduce constituency votes in Austria ever goes anywhere. (Guess which party the proposal came from!
Probably the SPÖ or ÖVP?
ÖVP (conservatives), of course.
Well, some German state constitutions have compensatory seats (Ausgleichmandate) for the over-hang seats (Überhangmandate). Then, the system becomes acceptable again. I think a pure party list system can often be alienating the parties from their voters, especially in larger countries, so I think the basic idea behind the German election law is a good one.
There is that – but I think members of a country-level body should represent interests, not chunks of land the people on which are somehow assumed to all have the same interests.
I don’t know, does Austria do elections by Land?
Nationwide elections? No.
The WASG, and later the merged party, also combined some other elements not previously associated with the SPD, for instance the West German Communists.
Oh. The KPD already merged into the WASG? I didn’t know that.
the first Green party state governor in the history of Germany (or maybe anywhere in the world? Usually Green parties never get that many votes that they get to lead a government, do they?)
Latvia used to have a Green-led government, but those were rightist greens, not leftist ones, and… and Latvia gets so little attention by the media over here that I don’t know anything more.
low-level work is being outsourced to Vietnam and other SE Asian countries right now, so China is now depending on qualified workers with experience
That went fast. When did low-level work start being outsourced to China? 10 years ago, when China joined the WTO?
there are other building owners who leave their buildings empty
Buildings? Almost the entire city of Ordos (Erduosi) is empty. It was built in the middle of the steppe as part of a real-estate bubble.
– the idea of nation and national sovereignty is also an important concept here. A stereotypical conversation between Germans and Chinese about the TTT:
C: so what would you do if Bavaria suddenly declared its independence from Germany?
G: we would say “Good riddance, maybe the Austrians will take you”.
if the Chinese person in context has lived in Europe for some time, they might then add:
C: well this is such typical European/Western thinking. In China, we have a different idea of national unity. You can’t just leave and split up the country.
The really tragicomical thing about this is that nationalism was invented in Europe in the early 19th century and then exported to the rest of the world.
If pot was as harmful as alcohol, I’d actually have a pretty heavy monkey on my back.
Why a monkey?
Because of a Czech pun (via German, I bet): opít se “to get drunk”, opice “monkey”, c pronounced [ts], so the only difference is the length of the [i].
I heard a great mnemonic about memorising the eight imperialist nations involved in suppressing the Boxer Revolt:
Impressive!
pneumonoultramicroscopic[ ]silicovolcanoconiosis
Two words. A compound adjective followed by a compound noun.
“IIIIH!!!THE COMMIES HAVE TAKEN OVER THE VATICAN!!!!!!”
Yeah, they do that sometimes.
I thought “hvern” just meant “man”, like in the English “were-(wolf)”
Then the h wouldn’t be there. Or it would be in both languages, and werewolves would be wherewolves. Right? Could it have something to do with “who”? … That would fit with the fact that my dialect of German uses wer “who” instead of jemand “some-/anyone”.
I can sing Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau with the correct pronounciation
Can you get the nh right? :-)
French people don’t like to speak English
But if your French pronunciation isn’t near-perfect and fluent enough, they’ll speak English at you anyway. In the French sound system, if you’re out of luck.
or have a French-like noun-adjective order, like attorney general, court martial, fee simple
…where fee, interestingly, is native, and cognate with the Old Norse fé a few comments higher up.
One of the billboards says: “Reason’s Greetings”
Full of win.
David Marjanovićsays
Argh. Stuff from a comment I posted on another thread several hours ago, and an <a> tag that I tried to close with </i>. Let me try again.
================================
Thanks for the explanation of hukou.
Also *hug hug hug*
…Whatever you say ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
*cough*
Sorry.
*goes to find somewhere else to be a language nerd*
No, stay here, stay here *tugs on the fringes of Esteleth’s skirt* …Do you think “experience” would be a better translation than “experiment”? And, and, and, Goethe turned ars longa, vita brevis into die Kunst ist lang, und kurz ist das Leben – hey, look, a classical chiasma that isn’t there in the original. :-)
H-1 visa holders in the US […] are tied to working for a particular employer and don’t have free access to the labour market
:-o
What the fuck.
He then showed by his involvement in this scandal [link doesn’t work] what kind of morals he was apparently referring to.
Apparently this made him the laughingstock of France, along the lines of: “There he goes, receiving millions and millions in illegal donations – and then he gives all that money to the party! Instead of building a castle for his lover! Those Germanic barbarians will never learn how to live.”
often considered the longest “mainstream” English word
The longest one that isn’t a compound noun. It’s just one noun with lots of affixes.
common-neuter in the Scandinavian languages (except for Norwegian)
Isn’t that more like “except for Standard Nynorsk”?
One thing I find puzzling however is the fact that wife/wijf/viv/Weib is neuter in Germanic (and used to be in Old English). It’s a root exclusive to Germanic, so it’s not from PIE, but under the old animate-inanimate system, one wouldn’t expect this to be neuter?
1) Are you sure it’s not from PIE? One of the Tocharian languages had a word kwipe that apparently designated the vulva.
2) I have no idea either… except if “pussy” is the original meaning and happened to be neuter. Hmmm.
3) There’s a possibly vaguely parallel case in that Spanish mujer and Latin mulier are feminine, but look masculine or perhaps neuter.
Huh. I’ll keep that in mind if the recent proposal to introduce constituency votes in Austria ever goes anywhere. (Guess which party the proposal came from!
Probably the SPÖ or ÖVP?
ÖVP (conservatives), of course.
Well, some German state constitutions have compensatory seats (Ausgleichmandate) for the over-hang seats (Überhangmandate). Then, the system becomes acceptable again. I think a pure party list system can often be alienating the parties from their voters, especially in larger countries, so I think the basic idea behind the German election law is a good one.
There is that – but I think members of a country-level body should represent interests, not chunks of land the people on which are somehow assumed to all have the same interests.
I don’t know, does Austria do elections by Land?
Nationwide elections? No.
The WASG, and later the merged party, also combined some other elements not previously associated with the SPD, for instance the West German Communists.
Oh. The KPD already merged into the WASG? I didn’t know that.
the first Green party state governor in the history of Germany (or maybe anywhere in the world? Usually Green parties never get that many votes that they get to lead a government, do they?)
Latvia used to have a Green-led government, but those were rightist greens, not leftist ones, and… and Latvia gets so little attention by the media over here that I don’t know anything more.
low-level work is being outsourced to Vietnam and other SE Asian countries right now, so China is now depending on qualified workers with experience
That went fast. When did low-level work start being outsourced to China? 10 years ago, when China joined the WTO?
there are other building owners who leave their buildings empty
Buildings? Almost the entire city of Ordos (Erduosi) is empty. It was built in the middle of the steppe as part of a real-estate bubble.
– the idea of nation and national sovereignty is also an important concept here. A stereotypical conversation between Germans and Chinese about the TTT:
C: so what would you do if Bavaria suddenly declared its independence from Germany?
G: we would say “Good riddance, maybe the Austrians will take you”.
if the Chinese person in context has lived in Europe for some time, they might then add:
C: well this is such typical European/Western thinking. In China, we have a different idea of national unity. You can’t just leave and split up the country.
The really tragicomical thing about this is that nationalism was invented in Europe in the early 19th century and then exported to the rest of the world.
If pot was as harmful as alcohol, I’d actually have a pretty heavy monkey on my back.
Why a monkey?
Because of a Czech pun (via German, I bet): opít se “to get drunk”, opice “monkey”, c pronounced [ts], so the only difference is the length of the [i].
I heard a great mnemonic about memorising the eight imperialist nations involved in suppressing the Boxer Revolt:
Impressive!
pneumonoultramicroscopic[ ]silicovolcanoconiosis
Two words. A compound adjective followed by a compound noun.
“IIIIH!!!THE COMMIES HAVE TAKEN OVER THE VATICAN!!!!!!”
Yeah, they do that sometimes.
I thought “hvern” just meant “man”, like in the English “were-(wolf)”
Then the h wouldn’t be there. Or it would be in both languages, and werewolves would be wherewolves. Right? Could it have something to do with “who”? … That would fit with the fact that my dialect of German uses wer “who” instead of jemand “some-/anyone”.
I can sing Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau with the correct pronounciation
Can you get the nh right? :-)
French people don’t like to speak English
But if your French pronunciation isn’t near-perfect and fluent enough, they’ll speak English at you anyway. In the French sound system, if you’re out of luck.
or have a French-like noun-adjective order, like attorney general, court martial, fee simple
…where fee, interestingly, is native, and cognate with the Old Norse fé a few comments higher up.
One of the billboards says: “Reason’s Greetings”
Full of win.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Some people have said that Middle Earth is a reference to Middle England which was under attack by modernity, or something like that, and I think some analyses even imply a racist subtext, what with the Easterlings and Southrons. What’s your take on this?
Am I the only one who feels bad for the Orcs? They’re trying to live in a drought-stricken landscape. I mean, did you see those shots of Mordor? No natural resources. A hunter-gatherer, even one as well armed as the orcs are, would be hard pressed to eke out any kind of living there.
Is it any surprise that such a desperate people would resort to raiding and pillaging? Where the hell else are they gonna get their meat? Each other? Oh wait, they already did that.
And no one ever thinks to reach out to them. Does anyone in middle earth go “Hey, that green dude looks kind of hungry. Maybe I could spare him a bite?” No, they just go “EW UGH ORCS KILL THEM!”
The only people who ever try to offer the Orcs anything at all are Sauron and Saruman, is it any wonder that they ended up pledging their allegiance to them?
Well, at least Tolkien was nice enough not to totally extinct the Orcs after Sauron was destroyed.
changeable monikersays
13-screen quotebork! It’s a record!! ;-)
changeable monikersays
*sigh* Obviously, posted before seeing #216. (Hey! 6 cubed!)
Refresh, preview, review, post. I really should know this by now.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
*tugs on the fringes of Esteleth’s skirt*
*notices that David is in her closet, tugging on skirts*
Uh…
Come out of the closet, David!
Do you think “experience” would be a better translation than “experiment”? And, and, and, Goethe turned ars longa, vita brevis into die Kunst ist lang, und kurz ist das Leben – hey, look, a classical chiasma that isn’t there in the original. :-)
Hmm. The Latin experimentum does mean “experiment.” However, the Greek πεῖρα would be better translated as “experience.” So, in answer to your question, maybe. Depends on if you’re using the Greek or the Latin. Probably comes down to nuance, which I’m not great at in either language. The other thing is that the Greek σφαλερή means “fallible,” but the Latin version uses periculosum, which means “dangerous,” a rather different meaning.
I like the Goethe quote. German is not something I know, so I have a question: the Latin ars and the Greek τέχνη do not mean “art” in the sense of fine art (paintings, sculpture, music, etc) but in the sense of “craft” or “study” (this is especially obvious if you can pronounce the Greek – τέχνη is best transliterated as “tekhnê,” which is the root of “technique”).
Does Kunst have this nuance or not?
Ogvorbis:
When it comes to religious people doing stupid and hurtful stuff because God told them too, I’m too jaded to be shocked any more. I’m appalled at myself for not being more upset, but there’s also the part where if I got as upset as it deserves, I’d always be in the corner weeping.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Coyote,
It’s actually even worse than that for the Orcs. Orcs were what resulted when Elves, captured by Morgoth (Sauron’s boss), were tortured, mutilated, and bred until Orcs resulted. This is said at some point during the movies (IIRC, Saruman is bragging about how he’s improved on things by crossing Orcs with humans to make Uruk-Hai), but it barely comes up in the book (all that stuff is found in The Silmarillion). Which simultaneously does three things in my mind:
1. Gives a little bit more depth to the statement “Elves hate Orcs and want to destroy them” by implying that the Elves are revolted by the Orc’s origins and see killing Orcs as a sort of mercy for the Orcs.
2. Implies that the Orcs are not inherently evil, but are pitiable and deserve help and support.
3. Lowers further the standing of Morgoth et al – they’re not just power-hungry douchecanoes bent on world domination, they also torture and mutilate people for the evulz.
IIRC, it is canon that some Orcs managed to escape from Mordor and are redeemed (in the sense of not being evil anymore). I wish this had been included in the main text of the books and in the movies, as the stark black:white balance that comes across is both too simplistic and has all sorts of bad implications.
changeable monikersays
David M: “Almost the entire city of Ordos (Erduosi) is empty.”
Esteleth: I’ve always wondered HOW they crossbred orcs and humans. I mean, it seems fairly straightforward at first, but LOTR never really goes into detail about the reproductive habits of the orcs. (IIRC, the scenes in FOTR where the Uruk Hai are born out of slimy cocoons in the ground was taken from other non-Tolkien sources, and The Hobbit explicitly mentions Gollum preying on ‘Orc Children’).
I personally assume that Orcs reproduce sexually like any other primate species. But then that leaves the question of which half was the ‘father’ of the Uruk-hai. Luckily, since Uruk means Orc and when naming a hybrid the ‘male’ half of the name comes first, I think we have our answer there.
I wonder what female orcs look like. I bet they’re more attractive than you’d think.
Dhorvath, OMsays
Janine,
I missed the first link. I don’t quite know what to make of Joseph Spence, but I did not know that human voices make those sounds. Fascinating.
___
Sailor,
My mouth gets shredded by hard candies, suckers and such are right out, but every once in a while I can’t resist the Skittles and I pay for it later. Oh well, they are bad for me any way I look at it.
___
But yeah, it includes the D&D version of the origin of the half-orc race…
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Coyote,
Yeah, the oozing cocoons that Orcs “hatch” from irritated me. After that, the argument I had with someone over whether or not Ents reproduce by pollination or by sex (i.e. if they’re walking plants or animals that look planty) was downright refreshing.
Since Orc children are referred to in canon, I agree that it is probably primate-style sexual reproduction. WRT whether it is male human:female Orc or the other way, I’d argue in favor of an uneven breeding pattern, where they’re more Orc than human at the end. After all, the text says that Saruman wanted to introduce a single human trait into Orcs (the ability to withstand sunlight), and Uruk-hai are explictly described as a kind of Orc, not as a true half (compare the peredhel). So, I’d guess that Orcs (both male and female) were bred with humans (both female and male) and the resulting offspring (probably post-cull) were bred back into Orcs.
I have no idea what female Orcs look like. I did hear a theory that since male and female Elves resemble each other so strongly (i.e. Elven sexual dimorphism seems to be lower than human), maybe this trait remains in Orcs – so the random Orcs we see may be women. I’m not sure if I give this much credence, but it is possible.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Ben,
chief grukgruk frankly not want dwell on that very much.
John Moralessays
A proper time to again mention Mary Gentle’s best work (IMO): Grunts!.
changeable monikersays
Here are some strange things one can do with a voice:
Hi, all. I’m’a be scarce around here for the holidays: I’m not going away (mad or otherwise); just taking a bit of the rest cure. Between earthquakes, hurricanes, treemageddon, insanely irresponsible colleagues at work, cancer diagnoses, and grad school apps, it’s been a truly draining fall for me, the Lovely Bride™, and the Brilliant Daughter®… it’s the reason we’re not traveling for the holidays as we had planned.
Anyway, before I go, I wanted to wish everyone happy holidays, and thank you all for the wonderfully kind and appropriate responses to my weirdly good news/bad news news.
I completely messed up this beanie I was trying to crochet. So now it’s going to be a pillow!
consciousness razorsays
I like the Goethe quote. German is not something I know, so I have a question: the Latin ars and the Greek τέχνη do not mean “art” in the sense of fine art (paintings, sculpture, music, etc) but in the sense of “craft” or “study” (this is especially obvious if you can pronounce the Greek – τέχνη is best transliterated as “tekhnê,” which is the root of “technique”).
Does Kunst have this nuance or not?
Sure, why not? I suppose it depends on which German you ask. I think this “nuance” is a distinction without a difference. They refer to the same thing. If there is such a thing as a “fine technique” or “fine craft” which is not “fine art,” or vice versa, I don’t know what it is.
I disagree that it’s a distinction without a difference. The idea of the nuance is that you can be an expert in technique without necessarily being able to produce original art works. And vice versa, it’s also possible to make great art without being a full master of the techniques.
Dhorvath, OMsays
CM,
Very interesting. I remember hearing about such years ago, but not actually hearing it. The joys of the internet means I can remedy such.
I’ve worked with Tuvalu throat singers. And players of hurdy gurdys, sackbuts, & viola de gamdas. I had a very diverse career in sound. And I haven’t done that for 15 years. Jeebus, I’m old! How the fuck did that happen?
Dhorvath, OMsays
Sailor,
I should think survival.
Silisays
Yeah, the oozing cocoons that Orcs “hatch” from irritated me.
Cloning. Like the bottled babies in Brave New World.
Rey Fox: That looks way too idealized and ‘human’ for my liking. She could at least have some bigger fangs, and maybe some biceps.
Sili: Thanks, I never thought of the ‘cloning’ angle before. Makes more sense than Orcs just springing out of holes in the ground.
Esteleth: That sounds plausible at least. I never noticed the ‘reduced sexual dimorphism in Elves’ thing before, but it’s kind of obvious now that you point it out. Name one elf with facial hair, after all.
I always liked Gothmog. He rose above his disability and made something of himself. At least until Aragorn chopped his one good arm off and decapitated him (in the extended edition). I bet he had a cool backstory.
Regarding the reproduction of Ents (whether they’re animal like plants or plantlike animals): I seem to recall Treebeard talking about Ents that become ‘treeish’ and Huorns (I think? Trees, at any rate) becoming ‘Entish’. Plus the whole discussion of the Entwives. But figure this: If they could reproduce with pollen, then why were they going extinct? Botany isn’t my bag, but doesn’t Pollen carry on the wind for quite some distance?
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
On the other hand…. what would Ent-sex look like? I have a feeling they do it standing up.
I like the Goethe quote. German is not something I know, so I have a question: the Latin ars and the Greek τέχνη do not mean “art” in the sense of fine art (paintings, sculpture, music, etc) but in the sense of “craft” or “study” […].
Does Kunst have this nuance or not?
It covers the entire spectrum from fine art to “the art of government/warfare/whatever” and “that’s not a science, it’s an art”. And künstlich means “artificial”, as does the prefix Kunst- much of the time.
BTW, polytonic Greek FTW. :-)
When it comes to religious people doing stupid and hurtful stuff because God told them too, I’m too jaded to be shocked any more. I’m appalled at myself for not being more upset, but there’s also the part where if I got as upset as it deserves, I’d always be in the corner weeping.
Same here.
I did not know that human voices make those sounds
Reminds me of a moment of language nerdery. :-) When I introduced the voiced lateral alveolar fricative (sound files accessible from here) to my sister, she was astounded and said “but that’s not even possible!”
Gob help me, I just imagined what entish reproductive organs look like.
I think it’s something of a mistake to look for any veiled hint of anything sexual anywhere in LOTR. There’s poignant romantic love – the tale of Beren and Lúthien, for instance, or Arwen and Aragorn, or Sam and Rosie Cotton – but sex doesn’t seem to have crossed Tolkien’s mind even once in the course of writing it. (And even in the sphere of romantic love, the soppy-romantic-soft-focus scenes in the movie with Arwen and Aragorn don’t have any counterpart in the book; those who wrote the screenplay evidently decided there needed to be a little more romance.)
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Walton: Yeah, I know. Tolkien left it up to guys like me to imagine the rest. It was very clever of him.
I can’t help it. My mind ALWAYS ‘goes there’.
John Moralessays
Walton, presumably Sam and Rosie’s thirteen children were virgin births? :)
John Moralessays
(Plowman Samgee)
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
Tolkien left it up to guys like me to imagine the rest. It was very clever of him.
What amazed me the most in the movies was that, though Tolkien is sparse on details of dress, faces, locations, scenery, etc, save for Riendell, Middle Earth looked much like I saw it through his writings.
=====
Football announcers are hilarious when they try to sound edjumicated. “Too many penalties make the head coach implode internally.”
Damn. I linked to the page, not the image. Scroll down a little bit to see it. Er, them. Them. yeah.
waltonsays
Walton, presumably Sam and Rosie’s thirteen children were virgin births? :)
That’s the thing about LOTR, and many of the books of a similar era I read as a child*… people fall in love, get married, and have children, but there’s no hint of sex anywhere. It’s just an aspect of life that isn’t depicted, in the same way that bodily functions aren’t depicted. This is partly because it was aimed at young people, of course (albeit less so than The Hobbit, which is explicitly a children’s book). And it is, after all, a product of 1940s and 50s England, and Tolkien himself was a devout Catholic and a morally-conservative character.
(*I learned to read very early in life,** and was reading Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Enid Blyton and the like around the time I started school. I often think this shaped my view of the world rather too much. Along with TV shows like Babar, to which I credit, in part, my lifelong monarchism.)
(**My freakishly-good reading only partly made up for the fact that I was really, really, really useless at most things involving advanced motor skills, from sports to drawing to tying my shoelaces. Even learning to write was a struggle; I could type before I could write by hand. I’ve often suspected I have undiagnosed dyspraxia. But I digress.)
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
BTW Thanks a lot John Morales, now I can’t stop picturing Sam and Rosie doing the dirty monkey dance.
Walton: On a more serious note, I do find it tiresome when books go the other route and explicitly describe sex *cough Auel cough*. It’s about as interesting as I imagine explicit depictions of “other bodily functions” as you put it would be in a novel.
Some things are just better left to the reader’s imagination. For instance, I imagine taking a dump must have really sucked when Sam and Frodo were climbing that wall to Shelob’s lair. Though with all that lembas bread, they probably didn’t have to poop much. And it’s not exactly easy to find leaves to wipe with in Mordor.
I really have to find something else to think about. This is what lack of sleep does to me.
In fairness, Cirdan’s beard was “rare for elves”, so the reduced sexual dimorphism claim still holds.
A slight digression while nuance is on the table – what do people think of the distinction between sexism and misogyny? I think that there is one – “sexism” is the sea we’re all swimming in; we can’t avoid it although we can work in our various ways to reduce or ameliorate it. But “misogyny” seems more virulent than that – actively rather than unthinkingly supporting sexism. So in those terms, a person who advocates the education and empowerment of girls and women and the eradication of sexism is probably not misogynist, but they may well still be quite unthinkingly sexist. What do you think?
consciousness razorsays
I often think this shaped my view of the world rather too much. Along with TV shows like Babar, to which I credit, in part, my lifelong monarchism.
There is help out there if you need it. One does not need to resign oneself to a lifetime of monarchism and related debauchery. Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Alethea: I never thought about that before.
Thing is, I’m not sure your definition of pure misogyny works. Most outright misogynists I’ve known had no real idea they were misogynists deep down. I’ve met one or two that were so bad, they had to have some idea that they hated women, but they were thankfully kinda rare in my experience.
But this may be better left to people who know what they’re talking about better than me.
@walton, not because it was aimed at children. Because anything else was “racy”, and clearly inviting prurience and probably censorship. I mean look at Lady Chatterly’s Lover – not such a terribly smutty book in modern terms, but observe how much even in that so-scandalous text is elided and hidden. Even Lord Chatterly’s rather plot-relevant impotence must be inferred.
I grew up on the tail end of that era – my parents were teens in the late 40s – and any reference to sex was considered inappropriate. Even the word “pregnant” was hushed and euphemised, and you certainly wouldn’t explain why that lady was so fat! Or dare to let such a thing be seen on TV. Things have changed a great deal more than most young people recognise.
consciousness razorsays
Alethea H. Claw:
We apparently disagree about something concerning the nature of art, but I’m not sure what. I don’t think originality is what constitutes the difference between “fine art” and “craft” or “technique.” I don’t think one can be an expert technically without demonstrating originality, or be original without having known or discovered some technical means to do so.
I think that there is one – “sexism” is the sea we’re all swimming in; we can’t avoid it although we can work in our various ways to reduce or ameliorate it. But “misogyny” seems more virulent than that – actively rather than unthinkingly supporting sexism. So in those terms, a person who advocates the education and empowerment of girls and women and the eradication of sexism is probably not misogynist, but they may well still be quite unthinkingly sexist. What do you think?
Hmm, I think “sexism” refers generally to prejudice against women as well as men, or to such distinctions between them. “Misogyny” also carries with it false assumptions about male gender roles, but taken literally it refers primarily to the false and harmful effect of prejudices against women. I guess both primarily harm women more than men, so it’s not always clear to me whether one term is more appropriate than the other.
Walton, thank you for your analysis of Tolkien re Middle England. Since we got a LOTR discussion going: I’ve often heard that LOTR has one of the biggest potholes ever in the history of literature: namely, why didn’t Gandalf just fly to Mount Doom on a giant eagle together with Frodo and have him throw the ring into it under supervision?
The longest one that isn’t a compound noun. It’s just one noun with lots of affixes.
Works for me. BTW, someplace else you count a compound noun as two nouns. That’s not necessarily correct, but not wrong either. The problem of wordhood is one of the hairiest issues in linguistics, after all..
Isn’t that more like “except for Standard Nynorsk”?
My bokmål grammar would like to disagree with you:
en dag/dagen v. ei avis/avisa. However, in bokmål feminine nouns CAN be construed as masculine: en avis/avisen. This would even be true for nouns such as jente.
Also, some Swedish dialects have preserved the feminine gender. I’ve also read on the Pfft that Finland Swedish has too, but have yet to come across an official source that confirms that. Maybe someone here knows?
Are you sure it’s not from PIE? One of the Tocharian languages had a word kwipe that apparently designated the vulva.
Sorry, imprecise usage on my part: my sources agree that the Germanic word is “of uncertain origin”, but do note the possible connection to the Tocharian word.
Nationwide elections? No.
What I meant: do you use national party lists, or party lists state by state?
Oh. The KPD already merged into the WASG? I didn’t know that.
The KPD was outlawed in 1968. Then the DKP sprang into existence. Now, it seems that some of the DKP members have been running as PDS candidates, and then later as Left Party candidates, so my earlier claim about DKP people being part of the WASG movement might be strenuous. (There is talk of a electoral law reform barring people from running as candidates for a party they’re not members of, I suspect the CSU behind this move).
ABRIDGED HISTORY OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY IN GERMANY:
1869-1890: Social Democratic movement starts in Germany, founding of SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany) in 1890-
1919: KPD (Communist Party of Germny) splits off of SPD
after 1945, in the two Germanies:
East: 1946: forcible union of SPD and KPD to form the SED (Socialist Unity Party).
1989: SPD re-founded in the East, SED renames itself SED-PDS (Socialist Unity Party-Party of Democratic Socialism), later the SED part is dropped, so the party name becomes PDS.
West:
1968: KPD outlawed by Constitutional Court
1968: DKP (German Communist Party) founded
Reunited Germany:
Agenda 2010 policy, proposed by SPD-Green government in 2003, sparks protest movement, which then consolidates itself in the form of the WASG in 2004. WASG was first just an association, in 2005 a party of the same is founded.
In 2007, the PDS and WASG merge, ultimately settling on the name Die Linke (The Left)
Farsi misogyny
Just wanted to add, that the lawsuit actually involved immigrants from Afghanistan, not Iran. Dari is one of the languages of Afghanistan and can be regarded as a dialect of Farsi.
Then the h wouldn’t be there. Or it would be in both languages, and werewolves would be wherewolves. Right? Could it have something to do with “who”? … That would fit with the fact that my dialect of German uses wer “who” instead of jemand “some-/anyone”.
Yeah, the vowel was off too.
“wer” instead of “jemand” can be found in colloquial standard German too. Either as “irgendwer” or just “wer”.
Yeah, it’s something I’m thinking about and this is tentative. Not the derailing version – that “misogynists hate woman but I love the laydeez” waaarrrgarble – but whether there is still a meaningful distinction. Not all sexist assholes are MRAs, some are just privilege-blinded. Not all sexists want to be sexists.
oh and the borked link regarding Helmut Kohl’s so-called new morals was this
The Flick Affair was a German political scandal of the early 1980s relating to political contributions by the Flick company, a major German conglomerate, to various political parties “for the cultivation of the political landscape”. Otto Graf Lambsdorff, then minister for economic affairs, was forced to resign in 1984 after being accused of accepting bribes from Flick.
The magazine Der Spiegel was involved in the uncovering of the scandal.
This, from the English-language Pfft, doesn’t go into much detail. But Helmut Kohl back then employed the amnesia defence, claiming not remember many details about how Flick had given so many illicit contribution to his party.
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Here are some strange things one can do with a voice:
I think the problem is that sexism and misogyny are often used synonymously in everyday speech. Insisting on establishing precise distinctions between the two might be problematic as long as there is no agreement in the linguistic community to do so.
It might be better to use qualifiers such as “conscious”, “implicit” etc in order to avoid flame wars about word definitions.
John Moralessays
pelamun:
why didn’t Gandalf just fly to Mount Doom on a giant eagle together with Frodo and have him throw the ring into it under supervision?
Duh — because if he’d been so bloody obvious, Sauron would have noticed and stymied the attempt (and captured the ring and WON).
they are often used synonymously when referring to “prejudice against women”, irrespective of intent.
John Moralessays
Inuit throat singing
Siberian throat singing
Tibetan throat singing
Bah. I can do throat-clearing.
(Uuughhrrhhhghhr)
'Tis Himself, OMsays
Brother Ogvorbis, OM #257
What amazed me the most in the movies was that, though Tolkien is sparse on details of dress, faces, locations, scenery, etc, save for Ri[v]endell, Middle Earth looked much like I saw it through his writings.
I didn’t like Peter Jackson’s idea of Rivendell either. The place is in the mountains. As depicted, it would be impossible to heat during the winter.
OTOH, Hobbiton, Edoras, and Minas Tirith looked just as I’d imagined them.
this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have the right to draw distinctions like this. Also in academic disciplines, terms have often more precise meanings, but they can differ depending on the approach etc (linguistics is notorious for this, so you always have to check first what the author means by “subject” etc).
But if used in a more colloquial context like here, for instance, one should be aware that different people use the term differently, and probably adapt one’s use accordingly.
well Gandalf was a Maia too, didn’t he have some kind of cloaking device (oops, wrong genre).
But Sauron couldn’t have done much? Did the Orcs even have anti-air units? Why couldn’t you steer your eagle way above the clouds until you were directly above Mt. Doom and then fly down in a swift motion before Sauron ever knew what hit him?
Pelamun, you have a good point. What I’m wondering is partly if there is a usage distinction that I’m not aware of, and partly if there should be.
Also, it’s quite clear in the book that the eagles could only go in once the ring was destroyed and Sauron’s control had lapsed. Maybe not so clear in the movie?
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
Sam Adams Infinium… meh
John Moralessays
Pelamum, the Eye (piercing all shadows) had the Winged Nazgûl in reserve. Sheesh!
consciousness razorsays
Consciousness razor: there’s skill and there’s vision.
“Vision” in this is sense is a skill.
I didn’t like Peter Jackson’s idea of Rivendell either.
Same here. It reminded me of a Michael Parkes calendar without even the consolation of cartoonish sexuality.
OTOH, Hobbiton, Edoras, and Minas Tirith looked just as I’d imagined them.
I was sort of disappointed in Minas Tirith. It looked kind of small, compared to what I was thinking.
Hobbiton was sufficiently small. :)
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Regarding the eagles: I assumed it was because they were busy doing, you know, eagle stuff.
Maybe it was their mating season?
Pelamun: Anti air units? Maybe not…. but they did have their own ‘Air Force’. Yeah, the eagles flew in and handily kicked their asses, but maybe they couldn’t do that until, as Alethea said, Sauron’s control had lapsed.
What I’m wondering is partly if there is a usage distinction that I’m not aware of, and partly if there should be.
A cursory look at Wikipedia suggests that different scholars use different meanings, I didn’t find an easy way to summarise these differences. Well if a speaker thinks there should be a difference, they will use the words accordingly. If it is accepted by other speakers, then it might catch on.
Also, it’s quite clear in the book that the eagles could only go in once the ring was destroyed and Sauron’s control had lapsed. Maybe not so clear in the movie?
ah, thanks for pointing that out. Yeah the greatest plothole ever meme is usually mentioned regarding the movies. I did read the books, but it’s been a long time ago. Maybe I should re-read them…
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
why didn’t Gandalf just fly to Mount Doom on a giant eagle together with Frodo and have him throw the ring into it under supervision?
Because then there wouldn’t have been a reason to blather on for hundreds and hundreds of pages about complete irrelevancies like Tom Bombadil. Sorry, I know, great epic story, shaped fantasy as we know it, unparalleled worldbuilding, but I still think the man seriously needed a merciless editor.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
re: Sexism and Misogyny
I view them as different things (keep in mind, this is only my useless internepinion (and I am watching NFL football as I write and try to think)).
See, I realize that I am sexist. The socialization of school, scouts, playing football, college, the army, you name it, they all play into me being sexist. Sexism is so ingrained in our society that we are all, whethere conscious of it or not, sexist. Which means that I must be on my toes in any situation to make sure that my bias as a sexist male does not come out in any way. And I try. I really do. And I am occasionally successful.
Misogynists, however, revel in the sexism of western culture. Whether through anger or fear, misogyny uses insults, threats, shaming, and silencing to intentionally and deliberately remove women from the situation, whatever that situation is. In extreme situations, the observer wonders if the misogynist even views females as fully human.
This sounds rather harsh, right? I think I have evidence for it.
Again, I recognize that I am sexist. When, whether through ignorance, laziness or carelessness, I say, or write, or do something which is sexist, I really do hope that someone points it out. I may or may not agree with my critic who views my action as sexist, but I will openly entertain the idea that I am wrong. I recognize that it is not a personal attack, but rather an attempt to make society more inclusive.
A misogynist, however, views any attempt to point out sexist behaviour on their part as an attack, as an attempt to feminize him. He will then dig in his heals and, even when confronted with personal stories, peer-reviewed studies, articles in academic journals, and the opinions of those with professional or academic credentials, will refuse to even entertain the possibility that he might be wrong. For a perfect example of this behaviour, think about what happens when the word ‘twat’ is used as an insult — with a probability approaching one, the argument from Engicism will show up.
So, basically, I view sexism as a societal problem which can be ameliorated through education, engagement, correction where applicable, and discussion. Misogyny is more of a personal problem and is highly resistant to education, engagement, correction and discussion. Which is unfortunate as it does have widespread societal implications such as the continuation of rape culture.
that makes sense. It also comes from the fact that misogyny ORIGINALLY meant “hatred of women”. So that has left a strong after-effect with many.
But, there are some who also use “misogyny” in a way like “prejudice against women”, and that can be unintentional too.
I just notice that some MRAs use the etymology attempt in order to derail threads, in what which could be a called a silencing technique. Which is why I think it’s fine to draw distinctions like you do, but not expect others to have the same. In doubt, use explicit qualifiers so no misunderstandings arise.
SO said that it’s apparently a ‘fact’ that Sagan was high when filming cosmos (fact being it’s on Wikipedia), anyone have confirmation?
*yes I know I can look it up but it also helps build conversation here*
consciousness razorsays
hundreds and hundreds of pages about complete irrelevancies like Tom Bombadil
“I might put it this way. The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom with consent against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were, taken ‘a vow of poverty’, renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the questions of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless…
It is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war… the view of Rivendell seems to be that it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron.”
ibyeasays
On politics:
A new poll on the views of Americans on class inequality has been released and there is something that really bothers me. Apparently, most are willing to agree with the goals and views of the Occupy movement, but don’t agree with the tactics. I wonder how is Occupy movement supposed to protest then? No matter what they do, they will always be branded as offensive and too aggressive. Not only that, if they don’t protest, how are they supposed to change the country? They think the country can be changed by talking nicely?
Phew, I had to get this out of my system.
consciousness razorsays
SO said that it’s apparently a ‘fact’ that Sagan was high when filming cosmos (fact being it’s on Wikipedia), anyone have confirmation?
I was high for quite a long time there, but I don’t really recall Sagan being there. Whether being high is a good thing, it’s made-up bullshit, the burden of proof being on them which they have apparently failed to meet. Them’s the facts.
It seems to be the same pattern the Civil Rights movement had. Don’t be discouraged, such poll numbers may be expected.
janinesays
A proper time to again mention Mary Gentle’s best work (IMO): Grunts!.
I am up for a game of orcball. Who shall be volunteered to provide the ball?
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
So I was listening to WAMC (Albany NY public radio; it’s pretty awesome that I can still listen even 4 hours away) and I caught this gem by Lou and Peter Berrymore (a wonderful folky songwriting duo, if you’ve never heard of them):
All of our bedrooms are gilded and burnished
With every conceivable luxury furnished
Like Tiffany cauldrons of custom made candy
And lead crystal snifters of hundred year brandy
With eiderdown pillows of thousand count satin
On twelve poster beds with a view of Manhattan
A soothing and comforting sight, SO
Why do you people keep asking us,
How We Can Sleep at Night?
2.
We’ve diamonds the size of split peas on our slippers
And nightshirts of lace with titanium zippers
Security guards always lurking here somewhere
And shrinks who descend at the hint of a nightmare
With calmative drugs at the snap of a finger
And classical chamber musicians who linger
All much to the sandman’s delight, SO
Why do you people keep asking us,
How We Can Sleep at Night?
(it goes on in that vein…)
BRIDGE:
If ever our government lay down the sword
Creating a dip in the Dow
We might need our nightcaps more liberally poured
But everything’s booming right now
6.
And thanks to the coming of privitization
They’ll no longer nick us for free education
We won’t have to spring for the old and the lazy
Or pop for the health of the wretched and crazy
We’re calmer today than we’ve been thruout history
So why you would ask us this now is a mystery
We don’t get it try as we might, WHY?
Why do you people keep asking us,
How We Can Sleep at Night?
I’m just very sad that there’s no video recording available of that particular song. Here is another video of them performing, in case you want to get an impression. It’s also quite a funny song: “Why am I painting the living room?”
waltonsays
@walton, not because it was aimed at children. Because anything else was “racy”, and clearly inviting prurience and probably censorship. I mean look at Lady Chatterly’s Lover – not such a terribly smutty book in modern terms, but observe how much even in that so-scandalous text is elided and hidden. Even Lord Chatterly’s rather plot-relevant impotence must be inferred.
Yeah, I read a few chapters of Lady Chatterley’s Lover on Wikisource once. The sexual content is very mild, by modern standards. I suspect some of its original shock-value stemmed from the open transgression of class boundaries (the lady of the house sleeping with the gamekeeper), rather than the actual sex. It’s interesting how standards change so much over time.
Though, to be fair, the 1960 obscenity trial in England was really a last gasp of the establishment; I gather that most of the public at the time thought the prosecution was an utter farce. Prosecuting counsel’s question to the jury as to whether it was “a book one would want one’s wife or servants to read” was, reportedly, widely mocked.
The Obscene Publications Act 1959, passed the previous year, represented a major liberalization of the law from the old common-law position, given that it required the prosecution to prove that a work was liable to “deprave and corrupt the morals” of those likely to read it, and had an express exception for works of artistic value. It was still rather silly, but a huge improvement on the status quo ante. After Lady Chatterley, later prosecutions under the Act were mainly of much more controversial texts – like the Little Red Schoolbook (which eventually reached the European Court of Human Rights in Handyside v United Kingdom) and Schoolkids Oz. (John Mortimer QC, a hero of mine and the creator of Rumpole of the Bailey, appeared for the defence in many of the great obscenity trials.) These days, with the Internet, the Act is pretty much a dead letter, thankfully.
Of course, in the US, the most famous obscenity trial was of Joyce’s Ulysses. Again, the offending chapter is now available on Wikisource, and is again remarkably mild – just a rather unpleasant description of a man masturbating. (It’s one of the few parts of Ulysses that is actually comprehensible; I’ve never really understood why people like that book so much. But YMMV.)
waltonsays
Sally: I don’t know the song, but adore the lyrics. Once I actually get some new damned headphones that actually work, I’ll have to listen to it.
Apart from anything else, I’ve always had a distinct appreciation for the art of rhyme. It’s one of the principal reasons why I love Gilbert and Sullivan (who else but Gilbert could come up with rhyming “caravanserai” with “wards in Chancery”?), Tom Lehrer, and Roy Zimmerman, all of whom are masters of this particular craft.
(Conversely, bad rhyme is incredibly frustrating. I get the occasional overwhelming impulse to inform Kid Rock that, no, “bottle” does not rhyme with “tomorrow”. It just doesn’t. Not even close.)
John Moralessays
Walton,
The sexual content is very mild, by modern standards. I suspect some of its original shock-value stemmed from the open transgression of class boundaries (the lady of the house sleeping with the gamekeeper), rather than the actual sex.
No shit.
It’s interesting how standards change so much over time.
Well, I think you’d like Lou and Peter Berrymore then, Walton. I’ve seen them perform a couple of times, at the Old Songs Festival in Altamont NY (near Albany). They are quite entertaining, and super lefty to boot–apparently they have played for some Occupy protests near them.
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Also, why would you subject yourself to Kid Rock? I am sorry that you had to experience that.
@Ing
Your comment actually discouraged me a bit more. Because it suggests people aren’t learning anything from history. I feel like the lessons from that era were wasted on them. :(
'Tis Himself, OMsays
walton #301
It’s one of the few parts of Ulysses that is actually comprehensible; I’ve never really understood why people like that book so much.
Because it’s supposed to be great literature and meaningful and significant and stuff like that. At least Ulysses has its moments of coherency. Finnegan’s Wake is unintelligible. But it’s loved by English Lit professors so it must be good. Or so they say.
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Yo Kristinc, I paid for that pattern, but it is taking a while to process the payment… would you object to sharing? You can email it to sally lichtenstein 303 at yahoo dot com. (all one word, no spaces or underlines)
Fuck, I’m impatient.
waltonsays
Also, why would you subject yourself to Kid Rock? I am sorry that you had to experience that.
I didn’t do so voluntarily… it was played at me over gym speakers a few times, back in England. (Back when I was actually in the habit of regular exercise. *sigh*)
And now I should be studying, since I have an exam on Monday in International Humanitarian Law (otherwise known as Law of Armed Conflict) which I am going to fail. I’ve got to the point where I’m so certain of impending failure that I’m now doing anything I can to avoid actually working, including arguing about male circumcision.
(I’m also forcing myself to read a 2002 Bush administration Office of Legal Counsel memorandum, in which the author argues, inter alia, (a) that no part of the Geneva Conventions applies to the war against al-Qaeda, since it’s neither a war against another state party under Common Article 2 nor an “armed conflict not of an international character” under Common Article 3, and (b) that even if the Conventions did apply, the President’s Article II powers as Commander-in-Chief give him the constitutional right to ignore international humanitarian law entirely if he wants to. It’s probably the only time I’ve been studying for an exam and have found myself saying “What a fucking stupid argument” out loud. Thankfully, the Supreme Court later rejected both of these arguments in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, although it did affirm the President’s power to detain “unlawful combatants” indefinitely in military detention.)
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Sally: sent!
Why does FTB think I was logged out? Odd.
I discovered pannetone yesterday. Chocolate-covered pannetone to be exact, at Trader Joes, but the price for the plain one was much more reasonable than for the chocolate covered. I can melt a little milk chocolate and drizzle it over some chunks of the plain kind. I had imagined disappointing-raisin-bread dryness, but it’s so delicious. I need to bake more with candied peel, I really do.
John Moralessays
Walton,
(Back when I was actually in the habit of regular exercise. *sigh*)
Because I do love you*: do yourself a favour, and resume it.
Please.
(I am certain that this is not something you will ever regret)
—
* I am being unironic, and literal. (But not sexual)
kristinc, pannetone is the bomb. Try it toasted with a little butter or chocolate on it. There’s a chocolate chip pannetone on the market, but I can’t remember where my brother got it. That was amazingly (possibly sinfully?) delicious.
juliansays
Excuse me, SallyStrange. You seem knowledgeable about this music stuff. Do you know any bands with a sound similar to Mumford and Sons?
Makes sense to me, Brother OgVorbis. I take the point that we can’t force the usage but I think it’s a useful distinction. Perhaps more for fellow-activist or academic use than in the big arguments – which is why I posted here, for feedback. (Activist? Moi? TBH, much more slacktivist these days.)
In other news, I have just come back from the last minute Xmas top-up shopping, where I bought some Turkish ceramics for a mere 5-10x the price they were in Turkey. And succumbed to the lure of fancy face-goop and just a couple more books that I had to have. At least I bought more books for presents than for me. And fancy face goop is pretty much my only girly vice.
waltonsays
There is help out there if you need it. One does not need to resign oneself to a lifetime of monarchism and related debauchery. Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Awwwww… but monarchy is so much fun. It’s the only political issue or institution I actually enjoy discussing any more, and the only one that makes me feel warm and fuzzy and comforted. Everything else is so depressingly awful, and the more I learn about social realities, the worse it seems.
(If I ever cease to be a monarchist, I will turn into something rather like Marvin from Hitchhiker’s Guide. Or Eeyore.)
John Moralessays
Walton, you like monarchy… if you ever want to try military SF, try reading the Honorverse series by David Weber — it’s as pro-monarchical as it gets.
(A Horatio Hornblower homage ripoff (the protagonist is a woman, Honor Stephanie Alexander-Harrington), and much of the ouvre is available for free from Baen Free Library)
It’s the only political issue or institution I actually enjoy discussing any more,
I’ve always been able to enjoy the personal (?) side of politics as a spectator sport. Who’s up, who’s down. You can follow the “leagues” in different countries, and place your “bets” on Election Day. Especially the US, with all its concurrent election. I still fondly remember the time when George Clooney’s dad was running for office.
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Billy Bragg & Wilco?
The Decemberists?
I’ll have to listen to more than one of their songs (which I have now heard twice, it is quite lovely and heartfelt).
It’s not a style of music I’m most conversant with. What are the qualities in them that you’re seeking to find in other musicians?
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
(If I ever cease to be a monarchist, I will turn into something rather like Marvin from Hitchhiker’s Guide. Or Eeyore.)
What’s wrong with that? I like Marvin and Eeyore. At least they aren’t monarchists. I say go for it.
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
“The Cave” by Mumford of Sons is now reminding me of David Gray. Although I feel iffy about the music video. It seems to be making some sort of statement about colonialism. I haven’t really taken in any of the words besides the chorus. I heard an interview with them on NPR a while back (I listen to NPR on the daily) so I’ve heard a few of these songs before. It’s good music. Thanks for asking. Even if my recs aren’t the hippest, I learned something.
SallyStrange, Spawn of Cthulhusays
Also, Iron and Wine comes up first after M&S when I started a M&S station. Iron and Wine has also been a fairly frequent contributor to my Toubab Krewe station so I can safely say they’re pretty awesome.
cicely, Disturber of the Peassays
Why couldn’t you steer your eagle way above the clouds until you were directly above Mt. Doom and then fly down in a swift motion before Sauron ever knew what hit him?
Air-borne Nazgûl. With the probability of additional “fell beasts” flappin’ around unridden, since I’m betting they kept a breeding population of ’em.
–
I put tinsel on my christmas tree. The cats wont stop eating it :/
This is why we stopped putting tinsel on the trees. While our cats always successfully achieved throughput, I’ve read horrible stories of cats who required emergency surgical intervention, at very high prices, to get it out of there.
–
chigau (違う)says
It’s barely freezing, snowing and the cat is on the heating pad.
chigau (違う)says
Bill Dauphin
Have a great holiday.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
PTI re pannetone: I had actually thought of Nutella. But I haven’t any Nutella in the house. Sad.
Cats and tinsel: yeah, that stuff can have sharp edges. Tinsel, Easter grass and all similar substances are banned from my house on pain of a sharp lecture (“Sharp lecture?” says the spouse. “You’ll kick our asses.”. Pity because I grew up with tinsel, love the way it looks and enjoy that soppy old German fairy tale about the first tinsel’d tree.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Cicely: IIRC, the fell beasts in the novel were sort of implied to be the last of their kind, or near last.
I wish we still had some kind of flying creature big enough to ride around on.
Problem is, it’d probably be more interested in eating us than being a sweet ride.
John Moralessays
TLC:
I wish we still had some kind of flying creature big enough to ride around on.
John Morales: Sorry, I should have said “I wish the planet still had creatures on it big enough to ride around on”, such as quetzalcoatlus or them teratorns.
Good morning
*blargh*
Not so good. Shouldn’t have gone full speed again yesterday.
pelamun
(so in a sense it’s good that French people don’t like to speak English
I disagree. During the last years, whenever I moved outside of Alsace/Loraine where we can communicate in our “common” language, Frenhc people have started speaking horrible English that I found much harder to understand than French (they then presumed that I didn’t understand English either).
My problem is that I can understand French very well. Only when I try to speak or write, I substitute Spanish…
Somebody please tell me, how to you say “kiss my ass” in Irish?
Pog mo hon
Short o in pog as in “tock”, o in mo more like a schwa, ehm, like the e in “gimme a kiss”, o in hon more like a swan, only longer.
Problem is that for the unsuspecting stranger, Irish pronounciation has zilch to do with orthography. That’s, of course, not true, it’s much more consistent than English which has hardly any rules, but those rules are pretty far removed from what you know about any other language.
Please, don’t get me started on Tolkien (you don’t want to, you’re talking to somebdy whose nym is Sindarin)
Okay, you had to do it….
Some people have said that Middle Earth is a reference to Middle England which was under attack by modernity, or something like that, and I think some analyses even imply a racist subtext, what with the Easterlings and Southrons.
Tolkien himself considered LoTR to be the “lost ancient saga from England”, especially in the early forms of his writings.
English is lacking its own early medieval narrative that is so characteristic of most European countries, like the Song of Roland (is that the English name?) in France, the Niebelungensaga in Germany, the Edda and so on. What did the English get? Beowulf, which is Danish. So he tried to invent that. In the early versions that are now published as the “Lost Tales” you have Eorl, a visitor from the continent, visit Tol Eressea, the lonly Island, which resembles Britain.
For LoTR, Tolkien denied all real-world political parallels. He mourned the loss of the English countryside due to industrialisation, which he kept alive in the world of the Hobbits (and even their social structure), their destruction by Saruman who industrializes th Shire.
The racist connotations played quite a role when they made the movies. You had a large set of Maori actors who were cast to play the play the evil Uruk-Hai*, while all those white and pale people got to play the Elves, Noble Men and Hobbits. And then you have the Haradrim and the Easterlings who have clear parallels to Sub-SAharan Africans and Arabs. When they were creating the Mordor Ork, Jackson finally put a stop to it. They were WHITE. FULL STOP. Not another group of bad guys who are dark.
Am I the only one who feels bad for the Orcs? They’re trying to live in a drought-stricken landscape. I mean, did you see those shots of Mordor? No natural resources. A hunter-gatherer, even one as well armed as the orcs are, would be hard pressed to eke out any kind of living there.
Oh, you never saw the sea of Nurn in the movie (it is mentioned in the book, I think, that that’s where they grew the food for the armies). It’s like only ever seeing Utah and Nevada and then understanding why the USA invade other countries.
Anyway, Sauron and Saruman didn’t “offer” them anything, they created them to be killers.
In the Hobbit the Orcs in the Misty Mountains aren’t yet that unequivocally evil, but from the early conceptions the Orcs were always tortured, manipulated Elves. As Esteleth said, there’s some kind of “truce” after LoTR is over.
I wonder what female orcs look like. I bet they’re more attractive than you’d think.
That’s Igorinas you’re thinking about. IIRC, in the Hobbit they are mentioned to be, well, like you’d imagine the female version of the Orcs. Saruman’s breeding scheme isn’t examplary of the rest.
Círdan
And this feature makes him stand out, much like a Bearded Lady.
but sex doesn’t seem to have crossed Tolkien’s mind even once in the course of writing it.
Given the number of little Sammies that happen, I disagree.
But the Elves only ever fuck to have kids, perfect little catholics.
Ogvorbis
What amazed me the most in the movies was that, though Tolkien is sparse on details of dress, faces, locations, scenery, etc, save for Riendell, Middle Earth looked much like I saw it through his writings.
You didn’t, by any chance, read the illustrated Alan Lee version?
;)
TLC
Walton: On a more serious note, I do find it tiresome when books go the other route and explicitly describe sex *cough Auel cough*. It’s about as interesting as I imagine explicit depictions of “other bodily functions” as you put it would be in a novel.
Intresting, that’s the version I like best.
BTW, there is an explenation for Gothmog. He was maimed in the war and therefore bears such hatred against humans. I thought that a wonderful resemblance to TRW: Instead of hating his evil master who set him against people who’d have preferred to stay at home themselves, his hatred turns against them.
pelamun
The KPD was outlawed in 1968.
1956, for the sake of accuracy.
But Helmut Kohl back then employed the amnesia defence, claiming not remember many details about how Flick had given so many illicit contribution to his party.
Well, in other scandals about illegal party donations he claimed that his promise that he’d given the donors was more important than the oath he’d sworn to uphold the German constitution and laws…
John Morales
Pelamum, the Eye (piercing all shadows) had the Winged Nazgûl in reserve. Sheesh!
Not true, they’d just been de-horsed by the Bruinen.
I know of an RPG group who drove their master mad with the airstrike approach.
*Lawrence Makore, one of them, still makes me drool
Etta James has terminal leukemia, dementia and Hepatitis C.
More proof there is no god.
Not necessarily. If I ever get dementia, I’d hope that someone shoots me, or that a quick devastating illness wipes me off the planet.
juliansays
A somewhat late thank you to SallyStrange for the recommendations. Very much appreciated.
But the Elves only ever fuck to have kids, perfect little catholics.- Giliell
hmm
I wonder how Tolkein would feel about the elves depicted in the Book of Erotic Fantasy (which, to be honest, I found way more enjoyable than The Silmarillion).
John Moralessays
Giliell,
… like the Song of Roland (is that the English name?) in France
Yeah, it is the English name. I think the closest the English came to that was King Arthur (the Spanish have El Cid Campeador).
I’ve had a really bad day today, for a variety of reasons, and then this storm hit a region of the Phils where I have friends. They are safe, but 569 and counting weren’t so lucky. I reflect in the post on why god hates the Phils.
ChasCPetersonsays
why god hates the Phils
duh.
God is obviously a rich white patriarchal Yankees fan. Plus, have you been to Philadelphia?
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
You didn’t, by any chance, read the illustrated Alan Lee version?
Nope. Nor have I ever seen the Rankin Bass production. Sorry.
=====
Pannetone. I love that. Cuts down on arguing with the printer, “No, maroon should have a little more red in it” and such nonsense.
. Nor have I ever seen the Rankin Bass production. Sorry.
Consider yourself lucky
Fuck, playing doctor on the internet says I probably have caught pyelitis. Sounds like doctor appointment tomorrow morning.
changeable monikersays
Sexual dimorphism in LOTR?
No-one mentions dwarves.
Huh? Must be the beards.
waltonsays
I’ve always been able to enjoy the personal (?) side of politics as a spectator sport. Who’s up, who’s down. You can follow the “leagues” in different countries, and place your “bets” on Election Day.
I have friends who are into that (including some who even place actual bets on election results). I’m not; I’ve never enjoyed sports in general, and I’m not keen on the “sport” of party politics any more than on other sports. I have strong political views, and I’m very interested in constitutions and systems of government, but party politics I most often find ridiculous and frustrating. (Because, unlike sports, there are serious and important issues involved that make a big difference to people’s lives: and when all three parties are saying and doing utterly stupid things about immigration, for instance, and pandering to the xenophobic ignorance of the voters, I just can’t handle it.)
I used to care about party politics back when I supported a party (which is, indeed, much like supporting a football team for many people), but now I find the whole thing so ridiculous and farcical that I find it hard to take an interest. Britain has been governed for a million years by the Labourservative Democrats, nothing changes, we’re governed by different cliques of the same narrow élite of professional politicians, and what passes for “political discourse” is like a Punch and Judy show. And on some of the vital social justice issues, there’s just no discernible difference between the parties, and no prospect of change through the democratic process.
I’m more and more convinced that anyone who wants to be elected to high public office, and is willing to make all the moral compromises that one has to make in rising through the ranks of a party, is exactly the kind of person who shouldn’t be trusted with power. (Not that genuinely-moral people aren’t sometimes elected, but they rarely get to the top, and usually aren’t very successful, because – by definition – they aren’t willing to tailor their beliefs to political expediency. There’s a reason why Obama is president and not, say, Bernie Sanders.) That’s why I’m more and more of an anarcho-monarchist; that government is best which governs not at all, but if we have to have one, an extremely inefficient and ineffective hereditary monarchy would probably be best.
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Ha. I maintain that the only difference between a British general election and a farcical sword-throwing aquatic ceremony is that the latter would be cheaper, and would probably produce a higher quality of leadership.
I’m watching “Ronia the Robber’s Daughter” on TV. I had almost forgotten how wonderfully relaxed the 80’s were:
The Robbers have to wash themselves in the snow and you get to see naked men running around, full front shots and all of that, in a kids’ movie, just as if human bodies were something wonderful you don’t need to be ashamed of.
Can you imagine that?
shouldbeworkingsays
The aquatic mandate did, in theory, produce a better government for a while at least. It does have some appeal to me, more than the enlightened self-interest rationale of some places.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
I have something I can be happy about today.
(the things I am unhappy about are either out of my immediate grasp – I mean the big stuff, the kinds of things people talk about on pharyngula – or they are stuff in my own life which is largely my own bloody stupid fault and not interesting; but today I can haz a happy because:)
DaughterSpawn arrived home today after the very first term of her very first year away at uni. And she loves her course. Already heard that from her over the phone of course, but I’m SO glad to hear in person and in detail that biochemistry is the greatest and most (not all, but most) of her teachers are brilliant and labs are fun and cell biology is the coolest thing ever. So, it’s only the very first term of the very first year, but phew – it’s wonderful to know she chose the right course! And it’s fun! And there are some nice people doing it! And it’s going well so far! And yay!!!!!!
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
Completely thread bankrupt. Just popping in to say, “hi”.
In this story, some Catholics defaced an Anglican billboard.
About 100 Roman Catholics knelt and prayed in the rain today before a ripped billboard depicting a shocked-looking Virgin Mary clutching a positive pregnancy test.
The billboard, in central Auckland, was slashed by scissor-wielding Catholic Action Group member Arthur Skinner yesterday, who led today’s service outside the St Matthew-in-the-City Anglican church, which was responsible for the image.
He said he would destroy the billboard again if it was replaced.
“This is Satanic, this is the ultimate Satanic attack, when Lucifer attacks his worst enemy, the Blessed Virgin.
“This particular church – so called – is run by a gay, feminist-type lobby. They claim to be Christian and yet they put up a blasphemous image of the Blessed Virgin, attacking her virginity and the fact that she was the mother of Christ, the God-Man.”
Mr Skinner accused the Anglican Church more generally of being “basically heretics”.
“There’s only one faith – The Roman Catholic Apostolic Faith – because we go right back in our papal line to Christ….
The motivation for the poster was to get people to think about the social circumstances Mary faced when she found out she was having a child, he said.
“That she had been accused of having an illegitimate child, that she was a poor, young woman. This was a woman of tremendous courage and faith, she’s not a sort of plasticised icon, someone who doesn’t have human feelings.”…
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
Hi, Audley.
I haven’t had to reprogramme my computer with a spike maul yet. I suppose that is a good thing, right?
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
Oggie:
I haven’t had to reprogramme my computer with a spike maul yet. I suppose that is a good thing, right?
So far. Not so great that you’re contemplating, uh, percussive and stabby maintenance, though.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
They claim to be Christian and yet they put up a blasphemous image of the Blessed Virgin
Odd that they freak over that, but not over this. Showing the human side of the fictional construct is bad, using the fictional construct to make money is good.
I really don’t understand.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
So far. Not so great that you’re contemplating, uh, percussive and stabby maintenance, though.
Unfortunately, there is no way for me to kinetically reprogramme a CMS, is there?
David Marjanovićsays
I still haven’t told you about the PhD Comics book (volume 4), autographed by Jorge Cham, that Jadehawk gave me in Rhinebeck. Everyone says it’s such a realistic depiction of grad student life, at least in the US. Three of the depicted scenes in particular have indeed happened to me.
P. 96:
Professor (from outside the picture, while nameless main character looks in dismay): “I don’t understand why you’re not making progress on your thesis.”
Professor (in his armchair, which is shown from behind, so only his pointing hand is visible, while nameless main character looks scared): “You need to stop getting distracted and focus exclusively on your research.”
Professor (from outside the picture, while nameless main character gazes in unbelief): “By the way, did you finish that side project I assigned you? – Also, you need to fix the lab equipment, upgrade the servers and prepare new slides.”
Nameless main character: “Wait, which part do you not understand?”
Professor (from outside the picture): “The part that you’re still here wasting time. Go! Go!”
My supervisor was a lot nicer about it, but did give me a huge side project that delayed the completion of my MSc thesis and became my first and my second paper when I should have been working on my PhD thesis. After (I think after) that side project had spawned a third paper, we agreed to change my official thesis topic (amniote phylogeny & origin of turtles) to the side project (tetrapod phylogeny & origin of modern amphibians). I’ve done very little work on the original thesis topic.
Oh, and, two more side projects have turned into published papers by now. :-) One would have been a nice beginning for my original thesis topic.
P. 13:
“A biological tour of The Lab/Office Fridge
And Its Contents of Mystery!”
Picture of open fridge and open freezer compartment with lines connecting the contents to explanations.
“Empty ice tray (not me!)”
“Impenetrable Ice Glacier” making up 2/3 of volume of freezer compartment
“Discolored ice layers chronicle history of air odor quality”
“Air Freshner [sic] (gave up in 1988)”
“Happy Hour Drinks – Stealing will incur wrath of department admin. assistant. Proceed with extreme Caution”
“Milk container from some grad’s ‘I’ll eat cereal at work’ phase, 1994”
“Unlabeled Tupperware [biohazard sign, toxicity sign] DO NOT OPEN Contact Haz Mat Unit Immediately.”
“Penicillum dannonum (new species!) Colony originated from spilled yogurt, c. 1976.”
“Original location of Penicillum dannonum”
petri dish: “Actual Culture used in Lab Experiments”
no line: “Leftover Desperation Index
Old Pizza – 1
Half-eaten Sandwich – 5
Ketchup (expired) – 7”
I’ve never worked in a lab with a fridge. But I’ve been to plenty of molecular-biology labs with fridges in them. Every single one of those fridges, on two continents, carries big, glaring warnings: “Food only” or “Do not ever put any food anywhere near this fridge”. Apparently, then, the problem is real. :-)
P. 14: Nameless main character and 2 nameless friends have just eaten at an Asian noodle place.
Friend 1: “Hey, check out my fortune cookie fortune: ‘Your search for knowledge will soon come to fruition.'”
Friend 2: “Huh, mine says: ‘Great discoveries come to those with patience and perseverance.'”
Friend 1: “Whoa…”
Friend 2: “These are strangely appropriate…”
Friend 1: “Yeah…”
Friend 1: “What’s yours say?”
Nameless main character: “‘You will never graduate.'”
A few days before Rhinebeck, my uncle took me to a pan-East-Asian restaurant near Emory University. His fortune cookie: “☺ You have at your command the wisdom of the ages. ☺” Quite appropriate for a scientist, I thought, standing on shoulders of giants and all. My fortune cookie: “☺ You look pretty. ☺”
I hadn’t been that disappointed in a long time. X-)
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
Throat-singing: I think I can technically do it, except I can’t get the overtones to be loud enough. They’re probably not audible outside my skull.
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
I often think this shaped my view of the world rather too much. Along with TV shows like Babar, to which I credit, in part, my lifelong monarchism.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
I could type before I could write by hand
Wow!
A slight digression while nuance is on the table – what do people think of the distinction between sexism and misogyny?
There is help out there if you need it. One does not need to resign oneself to a lifetime of monarchism and related debauchery.
:-D :-D :-D
Even the word “pregnant” was hushed and euphemised, and you certainly wouldn’t explain why that lady was so fat! Or dare to let such a thing be seen on TV.
That’s interesting, because I remember believing pregnancy was a magical consequence of marriage, and independently so did at least one of my sisters (independently because we never talked about that till years after we had learnt otherwise). Take Walton’s “people fall in love, get married, and have children” and add post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
What I meant: do you use national party lists, or party lists state by state?
National party lists.
It’s one of the few parts of Ulysses that is actually comprehensible
ROTFL!
Disclaimer: I’ve never read any part of that book.
who else but Gilbert could come up with rhyming “caravanserai” with “wards in Chancery”?)
Of course it rhymes, approximately, with rye instead.
Turkish-and-related saray “palace”. See Sarajevo, “the one [grammatically neuter, so probably “place”] with a palace”.
And now I should be studying, since I have an exam on Monday in International Humanitarian Law (otherwise known as Law of Armed Conflict) which I am going to fail. I’ve got to the point where I’m so certain of impending failure that I’m now doing anything I can to avoid actually working, including arguing about male circumcision.
~:-| Why are you so sure you’ll fail? (Apart from the circular argument that you’re not studying right now.)
pannetone
Panettone. Italian has the somewhat disturbing property that long consonants can appear pretty much anywhere in a word; they’re not tied to stressed syllables.
Awwwww… but monarchy is so much fun. It’s the only political issue or institution I actually enjoy discussing any more, and the only one that makes me feel warm and fuzzy and comforted. Everything else is so depressingly awful, and the more I learn about social realities, the worse it seems.
*warm hug*
It’s barely freezing, snowing and the cat is on the heating pad.
It’s still not freezing except maybe at night, and no trace of snow. It rained several times last week. Grmpf. The warm winters of the 1990s are back.
I wonder how Tolkein would feel about the elves depicted in the Book of Erotic Fantasy
How are they depicted?
That’s why I’m more and more of an anarcho-monarchist; that government is best which governs not at all, but if we have to have one, an extremely inefficient and ineffective hereditary monarchy would probably be best.
So, a Daoist emperor instead of a Confucian one?
The Robbers have to wash themselves in the snow and you get to see naked men running around, full front shots and all of that, in a kids’ movie, just as if human bodies were something wonderful you don’t need to be ashamed of.
Where do you get “wonderful” from? The naked bodies are just stated as facts. :-| The movie, which I recently watched again, doesn’t imply “look, how wonderful”; the robbers are chased out into the snow by the boss’s wife who has decided that every man and his clothes need to be cleaned right now, and the camera doesn’t bother turning away. That’s all. It did always surprise me that full frontal nudity is shown, but it’s just shown, not celebrated or anything. (And it’s all over in a few seconds.)
I’m SO glad to hear in person and in detail that biochemistry is the greatest and most (not all, but most) of her teachers are brilliant and labs are fun and cell biology is the coolest thing ever. So, it’s only the very first term of the very first year, but phew – it’s wonderful to know she chose the right course! And it’s fun! And there are some nice people doing it! And it’s going well so far! And yay!!!!!!
*Jadehawk’s totally biodegradable confetti*
Awesome! :-) :-) :-)
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
Oggie:
Unfortunately, there is no way for me to kinetically reprogramme a CMS, is there?
Probably for the best, really.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
Probably for the best, really.
yeah. If I took down my agency’s public server, someone would eventually notice. And I only have 1 1/2 more days of work this calendar year (next Wednesday is my Mondy, Friday and Wednesday all roled into one!) and by the time I got back it would be really bad.
David Marjanovićsays
They claim to be Christian and yet they put up a blasphemous image of the Blessed Virgin, attacking her virginity and the fact that she was the mother of Christ, the God-Man.”
…what.
If Christ was fully human (whether he also was fully divine or not), surely he’d have been detected by a pregnancy test!?!
WTF!?!?!
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
David M:
It’s still not freezing except maybe at night, and no trace of snow. It rained several times last week. Grmpf. The warm winters of the 1990s are back.
We’re just starting to get chilly here– it was 19° F when I was out in Albany last night. Of course, this didn’t stop some lovely young ladies from stumbling from bar to bar in mini-skirts with no coats on.
I wasn’t the only person giving them the WTF face.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
And this can’t be good. M*b*s/M*rk*z* is back out and already posting.
David Marjanovićsays
…Oh. She wouldn’t have used a pregnancy test if she hadn’t fucked recently.
Or maybe she would have, to see how quickly the Holy Spirit worked His miracle…
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
Oggie:
If I took down my agency’s public server, someone would eventually notice. And I only have 1 1/2 more days of work this calendar year (next Wednesday is my Mondy, Friday and Wednesday all roled into one!) and by the time I got back it would be really bad.
Yay for short weeks! (I have a full week ahead of me, but then I’ve got the 26th and 2nd off. Woo!)
I like how someone would “eventually” notice that the servers were destroyed by a spiked bat. I’m guessing that your coworkers/managers aren’t the swiftest cookies in the jar, huh?
ChasCPetersonsays
Oh, it’s blasphemous all right.
Pregnancy tests detect the presence of human chorionic gonadotropin, a hormone secreted by recently implanted embryos (it keeps the corpus luteum secreting progesterone, which maintains the endometrium in which the embryo has implanted).
Jesus’s embryo, of course, would have secreted divine chorionic gonadotropin instead. Negative test, proving virginity. QED
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
I like how someone would “eventually” notice that the servers were destroyed by a spiked bat. I’m guessing that your coworkers/managers aren’t the swiftest cookies in the jar, huh?
Our management would not enter into it until the people in DC noticed and tracked it down. I’m up in Scranton, PA (picture the bright and wonderful places on earth. then look elsewhere.)
More controversy over banners, displays and diversity in general. This controversy is centered in Leesburg, close enough to Washington D.C. to garner more attention.
….A pine stands adorned with tinsel — and atheist testimonials. (“I can be moral without religion,” one declares.)
Members of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are scheduled to put up their contribution this weekend. It’s a banner portraying a Nativity-style scene, but Jesus is nowhere to be found. Instead, the Virgin Mary cradles a stalk-eyed noodle-and-meatball creature, and the manger is surrounded by pirates, a solemn gnome and barnyard animals. The message proclaims: “Touched by an Angelhair.”
With the new displays, a new tradition was born: a charged seasonal debate.
This year, the dispute struck a particularly raw chord. The skeleton Santa was ripped down — twice — by offended locals. Kenneth D. Reid, Loudoun County supervisor-elect for the Leesburg District, sent a news release opposing “outrageous anti-religious displays.” In a letter to a local newspaper, one resident called the displays a “mean-spirited attack by the faithless on the faithful.”
Atheists spoke up, too. They said that if Jesus has a right to be there, so does the skeleton Santa. The place for a Nativity scene, they said, is outside a church, not a county courthouse.
Despite a flurry of tongue-in-cheek news reports about the controversy, most in Loudoun don’t find it a laughing matter. Some say the issue is about freedom of speech or the separation of church and state; others say it is about the importance of preserving a cherished small-town tradition…..
,,,“The creche is not religious,” Caulkins said, his voice trembling. “It is a belief symbol. You have to believe in something.” His eyes were glazed with tears.
But he expressed little patience for those who profess a belief in flying pasta monsters or in the artistic value of a skeleton Santa Claus. “It is embarrassing to me, and it should be to everyone,” Caulkins said….
David Marjanovićsays
Of course, this didn’t stop some lovely young ladies from stumbling from bar to bar in mini-skirts with no coats on.
Ah, yeah. Jadehawk blogged about this practice maybe 2 years ago. Minot, ND, probably negative °F.
For the record, weapons-grade stupidity is not sexy. In fact, it’s one of the biggest turnoffs I dare imagine.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Morning, all.
*sips tea*
Giliell:
Ha. I just noticed that your name is Sindarin. Howdy, Star-Lady.
But the Elves only ever fuck to have kids, perfect little catholics.
Yep.
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
David:
Ah, yeah. Jadehawk blogged about this practice maybe 2 years ago. Minot, ND, probably negative °F.
I just don’t understand what the fuck the point is. Those women look like cold assholes and they would look just as cute in a pair of nice jeans and a pair of sexy tall boots (and less like stupid assholes).
David Marjanovićsays
Jesus’s embryo, of course, would have secreted divine chorionic gonadotropin instead.
1) Jesus would TOTALLY have secreted human chorionic gonadotropin, monophysite heretic.
2) Would Mary’s corpus luteum react to divine chorionic gonadotropin? Do humans have receptors for that? Huh? Huh??
Ex-mormons are discussing the troubling book-burning or book-trashing habits of mormon missionaries and of mormons in general.
Seems books not pro-mormon, books that relate real history, and other troubling tomes that are not faith-promoting are often stolen from public libraries.
,,,“The creche is not religious,” Caulkins said, his voice trembling. “It is a belief symbol. You have to believe in something.” His eyes were glazed with tears.
1) Jesus would TOTALLY have secreted human chorionic gonadotropin, monophysite heretic.
2) Would Mary’s corpus luteum react to divine chorionic gonadotropin? Do humans have receptors for that? Huh? Huh??
[coffee spluttering funny — time out taken to clean screen]
I wish we could add the debate between David M. and ChasCPeterson (362) to the billboard in question.
With all this learned discussion of Mary’s pregnancy test I think we may be getting perilously close to Sophisticated Theology.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
With all this learned discussion of Mary’s pregnancy test I think we may be getting perilously close to Sophisticated Theology.
Of course it is blasphemous. The Holy Ghost appeared to Mary in a vision and he told her she was knocked up and even named the father. To think that she would double check against an hallucination is blasphemy. Blasphemy, I tell you.
Uh-oh, an actual attack of a woman in an elevator:
A Brooklyn woman was horrifically burned to death in her apartment-building elevator yesterday when a maniac guy-pal sprayed her with flammable liquid and set her alight with a Molotov cocktail, cops said.
I’m watching “Ronia the Robber’s Daughter” on TV. I had almost forgotten how wonderfully relaxed the 80′s were:
The Robbers have to wash themselves in the snow and you get to see naked men running around, full front shots and all of that, in a kids’ movie, just as if human bodies were something wonderful you don’t need to be ashamed of.
Can you imagine that?
Well, it is Swedish.
Lovely singing.
Silisays
On the other hand…. what would Ent-sex look like? I have a feeling they do it standing up.
No. Might lead to dancing.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
No. Might lead to dancing.
Really, really, really, really slow dancing. I mean, slooooooow dancing.
opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les poucessays
That was only based on my personal experience. I was terribly afraid that no-one would speak French with me, but they almost all did.
KPD
Oops, thanks. Let me amend my abridged history then
1869-1890: Social Democratic movement starts in Germany, founding of SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany) in 1890-
1919: KPD (Communist Party of Germny) splits off of SPD
after 1945, in the two Germanies:
East: 1946: forcible union of SPD and KPD to form the SED (Socialist Unity Party).
1989: SPD re-founded in the East, SED renames itself SED-PDS (Socialist Unity Party-Party of Democratic Socialism), later the SED part is dropped, so the party name becomes PDS.
West:
1956: KPD outlawed by Constitutional Court 1956-1968: KPD operating illegally
1968: DKP (German Communist Party) founded
Reunited Germany:
Agenda 2010 policy, proposed by SPD-Green government in 2003, sparks protest movement, which then consolidates itself in the form of the WASG in 2004. WASG was first just an association, in 2005 a party of the same is founded.
In 2007, the PDS and WASG merge, ultimately settling on the name Die Linke (The Left)
Like many other conlangers, I revere Tolkien for the fact that he not only invented several languages, but also developed realistic scenarios for how the classical language might have developed into the vernaculars (and I say that despite knowing what his real life profession was). This is something I was never able to do in a good way…
Also, Iron and Wine comes up first after M&S when I started a M&S station. Iron and Wine has also been a fairly frequent contributor to my Toubab Krewe station so I can safely say they’re pretty awesome.
And speaking of Iron and Wine, there’s Calexico, alternative country/Americana, a complicated and interesting sound with a lot of south-of-the-border influence:
Calexico recorded seven songs together with Iron and Wine “in the Reins” but I don’t like their joint work as much as I like Calexico’s independent work.
David Marjanovićsays
[coffee spluttering funny — time out taken to clean screen]
“Excusez-moi monsieur, je cherche le portrait de Louis XIV”
and his answer got over my head, though I understood the general direction. If you know where the portrait is, it is in a corner room, but the corner in question is divided into two, “an inner corner” and an “outer corner”, hope that makes any sense? So I kept going around in circles through the wrong corner room.
That portrait was the only famous painting I wanted to see that was NOT in the “famous paintings wing”, so that’s why I was looking for it.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
I know it is a few days early, but I have so much to do before I go to Florida, and I will be very busy in Florida, so:
Head pööripäeva!
Шчаслівыя сонцастаяння!
Gelukkig zonnewende!
Til hamingju með Sólstöður!
Laimīgu saulgrieži!
To all. Enjoy dancing naked in the backyard. Just keep the sparklers far enough away . . . .
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
I agree, pelamun. For the record, Tolkien was a university professor. Anglo-Saxon language.
Tolkien accounted for Language Busybodies, even. That is, there are people who show up and assert, “hwesta sounds funny. Let’s change it to chwesta! Who cares if it was originally an onomatopoeia!” (hwesta means “breeze/wind” in Quenya).
In addition to being damn funny, this kind of shit actually happens with real languages.
You can actually study the langagues. There’s enough of a vocabulary, clues as to how to construct words, and grammar to make this viable. If you read the texts, you find things like, “X is an irregular verb. It used to be regular, but it was changed to have the ending Y at the insistence of Fëanor” all the damn time. Fëanor decided that the language needed to be “fixed.” He was also a raging jerk who set off a genocide. Part of me wonders if Tolkien was making a Point™ with this.
Hokay, I had at least some dinner, which is important, since I have a talent for fainting.
Whatever they told you in “Gone with the Wind”, sinking unconsciously into the arms of a man is not romantic, it is scary.
Esteleth, Woman of Hope
You got it almost. Star-Lady would be Giliel, with one L like Galadriel, Two L is star-daughter.
I listen to Giliell IRL…
You have to believe in something.
I believe in going to the doc tomorrow and getting antibiotics.
pelamun
I didn’t want to reply to it at the time, but in the “Vile Islam” thread you brought up the statistics from the Verfassungsschutz.
I would take them with a lot of salt, especially about right wing extremists.
Those numbers have been kept down for political reasons, weil nicht sein kann was nicht sein darf.
Remember the young man I told about some months ago (I don’t know if you’d been writing on TET by then already), where the son of my sister’s colleague was attacked, severely wounded and had a Swatiska cut into his chest?
Police simply dropped the case, told him to do so to and it has not made its way into the official statistics.
With the whole NSU thing coming to light, the young man was triggered in such a way that his parents had to go to his flat and collect him, because he couldn’t even leave it alone anymore.
And now they are finding that the terrible fire in Ludwigshafen that killed 9 people and where, although they could never tell exactly what had happen, they could be 100% sure that there was no xenophobic background, there probably was a right-wing perpetrator.
many years ago I already got a book that tried to present everything that is known about his languages… It’s unfortunate that he didn’t compile a dictionary..
I also read somewhere that he invented his languages first, and then created Middle Earth merely to have some kind of cultural background for his languages. Don’t know if this is conlanging apocrypha or not, but I like the thought.
most def. I also think that the Verfassungschutz was blind on the right eye, as they say (as a leftist, I also think that the VS is prone to inflate left-wing terrorism figures, but I didn’t have the research to back it up, so I just linked to the VS report). But it’s a starting point if people demand statistics. I’m still waiting for the dust to settle how widespread this NSU thing was, if it really was a brown RAF.
They need to streamline their bureaucratic structure, 17-20 agencies not sharing data properly is just a recipe for disaster. If there really is a RAF like terrorist network in operation, they need to find out why they missed that and devote manpower to this threat (but not forgetting Islamist networks). Besides, on the ‘normal policing level’ they need to take cases like that described by you much more seriously, but also civil society needs to speak out more.
Owlmirrorsays
Would Mary’s corpus luteum react to divine chorionic gonadotropin? Do humans have receptors for that? Huh? Huh??
Sheesh, what do you think the Immaculate Conception was for? Mary was not only conceived without sin so as to be worthy to gestate Jesus, she also had her biology tweaked so as to be able to receive divine hormones. Therefore, she would have had the receptors.
Quod erat demonstrandum, cum sancto spiritu.
ChasCPetersonsays
Would Mary’s corpus luteum react to divine chorionic gonadotropin? Do humans have receptors for that?
An omnipotent Being is somehow magically fertilizing her ovum already–how much extra trouble to tweak a membrane-surface protein a little bit?
I had to look up ‘monophysite’ but I laffed when I did.
You know, I’m not aware of any evidence that Jesus was genetically related to Mary at all. She bore him (and may well have bored him), but it could have been a surrogate thing.
You can actually study the langagues. There’s enough of a vocabulary, clues as to how to construct words, and grammar to make this viable.
Oh, for Germans there even is a study book with exercises for learning Sindarin and Quenya.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Pelamun,
AFAIK, he did invent the languages first. Or rather, he developed the idea of the languages (sounds, basic structure, a few words) then the people that spoke them, which led to more words (for place-names, people, concepts, etc), which led to the story of the people, which led to more words, etc.
I read an essay that charted the progress of a single sentence, Eala Earendel engla beorhtast, which was scribbled into his journal sometime around 1917 when he was in France during WWI. This means “Hail Earendel, brightest of angels” in Old English and has some context, but mostly just sounds kinda neat. It was eventually published in Lord of the Rings as Aiya Eärendil elenion ancalima! Frodo says this in Shelob’s lair, and it means “Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars” in Quenya. Oh, and Eärendil is now a person with a story and this actually makes sense in context – the little light that Galadriel (“Maiden Crowned with the Glorious Garland”) gave Frodo in Lórien is a refraction of the light of Eärendil, which is what the Elves call Venus. Eärendil shows up in The Silmarillion, where he, on behalf of all of Middle-Earth, sails to Valinor to plead to the Valar (the gods). He is also the father of Elrond (yes, that Elrond) and Galadriel’s cousin. So: single sentence –> sketch of story of Earendel/Eärendil –> language edits –> more story –> more language edits –> seemingly unrelated story –> something Frodo says.
Owlmirrorsays
I read an essay that charted the progress of a single sentence, Eala Earendel engla beorhtast, which was scribbled into his journal sometime around 1917 when he was in France during WWI.
I see that the phrase is a bit longer: Éala, Éarendel, engla beorhtast, ofer middangeard monnum sended
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
Owlmirror,
Thanks for that. The phrase does keep going, which adds a bit to the Eärendil story.
Silisays
You know, I’m not aware of any evidence that Jesus was genetically related to Mary at all. She bore him (and may well have bored him), but it could have been a surrogate thing.
If Mary didn’t do anything but bear Jesus, then why was it necessary to destroy the evidence by assumpting her body and soul into Heaven? That only makes sense in a scenario where recovering Marian DNA would let us clone Jesus.
single sentence –> sketch of story of Earendel/Eärendil –> language edits –> more story –> more language edits –> seemingly unrelated story –> something Frodo says.
There are a lot of those instances.
Tolkien himself wrote that a lot of things in LoTR reflect earlier stories and histories, like when Gimli sings of Khazad-dûm, and mentions not only Durin, but also Nargothrond and Gondlin (don’t ask Giliell about Gondolin, she hates it).
And since we’re talking Tolkien, here’s one of my most favourite poems ever.
Not for its brilliance, but for its simple beauty:
You and me and the Cottage of Lost Play
You and me – we know this land
And often have been there
In the long old days, old nursery days,
A dark child and a fair.
Full one can be read here (Would spam the thread)
And “Kortirion among the Trees” was the thing that helped me learn the English tree-names
though 10 years ago I made a decision to focus more on living, natural languages, what with the majority of the 6000-8000 natural languages in danger of becoming extinct.
I had a professor at the time exhorting me “not to waste time with dead languages (constructed implied), you can still study those in 100 years’ time”, and she had a point there I think. (She was saying this as someone with 5-6 extinct languages under her belt)
On the other hand…. what would Ent-sex look like? I have a feeling they do it standing up.
“The mating habits of Treefolk, particularly the stalwart Ironroot Treefolk, are truly absurd. Molasses comes to mind. It’s amazing the species can survive at all given such protracted periods of mate selection, conjugation, and gestation.”
This is why I don’t want to hear you belly-aching about Obama and telling us all about how you can’t vote for him because he didn’t do some thing you for some quite possibly invalid reason you thought he would do despite having only two years without a Republican congress and almost no time without a Fillibuster.
From Xblog
Ok this pisses me off a lot. I’m not upset that he didn’t get everything I wanted him to do done. I’m upset that he actively works towards things that are awful. It would be better if he got less of that done. The Republican Fillibuster isn’t forcing him to take a stance for indefinite detention and torture.
Owlmirrorsays
If Mary didn’t do anything but bear Jesus, then why was it necessary to destroy the evidence by assumpting her body and soul into Heaven? That only makes sense in a scenario where recovering Marian DNA would let us clone Jesus.
I remember reading a while back that with every pregnancy, a small number of fetal cells do manage to travel into the mother, and just hang around, avoiding the immune system. Your mother’s body will contain your fetal cells and those of your siblings.
So it might have been possible to clone Jesus entirely from a small remnant cell of him in Mary’s body, not just the half of her DNA that Jesus had.
carliesays
Ok, I think I need one of these. Might be a lot of fun during department meetings. :)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
…Might be a lot of fun during department meetings. :)
I fully expected to find an oblivion inducing injury at that link.
Silisays
I have a lot of candle butts around. Does anyone know how to cast new candles – easily?
waltonsays
Walton, you like monarchy… if you ever want to try military SF, try reading the Honorverse series by David Weber — it’s as pro-monarchical as it gets.
Oh, I’ve heard of that one, though I’ve never read the books. It sounds a lot like Hornblower set in space. Only with a female protagonist.
(I’m not always keen on military SF. But some of it I like. And hereditary monarchy in SF seems to arise fairly regularly, although less so than in fantasy: I quite liked Barrayar in the Vorkosigan Saga, although I’ve only read The Warrior’s Apprentice and never got around to reading the rest of the series.)
waltonsays
And hereditary monarchy in SF seems to arise fairly regularly, although less so than in fantasy: I quite liked Barrayar in the Vorkosigan Saga, although I’ve only read The Warrior’s Apprentice and never got around to reading the rest of the series.)
Damn. That sentence would have made a little more sense if I’d rearranged the word order (the Vorkosigan Saga being, of course, SF, not fantasy). My brain is melting.
Anyway… monarchy. There’s a reason why people like stories with kings, princes, princesses, chancellors and lords. Something in it appeals to our deepest nature, I suppose.
… you can demonstrate real activism in the political system at a level and in a way which contributes substantially and realistically to improving the things you are complaining about.
Minimally this means voting strategically in primaries, but that is not really enough. You also have to vote thoughtfully and strategically for candidates at all levels, because they grow up and run for higher office. If you don’t like the system, i.e., want more parties or want runoff voting, you have to actually do things which involve hours of your time over the course of a year and some of your money, to work towards those things.
And so on.
Perhaps you are doing all that, and if so, good for you. If not, you are whining.
So, which is it? And are you really going to vote for Gingrich if he is the alternative to this president you seem to disdain?
Ah so you can’t complain that Obama isn’t perfect unless you yourself are perfect.
FFS
Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaidensays
Hey all, I’m going to read back a ways, but I haven’t been around (much) for about a week & I just wanted to say I’m alive & thank all the people who put up such a good fight against the nonsense of bevwoodward and others in the rape thread (I’m not saying rape isn’t a bad thing, I’m just saying that sex without consent isn’t a bad thing unless such sex without consent is inflicted by a stranger leaping out of the bushes to attack a non-trans, sober nun in full habit who breaks both her arms defending against the crowbar wielded by her attacker AND screams loud enough to be picked up on microphones several blocks away but not loud enough to get help to her before penetration can be completed).
Ms Crush has consumed a lot of my time – a ton of my time – and work has been steady. With my evenings being spent on long phone calls (typically 4+ hours: I love unlimited long distance) there hasn’t been the same time to keep up with threads here & make intelligent contributions.
Of course… On the plus side, while Ms. Crush is depriving you all of my patently ingenious contributions, she is, at least, providing me many deliriously happy moments.
I’m not (quite) smitten enough to assume that what we have will automatically translate into some long-term, physically co-located relationship, but as was said when I brought this up to y’all a few weeks ago: the internet IS real life.
I was reading the thread about atheist tropes and we were talking about love and how theists insist we believe in it without evidence while most of us here assert that, no, we have quite a bit of evidence for love (with the lovely addition of the Minchin quote: “Love without evidence is stalking”). I have been thinking quite a bit about the evidences of love the last few weeks. What makes me okay with the speedy rate at which whatever Ms Crush and I have is developing (before we were comfortable with the word relationship, we started calling it, “This,” which newborn tradition we have continued) is that there is plenty of evidence for our This. How often we choose to call each other or write, what we say, what we are reluctant to share and what we are eager to share. There is a mountain of data that makes up the evidence for her feelings for me and mine for her. We’ve gone over the other side of the mountain and, though I’m still in a crush, I call it love (the two states: crush and love, though rarely co-occuring are not mutually incompatible).
And it is only the more beautiful because it is a skeptical love: we are taking nothing for granted, as scary as it can be to not lie to ourselves that we are “fated” or that our “This” is permanent, I can be certain that being loved isn’t self-deception. I stand on the side of skeptical, evidence-based love. Who would want love any other way?
Silli
or you could simply get one of these. You throw your old candles into them and burn them, preferrably outdoors
melissafsays
Kia ora horde. I rarely delurk (I hate commenting from my phone, my only source of net access), but as my googling has failed me I thought I’d ask you knowledgeable lot… Does anyone know anything about chronic appendicitis? Two days ago I presented at the hospital with all the signs of appendicitis – severe lower right abdominal pain that began around my navel & later shifted to the lower right, nausea, raised white blood cell count, & a low-grade fever. And then after 6 hours, it all went away, leaving me with nothing but very sore tenderness in the area where my appendix is located. So they sent me home, and two days later I’m still just as tender in that area. Both mum and the mother-in-law immediately said “rumbling appendix”, and from the little info I gleaned off the net I think it could be (but IANAD). I don’t want to waste money on a visit to the doctor, but am rather concerned. Any info about whether what I’m experiencing could be chronic appendicitis (such as when I could expect another bout of pain if it is CA) would be greatly appreciated :)
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
Sili:
I have a lot of candle butts around. Does anyone know how to cast new candles – easily?
If you have something that can be used as a tall thin freestanding mold (bamboo comes to mind) it’s just a matter of tying your wick around a toothpick to hang it right down the center, melting the wax, and carefully pouring it in. If your molds are watertight and don’t float, maybe stand them in cold water to make it solidify faster.
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
might also help if your molds are ‘disposable’. You might have to cut or split them to get them to separate from the candle. Again, bamboo comes to mind.
How many cases are there where democracy was introduced by a foreign invasion without widespread support among the population of the invaded country? Japan counts, but it’s an odd democracy, isn’t it.
Please explain, especially what’s so odd about it. Also, if Japan counts, why not Germany or Austria? If you mean that prior to the American occupation, there was no democracy in Japan, then I suggest reading up on Japanese history, especially on what is known as “Taishō Democracy”.
Wowbagger, Madman of Insleyfarnesays
Home sick from work – some kind of stomach thing – and am listening to the audiobook version of God is Not Great, read by Hitchens himself; I am, of course, enjoying it immensely. I’m finding myself giggling a lot at the (dry) witticisms and thorough putdowns of religious stupidity.
Am a bit embarrassed to admit that it took his death to prompt me to finally get around to it, but I suppose it’s better late than never.
Owlmirrorsays
Anyway… monarchy. There’s a reason why people like stories with kings, princes, princesses, chancellors and lords. Something in it appeals to our deepest nature, I suppose.
Dominance hierarchies?
As long as there’s an alpha male — or in a pinch, an alpha female — in charge, everything is working as it should.
======
Experts on the Problem of Evil were known as theologians. These were very erudite primates, skilled in primate logic, who wrote long books trying to answer the question “Why did God create an imperfect universe?”
“God” was their name for the hypothetical biggest-alpha-male-of-all. Being primates, they could not comprehend how anything could run if there weren’t an alpha male in charge of it.
— Robert Anton Wilson
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
melissaf:
I’ve never had appendicitis*, but if I was in your boat, I’d make an appointment with my doctor as soon as possible– tenderness like that is never a good sign.
*I’ve had a variety of other abdominal problems– ovarian cysts (which can have symptoms a lot like appendicitis), gall stones, fun stuff like that.
Thanks TLC, but bamboo isn’t exactly common around here (at least not in such a size).
I think I’ll try something like Gilliel’s idea. Thanks!
The Laughing Coyote (Papio Cynocephalus)says
it just occured to me one could use lengths of metal pipe, and free the candles by lightly heating the outside after the wax has solidified.
(Those things Giliell linked to are awesome. I’m just thinking out loud now in type form, since it’s something I’d like to play around with myself)
melissafsays
Thanks Audley :) You have my sympathies re your own past abdominal issues – most definitely not fun. The doctor did mention possible ovarian torsion, which apparently is rather serious too. I have no idea why they sent me home :s Ah well, suppose I better suck it up & go in to the doctor. I just don’t want to pay $50 NZD to be told they don’t know, won’t do tests, come back in if the tenderness turns into acute pain
changeable monikersays
@Sili, Googling “make your own candles from butts” gets me this at #2:
Heh, aww, thanks Audley :) The earliest appointment I can get is in two days time *growls with frustration* If I’m not already in the hospital by then thanks to more wonderful pain, I’ll let you know if smacking is required for the good doctor to be helpful :D
Nutmegsays
melissaf @411
Sorry about your whatever-it-is. I had something a year ago that looked exactly like appendicitis until the CT scan, which showed that my terminal ileum had decided to be inflamed for no readily apparent reason. They sent me home with antacids. I never found out what it was, and I was still pretty sore for a couple of days. But after a week I was fine, and it’s never come back.
Hope you feel better soon. I second the recommendation to see a doctor again.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
I have a lot of candle butts around. Does anyone know how to cast new candles – easily?
Melt the wax in a double boiler or crock pot (you can even use one of the plastic liners for either to help in clean up). Use a tall, narrow can (I once used three of the small tomato paste cans (one with the bottom, the other two made into tubes) taped together with lots and lots and lots of tape (not to worry if there are leaks, just have it in a post of hot water and any leaking wax will stay on top of the water (and if you wrap enough tap around it, the leaks will be minimal))), fill it with the molten wax, and dip long wicks into it, adding more wax as needed, until the candles are the right size and/or you have used up your wax.
Another possiblity is those wide plastic cups that are about 2 inches tall and four inches wide. With one or two wicks, it’ll work. And you can even vary the colours within each.
if Japan counts, why not Germany or Austria?
I don’t remember about Austria off the top of my head, but Germany did have a fairly long tradition of democracy at various levels (even in the Second Reich, the Reichstag was moderately democratic and had at least a little bit of power). At the very least, more of a tradition than Japan.
I don’t remember about Austria off the top of my head, but Germany did have a fairly long tradition of democracy at various levels (even in the Second Reich, the Reichstag was moderately democratic and had at least a little bit of power). At the very least, more of a tradition than Japan.
The Meiji Constitution, promulgated in 1890, was modeled after that of the Second Reich.
Silisays
Stop being so cynical. :-p Monarchy is so much more… magical than that.
Only when done by elephants.
Put a pachyderm (a real one, not just one that mimics the ears and nose) on the throne of England, and I too will support the monarchy.
melissafsays
Thanks Nutmeg. Wow you got a CT scan? Very thorough. All I got were some pokes and prods & a large number of morphine injections. Although I won’t deny that I probably appreciated the morphine more than I would’ve a CT scan at that point :p Fingers crossed I have the same sort of thing you had, and it won’t come back. But yes, off to the doctor for me.
janinesays
Stop being so cynical. :-p Monarchy is so much more… magical than that.
Monarchy is magic.
Looking for a pretend priest so that the entrails can be ripped out and used to hang the magic monarch.
The Freedom and Rights Movement (自由民権運動 Jiyū Minken Undō) was started by people such as Itagaki Taisuke, who had founded the Freedom Party (自由党) in 1881. They were able to realise their goal of constitutional monarchy in 1890, and then work towards more democratic freedoms, which culminated in the Taishō Democracy Era.
changeable monikersays
Oh, Newt. The Liberal Curmudgeon (who combines my two favorite belief systems), unloads:
Professor Gingrich was at it again last week flashing his Official Historian’s Membership Badge, this time to explain why President Historian Gingrich, “just like Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, and FDR,” would “take on the judiciary.”
Before examining the professor’s historical analogies, could I point out that unlike, say, being a chemist, physician, lawyer, engineer, accountant, plumber, tree surgeon, piano tuner, or barber, being a “historian” means absolutely nothing in terms of professional qualifications or special expertise?
The leading GOP candidate keeps brandishing the title “historian” as if this uniquely qualifies him to hold forth with authority about the American political system. (“I would suggest to you actually, as a historian, I may understand this better than lawyers,” he told reporters last week in reference to his pronouncement of the invalidity of two hundred years of legal precedent establishing the power of courts to consider the constitutionality of laws.)
Well, as someone who has slung history with the best of them, I can reveal a little secret: anyone who can read can be a historian. In fact, the more you read, the better a historian you can be. Which is where Professor Gingrich runs into trouble.
Put a pachyderm (a real one, not just one that mimics the ears and nose) on the throne of England, and I too will support the monarchy.
No, the monarch has to be on the throne as well, otherwise it does us no good to put the pachyderm on it.
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
janine:
Monarchy is magic.
Looking for a pretend priest so that the entrails can be ripped out and used to hang the magic monarch.
Damn, you are awesome. :)
waltonsays
pelamun: It’s not my sphere of expertise, but if I remember rightly, the Reichstag of the German Empire was fairly democratic for its time, with universal suffrage for men over twenty-five? (While the upper house, the Reichsrat, was controlled by hereditary princely families, much like the British House of Lords.) But as I understand it, it was different from the British “Westminster system” in that the executive government was accountable exclusively to the Emperor, not to the legislature, and the Chancellor was almost always also Prime Minister of Prussia. (Which had its own separate parliament, with a House of Representatives and a House of Lords, modelled on the British system.) And the government, like that of Britain in the same era, was dominated by the hereditary aristocracy, with almost every government minister being a Graf or Freiherr or something similar.
(I should stop geeking out about historical constitutions, though, and try to prepare for my exam tomorrow. But I’m so sleeeepy. And I know nothing and am going to fail. But anyway.)
David Marjanovićsays
Tolkien accounted for Language Busybodies, even. That is, there are people who show up and assert, “hwesta sounds funny. Let’s change it to chwesta! Who cares if it was originally an onomatopoeia!” (hwesta means “breeze/wind” in Quenya).
In addition to being damn funny, this kind of shit actually happens with real languages.
Not much. What happens (…as I just mentioned on another blog maybe 3 hours ago, LOL…) is that onomatopoietic words can cease to be such by regular sound change. The Proto-Indo-European ancestor of “wind” started with something similar to [hw], so it probably was onomatopoietic, but [w] doesn’t sound like blowing wind much, and [v] (found in that word in most Indo-European languages today) most certainly doesn’t.
You can actually study the langagues. There’s enough of a vocabulary, clues as to how to construct words, and grammar to make this viable. If you read the texts, you find things like, “X is an irregular verb. It used to be regular, but it was changed to have the ending Y at the insistence of Fëanor” all the damn time. Fëanor decided that the language needed to be “fixed.”
To make that happen, you need a very strong state or an even stronger religion/ideology that can actually control how people talk. That’s an extremely rare occurrence for spoken languages.
More or less purely written languages, like Classical Sanskrit, are more susceptible to such conscious planning.
weil nicht sein kann[,] was nicht sein darf
(Fixed phrase: “because that which mustn’t be cannot be”.)
You know, I’m not aware of any evidence that Jesus was genetically related to Mary at all. She bore him (and may well have bored him), but it could have been a surrogate thing.
I think you’re forgetting the “wholly human” part again, monophysite heretic. :-) Admittedly, that’s the only “evidence” I can think of.
ofer middangeard monnum sended
“Sent over Middleyard [Miðgarð, and I suppose Middle-Earth] to”… to whom? That’s a dative plural, right? “To men”???
If Mary didn’t do anything but bear Jesus, then why was it necessary to destroy the evidence by assumpting her body and soul into Heaven? That only makes sense in a scenario where recovering Marian DNA would let us clone Jesus.
Sili wins.
Seriously, Sili, you’re smarter than I. You just proved it.
I remember reading a while back that with every pregnancy, a small number of fetal cells do manage to travel into the mother, and just hang around, avoiding the immune system. Your mother’s body will contain your fetal cells and those of your siblings.
So it might have been possible to clone Jesus entirely from a small remnant cell of him in Mary’s body, not just the half of her DNA that Jesus had.
Drat! As I should have expected, Owlmirror pwns us both!
That thing about fetal cells turning loose in the mother is true, BTW.
And it is only the more beautiful because it is a skeptical love: we are taking nothing for granted, as scary as it can be to not lie to ourselves that we are “fated” or that our “This” is permanent, I can be certain that being loved isn’t self-deception. I stand on the side of skeptical, evidence-based love. Who would want love any other way?
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
How many cases are there where democracy was introduced by a foreign invasion without widespread support among the population of the invaded country? Japan counts, but it’s an odd democracy, isn’t it.
Please explain, especially what’s so odd about it.
The (close to) one-party system where almost all changes happen within the Liberal Democratic Party.
Also, if Japan counts, why not Germany or Austria? If you mean that prior to the American occupation, there was no democracy in Japan, then I suggest reading up on Japanese history, especially on what is known as “Taishō Democracy”.
Ah. I will.
Nectocaris was a squid relative.
PZ blogged about this when it was new in May 2010; meanwhile, a lot of doubt about it has returned.
Put a pachyderm (a real one, not just one that mimics the ears and nose) on the throne of England, and I too will support the monarchy.
Wonderful.
Well, as someone who has slung history with the best of them, I can reveal a little secret: anyone who can read can be a historian. In fact, the more you read, the better a historian you can be. Which is where Professor Gingrich runs into trouble.
=8-)
waltonsays
I think my preferred system would be somewhere between modern-day Monaco and modern-day Liechtenstein*: a constitutional monarchy in which the monarch’s power is limited and balanced by an elected parliament and a bill of rights, but in which the monarch holds real executive powers which xe exercises in hir own discretion, and has an actual veto over legislation and the like. So, not an absolute monarchy, but not a purely-ceremonial figurehead monarchy either. The monarch would be the real leader of the country, but hir power would be limited by the constitution and by the need for compromise with the legislature.
(*Though without the established Catholic Church privileges that exist in both countries, obviously.)
David Marjanovićsays
(I should stop geeking out about historical constitutions, though, and try to prepare for my exam tomorrow. But I’m so sleeeepy. And I know nothing and am going to fail. But anyway.)
This sounds familiar from one or two years ago. So…
1) Drink (while preparing for the exam).
2) Eat (while still preparing for the exam).
3) If you’re still sleepy then, sleep. I know it’s only 8 pm where you are; ignore that. Wake up tomorrow morning and finish studying then. By no means take the exam when you’re too tired to remember stuff.
David Marjanovićsays
I think my preferred system would
have a too powerful monarch, just like the POTUS is too powerful for my taste.
But don’t reply to this now. Drink, eat, sleep. :-)
… you can demonstrate real activism in the political system at a level and in a way which contributes substantially and realistically to improving the things you are complaining about.
Minimally this means voting strategically in primaries, but that is not really enough. You also have to vote thoughtfully and strategically for candidates at all levels, because they grow up and run for higher office. If you don’t like the system, i.e., want more parties or want runoff voting, you have to actually do things which involve hours of your time over the course of a year and some of your money, to work towards those things.
And so on.
Perhaps you are doing all that, and if so, good for you. If not, you are whining.
So, which is it? And are you really going to vote for Gingrich if he is the alternative to this president you seem to disdain?
Ah so you can’t complain that Obama isn’t perfect unless you yourself are perfect.
That’s nowhere close to demanding perfection, Ing. That’s the absolute minimum of responsible participation in electoral politics.
yes. After the Meiji restoration, Japanese scholars were sent out to the West to study constitutional systems, military organisation, sciences etc.
There was a faction that wanted a Westminster style democracy, but that was rejected as granting parliament too much power. (To this day there are politicians wanting to introduce a Westminster system in Japan, though today for different reasons than in the 1880s. The former PM Kan Naoto led a delegation to the UK a couple of years ago to study the modern Westminster system.)
Though since Japan wasn’t a federation like the Second Reich, they did end up copying the House of Lords as the second chamber.
The Meiji constitution gave all men over 15 who had paid more than 15 yen in taxes the right to vote (this was modeled after the Prussian system), and the abolition of the tax requirements was one of the major demands of the aforementioned liberal movement. This happened in stages:
– 1900: decreased to 10 Yen
– 1919: decreased to 3 Yen (~80% of males over 25)
– 1925: abolition
unfortunately, the Mukden Incident of 1931 marked the beginning of militarism in Japan.. (the era of course ended in 1926 with the death of the Taishō Emperor).
Since Walton must study, I won’t take the bait this time about seemingly perfect monarchist constitutions (Liechtenstein, bah), but instead will “throw” him a monarchist tidbit:
Did you know that for a 1000 years, Japanese emperors and crown princes only married wives from the five families of the Fujiwara clan, because the Empress should be be able to claim divine descent as well? The Fujiwara had held political power during the Heian era, but then fell out of power just like the Imperial family, to which they were closely related.
The Shōwa Emperor was the first to violate this rule in modern times. His wife was a mere daimyo’s daughter.
And no crown prince has married a noblewoman since.
waltonsays
have a too powerful monarch, just like the POTUS is too powerful for my taste.
Just a quick response, and then I’ll go take a shower and rest…
I think that depends on the details of the constitution. In relation to domestic affairs, prime ministers in Westminster parliamentary systems, assuming that the governing party has a large majority in legislature and can push its legislative agenda through, are often markedly more powerful than the POTUS, who constantly has to compromise with an often-hostile Congress. (This is probably less true of prime ministers in European countries with proportional electoral systems and permanent coalition, admittedly.)
The POTUS does have far, far, far too much untrammelled power in relation to foreign affairs and the military, but that’s a result of two constitutional problems. One is that the Constitution gives the POTUS vastly excessive powers in those areas: his role as Commander-in-Chief lets him do basically whatever he wants with the military, including deploying troops overseas without a Congressional declaration of war. The other is that the federal courts show reflexive deference to the executive whenever questions of military and foreign policy are involved, owing to the “political question doctrine” and the like, and (wrongly, IMO) believe that the separation of powers requires them to defer to the President’s judgment on those issues. (Interestingly, this is much less true in Israel, the only other sort-of-democratic country that’s constantly at war; the Israeli Supreme Court has been very proactive in reviewing the legality of executive military decisions for compliance with national and international law, although its conclusions aren’t usually particularly liberal. But I digress.)
So in my hypothetical constitution, I’d avoid this issue with a combination of provisions. The monarch would be head of the executive and would have traditional executive powers, including power over foreign relations and the military, but there would be an explicit constitutional ban on deploying troops or engaging in any kind of military action without approval of the legislature. In addition, the UN Charter, the ICCPR and other fundamental international treaties would be integrated into domestic law and directly enforceable in the domestic courts (as they are in some European countries), so, among other things, military action that breached international law (i.e. that was not either self-defence or a multilateral peacekeeping effort authorized by the Security Council) would be unconstitutional under domestic constitutional law. I’d probably also add an express constitutional commitment to peace and neutrality in international conflicts, as is found in some neutral countries’ constitutions. The monarch’s power in domestic affairs would also, of course, be limited by the legislature: as in most countries, passing primary legislation, levying taxes and approving the government budget would require the consent of the legislature. And then there would be an independent judiciary with life tenure, which would be able to review the monarch’s actions for compliance both with the constitution and with international treaties, which, as per above, would be directly enforceable in domestic law.
The (close to) one-party system where almost all changes happen within the Liberal Democratic Party.
This looks to me like a simplistic view of post-war Japanese history.
There was a chaotic period from 1945-1955, where a number of coalitions ruled Japan in quick succession. The LDP was the result of a consolidation of conservative and liberal parties. This never changed, the LDP never had a unified political platform, it was always an agglomeration of different political factions.
There were always vibrant oppositions parties such as the Socialists, and the Communists, that made their voices heard within the system.
In 1993, where the LDP fell from power, and even though it entered government again in 1994, it never held power alone again, except for a brief period in 1998.
I can find examples in many other countries where one party or one coalition nominally held power for long periods of time:
– the iron grip of the Democratic power on the US Congress (1954-1995)
– the Grand Coalition in Austria (1945-1966, 1987-2000, 2007-)
– the magic formula eternal coalition in Switzerland
so why would just Japan be “odd”, and those other three not?
oh and not to forget the epochal change of power that occurred in 2009, sweeping the Democratic Party to power, with a coalition of Social Democrats and New People’s Party.
Even though the DPJ hasn’t been all that great, it’s far from certain that the LDP will be able to get back to power, the electorate is fed up with them. A number of new parties are proliferating right now, these are exciting times in Japanese politics.
The Meiji constitution gave all men over 25 who had paid more than 15 yen in taxes the right to vote (this was modeled after the Prussian system), and the abolition of the tax requirements was one of the major demands of the aforementioned liberal movement. This happened in stages:
– 1900: decreased to 10 Yen
– 1919: decreased to 3 Yen (~80% of males over 25)
– 1925: abolition
unfortunately, the Mukden Incident of 1931 marked the beginning of militarism in Japan.. (the era of course ended in 1926 with the death of the Taishō Emperor).
Also, universal suffrage to all citizens 20 years and older only came in 1945, thanks to the American-dictated constitution.
janinesays
Orff’s Trionfi makes Jayne howl. Metallica doesn’t.
Try Lulu. I dare you. I double dog dare you!
If that does not work, move on to Metal Machine Music.
Have you played The Ballad Of Jayne for it’s namesake?
Owlmirrorsays
Stop being so cynical.
The passage I quoted from continues:
======
They assumed the universe was imperfect because it was obviously not set up for the convenience of domesticated primates.
The universe was not even designed for the convenience and comfort of the six-legged majority on Terra. The convenience and comfort of planetside species has very little to do with the cosmic drama.
A few of the primates had realized this. They were known as cynics.
======
Which I think amusing regardless of whether or not Walton used the term in awareness of the text.
Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaidensays
@217
Regarding orcs and Mordor –
yes, northwestern Mordor is a bleak, bleak place with little water. However, it was occasionally washed by floods and/or winds which sent the ill-secured soil rushing off the plateau of Gorgoroth down onto the plains of Nurn, where the volcanic soil and good water led to plenty. They even had their own great lake (about lake Michigan-sized, IIRC, tho’ it may have been bigger…) which was apparently highly productive in food terms. Now, the Nazgul vale had bad water which tended to kill those who drank from it, but the reasons for this poisonous property were not clear and were in several instances clearly indicated to be magical. Now whether the *cause* of the poison was magical or whether the *poison itself* is magical was, AFAIK, not made clear. But the important point is that except for the most NW portion of the already NWern part of of Mordor was truly inhospitable to life. Even significant portions of Gorgoroth could support some life.
I tend to think of a good RL analog as Dallol AKA the Danakil depression in the Great Rift Valley = Udun + Orodruin’s immediate surroundings, while Dankalia/ Danakalia = greater Gorgoroth… this would make the Awash river drainage basin = to the plains of Nurn, although it would be even a better parallel if the elevations and the direction of water flow were reversed so that the Dallol was a highland waste and not a lowland waste and the moist highland lake source of the Awash was a lowland basin receiving the river.
But in any case, the orcs were hard put, but not because the Morgal Vale, Udun and greater Orodruin couldn’t support life (tho’ they couldn’t), but because of the political leadership. Tolkien is very explicit that the orcs were tortured into being. These were “fallen elves” that were mercilessly twisted through both foul use and foul magics, with the magic ensuring that the desired orkish characteristics were heritable (and inherited).
I have much pity for the orcs and always remember when I role play that the vast majority of orcs were, in fact, fishers and farmers of the Nurn. Mordor very specifically “gathered them to war” and “armed them”. These would not be necessary if the orcs were constantly violent.
Now it should be said that the orcs were racist and cared little for the harm done to others. Thus, when orc-lands and the lands of others were adjoining, they would freely raid if they thought they could get away with it and derive profit in the raiding. But this was built into them by evil magics and also generally didn’t apply to stable populations of orcs relating to each other. Orc didn’t raid orc if all the orcs were of one “race” of orcs with a stable local power structure. Otherwise they would kill themselves and wouldn’t be able to reproduce in ways that were useful to the evil powers of Middle Earth.
Thus the violence of the Orc is much exaggerated. And, unfortunately, your sympathy for the orc, while well placed, would benefit neither you nor the orcs if it led you to provide food to them. Mordor’s north imported it from Mordor’s south, and elsewhere the orcs lived very much like humans, though with a greater emphasis on eating meat, and thus hunting and animal husbandry than traditional farming.
In my role playing game worlds, the orcs have developed very different farming practices from other races because they depend so much on meat protein. In most fields there is no monocrop, but rather a carefully selected group of crops that repel insects and provide nutritious growth at different times of the year. This is a highly cultivated browse that allows for maximum growth of the herd animals they like to eat. Hircines are the main food, though ovines and bovines also figure in the food supply. In temperate climes they tend to slaughter, smoke and salt most of the males during the time coinciding with humans’ harvesting of fall crops so that they are only feeding those animals that they intend to keep alive through the full winter. Porcines are hunted rather than farmed, and thus wild boars are encouraged to live wooded lands not used for farming. The orcs with good water supplies make strong shallow-water sailors, but their tendency towards immediate gratification makes them unlikely to engage in deep-water fishing that requires more than 16 hours in a boat. As such, they have few ships per se, instead relying on craft that have no sleeping spaces. When living along major waterways, they sometimes have barges that include sleeping spaces so that the barge can travel 24 hours/day, but they are more likely to simply trade with passing humans (again, the immediate gratification) than bring goods to market themselves.
of course, traveling a major waterway that borders (or passes through) orc lands can be dangerous for non-orcs. The orcs show enlightened self interest in not attacking often enough, predictably enough, or sufficiently high-profile targets. They do, however, occasionally send out small craft near a narrows to overwhelm a barge or two, slaughter those aboard (no witnesses to finger them) and take whatever is on board. This is most likely to happen, however, when orcs experience food shortage.
Remember: it is not in the nature of selfish people to attack others frequently. Selfishness means valuing oneself and engaging in violence risks harm to oneself. Thus only when another threat (starvation, for instance, but also need for tribute to pay to powerful enemies to avoid a disadvantageous conflict and similar predicaments) is present will orcs attack…and then only at a time and in a manner as to minimize risk to the orcs doing the attacking.
Thus large numbers of orcs in surprise attacks on small prey. Because of this, there is also not much loot to be had. Save for the deaths of loved ones who pass along or through orc territory, living near orcs has little cost for a society.
However, living near **Sauron** has great costs for a society – not least orc society.
janinesays
However, living near **Sauron** has great costs for a society – not least orc society.
But imagine what it would be like if Sauron had to abide in a constitutional monarchy. Why, it would be magical!
consciousness razorsays
One is that the Constitution gives the POTUS vastly excessive powers in those areas: his role as Commander-in-Chief lets him do basically whatever he wants with the military, including deploying troops overseas without a Congressional declaration of war.
The Constitution itself gives him no such powers. Various laws (and interpretations thereof) since are what have allowed the POTUS to do it, but it can be argued that these are not Constitutional. In any case, even with the broken system we have, the POTUS will not be able to conduct any old military action he or she wishes without legislative approval. If the Congress does not appropriate funds for it, then the extent of the POTUS’ powers as Commander-in-Chief is fairly limited. In reality Congress does appropriate the funds, but is not willing to admit it iseffectively “declaring war” by throwing boatloads of money at the Defense department.
The monarch would be head of the executive and would have traditional executive powers, including power over foreign relations and the military, but there would be an explicit constitutional ban on deploying troops or engaging in any kind of military action without approval of the legislature.
[Article I, Section 8]
The Congress shall have Power […]
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy; To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces; To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Except it doesn’t reference any beings with magical blood who inherently don’t want power like normal people.
Sandiseattlesays
Wow, bunch of Hitchens bashing on the menu at CPP.
waltonsays
The Constitution itself gives him no such powers. Various laws (and interpretations thereof) since are what have allowed the POTUS to do it, but it can be argued that these are not Constitutional.
Sure, yes. I should have clarified that I was referring to that provision as interpreted, in practice, by the federal courts and by actual executive practice. I agree with you that what has happened in practice is likely far removed from the intention of the framers. Of course, in the eighteenth century no one could reasonably have envisioned the bloated military establishment that exists today.
(There are, of course, many more of these grey areas. Like the practice, favoured by Nixon, of entering into “executive agreements” – which can be binding treaties under international law, but are not regarded as “treaties” for the purposes of US constitutional law and hence don’t require ratification by the Senate.)
Have you played The Ballad Of Jayne for it’s namesake?
Of course! Actually, that had a lot to do with his name change. I was watching Firefly one night, shot a sour look at Jayne (then Matoska) and said “I should have named you Jayne.” He came over and sat by me, being perfectly behaved for a change.
Every time we’ve watched Jaynestown, he’s sat up when the ballad starts and wags his tail like crazy. He has a lot in common with Jayne – he’s huge, can easily be menacing and is seriously dumber than a bag of hair.
janinesays
Walton, get off of the web now.
janinesays
Does he have a gun named Vera and wears a seriously goofy hat? And can he be bought off?
janinesays
That scene where Mal and Zoey buys Jayne away from the gang is one of my very favorites from that show.
Does he have a gun named Vera and wears a seriously goofy hat? And can he be bought off?
He’s not allowed guns, his favourite toy is named Vera and he has been seen in a goofy hat. He can easily be bought off, for serious cheap…we’re talkin’ a biscuit here.
Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaidensays
After I asserted that Nurnen was approximately the same size as Lake Michigan, I got curious as to how accurate a comparison that was.
Turns out Lake Michigan is substantially larger that Nurnen would be if Nurnen, y’know, existed.
There’s no good Great Lake comparison. Lake Ontario is closest, but Ontario is longer and narrower. Nonetheless, Ontario is probably larger in surface area. Nurnen is described as particularly deep by Tolkien and Ontario has an average depth of 83m, max depth of 244m. This is not super-deep as large lakes go.
Not that all this matters, but I asserted something above that turns out to be massively wrong.
there isn’t a great parallel, but I imagine that if you multiplied lake Malawi’s width by 2.5 and divided its length by 2.5 you’d have something like Nurnen, with total surface area being a relatively good match for the maps given by Tolkien and the depth (706m, max) being a better match for my subjective idea of a “deep” “sea” (Tolkien used the word sea and the concept of “inland sea” to describe Nurnen which is part of what makes merely a moderately deep lake like Ontario seem an insufficient analog for the water volume of Nurnen).
Given the number of people that Malawi (the lake, not the country) supports, it’s hard to imagine orcs having a food supply whose constraints are natural rather than technological, social, or political.
Anyone know what happens to the North Korean government now that he’s dead?
Dr. Audley Z. Darkheart, liar and scoundrelsays
Janine:
But he lives on the the hearts of the people of glorious North Korea.
Let’s face it, fuck all is going to change with Kim Jung-Il’s death and Kim Jung-Un’s ascension to power. He’ll live on because no one’s life in North Korea is going to get any better.
(Would it be distasteful of me to mention that this is an excellent argument against hereditary monarchies?)
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
The Batshit Crazy Dictator is Dead!
Long Live the Batshit Crazy Dictator!
(I wonder if the hair will transfer to the new BCD?)
janinesays
(Would it be distasteful of me to mention that this is an excellent argument against hereditary monarchies?)
I don’t think that his son has had opportunity to consolidate enough power.
There’s an Old Guard, but Kim Jong-Il had been said to be trying to rein them in.
Both North Korea and South Korea hope that the regime won’t just collapse.
Here’s some background, apologies for it being form the Daily Telegraph
Yeah there is also Syria’s Assad. Also working out very well….. hm..
Isn’t Kim Il-Sung still the Eternal President or something?
(looks up Wiki…
ah yes,
공화국의 영원한 주석
The Eternal Chairman of the Republic
is Kim Il-Sung’s official title now
janinesays
I guess my question is answered. Thank you, pelamun.
cicely, Disturber of the Peassays
1) Jesus would TOTALLY have secreted human chorionic gonadotropin, monophysite heretic.
2) Would Mary’s corpus luteum react to divine chorionic gonadotropin? Do humans have receptors for that? Huh? Huh??
*snortle!gargle!cough!wheeze!*
No, it’s okay. Really. Diet Coke is exceptionally good at flushing the sinuses. *coughcoughwheeze*
–
I wish we could add the debate between David M. and ChasCPeterson (362) to the billboard in question.
Or put it up on another billboard just slightly further down the road.
(There’s a joke just begging to be made about the “accidents” of the Divine Pregnancy.)
–
And we could include Owlmirror’s 391, too.
:D
–
Stop being so cynical. :-p Monarchy is so much more… magical than that.
And it comes in two magical flavors; 1) clerical magic, passed down from On High in the Divine Rite of Kings, and 2) sorcerous magic, which gives us Enchantress Queens and Sorcerer Kings. (I suppose that royalty of a demi-human race could multi-class, Cleric/Magic-User-wise; but I digress.) They pull from entirely different spell lists, and only the clerically-crowned are allowed to have a decent attack matrix. More hit points, too. On the other hand, when the sorcery-based get levelled up past 4th level, and that first Fireball spell comes on-line, it’s all over but the sweeping up.
–
ibyeasays
@janine
Kim Il Sung is North Korea’s president for eternity. Even though he is dead. Yeah…
they acknowledged his death, but abolished the office of president*) and made a dead man “Eternal President”…
*) “Chairman” is ChineseCommunese for “president”, 主席
ibyeasays
As for Kim Jong Il’s death, yeah, I won’t miss him at all. Fuck him.
Brother Ogvorbis, OM . . . Really?says
So when the universe is cold and dark, when the stars are all burnt-out cinder, Kim Il Sung and his Magic Hair will still be the President of the nonexistent country of North korea on the long swallowed-by-the-sun Earth?
I really need to start doing drugs.
janinesays
if we wanted to be pedantic:
We must! We must!
That gives a much more clear idea of how that government wants the dead Kims to be seen.
I managed to make a cuttlefish. I’m happy and now I’m out. G’night all.
ibyeasays
@Ogvorbis
Hey, it is not like it is more insane than God sending himself to kill himself to appease himself and change some ridiculous rules he made himself.
history has shown time and again that entities allegedly meant to last forever or for 1000 years (das tausendjährige Reich, 12:1000 is quite a misproportion) actually turned out to last considerably shorter…
Once N.K. collapses, be it in 1 year, 10 or 100, the successor regime will probably abolish the office of Eternal Chairman…
Curiously, the ancient Romans were moderately democraticish(*) for a while and they seriously hated kings. So as the republic fell, names like “dictator” and “imperator” were used as the more acceptable terms. A “king” was de facto evil, but a dictator was just some dude in the job of telling people what to do. And eventually the dynastic name Caesar morphed into Kaiser and Czar… A king, by any other name. Sic semper tyrannis.
(*) Well OB-viously no women or slaves or foreigners could vote. Duh.
janinesays
Sic semper tyrannis.
Careful with that axe, Eugene. For the US, that statement has a very specific meaning. And it is embraced by neo-confederates.
Though the constitutional system keeps changing through the centuries, so it’s a topic hard to discuss, but:
– it took quite some time for Latins (? what’s the English word for inhabitants of Latinum) to get the vote.
– the nobility was basically hogging the cursus honorum. I don’t know if there was a law against it, but I guess the fact that the offices were unpaid (or lowly paid) made sure that only patricians could effectively run for office.
– I don’t think any Roman emperor used the title of dictator after Caesar made himself Dictator for life. I mean that didn’t end exactly well. Also, the office of dictator was pretty clearly defined in the Republic, and usually limited to half a year. (Usually the offices like the consulship were based on the principle of collegiality, i.e. there were always two of them and needed to take decisions together, and they were elected annually. In times of need, however, this wouldn’t be effective enough, so the office of dictator was created)
So about the monophysite heresy thing. Suppose for a second that Mary was a surrogate mother for a wholly divine embryo with no actual human gametic input whatsoever (“omnipotent”, OK?). God the Father, a given. The Mother, then?
That’s when I thought about Mr. Deity & Lucy…of course! Yin and yang.
Surely this was a Deep Mystery of some ancient cult or sect or secret society. Aleister Crowley would know what I’m talking about, and probably RA Wilson too.
He won’t be particularly missed for his singing.
Nietzsche didn’t like alcohol, for the pedantry.
Glen Davidson
Nice cephalopods and jellyfish, Caine! :)
Next year….
*returns to Sininsterly Porpoising*
(Which is actually taking up quite a lot of my brain’s back-burner time. Every now and then, it’ll barf up another “take” on it, and I add another stickynote to the growing pile.
And I dreamed about jellyfish all night long.)
–
I saw someone say “carpe diem” last thread. It’s a nice sentiment, but there’s more! I recently read the poem that the saying comes from in Latin class. The rest of that sentence goes like this:
Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
Seize the day, trusting as little as possible to the next.
I like it better with the rest of the sentence.
Oh fuck, I need to postpone the whisky, I’m really ill.
I’m sitting here shivering although I’m warmly dressed and the flat is heated
oh no, Giliell! Sorry you’re sick. Sending you chicken soup vibes. ;)
*ERK*
I have nothing to say about Hitchens that hasn’t already been said. The latest rapologist thread has also left me flabbergasted.
Instead, I will report trivia. I have entered my grades. The semester is over. What’s more, all the headdesking and facepalming have done little to alter my craniofacial integrity. So there’s that.
Monday I start putting together my fucking tenure packet* instead of writing up some really unbelievable results. In essence, I will once more be mowing the lawn while the other kids play kickball. That’ll be a hoot. However, I have no beg-a-thon planned for the break. So there’s that too**.
*Advice is welcome. Like if there are any seniorish professors about.
**Counting my blessings and whatnot.
I was arguing with theists on the Hitchens post on boingboing and I thought… I kind of miss pharyngula a little. Maybe I’ll go back there for today.
I hate it when I realize that I *love* arguing some times and damn it… people just don’t appreciate that in some spheres.
Tell me about it, Algernon. On the rare occasions when I argue with someone anywhere else, I’m surprised at how quickly the person who said the dumb thing just howls in confused outrage at the very act of openly disagreeing. It makes me wonder how they form opinions in the first place.
theophontes,
if we take the traditional view of Chinese history: whenever a dynasty lost the mandate of heaven, it was the divine right of peasants to rise up and overturn its rule – the one exception in Confucianism where the “inferior” is allowed to change the order of things.
But in more modern terms: the CPCh has been trying to spread the wealth in order to secure its rule. It has created a middle class vested in the continuation of its rule. But as the economic divide widens, the potential for an explosion increases. I think the CPCh needs to rethink its policies regarding the hukou system, and also improve conditions for migrant factory workers. Last year, there were some encouraging signs. Also, it needs to improve infrastructure on the countryside, in provinces that have been neglected until now. It should also continue to introduce quasi-democratic elections at the village-level, because this can be another safety valve. I’m not sure how widespread relying on thugs is, but that definitely does not sound like a sound long-term strategy.
regarding Hitchens,
I of course do not believe in an afterlife. But “may he/she rest in peace” I thought was a suitable phrase even for atheists to use, just because human beings often need some verbal comfort when something like this occurs. Or do you think the phrase implies a belief in the afterlife?
Pirate Party
anyone remember the spectacular success of the Pirate Party at last time’s Berlin elections? And the fact that they seemed to have a misogyny problem, what with only 1 out of 15 elected MPs being female? Now the Berlin state party org hired a female secretary general, but she turns out to be a major supporter of esoteric woo. (Article in German) She’s a political scientist and an alternative healer, conducting some kind of esoteric healing seminars, and expresses strange ideas about Aids and starvation in her book “You have the power over yourself”. She basically said that when some survivors of a plane crash die of starvation and some don’t it means that those who died “manifested their death because they could not imagine themselves to survive”, and that regarding Aids, actually it’s such nonsense I lack the will to translate, just that Pluto and Uranus play some role. Here’s the quote
I have a question for you guys.
I have a muslim friend that claims that a young boy in Russia (Dagestan) is a miracle because he has skinwriting appearing on his body and the doctors are supposedly baffled (you might remember it from a couple years ago).
Now of course a quick internet search reveals that the most likely cause is probably dermatographic urticaria but as I luckily do not suffer from it I was thinking of using some chili powder to irritate my skin for a more graphic demonstration (something like “skinwriting is not a miracle” or “there is no god”) and thought I would ask you guys about the best way to do it and how painful it is likely to be.
So, any idea how I go about doing that? Simply mix the chili powder with water and dip a small brush in it to use as a writing implement?
Any reason why it might be a horrible idea and I really shouldn’t do it?
Any better idea?
Also, while I am at it, do any of you know of any creationism debunking books targeted towards the muslim flavor(s) of creationism?
“Rest in peace” implies either a really boring afterlife or a really extreme form of ‘rest’. One.
I already put this out on another thread but people need to be see this.
After the seizure of some climate deniers computers and equipment in relation to the infamous Climategate hack, Anthony Watts has sent his flying horde of screaming monkeys to harass and in one instance, so far, issue a death threat over at Greg Laden’s blog. He seems sort of shaken up.
Anthony Watts
Greg Laden
Anthony Watts
Greg Laden
No. No reason at all. Should be fun.
sorry that was “Pluto and Neptune”.
Chas,
well when meant as expressing some kind of respect towards the deceased, the same way the coroner and the police detectives bow to the corpse when conducting an autopsy in Japanese police dramas? It’s not like the corpse would care about this, but it just shows respect to the person the deceased was?
Ah Dagestan, I once spent an evening with some friends, including a young woman from Dagestan. She was a moderate Muslim, unveiled and drinking beer too, a fun person, her father was a visiting professor, and she was pursuing studies in the same field. Then she told us at some point, if her brothers back home knew she was hanging out with strange men, they’d kill us. Not sure if that was Dagestani humour, or serious….
My Latin is pretty rubbish and just barely remembered, but I love this:
(Martial)
I know there are lots of “proper” translations for this, but never mind … (nearly literally, I think):
“It is not, believe me, of the wise to say “I shall live”. Too late is the life of tomorrow; live today.”
Which Hitch did, more than most.
I was just kidding, but if you think about it, “rest in peace” taken literally seems to be more of a hope that the deceased doesn’t become a zombie, vampire, or ghost-eternally-wandering-the-Earth-unfulfilled than anything relevant to (most) specific religions.
Julien Rousseau @ #11: I have rather excellent dermatographic urticaria, I could likely do that up myself with the blunt end of a bobby pin. It’d be a lot easier than applying chili to yourself.
Feel better soon, Giliell! *sends internet tea and soup*
Chas,
sure I agree that the origin might come from that, but I understood PZ’s memorial post also to be calling out against using language such as this, and hence my desire to discuss on TET..
Taken this way, “rest in peace” sounds like a reasonable request.
I agree.
–
Get well soon, Giliell. *hug*
–
Hi, Algernon! *waves*
–
More along the lines of the quote from Salem’s Lot: “God grant he lie still”.
–
though it seems it comes from the funeral liturgy of the Catholic Church, based on Isaiah 57,2
Acc to the Pffft, the Hebrew version has been found on tombstone dating back to the 1st c. BCE.
(May his soul and the souls of all the departed faithful by God’s mercy rest in peace.)
Irrespective of the religious connotations, I like the idea of expressing respect to the deceased by using a formula like this. Maybe there’s something else which can equally convey this kind of emotion? Else I’ll be stuck with “rest in peace”…
oh yes, gute Besserung, Giliell!
maybe “honour to his/her memory”?
They’ve pressganged James Annan, too! Will these people stop at nothing?
Chas–
If yer still around, did you catch the Browns/Stillers last week? It was much more exciting than I anticipated.
My ethics made me actually ill. I was at a restaurant with colleagues and got a turkey sandwich. I felt sick partway through the first piece and now deeply regret getting it.
Could someone down a shot for me in Hitch’s honor? I can’t drink :(
I’ve always liked, “May the legacy of your good deeds outlast your failings.” I don’t remember where I read it. I read too much to do so.
I know the feeling. That’s what first drew me here, after all.
so pathetic that’s it’s kinda cute
Chinese government about to require users of weibo, the Chinese imitation of Twitter, to register their real names…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16212578
The only afterlife any of us have is the memories in the minds of those we have touched and the good or bad we have done in the world. Christopher Hitchens, you have touched many people, far more people than you know, and your good works have given you as close to immortality as any sentient being could wish.
Goodbye.
sorry, to clarify: weibo is not a specific website like Twitter is, but the Chinese calque of the English word “micro-blog”. So China is trying to regulate all domestic microblogging services, while presumably blocking foreign ones, though the blocking is on and off, and circumventable by the technically savvy.
@Giliell, more well wishes and digital soup headed your way.
Oh, and if you thought the Ohio woman who put up a white only sign on duplex pool was bad for justifying it by claiming black women’s hair products would cause problems, she’s apparently doubled down.
Now, not only is it her right to authorize who among her tenants can use the pool based on race, the sign is hunky dorey because it’s “historical” (an old sign from the 30s in Alabama). Plus she has to “stand up for her white rights.”
LOL! I like this.
Next time I start to say RIP I think I will say “I miss you but now that you’re dead I sure don’t want to see you again”
Gyaaa. Killing time in the Natural History museum. Adorable little girl and parents are in the dinosaur room. Mum tells her daughter “dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time. Creationists suck.
I have ancestors from my maternal grandfather’s side of the family who owned a plantation in Tennessee. (That land now houses a prison and some of my distant southern relatives have worked there as prison guards. It is like something from a TC Boyle novel.) If I were to find shackles and a whip that came from that plantation and a descendant of the people my ancestors held in bondage, chained and whipped that person; could I make the claim that I am being historical?
Fuuuuuuck. That is the kind of time when I blatantly, shamelessly use my children to be passive-aggressive, and do things like walk up to those people and really loudly say to mine “Of course, dinosaurs lived several hundred million years before people, which we know thanks to several different types of evidence. Don’t be silly honey, the Flintstones is just a funny tv show!”
I wonder if that White Only landlady takes her tenants’ Black money.
chigau: I don’t.
my google-fu is failing me: I seem to remember that Julian Assange admitted to having sex with one of the two women while she was asleep, while claiming this was no rape, which of course is wrong. But does anyone with better google-fu actually know if he officially admitted that?
I only found some Swedish internet discussion that claimed that he had admitted it, but this was contradicted by others that he didn’t say anything on the matter.
I’m asking because if such a statement can be found, the issue would be clear-cut. If he didn’t say anything I still think from all these other pieces of evidence it can be argued that enthusiastic consent did not occur. But if he indeed admitted it, this alone would be enough to have a case.
Speaking of Twitter. Did you know that God is Not Great is offensive, but ReasonsToBeatYourGirlfriend is Hi-larious? Twitter thinks so!
Apparently so!
I am amazed how easily people like this can reconcile “I’m not racist” with needing to “stand up for white rights.”
*Brain explodes*
Another mormon ponzi scheme wilts when revealed as a scam.
Excerpt:
According to the article in the Salt Lake Tribune, this mormon father and son team ripped people off to the tune of about $200 million.
On another subject: I’ve been arguing with some ex-mormons who left mormonism only to become ensnared in some form or other of Christianity. These persons, who have a questionable grasp of logic, are using the occasion of Christopher Hitchens’s death to postulate that all of us hero-worshipping atheists would abandon our atheism if Hitchens told us to do so.
From a New York Times article:
Christians are insisting that their argument about Hitchens possibly swaying his followers to become believers is “serious!”
I’m coming back to the haven that is Pharyngula and staying here. Even if dolts postulate Hitchens leading deluded atheists unto Christ, someone will hammer that nonsense mercilessly.
If you are suffering from a dearth of Crazy-Mormon-Beliefs, just go here to get a fresh hit:
http://www.top10craziestmormonbeliefs.com/a/54
Example:
Example:
The Sailor, thanks.
Cicely:
Thanks, Cicely! I got six more made last night. :)
TAKE ME TO HELL. PLEASE!!!!!
I haven’t read much of Hitchens’ stuff, but what I have read, I like. He will be missed. And – with regards to himself – he’s not in pain anymore. I don’t know how much he suffered towards the end, but he’s not anymore. Perhaps that’s a comfort to some.
WRT to the discussion of non-religious things to say when someone dies, I’ve always liked what a relative arranged for his own tombstone to say: “The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne.” (yes, that’s how it’s spelled – hooray for Chaucer!)
A variant in Latin, Ars longa, vita brevis (“art is long, life is short”), and in Greek, Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή (“life is short, art is long”) I also like, but somewhat less so.
Dunno.
Feel better Giliell! I’m sending soup and bread.
Everyone, I’ll be heading from the Albany, NY area to the Rochester, NY area on Sunday and returning Tuesday. If people who are (1) along the route (aka I-90) or (2) in Rochester want to do something, let me know.
Gotta go sign the official paperwork for my new job! *dances*
We’ve got a mormon infestation in my neighborhood. They’re always trying to talk to people.
Twice now I’ve been going to the store to buy smokes, eyes right infront of me, minding my own business, and these assholes have tried to talk to me.
All done up in their identical business suits (yeah, that’s a great way to earn my trust. *snort*) strolling around the neighborhood trying to bother people.
I’m lucky, I wield THE POWER OF INFINITE RUDENESS, but most people are too nice to tell these patsies to fuck off, and that is what they’re banking on. High pressure sales tactics for the afterlife.
Sometimes, the juvenile side of me is really tempted to go egg their church.
Hey all.
I just received a ‘Christmas card’ from the Salvation Army. I know they have some very questionable practices and I want to respond to them regarding my disagreement.
Does anyone know of a good resource for facts on their anti-gay stance etc.?
Easy. They’re culturally programmed to say “I’m not racist”, because, in our society, openly admitting to being racist is considered bad form. Yet they are, in fact, racist. (Hence the entire phenomenon of “I’m not racist but…” And hence why even far-right nationalist parties usually deny that they are racist.)
Loud, yeah: their own published materials.
Walton: I’ve always seen it more as ‘Racism is hating on another race for no reason. I have an actual reason for not letting black people into my pool, so I’m not racist!’.
Something along those lines, at least.
The Laughing Coyote –
One of my closest friends is a Jehovah’s Witness. She’s one of those Pollyanna sort of people – always friendly, rarely says anything bad about other people, etc.
But, this one time, I was talking about people who knock on doors to talk about god and mentioned the Jehovah’s Witnesses with the suits and backpacks, blah blah blah
She damn near ripped my head off saying: THOSE are MORMONS! We are NOT like THAT!
Which, is of course not true, since she herself does the knocking on doors thing, but I got a kick out of the fact that she was so offended by my mistaking one door-knocking cult for another. LOL
(For those that might be wondering – we became friends despite both of us knowing about our being on the complete opposite ends of the faith spectrum – because we’re both outsiders during the holiday season. They don’t celebrate and I don’t participate in public christmas activities. Both of these things have caused both of us some ostracizing in the past. She really does rock though and I love her to bits, despite the goddyness).
Illuminata: I hear you. I have a circle of christian friends, used to do bible study with them. I told them all “I’m done with god and christianity, but I still like you well enough,” and they still invite me to get togethers and christmas parties and stuff.
I think for a lot of them, they really are convinced that all goodness ‘comes from God’. I also think some of them are starting to warm up to the idea that yes, humans are imperfect and selfish beings, but compassion, empathy, and ethics are still a ‘human’ thing.
I like to think that by being an active Godhater who’s still big on compassion and empathy, I might just be giving them some things to think about regarding faith.
OTOH, almost all of them are incredibly quick on the draw with the ol’ worn out ‘No TRUE christian’ thing. It’s very frustrating.
I’m done with exams! Fuck yeah! And I got $100 for my text books :D
Jerusalem is sooooo fscked.
I see the missionaries arriving on their bicycles. They will leave their helmets on because of the the flying debris.
Jerusalem and the mormon Elders are both fucked.
I think that all you have to do to make certain that Hell (a.k.a. Outer Darkness) is your destination is to reject the book of mormon no matter how much it makes your bosom burn.
In case anyone is interested, I have just stumbled upon this news story about David Cameron declaring that the UK is a christian nation and claiming that religion has a place in British politics.
Even with his vague platitudes about accepting those of other faiths and none, as a UK based atheist, this Priministerial endorsement of religion in government still worries me somewhat. Meaning no disrespect to all the North American Pharyngulites, this is more the kind of stuff you expect to hear about in the US, not from UK politicians.
I never could stand Cameron, and here is yet another reason why he should never have become PM.
I just stepped downstairs to pick up some coffee cream for my coworkers, and the convenience store owner, whom I’m pretty sure is a devout Christian (or perhaps an atheist) given his penchant for reading books about the bible, wished me a Happy Holidays while I simultaneously wished him a Merry Christmas.
He then hurried to wish me a Merry Christmas in response. He’s a very nice fellow; I hope he didn’t think I was correcting him about my beliefs—I was merely trying to sincerely wish him a joyful instance of the holiday I for some reason think he celebrates.
Awkward.
This accommodationism is hard. Next time I’ll just laugh in his face and shout him down, as we Gnus are known to do.
High pressure sales tactics in this life. That’s what makes mormon missionaries such good employees for Ponzi scheme companies and MLMs.
Hitch had a good run, the luxury of both exploring those things he desired and communicating his experiences to a wide audience. He was listened to, sought out even, for his opinions and delivery, and he made many impressions on both close and distant people. A life to celebrate. I think the three finger salute is sufficient, make mine rum ’cause that’s what I drink in December.
Today must be opposite day. I have local Utah/gay news that leaves me frustrated with GLSEN and the Utah Pride Center, and happy with a Utah County public school. WTF
To summarize:
1. Some students at a Willowcreek Middle School were given an assignment that was described as an advertisement about themselves that would be on display in the school.
The student in question decided he wanted to make his a coming out story.
2. The teacher giving the assignment approved the ad, but made sure he understood that it would be publicly displayed and that he wanted to come out to the school.
3. Ad was up.
4. Teachers or teacher’s aides overheard other students speaking negatively about the student and his sexual orientation and was concerned about future bullying.
5. Those students were called into administrator’s offices for anti-gay comments.
6. Administrators also talked to the student about their concerns, stressing the importance of being able to talk about problems with both school officials and his parents (who are, after all, his legal guardians)
7. Student told school officials he was not out to his parents, and was nervous about coming out to them. He did not express any reservations that he would be in danger if he came out, based on all reports.
8. He agreed that the school could bring their concerns about anti-gay bullying from other students to the parents, but requested he not be present at the meeting.
9. Administrators apparently outed him to his parents to explain their concerns about other students’ behavior, but there’s no reporting on how the meeting went specifically.
10. A Facebook page was created by apparent supporters that contained much misinformation, including an allegation that the student was suspended for coming out, which is untrue.
11. News organizations and LGBTQ advocates jumped all over the story as a case of an evil school district outing a student to their parents; some coverage omitted that the student came out publicly altogether. Bad, bad reporting.
12. Student’s parents kept him home from school this week, without comment.
There’s the local coverage, and the statement from GLSEN, but I’m actually kind of pissed off at LGBTQ advocates who are acting as if the school did something terrible. I’m incredibly frustrated because we want schools to be responsible like this, and instead advocacy groups are tearing them to pieces.
Gregory, so, David Cameron is an advocate of antidisestablishmentarianism?
(Sorry, could not resist)
“It belongs in a museum!”
“So do you!”
@Gregory: Cameron’s an idiot, and the whole speech was meaningless silly pablum aimed at pandering to the Daily Mail and the Lord Carey “OMG Christians are so persecuted!!!” brigade.
(Of course it’s true in the most literal sense that the UK is a “Christian country” – that is, legally and constitutionally the UK is a Christian monarchy in which the monarch is crowned and anointed by the Archbishop of Canterbury and swears to uphold the privileges of the Church, and in which there are two established official churches, the Church of England and the Church of Scotland. But this doesn’t seem to be what DC meant, and it’s hardly a novel or interesting observation; especially as, in practice, the UK is one of the more secular countries in the world, church attendance rates are low and most people don’t really give a damn about religion.)
What exactly are “traditional Christian values”? There are thousands of sects of Christianity in the world, and thousands of diverse and contradictory interpretations of “Christian values”; I doubt that, say, Desmond Tutu and Fred Phelps share many identifiable “values” in common. And no particular religion has a monopoly on the social values to which he alludes; nor is there any evidence on which to found the claim that more-religious societies are any happier, more prosperous or more stable than less-religious ones. (I, for one, would rather live in Denmark than in Alabama, say.)
And it’s just nonsense to pretend that Britain has suffered a “moral collapse” as a result of the decline of orthodox Christianity. In the last fifty years, from where I’ve sitting, we’ve made some important moral *advances*; LGBT rights, abolition of the death penalty, access to therapeutic abortion, the end of legal “corporal punishment” (read “beating kids”) in schools, and so on.* I don’t see any obvious respect in which the decline of organized religion has demonstrably made Britain a worse place to live. It’s just a silly meaningless claim.
(*Of course plenty of new abuses have taken their place – like the appalling way the British state treats immigrants and asylum-seekers, something which, incidentally, DC has done precisely nothing to reform since taking office a year-and-a-half ago. But that has no obvious relationship to the decline of organized religion.)
John Morales @ 66;
I know, it doesn’t sound like a real word, does it?
It is one of the constitutional oddities of the UK that, while we have an established church, it is generally accepted that, in this day and age, it should keep its nose out of politics. Indeed, the actual governance of Britain has been really rather secular for quite some time, and it is disturbing that first Baroness Warsi and now Cameron have publically expressed a desire on the part of the Conservative party to shoe-horn religion back into the political process, especially when their ‘reasoning’ as to why this is such a spiffing idea is so fuzzy and frankly patronising.
I do not recognise the supposedly essential importance of religion to contemporary British cultural identity, and the claim that it informs morality is, as we all know, bunkum of the first water. And as for all Cameron’s blather about christianity rendering the UK more accepting of those of other faiths and none, well, it leads me to wonder whether he has recently suffered a severe head trauma. Since when has christianity acted as a catalyst for religious tolerance and freedom of conscience? History would seem to be against the PM on this.
Walton, I love the way christians (especially christian politicians) have been pointing to “moral collapse” for decades. I always thought of “collapse” as something that happened suddenly. Why is this collapse taking so damned long? I wish the moral collapse would hurry up and conclude. I’m sick of hearing about it.
Walton @ 68;
Agreed.
Here’s hoping that is all it is.
To the nasty bigots that infest elements of the CoE, those advances you mention are the ‘moral collapse’ they are so incensed by. The fact that Cameron seems to be cosying up to such people nauseates me.
Katherine – “Mum tells her daughter “dinosaurs and humans lived at the same time. Creationists suck.
Odd that the mom has such ;-)
+++++++++++++++++++++
slignot, I saw that article and a couple of others about it and I Googled her address. (I was trying to find out if she was registered R or D, apparently she’s not registered to vote. I was motivated from a comment discussion on Raw Story about whether she was a republican or not.) And from Google Earth, it sure doesn’t look like the pool is her private pool. She keeps digging herself deep and deeper with the Ohio CRC.
When you’re at the bottom of the (gene) pool? Stop digging;-)
Chigau – “I wonder if that White Only landlady takes her tenants’ Black money.”
Well, the money’s green, and the tenant is apparently white. He was audacious enough to have a mixed race daughter.
+++++++++++++++++++++
I had a good day/bad day kinda day.
Good: I spent an hour polishing and buffing the vintage (read ‘used’) Sabian ride cymabal I bought for my boss and she loved it. It completes her … drum kit.
Bad: I indulged myself last night and bought Twizzlers and Skittles. Today I had my first recurrence of TMJ … since the last time I ate Twizzlers and Skittles. I think I see a pattern here.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sailor,
I love Skittles, but they take me three days to recover from. I relate to your bad.
I ran into two mormon missionaries some months ago and took the chance to learn more about their religion. Needless to say, I did not find their argument very convincing.
I met exactly one mormon that I’d consider a reasonable thinker. The others seemed nice, but a bit crazy. They take a very literal view of scripture, with the usual absurd results.
Arrgh! My “Odd that the mom has such ;-)” was meant to be “Odd that the mom has such diametrically opposed view.”
++++++++++++++
Walton, thank you for your clarification. I did not know about the Church Of Scotland being included.
Santa Claus Is Coming To Town
No one said a thing the first time I linked to it. What do you think?
Slavery, crusades, misogyny, xenophobia, magical thinking, all that good stuff.
@Rey Fox, I think “fear or sex in general” is also a traditional Christian value. Maybe as an extension of the fear or happiness from anything material/physical; a sort of puritanical urge to hate any earthly joy.
All Hail Tpyos.
Afterlife or not, RIP Hitchens. I hope his was a peaceful, painless death.
———————————
Mom is still not feeling very well, so I’ll be hauling ass the next two days doing all the holiday shopping. Fortunately I already have some idea of what I’ll be getting for people, so that just leaves worrying about being able to take care of Mom’s list. I’ll probably have J drop me off at the mall or Best Buy after our date on Sunday.
———————————————
Damn stuffy nose won’t go away. I swear, tomorrow afternoon I am having curry soup for lunch just to get some relief.
It’s complicated.
In England, the established church is the Church of England. The C of E has a range of special privileges: it is the Archbishop of Canterbury who performs the coronation ceremony and presides at royal weddings and funerals, for instance, and C of E bishops and archbishops (the “Lords Spiritual”) sit by automatic right in the House of Lords. The Queen is the “Supreme Governor” of the Church of England, and officially appoints Anglican bishops. (The Prime Minister has the power to advise the Queen on the appointment of bishops. In most cases the PM accepts the recommendation of the nominating committee, but there were a couple of instances under Margaret Thatcher where she rejected nominees who she saw as too left-wing; Lord Carey was the Church’s second choice for Archbishop of Canterbury, for example.) Because of its special association with the monarchy, the C of E is often, wrongly, assumed to be the established church of the whole UK. In fact, it is only the established church of England, not anywhere else.
In Scotland, the established church is the Church of Scotland. It has much less state interference than the C of E, and doesn’t have bishops at all, being a Presbyterian church. The monarch has only a very limited role, but she does appoint a “Lord High Commissioner” (usually a member of the royal family) to attend the Church of Scotland’s annual general assembly.
In Wales, there is no longer an established church at all. The Church of England used to be the established church there, but it was disestablished in 1920. (The ecclesiastical province of Wales in the Church of England was then hived off into a separate church called the “Church in Wales”.) Similarly, Northern Ireland has no established church any more: the (Anglican) Church of Ireland was the established church of the whole of Ireland under British rule until the nineteenth century, but this was an unpopular position (since the vast majority of Ireland is Catholic), and the Church of Ireland was disestablished in 1871.
So… in total, the UK has two established churches. But neither of them have any official status in Wales or Northern Ireland, neither of which has an established church.
The monarch’s coronation oath also includes an explicit promise to uphold the privileges of the Church of England, although it says nothing specific about the Church of Scotland:
Dhorvath, thanks. Not sure what your recovery is from, but today my jaws don’t meet. And we had our lab Holiday luncheon today at a fancy Uni buffet. I pretty much had to limit myself to soft foods and swallowing salads whole. And Death By Chocolate chocolate cake.
There wasn’t enough chocolate. I still managed to overly stuff myself. And that was before I knew my boss was picking up the tab. She paid more for lunch for us than I paid for her (most excellent) cymbal.
We don’t exchange gifts in my lab, I’m not sure what the other labs do. The staff in the Opt School apparently have a ‘Secret Santa’ thing, but it would be odd for the labs to do. We have people from all around the world working in and heading our labs.
I like my Uni, I like my school, I like my job doing research. I was especially reminded of this at lunch. I was surrounded by people of all faiths, colors, creeds … just having lunch in the same room. And not one person said “where’s my iced tea motherfucker”. … ;-) (Do I need to add a FY Bill O’Reilly, or is that a part of saying grace?)
Here’s a Moment of Mormon Madness brought to you by the FLDS, Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints.
As we all know, their Prophet (or profit) Warren Jeffs was given some Texas-sized jail time for raping 12 and 15 year old girls in the name of his brand of sacred marriage.
Now that Warren is in jail and doesn’t get to rape little girls, he thinks it behooves all his followers to be more ascetic as well.
Excerpts from an article about the restrictive rules flowing hot and heavy from Warren’s Jail cell:
Though the Moderator of the General Assembly, the highest official of the Church of Scotland, does have a role at coronations: he or she* presents the monarch with a Bible, saying “Here is wisdom, this is the royal law, these are the lively Oracles of God.” I’m not entirely sure why.
(*The Church of Scotland, unlike the Church of England, has twice been headed by a woman.**)
(**By contrast, making women bishops is still a very controversial issue in the C of E, since the “Anglo-Catholic” wing tends to be opposed to women’s ordination; though this is likely to change over time, as more and more of the hardline conservative Anglo-Catholics accept the Pope’s recent offer in Anglicanorum Coetibus and become actual Catholics. But I digress.)
Thanks to my newfound riches (relatively anyway) I was able to afford a root canal for my long-suffering tooth. Now I’m chilling at home, high on vicodin, and waiting for the tingles in my cheeck to turn into actual sensation. Still drooling a little bit.
The Horde is amazing.
Well, I’m glad you were finally able to get the dental treatment you needed. Though it doesn’t exactly sound like much fun. :-(
Walton, thank you for the info, I really do appreciate it. Tho I have to say I like the American oath of office swearing in better:
Prez: I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
++++++++++++++
Military: “I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
+++++++++++++
Of course it’s ‘more honored in the breach than the observance’ ;-)
Sailor: Well, the British monarch does swear to govern the people in accordance with “their laws and customs”, which is akin to the US President’s oath to uphold the Constitution.
The full text of the royal coronation oath as laid down in the Coronation Oaths Act 1688 is as follows. (Although the oath has been slightly modified over the years to reflect the monarch’s rule over other realms, so the version the Queen took at her coronation is not identical to this one.)
Members of Parliament and other officeholders take an oath of allegiance to the Queen on their appointment, which runs as follows:
I also quite like the oath taken by judges:
Sally, I’m just glad we were able to help. Here’s to your continued good health!
SallyStrange, You have my most deepest sympathies. root canals are supposed to be painless, (“it’s dead Jim”), but fucking expensive as hell. And uncomfortable to the nth degree.
TMI warning:
I haz a problem with opiates because they make me constipated. And my hemorrhoids are a PITA. Catch 22, when I had a thrombectomy the only drugs to kill the ginarmous pain were opiates. AAAArrrrgggh.
That’s normal. In the 18th and 19th centuries, doctors attached to armies normally carried a ball of opium with them. If a soldier complained of loose bowels, they were given a chunk of opium to chew and swallow (oddly, the military history books are rather vague about the doses) to tighten up the stool. I have the same reaction to opiates (not codeine (when I was in the Army, they gave me some codeine and I woke up the next day in a bed in a different part of the hospital — still have no idea what my reaction was, but they added a red tag to my dogs)).
This is the only thing which has brightened up my day about it…
‘Global Secular Humanist Movement’ wrote on facebook:
“I heard Christopher Hitchens had a deathbed conversion. He asked for a priest and converted him to atheism.”
It was mostly painless. But now that the novocaine is wearing off (like literally just now) there’s definite soreness in my jaw.
I could’ve done it on my birthday but I didn’t want to spend my birthday all stoned and sore.
I should tell you about my dentist. He’s awesome. He kinda looks like Kal Penn (Kumar in Harold and Kumar). He’s sarcastic, blunt, and direct. No guilt trips, no fake comfort. “This is gonna hurt. Okay, here we go. Painful pinch on the roof of your mouth! Sorry. Okay, done.” My neighbor down the hall says she still has nightmares about the time when he braced his knee on her shoulder to pull out a tooth.
I like him.
Sally:
When I had my one-and-a-half teeth pulled (one was a failed root canal (make sure you get the post and crown put on or the tooth will crumble)), my dentist was also very realistic. And was willing to swear when it turned out the root was firmly attached to the maxilla. I appreciated his honesty.
And you have my sympathy.
Random amusement of the day:
Watching a Charlie Brown show in which Lucy decides to take away Linus’ blanket because Grandma is coming and won’t like it. I said “But I bet Grandma won’t care and will say it’s fine to have a blanket.” Child replies “Maybe, but all we’ll hear her say is ‘waa-wa-wa-waaa'”.
Too true.
SallyStrange, congrats on the tooth removal! Good luck with the healing.
For Hitch:
When the Sand Runs Out
When We Die
Live Like You Were Dying
Sally, I feel your pain. The novocaine or whatever is wearing off for me. I broke a tooth or the filling or something broke and I needed a new one. Turns out there wasn’t enough tooth left for a filling do I have a crown. Soup for supper, I ended up wearing most of it cause of the lack of feeling. Friday at the dentist, no supper and no beer. Makes work look fun.
My dentist as a warped sense of humor. She looked at my mouth and said her daughter’s tuition is paid for now.
And for me…
(image)
Opiates dehydrate you.
Can anyone explain what’s going on with SC and whatsisname ξ? I have been checking in on that thread periodically, but can’t really follow it. Too spaced.
*catches up*
*hugs Classical Cipher and Giliell for opposite reasons*
[sterile Internet hugs do have their advantages!]
*chocolate, too*
*reads on*
*hugs Ogvorbis and Bill Dauphin & wife for opposite reasons*
*chocolate, too*
*hugs and chocolate for Dhorvath and Ing*
*…*
*grabs a random onion girl off the street and hugs her just for completeness*
Is that the “argument” I used to see a lot between 2000 and 2004 when some people claimed “it must get worse before it can get better, we need to hit rock bottom before people will Wake Up™”? I never bought that, because it can get a lot worse – there may actually be a bottom, but I can’t see it from here.
As long as this stays as vague as it is, I agree.
Not the greater good – the lesser evil.
You just can’t get out of the two-party system before next November.
Oh, and, you can’t get rid of the Electoral College that quickly either. Do you live in a swing state? If not, vote for Mickey Mouse, or don’t, it can’t change anything, you effectively don’t have a right to vote for president. *calming down after onset of rage attack* And Mickey Mouse would likely make a better president anyway. Personally, I’d cast a de-facto protest vote for the Greens or something if I could vote in a safe state.
(Bad example. Most of Somalia is the absence of a state.)
You’re right. (Except that, like in Latin, Greek and German, the word for “human” is grammatically masculine. I suppose this goes all the way back to the times when Proto-Indo-European had two genders, animate and inanimate.)
o_O
O_o
…As I just said: there may actually be a bottom, but I can’t see it from here.
That’s awesome!
I’m very interested in this, because I’ve never encountered arguments for a two-party system. But, uh, it’s not urgent. :-S I should be working hard right now.
(This gives me a culture shock every time again. Over here, only Jehovah’s Witlesses knock on strangers’ doors. Oh, wait, these folks do, too (the use of “boys” in the article is a lie).
Huh. I’ll keep that in mind if the recent proposal to introduce constituency votes in Austria ever goes anywhere. (Guess which party the proposal came from!)
Except for Hegel, I don’t disagree, but the latter isn’t evidence of the former! :-)
Wait, wait, wait. Which goals to choose isn’t science, but how to reach them most definitely is. It’s dreadfully empirical; hundreds of millions of people have died in such experiments. Political thought that ignores such empirical results is incredibly stupid and evil.
*blink*
~:-| You’re a dog person? That’s quite a surprise.
Similarly, it’s completely unsurprising that it’s Iceland which has now recognized Palestine. I mean, it’s surprising anyone has done it, but now that someone has done it, it’s not at all surprising that it’s Iceland, a place with so few people they can get away with not having surnames.
You been Officially Groped, too?
:-) :-) :-)
Awesome awesome awesome!!!
Do it.
Come on. You live alone. Except for muttering to yourself and writing poetry, that’s all normal.
Is your beard long enough to actually comb it?
That protest party split off from the Social Democrats who had become too little social for some people’s tastes.
Case in point: there’s a village in Bavaria where one person voted for the Social Democrats and everyone else voted conservative. TV comedians walked around the place trying to find the socialist, asking people questions like “are you a working mass?”. They never found him or her.
X-)
:-D
:-D
No.
X-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Hereby stolen. :-)
We’ve been missing you!!!
What’s that?
Speaking of that, the rebel army of Syria keeps growing, and the protests in Homs keep growing as well. The determination of these people is incredible.
Definitely.
…which just so happens to fit a misogynistic stereotype! Is it paranoid to wonder if the male pirates chose her for this reason?
…which, in German, sounds a lot like “may the Force be with you”.
Consider my flabber gasted.
“In the illness of AIDS, the readiness to submit oneself to the entirety of life, including its dark sides [of the Force], is primary. Usually, the capability to really get in touch with a person or”
BZZZT! Wrong. Verbindlichkeit, in isolation like this, doesn’t mean anything. I can’t translate meaning that isn’t there.
*sigh* OK, I’ll take a guess. “to live ?responsibility? with all their (!) consequences in relationships, are learning tasks which are to be integrated. What is demanded is the integration of the primordial principles Pluto and Neptune.”
Astrological fuckwit who deliberately refuses to try to express herself clearly. Pluto and Neptune are objects, not primordial principles, fuckwit. You can fucking touch them (…if you get there… and can stand the cold, which you can’t).
How about “there is no god” in the original quotemined Classical Arabic?
The Mao/Deng-dynasty emperors are scared shitless, I tell you. Shitless.
*hug* ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
(…”Several hundred million years” is a bit much, though. The oldest ones are 230 million years old.)
I suppose money isn’t Black, it’s green.
Oletne pecunia? Oletne?
Now I feel silly. I had seriously assumed the Latin version was original.
Away with him. Unfit for office.
</wishful thinking>
*clenched-tentacle salute*
:-)
I’ll just leave this here…
Tracks in the Snow
Today’s six cephalopods are done. Yay!
in hindsight my anger may have made me less rational than usual last night. Ultimately a plus as it is a motivation to do more activism and civil involvement.
I used to be a cat person. I’m very much a dog person now. Cos I understand them. They are very transparent :)
Also *hug hug hug*
What a surprise: Thousands abused in Dutch Catholic institutions: commission.
David:
AFAIK, the original (in Greek) comes from Hippocrates.
The full quotation is Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή, ὁ δὲ καιρὸς ὀξύς, ἡ δὲ πεῖρα σφαλερή, ἡ δὲ κρίσις χαλεπή, which was then translated into Latin (in the process flipping the first two phrases) as Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile.
Or, in modern English: Art [i.e. craft, learning] is long, life is short, opportunity is fleeting, experiment is dangerous, judgement is difficult (that’s for the Latin – in the Greek, life is short comes first).
Chaucer used a variant of the opening couplet in Parlement of Foules.
*cough*
Sorry.
*goes to find somewhere else to be a language nerd*
Yay for cephalopod crafts! I just found out my niece is expecting baby #2, so I bought this octopus pattern and will work it up in bright purple yarn for New Baby and bright orange yarn for Existing Greatniece Toddler. (I think those tentacles are destined to be gummed and gnawed on.)
I really covet the same seller’s cuttlefish pattern.
@ David M.
There are registers kept in all municipalities of people “belonging” to that area. Even if you move to a distant city, you may still be registered on the original roll.
This can cause all manner of problems (usually for migrant workers) as the non-hukou people are in a permanent state of being outsiders. This affects their right to permanent settlement in a place of their choosing (even after decades of work there), but also receiving medical services and education etc on par with the hukou residents of that city. The more progressive cities have made more equitous changes to the system, yet it is still far easier for a person with a university education to obtain these rights. In Shenzhen, the non-hukou outnumber the hukou by a factor of about four to one.
There are some (small) advantages to hukou in your original village or town, in that you have an entitlement to land.
Which brings me back to …
@ pelamun
It is not that the iniquitous land grabs I have described are completely universal, they are not. It is very widespread though.
I have only encountered it once, but have heard of it often. I had supper with a developer once and was surprised when we where introduced to all manner of police officers. A huge group had been invited out for supper too. I discovered later that they where guests of the developer. They had helped to clear a site that was going to be developed. Thankfully we did not get that job. It appears that many of the “police” are not real officers, but more a type of deputy. These are often local toughs without work, who want to sell their brawn or are pushed into service by their parents (their parents may give bribes to get them the jobs). They are not as restrained as the regular officers.
I do not understand how any of this can be legal. It appears more to be a grey and immoral area where authorities turn a blind eye and where the locals, lacking any proper form of representation get strong armed into selling their land and leaving for a pittance. There certainly is a lot of incentive for the authorities to let it slide. “Development” is the catchphrase, the new “pig iron”. Urbanisation is promoted on the highest levels and some will be carried into that bright new future bodily. (I am reminded of robber barons and their “knights”. They are essentially stealing the peoples’ land for a token recompense.)
I do get to see quite a few “nails” in my job. These are people who flat out refuse to sell (sometimes it is not even about holding out for more money). Like many, I just design around them and hope for some settlement in the future. Here the balance of power is quite the opposite. Obviously this occurs more in the big cities and towns than in the rural areas I described above.
What usually happens is that the client is responsible for compensating the people in the area to be developed by providing brand new housing, schools, parks and often further compensation (such as a small shop in the complex). This is quite a significant part of any design and a huge cost for the developer. This is the right way to do it though and the responsibility that those crooks are trying to avoid (on top of swiping the land).
What’s silly about that? He looks like an oppressed mass to me. Get him out of here at once!
Kristinc:
Aaaw, for cute! Tomorrow, I’ll see about sculpting a few cuttlefish, a la Corvus tristis.
@ pelamun
Here is an example of a nail house in Chongqing. Link.
(Don’t get me started on Chongqing, the corruption in that city was (is!) so incredibly rife that it boggles the mind.)
Don’t worry, none of my nails look anything like this. More like clusters of farmers’ houses on land marked “future green”. As negotiations can take years, the development can proceed without it going crazy as in this example. In a way, nails are healthy in that they generally indicate that rights are being respected. (I say generally, because I have heard of a developer going behind everyone’s back, trying to pressure a nail with a gang of thugs. The nail won that round.)
@ starstuff (& language boffins)
Does anyone know a variation of this that goes something like: “seize the day, for tomorrow we shall be dead.” What would that be in Latin?
As far as I understand the hukou system, it’s a perfect illustration of the horrific human cost of migration restrictions. As I understand it, during the Maoist era of famine and collective farms, having a rural hukou often meant starving to death. I’m aware that today it isn’t enforced anything like as rigidly, and obviously economic conditions have changed enormously, but – correct me if I’m wrong – I gather that it’s produced a large population of, in effect, undocumented migrant workers who have moved from the countryside to cities, and who are exploited and marginalized in much the same way as undocumented immigrants in the West? (I could be misunderstanding, since I don’t speak Chinese and am not an expert on China, although I studied this topic briefly during my last master’s degree.)
I don’t think the West can exactly take a moral high ground on this, given that our governments do exactly the same thing – discriminating according to one’s place of birth, and imposing arbitrary and discriminatory restrictions on economic migration – when it comes to transnational migration. And in the West as much as in China, migration restrictions primarily hurt the poor and marginalized.
There is only one just and humane solution: open borders everywhere. And when one looks at it on a global scale, it would also be far more economically-efficient, and far more empowering of the individual, for people to be free to migrate where there is a demand for their labour. Economic migration happens anyway, because the economic incentives for migration for people living in extreme poverty are so strong; migration restrictions simply ensure that more migrants are trapped in situations of poverty and exploitation, and are deprived of economic autonomy. (This is true not just for undocumented migrants, but also for legal guest-workers, like H-1 visa holders in the US, who are tied to working for a particular employer and don’t have free access to the labour market.)
Kristinc, that octopus is brilliant. So much so I had to get one for myself.
theophontes, from Ecclesiastes.
Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die
(Sorry for ranting. I’ve just spent a great deal of time over the last semester studying immigration laws and their effects, and am more and more committed to the view that they should be abolished.)
===
Btw, Sally: I’m sorry I couldn’t do anything to help re the dental treatment situation. :-(
If I could knit, I’d knit a Cute Cephalopod of Swift Post-Root-Canal Recovery (a friend, of course, of the Pig of Happiness*) for you.
(*To reassure everyone, I just checked: “Edward Monkton” is a pseudonym, and the author is no relation to the third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley. The former has certainly made a much greater contribution to society than the latter.)
SallyStrange: check out the cuttlefish! I’m going to have to fiddle with the octopus project to seal up the bottom so there won’t be any loose stuffing for baby to choke on, but the cuttlefish is even baby-safe. So maybe I should have made that instead but I’m pretty sure my niece and her husband would have no idea what a cuttlefish is so I went for the recognizable cephalopod. :/
Ooh, she has patterns for corals too. Awesome.
Oh Walton. Always apologizing.
I have a great many favors to pay forward. So do you, I’m sure.
I think, if it were possible, I would go across broken glass, on my knees, to be in the studio for a taping of QI.
Random complaint about the FTB site: the header is always the crocoduck. I like the crocoduck header, but miss the random selection that science blogs had. Any chance of getting them back?
chigau, I tried watching an episode of QI — twice.
(I’m sure you can guess my opinion of it, from that)
Political crisis in PNG
Right now they have two prime ministers, two cabinets, two governors-general, and two police commissioners.
It seems we have another governor-general related constitutional crisis on our hands here. But my question to Walton: how can the parliament replace the governor-general without involving Buckingham Palace? Some headlines say “Queen may be forced to intervene”. But how can a governor-general be disposed without first getting royal assent/consent/whatever?
http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2011/12/political-crisis-papua-new-guinea
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/governor-general-michael-ogio-suspended-for-backing-michael-somare/story-e6frg6so-1226222379427
Britain’s moral collapse
Conservatives like to spew this kind of crap, it seems. When Helmut Kohl became chancellor in 1982, he was talking about effecting a “spriritual-moral turnover” (geistig-moralische Wende) in West Germany. He then showed by his involvement in this scandal what kind of morals he was apparently referring to.
antidisestablishmentarianism
often considered the longest “mainstream” English word. (In certain technical areas, especially chemistry, there are very long words, though some regard them as verbal formulae instead of words, so it’s always hard to properly define what falls under the rubric of “longest word in the English language”. But presumably, antidisestablishmentarianism would be a word used in the mass media, not specifically coined for the entry in the “longest word competition”)
I find it fascinating how it turned into three genders, and then got reduced again in the various modern languages, along different lines, like back to common-neuter in the Scandinavian languages (except for Norwegian), and masculine-femine in the Romance languages.
One thing I find puzzling however is the fact that wife/wijf/viv/Weib is neuter in Germanic (and used to be in Old English). It’s a root exclusive to Germanic, so it’s not from PIE, but under the old animate-inanimate system, one wouldn’t expect this to be neuter?
Probably the SPÖ or ÖVP?
Well, some German state constitutions have compensatory seats (Ausgleichmandate) for the over-hang seats (Überhangmandate). Then, the system becomes acceptable again. I think a pure party list system can often be alienating the parties from their voters, especially in larger countries, so I think the basic idea behind the German election law is a good one. I don’t know, does Austria do elections by Land? The Austrian Länder might be small enough that pure state-level party lists wouldn’t be that problematic.
More accurately, it was started by disgruntled trade unionists. The relationship between the SPD and the trade unions had been rocky for some time then already. The WASG, and later the merged party, also combined some other elements not previously associated with the SPD, for instance the West German Communists.
So hard to say if it’s a pure split-off. You could also say that the Greens were a split-off in some ways, since the SPD in the 80s had ignored the peace and ecology movements, but the Green party wasn’t just started by disgruntled ex-Social Democrats either.
Well, single villages are never a good sample, I think. Bavaria shows the typical urban-rural contrast, with the SPD and Greens stronger there. But the Bavarian Green Party also had a very charismatic farmer leading them at some time (he unfortunately died of cancer in 2010 and had resigned from politics in 2008), he was the first green mayor in Bavaria, of Traunstein, a medium-sized town in the countryside
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sepp_Daxenberger). Also don’t forget that next door, the Green Party was able to upset the “natural order of things” and actually have the first Green party state governor in the history of Germany (or maybe anywhere in the world? Usually Green parties never get that many votes that they get to lead a government, do they?)
hukou system
Like the Japanese honseki system, a family registry system. In China this is used to restrict domestic movement though. Migrant workers rarely get official work permits for the province they work in, thus weakening their legal position in case of conflicts. Also their children may not go to school where they live, prompting migrant to open private semi-legal migrant schools, and they are not entitled to the free healthcare where they live, only back home, but in poor provinces the free healthcare is worth shit. So this system is breeding a lot of resentment. But as I said, we’ve seen legal strikes increasing, the authorities seem to recognise that the position of workers needs to be improved, so hopefully they will reform the system. (Middle-class people btw do not have any problem at all to get their work permits adequately changed)
How to crochet corals.
PDF
These would make good tree ornaments.
Theophontes,
glad you didn’t get that job! In Indonesia, I was once having dinner with some businesspeople, and they were discussing the protests against mining projects that were occurring in many places across the country. The attitude displayed by these people appalled me…
And let’s face it, in modern China, Chongqing is synonymous with corruption now, isn’t it!! They executed various top officials for corruption there http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10535226
(note: Chongqing, originally part of Sichuan province, has been designated a direct-controlled municipality, not belonging to any province. It thus doesn’t have a provincial level with which to share the corruption)
John Morales
re: QI
oh my :(
As I said the signs have been positive recently. It’s also because low-level work is being outsourced to Vietnam and other SE Asian countries right now, so China is now depending on qualified workers with experience. Sometimes workers have better chances at employment than university graduates. This scarcity has given them a better negotiation position, independent of their legal status.
Tethys: those are hyperbolic corals; the patterns are for branching and blooming forms. (The hyperbolic coral technique also makes a good ruffled-type anemone, like Metridium.)
Also theophontes, thank you for the info re “釘子戶” (ding1zi hu4) nail house), this is a cool neologism. And cool pic too.
Apparently in Hong Long they have the “nail king” (釘王). This can also refer to speculators buying buildings in the expectation that at some later date they will be able to sell those at profit to developers.
Re: discussion up-thread about LDS and Jehovah’s Witnesses:
I’m not very tech-savvy on blogs and wonder if someone can help me out:
A few weeks ago I read “somewhere” on FTB– don’t know if it was Phyaryngula or not– a commenter’s story about dealing with a JW (I think). It was a great write about feigning interest in their doctrines, having them come back a week later. He then gave them a “bible study” and with lots of biblical proof, walked them right into admitting that God’s biblical guidance for dealing with his recalcitrant teenager was to kill him. He was “grateful” for their guidance and they left choking on their own tongues.
It was HILARIOUS! Perfect cross-examination. Does anyone know of a way to search and find the anecdote? I want to bookmark it.
Caine, I like the kinda lavendar-colored jellyfish best. :)
In further potential light-up jellyfish news: LED tea lights with switches. I had no idea there was such a thing!
–
But…but…does this mean you don’t like us any more???
*wide, stricken eyes*
–
I’m objective. You’re biased.
A Time Machine Is My New Girlfriend-Van Hunt
Mistraldesprair-Kate Bush
And that is 2:25 from the over thirteen minute song, Misty.
Romance-Wild Flag
@ John M. 115
I have perhaps conflated this (in itself a conflation) with starstuff’s version. Though I could swear I read it in Latin. (And now I have an earwig in my brain about this.)
@ pelamun
I pressume you mean “Hong Kong”? I actually live in such a building. Hong Kong landlords are completely au fait with their positions with regard to being nails.
I am not complaining about our landlord, but there are other building owners who leave their buildings empty. As a former “kraker” (squatter) I am very much against allowing situations like this. Especially as Hong Kong has some of the worst housing conditions on the planet. (And certainly the very worst value for money.) Only the iniquities in Hong Kong could lead to ideas like “cage dwellings” and “cubicle dwellings”. This is the city that now parades as the most “business friendly” on the planet.
…………….
As critical as I may have been in the last few comments with regard to certain aspects of China, I would however like to add that there is a lot of good going on here. I certainly have more faith in the direction China is taking wrt its people. There is a genuine concern here from many in government to improve the lot of fellow citizens. It is quite the opposite to America (at least from what I see, read and hear), where at every turn the less well off are attacked and hounded by their own government (mis)representatives.
Who The Fuck?-PJ Harvey
Cat On The Wall-PJ Harvey
Meet Ze Monsta=PJ Harvey
Black Snake Moan-PJ Harvey
Cage Dwelling: Linky.
theophontes,
yes, I’ve decided only to correct major typos/errors. I thought given the fact that the L key is next to the K key, it was clear “Hong Long” was a typo for “Hong Kong”…
I agree that despite all criticism, the record of the CPCh in recent years (emphasis on RECENT) is admirable wrt economic progress which has slowly reached all sectors of society. (even though economic disparities are widening).
However, there are two things I see very critically:
1. the undemocratic system. At this point, despite all complaints about abuses and corruption, I think that the CPCh would actually be able to win democratic elections, because many Chinese people rightly credit them with developing the country to the point where it is today. This clinging to old repressive strategies will prove detrimental in the long run.
2. nationalism replacing communism as state-sponsored ideology. I’ve met many Chinese academics over the years (online and offline), and it has always struck me how nationalistic they have become. This has created a situation in which the Chinese govt can no longer afford to make concessions on any number of foreign policy issues without risking widespread domestic anger, and makes me worry about the regional security in East Asia.
and it pains me that a German elder statesman I admire greatly (though not as much as his predecessor who simply was the greatest politician the FRG has ever had), can appear on a prime time TV show and say things, without a word of protest from the audience or the moderator, like “we shouldn’t force our ideas about human rights and democracy on China”…. gah… but Helmut Schmidt has been a panda-hugger for years now….
Oh, right, Walton re PNG
Listening to Radio Australia, it appears that Peter O’Neill, the younger of the two competing prime ministers, only “suspended” Michael Otagio, the governor-general, arguing that this stemmed from some executive powers vested in the cabinet or somesuch. Whether this was a legal move or whether this was in contempt of the Supreme Court decision to reinstate Michael Somare as PNG’s Eternal Prime Minister will probably be up to the PNG internal political process. It was said that the GG could only be deposed by consulting with Buckingham Palace..
http://genealogyreligion.net/altruism-in-religionless-rats
Dedicated to Caine and all the other rat aficionados out there. We knew it all along, but it’s nice to see some hard science to point to.
I seem caught in some time trap. McGill and Matty Hayden yesterday, and now Warney is about to come out to bowl at the MCG with his barbecued hand.
Whenever I listen to 大海 (The Sea) (English translation of lyrics) by Chang Yu-sheng, I get sad that he died in a car crash in 1997…
@ TLC (& Caine)
Huh? Caine is a goddess – so her rats must be religious. (godbots may think she is The Devil, but this still proves my point.)
@ pelamun
I have only lived here for six years (given that, my Mandarin is quite shocking) so cannot say I’ve noticed any changes. Yes, nationalism is quite strong. But so is a very strong interest in and respect for the outside world. The most noticeable issue in the general regard to nationalism is that China is one big family. The friendliness and general lack of violence here is actually very heartening. What is your relationship to China? I gather it is more than linguistic.
@ rorschach
Sounds nasty.
I went camping with my brother and a friend. What with the beers and chatting we forgot the grill on the fire for a little long. Our friend tried to pick it up and branded a big handle shape on his hand. As loudly as he shouted in pain, my brother laughed out loud at him … only to do exactly the same thing a minute later.
Round-up of language-related links
The politics of (linguistic) prescriptivism
OED picks (anglophone) Word of the Year 2011, “squeezed middle”, sparks argument on Language Log whether the Word of the Year should actually be a word or not (PRO and CONTRA)
Interesting case of grammar being used to make an ideological point: because Farsi does not distinguish gender in its pronouns, Persian culture must be misogynistic
A self-helf group for an affliction that often befalls linguists: Conlangers Anonymous
when removing the grill from the fire, always use a stick.
With woodsy wisdom like this, I should have my own survival show.
@ TLC
That would be like “rocket science” for those two. ;)
Theophontes,
one day we will have a beer somewhere between 香港 and 深圳, I hope…
Let me just say that my mother is from East Asia (though not from a Chinese-speaking country) and my father from Central Europe. I took Chinese studies as a minor in college and spent a year in Taiwan a long time ago… I’ve been to China twice, but every time to Beijing and only for a week. But I’m constantly in contact with Chinese and Taiwanese people online and offline…
In a broader historical context, Chinese nationalist issues like the Nanjing massacre begin to play a role only from the time of the normalisation of Sino-Japanese relations in 1972. With the implementation of market economy reforms starting with Deng’s southern tour in 1992, the communist ideology fades into the background, the void being replaced by a nationalist one (if it’s really an agenda, I wouldn’t be able to say, but it has filled the gap perfectly).
For instance, this book should discuss some of the issues related to that, we discussed that book in the seminar I once took on the Nanjing massacre.
The Nanjing massacre in history and historiography. 2000. Joshua Fogel (ed). UCP
The following is based on my personal observations:
– China has long had a supremacist world view, it’s already in the name 中國, “Middle Kingdom” – the barbarians outside/beneath, and the gods above (other synonyms for China, 天下 “everything under the heavens”, 神州 “land of the gods”, this is the name the Chinese space rockets bear, Shenzhou). The experience of “semi-colonialisation” (半殖民地化) starting 150 years ago with the Opium Wars has had a profound impact on the nationalist agenda that is now prevalent in China. When I was a T.A. in a GSL centre, we once had an essay topic “my country 100 years ago”. All essays by Chinese students were about this semi-colonialisation issue!!
– The memory of this is embodied in the slogan 不忘國恥 “we do not forget the national disgrace”. In a sense, Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan were the three remaining reminders of this national disgrace. By 1999, two of the three had been returned and now only Taiwan remains. (I always say, why should 23 million Taiwanese be sacrificed for the collective psychotherapy of 1.3 billion Chinese). It’s been the dream of every Chinese leader since Jiang Zemin to be the one who makes the nation whole again.
– in light of this, the Tibet and Xinjiang issues are not seen as issues of ethnic minority rights, but as renewed attempts of the West to weaken and humiliate China again by splitting it up (and Taiwan, although not under direct Chinese control, is crucial not just because of its role as the “last missing bit”, but also because recognising its de facto independence might trigger a domino effect). Until now I’ve only met one Chinese person who claimed not to care about the TTT issues (the third T being “Chinese Turkestan”), though I try to avoid discussions about the TTT at all costs with Chinese people. But often Chinese people will bring up the topics of their own account. For instance, one time, an online friend started a conversation “today, I really hate the French!”. Where do people ever start conversations like that!! (The context were some Italian made rabbit head sculptures stolen from the Summer Palace during the Boxer Revolt, materialising among the assets of late YSL. Legend has it that Cixi herself found the head too ugly for her taste).
– the idea of nation and national sovereignty is also an important concept here. A stereotypical conversation between Germans and Chinese about the TTT:
C: so what would you do if Bavaria suddenly declared its independence from Germany?
G: we would say “Good riddance, maybe the Austrians will take you”.
if the Chinese person in context has lived in Europe for some time, they might then add:
C: well this is such typical European/Western thinking. In China, we have a different idea of national unity. You can’t just leave and split up the country.
(This is also why I think that Walton’s ideas about a world without borders will remain a pipe dream. The role of China in the world will increase rather than decrease, and a global system dominated by China will strengthen national sovereignty rather than weaken it.)
One time, a Chinese friend told me that Tibetans are so different from Chinese that she wouldn’t regard them as Chinese people, and from a cultural p.o.v. they might as well become independent. But from the standpoint of national unity, this just couldn’t happen.
But some other people get really really emotional about the issue. At the seminar about the Nanjing massacre, we had a Chinese engineering student as participant, who got really angry at any viewpoint divergent from what he learnt in school. I asked him what he thought on the Taiwan issue, and he said “they should acquiesce to unification already”. Until then, I had made the experience that people were the less nationalist the more educated they were, and this experience with this guy (and later with others) really frightened me.
– On a side note, I’m amazed that you’ve never had any unpleasant experiences with Chinese people. When we were in Beijing in 1997, our group was yelled at for being foreign. Of course you find racism anywhere, but I’ve heard Chinese people make pretty racist remarks about Uighurs (Chinese people who were from Xinjiang), or black people.
– Now after I’ve written so many negative things: there are of course many things I love about China, its culture and its people, I’ve spent many years studying the languages, and the cultures etc. But the nationalism issue is one that I regard with concern.
@ pelamun
[quote]somewhere between 香港 and 深圳[/quote]
That would be in the middle of 米埔濕地 ! (Mai Po marshes)
Thank you for the above, I am always interested in others take on China.
wrt Chinese democracy, I think that cities might take the lead. Not just the obvious ones like Hong Kong and Macao, but also Shanghai or Shenzhen. (I have a lot to say about Hong Kong, but we can raise that over a beer.) This may sound very selfish of me, but I think a “democracy” like the US, or a populist variant could be an unmitigated disaster for the planet. It certainly won’t be an instant cure. As China lives up to its name “Peoples’ Republic”, this might anyhow become less of an issue.
PS: Music videos, facebook, etc etc … forget it. There is still a lot of catching up to do wrt teh interwebz.
pelamun, ‘antidisestablishmentarianism’ is not the longest word, Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is. Don’t make me link to it.
I saw a mini-van today with faux antlers attached to the side windows and a fluffy red ball on the grill.
The Sailor: We have one of those parked down the road.
There’s one house a ways down, seems to be some kind of group home for mentally disabled adults, and I think that’s the house the reindeer minivan belongs to. But I’m not sure.
On a side note, it’s either that house or their neighbors, but every time I walk past I get a noseful of some really excellent smelling pot. Makes me fuckin drool every time.
Caine, how are the skitterbiscuits doing?
Are they still flibbertigibbets?
depends on your definition of “word”. Many lexicographers exclude words like “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious”. There’s an entire Wiki article on it (though it doesn’t really use consistent criteria, or define them properly).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_word_in_English
It says the longest word to ever appear in a major dictionary was Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, but the problem with that word is that it apparently was coined on purpose to be the longest word.
Antidisestablishmentarianism seems to be the longest “uncontroversial” English word.
England! There’s a reason God put 26 miles of water between them and us. ;)
I like that word, flibbertigibbet. I hereby resolve to use that word in real life at least once tomorrow.
or later today, as it were.
5 am, beginning to see spots, but I have no particular urge to go to bed, despite being tired.
TLC, smelling OPP (Other People’s Pot) never makes me drool. But I do lick my chops occasionally.
The Sailor: Usually, smelling other people’s weed doesn’t make me drool either, but this smells like some high-grade stuff. Seriously.
But I’m a serious weed-hound. If pot was as harmful as alcohol, I’d actually have a pretty heavy monkey on my back. But it’s not, so lucky me.
TLC, I get it, you have chronic condition. … … ;-)
haha, I like that. Chronic Condition.
One of the most interesting scientific facts I’ve learned recently: THC is actually a natural insect repellent?
So every time I burn down a joint, I’m getting blasted on nature’s DEET, apparently.
So it repels insects, but why would something meant to keep bugs away produce such wonderful effects when ingested by certain primates?
Speaking of which, everyone knows you can teach a chimpanzee to smoke- but can you teach one to puff-puff-pass? That’s what I’ve always wondered.
I heard a great mnemonic about memorising the eight imperialist nations involved in suppressing the Boxer Revolt:
“if you’re hungry, stew an eagle every day”
餓的話每日熬一鷹
e4 de hua4 mei2 ri4 ao4 yi4 ying1
俄德法美日奧義英
e2 de2 fa3 mei3 ri4 ao4 yi4 ying1
Russia Germany France USA Japan Austria Italy Britain
good question
a. it’s not the type of ‘repellent’ that is designed to ‘keep bugs away’ like DEET. It’s more likely to be a deterrent to insects that try to eat the leaves of the plant.
b. so the logical hypothesis is that THC evolved in the plant to bind to the endocannabanoid receptors of herbivorous insects and mess with them unpleasantly or even fatally. The fact that we primates also have cannabanoid receptors (inherited from the endocannabanoid receptors of ancestors, including the common ancestor of us and insects, but evolutionarily shifted perhaps in specific function) and that stimulating them moderately is highly pleasant would be a happy accident, but at least the mechanism of fucks-w/-insects but gets-people-high would be strightforward.
c. except that no cannabanoid receptors have been found in insects (even though there is evidence for functional endocannabanoid systems in many other types of invertebrates (ref).
So it’s entirely unclear at the moment what the mechanism of insect deterrence is, and your question can’t be answered. yet.
What a floccinaucinihilipilificatory argument.
Depends on the national constitution. I just had a look at the constitution of Papua New Guinea. The Governor-General there, unlike in other Commonwealth realms, is nominated by the PNG Parliament; the Queen is constitutionally obliged to appoint whomever the Parliament nominates. (This is constitutionally binding “advice”, just as she is constitutionally bound to act in accordance with the “advice” of the PM in respect of British executive decisions.)
What the PNG constitution says about dismissal and suspension of the Governor-General is as follows:
The “National Executive Council” in this context is, effectively, the Prime Minister and Cabinet. So they do have authority to suspend or to remove the Governor-General, in principle.
However, I gather it’s more complicated than that:
What a mess. (It couldn’t have happened in most other Commonwealth realms, since most have no such mechanism for removing the Governor-General.)
As a child, I always believed that the longest word in English was pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, a type of lung disease often suffered by miners. Source: this book.
thanks, Walton, for checking the PNG constitution. Interesting mechanism about suspending the GG. So this seems to be unique among the CW nations then..
It’s really unfortunate. Michael Somare has been a man with many contribution to PNG, but his political life now seems to be over. The way this was handled by his rival though has split the country in two, so this is a highly risky situation. Fortunately until now it seems bloodshed has been avoided, let’s hope it will be resolved in a peaceful way…
Did you mean: floccinaucinihilipilification?
But of course THC is not the only plant-evolved insect deterrent. Nicotine, opiates, cocaine, most of the interesting spices, the smell of minty freshness, etc.: all were almost certainly originally functional as herbivore deterrents.
I won’t comment on Somare, but I don’t see why 75 is too old to be Prime Minister, personally.
Indeed, we’ve had an epidemic of ridiculously young and inexperienced PMs lately. Cameron took office at the age of 43, and I suspect his lack of life-experience, and of any real experience anything outside politics (he was at Oxford, worked in PR for a short while and worked as a party advisor, and then became an MP at a very young age), is part of why this government has been such a clusterfuck. Doubly so for Osborne, and much of the rest of the Cabinet.
(But then, I’m more and more cynical about this whole democracy and party politics thingy. I’d rather be ruled by Prince Charles.)
Hi there
Thanks for all the well-wishes
I’m claiming that Hitchens has already worked his first miracle.
I was all cold and shivering last night, then I raised my Scotch to him and suddenly I became all hot and sweaty, went to bed with a good fever and am feeling much better this morning.
I also don’t find “rest in peace” objectionable. I always thought about it in terms of no more suffering. Let’s face it, most people die after quite some suffering and that’s over then. A long, dreamless sleep with no morning.
I’ve heard my gran express such sentiments lately. She wants peace, no more worries, cares or demands.
well he’s had some health issues, and I do think the job of PM is so stressful that 75 appears like a good time to become an elder statesman. It’s never good for political stability if your PM dies in office. Just remember the farce that happened when the Japanese PM Obuchi died. The party brokers sought to keep the death of the highest political office from the public because his sudden death had them scrambling to figure out who was going to become the next PM…
That sounds like a great scam. “Give us all your money and then we’ll decide whether we’ll let you join.”
I swear, my conscience is the only thing standing between me and billionaire status.
I just had an “I’m going to kill my boss” moment.
We have a volunteer group in with some Lionel trains and they are bringing in a Santa for the kids to get photos (it is covered in the special use permit). And my boss comes out of his office, looks at me, and says, “The volunteer Santa is sick. So is the backup.”
At which point I lifted my left arm and pointed at him (whole hand point, as I have been trained). He continued, “And the voluteer who was supposed to show up for the gallery won’t be in. So we don’t know if there’ll be a Santa or not. They’re trying to get one. Why are do you look angry?”
“Because I thought you were about to ask me to do it.”
“Oh, no. But you and me are the right shape.”
“Yeah,” I answered, “But I don’t do jolly. My humour is either bad puns or sarcasm.”
“Not to worry. I wasn’t gonna ask you.”
“Good. Because then I would have had to kill you.”
Luckily, I didn’t have to find out if killing my boss was literal or metaphorical.
but more importantly, Peter O’Neill had the majority (I don’t know if the claims that Somare had lost public support were just propaganda from the O’Neill side or were true, Somare has been the PNG PM from 1975-1980, 1982-1985, and then from 2002. In a democracy, this usually creates fatigue effects (just ask Germans who lived under Kohl’s chancellorship from 1982-1998). I just don’t get why O’Neill had to use such dubious, heavy-handed moves if he had the majority in parliament behind him…
This is something for the John Birch Society to get paranoid about…
“Pope Benedict Peace Message Calls For Wealth Redistribution” http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/16/pope-benedict-wealth-distribution_n_1154798.html
“IIIIH!!!THE COMMIES HAVE TAKEN OVER THE VATICAN!!!!!!”
Interesting…the Vatican is an extremely hierarchic and intolerant organisation, while still hanging on (theorethically) to the ideal that material wealth is not the road to happiness. Yet, lots of greedy catholic millionaries (think Joe Kennedy) will not for a minute reconsider their activities, whether it is union-busting, tax fraud or straightforward theft.
— — — —- — — — — — — — — — — —
Pelamun: -maybe “honour to his/her memory”?
.
Reminds me of the Norse verses in Havamal:
“Fä dör
fränder dör
själv dör du likaledes
– Ett vet jag som aldrig dör
dom över död man”
I leave it to others with a better language sense to translate it to ´merican :-)
(good translations are as hard as good comedy)
— — — —
The Swedish government has decided to extend the powers of warrantless wiretapping on digital transmissions.
HULK ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kitten spent the entire night stuck in a closet. Didn’t meow to let us find her until 7am. This one’s going to be a handful. Thought about getting a bell collar for her to find her more easily, but I think the constant noise would give her a nervous breakdown.
Still haven’t named her; we made a list and everyone checked their favorites, and it appears Grace (as a pun on her color gray) is the only one the entire family likes.
She’s finally moving around the house a little bit, but still very skittish. Why did I get a new kitten again? *satisfied yet slightly exasperated sigh*
Well, if you cite the Havamal, why don’t use the original Old Norse ;)
Wiki has a good translation
Deyr fé,
deyja frændr,
deyr sjálfr et sama;
ek veit einn,
at aldri deyr:
dómr um dauðan hvern.
Cattle die,
kinsmen die
you yourself die;
I know one thing
which never dies:
the fate of the honored dead.
(though I don’t know how they get “honored dead” out of “dauðan hvern”, I thought “hvern” just meant “man”, like in the English “were-(wolf)”)
(checking Old Norse dictionaries, it’s probably not “were”, but it might be some kind of distributive, like “anyone who dies”, but my knowledge of Old Norse grammar is sorely lacking)
“Sorry, Mr. Hitchens…”
pelamun: You speak Old Norse too? Dammit, are there any languages you don’t speak? Manx, perhaps? Or Norn?
You’re also reminding me of Tolkien. (Who, of course, was, in his day job, one of the world’s foremost experts on Anglo-Saxon, Norse and other early Germanic languages. Writing novels was originally just a hobby.)
walton,
nah, I’m cheating, using Icelandic as a stand-in for Old Norse, as it is the North Germanic language that has remained the closest to Old Norse. I’ve always had a special place in my heart for Icelandic, and unlike Old Norse, there is actually a possibility of actually using it with living people!
Also, compare the Old Norse with the translation into Swedish
“Fä dör
fränder dör
själv dör du likaledes
– Ett vet jag som aldrig dör
dom över död man”
Damn pressed a button too quickly.
Deyr fé,
deyja frændr,
deyr sjálfr et sama;
ek veit einn,
at aldri deyr:
dómr um dauðan hvern.
Except for the last sentence, it’s pretty obvious, don’t you think. Swedish just has lost a lot of morphological complexity, and if you know some sound change rules like the vowel breaking and monophthongisation of diphthongs in Eastern Scandinavian, i.e. jag vs. eg/ek, or vet v. veit, then it should be quite clear…
Regarding Celtic languages, I only know the absolute minimum any typological linguist has to know about them (so mainly grammatical characteristics)
Norn is the obscure extinct Norse dialect once spoken in the Shetland and Orkney Islands – islands which were originally Norwegian, albeit effectively independent and ruled by a hereditary jarl, but passed to the crown of Scotland in the Middle Ages. I’ve always wanted to go there (despite my generally bad experiences of Scotland in the past*).
(*When I was in the OTC, I spent a week getting cold, miserable and bitten by mosquitoes at Garelochhead training area. It’s not a part of the world I would recommend to tourists. The Highlands, on the other hand, are a little more pleasant.)
Aww… I wish I could speak Welsh. Much of my family heritage is Welsh (albeit from South Wales, where English is more widely-spoken than Welsh), but I’ve never lived there and don’t speak the language at all. (Though I can sing Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau with the correct pronounciation. Unlike John Redwood.)
Oh yes, I knew that about Norn, but mainly wanted to talk about Celtic, because they are fascinating languages…
Oh sorry, I meant to say in my previous post that the etyma are pretty obvious if you have studied a modern Scandinavian language such as Swedish.
Celtic is the standard answer for examples for VSO word order.
I really feel a bit of sadness about Celtic, as it has become completely extinct on the continent, mainly due to the Roman conquests. The Celtic language spoken in the Bretagne is actually orignally from Britain, i.e. classified as insular Celtic.
Dia duit
Giliell is anum dom.
That’s more or less all that is left of 2 semesters of Gaelge
Funny enough, I remember more grammatical rules and pecularities than I remember actual words
And here’s some scottish Gaelic Runrig: Pog aon oidhche earraich
Talking about languages, I just wrote a mail in French. I hope they can decipher what I want.
Trying to write a letter to my cousin in Swedish… Reading is much easier than writing (duh!)… Problem is that Scandinavians speak English too well, and the Language Exchange Law (TM) predicts that you will subconsciously gravitate towards using the language both sides speak best… (so in a sense it’s good that French people don’t like to speak English)*) But now that my cousin has kids, this gives me motivation to improve my active command of the language….
*) American friends of mine keep complaining about Germans refusing to speak German with them unless their command of German is near perfect.. instead the Germans foist their often less-than-perfect English on them /subjective
It is sad. It’s sad that so many languages and cultures have disappeared, in truth; in the British isles, Manx and Norn are dead, and the Jerriais language (a Norman French dialect spoken in the Channel Islands*) is in the process of dying.
(*The only other relic of medieval Norman French is in English legal terminology. It’s the reason why many English legal terms are either of direct French origin – tort, mortgage, the now-rarely-used archaic term “cestui que trust” for the beneficiary of a trust, a “profit a prendre” which is a proprietary right to take natural resources from land, and so on – or have a French-like noun-adjective order, like attorney general, court martial, fee simple, and so on.)
(Again you’re reminding me of Tolkien. :-p He was upset about a great many long-ago historical events, not least the Norman Conquest, which he saw as very bad for England. Me, I’m a little more modern: I get sad about the twentieth-century demise of so many once-beautiful European monarchies. Oh well.)
Sailor, TLC: re: THC: OPP neither makes me drool nor lick my chops. I just breathe in a few nosefuls, close my eyes, lean my head back, and say “mmmmmm”. I then hope for a spontaneous offer, which, even if not forthcoming, I follow with saying “nice”.
Somebody please tell me, how to you say “kiss my ass” in Irish? I thought I knew, but I tried it on an Irish friend and they were not in accord with my presumed knowledge.
Do you know what? At the moment I don’t really feel like debating the pros and cons of Christopher Hitchens’ views on various issues… I feel like watching some of these “hitchslaps” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w
As a linguist, it’s not surprising that I’m sad about the loss of linguistic diversity.
I can be upset about more modern events too. Especially I’m still upset about the Greater Hamburg Law of 1937. Two Prussian provinces had to give up valuable cities to Hamburg (Hanover had to give up Harburg, and Schleswig-Holstein had to give up two, Altona, and Wandsbek, and they only got “rubbish” in return, Cuxhaven (an exclave possession of Hamburg) for Hanover, and Lübeck (another independent city, which, so the legend goes, had angered Hitler in the 1920s with preventing him from olding a rally there) for Schleswig-Holstein)
Damn Nazis!
(I might be the only person who still cares about this…)
Did I tell you that I once had dinner at a Tolkien-styled cafe in Texas with a professor from England who actually had heard lectures from Tolkien in Oxford?
“kiss my ass”. maybe you said “kiss my donkey”? Googling for “kiss my ass” in different language came up with websites that gave translation to that effect, like “Küssen Sie meinen Esel”, which totally doesn’t make any sense whatsoever in German, unless you own a donkey which you want kissed.
No. That’s awesome! And not surprising: Tolkien taught at Oxford until 1959 and gave undergraduate lectures every year, so anyone who read English and matriculated before Michaelmas of ’58 would probably have been to his lectures. (The author Diana Wynne Jones, for instance, who died earlier this year, graduated in 1956 and attended lectures by both Tolkien and C.S. Lewis.) His lectures on Beowulf (about which he knew more than pretty much anyone alive at the time) were famous. Though some say he was actually a poor lecturer because of his tendency to speak very fast.
I’ve always been slightly obsessed with Tolkien. (triskelethecat very generously gave me Humphrey Carpenter’s biography of Tolkien as a gift earlier this year; I’d read the biography when I was a teenager, but I didn’t own a copy.) The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are two of the earliest novels I remember reading, and he’s definitely shaped my literary tastes and poetic voice in later life. Of course I don’t think he was right about everything – he was a devout Catholic*, for instance, and also had a lifelong irrational dislike of France and the French** – but I’ve always identified with him as a person, a great deal.
(*Largely due to the influence of his mother, who converted to Catholicism when Tolkien was very young.)
(**Which I suspect may have had something to do with the fact that he served on the Western Front during WWI, a shitty experience which I imagine would make anyone reluctant to go back to France.)
Not ad hominem, just a bloody good insult. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0cJBEMiN1c&feature=related
You can buy a violent computer game for your christian friends for Xmas. In this game, players have to try to convert every non-christian, including atheists. If non-believers won’t convert, then players must kill them. Nice, huh?
To be fair, a lot of the christian advertising for the game emphasizes that shooting is a last resort. And they claim that violence is not encouraged.
The game is Left Behind: Eternal Forces. Yep, the inspiration behind this game is Tim LaHaye’s Left Behind book series.
Here’s an excerpt from the review at Wired magazine:
Yeah, I started reading Lord of the Rings when I was 16, and it taught me many archaic words (my method of learning English consisted in working through the grammar of Zandvoort and looking up any word I didn’t know, or suspected to have another secondary meaning). Though I remember that I was disappointed at the time when he didn’t have the Rohirrim use “thou/thee” instead of “you”.
A friend once promised to give me the Simarillion, but I never got it. Probably should read it some day..
Back in the day, I also adapted the Tengwar script to German, including special letters for frequent words.. Even taught it to some friends, and we kept writing letters in Tengwar to each other…
Some people have said that Middle Earth is a reference to Middle England which was under attack by modernity, or something like that, and I think some analyses even imply a racist subtext, what with the Easterlings and Southrons. What’s your take on this?
No. I think I can tell an adjective from an abstract noun.
It’s complicated. Tolkien had a romantic love of the English countryside, and a hatred of industrialization and urbanization. (He grew up, in part, in a hamlet called Sarehole in rural Worcestershire, near Birmingham, and was very upset that it was later swamped by suburban development.) Reflections of this can be seen in his romanticization of rural life in the Shire, and his satire of industrialization in the “Scouring of the Shire” in The Return of the King.
On the other hand, he vehemently denied that any of his works were intended as any sort of political allegory. In the foreword to the 1966 edition, the one we had at home when I was a child, he says:
(Which, I think, is why his novels are so much more interesting than C. S. Lewis’, despite their close friendship and their similar subject-matter.)
When asked about it, he always denied the suggestion that there was any sort of political motivation to his having placed Mordor in the East, or that it was meant to be any sort of reflection of real-world political events. He didn’t take much interest in contemporary politics, rarely even reading newspapers; if one had to describe him politically, he would probably be best characterized as a sort of neo-medieval anarcho-primitivist.
As for the Haradrim, I don’t think there was really any racial subtext there, at least on a conscious level. Indeed, although the Haradrim were allies of Mordor, they’re actually portrayed fairly sympathetically when Frodo and Sam run into them briefly in The Two Towers and see them riding “Oliphaunts”.
(It’s certainly nowhere near as egregious as C.S. Lewis’ portrayal of the Calormenes – a thinly-veiled stereotyped parallel of Arab-Islamic culture, where a false god named “Tash” is worshipped – in the Narnia series. Although I suspect that in Lewis’ case it was motivated by religious bigotry against Islam rather than by racism in the strict sense: Calormenes who “convert”, so to speak, are often portrayed as sympathetic characters, such as Aravis in The Horse and his Boy.)
The closest Tolkien ever came to being really political was in a letter he wrote to his son Christopher during WWII:
Pretty close to my own political views, such as they are.
Oh, I missed a little bit out:
I think he had a point there.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53132983-78/utah-season-billboard-foundation.html.csp
The Freedom From Religion Foundation finally got around to putting up some billboards in Utah.
One of the billboards says: “Reason’s Greetings”
Steve Benson, the ex-mormon, Pulitzer prize winning cartoonist, is mentioned in the article.
President Obama’s advisers. Newt’s fellow goons. Wall Street’s shills.
Hmm, I kinda like that idea of personal names instead of “government” or whatever. Reminds us that those being spoken of are as finite and mortal as the rest of the human race.
Oh dear… lapsed again. Hitch has given me an excuse to go on a bender (it doesn’t take much). Anyway I know this is a safe-ish place to do that, so if you horde don’t mind I’ll keep posting links that amuse
Theophontes:
:blushes: As far as the rats go, I think I’m the Goddess of Tea & Salad.
Back to sculpting.
So they become white and delightful upon conversion?
My friend bought me a christmas tree for a christmas present! I’m pretty excited. I’ve been wanting a tree but I couldn’t afford to buy one. Now it’s all dressed up and I put up some old stockings next to it :D
Not quite. There are two named examples: Aravis in AHAHB and a dude whose name I can’t remember in TLB.
Aravis is introduced when she’s fleeing from an arranged marriage to a (much older) man who is a real douchebucket. She later marries Cor, who is a prince (and later king). Basically, she flees from her Evil Dark Family, meets (by the power of
GodAslan) the White Savior of his people and later grows up to be Queen. What I find irritating is that – if the appalling racism of her backstory could somehow be removed – Aravis is a genuinely positive female character. She’s brave, honest, trustworthy, and cares for her friends. Yes, she’s proud and more than a little prickly, but that mostly just removes her from Sue territory (which is where Lucy lives). In my mind, my irritation at Lewis revolves around the fact that he created this awesome character and slapped her with a racist plot. She must overcome her backstory (her nationality, her religion, her people) to be welcomed into the heart and arms of a blond hero. Blech.The other named character (whose name, of course, I cannot remember) shows up in TLB. He’s thoughtful, kind, and honorable. He doesn’t do anything, just be present as a Good Guy who is accepted despite his origins. IIRC, Lewis was making an explicit Statement™ about how Virtuous Pagans (and yes, this is a technical term) can find salvation. So we’ve got a guy whose plot arc is
1. Be introduced as one of the Bad Guys.
2. Be shown to be thoughtful, intelligent, and nice.
3. Accept Jesus due to LOGIC.
I put my Penicillin microbe plush as the tree topper :D
No. That would be the Mormon approach to Native Americans (which is why some Mormons are really big on adopting Native American children and then ensuring that they never see sunshine).
Ogvorbis,
That’s appalling. I believe that it’s true, and I’m horrified.
I…bleh. I am at a loss for words about how wrong that is on every level.
Esteleth:
Sorry. Didn’t mean to upset you. I think Lynna may have covered this in one of the Mormom Madness comments.
Thanks for the explanation of hukou.
…Whatever you say ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
Seconded and thirded!
Also seconded and thirded.
No, stay here, stay here *tugs on the fringes of Esteleth’s skirt* …Do you think “experience” would be a better translation than “experiment”? And, and, and, Goethe turned ars longa, vita brevis into die Kunst ist lang, und kurz ist das Leben – hey, look, a classical chiasma that isn’t there in the original. :-)
I’ll watch that ASAP :-)
:-o
What the fuck.
Apparently this made him the laughingstock of France, along the lines of: “There he goes, receiving millions and millions in illegal donations – and then he gives all that money to the party! Instead of building a castle for his lover! Those Germanic barbarians will never learn how to live.”
The longest one that isn’t a compound noun. It’s just one noun with lots of affixes.
Isn’t that more like “except for Standard Nynorsk”?
1) Are you sure it’s not from PIE? One of the Tocharian languages had a word kwipe that apparently designated the vulva.
2) I have no idea either… except if “pussy” is the original meaning and happened to be neuter. Hmmm.
3) There’s a possibly vaguely parallel case in that Spanish mujer and Latin mulier are feminine, but look masculine or perhaps neuter.
ÖVP (conservatives), of course.
There is that – but I think members of a country-level body should represent interests, not chunks of land the people on which are somehow assumed to all have the same interests.
Nationwide elections? No.
Oh. The KPD already merged into the WASG? I didn’t know that.
Latvia used to have a Green-led government, but those were rightist greens, not leftist ones, and… and Latvia gets so little attention by the media over here that I don’t know anything more.
That went fast. When did low-level work start being outsourced to China? 10 years ago, when China joined the WTO?
Buildings? Almost the entire city of Ordos (Erduosi) is empty. It was built in the middle of the steppe as part of a real-estate bubble.
Very interesting comments!
The really tragicomical thing about this is that nationalism was invented in Europe in the early 19th century and then exported to the rest of the world.
Why a monkey?
Because of a Czech pun (via German, I bet): opít se “to get drunk”, opice “monkey”, c pronounced [ts], so the only difference is the length of the [i].
Impressive!
Two words. A compound adjective followed by a compound noun.
Yeah, they do that sometimes.
Then the h wouldn’t be there. Or it would be in both languages, and werewolves would be wherewolves. Right? Could it have something to do with “who”? … That would fit with the fact that my dialect of German uses wer “who” instead of jemand “some-/anyone”.
Can you get the nh right? :-)
But if your French pronunciation isn’t near-perfect and fluent enough, they’ll speak English at you anyway. In the French sound system, if you’re out of luck.
…where fee, interestingly, is native, and cognate with the Old Norse fé a few comments higher up.
Full of win.
Argh. Stuff from a comment I posted on another thread several hours ago, and an <a> tag that I tried to close with </i>. Let me try again.
================================
Thanks for the explanation of hukou.
…Whatever you say ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
No, stay here, stay here *tugs on the fringes of Esteleth’s skirt* …Do you think “experience” would be a better translation than “experiment”? And, and, and, Goethe turned ars longa, vita brevis into die Kunst ist lang, und kurz ist das Leben – hey, look, a classical chiasma that isn’t there in the original. :-)
I’ll watch that ASAP :-)
:-o
What the fuck.
Apparently this made him the laughingstock of France, along the lines of: “There he goes, receiving millions and millions in illegal donations – and then he gives all that money to the party! Instead of building a castle for his lover! Those Germanic barbarians will never learn how to live.”
The longest one that isn’t a compound noun. It’s just one noun with lots of affixes.
Isn’t that more like “except for Standard Nynorsk”?
1) Are you sure it’s not from PIE? One of the Tocharian languages had a word kwipe that apparently designated the vulva.
2) I have no idea either… except if “pussy” is the original meaning and happened to be neuter. Hmmm.
3) There’s a possibly vaguely parallel case in that Spanish mujer and Latin mulier are feminine, but look masculine or perhaps neuter.
ÖVP (conservatives), of course.
There is that – but I think members of a country-level body should represent interests, not chunks of land the people on which are somehow assumed to all have the same interests.
Nationwide elections? No.
Oh. The KPD already merged into the WASG? I didn’t know that.
Latvia used to have a Green-led government, but those were rightist greens, not leftist ones, and… and Latvia gets so little attention by the media over here that I don’t know anything more.
That went fast. When did low-level work start being outsourced to China? 10 years ago, when China joined the WTO?
Buildings? Almost the entire city of Ordos (Erduosi) is empty. It was built in the middle of the steppe as part of a real-estate bubble.
Very interesting comments!
The really tragicomical thing about this is that nationalism was invented in Europe in the early 19th century and then exported to the rest of the world.
Why a monkey?
Because of a Czech pun (via German, I bet): opít se “to get drunk”, opice “monkey”, c pronounced [ts], so the only difference is the length of the [i].
Impressive!
Two words. A compound adjective followed by a compound noun.
Yeah, they do that sometimes.
Then the h wouldn’t be there. Or it would be in both languages, and werewolves would be wherewolves. Right? Could it have something to do with “who”? … That would fit with the fact that my dialect of German uses wer “who” instead of jemand “some-/anyone”.
Can you get the nh right? :-)
But if your French pronunciation isn’t near-perfect and fluent enough, they’ll speak English at you anyway. In the French sound system, if you’re out of luck.
…where fee, interestingly, is native, and cognate with the Old Norse fé a few comments higher up.
Full of win.
Am I the only one who feels bad for the Orcs? They’re trying to live in a drought-stricken landscape. I mean, did you see those shots of Mordor? No natural resources. A hunter-gatherer, even one as well armed as the orcs are, would be hard pressed to eke out any kind of living there.
Is it any surprise that such a desperate people would resort to raiding and pillaging? Where the hell else are they gonna get their meat? Each other? Oh wait, they already did that.
And no one ever thinks to reach out to them. Does anyone in middle earth go “Hey, that green dude looks kind of hungry. Maybe I could spare him a bite?” No, they just go “EW UGH ORCS KILL THEM!”
The only people who ever try to offer the Orcs anything at all are Sauron and Saruman, is it any wonder that they ended up pledging their allegiance to them?
Well, at least Tolkien was nice enough not to totally extinct the Orcs after Sauron was destroyed.
13-screen quotebork! It’s a record!! ;-)
*sigh* Obviously, posted before seeing #216. (Hey! 6 cubed!)
Refresh, preview, review, post. I really should know this by now.
*notices that David is in her closet, tugging on skirts*
Uh…
Come out of the closet, David!
Hmm. The Latin experimentum does mean “experiment.” However, the Greek πεῖρα would be better translated as “experience.” So, in answer to your question, maybe. Depends on if you’re using the Greek or the Latin. Probably comes down to nuance, which I’m not great at in either language. The other thing is that the Greek σφαλερή means “fallible,” but the Latin version uses periculosum, which means “dangerous,” a rather different meaning.
I like the Goethe quote. German is not something I know, so I have a question: the Latin ars and the Greek τέχνη do not mean “art” in the sense of fine art (paintings, sculpture, music, etc) but in the sense of “craft” or “study” (this is especially obvious if you can pronounce the Greek – τέχνη is best transliterated as “tekhnê,” which is the root of “technique”).
Does Kunst have this nuance or not?
Ogvorbis:
When it comes to religious people doing stupid and hurtful stuff because God told them too, I’m too jaded to be shocked any more. I’m appalled at myself for not being more upset, but there’s also the part where if I got as upset as it deserves, I’d always be in the corner weeping.
Coyote,
It’s actually even worse than that for the Orcs. Orcs were what resulted when Elves, captured by Morgoth (Sauron’s boss), were tortured, mutilated, and bred until Orcs resulted. This is said at some point during the movies (IIRC, Saruman is bragging about how he’s improved on things by crossing Orcs with humans to make Uruk-Hai), but it barely comes up in the book (all that stuff is found in The Silmarillion). Which simultaneously does three things in my mind:
1. Gives a little bit more depth to the statement “Elves hate Orcs and want to destroy them” by implying that the Elves are revolted by the Orc’s origins and see killing Orcs as a sort of mercy for the Orcs.
2. Implies that the Orcs are not inherently evil, but are pitiable and deserve help and support.
3. Lowers further the standing of Morgoth et al – they’re not just power-hungry douchecanoes bent on world domination, they also torture and mutilate people for the evulz.
IIRC, it is canon that some Orcs managed to escape from Mordor and are redeemed (in the sense of not being evil anymore). I wish this had been included in the main text of the books and in the movies, as the stark black:white balance that comes across is both too simplistic and has all sorts of bad implications.
David M: “Almost the entire city of Ordos (Erduosi) is empty.”
Linky.
Was just shown this blog, and it’s some good and entertaining reading: Yo, is this racist?
Heh. I got 222-2222 ;)
Esteleth: I’ve always wondered HOW they crossbred orcs and humans. I mean, it seems fairly straightforward at first, but LOTR never really goes into detail about the reproductive habits of the orcs. (IIRC, the scenes in FOTR where the Uruk Hai are born out of slimy cocoons in the ground was taken from other non-Tolkien sources, and The Hobbit explicitly mentions Gollum preying on ‘Orc Children’).
I personally assume that Orcs reproduce sexually like any other primate species. But then that leaves the question of which half was the ‘father’ of the Uruk-hai. Luckily, since Uruk means Orc and when naming a hybrid the ‘male’ half of the name comes first, I think we have our answer there.
I wonder what female orcs look like. I bet they’re more attractive than you’d think.
Janine,
I missed the first link. I don’t quite know what to make of Joseph Spence, but I did not know that human voices make those sounds. Fascinating.
___
Sailor,
My mouth gets shredded by hard candies, suckers and such are right out, but every once in a while I can’t resist the Skittles and I pay for it later. Oh well, they are bad for me any way I look at it.
___
David M,
Why thank you. Hugs are good.
TLC/Esteleth:
chief grukgruk half orc too. other half, also orc.
But yeah, it includes the D&D version of the origin of the half-orc race…
Coyote,
Yeah, the oozing cocoons that Orcs “hatch” from irritated me. After that, the argument I had with someone over whether or not Ents reproduce by pollination or by sex (i.e. if they’re walking plants or animals that look planty) was downright refreshing.
Since Orc children are referred to in canon, I agree that it is probably primate-style sexual reproduction. WRT whether it is male human:female Orc or the other way, I’d argue in favor of an uneven breeding pattern, where they’re more Orc than human at the end. After all, the text says that Saruman wanted to introduce a single human trait into Orcs (the ability to withstand sunlight), and Uruk-hai are explictly described as a kind of Orc, not as a true half (compare the peredhel). So, I’d guess that Orcs (both male and female) were bred with humans (both female and male) and the resulting offspring (probably post-cull) were bred back into Orcs.
I have no idea what female Orcs look like. I did hear a theory that since male and female Elves resemble each other so strongly (i.e. Elven sexual dimorphism seems to be lower than human), maybe this trait remains in Orcs – so the random Orcs we see may be women. I’m not sure if I give this much credence, but it is possible.
Ben,
chief grukgruk frankly not want dwell on that very much.
A proper time to again mention Mary Gentle’s best work (IMO): Grunts!.
Here are some strange things one can do with a voice:
Inuit throat singing
Siberian throat singing
If you follow the links there are many more.
There’s also Glyndebourne, but I’ll spare you for the moment.
Hi, all. I’m’a be scarce around here for the holidays: I’m not going away (mad or otherwise); just taking a bit of the rest cure. Between earthquakes, hurricanes, treemageddon, insanely irresponsible colleagues at work, cancer diagnoses, and grad school apps, it’s been a truly draining fall for me, the Lovely Bride™, and the Brilliant Daughter®… it’s the reason we’re not traveling for the holidays as we had planned.
Anyway, before I go, I wanted to wish everyone happy holidays, and thank you all for the wonderfully kind and appropriate responses to my weirdly good news/bad news news.
See y’all in the new year….
I completely messed up this beanie I was trying to crochet. So now it’s going to be a pillow!
Sure, why not? I suppose it depends on which German you ask. I think this “nuance” is a distinction without a difference. They refer to the same thing. If there is such a thing as a “fine technique” or “fine craft” which is not “fine art,” or vice versa, I don’t know what it is.
Die Kunst der Fuge, Contrapunctus 1 & 4
Contrapunctuses? Contrapuncti?
I’ll take that bet. They are imaginary, so they are exactly as attractive as I think they are.
David Cameron is a loon.
+++++++++++++++++
Rick Perry is a loon and a crook.
+++++++++++++++++
Etta James has terminal leukemia, dementia and Hepatitis C.
More proof there is no god.
I disagree that it’s a distinction without a difference. The idea of the nuance is that you can be an expert in technique without necessarily being able to produce original art works. And vice versa, it’s also possible to make great art without being a full master of the techniques.
CM,
Very interesting. I remember hearing about such years ago, but not actually hearing it. The joys of the internet means I can remedy such.
Gavrilov; bent but unbowed:
WTC Prelude and Fugue #3
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=§ion=&global=1&q=celadon+toadstool#/do1vs0
I’ve worked with Tuvalu throat singers. And players of hurdy gurdys, sackbuts, & viola de gamdas. I had a very diverse career in sound. And I haven’t done that for 15 years. Jeebus, I’m old! How the fuck did that happen?
Sailor,
I should think survival.
Cloning. Like the bottled babies in Brave New World.
New orcs, without the iffiness of orcsex.
I’ve also recorded a klezmer album and a ukrainian religious music album. Back in the old days when we had ‘albums’ of vinyl and grooves.
Why yes, I am listening to a Prairie Home Companion, why do you ask?
And finally. Gavrilov, Chopin, Ballade #1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvMIBCtmSB4
(*ahem* Horowitz? ppp at 1:45, hmmm?)
Rey Fox: That looks way too idealized and ‘human’ for my liking. She could at least have some bigger fangs, and maybe some biceps.
Sili: Thanks, I never thought of the ‘cloning’ angle before. Makes more sense than Orcs just springing out of holes in the ground.
Esteleth: That sounds plausible at least. I never noticed the ‘reduced sexual dimorphism in Elves’ thing before, but it’s kind of obvious now that you point it out. Name one elf with facial hair, after all.
I always liked Gothmog. He rose above his disability and made something of himself. At least until Aragorn chopped his one good arm off and decapitated him (in the extended edition). I bet he had a cool backstory.
Regarding the reproduction of Ents (whether they’re animal like plants or plantlike animals): I seem to recall Treebeard talking about Ents that become ‘treeish’ and Huorns (I think? Trees, at any rate) becoming ‘Entish’. Plus the whole discussion of the Entwives. But figure this: If they could reproduce with pollen, then why were they going extinct? Botany isn’t my bag, but doesn’t Pollen carry on the wind for quite some distance?
On the other hand…. what would Ent-sex look like? I have a feeling they do it standing up.
Has everyone seen this cartoon about Hitchens’ death yet? (It was posted in the thread about that.)
It covers the entire spectrum from fine art to “the art of government/warfare/whatever” and “that’s not a science, it’s an art”. And künstlich means “artificial”, as does the prefix Kunst- much of the time.
BTW, polytonic Greek FTW. :-)
Same here.
Reminds me of a moment of language nerdery. :-) When I introduced the voiced lateral alveolar fricative (sound files accessible from here) to my sister, she was astounded and said “but that’s not even possible!”
^_^
The text is even better!
Where? Both upper arms are hidden.
It does.
Gob help me, I just imagined what entish reproductive organs look like.
Anyone familiar with ‘Old Man’s Beard’ moss? Yeah.
“Back in the old days when we had ‘albums’ of vinyl and grooves.”
What are these days of which you speak? My albums all still have grooves.
Some of them, though–brace yourself–are laser etched. Rawk.
TLC:
Círdan
Morales: Well, that shut me up.
Moniker: Rawk on. Rawk on.
I think it’s something of a mistake to look for any veiled hint of anything sexual anywhere in LOTR. There’s poignant romantic love – the tale of Beren and Lúthien, for instance, or Arwen and Aragorn, or Sam and Rosie Cotton – but sex doesn’t seem to have crossed Tolkien’s mind even once in the course of writing it. (And even in the sphere of romantic love, the soppy-romantic-soft-focus scenes in the movie with Arwen and Aragorn don’t have any counterpart in the book; those who wrote the screenplay evidently decided there needed to be a little more romance.)
Walton: Yeah, I know. Tolkien left it up to guys like me to imagine the rest. It was very clever of him.
I can’t help it. My mind ALWAYS ‘goes there’.
Walton, presumably Sam and Rosie’s thirteen children were virgin births? :)
(Plowman Samgee)
What amazed me the most in the movies was that, though Tolkien is sparse on details of dress, faces, locations, scenery, etc, save for Riendell, Middle Earth looked much like I saw it through his writings.
=====
Football announcers are hilarious when they try to sound edjumicated. “Too many penalties make the head coach implode internally.”
And finally finally, since the subject is Ents:
Botanical Wednesday: Get some pants on!
No?
Or, The Actual Penis Trees.
Damn. I linked to the page, not the image. Scroll down a little bit to see it. Er, them. Them. yeah.
That’s the thing about LOTR, and many of the books of a similar era I read as a child*… people fall in love, get married, and have children, but there’s no hint of sex anywhere. It’s just an aspect of life that isn’t depicted, in the same way that bodily functions aren’t depicted. This is partly because it was aimed at young people, of course (albeit less so than The Hobbit, which is explicitly a children’s book). And it is, after all, a product of 1940s and 50s England, and Tolkien himself was a devout Catholic and a morally-conservative character.
(*I learned to read very early in life,** and was reading Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Enid Blyton and the like around the time I started school. I often think this shaped my view of the world rather too much. Along with TV shows like Babar, to which I credit, in part, my lifelong monarchism.)
(**My freakishly-good reading only partly made up for the fact that I was really, really, really useless at most things involving advanced motor skills, from sports to drawing to tying my shoelaces. Even learning to write was a struggle; I could type before I could write by hand. I’ve often suspected I have undiagnosed dyspraxia. But I digress.)
BTW Thanks a lot John Morales, now I can’t stop picturing Sam and Rosie doing the dirty monkey dance.
Walton: On a more serious note, I do find it tiresome when books go the other route and explicitly describe sex *cough Auel cough*. It’s about as interesting as I imagine explicit depictions of “other bodily functions” as you put it would be in a novel.
Some things are just better left to the reader’s imagination. For instance, I imagine taking a dump must have really sucked when Sam and Frodo were climbing that wall to Shelob’s lair. Though with all that lembas bread, they probably didn’t have to poop much. And it’s not exactly easy to find leaves to wipe with in Mordor.
I really have to find something else to think about. This is what lack of sleep does to me.
In fairness, Cirdan’s beard was “rare for elves”, so the reduced sexual dimorphism claim still holds.
A slight digression while nuance is on the table – what do people think of the distinction between sexism and misogyny? I think that there is one – “sexism” is the sea we’re all swimming in; we can’t avoid it although we can work in our various ways to reduce or ameliorate it. But “misogyny” seems more virulent than that – actively rather than unthinkingly supporting sexism. So in those terms, a person who advocates the education and empowerment of girls and women and the eradication of sexism is probably not misogynist, but they may well still be quite unthinkingly sexist. What do you think?
There is help out there if you need it. One does not need to resign oneself to a lifetime of monarchism and related debauchery. Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Alethea: I never thought about that before.
Thing is, I’m not sure your definition of pure misogyny works. Most outright misogynists I’ve known had no real idea they were misogynists deep down. I’ve met one or two that were so bad, they had to have some idea that they hated women, but they were thankfully kinda rare in my experience.
But this may be better left to people who know what they’re talking about better than me.
@walton, not because it was aimed at children. Because anything else was “racy”, and clearly inviting prurience and probably censorship. I mean look at Lady Chatterly’s Lover – not such a terribly smutty book in modern terms, but observe how much even in that so-scandalous text is elided and hidden. Even Lord Chatterly’s rather plot-relevant impotence must be inferred.
I grew up on the tail end of that era – my parents were teens in the late 40s – and any reference to sex was considered inappropriate. Even the word “pregnant” was hushed and euphemised, and you certainly wouldn’t explain why that lady was so fat! Or dare to let such a thing be seen on TV. Things have changed a great deal more than most young people recognise.
Alethea H. Claw:
We apparently disagree about something concerning the nature of art, but I’m not sure what. I don’t think originality is what constitutes the difference between “fine art” and “craft” or “technique.” I don’t think one can be an expert technically without demonstrating originality, or be original without having known or discovered some technical means to do so.
Hmm, I think “sexism” refers generally to prejudice against women as well as men, or to such distinctions between them. “Misogyny” also carries with it false assumptions about male gender roles, but taken literally it refers primarily to the false and harmful effect of prejudices against women. I guess both primarily harm women more than men, so it’s not always clear to me whether one term is more appropriate than the other.
Walton, thank you for your analysis of Tolkien re Middle England. Since we got a LOTR discussion going: I’ve often heard that LOTR has one of the biggest potholes ever in the history of literature: namely, why didn’t Gandalf just fly to Mount Doom on a giant eagle together with Frodo and have him throw the ring into it under supervision?
Works for me. BTW, someplace else you count a compound noun as two nouns. That’s not necessarily correct, but not wrong either. The problem of wordhood is one of the hairiest issues in linguistics, after all..
My bokmål grammar would like to disagree with you:
en dag/dagen v. ei avis/avisa. However, in bokmål feminine nouns CAN be construed as masculine: en avis/avisen. This would even be true for nouns such as jente.
Also, some Swedish dialects have preserved the feminine gender. I’ve also read on the Pfft that Finland Swedish has too, but have yet to come across an official source that confirms that. Maybe someone here knows?
Sorry, imprecise usage on my part: my sources agree that the Germanic word is “of uncertain origin”, but do note the possible connection to the Tocharian word.
What I meant: do you use national party lists, or party lists state by state?
The KPD was outlawed in 1968. Then the DKP sprang into existence. Now, it seems that some of the DKP members have been running as PDS candidates, and then later as Left Party candidates, so my earlier claim about DKP people being part of the WASG movement might be strenuous. (There is talk of a electoral law reform barring people from running as candidates for a party they’re not members of, I suspect the CSU behind this move).
ABRIDGED HISTORY OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY IN GERMANY:
1869-1890: Social Democratic movement starts in Germany, founding of SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany) in 1890-
1919: KPD (Communist Party of Germny) splits off of SPD
after 1945, in the two Germanies:
East: 1946: forcible union of SPD and KPD to form the SED (Socialist Unity Party).
1989: SPD re-founded in the East, SED renames itself SED-PDS (Socialist Unity Party-Party of Democratic Socialism), later the SED part is dropped, so the party name becomes PDS.
West:
1968: KPD outlawed by Constitutional Court
1968: DKP (German Communist Party) founded
Reunited Germany:
Agenda 2010 policy, proposed by SPD-Green government in 2003, sparks protest movement, which then consolidates itself in the form of the WASG in 2004. WASG was first just an association, in 2005 a party of the same is founded.
In 2007, the PDS and WASG merge, ultimately settling on the name Die Linke (The Left)
Farsi misogyny
Just wanted to add, that the lawsuit actually involved immigrants from Afghanistan, not Iran. Dari is one of the languages of Afghanistan and can be regarded as a dialect of Farsi.
Then the h wouldn’t be there. Or it would be in both languages, and werewolves would be wherewolves. Right? Could it have something to do with “who”? … That would fit with the fact that my dialect of German uses wer “who” instead of jemand “some-/anyone”.
Yeah, the vowel was off too.
“wer” instead of “jemand” can be found in colloquial standard German too. Either as “irgendwer” or just “wer”.
[meta]
Walton, FFS stop making me want to like you!
(Grr)
Yeah, it’s something I’m thinking about and this is tentative. Not the derailing version – that “misogynists hate woman but I love the laydeez” waaarrrgarble – but whether there is still a meaningful distinction. Not all sexist assholes are MRAs, some are just privilege-blinded. Not all sexists want to be sexists.
oh and the borked link regarding Helmut Kohl’s so-called new morals was this
This, from the English-language Pfft, doesn’t go into much detail. But Helmut Kohl back then employed the amnesia defence, claiming not remember many details about how Flick had given so many illicit contribution to his party.
Tibetan throat singing
I think the problem is that sexism and misogyny are often used synonymously in everyday speech. Insisting on establishing precise distinctions between the two might be problematic as long as there is no agreement in the linguistic community to do so.
It might be better to use qualifiers such as “conscious”, “implicit” etc in order to avoid flame wars about word definitions.
pelamun:
Duh — because if he’d been so bloody obvious, Sauron would have noticed and stymied the attempt (and captured the ring and WON).
(No-one expects the Heroic Hobbit!)
Consciousness razor: there’s skill and there’s vision. Great artists usually have both. But consider van Meegeren: very highly skilled indeed.
they are often used synonymously when referring to “prejudice against women”, irrespective of intent.
Bah. I can do throat-clearing.
(Uuughhrrhhhghhr)
Brother Ogvorbis, OM #257
I didn’t like Peter Jackson’s idea of Rivendell either. The place is in the mountains. As depicted, it would be impossible to heat during the winter.
OTOH, Hobbiton, Edoras, and Minas Tirith looked just as I’d imagined them.
this doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have the right to draw distinctions like this. Also in academic disciplines, terms have often more precise meanings, but they can differ depending on the approach etc (linguistics is notorious for this, so you always have to check first what the author means by “subject” etc).
But if used in a more colloquial context like here, for instance, one should be aware that different people use the term differently, and probably adapt one’s use accordingly.
To throat-sing, I first have to chug a 2-liter bottle of soda.
*braaaap*
John,
well Gandalf was a Maia too, didn’t he have some kind of cloaking device (oops, wrong genre).
But Sauron couldn’t have done much? Did the Orcs even have anti-air units? Why couldn’t you steer your eagle way above the clouds until you were directly above Mt. Doom and then fly down in a swift motion before Sauron ever knew what hit him?
Pelamun, you have a good point. What I’m wondering is partly if there is a usage distinction that I’m not aware of, and partly if there should be.
Also, it’s quite clear in the book that the eagles could only go in once the ring was destroyed and Sauron’s control had lapsed. Maybe not so clear in the movie?
Sam Adams Infinium… meh
Pelamum, the Eye (piercing all shadows) had the Winged Nazgûl in reserve. Sheesh!
“Vision” in this is sense is a skill.
Same here. It reminded me of a Michael Parkes calendar without even the consolation of cartoonish sexuality.
I was sort of disappointed in Minas Tirith. It looked kind of small, compared to what I was thinking.
Hobbiton was sufficiently small. :)
Regarding the eagles: I assumed it was because they were busy doing, you know, eagle stuff.
Maybe it was their mating season?
Pelamun: Anti air units? Maybe not…. but they did have their own ‘Air Force’. Yeah, the eagles flew in and handily kicked their asses, but maybe they couldn’t do that until, as Alethea said, Sauron’s control had lapsed.
A cursory look at Wikipedia suggests that different scholars use different meanings, I didn’t find an easy way to summarise these differences. Well if a speaker thinks there should be a difference, they will use the words accordingly. If it is accepted by other speakers, then it might catch on.
ah, thanks for pointing that out. Yeah the greatest plothole ever meme is usually mentioned regarding the movies. I did read the books, but it’s been a long time ago. Maybe I should re-read them…
Because then there wouldn’t have been a reason to blather on for hundreds and hundreds of pages about complete irrelevancies like Tom Bombadil. Sorry, I know, great epic story, shaped fantasy as we know it, unparalleled worldbuilding, but I still think the man seriously needed a merciless editor.
re: Sexism and Misogyny
I view them as different things (keep in mind, this is only my useless internepinion (and I am watching NFL football as I write and try to think)).
See, I realize that I am sexist. The socialization of school, scouts, playing football, college, the army, you name it, they all play into me being sexist. Sexism is so ingrained in our society that we are all, whethere conscious of it or not, sexist. Which means that I must be on my toes in any situation to make sure that my bias as a sexist male does not come out in any way. And I try. I really do. And I am occasionally successful.
Misogynists, however, revel in the sexism of western culture. Whether through anger or fear, misogyny uses insults, threats, shaming, and silencing to intentionally and deliberately remove women from the situation, whatever that situation is. In extreme situations, the observer wonders if the misogynist even views females as fully human.
This sounds rather harsh, right? I think I have evidence for it.
Again, I recognize that I am sexist. When, whether through ignorance, laziness or carelessness, I say, or write, or do something which is sexist, I really do hope that someone points it out. I may or may not agree with my critic who views my action as sexist, but I will openly entertain the idea that I am wrong. I recognize that it is not a personal attack, but rather an attempt to make society more inclusive.
A misogynist, however, views any attempt to point out sexist behaviour on their part as an attack, as an attempt to feminize him. He will then dig in his heals and, even when confronted with personal stories, peer-reviewed studies, articles in academic journals, and the opinions of those with professional or academic credentials, will refuse to even entertain the possibility that he might be wrong. For a perfect example of this behaviour, think about what happens when the word ‘twat’ is used as an insult — with a probability approaching one, the argument from Engicism will show up.
So, basically, I view sexism as a societal problem which can be ameliorated through education, engagement, correction where applicable, and discussion. Misogyny is more of a personal problem and is highly resistant to education, engagement, correction and discussion. Which is unfortunate as it does have widespread societal implications such as the continuation of rape culture.
Does this make sense? or am I overdue to bed?
Brother O,
that makes sense. It also comes from the fact that misogyny ORIGINALLY meant “hatred of women”. So that has left a strong after-effect with many.
But, there are some who also use “misogyny” in a way like “prejudice against women”, and that can be unintentional too.
I just notice that some MRAs use the etymology attempt in order to derail threads, in what which could be a called a silencing technique. Which is why I think it’s fine to draw distinctions like you do, but not expect others to have the same. In doubt, use explicit qualifiers so no misunderstandings arise.
“use the etymology argument in an attempt to derail…”
It’s me who needs an editor :D!
Got Mass Effect 2 and playing it so far. Enjoying it. An hour in and I have finished the backstory and am ready to play!
On the sexism thing, that’s why I flipped a coin for gender.
SO said that it’s apparently a ‘fact’ that Sagan was high when filming cosmos (fact being it’s on Wikipedia), anyone have confirmation?
*yes I know I can look it up but it also helps build conversation here*
On politics:
A new poll on the views of Americans on class inequality has been released and there is something that really bothers me. Apparently, most are willing to agree with the goals and views of the Occupy movement, but don’t agree with the tactics. I wonder how is Occupy movement supposed to protest then? No matter what they do, they will always be branded as offensive and too aggressive. Not only that, if they don’t protest, how are they supposed to change the country? They think the country can be changed by talking nicely?
Phew, I had to get this out of my system.
I was high for quite a long time there, but I don’t really recall Sagan being there. Whether being high is a good thing, it’s made-up bullshit, the burden of proof being on them which they have apparently failed to meet. Them’s the facts.
@Ibyea
It seems to be the same pattern the Civil Rights movement had. Don’t be discouraged, such poll numbers may be expected.
I am up for a game of orcball. Who shall be volunteered to provide the ball?
So I was listening to WAMC (Albany NY public radio; it’s pretty awesome that I can still listen even 4 hours away) and I caught this gem by Lou and Peter Berrymore (a wonderful folky songwriting duo, if you’ve never heard of them):
I’m just very sad that there’s no video recording available of that particular song. Here is another video of them performing, in case you want to get an impression. It’s also quite a funny song: “Why am I painting the living room?”
Yeah, I read a few chapters of Lady Chatterley’s Lover on Wikisource once. The sexual content is very mild, by modern standards. I suspect some of its original shock-value stemmed from the open transgression of class boundaries (the lady of the house sleeping with the gamekeeper), rather than the actual sex. It’s interesting how standards change so much over time.
Though, to be fair, the 1960 obscenity trial in England was really a last gasp of the establishment; I gather that most of the public at the time thought the prosecution was an utter farce. Prosecuting counsel’s question to the jury as to whether it was “a book one would want one’s wife or servants to read” was, reportedly, widely mocked.
The Obscene Publications Act 1959, passed the previous year, represented a major liberalization of the law from the old common-law position, given that it required the prosecution to prove that a work was liable to “deprave and corrupt the morals” of those likely to read it, and had an express exception for works of artistic value. It was still rather silly, but a huge improvement on the status quo ante. After Lady Chatterley, later prosecutions under the Act were mainly of much more controversial texts – like the Little Red Schoolbook (which eventually reached the European Court of Human Rights in Handyside v United Kingdom) and Schoolkids Oz. (John Mortimer QC, a hero of mine and the creator of Rumpole of the Bailey, appeared for the defence in many of the great obscenity trials.) These days, with the Internet, the Act is pretty much a dead letter, thankfully.
Of course, in the US, the most famous obscenity trial was of Joyce’s Ulysses. Again, the offending chapter is now available on Wikisource, and is again remarkably mild – just a rather unpleasant description of a man masturbating. (It’s one of the few parts of Ulysses that is actually comprehensible; I’ve never really understood why people like that book so much. But YMMV.)
Sally: I don’t know the song, but adore the lyrics. Once I actually get some new damned headphones that actually work, I’ll have to listen to it.
Apart from anything else, I’ve always had a distinct appreciation for the art of rhyme. It’s one of the principal reasons why I love Gilbert and Sullivan (who else but Gilbert could come up with rhyming “caravanserai” with “wards in Chancery”?), Tom Lehrer, and Roy Zimmerman, all of whom are masters of this particular craft.
(Conversely, bad rhyme is incredibly frustrating. I get the occasional overwhelming impulse to inform Kid Rock that, no, “bottle” does not rhyme with “tomorrow”. It just doesn’t. Not even close.)
Walton,
No shit.
Again, no shit.
The land that gave us the Khajuraho Group of Monuments and the Kama Sutra is now one of the most prudish in the world.
(Thanks ever so much, O Victorian England!)
Well, I think you’d like Lou and Peter Berrymore then, Walton. I’ve seen them perform a couple of times, at the Old Songs Festival in Altamont NY (near Albany). They are quite entertaining, and super lefty to boot–apparently they have played for some Occupy protests near them.
Also, why would you subject yourself to Kid Rock? I am sorry that you had to experience that.
Word to the wise:
A WORD CANNOT RHYME WITH ITSELF.
@Ing
Your comment actually discouraged me a bit more. Because it suggests people aren’t learning anything from history. I feel like the lessons from that era were wasted on them. :(
walton #301
Because it’s supposed to be great literature and meaningful and significant and stuff like that. At least Ulysses has its moments of coherency. Finnegan’s Wake is unintelligible. But it’s loved by English Lit professors so it must be good. Or so they say.
Yo Kristinc, I paid for that pattern, but it is taking a while to process the payment… would you object to sharing? You can email it to sally lichtenstein 303 at yahoo dot com. (all one word, no spaces or underlines)
Fuck, I’m impatient.
I didn’t do so voluntarily… it was played at me over gym speakers a few times, back in England. (Back when I was actually in the habit of regular exercise. *sigh*)
And now I should be studying, since I have an exam on Monday in International Humanitarian Law (otherwise known as Law of Armed Conflict) which I am going to fail. I’ve got to the point where I’m so certain of impending failure that I’m now doing anything I can to avoid actually working, including arguing about male circumcision.
If you were into hip hop, Walton, I’d also recommend Akrobatik (he’s local, from Boston, you might even be able to see him live!): he once rhymed “misogynist” with “dodgin’ this.”
(I’m also forcing myself to read a 2002 Bush administration Office of Legal Counsel memorandum, in which the author argues, inter alia, (a) that no part of the Geneva Conventions applies to the war against al-Qaeda, since it’s neither a war against another state party under Common Article 2 nor an “armed conflict not of an international character” under Common Article 3, and (b) that even if the Conventions did apply, the President’s Article II powers as Commander-in-Chief give him the constitutional right to ignore international humanitarian law entirely if he wants to. It’s probably the only time I’ve been studying for an exam and have found myself saying “What a fucking stupid argument” out loud. Thankfully, the Supreme Court later rejected both of these arguments in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, although it did affirm the President’s power to detain “unlawful combatants” indefinitely in military detention.)
Sally: sent!
Why does FTB think I was logged out? Odd.
I discovered pannetone yesterday. Chocolate-covered pannetone to be exact, at Trader Joes, but the price for the plain one was much more reasonable than for the chocolate covered. I can melt a little milk chocolate and drizzle it over some chunks of the plain kind. I had imagined disappointing-raisin-bread dryness, but it’s so delicious. I need to bake more with candied peel, I really do.
Walton,
Because I do love you*: do yourself a favour, and resume it.
Please.
(I am certain that this is not something you will ever regret)
—
* I am being unironic, and literal. (But not sexual)
Yaay! Thanks kristinc. I got it.
I put tinsel on my christmas tree. The cats wont stop eating it :/
*resists the urge to make a ‘floss the cat’ joke*
kristinc, pannetone is the bomb. Try it toasted with a little butter or chocolate on it. There’s a chocolate chip pannetone on the market, but I can’t remember where my brother got it. That was amazingly (possibly sinfully?) delicious.
Excuse me, SallyStrange. You seem knowledgeable about this music stuff. Do you know any bands with a sound similar to Mumford and Sons?
Makes sense to me, Brother OgVorbis. I take the point that we can’t force the usage but I think it’s a useful distinction. Perhaps more for fellow-activist or academic use than in the big arguments – which is why I posted here, for feedback. (Activist? Moi? TBH, much more slacktivist these days.)
In other news, I have just come back from the last minute Xmas top-up shopping, where I bought some Turkish ceramics for a mere 5-10x the price they were in Turkey. And succumbed to the lure of fancy face-goop and just a couple more books that I had to have. At least I bought more books for presents than for me. And fancy face goop is pretty much my only girly vice.
Awwwww… but monarchy is so much fun. It’s the only political issue or institution I actually enjoy discussing any more, and the only one that makes me feel warm and fuzzy and comforted. Everything else is so depressingly awful, and the more I learn about social realities, the worse it seems.
(If I ever cease to be a monarchist, I will turn into something rather like Marvin from Hitchhiker’s Guide. Or Eeyore.)
Walton, you like monarchy… if you ever want to try military SF, try reading the Honorverse series by David Weber — it’s as pro-monarchical as it gets.
(A Horatio Hornblower
homageripoff (the protagonist is a woman, Honor Stephanie Alexander-Harrington), and much of the ouvre is available for free from Baen Free Library)I’ve always been able to enjoy the personal (?) side of politics as a spectator sport. Who’s up, who’s down. You can follow the “leagues” in different countries, and place your “bets” on Election Day. Especially the US, with all its concurrent election. I still fondly remember the time when George Clooney’s dad was running for office.
Billy Bragg & Wilco?
The Decemberists?
I’ll have to listen to more than one of their songs (which I have now heard twice, it is quite lovely and heartfelt).
It’s not a style of music I’m most conversant with. What are the qualities in them that you’re seeking to find in other musicians?
What’s wrong with that? I like Marvin and Eeyore. At least they aren’t monarchists. I say go for it.
“The Cave” by Mumford of Sons is now reminding me of David Gray. Although I feel iffy about the music video. It seems to be making some sort of statement about colonialism. I haven’t really taken in any of the words besides the chorus. I heard an interview with them on NPR a while back (I listen to NPR on the daily) so I’ve heard a few of these songs before. It’s good music. Thanks for asking. Even if my recs aren’t the hippest, I learned something.
Also, Iron and Wine comes up first after M&S when I started a M&S station. Iron and Wine has also been a fairly frequent contributor to my Toubab Krewe station so I can safely say they’re pretty awesome.
Air-borne Nazgûl. With the probability of additional “fell beasts” flappin’ around unridden, since I’m betting they kept a breeding population of ’em.
–
This is why we stopped putting tinsel on the trees. While our cats always successfully achieved throughput, I’ve read horrible stories of cats who required emergency surgical intervention, at very high prices, to get it out of there.
–
It’s barely freezing, snowing and the cat is on the heating pad.
Bill Dauphin
Have a great holiday.
PTI re pannetone: I had actually thought of Nutella. But I haven’t any Nutella in the house. Sad.
Cats and tinsel: yeah, that stuff can have sharp edges. Tinsel, Easter grass and all similar substances are banned from my house on pain of a sharp lecture (“Sharp lecture?” says the spouse. “You’ll kick our asses.”. Pity because I grew up with tinsel, love the way it looks and enjoy that soppy old German fairy tale about the first tinsel’d tree.
Cicely: IIRC, the fell beasts in the novel were sort of implied to be the last of their kind, or near last.
I wish we still had some kind of flying creature big enough to ride around on.
Problem is, it’d probably be more interested in eating us than being a sweet ride.
TLC:
“Still”?
We never did!
(OTOH, emus are ridable)
John Morales: Sorry, I should have said “I wish the planet still had creatures on it big enough to ride around on”, such as quetzalcoatlus or them teratorns.
*FLYING creatures. Ugh.
Good morning
*blargh*
Not so good. Shouldn’t have gone full speed again yesterday.
pelamun
I disagree. During the last years, whenever I moved outside of Alsace/Loraine where we can communicate in our “common” language, Frenhc people have started speaking horrible English that I found much harder to understand than French (they then presumed that I didn’t understand English either).
My problem is that I can understand French very well. Only when I try to speak or write, I substitute Spanish…
Pog mo hon
Short o in pog as in “tock”, o in mo more like a schwa, ehm, like the e in “gimme a kiss”, o in hon more like a swan, only longer.
Problem is that for the unsuspecting stranger, Irish pronounciation has zilch to do with orthography. That’s, of course, not true, it’s much more consistent than English which has hardly any rules, but those rules are pretty far removed from what you know about any other language.
Please, don’t get me started on Tolkien (you don’t want to, you’re talking to somebdy whose nym is Sindarin)
Okay, you had to do it….
Tolkien himself considered LoTR to be the “lost ancient saga from England”, especially in the early forms of his writings.
English is lacking its own early medieval narrative that is so characteristic of most European countries, like the Song of Roland (is that the English name?) in France, the Niebelungensaga in Germany, the Edda and so on. What did the English get? Beowulf, which is Danish. So he tried to invent that. In the early versions that are now published as the “Lost Tales” you have Eorl, a visitor from the continent, visit Tol Eressea, the lonly Island, which resembles Britain.
For LoTR, Tolkien denied all real-world political parallels. He mourned the loss of the English countryside due to industrialisation, which he kept alive in the world of the Hobbits (and even their social structure), their destruction by Saruman who industrializes th Shire.
The racist connotations played quite a role when they made the movies. You had a large set of Maori actors who were cast to play the play the evil Uruk-Hai*, while all those white and pale people got to play the Elves, Noble Men and Hobbits. And then you have the Haradrim and the Easterlings who have clear parallels to Sub-SAharan Africans and Arabs. When they were creating the Mordor Ork, Jackson finally put a stop to it. They were WHITE. FULL STOP. Not another group of bad guys who are dark.
Oh, you never saw the sea of Nurn in the movie (it is mentioned in the book, I think, that that’s where they grew the food for the armies). It’s like only ever seeing Utah and Nevada and then understanding why the USA invade other countries.
Anyway, Sauron and Saruman didn’t “offer” them anything, they created them to be killers.
In the Hobbit the Orcs in the Misty Mountains aren’t yet that unequivocally evil, but from the early conceptions the Orcs were always tortured, manipulated Elves. As Esteleth said, there’s some kind of “truce” after LoTR is over.
That’s Igorinas you’re thinking about. IIRC, in the Hobbit they are mentioned to be, well, like you’d imagine the female version of the Orcs. Saruman’s breeding scheme isn’t examplary of the rest.
And this feature makes him stand out, much like a Bearded Lady.
Given the number of little Sammies that happen, I disagree.
But the Elves only ever fuck to have kids, perfect little catholics.
Ogvorbis
You didn’t, by any chance, read the illustrated Alan Lee version?
;)
TLC
Intresting, that’s the version I like best.
BTW, there is an explenation for Gothmog. He was maimed in the war and therefore bears such hatred against humans. I thought that a wonderful resemblance to TRW: Instead of hating his evil master who set him against people who’d have preferred to stay at home themselves, his hatred turns against them.
pelamun
1956, for the sake of accuracy.
Well, in other scandals about illegal party donations he claimed that his promise that he’d given the donors was more important than the oath he’d sworn to uphold the German constitution and laws…
John Morales
Not true, they’d just been de-horsed by the Bruinen.
I know of an RPG group who drove their master mad with the airstrike approach.
*Lawrence Makore, one of them, still makes me drool
Not necessarily. If I ever get dementia, I’d hope that someone shoots me, or that a quick devastating illness wipes me off the planet.
A somewhat late thank you to SallyStrange for the recommendations. Very much appreciated.
hmm
I wonder how Tolkein would feel about the elves depicted in the
Book of Erotic Fantasy (which, to be honest, I found way more enjoyable than The Silmarillion).
Giliell,
Yeah, it is the English name. I think the closest the English came to that was King Arthur (the Spanish have El Cid Campeador).
(There is Browning’s poem Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came, but that’s different)
Meanwhile, in the Philippines
I’ve had a really bad day today, for a variety of reasons, and then this storm hit a region of the Phils where I have friends. They are safe, but 569 and counting weren’t so lucky. I reflect in the post on why god hates the Phils.
duh.
God is obviously a rich white patriarchal Yankees fan. Plus, have you been to Philadelphia?
Nope. Nor have I ever seen the Rankin Bass production. Sorry.
=====
Pannetone. I love that. Cuts down on arguing with the printer, “No, maroon should have a little more red in it” and such nonsense.
Consider yourself lucky
Fuck, playing doctor on the internet says I probably have caught pyelitis. Sounds like doctor appointment tomorrow morning.
Sexual dimorphism in LOTR?
No-one mentions dwarves.
Huh? Must be the beards.
I have friends who are into that (including some who even place actual bets on election results). I’m not; I’ve never enjoyed sports in general, and I’m not keen on the “sport” of party politics any more than on other sports. I have strong political views, and I’m very interested in constitutions and systems of government, but party politics I most often find ridiculous and frustrating. (Because, unlike sports, there are serious and important issues involved that make a big difference to people’s lives: and when all three parties are saying and doing utterly stupid things about immigration, for instance, and pandering to the xenophobic ignorance of the voters, I just can’t handle it.)
I used to care about party politics back when I supported a party (which is, indeed, much like supporting a football team for many people), but now I find the whole thing so ridiculous and farcical that I find it hard to take an interest. Britain has been governed for a million years by the Labourservative Democrats, nothing changes, we’re governed by different cliques of the same narrow élite of professional politicians, and what passes for “political discourse” is like a Punch and Judy show. And on some of the vital social justice issues, there’s just no discernible difference between the parties, and no prospect of change through the democratic process.
I’m more and more convinced that anyone who wants to be elected to high public office, and is willing to make all the moral compromises that one has to make in rising through the ranks of a party, is exactly the kind of person who shouldn’t be trusted with power. (Not that genuinely-moral people aren’t sometimes elected, but they rarely get to the top, and usually aren’t very successful, because – by definition – they aren’t willing to tailor their beliefs to political expediency. There’s a reason why Obama is president and not, say, Bernie Sanders.) That’s why I’m more and more of an anarcho-monarchist; that government is best which governs not at all, but if we have to have one, an extremely inefficient and ineffective hereditary monarchy would probably be best.
Ha. I maintain that the only difference between a British general election and a farcical sword-throwing aquatic ceremony is that the latter would be cheaper, and would probably produce a higher quality of leadership.
I’m watching “Ronia the Robber’s Daughter” on TV. I had almost forgotten how wonderfully relaxed the 80’s were:
The Robbers have to wash themselves in the snow and you get to see naked men running around, full front shots and all of that, in a kids’ movie, just as if human bodies were something wonderful you don’t need to be ashamed of.
Can you imagine that?
The aquatic mandate did, in theory, produce a better government for a while at least. It does have some appeal to me, more than the enlightened self-interest rationale of some places.
I have something I can be happy about today.
(the things I am unhappy about are either out of my immediate grasp – I mean the big stuff, the kinds of things people talk about on pharyngula – or they are stuff in my own life which is largely my own bloody stupid fault and not interesting; but today I can haz a happy because:)
DaughterSpawn arrived home today after the very first term of her very first year away at uni. And she loves her course. Already heard that from her over the phone of course, but I’m SO glad to hear in person and in detail that biochemistry is the greatest and most (not all, but most) of her teachers are brilliant and labs are fun and cell biology is the coolest thing ever. So, it’s only the very first term of the very first year, but phew – it’s wonderful to know she chose the right course! And it’s fun! And there are some nice people doing it! And it’s going well so far! And yay!!!!!!
Completely thread bankrupt. Just popping in to say, “hi”.
How’s everybody?
Here’s another billboard story: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10773887
In this story, some Catholics defaced an Anglican billboard.
Hi, Audley.
I haven’t had to reprogramme my computer with a spike maul yet. I suppose that is a good thing, right?
Oggie:
So far. Not so great that you’re contemplating, uh, percussive and stabby maintenance, though.
Odd that they freak over that, but not over this. Showing the human side of the fictional construct is bad, using the fictional construct to make money is good.
I really don’t understand.
Unfortunately, there is no way for me to kinetically reprogramme a CMS, is there?
I still haven’t told you about the PhD Comics book (volume 4), autographed by Jorge Cham, that Jadehawk gave me in Rhinebeck. Everyone says it’s such a realistic depiction of grad student life, at least in the US. Three of the depicted scenes in particular have indeed happened to me.
P. 96:
Professor (from outside the picture, while nameless main character looks in dismay): “I don’t understand why you’re not making progress on your thesis.”
Professor (in his armchair, which is shown from behind, so only his pointing hand is visible, while nameless main character looks scared): “You need to stop getting distracted and focus exclusively on your research.”
Professor (from outside the picture, while nameless main character gazes in unbelief): “By the way, did you finish that side project I assigned you? – Also, you need to fix the lab equipment, upgrade the servers and prepare new slides.”
Nameless main character: “Wait, which part do you not understand?”
Professor (from outside the picture): “The part that you’re still here wasting time. Go! Go!”
My supervisor was a lot nicer about it, but did give me a huge side project that delayed the completion of my MSc thesis and became my first and my second paper when I should have been working on my PhD thesis. After (I think after) that side project had spawned a third paper, we agreed to change my official thesis topic (amniote phylogeny & origin of turtles) to the side project (tetrapod phylogeny & origin of modern amphibians). I’ve done very little work on the original thesis topic.
Oh, and, two more side projects have turned into published papers by now. :-) One would have been a nice beginning for my original thesis topic.
P. 13:
“A biological tour of
The Lab/Office Fridge
And Its Contents of Mystery!”
Picture of open fridge and open freezer compartment with lines connecting the contents to explanations.
“Empty ice tray (not me!)”
“Impenetrable Ice Glacier” making up 2/3 of volume of freezer compartment
“Discolored ice layers chronicle history of air odor quality”
“Air Freshner [sic] (gave up in 1988)”
“Happy Hour Drinks – Stealing will incur wrath of department admin. assistant. Proceed with extreme Caution”
“Milk container from some grad’s ‘I’ll eat cereal at work’ phase, 1994”
“Unlabeled Tupperware [biohazard sign, toxicity sign] DO NOT OPEN Contact Haz Mat Unit Immediately.”
“Penicillum dannonum (new species!) Colony originated from spilled yogurt, c. 1976.”
“Original location of Penicillum dannonum”
petri dish: “Actual Culture used in Lab Experiments”
no line: “Leftover Desperation Index
Old Pizza – 1
Half-eaten Sandwich – 5
Ketchup (expired) – 7”
I’ve never worked in a lab with a fridge. But I’ve been to plenty of molecular-biology labs with fridges in them. Every single one of those fridges, on two continents, carries big, glaring warnings: “Food only” or “Do not ever put any food anywhere near this fridge”. Apparently, then, the problem is real. :-)
P. 14: Nameless main character and 2 nameless friends have just eaten at an Asian noodle place.
Friend 1: “Hey, check out my fortune cookie fortune: ‘Your search for knowledge will soon come to fruition.'”
Friend 2: “Huh, mine says: ‘Great discoveries come to those with patience and perseverance.'”
Friend 1: “Whoa…”
Friend 2: “These are strangely appropriate…”
Friend 1: “Yeah…”
Friend 1: “What’s yours say?”
Nameless main character: “‘You will never graduate.'”
A few days before Rhinebeck, my uncle took me to a pan-East-Asian restaurant near Emory University. His fortune cookie: “☺ You have at your command the wisdom of the ages. ☺” Quite appropriate for a scientist, I thought, standing on shoulders of giants and all. My fortune cookie: “☺ You look pretty. ☺”
I hadn’t been that disappointed in a long time. X-)
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
Throat-singing: I think I can technically do it, except I can’t get the overtones to be loud enough. They’re probably not audible outside my skull.
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:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Wow!
Voilà, quoi.
:-D :-D :-D
That’s interesting, because I remember believing pregnancy was a magical consequence of marriage, and independently so did at least one of my sisters (independently because we never talked about that till years after we had learnt otherwise). Take Walton’s “people fall in love, get married, and have children” and add post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
National party lists.
ROTFL!
Disclaimer: I’ve never read any part of that book.
Of course it rhymes, approximately, with rye instead.
Turkish-and-related saray “palace”. See Sarajevo, “the one [grammatically neuter, so probably “place”] with a palace”.
~:-| Why are you so sure you’ll fail? (Apart from the circular argument that you’re not studying right now.)
Panettone. Italian has the somewhat disturbing property that long consonants can appear pretty much anywhere in a word; they’re not tied to stressed syllables.
*warm hug*
It’s still not freezing except maybe at night, and no trace of snow. It rained several times last week. Grmpf. The warm winters of the 1990s are back.
How are they depicted?
So, a Daoist emperor instead of a Confucian one?
Where do you get “wonderful” from? The naked bodies are just stated as facts. :-| The movie, which I recently watched again, doesn’t imply “look, how wonderful”; the robbers are chased out into the snow by the boss’s wife who has decided that every man and his clothes need to be cleaned right now, and the camera doesn’t bother turning away. That’s all. It did always surprise me that full frontal nudity is shown, but it’s just shown, not celebrated or anything. (And it’s all over in a few seconds.)
*Jadehawk’s totally biodegradable confetti*
Awesome! :-) :-) :-)
Oggie:
Probably for the best, really.
yeah. If I took down my agency’s public server, someone would eventually notice. And I only have 1 1/2 more days of work this calendar year (next Wednesday is my Mondy, Friday and Wednesday all roled into one!) and by the time I got back it would be really bad.
…what.
If Christ was fully human (whether he also was fully divine or not), surely he’d have been detected by a pregnancy test!?!
WTF!?!?!
David M:
We’re just starting to get chilly here– it was 19° F when I was out in Albany last night. Of course, this didn’t stop some lovely young ladies from stumbling from bar to bar in mini-skirts with no coats on.
I wasn’t the only person giving them the WTF face.
And this can’t be good. M*b*s/M*rk*z* is back out and already posting.
…Oh. She wouldn’t have used a pregnancy test if she hadn’t fucked recently.
Or maybe she would have, to see how quickly the Holy Spirit worked His miracle…
Oggie:
Yay for short weeks! (I have a full week ahead of me, but then I’ve got the 26th and 2nd off. Woo!)
I like how someone would “eventually” notice that the servers were destroyed by a spiked bat. I’m guessing that your coworkers/managers aren’t the swiftest cookies in the jar, huh?
Oh, it’s blasphemous all right.
Pregnancy tests detect the presence of human chorionic gonadotropin, a hormone secreted by recently implanted embryos (it keeps the corpus luteum secreting progesterone, which maintains the endometrium in which the embryo has implanted).
Jesus’s embryo, of course, would have secreted divine chorionic gonadotropin instead. Negative test, proving virginity. QED
Our management would not enter into it until the people in DC noticed and tracked it down. I’m up in Scranton, PA (picture the bright and wonderful places on earth. then look elsewhere.)
More controversy over banners, displays and diversity in general. This controversy is centered in Leesburg, close enough to Washington D.C. to garner more attention.
Ah, yeah. Jadehawk blogged about this practice maybe 2 years ago. Minot, ND, probably negative °F.
For the record, weapons-grade stupidity is not sexy. In fact, it’s one of the biggest turnoffs I dare imagine.
Forgot to include link for 364:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-leesburg-holiday-displays-bring-controversy-and-change/2011/12/09/gIQAZFemyO_story.html?hpid=z3
Morning, all.
*sips tea*
Giliell:
Ha. I just noticed that your name is Sindarin. Howdy, Star-Lady.
Yep.
David:
I just don’t understand what the fuck the point is. Those women look like cold assholes and they would look just as cute in a pair of nice jeans and a pair of sexy tall boots (and less like stupid assholes).
1) Jesus would TOTALLY have secreted human chorionic gonadotropin, monophysite heretic.
2) Would Mary’s corpus luteum react to divine chorionic gonadotropin? Do humans have receptors for that? Huh? Huh??
Ex-mormons are discussing the troubling book-burning or book-trashing habits of mormon missionaries and of mormons in general.
Seems books not pro-mormon, books that relate real history, and other troubling tomes that are not faith-promoting are often stolen from public libraries.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,369724
Some mormons have even gone so far as to steal so-called anti-mormon books from used book stores.
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,369724
Belief is not part of religion? On what planet?
David M. @369:
[coffee spluttering funny — time out taken to clean screen]
I wish we could add the debate between David M. and ChasCPeterson (362) to the billboard in question.
With all this learned discussion of Mary’s pregnancy test I think we may be getting perilously close to Sophisticated Theology.
Of course it is blasphemous. The Holy Ghost appeared to Mary in a vision and he told her she was knocked up and even named the father. To think that she would double check against an hallucination is blasphemy. Blasphemy, I tell you.
Uh-oh, an actual attack of a woman in an elevator:
Link.
Well, it is Swedish.
Lovely singing.
No. Might lead to dancing.
Really, really, really, really slow dancing. I mean, slooooooow dancing.
Thank you for the confetti, David M!
Giliell,
French
That was only based on my personal experience. I was terribly afraid that no-one would speak French with me, but they almost all did.
KPD
Oops, thanks. Let me amend my abridged history then
1869-1890: Social Democratic movement starts in Germany, founding of SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany) in 1890-
1919: KPD (Communist Party of Germny) splits off of SPD
after 1945, in the two Germanies:
East: 1946: forcible union of SPD and KPD to form the SED (Socialist Unity Party).
1989: SPD re-founded in the East, SED renames itself SED-PDS (Socialist Unity Party-Party of Democratic Socialism), later the SED part is dropped, so the party name becomes PDS.
West:
1956: KPD outlawed by Constitutional Court
1956-1968: KPD operating illegally
1968: DKP (German Communist Party) founded
Reunited Germany:
Agenda 2010 policy, proposed by SPD-Green government in 2003, sparks protest movement, which then consolidates itself in the form of the WASG in 2004. WASG was first just an association, in 2005 a party of the same is founded.
In 2007, the PDS and WASG merge, ultimately settling on the name Die Linke (The Left)
Like many other conlangers, I revere Tolkien for the fact that he not only invented several languages, but also developed realistic scenarios for how the classical language might have developed into the vernaculars (and I say that despite knowing what his real life profession was). This is something I was never able to do in a good way…
Damn, I have a cold, *sneeze, cough*
And speaking of Iron and Wine, there’s Calexico, alternative country/Americana, a complicated and interesting sound with a lot of south-of-the-border influence:
Two Silver Trees
roka
Calexico recorded seven songs together with Iron and Wine “in the Reins” but I don’t like their joint work as much as I like Calexico’s independent work.
Qapla’!
though I said to the guy at the Louvre
“Excusez-moi monsieur, je cherche le portrait de Louis XIV”
and his answer got over my head, though I understood the general direction. If you know where the portrait is, it is in a corner room, but the corner in question is divided into two, “an inner corner” and an “outer corner”, hope that makes any sense? So I kept going around in circles through the wrong corner room.
That portrait was the only famous painting I wanted to see that was NOT in the “famous paintings wing”, so that’s why I was looking for it.
I know it is a few days early, but I have so much to do before I go to Florida, and I will be very busy in Florida, so:
Head pööripäeva!
Шчаслівыя сонцастаяння!
Gelukkig zonnewende!
Til hamingju með Sólstöður!
Laimīgu saulgrieži!
To all. Enjoy dancing naked in the backyard. Just keep the sparklers far enough away . . . .
I agree, pelamun. For the record, Tolkien was a university professor. Anglo-Saxon language.
Tolkien accounted for Language Busybodies, even. That is, there are people who show up and assert, “hwesta sounds funny. Let’s change it to chwesta! Who cares if it was originally an onomatopoeia!” (hwesta means “breeze/wind” in Quenya).
In addition to being damn funny, this kind of shit actually happens with real languages.
You can actually study the langagues. There’s enough of a vocabulary, clues as to how to construct words, and grammar to make this viable. If you read the texts, you find things like, “X is an irregular verb. It used to be regular, but it was changed to have the ending Y at the insistence of Fëanor” all the damn time. Fëanor decided that the language needed to be “fixed.” He was also a raging jerk who set off a genocide. Part of me wonders if Tolkien was making a Point™ with this.
Hokay, I had at least some dinner, which is important, since I have a talent for fainting.
Whatever they told you in “Gone with the Wind”, sinking unconsciously into the arms of a man is not romantic, it is scary.
Esteleth, Woman of Hope
You got it almost. Star-Lady would be Giliel, with one L like Galadriel, Two L is star-daughter.
I listen to Giliell IRL…
I believe in going to the doc tomorrow and getting antibiotics.
pelamun
I didn’t want to reply to it at the time, but in the “Vile Islam” thread you brought up the statistics from the Verfassungsschutz.
I would take them with a lot of salt, especially about right wing extremists.
Those numbers have been kept down for political reasons, weil nicht sein kann was nicht sein darf.
Remember the young man I told about some months ago (I don’t know if you’d been writing on TET by then already), where the son of my sister’s colleague was attacked, severely wounded and had a Swatiska cut into his chest?
Police simply dropped the case, told him to do so to and it has not made its way into the official statistics.
With the whole NSU thing coming to light, the young man was triggered in such a way that his parents had to go to his flat and collect him, because he couldn’t even leave it alone anymore.
And now they are finding that the terrible fire in Ludwigshafen that killed 9 people and where, although they could never tell exactly what had happen, they could be 100% sure that there was no xenophobic background, there probably was a right-wing perpetrator.
Esteleth,
many years ago I already got a book that tried to present everything that is known about his languages… It’s unfortunate that he didn’t compile a dictionary..
I also read somewhere that he invented his languages first, and then created Middle Earth merely to have some kind of cultural background for his languages. Don’t know if this is conlanging apocrypha or not, but I like the thought.
Giliell,
most def. I also think that the Verfassungschutz was blind on the right eye, as they say (as a leftist, I also think that the VS is prone to inflate left-wing terrorism figures, but I didn’t have the research to back it up, so I just linked to the VS report). But it’s a starting point if people demand statistics. I’m still waiting for the dust to settle how widespread this NSU thing was, if it really was a brown RAF.
They need to streamline their bureaucratic structure, 17-20 agencies not sharing data properly is just a recipe for disaster. If there really is a RAF like terrorist network in operation, they need to find out why they missed that and devote manpower to this threat (but not forgetting Islamist networks). Besides, on the ‘normal policing level’ they need to take cases like that described by you much more seriously, but also civil society needs to speak out more.
Sheesh, what do you think the Immaculate Conception was for? Mary was not only conceived without sin so as to be worthy to gestate Jesus, she also had her biology tweaked so as to be able to receive divine hormones. Therefore, she would have had the receptors.
Quod erat demonstrandum, cum sancto spiritu.
An omnipotent Being is somehow magically fertilizing her ovum already–how much extra trouble to tweak a membrane-surface protein a little bit?
I had to look up ‘monophysite’ but I laffed when I did.
You know, I’m not aware of any evidence that Jesus was genetically related to Mary at all. She bore him (and may well have bored him), but it could have been a surrogate thing.
Oh, for Germans there even is a study book with exercises for learning Sindarin and Quenya.
Pelamun,
AFAIK, he did invent the languages first. Or rather, he developed the idea of the languages (sounds, basic structure, a few words) then the people that spoke them, which led to more words (for place-names, people, concepts, etc), which led to the story of the people, which led to more words, etc.
I read an essay that charted the progress of a single sentence, Eala Earendel engla beorhtast, which was scribbled into his journal sometime around 1917 when he was in France during WWI. This means “Hail Earendel, brightest of angels” in Old English and has some context, but mostly just sounds kinda neat. It was eventually published in Lord of the Rings as Aiya Eärendil elenion ancalima! Frodo says this in Shelob’s lair, and it means “Hail Eärendil, brightest of stars” in Quenya. Oh, and Eärendil is now a person with a story and this actually makes sense in context – the little light that Galadriel (“Maiden Crowned with the Glorious Garland”) gave Frodo in Lórien is a refraction of the light of Eärendil, which is what the Elves call Venus. Eärendil shows up in The Silmarillion, where he, on behalf of all of Middle-Earth, sails to Valinor to plead to the Valar (the gods). He is also the father of Elrond (yes, that Elrond) and Galadriel’s cousin. So: single sentence –> sketch of story of Earendel/Eärendil –> language edits –> more story –> more language edits –> seemingly unrelated story –> something Frodo says.
That reminds me… Tolkien fans might like this.
http://jlutes.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/tolkien.jpg
I see that the phrase is a bit longer: Éala, Éarendel, engla beorhtast, ofer middangeard monnum sended
Owlmirror,
Thanks for that. The phrase does keep going, which adds a bit to the Eärendil story.
If Mary didn’t do anything but bear Jesus, then why was it necessary to destroy the evidence by assumpting her body and soul into Heaven? That only makes sense in a scenario where recovering Marian DNA would let us clone Jesus.
There are a lot of those instances.
Tolkien himself wrote that a lot of things in LoTR reflect earlier stories and histories, like when Gimli sings of Khazad-dûm, and mentions not only Durin, but also Nargothrond and Gondlin (don’t ask Giliell about Gondolin, she hates it).
And since we’re talking Tolkien, here’s one of my most favourite poems ever.
Not for its brilliance, but for its simple beauty:
You and me and the Cottage of Lost Play
You and me – we know this land
And often have been there
In the long old days, old nursery days,
A dark child and a fair.
Full one can be read here (Would spam the thread)
And “Kortirion among the Trees” was the thing that helped me learn the English tree-names
though 10 years ago I made a decision to focus more on living, natural languages, what with the majority of the 6000-8000 natural languages in danger of becoming extinct.
I had a professor at the time exhorting me “not to waste time with dead languages (constructed implied), you can still study those in 100 years’ time”, and she had a point there I think. (She was saying this as someone with 5-6 extinct languages under her belt)
“The mating habits of Treefolk, particularly the stalwart Ironroot Treefolk, are truly absurd. Molasses comes to mind. It’s amazing the species can survive at all given such protracted periods of mate selection, conjugation, and gestation.”
From Xblog
Ok this pisses me off a lot. I’m not upset that he didn’t get everything I wanted him to do done. I’m upset that he actively works towards things that are awful. It would be better if he got less of that done. The Republican Fillibuster isn’t forcing him to take a stance for indefinite detention and torture.
I remember reading a while back that with every pregnancy, a small number of fetal cells do manage to travel into the mother, and just hang around, avoiding the immune system. Your mother’s body will contain your fetal cells and those of your siblings.
So it might have been possible to clone Jesus entirely from a small remnant cell of him in Mary’s body, not just the half of her DNA that Jesus had.
Ok, I think I need one of these. Might be a lot of fun during department meetings. :)
I fully expected to find an oblivion inducing injury at that link.
I have a lot of candle butts around. Does anyone know how to cast new candles – easily?
Oh, I’ve heard of that one, though I’ve never read the books. It sounds a lot like Hornblower set in space. Only with a female protagonist.
(I’m not always keen on military SF. But some of it I like. And hereditary monarchy in SF seems to arise fairly regularly, although less so than in fantasy: I quite liked Barrayar in the Vorkosigan Saga, although I’ve only read The Warrior’s Apprentice and never got around to reading the rest of the series.)
Damn. That sentence would have made a little more sense if I’d rearranged the word order (the Vorkosigan Saga being, of course, SF, not fantasy). My brain is melting.
Anyway… monarchy. There’s a reason why people like stories with kings, princes, princesses, chancellors and lords. Something in it appeals to our deepest nature, I suppose.
Ah so you can’t complain that Obama isn’t perfect unless you yourself are perfect.
FFS
Hey all, I’m going to read back a ways, but I haven’t been around (much) for about a week & I just wanted to say I’m alive & thank all the people who put up such a good fight against the nonsense of bevwoodward and others in the rape thread (I’m not saying rape isn’t a bad thing, I’m just saying that sex without consent isn’t a bad thing unless such sex without consent is inflicted by a stranger leaping out of the bushes to attack a non-trans, sober nun in full habit who breaks both her arms defending against the crowbar wielded by her attacker AND screams loud enough to be picked up on microphones several blocks away but not loud enough to get help to her before penetration can be completed).
Ms Crush has consumed a lot of my time – a ton of my time – and work has been steady. With my evenings being spent on long phone calls (typically 4+ hours: I love unlimited long distance) there hasn’t been the same time to keep up with threads here & make intelligent contributions.
Of course… On the plus side, while Ms. Crush is depriving you all of my patently ingenious contributions, she is, at least, providing me many deliriously happy moments.
I’m not (quite) smitten enough to assume that what we have will automatically translate into some long-term, physically co-located relationship, but as was said when I brought this up to y’all a few weeks ago: the internet IS real life.
I was reading the thread about atheist tropes and we were talking about love and how theists insist we believe in it without evidence while most of us here assert that, no, we have quite a bit of evidence for love (with the lovely addition of the Minchin quote: “Love without evidence is stalking”). I have been thinking quite a bit about the evidences of love the last few weeks. What makes me okay with the speedy rate at which whatever Ms Crush and I have is developing (before we were comfortable with the word relationship, we started calling it, “This,” which newborn tradition we have continued) is that there is plenty of evidence for our This. How often we choose to call each other or write, what we say, what we are reluctant to share and what we are eager to share. There is a mountain of data that makes up the evidence for her feelings for me and mine for her. We’ve gone over the other side of the mountain and, though I’m still in a crush, I call it love (the two states: crush and love, though rarely co-occuring are not mutually incompatible).
And it is only the more beautiful because it is a skeptical love: we are taking nothing for granted, as scary as it can be to not lie to ourselves that we are “fated” or that our “This” is permanent, I can be certain that being loved isn’t self-deception. I stand on the side of skeptical, evidence-based love. Who would want love any other way?
Silli
or you could simply get one of these. You throw your old candles into them and burn them, preferrably outdoors
Kia ora horde. I rarely delurk (I hate commenting from my phone, my only source of net access), but as my googling has failed me I thought I’d ask you knowledgeable lot… Does anyone know anything about chronic appendicitis? Two days ago I presented at the hospital with all the signs of appendicitis – severe lower right abdominal pain that began around my navel & later shifted to the lower right, nausea, raised white blood cell count, & a low-grade fever. And then after 6 hours, it all went away, leaving me with nothing but very sore tenderness in the area where my appendix is located. So they sent me home, and two days later I’m still just as tender in that area. Both mum and the mother-in-law immediately said “rumbling appendix”, and from the little info I gleaned off the net I think it could be (but IANAD). I don’t want to waste money on a visit to the doctor, but am rather concerned. Any info about whether what I’m experiencing could be chronic appendicitis (such as when I could expect another bout of pain if it is CA) would be greatly appreciated :)
Sili:
If you have something that can be used as a tall thin freestanding mold (bamboo comes to mind) it’s just a matter of tying your wick around a toothpick to hang it right down the center, melting the wax, and carefully pouring it in. If your molds are watertight and don’t float, maybe stand them in cold water to make it solidify faster.
might also help if your molds are ‘disposable’. You might have to cut or split them to get them to separate from the candle. Again, bamboo comes to mind.
David,
Please explain, especially what’s so odd about it. Also, if Japan counts, why not Germany or Austria? If you mean that prior to the American occupation, there was no democracy in Japan, then I suggest reading up on Japanese history, especially on what is known as “Taishō Democracy”.
Home sick from work – some kind of stomach thing – and am listening to the audiobook version of God is Not Great, read by Hitchens himself; I am, of course, enjoying it immensely. I’m finding myself giggling a lot at the (dry) witticisms and thorough putdowns of religious stupidity.
Am a bit embarrassed to admit that it took his death to prompt me to finally get around to it, but I suppose it’s better late than never.
Dominance hierarchies?
As long as there’s an alpha male — or in a pinch, an alpha female — in charge, everything is working as it should.
======
Experts on the Problem of Evil were known as theologians. These were very erudite primates, skilled in primate logic, who wrote long books trying to answer the question “Why did God create an imperfect universe?”
“God” was their name for the hypothetical biggest-alpha-male-of-all. Being primates, they could not comprehend how anything could run if there weren’t an alpha male in charge of it.
— Robert Anton Wilson
melissaf:
I’ve never had appendicitis*, but if I was in your boat, I’d make an appointment with my doctor as soon as possible– tenderness like that is never a good sign.
*I’ve had a variety of other abdominal problems– ovarian cysts (which can have symptoms a lot like appendicitis), gall stones, fun stuff like that.
Nectocaris was a squid relative.
Thanks TLC, but bamboo isn’t exactly common around here (at least not in such a size).
I think I’ll try something like Gilliel’s idea. Thanks!
it just occured to me one could use lengths of metal pipe, and free the candles by lightly heating the outside after the wax has solidified.
(Those things Giliell linked to are awesome. I’m just thinking out loud now in type form, since it’s something I’d like to play around with myself)
Thanks Audley :) You have my sympathies re your own past abdominal issues – most definitely not fun. The doctor did mention possible ovarian torsion, which apparently is rather serious too. I have no idea why they sent me home :s Ah well, suppose I better suck it up & go in to the doctor. I just don’t want to pay $50 NZD to be told they don’t know, won’t do tests, come back in if the tenderness turns into acute pain
@Sili, Googling “make your own candles from butts” gets me this at #2:
http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/better-homes-gardens/article/-/5824251/make-your-own-candles/
(You should just be able to rip out the wicks or something.)
Link #3 is something else entirely.
Stop being so cynical. :-p Monarchy is so much more… magical than that.
melissaf:
Gah! If it comes down to that, I’ll fly to NZ and smack a doctor or two on your behalf.
Ethan Siegal on Rorschach masks
Here’s a video of one in action.
Heh, aww, thanks Audley :) The earliest appointment I can get is in two days time *growls with frustration* If I’m not already in the hospital by then thanks to more wonderful pain, I’ll let you know if smacking is required for the good doctor to be helpful :D
melissaf @411
Sorry about your whatever-it-is. I had something a year ago that looked exactly like appendicitis until the CT scan, which showed that my terminal ileum had decided to be inflamed for no readily apparent reason. They sent me home with antacids. I never found out what it was, and I was still pretty sore for a couple of days. But after a week I was fine, and it’s never come back.
Hope you feel better soon. I second the recommendation to see a doctor again.
Melt the wax in a double boiler or crock pot (you can even use one of the plastic liners for either to help in clean up). Use a tall, narrow can (I once used three of the small tomato paste cans (one with the bottom, the other two made into tubes) taped together with lots and lots and lots of tape (not to worry if there are leaks, just have it in a post of hot water and any leaking wax will stay on top of the water (and if you wrap enough tap around it, the leaks will be minimal))), fill it with the molten wax, and dip long wicks into it, adding more wax as needed, until the candles are the right size and/or you have used up your wax.
Another possiblity is those wide plastic cups that are about 2 inches tall and four inches wide. With one or two wicks, it’ll work. And you can even vary the colours within each.
I don’t remember about Austria off the top of my head, but Germany did have a fairly long tradition of democracy at various levels (even in the Second Reich, the Reichstag was moderately democratic and had at least a little bit of power). At the very least, more of a tradition than Japan.
Brother O,
The Meiji Constitution, promulgated in 1890, was modeled after that of the Second Reich.
Only when done by elephants.
Put a pachyderm (a real one, not just one that mimics the ears and nose) on the throne of England, and I too will support the monarchy.
Thanks Nutmeg. Wow you got a CT scan? Very thorough. All I got were some pokes and prods & a large number of morphine injections. Although I won’t deny that I probably appreciated the morphine more than I would’ve a CT scan at that point :p Fingers crossed I have the same sort of thing you had, and it won’t come back. But yes, off to the doctor for me.
Monarchy is magic.
Looking for a pretend priest so that the entrails can be ripped out and used to hang the magic monarch.
The Freedom and Rights Movement (自由民権運動 Jiyū Minken Undō) was started by people such as Itagaki Taisuke, who had founded the Freedom Party (自由党) in 1881. They were able to realise their goal of constitutional monarchy in 1890, and then work towards more democratic freedoms, which culminated in the Taishō Democracy Era.
Oh, Newt. The Liberal Curmudgeon (who combines my two favorite belief systems), unloads:
http://budiansky.blogspot.com/2011/12/you-can-be-historian-too.html
No, the monarch has to be on the throne as well, otherwise it does us no good to put the pachyderm on it.
janine:
Damn, you are awesome. :)
pelamun: It’s not my sphere of expertise, but if I remember rightly, the Reichstag of the German Empire was fairly democratic for its time, with universal suffrage for men over twenty-five? (While the upper house, the Reichsrat, was controlled by hereditary princely families, much like the British House of Lords.) But as I understand it, it was different from the British “Westminster system” in that the executive government was accountable exclusively to the Emperor, not to the legislature, and the Chancellor was almost always also Prime Minister of Prussia. (Which had its own separate parliament, with a House of Representatives and a House of Lords, modelled on the British system.) And the government, like that of Britain in the same era, was dominated by the hereditary aristocracy, with almost every government minister being a Graf or Freiherr or something similar.
(I should stop geeking out about historical constitutions, though, and try to prepare for my exam tomorrow. But I’m so sleeeepy. And I know nothing and am going to fail. But anyway.)
Not much. What happens (…as I just mentioned on another blog maybe 3 hours ago, LOL…) is that onomatopoietic words can cease to be such by regular sound change. The Proto-Indo-European ancestor of “wind” started with something similar to [hw], so it probably was onomatopoietic, but [w] doesn’t sound like blowing wind much, and [v] (found in that word in most Indo-European languages today) most certainly doesn’t.
To make that happen, you need a very strong state or an even stronger religion/ideology that can actually control how people talk. That’s an extremely rare occurrence for spoken languages.
More or less purely written languages, like Classical Sanskrit, are more susceptible to such conscious planning.
(Fixed phrase: “because that which mustn’t be cannot be”.)
I think you’re forgetting the “wholly human” part again, monophysite heretic. :-) Admittedly, that’s the only “evidence” I can think of.
“Sent over Middleyard [Miðgarð, and I suppose Middle-Earth] to”… to whom? That’s a dative plural, right? “To men”???
Sili wins.
Seriously, Sili, you’re smarter than I. You just proved it.
Drat! As I should have expected, Owlmirror pwns us both!
That thing about fetal cells turning loose in the mother is true, BTW.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
The (close to) one-party system where almost all changes happen within the Liberal Democratic Party.
Ah. I will.
PZ blogged about this when it was new in May 2010; meanwhile, a lot of doubt about it has returned.
Wonderful.
=8-)
I think my preferred system would be somewhere between modern-day Monaco and modern-day Liechtenstein*: a constitutional monarchy in which the monarch’s power is limited and balanced by an elected parliament and a bill of rights, but in which the monarch holds real executive powers which xe exercises in hir own discretion, and has an actual veto over legislation and the like. So, not an absolute monarchy, but not a purely-ceremonial figurehead monarchy either. The monarch would be the real leader of the country, but hir power would be limited by the constitution and by the need for compromise with the legislature.
(*Though without the established Catholic Church privileges that exist in both countries, obviously.)
This sounds familiar from one or two years ago. So…
1) Drink (while preparing for the exam).
2) Eat (while still preparing for the exam).
3) If you’re still sleepy then, sleep. I know it’s only 8 pm where you are; ignore that. Wake up tomorrow morning and finish studying then. By no means take the exam when you’re too tired to remember stuff.
have a too powerful monarch, just like the POTUS is too powerful for my taste.
But don’t reply to this now. Drink, eat, sleep. :-)
Newt is as knowledgeable of the US Constitution as he is of history. But I am sure he knows what he says is bullshit. He is delivering these nuggets to people who think that David Barton is a historian.
In cleaning my desktop of random files-n-stuff, it became imperative that I do something like this:
⍼⎶⎈⏏
In other news, what I remembered as a Glenfiddich Solera Reserve is actually a Glenlivet Nadura.
Yes, I will burn some before drinking. Yes, because I can.
But before that, popcorn and Boylan’s Birch Beer!
Ing whines,
That’s nowhere close to demanding perfection, Ing. That’s the absolute minimum of responsible participation in electoral politics.
walton,
yes. After the Meiji restoration, Japanese scholars were sent out to the West to study constitutional systems, military organisation, sciences etc.
There was a faction that wanted a Westminster style democracy, but that was rejected as granting parliament too much power. (To this day there are politicians wanting to introduce a Westminster system in Japan, though today for different reasons than in the 1880s. The former PM Kan Naoto led a delegation to the UK a couple of years ago to study the modern Westminster system.)
Though since Japan wasn’t a federation like the Second Reich, they did end up copying the House of Lords as the second chamber.
The Meiji constitution gave all men over 15 who had paid more than 15 yen in taxes the right to vote (this was modeled after the Prussian system), and the abolition of the tax requirements was one of the major demands of the aforementioned liberal movement. This happened in stages:
– 1900: decreased to 10 Yen
– 1919: decreased to 3 Yen (~80% of males over 25)
– 1925: abolition
unfortunately, the Mukden Incident of 1931 marked the beginning of militarism in Japan.. (the era of course ended in 1926 with the death of the Taishō Emperor).
Since Walton must study, I won’t take the bait this time about seemingly perfect monarchist constitutions (Liechtenstein, bah), but instead will “throw” him a monarchist tidbit:
Did you know that for a 1000 years, Japanese emperors and crown princes only married wives from the five families of the Fujiwara clan, because the Empress should be be able to claim divine descent as well? The Fujiwara had held political power during the Heian era, but then fell out of power just like the Imperial family, to which they were closely related.
The Shōwa Emperor was the first to violate this rule in modern times. His wife was a mere daimyo’s daughter.
And no crown prince has married a noblewoman since.
Just a quick response, and then I’ll go take a shower and rest…
I think that depends on the details of the constitution. In relation to domestic affairs, prime ministers in Westminster parliamentary systems, assuming that the governing party has a large majority in legislature and can push its legislative agenda through, are often markedly more powerful than the POTUS, who constantly has to compromise with an often-hostile Congress. (This is probably less true of prime ministers in European countries with proportional electoral systems and permanent coalition, admittedly.)
The POTUS does have far, far, far too much untrammelled power in relation to foreign affairs and the military, but that’s a result of two constitutional problems. One is that the Constitution gives the POTUS vastly excessive powers in those areas: his role as Commander-in-Chief lets him do basically whatever he wants with the military, including deploying troops overseas without a Congressional declaration of war. The other is that the federal courts show reflexive deference to the executive whenever questions of military and foreign policy are involved, owing to the “political question doctrine” and the like, and (wrongly, IMO) believe that the separation of powers requires them to defer to the President’s judgment on those issues. (Interestingly, this is much less true in Israel, the only other sort-of-democratic country that’s constantly at war; the Israeli Supreme Court has been very proactive in reviewing the legality of executive military decisions for compliance with national and international law, although its conclusions aren’t usually particularly liberal. But I digress.)
So in my hypothetical constitution, I’d avoid this issue with a combination of provisions. The monarch would be head of the executive and would have traditional executive powers, including power over foreign relations and the military, but there would be an explicit constitutional ban on deploying troops or engaging in any kind of military action without approval of the legislature. In addition, the UN Charter, the ICCPR and other fundamental international treaties would be integrated into domestic law and directly enforceable in the domestic courts (as they are in some European countries), so, among other things, military action that breached international law (i.e. that was not either self-defence or a multilateral peacekeeping effort authorized by the Security Council) would be unconstitutional under domestic constitutional law. I’d probably also add an express constitutional commitment to peace and neutrality in international conflicts, as is found in some neutral countries’ constitutions. The monarch’s power in domestic affairs would also, of course, be limited by the legislature: as in most countries, passing primary legislation, levying taxes and approving the government budget would require the consent of the legislature. And then there would be an independent judiciary with life tenure, which would be able to review the monarch’s actions for compliance both with the constitution and with international treaties, which, as per above, would be directly enforceable in domestic law.
This looks to me like a simplistic view of post-war Japanese history.
There was a chaotic period from 1945-1955, where a number of coalitions ruled Japan in quick succession. The LDP was the result of a consolidation of conservative and liberal parties. This never changed, the LDP never had a unified political platform, it was always an agglomeration of different political factions.
There were always vibrant oppositions parties such as the Socialists, and the Communists, that made their voices heard within the system.
In 1993, where the LDP fell from power, and even though it entered government again in 1994, it never held power alone again, except for a brief period in 1998.
I can find examples in many other countries where one party or one coalition nominally held power for long periods of time:
– the iron grip of the Democratic power on the US Congress (1954-1995)
– the Grand Coalition in Austria (1945-1966, 1987-2000, 2007-)
– the magic formula eternal coalition in Switzerland
so why would just Japan be “odd”, and those other three not?
Orff’s Trionfi makes Jayne howl. Metallica doesn’t.
oh and not to forget the epochal change of power that occurred in 2009, sweeping the Democratic Party to power, with a coalition of Social Democrats and New People’s Party.
Even though the DPJ hasn’t been all that great, it’s far from certain that the LDP will be able to get back to power, the electorate is fed up with them. A number of new parties are proliferating right now, these are exciting times in Japanese politics.
Also, universal suffrage to all citizens 20 years and older only came in 1945, thanks to the American-dictated constitution.
Try Lulu. I dare you. I double dog dare you!
If that does not work, move on to Metal Machine Music.
Have you played The Ballad Of Jayne for it’s namesake?
The passage I quoted from continues:
======
They assumed the universe was imperfect because it was obviously not set up for the convenience of domesticated primates.
The universe was not even designed for the convenience and comfort of the six-legged majority on Terra. The convenience and comfort of planetside species has very little to do with the cosmic drama.
A few of the primates had realized this. They were known as cynics.
======
Which I think amusing regardless of whether or not Walton used the term in awareness of the text.
For some reason, these songs were bouncing around in my head.
At times, I do not like being in my head.
I live in a split level head.
@217
Regarding orcs and Mordor –
yes, northwestern Mordor is a bleak, bleak place with little water. However, it was occasionally washed by floods and/or winds which sent the ill-secured soil rushing off the plateau of Gorgoroth down onto the plains of Nurn, where the volcanic soil and good water led to plenty. They even had their own great lake (about lake Michigan-sized, IIRC, tho’ it may have been bigger…) which was apparently highly productive in food terms. Now, the Nazgul vale had bad water which tended to kill those who drank from it, but the reasons for this poisonous property were not clear and were in several instances clearly indicated to be magical. Now whether the *cause* of the poison was magical or whether the *poison itself* is magical was, AFAIK, not made clear. But the important point is that except for the most NW portion of the already NWern part of of Mordor was truly inhospitable to life. Even significant portions of Gorgoroth could support some life.
I tend to think of a good RL analog as Dallol AKA the Danakil depression in the Great Rift Valley = Udun + Orodruin’s immediate surroundings, while Dankalia/ Danakalia = greater Gorgoroth… this would make the Awash river drainage basin = to the plains of Nurn, although it would be even a better parallel if the elevations and the direction of water flow were reversed so that the Dallol was a highland waste and not a lowland waste and the moist highland lake source of the Awash was a lowland basin receiving the river.
But in any case, the orcs were hard put, but not because the Morgal Vale, Udun and greater Orodruin couldn’t support life (tho’ they couldn’t), but because of the political leadership. Tolkien is very explicit that the orcs were tortured into being. These were “fallen elves” that were mercilessly twisted through both foul use and foul magics, with the magic ensuring that the desired orkish characteristics were heritable (and inherited).
I have much pity for the orcs and always remember when I role play that the vast majority of orcs were, in fact, fishers and farmers of the Nurn. Mordor very specifically “gathered them to war” and “armed them”. These would not be necessary if the orcs were constantly violent.
Now it should be said that the orcs were racist and cared little for the harm done to others. Thus, when orc-lands and the lands of others were adjoining, they would freely raid if they thought they could get away with it and derive profit in the raiding. But this was built into them by evil magics and also generally didn’t apply to stable populations of orcs relating to each other. Orc didn’t raid orc if all the orcs were of one “race” of orcs with a stable local power structure. Otherwise they would kill themselves and wouldn’t be able to reproduce in ways that were useful to the evil powers of Middle Earth.
Thus the violence of the Orc is much exaggerated. And, unfortunately, your sympathy for the orc, while well placed, would benefit neither you nor the orcs if it led you to provide food to them. Mordor’s north imported it from Mordor’s south, and elsewhere the orcs lived very much like humans, though with a greater emphasis on eating meat, and thus hunting and animal husbandry than traditional farming.
In my role playing game worlds, the orcs have developed very different farming practices from other races because they depend so much on meat protein. In most fields there is no monocrop, but rather a carefully selected group of crops that repel insects and provide nutritious growth at different times of the year. This is a highly cultivated browse that allows for maximum growth of the herd animals they like to eat. Hircines are the main food, though ovines and bovines also figure in the food supply. In temperate climes they tend to slaughter, smoke and salt most of the males during the time coinciding with humans’ harvesting of fall crops so that they are only feeding those animals that they intend to keep alive through the full winter. Porcines are hunted rather than farmed, and thus wild boars are encouraged to live wooded lands not used for farming. The orcs with good water supplies make strong shallow-water sailors, but their tendency towards immediate gratification makes them unlikely to engage in deep-water fishing that requires more than 16 hours in a boat. As such, they have few ships per se, instead relying on craft that have no sleeping spaces. When living along major waterways, they sometimes have barges that include sleeping spaces so that the barge can travel 24 hours/day, but they are more likely to simply trade with passing humans (again, the immediate gratification) than bring goods to market themselves.
of course, traveling a major waterway that borders (or passes through) orc lands can be dangerous for non-orcs. The orcs show enlightened self interest in not attacking often enough, predictably enough, or sufficiently high-profile targets. They do, however, occasionally send out small craft near a narrows to overwhelm a barge or two, slaughter those aboard (no witnesses to finger them) and take whatever is on board. This is most likely to happen, however, when orcs experience food shortage.
Remember: it is not in the nature of selfish people to attack others frequently. Selfishness means valuing oneself and engaging in violence risks harm to oneself. Thus only when another threat (starvation, for instance, but also need for tribute to pay to powerful enemies to avoid a disadvantageous conflict and similar predicaments) is present will orcs attack…and then only at a time and in a manner as to minimize risk to the orcs doing the attacking.
Thus large numbers of orcs in surprise attacks on small prey. Because of this, there is also not much loot to be had. Save for the deaths of loved ones who pass along or through orc territory, living near orcs has little cost for a society.
However, living near **Sauron** has great costs for a society – not least orc society.
But imagine what it would be like if Sauron had to abide in a constitutional monarchy. Why, it would be magical!
The Constitution itself gives him no such powers. Various laws (and interpretations thereof) since are what have allowed the POTUS to do it, but it can be argued that these are not Constitutional. In any case, even with the broken system we have, the POTUS will not be able to conduct any old military action he or she wishes without legislative approval. If the Congress does not appropriate funds for it, then the extent of the POTUS’ powers as Commander-in-Chief is fairly limited. In reality Congress does appropriate the funds, but is not willing to admit it iseffectively “declaring war” by throwing boatloads of money at the Defense department.
That sounds a bit like this:
Except it doesn’t reference any beings with magical blood who inherently don’t want power like normal people.
Wow, bunch of Hitchens bashing on the menu at CPP.
Sure, yes. I should have clarified that I was referring to that provision as interpreted, in practice, by the federal courts and by actual executive practice. I agree with you that what has happened in practice is likely far removed from the intention of the framers. Of course, in the eighteenth century no one could reasonably have envisioned the bloated military establishment that exists today.
(There are, of course, many more of these grey areas. Like the practice, favoured by Nixon, of entering into “executive agreements” – which can be binding treaties under international law, but are not regarded as “treaties” for the purposes of US constitutional law and hence don’t require ratification by the Senate.)
Free Of Hope-Vic Chesnutt
Crazy Mary-Victoria Williams
Red’s Song-The Jayhawks
Waiting For The Sun-The Jayhawks
Janine:
Of course! Actually, that had a lot to do with his name change. I was watching Firefly one night, shot a sour look at Jayne (then Matoska) and said “I should have named you Jayne.” He came over and sat by me, being perfectly behaved for a change.
Every time we’ve watched Jaynestown, he’s sat up when the ballad starts and wags his tail like crazy. He has a lot in common with Jayne – he’s huge, can easily be menacing and is seriously dumber than a bag of hair.
Walton, get off of the web now.
Does he have a gun named Vera and wears a seriously goofy hat? And can he be bought off?
That scene where Mal and Zoey buys Jayne away from the gang is one of my very favorites from that show.
Janine:
He’s not allowed guns, his favourite toy is named Vera and he has been seen in a goofy hat. He can easily be bought off, for serious cheap…we’re talkin’ a biscuit here.
After I asserted that Nurnen was approximately the same size as Lake Michigan, I got curious as to how accurate a comparison that was.
Turns out Lake Michigan is substantially larger that Nurnen would be if Nurnen, y’know, existed.
There’s no good Great Lake comparison. Lake Ontario is closest, but Ontario is longer and narrower. Nonetheless, Ontario is probably larger in surface area. Nurnen is described as particularly deep by Tolkien and Ontario has an average depth of 83m, max depth of 244m. This is not super-deep as large lakes go.
Not that all this matters, but I asserted something above that turns out to be massively wrong.
If you look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_lakes
there isn’t a great parallel, but I imagine that if you multiplied lake Malawi’s width by 2.5 and divided its length by 2.5 you’d have something like Nurnen, with total surface area being a relatively good match for the maps given by Tolkien and the depth (706m, max) being a better match for my subjective idea of a “deep” “sea” (Tolkien used the word sea and the concept of “inland sea” to describe Nurnen which is part of what makes merely a moderately deep lake like Ontario seem an insufficient analog for the water volume of Nurnen).
Given the number of people that Malawi (the lake, not the country) supports, it’s hard to imagine orcs having a food supply whose constraints are natural rather than technological, social, or political.
Me-Jane
Like I need an excuse to link to some PJ Harvey.
KIM JONG IL is dead,
says Yonhap…
This Is Pop-XTC
Are You Receiving Me?-XTC
Life Begins At The Hop-XTC
Sgt. Rock (Is Going To Help Me)-XTC
Kim Jong Il. Dead.
But he lives on the the hearts of the people of glorious North Korea.
I see that I am slow.
This was inevitable.
Anyone know what happens to the North Korean government now that he’s dead?
Janine:
Let’s face it, fuck all is going to change with Kim Jung-Il’s death and Kim Jung-Un’s ascension to power. He’ll live on because no one’s life in North Korea is going to get any better.
(Would it be distasteful of me to mention that this is an excellent argument against hereditary monarchies?)
The Batshit Crazy Dictator is Dead!
Long Live the Batshit Crazy Dictator!
(I wonder if the hair will transfer to the new BCD?)
Not at all!
Starstuff:
His son Kim Jung-Un takes power.
StarStuff,
I don’t think that his son has had opportunity to consolidate enough power.
There’s an Old Guard, but Kim Jong-Il had been said to be trying to rein them in.
Both North Korea and South Korea hope that the regime won’t just collapse.
Here’s some background, apologies for it being form the Daily Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8022800/Power-struggle-rages-in-North-Korean-regime.html
Audley, I could be mistaken but has North Korea ever stated that Kim-Il Sung was dead?
Janine:
Awesome!
(Waiting to see if Walton actually went to bed and if not, what justification he has for supporting monarchies in this situation.)
Do not disturb the Walton, the Walton has schoolwork the Walton should take care of. Give the Walton a few days.
Yeah there is also Syria’s Assad. Also working out very well….. hm..
Isn’t Kim Il-Sung still the Eternal President or something?
(looks up Wiki…
ah yes,
공화국의 영원한 주석
The Eternal Chairman of the Republic
is Kim Il-Sung’s official title now
I guess my question is answered. Thank you, pelamun.
*snortle!gargle!cough!wheeze!*
No, it’s okay. Really. Diet Coke is exceptionally good at flushing the sinuses.
*coughcoughwheeze*
–
Or put it up on another billboard just slightly further down the road.
(There’s a joke just begging to be made about the “accidents” of the Divine Pregnancy.)
–
And we could include Owlmirror’s 391, too.
:D
–
And it comes in two magical flavors; 1) clerical magic, passed down from On High in the Divine Rite of Kings, and 2) sorcerous magic, which gives us Enchantress Queens and Sorcerer Kings. (I suppose that royalty of a demi-human race could multi-class, Cleric/Magic-User-wise; but I digress.) They pull from entirely different spell lists, and only the clerically-crowned are allowed to have a decent attack matrix. More hit points, too. On the other hand, when the sorcery-based get levelled up past 4th level, and that first Fireball spell comes on-line, it’s all over but the sweeping up.
–
@janine
Kim Il Sung is North Korea’s president for eternity. Even though he is dead. Yeah…
janine,
if we wanted to be pedantic:
they acknowledged his death, but abolished the office of president*) and made a dead man “Eternal President”…
*) “Chairman” is ChineseCommunese for “president”, 主席
As for Kim Jong Il’s death, yeah, I won’t miss him at all. Fuck him.
So when the universe is cold and dark, when the stars are all burnt-out cinder, Kim Il Sung and his Magic Hair will still be the President of the nonexistent country of North korea on the long swallowed-by-the-sun Earth?
I really need to start doing drugs.
We must! We must!
That gives a much more clear idea of how that government wants the dead Kims to be seen.
I managed to make a cuttlefish. I’m happy and now I’m out. G’night all.
@Ogvorbis
Hey, it is not like it is more insane than God sending himself to kill himself to appease himself and change some ridiculous rules he made himself.
Brother O,
history has shown time and again that entities allegedly meant to last forever or for 1000 years (das tausendjährige Reich, 12:1000 is quite a misproportion) actually turned out to last considerably shorter…
Once N.K. collapses, be it in 1 year, 10 or 100, the successor regime will probably abolish the office of Eternal Chairman…
Curiously, the ancient Romans were moderately democraticish(*) for a while and they seriously hated kings. So as the republic fell, names like “dictator” and “imperator” were used as the more acceptable terms. A “king” was de facto evil, but a dictator was just some dude in the job of telling people what to do. And eventually the dynastic name Caesar morphed into Kaiser and Czar… A king, by any other name. Sic semper tyrannis.
(*) Well OB-viously no women or slaves or foreigners could vote. Duh.
Careful with that axe, Eugene. For the US, that statement has a very specific meaning. And it is embraced by neo-confederates.
@ pelamun
Sad it didn’t happen a few days earlier – for obvious reasons.. It is on the news in China now, but may have to wait a bit for more details.
Also: Is my nym grammatically correct? As a diminutive (yeah I know, my German sucks.) Do I qualify as the longest word/name in German?
/catching up with TET
Ancient Rome democratish? That’s a new one…
Though the constitutional system keeps changing through the centuries, so it’s a topic hard to discuss, but:
– it took quite some time for Latins (? what’s the English word for inhabitants of Latinum) to get the vote.
– the nobility was basically hogging the cursus honorum. I don’t know if there was a law against it, but I guess the fact that the offices were unpaid (or lowly paid) made sure that only patricians could effectively run for office.
– I don’t think any Roman emperor used the title of dictator after Caesar made himself Dictator for life. I mean that didn’t end exactly well. Also, the office of dictator was pretty clearly defined in the Republic, and usually limited to half a year. (Usually the offices like the consulship were based on the principle of collegiality, i.e. there were always two of them and needed to take decisions together, and they were elected annually. In times of need, however, this wouldn’t be effective enough, so the office of dictator was created)
Will the blog Kim Jong-Il Looking At Things be coming to an end?
So about the monophysite heresy thing. Suppose for a second that Mary was a surrogate mother for a wholly divine embryo with no actual human gametic input whatsoever (“omnipotent”, OK?). God the Father, a given. The Mother, then?
That’s when I thought about Mr. Deity & Lucy…of course! Yin and yang.
Surely this was a Deep Mystery of some ancient cult or sect or secret society. Aleister Crowley would know what I’m talking about, and probably RA Wilson too.