Yesterday, King’s stupid poll was all about ‘curing’ autism. Today, he asks,
Yes 54%
No 46%
Why, no, Larry, I don’t…and I think people who do are rather ridiculous, except when they’re desperate, in which case they’re just sad.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
“…except when they’re desperate, in which case they’re just sad.”
No, it just means they’re desperate, jerk.
50/50 now……
Regards,
Rhysz
I like how they’ve been thoughtful enough to include the disclaimer: ‘This is not a scientific poll.’
no I prey
At least they had the sense to include a statement saying “This poll is not scientific.” That’s something, I guess.
Does CNN conduct stupid polls like this all the time?
The switch has been made: 46% Yes to 54% No. Another moronic poll pharyngulated.
@Alex said, ‘No, it just means they’re desperate, jerk.’
I think you missed the point Alex. It IS sad when otherwise intelligent people turn to prayer for help when they’re desperate. It’s sad because these people will never get help from the entity to which they pray. It’s sad when they pray and the bad situation stays the same or get’s worse and desperation becomes despair. It’s sad when they pray and something good DOES happen because it’ll reinforce a an ignorant belief in an imaginary being. But most of all, it’s sad because if they used the time and effort going into prayer to THINK and PLAN and DO, they could most likely get themselves out of the desperate situation much more effectively than waiting for God to do it for them.
Jerk.
–Mark
Once, I heard that news organizations like CNN & cetera conduct badly-conducted polls, which were badly-conducted because they failed to exclude non-voters. Well, I thought that they were at least randomized and well-designed. It turns out to be even worse than I thought: online polls.
I haven’t prayed in a long, long time but had little feelings for those who do until just a few years ago. Now I often feel scorn.
When the main strength of hurricane Katrina seemed to pass New Orleans people shouted out how their prayers had been answered. Of course the fact that that main strength hit Mississippi full in the mouth didn’t fall into their field of view. It didn’t happen to me so God saved me! Then the levees let go.
Still the idiots of faith didn’t give up. Prayer was answered by washing out the sinfulness of that wanton and stupidly placed city.
I guess when it comes down to it my scorn derives from the the ability of those who pray to take ANY result and say that is an answer to prayer. So what if thousands were killed and millions displaced, It didn’t happen to me. Or, better yet, if it did, God must have a message there for me.
56% No. Let’s make it 99% No.
Are people who pray “rather ridiculous”?
It would be more accurate to say they’re childish, gullible, stupid, and out of their minds.
Children are brainwashed to believe praying (talking to yourself) is worthwhile. This is the worst kind of child abuse, and it’s one of the many reasons I have nothing but contempt for all religious idiots, no matter how moderate they think they are.
I pray all the time to all the things in the sky that they take their followers and put them all in a big sack and keep whacking the sack with a giant cosmic clew stick.
“This is not a scientific poll.”
I’m impressed. A little.
Maybe, in some far distant future, it will come to light that online polls are a waste of energy and time for all concerned.
Until then, I work toward this goal.
Vote cast.
64% No
36% Yes
What do they do with the results?
Nay!
Currently:
Yes 36%
No 64%
Jimmy @10 – Katrina had the same effect for me. I watched those poor people suffer and naively thought that when gawd did nothing they would give it up and see the truth.
No doubt they will say the same stupid crap about these latest shooting sprees. There will be a miracle in it somewhere. *snort*
I do not pray as I do not believe in this crap. Some might even consider me rude and disrespectful as I do not pay even second-hand homage to gods during the prayers of others. Mind you, I’m not disrespectful of the person; I’m just not respectful of the woo so I don’t stop my conversations, my meal or anything else during this time.
Wow – You said that perfect and PC. Ridiculous and just sad.
70-30 No!
We got dat phuquer FREEPED!
“It would be more accurate to say they’re childish, gullible, stupid, and out of their minds.”
Actually, it would be more accurate to say that they are doing something hopeless and destructive. If a person is piloting an airplane that is on the verge of a crash landing, this person better be taking care of piloting the plane well rather than praying.
“except when they’re desperate, in which case they’re just sad”
The pilot should not have prayed; he should have stayed attentive to the situation. As you may already know:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/what_not_to_do_in_an_emergency.php
Praying is what you do not do during an emergency.
Have you considered the possibility that what the promoters of this poll want, most of all, are lots of votes? A big number that they can take to sponsors as an indication of how many viewers of this page are sufficiently interested and attentive to what is on this page that they will actually take the time to vote (rather than just casual viewers)?
Just a thought. Maybe I’m wrong about it. And, even if it happens to be true, not that it should influence your decision about voting.
I don’t think prayer demands belief in a higher power. Prayer can be a lot like meditation. I would say I meditate, but someone else could really be doing the same thing and call it prayer.
Either way, I think there’s some valid activity going on in prayer. Not the asking your space dad for stuff part, but the activity of accepting whatever situation you find yourself in – quieting your mind and figuring out what you can accept and what you can work on changing.
As atheists, I think we should encourage a rational sort of prayer or meditation. I think there’s common ground here. I don’t think prayer is completely pointless.
“This is not a scientific poll”
Correct on so many levels.
@Trent #24
Come on, Trent. Cut the woo. I meditate every day; it’s called sleeping and allows me to clear my mind and get ready for the next day. meditation=prayer=woo
@#23 TomS
“Have you considered the possibility that what the promoters of this poll want, most of all, are lots of votes? A big number that they can take to sponsors as an indication of how many viewers of this page are sufficiently interested and attentive to what is on this page that they will actually take the time to vote (rather than just casual viewers)?”
Well, if this is so, it could indicate to sponsors at least that the such viewers would be irreligious.
#24 Trent
“I don’t think prayer demands belief in a higher power. Prayer can be a lot like meditation. I would say I meditate, but someone else could really be doing the same thing and call it prayer.”
It is called thinking and contemplation. It needs no special name like prayer, except possibly “meditation.” Even so, it ought not to appeal to any anti-humanist otherworldly sort of stuff. Just rational reflection.
i dont think prayer in and of itself is necessarily ridiculous. however, the belief that prayer has some effect on future events is ridiculous.
as others have said, i could view prayer as a form of meditation or silent reflection. there’s certainly nothing woo about silent reflection.
Well that’s not really prayer then is it?
Now 73% No.
My mother used to pray: she did so when my grandfather had a heart attack, in fact. Before taking him to the nearby hospital (this was in 1969). Not surprisingly, he died and she blamed herself for not being “good enough” to have her prayer answered. At least that’s what I’ve been able to glean–I know my parents’ sex life went down the drain then, and even though she was brought up Episcopalian she always had that invisible dark cloud of guilt overhead that usually is a mark of Catholics.
I wonder to what she attributed her own decades-long cancer, since she had been thin, healthy and well exercised until it struck. We didn’t talk religion much at this point since I was a Wiccan then, but when we did her greatest worry was that she wouldn’t be able to see me in heaven. I told her that any god who would condemn a good person to eternal suffering just for using the wrong name to call him by wasn’t worthy of her attention, let alone worship. That was the end of that conversation, and I didn’t even have to walk out.
Prayer warps minds and through this means distorts lives. I’m much happier without it, even though I felt like a bit of a freak at Mom’s funeral 5 years ago. At least I cried in the right places, like everyone else–the idea that she might be with her sky daddy now didn’t seem to be much consolation for those who claimed to believe it. We all just missed her here. Still do, in fact.
Missing: opportunity to answer “none of your business.” Yep, that’s the choice I want: “Yes”, “no”, and “none of your business.” I realize I don’t have to vote at all, just ignore the question.
46% No, pre-PZ? Surprising.
Now 75% “No”. Pharyngulation, successful.
Now, it displays the respective number of votes.
Currently:
Yes 24% 152
No 76% 484
Total Votes: 636
Just a few thousand more votes, and “No” can clearly go above 90%.
I voted yes and then I realized it says pray not prey.
@#26 meditation=prayer=woo
Prayer (per dictionary) = A reverent petition made to God, a god, or another object of worship.
Meditation has nothing to do with prayer or woo.
It’s now 77% no. We’re getting there.
+tomh
Meditation is not prayer.
Desperation can lead to many things when it comes to having a child or sibling with autism. I spent much of my career working with these individuals as well as with families. It takes alot to cope with these situations and if prayer helps them get through the day then fine…let them pray.
However, of larger concern to me as an educator is the plethura of bullshit therapies that supposedly “cure” autism or complaints about things that “causes” the disability. Look at all that crap about vacinations.
Even worse, are how many people are making money off of this desperation whether it is selling dolphin therapy (HA) or occupational therapy (smaller ha) or homeopathic therapies (HAHA). Serious time and resources need to be spent towards actually looking for a “cure” or remedy or better education for individuals with autism
If we need to turn a sceptic eye towards autism, lets turn it towards these bullshit therapies first and then towards prayer second.
As for me, if a parent or sibling wanted to pray I would be fine with it. The situation is hard and hard to imagine except when you are actually there. If they wanted to crush up volcanic ash and mix it with the “essence” of rapid dog and feed it to their child, I would have a much louder objection. BTW, This was an actual therapy from a homeopathic snake oil salesman.
When I see people praying, I think of conjurors casting spells. Or the pope summoning unseen spirits.
Fie on sorcery!
Why even bother praying when you can hire someone to do it for you?
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_04/017598.php
Have any of you read some of the comments in the Larry King blog post on autism? For example, ‘Autism Grandma’. These are desperate people with awful problems. But in their desperation, and worse yet, fog of confusion, they are not responding intelligently. Instead, they are making a bad situation worse and are being preyed upon by predators of the worst kind. And I’m fairly certain that even a long conversation with the most thoughtful and compassionate skeptic in the world would make very little difference and leave them just as superstition-bound and vulnerable as before.
I’d call that pretty damned sad. Alex, I think you misunderstood: PZ was not being contemptuous but was lamenting their state.
#26
Expect to get “nailed” for your comment.
Sleep is NOT mediation. Prayer is NOT mediation. Basic research on this subject will educate you as to what meditation is/involves.
Don’t mean to spam, but I didn’t see a way to send a message to PZ. Maybe someone else can.
There’s a poll on the gay rights case in Iowa.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090403/NEWS/90403010
Do you agree with the Iowa Supreme Court’s decision?
Yes 48% (15909 votes)
No 52% (16940 votes)
Prayer has a lot of similarities to homoeopathy.
Note that this poll is tied in with the visit of Mega-Sheister Joel Olsteen and his wife to the show. On Larry’s site there is an opportunity to e-mail questions for the upcoming guests. I just e-mailed this question for the Olsteen’s – “Do you ever feel any guilt about preying on the weak-willed and gullible in order to make money?”
The most fun I ever had watching Larry King was actually years ago on the show Jeopardy! It, of course, was a celebrity edition and I had the pleasure of watching Kareem Abdul-Jabbar completely destroy Larry and some Baywatch bimbo.
80% no (N=883)
:-D :-D :-D
Thread won.
Rabid. :-) Rabies, not rapidity.
Bizarre.
Is silent praying a Catholic-only thing or a European-only one or something? ~:-|
Not so quick. Many of my dreams appear to be meditation run wild.
See that gray bar at the top of the page? At its right end it says “Contact”.
“This is not a scientific poll” I lol’d
20% Yes, 80% No!
Pharyngulation is accomplished!
“See that gray bar at the top of the page? At its right end it says “Contact”.”
—
Thx, I was looking to the bottom of page by convention. There was a contact link, but nothing useful inside of it.
o noes! down to 79% no. someone let go of a percent. twasnt me.
#47 Arnold Facepalmer,
(nice handle :) )
their name is Osteen, not Olsteen. We don’t want to appear clueless, like the people attacking a ‘Richard Hawkins’, right?
Sorry, misspelling the names of people you’re criticizing is just something I really can’t stand. It’s like constructing a great argument and basing it on a really stupid logical fallacy obvious to anyone. Well, almost.
“Do you pray?”
= “Do you talk to yourself?”
= “Do you carry on conversations in your head?”
= “Do you pretend to speak to somebody when nobody is present?”
~ “Do you often wish?”
~ “Do you often want?”
~ “Do you often demand?”
~ “Do you often insist on control?”
~ “Do you often ask for help?”
~ “Do you often ask for favors?”
~ “Do you often ask for more?”
~ “Do you often appeal to fairness?”
~ “Do you often assert your rights?”
~ “Do you often encounter problems you are unable to solve?”
~ “Do you often encounter problems you are unable to recognize or understand?”
~ “Do you often encounter problems you just can’t deal with?”
~ “Do you often expect other people to solve your problems?”
~ “Do you often suspect other people are responsible for your problems?”
~ “Do you often expect other people to fix or pay for your problems?”
~ “Do you often find situations beyond your control unfair?”
~ “Do you often find situations beyond your control grievously intolerable?”
~ “Do you often find problematic situations frightening?”
~ “Do you often regard other people as impotent to help you?”
~ “Do you often regard people to be against you when they do not respond to your pleas?”
~ “Do you often regard your government as impotent to help you?”
~ “Do you often regard the government to be against you when it doesn’t respond to your pleas?”
~ “Do you often find the world impotent to help you?
~ “Do you often find the world to be against you when it doesn’t respond to your pleas?”
~ “Do you often curse nature for bringing you into a tough and problem-riddled world that has the audacity to challenge your wits and treats you with exactly the same indifference with which it treats a rock?”
~ “Do you like to hate everything you perceive gives you a hard time?”
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One swig, and you can appeal to the Ultimate Higher Power DIRECTLY, guaranteed!
[*Snake Oil tincture of religion]
Larry King? The only thing that guy is good at is pretending to be a good interviewer by wearing suspenders and leaning forward on his elbows as if in rapt enthrallment. He must have heard somewhere that the best interviewers were good at “listening”, and that they tended to look like serious journalist-types.
Ha, I can totally hear him, with his ridiculous voice, just throwing off random poll topics to a frantic intern: “eh, whatever, how about something about praying? Bring me some Gin!”
Hah! Yeah, the gin is part of the act. Hard drinking “journalist”, ya know.
He has no opinion and confuses that with looking “objective”.
Larry King is like a bad movie. As my mom likes to say about bad movies: “das hat keinen arsch und keinen kopf.”
According to urban legend King was interviewing Donald Trump and Trump said: “Do you mind if I sit back a little? Your breath is awful.”
‘Tis Himself #58, HAH!!! That’s hilarious!!!
Felix @#54
“misspelling the names of people you’re criticizing is just something I really can’t stand.”
I would contend that misspelling — and mispronouncing — the name of someone you don’t like is a tactic. It indicates a sort of dismissiveness. Think back to when Geraldine Ferraro was the VP candidate. People who opposed her were incapable of pronouncing her last name. It always came out Ferrari or Ferario. And George Bush the 1st insisted on calling Saddam Hussein SAD-um Hussein. (I heard once that pronounciation meant stable boy.)
I just wonder how often such mispronounciation (or misspelling) is intentional is how often it is unconscious.
I just love pharyngulating pointless polls.
78% for prayinglessness
Felix @54.
My spelling skills are actually impeccable and I do know it is Osteen. My typimg skills, however, suck, and notice that the letter l is adjacent to o on the keyboard.
n is adjacent to m as well ;)
Anyway, I’ll work on it.
Does rolling your eyes while muttering “Oh, God” count? Because, if so, I pray all the time.
“Yes:
‘Thank the Goddess for abortion.’ “
Voted No
Let the Pharyngulation continue!
Do you pray?
Yes 23% 359
No 77% 1180
Total Votes: 1539
As someone who has studied Buddhist meditation and once long ago was a born-again preacher-in-training, I can tell you there is a world of difference between the active quieting of the mind (yes it seems oxymoronic) that meditation tries to achieve, and the passive “let your love flow into me” that prayer tries to achieve (when not simply begging for the laws of physics to be changed). It may seem similar, but the meditator is in pursuit of a goal, while the pray-er is just waiting for something to happen.
Yes 24% 387
No 76% 1230
Total Votes: 1617
No % is going down, I wonder if some religious blog is sending people there
Poll: Which is funniest?
a) “Yes: ‘Thank God for abortion.’ ”
b) “Yes: ‘Thank the Goddess for abortion.’ ”
c) Sophist, FCD’s answer: “Does rolling your eyes while muttering “Oh, God” count? Because, if so, I pray all the time.”
c) Voltaire’s answer: “I never had any prayer but one: ‘Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.”
Looks like this poll has been Pharangulated!
astrounit @55
That was one sly I Love Lucy reference!
Just out of curiosity, why are they ridiculous or sad?