I have a relative who, despite a distinguished career in the biosciences at a prominent university (and not being at all religious), does not see creationism as a threat.
Any suggestions for how to get through his apparently non-rational block about this?
Creationism is not a threat…no more than The Celestine Prophecy, Shirly McLane or The Pschic Friends Network is a threat.
It’s just silly hogwash.
The threat comes from those who would erode the instruction of science by insisting that philosophy/comparitive relgion topics be accorded the same degree of scientific weight absent any evidence whatsoever.
Winning this war requires that we allow the f***wits to believe whatever the hell they want, to teach their children whatever the hell they want. zIt’s a question of resource allocation and managing the battlefield effectively.
Do not waste time drawing the line around truth.
Do not waste effort trying to convince them that we’re right and they are wrong. Fuck ’em…they’re already theists and likely beyond reach.
Satisfy yourself drawing the line at the SCIENCE classroom/lab door. That’s enough.
David Marjanović, OMsays
This right wing talk show host annoys me even more than you guys — and he is holding a poll for his radio audiance right now. Dori Monson’s Poll [link]
Wow! That’s the second time ever that I see IE7 crash! But it crashes reproducibly when I click on this link. What’s going on over there, pop-up hell?
Manufacturing evidence, even if re-creating it, is really low.
It was quite clearly intended as a joke, as parody — and then Poe’s Law struck.
A bit sharper looking than the last announcement, PZ. I wish I could hear your talk in person. I hope that you will be able to post a copy of the talk where the likes of me can read it after the fact.
Peace…SH
Tomsays
Actually, in contract to Rik #8, I like the flyer. And I’m intrigued by the background–Morris has a much more impressive skyline than I would have guessed. [Apologies for the unintentional plagiarism if somebody’s made this joke before.]
Creationism is not a threat…no more than The Celestine Prophecy, Shirly McLane or The Pschic Friends Network is a threat.
Muh… maybe you’re misunderstanding me.
I’m not feeling threatened by the God of creationism hisself, fire and/or brimstone notwithstanding; I’m concerned about “those who would erode the instruction of science by insisting that philosophy/comparative relgion topics be accorded the same degree of scientific weight absent any evidence whatsoever.” — which is what I’m referring to as “creationism”, although creationism itself does seem to be part of a larger strategy to render future Americans ignorant and religion-bound (fit serfs for the new feudalism).
Also, please note that the particular person I’m talking about is not religious, not a creationist, and is a respected scientist in a bio-related field — which is why I am so completely baffled at his stance.
The main thing I’ve been able to determine is that he doesn’t at all see the threat posed by the religious right (or indeed the right in general); he seems to view this election, and the recent political shenanigans in general, as some kind of entertainment or sporting event (in which he perhaps has some side bets, upping the stakes just a little bit).
My theory is that his “evil meter” is pegged at 10, when the evil actually goes up to 1100.
Hey everyone, here are a few details about the AHA event:
No tickets are required, the event is free.
We’re working on getting a video camera reserved for the event, and we can post the details online.
Our website is defunct at the moment, I started building something simple (no php, or databases on UW club sites, curses!) but now I hear we are getting some devoted webspace, so there will be a new, more featured site going up soon.
And unfortunately, even though I’m a member of AHA, I can’t go, because I’ll be going on a trip to Cornell as part of my grad school program! Otherwise I would be the one behind the camera, probably.
O hai. I will see if the person who has the sign will change the images to real images.
steve_hsays
Glug, glug.
That’s the Gerkin / Swiss RE / 30 St. Mary Axe in the background.
I remember the old days when people used to establish that they were in London with a shot of some big churchy thing or other; or the openy bridgy thing; or a statue of a one-eyed guy covered in pidgeon crap. Now it’s always the Gerkin, and I decided ages ago to take two swigs of whatever I was drinking each time I saw it. Big mistake. *Hic*.
Steve_hsays
Rats! Gherkin! Who swapped the post and preview buttons around again?
nobodysays
Hm. A “science” talk, sponsored most self-consciously by a group of atheists and sympathizers.
Hey, just a word of thanks for titling the image “flyer” not “ad”. No hassles with adblock, as there were with that pink lightning one :)
B. Diassays
That flyer looks much better designed than the previous one, in spite of the lack of crimson lightning.
Although the layout could use a better foundation. And they should’ve been more careful cropping that photograph.
info_dumpsays
I say again, is that the only photograph anyone has ever taken of PZ? I don’t think I’ve ever seen another one.
Not that I’ve done much searching.
BobCsays
Will there be a YouTube video of PZ’s speech in Madison? I hope so. This is a favorite subject of mine.
I have heard that thanks to America’s out of control religious extremists many biology teachers skip evolution to avoid threats and harassment. I also noticed in my 1964-1965 public high school biology class (in a wealthy Chicago suburb) the word ‘evolution’ was never mentioned, and nobody complained about it. I would have complained, but after 8 years of Catholic grammar school I didn’t know what evolution was, and I never heard the word ‘evolution’ mentioned by anyone until long after I graduated from high school. I feel like I was cheated and I bet thousands of other American students are still learning next to nothing about evolutionary biology, which in my opinion is the most interesting branch of science.
Hm. A “science” talk, sponsored most self-consciously by a group of atheists and sympathizers.
Nope. No agenda here. “Science is as it is.”
Like hell.
Lose some weight, Little Paul.
Jesus. Who farted?
JM Inc.says
Speaking of education being caught in the battle between religion and science, just in case anyone’s interested, the latest “Why do people laugh…” video is out. I love this chap.
Yeah, there are other pictures of me on the “About” page for this site. Thing is, people look at them and are appalled at their universal hideousness, and pick the least horrific of the bunch.
I’m thinking I need to have a session with an expert photographer who’s really good with photoshop. Maybe one of those boudoir photographers in the yellow pages?
DrFranksays
Personally, I think PZ should default to the photo of him sitting on the octopus throne.
DrBadgersays
I’ll be there (though I could bring more people if you get your boudoir photo on the flyer).
I believe that chuch sign is for real alright. It sums it up comprehensively and right to the irrational point. And yet, how many of the morons actually and strictly adhere to that bullshit? A train leaves Chicago for Milwaukee at 9:30 AM. The religionist says that jeebus will hold the train for me at 9:45, and when he gets to the platform there is no train. Hey, what the fuck? Ignore the evidence indeed. Morons.
FINALLY, taking a job in Wisconsin pays off. It’s about an hour from here, so I’ll definitely be there.
Mark A. Siefertsays
Gah! I wish I could go, but I work until 6 p.m., Madison is over an hour’s drive away, and that’s the same night my friend is having his bachelor party.
Steve R.says
For those disappointed that the church sign is a fake, here’s a real one I saw the other day. It said “REJECT FALSE PROMISES, SEEK THE TRUTH.”
My irony meter exploded, and I was laughing so hard I almost wrecked my car.
Hey everyone, I thought I would chime in again and give some more info about videotaping the event. As I posted above, I was expecting not to be in town during the lecture. Well something else also came up and I can’t make the trip to NY. The good thing is, that means I can personally oversee the videotaping and youtoobing of PZ’s lecture. It should be available within a few days, as I will have to go back on campus to transfer the footage to an electronic form before editing and posting it.
joshsays
I never realised your main page photo was taken in London. I have no reason why that is interesting. In my defence, N2 fills are unbeleivably dull.
famulussays
My dear Dr. Myers, as I’m sure you’ve already heard from expatriate Badgers, when visiting the University of Wisconsin-Madison, the *only* place to go for post-babbling beverages is the Rathskeller at the Memorial Union. And I can say, it promises to be a lovely evening to consume a local brew on the Terrace. (I assume you’ll be surrounded by hosts and hangers-on who have the requisite university ID to procure foamy beverages.) Of course, there will be bands blaring, so that’s not the place for a quiet chat – for that, you may need need to walk up State Street, hang a right on Frances St (past State St. Brats), and go to Porta Bella’s. The wine cellar is usually reasonably talkable – or it may be, until this season’s crop of students discover that it’s hip. But since you’ll be on the west side of campus, Lombardino’s may be more convenient – kitschy, but you should be able to hear yourself think there. Barriques on Monroe St. is smaller, quiet, and classier – but alas, only wonderful wine and excellent coffee served there.
Oh, and be prepared for construction and disarray. That whole part of campus is covered in cranes and rentafences while we renovate roads and build our new Wisconsin Institutes for Discovery. Yes, that’s what they called it. No relation, trust me. Plan ahead for construction delays if you’re driving. (Hope you went for the “hosts chaperone speaker” option!)
Too bad I’m over at UW – Parkside instead of UW- Madison. I’d like to go, but it’s a little too long distance for me.
Poe’s law again:
Is that church sign real or not? I honestly can’t tell.
Would be very nice if someone would video that for us tied-down types.
hint hint
Ignore the evidence? Are they really serious?
http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/
No that sign is not real. They have the exact sign template that you can make it say whatever you want
This right wing talk show host annoys me even more than you guys — and he is holding a poll for his radio audiance right now. Dori Monson’s Poll
So why are you in my hometown & not my current residence? :P Ah well, if we get another hurricane I may fly home.
I don’t like the picture of PZ on this poster. No offense, PZ, I just don’t like that particular picture.
Also there’s not enough flashy light effects and stuff on this poster.
This right wing talk show host annoys me even more than you guys — and he is holding a poll for his radio audiance right now. Dori Monson’s Poll
Flyer. It’s a flyer, not a poster. Oh, who cares.
Thanks, Gizmo. Manufacturing evidence, even if re-creating it, is really low.
AHA! needs to update their website. I can’t tell if I’ll need tickets or not.
I wish I lived closer. I’d love to attend this.
PZ, will it be videotaped and made available on Pharyngula at some later point?
I have a relative who, despite a distinguished career in the biosciences at a prominent university (and not being at all religious), does not see creationism as a threat.
Any suggestions for how to get through his apparently non-rational block about this?
Creationism is not a threat…no more than The Celestine Prophecy, Shirly McLane or The Pschic Friends Network is a threat.
It’s just silly hogwash.
The threat comes from those who would erode the instruction of science by insisting that philosophy/comparitive relgion topics be accorded the same degree of scientific weight absent any evidence whatsoever.
Winning this war requires that we allow the f***wits to believe whatever the hell they want, to teach their children whatever the hell they want. zIt’s a question of resource allocation and managing the battlefield effectively.
Do not waste time drawing the line around truth.
Do not waste effort trying to convince them that we’re right and they are wrong. Fuck ’em…they’re already theists and likely beyond reach.
Satisfy yourself drawing the line at the SCIENCE classroom/lab door. That’s enough.
Wow! That’s the second time ever that I see IE7 crash! But it crashes reproducibly when I click on this link. What’s going on over there, pop-up hell?
It was quite clearly intended as a joke, as parody — and then Poe’s Law struck.
A bit sharper looking than the last announcement, PZ. I wish I could hear your talk in person. I hope that you will be able to post a copy of the talk where the likes of me can read it after the fact.
Peace…SH
Actually, in contract to Rik #8, I like the flyer. And I’m intrigued by the background–Morris has a much more impressive skyline than I would have guessed. [Apologies for the unintentional plagiarism if somebody’s made this joke before.]
Rik Sez:
“I don’t like the picture of PZ on this poster. No offense, PZ, I just don’t like that particular picture.”
Yeah, but it’s a great skyline of the greatest city in the world (ok, I’m biased, I live there)
You live in Oshkosh, Wisconsin?
Are the people real?
Now *that’s* some proper typography. The sponsor here has their act together.
#15:
Muh… maybe you’re misunderstanding me.
I’m not feeling threatened by the God of creationism hisself, fire and/or brimstone notwithstanding; I’m concerned about “those who would erode the instruction of science by insisting that philosophy/comparative relgion topics be accorded the same degree of scientific weight absent any evidence whatsoever.” — which is what I’m referring to as “creationism”, although creationism itself does seem to be part of a larger strategy to render future Americans ignorant and religion-bound (fit serfs for the new feudalism).
Also, please note that the particular person I’m talking about is not religious, not a creationist, and is a respected scientist in a bio-related field — which is why I am so completely baffled at his stance.
The main thing I’ve been able to determine is that he doesn’t at all see the threat posed by the religious right (or indeed the right in general); he seems to view this election, and the recent political shenanigans in general, as some kind of entertainment or sporting event (in which he perhaps has some side bets, upping the stakes just a little bit).
My theory is that his “evil meter” is pegged at 10, when the evil actually goes up to 1100.
JoJo sez:
“You live in Oshkosh, Wisconsin?”
I sometimes hang awake a night dreaming I lived in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
[P.S. How do I do the really cool quoting thing?]
Hey everyone, here are a few details about the AHA event:
No tickets are required, the event is free.
We’re working on getting a video camera reserved for the event, and we can post the details online.
Our website is defunct at the moment, I started building something simple (no php, or databases on UW club sites, curses!) but now I hear we are getting some devoted webspace, so there will be a new, more featured site going up soon.
And unfortunately, even though I’m a member of AHA, I can’t go, because I’ll be going on a trip to Cornell as part of my grad school program! Otherwise I would be the one behind the camera, probably.
Why do I only see a white obshort square?
Type
at the end. I leave it as an exercise to the student as to how I managed to display an HTML command without it functioning as an HTML command.
Not with that skyline. JoJo needs to get out more.
[P.S. How do I do the really cool quoting thing?]
<blockquote></blockquote>
Damn, hoist by my own petard. That should be “type <blockquote> in front of the quote and </blockquote> at the end.
freelunch,
As it happens, I’ve spent several months in London. I do recognize the skyline and the bridge.
Really?
There’s just no escape.
…
Of course, if Oshkosh wanted to emulate the skyline, they would make a gherkin water-tower.
O hai. I will see if the person who has the sign will change the images to real images.
Glug, glug.
That’s the Gerkin / Swiss RE / 30 St. Mary Axe in the background.
I remember the old days when people used to establish that they were in London with a shot of some big churchy thing or other; or the openy bridgy thing; or a statue of a one-eyed guy covered in pidgeon crap. Now it’s always the Gerkin, and I decided ages ago to take two swigs of whatever I was drinking each time I saw it. Big mistake. *Hic*.
Rats! Gherkin! Who swapped the post and preview buttons around again?
Hm. A “science” talk, sponsored most self-consciously by a group of atheists and sympathizers.
Nope. No agenda here. “Science is as it is.”
Like hell.
Lose some weight, Little Paul.
Nobody, if you wish to be a hypocrite please do so on the John Stewart post. Then at least we’ll get some irony out of your posts.
Hey, just a word of thanks for titling the image “flyer” not “ad”. No hassles with adblock, as there were with that pink lightning one :)
That flyer looks much better designed than the previous one, in spite of the lack of crimson lightning.
Although the layout could use a better foundation. And they should’ve been more careful cropping that photograph.
I say again, is that the only photograph anyone has ever taken of PZ? I don’t think I’ve ever seen another one.
Not that I’ve done much searching.
Will there be a YouTube video of PZ’s speech in Madison? I hope so. This is a favorite subject of mine.
I have heard that thanks to America’s out of control religious extremists many biology teachers skip evolution to avoid threats and harassment. I also noticed in my 1964-1965 public high school biology class (in a wealthy Chicago suburb) the word ‘evolution’ was never mentioned, and nobody complained about it. I would have complained, but after 8 years of Catholic grammar school I didn’t know what evolution was, and I never heard the word ‘evolution’ mentioned by anyone until long after I graduated from high school. I feel like I was cheated and I bet thousands of other American students are still learning next to nothing about evolutionary biology, which in my opinion is the most interesting branch of science.
We want Video! We want Video!
Jesus. Who farted?
Speaking of education being caught in the battle between religion and science, just in case anyone’s interested, the latest “Why do people laugh…” video is out. I love this chap.
Yeah, there are other pictures of me on the “About” page for this site. Thing is, people look at them and are appalled at their universal hideousness, and pick the least horrific of the bunch.
I’m thinking I need to have a session with an expert photographer who’s really good with photoshop. Maybe one of those boudoir photographers in the yellow pages?
Personally, I think PZ should default to the photo of him sitting on the octopus throne.
I’ll be there (though I could bring more people if you get your boudoir photo on the flyer).
Maybe one of those boudoir photographers in the yellow pages?
With that in mind, here’s a comment-starter. What could we call a collection of ‘special’ PZ pictures?
GlamourShots! (with PZ)?
PZ Myers: The Pictorial?
PZ Exposed?
PZ After Hours?
PZ in a hot pink chemise! woot!
Oh wait. Maybe not.
How about a leather bustier and fishnets?
See you on the 19th!
And Oshkosh smells.
I believe that chuch sign is for real alright. It sums it up comprehensively and right to the irrational point. And yet, how many of the morons actually and strictly adhere to that bullshit? A train leaves Chicago for Milwaukee at 9:30 AM. The religionist says that jeebus will hold the train for me at 9:45, and when he gets to the platform there is no train. Hey, what the fuck? Ignore the evidence indeed. Morons.
Rev. BigDumbChimp wrote:
Nobody.
Ha ha ha. I’m so funny.
(Sorry!)
Hopefully I’ll be there too.
FINALLY, taking a job in Wisconsin pays off. It’s about an hour from here, so I’ll definitely be there.
Gah! I wish I could go, but I work until 6 p.m., Madison is over an hour’s drive away, and that’s the same night my friend is having his bachelor party.
For those disappointed that the church sign is a fake, here’s a real one I saw the other day. It said “REJECT FALSE PROMISES, SEEK THE TRUTH.”
My irony meter exploded, and I was laughing so hard I almost wrecked my car.
Hey everyone, I thought I would chime in again and give some more info about videotaping the event. As I posted above, I was expecting not to be in town during the lecture. Well something else also came up and I can’t make the trip to NY. The good thing is, that means I can personally oversee the videotaping and youtoobing of PZ’s lecture. It should be available within a few days, as I will have to go back on campus to transfer the footage to an electronic form before editing and posting it.
I never realised your main page photo was taken in London. I have no reason why that is interesting. In my defence, N2 fills are unbeleivably dull.
My dear Dr. Myers, as I’m sure you’ve already heard from expatriate Badgers, when visiting the University of Wisconsin-Madison, the *only* place to go for post-babbling beverages is the Rathskeller at the Memorial Union. And I can say, it promises to be a lovely evening to consume a local brew on the Terrace. (I assume you’ll be surrounded by hosts and hangers-on who have the requisite university ID to procure foamy beverages.) Of course, there will be bands blaring, so that’s not the place for a quiet chat – for that, you may need need to walk up State Street, hang a right on Frances St (past State St. Brats), and go to Porta Bella’s. The wine cellar is usually reasonably talkable – or it may be, until this season’s crop of students discover that it’s hip. But since you’ll be on the west side of campus, Lombardino’s may be more convenient – kitschy, but you should be able to hear yourself think there. Barriques on Monroe St. is smaller, quiet, and classier – but alas, only wonderful wine and excellent coffee served there.
Oh, and be prepared for construction and disarray. That whole part of campus is covered in cranes and rentafences while we renovate roads and build our new Wisconsin Institutes for Discovery. Yes, that’s what they called it. No relation, trust me. Plan ahead for construction delays if you’re driving. (Hope you went for the “hosts chaperone speaker” option!)
Have fun. I’ll be there, if possible.