As long as we’re dealing with rebuttals to criticism, Joe Carter has reacted to my previous rejection of his incoherent complaints. Don’t bother reading Carter, though, who is babbling and whining as usual…instead, just read this rebuttal to the rebuttal of my criticisms. Even if it is from a Christian (or especially since it is from a Christian, depending on the flavor of your biases).
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
A very good article. A couple of amusing bits from the comments below it:
“I don’t understand where people get this idea that they can argue science with mere words.”
Is not that exactly whatt religion does, using the “good” book as source?
“If he could possibly present anti-creationist arguments without the vitriol (which in my mind stems from an outright hatred of God and anyone who might believe in Him) then his would indeed become a “very good” blog.”
Which raises the question, how can you hate God if you don’t believe he exists?
Same way I can hate unicorns. Damn them!
This is the money quote: “Until ID can produce at least the quantity and quality of research that cold fusion has already produced, ID doesn’t deserve to be given the credence in biology that cold fusion is given in physics.”
That about sums it up.
“Every dime spent to advocate ID over evolution is a dime spent against a cure for cancer. Every minute spent advocating ID over evolution before a state school board is a minute spent advocating ignorance.”
As long as we are quoting the whole article, this sounds like everything PZ has ever asked for out of the religious –
Bathtub:We have a duty to other people to stick to the truth. We have a duty to the integrity of the church not to advocate untruth in the church’s name. We have a duty to God to get the facts right.
Duty to other people. Okay.
Duty to church and God? No.
I stopped reading the Evangelical Outpost after Joe banned Larry Lord from commenting. Larry Lord was hilarious. Joe Carter is pathetic and (of course) a lying sack of shit.
I hate Balrogs!
Speaking of evangelical liars, check out Lying Hannah Maxson’s assessment of Allen McNeill’s Kornell Kreationism Kourse. You will remember that Allen assured everyone at Panda’s Thumb that the course would include a balanced discussion of “intelligent design”. Was Allen right about that?
Here’s Hannah:
Who are you challenging as “spinning” the course? We’re not part of the political ID/evo battle and not interested in the “who won?” mentality you all seem to think necessary. We’re at college, afterall, and like thinking about and debating interesting ideas- even politically incorrect ones. We had fun, came to clarity on a great many issues, and I think can say unequivocally that “our experiment” worked.
A couple comments. Hannah is president of the Kornell IDEA Klub. ID is a political movement. The terms of the “experiment” Hannah refers to were never articulated and any commenters who questioned Hannah’s “methods” were immediately banned from posting. Some experiment!
Ivy- Coverage here was uneven, but we never did discuss Kitzmiller in class. It sort of went the way of Wedge of Truth, I think… afterall, who cares about reading commentary from a random judge when debating the actual arguments themselves is so much more interesting
They may be more interesting to Hannah but that’s because the last thing that Hannah wants to talk about is her habit of lying and obfuscating and refusing to admit basic facts about the ID movement.
The real question is: what the fuck is the deal with Allen McNeill and why does he insist on coddling this lying bitch Hannah Maxson?
GWW:
Why don’t you try sending a request for an explanation from McNeill that doesn’t involve words like ‘fuck’ or ‘bitch’? Then, if the professor replies, you could dissect his response?
I don’t mean to be flippant. I just don’t see how science education (and, especially, the defense of evolution) is helped by using a gratuitous and demeaning expression aimed at Maxson’s gender.
Sincerely…Scott
Why don’t you try sending a request for an explanation from McNeill that doesn’t involve words like ‘fuck’ or ‘bitch’? Then, if the professor replies, you could dissect his response?
Oh, Allen was asked similar questions in a very kind and courteous manner probably dozens of times. He is not interested in responding. For whatever reason — and we can only guess — he is interested in showing that ID peddlers and “scientists” (including very proud ones like himself) can “debate the issues” in a “civilized manner.” The problem for Allen and Hannah is that in order to achieve this goal they had to sanitize their own website and avoid discussing the issues that made Hannah look like the propaganda spewing mouthpiece for fundamentalist garbage that she is. Some “experiment” huh?
I don’t mean to be flippant. I just don’t see how science education (and, especially, the defense of evolution) is helped by using a gratuitous and demeaning expression aimed at Maxson’s gender.
Fine. Substitute “asshole” for “bitch” if that makes you feel better. The woman has all the usual “issues” associated with the peddlers. Pretending that lying scumbags are something other than lying scumbags doesn’t help science education either, as you surely know.
What has Allen McNeill done to help science education lately? That’s an interesting question.
Between McNeill, the IDEA Club, and the freaks at the Ornithology Lab promoting the Ivory Billed Woodpecker hoax, Kornell seems to be swirling downward, if you get my drift …
GWW is still a stupid ass, I see.
George, Christians have a duty to God to find and spread the truth, as well as a duty to other people. And, if Christians are serious about leading non-believers to the church through their examples of clean, upright living and dealing, then they have a duty to the church to tell the truth, too.
Atheists? No, there’s no duty to God or church.
My point is that the very things creationists claim to be protecting by attacking Darwin and science are the things they give up in the attack, the things they damage.
Perhaps I was too gentle. I’m trying to point out the hypocrisy of Christians who support creationism in any or all of its guises. I hoped to put it in terms Christians will understand quickly and easily.
The duty to other people you note is a powerful idea. I try never to forget that Confucius formulated the idea of acting toward other people as we would have them act toward us, first, several hundred years before Jesus is said to originated it. For that matter, Hill-el was preaching that doctrine shortly before Jesus was born, and for some years after. It’s an idea that works for believers and non-believers well, especially in making social interaction productive and pleasant. The Code of Hammurabi stressed honesty in business dealings. Honesty toward others in all things is an ancient standard of virtue.
Why don’t the creationists get it?
Bres Mac Eletha is still a retarded dipshit, I see.
Fun game, Bres! Your turn.
GWW:
Weren’t you banned from PT (and justifiably so) for your vacuity and idiosyncratic meanness?
Weren’t you banned from PT (and justifiably so) for your vacuity and idiosyncratic meanness?
No, I was banned because I used the word “fellating” to describe a reporter’s coddling of Phil Johnson. Shocking, huh?
If you look at my posts in the archives of PT you’ll see that I posted as much of substance there as any of the contributors. In particular, I posted quite a bit of news stories relating to religious dumbshittery and dutifully documented the media’s treatment of the controversy.
PT is run by a star chamber which includes a few politically naive folks who — for whatever reason — are afraid to take the Discovery Institute on “man to man”. It has actually gotten a lot BETTER since I left. For example, Ed Brayton used to brag about his alleged “civility” all the time and get on my case for calling Casey Luskin et al. scumbags or liars. Now, more recently, he appears to have “seen the light.” What the fuck took Brayton so long? Got me.
I think there were — and perhaps are — some folks still associated with PT who really look at the “ID controversy” as a bit of rhetorical fun and games, ideally played in the ivory tower over a glass of cognac and a fine cigar. That is certainly how Allen McNeill appears to perceive things. He essentially admitted over at the Kornell Kreationism Blog that his version of “civility” is more important than truth and forthrightness.
The level of political naiveity exhibited by the folks running PT is declining, but still palpable. They just don’t understand that the ID movement is really driven by a relatively small number of identifiable PEOPLE whose power may be diminished in any number of ways. The least effective way to diminish that power, of course, is to attempt to address their bizarre convoluted version of “science” and “math” over and over and over again without mentioning (as PZ is careful to always mention) the fact that these people are despicable lying idiots trying to promote their fucked up religion.
Anyway, “Bres” this is just another “vacuous” comment for you to suck on. Try not to choke, asshole.
Don’t you mean gag.
Oh snap!
GWW:
You are definitely a choleric bitch. I suggest getting out more.
You are definitely a choleric bitch.
Where’s Scott Hatfield to clean up this mess? ;)
Would that be the same Scott Hatfield who does not know what stochastic means?