This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
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Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread
What just happened?
An old favorite for you: Happy everything.
http://alturl.com/4ssti
Do I even want to know what’s in Santa’s bag?
Keep Mish in Mish-mush!!!
I don’t come ’round these parts much because I don’t care for argument. While I am fairly good at argument I don’t enjoy it. Others peel themselves raw much better and more readily than I can even in my wildest dreams.
That said and, I can only imagine, having challenged those who feel at home in such cold climes, I will stop with this:
Merry Christmas to All. And to All a Good Night.
May each of you feel free to interpret my greeting according to your own standards.
Not beating up nor beating down. Just some of that old, easy rolling spirit. The ghost of the moment however it tickles you.
Hey! Did you notice? The days are getting longer! Whoa! How cool is that?
*Is it any wonder we are glad?*
No, but argue amongst yourselves if you must. I will simply try to sleep until tomorrow when I will comb the library for books to give to grandsons. Leave it to grampa to have no imagination at all. How can I compete with the latest game machine that makes imagination a relic of a previous age? Still, I strive to teach, even if weakly.
Shit. The kids can’t even wash dishes and they both think they are on the verge of taking the family car for indeterminate reasons. Sometimes Christmas is a cause to weep.
Next hopeless cause: to instill the notion that all privileges have attendant responsibilities. Weep for me, my friends, for I am on a fool’s errand.
May I ask how old they are? I think books for christmas is a wonderful tradition.
Chas:
:nods: It’s not wise to diss the Mish.
CW, Merry Mishmush, hope it’s a good one.
@yazikus
Twelve and fourteen. Coming twenty something, don’cha know.
For the younger I’m considering Gary Larson’s There’s A Hair In My Dirt! because he’s the one that always makes a funny face for the camera. Anything Larsonesque suits him. I think.
For the elder man cub, I’m thinking my copy of Einstein’s Relativity. Mostly because I think he needs to know buttressed by my geekiness. (just added geekiness to FF dictionary)
But my expectation is low; about four months ago I gave him my copy of The God Particle taking pains to point out the wonderful dialog between the author and Democritus. To date there is no feedback nor indication that he has cracked the cover. But he is hell on killing imaginary zombies on the BigScreenTeeeeeVeeee! Can do so for entire weekends. Pity that he can’t write one line of code.
________________
Oh! Caine! Flower of Intense Purpose and Boggling Creativity!
I assure you that this Mishmush will be memorable. If for nothing else but it’s forgetability. (another addition to FF dictionary)
*recalls the ones of old when I had full control of lighting the tree . . . vast sigh . . . *
May all Your Days be as Mishmush. Also, Happy New Year filled with lengthening days!
Leave now to seat in new brake pads installed yesterday. Much rapid stopping is anticipated.
Mishmus!
Indeed . . .
I love you all and am so very glad to be so persuaded.
Holidays!!
Saturnalia ends today.
Mikhail Kalashnikov died, age 94.
Regardless of what you think of the man and the weapon he created, he is a significant figure of the past one hundred years. His weapon may have become the tool of communist expansion and terrorism, but he is no worse than (read: is equally as awful as) any American, British, Belgian, German, Israeli, French or other gun designer.
http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/2536074-rifle-designer-mikhail-kalashnikov-dead-94.html
Yes, left0ver1under. He did change the world by putting power into the hands of the average guy. His death will be more noticed less than what the average guy does with his boon.
Ask not what is in the bag, for it is you.
*sigh*
I like the picture, PZ.
And, Crudely Wrott, I <3 Einstein’s Relativity.. Among other things, it’s proof that one can write clearly about any subject.
Happy Yuletide, Solstice, Christmas, Mithras’ Birthday, and Holidays to you all.
oops–strike “more” before “noticed less” and dance around such as you will. You dance so nicely and with precision and intent,
My intent was not to mislead or imply hidden agendas by leaving that trailing comma @15.
NB. My intent is always to further deeper thought and colorful comment. Seeing as you are all so good at that sort of thing.
Happy Christmas and Merry New Year.
Period.
Love,
Crudely
@Markita:
Einstein writes in short chapters. That is good form for I find it necessary to read them several times in order to understand.
Imagine doing that with Dostoyevsky or King. It would take a lifetime and even then you would have no assurance of “what?”.
Go then. And sin no more.
Today I celebrate the theft of the northeners’ sunshine. With white wine. In the sun. Did I mention sunshine? You can have it back in a few months, when I’ve finished with it.
Merry solstice everyone.
. . . or, as famously published, Go, and sin on more.
Now man cub the first has challenged me to an actual board game. Actual face to face at a table. I’m doubly impressed.
Will return in the Lounge with results. And declarations of happiness . . . I hope.
@18 Lofty:
I’ll drink to that my fellow southern-hemisphereian. I think I’ll stick to cider though as wine doesn’t do it for me.
Listening to that song right now for the umpteenth time this holiday season.
On the road tomorrow for a few days of seasonal holiday with my parents and my sister.
• Gifts bought
• Packing . . . sort of started . . . o.k., o.k., fine . . . laundry started
• Electro-mechanical metal-and-plastic enclosed conveyance fueled
• Bananas and breakfast bars stocked for both legs of the drive
• Route to cleverly avoid the nightmarish driving experience that is U.S. Interstate 35 in Texas planned
• Tea for tomorrow morning’s steeping and drinking selected
• Psychological preparation for three days with conservative Christian parents . . . in process.
Best wishes to all and sundry for whatever you may regard this time of year, even for no special reason at all, and with hope the days find you and your loved ones in good health, traveling safely, surprised by beautiful moments of peace and joy and compassion, and welcoming some small respite from the world’s injuries.
I continue in gratitude to the community here for as fine and powerful an education as any I have ever received. I remain, I hope,
Still learning,
Robert
Lofty:
Almont, ND:
Partly cloudy. High -8F. Winds S at 10 to 20 mph. Currently -12 °F (Feels Like -30 °F). Cloudy skies this evening. A few snow showers developing late. Low -12F. Winds S at 15 to 25 mph. Chance of snow 40%.
I’m having red wine. Zinfandel, in my toasty warm house. I’m pretending outside doesn’t exist.
Desert Son:
All the best, Robert! You’ll sail right through, I’m sure. (Happy thoughts, think happy thoughts!) Stay safe.
The things one learns on the Internets, part eleventy-thousand: One of the Australian sign language gestures for “holiday”:
http://www.auslan.org.au/dictionary/words/holiday-2.html
I have to wonder how it arose. The upraised middle finger has been a rude gesture for a long time. Could it have been deliberate? “Feck you lot, I’m off!”
Caine at #23:
Many thanks! I remain positive!
That sounds lovely! Last week I had a delightful zinfandel early in the week, very nice. I wish you warmth in the midst of a Great Plains winter!
Still learning,
Robert
Greta’s just put up an animated version of white wine.
Caine:
Enjoy.
The neighbors have one of those inflated-fabric lawn decorations for Christmas. It’s a penguin, and looks okay when the blower is running. When they shut off the electricity, it collapses over backward as if it were sleeping. The blower sticks up through the fabric at the crotch region, and it looks like a sleeping penguin with an enormous erection.
The tent is definitely up. Happy holiday, indeed.
Memyambal
Thank you, I needed a laugh. I’ve been having a very frustrating day with UPS, whose delivery person apparently left a package for us somewhere in the complex, but corporate has no idea where and are apparently such incompetent jackasses that a manager hasn’t just called the delivery person and ask what the fuck they did with it, nor can they say when this simple task will occur, other than within 8 days.
Crudely Wrott
Just wanted you to know that I shared your spider post with a friend who I believe is a very good judge of literature and she was keenly interested in you and what else you may have written as well as moved.
Merry Shitscram, jerks.
And a Hyper Ape Yawn!
The Sunday New York Times Book Review for Dec 22, 2013
The ‘By The Book’ interview
Subject, Beil DeGrasse Tyson
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/books/review/neil-degrasse-tyson-by-the-book.html?ref=review&_r=0
When asked for the greatest books ever written about astronomy his answer was,
“Because the field of study changes so rapidly, any book that’s great in one decade becomes hopelessly obsolete by the next. But if I am forced to pick one, it would be Carl Sagan’s “Cosmos” (1980). Not for the science it taught, but for how effectively the book shared why science matters — or should matter — to every citizen of the world.”
He also plugs for books written decades, even (gasp) centuries, ago and some by women.
@ Bicabonate #29:
Please meet me in the Lounge. I’m buying.
dornierpfeil @32: Tyson is an ass. Astronomia nova is miles ahead of anything by Sagan. Fucker didn’t even mention Kepler, Copernicus or Brahe.
I’m seeing in Christmas Eve with Jeff Mills Live in Japan 2003.
Tomorrow’s another YouTube video. (Eves passim.)
Desert Son – *pouncehug* It is truly a pleasure to know you. May your visit with your parents hold few traumas. Merry Squidmas!
David:
Me?
But I’m here.
Here, in my home.
How can I be in the bag too?
Is there another me out there?
One that is battered, broken, beaten…and more than a little bloody, I’d guess, given what’s dripping out of the sack, unless that’s dribble.
Hmmm, now I’m curious who shall receive the gift of me from Demonic Santa…
Here‘s an uplifting xmas message for y’all.
I’m currently and until Jan 19 resigned to a 10Gb limit on a horribly slow USB stick connection, so expert more quiet for a while. But then 1Gbps. Or so they promise.
Everyone.
BeHappyNow.
That’s an Order.
happyhappyhappy
NOW
Does anyone notice the FTB banner blocks the top field (desired username) during registration? Or maybe it’s just my browser…
Anyway I was reading this blog in NYT:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/raw-milk-a-hazard-for-children-and-pregnant-women/
One of the commenters “raw milk mike” seems familiar, judging by the nonsense he spouts, lack of peer reviewed evidence he comes up with and obvious cherry picking of data. Not that I think the webmaster of a tinfoil hat site would actually care about what a bunch of people on the Times blog say, but it’s funny to imagine (not really).
Merry Cthuletide, everyone!
My house flooded this morning. The river by my house is now flowing through my living room. Worst weather ever. Zero stars, would not buy again.
Meanwhile, in TX:
http://www.ketknbc.com/news/video-tx-man-wants-to-pull-pregnant-wife-off-life
This is all kinds of fucked up. *rage*
Merry Christmas, Horde. I know I haven’t been posting of late – November and December were very busy months at work. (For those who don’t know, I started in October as a trainee immigration lawyer.)
It is a saddening line of work to be in. Every day the UK’s immigration system puts more people through a cruel and senseless hell. Obviously I can’t talk about my own clients’ cases, but I can say in general terms that things are very bad. And the system is getting worse rather than better. The new immigration bill (which is expressly designed to create a “hostile environment” for irregular migrants) will likely soon be law, racist “spot checks” by immigration officers are to continue, and LGBT people are still being returned to Uganda at a time when that country has just passed a new and harsher anti-gay law. And no concessions are made for migrants who are sick, disabled or traumatized.
Thankfully I have a week off work now, and I’m home for Christmas. I finally got around to writing a blog post, the first one in months.
Hello, everyone! Remember how I mentioned that Skepchick was starting a parenting blog and yours truly was going to write some things? Here’s my first article on Sesame Street.
Hi Walton!
@42
Very sorry to hear about the flooding in your house.
Callinectes, I’m so sorry you have found a river in your house. Very relieved you are okay though. Do you have a place to stay all set up? Anything I can do?
Wylann:
Yeah, it is fucked up that Texas is legally able to circumvent a person’s final directives in order to keep a fetus alive.
Lucky I even made it onto this site… I use the Tor network and FTB uses WordPress, which in turn uses CloudFlare, an internet service that usually serves me with a CAPTCHA screen blocking my access to all FTB blogs.
Trouble is, I find nearly all of their CAPTCHA graphics to be unreadable, failing to pass 4 out of 5 tries, which is ridiculous, I’ve never seen such unreadable letters in a CAPTCHA before. It’s so bad, I had to realize I’m nearly locked out of FTB because it rejects traffic from anonymizer proxies.
I tried to complain to CloudFlare, but the only way to get a message to them that I could find on their website was to create an account and then submit a Support Ticket. But their submission form was so broken it would not even submit (it asked for an item of info but presented no box to enter it into).
I had the same problem with JesusandMo.com. I emailed the author, he replied promptly and said, “Try now” and it Lo! it worked. I asked him what he did, he said this:
So I’m back into JesusandMo.com now.
I’ve done my best with CloudFlare. I asked the author of J&M if he felt like contacting CloudFlare to tell them they need to do better. But I don’t suppose he thinks he still has a dog in this fight. I also sent PZ an email, but then I managed to get into this site without CloudFlare butting in and so I emailed him again to tell him the problem seemed to have been fixed and thanked him on an assumption he’d changed a setting or something. Now I know better, the problem has not been fixed, it just depends on what profile I am given when I log in to Tor. Sometimes I get a CloudFlare CAPTCHA screen, but the CAPTCHA graphics are in a different style that is generally readable.
It’s not an issue with Pharyngula, it’s an issue with CloudFlare->WordPress->FTB->Pharyngula. Does anyone have any suggestions? I intend to keep using Tor rather than give up anonymity. I’ve already swallowed the bitter pill of not being able to watch YouTube unless the video is in HTML5, so I am committed to this course. Unless I’m on Tor, I no longer interact much with websites, I just look at them.
Cryptomaniac, I’ve never had to deal with cloudflare (thankfully), but I have the same reading the graphic problem with the captcha yahoo uses on flickr. They have an audio option on their captcha though, which I use with no problem. Does cloudflare not have an audio option? I thought that was fairly standard on captcha these days.
Thanks, but when I try the audio option, I am told (via audio) that my network traffic is “unusual” and they therefore cannot serve an audio captcha. On one occasion for some reason they did serve one but I could not even *begin* to make out what was being said! It was considerably worse than the graphics – amazing considering how awful the graphics are.
When I said 4 out of 5 attempts fail, I was being too generous. It’s more like 9 out of 10. Really.
BTW, my vision is quite good, and my hearing is quite good. It isn’t me! It’s CloudFlare, they have no excuse for using such noisy graphics and audio recordings. CAPTCHA means Completely Automated Program to Tell Computers and Humans Apart. Their CAPTCHAs are by self-referential definition not in fact CAPTCHAs.
I’m just rambling now, aren’t I? This is what happens when I’m upset on the internet.
Cryptomaniac,
Since this probably isn’t a problem PZ can fix by himself (since it’s FTB-wide), try using this contact form:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/technical-support/
Callinectes
So sorry to hear that. I hope all loved ones and pets are safe and that you’re able to get this horrible situation resolved swiftly.
Callinectes
I’m sorry to hear it. Hopefully the damage is rectifiable and swiftly rectified.
Rescued by my uncle in his 4×4. Apparently the village was evacuated, but the message (and the authorities) didn’t get as far as my end of the woods. I’m freakin’ exhausted.
I do a lot of downloading, and CAPTCHAs are getting tougher all over. Just today a new black/white contrast style rolled out that I’m finding damn near impossible.
Well, that sounds scary.
I’m glad your uncle was there for you, Callinectes. I hope you can have some rest, wherever you’re staying now.
Hi, chigau. *waves*
Merry Christmas and Squiddly Greetings, Walton.
Perhaps your professional efforts will be meaningful in creating a more welcome climate for people. Everywhere.
___________
Here’s hoping for a Dry New Year for Callinectes. Good to see you seem to be weathering the weather well. Do hold on. Remember, it’s not how how you swim, it’s how you hold your breath.
Thanks Beatrice #53, I submitted about a ten thousand word report to them.
Chas #57: I think those are the same graphics, also the letters are so fuzzy that where they touch or come close it’s impossible to tell what’s what. Are we on the same page? Is there also a box where you can send a 100-chr max msg to the site owner (don’t bother, nothing happens, I did that 3 times, doesn’t even indicate which site anyway: theirs or the one you’re being blocked from!)?
Dealing with internet issues is tougher than things used to be. I remember a day when you just grabbed the phone, talked to a person who was real, live and *pleasant*, and then the problem got fixed. Soon. (Then again, it was uphill to school – both ways. And there was no air.) I’m only here now because I’m still in the same Tor session. As soon as I log out and back in, I’ll probably be blocked again.
Merry Christmas, everyone! From Kate in Australia.
katkinkate, a merry mishmush to you! I hope it’s a good one.
I always thought that the best CAPTCHA would be one in which there’s no fucking pattern at all on the screen, and you’re supposed to guess not only the alphabet employed, but the font, the font features (underlining, bolding), and the actual characters presented. Hang a cookie on the page, and let people try as many times as they like.
If they give up after <50 tries, they're human.
Here’s some general good wishes for all TDers, upside down (I’m looking at you, katkinkate) or otherwise.
*waves at everyone*
Yesterday, Jeff Mills.
Today, you’ll have to settle for Carl Cox.
http://www.mixcloud.com/CarlCox/carl-cox-global-soul-funk-jazz-and-classic-house-xmas-special/
(There’s a whole load of Jackson Five in there!)
See you in 2014. :-)
Now that y’all have nudged me into thinking about it, some of us are right side up, some are wrong side down and an unknown number of us are either left, west or crooked.
Such a marvel would not exist without gravity.
This is, to be weighty, a grave situation.
If only “down” were not intuitive . . .
. . . we’d all be properly collated.
Of course, if that were so, there would be no use for this forum.
Reality gives such sly gifts to us each of the other 364.25 days.
Alexandra #45, I had trouble accessing your site too! (see this comment for background.) I left a msg. for the site admins. But looking at the page for the plugin that blocked me, it seems that the form presented to contact the site admins might be just a decoy that doesn’t actually send anything to anyone (yeah, the plugin actually brags that it sometimes does that!).
Either way, this issue too is on a WordPress-powered blog. WordPress is setting itself up for losing a lot of visitors for its clientele. Proxy servers are a lot more popular now that the NSA story is out, and the Tor network I use (which provides anonymizing-PLUS) claims to be growing rapidly.
Here I am trying to innocently block websites from learning too much about me and my workstation, and I’m being heavily penalized for it by supposedly the very nicest of people! I can’t even watch YouTube unless the vid. is in HTML5. The only people who want my personal info are hackers. Non-hackers should not be upset if their website can’t obtain unnecessary details of their visitors.
WordPress, and CloudFlare: you are breaking the web. That’s not nice. Stop it please.
Cryptomaniac:
I’ll bring it up with the admins after Xmas– honestly, no one wants a drunken email from me on Xmas eve. ;)
Callinectes – I’m so sorry about your flooding, but I am glad you are safe. *hugs*
Walton – *pouncehug* Merry Christmas!
katkinkate – Merry Christmas!
Merry Happy everyone!
Happy holiday(s), or not
Unfortunately, to the rest of the world, people who use TOR are crazy, creepy hackers and by not rolling over and subjecting yourself to the NSA, you’re probably some sort of terrorist or something.
*sigh*
(You know how they caught that Harvard bomb threat guy, right? He was the *only person* who used TOR on Harvard networks in the hours leading up to the emails.)
My thanks to Atheist Santa for granting my Christmas wish.
Y’know, if our cobbled together temporary internets didn’t shut down or have a minor stroke every half hour, I’d probably be able to keep up.
Chigau, you’re on temporary internets? What happened?
Caine
I am at my parent’s place and she it not connected.
The sibling does something arcane that causes wifi to be but its powers are weak.
I just need to be patient.
Chigau:
Ah. I’m familiar with wifi of weak powers. It’s hard to be patient.
Mister quite likes the Django Reinhardt CDs I got him for Xmas. *phew*
This is my last comment on the indirect discussion. Bring your creationists here.
From a more philosophical perspective, why should we as rational beings, not accept what you even admit, “seems” to be common sense if that is our reality??
Because it simply doesn’t fit the facts! It contradicts loads of them! It only fits at a quite superficial first glance!
Duh! :-)
Even accepting all that, “it’s true” doesn’t logically follow from “it’s probably true”.
*sigh* Mutations are random, but selection is not, it’s determined by the environment. Mutation frequencies are known and can be looked up; to really understand the whole thing requires an understanding of quantum chemistry and population biology, two very mathematical fields.
Ever observed life being designed?
The senses give us facts, not explanations. The theory of evolution by mutation, selection and drift does not consist of “I can see it”; and neither does creationism.
Again that embarrassing jump from “it’s probably true” to “it’s true!! it’s true!! it’s true!!”.
Please.
Which isn’t true. Simple example:
Metaphysical hypothesis that appeals to the supernatural: the sun will only rise tomorrow if we sacrifice living human hearts today.
Scientific test: stop that practice and see what happens.
That experiment was conducted 500 years ago. We’re still observing the unchanged results.
The untestable is beyond the reach of science. Not all religious ideas are untestable. Many have been tested.
Say anything specific about the designer, and we can test whether a designer with those specific characteristics exists.
Keep in mind that simple falsification isn’t the only part of the scientific method. The other part is the principle of parsimony: no more entities should be assumed to exist than necessary. If there’s no reason to make an assumption, don’t make that assumption; make it when the data require it, and only then.
What, why?
Science could. It just, as it turns out, doesn’t need to.
Evolutionary epistemology explains not only why common sense works pretty well, but also why it fails where it does fail, and why it fails in the ways it does.
Figure out the blockquote fails yourself, jonmilne, and bring your creationists here if they’re still interested. It’s 1 in the morning, I have to go to bed.
My eyes have seen the horrors of the latest Christmas episode of Doctor Who.
What the ever loving fuck was that thing?
I’ve been having no trouble accessing FTB blogs since yesterday. No blocking for the last 8 or 10 logins. I think something got fixed somewhere. Thanks for everyone’s help. [Now, the Preview window isn’t working, but that I can live with].
I can read Alexandra’s blog, I just can’t submit a comment. Spent 15 minutes writing one (had to do some research) and then couldn’t share it! Don’t worry Alexandra, I’m not griping at you, it’s the internet in general, thanks partly to the NSA, that I’m griping at. I saved the comment in a text file, I might yet post it!
Ed Snowden put out his own Christmas Message (BBC). In it he is shown using one of his laptops. It has a ‘Tor‘ sticker on it. The only ‘brand endorsement’ on it. I feel slightly better now.
> 24 hrs between Thunderdome posts?
here‘s some white guys playing reggae in the snow.
(my little brother on drums)
Janine,
re:Doctor Who
I have no idea. It made no sense. It wasn’t even appropriately cheesy to cover the lack of sense. The height of wit was Capaldi’s “Do you know how to fly this thing?” in the end. Or maybe I was just happy it was over and got too generous.
from comments on the Mary Sue review:
… and to all, a good night …
Threadcrupt. I blame it all on Xmas.
Pelamun is flying in from Japan this evening, so if anyone wants to pass on USB beers, cookies, hugs etc, post below and I will make sure they get passed on.
*heap of Newtonmas cookies*
theophontes
big, squishy hugses for Pelamun
and some for yourself
(cross posted from the Lounge)
Caine? You’re probably not here yet, but if you see this, I need your advice (or anyone else who may know of such things) Tonight a wild rat made its way into our house and got into a fight with my pet rat Jules. He has two bite wounds. They are both superficial, and I washed him as best as I could. Obviously I’m calling a vet in the morning, buts its 4 am now and I’m wondering what I should do?
Dutchgirl
Clicking on Caine’s nym will take you to her blog.
Thank you chigau, but I’m thinking by the time she can reply, I will have been able to speak to a vet. Its 5:30 am here now. It was quite the night adventure. No sleep for me now. At least Dutchbaby slept through the whole thing.
Hey, NightShade. Would you want to have every Bit of your personal information read and collected from people you don’t even know. I have to say, TOR & other proxies are one of the only ways to circumnavigate that.
Dutchgirl:
Rats below! That’s a hell of a thing to have happen. Washing the wounds out well is the best thing, getting to the doctor is the next step. You’ll probably be given a course of antibiotics for Jules. I don’t know how far away you are from your vet – we have a long trip and can only get to town 3 days of the week, so our vet keeps us stocked up with Baytril. You might see if your vet would be willing to prescribe you a bottle to keep at home, that way you can start antibiotics right away in emergencies. If rats are a vector for rabies where you are, your vet might ask you to keep Jules quarantined.
In this case, there really wasn’t anything else to do but clean the wounds and keep Jules warm and comforted (that must have been scary for him) until you got to the vet.
Hey, pakicetus. You completely misread NightShadeQueen, so get off your high horse.
Thanks Caine! Jules doesn’t appear to be in pain, but the larger bite is sensitive. Calling the vet now. Luckily we live in town and no rabies here.
Dutchgirl, good news, that! Yes, I imagine the bites will be painful. You can get metacam for Jules, to help with the pain. The big thing is to prevent an infection. This wouldn’t really be any sort of a deal at all if it had been another pet rat – fights do happen, and rats heal very quickly. With a wild rat, though, you just don’t know what they might be carrying, so infection is more of a worry.
My wireless is acting up and I’m having a very bad day, so I’m out. Dutchgirl, I hope Jules is well, please keep me updated. For anyone who might e-mail or call, I’m taking tonight off, I’m not ignoring you.
Dutchgirl, I hope Jules is feeling fine tomorrow. The vet will know what to do, though it sucks that a vet is required.
Stupid interlopers.
Well.
That has striking resemblance to a blizzard.
I’ve written an educational Android app that might be of interest to those who frequent this forum. It allows using Bayes’ theorem to assess the probability that God exists.
It starts by asking the user to consider what he or she means by God, then presents a series of observations. The user is asked to indicate how consistent each observation is with the existence and non-existence of God. In the end, a probability is computed for whether God exists. Rather than deal with actual numbers up front, the app asks for input and shows results in terms of a number of stars with a qualitative description (e.g., 0 stars = “completely unlikely”).
At minimum, a religious person using this app will get a strong dose of cognitive dissonance. I don’t think it is possible to answer the questions honestly and get a high probability of a loving, omnipotent god. (The user can also specify other gods, e.g., indifferent, evil, …) Depending on how much use it gets, I’m also thinking to write similar apps for climate change and evolution.
Link to app
Dutchgirl – I wish Jules a speedy recovery. *hugs*
Hi there. Dragonfang has finally responded, though I’m showing a later response of his after I told him that he needed to pony up with evidence. His excuse for why he can’t come to FTB incidentally, (and the same also applies of medic and others) is that he’s banned from FTB, although he wasn’t specific about what his username was. In any case, I need help with the response he gave:
There’s also another poster called RoderickSpode, who also says he’s banned from FTB under another username and can’t comment here. He replied to my query as to why creationists call evolution a “fraud” with this:
I could do with as much help as possible with these.
Thanks :)
Jon
Since they haven’t evidenced any claim the there is a conspiracy with evidence, their OPINIONS are dismissed as fuckwittery. Either pony up real evidence, not idiotic “possibilities”, or shut the fuck up like ignorant and evidenceless liars and bullshitters would do if they had honesty and integrity; which they obviously lack.
Oh, and JonMilne, I would tend to think that the admission that they have been banned from FtB in reality says all you can reasonably conclude and them and their message is that they are nothing but ignorant liars and bullshitters who were just caught lying and bullshitting. No other conclusion makes sense, as FtB is a series of independent blogs, as anybody who isn’t lying and bullshitting would know.
And clean up my double use of evidence in my first sentence in #105 if you copypasta.
Actually RoderickSpode has clarified the situation. While not giving his username, he says he’s not banned as such but he has commented before on FTB and apparently found the atmosphere he faced “toxic” which is why he’d rather stick to the forum he’s on. So while I have no mind to tangle with DragonFang anymore, I think since it’s the first time Roderick responded and he’s at least been semi-polite that I’d at least like to be able to provide a full response to him before I can then provide more responses that can simply ask for definitive evidence after he inevitably responds.
You don’t need to respond to any unevidenced allegations, and shouldn’t. Dismiss them and his imaginary deity from the get-go. Until evidence is provided by him, all he has is noise, ignorance, and presupposition.
JonMilne, keep in mind most creationists have this logical fallacy: they argue from philosophy/theology, not science. They will always loose the argument if it is utterly science based. They have to do a shift in argument to a philosophical one. Their general philosophical goal is “If I can show evolution is wrong, creationism is right”. The problem they don’t see is that all they show is that evolution is false (and that is only done with more science, not their OPINIONS or RELIGION), that is the not only logical conclusion available; their deity and creationism will be considered on their merits. Ergo, their imaginary deity and creationism must be shown with solid and conclusive physical evidence to exist, and be SCIENTIFICALLY correct and accepted. Never let them avoid doing and showing science.
Excuse me, this is ridiculous. How exactly does he believe scientists talk to each other?
If you just tell him that, and never explain to him why this is so, he’ll never figure it out. Instead, he’ll probably suppose you’re afraid and want to just shut him up so the pain goes away. That’s your weak point. That’s why you repeat yourself ad infinitum et nauseam in every discussion you participate in.
Long, frustrated reply to the creationists forthcoming in my next comment.
Jon Milne:
Why don’t you link to the forum and discussion then? That would be better than you only showing up here for other people to do your work for you.
Interesting choice of nym. Roderick Spode is a character in several of P.G. Wodehouse’s “Jeeves and Wooster” novels. When first encountered (in The Code of the Woosters), he is founder and head of a fascist organization “The Saviours of Britain”, more commonly known as the Black Shorts (by the time he formed the Saviours, all the shirts were taken). He persecutes Wooster and his friend Gussie Fink-Nottle unmercifully, but Jeeves eventually discovers his dark secret, and the words “I know all about Eulalie” (although in fact he doesn’t) enable Wooster to bend Spode to his will.
That’s true. However, the fact that this is a logical fallacy has nothing to do with religion vs. science.
Written like somebody who hasn’t read more than two scientific papers in his whole life. Rejecting “the truth” without evidence would look (and be) foolish, but disproving the truth would result in all the career advancements and Nobel-and-similar prizes you mentioned!
Every scientific paper proves that someone, somewhere, at some point, was wrong. Every single one. The more surprising the disproof, the more prestigious the journal that will accept to publish it; the more prestigious the journals you’ve published in, the better for your career, your chances at getting grants, and so on. (How extreme this is varies between countries, but it’s pretty bad in most.)
Few scientists indeed would trade a publication in Nature for Confucian allegiance to their former thesis supervisors.
This has a very simple explanation: sheer fatigue. Creationism is a PRATT. We’ve been refuting the same old tired arguments for years, some of us for decades, and there’s always a fresh new creationist who stupidly believes they’ve found a new argument no biologist could ever possibly have imagined. No wonder we shout “booooo-ring!” like Homer Simpson.
Duh, that’s because it’s not known how abiogenesis happened in every detail. A lot more progress has been made than most people (and any creationists) know, I strongly recommend the Wikipedia article and the papers it links to – but it’s not a fully, thoroughly understood problem yet, so there is no short answer.
What can I say other than LOL?
Preposterous according to what criteria? Without criteria, I’m afraid it’s just an argument from personal incredulity: .
Excuse me? It’s not like ID is somehow secret. There are whole books that desperately try to argue for it. ID is in the public square, it is on the table, and it has utterly failed there.
“Fraudulent” is a very different accusation; it’s not synonymous with “wrong”. I don’t think most IDeologists are fraudsters; I don’t think they don’t believe what they write. Some, however, are bullshitters at best.
That’s backwards. Biologists in the NAS USA disbelieve because they see no reason to believe, no data that can only (or most parsimoniously) be explained by assuming a god. It’s a consequence of their being biologists, not a set of tinted glasses they put on before they went into science and have never taken off.
There’s no belief about it. History is a science. It fulfills the criterion – it uses the scientific method: falsification and parsimony.
I genuinely don’t understand what that has to do with biology. ~:-|
Roderick has no idea what the world outside the USA looks like, has he?
Before Bush’s campaign in 2000, most Europeans didn’t even know any creationists still existed! Over here, it’s considered as self-evidently nutty as geocentrism and belief in a flat Earth! The only creationists my former thesis supervisor ever had to deal with were immigrants from Algeria or Tunisia!
It is all on the table. It has always been. The last biologist who was a creationist died in 1892, and his version of creationism would immediately, thoroughly and lastingly be mistaken for evolution by any modern creationist I know of.
Why are there creationists left in the USA? Because the school system there is a really bad joke. Public schools are funded by micro-local property taxes, so schools in poor neighborhoods are screamingly, grindingly, screechingly underfunded; teachers are paid next to nothing, so only those who aren’t qualified for a better-paying job become teachers, so there aren’t any good teachers, so there’s no reason to pay teachers a decent salary – vicious circle.
Absolutely. Admittedly, though, most of them don’t actually understand it; long-disproved nonsense like the idea of progress in evolution is still widespread among the general public.
Speaking of Dawkins, though, I strongly recommend his book Unweaving the Rainbow.
No, it’s taking back the argument. Creobots goal is to keep scientists always on the defensive.
What is needed, is what Asimov said he would do if he ever debated a creationist. He would point to a scientific library, say evolution is a scientific conclusion, then ask them to present scientific evidence for their theory, then sit down.
Scientists need to do that to creationists. Keep hammering home the point that no matter how they disbelieve and attempt futilely to refute evolution, at the end of the day, they must prove their imaginary deity with solid and conclusive physical evidence in order for science to even consider their idiocy; no presuppositions allowed. That way they can never *voila* slip in their imaginary deity.
Remember poor txpiper. He just couldn’t believe in random mutation/natural selection no matter how much evidence was produced to refute his disbelief; he just couldn’t give up on his deity. But, he finally recognized he couldn’t forward his inane theory since he couldn’t show evidence for a deity as we required. Frustrated the hell out of him as we weren’t accepting his presuppositions.
In the mortal words of Asimov, “Floosh”.
I don’t debate. I write.
What? When did he recognize that? Are you confusing his bannination for any insight on his part?
He didn’t really seem frustrated.
I am home.
and my interwebs works
smily smiley happy
Chigau, yay!
*smiles back at smiley chigau*
On another thread…
if the only really really reason for posting a snarky (off topic) comment is to provoke a fight with another commenter,
I could just not bother, eh?
test
Yay, chigau!
huggses for everyone!no, wait … T-dome
You Poopeyheads!
Been doing a bit of research on health care cost differentials between the US, Canada, and Europe. One glaring difference was the amount of debt a new MD had in the US versus say the UK. Between $160,000-275,00 for the US compared to almost zero for the UK. Paying for the medical education looks like a very good place to start in any health care reform, as you don’t have to pay the doctors to pay back the loans, so they don’t need to charge as high of fees. And the US doctors fees are far higher than their European counterparts.
I have recently learned that They™ re-made The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.
Substituting Ben fucking Stiller for Danny Kaye.
To whom do I send the strongly worded memo?
I feel I must say something here.
Chigau:
I dunno, but put in many strong words for me.
An overfed and hungover Pelamun has been popped on the ‘plane to Japan.
I thought Meet The Fockers was just really jumping the shark.
theophontes
Did you deliver my hug?
So I playing around on youtube, learning about this new “dubstep” thingy, when youtube recommended me a video: “Why feminism poisons everything.” I laughed. Really, youtube, you’re gonna have to step your game up if that’s the shit you think I wanna watch.
Huge hugs were exchanged. I shall package a spare hug in the same box as The Uniforms, and post to you shortly.
theophontes
I eagerly await.
What does a ‘hug in the box’ look like?
IMDb database:
….
Standardised response for bad movies:
@ Tony!
chigau will be able to inform you shortly¹.
…
¹ For a very broad, geological, definition of “shortly”.
huh?
wut?
me?
chigau:
Yes.
Apparently you….
are the chosen one.
@ chigau
I am using the hugs in place of bubble-wrap for the uniforms, then topping up with popcorn. It is by far the most eco-friendly way to ship things.
This looks like a good “hug in the box”
Tony:
Anything you want.
Some of you may know that I had a business selling my service skills and some select models of bicycles, parts, and accessories, a business which fell apart about two years ago. I made my final bankruptcy payment today, just in time for New Years. There is a half decade of earnings which have done little but pay for two glorious years of being in my own space and inviting others to share my passion for pedals, wheels, rubber, and chains. I have regrets, but none strong enough to say I ought not have tried.
I picked up a Rowenta Steamium iron at Big Lots yesterday, doing much squeaking over the cost (50 bucks), until I saw the same iron at JoAnn’s for $183.99.
I loved this movie but had forgotten it until I happened upon video.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nights_(1985_film)
Argh!
Libertarians! Fuuuuck me.
Dhorvath, that sucks. I’m afraid all I have is 80s rock (Swedish cover) with Danny MacAskill.
Helps?
Happy New Year!
Chigau, have a hug.
and many hugs for you, Caine.
Distribute among the other living things in your life.
chigau:
(from the libertarian thread)
Beer, not rum?
Tony!
The rum is gone.
(why? oh why?)
chigau:
It’s probably for the best.
Rum is a product of Satan.
RUM????
Have some Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor grog.
*plops down several fuming tankards for people sample*
Nerd
YES!
I star shines on you.
Nerd, @124:
“Been doing a bit of research on health care cost differentials between the US, Canada, and Europe. One glaring difference was the amount of debt a new MD had in the US versus say the UK. Between $160,000-275,00 for the US compared to almost zero for the UK. Paying for the medical education looks like a very good place to start in any health care reform, as you don’t have to pay the doctors to pay back the loans, so they don’t need to charge as high of fees. And the US doctors fees are far higher than their European counterparts.”
Nerd, this seemed to be just what I am interested in investigating myself, but the pdf you linked to does not (I believe) include the data re Europe and UK which you cite (“US doctors fees are far higher than their European counterparts”). Could you confirm, and link to appropriate source(s)? Thanks.
a question likely asked and answered all too often…
are you this Jimmy Carr?
Haha! ‘Tis not me, unfortunately (If I had his money, I would pay all taxes due on it).
If I’m not mistaken, the original meaning of ‘grog’ was watered-down rum.
To give British sailors something to do between sodomy and the lash.
JC, Forbes article citing the differences.
Citation for US doctor training costs to the new MD, USA versus France.
Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, it’s at least an ethos.
Don’t mind me, just droppin’ in to see what condition my condition is in.
Onoctony
1. In the spirit of recklessness of the holidays, I posted many things in my Tumblr blog, including: a. my appreciation of furry gay art; b. a photo of myself; c. sufficient information to approximately locate the region of South America where my small conservative town lies.
2. I also posted the usual depreciative comment directed towards American conservative political cartoonists.
3. Today, an American anti-feminist redditor discovered my blog.
4. I don’t know how much information about me he managed to gather before I deleted the blog, or if he managed to make the connection between a. and c. to figure the potentially devastating effect that outing myself to the people around me could have in my life.
5. He was gracious enough to let me know he was aware of the existence of my blog, and to post an entry on his own blog about eating donkey meat.
6. I don’t know if the reference to dead donkeys is just a freak coincidence or if he was actually referring to me.
7. I don’t know what will happen in the next days. I can only say I didn’t look both ways to cross the streets today. I just can’t care anymore.
8. I couldn’t find anyone I could talk about this to, and this was the first place I figured I could simply dump it.
dõki,
*hugs*
That’s such a horrible situation, I hope the guy didn’t figure out enough information to hurt you (or that he will find some shred of decency in himself if he did, and keep it to himself).
Regarding #7: Please, take care of yourself.
more *hugs* (sorry, that’s all I have, as inefficient as it is)
Doki, I’m so sorry you were targeted by an asshole! Very sorry you ended up deleting your blog, too. Have a drink or three on us, and many, many hugs. Feel free to vent here all you like, we have lots of shoulder to cry on, and you start looking both ways again, please.
dõki
*hugs* or other desired gestures of support. Hopefully nothing comes of it.
Chas
Indeed. The practice of watering the rum ration appears to have originated with an Admiral Vernon in the 1740s. Vernon was known as “Old Grog”, due to his predilection for wearing a grogram (cloth made of wool and silk, stiffened with gum) coat, which nickname passed on to the watered rum he gave the sailors.
*restocks the hug truck*
Why do JohnCornynUnitedStatesSenator ads follow me everywhere I go?
and those 250mInfectedAmericans?
and those bellyfatbanana folks?
not to mention greenteawillkillyou
what did I do to deserve this?
—
I do not actually require an answer.
chigau
What’s an ad? Haven’t seen one of them in years.Why are you using a device without an adblocker?
@dõki
CheeseWhiz.
I’m so sorry, doki. Stay safe, and please feel free to dump anything you can’t carry alone right here in TD.
@chas, #158:
There was something between sodomy and the lash? Or do you mean that there was something between [sodomy and the lash] and the next [sodomy and the lash]?
The quote is “rum, sodomy, and the lash.”
The context is actually (IMO) hilarious. Winston Churchill wanted to reform the Royal Navy at some point. Someone protested that he was destroying the grand traditions of the Navy. His retort (supposedly, there’s no evidence he actually said this) was that the above were the only “traditions” of the Navy.
Oh, I was familiar with the quote. I had to think about whether I wanted to play on rum not coming between sodomy and the lash in the quote or whether to play on SM themes.
Guess which won between erudition and sex?
Yeah, not even close.
doki
*preferred gesture of support*
These assholes are disgusting
+++
Grog is still a beverage in (Northern) Germany witn many different recipes. The one I know (passed down as “cold remedy”) is hot water, honey, lemon juice and brown rum. Actually quite nice.
OK.
So I heard about all the cold weather certain Pharyngulites have been enduring. In a show of
solidaritybravado, I headed off to the mountains near Xi’an to experience the icy wastes of Central China.This was the the view from the aircraft: Mountains!
dõki, fuck, I’m sorry – and I really hope the creeps don’t give you trouble.
Further to my #112, in subsequent novels, Roderick Spode, despite being described as physically imposing (being compared to a gorilla, and not just an ordinary one but “the large economy size”) is knocked unconscious three times (by Wooster’s Aunt Dahlia with a small rubber cosh, by the Rev. Harold “Stinker” Pinker in a fist-fight, and by a cook with a china basin containing beans); and is “plugged in the eye with a potato” by an unknown hand. It’s safe to say Wodehouse didn’t like him any more than Wooster did!
doki:
So sorry to hear that. I hope the guy wasn’t able to piece things together. Stay safe my friend.
Giliell:
I know that as a Hot Toddy. Most ‘mericans put whiskey or brandy in, though. One of my great grandmothers insisted on rum, though. Used to get those when I had a cold.
In the Anglophonozone, this is a ‘toddy’.
(and, yes, quite nice.)
I must share:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/01/03/bill-nye-is-going-to-debate-ken-ham/comment-page-1/#comment-732642
Giliell
I apparently responded with the same thing Chas and Caine did in the Lounge rather than here. Do you happen to know if the German grog comes from English, or does it have a separate etymology?
Things you would never expect to hear from Glenn Beck:
Said regarding a remark by a Russian TV personality to the effect that gay people ought to all be killed. Of course, he follows up with a Dear Muslima, ( “And we’re talking about Duck Dynasty. Really? Really?”) but it’s still a surprising thing to hear.
Another similar word is the Swedish glögg, which, however, is wine-based. (My grandfather used to make a big deal out of making it on Xmas Eve and giving everyone some regardless of age. Consenting adults also fortified theirs with, iirc, brandy.)
I take it you haven’t actually read Cosmos and have based your critique on the tv series? I only ask because in my copy of the book those three chaps are very much in evidence.
Chas
Wikipedia indicates that some recipes use a base of whiskey or brandy, which makes me suppose that the North German grog comes from that, rather than the English one.
Looks like I’ll have to put the creative cap on, and come up with an explanation of the Pharyngula Saloon and Spanking Parlor grog. Maybe I need to invent an alternative spelling, like grogg, groj, gerog….
My wife, a teetotaler, bought a bottle of non-alcoholic glögg, which. to me, tasted like apple cider seasoned with cloves. I’m generally not big on sweet wines, so I’m not sure how I’ll react to alcoholic glögg or similar, mulled products.
Sadly, all my books are packed away, included by compacted Oxford English Dictionary. One online dictionary says this about “grog”: “from Old Grog, nickname of Edward Vernon (1684–1757), British admiral, who in 1740 issued naval rum diluted with water; his nickname arose from his grogram cloak).”
This sounds almost too cute to be true.
A propos of nothing:
It has been very gratifying to me these last couple of years to see some of what I’ve written wind up in print.
So far, six of my poems have been published, on these sites:
http://www.ascentaspirations.ca/drunkenness.htm
http://journalformalpoetry.com/_archive/_pdfFiles/Spring%2013.pdf
http://www.3ammagazine.com/3am/assinaros-other-poems/
http://www.ascentaspirations.ca/somewhatafterezrapound.htm
I’m citing to them here for whatever comment anyone cares to make. Why this venue? Frank comment seems to be . . . not infrequent here.
@186: gerog. That could be “grog” in the Black Speech of Mordor. A lot of the Ork episodes seem alcohol-driven, so I’m thinking this may be the culprit.
or possibly
Grog
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-gro4.htm
Hi all, and Happy New Year. What’s new? Thunderdome appears to be a lot more tame since I last visited.
Oh, as far as you’re concerned, nothing. All you bring to the table is the same old shit, and I might add that it won’t be any better just because the calendar’s clicked over.
And I thought you were banned.
I should’ve made some kind of New Year’s resolution.
Are we really going to have to go back and dig up whatever questions you dodged last time?
The Online Etymology Dictionary supports the Admiral Vernon origin of grog:
Were you born in a barn, joey?
The kraken merely slumber in the absence of trolls. I’m sure several of them will awaken if necessary.
@theophontes:
I’m actually surprised to see so much brown and green. I’d have thought more snow would be blanketing the trees.
Hmm. I suppose cold/clear is more common without a good nearby source of atmospheric moisture?
If you want.
No. Were you?
joey:
Are you still a presuppositionalist anti-woman irrationalist who will not consider evidence that doesn’t conform to your anti-woman irrational presuppositions?
Caine & Beatrice:
Hugs to you.
I appreciate the heavy lifting you both are doing over on the Corrective Rape thread. I am too weak right now inside to do anything more than say thanks. reading that thread was hard enough, reading the article was worse. I feel like I should add to the thread but can’t see past my fear and rage. Sorry.
Just a lazy Sunday afternoon taking care of the kids. Thought I’d drop in for a bit to see what’s going on.
Oops, Saturday…
Ogvorbis:
Oh no no no no, Ogvorbis. You’re fine. It’s difficult beyond measure, all that. I’m shaking myself right now, and the rats are suffering a massive clean up of the studio for it. Poor rats. Many, many hugs to you.
Joey, quit sounding like a evangelical/missionary. Drop the trying to be a friend bit. You are nothing but the enemy, and will remain there until you acknowledge your deity is imaginry, and your babble is mythology/fiction. So, nothing has or will change until you do….
I don’t think I’m any of these things, but of course others here will think otherwise.
I’m actually not interested picking a fight right now. Just wanted to chat some. I know this isn’t the Lounge, but as far as I know I’m still quarantined here.
Nerd, do you not have friends who are theists?
I don’t know about Nerd, but I have family members who are theists. But you’re not my mother. I know that, because for one thing, she’s not that fucking dishonest or evasive.
Ogvorbis
I can’t bring myself to read the article or comment in the thread because I’m a
cowardbit emotionally fragile. I really didn’t need to know about jackrolling.It is entirely ok to put your own mental and emotional health as a priority in a discussion.
Let me throw out a benign question.
Has anyone attempted to learn a foreign language on their own? If so, any advice on resources that you’ve had success with?
I’m attempting to teach myself Spanish. I started as an absolute beginner 2.5 months ago. I’m using Pimsleur right now and I’m almost done with Unit III, about to start Unit IV. So far I think it’s pretty good, but it has its drawbacks. Not sure what to do next after I finish the last unit. One thing I do know for sure is that I’ll still be far from fluent.
Any advice or suggestions out there? Has anyone tried lingq.com?
Anybody is is rational, not delusional.
We practice Dinner Table Diplomacy. Which means you leave your imaginary deity and fallacious theology at the door. Then we do. You first.
Tethys:
I didn’t either. I recognized the behaviour though, just not the name. I remember, very well, being the tomboy in a group of boys one summer day, and seeing everything change – all the boys got this…speculative look. We weren’t a group of kids anymore, it was a group of predators sizing up the prey. The hell of it is, you can’t just give in to flight or fight, you have to stand your ground long enough to assess the situation and choose the best option. It is a hellish thing to have happen, and I can’t describe how it feels.
*hugs* for you. This shit never gets easier.
Tethys @ 209
Absolutely. There’s no weakness in self-care.
Alright, as for this moment, I’m leaving all my religious beliefs at the door.
So, what’s up? Tell me something about yourself. As for me, like I said I’m home with the kids right now. The wife will be coming home anytime now, so my free time on this computer is very limited. I’d rather have her come home to the sight of me starting dinner than on this computer, lol.
Caine @ 212
Maybe you can’t describe how it feels, but I know well what you’re describing here. Very much like being a deer worried to the ground by wolves. And the hell of it is, they’d been fellow deer just a little while before.
*hugs and other forms of acceptable support for all who are struggling today*
Evangelical/missionary bullshit. Who the fuck cares about you? Quit with the missionary work. We know the MO.
MM:
Yeah, this. The change is shocking.
Wife’s home. Gotta go. Maybe in another couple of months. Cheers.
Maybe in a couple of months, I’ll suffer amnesia, or maybe my head will explode.
What the hell was that? joey, I mean. Weird shit. [sniffs cigar] Nope, that aintent it.
When you get back, say simply “this is what I believe, and this (link) is the evidence to back it up”. Fuck this playing friends shit, which is a missionary tactic.
Caine
I recognized it too. Brought me right back to myself and younger sister being chased down by several members of the football team when I was 14. The chase was definitely predatory, they didn’t even know who they were chasing, just that we were female. I think the only thing that saved us when they caught us was the fact that the gymnasts (me) and football team shared time in the weight room, and they knew that I could legpress 500 pounds despite only weighing 90 pounds, and that I would kick the shit out of anyone who tried to touch me.
About the corrective rape story, there are people fighting back: http://www.iamwomanseries.com/our-stories/episodes-1-6/episode-2-funeka-soldaat/ and http://freegender.wordpress.com/
What a weird coincidence. Just the other day I was wondering to myself, “I wonder what happened to ol’ joey?”
nah. I kid.
If you want to go that route, you really have to start with it. You can’t begin being an apologist and then, once you’ve been kicked to the curb, start pretending that you’re just an unbiased observer.
We’re neither stupid nor deficient in memory. We know what you are. If you wanted an honest, open discussion, you should have come at this from an entirely different angle. You need to back off and let someone else do the nice and friendly shtick. It’s simply not believable, coming from you. Don’t pretend the past doesn’t exist. It only makes you seem dishonest.
Amen….
I sit in awe.
I bet that’s related to “glowing”; compare German Glühwein “mulled wine”, literally “glowwine”. Germanic languages aren’t supposed to confuse or interchange l and r; g/w confusions (and b/w ones), however, are commonplace (except at the beginnings of words), and irregular g/h alternations come from this.
Ran across this while searching the previous Pharyngula the Opera Acts:
Starting work on the Grogg act. While drinking grogg. Did I mention the Redhead often leaves the Hallmark Movie Channel as her nightly TV noise for the night? Inoffensive and boring, especially at Xmas (12 new movies this year, including all previous years from Someber).
*wipes a tear*
Nerd:
But what about the duet for the second tenor and the bedgoat?
G’night, all.
@Crip Dyke
I was expecting extreme cold, to the extent that I went out and bought a fleece lined jacket. As it turned out though, the lowest temperature we experienced was -3°C … and then only very shortly at night. Although there was some frost, and a little ice in the deeper valleys, we were into positive double digits most of the time.
The “snow” that I saw from the air turned out, as much as I can judge, to be swathes of silvery cattails, glistening languidly in the sun.
And yes, it was very dry, but a lot of the vegetation looked very happy – all green, in the case of the camphor, fir and pomelo trees and much of the bamboo. Our clients were apologising for the chilly weather. To me though, it seemed idyllic.
When I shovel snow off my tiny 4′ x 6′ back- door landing, I am throwing it up on to the existing snow-pile.
-45 F today, with a warning:
Yay.
Sounds like Dah YooPee.
The cold weather Caine mentioned is coming through the Chiwaukee area. It will only stay about 3 days, but nights are predicted at -15 to-20 F. The Redhead has a doctor’s appt. scheduled for Tuesday, with a predicted high of 2 F. I’m trying to get her to reschedule, as she has nothing she can wear that is warm enough while non-bulky so she can make the transfers.
OK, I will: I have no wish whatever to exchange pleasantries with a dishonest creep like you.
Now do us all a favour, and fuck off. Permanently.
I’d rather a fucking pardon.
But that’s too much to hope for, isn’t it.
Crip Dyke:
If she had been male, white, and cis, and Schmitz had been black, it would have been an open-and-shut case of self defense. But we all know that women and people of colour and GLBTQ people can never defend themselves.
A pardon would be nice, but I’d rather see a reversal of the decision to find her guilty.
@Oggie:
She pled guilty: I understand the reasons for it, but it does put her in the legal position of being pretty much completely unable to appeal for reversal.
A pardon has the same effect, btw: she wouldn’t have to disclose on job applications that she had been convicted of a crime, etc. Clemency is also within a governor’s power and would look like early release, but without conditional parole. I’m not wanting clemency. I’m wanting the pardon: from everything I’ve read, it’s clearly the just result.
Crip Dyke:
Ah. Okay. I apologize for my ignorance.
@Og:
No need for apologies. We’re all ignorant of a lot of things. Currently I’m noticing my ignorance on what time is my first class tomorrow morning.
This is a question to all – or to PZ if you are reading. This is my first visit to thunderdome – I am a background reader of pharyngula – and great admirer of PZ’s writing.
I spend a lot of time reading articles on Physorg.com – and recently had an exchange with one James Kohl. I have a feeling some people here will have experience with Kohl. Long story short – I am way out of my league with the level of info that he is discussing – but I am secure in evaluating it as bull (any time you call the whole field of evolutionary biologists ‘ignorant fools’ – you give yourself away.
Here is a sample of JVK’s posting.
Ecological adaptation occurs via the epigenetic effects of nutrients on alternative splicings of pre-mRNA which result in amino acid substitutions that differentiate all cell types of all individuals of all species. The control of the differences in cell types occurs via the metabolism of the nutrients to chemical signals that control the physiology of reproduction.
PZ – or anyone who has the depth of knowledge to rebut this stuff – would you be interested in doing a post that I could link to – to say ‘I don’t understand this stuff – but here is someone who does’?
Here is a link to the whole thread – http://phys.org/news/2014-01-americans-dont-evolution.html
Many thanks – and apologies if I am intruding – I will happily go back to being a silent reader. I understand that this runs the risk of getting sucked into the abyss, and folks may have no interest in going there.
Djr1, sounds like technobabble to me. But what do I know? I’m just a 35+ year professional scientist, but not a biologist.
“Nutrients” don’t control alternative splicing.
Alternative splicing doesn’t cause amino-acid substitutions.
It’s buzzword salad.
I have emailed President Mike Bambino of Youthalternatives (on the “MY EYES!!!” thread). I await an interesting response.
Rev. Theo Phontes
The Swedish bank boss who likes to do things differently. (Link to BBC)
More good ideas from Sweden.
everyone who says “that’s a poe” write “that’s a joke” instead.
that’s all I’m asking.
it’s not much
Amazing graphic: Walled City of Kowloon.
Hi there. Very quick issue to raise. In a separate debate I’m having about ID/Creationism, I asked what precisely ID/Creationism can actually explain. When they answered with the Horizon Problem, I countered by simply saying “Inflation: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0206mapresults.html . Next?” .
They however countered by claiming that it’s not been proven (which I’m obviously going to counter with the factoid that nothing is ever proven in science and is simply demonstrated with evidence so that it becomes accurate beyond reasonable doubt), and they used this quote from the article:
“WMAP detected E-mode polarization but not B-mode yet. B-mode detection could provide smoking-gun evidence for inflation. But with the temperature map plus the E-mode polarization map, the WMAP team can say several things about inflation.”
And they finished off by saying “There always seems to be that one little thorn that gives the impression of the carrot before the cart. If only there was that B-mode detection.”
Since I am not as well versed on inflation as others here will be, can someone provide some scientific help to this?
CD #236
Indeed.
Theophontes:
So am I.
Cordially,
Reverend Caine
Beatrice:
I would like every know-it-all ass on the ‘net to never once again claim “Poe!” or “Joke!” or “Shopped!”.* That’s not asking much either, however, the howls of outrage would be deafening.
*Unless that claim is the truth, and they quietly provide the requisite citation[s].
Oh my goodness, the crank has shown up: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/01/06/one-crank-dies-another-rises-to-take-his-place/comment-page-1/#comment-733874
Theophontes, Caine
Likewise. I’ve got one from the Apathetic Agnostics too (Slogan: We don’t know, and we don’t care.) I’ve also got a Papacy from the Discordians, but everyone has that.
The Right Reverend Pope Dalillama, S.G.
A commenter claims that using profanity has an effect similar to using bigoted slurs.
Epic facepalm.
Tony, I have suspicions that ‘drinsomnia’ is a sock.
Speaking of fucking cussing though, there are many a corner of the ‘net which would spare drinsomnia’s ever so tender eyeballs. This ain’t one of them.
jonmilne @248: Don’t these people know how to use google?
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/jul/25/b-mode-polarization-spotted-in-cosmic-microwave-background
Caine
My socky-sense isn’t tingling about drinsomnia.
I am willing to defer to your greater experience but who do you think they are?
Rob Grigjanis
I hear you once lived in Edmonton.
Have we met?
Chigau:
Socky-sense. Hee hee.
Tony!
;)
Chigau:
I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the reference to ‘how pharyngula used to be’ and the cussing stuff, reminds me of ftk.
Caine
ftk?
—
aaaand I just realized that
drinsomnia
is probably
doctor insomnia
rather than
a sleepy river in Albania
(I don’t like to question people’s nym-choices)
Chigau, ftk – For The Kids, waaaaaaaaaay back on Pharyngula Sciborg.
Caine
ah
I do have vague memories of For The Kids.
At any rate, doctah insomnia is back, with yet another off topic screed, I’m sure. Imma take my meds and wander towards bed, it’s a bad enough day already.
See you tomorrow, Caine.
Sleep well.
chigau @259: I lived there from fall 1980 to spring 1987, while I was at the U of A. If, during that period, you were in/around the physics department, or played soccer on/around the campus, or spent much time in the Power Plant, we could have met.
drinsomnia:
Do you have any examples of ‘fuck’ or ‘shit’ being used to dehumanize people?
A monitor has recommended drisomnia come here for further tone trolling. I provided a link.
*sharpens titanium fang*
Rob Grigjanis
I moved to Edmonton in 1985 and while I was not around the Physics department or soccer, I was definitely around the Power Plant.
Our paths may have crossed.
Nerd:
Just one fang?
Did you break the others?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/06/canadas-former-defense-chief-says-space-aliens-live-among-us-but-hate-our-nukes/
And here I thought humans were responsible for technological advancements.
Silly me, it was aliens.
Tony! (from the last thread):
Seconded. Probably trillionthed by now.
Get off your fucking cross. We need the fucking space to nail the next fool martyr up. The only thing which was said to be bigoted was your statement about homophobes being closeted. Care to source where anyone directly labeled you a bigot or a homophobe? Because I never saw that happening.
You, however, have been highly evasive at acknowledging that, yes, your initial comment is at the very least a contentious one, and that, yes, you probably should have read the comments before deciding to share such biting commentary with the rest of us, who also have functioning minds, and have also been exposed to that type of comment before about the phrase “shoving it down throats.” That’s not clever here. Shit, it’s not clever ANYWHERE and it never was, really. I wasn’t going to call you on that directly, though I implied it by calling you an “original wit”. But fucking hell if you’re going to be told that your participation wasn’t welcome in any manner! No sir! Immediately wax indignant about the impropriety of leveling upon you the Almighty F-bomb! destroyer of humanity! oppressor to the oppressed!
Then you continued the derail into some mind numbing exercise in showing how firm you are in your conviction that it’s not homophobic or bigoted at all and you can keep using it because the opinions of even rainbow people – directly harmed by the use of such slurs and accusations – on the subject cannot trump your blessed reasoning abilities. Boy that was a mouthful. Please don’t accuse me of sucking dick now. Get it? Because a mouthful of… Oh fuck it.
(last blockquote was OF COURSE not Tony! but drinsomnia.)
#271 chigau
My band played The Power Plant a number of times in the late 80’s or early 90’s. In the unlikely event that you saw us I apologise for any hearing damage that might have occurred.
Only one implant. My real fangs don’t need sharpening.
Acolyte of Sagan @184: Sorry, been away, and just saw this. By ‘fucker’, I meant Tyson, who didn’t mention those guys in the interview. If Sagan did anything to match their contributions, let me know.
Oh, yes. Bell Labs and DuPont are obvious extraterrestrial outfits. Post-It notes? Alien technology for certain.
Dang, aliens own 3M?
drinsomnia
This was probably the most precious part of your post. Being on topic was just an afterthought to you and this was your cop-out bargain to remain in PZ’s good graces. Ha!
Fuck it, I’ll just deconstruct his whole last post in that thread. I’m bored and feeling generous enough to set you right, drinsomnia.
I think what you meant to say here is that words like fuck, shit, damn, ass, asshole, etc. accompany dehumanization and oppression. There is no doubt in my mind that that is so. But there are also contexts where they are not used to do such things. They also do not have the insinuations associated with gendered or rainbow-phobic slurs, nor the effect of instilling fear or hatred of a group. The plain profane words are thus not tools of oppression or dehumanization directly. They are incidental to the oppression and dehumanization. Get it?
The level of hypocrisy and intolerance is so high here that there’s no reason to have any discussions of any sort.
This charge doesn’t hold since there was never an issue of hypocrisy an anyone’s part in that discussion, as demonstrated above.
I don’t know who accused you of being a bigot, but I can understand why. Just because you say you’re an ally doesn’t mean you can get away with not walking the walk. Also, it would be nice to know the context of what you’re calling an accusation.
We only come to know you through what you present to us. If someone got the impression that you’re a bigot in sheep’s clothing maybe you should take that as a sign that you’re doing something the fuck wrong and correct that.
It all started the day you posted your witty observation that homophobes said something with a vaguely sexual context. It will end when you go away.
Borked a quote.
was his, not mine. Shit, I know better than that.
Damnit, might have misgendered you drinsomnia, for that I’m truly sorry.
Er, one more correction and maybe an observation about myself, something which I’m contending with right now that I did. Telling someone to go away. This is PZ’s blog and I shouldn’t attempt to chase someone off. I know things like ‘fuck off’ are fun for me to say, but I cannot justify subverting PZ’s authority on the matter by making their participation here forever verboten. That’s not my place.
I don’t want drinsomnia to really go away, either. I want them to learn. To understand my perspective and why it’s important to those who are rainbow or have loved ones that are. Maybe what I’m really trying to say is that I don’t want you to go away drinsomnia. I just want you to go away long enough for you to have really thought about what you wanted to say. Then rejoin when tempers aren’t flaring. In the course of doing that, maybe you will have some chance at self-reflection and come to a different conclusion about your initial conduct here.
So from now on, if I say “fuck off”, I do not mean “fuck off and stay fucked off”, I mean “fuck off but come back when you’re thoroughly unfucked.” If I even say it anymore.
FossilFishy #276
I expect that youse were Awesome.
No apology needed.
Right Rob?
chigau, the only damage I suffered at the Power Plant, apart from the usual liver nonsense, was from trying to dance to Rock Lobster.
Actually, I don’t remember live acts there. Maybe that was after my time, but the Power Plant wouldn’t suffer anything less than excellence.
Rob Grigjanis and FossilFishy
The Power Plant did not do guacamole.
They did green slime.
I disputed this with my server one night…
…
….
Beer was cheap.
and it wasn’t RATT.
AO – Acronym Overload. Reduce Auto Theft in Texas?
Rob Grigjanis
Room
At
The
Top
7th floor of the SUB
smelly bar
full of jocks
great view
Thanks chigau, we were awesome… for certain values of awe anyway. ;)
RATT= Room At The Top, the bar on the top floor of the student union building. We played there a couple of times as well. It might have been a horrible bar but at least it had decent sound. It was also the site of one of my only full-on ROCK ‘N ROLL \m/ moments. The last song of our set I broke a string so I kept smashing at it, rubbing the strings against the amp while if fed back and so on until they all broke. /lamest rock excess story ever
The Power Plant was a terrible place for music, all that exposed brick looks lovely but it plays hell with trying to get a good live sound. You know, I might be getting the time period wrong, it’s all a bit of a blur. It might have been late 90’s we played at TPP, maybe? The notion that The Power Plant wouldn’t accept anything less than excellence doesn’t fit with my experience of the place so we could be talking about a decent temporal separation here.
Let us be honest.
On Campus Bars are for drinking.
Excellence?
—
The Power Plant is a big box.
It doesn’t have ‘acoustics’.
It did have that large pornographic sculpture ….
chigau @289:
There were floors? Views? I just walked in and ordered G&Ts.
FossilFishy @290:
No kidding mate.
jonmilne,
I might counter with this:
B-mode polarization spotted. But I know your conversant will just push the goalposts back. Still, hardly conclusive, just another stone in the large pile that the standard model of cosmology has supporting it.
And I would note, that I suspect they didn’t know the signifigance, just that something wasn’t found by WMAP. We have learned things from earlier detectors which allow newer ones to work better.
Dhorvath, OM @293: See @257.
Fossil & Rob
blur
yup
Rob G,
My apologies, I read from the bottom and ought to be more careful of references I don’t follow.
I spent most of my on-campus time* in Dewey’s. A decision I wish to apologise for to all those poor folks who were trying to live above it.
*All of it if I’m honest, I was never a student there.
Dhorvath, OM @297: No worries.
chigau @291: You mean the vaguely polynesian-looking wooden statue with a huge penis facing the corner?
FossilFishy
I liked Dewey’s.
All those HUB denizens knew what they were getting into.
probably
even if English was not their first language
Rob Grigjanis #300
That’s the one!
Campus legend was that it was a gift from the government of a vaguely polynesian government (none of my informants were well-informed) but because of the extremely large penis, the statue was deemed unsuitable for display anywhere.
So it ended up in the bar.
I like Dewey’s too, and besides, just because your culture has no tradition of binge drinking, or even any legal venues for the consumption of alcohol that’s no excuse for not doing your homework. /victim blaming.
Huh, I hadn’t heard that legend. After the initial “Huh?” I never really gave the thing a second glance. Mind you, the only time I ever went there was to play so I was busy, busy and had no time for phallic contemplation.
@ Nerd
3M stands for: Mu Arae, Monoceros & Mensa.
Our old friend slc1, now colnago80, is capering around one of Ed Brayton’s threads doing his usual Islamophobic, jingoistic, pro-Israeli cheerleading routine, and he apparently thinks it’s fine to referr to British people as Limeys and French people as Frogs. I told him they were racist terms and asked him to stop, and his response was to give me an etymology lesson.
Now, I wasn’t unreasonable in requesting that he stop using those terms, was I?
Thumper
Are you sure that colnago80 is the same as slc1? I’m pretty sure I’ve seen them in the same threads before, and slc1 is still posting about FtB. Re: Limeys and Frogs, I don’t know that they’re racist per se in the sociological sense, inasmuch as there’s not been institutionalized discrimination against those ethnicities. That said, Frog is unquestionably derogatory and offensive, and should not be used. Limey is slightly more of an edge case, in that it’s not intrinsically derogatory, although it can certainly be used that way,but it is not unreasonable to ask people to refrain from using it anyway, as it is definitely questionable.
Thumper:
No. If that is slc1 though, asking won’t help, it will just encourage them to sling more arrows of outrage about.
@Dallillama
Yes; racist was a bit strong. Derogatory and offensive to a particular ethnic group. And yes I’m certain it’s slc, several people on the thread have referred to him as slc and he hasn’t objected, and IIRC he outright admitted it on a previous thread and claimed it wasn’t sockpuppeting because he’d told people previously. Also, his writing style and chosen subject of outrage is identical.
@Caine
Yeah, he’s just obstinately refusing to address my concerns now, whether they be about those derogatory terms or the actual subject we were discussing, and the goalposts appear to be on wheels. I am rapidly beginning to tire of his antics.
Thanks to both of you for confirming I’m not over reacting. I’m aware they are relatively minor on the scale of derogatory ethnic slurs, but they still wind me up.
Jesus fuck, just try to get people to stop with the No True Human fallacy. People will go to any length to keep on othering.
Me too! Me too! Instead of an ordained minister, I’m an ordained magister. :-)
(And a year and a half later, I got an actual magister = master title from the University of Vienna.)
…Funny. I just thought of it today, and of how I had never told anyone.
Warm hugs to all the Ordained Ministers ™ (and Magisters).
For everybody else: Get thy selves ordained immédiatement!
Link to Bishop Kirby’s website.
I came for the weddings but stayed for the exorcisms.
Interesting day at Pharyngula.
Peter Dickinson did a very interesting naturalistic treatment of fire-breathing dragons in The Flight of Dragons. IIRC it involved generation of hydrogen by allowing hydrochloric acid from the stomach to run across bone lattices, thus allowing lighter-than air flight (the ‘wings’ are merely extended ribs, akin to those of the Flying lizard, used for stability and steering. They breathed fire mostly as a mating display, by igniting (I forget how) the H2 as it left their bodies. The animated film of the same name has basically no relation.
In several of the Discworld books, pTerry went into interesting detail as to the workings of Swamp Dragons, who are basically a cobbled together mess, likely to blow themselves up at any time.
@Dalillama
That sounds interesting, I may have to give that a read. I always love naturalistic explanations for mythical creatures :) They’re often fascinating, and fun to come up with. I’ve spent a lot of time wondering what a dragon would look like if they really existed. The image I have in my head has four limbs (not six as is sometimes displayed), with wings like a pterosaur rather than a bat, on the assumption they would have evolved from pterosaurs. It would be clumsy on the ground. A long tail for stable long-distance flight, balanced by a long neck, and a head that looks something like this. And the fire-breathing mechanism I mentioned in the other thread; two glands with chemicals which combust when mixed, and the dragon would simply spray the contents of each gland, the sprays would collide and mix in the air, and fire! So they wouldn’t be breathing fire so much as spewing it, kind of like a petrol-fuelled flame thrower. I also posit that the glands would be located just under the bottom corner of the jaw, so the fringe of spikes in the image would be there to protect said gland.
I have an active imagination.
@Caine
I like the Discworld novels but haven’t read even close to all of them. I’m not familiar with the Swamp Dragons.
Thumper, there are three books in which swamp dragons figure heavily: Guards, Guards!, Men at Arms (the first two Night Watch books), and The Last Hero, which features many Disc notables, such as Leonard da Quirm, Havelock Vetinari, Rincewind, Genghis Cohen, and the barbarian horde, of course. (The Last Hero has beautiful illustrations of the various types of swamp dragons, and it’s there that moon dragons are discovered, too.) http://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/index.php/Swamp_dragon There’s more on swamp dragons here:
Er, sorry bout that fuck up. I obviously need more tea. Much more.
David
Given your profession it’s quite fitting that this means you’re a creature whose species is heading towards extinction as they all switch to Bachelor/Master systems :)
PZ’s recent post makes my #311 suddenly look creepy.
theophontes
Which post?
oh
that one
@ chigau
Yeah. Eeeuw!
chigau (crank thread):
I think you’re on to something, but that seems like a better album title.
The band would have to be something like ‘James V. Kohl And The Nutrient-Dependent Pheromone-Controlled Amino Acid Substitutions’.
Or ‘Kohl And The Cabbage-Heads’.
Ha!
I swear by PZ’s tentacles I posted the above before I saw Kohl’s #232 over there.
Cruciferae? Crushed juniper berries. Mmmm.
—
Don’t mind me. I’ve been reading and it messes with your head.
Is Clem Hansson really to be trusted, even with the fly badge in her grandmother-knitted-hat?
(Sorry. For the uninitiated. *SPOILERS*)
Chas
gotta be ‘Kohl And The Cabbage-Heads’
‘James V. Kohl And The Nutrient-Dependent Pheromone-Controlled Amino Acid Substitutions’
JV.KATN-DP-CAAS
JVK And The Nut-Deps
JVK And The AmAssSubs
.
.
just doesn’t work
Chas
teehee
Cultural Learnings of Scandanavia for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of ‘Merkins:
Link here.
(1,000,000.00 NOK = 161,408.36 USD)
(US debt per capita = 54,563.81 USD)
On the absolute need to make sense of shit: Link to Graphic.
…
Flying Cars!!! (I trust this answers some prayers around here.)
Yes, the very same genocidal scumbag (he has advocated dropping 6 15Mt thermonuclear bombs on Iran) and numpty (he insists on referring to Hitler as “Frankenberger”, because of a tall story told by a senior Nazi), but the use of the two nyms is not sockpuppeting: he had some problem logging in at Ed Brayton’s. He was banned here as slc1, but I think that was before the general amnesty. He’s much more openly bigoted elsewhere than I’ve seen here under the new nym, so is presumably trying to avoid rebanning.
@Caine #316
I need to read more Pratchett; I’ll make the Nightwatch series my priority. Love Sam Vimes, so they were high on the list anyway :)
@Chas and Chigau
I don’t even understand what the fuck Kohl is talking about over there. Does what he says actually mean anything, or is it just one big Argument by Gibberish? How exactly does he suppose evolution occurrs if not by mutation? I need a “Kohl’s Hypothesis for Dummies” book :(
@Nick Gotts
He’s still using the same tactics, too. He’s accused me twice of holding the opinion that Israel shouldn’t be allowed to “defend itself against terrorists”, and won’t provide a quote as proof (because there isn’t one, because that’s not my opinion). I also asked him how the implication of a quasi-apartheid state helps defend against terrorism, and he won’t explain; again, presumably, because he can’t. He’s tried to compare black- or latino-majority ghettos in the US to the West Bank and Gaza, thus enabling him to claim that, by our logic, the US is an apartheid state. He thinks entirely in groups rather than individuals; so if one Palastinian committs an attack on Israel, then all Palastinians are responsible and deserve to suffer for it. I’ve never come across a person more averse to logic and proof. It’s ridiculous.
@Nick Gotts
Turns out he’s just as openly bigoted here. He sent me a video of the launching of the Bismarck and the sinking of the Hood, and when i an 8D=X (may have got the symbol wrong there, in which case I apologise) wondered why, he responded with this:
Theophontes:
The rubber hand illusion is actual therapy which is done with mirrors and boxes for people who have lost a limb. V.S. Ramachandran details it in his book, The Tell-Tale Brain. It has a really high success rate for helping amputees with pain and other problems that amputation causes.
44 Never before seen reasons why Evolution is just a Fairy Tale for Adults.
Rev:
Wow. Epic quotemining. Imagine if that energy had gone to something useful? Like figuring out where the dirty water in PZed’s house came from?
Nick Gotts
That explains why there seemed to be two assholes with that line hanging around.
Rev:
damn, checkmate.
(The author has clearly never read The Origin of Feces)
Oggie
I wanted to blame Rebecca Watson for PZ’s pipes but that trope seems to have run its course.
chigau:
Well, just wait until Resurrection Sunday to resurrect that particular mememe.
And mic spike
Chigau:
I think you’re still good with blaming the proliferation of feminist hair.
Caine
I know that feminist hair was responsible for our last clogged-pipe episode.
Chigau, yes, our bathroom sink is clogged today. It must be the feminist hair, can’t be anything else. Nope.
My, my. Just made Brussels Sprouts for the crew, very popular, those tiny cabbages. It’s a cabbage sort of week, it seems.
So, I’m on the autism spectrum. Haven’t been diagnosed*, but it’s pretty obvious.
I wonder if there’s an opposite condition that Namesake Wilford has. It’s like he only notices tone and completely overlooks substance.
~:-|
* The last psychologist I saw refused to diagnose me – she never said I didn’t have “Asperger’s syndrome” as it was then called, she said she was afraid I’d hide behind the diagnosis.
Contradiction in terms.
HCl + bone → phosphoric acid + calcium chloride (both soluble in water).
If the dragons swallow metals (other than gold!), they can simply burp hydrogen without doing any damage to their bones.
:-)
Oh, snap!
Awesomeness.
It’s Norwegian! They have flying cars in Norway !!
It is one huge argument by gibberish, but I strongly doubt that he understands that.
I don’t think any of the technical terms he uses mean what he thinks they mean.
Nopenopenopenopenope. Too tired to engage my SIWOTI syndrome again. Not today.
+ 1
Leaving this here for dhorvath, because I can’t imagine anyone* else would be remotely interested.
It is in fact possible to manufacture a 5.5mm socket nipple driver for dtswiss/SRAM spoke nipples using a 5mm Allen head bolt, a pair of nylock nuts, a 10mm spanner, a Dremel, a bench grinder and a powerful need** to do it. /feeling proud of his ingenuity, and embarrassed that it was necessary
*Possibly not even dhorvath
**Customer has a race to get to and I couldn’t find my tool to save my life.
@FossilFishy Well I’m impressed. I’m not much of a mechanic, but I do love the two wheeled beasties (and I’m always losing tool). Perhaps in a few weeks time I’ll post pictures of the fixie roadbike I’m having built. I’m still waiting on my LBS to get back to me with options, but I’m leaning towards a Durcus frame, Velocity Deep-V rims, and Phil Wood hubs. Sorry, I’m bragging but I’m sure you can understand.
FossilFishy, that’s bush mechanicking at its finest. Congarats, you are evolving into an archetypical Aussie. May your tool shed be forever fruitful.
@ Caine
I’ll look out for it. (The illustrations online look interesting.)
@ David Marjanović
My babble-speak was a success!
.
They are not going to learn, I am afraid.
.
Flying cars.Drones. (Aldus Missy Cummings)…
My bathroom drain is also blocked.
Thanks dysomniak, and I do indeed understand. I’m not familiar with Durcus frames, Velocity Deep-V’s are nice but they’re bog standard fixie stuff, almost to the point of being a cliche, but Phil Woods hubs?… Yummy!
Thanks Lofty. You know your repair is ‘agricultural’, as they say round these parts, when it involves fence wire, bailing twine and/or the inappropriate use of a hammer. I had one such repair today as well. The customer bought a used bike trailer over the internet. It came with a jogging wheel that had a broken arm. The thing has no branding on it anywhere and we couldn’t find a spare for love or money.
I scraped out the hot melt glue the seller had unsuccessfully used, drilled a couple of holes on both sides of the break, glued it with a plastic specific super glue and ran wire between the holes. Felt strong, I have no idea if it’ll last but it was a proper bush fix. I wonder if it’ll count towards getting my Aussie citizenship?
[bicycles]
Tomorrow I go unicycle shopping!
I had never heard of durcus either, but my LBS proprietor rides one himself and swears they’re as good as any other SS road frame out there, unless I want to pay ten times the price for a custom Ti job. I know the velocities are a bit of a cliche, and I may end up going a different direction, but durability is a big priority for me and it seems like they’re hard to beat there. Could I ask what you’d recommend?
O.o
Can you actually shop for such a thing where you are? I mean, as far as I can tell there’s no choice at all here. Out of the dozen or so suppliers I have only two sell unicycles and they’re the same brand.
I haven’t really got any recommendations. As far as I can tell I have the only fixie in my small town of 3800 people and it has the original 27″ wheels. I hear good things about the Deep-V’s, don’t let their ubiquity put you off. Mind you, if dhorvath* shows up xe might have some ideas, xe’s experience is much broader than mine IIRC.
*Shit, now I’m wonder if I’ve got the right person….
Actually I might have a recommendation. WTB makes a good double wall cyclocross rim, can’t remember the model off the top of my head. Not as sexy as the Deep-V, but the giant of customer that I got them for hasn’t managed to so much as put them out of true, let alone taco one.
@ FossilFishy
Unicycling is fairly popular here (especially unicycle hockey!) and there is a reasonable range to choose from. I am buying second hand though.
.
Compulsory Image.
Thanks, I’ll check those out. I think my LBS guy used to work for WTB back in the day, so maybe he can get me a sweet deal. All in all I feel like I’m in pretty good hands with the guy, and while I don’t want to over pay for anything I’m lucky to have a flexible enough budget that I shouldn’t have to compromise either. As much as I like the guy though , I’m wary of putting all my faith in one man.
Sounds good dysomniak.
If I may ask a question? Are you going to put a front brake on it?
unicycle
hockey
in
Hong Kong
.
.
.
I’ll be in my bunk
I’m masochistic, not suicidal. Besides, brake pads are a lot cheaper than tires.
Phil Woods is a fine alto saxophonist (and a pretty good clarinetist too) but I know nothing of his hubs.
Holy Crap! The spitting image of the Thunderdome: Interior view.
[dragons]
Linky!
On the one hand I’m glad, and not at all surprised, that you’re rational about your fixie-to-be dysomniak, on the other hand I’m disappointed I didn’t get argue about it. :) Many of the disagreement here are far beyond my knowledge and experience. The mystic bullshit about riding brakeless however is something I’m very familiar with.
I have no idea if this relevant to you, but a fixed gear bike with knobby cyclocross tyres is the best thing I’ve used to go downhill in snowy, icy conditions*. When you’re braking by resisting the pedals you can feel the moment the tyre starts to skid. That feel allows maximum braking with maximum control. Mind you, a fixie is absolutely the worst bike for going uphill in those same conditions so it’s a bit of a wash overall.
*I’ve never tried a fat bike.
I’ve been riding a cheap internet fixie for about six months now, and a Kona Jake for a little over a year. Before that it was an assortment of junker mountain just to get around town. We don’t get a lot of snow in southern oregon but there was a freak blizzard in december so I had that pleasure of grinding the Kona through some pretty rough conditions. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to get my studded tires before the snow melted, but now I’m hoping that we get more before the winter is out.
I’ve got some advice on getting wheels built with an eye to longevity, but it’s bedtime here so I really shouldn’t get into it right now. If you’re interested I’ll post it here tomorrow. I really miss the challenge of riding in the snow. I liked starting my work day feeling like I’d already achieved something that required dedication and skill to pull off.
[fixies]
For the good order: Unicycles are fixies.
theophontes @358:
A tardigrade on a unicycle? I thought the 7th Plenary Council of The Peoples Republic of Pharyngia, North Thunderdome Soviet, had banned that.
Theophontes:
Purty.
theophontes:
Is that a big tub of guacamole front and center? Where are the chips?
My temper is on a short leash today. Imma go work.
I really hate that “methinks … doth protest too much” thingy.
If I trolled a comment to the effect that anyone who uses it must provide the bible verse it is taken from,
would I catch anyone?
Chigau:
*snort* It might be worth a try.
*Mr. Burns hands*
Excellent.
Next time…
theophontes:
I’d always imagined there’d be more lasers.
Enough lasers that they’d (instantaneously) use more power than the rest of the United States combined.
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2014/01/the-national-ignition-facility/100659/
—
Some of the preliminary research was … interesting. From Pfft:
(My emphasis.)
No shit.
I’ll take anyone’s Sand Won’t Save You This Time and raise you a What to do when there’s a Nuke in the Fume Hood.
Chigau
Equally effective might be to ask them to explain the actual meaning of the original quotation. (It’s not what people tend to think, as the language has somewhat changed.)
Yes, but only contemporary postcolonial interpretations are meaningful, not what some dead white guy meant by it centuries ago.
I learned that recently somewhere.
Fossil Fishy,
You got me dialed, I love hearing about bodge tool improv. And I am impressed, I suspect I would have tried something SAE in the same situation, now I have a new avenue. Not that I have been anywhere similar. (14mm crank retention bolts can be convinced to remove some thru-axle freehub bodies, eh?!?)
___
Dysomniac,
Depends on what you want to do with it. Aside from the PW hubs, they will be around for as long as you want so if you have the means, please proceed. I won’t get into it more than that, wall o bike text is my thing, but may not be everyone else’s.
Are they building the wheels? At least pay attention to what they like to work with and don’t. They will know what they can cope with and what they don’t like. (I honestly think that the biggest issue isn’t the product, it’s the builder. I can make great wheels with rims that people I know can’t, and some of them can work with rims that I fight to get round.)
___
Theophontes,
I have a unicycle. Trialsy though, what are you looking for yours to do?
___
FF,
Imagine sliding, but not losing your balance. Low pressure, wide tires are great for footprint, but they don’t make much difference in terms of grip on ice.
Err, what time? Should I set my alarm? It’s not like I am interested or anything. No sir, not me. But, you know, just in case…
http://www.economist.com/node/1176741
(Dear Lord, I remember reading that in a print copy. Which must have been 11 years ago. *sigh*)
Theophontes:
Cool pic of the interior of the Thunderdome. Not enough destruction though.
My husband decided to make the cabbage and potato soup from Skyrim this week. (He found a recipe online) We liked it so much that he made it twice. I highly recommend it.
@FossilFishy – I’m definitely interested, but only if you want to share. This isn’t a desperate cry for help or anything, as I definitely think I’m on the right track (so to speak,) so don’t put yourself out.
@Dhorvath – I always welcome wall o bike text, and will do my best to understand it. Other people, I believe, have scroll wheels. Or you could drop me any links you think I should read. This is going a commuter and “personal fitness” bike. I’d like it to be track legal in case I ever get a chance to ride in a ‘drome, but that’s a long shot and I’m not really the competitive sort. Since it’s rare that I can afford to spend this way I’m looking to go all out on the frame, wheels, and cranks. I’m also planning to get a range of cogs, a couple chainwheels, and probably two sets of handlebars (drops and bulls).
I am indeed having the wheels hand built. I hadn’t considered that different wheelbuilders would have drastically different results with the same rims, but it makes sense. Aside from some complaints about weight (usually with the admission that they are correspondingly rugged), I haven’t come across any really good reason not to go with the velocities, so if that’s what my guy thinks he can make me the best wheels with I should probably trust him.
I require help with a guy called v3nesl, and he’s refused to come here. This topic’s to do with morality as well as Biblical genocide among other things. Here’s the latest response I ended up getting. Any help provided would be much appreciated.
Thanks guys,
Jon
I have two questions:
1) Why do some people feel the need to “win” arguments with evil morons by getting others to do all the work for them?
2) Why do some other people keep indulging this behavior?
dysomniak:
If you’re asking about Jon Milne, it’s all he’s ever done here. Refuses to provide links to where said argument is taking place so that people can argue for themselves if they wish. I assume he wants all the credit.
Eh, this SIWOTI central.
Alright, links: http://www.debate.org/forums/science/topic/36914/11/ and http://www.debate.org/forums/science/topic/36914/12/
a while ago in the comments of this post:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/12/16/but-mr-craig/
there was a lot of discussion on morality and meta-ethics.
well i recently stumbled upon this post that might have cleared some things up:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/4498
dysomniak and dhorvanth
Alright, wall ‘o cycling stuff coming up. Sorry if this is too 101, it seems better to just go over it all instead of having to backtrack.
All three components of a wheel, the hub, the spokes and the rim can wear out.
Rims wear on the braking surface, assuming rim brakes are used. Obviously a thicker braking surface will last longer. I’m not sure if there’s much variation in that dimension though. Because the rotating mass on your bike has the most effect on its performance I suspect that there’s not much difference in braking surface wall thickness. The manufacturers are all trying to make their wheels as light as possible. If you have two rims of equal weight, I’d go with the one with a thicker wall, but I wouldn’t worry about it too much because with a fixie you’ll not be using the brake all that often.* Besides, cleaning the braking surface regularly and replacing the pads often will greatly increase the life of your rim.
Spokes also wear, or more accurately: they work harden. An oft heard debate in times of yore amongst cycling geeks was whether or not the hub stood on the bottom spokes or hung from the top. It turned out that experiments with a force gauge showed that they hang from the top ones and the bottom ones go slack.
What this means is that the spoke head, where it goes into the hub, is bending very slightly at the elbow each time the wheel goes around. Slowly over time that bending causes the metal to work harden, to become more brittle. Eventually it will break. I always tell customers that if they break one spoke at the head to replace it and not worry about it. If they break a second, replace it and start to worry. If they break a third it’s most likely that all the spokes are at the end of their life and need to be replaced so doing the whole thing will be more cost effective.
The way to get the most life out of your spokes is to make sure that they are tight as possible. This reduces the flexing which makes the time to failure greater. For most rims the acceptable range of spoke tension is 95 to 120 Kg of force average on the drive side for rear wheels, and on the disc side for disc brake front wheels. Fixed rear hubs often are designed so that the right and left sides can be made equal tension, and front rim brake hubs always have equal tension. Some rim manufacturers have a specific range, often a bit slacker than the above, but this is usually on light-weight racing kit.
So how does the consumer make sure that the spoke tensions are in the acceptable range? Without a spoke tension gauge it’s impossible. My suggestion is to ask your wheel builder if they use a spoke tension gauge and request that they tighten the spokes to the maximum that that rim will allow. If they say they don’t need a gauge and offer some bullshit about it being an art, walk away. Wheel building is no mystery, it’s just as amenable to testable, repeatable practices as anything else in the world.
I’d also avoid fancy spoke patterns. There’s a reason that the three cross wheel is bog standard. The way the spokes line up, with one spoke pulling in almost exact line with one on the other side at the outside edge of the hub reduces that flexing of the spoke heads. A four cross wheel is even better at it, but most hubs won’t allow that and you might arguably end up causing the spoke to flex, and thus work harden, at the nipple because it will be coming into the rim at a greater angle.
Hubs wear, but if you’re buying Phil Woods don’t worry about it. If you were buying something with cup and cone bearings and a quick release I’d have a few things to say about setting up bearing tension. But PW track hubs have sealed bearings and are bolt on, and quite frankly, have been put together by a company famous for its anal attention to detail. It’s unlikely in the extreme that anyone could do anything to them that would make them last longer.
TL;DR
Ask your builder if they use a spoke tension gauge and request that they tighten the spokes as much as the rim will allow. Ask them what that maximum tension is and if it isn’t around 120 kg average ask them why not. Acceptable responses would be along the lines of “This manufacture recommends….” or “I’ve seen the spokes pull through at that tension on this rim.” unacceptable answers include the phrase “I don’t think that’s necessary. and “That’s too much.” without giving a justification as to why its too much, and the like. Walk away from the woo.
*Projecting here. I ride a fixie as if it didn’t have a brake on it. Part of the fun is the concentration, the anticipation that is necessary to compensate for the slower braking. I love the way it takes my full attention and shuts up that endlessly babbling internal narrator that lives in my head.
Er, that’d be dhorvath. Fucking hell, you’d think I’d know by now to cut and past nyms. Sorry.
My tensionmeter is my best friend, but it still won’t let me build a reliable wheel with Stan’s rims. Grrr.
___
And don’t sweat the spelling, I got the idea.
Never done one with Stan’s, what’s the problem?
What brand of meter do you have?
I use the Park one (it’s name is Rita) and have gotten grief for it from a supplier. I ordered a wheel, a full-on downhill beast, and when it came the spokes were just below 95kgf on the drive side. I called and asked what tension they’d done it to and I was told 120. I sent it back and they returned it to me unchanged, and they accused me of getting it wrong because of my meter.
But here’s the thing, the Park meter is accurate, it’s not precise, I do interpolation to get precision, but it is accurate. I borrowed 90 kg of weights from the local gym* and spent an afternoon calibrating my meter using good spokes and cheap ones, as well as 1.8 and 2mm thickness. It turned out that my meter was just a hair low, not enough to be worried about, but enough to put it just below 95kgf. Never mind that they didn’t do it up to the top of the range despite telling me that. Blah. It also seemed like the good spokes read just slightly lower than the cheap ones, but that lack of precision means I’m not confident about it.
*I’m never doing that again, it was a bit of a workout. I’ve now got a reference wheel with three precisely tensioned spokes to check my meter against.
The James Kohl thread proves that some shitclowns actually can respond to multiple commenters and keep pace. It dawned on me how some trolls/creationists/MRAs complain that they can’t keep up with all the comments directed their way. Next time one of them whines about that, I’m going to direct them to Kohl’s Thread.
Pharyngula is too weird tonight.
An understatement so deep that it’s damn near subtextual.
Chigau:
All the jackasses have descended. Besides Captain Cabbage still going, there’s a libertarian twit and a “hey, devil’s advocate!” takeover on the abortion thread. Something in the water. Gotta be.
On another appendage, we did New Year pot-luck dinner at the community hall.
I may not need to eat until Spring.
*burp*
Stan’s BST rims are non-eyeleted, thin walled nightmares. The most popular option in years past was the ZTR Race and that rim is only rated into the low nineties for tension, which means the non-drive spokes end up more like sixty. Too damn low for me to build a wheel that holds tension for any manner of time, but some people seem to get by just fine. I don’t get it. Even their stronger options top out at one-ten and I find I drop tension consistently on any wheel I build with them.
Caine @398:
That would be the 4-methylcyclohexane methanol.
Not to worry, though. The coal industry has our best interests in mind.
We were watching The Astonishing Xmen last night when my daughter and I noticed that a certain mutant bore an uncanny *snicker* resemblance to a certain godless liberal biologist.
http://statici.behindthevoiceactors.com/behindthevoiceactors/_img/chars/char_19725.jpg
;)
Ogvorbis:
I think it’s something else. I’m terribly afraid someone has managed to distill stupidity and dumped it in the water. Beware the liquid stupid!
Thanks, FossilFishy! Not too 101 for me at all (though I expect that was more directed at Dhorvath). It hadn’t occured to me to ask if my guy uses a gauge, but I certainly don’t want my wheels built by someone who doesn’t think he needs one! I’m seriously considering buying one of my own, along with a truing stand – not to build these wheels, but to start practicing and maybe do the next respoke? I dunno, maybe I woudn’t use it enough to be worthwhile, but I like the idea. Of course, I also need a trainer, some better cold weather gear, storage that takes up less than half my living room…
Oh well, there are worse addictions to have.
vie Tauriq Moosa:
“Fun Fact” #1
“Fun Fact” #2
Aren’t those fun? Thanks, ‘E!’!
I am spending this night watching old episodes of QI.
Dysomniak,
Our new sales person who started early summer has something like twenty years of bike shop experience. He had no idea what my tensionmeter was. Not a mechanic, but he has seen his share of wheels built in those two decades. There are a lot of people who trust ‘fingers’ over springs. I don’t get it, I know how much my hand strength varies over a work week, but even knowing that I couldn’t dream of compensating to ensure consistent work. We see similar with carbon fibre components and torque wrenches, some people just won’t believe that a measuring device can be more useful than ‘feel’.
@vaiyt
I’m not talking about that particular study. I was more interested in the general case. It’s well known that the way you ask a question can influence the answers you get. I was just wondering if anyone knew of studies of a possible effect of multiple scenarios vs. a straightforward yes or no.
For example, a straight answer will force people into taking a stand; for or against. Multiple options allow them to moderate and consider exceptions. To take your cannibalism example, if you ask people “is cannibalism okay, yes or no?” I think most would answer no. However, if you ask them if it’s okay “if you’re stranded far from help, starving and the other person is already dead” you will probably see a change.
Back to the case of rape, multiple scenarios allow people to say yes to some cases, while still considering themselves not rapists because “well, I only said sometimes.” It allows them to mentally distance themselves from the “real” rapists.
The many options hide the fact that all the details are actually unimportant. People get sidetracked considering all sorts of things that don’t really relate to the central point: Lack of consent.
It’s similar to (if you’ll forgive an odd comparison) word problems in math. Most such problems are actually ludicrously simple, requiring nothing more than basic arithmetic. However, people get confused because the important information is buried under an avalanche of irrelevant details.
So, I was just curious if such a possibility had been studied (in general, not specifically in relation to this study). Any information is appreciated.
That was in response to this, to avoid derailing that thread.
So, Dhorvath and FF (I really appreciate you both sharing your knowledge with me here), what would I be risking if I were to buy a meter and do the initial assembly myself and then take the wheels into the shop for a final truing? I really want to learn how to do this stuff myself, but I don’t want to wreck a brand new set of rims doing it.
Wilford, you fuckwit, PZ has stated, numerous times, that he has nothing to do with A+. The fact that he provides a link to the forum means nothing, PZ links to all manner of atheist concerns, and does think that atheists being concerned with SJ issues is a fine thing. That’s it.
There is no atheist pope, but there is atheist god. It is PZ. For from him and through him and for him are all things.
Like Atheism + . And feminism. And squid.
Beatrice:
Psssssssssst, I think our official dogma is supposed to be sekrit, only discussed in the underground volcano lair.
And PZ is Atheist Santa Claws!
Oh dammit. I just can’t keep a secret.
@LykeX
The point is, most of these scenarios aren’t even remotely as morally ambiguous as the one you cited. You’d have to come up with a lot of really out-there possibilities to get remotely the same approval to cannibalism as we see to rape.
Just because…
Yahweh approves of cannibalism.
“I also will do this unto you… You shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.” — Leviticus 26:16
“And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.” — Leviticus 26:29
“And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters.” — Deuteronomy 28:53
“And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them.” — Deuteronomy 28:57
“Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm.” — Isaiah 9:19-20
“And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine.” — Isaiah 49:26
“And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend.” — Jeremiah 19:9
“Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers.” — Ezekiel 5:10
“I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.” — Zechariah 11:9
“This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him.” 2 Kings 6:28-29
“The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat.” — Lamentations 4:10
“Who pluck off their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones; Who also eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron.” — Micah 3:2-3
“Heap on wood, kindle the fire, consume the flesh, and spice it well, and let the bones be burned. Then set it empty upon the coals thereof, that the brass of it may be hot, and may burn, and that the filthiness of it may be molten in it, that the scum of it may be consumed. She hath wearied herself with lies, and her great scum went not forth out of her: her scum shall be in the fire. — Ezekiel 24:10-12
And of course, the one most people know:
“Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. — John 6:53-54
Caine @ 411:
PZ may not post there, but every time he states his view about atheism needing to be more than a dictionary definition and makes statements about atheism being a necessary starting point for ethics, he’s got plenty to do with A+ as a putative movement. There’s are unofficial connections elsewhere to A+ on FreethoughtBlogs too. As I said before, it’s like the Taliban that way. Lots of identifying with A+, even if there’s no direct connection to the aforementioned website.
Now you’re comparing atheism+ to the taliban, while elsewhere you defend the pope? Fuck off, gomer, you’re too stupid to post here.
My apologies for making the analogy between A+ and the Taliban. There are other, better, comparisons for loose associations of like-minded people to be sure.
PZ
That A+ looking link on the side-bar is apparently misleading.
Chigau:
I’m pretty sure the mass amount of links on the sidebar are all misleading. I mean, expecting someone to think? Go by facts? Tchah, nonsense.
There doesn’t even exist a link to atheism plus forums anywhere on the sidebar.
Deliberate misdirection. I’m not surprised.
I meant other links, not the flashy red A which is another deliberate misdirection (as the two of you mentioned)
I’m slow
Beatrice, well, ya know, if one wasn’t around for the Out Campaign, and didn’t know what the fuck it signified, one might go to the vast trouble of placing their mouse over the HUGE MISDIRECTION™, noting that it links to the out campaign, which one could then click, to see what it was all about. Work, work, work.
Geesh, sometimes I think DW is really an old fashioned concern troll, really a theist trying to damage the atheist movement from the inside, by being so concerned about swear words that get folks attention and might shake them up a little, having a progressive social change offshoot to soften the evil atheists image, trying to make us loose focus and effectiveness on our criticism of religion.
You know who else was confused about something one time?
The Taliban.
Not to mention Hitler. Well, okay, I’ll mention him too. Why not?
So when David Wilford thinks about Atheism+ the first comparison which pops into his mind is the Taliban.
CR:
Might as well toss in Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Why not?
Oh, we can toss in that God the pope believes in, ’cause if you go by that book of his, he’s killed waaaaay more than any puny earthling.
@ 429:
It was the comparison that came to mind at the time, Al Dente. Again, my apologies.
A better example that wouldn’t have had the emotional baggage would have been anarchists, which in the U.S. are rather fragmented organization-wise but do share common goals and purposes.
I don’t see the connection. We were talking about Taliban and Hitler and so forth. We should probably stick with “loose” associations based on their more salient features, like that there’s lots of identifying with them, even if there’s no direct connection to their website. There’s also being a bunch of confused fuckers, like David Wilford. Of course, I’m sure if this god is omni-everything, it’d have to be pretty confused about itself being impossible, though I bet even lesser creator deities would have plenty to worry about.
But violence? Hardly what they’re known for, you know?
You really have a talent for saying stupid shit, don’t you?
@ 433:
What’s your problem with anarchists? It would seem to fit your definition of “loose” associations, no?
CR:
He not only says stupid shit, he repeats it ad nauseum!
[CAUTION: Bike update]
Just stopped by the shop while out running other errands, the owner assures me that not only does he use a meter but it is one of the fancy-schmancy ones. I’ve already forgotten the brand, but I feel better now.
I think the problem is that comparing a group to anarchists is to say there’s no order at all. A loose collection of like minded people is not the same as outright anarchy. A collection of sites with sometimes overlapping membership with similar, but not always the same, ideals does not really equal a total lack of structure that is often connotative with Anarchism.
But then again I don’t speak for actual anarchists. Of course I’m willing to admit this and I’d bet dollars to donuts that David Wilford, the amazing fact free human, has never met an anarchist either but presumes to speak for them like he does with basically everyone else.
Also here’s a thought you might want to think David Wilford: Your immediate gut descriptions of the Atheist movement are “The Taliban” and “Anarchists”. However you bend over backwards to endorse and defend a corrupt authoritarian institution like the Roman Catholic Church. Do you think this says anything about you and your priorities?
Ugh, I am NOT going to wade into an argument about anarchism here (I only delurk for bike talk), but maybe before throwing the term around willy-nilly people could at least read the wikipedia entry?
Okay, I’ve been away awhile, but I do know how to use ctrl-F and David W appears to have jumped in after Caine’s 411, and I hadn’t seen him here for a while when last I posted, which wasn’t that long ago.
What am I missing in the current dust-up? Or did Caine just take a while to get back to David W after some trickling off of the discussion he kicked off when he was mortified I asked him to read the “fucking” thread not too long ago?
Really, if the mere presence of the word fucking caused such danger to his valuable, valuable pearls, one would think he would advocate for my immediate bannination.
Okay, gotta go. I’ll be checking in.
David Wilford is being David Wilford in the recent thread “Clear-eyed commentary on the pope”. Wilford came to Thunderdome following a derail to the derail about Atheism+
@439
Crip Dyke
the convo is a spill over from this place, i think:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/01/09/clear-eyed-commentary-on-the-pope/
it’s been going on for days. no end in sight.
I remember that David Wilford’s debut ran for over 6 weeks before PZ finally closed the thread. For a person who claims to not want to win and who thinks arguing is pointless David Wilford really does want to win arguments.
i also think DW wants to cause anger and misery. DW can’t be that oblivious to the effect. especially in the subject of the catholic church etc.
@omnicrom & brianpansky:
Wow, thanks.
I decided to start from google-scratch and give a shot at finding the related thread….and found it on my own. Which means I needn’t have bothered y’all, sorry.
On the plus side, you’re wonderful for embracing my laziness and threadruptness. Thanks again.
especially @omnicrom:
Yeah, when I found the pope thread, I noticed the “diminishing returns” comment.
Seriously? Addressing the same topic and/or using the same words in new sentences/conversations = a reason to shut up?
Why hasn’t he called on the Catholic Church to dismantle itself already?
and another error:
It was drinsomnia I told to read the fucking thread recently. I remember David W’s fainting spells, but incorrectly gave myself a role in provoking one. Chalk it up to my megalomania.
omnicrom @ 442:
I remember my debut better than you, dude:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031008132613/http://pharyngula.org/comments/62_0_1_0_C/
BTW, The length of threads on Usenet were long, and deep. I kind of miss those days now that the Facebookization of the web has lead to the demise of the long, drawn-out discussion.
Crip Dyke @ 444:
Because it ain’t gonna do that just because I ask it to, that’s why. Duh.
I’m just going to quickly say that back when Chris Clarke was blogging here, there was a general consensus to drop the pearl clutching meme, because of it’s sexist nature. Thanks to The Mellow Monkey, we settled on a happy new one, that of ‘popping a monocle’.
@David W:
Ah, but we’re going to stop using profanity because you’ve asked us to do so.
I now understand the obvious utility criterion you have employed to determine which actions are worth your time. Thank you so much for making complete sense.
there are so many reasons that I like The Mellow Monkey…and you, Caine.
Thanks.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand this is the source of the monocle popping thing: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/12/14/before-you-reach-for-the-its-not-guns-its-the-cray-cray-argument/comment-page-1/#comment-514417
David Wilford (#412 of this thread)
Holy shit, that’s what you got from my example? Because that’s totally not what it meant. It expressed zero exasperation of my own. The extent of my own opinion was that the traditionalists in Meiji-era Japan who wanted to retain the old, kanji-heavy style of writing were assholes, but I’m hardly going to get upset with a bunch of ultimately ineffectual nitwits whose influence ran out at the end of the 19th century. Everything in single quotes was a paraphrase of their attitude, with lots of cussing added for emphasis and color.
And I suggest you reflect on the ill manners involved in telling other people what their intentions are. Especially after I just told you why I cuss. But noooo, you have a narrative to stuff us all into. And that’s so damn important that you can’t even be wrong about what we feel.
(#414)
“The atheist position”? What in the everloving fuck is “the atheist position”? And since when is the public unanimous in their feelings towards cussing? I’m asking seriously, so maybe when you get back from your “break” you can answer both of those.
the manifesto of david wilford.
More like agree with me or I will post unevidenced fuckwittery forever, just to piss you off.
Caine,
Thanks for the reminder about pearl clutching. I either had not read that thread or I forgot about it.
A. Noyd,
I don’t know either. Is it like the opposite of a missionary position?
wakka wakka?
No?
Ok.
*shuffles to the corner*
@brianpansky & Nerd:
Look, I have it on good authority through a back channel that David Wilford has been collecting data on every thread in which he has participated for 10 years now, and wouldn’t you know it, but the data shows that in any thread in which David Wilford participates, the probability of derailment does indeed approach 1 as n->infinity, with p >.99 @ n=150, where n is the total number of comments minus the number of comments before David Wilford joined the conversation.
The guy is clearly just taking the rational position on derailments: after all, what could be wrong with this logic?*
*You wouldn’t suggest that David Wilford is underneath these derailments, would you?
David Wilford surely wastes a lot of time and effort in telling us he doesn’t care about what we do.
.
I feel I should also comment on his willingness to live and let live, as demonstrated by his months not-telling us to not-shut up because we’re not-totally doing things wrong.
For David Wilford, they are one and the same.
Wakka wakka?
No?
I’ll be over here popping my monocle.*
*why does that sound so much dirtier than “the atheist position”?
Jackie (#455)
Opposite of these? [Probably NSFW despite the lack of nudity.]
The last day or two of interacting with our loathsome visitor has made me conclude that David Wilford has tremendously selective attention. You were saying something that contradicted him factually, David Wilford knew he was correct, ergo David Wilford could not read or understand what you said. QED.
And now that I think about it I’m glad to know that David Wilford is at least consistent. That crack about Usenet tells me that David Wilford doesn’t just profess divine knowledge of arguing, he also takes his “My way or the highway” attitude to the Internet in general and I suspect to a great many other things. I would be thoroughly unsurprised if David Wilford professed supreme, unwavering confidence in lecturing nearly anyone on nearly anything.
David Wilford, about derailing threads – that’s against the commenting rules, you fuckwit. You know, you could at least attempt to learn a teeny tiny thing now and then, if for no other reason, then to demonstrate your brain is not completely atrophied as of yet.
Also, usenet still exists. Sort of. Go back and relive your glory days of boring the hells out of everyone, and leave us be to have actual discussions.
Omnicrom:
I have no doubt he thinks no one else here was hanging on usenet back in the day. I’d be right pleased if he would head right back there, to whatever groups which were tainted with his presence.
It’s a fact that at least PZ was on Usenet, but then again so were Mabus and Kw*k.
Vaiyt, yes, PZ was on usenet, so was I, so were half the commentariat. Wilford seems to wish to give the impression that usenet was a sort of rarified Algonquin round table. It wasn’t. Still isn’t.
Hah. Pharyngula is the refined, polite version of usenet.
PZ:
And people think Pharyngula is rough. Tsk.
Dysomniak,
Risk? Nothing. I would recommend Gerd Schraner’s book, The Art of Wheelbuilding for a start. You might luck into a process that laces consistently, but why not just use the knowledge that is out there and focus on learning a new skill. It’s not rocket surgery, but it is, in my opinion, the most satisfying thing one does with tools for bikes.
I cannot stress enough the importance of process, if you try to just take one spoke at a time up to it’s rated tension bad things, (bad things I say!,) will happen. Egg shapes are common with first attempts. Small adjustments applied consistently to more spokes trumps coarse adjustments to one. As for learning, a track rear and road front wheel have the most consistent tension/dish requirement and as such will be easier than other options. (For comparison, I find a disc 135mm offset fatbike wheel something that ought to wait until some habits have formed(I actually drop spokes on some of these to compensate for bizarre differences between high and low tension spokes. At least, on my own wheels.))
Damn, I said I wouldn’t wall of text. I do have a singletrack mind.
Shit. I can stop, but I will not do so yet. If you have good starting materials, good process, and even tension the battle is, at least in my experience, basically done. You won’t arrive at even tension without good process and good materials, and once you have that, you ought to be within a quarter turn or so of round and true. The thing you may need assistance with given the two requirements I set is dish, but on the wheels you describe, that ought to settle of it’s own accord within, say, .5mm. Again, not rocket surgery, and something I think that most people can achieve.
[unicycle]
Didn’t get it in the end – too small. I’ll be looking around for a small wheeled trickcycle when I get a round tuit.
[Thunderdome interior view]
Many good suggestions in the comments. Lasers, destruction and gore to be added. Along with Nachos. I’ll put the blueprints in with the Uniforms ™ .
@ Caine
I would be completely fascinated to learn how people like Ken Ham go about with such inconvenient biblical “facts”.
@ David Wilford
Thank GAWD you posted that comment, I was just about to compare our local Mahjong club to a bunch of murderous, vindictive, religious fanatics. You have just saved me from a lot of unnecessary embarrassment.
Theophontes:
That’s different. Mahjong is serious business.
Yeah, when the Redhead reaches for the tiles, it’s time for me to go elsewhere. (Dang, time for a new card????)
Next month, I’m going to join the Dance Club.
I’ve offered to do the male rolls, since there are so few men in the club.
This should be Fun™!
I don’t know if David Wilford is still reading, but on the off chance that he is:
http://www.salon.com/2014/01/14/how_pope_francis_brought_me_back_to_catholicism/
You see that?
That’s the result of the pope’s PR campaign. He wants to get people back into the church by shifting the media focus away from their outspoken opposition to homosexuality and abortion. The RCC hasn’t actually changed any of their doctrine regarding either. They’ve simply changed the way they publicly speak about it. In the case of Joshunda Sanders (the writer of the article), it appears to have worked. I’ve no doubt others feel the same way he does. He’s fallen for the false hope that the pope has provided. A gay man, once driven away from the church finds himself drawn back.
Not because the church has actually changed, but because the church is not opposing social justice as vocally as it did previously. But they haven’t stopped doing what they’ve been doing all along.
Dysomniak
Yup, listen to dhrovath*, xe’s got the right of it.
I’ll go further and say that how easy it is to learn to build wheels is in part dependent on your personality. For a couple of summers I was the chief mechanic at a community bike shop, one of those places where you buy a membership and then can come use the specialised tools and work stands to fix your own bike. There has to be someone there to say “Put down that hammer!” and “That’s not a hammer!” as well as coach people through repairs. One of the best jobs I ever had, bikes and teaching: so good.
I found that there were people with whom I’d spend fifteen minutes explaining the basics of wheel truing (Not full building, but really, that’s just more steps.) and when I’d come back to check they’d have it done perfectly. Other folks I’d spend the same fifteen minutes, and then another, and another and eventually I’d end up having to stand over them to make sure it got done right.
It’s fiddly, sequential work where you have to take your time and check often to make sure you haven’t got turned around, especially when starting out. But dhorvath is right, it’s not rocket surgery.
I’d also point out that there’s no substitute for having the right tools. I’ve known people who’ve used the frame or fork on their bike as a truing stand but that’s really ill-advised when starting out. My first “truing stand” was an add on for my Park consumer grade repair stand. It only had one indicator arm, rather than the caliper-like two arms a proper truing stand has, and it was damn near useless to me as a beginner.
The downside to doing it yourself is of course the cost. Even cheap truing stands are fairly expensive and the Park tension gauge is not all that cheap, though it is the most affordable I’ve found. If you’re only going to do this once then buying a wheel or getting someone to do it for you is likely to be more cost effective. Mind you, that didn’t stop me, passions are not always reasonable. :)
If you live in a big city I’d look for a community bike shop like the one I worked at. They’re often called “Bike Kitchens”. It’s a good way to try this stuff out at minimal expense.
I will also say that I love building wheels. It’s one of my favourite jobs. Taking a bunch of sticks, a hoop and an useless spinning cylinder and turning them into a *WHEEL* is incredibly satisfying.
*That’s not a wall of text. Now this? This is a wall o’ text. :)
Er, that’d be “Bike Kitchens” if you’re in an English speaking part of the world. I have no idea what other cultures would call them.
I am so glad that I imprinted on Pharyngula open threads as to ‘how to do commenting on a blog’.
I ♥ this place.
Murderous, vindictive, religious fanatics!!!
Loose association of like-minded people.
SHHHHHHHHH!!!! The first rule of Dance Club is always interpretive dance about Dance Club.
theophontes
They are mostly late-middle-aged to elderly women so they are basically terrifying.
Not at all religious.
@ chigau
Not a sort of Suburban Taliban? Not even a teensy bit?
While we are on the subject of hyperbole:
Linky: Teh Beeb.
So Wilford is actually a horrifying mishmash of Lady Catherine de Bourgh and Polonius? Sent from the past to rescue the future from the dearth of proper USENet-type discursive discussions?
FossilFishy
Our city has a bicycle workshop that helps the poor and refugee peoples onto wheels.
Fossil Fishy,
Too funny, I got my start in a community bike shop too. The one I was at was part of my university; no points for guessing why I don’t have a degree.
A surprisingly good asylum decision in the UK: Atheist Afghan granted religious asylum in UK.
I’ve never heard it called a ‘bike kitchen’, but one of our local bike coops has a set of tools and a stand that folks can use. I’ve also gotten great help from the university bike coop during my student years.
chigau:
Forwards, backwards, or teddy bear?
Are you sure you haven’t signed up for Gym Club?
Re. Gym Club, chez cm, kid #2 is all about the bridge kickover.
Unrelatedly, kid #1 is currently devouring the Hyperbole and a Half book.
And kid #3 is, for the record, The God of Cake. I shit you not. Should you come between her and cake, you have been warned.
(It’s birthday season. Fun times!)
Kohl has a new entry on his Pheromone.com site:
http://pheromones.com/chromosomal-rearrangements-ecological-adaptations/
(excerpt)
Tony #490, not surprised at all. True cranks can never lose an argument. The soggy ape guy was never refuted in his mind, even though he had no real evidence to back up his theory. Txpiper just couldn’t accept random mutation no matter how much evidence was thrown his way; there had to be a plan. Once they become True Believers™, reality goes out the window.
Here’s the funny part: teh ECO compared Kohlkopf to J.A. Davison, and so even though Kohl has never read anything of Davison’s–all he knows is that PZ said that Davison thought “evolution was all due to chromosome rearrangements”–he’s decided Davison was right too, and incorporated just that much into his boilerplate:
The enemy of his enemy is his friend. That’s Science!!!
Tony! @ 490 : I noticed he put a few of my comments there, but did not answer them.
Now he not only claims that chromosomal rearrangements are NOT mutations, but also that his All Mighty Pheromones induce them somehow.
Whereas the reality-based community knows many ways chromosomal rearrangements can happen – NONE of which involve the intervention of magical pheromones (unless you call ionizing radiation a ‘pheromone’ … )
Who would want to BUY those pheromones, given he claims they alter your DNA in magically directed ways ?
It’s quiet …
I don’t think that I knew this…
Wikipedia has a page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
wow
am I ever sheltered
oh dear
they’re missing some
Evangelical pastor characterised as “gullible” by her lawyer in a drug bust case.
Why the fuck is that fucking popelicker Wilford still hanging around?
David Wilford:
What are you trying to accomplish by being here?
Actually, Wilford is taking a PZ enforced break at the moment. I’m sure he’ll be back for the next pope thread, claiming that the pope wiped his nose in a very liberal manner, indicating great changes to come.
LykeX, well for someone who was supposed to be on a multiple days break, it didn’t sink. Wilford is commenting again.