Dec 05 2012

How anti-vaxxers see the world

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That Evil Mr Vaccine. Doesn’t he understand that if there is no polio or smallpox making bad children suffer, the good children won’t have anything to gloat about?

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38 comments

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1

deephlat

5 December 2012 at 2:54 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Mr. Vaccine isn’t legit because vaccinia vaccines are administered with poking prongs.
2

Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts

5 December 2012 at 2:57 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

A needle that large really would be quite dangerous.
3

Janine: Hallucinating Liar

5 December 2012 at 3:00 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Heh! That reminds me of the illustration on the back cover ofToo Many Songs By Tom Lerher.
4

christiansteenhorst-baker

5 December 2012 at 3:02 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

It’s clever, but I have a question. Do anti-vaxxers contend that vaccinations DON’T prevent disease? I thought their whole beef was the autism thing.
5

DLC

5 December 2012 at 3:10 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Yes, because everyone knows putting tocs sins in your body is bad.
Unless of course you’re injecting one of the most powerful nerve toxins known to man directly into your face. Then it’s just botox.
Fucking Idiots.
6

skeptifem

5 December 2012 at 3:17 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

someone keeps making their own anti-vaccine posters in SLC. I think it is the same person who keeps putting up the 9/11 truth ones (based on the style). the ones ive seen here have the vaccine needle resembling a bomb being dropped instead of a creepy parade leader…
7

bobo

5 December 2012 at 3:21 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I heard an idiot say that he does not trust vaccines because his children got the whooping cough shot, then got whopping cough so thus vaccines = worthless
8

dianne

5 December 2012 at 3:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Mr. Vaccine isn’t legit because vaccinia vaccines are administered with poking prongs.

And polio’s an oral vaccine in most places. Maybe the caption should be about how nobody gets measles any more, except that there are ongoing measles outbreaks in places where the vaccine rate is low.
9

slowdjinn

5 December 2012 at 3:30 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

@ christiansteenhorst-baker

Anti-vaxxers variously claim that:

– Vaccines are intrinsically harmful.
– Vaccines are not harmful per se, but contain highly toxic additives.
– Vaccines are inneffective, and are a Big Pharma money-making scam.
– Vaccines are effective, but aren’t necessary because [insert alt-med woo] is better and safer.
– Vaccines are unnecessary for *their* children, because herd immunity will prevent them from being exposed to diseases.
– Vaccines are unnecessary because influenza, measles, whooping cough etc. aren’t dangerous diseases.

I may have missed a couple – but those are the main arguments I’ve heard.
10

jstackpo

5 December 2012 at 3:36 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Not only all of the above, but Mr. Vaccine sure doesn’t even know how to hold and play a (transverse) flute.

Clearly untrustworthy.
11

SC (Salty Current), OM

5 December 2012 at 3:37 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I’m impressed.

It can’t be easy to play a flute while hopping along on a needle point.
12

jnorris

5 December 2012 at 3:45 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I grow-up not knowing polio. I feel so deprived.
13

SC (Salty Current), OM

5 December 2012 at 3:55 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I may have missed a couple – but those are the main arguments I’ve heard.

Related to your last…

- Vaccines interfere with the “natural” process of developing immunity by getting the disease.
14

sceptinurse

5 December 2012 at 4:02 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

bobo
5 December 2012 at 3:21 pm

“I heard an idiot say that he does not trust vaccines because his children got the whooping cough shot, then got whopping cough so thus vaccines = worthless”

My youngest son had this problem with the first 2 dPT’s. After that he just got the dT for the rest of his vaccinations. When he went to Nursing School a few years ago he got the TDaP. No problems.

I really don’t understand the sweeping condemnation of all things pharmaceutical just because one drug is problematic for someone.
15

Acolyte of Sagan

5 December 2012 at 6:06 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Britain’s most famous polio victim could almost have had the anti-vaxxers in mind when he wrote and sang ‘There Ain’t Half Been Some Clever Bastards’.
16

A. R

5 December 2012 at 6:57 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

dianne: Actually, we’ve been switching back to IPV due to some issues with OPV.
17

jennischmidt

5 December 2012 at 7:30 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

True story from work today (I am a nurse in a small county health department): Woman calls in wanting varicella (chickenpox) vaccination for herself and her children. They were exposed via a cousin who spent all day with them earlier in the week and subsequently came down with illness. Neither she, nor any of her children have been vaccinated except for tetanus. They are part of a Christian commune of sorts in the community.

So, being all “natural” is just fine with them until they actually get exposed to the disease…

::FACEPALM::
18

Jafafa Hots

5 December 2012 at 8:49 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Vaccines interfere with the “natural” process of developing immunity by getting the disease.

And sometimes the natural process of dying from it.
19

Markita Lynda—threadrupt

5 December 2012 at 9:12 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I don’t even understand the point of that cartoon. Yes, vaccination takes you to where nobody gets the disease any more (in the case of vaccinated people for those two diseases). Isn’t that a good thing?
20

Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞

5 December 2012 at 9:17 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

@14:
I wonder if the problem is that so many people operate in
absolutes–> either vaccines work all the time, or they are useless. No nuance. No understanding that outliers exist.
21

chrismorrow

5 December 2012 at 9:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

@ Markita Lynda #19: The cartoon is entirely sarcasm/satire, making fun of people who think vaccines are evil, by playing on the paranoia about the establishment coming between themselves and their kids.

I myself was initially confused. Part of the problem is Poe’s Law: Some anti-vaxers really have gone close to making a strong “argument from nature”, that it’s inherently wrong to get rid of diseases because that’s playing God. But most of them wouldn’t go that far; they would argue that those diseases haven’t “really” gone away, or that some kind of tradeoff occurred which wasn’t worth the price (such as autism), or that that smallpox and polio vaccines aren’t a problem, just the new and “untested” ones. (See slowdjinn @ 9).
22

chrismorrow

5 December 2012 at 9:41 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Addendum: The fact that PZ made a snarky comment sort of threw me off too, because it looks like he’s snarking on the snark. In fact, he’s snarking with it.
23

Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞

5 December 2012 at 9:55 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Nope. We don’t allow the snark hat out of the Lounge. Too dangerous. Snark in the hands of PZ…I shudder to think.
24

Ihavenoidea

5 December 2012 at 10:00 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Hello,

I have a question based on the reply to this subject by commenter number 19.

How can you say that nobody gets the disease anymore?

We are talking about polio and smallpox.

How about polio?
http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/can-we-eradicate-polio-forever

As an aside, I am very surprised that Chicago based Cardinal George is not the biggest vocal supporter of vaccinations considering how polio changed his life. Well, maybe not so surprised after all. He hasn’t been interested in anything other than climbing that ladder to the top of the garbage heap.

Did that sound mean? Yes, upon reflection it did. I should have said he is in a position of power to make changes in public perception of the importance of immunizations yet decides it would not make him as likeable to Jenny McCarthy.
25

Ihavenoidea

5 December 2012 at 10:02 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Grammar problems there in that first post of mine. Very sorry.
My apologies.
26

chrismorrow

5 December 2012 at 10:25 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Ihavenoidea: Good point. It’s a bit priveliged/First-World-centric to say “nobody” gets polio anymore. Hmm.
27

JohnnieCanuck

5 December 2012 at 10:41 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I seem to recall that the reason Polio is hanging on where it is has to do with their own local version of anti-vaxer. Something about demanding political concessions before allowing their children to be protected.
28

Tony ∞2012 recipient of the coronal mass erection∞

5 December 2012 at 11:02 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

@27:
Ihavenoidea’s link indicates the reasons are varied and numerous.
29

Charlie Foxtrot

5 December 2012 at 11:07 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

One of Phil Plait’s articles from a few days ago has attracted some anti-vax attention.
There’s 2700+ comments at the moment, and we’re still batting away, so I think you can find pretty much all the usual anti-vax crapola in there somewhere.
link
30

NelC

6 December 2012 at 3:24 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I never knew Arthur C. Clarke wrote pop songs. ;)
31

vaiyt

6 December 2012 at 7:26 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I’m going to cross-post from another thread, since mine was the last post.

Yeah, polio went away because of better higiene and standards of living. And yet, in countries that had much worse standards of living (like mine), “coincidentally” polio went away when vaccination got widespread.

Our vaccination program is one of the best around, but we have no “autism epidemic” to show for it. What we also don’t have is cases of polio, rubella or mumps, even in dirt-poor or isolated communities.

I took the smallpox vaccine when I was a kid. When I look at the scar the shot left, I think of all the people that have died from that horrible disease, and how lucky I am to live in a world free from it.
32

richardelguru

6 December 2012 at 7:49 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

No one seems to have mentioned the interesting fact that the children seem to be dressed for the 1950s.

And, as a recorder player myself, I am also disturbed by the recorder-like instrument the cartoonist gave Mr Vaccine: he seems to be correctly playing top E (if that’s an alto in F) with a pinched thumb!! Surely no one who is that familiar with the instrument can be that evil!!
33

SC (Salty Current), OM

6 December 2012 at 7:59 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

And sometimes the natural process of dying from it.

I hope you didn’t think I was endorsing that view. I was adding to the list of bullshit arguments.
34

rq

6 December 2012 at 8:37 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Tony @23
Don’t you dare let the Snark Hat out of the Lounge. That thing is dangerous.
So is not vaccinating children. Who let that idea out of the box?
35

A. R

6 December 2012 at 8:45 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

rq: You can blame Andrew Wakefield for much of that nonsense.
36

vaiyt

6 December 2012 at 8:46 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

No one seems to have mentioned the interesting fact that the children seem to be dressed for the 1950s.

It’s part of the style.
37

Erülóra Maikalambe

6 December 2012 at 4:23 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

No one seems to have mentioned the interesting fact that the children seem to be dressed for the 1950s.

That may be when the artwork was drawn. That webcomic takes old public domain images and adds captions to them.
38

gravityisjustatheory

9 December 2012 at 5:44 am (UTC -5) Link to this comment

7 bobo
5 December 2012 at 3:21 pm (UTC -6) Link to this comment

I heard an idiot say that he does not trust vaccines because his children got the whooping cough shot, then got whopping cough so thus vaccines = worthless

I got whooping cough despite being vaccinated. However, thanks to the vaccine, it was a far less serious case than the unvaccinated (probably for religious reasons) classmate I caught it off got.

***

The most absurd anti-vax (well, anti modern medicen in general) argument I ever heard was from someone claiming that if traditional medicine was no good, humanity would have all died out in pre-modern times. When it was pointed out all the people (including named individuals) that are only alive today because they were saved from diseases that would have been deadly prior to modern medicine, his response was “and what benefit is that?”

I can only assume that he didn’t actually care about individual health/wellbeing at all, and thought the only thing that was important/relevant was survival of the species.