Atheist News by Edwin Kagin

KENTUCKY ATHEISTS NEWS & NOTES Date: February 08, 2008


Kentucky Atheists, P.O. Box 48, Union, KY 41091; Email: ekagin@atheists.org

Phone: (859) 384-7000; Fax: (859) 384-7324; Web: http://www.atheists.org/ky/

Editor’s personal web site: www.edwinkagin.com

Editor’s personal blog: http://edwinkagin.blogspot.com

Edited by:

Edwin Kagin, Kentucky State Director, American Atheists, Inc.

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

I WAS BORN AN ATHEIST JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

To Unidentified Recipients:

AMERICAN ATHEISTS SPEAKERS BUREAU

http://www.atheists.org/speakers

KAGIN TO SPEAK ON “AMERICAN RELIGIOUS CIVIL WAR,” SECULAR HUMANISTS OF THE LOW COUNTRY MEETING ~ SUNDAY, FEB. 17, 2008

“The ARCW has already been started by the superstitious. They call it a ‘civil war of values.’ The shooting has already started. They call that ‘protecting innocent life.’ The purpose of the war is to overthrow science and constitutional democracy and replace them with the Bronze Age myths and laws of ancient Iraq that became preserved in a collection of writings known, in translation, as ‘The Holy Bible.’ They regard this undertaking as ‘bringing America back to God.’ Loyal Americans should regard it as treason…”

Edwin Kagin at the

Godless Americans March on Washington

EDWIN KAGIN, National Legal Director for American Atheists will be the guest speaker at the monthly meeting of the Secular Humanists of the Low Country (Charleston, SC) on Sunday, February 17, 2008.

Mr. Kagin will speak on “The American Religious Civil War (ARCW),” the confrontation between secular, Enlightenment-era democracy and authoritarian theocratic “Bible-based” government. He has been writing and speaking on this important topic since 1995 when he first proposed the paradigm of a cultural “civil war” coming to America.

Along with wife Helen, Edwin Kagin was a founding director of Camp Quest, a summer retreat for non-believing youngsters. In addition to his post as Legal Director for American Atheists, he serves on the board of the Secular Student Alliance. He ran prominently, albeit unsuccessfully, for the Kentucky Supreme Court (1998) and the Kentucky State Senate (2000). Much of his current legal work focuses on civil liberties, Atheist civil rights and the separation of church and state. Mr. and Mrs. Kagin also host the popular new internet radio program “Answers in Atheism” (http://www.answersinatheism.net).

The meeting will take place on Sunday, February 17, 2008 at 4:00 PM at Gage Hall, 4 Archdale St. in Charleston, S.C. For further information, visit the SHLC web site at http://lowcountry.humanists.net/default.php or contact smoskow@knology.net (Sam Moskow, President) or kasmansc@comcast.net (Alex Kasman, Newsletter).

WHO & WHAT: Edwin Kagin, National Legal Director for American Atheists speaking on “The American Religious Civil War” at Secular Humanists of the Low Country monthly meeting.

WHEN: Sunday, February 17, 2008, 4:00 PM.

WHERE: Gage Hall, 4 Archdale St., Charleston, SC.

MORE INFO: http://lowcountry.humanists.net/default.php or contact smoskow@knology.net (Sam Moskow, President) or kasmansc@comcast.net (Alex Kasman, Newsletter). Also, http://www.edwin kagin.com .

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

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“Answers in Atheism,” the soon to be award winning Internet radio call-in talk show that is family friendly and clothing optional, is pleased to announce that…..

Our guest for our “Darwin Day Show,” Thursday, February 14th, 2008 (drum roll please) will be Charles Darwin.

Richard Milner is an anthropologist / songwriter / performer. He performs his show “Charles Darwin Live in Concert” as Charles Darwin. Our producers, John and Fran Welte, have excitedly reported that Richard will be doing our show on Feb. 14. We will interview Richard as himself first. We can ask about his books and his performances. Then, when we ask a pointed question about evolution, he may well say, “Why don’t you ask Mr. Darwin? He just came in.” He just might then do the rest of the show as Darwin.

You can find out more about Richard Milner on his website. http://www.darwinlive.com/

And yes, we do know that Darwin’s birthday is February 12th, so save your corrective rant. We also know that February 12th is the birthday of Abraham Lincoln, and of Bruno, our English Mastiff and retired Mascot of Camp Quest. And yes, we know that February 14th is Valentine’s Day (don’t tell my Helen—she doesn’t read these things—but I am getting her a burka).

You can access the show at www.answersinatheism.net

Oh, yes, earlier shows are (should be—this is not a precise science) archived for your listening pleasure at www.answersinatheism.net

See you on the radio.

Edwin.

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Creationists Seek Foothold in Europe

By GREGORY KATZ, AP

LONDON (Feb. 9) – After the Sunday service in Westminster Chapel, where worshippers were exhorted to wage “the culture war” in the World War II spirit of Sir Winston Churchill, cabbie James McLean delivered his verdict on Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

“Evolution is a lie, and it’s being taught in schools as fact, and it’s leading our kids in the wrong direction,” said McLean, chatting outside the chapel. “But now people like Ken Ham are tearing evolution to pieces.”

Ken Ham is the founder of Answers in Genesis, a Kentucky-based organization that is part of an ambitious effort to bring creationist theory to Britain and the rest of Europe. McLean is one of a growing number of evangelicals embracing that message – that the true history of the Earth is told in the Bible, not Darwin’s “The Origin of Species.”

Europeans have long viewed the conflict between evolutionists and creationists as primarily an American phenomenon, but it has recently jumped the Atlantic Ocean with skirmishes in Italy, Germany, Poland and, notably, Britain, where Darwin was born and where he published his 1859 classic.

Darwin’s defenders are fighting back. In October, the 47-nation Council of Europe, a human rights watchdog, condemned all attempts to bring creationism into Europe’s schools. Bible-based theories and “religious dogma” threaten to undercut sound educational practices, it charged.

Schools are increasingly a focal point in this battle for hearts and minds. A British branch of Answers in Genesis, which shares a Web site with its American counterpart, has managed to introduce its creationist point of view into science classes at a number of state-supported schools in Britain, said Monty White, the group’s chief executive.

“We do go into the schools about 10 to 20 times a year and we do get the students to question what they’re being taught about evolution,” said White, who founded the British branch seven years ago. “And we leave them a box of books for the library.”

Creationism is still a marginal issue here compared with its impact on cultural and political debate in the United States. But the budding fervor is part of a growing embrace of evangelical worship throughout much of Europe. Evangelicals say their ranks are swelling as attendance at traditional churches declines because of revulsion with the hedonism and materialism of modern society.

“People are looking for spirituality,” White said in an interview at his office in Leicester, 90 miles north of London. “I think they are fed up with not finding true happiness. They find having a bigger car doesn’t make them happy. They get drunk and the next morning they have a hangover. They take drugs but the drugs wear off. But what they find with Christianity is lasting.”

Other British organizations have joined the crusade. A group called Truth in Science has sent thousands of unsolicited DVDs to every high school in Britain arguing that mankind is the result of “intelligent design,” not Darwinian evolution.

In addition, the AH Trust, a charity, has announced plans to raise money for construction of a Christian theme park in northwest England with a 5,000-seat television studio that would be used for the production of Christian-oriented films. And several TV stations are devoted full-time to Christian themes.

All this activity has lifted spirits at the Westminster Chapel, a 165-year-old evangelical church that is not affiliated with nearby Westminster Abbey, where Darwin is buried.

In the chapel, Rev. Greg Haslam tells the 150 believers that they are in a conflict with secularism that can only be won if they heed Churchill’s exhortation and never, ever give up.

“The first thing you have to do is realize we are in a war, and identify the enemy, and learn how to defeat the enemy,” he said.

There is a sense inside the chapel that Christian evangelicals are successfully resisting a trend toward a completely secular Britain.

“People have walked away from God; it’s not fashionable,” said congregant Chris Mullins, a civil servant. “But the evangelical church does seem to be growing and I’m very encouraged by that. In what is a very secular society, there are people returning to God.”

School curricula generally hold that Darwin’s theory has been backed up by so many scientific discoveries that it can now be regarded as fact. But Mullins believes creationism also deserves a hearing in the classroom.

“Looking at the evidence, creationism at the least seems a theory worthy of examination,” he said. “Personally I think it is true and I think the truth will win out eventually. It’s a question of how long it takes.”

Terry Sanderson, president of Britain’s National Secular Society, a prominent group founded in 1866 to limit the influence of religious leaders, fears the groups advocating a literal interpretation of the Bible are making headway.

“Creationism is creeping into the schools,” he said. “There is a constant pressure to get these ideas into the schools.”

The trend goes beyond evangelical Christianity. Sanderson said the British government is taking over funding of about 100 Islamic schools even though they teach the Quranic version of creationism. He said the government fear imposing evolution theory on the curriculum lest it be branded as anti-Islamic.

The Council of Europe spoke up last fall after Harun Yahya, a prominent Muslim creationist in Turkey, tried to place his lavishly produced 600-page book, “The Atlas of Creation,” in public schools in France, Switzerland, Belgium and Spain.

“These trends are very dangerous,” said Anne Brasseur, author of the Council of Europe report, in an interview.

Brasseur said recent skirmishes in Italy and Germany illustrate the creationists’ tactics. She said Italian schools were ordered to stop teaching evolution when Silvio Berlusconi was prime minister, although the edict seems to have had little impact in practice. In Germany, she said, a state education minister briefly allowed creationism to be taught in biology class.

The rupture between theology and evolution in Europe is relatively recent. For many years people who held evangelical views also endorsed mainstream scientific theory, said Simon Barrow, co-director of Ekklesia, a British-based, Christian-oriented research group. He said the split was imported from the United States in the last decade.

“There is a lot of American influence, and there are a lot of moral and political and financial resources flowing from the United States to here,” he said. “Now you have more extreme religious groups trying to get a foothold.”

In some cases, the schools have become the battlegrounds. Richard Dawkins, the Oxford university biologist and author of last year’s international best-seller “The God Delusion, “frequently lectures students about the marvels of evolution only to find that the students’ views have already been shaped by the creationist lobby.

“I think it’s so sad that children should be fobbed off with these second-rate myths,” he said.

“The theory of evolution is one of the most powerful pieces of scientific thinking ever produced and the evidence for it is overwhelming. I think creationism is pernicious because if you don’t know much it sounds kind of plausible and it’s easy to come into schools and subvert children.”

White, the director of the British Answers in Genesis, is well aware that the group’s school program is contentious. The group has removed information about it from its Web site to avoid antagonizing people.

The group operates a warehouse with $150,000 worth of DVDs, books and comics promoting creationism, but he says he only sends speakers and materials into schools that invite Answers in Genesis to make a presentation.

White, 63, said he was raised as an atheist, and after earning a doctorate in chemistry, embraced evangelical Christianity in 1964.

He says that when he is asked to speak to science classes, he challenges the accuracy of radioactive dating which shows the world to be thousands of millions of years old and says that the Bible is a more accurate description of how mankind began. He personally believes the Earth is between 6,000 and 12,000 years old.

“Usually I find the discussion goes on science, science, and science and then when the lesson is finished one or two students say, ‘Can we talk about other things?’ and I sit down with them and usually they want to talk about Christianity,” he said. “They want to know, why do you believe in God? Why do you believe in the Bible? How can you be sure it’s the word of God?”

Dawkins feels the effect. He said he is discouraged when he visits schools and gets questions from students who have obviously been influenced by material from Answers in Genesis. “I continually get the same rather stupid points straight from their pamphlets,” he said.

White is getting ready for a visit by Ken Ham, who will preach at Westminster Chapel this spring. Meanwhile he is pleased that small groups of creation science advocates now meet regularly in Oxford, Edinburgh, Northampton and other British cities.

“The creation movement is certainly growing,” he said. “There are more groups than there were five years ago. There are more people like me going out speaking about it, and there’s more interest. You have these little groups forming all over the place.”

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

2008-02-09 19:37:25

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/creationists-seek-foothold-in-europe/20080209193709990001

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Review

Creation Museum founder’s book says Darwinism fuels racism

By Dylan T. Lovan
The Associated Press

Article Last Updated: 02/09/2008 07:25:05 AM MST

http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_8210102

What Darwinian evolution did, I would say, is provide what people thought was a scientific justification for separation of races.
KEN HAM, founder of Creation Museum

LOUISVILLE, Ky. – The founder of a popular Kentucky Christian museum that rejects evolution says in a new book that Darwin’s theory fuels racism and genocide.
Ken Ham, who opened the Creation Museum last year, and co-author Charles Ware, president of Crossroads Bible College in Indianapolis, have written Darwin’s Plantation: Evolution’s Racist Roots, arguing that the theory inspired the Nazi belief in racial superiority and the murderous policies of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin.
”What Darwinian evolution did, I would say, is provide what people thought was a scientific justification for separation of races,” Ham said in an interview.
Ham is not the first to try to tie Darwin with racism. The charge has been made for years.
It came up last month in arguments over science curriculum at a South Carolina state school board meeting. In 2001, Louisiana’s legislature considered a bill that said Darwin supported racist ideologies.
David L. Schultz, associate professor of biology at Nicholls State University in Louisiana, said Darwin was egalitarian and had a history of speaking out against slavery.
”Darwin was not a racist,” he said.
Ham runs the Christian group Answers in Genesis and has already made an impact with his $27 million high-tech museum in Petersburg, south of Cincinnati.
The complex has attracted more than 300,000 visitors with exhibits that treat the Bible’s creation story as natural history and contend that evolution theory is wrong because it contradicts the Old Testament. The Creation Museum asserts that the Earth is just a few thousand years old, dinosaurs coexisted with man and Adam and Eve were the first humans.
In the new book, Ham says that Darwin’s theory – that natural selection caused gradual biological changes over time – puts some races ”higher on the evolutionary scale” and others ”closer to the apes.”
”Although racism did not begin with Darwinism, Darwin did more than any person to popularize it,” Ham writes. He further contends that the theory fanned the flames of ”ethnic superiority.”
”Stalin, Hitler and Mao were responsible for the deaths of tens of millions – and it can be shown they did this because of the influence of Darwinian naturalism,” Ham writes.
Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, a California group that defends teaching evolution in public schools, said Hitler rarely mentioned evolution.
”Darwinian evolution is based on natural selection, which means that any population can adapt to its environment,” Scott said. ”The ironic thing for the creationists is that Hitler grounded Aryan superiority as a God-given quality.”
Ham said he came to the topic because he was upset by the unfair treatment of aboriginal tribes in his native Australia and the racism he saw in the United States when he arrived here in the 1970s. He said he experienced a backlash from some church groups after he wrote an article critical of biblical-based arguments against interracial marriage, which made him even more determined to tackle the issue.
”I got more what I would call hate mail from people, supposedly Christians in the church, than for any other article I’ve ever written,” Ham said. ”So to me I just had a real burden that I wanted to educate the church on this matter.”
But Schultz called the argument ”a ploy to get evolution out of the curriculum.”
”Of course everybody’s against teaching children racism, so if you call it racist, you can have it removed,” said Schultz. He testified before a Louisiana legislative panel that took up the bill that would have tied evolution with racism. The measure was eventually stripped of any reference to Darwin.
Ham said Answers in Genesis does not advocate teaching creationism in public schools.
In South Carolina, that state’s board of education approved a biology textbook that references evolution. One board member had argued that the scientific theory was used by Nazi Germany as an excuse to kill millions of people.

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From reader Frank:

Subject: Re: Prayer [“moment of silence”] in schools bill

Can’t we find a state legislator with the cojones to introduce
a bill requiring in our public schools a vastly more needed
moment of science instead of a moment of silence???

— Frank

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From reader Fred:

Edwin,

As a gun-toting atheist, you will find this story of great interest–if you haven’t seen it already.

— Fred



Subject: Minnesota Court Says Concealed-Carry Law Cannot Be Enforced Against Churches

Not covered by RLUIPA; churches can prevent cowboys from packing heat in churches / Bob

http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2008/02/minnesota-court-says-concealed-carry.html

Minnesota Court Says Concealed-Carry Law Cannot Be Enforced Against Churches

Yesterday in Edina Community Lutheran Church v. State of Minnesota, (MN Ct. App., Feb. 5, 2008), a Minnesota state appellate court upheld the objections of two churches to enforcement against them of the Minnesota Citizens’ Personal Protection Act of 2005. The law requires that before a church can refuse entry to someone carrying a firearm, it must post a specific sign at each entrance or personally inform each person that guns are prohibited. The law also prevents churches from banning guns in their parking lots and from prohibiting tenants from carrying guns on church property. The churches argued that the law’s requirements interfere with the churches’ belief in welcoming visitors, and prevent churches from limiting tenants’ use to those consistent with the churches’ commitment to nonviolence.

Invoking the state constitution’s freedom of conscience clause, the court held broadly that these requirements burden a church’s exercise of religious belief. It concluded that the state failed to show a compelling interest in enforcing the provisions against churches. It also held that the trial court’s grant of an injunction against enforcement of the law did not violate the Establishment Clause of the state and federal constitutions. Finally the court concluded that the state’s carry-concealed law is not a “land use regulation” covered by RLUIPA. Yesterday’s Minneapolis Star Tribune reports on the decision. (See prior related posting.)

http://www.startribune.com/local/west/15314881.html

Churches win another round on ’05 gun law exemptions

A court ruling says firearms can be banned from church-owned property, and signs don’t have to comply with language mandated by the state.

Last update: February 5, 2008 – 8:51 PM

Forcing churches to allow guns in their parking lots and use state-mandated language for signs forbidding firearms is an unconstitutional infringement on religious freedom, the state Court of Appeals ruled Tuesday.

The decision, which upheld a Hennepin County District Court ruling, means the Edina Community Lutheran Church can continue to legally ban guns with signs saying: “Blessed are the peacemakers. Firearms are prohibited in this place of sanctuary.” Other churches may choose their own wording.

Parking lots, day-care centers and other charitable, educational and nonprofit facilities owned by churches also may continue to ban firearms under the ruling.

The Minnesota law permitting people to carry concealed firearms was passed in 2003 and amended in 2005. It required that any organization, business or institution wanting to ban guns use specific language stating that the building operator “bans guns in these premises.”

It also didn’t allow most property owners to ban guns from parking areas and space rented to other groups or businesses.

Tuesday’s ruling doesn’t change most of the law’s provisions, including the requirement that sheriffs issue permits to carry handguns to applicants 21 and older who receive prescribed training and pass a background check.

Ben Wogsland, a spokesman for Attorney General Lori Swanson, said lawyers are reviewing the case and can’t yet make a decision on an appeal.

Church leaders pleased

The Rev. Erik Strand of Edina Community Lutheran Church said he was pleased with the decision as did Marshall Tanick, the lawyer for Unity Church in St. Paul, which had also challenged the law.

“We’re especially thankful that the court recognized and protected our congregation’s witness to peacemaking and nonviolence in all relationships,” Strand said in a written statement.

Tanick said the Court of Appeals ruled “on the broadest possible grounds. … It underscores the importance of freedom of religion in Minnesota,” he said.

In their suit, the Edina church’s leaders argued that entrances to Lutheran churches are reserved for “important religious messages that can be traced to Martin Luther’s act of nailing the 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, Germany.”

That argument was cited in the unanimous 32-page decision written by Judge David Minge and signed by Judges Jill Flaskamp Halbrooks and Terri Stoneburner.

“The uncontroverted affidavits before us establish that the sign provision does compel churches that wish to exclude firearms to act in a manner that is inconsistent with their religious beliefs by requiring that they place specific, conspicuous signs at every entrance to the church,” Minge wrote.

Hamline University School of Law Prof. Joe Olson, a supporter of the law, said the decision is so insignificant that it’s hardly worth talking about. “If they’re going to be charging someone with trespass, they still have to give them notice that they’re violating the policy,” Olson said. “In order to effectively give notice, they’re going to wind up posting signs and they can’t hide them behind a potted palm.”

Rochelle Olson • 612-673-1747

Answers in Atheism for February 7, 2008, CE by Edwin Kagin

“Answers in Atheism”

Thursday, February 7th, 2008 CE

7:00 pm Eastern Time.

Peter Lloyd will be the guest on the February 7 edition of “Answers in Atheism,” the new Internet radio call-in talk show sensation.

The topic will be on Peter’s new book, The Lion’s Way.

The Lion’s Way is a book that imagines the world without the crucifixion of Jesus and where the Roman Empire never collapsed.

Peter Lloyd promotes creative thinking at GoCreate.com, where you can also learn his Right Brain Aerobics and hear his original songs. The website is packed with creative ideas and ways to learn creativity. Peter is a member of the Free Inquiry Group of Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky (FIG).

His co-author is Marco Marsan, innovation expert, author, nationally renowned motivational speaker, self-proclaimed corporate anarchist, and founder of Marco Polo Explorers. His website is Marcomarsan.com.

Together they have created an exciting, action drama of passion, honor, dissent, and the struggle to right society’s wrongs.

For more information on this exciting program, for archived shows, and for contact information, see:

www.answersinatheism.net

Y’all call in y’hear.

See you on the radio.

Edwin.

KENTUCKY ATHEISTS NEWS & NOTES edited by Edwin Kagin

KENTUCKY ATHEISTS NEWS & NOTES Date: January 29, 2008


Kentucky Atheists, P.O. Box 48, Union, KY 41091; Email: ekagin@atheists.org

Phone: (859) 384-7000; Fax: (859) 384-7324; Web: http://www.atheists.org/ky/

Editor’s personal web site: www.edwinkagin.com

Editor’s personal blog: http://edwinkagin.blogspot.com

Edited by:

Edwin Kagin, Kentucky State Director, American Atheists, Inc.

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

I WAS BORN AN ATHEIST JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

To Unidentified Recipients:

AMERICAN ATHEISTS

http://www.atheists.org

RICHARD DAWKINS LEADS SPEAKER

LINE-UP AT AMERICAN ATHEISTS CONFERENCE

March 21-23, 2008 ~~ Minneapolis, MN.

RICHARD DAWKINS, author and scientist, will speak at the 34th National Conference of American Atheists slated for March 21-23, 2008 in Minneapolis, MN.

The venue is the magnificent Minneapolis Marriott City Center Hotel in the heart of downtown. This year’s conference will feature three exciting days of speakers, social events, panels, workshops and other events. You can register on-line using our secure transaction server at http://www.atheists.org/conference .

Richard Dawkins is the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford. Born in British colonial Africa, he was educated in England, where he now lives. He did his doctorate at Oxford under the Nobel Prize winning zoologist Niko Tinbergen, then was briefly an Assistant Professor at the University of California, Berkeley, from 1967 to 1969, after which he returned to Oxford, first as a Lecturer in Zoology, then Reader, before being elected to his present professorship.

He is the author of nine books: The Selfish Gene (1976, 2nd Ed 1989), The Extended Phenotype (1982), The Blind Watchmaker (1986), River Out of Eden (1995), Climbing Mount Improbable (1996), Unweaving the Rainbow (1998), A Devil’s Chaplain (2003), The Ancestor’s Tale (2004) and The God Delusion (2006). The God Delusion has sold more than a million copies in English, and is being published in 30 other languages. Dawkins is now editing an anthology of scientific writing for Oxford University Press, The Oxford Book of Modern Science Writing. In 2006, to promote the values of education, science, and critical thinking skills, he established The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (RDFRS) which is now a registered charity in both the UK and USA.

Richard Dawkins has Honorary Doctorates of Literature as well as Science, and
is a Fellow of both the Royal Society and the Royal Society of Literature. He has been awarded the Silver Medal of the Zoological Society of London, the Michael Faraday Award of the Royal Society, the Nakayama Prize, the Cosmos International Prize, the Kistler Prize, the Shakespeare Prize and the Lewis Thomas Prize.

WHO & WHAT: Richard Dawkins speaking at the 34th annual National Conference of American Atheists.

WHEN: March 21-23, 2008

WHERE: Minneapolis, MN. Minneapolis Marriott City Center Hotel

MORE INFO & REGISTRATION: http://www.atheists.org/ conference

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

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Don’t miss Answers in Atheism, the soon to be award winning live Internet radio call-in talk show.

Next show, January 31, 2008, at 7:00 pm. Eastern Time.

See: www.answersinatheism.net for details.

We are still working out technical matters. If you have not been able to access the show, do not despair for the shows are (should be—this is not precise science) archived on the website for your later enjoyment.

See you on the radio.

Edwin.

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Traditional Family Values Department (from reader Jan):

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/25/national/main3753682.shtml

“Clean” Movie Maven Arrested For Teen Sex OREM, Utah, Jan. 25, 2008

Utah Man Who Sold R-Rated Films Shorn Of Skin Arrested For Sex With 14-Year-Old Girls

(CBS) A Utah retailer of family-friendly tapes and DVDs – Hollywood films with the “dirty parts”

cut out of them – has been arrested for trading sex with two 14-year-old girls.

Orem police say Flix Club owner Daniel Dean Thompson, 31, and Issac Lifferth, 24, were booked into the Utah County jail on charges of sexual abuse and unlawful sexual activity with a 14-year-old.

CBS Station KUTV in Salt Lake City reports that the shocking discovery came when a mother found a $20 bill in her daughter’s room last week and questioned her about where the money came from.

The girl confessed that she and a friend had been paid for sexual favors by an older male.

Lifferth was additionally charged with patronizing a prostitute and was also in possession of a prescription drug medication without a prescription.

Thompson’s Flix Club was one of several Utah-based video outlets that traded in edited versions of

R- and PG-13-rated films, catering to clientele who wanted to watch hit movies without nudity, sex, language or graphic violence.

Such video editing operations came under the gun of Hollywood studios and the Directors Guild of America.

In a case brought by the DGA, a federal judge ruled in 2006 that editing out material (such as Kate Winslet’s bare breasts in “Titanic”) violated copyright laws. The decision was against a Utah company called Clean Flicks.

Thompson, who was a franchise operator for Clean Flicks, opened Flix Club last year, similarly trading in edited videos but claiming that such editing was for “educational use.”

Threats of lawsuits from the Hollywood studios forced him to agree to shut down on December 31.

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From reader Frank:

Edwin,

I am troubled by where (in your email below to J. Stamper at the Herald-Leader newspaper) you wrote:

Naturally, they will say that this, if true, is not an attempt to unconstitutionally ‘establish a religion.’

Yes, I agree that that is what “they” will likely say. What troubles me is the including of the indefinite article “a” in front of “religion.” The Establishment Clause of Amendment I of the Constitution of the United States of America omits the article “a” and simply says that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion” (as in, of ANY religion, not just of one particular religion over others), which seems to me to be a much stronger, broader statement than proscribing against the establishment of a religion (as in, of one particular religion over others). I do not think it likely that the authors of the 1st Amendment omitted the indefinite article “a” inadvertently, nor that the ratifiers of the 1st Amendment inadvertently overlooked that the article “a” was omitted or casually dismissed the implication of its omission..

I am always troubled (in fact, I downright cringe) when I hear folks like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity include the article “a” in front of “religion” whenever they make reference to the 1st Amendment, because including it subtly but vitally weakens the expressed mandate of the Establishment Clause. If what you predict will be said in defense of the state Senate launching its new work year by listening to a rendition of “Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus” come to pass, we should not let the defenders get away with (purposely or carelessly) smuggling the article “a” into their reference to the Establishment Clause; we should take advantage of every opportunity to remind such defenders and the public-at-large that — by thoughtfully omitting the indefinite article “a” in front of “religion” — the authors of the 1st Amendment rendered the Establishment Clause to be a much stronger, broader mandate than it is often popularly mis-characterized to be.

That said, clearly the song “Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus” is a song of the Christian religion and is not representative of all religions but rather of Christianity over other religions, and so even including the uncodified article “a” in front of “religion” in references to the Establishment Clause, a plea that beginning the state Senate’s working year by group-listening to the song “Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus” is not an attempt to unconstitutionally “establish a religion” is prima facie a failed defense. Nonetheless, I still strongly think we (all of us) should take every opportunity to publicly make the point that by omitting the indefinite article “a” in front of “religion” the authors of the 1st Amendment rendered it to be a stronger, broader mandate than it is often popularly mis-characterized to be.

Just a thought, humbly submitted. — Frank Lovell, Louisville, KY

——————————

Frank,

You are of course correct, and I apologize for the error.

It just seemed that they are in fact attempting to establish a particular religion.

But the omission of the indefinite article was, as you observe, intentional and full of meaning.

Edwin.

With your permission, I would like to publish this correspondence.

Edwin.

==================================================================================================

From reader Natty:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/col/tenn/2008/01/24/planet_death/

I’m a brilliant scientist and I fear for the world’s fate

“I wish I could have faith — at least for my daughter’s sake if not for mine.”

By Cary Tennis

Jan. 24, 2008

Hello, Cary,

I have mastered many advanced scientific and engineering fields and can mostly understand just about every advanced scientific theory or engineering device currently in existence or previously in existence — like how to build an atomic bomb or an IC (integrated circuit) device from basic raw materials, or create a digital camera array, program a computer, build a complete scientific instrument from basic components, interface a computer and other devices.

Or knowing the physics of how the sun works, or how to make any glass act just like a plastic metal (my thesis), or why the entropy of the universe requires that black holes, contrary to theory, are not really a one-way sink for the universe.

To better teach myself quantum mechanics, I wrote my own text (which the quantum professor at the university reproduced and gave his later classes). I have also studied a great deal of mathematics, philosophy, economics and history. I devour current events and have done many strange jobs: flown jets, worked in intelligence, and done cutting-edge research at a number of R&D laboratories both private and governmental.

However, I do not understand faith, nor how it is even possible to hold such a strange idea in the mind. I do miss this mind drug and how it would provide a childlike answer about “after” death. But such a lie is just a pointless waste of my time. (Yes, I have read the Bible in detail, and studied all the other great religions.)

Yet, more to the point, I am baffled by how I can deal with “knowing” the real future — we in America are fucked — at least in our way of life: We cannot control the economic slice of the world pie that we have grown accustomed to, and as is all too clear, our future will be hard and poor.

Worse, we are fast approaching peak oil, and our way of life will soon take an even bigger hit. To see the truth of this, look at the cost of food: It is climbing. The cost of oil has rippled through our economy, caused in part by our stupidity in creating ethanol from corn, but that is just the sign of doom — peak oil is our real doom and the world’s, too.

We do not and will not for many years have any way to handle peak oil; I know the technology and there is no answer we can hope for in under 10 years (if we get started now, that is) — my life, yours, that of all middle-class people are doomed to spiral down.

Again, this is only one more piece in the disaster looming over us; environmental degradation, overpopulation, world hunger, war and large sections of third-world states falling into chaos are going to threaten us in the next 10 years. I know this and I know that all this could be avoided if —

1) People gave up faith,
2) Stopped feigning the truth and
3) Stopped listening to the right-wing Republican thugs and their loony mouthpieces that are raping the middle class and poor for the rich elite (themselves).

I know there is zero chance of this happening. So, how can I look my daughter, who is the light of my life, in the eye, smile and continue to follow through with the same things I always do, knowing the truth of the terrible world she will soon live within, which will try to crush her future?

How can I stop caring, turn off my brain, and just enjoy the time we have left in the sun? In other words, give up truth and be like everyone else and live with blinders? Drugs would help, but then I’d miss out on the fun that we have left.

The real truth is that, “in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man” is … an unhappy, depressed man who everyone else thinks is just a troubled, opinionated know-it-all.
One-Eyed Man

Dear One-Eyed Man,

Faith is not the problem. Death is the problem. You are troubled by a vision of planetary death, which stems from fear of personal death. This fear also makes you ache for your daughter, whom you envision being left alone in a dying world. It is not a technical problem. It is a spiritual problem. You seem to find it hard to accept that. Perhaps you can accept this, though:

You need a vacation.

You must go to the ocean and jump in. You must go to the ocean, take your shoes off and walk in the sand. Sit in the sand and look out at the ocean and think of Odysseus. Think of Priam and his ships.

Think of Lear and his madness. Think of Cleopatra, a swarm of locusts, the wisdom of ancient Egypt, Jews wandering 40 years in the wilderness. Think of the spice wars, cholera epidemics, the Great Fire of London, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, the rise of Islam, the Nazi phenomenon and the coming Super Bowl contest. Think of George W. Bush sauntering through the capitals of the Mideast like a chastened frat boy on his final field trip.

Think of evolution, our origins in the sea, our miraculous plankton brotherhood, our kinship with kelp that waves serenely in ancient seas. Think of the sand and how old it is; think of our cells and think of our options, how we could be plankton if need be, how we could be gas or liquid, how we could transubstantiate at a moment’s notice if only the right force came along. Think of the mutability of atomic structure, how easily matter becomes energy, how we each might fissure into energy at the time of death. Think how many mysteries remain for us and how little we know about the silent, mocking plankton. Think of bombs and timers and the vaporizing flesh of a martyr in his millisecond of victory and doom. Think of mountains, their patient climb of eons to the sky. Contemplate the aurora borealis and the southern lights, simultaneous sunsets down the longitudes of our slow, inherited spinning. Think of a beard growing on your father. Think of the egg that became you. Think of solar cells and leaps of efficiency. Think of Edison and Einstein: Are we fresh out of amazement?

Have we finished finding things out? What preposterous presumption is that? We are finding things out faster than ever. We are about to know our own genes, the true bible of our being. So if we are finding things out more quickly than ever and things have looked much worse in the past and we got over them, where is the justification for your gloom? Why do our little problems seem insurmountable? Where is your faith in science? Where is your wonder? Where is your readiness for the surprise of new knowledge?

I think you’re just tired. You’re too smart to be talking like this. They must be overworking you in the lab. You need a vacation, man.

I myself am taking a couple of days off. I am visiting my father, an ex-Navy man. I am trying to understand his lifelong interest in UFOs. We are sitting in the kitchen and he toddles in, wearing his tweed jacket and red sweater, his hair tousled and gray, his posture bent with old age and Parkinson’s. He carries stacks of books on UFOs, crop circles and the like. He piles them on the table: Would you like to look at some of these books? It is the same old story, his strange superstition, my skepticism.

But among the books is “Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Skies,” by Carl Jung. Is this an instance of synchronicity? Is it just a coincidence that your dire fears of planetary collapse come to me as I am reading Jung’s meditations on the symbolic meaning of flying saucer reports? Writing to a friend in 1951 he said, “At a time when the world is divided by an iron curtain — a fact unheard-of in human history — we might expect all sorts of funny things, since when such a thing happens in an individual it means complete dissociation, which is instantly compensated by symbols of wholeness and unity. The phenomenon of the saucers might even be both, rumor as well as fact. In this case it would be what I call a synchronicity.”

You are dying to protect your daughter from the end of the world but you cannot. Nor can you protect her from your own death. Nor can you prevent your own psyche from struggling to provide you with lifesaving symbols of renewal. Scoff if you must. But take a vacation and your psyche will renew itself in spite of you.

Indeed, “but this is wondrous strange,” says Horatio.

“And therefore as a stranger give it welcome,” says Hamlet. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

-- 

Rachel Corrie lives.
Pass it on.

KENTUCKY ATHEISTS NEWS & NOTES edited by Edwin Kagin

KENTUCKY ATHEISTS NEWS & NOTES Date: January 12, 2008


Kentucky Atheists, P.O. Box 48, Union, KY 41091; Email: ekagin@atheists.org

Phone: (859) 384-7000; Fax: (859) 384-7324; Web: http://www.atheists.org/ky/

Editor’s personal web site: www.edwinkagin.com

Editor’s personal blog: http://edwinkagin.blogspot.com

Edited by:

Edwin Kagin, Kentucky State Director, American Atheists, Inc.

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

I WAS BORN AN ATHEIST JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE

To Unidentified Recipients:

Just couldn’t believe it, so I wrote to the reporter at the Lexington Herald-Leader thus:

From: Edwin Kagin [mailto:edwinkagin@fuse.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 8:01 AM
To: ‘JSTAMPER@HERALD-LEADER.COM’

Subject
: Turn your what upon who?

Howdy.

Could you please verify?

First line of today’s story about the start of the 2008 Senate < http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/280739.html > :

“The political squabbles started less than an hour after the state Senate kicked off its work year listening to a rendition of ‘Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus.'”

Naturally, they will say that this, if true, is not an attempt to unconstitutionally “establish a religion.”

Are these the words?

”O soul are you weary and troubled?
No light in the darkness you see?
There’s light for a look at the Saviour,
And life more abundant and free:

[Chorus:]
Turn you eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face;
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace.

Through death into life everlasting
He passed, and we follow Him there;
Over us sin no more hath dominion
For more than conqu’rors we are!

[Chorus]

His word shall not fail you He promised;
Believe Him and all will be well.
Then go to a world that is dying,
His perfect salvation to tell!

[Chorus]”

If that is not religious, one wonders just how it might look if they were religious.

We are a nation of laws, not a nation of sins.

Thank you.

Edwin.

Edwin Kagin,
National Legal Director
American Atheists, Inc.
ekagin@atheists.org
Phone
: 859-384-7000

Toll Free: 877-814-9287
Fax: 859-384-7324

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

—————————————————–

Well, it was true.

———————————————-

And if that is not enough of a dose of constitutional awareness for Kentucky, consider this:

Bill in the works for public school prayer

BY PATRICK CROWLEY

*

FRANKFORT — A Northern Kentucky lawmaker is working on legislation designed to allow public school students to openly pray in school.

Rep. Royce Adams, D-Dry Ridge, said he is working on the bill at the request of a Grant County church that claims to have collected more than 25,000 signatures on petitions supporting the effort.

Adams said the bill is not yet drafted and he would not divulge further details.

ADVERTISEMENT

Should the Ky. Legislature worry about prayer in schools?

“It’s a work in progress as we speak,” Adams said Tuesday morning about an hour before the Kentucky General Assembly opened its 2008 legislative session.

Adams acknowledged the bill is apt to raise constitutional concerns.

“That’s what we’re looking into,” he said while walking through the tunnel that connects the Capitol Parking Garage with the Capitol Annex. “Hopefully we’ll have something that will meet the needs (of the supporters.) I really believe that part of the problem is we’ve already got some things on the books that most people don’t realize are there. So we are trying to take all that into consideration before we draft a bill.”

Adams would not expound on his comment that there may be an existing law or provision in a state statute that would allow open prayer in school.

“I’m not ready to give a lot of information, because like I said, it’s a work in progress.”

“But I think I have to come up with some type of legislation because I’ve got quite a few (people) in my district that are interested in this,” Adams said.

He said the Lawrenceville Baptist Church in Corinth in southern Grant County initiated the petition drive. In a statement issued by the Rev. Jay Holt, pastor, the church said it had “collected more than 25,000 signatures … to put prayer back in Kentucky schools.”

“Through door-to-door signature drives, booths at local events and letters to hundreds of churches all over the state, the congregation of Lawrenceville has caught the attention of legislators in Frankfort,” according to the statement.

“People want this,” Adams said. “I’ve been working on this for a couple of months. We’ll have something on this down the road.”

Rep. Kathy Stein, D-Lexington, who often clashes with conservative lawmakers over religious-oriented legislation, said Adams is “pandering” with the bill and said the General Assembly should be focused on other issues.

“We’re facing a $400 million hole in the budget,” Stein said in an interview.

“We have more than likely cuts in (public education) we are going to have to make.

“We are not properly funding our universities, yet (Adams) wants to get us all in a tizzy about prayer in school.

“Children can pray in school right now so long as they aren’t disruptive to the class,” said Stein, a lawyer.

“This is just – the word pandering comes to mind.”

===========================================================================================

And while that scoff law behavior is going on:

Kentucky makes the New York Times, with “In Kentucky’s Teeth, Toll of Poverty and Neglect”:

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/24/us/24kentucky.html

———————————————————————–

But fear not, for in Kentucky:

From reader Jan:

Subject: 10 C’s back in Garrard County Courthouse

Here we go again.

This display features ONLY stuff on the 10 C’s – and they evidently think that makes it more

kosher? Oh, yeah, it is the business of the Garrard County Court to educate citizens on the 10

C’s. Guess Garrard County doesn’t have churches to do this and they need to rely on tax payer

funded entities to do the church’s job.

What. IDIOTS.

According to Garrard County Judge Executive, John Wilson, this display is supposed to “educate the

public on the history of the 10 commandments.” That publicized statement alone just lost them

their case.

Wilson must have gotten his law degree in aisle 6 at KMart during a blue light special.

====

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/13510102.html

10 Commandments Hung Monday In KY Courthouse

The halls of the Garrard County courthouse now look a little different than before.

A new ten commandments display was unveiled Monday morning, after the fiscal court voted

unanimously to place it in the courthouse.

Garrard County Judge Executive John Wilson says this one is much different from a display that had

to be removed last year, after it landed the county in court.

“The other display hung by previous administration and was a collection of historical documents,

one of which was the 10 commandments,” he said. “This is a different one; it is educational. It’s

to educate the public on the history of the 10 commandments.”

Wilson says the new display chronicles the commandments from the beginning to the current day

court battles. He says it shows both sides of the controversy.

———————

Note: all of this can be easily avoided, and persons desiring the Ten Commandments are invited to go to www.edwinkagin.com , where it is written,

“…Those who feel they cannot refrain from robbing, murdering, raping, stealing, etc. without this Bronze Age code to guide them can now have their very own copy by printing out this thoughtfully offered document in ready- to-print-and-frame form, which can be easily enlarged or reduced as desired.

Readers can now “Hang Ten” everywhere they can find wall space to do so.

If everyone has their own copy to read or worship, and every child has one to put on the front of their school binder, we should not need to have further fuss over such debated issues as unlawful postings in schools, court houses, and other public places. Some may want to paper their homes with them.

And, if the theory of those who want them displayed everywhere is correct, then crime, immorality, and all nature of bad things should soon disappear….” Edwin.

========================================================================================================================

Also from reader Jan:

Some other Kentucky background that might be helpful:

http://kentucky.wedding.net/demographics.html

In 2000, The Association of Religion Data Archives reported[55] that of Kentucky’s 4,041,769

residents:

33.68% were members of evangelical Protestant churches Southern Baptist Convention (979,994 members, 24.25%) Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ (106,638 members, 2.64%) Church of Christ (58,602 members, 1.45%) 10.05% were Roman Catholics 8.77% belonged to mainline Protestant churches United Methodist Church (208,720 members, 5.16%) Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) (67,611 members, 1.67%) 0.05% were members of orthodox churches 0.88% were affiliated with other theologies 46.57% were not affiliated with any church.

Today Kentucky is home to several seminaries. Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville is the principal seminary for the Southern Baptist Convent
ion. Louisville is also the home of the Louisville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Lexington also has a seminary, Lexington Theological Seminary, and Asbury Theological Seminary is located in nearby Wilmore. In addition to seminaries, there are several colleges affiliated with denominations. Transylvania in Lexington is affiliated with the Disciples of Christ. In Louisville, Bellarmine and Spalding are affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church. Louisville is also home to the headquarters of the Presbyterian Church (USA) and their printing press. >>> Louisville is also home to a sizable Jewish population. <<<

====

(46.57% UNchurched! Woo Hoo!!!)

Also, Kentucky is the home of Charles C. Moore – one of the last people in America to be jailed for blasphemy < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Chilton_Moore >:

====

Charles Chilton Moore (1837 – February 7, 1906) was an American atheist, and the editor of Blue Grass Blade, one of the United States’ first journals promoting atheism.

C. C. Moore’s grandfather was the 19th century religious reformer Barton W. Stone. Moore became a preacher, in his grandfather’s tradition, but came to doubt the Bible and its teachings. He left the church, passing through deism and agnosticism before becoming an atheist. He founded the Blue Grass Blade in 1884 in Lexington, Kentucky. Due to financial and legal problems, he was only able to publish it sporadically. The journal contained articles advocating such positions as agnosticism, women’s suffrage, and prohibition.

Moore spent time in prison for his outspoken opposition to religion and The Bible. He was even jailed for blasphemy, but was * pardoned by president William McKinley. His autobiography, written in prison, is called Behind the Bars.

Moore’s legacy is that of a father of American atheism. His Blue Grass Blade was widely circulated, gaining him notoriety among the religious and non-religious alike. He helped to promote arguments against much that is contained in the Bible, for example, geological evidence that Earth existed far before the date of October 23, 4004 BC, calculated by James Ussher from the Old Testament. His legal trials helped establish precedents in free speech law, as it relates to religious dissent. The Blue Grass Blade continued to be published after his death by James Edward Hughes until 1910.

Charles Chilton Moore is buried in Lexington, Kentucky.

[*Jailed in Lexington for blasphemy…in prison in Ohio later for charges of publishing “free love” statements in the Blade – with the Ohio sentence being the one pardoned by McKinley.]

====

Also, AA held their 1984 convention in Lexington, with Moore’s 3 books being republished by AA – Madelyn Murray O’Hair writing the forward to each. Madelyn’s son, Bill, picketed outside the hotel where the convention was held. AA members went to Moore’s grave in the Lexington Cemetery to plant a “Devil’s Hosta” in front of the gravestone < http://www.therestorationmovement.com/cc_moore.htm >.

Jan

————————-

Addendum from reader Jan:

Might note that those stats are from 2000. I’m sure the religion demographics have become even more varied since then.

We have a fairly good sized Muslim population in Kentucky < http://www.kentucky.com/158/story/164921.html > with 22 mosques in the state and between 5,000 and 6,000 Muslims in Lexington alone, according to the September 2007 article.

Lexington has the “Bharatiya Temple and Cultural Cente” < http://www.btccky.org > and Louisville has the “Hindu Temple of Kentucky”.

There are numerous Pagan/Wicca groups all over Kentucky too < http://www.witchvox.com/vn/gr/usky_gra.html >.

The Baha’i have churches in Lexington, Frankfort, Louisville, Richmond and Bowling Green.

HELL (pun intended) even the Kentucky Satanists are trying to organize MeetUps < http://satanism.meetup.com/cities/us/ky/louisville > and < http://satanism.meetup.com/cities/us/ky/louisville >.

So, there are a lot of “others” out there besides the Gawdless Infidels. And those good legislators are supposed to be representing ALL of us.

Jan

=============================================================================================

From Samantha of England (a country about the size of Kentucky—for details, ask someone who went to school when geography was still taught):

Subject: Blasphemy law ‘may be abolished’

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7178439.stm

“The government has signalled that it will bring

forward plans to repeal the law of blasphemy, in an

effort to head off a rebellion by Labour MPs.

Ministers are hoping to persuade backbenchers against

backing a motion calling for the immediate abolition

of the ancient legislation.

They say they want to talk to the Church of England

before scrapping the offence of blasphemous libel.

But Labour MPs have been told the government is

sympathetic in principle.”

Perhaps there is hope yet for us…

Sam

——————————-

It is suggested that copies of “Baubles of Blasphemy,” by Edwin Kagin, be sent to this poor county in missionary boxes to aid in the emerging enlightenment. Edwin.

Answers in Atheism radio show tonight.

“Answers in Atheism,” the Internet radio call-in talk show.

LIVE. Thursday, January 10, 2008 at 7:00 pm, Eastern Time.

See: www.answersinatheism.net for access, for call in information, and for previous shows.

Tonight’s guest is John Armstrong from Louisville, Kentucky.

John Armstrong is the author of “God vs the Bible” which skeptically examines the

Bible from a deist’s point of view. The book is available online at

www.godvsthebible.com. He also has a podcast on YouTube in a series called “Skeptic

Bible Study”. John is also one of the co-founders of the Louisville Atheists and

Freethinkers. He hopes to bring about a more rational world by opening up dialogues

which may lead people to a safer and more sane form of spirituality. We will talk

about his efforts and what it means to be a deist.

Y’all listen and call in y’hear.

Edwin.

Edwin on Time, or New Year’s Eve, 2007 Fades to New Year’s Day, 2008, or Vice Versa

KAGIN’S COLUMN

Edwin F. Kagin is a lawyer‑poet. He believes that, through grace and faith,

this will be a regular column and, if events are predestined, that whatever

he believes makes no difference whatsoever. He can be reached in care of

this publication, or through e‑mail at: edwin@edwinkagin.com

Permission for non-profit reproduction is given, so long as credit is given,

so the villagers will not go after the wrong person with pitchforks and torches.

Edwin on Time, or

New Year’s Eve, 2007 Fades to New Year’s Day, 2008, or Vice Versa

 
Time like an ever-flowing stream   
Bears all its sons away;
They fly forgotten as a dream
Dies at the break of day. (Isaac Watts, 1719)

There once was a girl named Miss Bright,
Who could travel much faster than light.
She left one day,
In a relative way.
And returned the previous night. (Anon)

My brilliant, beautiful, and single (email available upon appropriate request) daughter Heather is, at this writing, in the People’s Republic of China. This frolic and detour logically follows my child’s previous adventures, which include, inter alia, climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro on one occasion and chatting with the Buddhists of Katmandu on another. The fact of this sojourn is mentioned only to explain why I came to realize that while it is New Year’s Eve at Kagin Manor in Union, Kentucky, it is now New Years Day in the space-time that hopefully still contains my Heather.

Time, you see, is not a real thing. It is something we make up. This may well come as a stunning surprise to some readers, who may be equally amazed to learn that there are not really lines on the ground between Kentucky and Tennessee, such as are shown on maps. Nor are there really lines of latitude and longitude—concepts that are doubtless familiar to readers who went to school when geography was still taught. They are all imaginary constructs—things that we accept by agreement as true because it is useful for us to do so and permits things like permitting us to sail around the world rather than causing us to fall off of the edge of the earth.

It must be so, otherwise how could it be January 1, 2008 in what we used to call China (and that is what it is called on almost every widget now sold in Wal-Mart and such) and at the same time (pardon the expression) be December 31, 2007 in Union, Kentucky?

If one had a fast enough means of transport, and a car (and other needed details nit-picking critics will point out in this work instead of writing their own essay), one could in theory celebrate the coming of the New Year at midnight tonight in Union, and then go celebrate New Year with Natty Bumppo, County Lawyer, in Central Time, and then speed to Yuma, Arizona to do New Year’s with Lisa Clark, the repentant witch of Camp Quest, and from thence to the Pacific Time Zone where David Kong, Bart Metzler, and other Atheists will surely be celebrating the coming of 2008 in an excess of revelry an hour later. If they are there that is. If they are in another time zone, they will not have New Year happen when it should.

So what is time anyhow, if all of these places can be at the same time at different times?

Time has certainly not always been done the way we do it now. In ancient (from our perspective) times, literate, intelligent people broke the day into 24 hours, a custom we of course follow. However, the day was further divided into 12 hours for daylight and 12 hours for the dark. Yeah. So an hour of daylight would last longer in the summer than in the winter, and an hour of darkness would last longer in December than in June. And, except perhaps at the two annual equinoxes, hours of day and night would be of different objective lengths. But each hour would still be an hour. I reckon anyhow. So, if one were disposed to visit a brothel of Pompey, and if the services offered at such mercantile establishments went by the hour, a clever customer, at this time of the year, might well conclude that one could get more bang for the buck by visiting during one or more of the longer twelve evening hours rather than during the shorter daytime hours. The reverse would, in this hypothetical, apply in the summer months.

Problems of a more family friendly nature might have occurred in things like cooking. If, say, the cookbook (if any) said to bake the roast beast for two hours, the same beast might be more or less done depending on the time of year it was cooked and whether it was prepared in the day or in the evening.

Of course, the problem with clocks was epidemic. Some wit observed that there were more opinions on some hot issue than there were different times on the clocks of Rome. Making accurate clocks is one of the great obsessive compulsive achievements of human kind. The clock on my computer faithfully shows the date, changes the year more accurately than Time Square does, and even adjusts itself for that human invented phenomena “Daylight Savings Time.”

We don’t have to base time on the movement of the earth. We could base it on lots of other things, and maybe have years lasting for thousands of days or weeks that were over in only a few minutes. It all depends on just what system we either agree upon or have forced upon us. On point is the present system, with the year 2008 supposed to be 2008 years since the birth of Jesus, presumed-by-many-to-be the Christ. That is not accurate of course, even if there really was a Jesus. King Herod is known to have died in 4 BCE If the book of Matthew in the Bible is to be believed, and the Magi consulted with Herod about the child Jesus before visiting his house in Bethlehem, then Jesus could not have been born after the date of Herod’s death. Oh, well, a mystery of faith. More on point, someone picked the dates and, to make sure everyone was on roughly the same temporal page, the system was adopted. At least in places frequented by most of our ancestors. Others people’s ancestors followed different roads and days.

Our year 2008 will be year 4705 by the Chinese calendar (4706 according to a few astrological/zodiac opinions). The Chinese New Year is the second New Moon after the winter solstice. If this sounds silly, check out how the date for Easter is calculated.

2008 is, of course, also a Leap Year. This means that it has one more day, February 29th, than last year or next year, when the last day was, and will be, February 28th. It also means we have a Presidential Election (thank dog) and an Olympics this year. These are unrelated facts.

That is because, in 30 BCE, Julius Caesar’s successor Augustus changed the Egyptian calendar to make it as long as the Julian calendar by adding a day every four years. The Roman year did not start on January 1st as we know it should. Those Romans had the year begin on July 1st or on September 1st, depending on which century you are talking about.

Pope Gregory XIII replaced the Julian calendar, on February 23, 1582, with a revised one. His main motive was to make Easter more stable in holy calculations, and the “Gregorian calendar” is the one we use at our moment in history, despite the pantheon of non-Christian deities therein memorialized. Not all countries adopted this calendar at the same time, and this caused some interesting confusions. Shakespeare and Cervantes both died on April 23, 1616. But in “real” time (whatever that may “really” mean), Cervantes died ten days before Shakespeare died. That was because Cervantes died under the Gregorian calendar, while Shakespeare had the Julian calendar on the wall.

Here are a couple of things you can use to really impress some people. The Platonic Year (or Platonic Cycle), reflects the 25920 years of the precession of the equinoxes, and the Long Count calenda
r of the Maya marks a given day in time by counting the number of days that have gone by since August 11, 3114 BCE on the Gregorian calendar. I don’t have any idea why either. Yes, that is plagiarized information. Most information is.

Bruno is the unreasonably large English Mastiff that serves as the seminal mascot for Camp Quest. He is in the first line of defenses at Kagin Manor, standing guard against the terrorism of faith based initiatives, of whatever flavor, that might be hurled against it. This massive animal was born on February 12, 2000. February 12th is the birthday of Abraham Lincoln and of Charles Darwin, and February 2000 is four hundred years to the month after that great hero of our heritage, Giordano Bruno, was mercifully burned alive by the Christian Inquisition for saying the Earth went around the sun. Our Bruno’s full name is “Abraham Bruno Charles Darwin.” Just “Bruno,” or the “ABCD Dog,” for short. His four given names fit perfectly into the preassigned blocks and spaces on the American Kennel Club purebred dog registration form. Rarely has random chance been so clearly seen operating in our favor.

Bruno gets into this writing because, on February 12, 2008, he will be eight years old. And that means our Bruno is now an old dog. He has gray hairs on his muzzle, and he does not move as spryly as in his youth, displaying, despite his continued heart, and his bark that still makes the earth tremble, signs of advancing age, preferring nothing more than just lying around—a trait admittedly shared with certain human adolescents. Nevertheless, eight years old is old for his breed of dogkind. My grandson was born a month before Bruno, but he is still properly a child and will remain so until after well Bruno has gone the way of all dogs. Don’t seem fair to Bruno do it? Well, neither he nor I made the rules. Lots of dogs didn’t make it to eight. Even more potential dogs never even got born. Same is true for people. So don’t whine. Whatever is happening in your life more than likely beats the alternative.

The way we experience time is not the same for all events of our lives. You can prove this easily to yourself. Get something to measure exactly three minutes, like an egg timer. Then set the timer and have some attractive human of the opposite sex give you a nice hot oil massage for exactly three minutes. Then, get into a boxing ring with someone of about your same or greater skill level and vigorously box with them for exactly a three minute round, also precisely timed. Now, which experience seemed longer and which seemed to consume less time?

And if one twin stays on earth and the other twin goes off at a very fast clip from our planet and returns some years later, as we view time here, the twin on Earth will be much older that the twin who went off into space. Yes. It is true, and yes it has been proved.

Time is clearly not an absolute and time is clearly relative. Bruno almost certainly experiences time differently from humans. While Bruno, the retired Camp Quest mascot, is now old, a human born the very same day as Bruno will not be old enough to attend Camp Quest until February 12, 2008 CE (If you don’t know what BCE and CE, as used herein, mean, look it up—don’t have time or space to explain it just now). Whether Bruno feels as if he has lived as long as I feel I have lived is something that cannot be known, at least at this time in this dimension of this universe.

And during Bruno’s time in the flesh, we might wonder how many generations of gastrotriches have written their memoirs. And just how complex might such autobiographical ramblings be in their own terms? Gastrotriches have three day life cycles. Makes Bruno seem downright ancient.

Anyhow, it is time to stop for now. Don’t take life too seriously. You won’t get out of it alive anyway.

Happy New Year, Y’all!

Edwin.

Article in Louisville, Kentucky’s LEO Newspaper on Answers in Atheism

Here is the article on Answers in Atheism that appeared this week in Louisville, Kentucky’s independent newspaper LEO.

It is supposed to be on line but I was only able to get this from cashed sources. Seems that the LEO’s server is down.

We are being noticed. This is a good way to start the new year. Please spread the word of www.answersinatheism.net .

Thank you for your help in bringing us this far. We are helping to make a difference.

Suggest you write the author (her email is at the end of the article) and let her know we do appreciate her reporting of Answers in Atheism.

Edwin.

====================================================================================

Article in LEO, independent newspaper in Louisville, Kentucky

December 26, 2007

When God’s got no answer: An upstart Internet broadcast from Union, Ky., tries to bring atheism to the masses

By LEO Weekly

BY KATHLEEN ADAMS


Many of the houses in the Northern Kentucky subdivision where Edwin Kagin lives are illuminated by brightly lit reindeer, icicles and other symbols of the Christmas season. But not the two-story home Kagin shares with his wife Helen.

That’s because Kagin isn’t a believer. He is an atheist who professes no belief in God or gods. Rather, the 67-year-old’s faith lies in the World Wide Web. Earlier this fall, he and a handful of volunteers launched a new Internet call-in show, AnswersinAtheism.net. With few exceptions, the show is broadcast live from Kagin’s home office in Union, Ky., a 10-minute drive from the flashy new Creation Museum, operated by “Answers in Genesis.”

On this particular Sunday afternoon, Kagin holds an informal reception in his dining room for the week’s special guest, Conrad Goeringer, director of public policy for the group American Atheists. Outfitted in black Wrangler jeans, a white pirate-style blouse (think of the Seinfeld “puffy shirt” episode) and a black leather vest, Kagin, who provides legal counsel to the New Jersey-based American Atheists, directs a visitor down the green carpeted stairs to his makeshift studio, also a repository for his collection of replica swords and walking sticks.

“I had nursed the idea of hosting a radio program on atheism for some time,” Kagin explains, sitting on a burgundy leather couch near a bookshelf holding multiple copies of the Bible, as well as “Who’s Who in Hell” and “The Koran for Dummies.”

“But (I) did not think it was feasible to do so. We would need a radio station and FCC licenses, and that was beyond the reach of people who are not rich from using religion to become so,” Kagin says.

The son of a Presbyterian minister, Kagin embraced atheism at an early age. He recalled that for many years, his parents thought he was simply going through a phase and would eventually renounce his non-belief — humble beginnings for a provocative Internet show.

“It is enjoyable,” Kagin says of the fledgling Internet broadcast. “It should prove educational for many people who know little or nothing about atheism, and it may help strengthen atheists who feel all alone among people who are hostile to them without reason.”

While the popularity of books such as Christopher Hitchens’ “God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything” and Richard Dawkins’ “The God Delusion” helps redefine how the mainstream perceives atheism, a 2006 survey by researchers at the University of Minnesota found that atheists are the least accepted social group in the United States. More recently, a February 2007 USA Today/Gallup Poll survey showed that 53 percent of Americans would be reluctant to vote for an atheist candidate for president.
Nonetheless, James Beverley, associate director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion in Santa Barbara, Calif., and professor of Christian Thought and Ethics at Tyndale Seminary in Toronto, said there are strong indications that New Atheism is attracting a greater number of people. He pointed out the Atheist Alliance annual convention was sold out this year.

“Two things explain the increased interest in atheism,” Beverley says. “First, atheist leaders like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris are doing an effective sales pitch. These evangelists for atheism have a take-no-prisoners approach, and this creates its own success, even if it only lasts until individual atheists tire of its dogmatism. Second, the God hypothesis has taken a beating lately because of all the evils done in the name of God.”

It takes five people — Kagin, Helen and three members of FIG, the Free Inquiry Group of Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky — to produce the weekly broadcast.

Frank Bicknel, a broadcast engineer, is the self-described “geek” who first approached Kagin with the idea of transmitting the show over the Web.

“He explained that it could all be done on the Internet without licensing and without other problems that would prevent broadcasting over conventional radio,” Kagin says.

Bicknel is also responsible for securing the technology used during the show, which takes surprisingly few gadgets to produce: a computer, some inexpensive software, a server and microphone.
Husband and wife John and Fran Welte are the show’s producers. John, 54, a photographer, said no one involved with the production has a background in broadcasting. Instead, they make things up as they go.
“I was shy about asking people to appear (on the show) at first,” he says. “But I found if you ask someone to talk about themselves and what they are interested in, they are happy to do it.”

So far, the biggest challenge facing AnswersinAtheism.net is keeping Kagin on track as host.
“He is the personality that makes the show, but he tends to charge ahead with or without regard to our format,” John Welte says.

Kagin admits he’d be thrilled if the production was eventually picked up by so-called regular radio, maybe even National Public Radio. In the meantime, he’s content with the Internet designation.
“When one has only one life, they should try to avoid deliberately doing unpleasant things,” he says. “Atheists live for life before death, not life after death.”

Contact the writer at
citystrobe@leoweekly.com

Eight Years after the Rapture, by Edwin Kagin

Eight Years after the Rapture, by Edwin Kagin

As you know, the Rapture occurred at midnight, just as the year 2000 C.E. began. Just as had been predicted by many religious prophets.

The coming New Year, at the stroke of midnight that welcomes the year 2008 C.E., will therefore begin the eighth year since the supernatural occurrence of this one time only eschatological (look it up) event.

If you are reading this, you of course were not raptured. Everyone now on Earth was not raptured and never will be raptured. The Rapture is a done deal, over and gone. Been there, done that, wrote the book. Sadly, there can be no sequel. Too bad if you are still here. And none still here need gloat for all are on the same Earth.

As might be expected, absent a seemingly-never-to-occur planetary rejection of religious nonsense, things have gotten ever worse, and will continue to deteriorate, until our entire planet looks much like the desert that now covers the Fertile Crescent, the birthplace of civilization. Humans continue to overbreed and to cover and to consume the planet like maggots on a dead possum. And to make war over vain things.

And the waste from such overbreeding, and from the making of too many things for the killing of one another and for the amusement of the too many humans already made and not killed, combines with the flatulence of their animals, in geometrically growing global genocide, to overheat the planet until the oceans become vapor and the once blue and green of life dries, decays, and burns, leaving our world—by the standards of the now living—dead.

Then, those heretofore Raptured at the midnight beginning of 2000 C.E. may return to the planet to tidy things up for the return of the Messiah. But that won’t concern any of us, for we will be one with the 6.000 year old fossils left from before Noah’s Flood.

Some of the not Raptured living humans may now have children who will be old enough this coming new year to attend Camp Quest, from whose rolls not a soul was Raptured. And such are now old enough to know what has befallen us all, and just why they have no meaningful eternal future and will be forever denied the salvation vainly still preached by certain religiously deceived among the ranks of the living damned.

For such untutored youth, and to refresh the aging memories of others, who might rather forget, you are invited to review, and to pass on as a sacred, if solemn, history, the here reproduced document that first announced what has befallen us, and what is, unless certain seemingly impossible things are realized, our hopeless, and unchangeable, fate.

Happy New Year.

Edwin.

ON THE TRANSUBSTANTIATION OF THE WORLD:

THE REVELATION TO EDWIN

This is the way the world ends

This is the way the world ends

This is the way the world ends

Not with a bang but a whimper.

T.S. Eliot

Edwin, unto those who yet remain for the eternity to come, to all those left behind who, though damned, yet know it not, Greetings. Little of comfort can be said or given unto you, save the assurance that truth, however dire, should be valued of more worth than the vanity of false belief and the futile imagining of a vain thing.

I erred when last I wrote, in false strayed prophecy, that the world would not end and that the rapture would not come. On the midnight stroke that called in the 2000th year of our Lord, this, our world, ended. The saved saints, living and dead, were raptured into Heaven. We, and all of us who remain–who you must now know are the eternally damned–were left behind. Left behind, forever, without hope, in a world that has been utterly destroyed. Left in a world beyond repair. Left in a world that is, with no hope of redemption, ruined.

That which had been prophesied, this horror foretold, was not at once known to have been so fully and so finally fulfilled. There were only small things to be seen as signs. The weather was too warm, and cats seemed less opaque than usual. Cats, we note too late, are not mentioned in the Bible. Dogs are mentioned eight and thirty times. Now know we why. Cats know why too. Cats have always known.

The truth, the horror, of what had happened was made known to me, for reasons I neither know nor understand, in a mighty vision. Whether in the body or out of it, whether asleep or not, I can in no wise truly say. I only know it was revealed unto me that our world is now past and forever gone. And that I am charged to tell you.

Hope of supernatural salvation for any who remain is likewise gone, for the blessed of the almighty power, all of the chosen elect, have been raptured away. We who are left are left unto eternity, denied forever and forever the beatific vision, denied the fulfillment of the blessed hope. There will never be offered another chance to gain that heavenly world beyond the natural world. We are all alone, with our fallible human reasoning, in our world that lack of faith destroyed. The only world we have ever had. No supernatural power will ever visit us again. We
are alone for all time, with only ourselves to guide and save us.

How, might one ask, as I asked, can our world have ended, yet seem so solidly to continue and appear so plainly to remain? So asked I in my vision, and the answer as a mystery came. With the mystery of that answer came the charge to publish the truth abroad–to assure the anguish of all of us who are fellow travelers on this orb that was first created and lately then destroyed.

There appeared before me a book, the edges of which were blackened and burned, as in a refiner’s fire, and the seals of which book, wherewithal it had been sealed, had been broken asunder. And the book was open unto a page. And the words upon that charred and tattered page could still be plainly seen and clearly read. And these were the words that were thereupon writ:

Know thou, doomed mortal, that thy world hath ended. It ended in the first moments of the first day of the first month of the year you call 2000. The Rapture hath come. It came as the world ended, and those who were chosen to be saved have been taken away unto a new Heaven and a new Earth. All who are ever to be raptured have been raptured, and all those not then raptured are never to be raptured. Those not raptured are left behind, by Divine Design, to live out their mortal lives in a world that hath now ended, a world in which they, the not saved and the not raptured, must henceforth forever remain.

Then asked I, through terror and tears, unto the unknown darkness about me, how our wrecked and ruined and wretched world could still so sentient seem.

And a voice, likened unto a voice of doom, sounding as the taste of wormwood and gall, answered from out a whirlwind unto me, with directions to tell the answer unto you, my fellow mortals, who along with me alike to death are damned:

Hear, Oh fool, thou who would not see the supernatural or on faith believe that which was unseen. Know thee, in this final answer–for no further answer shall ever come–that thy world has been transubstantiated, with all of its substance forever changed, with only the accidents of its appearance as land, sea and sky remaining, that cause it to seem, in each of its particulars, to those of undiscerning hearts, immutable and unchanged. As it was in the days of Noah, so has it now been finally fulfilled as it had been formerly forever of old foretold.

As it was in the time of Noah! The flood, the ark, the animals, the drowned children. Only eight adult humans spared. Only four breeding pairs of humans left alive when finally dried the heavenly waters that had choked the life from all other adults and from all children, both in and out of the womb, from those who, in person or by the hands of their doomed mothers, scratched and screamed, as their lives slowly ended, against the splintery sides of the ark of salvation, as it floated above their weakened forms that finally sunk beneath the righteous waves. Seven pairs of every clean animal were mercifully spared. Those not saved then died. Their fate was to be preferred to that of those not saved this time, to the fate of those condemned to live where faith has failed.

I then understood this vision granted me. Those awaiting the rapture of the blessed were as foolish virgins awaiting their bridegrooms while despising their coming. Few were chosen, and few were taken. It was not written how many would be saved, only that it would be as in the time of Noah, and surely it was so. The religiously pious, the self- righteous, those assured unto themselves of their goodness and of their salvation, all are as fully denied as are those who, through the use of reason, reject untestable faith as folly.

Heed not the much speaking yet to come from false preachers, for such fools are as sure to die as you. Laugh at pretenders who claim knowledge, at those who dare presume upon eternal truth, for they are here with all of us, un-raptured and alone in a transubstantiated world, in a world wherein their faith has failed.

My charge is now completed, and my revelation has been revealed. It remains but to remind you that only our human minds, with their naturally evolved abilities to create and learn and reason, yet abide. Nothing supernatural will ever exist for us, or be available unto us. What can be done by humankind in our new world, where mortals live for this life alone and can look neither to hopes of immortality nor to any power or powers beyond the bounty and boundaries of our natural world, cannot now be known, because such a thing has never yet been fully attempted or truly tried.

We have no choice, it seems, but to live in our world without faith in anything beyond ourselves. For that is all we have. Perhaps it is all that we have ever had. But it is enough.

May the years yet to come unto you bring you peace and joy. And do take heart, for you have this day seen the prophesy fulfilled that there will be Kagin’s Columns yet to come.

Edwin Kagin.

Atheist News from Edwin Kagin December 26,, 2007

AMERICAN ATHEISTS

ATHEIST, FIRST AMENDMENT ACTIVIST

JOE ZAMECKI GUEST THURSDAY ON

ANSWERS IN ATHEISM INTERNET RADIO

JOE ZAMECKI, Texas State Director for American Atheists will be the guest on Thursday night, December 27, 2007 on the “Answers in Atheism” internet radio program.

Find out what’s happening on the First Amendment front in Texas! Tune in beginning at 7:00 PM ET (check your local time zone) at http://www.answersinatheism.net . “Answers in Atheism” is hosted by the curmudgeon Edwin Kagin. Call in toll free with questions or comments to 877.814.9287 or local 859.384.7000 or send e-mail to theshow@answersinatheism.net

WHO & WHAT: Joe Zamecki, Texas State Director for American Atheists on the “Answers in Atheism” internet radio program.

WHEN: Tomorrow, Thursday December 27, 2007 beginning at 7:00 PM — check local listings.

WHERE: http://www.answersinatheism.net

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)

Atheists Radio X-MAS EVE Bash Update, by Edwin Kagin

AMERICAN ATHEISTS

http://www.atheists.org

Update: 12/24/07

ELLEN JOHNSON TO LEAD OFF

HERETICS & BLASPHEMERS GODLESS X-MAS

INTERNET PARTY “CHRISTMAS” EVE

ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists will lead off a roster of prominent Atheist, Freethought, Humanist and other non-believer representatives tonight on the first annual HERETICS & BLASPHEMERS GODLESS X-MAS PARTY streaming live on the internet.

Hosted by Edwin Kagin, the broadcast will run from 8:00 PM – 10:00 PM ET (check local time zone) on Answers in Atheism, at http://www.answersinatheism.net . Other guests will include:

ARLENE-MARIE, Michigan State Director, American Atheists

ED BUCKNER, Atlanta Freethought Society

FRED EDWORDS, American Humanist Association

TOM FLYNN, Council for Secular Humanism

CHRIS LINDSTROM, Camp Quest West

DAVE SILVERMAN, Communications Director, American Atheists

“WHAT’S AN ATHEIST — or some other heretic — to do on ‘Christmas Eve,’ anyway?” Good question!

So, if you don’t have a special get-together planned for this coming Monday night, pour a goblet of your favorite potion, saunter on up to the computer and spend a very special evening with Edwin Kagin and other non-believers across the country for the First Annual

HERETICS AND BLASPHEMERS GODLESS X-MAS PARTY

live from beautiful Kagin Manor. The fun begins at 8:00 PM ET with special guests and a toll-free number you can call to share thoughts, gripes, suggestions and anything else on your mind relevant to the X-MAS — and we do mean X-MAS! — season. It’s all airing on the hot new internet radio program “Answers in Atheism” at http://www.answersinatheism.net . Call Toll Free 877.814.9287 or local 859.384.7000 , or email to theshow@answersinatheism.net . Fre
ethought music and stories of famous freethinkers will be on the program… A special two hour extravaganza!

Edwin Kagin is National Legal Director for American Atheists. He and wife Helen Kagin are co-founders of Camp Quest, a national summer camp program for the children of Atheists, Freethinkers, Humanists and other non-believers.

WHO & WHAT: HERETICS AND BLASPHEMERS GODLESS X-MASS PARTY hosted by Edwin & Helen Kagin and the staff of “Answers in Atheism”

WHEN: “Christmas” (X-mass) Eve, this Monday, December 24, 8:00 – 10:00 PM ET, check your time zone

WHERE: “Answers in Atheism” internet radio, http://www.answersinatheism.net

(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)