There’s a common joke that claiming to have knowledge of the existence of god is like claiming that you know you’ve got fairies living in your garden — both are equally ridiculous, and both require that the definition of the subject and of evidence for the subject be equally nebulous. The only difference is that billions are willing to accept the former, but no one is crazy enough to accept the latter…you’d think. Not so, though: there is actually something called the Icelandic Elf School where you can learn all about the classification and cultivation of various sorts of fairy-like entities.
Also known as Álfaskólinn in Icelandic, The Icelandic Elf School teaches students and visitors about the five different kinds of elves or hidden people in myth that are believed to inhabit the country of Iceland. The school is located in Reykjavík, the country’s largest city.
The school is headed by Magnús Skarphéðinsson, brother of the leader of one of Iceland’s largest political parties. Magnús has a full curriculum, and certificate programs for visitors that can be earned in as little as half a day. However, the school also publishes texts on hidden people, partly for its own use in the classroom. There is also ongoing research on the elves and hidden people of Iceland.
I’m thinking that this organization sounds a lot like the American Discovery Institute, or just about any bible college you can name.
(The Wikipedia entry cites a dearth of sources for the school — here’s another.)
i wonder if Icelandic elves are participating in this year’s Gnome Olympics ..?
http://www.hilltopskiarea.org/
Oh, lawdy. G K Chesterton is proven right every day.
Underpants Gnomes for the win.
Phase 1: Collect Underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit!
How so?
Matt McCormick at Atheism: Proving the Negative says:
Not only is there a school, Icelandic belief in faeries, hilariously, can halt developments:
http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/173/fairy_types_dos_and_donts_iceland_and_fairy_forests.html
“Iceland: where elves are citizens
According to Iceland’s Tourist Board, 80 per cent of Icelanders believe in elves. This is more than an attempt to attract tourists to the land of fire and ice, since 25 per cent of the population of Hafnarfjordur, Iceland’s second largest port, actually claim to have seen them
The local authority in Hafnarfjordur has a set-aside policy for elves, the largest clan of the ‘Huldufolk’ or ‘hidden people’. Land is designated in the town as being of special importance to elves and cannot be built on.
Throughout Iceland, whenever a building or underground cable-laying project is suffering disturbances which indicate that the elves are upset, an elf medium is called in to negotiate. Pipelines have had to be re-routed and buildings re-sited as a result.”
A purely subjective thought is that a majority of those who enjoy the mythology of faeries have a better handle reality than the folks at the American Discovery Institute. In fact, I would imagine that they would also be insulted to be compared to them.
Provided without comment, Ann Arbor faerie doors:
http://www.urban-fairies.com/
Wall Street on the Tundra
This is as crazy as …… believing in gods & angels.
See if I can link successfully this time:
Atheism: Proving the Negative
Apparently the link doesn’t work. The article is at http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904.
From the text, I can only see that fairy study is going on. Perhaps as one might study the Bible for its cultural relevance in a class.
I’d need something else to accept that they actually believe in fairies, and not tongue-in-cheek. Another possibility is that people learn there, and it is entirely left up to them whether or not they “believe” in such things.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Or “elves,” as the case may be. I don’t know the difference, for the same reason differentiating between “gods” is basically meaningless.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
You’re forgetting Conan Doyle.
As an Icelander myself, you shouldn’t judge this so harshly, after all Iceland is a very atheistic nation, people call themselves Christians yet most people don’t believe in God.
Icelandic Sagas and storytelling is really a rich and interesting part of our culture, we live in a very extreme landscape with near total darkness all day round in winter and near completely light in Summer.
The tiny country of 300,000 has spawned a large number of great poets, writers, musicians (sorry about Bjork) and has a rich history for such a tiny country.
Nobody really takes Elves seriously, minus a few, but in any nation you’ll find crackpots, Iceland is no exception.
I won’t take insult to it, but I think you are misunderstanding a weird people, proudly so. Iceland is a pretty amazing place, and we have quirks. Hey its better to be into elves than it is God right?
At least we finally have an answer;
Alex Trebek: “Are you Icelandic or retarded?”
The answer is yes.
Um, why?
Should I be ok with Leprechauns because of my Irish Heritage?
Believing in nonsense is believing in nonsense.
Well d’oh. I was just fixing to send this to Prof. PZ:
“Elf Detection 101”
We occasionally have a similar issue in New Zealand. Development projects have been affected by respect for Maori belief in a taniwha (mythical aquatic monster) that is said to live nearby. I think Pharynguloids will enjoy the attached article’s subtle ironies: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3003401 (note pakeha = New Zealanders of non-indigenous origin).
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle believed in the Cottingley Fairies. He should have had Sherlock Holmes investigate them!
Yes, Conan Doyle! Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson were extremely upset that their biographer had a weakness for stories of little girls and faeries. They felt it called into question the validity of their own very important work in the art of detection.
“Um, why?
Should I be ok with Leprechauns because of my Irish Heritage?
Believing in nonsense is believing in nonsense.”
Think you might be making a nothing issue to Icelanders into something bigger?
I never said its ok to believe in them, I just said there could be much worse things to knock Icelandic people for, even the very few of them that believe in it.
I would tell you to publish a paper on epistemology that backs up this asserting and explain how your “sensus atheistus” like Plantinga did for his epsitemology.
Facilis, still with Plantinga, already disproven. You should know better if you had any reason, logic, and memory. Tsk, Tsk, you are such a disappointment. You should have learned something with your sojourn here.
I seem to recall hearing something similar recently. Anyone have a resource on the history of this policy (preferrably in English, as my Icelandic is abysmal)?
Glen Davidson, read posts #6 and #8 for examples of how this belief is serious and literal, and how it has real-world consequences. So this isn’t just purely a literary or pop-culture phenomenon (like folks studying Tolkien’s elves, which they know to be fictitious).
~David D.G.
Well sure. Like having produced Bjork.
Anyway, my point was directed at individuals who actually believe in elves and, not about Iceland or Icelanders in general. I personally have had a desire to travel to Iceland for years.
In America, at least, I think a lot of pagans who claim to believe in elves, fairies, angels, djinn, leprechauns, or other similar phenomena sort of skirt the gray area between genuine belief and playacting; playacting, and appreciation for myth and heritage. When with nonbelievers — or when in a skeptical mood — they take it all as an elaborate metaphor or bit of whimsy. These are the stories we tell.
But when in a mellow mood, or in an accepting crowd, they look for signs and evidence, and credit themselves for special sensitivity and insight into hidden and secret realities which other people dismiss. They honor ancestors from other cultures who had ancient wisdom because they’re so open and multi-cultural and, above all, spiritual. Their belief is a badge of their identity. You believe what the group you want to identify with believes.
Back and forth, back and forth — till even they can’t really say what they believe anymore. Bottom line, they don’t care. As long as they get to play the part of the sensitive soul who thinks deeply and walks in faith — and impress themselves — and belong to the right group — then it doesn’t matter whether elves or fairies really exist or not. They slam their curiosity shut, and sway with the music.
At first I thought Pee Zed might have been exaggerating. DI is trying to change education, government, laws, and society as a whole. And history and science and et cetera et cetera. Without investigating, and despite the family political connection, I’d have doubted this “school” is trying to do any of that. And I would have guessed it closer to a church or other scam, a way of parting fools and money.
However, after reading the comments to-date and finding claims the Icelandic government (as an example) inspects for elves, I’m not so sure… maybe this really is a Icelandic DI?
Slightly tangentially… Do the governmental experts every actually find “evidence” for elves? And if they do, is there any correlation between the finding of the “evidence” and how (un?-)connected the project’s backers and/or how (un?-)important the project, or similar? In other words, as an example/analogy, if some project had the backing of the PM and was expected to pump several million euros/dollars into the economy and employ many people, could that project be delayed/denied due to “evidence” for elves? And if so, how would the delay/denial be “reversed”? I’m assuming Iceland is mostly corruption-free, but these inspections smell like a grand opportunity for numerous people to line their pockets?
I had already read #6.
But I was discussing primarily the text and the school. Judging from what “Thor” says, it does sound more like a cultural school, not one espousing a belief in elves.
I’d expect to enjoy some of their lessons, in fact.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Michael Lewis’s story on the financial collapse of Iceland in Vanity Fair last week documents how a nation of fishermen became a giant hedge fund. The real interesting part:
I pledge to be certified in Elvology by the end of this year!
I think the difference between believing in the big sky fairy and honoring Icelandic/Maori/etc elves and such lies in the body count. How many people are killed in a decade for not believing?
How much harm is being done? Yes it’s people being foolish but people are foolish. It’s part of who we are. I had a friend at school from Iceland and I asked her about the elves. She told me “Yes we’ve all seen them. That doesn’t mean we believe in them.”
My 2 cents.
I’m sorry, but I can prove that elves exist. I have felt their elfin presence in my daily life, guiding me through all my trials and tribulations. All of you non-believers need to open yourselves to the spirit of the elves, and you too can be saved.
Also, there are evil elves that live in my dryer and eat my socks.
On the corruption comment, sadly because the country is so small there is much more opportunity for behind doors deals, collusion, etc..
Like with the recent collapse, there is a big belief amongst the people that these bankers took what money they had left offshore and got the hell out of dodge.
That story about Alcoa both surprises me and doesn’t. I’d bet it was a tiny fee to begin with, but it shows that the government in Iceland still continues to do some really idiotic things.
I can guarantee you the fact media coverage on that story in the outside world is mocking that, it will upset Icelanders and see people asking for the government to stop that nonsense.
I’ll see if I can find an email of someone at the University who could speak about this, if any of you are truly interested to hear more about this Alcoa and Icelanders and Elves. I know I want to find out more about the Alcoa nonsense.
You know there is a regulatory agency that must come out and check any site that is proposed for construction to make sure there are no invisible people in the area, yes, they have an inspector! That has to be the cushiest gov’t job ever!
Another thought occurs to me: By any chance, is the headquarters for Keebler in Iceland?
~David D.G.
In light of Iceland’s financial system collapse, it’s a pity the local elves couldn’t have gotten a bit of advice from the gnomes of Zurich. Oh. Maybe they did…
Why do I think that by far the most people who report that they “believe in the hidden people” report their beliefs slightly tongue-in-cheek? I bet few of them would say yes to the hypothetical follow-up question “do you REALLY believe in the hidden people?”
And #17: It is obviously better to believe in the hidden people than believing in God. First of all, the hidden people don’t seem to object to, say, gay marriage or claim that those who don’t believe in them will be punished for all eternity or anything similar. Second, the hidden people are presumably supposed to be straightforward material, biological, non-magical beings whose existence don’t violate any scientific law and is a purely empirical question.
Hmmm….
Do elves have large feet? How similar is this Icelandic elf phenomenon with Sasquatch “mythology” that has arisen in the Pacific NW?
I could see this as real possibility. Physicists have theorized that there are multiple dimensions right? What if these creatures evolved in another dimension and have some technology that allows them brief interludes in ours?
No, comparing the Eater of Socks in Hogfather to the Lords and Ladies, it’s quite clear that what’s in your dryer is not an e—. Too much metal in the dryer…
Thor @ #22 wrote:
Think you might be ignoring all the posts citing examples where companies had to pay real money and incur real renovation costs because of your country’s widespread belief in elves? Don’t let national pride blind you to a problem.
#39 G.D. I agree fully.
Note those numbers from ‘a survey’ stating over 50% of Icelanders believe in hidden people is silly. Of course there is no link to a survey, and speaking from experience people think its a cute/funny story, very few actually take it seriously.
If 25% of people have seen them I’d say they’re doing a pretty shitty job of being “hidden”.
When the students get their certificate, are they then qualified Elfologists>/b>?
Why? The Religious Right and its jackbooted brigade of dogmatic non-controversy-teachers would only prevent it from ever seeing the light of day.
And you’re still alive. You really don’t want Pratchett’s elves in your appliances…or in your house…or in your country…
But the elves protect some tracts of land from development!
Whatever works….
Yes, what if.
Icelandic vodka, FTW!
Off topic, and I’m sorry this is the last time I’ll be mention the Narwhal song.
Since someone else brought Bjork up.
Imagine* what the Narwhal song would sound like if she’d recorded it.
*Not a Bjork/Narwhal remix.
This must be their text book: http://www.amazon.com/Lady-Cottingtons-Pressed-Fairy-Book/dp/1857933362
:P
There is a differnce between “charming folklore” and the religious stuff since I doubt if any Icelanders worship elves and probably don’t expect them to produce miracles. They might not be so good at banking and let’s not talk about Bjork but I have known a few Icelandic blondes I would have worshipped. This calls for further investigation.
A book lost somewhere on my shelves
Assures me that there are no elves
Nor fairies, banshees, gnomes, nor trolls
Not one of these, my text extols!
The certainty with which it speaks
Reflects its out-of-date techniques:
It’s mostly full of Bronze-Age tribal
Myths. It’s called… let’s see… The Bible.
(And that’s why I don’t find it odd
That fairies don’t believe in god.)
Sounds like they’re just having a little fun with a cultural myth to me. Their version of Bigfoot. Except slightly more interesting and the eye witnesses are less likely to be drunk rednecks.
Thor wrote:
The article Mantel cited at #6 reported that “Pipelines have had to be re-routed and buildings re-sited as a result.”
Does resiting an entire building sound like a it would cost a “joke amount?” That sounds pretty major to me. Look, you seem to think that true elf-believers are actually quite rare in Iceland. That may well be true. But it’s still clear that you have a problem with a “vocal minority” who have successfully integrated their supernatural beliefs into governmental operations. That’s a problem. Take it from an American: ignoring what you consider to be fringe elements of your society will not make them go away. You aren’t nearly as concerned about this as you should be.
Silly Icelanders, everyone knows the last of the elves departed Middle Earth after Frodo destroyed the Ring.
HUGE tracts of land.
The elves I can take or leave alone, but does anyone know how, if I am able to compile a list of local fundies, they can be turned into hidden people?
The impression I get from Thor’s very interesting comments—and, admittedly, after dinner with a nice wine—is Thor’s a bit surprised at the inspections, resitings, etc., which are claimed to be a result of elfology, and that Thor is going to look into this a bit more. The impression I have is that Thor thought the elves were mostly a colourful joke (modulo a handful of nutters). The impression I have is some doubts have been raised in Thor’s mind. Whilst I could easily be mistaken, I’m inclined to give Thor but the benefit of the doubt and some time.
Laugh it up at the elf-schoolers now, but who’s gonna pull your chestnuts out of a fire when you run into a draugr or a skogsfru?
Pascalsson’s Wager?
I’m glad you stopped Lurking, Longtime.
So do this Icelandic school teach you how to get to Lothlorien? (Hint: It does exist, in the lab of a certain well known evolutionary biologist based in the Midwestern USA. For those in the know, he’s the one who coined the term “Red Queen”.)
I once found a website where people would hypnotize themselves and retrieve “lost memories” of them being an elf in a ridiculously over-detailed elf kingdom.
Most memorable quote: “I am only 5’6″, and yet I am an elf.” Powers included pyrokinesis, telepathy, etc, etc…
Superglue their doors shut. You might still hear ’em, so a dab on their lips is perhaps a worthwhile investment in preserving your sanity.
Why are you all so afraid to teach the elven controversy?
Hitler and Stalin didn’t believe in elves, and look where that got us.
OT, but … could somebody over at The Daily Grail be pitching pebbles for attention? See –
blf @ 42:
“…it’s quite clear that what’s in your dryer is not an e—. Too much metal in the dryer…”
But then who’s eating my socks? Bad Jesus! No sock chewing!
You people are just plain silly. Thank goodness that there are people high up in the U.N. who understand what’s really important:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2009/03/whoopi-goldberg-is-going-to-moderate.html
Wanna know something even worse? The princess of Norway is running her own angel school… Don’t worry tho, we’re not _all_ nuts.
Iceland would be a happier place today if more of its denizens had believed in fairies and fewer had believed in its banks.
If you had consumed the amount of alcohol that Icelanders do, I guess believing in elves would come naturally to you as well.
Only Finns are in same league! Don’t know if they (Finns) believe in anything except beating the crap out of Russians (and the occasional Swede for good measure).
I’m born in Iceland and lived there for several decades. During this time I heard a few time, 5 times or so, that this or that rock or hill had been preserved because of belief in elves. I never heard anyone claiming to believe in elves, although I suspected some people did like to belief such things.
In our defense I point out that Icelanders top the list of those who accept evolution (at 85% or so) and, according to the state church’s own survey, less that half affirm the central tenets of Christianity.
Personally I love Iceland. It brought Magnus Scheving into my world. Quite possibly the biggest spunk ever to grace the planet.
Go on, Google him ladies, give yourself a treat.
But this one I actually like.
Elves ftw.
:0 Wow – I saw this link it was on a friends status update as a joke (He’s rather sick of practicing law and was looking for alternative careers when becoming an expert in elfology struck his fancy.)
@#71 – Oh crap…just what Ronald D Moore needs – a bigger head.
Now, now Maddy, don’t make it sound even worse than it is.
Granted, she is a princess, but she isn’t The Princess of Norway. She isn’t even a royal highness anymore. She might be nuts, but not in any real position. The only reason we even know about her nuttery is because the coloured press is obsessed with her and her creepy husband.
Maybe it’s just because I’ve had Biblical myths drilled into my head since I was old enough to sit up, but given the choice between a sermon/discussion and a lecture on fairies/elves…I’d much rather hear about the fairies/elves.
Thanks, Fernando Magyar. I’m going to drop #78 on some economists and financiers I know. They’ll get a chuckle out of it, just as I did.
people call themselves Christians yet most people don’t believe in God.
(boggles at the stupid)
That’s like saying “It’s traditional to call myself a d0rk. But I try hard not to be.”
Aww, come on, that’s totally different. The hidden folk really do exist! ;)
“Hey its better to be into elves than it is God right?”
Posted by Thor
“Um, why? Should I be ok with Leprechauns because of my Irish Heritage? Believing in nonsense is believing in nonsense.”
Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp
I see a huge difference.
Have elves, dwarves or leprechauns commanded people to kill others for not believing in them?
Do dwarves, elves or leprechauns demand 10% of all of your earnings?
Do leprechauns, elves or dwarves command humans to exploit & despoil the natural environment?
Be careful when making fun of others for “believing in nonsense”. No one is immune from that activity.
And it really doesn’t matter much what people believe. It is only what they do or how they act that is important, because only action has any effect on reality.
My wife was wondering yesterday where all the odd socks went, and then she realised the answer – the elves use them as sleeping bags!
Plantinga? That little ignoramus who hasn’t even heard of evolutionary epistemology?
Those with too unreliable senses have already been eaten by the hyenas and the leopards, you see. That leaves us.
Plantinga’s paper is a failure of peer-review… wait… what do you mean “it wasn’t peer-reviewed”?
You keep using that word “dimension”. It does not mean what you think it means.
Comparing the “Elf School” to DI is like comparing the Boy Scouts to the Nazi Party.
I have to side with Thor on this one, I’m pretty sure no-one (except maybe – and that’s a big maybe) Magnús Skarphéðinsson and a handful of other people actually believe in elves. As to the Alcoa story, it’s the first I’ve heard of it. After very quick googling, I can’t find any mention of this, so I’m inclined to think it’s one of those ‘gosh, aren’t other nations weird’ stories you get on the news every so often (like the one that popped up a few years back -and still appears in trivia books- about Domino’s in Iceland selling reindeer pizza), where it doesn’t seem to matter if it’s true or not.
There was a lot of opposition to the smelter being built, so this might have it’s roots in some sort of publicity stunt on behalf of the environmentalists – after all, they did raise a níðstöng there (a sort of “cursing pole” aimed at Alcoa and the government), but that doesn’t mean anyone believed it would work.
As has already been pointed out, we are a fairly rational people. As is, our biggest problems are the national church (which is a Church of England-y type, really; won’t marry gays, occasionally claims something like “the only morality is christian morality”, gobbles up huge wads of tax-payers money each year, very rarely molests choirbys) and the few small but vocal cult-type groups – all of them nominally christian.
By the ‘we’ above I mean atheists – the nation has bigger problems as a whole. Like Björk and Sigur Rós.
DI == Fairy School?
Are we going hysterical again? Or is the Fairy School trying to infiltrate the Icelandic public school system and inject Fairynomics into the mathematical curriculum, as an attempt to get Fairy Loyalty Oaths required of all citizens, and Fairy Priests into government offices?
Believing in fairies might be stupid, fairy schools might be a huge waste of money, but positing a false equivalency between the leading edge of totalitarian theocracy and a silly woo hobby and profit making operation forces us to create a new form of Godwin: FairyGodwin — whoever uses the reality of dominionism to fight some petty form of nonsense loses the argument.
I would totally attend this ‘school’. I fancy a bit of nonsense, especially the kind of nonsense that doesn’t start wars, incite hate crimes or attempt to influence scientific policy.
Hooray for elves and fairies! Part of me is five years old again.
Wait a minute, I’m confused. Am I supposed to label myself an “aelfist” now?
Gosh, it was tough enough keeping track of the Christian fundamentalists’ idiocy, now I gotta keep an eye on the elfists too? And all for what? So that aelfism can become the newest target to blame for society’s woes?
On second thought, I’m glad Iceland’s financial system imploded. Serve’s ’em right…
The important think is that Bjork isn’t the only person from Iceland.
PZ likes Sigur Rós, so that’s one problem solved. Heh.
No one here believes in elves, I don’t know were this survey gets its numbers but its not from reality, maybe the dreamt them.
The founder of this elf school (Magnus Skarphedinsson) is one of the biggest crackpots in the country, believes in ghosts, elves, jesus and just about every supernatural hoax out there, he repeatedly makes an ass of himself on radio and tv trying to defend the existence of ghosts. Moreover he is the founder and head of Músavinafélagið (Friends of the mouse).
This bunch despoils the environment themselves. Note how they plant thorn trees just for grins and giggles.
Up the airy mountain,
Down the rushy glen,
We daren’t go a-hunting
For fear of little men;
Wee folk, good folk,
Trooping all together;
Green jacket, red cap,
And grey cock’s feather!
By the craggy hill-side,
Through the mosses bare
They have planted thorn trees
For pleasure here and there.
Is any man so daring
To dig up one in spite,
He shall find the thornies set
In his bed at night.
Magnús Skarphéðinsson was also involved (I think he was in charge) of a supposed alien landing on top of a glacier here some years ago. They were 100% sure they knew the time of the landing so they went up there to wait for them. Of course no aliens came so that night was kind of a let down for them.
That number (80%) of Icelanders is a lie.
http://www.icelandtouristboard.com/elf.html
This is a link to a subpage of the icelandic tourist board’s site and it says only 10% believe in elves (which I find kind of high). I have never met a person in my life who claims to believe in elves.
Thanks to the fellow Icelanders who posted, I had wondered in my head if the Alcoa deal was either made up, or a ploy by the environmentalists in Iceland to delay or annoy Alcoa.
Since I’m no longer living in Iceland, I would love to see if anyone back home can dig up if that story is true, and if so what the real deal is with it.
Cause it would be embarrassing if the government is allowing or mandating that to happen.
To those mocking Iceland’s economic collapse, that’s just cold.
“There was a lot of opposition to the smelter being built, so this might have it’s roots in some sort of publicity stunt on behalf of the environmentalists”
And it might have been environmentalists making use of the elf cultural beliefs and laws as a way to buy time, a delaying tactic.
The Elf superstition is nothing like American bible-thumping. First and foremost, the elves are not treated as moral or legal authorities. They’re treated like we treat an endangered species. If construction is held up due to an ‘elf check’, it’s not because of an elfin Commandment.
It’s merely an eccentricity.
Mr. Mxyzptlk!
No its how they view themselves, “Christian” means to them an identity to their past, not a religious description. You should read A Society without God. What the least religious nations can tell us. By Phil Zuckerman.
Not sure why you’d call people from the most irreligious nations in the world stupid, maybe reading that book you could get a sense of why Nordic countries are so unique and have lots to teach America and other religious nations on how to let go of religion.
“Cause it would be embarrassing if the government is allowing or mandating that to happen.”
Eh. It’s not much different from holding up something in the US because of traditional Native American concerns.
It’s apparently a pretty distinct traditional part of Icelandic culture, which is arguably worth indulging a little bit just to keep it around a little. Kind of like Boston tourguides in colonial costume.
I bet that the irrational attachment to wearing neckties in business has more economic impact worldwide than elf-related issues in Iceland.
“Do leprechauns, elves or dwarves command humans to exploit & despoil the natural environment?”
“This bunch despoils the environment themselves. Note how they plant thorn trees just for grins and giggles.
Posted by: ‘Tis Himself
Sorry, I don’t consider planting thorn trees to be a despoiling of the environment. They provide shelter & food to a variety of other creatures and prevent erosion.
Because they (both thorn trees & such non-existent magical creatures) annoy some humans is hardly despoiling. In fact, I get “grins and giggles” just thinking about it.
“I’m thinking that this organization sounds a lot like the American Discovery Institute, or just about any bible college you can name.”
It seems more like a place in Salem or that holds “courses” where you could learn about witches. Or a place in Sleepy Hollow that holds courses and does research on the “headless horseman” and other local supernatural “events”.
ie, it’s mostly a tourist trap. I doubt there’s any real political agenda.
I really don’t see what all the fuss is about. I mean, *someone* has been helping Santa Claus make all those toys.
Of course elves are real.
Who do you think created the gods?
Step 1: Sexy elf warrior maidens
No further steps required.
Kltpzyxm! Kltpzyxm! Kltpzyxm!
(googles Magnus Skarphedinsson)
Oh, he’s rather a bit of a neopagan selfpromotionist. I was hoping he’d be a bit more fun, like, oh, Skarp-Héðinn Njálsson, but maybe that was setting my sights a bit high.
I once heard an explanation from a Norwegian teacher. It is charming to hear one say they are putting bread crusts outside for the gnomes. (The unsavory reality would be that it’s really drawing mice out of the house.) I like that.
I suppose Chris is referring to Chesterton’s quip “When people stop believing in God, they don’t believe in nothing— they believe in anything.”
But elf-belief probably predates Christianity in Iceland so I’m not sure what the relevance is.
Don Kane asked:
The Cylon mainframe, of course.
Thor:
At least you got an awesome church out of the deal. But there are a lot of people all over the world who are *cough* diplomatic *cough* about their religious beliefs. And by diplomatic I mean lying to people who likely know they are lying, and everyone pretends there’s no lying going on.
Maybe I’ll visit Iceland someday, I guess I’ve got about 300,000 cousins there.
And yet neckties wouldn’t be constricting the circulation of blood through the brains of so many businessmen today, if it hadn’t been for magical thinking.
Croatian soldiers had a tradition of tying colourful scarves around their necks, which were supposed to make the wearer invisible in battle.(!)
Parisians picked up on this during the Thirty Year’s War as a fashion statement, and the rest is history.
I went to Faeriecon in Philadelphia two years ago (a bunch of cute chicks in fairy costumes plus a lot of cool artwork.) It was really cool, and there were some discussions. I caught one question from someone in the audience as I walked by. It was an older woman and she asked, “When approaching a home of a fae creature, what is the best approach so as not to offend?”
I waited to hear the laughter from the people on the stage. Instead I heard, “You’d want to treat it like any home you were visiting. Be polite…” followed by a bunch of other crap. The speaker was not humoring her, and others chimed in.
That kind of stuff is harmless (unless expoited with the selling of cystals and stuff to protect from evil spirits.) Well, really its not completely harmless, but it doesn’t bother me as much as Religious institutions that get rich off the congregation and pressure lawmakers to advance their crazy agendas based upon ancient (or in some cases just old) teachings that are supposed to come from some dude who lives in the clouds or somewhere outside the universe.
Please don´t think that Elf School = DI…
For starters, noone listens to Magnús Skarphéðinsson, except for laughs! This school is just so he can gain more publicity (and money from gullible people).
Elves and hidden people are more a part of the Icelandic folklore than they are religion. People might jokingly talk about hidden people causing trouble, but I don´t know of anyone who seriously believes in them.
P.S. Those who are thinking about travelling to Iceland, GO NOW. It´s only half as costly as it was a year ago, you will love it (and we need your money!).
I can understand where the Icelanders are coming from. As a Scotsman, I believe in the Loch Ness Monster, but as a sceptical scientist I know there is no such damn thing.
*Looks up Magnus Scheving*
Ooooh, you mean “Sportacus.”
Best thing that ever happened to children’s daytime television.
Katrina @ 117
You’re not kidding- I call “Lazytown” the “something for mummy show”. The kids get to enjoy the cartoonish action and Mummy gets to watch Magnus in his tight lycra outfit doing all sorts of limbering, muscle-popping, mummy-tongue-lolling, antics.
I eat chocolate biscuits while I’m watching to complete the sensual experience.
Ooooh. I’ll have to try the biscuits next time.
Sadly, my littlest ones will be seven in a couple of weeks. Not sure how much longer it will be before I have to hope it’s on while they are at school.
Could we please see those one-handed handstand push-ups again, please?
John H @101 makes an interesting point. This is pretty much the same as the cultural and political trappings of Native Americans.
Take seriously any claim on artifacts or remains by any tribe, no matter how far fetched or distanced in time. Move a rock because it is owned by elves. Same thing.
Personally, the main thing which bothers me about this thread is all the hating on Björk and Sigur Rós.
#94:
It could be similar to the “Jedi census phenomenon”, whereby a large number of people in various countries have declared themselves to be Jedi believers in official censuses. It’s a laugh, innit?
Tis Himself @ 82,
Be careful, they might want to enroll in the Icelandic Elf School’s economics course ;-)
Ireland has it’s fair share of Fairy stories and it’s probable that many of the Icelandic stories derive from Irish ones.
We’ve also had development plans interrupted as a direct result of the fairies pernicious influence – a recent road project in Co. Clare had to be diverted around a fairy tree and a local storyteller even intimated that the deaths of an archaeologist and two construction workers on the site were due to a fairy curse…
I’ve come across housing developments where construction workers are too afraid to remove a fairy tree with stories of terrible consequences for those who have tried before, and housing developments where Iron Age enclosures have been left in situ for fear of disturbing the fairy folk.
The superstitions associated with ‘fairy forts’ and ‘fairy trees’ has resulted in the preservation of many prehistoric sites, which otherwise would have been ploughed out by farmers or destroyed by developers….
However, the past ten-twenty years have seen the end of these superstitions – replaced fortunately by draconian heritage legislation.
One more vote here for the fairy folk here.
The Abrahamic monotheistic religions have this in common with strip malls: they take a complex ecosystem (of beliefs in in the one case and small shops in the other) and replace it with an ugly, sprawling, charmless, one-stop monstrosity. I’m all for preserving older, complex, inefficient and charming cultural artifacts — that that includes used bookstores and quaint cultural traditions.
I don’t see why atheists need to be on the side of the monoculture bulldozer on this issue!
No wonder they’ve filed for bankrupcy.
A national program to boost vitamin D might do more than any economic bailout package could possibly ever do.
But seriously, after all the stalwart efforts of Icelanders to become science-oriented and energy-independent, working so hard to tap their geothermal resources and so on, yet having somehow managed to over-extend themselves? Did it really and truly require all that borrowing to make their dream come true? Now they’ve got themselves immediately into a nightmare. How come?
But when one sees something like this elf school – traditional baloney (however quaint and anthropologically interesting it may be) which not only utilizes those precious resources derived from science-driven technology but undoubtedly runs on at least some of the money Iceland has borrowed – it all begins to make much more sense. That’s what happens when people living on the edge even slightly begin to entertain superstition: they screw themselves.
Adequate vitamin D couldn’t push them into a significantly worse position in terms of insolvency. And it might help wake up some young blood that needs to rise up and take the reigns of leadership there.
#87
“You keep using that word “dimension”. It does not mean what you think it means.”
Parallel Universe, Mirror Universe, or The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics.
@#126
Yes, that’s exactly why Iceland is broke. We borrowed money to put into elf-schools. *eyeroll*
Or maybe, I dunno, the government looked the other way while bankers and multi-millionaires behaved completely unethically in order to make even more money, creating offshore desk-drawer companies to avoid paying taxes, trading these imaginary companies back and forth amongst themselves in order to create hype and drive up prices and “worth”, resulting in massive debt when the world finally realized that all this money doesn’t actually exist.
Nah, it’s probably the one slightly crazy guy who believes in elves.
Whoa, dude, you’re so blowing my mind! And like, what if all this is, like, in the Matrix? Or we’re just some dream of some super-alien squid thing? Hey, pass the Cheetos!
Be careful, they might want to enroll in the Icelandic Elf School’s ecognomeics course – Fernando Magyar
Fixed for you!
— “…a dearth of sources…”
“Dearth”??
Don’t you mean “plethora”? That is, as I would tend to say in everyday crude-speak, “a shitload”?
No, really, man, think about it: another dimension. See what I mean?
“dearth”
Yes, you did mean dearth. I just got confused by your use of the word “cites”.
Duhhh….
And what if the whole universe is, like, just one giant atom? Maaan!
Re: The Sasquach phenomenana has been around for thousands of years, it isn’t recent. And, the idea of giant hominids crunking in the redwoods is a lot more cozier with reason than
many other ideas.
As someone who went from believing in Zombie Jesus to literally believing in invisible faeries in her garden — more in a “they’re in the astral plane” kind of way rather than the “they’re just invisible” way, let me say that it’s really not that big of a jump. (I have always had a big imagination. But no, before you ask, I didn’t go so far as to believe in dragons, unicorns, etc. Somehow that was stretching it. :D)
Yes, you can giggle if you want. It was a natural progression towards atheism, and I still think the “there are faeries in my yard” ideology made me a better person than I ever was as a Godbot. Much better.
Let’s just be clear here, Icelandic elves have absolutely nothing in common with Victorian fairies, culturally and mythologically… about the only thing they have in common is that they don’t exist. I believe in accuracy in mocking.
“Elf” (“alf”, etc) is just a generic term for mythological beings.. poets sometimes even refered to gods as “elves”. In England it was commonly thought that illness was caused by “elfshot”… that is, you had been shot with an elf-arrow. A belief slightly less harmful that believing illness was caused by demons or witches (which could lead to your neighbours getting executed, or death by excorcism).
#135 Holydust
I totally agree that people who believe in faeries are way cooler than Christian fundamentalist. God bots are just plain scary while new age “spiritualist” are pretty harmless and and can be a lot of fun to be around. I rate them higher on the free thought scale than atheists like PZ.
The big difference between the Jesus people and the Iceland’s Elf People is this, in Iceland they were able to create a few ministries and a Elf consultants to keep the little people happy (and everyone else who “believes”). Done.
Ok, it is silly, but their solution works way better than ours,..
I’ll take the believers in Elves over the Jesus freaks any day. At least the elf loonies can be reasoned with, if you get my drift.
…about which you should learn a lot more. You still haven’t understood what a dimension is. You seem to believe that the idea that this spacetime has 11 or 26 dimensions is the same as the many-worlds interpretation; if so, you’re mistaken. Wikipedia is your friend.
(…Also, the many-worlds interpretation is completely unnecessary.)
Why?
Why do I rate them higher? Easy, they are more open-minded. I have a lot of respect for PZ and all scientist. I do think they can be somewhat rigid in their thinking when in comes to things that humans can’t easily comprehend.
I never heard of anyone threatening to kill another person, because they DIDN’T believe in elves and fairies, yet threats on those who don’t believe in “god” persist. I’ll happily live with the elves and fairies and those who believe in them any day rather than murderers.
It’s telling that their certificates can be earned in half a day. In my field, certifications that can be earned in half a day are called “worthless”.
I have spoken with and danced with both elves and faeries, twice. They live in small groups, in caves high in the Oakland hills, in places where the ocean-floor sedimentary rocks outcrop at the ridge tops and are shaded by groves of Bay Laurel trees. They come out to play when the strong sea breeze winds make the tree canopy sing for them.
They told me so.
Should I mention that I was quite pharmaceutically enhanced, both times? Magic indeed, those mushrooms.
just for clarification… it is not really an ” elfschool”
It´s a spiritsm-school. They are teaching about all aspects of the supernatural… elves, ghosts, aliens, folk lore and such. Does not make it any less crazy, but it does not have it´s origins in Iceland, even though it might dwell a bit more on elves than some countries.
Imaginationland
Such inacurate belief models are a danger to society and must be removd immediately
Hey im from Iceland & this is all true :)
Also here in iceland they say having a national church is protecting freedom of religion :)
Here is more on the hidden people :)
http://www.slate.com/id/2213353/?GT1=38001
Theologians make poor scientist. If you base everything you do on an outdated text, don’t be surprised when you sound like a raving lunatic.
Do I smell some imperialistic arrogance here? I am Icelandic, and an atheist and I feel obliged to straighten some things out here.
There is no state sponsored “Elf School” here in Iceland. Your referance is probably to a seminary held by Icelands foremost crackpot egomaniac. He has definently entered this Wikipedia article himself. This man actually has made it his merit to believe everything. Yes absolutely everything! UFO´s, Trolls, Elfs, Gods and demons. (not unlike a Catholic in that sense). He is in fact the only one of his kind here as far as I know.
Yes He is the elder brother of a former party leader, who does not share his views in any way.
Magnus is probaly not serious about anything, but he loves attention, that is for shure, and you are sertainly giving it to him.
There is no believe in elfs and gnomes here, that goes beyond what you have around christmas. Same with Santa. It is a funny notion with ties to our heritage. Stems from the time when such fables were universal.
Iceland is not a superstitious or religious country. Most people are openly atheists althoug many are registered into the state church from birth and have not bothered to change that.
Iceland is a modern society, with the highest rate of literacy in the world, last time I looked.
We have been unfortunate lately, because a gang of kleptocrats has run away with most of our temporary wealth. Maybe you find that funny, and it helps you feel better about your own situation. I have had the feeling you are in dire need for such consolation, since the precisely same thing is happening to you on a much grander scale.
I had and have some respect for you Mr. Mayers. At least as a science advocate, so I am fairly surprised to see you lay so low as to mock a nation in crisis, with fabled “truths”.
I hope your research in other fields of your interests goes beyond a google search, stopping at wikipedia. I urge you to take time off to educade your self in your subjects.
I guess you are just being funny and entertaining your readers, just as Magnus Skarphedinsson is in his own strange way. We also have our times of laughter when we make use of the “Elf thing” as a tourist trap, selling it to gullable American turists. In fact, it would not surprise me if the pupils of this alleged school would be primarly American, in full respect.
Anyhow a good laugh is always justifiable if it doesn’t hurt anyone. This time I guess the laugh is on us.
Sorry for my broken english and typo’s
Anyhow…I have seen elves, so their exisance is no question.
They are annoying,tacky,unfashionale creatures from China. You see them in every other garden in the suburbs. They scare children and cause grinding irritations to others. Nothing supernatural about them. Nothing natural either, for that matter. I belive in their existance, but I can not worship them.
I wish they wouldn’t exist.
I have loved Iceland as far back as my childhood, and have always wanted to go there. Even though I am a senior, I still hope to get there. I still use the name of Bjork, combined with the name of my current husband. Bjork was the name of my deceased husband who actually was Swedish. Why do I have all these feelings about Iceland? I don’t know.
My parents came from the west coast of Ireland.
My father who loved history passed on stories of a connection with a northern island. Many of the western Irish had a mythology of “fairies” or little people. Could two North Atlantic islands have come up with the same, strange scenario separately? I feel there had to be an ancient connection.
A familiar joke in Ireland is of an American asking a native Irisher if he really believed in “fairies,” or little people. The Irisher replied “Of course not, but they are there.”
Some people tell a story of Scandinavians invading Ireland and taking captive wives. Ireland had no history of such an event.
Some scientists are now beginning to believe in genetic memory. One of my western Irish cousins, a beautiful young woman, six foot three tall, with red hair and hazel eyes attended a business seminar in Iceland. She was amazed to find that most of the foreignors attending, along with some of the Icelanders, assumed she was an Icelander.
Born in New York City, I also wonder at my love of the sea and peaceful places which just seemed to be inbred from my earliest childhood memories. I felt so out of place where I was and just longed for the sea and a peaceful place. Where does that come from?
I think we inherit much more than we think we do and science is just beginning to plumb the depths of our psyches. It is possible we also inherit a memory of God and the universe.
In the meantime God Bless little Iceland and also little Ireland. The two islands area so unique amd in trouble at present. We really need both of them to survive and survive well.
God Bless
Mary Bjork Clogston
And that’s where Mary went on a trip to la la land.