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Aug 30 2012

Someone explain this to me

That nutcase Jack Sarfatti (he’s been a plague on the internet since my usenet days) left a comment on the Scienceblogs side of things, which is very similar to a lot of my email, and I really don’t understand it.

You sound like a Nazi with The Final Solution for those you consider crazy. Shame on you – another self-hating Jewish Liberal. I don’t buy Creationist’s stuff either but I would not send them to the ovens as you clearly would do if you could with the venom in your writing.

Jack Sarfatti

He’s objecting to the fact that I pointed out there’s a concentration of stupid building up in Kentucky. I didn’t say anything about concentration camps, or ovens, or Final Solutions, unless you think Kentucky is all of those things, but that never stops run-at-the-mouth Sarfatti.

What I find weird, though, is all these people in my in-box who a) use “Jewish” as an insult, and b) think I’m Jewish. I don’t consider (a) to be true (although obviously many do) and (b) is simply incorrect, as far as I know. I can’t quite put my head in the same space as theirs, so I’m just wondering what it is about me that triggers this assumption that I fit a Jewish stereotype. My accent? My curls? That funny cap I wear? My resemblance to Tevye? A fondness for a good New York bagel?

230 comments

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  1. 1
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    It’s the wings.

  2. 2
    Ace of Sevens

    It’s the beard. You aren’t a lumberjack or philosophy professor. That leaves Jew.

  3. 3
    Margaret

    It’s the same mentality that calls Obama a Muslim. It has nothing to do with reality (which these people don’t live in) and everything to do with what they consider to be an insult.

  4. 4
    Inaji

    Definitely the New York bagel. Total giveaway, that. Mmm hmm.

  5. 5
    Glen Davidson

    The hatred for All Truth, of course.

    And you count on evidence for understanding origins? What a prevert!

    Glen Davidson

  6. 6
    Koshka

    A nazi and a jew!

  7. 7
    consciousness razor

    It’s the circumcised penis. It’s always the penis.

  8. 8
    subbie

    I’d bet it’s your shrewdness in business.

  9. 9
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    It’s kind of like when these losers email you gay porn, PZ. It’s the most offensive thing that they can think of. So, it’s either “huh huh, prof MYERS likes dicks!” Or “huh huh, prof MYERS is a Christ killer!”

    *spits*

  10. 10
    chigau (違う)

    ovens?
    venom?
    metaphor?
    mixed?

  11. 11
    Inaji

    Koshka:

    A nazi and a jew!

    Amazing, isn’t it?

  12. 12
    Larry

    Maybe its because your neck of the woods is noted for its high concentrations of Jewish people amongst the population. That could confuse anybody.

  13. 13
    Antiochus Epiphanes

    You’re clearly not into Jesus. What else could you be?

  14. 14
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    It’s the name. Jews really love to name their kids after that biblical guy who was so so so so concerned with the Problem of the Jews…

  15. 15
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    Or are zebrafish a good source of smoked fish for those NY bagels?

  16. 16
    mareeds

    Usenet days? We are in the same demographic

  17. 17
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    PZ is an intellectual and we all know that real, red blooded Murkins (read: Christians) don’t put up with none of that book learnin’ bullshit.

  18. 18
    Richard Austin

    I’ll bite.

    Meyer/Myer/Meir is a name common to Jews of Germanic origins. It’s not *exclusively* a Jewish name, but I doubt this is someone who’s ready to deal with nuance anyway.

  19. 19
    Wild old caveman, now less rancid

    I don’t know if there are or were any Jewish nazis but there are female republicans which is also something that boggles the mind and leads one to suspect that in an infinite universe anything you can imagine, and some things that you would rather not, must exist somewhere.

  20. 20
    Gregory in Seattle

    Myers can be traced back to Middle English (from the patronymic Mayers, meaning “son of the mayor”), Old French (from mire, “physician”), Old Norse (myrr, “march”) and/or Old Saxon (myers, “magistrate”.) If it was ever a Jewish surname, it was a very rare one.

  21. 21
    ChristineRose

    Some people just equate “I don’t like you” = Jewish. I knew an annoying Young Republican (not just a Republican of few years but an actual “Young Republican”) who used to do it all the time. My favorite example is the guy who declared G.W. Bush to be a crypto-Jew, basically because he was unhappy with the whole “New World Order” speech and blamed the whole imaginary conspiracy on teh Jews. A few hundred years out of date, but obviously the only explanation for G.W.

  22. 22
    Sastra

    Perhaps the wingnuts assume there are categories of liberals. Let’s simplify it for simple minds, and make it three:

    There’s the “hippie liberal;” the “Kennedy liberal;” and the “Jewish liberal.” You aren’t living in a commune and growing your own granola. You aren’t a Kennedy with a yacht and a place in Hyannisport. Thus, by process of elimination, that leaves the last type.

    Must be a large category.

  23. 23
    roguemedic

    You aren’t Christian, so you must be Muslim or Jewish. That Minnesota tan makes the first unlikely, which is incontrovertible proof that you ate Jewish.

    Bagels come out of ovens, so you obviously have to put something back to replace what came out, so you put Jews in the oven. You are clearly a Nazi.

    It is obvious to someone with the acumen of what’s his name. You should feel honored that he bothers to think about you at all, Moyshe the Fuhrer.

    .

  24. 24
    Atticus Dogsbody

    It’s because you never put down that ass’s jawbone.

  25. 25
    procyon

    Don’t you know that all professors are Jewish Marxists?

  26. 26
    insipidmoniker, 37th Emu of the Mild Dyspepsia

    I think it’s the fact that you’re a member of the ebul libral media elite that control the nation.

    P.S. If you do control the nation, you have some serious explaining to do.

  27. 27
    niftyatheist, perpetually threadrupt

    Well, it’s a well-known factoid that all intellectuals are Jewish. And liberal (because, Jewish immorality, obvs). It’s YOU!

    I don’t know if there are or were any Jewish nazis but there are female republicans which is also something that boggles the mind and leads one to suspect that in an infinite universe anything you can imagine, and some things that you would rather not, must exist somewhere.

    Wild OR caveman, there is an explanation for this. http://www.niftyatheist.com/2012/08/ann-romney-stumps-for-chic-position.html

  28. 28
    Leo Buzalsky

    Crommunist posted a video last week in which one of his guest bloggers talked about how this is language white supremacists use to denote who they consider to essentially be “race traitors,” for lack of a better term. Maybe Jack Sarfatti is a white supremacist?

  29. 29
    augustpamplona

    There’s a name I have not seen in a while!

  30. 30
    16bit heretic

    I watched one of those MSNBC prison shows once, and they featured a crazy guy in solitary who wrote all over the window of his cell door with mustard from the meals he was served mixed with his own fecal matter.

    I suppose trying to make sense of this message PZ posted is like trying to gain insight and comprehension from the crazy inmate’s scribblings on the window.

  31. 31
    interrobang

    I think I just died from irony. “Sarfatti” is pretty obviously a corruption of “Tsarfati,” the Hebrew word for “French” (as in the language and/or the people). So what the hell kind of business does a guy with the last name “Sarfatti” have using “Jew” as a pejorative?!

    Either this guy is some kind of converso who got raised extra anti-semitic because his people were covering for their Judaism, or he’s the biggest self-hater I’ve ever seen.

    I actually know an Israeli with the last name Tsarfati, even.

  32. 32
    john

    Jack Sarfatti! There’s a fellow on Usenet names Anthony Pagano who used to quote Sarfatti like he was scripture.

    If any of you want to see the old-timey and new-agey craziness and what happens when they bump uglies come join us on talk.origins on Usenet. It’s where I got most of my undergrad biology education

  33. 33
    One Thousand Needles, lumper-splitter

    I think “send them to the ovens” is just a weird way of saying that you would bake them a cake.

    And seriously, who doesn’t like cake?

  34. 34
    'Tis Himself

    While there aren’t a lot of Jews surnamed Myers or cognates of Myers, for some reason it’s considered a Jewish name in Germany.

  35. 35
    Amphiox

    I think “send them to the ovens” is just a weird way of saying that you would bake them a cake.

    The cake is a lie!

  36. 36
    Glen Davidson

    You sound like a Nazi with The Final Solution for those you consider crazy.

    Didn’t I tell you that the boncentration bamps bit could be figured out easily enough?

    Glen DAvidson

  37. 37
    bastionofsass

    You did put a nail through Jesus. And Jews are responsible for the crucifixion. So what other possible conclusion could they reach?

  38. 38
    Ysanne

    ‘Tis,
    it’s the other way round.
    The surname Meier together with its alternate spellings like Mayer, Meyer, Meyr, etc., is the second most frequent surname in Germany, and it’s not considered Jewish-sounding at all.
    However, when in the 18th century German law required Jews to take a surname, variants of Meier were popular choices due to the similarity to the Jewish given name Meir.

    PZ,

    I can’t quite put my head in the same space as theirs

    Of course not: One head is hard enough to stick into an asshole already, so yours just just wouldn’t fit.

  39. 39
    ursamajor

    Many years ago I stopped visiting areas of the Internet with lots of conservatives.
    Anytime I wrote anything they didn’t like I was promptly labeled gay, lesbian, female, black or Muslim. Sometimes the same poster would rotate through all the options over multiple postings.

    screw them

  40. 40
    'Tis Himself

    Thanks, Ysanne, for your correction and explanation.

  41. 41
    madscientist

    I can explain (a): About 1600 years ago when the earth was only 1/4 its current age, Augustine the Hippo declared that all Jews are evil because they murdered the One True Schizophrenic 3-in-1 God; since then every True Christian (for example, Mel Gibson) has been obliged to believe that being called a Jew is the gravest of insults. To this day it’s far worse for a True Christian to be called a Jew than to be called, or likened to, Adolph Hitler.

  42. 42
    Menyambal

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Sarfatti shows him with a beard at one time, so it can’t be that.

  43. 43
    mnb0

    The somewhat similar Meier is a jewish name in The Netherlands and in Germany.

    “A nazi and a jew!”
    Actually not that amazing: Erhard Milch, Stella Goldschlag and Ans van Dijk.

  44. 44
    Menyambal

    Speaking of names, “Sarfatti was born in Brooklyn, New York, to Hyman and Millie Sarfatti.” according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Sarfatti

  45. 45
    DLC

    No doubt there’s some women who show up at Tea-Party rallies too.

  46. 46
    newfie

    his wiki is chopraific

  47. 47
    kevinalexander

    It’s the tentacles. You have tentacles, jews have tentacles, QED.

  48. 48
    IslandBrewer

    Oh, because you’re related to Israel’s fourth prime minister, Golda Myers.

  49. 49
    loopyj

    Jump to 2.50: “What’s a Jew?”
    http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/469771/Love-And-Death-Movie-Clip-What-s-A-Jew-.html

    My Jewish great-grandmother’s maiden name was Meyer (or Mayer/Meir, I’m not sure of the spelling).

    It’s definitely the intellectual/scientist/beardiness that marks you as “probably-a-Jew” in the eyes of idiots who want to call you a Nazi, because being a Nazi is apparently not sufficiently bad on its own…you have to be a traitor-to-your-own-people for the Nazi epithet to really mean something to fuckwits like this.

  50. 50
    sadunlap

    It’s the beard. You aren’t a lumberjack or philosophy professor. That leaves Jew.

    Maybe. I have not been mistaken for a Jew since I shaved mine off.

    Also, in some cases, people see some sort of “Jewish” conspiracy behind whatever they’re afraid of. The world is a scary complicated place. My favorite (but tragic) incident entailed a hostage situation in which the paranoid conspiracy theorist was trying to tell the hostage negotiator about “the Mossad” (The Intelligence Service of Israel) which these kooks think is behind lots of U.S. domestic policy. Trouble is, he pronounced it “Moss” and “aid” (“moss” like the lichen, “aid” like help). The confusion of the negotiator comes through even on a written transcript. I could practically hear the bafflement in his voice when I read that he said he did not know what a “Moss aid” was.

    These people live in a sad, scary place of their own making. Ignorance kills.

  51. 51
    Gnumann+,with no bloody irony at all (just an anti-essentialist feminist with a shotgun)

    Maybe it’s an attempt at reverse-engineering of a certain jewish joke (Q: what do you call
    a Jew that does not believe in God. A: A Jew ).

  52. 52
    Lachlan

    This Jack Sarfatti guy is a theoretical physicist?

    A part of me just died.

  53. 53
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    Yoou hadn’t mentioned atheism plus, had you? That seems to do it.

  54. 54
    F [i'm not here, i'm gone]

    lol “yoou”

  55. 55
    Xanthë, Amy of my threads

    Oh my, now that name is a blast from the past!

    Lachlan @ #52:

    This Jack Sarfatti guy is a theoretical physicist?

    Yep. Goes to show, being intelligent or talented in one sphere of your life doesn’t necessarily translate to others!

    To dredge up another name from the Usenet days demonstrating this exact principle, Alexander Abian came to be better known for his Usenet ravings such as the “Time has inertia” formulae and his plan for blowing up the moon to correct the earth’s tilt, rather than the three books and two hundred odd mathematical papers he wrote during his career as a mathematician at Iowa State Uni.

  56. 56
    McC2lhu doesn't want to know what you did there.

    Systematically using Jew as an epithet…it all makes sense now. These people all have the Cartman gene. It is the one that forces people into a contest to see who can get their head the farthest into their own ass. Self-absorbed stupidity and shocking displays of outright ignorance are also signs of the Cartman gene. It’s amazing how prevalent it is in the US. Supposedly diverse yet half a population shares the gene. A real scientific conundrum.

  57. 57
    anuran

    The beard, the last name, the manly good looks and the high intelligence.

  58. 58
    shripathikamath

    Well, I suppose “shabat shalom Rabbi Myers” are in order. How’s your Yiddish these days?

  59. 59
    Albert Bakker

    To be fair to Sarfatti, it’s the self hating part. A Nazi and a self-hating Jew are considered synonyms in certain circles. Originally a Jewish person who legitimately and correctly criticized Israeli occupation politics was called a self-hating Jew by other Jews when they’d have to agree with the argument. The latter consider it a matter of loyalty that one should keep it’s mouth shut even when one feels repulsion in every fiber, so as not to give ammunition to the enemy.
    This epithet was later adopted by non-Jewish supporters of Israel who felt free to shame Jewish critics of Israeli politics with the same tactic into submission. The self-hating Jew label is apparently now evolving to lose it’s original meaning and used to scold anyone perceived to have some sort of affiliation with Jews or Jewishness and who does or says anything considered wrong. If anything in this view a self-hating Jew is consciously and with malicious intent an enabler of antisemitism, a Nazi merely an antisemite according to his or her nature. In some views all non-Jewish people are antisemites by nature, only suppressing their natural inclination by a thin veneer of civilization and perhaps a measure of political correctness.
    The same type of disloyalty is often sought and found in Liberals (mainly), who do not obey the ‘my country right or wrong’ rule with proper conviction and voice support with appropriate enthusiasm. So I guess from certain points of view it’s natural to conflate or equate the two.

  60. 60
    meursalt

    Several people have pointed out the German connection via the similar names “Meyer” and “Meier”, but I’ll go one further:

    I think we’re giving too much credit by assuming the folks calling “Jew” are thinking of any specific traditionally Jewish-German name. The US obviously has a large Jewish population, and a large percentage of them are descended from immigrants from Germany. I noticed many years ago that many Americans who are not used to dealing with people from other cultures automatically assume that German names are Jewish names. So anyone with a last name containing “-stein,” “-farb,” or possibly even “braun” is assumed to be a Jew.

    PZ, your name “sounds German,” regardless of its actual origins, therefore it also “sounds Jewish” to many Americans.

  61. 61
    oolon

    He is probably riffing on a popular meme about FtBs at the moment – apparently you are all using Nazi language in your promotion of Atheism+. Like this comment from a fluent German speaker apparently…

    You should also pay attention to the disgusting Nazi terminology they are using, while trying to create the impression that “their struggle’s” enemies are sub-humans. It’s like a bad impersonation of Nazi propaganda. I doubt they are intelligent enough to realize what they are doing, which makes it twice as dangerous for the movement.

    More bollocks about ‘the movement’ and how FtBs are so big and evil and powerful and unless they stop them it will be destroyed. Usually when they say FtBs they mean PZ and the feminists… Although Richard Carriers atheism+ article was so Nazi-like they include him too now.

  62. 62
    birgerjohansson

    Irish/Norse ancestors with some DNA from the Deep Ones…what’s not to like? The Scarfacci fellow is just jealous.

  63. 63
    Gordon

    They don’t understand that when we say something like “I wish there were no religious people” we mean “It would be great if everyone naturally abandoned their religion”. They hear “let’s kill everyone”

    It says a lot about how they think.

  64. 64
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @48. IslandBrewer :

    Oh, because you’re related to Israel’s fourth prime minister, Golda Myers.

    Y’all probably know this already but that’s actually spelt Golda Meir oen of the first powerful female national leaders in the Western world :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golda_Meir

    One of the first and greatest of Israel’s leaders.

  65. 65
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ 39. ursamajor :

    Many years ago I stopped visiting areas of the Internet with lots of conservatives.
    Anytime I wrote anything they didn’t like I was promptly labeled gay, lesbian, female, black or Muslim. Sometimes the same poster would rotate through all the options over multiple postings. screw them

    Hang on a second, *Jewish* ain’t on that there list!

    How could they? I though teh Jooozz rule dthe world and controlled everything or is that just Noam Chomsky’s opinion?

    Funny how Christians forget that Jesus himself and all his family and early disciples were Jewish too – and that among Rabbi Jesus’s last words included to call to forgive the people crusifying him not hunt down and persecute their descendents forever afterwards.

  66. 66
    richardh

    Come on, guys. Anyone who thinks this is about PZ is approaching it from entirely the wrong end. This is all about Jack Sarfatti, who’s been around so long he’s an official net.legend (scroll down about 2/3 of the way to find his entry) from the glory days of Usenet, though even then he was treating it as a write-only medium:

    A story *was* going around at least one physics dept. (which is probably at least as false as any of these entries; Jack himself denies it utterly – but you know how urban legends grow) that Jack used to tell people Murray Gell-Mann found his ideas interesting, and that someone finally checked with Gell-Mann – and found the complete quote was “Your ideas are interesting, but [looking at watch] I’m late for an appointment.”

    And no, he’s not a theoretical physicist, he’s a post-quantum physicist (hint: one of these two is evidence-based). To a physicist, Jack’s website is just hours of deepity fun on a boring Friday afternoon, though for some reason it’s not open for comments.


    When Jack Sarfatti was 13 years old
    , he began receiving phone calls from a strange metallic voice that told him he would someday become part of an elite group of scientists exploring uncharted territory. Those calls, which he believes may have come from a computer on a spacecraft, proved a seminal influence on his life and led him to pursue a career that combined mainstream physics with an enduring interest in UFOs and the far-out reaches of science.

  67. 67
    opie

    It’s your horns.

    http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/662,2068869/Did-Moses-have-horns.html

    (I’ve had multiple Jewish friends disgustingly subject to inspection by curious Christians.)

  68. 68
    David Marjanović

    Definitely the New York bagel. Total giveaway, that. Mmm hmm.

    Einstein Brothers! :-9

    (Thanks again to The Other Mr. Mattir.)

    It’s the name. Jews really love to name their kids after that biblical guy who was so so so so concerned with the Problem of the Jews…

    To be fair, few people know what PZ stands for. You’re leaving them wondering about the Vowelless Apostle Pz.

    Well, it’s a well-known factoid that all intellectuals are Jewish. And liberal (because, Jewish immorality, obvs). It’s YOU!

    CAPTAIN: IT’S YOU !!
    CATS: HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN !!
    CATS: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.
    CATS: YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION.

    Actually not that amazing: Erhard Milch, Stella Goldschlag and Ans van Dijk.

    Milch: “Aryan” mother married to “Jewish” husband; Milch always claimed his mother conceived him in adultery…
    Goldschlag and van Dijk: …I wish I hadn’t looked them up.

    “moss” like the lichen

    Moss and lichens are very different things. Mosses are plants, lichens are fungi with a few cyanobacterial and/or green algal cells strewn through them.

    shabat shalom

    Half a day too early.

    And no, he’s not a theoretical physicist, he’s a post-quantum physicist (hint: one of these two is evidence-based).

    :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

    Computer with a metallic voice! How cute! How 1960s TV! It is to laugh.

  69. 69
    blf

    with some DNA from the Deep Ones

    The Deep Ones don’t bother with DNA. You either are, or else you’re less useful than slime in supernova.

  70. 70
    Louis

    John, #32,

    Pagano? Oh fuck I just had a Talk Origins flashback…thanks for that! I was already tripping back because of PZ mentioning Starfartti (not a typo), but Pagano….{shudder}.

    Hours. HOURS of effort trying to drum one iota of sense through that fucking iron girder thick skull, holy suffering fuckballs of the infinite procrastinator that’s a painful memory.

    Louis

  71. 71
    Nick Gotts

    A real-life case of a Jewish neo-Nazi from Hungary. I believe he’s still hating on Roma. I recall a similar case in Poland not so long ago – in that case, a neo-Nazi skinhead who is now an orthodox Jew after discovering his ancestry. In much of eastern Europe, there was little if any reaction against antisemitism following WWII (Stalin was almost as antisemitic as Hitler), and both the Catholic and Orthodox churches there, as well as society more generally, remain permeated by antisemitism of Nazi-like virulence. Understandably, many surviving Jews who could conceal their origins did so.

  72. 72
    Nick Gotts

    I though teh Jooozz rule dthe world and controlled everything or is that just Noam Chomsky’s opinion? – StevoR

    Give me just one quote from Chomsky stating that as his opinion.

  73. 73
    John Pieret

    @ 32 John:

    There’s a fellow on Usenet names Anthony Pagano who used to quote Sarfatti like he was scripture.

    Oh, please don’t mention Tony’s name … he might show up to everyone’s regret. It’s almost as bad as mentioning P*t*r N**k*s!

  74. 74
    pipenta

    I get it all the time too. Mostly when I am down south or when I was living out west. People assume I am Jewish and that I am from New York. I did grow up in a Jewish neighborhood, so it is possible that I’ve picked up some speech patterns. I don’t know, but that’s my best guess.

    *shrugs*

    Just by itself, being taken for a Jew, is amusing and not an insult. It is a culture that values intellect and a certain skill with language. But I’ve never had the misidentification bundled with the rest of that horrid hateful claptrap.

    If you are going to be mistaken for Jewish, you might as well invoke the power. So I offer up this handy dandy curse generator:

    http://www.yiddishcursesforrepublicanjews.com/#

    Hard to choose a favorite, but currently I fancy this one:

    “May your accountant be as honest as Paul Ryan, and may your children be as compassionate towards the elderly and infirm.”

  75. 75
    johnwolforth

    You know what a bagel is. That’s all a lot of people need to stereotype you.

  76. 76
    Cas

    Random fact: the bagel actually originates from Poland and was brought to New York by Jewish immigrants. Things I learn from baking shows :-D

  77. 77
    Forbidden Snowflake

    Pipenta:
    I especially liked “May your grandchildren baptize you after you’re dead”.

  78. 78
    richardh

    Computer with a metallic voice! How cute! How 1960s TV! It is to laugh.

    http://www.youtube.com/v/HsENXeNA3lw

  79. 79
    Lars

    A nazi and a jew!

    Do you know who else was a nazi and a jew? Yea, that’s who.

  80. 80
    chemicalscum

    Everyone seems to have missed the point. They make the same mistake as Sarfatti by confusing the ethnic origin of the name. Sarfatti is not an Italian name it is a Sephardic Jewish name.

    That Sarfatti is a Jewish zionist can be seen by the the standard hasbara insult to PZ calling him a “self hating jew”. This is a coded insult by zionists for any anti-zionist of Jewish origins.

    Sarfatti’s stuff on the web is often an interesting fun read, but don’t read too much of it if you want to remain sane. He was important back in the seventies with the Fundamental Fysiks Group in raising the question of the fundamental interpretation of QM. However in these days with decoherence theory, physics has moved on and even amongst supportes of the DeBroglie-Bohm theory he is something of a persona non grata because of all the quantum woo he peddles. Anyway Everett rules :)

  81. 81
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    Jack Sarfatti! There’s a fellow on Usenet names Anthony Pagano who used to quote Sarfatti like he was scripture.

    Sarfatti or Sarfati? Pagano is a YEC so quoting Sarfati makes more sense to me. Sarfati is a creationist from New Zealand.

    New Zealand has produced better things more recently.

  82. 82
    flherp

    http://tinyurl.com/KYisastate
    This is the best explanation I have found for the situation in KY.

  83. 83
    jacksarfatti

    Memorandum for the Record

    Be advised Myers that your mean-spiritied nasty remarks border on libel. You are not a qualified psychiatrist and if you are an academic your blog activity with vicious personal attacks on people you don’t know is moral turpitude. I don’t recall you on usenet. You and your trolls seem to have confused me with Jonathan Sarfatti from New Zealand. I am not that person! “Myers” is either a Jewish or a German name. If the latter, that perhaps explains your Nazi-like preference to round up people who you consider “nut cases”. ;-) BTW I am Jewish myself, though not practicing.

    Make sure you get the right Sarfatti. I am this one

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Sarfatti

    I never met Jonathan in New Zealand.

  84. 84
    consciousness razor

    Oh, that Jack Sarfatti. Of course.

    So, PZ, I think the explanation is that people in the future could use their mind-woo to cause you to be a self-hating Jewish Liberal right now. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

  85. 85
    jacksarfatti

    That was fast. So like a Liberal with a Mental Disorder. ;-)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_Is_a_Mental_Disorder

  86. 86
    consciousness razor

    Michael Savage is an asshole.

    And you shouldn’t insult people with mental disorders, asshole.

  87. 87
    chigau (違う)

    Can you get Geller to stop bending my spoons?

  88. 88
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    So, jacksarfatti, it is not you who sent the email but you are more than willing to agree with what the email stated to the point of using the same language. Got it.

  89. 89
    jacksarfatti

    And you sir are a mental midget who is not even able to write a well wrought insult. When your vocabulary exceeds fifty words let me know. I am always suspicious of cowards like you who hide their true identity. In your case, your obvious lack of self-esteem is completely justified.

  90. 90
    consciousness razor

    My spoons are also bent. It makes cereal-eating more difficult than it really ought to be. Maybe he could just tone his powers down a little bit.

  91. 91
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    First, I wasn’t trying for an insult, just making an observation. Second, my vocabulary vastly exceeds fifty words and, if that was an attempted insult, it is eminently laughable. Third, pseudonymity is not cowardice. Should you want to contact me and find out who I am, I have provided contact information more than once. Fourth, yes, my lack of self esteem is not only justified it is well earned. What is your point? Are you trying to convince us that you really are the author of that email?

  92. 92
    Tethys

    Since the trolling Sarfatti claims to be different than the letter sender, and seems so fond of citing wikipedia as a reliable source, I read the entry on the name Sarfatti.

    If you scroll down to the people section and click on the name Jack Sarfatti (1939) usenet legend, it goes to the same page as the trolling Sarfatti. :D
    —–

    So Jack, still putting all that education to good use huh?

    Is your associate still in jail for murdering his girlfriend?

  93. 93
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    Was that a general invitation for well-wrought insults? I’ve got a fence’s worth of the things on the fire and would gladly supply you with some, if that is your desire.

  94. 94
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Was that a general invitation for well-wrought insults?

    Probably not. He probably saw my ‘nym and assumed that kicking someone when he is down is safer than kicking people who are not depressed, exhausted, suffering panic attacks, and dealing with some new memories. Not his fault, of course. I’m now real specific as to why I’m broken.

  95. 95
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    And that should be “I’m not real specific as to why I’m broken.”

  96. 96
    Stevarious, Public Health Problem

    He probably saw my ‘nym and assumed that kicking someone when he is down is safer

    Ah, so he’s a troll who can’t take what he dishes out. Perfectly understandable – it seems a common theme among pseudo-intellectuals.

  97. 97
    jacksarfatti

    Ira Einhorn was never a close associate. Einhorn was actually close friends with physicists Nick Herbert and the late Heinz Pagels. Yes Ira is still in prison. Guilt by association does not apply to murder. Your smears and hiding behind phony names is the mark of a coward. My photo and mention of me can be found in the New York Times Book Review, the Wall Street Journal, Scientific American, Nature, American Scientist to name a few. MIT Physics Professor Historian David Kaiser credits me and my crew in the 1970′s for bringing modern quantum information theory into being. When you gutter snipes achieve recognition in major media let me know. Till then crawl back under your rocks.

  98. 98
    Nick Gotts

    jacksarfatti,

    You’re still a risible crank, who makes ludicrous and vile comparisons between deriding creationists, and the Shoah.

  99. 99
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Well, somebody’s angry!

  100. 100
    chigau (違う)

    [meta]
    Don’t ever let anyone try to convince you that dropping a lot of acid does no harm to cognitive ability.

  101. 101
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    As far as I can tell, only one person (@32) has you possibly confused with anybody else. Everyone else has you pegged correctly.

  102. 102
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Chigau:
    *snortle!*

  103. 103
    Nick Gotts

    “Myers” is either a Jewish or a German name. – jacksarfatti

    You’re also a complete ignoramus with regard to the origin of names – but evidently you make it a principle not to let ignorance keep you from shooting your mouth. My maternal grandmother was called Myers, and was neither German nor Jewish. Here’s what wikipedia has to say:

    Myers is an English origin and German origin surname. The English surname is an early medieval patronymic meaning “son of Mayer”, an occupational name for a mayor. The English surname may also have evolved from “physician” (“mire”, Old French), or “marsh” (“myrr”, Old Norse). The first English public record of the surname was in 1212. The German surname means “steward”/”bailiff”, referring to the town magistrate.

  104. 104
    madscientist

    To those wondering about Meier/Myer/Meyer – the US immigration agents of 80 years ago and earlier committed many atrocities with their pens as they registered the names of migrants, especially names of migrants who did not speak english. Even many German immigrants have had their names mangled almost beyond recognition – and back then the name the immigration agent gave you was the name you were stuck with.

  105. 105
    Nick Gotts

    Do you know who else was a nazi and a jew? Yea, that’s who. – Lars

    If you mean Hitler, no, he wasn’t a Jew.

  106. 106
    olivercrangle

    You sound like a Nazi with The Final Solution for those you consider crazy. Shame on you – another self-hating Jewish Liberal. I don’t buy Creationist’s stuff either but I would not send them to the ovens as you clearly would do if you could with the venom in your writing.

    Jack Sarfatti

    Professor Myers,

    Looking at the wiki, and guessing by the names of his parents, Sarfatti is Jewish. I am Jewish. I have never thought you were Jewish, but from his note, he does seem to believe you are Jewish (mistakenly).

    Regardless, and taken from that context, I see no reason to believe Sarfatti believes calling someone Jewish is an insult.

    Calling you a self-hating Jew is not insulting you for being Jewish, it is insulting you, if you were Jewish, for loathing yourself.

    Self-hating is a “real” concept, and you can easily google and find self-hating blacks, self-hating women, and self-hating Jews.

    Google auto complete of “Larry David self” suggests …

    Some total jackass in your comments, billgunn, associates “self-hating Jew” with Israeli propaganda, well, sadly, this shows there are tons of idiots in your followers as stupid, foolish, and manipulative as any Creationist.

    (If your name was Meyers, I may have thought you were Jewish (why? I dunno.), and I do frequently misspell your name.)

  107. 107
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    “Myers” is either a Jewish or a German name. If the latter, that perhaps explains your Nazi-like preference to round up people who you consider “nut cases”. ;-) BTW I am Jewish myself, though not practicing.

    Nice smear on all Germans– I didn’t realize that Germany was still a fascist state! Or that Americans of German descent were totalitarians. The shit one can learn from idiots on the internet, I tell ya.

  108. 108
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    Some total jackass in your comments, billgunn, associates “self-hating Jew” with Israeli propaganda, well, sadly, this shows there are tons of idiots in your followers as stupid, foolish, and manipulative as any Creationist.

    How can one comment from one ‘total jackass’ show anything of the sort?

  109. 109
    olivercrangle

    How can one comment from one ‘total jackass’ show anything of the sort?

    1. Existence proof
    2. Extrapolation.

  110. 110
    olivercrangle

    “How can one comment from one ‘total jackass’ show anything of the sort?”

    If you find one cockroach….

  111. 111
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    2. Extrapolation.

    *snortle!*

  112. 112
    jacksarfatti

    The new Federal Laws on cyber-bulling. In a nutshell – pun intended – anyone publishing annoying statements to the “victim” – in this case me – under a false ID is guilty of a criminal act – not protected speech under the First Amendment. You are protected f you use your real ID and send annoying messages via the internet. What is “annoying” is determined by the “victim”. The internet laws are tightening up and all of you trolls should familiarize yourselves with them to avoid future legal problems. Have a nice day under your rocks. Stay out of the Sun. This is my last message to you inarticulate creeps. You are a waste of my time. Best wishes.

  113. 113
    Nick Gotts

    Since the trolling Sarfatti claims to be different than the letter sender – Tethys

    I see no such claim on Sarfatti’s part. He appears to be falsely claiming that PZ has confused him with a creationist from New Zealand, by the name of Sarfati, but only one person (john@32) appears to have done that. A couple of others have mentioned Pagano, whom john mentioned, but no Sarfatti/Sarfati confusion was evident in their posts.

  114. 114
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    If you find one cockroach…

    Now there’s a completely inappropriate metaphor, given the context…

  115. 115
    olivercrangle

    How can one comment from one ‘total jackass’ show anything of the sort?

    Probabilistic proof:

    Among PZ’s thousands, tens of thousands, more, followers, what are the chances I observed the one Higgs Boson on one visit here? Compare that to the possibility this Higgs Boson isn’t a Higgs Boson but merely a positron?

    Don’t worry, I am not saying most of PZ’s followers are total jackasses, I am only observing it is certain a significant number are.

  116. 116
    Nick Gotts

    The new Federal Laws on cyber-bulling. – kacksarfatti

    (The “k” for “j” was unintentional, but seems appropriate.)

    Believe it or not, fuckwit, some of us are not American, and US law does not yet apply to the whole world, even if you interpret it correctly, which I’m sure you don’t.

  117. 117
    olivercrangle

    The new Federal Laws on cyber-bulling. In a nutshell – pun intended – anyone publishing annoying statements to the “victim” – in this case me – under a false ID is guilty of a criminal act – not protected speech under the First Amendment. You are protected f you use your real ID and send annoying messages via the internet. What is “annoying” is determined by the “victim”. The internet laws are tightening up and all of you trolls should familiarize yourselves with them to avoid future legal problems. Have a nice day under your rocks. Stay out of the Sun. This is my last message to you inarticulate creeps. You are a waste of my time. Best wishes.

    Best wishes to you Professor Sarfatti, but, … that’s a horrible law and all people should stand together and fight against it, not lean on during an Internet Drama.

  118. 118
    olivercrangle

    BTW, from the science blog site:

    . AiG has nothing to do with it, though — I wonder if they’d resent someone tapping into their pool of suckers? Or if they’d see it as an addition to their vortex of stupid? It depends on Hurlbut’s ideological purity, I suppose.

    Oh hell no, it’s actually a terrific idea from AIG’s perspective, think SoCal all week passes to both Disneyland and Sea World and Universal Studios.

    It takes there herp and adds some derp to it, so you have a much better reason to stick your kids in the van and visit.

  119. 119
    Nick Gotts

    Some total jackass in your comments, billgunn, associates “self-hating Jew” with Israeli propaganda, well, sadly, this shows there are tons of idiots in your followers as stupid, foolish, and manipulative as any Creationist. – olivercrangle

    No, just that there are people posting on this blog who can observe obvious facts. While there are indeed self-hating Jews, the accusation of being one is flung at any Jewish critic of Israel, and indeed, as Jack Sarfatti shows, at any supposed Jew with liberal or left views, even if they are not actually Jewish and say little if anything about Israel.

  120. 120
    olivercrangle

    No, just that there are people posting on this blog who can observe obvious facts. While there are indeed self-hating Jews, the accusation of being one is flung at any Jewish critic of Israel, and indeed, as Jack Sarfatti shows, at any supposed Jew with liberal or left views, even if they are not actually Jewish and say little if anything about Israel.

    Yeah, you fail probability and statistical analysis….

  121. 121
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    [OT]

    The new Federal Laws on cyber-bulling. In a nutshell – pun intended – anyone publishing annoying statements to the “victim” – in this case me – under a false ID is guilty of a criminal act – not protected speech under the First Amendment.

    The fortunate thing is that the passers of federal laws don’t have the authority to decide what is and isn’t protected speech under the first amendment. Which is pretty much the point of said amendment.

  122. 122
    olivercrangle

    Yeah, you fail probability, statistical analysis, experimental design, data analysis….

    But anyway, now we have two.

    QED.

  123. 123
    chigau (違う)

    I wonder if he was as good a physicist as he is an InternetLawyer™.

  124. 124
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    In a nutshell – pun intended – anyone publishing annoying statements to the “victim” – in this case me – under a false ID is guilty of a criminal act – not protected speech under the First Amendment.

    How in the high holy hell is that a pun. A play on what words?

    Also, there aren’t any federal laws on cyber bullying, but a patchwork of state laws. None of which prohibit one from being annoying; like most anti-harassment laws, the bullying behavior has to cause harm.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking_legislation#Legislation_at_the_federal_level

  125. 125
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    Yeah, you fail probability and statistical analysis….

    followed by…

    Yeah, you fail probability, statistical analysis, experimental design, data analysis….

    You seem to have trouble with this commenting thing. And opinions offered without evidence, well…

  126. 126
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Also Jack– I know this might be tough to comprehend because you’re apparently not the most thoughtful person, but please bear with me– quoting someone with proper attribution is hardly bullying or harassment.

  127. 127
    olivercrangle

    “You seem to have trouble with this commenting thing. And opinions offered without evidence, well…”

    What’s the opinion offered without evidence? KG’s analysis is just wrong. Billgunn says “self-loathing” implies hasbara, KG conflates that with “thrown at any liberal Jew” or “Jewish critic of Israel” and KG leaves out the sampling of “self-loathing” that is used without reference to Israel.

    This is simple stuff, and I would hope anyone following a biologist would be able to discuss this in their sleep.

    3, so thank you.

  128. 128
    chigau (違う)

    PZ’s “followers” are elementary particles?
    Jackasses are elementary particles?
    The boson in “Higgs boson” is capitalized?

  129. 129
    olivercrangle

    It’s like you couldn’t even bother to wikipedia the concept.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hating_Jew

    Lazy, d00d, just lazy.

  130. 130
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Well, you’ve got to be self hating, being a Sarah Palin fan and all. What Jewish person in their right mind would support that theocracy lovin’ asshole?

  131. 131
    Tethys

    Jack the flouncer seems confused about the difference between being mocked and libel.

    I guess you’re either on the bus, or off the bus.

  132. 132
    Nick Gotts

    olivercrangle,

    You have not provided any support whatsoever for your position, so your swanking about probability, statistics and experimental design are worthless. Support for my position, OTOH, is easily found simply by googling “self-hating Jew Israeli government”. Usually, of course, the attacks on Jewish critics of Israeli actions are not made directly by Israeli government officials, but in some cases they are. Here’s an example: according to a Haaretz writer, Barak Ravid, Netanyahu regularly calls Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod “self-hating Jews” for supporting Obama’s call for a settlement freeze. Another: Judge Richard Goldstone was called an “anti-semite” by Yuval Steinitz, the Israeli finance minister for his report on Gaza. Since Goldstone is Jewish, this is automatically an accusation that he is a self-hating Jew.

  133. 133
    chigau (違う)

    olivercrangle
    Since you are new to the Internets, I warn you, more than 10 posts on a single Thread makes you a “follower”.
    Right, my fellow sockpuppets?

  134. 134
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Chigau,
    Of course, we are Legion.

  135. 135
    olivercrangle

    KG, thank you for confirming that yeah, you fail probability, statistical analysis, experimental design, data analysis…

    And are still unable to click on a link.

  136. 136
    Nick Gotts

    olivercrangle,

    You’re a dishonest little shit. I specifically said “there are self-hating Jews”. I specifically did not say all such accusations are false. But as billgunn says, such accusations most certainly are associated with Israeli government propaganda, in that members of the Israeli government make them. Sarfatti’s own piece of idiocy shows that they are also flung, as I said, at “any supposed Jew with liberal or left views, even if they are not actually Jewish and say little if anything about Israel”. What clearer example could you have than Jack Sarfatti calling PZ Myers a self-hating Jew, when he’s not a Jew, but is a liberal, who however rarely comments on Israel (when he does, it’s always, as far as I recall, in response to religiously-inspired antics of the ultra-orthodox)?

  137. 137
    chigau (違う)

    oops
    too late
    mwahahaha

  138. 138
    Nick Gotts

    Here, olivercrangle the dishonest little shit, is a sentence from your own link:

    The term has a long history in debates over the role of Israel in Jewish identity, where it is used against Jewish critics of Israeli government policy.

  139. 139
    olivercrangle

    KG,

    The phrase long predates Israel, and if you had either any amount of self-awareness or intellectual honesty, you would note that the vast majority of that article has nothing to do with Israeli propaganda and goes into its long existence prior to the 20th century.

    Are we to supposed self-hating women is, at its essence, different from self-hating Jew? Self-hating black? These two can exist, but self-hating Jew IS ABOUT ISRAEL.

    What happens when you google self-hating Jew circumcision? Or self-hating Jew reform? Or self-hating Jew intermarriage?

    According to you and billgunn none of that existed until HASBARA.

    Look KG, you seem like a nice guy, but you aren’t. You’re a total jackass and kind of stupid as well. And intellectually dishonest, near as I can tell.

    Just swing with it man! Relax! Revel in your douchebaggery.

  140. 140
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    Right, my fellow sockpuppets?

    Of course, the sockpuppet angle blows olivercrangle’s “probability, statistical analysis, experimental design, [and] data analysis” out of the water.

  141. 141
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    According to you and billgunn none of that existed until HASBARA.

    Or you have reading comprehension problems.

  142. 142
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Revel in your douchebaggery.

    Sounds like what you are doing olivercrangle….

  143. 143
    Tethys

    Urban dictionary has an interesting (for certain values of interesting) definition for the word crangle.

  144. 144
    Old At Heart

    Awww, I missed the Internet Lawyer Weird Physics Guy. But I feel like saying this anyways, because I’m mean: As someone NOT bound by USA law, thank the stars and Jean Cretien, I will say that you are ignorant of facts outside your sphere of education, and that conclusive proof of knowledge inside your sphere of education has not be provided to me. In short, there is a lack of evidence you are anything more intelligent than a spam-bot. This is not libel nor slander, as it is true to my perceptions.

    Also, I’m actually, like many people on this board, a sockpuppet of Myers’ account. I like to talk to myself frequently. Drums up google traffic.

  145. 145
    Nick Gotts

    These two can exist, but self-hating Jew IS ABOUT ISRAEL.

    What happens when you google self-hating Jew circumcision? Or self-hating Jew reform? Or self-hating Jew intermarriage?

    According to you and billgunn none of that existed until HASBARA.

    Look KG, you seem like a nice guy, but you aren’t. You’re a total jackass and kind of stupid as well. And intellectually dishonest, near as I can tell. – Olivercrangle

    As I think I already remarked, you’re a fucking idiot. I might have been wrong about you being a dishonest little shit – your astounding stupidity combined with a large dose of unjustified confidence in your own abilities may be sufficient explanation for your absurd claims. However, that’s a side issue. Billgunn said that accusations of being a “self-hating Jew” are associated with Israeli government propaganda. As I showed – and as anyone can confirm by googling “self-hating Jew”, they are. “Associated with” does not mean “associated only with” or “originated with”. Let’s try an analogy, to see if you can actually get something through the concrete. Accusations of conspiracies among scientists to conceal or misinterpret data are associated with global warming denialists – see “climategate” etc.. Does that mean that such accusations are associated only with global warming denialists, or originated with them? I’m sure you’ll have trouble with this tricky question, so I’ll give you a hint as to the answer:

    No.

    Anti-vaxxers make such accusations about vaccine scientists. Practically every crank whose nonsense has been rejected by all the respectable journals makes them about the “scientific establishment”. Creationists have been making such accusations about evolutionary biologists, geologists, etc. for a century and a half.

  146. 146
    John Pieret

    Re: jacksarfatti @ 83

    Be advised Myers that your mean-spiritied nasty remarks border on libel.

    I AM a lawyer and nothing that PZ wrote came even within spitting distance of libel. He has not confused you with anyone. He clearly identified what he was talking about and his opinion that you are a nutcase and a plague on the internet (whether or not you remember him from usenet) is clearly protected speech.

    Re: jacksarfatti @ 122

    In a nutshell – pun intended – anyone publishing annoying statements to the “victim” – in this case me – under a false ID is guilty of a criminal act – not protected speech under the First Amendment. … What is “annoying” is determined by the “victim”.

    Wrong again! At a minimum, it would have to be determined that the “perpetrators” intended to harm you by a jury of rational people (which we can laughingly call your “peers”). Cyberstalking laws have yet to be determined to be constitutional. In the case of children, they may be, since we give children higher standards of protection than we do adults. In the case of a 72 year old supposed “physicist” whining about the other kids being mean to him, I am confident that the courts will find that amusingly bizarre, right along with the rest of your opinions.

  147. 147
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Maybe someone with a stronger stats background that I have can answer this question, but how can you perform a “meta analysis” based on one post?

  148. 148
    Rolan le Gargéac

    They once read an Ed McBain novel and all they remember is “Meyer, Meyer ! Jew on Fire !”

    No, wait, they once heard of someone who’d read an 87th novel and all he remembered was “Myers, Myers ! Squids on Fires !”

  149. 149
    mikmik

    “Right, my fellow sockpuppets?”

    Yes master. BTW, could you call us ‘stockingpuppets’? It sounds more ominous.

  150. 150
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Don’t worry, I am not saying most of PZ’s followers are total jackasses, I am only observing it is certain a significant number are.

    Care to cite your examples, in context, to show that ‘a significant number’ of the regular commenters here are ‘total jackasses’? or are you just trying to smear with a broad, though innacurate, brush?

    By the by, what about those of us (at least one) who are self-hating atheists? Who’s propaganda am I swallowing for that to be an accurate description?

    . . . how can you perform a “meta analysis” based on one post?

    Well, if one utilizes the proper tools (colon, anus), it works.

    For a certain definition of ‘works’, that is.

  151. 151
    David Marjanović

    http://www.yiddishcursesforrepublicanjews.com/#

    Hard to choose a favorite, but currently I fancy this one:

    “May your accountant be as honest as Paul Ryan, and may your children be as compassionate towards the elderly and infirm.”

    So… full… of… win…

    I especially liked “May your grandchildren baptize you after you’re dead”.

    Ooh, burn. :-D

    http://www.youtube.com/v/HsENXeNA3lw

    LOL! I didn’t understand most of it (stupid singer who tries to sing exactly when the instruments are the loudest), but what I understood makes you win this thread!

    When you gutter snipes achieve recognition in major media let me know. Till then crawl back under your rocks.

    That’s the silliest argument from authority I’ve read in several months.

    BTW, I’m too lazy and careless to think up a pseudonym. So, if you really care about such things, you can find me in Google Scholar.

  152. 152
    birgerjohansson

    -Can I be a tentaclepuppet?
    BTW Irish will be interested to know they are actually Jewish. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

  153. 153
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Oggie,
    Ah yes, the anus meta analysis*. I should have thought of that. Now if we could just clear up 1) how billgunn was being a “total jackass” (clumsy, maybe. But jackass?) and 2) how one comment from one non-regular poster can possibly mean anything other than what they said.

    *Anal is right in the word, tee hee!

  154. 154
    olivercrangle

    No KG, you’re either a dumbass or a liar.

    This is precisely what billgunn said:

    That Sarfatti is a Jewish zionist can be seen by the the standard hasbara insult to PZ calling him a “self hating jew”. This is a coded insult by zionists for any anti-zionist of Jewish origins.

    This is not “associated with”.

    This is “Sarfatti IS a Jewish zionist” BECAUSE.

    Eat shit and die KG, you’re too stupid or dishonest to just admit what a slimy little shitbag you are.

  155. 155
    olivercrangle

    Care to cite your examples, in context, to show that ‘a significant number’ of the regular commenters here are ‘total jackasses’? or are you just trying to smear with a broad, though innacurate, brush?

    I explained to you my various methodologies and logic, go back up post and see.

    And then I counted some out for you.

    By the by, what about those of us (at least one) who are self-hating atheists? Who’s propaganda am I swallowing for that to be an accurate description?

    I dunno, I showed you that there are descriptions of self loathing women, self loathing blacks, and self loathing Jews. Clearly we’ve all heard of self loathing gays. Here is the wiki for self hatred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-hatred

    So I’ll let you read that and generalize for us about self hating atheists — I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    All of this supports my position re: billgunn and KG that it is illogical and a smear to claim that self loathing Jew must be associated with Israel or anti-Israeli speech.

    That so many people are clearly misinterpreting my comment and refusing to acknowledge this supports my contention that a significant number of PZ commenters are total jackasses.

    Again, this is not to say that most or even many are.

    And it’s right in line with Sturgeon’s law isn’t it?

    What’s so offensive about acknowledging the truth of any Internet forum — most people in them are dumbasses of one sort or another?

    (KG does seem to be the dumbest one in here in this thread in my observation of the past 18 hours or so. I mean, that guy is village idiot drool bucket filling stupid.)

  156. 156
    anteprepro

    olivercrangle: In what world does that actually address what KG said? Can you actually read? Or is rage-posting just so addicting that you can’t actually be coaxed into saying anything coherent?

  157. 157
    anteprepro

    All of this supports my position re: billgunn and KG that it is illogical and a smear to claim that self loathing Jew must be associated with Israel or anti-Israeli speech.

    Yeah, it is a “smear” to question the intentions of people who indiscriminately label others “self-hating Jews”. Riiight.

    Is it opposite day today?

  158. 158
    olivercrangle

    rage-posting ??

    Look how KG has addressed me the entire time before you point fingers of rage posting.

    Then read what billgunn wrote, and how KG has either misinterpreted it, or just apologizes for it.

    What KG writes has clearly no basis in reality to what billgunn wrote. And what KG writes has no basis in logic either.

    I don’t get it, I’m new here, is KG like the site’s favorite puppy dog?

  159. 159
    olivercrangle

    “Yeah, it is a “smear” to question the intentions of people who indiscriminately label others “self-hating Jews”. Riiight.

    Is it opposite day today?”

    Dunno, can you read the thread before posting? Read what Sarfatti said. Read what I wrote. Read what billgunn wrote. Have someone read it aloud for you if necessary.

  160. 160
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Yawn, ignorant and illiterate troll is WRONG. Nothing but attitude. What else is new.

  161. 161
    anteprepro

    Look how KG has addressed me the entire time before you point fingers of rage posting.

    BAAAAAAAW.

    The point was that your level of invective is entirely disproportionate to your level of making coherent arguments. You are not as logical as you think you are. You are nowhere near as articulate as you think you are. Your entire back-and-forth here has been an exercise in you missing the point by inches and getting progressively more pissed off as you continue to miss the point by even more.

    As for reading the thread: You’ve done nothing in this thread except whine and cry and spew and spittlefleck about how “self-hating Jew” is not solely used to describe anti-zionist Jews. And then, from there, you use your keen analytic abilities to deny that “self-hating Jew” is a label that is often used to describe anti-zionist Jews. Amazingly, the former is right and the latter is wrong! And also amazingly, KG explicitly stated that he agrees with you on the first but not on the second! But you don’t care, because you are going to continue to conflate “associated with” and “always refers to”. And you’re going to continue to selectively ignore criticism in order to pretend that you aren’t a fucking moron. So, good luck with all that.

  162. 162
    olivercrangle

    Oh please, KG has been name calling throughout this entire thread.

    I was entirely polite to your little poodle until he went off with this: “You’re a dishonest little shit.”

  163. 163
    olivercrangle

    “And then, from there, you use your keen analytic abilities to deny that “self-hating Jew” is a label that is often used to describe anti-zionist Jews”

    By the way, you can’t read either.

  164. 164
    anteprepro

    Yes, politeness was my main concern. Keen analytic abilities at work again.

    I think I will look for someone else’s opinion if I want an assessment of my reading skills, thanks. For reasons similar to the reasons why few people bother cheating off of the quiz of a D student.

  165. 165
    Tethys

    Oh oliver, quit crangling all over the thread. You are wrong, KG is not wrong. That is why KG correctly observed that you are being a dishonest little shit.

    Billgunn is not a regular here, and his comment was a bit clumsy, but he was correct.

  166. 166
    Amphiox

    Oh please, KG has been name calling throughout this entire thread

    And every name so called was thoroughly appropriate and utterly deserved.

    I was entirely polite to your little poodle until he went off with this: “You’re a dishonest little shit.”

    Comments by olivercrandle fromm before that comment by KG:

    I was entirely polite to your little poodle until he went off with this: “You’re a dishonest little shit.”

    Don’t worry, I am not saying most of PZ’s followers are total jackasses, I am only observing it is certain a significant number are.

    KG, thank you for confirming that yeah, you fail probability*, statistical analysis, experimental design, data analysis…

    And are still unable to click on a link.

    Another pathetic liar, I see.

    (*this is particular rich, coming from someone who started out in his very first post extrapolating from a N of 1)

  167. 167
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    oliver your nonsensical non sequiturs about ‘self-hate’ are non-relevant. The question billgunn addressed was why would someone accuse someone else as an insult of being a “self-hating Jewish Liberal”, especially when the accuser is himself Jewish. Is his analysis correct? I don’t know, but he was proven correct about a couple of things. There are other plausible hypotheses, mine being that Jack Sarfatti has gotten his mind quantumly-entangled with his arse. But billgunn’s hypothesis isn’t implausible, though perhaps he could have more clearly expressed as speculation.

  168. 168
    olivercrangle

    Telling someone they fail probability is not polite?

    “That Sarfatti is a Jewish zionist can be seen by the the standard hasbara insult to PZ calling him a “self hating jew”. This is a coded insult by zionists for any anti-zionist of Jewish origins.”

    This is not “clumsy”, the cries of “zionist” are plainly anti-semitic.

    “Don’t talk like that. When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking anti-Semitism” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

    And as I’ve shown it’s not even accurate. There is a long history of Jews calling other Jews self-loathing that has nothing to do with Israel.

    And yes, I am surprised and shocked that PZ Myers’ commentariat would defend an anti-semite by claiming he was “clumsy” or defend KG’s defense as claiming it was accurate and logical when plainly it is not.

    PZ Myers, are you aware of the ignorant bigoted nonsense your commentariat will proclaim in your threads?

  169. 169
    olivercrangle

    Waffler, it’s one thing to waffle, it’s another to be intellectually dishonest. Don’t be that guy.

    Be this guy. http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/cargocul.htm

  170. 170
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    And yes, I am surprised and shocked

    Who gives a shit if you are surprised and shocked by people who know definitions, and how to use them properly? Since you don’t.

    it’s another to be intellectually dishonest.

    Then stop being dishonest. Life is simple.

  171. 171
    Waffler, of the Waffler Institute

    Telling someone they fail probability is not polite?

    Lying rarely is, oliver.

  172. 172
    olivercrangle

    That Sarfatti is a Jewish zionist can be seen by the the standard hasbara insult to PZ calling him a “self hating jew”. This is a coded insult by zionists for any anti-zionist of Jewish origins.

    PZ Myers is a biologist.
    PZ Myers is an atheist.

    Therefore all biologists are atheists.

    As I said, you guys fail basic logic. Plus you defend anti-semites. Is this par for FreeThoughtBlogs or is it only that a significant number of PZ commenters are total jackasses? I prefer to believe the latter.

    John is a con artist. John has black hair. Therefore, all people with black hair are con artists.

    Jane is good at math. Jane is dyslexic. Therefore, all dyslexic people are good at math.

    Simon, Karl, Jared, and Brett are all friends of Josh, and they are all petty criminals. Jill is a friend of Josh; therefore, Jill is a petty criminal.

    All dogs have four legs; my cat has four legs. Therefore, my cat is a dog.

  173. 173
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I explained to you my various methodologies and logic, go back up post and see.

    And then I counted some out for you.

    No, you made a blanket accusation using the methodology of ‘my opinion trumps all!’ Then you referred to some well written comments which, I suppose, could be twisted in such a way as to make them appear, out of context, jackassical.

    All of this supports my position re: billgunn and KG that it is illogical and a smear to claim that self loathing Jew must be associated with Israel or anti-Israeli speech.

    Really? How? How does your misrepresentation of someone else’s statement support your position?

  174. 174
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I prefer to believe the latter.

    Belief is the ability to think something true despite evidence to the contrary or lack of evidence for support.

    Again, your claim that ‘a significant number of PZ commenters are total jackasses’ still has not been supported. Your opinion is just that — an opinion.

    But I’m just a self-hating atheist (and you have decided to use that to bolster your opinions?) so what the fuck do I know?

  175. 175
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    And yes, I am surprised and shocked that PZ Myers’ commentariat would defend an anti-semite by claiming he was “clumsy” or defend KG’s defense as claiming it was accurate and logical when plainly it is not.

    PZ Myers, are you aware of the ignorant bigoted nonsense your commentariat will proclaim in your threads?

    Tee hee.

    You really are a pathetic little shit, Crangle.

    Go upstairs and cry to your mommy, ‘cuz no one else (including our esteemed sqiuddly overlord) is going to give one tiny little fuck about you opinion of the commentariat.

  176. 176
    olivercrangle

    “But I’m just a self-hating atheist”

    Why are you a self-hating atheist?

    That doesn’t sound healthy or normal. Have you tried /r/braindamage?

  177. 177
    Tethys

    Based on the current sample size of 22 comments by olivercrangle, I conclude that he is poor at reading comprehension, has a tendency to project his biases onto others, and fails completely at logic and detecting sarcasm.

  178. 178
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Why are you a self-hating atheist?

    Well, more of a self-hating human. With my history (do you really want to know?) I think I’m doing pretty good but I’m still blaming myself for some pretty bad shit.

  179. 179
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    That doesn’t sound healthy or normal. Have you tried /r/braindamage?

    And of course you are the arbiter of who I should be, right? No brain damage involved. Damage, yes, brain damage, no.

    And thank you so much for ignoring the substantive parts of my post, though. I appreciate that.

  180. 180
    Owlmirror

    As I said, you guys fail basic logic.

    Well, you say that, but you’re a dishonest troll who is clearly dishonestly misrepresenting what people have written.

    And you’re also defending the guy making multiple basic logic fails.

    Plus you defend anti-semites.

    What anti-semite? At most, billgunn’s statement is a condemnation of the behavior of (some) Zionists. Concluding that he therefore opposes people for being Jewish . . . is a basic logic fail.

    And I note that it is you who are defending the anti-semite who started this.

    After all, why would anyone but an anti-semite use “self-hating Jewish Liberal” as an insult?

    Why are you a self-hating atheist?

    Why are you a troll?

  181. 181
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    olivercrangle seems to think that using the word “zionist” is inherently anti-semitic.

    I guess this makes me anti-semitic.

  182. 182
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    olivercrangle seems to think that using the word “zionist” is inherently anti-semitic.

    I guess this makes me anti-semitic.

    Heh. Crangle-the-ass-canker probably doesn’t really think that “Zionist” is inherently anti-semitic. Likely, it is Jack Sarfatti’s opposite number and is just writing whatever unreasonable insult crosses its little mind. It probably hopes that if it throws enough shit, something will stick. “Self-hating Jew”, “anti-semitic”, what’s the difference when they are both unsupported and bandied about by internet trolls like either Sarfatti or Crangle ?

  183. 183
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters
    Why are you a self-hating atheist?

    Well, more of a self-hating human. With my history (do you really want to know?) I think I’m doing pretty good but I’m still blaming myself for some pretty bad shit.

    Stop it, Ogvorbis. Your history is none of the troll’s business.

    I don’t mean to be bossy – well, yes, I really do mean to be bossy. This is really really Don’t-Go-There time. Don’t go there, not even to prove a point about the terminal stupidity of Crangle’s “self-hating-Jew” analogies.

    Sorry, Ogvorbis.

  184. 184
    olivercrangle

    Jebus OgVorbis, listen to hotshoe, and figure out that the Internet is not always your friend.

    hotshoe, “zionist” is not always anti-semitic, but when billgunn uses it in the canonical anti-semitic fashion, it does you no good to deny it or defend it as “clumsy”.

  185. 185
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Yawn, OC just can’t shut the fuck up, digging the hole deeper and deeper with every insipid and inane post. First rule of holes OC, stop digging when in over your head. That was your first post here, where you were WRONG. Only deeper since then…

  186. 186
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    hotshoe, “zionist” is not always anti-semitic, but when billgunn uses it in the canonical anti-semitic fashion, it does you no good to deny it or defend it as “clumsy”.

    Fuck off, you dishonest little twerp. Your kind is not welcome around here.

  187. 187
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    I almost missed this:

    New Zealand has produced better things more recently.

    Conchords!

    We need parents to make more kids, so there’ll be more money because there’ll be more teeth.

    Can’t fault that logic.

  188. 188
    olivercrangle

    hotshoe,

    Fuck off, you dishonest little twerp. Your kind is not welcome around here

    I accept your concession on these points.

    Thank you.

  189. 189
    John Morales

    [meta]

    olivercrangle, it is proper that you accept that you’re dishonest and a twerp and not welcome and that hotshoe wishes for you to fuck off, but thanking hotshoe for it is odd.

  190. 190
    chigau (違う)

    [meta, too]
    John Morales
    I think that #188 can be translated as:
    “I know you are but what am I?”
    This was a taunt we used when I was a child.
    (it never made sense)

  191. 191
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    it never made sense

    Still par for for the OC posts.

  192. 192
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    A song dedicated to an obnoxious little twerp

    True story!! Happy ending.

    (not youtube; press to play )

  193. 193
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    #188 is “you haven’t–in my opinion–dissuaded me, so I win”.

    (AKA “this is my ball and I’m taking it home”.)

  194. 194
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    [and, finally]

    Why is it always the ones who log in via Facebook?

  195. 195
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Stop it, Ogvorbis. Your history is none of the troll’s business.

    I don’t mean to be bossy – well, yes, I really do mean to be bossy. This is really really Don’t-Go-There time. Don’t go there, not even to prove a point about the terminal stupidity of Crangle’s “self-hating-Jew” analogies.

    Sorry, Ogvorbis.

    Yeah.

    I shouldn’t have gone there. I responded to the initial idiot and wasn’t really thinking about where I wanted to go.

    No apology needed. You were/are absolutely correct.

  196. 196
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Olivercrangle

    Therefore all biologists are atheists

    Oh oh oh! I can play this game, too!

    One commenter is a jackass.
    Oliver Crangle is an idiot.

    Therefore every person who reads Pharyngula is a total jackass.

    Do I get a cookie for fucking up a logical conclusion as badly as you did?

    … defend an anti-semite

    Ah hahahahahahaha HA! Oh ho ho.

    Do words actually mean anything in your universe, Ollie?

    Cm:
    The facebook login is usually an indication that the troll is neither smart enough nor cares about their privacy enough to actually create a login.

    Case in point: Our little Ollie apparently is a fan of both Sarah Palin and “mature Latinas”. Tsk.

  197. 197
    olivercrangle

    One commenter is a jackass.
    Oliver Crangle is an idiot.

    Therefore every person who reads Pharyngula is a total jackass.

    Do I get a cookie for fucking up a logical conclusion as badly as you did?

    Yeah, you should consider re-reading my post.

    Our little Ollie apparently is a fan of both Sarah Palin and “mature Latinas”

    Are you not a fan of mature latinas? Are you racist? What’s your problem?

    Anyway, have to feed Facebook something when making profiles, amirite?

    If you dislike logging in with facebook, why does PZ allow it, and what is the more preferred to PZ groupies login?

  198. 198
    John Morales

    [meta + OT]

    olivercrangle:

    Yeah, you should consider re-reading my post.

    Your unwarranted extrapolation from a set of one and an unsupported notion doesn’t look any better the second time around.

    Are you not a fan of mature latinas? Are you racist? What’s your problem?

    You imagine it’s a problem to appreciate people for who they are, rather than for their ethnic and age categorisation?

    (Some of us aren’t such simpletons)

    Anyway, have to feed Facebook something when making profiles, amirite?

    No more than a nym and an email address, actually.

    (Personal predilections such as you indicate are entirely optional)

    If you dislike logging in with facebook, why does PZ allow it, and what is the more preferred to PZ groupies login?

    What part of “The facebook login is usually an indication that the troll is neither smart enough nor cares about their privacy enough to actually create a login.” was confusing to you? :)

    (You should take this puny trollling to The [Thunderdome], where you may last a bit longer without unduly irritating the CEO whilst still amusing us)

  199. 199
    chigau (違う)

    olivercrangle
    You may as well give up.
    You are grasping at straws.
    and at 25 comments, you, too, are a PZ groupy.

  200. 200
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    I’m always amazed at those slow learners who, after repeating themselves for 20 times, think the 21st repetition of the same idiocy is the magic kumbaya one. We catch on fast. If nobody agrees with you after three repetitions, the fault is with you, not us.

  201. 201
    ck

    As I said, you guys fail basic logic. Plus you defend anti-semites.

    You still haven’t explained how you made the leap from KG and billgunn mentioning that “self-hating Jew” being a stock insult used to label anyone who opposes the Israeli government to them insisting that the term was invented and only ever used by said government.

    And you still haven’t explained how you extrapolate a single comment into mass agreement with a position no one actually took. And no, mentioning statistics, meta analysis and other opaque terms doesn’t really count. The techniques in these fields have names, you know. Just listing the fields is something dishonest people do when they want to claim they’re right but don’t want to bother with pesky things like evidence or facts.

    Fuck off, you dishonest little twerp. Your kind is not welcome around here

    I accept your concession on these points.

    He meant dishonest twerps who lie about what others say, not Jewish people. Although, I guess since you’ve been completely dishonest since showing up, there’s no point stopping now. Why not up the ante on your lies, and claim those two have genocidal intentions? It’s no more ridiculous than anything else you’ve claimed they are saying.

  202. 202
    olivercrangle

    What part of “The facebook login is usually an indication that the troll is neither smart enough nor cares about their privacy enough to actually create a login.” was confusing to you? :)

    Well I guess all of it.

    I’m given a choice of Facebook, Yahoo, Google, or WordPress, each of which make creating an account a simple matter of a “nym and an email address” but somehow you view facebook as meaning I care less about my privacy than Yahoo, Google (doubleclick and google analytics) or WordPress (gravatar privacy leaking)

    How do you login?

    Is that your own personal gravatar next to your name?

    You do realize that gravatars are a huge privacy leak, right?

    Hey John, this is an MD5 hash of something, probably your email address: 4987928529753f6ca237841116b867fb

    That number is associated with every wordpress blog you comment at logged in however you do. Or any site that uses gravatars that you log in to similar to however you log in here.

    If you have a search engine that scrapes sites and allows people to search in the html of a page, you can easily find every single comment you have ever made.

    And if that comment is say at a hacker site, or at a AARP site, or at a anti-gay site, or wherever, that can all be used to build a very nice profile of 4987928529753f6ca237841116b867fb and the kinds of comments that 4987928529753f6ca237841116b867fb makes and whether 4987928529753f6ca237841116b867fb is a member of AARP, or hates gays or whatever.

    If you’re actually worried about privacy, you probably should avoid any site that uses gravatars.

  203. 203
    olivercrangle

    ckitching

    You still haven’t explained how you made the leap from KG and billgunn mentioning that “self-hating Jew” being a stock insult used to label anyone who opposes the Israeli government to them insisting that the term was invented and only ever used by said government.

    That’s not what billgunn said.

    That Sarfatti is a Jewish zionist can be seen by the the standard hasbara insult to PZ calling him a “self hating jew”. This is a coded insult by zionists for any anti-zionist of Jewish origins.

    You should read closer and not defend bigoted comments or pretend when they are not bigoted, and in this case anti-semitic.

  204. 204
    John Morales

    [OT]

    olivercrangle:

    I’m given a choice of Facebook, Yahoo, Google, or WordPress, each of which make creating an account a simple matter of a “nym and an email address” but somehow you view facebook as meaning I care less about my privacy than Yahoo, Google (doubleclick and google analytics) or WordPress (gravatar privacy leaking)

    You are making an unwarranted extrapolation again; all you know is that I refuted your claim that you need to put personal preferences into FB in order to create an account.

    If you’re actually worried about privacy, you probably should avoid any site that uses gravatars.
    [...]
    If you have a search engine that scrapes sites and allows people to search in the html of a page, you can easily find every single comment you have ever made.

    Such ignorance!

    (They can find comments I’ve made on sites that support Gravatar (the which only points to a particular (and disposable) email account), not to all comments I’ve ever made — and since Usenet days I’ve been fully aware that every comment I’ve ever made is in the public domain and only reveals what I don’t mind being publicly known)

    PS this is a topical rather than an opoen thread, O Sarfatti apologist, so I helpfully remind you of what it’s about.

    PZ wrote:

    That nutcase Jack Sarfatti (he’s been a plague on the internet since my usenet days) left a comment on the Scienceblogs side of things, which is very similar to a lot of my email, and I really don’t understand it.

    You sound like a Nazi with The Final Solution for those you consider crazy. Shame on you – another self-hating Jewish Liberal. I don’t buy Creationist’s stuff either but I would not send them to the ovens as you clearly would do if you could with the venom in your writing.
    Jack Sarfatti

  205. 205
    John Morales

    olivercrangle cavils at ckitching:

    You should read closer and not defend bigoted comments or pretend when they are not bigoted, and in this case anti-semitic.

    Such doltishness!

    ckitching is attacking (rather than defending) Sarfatti’s bigoted comment.

    (Duh)

  206. 206
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    Dunno, is this Crangle ass-canker a Fundamgelical? Is there any other group in the US who have the same problem of misidentifying a mild disparagement of Zionism as anti-semitic? All of ass-canker’s illogical ravings seem so … religious. End times, folks, gotta have Israel ascendant to bring on the end times.

  207. 207
    ck

    olivercrangle wrote:

    You should read closer and not defend bigoted comments or pretend when they are not bigoted, and in this case anti-semitic.

    If you wanted to take offence at the repeated use of ‘zionist’, I might have agreed with you. That word, like the phrase “International Banker” is regularly used as coded language by anti-semites to hide their bigotry as they rant about Jews. However, you did not choose to object to that. Instead you went after the claim that “self-hating Jew” was the “the standard hasbara insult”, and produced an elaborate fiction that billgunn and KG insisted it was invented and/or solely used by the Israeli government against its critics (which is ridiculous).

    It’s trivial to show that the barb of “self-hating Jew” is very commonly used against critics of Israel’s government, and the wikipedia article you posted even mentions it. Just like the American conservative standard insult of “anti-American” or “hating America”, it’s a way to dismiss criticism without addressing it.

    I don’t know enough about billgunn to know if he’s a bigot or not. What I do know is that you have repeatedly built elaborate strawman versions of these two people’s arguments for you to tear down, and when called on it, you simply reassert that you are correct.

  208. 208
    Tethys

    I see that oliver is still stinking up the thread with manufactured offense at comments nobody made.

    On topic, I note that Yiddish and Old High German are related languages. Yiddish means Jewish in German.

    Meier is a common surname or part of compound surnames among Swabian Germans, but it means dairy farmer. The word for Mayor in the same dialect is Schultheis. (I am guessing at the spelling because I am too lazy to pull out the genealogy records to check)

  209. 209
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ollie,
    I’ve read your posts multiple times now, trying to figure out how one can be so stupid and yet still be able to figure out how to use a keyboard.

    I’ve nothing against Latinas, I’m just not so crass as to display my pornography preferences for the world to see. (It’d be a little akward if say my employer saw that. But, then again, my security settings are tight enough that my boss can’t see what I post, anyway.) I also don’t reduce groups of people down to my opinion of their sexual appeal. Imagine that.

    And, no, you don’t have to “feed facebook when making profiles”. My login, for instance, has no connection to my facebook account. There are multiple ways to login and I have zero interest in holding your hand because you’re too stupid/lazy/scared to find out how to make one for yourself. (I should also point out that if you do manage a different login, changing ‘nyms is frowned upon, so you’d still be stuck with olivercrangle, which probably won’t solve your facebook problem.)

  210. 210
    David Marjanović

    I’m using the default, a FtB login. :-| It’s somehow connected to WordPress, but it’s not a WordPress login.

    Why are you a self-hating atheist?

    Ooh, a logic fail. He’s self-hating, and he’s an atheist; but he’s not self-hating because of his atheism. It’s not his lack of faith that he finds disturbing.

    Are you not a fan of mature latinas? Are you racist? What’s your problem?

    The problem is that you’re contradicting yourself: Palin wants to kick all the mature Latinas out of your country! Such a paragon of knowledge and logic you are…

    That’s why Audley phrased it as “both [...] and”.

    No more than a nym and an email address, actually.

    And something that looks like a birth date.

    Yiddish and Old High German are related languages

    Why Old? The part of Yiddish that is from German is from a cross-section of New High German dialects, mostly southwestern ones.

    Schultheis. (I am guessing at the spelling

    Usually ends up as Schultheiß, sometimes Schultheiss, I suppose.

  211. 211
    Tethys

    David Marjanović

    Why Old? The part of Yiddish that is from German is from a cross-section of New High German dialects, mostly southwestern ones.

    Because IANAL, and according to the pfft of all knowledge on Yiddish

    Yiddish (ייִדיש yidish or אידיש idish, literally “Jewish”) is a High German language of Ashkenazi Jewish origin, spoken in many parts of the world.

    I’ve never encountered the term New High German. It’s usually Old High German -> Middle German -> Standard German. I do have a quibble with the wiki entry on the le word ending, as it should be el and is not strictly a diminutive. It is also used as a verb as in the Yiddish words schlemiel and schlemazel or both as in the Schwabian term of endearment schnickelfritz.

  212. 212
    BrianX

    Sarfatti’s crankery long predates Usenet. According to Martin Gardner’s book “Science: Good, Bad, and Bogus”, Sarfatti was one of the prime Geller-gawkers of the 1970s — I think Gardner called his kind (rather overly diplomatically) “counterculture physicists”. Among other things, I believe he was one of the more prominent people to accuse James Randi of being unqualified to spot psychic fraud because he was a magician, not a physicist; in other words, Sarfatti’s been running up the facepalms since long before there was a public Internet to generate facepalms on.

  213. 213
    BrianX

    Tethys:

    The distinction is made, both in English and German. Basically High German and Low German are geographical references; Low German (Plattdeutsch) is a group of dialects that are probably closer to Dutch and Old English than they are German*, and they’re mostly spoken in the plains of Northern Germany, especially around the Rhine Valley. High German, on the other hand, originated mostly in the Alpine foothills and apparently once went as far south as Lombardy in Italy. (There’s even a “highest German” — it’s a Swiss dialect more properly known as Highest Allemanic.)

    For practical purposes, the difference is in the handling of certain consonants, of which the p->pf and t->z (/ts/) or ß (ss) shifts are the most obvious. The “higher” (i.e. further south into the Alps) the dialect, the more radical the shift becomes; in fact, the sound changes are so profound that quite a few Swiss consider Swiss German to be a language in its own right, as it’s nearly incomprehensible to Standard German speakers.

    Finally, to Yiddish. Yiddish reflects what’s known as Middle High German, which is roughly contemporary with the period in which Middle English developed under Norman influence; Yiddish emerged as a literary language in the late 1200s, and the dialects of Eastern Yiddish, which is what most people think of when they talk about Yiddish, developed with a lot of Slavic influence. (Western Yiddish was spoken into Northern France and faded out as the Enlightenment gathered steam.)

    *If you like random trivia, Plattdeutsch would be transitional between Ingaevonic (North Sea Germanic — English and Frisian) and Irminonic (High German and Yiddish), with Istaevonic (Dutch and Flemish) in the middle; those three groups make up the West Germanic dialect continuum. The names come from Roman-era Germanic ethnicities.

  214. 214
    Tethys

    Thanks BrianX, though I am a bit confused by

    The distinction is made, both in English and German.

    I understand the difference between Low German and High German, but I am unsure what David means when he refers to New High German.

    The vast majority of my genealogy records are written in a dialect of High German, and translating them is often challenging.

  215. 215
    BrianX

    Hm. Well, I hope someone else enjoys the trivia then. You may have noticed I find linguistics rather interesting.

    Anyway, Wikipedia, for whatever it’s worth, seems to take New High German as being the German language and the forms it’s taken since the invention of the printing press. For whatever it’s worth.

  216. 216
    richardh

    Sarfatti@97:

    When you gutter snipes achieve recognition in major mediapeer-reviewed journals let me know.

    FTFY.

  217. 217
    Nick Gotts
    Some total jackass in your comments, billgunn, associates “self-hating Jew” with Israeli propaganda, well, sadly, this shows there are tons of idiots in your followers as stupid, foolish, and manipulative as any Creationist. – olivercrangle

    No, just that there are people posting on this blog who can observe obvious facts. While there are indeed self-hating Jews, the accusation of being one is flung at any Jewish critic of Israel, and indeed, as Jack Sarfatti shows, at any supposed Jew with liberal or left views, even if they are not actually Jewish and say little if anything about Israel. – me

    I see olivercrangle is still being a dishonest little shit. Above is my first comment on the matter. Note that I am simply responding to olivercrangle’s claim that a single person “associating” the use of “self-hating Jew” as an insult with “Israeli government propaganda” shows that “there are tons of idiots in your followers as stupid, foolish, and manipulative as any Creationist”. I showed in a subsequent comment that (quite apart from the fact that a comment by a single individual, who as others have noted is not a regular here could not show anything about “tons” of “followers”) since the use of “self-hating Jew” as an insult is associated with Israeli government propaganda, that was not the case. I agree that billgunn was wrong to say that aiming that insult at PZ shows that Sarfatti is a Jewish Zionist; in fact, it is only fairly strong evidence that he is, Sarfatti being Jewish, and this being an insult that is currently mainly used by Zionists against those they perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be Jewish anti-Zionists or critics of Israel. For all I know, billgunn may be an antisemite; but his single comment is considerably further from showing that to be the case (or that he is an idiot) than Sarfatti’s use of the insult “self-hating Jew” against PZ is from showing that Sarfatti is a Jewish Zionist.

  218. 218
    Nick Gotts

    BTW, if any of those who have participated in this discussion find that they have been shrunk to a height of two feet, they know who to blame!

  219. 219
    Nick Gotts

    Correction: I see olivercrangle said “Israeli propaganda” rather than “Israeli government propaganda”. If this makes any difference, it’s that the association is considerably stronger, since much Israeli propaganda that is not actually produced or endorsed by Israeli government members or agencies uses the insult “self-hating Jew” against Jewish critics of Israeli policies or actions.

  220. 220
    chemicalscum

    #109 @olivercrangle

    What I said was:

    If you find on any current thread on the internet where someone is accused of being a “self-hating Jew” is is from a pro-Zionist berating someone of suspected Jewish origins for not supporting Israel and the Zionist project. No I am not an anti-semite, I pointed this out to show that Sarfatti was not an anti-semite as some people seemed to interpret his diatribe as such. Personally I would regard being described as a “self-hating Jew” as a badge of honour, many of the people I most respect are often labelled as one.

    Is this man a self hating-Jew or a man of integrity and a great humanist.

  221. 221
    chemicalscum

    FTB seems to have mangled my my thoughtful comment. Maybe I messed up the HTML, I cant tell as the preview facility doesn’t work. No matter it has the central paragraph that summarizes my views. Please follow the link I gave to to an old Dick Cavett interview with a man who has often been described as a self-hating Jew.

    To me he is an intellectual hero. I remember sitting at his feet forty years ago, because the small lecture theatre we had organized for his talk had become so crowded when people realised who the Dr. J. Miller, Fellow in the History of Medicine at University College London who was going to talk about the influence of Phrenologico-mesmerism at University College Hospital in the 19th Century really was. It was a mesmerizing performance leaving an enthralled audience.

    I find it interesting that while my point about the current political usage of the term “self-hating Jew” stirred a hornet’s nest of comments and personal insults. While on the other hand my comments on Dr. Sarfatti’s role in re-evaluating the interpretation of Quantum Mechanics goes uncommented when it is possibly the more interesting topic.

    I hope that this comment gets through unmangled

  222. 222
    chemicalscum

    My apologies to Waffler, of the Waffler Institute. I only just noticed that in comment #167 he does rather succinctly describe a possible effect of Jack Sarfatti’s interpretation of QM. So at least one person on the thread does have an interest in QM.

  223. 223
    chigau (違う)

    billgunn
    I looked at the source code. FtB didn’t mangle anything, you did.
    you need more of these ////
    but I agree about Jonathan Miller.
    I’ve a fan for decades.

  224. 224
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    Maybe I messed up the HTML, I cant tell as the preview facility doesn’t work

    Preview works just fine for the rest of us. It appears below the comment box, pretty much just like you’d expect it would.

    True, the preview doesn’t always allow you to doublecheck live links by hovering your mouse over them. (I bet that’s a browser issue.) So that part could still have been borked. But at least you would have gotten your blockquotes correct.

    [blockquote]what you want to quote[/blockquote] – except use angles< and its opposite – around the word "blockquote", instead of [...].

    Yeah, I can't do HTML either, so I can't do the cute codes.

  225. 225
    chigau (違う)

    If you type
    <blockquote>paste quoted text here</blockquote>
    this will result.

    paste quoted text here

    .
    <a href=”paste URL here”>type cute name for link here</a>
    type cute name for link here
    .
    That’s about it for my HTML.
    oh
    &hearts;

    &deg;
    °
    &ne;

  226. 226
    chemicalscum

    test

  227. 227
    chemicalscum

    Thanks chigau (違わない)

    I just looked at the source code too, yeah I messed up the HTML. When I wrote it, and tried the preview, I wasn’t getting anything in the preview box below it just appeared empty. I am now and when I paste back the the source code of my comment it showed the comment as it appeared in the thread. I don’t know what happened then.

  228. 228
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Jack Sarfatti

    Great photo of you and Uri Gellar on your wiki page.

  229. 229
    Useless

    It’s all that money you’re hiding in the Caymans and the little bag of gold that all Jews carry. I learned that on South Park from Cartman.

  230. 230
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    totalretard

    .

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