1. Rayzer says


    I’d have to disagree with you about the Indian burial grounds analogy, there are many sites dedicated to protecting them but it’s not only for the archaeological value or just what’s there. Indeed, if we comb the press on the issue we are always told about the rich history of the grounds and the traditional significance that it holds for a particular tribe. Archaeologists, from what I understand, work together with the tribe to ensure that minimum damage is done to the site because they recognize and respect the deep significance it has for the aboriginal group. And we protect these sites because of the COLLECTIVE significance it has for the people even if we think they’re just bones. Similarly we shouldn’t desecrate the consecrated crackers because of the collective significance it has for the catholic people. If you want to desecrate crackers I can send you some ritz right now for all your desecrating pleasure, I’m sure no Catholics will be offended and you can get all your cracker desecrating jolly’s off that way. It seems that this would have the best consequences, because crackers get crushed and nobody gets offended. WIN WIN!

    The only thing Myers has done is pissed off a bunch of Catholics. He hasn’t shone light on anything! Of course Catholics would react by being very deeply offended. We don’t even need to desecrate holy crackers to make that inference. Hmm what if I go into a church and proceed to interrupt the speaker by laughing really loudly and burning crosses in the back row, I wonder if these church goers will react by being very offended.

    Finally I criticize theists through dialogue. Throughout this dialogue I remind them I’m not trying to offend them but I’m trying to figure out what they actually believe and what is true. I might present a few arguments to persuade them, it seems to have had better consequences in the long run. They might feel a little hurt that I’m critiquing them, but in the end we both agree that we have different positions than each other; it’s not entirely impossible to not deeply offend somebody by critiquing someone through rational argumentation. In fact, if you’re good enough at it you could make a new friend who you happily disagree with.

    *my response to damian will follow*

  2. John Morales says

    Rayzer blunt:

    Similarly we shouldn’t desecrate the consecrated crackers because of the collective significance it has for the catholic people.

    Well, since PZ never involved you, that hypothetical “we” will never desecrate the consecrated crackers.

    What you say shouldn’t happen won’t. Be happy.

  3. John Morales says

    The only thing Myers has done is pissed off a bunch of Catholics. He hasn’t shone light on anything!

    Cripes. This is the same Rayzer who claimed to aspire to intellectual modesty. Obviously intellectual honesty was too much to aspire to.

    Rayzer should be realistic and aspire to a modest intellect.

  4. Ray S. says

    The burial grounds are considered sacred because of the presence of bones.

    The crackers are considered sacred because of the presence of _________.

    Please fill in the blank Rayzer.

  5. MAJeff, OM says

    You have said you would not offend people from other religious groups this way

    You’re lying.

    Doesn’t it Jesus sad when you lie? Why do you want to upset him so?

  6. SEF says

    Or, to put it another way, Della, where’s your evidence that PZ(? the Paul in question) genuinely said what you claim he said (and don’t go relying on anything your fellow religious liars may have claimed, here or elsewhere, which you may have stupidly believed without checking the source for yourself because you’re an habitually lazy fool that way).

    Hint: there’s plenty of evidence of PZ not worrying about offending people from other religious groups and even going out of his way to offend them. NB The weasel-word excuse that those other religious groups wouldn’t be offended in this very specific way, ie by supposed desecration of crackers, won’t fly either. PZ probably wouldn’t be bothered if they showed some bogus solidarity with the Catholics and chose to take trade-union-style mock offence in case they can gain advantage for themselves out of it. It’s quite par for the course.

  7. Salman Rushdie says

    If you were brave you would desecrate the Quran and post the results. It’s only a freaking book…

    You could then compare and contrast how long it takes before you have to go into hiding, and how many people above would support this liberal act of free speech.

  8. Anna Karenina says

    I’m so sorry you all don’t understand. I really am. I want anyone who reads this to know that I am praying for them. I will not attempt to explain the importance of the Eucharist because you do not want to hear it. That’s all.

  9. John Morales says

    PZ, if I may quote you:

    Because performance all over scienceblogs starts to suffer when a comment thread gets too long…


  10. Rey Fox says

    “I want anyone who reads this to know that I am praying for them.”

    That’s nice, dearie.

  11. Wowbagger says

    Anna Karenina & Salman Rushdie:

    Try actually reading and understanding what’s inside the books you’ve glanced at the spines of and taken your names from and then get back to us. Perhaps then you’ll have attained the required cognitive skills to cope with what’s actually going on here.

    Because right now neither of you (if you aren’t the same person) have the faintest idea.

  12. George says

    Jesus is Lord and He loves you all, including the professor who started this blog and those who agree with him, yet even now He would forgive you. You may scoff and mock that, and for a time it seems safe to you to do so. But we are all going to die one day, and none of us know when. Though you may be convinced in your own mind that all is well, are you certain that you dont have a soul to lose? We’re talking about eternity. Do you want eternal happiness or eternal loss? God offers you eternal life and happiness. Jesus loves you all. Seek His mercy while you still can.

  13. Owlmirror says

    Hi there!

    Welcome to Pharyngula. A commenter will be with you shortly, with your order of snark, insult, cephalopod fetish, biological weirdness, random conversation, and/or intelligent discussion.

    Please note that our policies have changed: Pharyngula can no longer accept any complaints by proxy. If the Almighty and Perfect God wishes to complain about any alleged potential or actual mistreatment of any cracker into which he may or may not transubstantiate, he will have to do so in person, directly to the one performing this alleged mistreatment.

    Thank you, and have a great day!

  14. Wowbagger says

    George, whether you know it or not, what you speak of has a name – Pascal’s Wager. Look it up:'s_wager – there are some criticisms there.

    What if you have picked the wrong god? There’s a lot of them out there – are you sure you shouldn’t be worshiping Vishnu or Thor?

    If I’m wrong and there is a god, don’t you think he’s going to know that I was just believing in him out of fear rather than any genuine love/faith?

    Do you think any god loves suck-up cowards lacking the courage of their convictions?