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Apr 08 2012

Selling papers on Easter Sunday

That was really quick. The Salt Lake Tribune already has an account of my evening’s talk — it’s fairly accurate, too, since I did give a bit of a firebreathing talk.

Also, they have a number of photos online. I didn’t even notice, but I did kinda like this one.

I’m now picturing large numbers of Mormons reading the paper on Easter Sunday morning and hearing all about the ferocious atheists gathering in the city. Rah, us!

OK, here’s another one of me calling down atheist wrath.

Now you’ve seen the full range of the PZ Myers Experience.

287 comments

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  1. 1
    brazenlucidity

    Rah! Indeed. Lol!

  2. 2
    eigenperson

    That picture is just begging to be turned into an internet meme.

  3. 3
    eigenperson

    EBWOP: I mean the first one. You changed the post on me!

  4. 4
    leighshryock

    I didn’t know you were so photogenic, PZ.

  5. 5
    Ze Madmax

    Now you’ve seen the full range of the PZ Myers Experience.

    No cephalopods? :(

  6. 6
    Inaji

    Love that top shot!

  7. 7
    Cipher

    Hee hee hee. The second one is my favorite.

  8. 8
    waydude

    Man, missed the talk and no drinking after party too! Beer numbs the knee pain, I think the saying goes. You know, we do have a lot of good beer since you last lived here. Got yer evolution amber (intelligently designed – ha!), Polygamy porter, and of course, the Nitro Stout. No funny name, just good beer.

    To top it off, I’ll have to read about it in Utah’s second least conservative paper.

  9. 9
    CompulsoryAccount7746, Sky Captain

    Doing an impression of “drunk octopus wants to fight you,” eh?
    Image

  10. 10
    andrewriding

    I was pretty pleased that I got out to see it, even if the freeway on ramps straight down the hill confused me and had me driving in circles long enough to be thirty minutes late for my date after it (we weren’t really each other’s types anyway, and I was a bit too excited about replacing religion to go along with her ‘spiritual but not religious’ kind of stance.)

  11. 11
    Ray, rude-ass yankee (Whimsy, I has it)

    I like the “atheist wrath” one, it should be on a t-shirt! Or maybe captioned “Dang religious people, get off my lawn!”

  12. 12
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    That second photo just calls out the rage of Samuel L Jackson, I expect him to carry a wallet that says BAD MOTHERFUCKER.

    And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers.

  13. 13
    nelsondyck

    I imagine PZ screaming “RELEASE THE KRAKEN!”
    or
    “RELEASE THE HORDE!”

  14. 14
    Ray, rude-ass yankee (Whimsy, I has it)

    I lack the skills to photoshop a cane into PZ’s hand (to shake in anger) in that picture, but somebody should!

  15. 15
    Inaji

    Ray:

    I like the “atheist wrath” one, it should be on a t-shirt!

    Why compromise? Atheist wrath on the front, Happy atheist on the back. :D

  16. 16
    Ray, rude-ass yankee (Whimsy, I has it)

    Caine, Cruel Monster@15, Works for me! Maybe reversible front to back depending on whether you want to lead with “wrath” or “happy”?

  17. 17
    DLC

    Well, if you speak the truth, saying that the emperor has no clothes, and indeed, the emperor has no clothes, then everyone who has a vested interest in the emperor’s non-clothes being of superior quality, finest threads and most stylish cut will be calling you rude, mocking and annoying.

  18. 18
    Ray, rude-ass yankee (Whimsy, I has it)

    YeeGads, it’s almost 4:25 am for me. I’m for bed. Happy Zombie Jesus Day!

  19. 19
    Dick the Damned

    Discussing religion:

    Caption 1 – I’ll show you what they’ve got.

    Caption 2 – That’s what they’ve got.

  20. 20
    radpumpkin

    That last image just begs to be shopped. Dunno, a ruined cityscape in the background, and a semi-transparent red-black gradient on top? Or just a mushroom cloud?

  21. 21
    mudpuddles

    All atheists will burn in hell. Jesus rose this Easter day to demonstrate his power over death, those who reject this evidence will never know eternal life….

    Wow. What a load of utter nonsense. Can you imagine I used to believe that shite? Happy Zombie day everyone!

  22. 22
    Nick Gotts

    According to Pope Palpatine, humanity is:

    groping in the darkness, unable to distinguish good from evil. [emphasis added]

    …or even one end of an altar boy from the other.

  23. 23
    'Tis Himself

    KG #22

    Certainly Benny Ratzi has problems making the distinction, or else he and his mob wouldn’t support and protect child rapists.

  24. 24
    carlie

    I was also going to say t-shirt with the first one. :D Of course, the happy atheist isn’t the one the paper led with on the story.

  25. 25
    mikehuben

    Long time fan of PZ, but taken out of context the body language of the two pictures remind me of Buddy Jesus and Mussolini gesticulating in a speech.

  26. 26
    carlie

    I’m seeing it as a multi-picture meme, where something good (first picture) something bad (second picture).

    Such as the headline “Atheist banner goes up in Streator, IL” (first pic!) “Atheist banner stolen in Streator, IL” (second pic)

  27. 27
  28. 28
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Someone needs to ‘Shop a banhammer in the second pic stat!

  29. 29
  30. 30
    flatlander100

    And the comment thread on the Trib is already 22 screens deep, 212 comments and counting [as of 8:20 AM Easter morning]. PZ seems to have put a cat among the canaries. [I know, I know, like that's news.....]

  31. 31
    Zugswang

    Someone needs to ‘Shop a banhammer in the second pic stat!

    Okie dokie.

  32. 32
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Zugswang,
    Ha ha! Fuck yeah!

    That is awesome. :D

  33. 33
    Lynna, OM

    From the comments below the story in the Salt Lake Tribune:

    Obnoxious. Any belief system that inspires such arrogance is hardly an improvement.

    Good thing the scientific method isn’t a belief system then huh?

  34. 34
    Lynna, OM

    Link to church sign — given in comments below the SL Trib story:

    http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/god-sign.jpg

  35. 35
    Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

    So, while calling down atheist wrath, was anyone in the audience smote?

  36. 36
    Lynna, OM

    PZ, the link you provide in your blog post leads to the comments section.

    The link should be:
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53872835-78/atheist-myers-science-utah.html.csp

  37. 37
    Lynna, OM

    279 comments, and climbing fast, on the Salt Lake Tribune site.

  38. 38
    Lynna, OM

    From the SL Tribune comments section:

    1.) “He says an atheist believes in three core values: truth, autonomy and community.”
    1a.) Apparently, “community” only seems to include people who believe as Paul Meyers does. Isn’t one of an atheist’s criticisms of religion is the exclusion of others not of their faith?

    2.) “We love people who stand up for themselves.”2a.) It would appear the Paul Meyers likes only people who stand up for themselves AND don’t believe in Jesus. Otherwise, Paul would appreciate that many of the religious have held to their beliefs even though many have been killed for doing so.

    3.) “From the perspective of an atheist, they all look like total nut jobs,”
    4.) “But I’m sorry,” he quipped. “I still don’t like you. … You believe in some outrageous bullsh–.”

    3a & 4a.) I have to note that nowhere in the article does Paul Meyers address the need to treat one another with respect. Perhaps because Paul views the world as “facts and data” and is has “zero” willingness to compromise, he sees no scientific reason for respect.

  39. 39
    Lynna, OM

    The story about PZ’s talk is now #4 in the “Most Popular” list on the SL Tribune site.

    From the comments section:

    I have a question for everyone and I really believe it is legit. Why are atheists, as a group, the least likely to give to charity compared to all religious groups (if you remove the charitable givings given to one’s church, it is still higher)? Also, why are atheists more likely to commit suicide compared to any other religious group?

    If you are an atheist, what do you think is the cause of these issues? Is being an atheist a miserable existence? Is there some kind of support group that can be formed to help everyone deal with these issues? I ask this because I don’t know but one atheist and I really don’t know where to find these answers. Thanks.

  40. 40
    Lynna, OM

    From the comments section on the SL Trib site:

    “ICH BIN EIN ATHEIST”

    Luckily, an ex-mormon that goes by the handle SL Drone is a voice of reason in the comments.

  41. 41
    yec123

    Atheists always deny that they are a religion. But they, along with the humanists, organize themselves as if they were a religion following a set of core beliefs. Is it necessary for atheists to hold national conventions, replete with delegates and speakers? What are they mobilizing for? I dread to imagine. Also, how do atheists deal with ex-atheists? Are they ostracized and chastised? Are they regarded as apostates and traitors?

  42. 42
    Lynna, OM

    Also, how do atheists deal with ex-atheists? Are they ostracized and chastised? Are they regarded as apostates and traitors?

    We roast them with the babies, but only after we chastise them. We’re big on logic: so, chastise first, then roast. Them’s the rules.

  43. 43
    Inaji

    yec123:

    Atheists always deny that they are a religion. But they, along with the humanists, organize themselves as if they were a religion following a set of core beliefs. Is it necessary for atheists to hold national conventions, replete with delegates and speakers? What are they mobilizing for? I dread to imagine. Also, how do atheists deal with ex-atheists? Are they ostracized and chastised? Are they regarded as apostates and traitors?

    Boring, same old tripe, idiotic canards which have already been addressed countless times…tsk, bad work, yec. I’ll give that hot mess a D-. Put more work into it. That means you have to think, independently and critically. Focus on original thought, Dear, not original sin.

    *waits*
    .
    .
    .
    *crickets*

  44. 44
    Aratina Cage

    how do atheists deal with ex-atheists?

    Point and laugh. It’s easy!

    “You actually believe that a man came back to life and that Pi = 3, etc., etc., etc.? LOLOLOLOLOL!”

    That inevitably leads the “ex-atheist” to claiming deism or extremely sophisticated theism out of sheer embarassment.

  45. 45
    pixelfish

    Silly PZ. True Mormons read the church-owned Deseret News, not the (or as we called it, even when I was Mormon, the Desperate News.)

    Is it necessary for artists, comic book lovers, movie goers, burners, techie folks and the like to have national conventions? Nobody is calling Burning Man, Comic Con, or SXSW a sign of religiosity. (although if one votes Republican, I can see why you might think a national convention was the sign of a religion.)

    Ex-atheists are subjected to the same scrutiny of their ideas as atheists and non-atheists are. So sometimes we do break out into howls of laughter over stuff they put forward, but it’s not like declaring yourself ex-atheist brings any punitive measures.

  46. 46
    jtvatheist

    Atheists always deny that they are a religion.

    I am not a religion. What did you expect, nimwit?

    But they, along with the humanists, organize themselves as if they were a religion following a set of core beliefs.

    And organizing around core beliefs are exclusive to religion? I suppose the ACLU will be surprised to know this, along with practically any other organization which purports to serve a purpose.

    Is it necessary for atheists to hold national conventions, replete with delegates and speakers? What are they mobilizing for? I dread to imagine.

    *tightens laces on jackboots*

    Also, how do atheists deal with ex-atheists? Are they ostracized and chastised? Are they regarded as apostates and traitors?

    No chastising, at least not from me. But heaps of ridicule and disdain at their poor choice. Besides, if someone decides to become a god-botherer of one variant or another, they pretty much WANT to be ostracized, going so far as to cut all ties and recant their earlier (correctly) held conclusions.

    Was there a point to your attempt at passive aggressive jabs?

  47. 47
    Lynna, OM

    From the comments below the SL Trib story:

    Atheists dont help their cause with such insults and incivility. I think his language proves that Atheists arent as good for society as the religious.

    Sigh. Tired. Such a tired, old complaint. It just lies there and refuses to address the substance of PZ’s talk.

    Of course, the article doesn’t provide much evidence for “such insults and incivility” beyond the fact that PZ objects to moderate Christian beliefs as well as rat-brained, fringe beliefs. Still, any amount of comment on “faith” is considered an insult.

    Even if the news story provided evidence of gratuitous incivility, it would be nice if, for a change, those defending religion could come up with something other than the argument that being polite is better than being right.

  48. 48
    Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

    @jtvatheist, #46,

    Is it jackboots time already? I thought we were waiting for the orbital atheism-inducing lasers to be calibrated first, and I’ve barely begun building my army of flesh-hungry clones from the genetic material of aborted fetuses.

  49. 49
    Rob in Memphis

    Is it necessary for atheists to hold national conventions, replete with delegates and speakers?

    From personal experience, it’s certainly helpful to people like me who live in the heart of the Babble Belt to know that there are other nonbelievers out there, even though I have yet to attend any conventions. Sometimes just knowing there are other people out there who don’t buy into the crazy religious bullshit some of us are surrounded by every day is enough.

    Also, how do atheists deal with ex-atheists? Are they ostracized and chastised? Are they regarded as apostates and traitors?

    We gather in front of a statue of Darwin and pants them while singing Tim Minchin’s “Pope Song.” They’re then made to return their Atheist Secret Decoder Rings, any copies of The Atheist Agenda they may have (both printed and digital versions) and the complimentary copy of To Serve Babies (it’s a cookbook!) they were given when they joined. Pointing and laughing isn’t strictly required, but it is encouraged.

  50. 50
    Nick Gotts

    What are they [atheists] mobilizing for? – yec123

    You have to be pretty stupid (and yes, yec123, I know, you are pretty stupid) to wonder why a group who are routinely the target of hate campaigns, would feel the need to mobilise for collective self-defense. Then of course there is the concerted campaign by fuckwits like you to sabotage women’s rights to control their own bodies, LGBT rights to be accorded equal treatment, and science education, – although let me say at once that in these regards, quite a few of the less loathsome and loopy religious believers are on our side.

  51. 51
    opposablethumbs

    was anyone in the audience smote?

    I wasn’t even in the audience, and I’m pretty smitten ;-)

  52. 52
    Lynna, OM

    PZ, if you are feeling up to it (i.e., not overcome by knee pain), would you fill us in on some of the questions from the audience?

  53. 53
    anchor

    Now there’s a nice photo of an angry atheist, with upraised fists and everything.

  54. 54
    jtvatheist

    Lynna, OM
    Reminded me of:

    Walter Sobchak: Am I wrong?
    The Dude: No you’re not wrong.
    Walter Sobchak: Am I wrong?
    The Dude: You’re not wrong Walter. You’re just an asshole.
    Walter Sobchak: Okay then.

    When the religious say “you’re just an asshole” the “you’re not wrong” is always silent.

    Zinc Avenger

    Is it jackboots time already? I thought we were waiting for the orbital atheism-inducing lasers to be calibrated first, and I’ve barely begun building my army of flesh-hungry clones from the genetic material of aborted fetuses.

    I think it’s a bad idea to fire off the atheism-inducing lasers after creating an army of delicious fetuses. The clones won’t be able to resist and will simply cannibalize each other! Please follow the protocol outlined in your Evil Atheist Conspiracy handbook!

  55. 55
    yec123

    You actually believe that a man came back to life.

    As long as the body doesn’t begin to decompose and rot, its resurrection would not be miraculous: It would be quite possible.

    Did you never watch the episode of Star Trek TNG called “Neutral Zone” (Season 1) where cryogenically frozen humans who died in the 20the century were restored to life in the 24th?

    So why does the regeneration of the body of a man only three days dead surprise you so much? Isn’t this atheistic double standards?

  56. 56
    littlejohn

    In the upper picture, you appear to be hitchhiking. No offense intended, but a guy with a bloody chainsaw would have a better chance at getting a lift!

  57. 57
    Lynna, OM

    Silly PZ. True Mormons read the church-owned Deseret News, not the (or as we called it, even when I was Mormon, the Desperate News.)

    The Salt Lake Tribune employs lots of mormons, is influenced by mormons and by the LDS Church, and has as it’s Chairman and Publisher a quite religious man named William Dean Singleton (a Baptist). Those facts may account for the choice of the most-Hitler-like photo of PZ being used for the lead.

    The SL Tribune began life as a voice solidly for mormonism, an outlet for the LDS way of thinking.

    In 1873 three Kansas businessmen, Frederic Lockley, George F. Prescott and A.M. Hamilton, purchased the paper and turned the newspaper into an anti-Mormon organ …

    In 1901 newly-elected Roman Catholic United States Senator Thomas Kearns, and his business partner David Keith, secretly bought the Tribune. Kearns made strides to eliminate the paper’s anti-Mormon overtones, and succeeded in maintaining good relationships with the mostly-LDS state legislature which had elected him to the Senate. …

    As you can see, the Salt Lake Tribune has a checkered history, with various persons vying to make it a newspaper that offers balance to the predominant mormon culture; and with various other persons trying to turn it into a stealth mormon media outlet.

    The difficulty of striking a balance between printing unbiased news and raising the ire of mormons goes on today. What one sees in the comment sections is that mormons think the SL Tribune is not positive enough about their religion, and non-mormons think the SL Tribune is too careful in tiptoeing around controversial topics.

  58. 58
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    Did you never watch the episode of Star Trek TNG called “Neutral Zone” (Season 1) where cryogenically frozen humans who died in the 20the century were restored to life in the 24th?

    Would this be Rodenberry 12:17? One of the best books of the New Testament.

  59. 59
    Rob in Memphis

    yec123 @55: For what it’s worth, I find it hilarious that you’re defending the Bible with Star Trek. Nicely done, good sir/madam. We could all use more such sophisticated theology. *doffs hat*

  60. 60
    Inaji

    Did you never watch the episode of Star Trek TNG called “Neutral Zone” (Season 1) where cryogenically frozen humans who died in the 20the century were restored to life in the 24th?

    Pssssst, that was a television show. Fiction. Pretend. Lies. Not real. Not true fax. Fake. Just like Jesus the Lich.

    Seriously, Cupcake, you need to start using that brain, else it will be broken beyond repair.

  61. 61
    slignot

    The Trib photographer was sitting just behind spouse and I, and anytime PZ would make a substantial gesture, the lens would click.

    I’m annoyed but not surprised at what didn’t seem notable to the author.
    1. The stated reason for criticizing liberal, mostly pro-science religious people is because they do damage by providing “an escape hatch” any time they want to avoid an uncomfortable reality.
    2. PZ did not pass blanket approval on all atheists, and pointed out areas where we need improvement.
    3. There is zero mention of SHIFT, the local humanist group hosting the speaker. FSM forbid that we acknowledge & risk giving publicity to alien invading atheists in the Morridor.

  62. 62
    Aratina Cage

    As long as the body doesn’t begin to decompose and rot, its resurrection would not be miraculous: It would be quite possible. –yec123

    Really? I’ve never thought of that. Very interesting!

    Did you never watch the episode of Star Trek TNG called “Neutral Zone” (Season 1) where cryogenically frozen humans who died in the 20the century were restored to life in the 24th? –yec123

    You don’t have to remind me of that, I worship Gene Roddenberry. He is my god!

    /NotConfusedAboutRealityAndFictionAtALl

  63. 63
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    yec123:

    Is it necessary for atheists to hold national conventions, replete with delegates and speakers?

    Is it necessary? Probably not. Is it necessary for Christians to do the same thing– whether we’re talking about church or conventions? Not if they’ve read the bible, sweetcakes (Matthew 6:6).

    Speaking of, what the hell are you doing here on Easter Sunday? Shouldn’t you be resting or repenting or self-flagellating or something? It seems like you always show up on Sundays.

    Bah, enough of this. I’m going to go eat some noodles.

  64. 64
    Grumps

    @yec123

    Did you never watch the episode of Star Trek TNG called “Neutral Zone” (Season 1) where cryogenically frozen humans who died in the 20the century were restored to life in the 24th?

    So why does the regeneration of the body of a man only three days dead surprise you so much? Isn’t this atheistic double standards?

    So it wasn’t a miracle then? No resurrection? Is that what your saying? He wasn’t really dead?

    Oh, say it isn’t so! I loves me my zombie Jesus… the just-woke-up Jesus really doesn’t do it for me.

  65. 65
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    My noodles will have to wait.

    yec123,

    As long as the body doesn’t begin to decompose and rot, its resurrection would not be miraculous: It would be quite possible.

    *facepalm!*

    (Caveat: I am not a doctor.) First off, over three day’s time, a body will decompose significantly compared to when it was living– being stuffed in a cave won’t change that.

    Secondly, after just a few minutes of starving the brain of oxygen, you end up with unrepairable brain damage. After three days? There’s no way in hell you’re jump starting that hot mess.

    But your insistence that Jesus’ resurrection isn’t miraculous is noted.

  66. 66
    Lynna, OM

    There is zero mention of SHIFT, the local humanist group hosting the speaker. FSM forbid that we acknowledge & risk giving publicity to alien invading atheists in the Morridor.

    Interesting. Yes, the article should have mentioned SHIFT, and should have provided links or contact info.

    SHIFT organizers should complain until the oversight (if that’s what it was) is fixed.

  67. 67
    Inaji

    Audley:

    But your insistence that Jesus’ resurrection isn’t miraculous is noted.

    No, no, it was a mirakul! See, the cave was a cryogenic chamber. It wasn’t mentioned because El Shaddai wanted it to be a sekrit.

  68. 68
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Did yec123 actually say that? Is this person for real? If so, I would have to say that the long gone silver fox and Barb had a better grasp of reality and of constructing an argument.

  69. 69
    Louis

    Star Trek therefore Jesus?

    I…I…

    STAR TREK WAS NOT A FUCKING DOCUMENTARY YOU MINDLESS PILLOCK!

    The stupid. It burns. IT BURNS!

    Louis

  70. 70
    Aratina Cage

    the just-woke-up Jesus really doesn’t do it for me.

    Groggy Jesus? What he wanted was his cuppa joe, but chocolate eggs were all he could find for his mornin’ caffeine buzz (and why they mistook him for a bunny foraging in the grass).

  71. 71
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Caine:

    See, the cave was a cryogenic chamber.

    But of course! The miraculous cryogenic chamber! Someone should start looking for that– it might come in handy.

  72. 72
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    The microbes in Jesus’ gut knew better than to get busy during those three days. No bloating corpse for the son of the big sky daddy.

  73. 73
    yec123

    For what it’s worth, I find it hilarious that you’re defending the Bible with Star Trek. Nicely done, good sir/madam. We could all use more such sophisticated theology. *doffs hat*

    Gene Roddenberry was a staunch atheist. Many Trekkies are atheists. What is regarded as “miraculous” or “magical” today is just the routine science of tomorrow. There’s another miracle Star Trek technology can make seem mundane: turning water into wine. The standard food replicator can easily achieve this feat. Jesus was just ahead of his time.

  74. 74
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Idiot.

  75. 75
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    yec:

    What is regarded as “miraculous” or “magical” today is just the routine science of tomorrow.

    Ah ha! I was right! Yec doesn’t believe that the resurrection was miraculous*.

    Kind of calls your entire stupid faith into question, doesn’t it?

    *Because Rodenberry thought of it too, apparently?

    There’s a Futurama head in jars joke in there somewhere, I’m sure.

  76. 76
    Aratina Cage

    Jesus was just ahead of his time. –yec123

    Jesus as Borg would make sense as far as the Trinity is concerned.

  77. 77
    feralboy12

    What is regarded as “miraculous” or “magical” today is just the routine science of tomorrow.

    The routine science of today tells me that blowflies would have arrived on Jesus’ body, possibly within minutes, and begun laying eggs in his nose, mouth, and likely the wound in his side. He would be crawling with maggots long before his ascension, and probably with beetles feeding on the maggots as well.
    Obviously I’ve watched more CSI than Star Trek in recent years.

  78. 78
    slignot

    @Lynna,

    There was only one truly idiotic question, one rambling near apologist, and the always popular how do I deal with devout friends & family.

    The idiot expressed his opinion that the president rather than being a secret Muslim is actually “deep down” an atheist. The only useful thing he asked was when PZ expected an openly non-believer to get elected.

    The apologist talked about religions that are fluffy touchy “ways of life” rather than *really* about supernatural beliefs.

    Let’s see, there was a question about how to minimize negative/pejorative aspects of the word “atheist.”

    I was unclear and gave the impression I was taking about atheists using justified anger as a tactic, rather than opponents using accusations of irrational anger as a means of stripping a movement of momentum & power.

  79. 79
    Grumps

    Groggy Jesus?

    If that were a criteria for godhood I’d be up there with Zeus et al. I’ve come back to life after binges that caused at least 48 hours unconsciousness, followed by an 18 hour hangover.

    Maybe he was just the Hungover Jesus, or perhaps the Fuck-I’ll-Never-Do-That-Again-Again Jesus.

  80. 80
    opposablethumbs

    So even after several people point out that Star Trek is, you know, fiction – that’s M.A.K.I.N.G. U.P. S.T.O.R.I.E.S. to the non-cognitive elite – yec123 actually comes back and tries the exact same thing again?

    Wow. I’m impressed. Can it walk and chew gum at the same time, too?

  81. 81
    Cipher

    STAR TREK WAS NOT A FUCKING DOCUMENTARY YOU MINDLESS PILLOCK!

    But…
    But…
    *eyes all giant and shiny with anime tears*
    But Spock is real!
    He is!
    *runs away sobbing*

  82. 82
    Inaji

    Louis:

    STAR TREK WAS NOT A FUCKING DOCUMENTARY YOU MINDLESS PILLOCK!

    I believe Yec is more Thermian minded…historical documents, ya see.

    [Trying to explain TV to the Thermians]
    Gwen DeMarco: They’re not ALL “historical documents.” Surely, you don’t think Gilligan’s Island is a…
    [All the Thermians moan in despair]
    Mathesar: Those poor people.

  83. 83
    yec123

    First off, over three day’s time, a body will decompose significantly compared to when it was living– being stuffed in a cave won’t change that.

    And, yet, many people pronounced dead for days have gone on to be revived.

    But your insistence that Jesus’ resurrection isn’t miraculous is noted.

    No, I didn’t say that exactly: By first century standards it was a miracle. But it would not have been remarkable in the 24th century.

  84. 84
    Inaji

    Audley:

    There’s a Futurama head in jars joke in there somewhere, I’m sure.

    Jarhead Jesus?

  85. 85
    Cipher

    But it would not have been remarkable in the 24th century.fiction.

    FTFY.

  86. 86
    Grumps

    24th century Jesus – Just an ordinary dude!

    Oh well at least all the bullshit is time limited.

  87. 87
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    If Richard Nixon could be a major supporting character, why not a Jarhead Jesus?

  88. 88
    Patricia, OM

    I sure as hell hope the ‘dead for days’ aren’t revived. I had sausage for breakfast.

  89. 89
    jtvatheist

    And, yet, many people pronounced dead for days have gone on to be revived.

    Believing someone to be dead and actually being dead are two different things. Suspended states happen in nature, (amphibians, insects, bacteria) so it’s plausible that such a thing could happen in people, given the right circumstances. But that’s not a miraculous thing. It’s a just-so thing, if and when it does happen. Because the body would be operating naturally, within the realm of the real.

    Stop shooting yourself in the foot every time you post! The laughter is unbearable.

    No, I didn’t say that exactly: By first century standards it was a miracle. But it would not have been remarkable in the 24th century.

    And by twenty-first century standards, they’re both fairy tales. What.

  90. 90
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Patricia, has there been a Star Trek episode in which the sausage fights back.

    If not, you are safe.

  91. 91
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    And, yet, many people pronounced dead for days have gone on to be revived.

    Citation -fucking- needed.

    Difficulty: Jesus and Lazarus don’t count.

    No, I didn’t say that exactly: By first century standards it was a miracle. But it would not have been remarkable in the 24th century.

    First off, it’s clear that you have no idea when science fiction is. Maybe, Roddenberry’s version of resurrecting people doesn’t seem so fantastic because it has been a story-telling trope since the beginning of time.

    Also, if God isn’t involved, it doesn’t matter if something seems miraculous, it isn’t. So, no, you don’t believe in miracles, sorry.

  92. 92
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    No one show The Princess Bride to yec123. Just imagine what yec123 would make of being mostly dead.

  93. 93
    Inaji

    Janine:

    If Richard Nixon could be a major supporting character, why not a Jarhead Jesus?

    Oh yes. Nixon, Earth president and headless Agnew’s replacement, Jarhead Jesus. Actually, it would be fun to assign Jarhead Jesus to Zapp Brannigan.

    Historical Document (Futurama) TruFax: The second coming of Jesus will take place in 2443. Tapes of television shows will be destroyed.

  94. 94
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Janine:

    If Richard Nixon could be a major supporting character, why not a Jarhead Jesus?

    Also, the cast of Star Trek.

    Maybe I should move on to Space Pope jokes.

  95. 95
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    WELSHY!!!

  96. 96
    feralboy12

    But it would not have been remarkable in the 24th century.

    All together now:

    WERE YOU THERE?

  97. 97
    Inaji

    Moar Historical Document TruFax:

    Zombie Jesus
    Info: Zombie Jesus has not been seen, but is often mentioned by The Professor. Jesus’ second coming was in 2443. He is featured in The Story of Xmas
    Quote – Fry: I feel like I was mauled by Jesus.

    Regular Jesus
    Info: The standard Christian version of Jesus apparently exists alongside (but likely separate from) the zombie version. People in the future know enough about him that they recognize Zoidberg’s Jesus costume as such (and don’t call him “Zombie Jesus”). It is unclear what role the figure of Regular Jesus plays in modern religion, however.
    Quote – Zoidberg (as Jesus): [Running away] I help those who help themselves!

    Robot Jesus
    Robot Jesus, the Robotic version of Jesus, is presumably believed to be the Messiah by some religion, such as Robotology. Robot Judaism, however, only acknowledges his existence and his very good programming
    Fry: So what’s the deal? You guys don’t believe in Robot Jesus?
    Rab-Bot: We believe he was built and that he was a very well programmed Robot. But he wasn’t our Messiah.

  98. 98
    yec123

    I am amazed. You atheists are so pessimistic about the future progress of science. I thought you were supposed to be pro-science, but it seems you have serious doubts. What little faith you have in the power of knowledge!

    I think this discussion shows the profound difference between theists and atheists. The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves.

  99. 99
    Cipher

    The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves. fiction.

    FTFY again.

  100. 100
    Aratina Cage

    Patricia, has there been a Star Trek episode in which the sausage fights back.

    If not, you are safe. –Janine

    I’ve been laughing at that for a few minutes now. And I think Patricia might be safe…

  101. 101
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Seriously, how does yec know what’s going to happen in the 24th century?

    Although… in Mass Effect, Shepard was resurrected after being dead for two years. The first game takes place in 2183– maybe Rodenberry was wrong and we’re even closer to resurrecting people than he thought!

  102. 102
    Cipher

    This is the best thread and the best godbot ever. Someone introduce hir to Twilight.

  103. 103
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I think this discussion shows the profound difference between theists and atheists. The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves.

    Because none of us is convinced that Star Trek proves the resurrection does not mean the none of us believe in anything.

    For example, I believe that you are a fool.

  104. 104
    Patricia, OM

    what little faith you have…

    is about to make my sausages revolve.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    feralboy12

    “Bring me the head of John the Baptist! It’s in the tank next to the one with the head of Ted Williams!”

  107. 107
    Aratina Cage

    @Grumps

    I’ve come back to life after binges that caused at least 48 hours unconsciousness, followed by an 18 hour hangover.

    Maybe he was just the Hungover Jesus, or perhaps the Fuck-I’ll-Never-Do-That-Again-Again Jesus.

    Oh, hey, great minds and all that, Ms. Daisy Cutter just posted a LOLJesus photo of that in the TET (linky). Doesn’t seem particularly miraculous at all. Amazing 24the cenchurie tekknowlohjee, i’n’t it?

  108. 108
    Grumps

    OK yec, back to the point. Was the resurrection a miracle?

  109. 109
    Inaji

    atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves.

    :looks down, pats self, yep, all here:

    In reality, I definitely exist.

  110. 110
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    I am amazed. You atheists are so pessimistic about the future progress of science.

    No, it’s just that most of us aren’t so stupid as to think we can predict the future. Even if we’re talking about your crush Gene Roddenberry, there’s no evidence that he thought he was predicting the future– he knew that he was writing fiction.

    I think this discussion shows the profound difference between theists and atheists. The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves.

    *yawn*

    Listen, you don’t believe in miracles, which is kind of one of the tenants of your fucking faith. Why should I listen to you about anything when it comes to religion?

    Here’s the deal: I can tell fiction from reality. You, obviously, cannot. I understand the difference between mythology/fairy tales/fiction and history. You, on the other hand, are too fucking stupid to be able to distinguish between fantasy and reality.

  111. 111
    Inaji

    The former believe any old shit at all

    Fixed that for ya. Cupcake, you believe a television show is real. Brain. Broken. Badly.

  112. 112
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Wait, let me test something.

    The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves.

    I can has Comic Sans! *dance dance dance!*

    I’m with Caine: I patted myself down and, yup, I exist. I then asked Mr Darkheart if I exist and (after he gave me a strange look), he told me that I do.

    Huzzah!

  113. 113
    Inaji

    Audley:

    I’m with Caine: I patted myself down and, yup, I exist. I then asked Mr Darkheart if I exist and (after he gave me a strange look), he told me that I do.

    That’s good news for that baby you’re bakin’. Oh my yes.

  114. 114
    Aratina Cage

    I think this discussion shows the profound difference between theists and atheists. The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything –yec123

    And if all things are possible, then you admit you believe that it is possible that Jesus and God et al don’t exist. You don’t even believe what you are saying! And we are the ones with a problem?

  115. 115
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Caine:

    That’s good news for that baby you’re bakin’. Oh my yes.

    Otherwise, it’d just be hovering over the couch, not attached to (or incubating inside) anybody. And, let’s face it, that would be kind of gross.

    Hey, now! We just came up with hovering fetuses, so they must exist, right? We need to find a way to make this happen!

  116. 116
    Patricia, OM

    *dance dance dance*

    Hot damn!

    TWIRLING!

  117. 117
    Zinc Avenger (Sarcasm Tags 3.0 Compliant)

    I have good news. I patted myself down and then I got Mrs Avenger to pat me down too. Then I patted her down. Not only did we come to the conclusion that we both exist, we had a lot of fun doing it!

  118. 118
    Lynna, OM

    Even if I did believe that all things are possible, I would not believe that all things are probable.

  119. 119
    Patricia, OM

    Wait, wasn’t the holy ghost in charge of hovering fetuses?

  120. 120
    Inaji

    Audley:

    Hey, now! We just came up with hovering fetuses, so they must exist, right? We need to find a way to make this happen!

    Gaaaaah! No, please, no!

  121. 121
    Patricia, OM

    Maybe she ment Hoovering fetuses.

  122. 122
    Inaji

    Zinc Avenger:

    Not only did we come to the conclusion that we both exist, we had a lot of fun doing it!

    :Takes deep breath: I’ll have Mister pat me down when he gets home tonight. Then I’ll pat him down. If it’s gotta be done, it’s gotta be done.

  123. 123
    Inaji

    Patricia:

    Maybe she ment Hoovering fetuses.

    Oh, okay. That would be fine, I’m sure, especially as that god of yec’s approves of having slaves.

  124. 124
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Oh, this is good fun. I’m liking the stricter quality control on troll admission. One small quibble, though, yec123: when people like you write it, the word is spelled athiest. Do better.

  125. 125
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Also Meyers.

  126. 126
    Nick Gotts

    It’s clear yec123 is an all-purpose idiot, completely unable to tell fact from fiction even outside his supposed religion.

  127. 127
    Lynna, OM

    Hovering fetuses, hoovering fetuses, Halloween fetuses.

    All different from hallowing fetuses. And therefore, more fun.

  128. 128
    kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith

    And, yet, many people pronounced dead for days have gone on to be revived.

    WHEN ?!?

    WHERE ???

    Oh dear, and I’ve still not prepared for zombie apocalypse yet. Damn internet. Damn Minecraft.

    DAMN YOU ALL !!!1!!1!!1!!

    I think this discussion shows the profound difference between theists and atheists. The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything – not even themselves.

    Not quite.

    Xians sit on their asses and believe the shit out of things. They call that useless activity “praying”.

    What you fail to realise is that things don’t happen ’cause you believe in them, but because we who don’t “believe in things” get off our asses and spend our time solving the problems, which, as opposed to prayer, actually works.

    Dumbass.

  129. 129
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Will The Fetus Be Aborted-Mojo Nixon & Jello Biafra

  130. 130
    Patricia, OM

    yec123 is an all-purpose idiot

    That has a certain ring to it. ;)

  131. 131
    yec123

    It’s clear yec123 is an all-purpose idiot, completely unable to tell fact from fiction even outside his supposed religion.

    And, yet, atheists read fiction like the “Selfish Gene”, the “Blind Watchmaker”, and all of the Isaac Asimov collection, as if it were factually sound. Don’t be such a hypocritical little turdster-atheist.

    I think it is pretty “miraculous” that a newt can regenerate its own eye when it is surgically removed. But when Jesus gave sight back to a blind man, you laugh out loud and think it is nonsense.

  132. 132
    Amphiox

    And, yet, many people pronounced dead for days have gone on to be revived.

    Ah. Now we can the words “people”, “dead”, “days”, and “revived” to the growing list of the words our troll does not understand.

    I think this discussion shows the profound difference between theists and atheists. The former believe that all things really are possible whereas the atheists don’t believe in anything

    As well as “profound”, “atheist”, “things”, “possible”, and “in”.

  133. 133
    Lynna, OM

    Josh:

    Also Meyers.

    There are lots of true believers posting below the SL Tribune article who are adhering to the spelling protocols of the Slobbering Idiots group.

    Example:

    So, Meyers believes in “community” as long as everyone in his community thinks and believes the way he does. That’s just what Hitler proposed. Categorize all those who think differently as weirdos, nut jobs and undesirables, then blame all of your current problems on them, then finally, get rid of them one way or another.

  134. 134
    Amphiox

    And, yet, atheists read fiction like the “Selfish Gene”, the “Blind Watchmaker”, and all of the Isaac Asimov collection, as if it were factually sound.

    As well as “fiction”, “factually”, “sound”, and “read”.

  135. 135
    Patricia, OM

    Yeek! Some unsaved bastard has started a lawn mower .

    Oh, noes…

    *Grabs gloves*

  136. 136
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    I think it is pretty “miraculous” that a newt can regenerate its own eye when it is surgically removed. But when Jesus gave sight back to a blind man, you laugh out loud and think it is nonsense.

    Not that this means shit to you but there is a huge difference. The newt has been seen regrowing limbs and tail. No one has seen Jesus give sight, that is a hearsay story.

    Also, please point out the fiction that Dawkins has written. And you do know that Isaac Asimov was a prolific writer of both fiction and non-fiction works.

  137. 137
    Aratina Cage

    Round 1, Topic: The Resurrection

    YEC_Troll: 0, Weapon: Star Trek The Next Generation.

    Gnus: 1, Weapon: Reality; we felt ourselves and others, proving we exist to ourselves and others.

  138. 138
    anchor

    Star Trek?

    Gene Roddenberry as visionary?

    A religious trekkie attempting to demonstrate a point with the lowest level hackneyed science fiction?

    Crap like this sustains a thread?

    Give me a break.

  139. 139
  140. 140
    Inaji

    And, yet, atheists read fiction like the “Selfish Gene”, the “Blind Watchmaker”, and all of the Isaac Asimov collection

    Cupcake, you’re mixing up fact and fiction again. I get that you really, really, really want SciFi to be real. That doesn’t make it so.

    Honestly, there’s no way to possibly conduct any sort of conversation with you until you manage to work out that line between fiction and non-fiction.

    Do you think Carl Sagan’s Demon Haunted World and Contact are both fiction or both non-fiction? Hint: this is a tricksy question.

  141. 141
    Lynna, OM

    Pharyngula pick-up line: Let me feel you up to see if you are real.

    YEC’s pick-up line: Star Trek provides a profound proof-of-concept for the resurrection of Jesus.

    (Don’t forget to use “profound” as part of your YEC pick-up line. It only works if you include “profound.’)

  142. 142
    Inaji

    anchor:

    Crap like this sustains a thread?

    Give me a break.

    Hey, it’s Lich Day! Stop harshing our fun. You don’t like it, there are other threads, ya know.

  143. 143
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Oh, Caine, you know that yec123 cannot tell the difference.

    I think I want to see Jody Foster star in a film adaptation of Demon Haunter World.

  144. 144
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Profoundly idiotic?

    Does that work?

  145. 145
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    What is regarded as “miraculous” or “magical” today is just the routine science of tomorrow. There’s another miracle Star Trek technology can make seem mundane: turning water into wine. The standard food replicator can easily achieve this feat. Jesus was just ahead of his time.

    So in 500 years, what Jesus did will no longer be considered a miracle by anyone? Cool.

    Of course, you are also explaining why many here are atheists — there are natural explanations for almost everything in the bible (well, aside from the outright lies (pi, bats, geography, history)) and what is not explicable makes no sense.

    And, yet, many people pronounced dead for days have gone on to be revived.

    Citations on that one.

    No, I didn’t say that exactly: By first century standards it was a miracle. But it would not have been remarkable in the 24th century.

    By first century standards, the sun coming up each day was a miracle. So was the diversity of life. And seasons, disease, genetics, geology, thunder, lightning, fossils, fish reproduction, etc. That has all been explained by science. Claiming that Jesus had science unavailable to us today claims that it was not a miracle.

    You atheists are so pessimistic about the future progress of science.

    No. We accept the scientific method as the best available way to exand our corpus of knowledge. To assume that everything worth knowing is a bunch of goatherder’s myths from eons ago? Now that is pessimism. After all, the Young Earth Creationists keep claiming that all life is actually devolving — that is why we no longer live as long as Noah!

  146. 146
    Cipher

    yec, truly. Are you seriously under the impression that anyone here thinks Star Trek is non-fiction? “The Last Question”? “I, Robot”? Do you actually think that atheists take these works as prophecies of things to come, rather than creative fiction based on imaginative guesses about possibilities? What has possibly led you to think that?

  147. 147
    Cipher

    Janine, he happens to be genuinely self-absorbed and deeply shallow.

  148. 148
    anchor

    “Hey, it’s Lich Day! Stop harshing our fun. You don’t like it, there are other threads, ya know.”

    Who’s harshing?

    One may find crap thoroughly enjoyable. Within moderation, of course. Part of all the fun, if you can accept an extra dimension besides the Tedious Two.

  149. 149
    Inaji

    Lynna:

    That’s just what Hitler proposed.

    *Head drops wearily to meet desk. Thud.*

  150. 150
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Fuck off, anchor. You don’t like it, don’t fucking read or comment.

    Yes. It is that fucking easy.

    Does anyone have a chain to attach anchor to?

  151. 151
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Cassandra Caligaria, replace genuinely with profoundly and I will be happy.

  152. 152
    Inaji

    Janine:

    I think I want to see Jody Foster star in a film adaptation of Demon Haunter World.

    Ooooh, yes. Can we make it Demon World-Contact Haunter, though? We could get that actor, um, Jennifer Love Hewitt. Yeah, that’s the ticket! Touched by a Demon and all that.

  153. 153
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    And, yet, atheists read fiction like the “Selfish Gene”, the “Blind Watchmaker”,

    Except that those are not fiction. They may be incorrect, but they are based on research that accurately reflects reality.

    But when Jesus gave sight back to a blind man, you laugh out loud and think it is nonsense.

    People and newts are different. Their common ancestor is back ’round the Devonian (IIRC). I know they can regrow limbs (the newts, that is), so why can’t Jesus or any of your gods regrow the limb of a soldier wounded in combat?

    Who’s harshing?

    You?

    One may find crap thoroughly enjoyable.

    And you do not. So why are you here and why are you bothering to comment?

  154. 154
    Amphiox

    Crap like this sustains a thread?

    Sadly, we cannot control the quality of trolls we get to gnaw. We can only chew them as they come.

    Profoundly idiotic?

    Does that work?

    Maybe in a closed universe, where infinities wrap around to zeroes?

    Jesus was just ahead of his time.

    Jesus with a food replicator means Jesus was not god, just an advanced alien. A completely natural, evolved, alien.

    Thanks for conceding the argument. You’ll be admitting to being an atheist now? (God knows you’ve already proven by your behavior that you are not a Christian).

  155. 155
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Jesus with a food replicator means Jesus was not god, just an advanced alien. A completely natural, evolved, alien.

    For some reason, this reminds me of Arthur C. Clarke.

  156. 156
    Inaji

    Touched by a Demon and all that.

    Wait, I think I meant Demon Whisperer. Or something like that.

  157. 157
    Nutmeg

    I heard that there was a creationist in my Zombie Jesus Day basket. There is, but it’s fluffy and insubstantial. Kind of like hoping for dark chocolate and getting Peeps.

    I haz a sad.

    *sits back to wait for more gems of enlightenment from yec123*

    There have to be chocolate eggs buried in here somewhere, right?

  158. 158
    Inaji

    Nutmeg:

    There have to be chocolate eggs buried in here somewhere, right?

    I think you better get used to those peeps.

  159. 159
    anchor

    Janine, you are adorable.

    I just got through saying (in a manner of speaking, you know, using a creditable device of something called SATIRE) that the thread had become a most amusing farce. If I’m not much mistaken, anyone can see how absurd it is. I’m enjoying something immensely, joining in, and you get all uptight and hot and bothered about it.

    Worse, somebody ELSE decides to call out their mistaken impression, and an ignominious cascade of following ensues.

    I’m on YOUR side…as long as you keep your own independent council.

    RELAX, for the sake of liches (or is it lichens?) everywhere.

  160. 160
    Nick Gotts

    And, yet, atheists read fiction like the “Selfish Gene”, the “Blind Watchmaker”, and all of the Isaac Asimov collection, as if it were factually sound.

    What a fuckwit you are. You have demonstrated your comprehensive ignorance of evolutionary biology in another thread, so you are naturally unable to distinguish popular science books from fiction.

    I think it is pretty “miraculous” that a newt can regenerate its own eye when it is surgically removed. But when Jesus gave sight back to a blind man, you laugh out loud and think it is nonsense.

    You’re wrong: it’s not miraculous that a newt can regenerate its lens (I don’t know whether they can regenerate a whole eye), although it is remarkable; it’s an entirely natural process. Of course I laugh at the stupid stories about your favourite zombie, because they are nearly as fucking stupid as you are.

  161. 161
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    There have to be chocolate eggs buried in here somewhere, right?

    Far more likely to be Mule Deer droppings.

  162. 162
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Meh.

  163. 163
    yec123

    So in 500 years, what Jesus did will no longer be considered a miracle by anyone? Cool.

    Yes, I believe so. At least, it won’t seem so spectacular in the 24 century. But Jesus achieved his “miracles” without the aid of any equipment. He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind. I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis”. Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

  164. 164
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Crank magnet.

  165. 165
    Cipher

    Janine, you are adorable.

    anchor, you’re an asshole.
    I didn’t give a fuck about what you said earlier, but you can fuck off with this condescending shit.

  166. 166
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    I’m on YOUR side…as long as you keep your own independent council.

    There are conditions for you to be on ‘our’ side? So you are claiming atheism is a religion?

    Are you here for anything, anchor, or just casting your net into the sea of webs to, well, y’know.

  167. 167
    yec123

    You’re wrong: it’s not miraculous that a newt can regenerate its lens (I don’t know whether they can regenerate a whole eye), although it is remarkable; it’s an entirely natural process.

    Er…I think you’ll find that scientists don’t understand how the newt does it, especially as the new lens emerges from the edge of the iris and not from the epidermis, as happens during ontogeny.

  168. 168
    Nutmeg

    yec123:

    He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind. I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis”. Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    Look, I know you’d like it if science fiction was true. I’ve enjoyed my share of Anne McCaffrey novels too.

    But, really, citation needed.

  169. 169
    Ze Madmax

    yec123 @ #163:

    Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    Just to double check: You are aware that X-Men is also a work of fiction, right?

  170. 170
    Inaji

    anchor:

    RELAX, for the sake of liches (or is it lichens?) everywhere.

    Telling people to “relax”, “chill”, “chillax” or “calm down” is a guaranteed way to invite a decaying porcupine.

    You’re the Cupcake who decided to take a shit in the thread and you obviously think you have great skillz in satire and humour. Here’s a clue: you don’t.

    So, plaster a “learn the first rule of holes” sticker on your hands and retire from the keyboard. IOW, shut the fuck up.

  171. 171
    Amphiox

    But when Jesus gave sight back to a blind man, you laugh out loud and think it is nonsense.

    No we don’t. We don’t think about it at all, one way or another.

    We’d have to actually believe that Jesus existed and was divine before we can think one way or another about it.

  172. 172
    Ogvorbis: Still failing at being human.

    But Jesus achieved his “miracles” without the aid of any equipment. He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind.

    And you can prove that this happened? You have evidence?

    I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis”. Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    There are a shitload of things that the US Military investigated. And closed the book on them.

    So you’ve gone from ‘Star Trek’ therefore Jesus to the US Military therefore Jesus?

    Yeah. Good luck with that.

  173. 173
    Cipher

    Er…I think you’ll find that scientists don’t understand how the newt does it

    I think you’ll find that even if that’s true, this is in no way a refutation of it being a natural process.

  174. 174
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind. I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis.”

    Shorter you: He said ooga-booga.

  175. 175
    Inaji

    He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind. I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis”. Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    FFS, I think it’s a rapturoid. They actually believe this sort of shit too, they have whole threads on it.

    Hey, yec! *Duck* We’re sending in the black helicopters. Our soldiers can shoot evil atheist rays from their eyes. Maybe you should head to the cellar and don’t forget your tinfoil beanie.

  176. 176
    Aratina Cage

    the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not

    Oh my… Get out our ray guns. We got one!

  177. 177
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    yec123, I watched a documentary last night you might be interested in.

  178. 178
    Inaji

    Josh:

    I watched a documentary last night you might be interested in.

    Oh, that’s gonna help.

  179. 179
    Amphiox

    Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis.

    Ah yes, the military remote viewing program. The program with the unbroken, perfect record of total failure.

    You do realize, I hope, that the main reason the US military does it is because they deliberately wanted Soviet spies to think they were doing it. The whole thing was a Cold War mind screw for the benefit of the Soviets.

    Er…I think you’ll find that scientists don’t understand how the newt does it, especially as the new lens emerges from the edge of the iris and not from the epidermis, as happens during ontogeny.

    So there are stem cells in the Newt iris. That’s supposed to evidence for something supernatural?

    So scientists don’t yet know all the exact details of the complete mechanism by which it happens.

    That’s a mighty thin gap to stuff anything into, there.

  180. 180
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    Hee-hee-hee.

    /Bender

  181. 181
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Josh, you just might lead yec123 to The Night Stalker.

  182. 182
    anchor

    “Sadly, we cannot control the quality of trolls we get to gnaw. We can only chew them as they come.”

    Indeed. In this case it is an enjoyable gnaw-toy…but there is much harsher hide that breaks teeth and jaw, and there is no way to fix it:

    Ogvorbis (no relation to the Ogg family) says:

    Who’s harshing?

    You?

    One may find crap thoroughly enjoyable.

    And you do not. So why are you here and why are you bothering to comment?

    -

    Man oh man.

    Incredible.

    Ok. Fine. As you like.

    =GONE=

  183. 183
    Amphiox

    At any rate, a newt regenerating a newt eye is nothing remarkable. Interesting, but not remarkable. All the genes necessary for producing a newt eye are in every single newt cell, after all.

    Now, a newt regenerating a SQUID eye, not THAT would be remarkable.

  184. 184
    raven

    He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind.

    Don’t worry. Nothing from a deity can get through tinfoil hats.

  185. 185
    Eurasian magpie

    So yec123, are you the kind of guy who stares at goats or do you prefer to set them on fire?

  186. 186
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Young Earth Creations Who Stare At Goats

  187. 187
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    PJ!!!

  188. 188
    Inaji

    Amphiox:

    Now, a newt regenerating a SQUID eye, not THAT would be remarkable.

    Actually, Jesus or God the Monster regenerating an amputee’s lost limb would be remarkable.

  189. 189
    Nick Gotts

    Er…I think you’ll find that scientists don’t understand how the newt does it, especially as the new lens emerges from the edge of the iris and not from the epidermis, as happens during ontogeny. – yec123

    Er… are you suggesting that it is not a natural process? If so, on what evidence?

    Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    Bwaw-haw-hawwww! We’ve got a live one here, folks. Yecch, I suggest you read Jon Ronson’s The Men Who Stare At Goats. Yes, there were fools inside the US military who wasted time and money on “parapsychological” hooey, but if it worked, why did Obama have to send the Navy Seals with helicopters and guns to kill Osama bin Laden? Why not just recruit some agents with paranormal powers to do the job?

  190. 190
    anchor

    “You’re the Cupcake who decided to take a shit in the thread and you obviously think you have great skillz in satire and humour. Here’s a clue: you don’t.”

    wow

    struck to the heart

    alright you win

    sorry to have responded again. no more

  191. 191
    Lynna, OM

    I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis”

    Oh how I adore it when there is a correct term.

    That makes it all better … and more likely to be true do those correct terms.

  192. 192
    Nick Gotts

    You do realize, I hope, that the main reason the US military does it is because they deliberately wanted Soviet spies to think they were doing it. The whole thing was a Cold War mind screw for the benefit of the Soviets. – Amphiox

    Really? Evidence? I think “military intelligence”, that well-known oxymoron, is an adequate explanation.

  193. 193
    yec123

    At any rate, a newt regenerating a newt eye is nothing remarkable. Interesting, but not remarkable. All the genes necessary for producing a newt eye are in every single newt cell, after all.

    Tell me, where in the genome of the newt are the instructions “when crazy human plucks out lens of eye, make new lens from out of the edge of the iris.” I’d like to know.

    Of course, flatworms are even more remarkable. You can cut them into little pieces and each will form a new flatworm. So, the practice of regeneration was in place long before Jesus.

  194. 194
    carlie

    Oh, silly anchor. You didn’t even last 10 minutes after your flounce before posting again. You have to learn to make these things stick.

  195. 195
    Amphiox

    Really? Evidence? I think “military intelligence”, that well-known oxymoron, is an adequate explanation.

    From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing

    When the US intelligence community learned that the USSR and China were conducting ESP research, it became receptive to the idea of having its own competing psi research program. (Schnabel 1997)

    So I was little off in my first quote. Actually, the primary motivation for the US program was because they heard about the Soviets and Chinese were doing it.

    Also, the program was terminated since it, surprise, surprise, didn’t work.

  196. 196
    Nutmeg

    Flatworm regeneration

    More flatworm regeneration

    Surprisingly, it’s not proof of Jesus.

    If you used your brain, you might be able to reason that similar processes are involved in newt eye regeneration. Stem cells, not magic.

  197. 197
    Amphiox

    Tell me, where in the genome of the newt are the instructions “when crazy human plucks out lens of eye, make new lens from out of the edge of the iris.” I’d like to know.

    Once again yech betrays its ignorance of how genetic regulation works. It’s simply a matter of turning on the same genetic program that produced the eye in the first place during embryogenesis, in response to signals released during the injury that destroys the old lens. And THAT part’s just an elaboration of regular wound healing. The location of the stem cells that initiate the process being in the iris instead of the epidermis is just a detail.

    Of course, flatworms are even more remarkable. You can cut them into little pieces and each will form a new flatworm. So, the practice of regeneration was in place long before Jesus.

    In other words, flatworm cells are more capable of dedifferentiation and redifferentiation than human cells. Flatworms are MORE LIKE SPONGES, and hence, MORE LIKE UNICELLULAR ORGANISMS, than human cells. Flatworms are a TRANSITIONAL FORM between very primitive, non-committed metazoans like sponges, and more derived, highly committed metazoans, like mammals.

    It’s nice to see yech conceding the point it spent an entire other thread arguing against. It means it is actually capable of learning something!

    Remarkable!

  198. 198
    Inaji

    Nutmeg:

    Surprisingly, it’s not proof of Jesus.

    Is too! See, there’s Flatworm Jesus and…

  199. 199
    Inaji

    when crazy human plucks out lens of eye

    You torture newts? What in the fuck is wrong with you?

  200. 200
    Amphiox

    Regeneration = wound healing.

    Literally. The two are the same process. There is absolutely nothing remarkable or miraculous about it.

    In fact, the remarkable thing is actually why in god’s name we mammals CAN’T regenerate? Why has our wound healing ability been nerfed beyond the “regrow some lost skin layers” stage, and stopped from going further? Because that is literally what happens. The process is ACTIVELY INHIBITED. It’s not that we don’t have the genetic programs for full regeneration, we actually have them, inherited from the common ancestor we share with the newts (And actively USED during embryogenesis, a mammalian embryo that has a limb amputated early enough during embryogenesis will actually regrow the whole limb and be born completely intact). But those programs are ACTIVELY TURNED OFF “prematurely”, some time before birth.

    Really, it wouldn’t have been a miracle for a human amputee to regrow a lost limb, if there hadn’t already been REVERSE-MIRACLE (malevocle?) that stopped mammals from regrowing lost limbs in the first place.

    So what malevolent designer TOOK IT AWAY FROM US?

  201. 201
    Patricia, OM

    He’d better not torture newts! Spanking Louis is my job.

    *back to the lawn*

  202. 202
    Inaji

    Amphiox:

    (malevocle?)

    Shiny.

  203. 203
    yec123

    Once again yech betrays its ignorance of how genetic regulation works. It’s simply a matter of turning on the same genetic program that produced the eye in the first place during embryogenesis, in response to signals released during the injury that destroys the old lens. And THAT part’s just an elaboration of regular wound healing. The location of the stem cells that initiate the process being in the iris instead of the epidermis is just a detail.

    No, you are simply ignorant about lens development in newts. I suggest you read this excellent paper on the subject:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2556859/pdf/nihms68624.pdf

    In short, you are wrong. The lens is observed to regenerate out of the dorsal iris, whereas it emerges from the skin during ontogeny. So it can’t be the same genetic program being invoked as it involves different tissue and a different developmental path.

    Flatworms are MORE LIKE SPONGES, and hence, MORE LIKE UNICELLULAR ORGANISMS, than human cells. Flatworms are a TRANSITIONAL FORM between very primitive, non-committed metazoans like sponges, and more derived, highly committed metazoans, like mammals.

    Nope. Flatworms are true multicellular organisms. However, being invertebrates, they are naturally more flexible and have less specialized cell types. The process of generating a new flatworm from the tissue of another is similar to how a human can regenerate a new liver. In any case, planarian regeneration is remarkable. They are expert at cloning themselves.

  204. 204
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Yech123, are you a fan of Insane Clown Posse, by any chance?

    Lynna:

    Hovering fetuses, hoovering fetuses, Halloween fetuses.

    All different from hallowing fetuses. And therefore, more fun.

    What about hollowed fetuses? Because I could always shellac one, then put it out in the garden to attractively conceal an extra set of keys for visitors.

    Anchor, this is a lot more fun than yelling at misogynist fuckstains. Nobody’s keeping you here.

    Caine:

    See, there’s Flatworm Jesus and…

    Flatworm Jeeesus,
    Flatworm Jeeeeeeesus,
    Riding on the dashboard of my bowels….

    Hm. I think that needs work.

  205. 205
    Amphiox

    The lens is observed to regenerate out of the dorsal iris, whereas it emerges from the skin during ontogeny.

    So what? Both the dorsal iris and the skin are made up of cells which all have identical DNA instructions. The same genetic programs can be activated in either place.

    So it can’t be the same genetic program being invoked as it involves different tissue and a different developmental path.

    Of course it can. Your ignorance of gene regulation is showing yet again.

    Nope. Flatworms are true multicellular organisms.

    As are sponges. But they are MORE LIKE unicellular organisms than mammals are. It`s a continuum from complete unicellularity to complex multicellularity, all the way down. (And up).

    However, being invertebrates, they are naturally more flexible and have less specialized cell types.

    In other words, LESS DIFFERENTIATED. LESS COMMITTED TO BEING DIFFERENTIATED. In other words, MORE LIKE AN INDEPENDENT UNICELLULAR ORGANISM.

    In other words, a TRANSITIONAL FORM, demonstrating the evolution cell differentiation.

    Thanks for conceding the argument, again.

    The process of generating a new flatworm from the tissue of another is similar to how a human can regenerate a new liver. In any case, planarian regeneration is remarkable. They are expert at cloning themselves.

    BOTH of which are part of the same continuum, which on one end lies the completely independent single cell, and the single celled zygote that is the beginning of the life cycle of every multicellular organism, and on the other end lies the terminally differentiated cell types that have almost never de-differentiate, like neurons.

    It’s ALL a continuum, all the way down.

    So thanks for bringing up the human liver cell, YET ANOTHER EXAMPLE of how multicellular organisms, even highly derived ones like humans, lie on the same continuum with single celled organisms.

    Thanks again, for conceding the argument.

  206. 206
    Inaji

    Janine:

    Flatworm Jeeesus,
    Flatworm Jeeeeeeesus,
    Riding on the dashboard of my bowels….

    No, no, that’s Tapeworm Jesus!

  207. 207
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Let me see if I understand this, Jesus is like an intestinal parasite.

  208. 208
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Caine, that was not me. It was Ms. Daisy Cutter.

  209. 209
    Inaji

    Janine:

    What about hollowed fetuses? Because I could always shellac one, then put it out in the garden to attractively conceal an extra set of keys for visitors.

    Uh oh. You realize this reveals that you are part of the Matriarchal Heathen Whorde™, right?

  210. 210
    Inaji

    Janine:

    Caine, that was not me. It was Ms. Daisy Cutter.

    Ooops, apologies to you both and apologies for #209, too. Sorry, Daisy!

  211. 211
    Inaji

    Janine:

    Let me see if I understand this, Jesus is like an intestinal parasite.

    Yes. Now, if an evil atheist gets a direct look at you, the evil atheist rays suck the Jesus right out and vaporizes him.

  212. 212
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    1) The Men Who Stare At Goats was a fictionalized account of the remote viewing program. I think you may be confusing reality and fantasy again.
    2) The program was a complete failure, anyway.

  213. 213
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Me @ 212:
    The movie was a fictionalized account. I haven’t read the book.

  214. 214
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Caine:

    Hey, now! We just came up with hovering fetuses, so they must exist, right? We need to find a way to make this happen!

    Gaaaaah! No, please, no!

    Hey, it would be a hell of a lot easier on me, rather than carrying this thing around all the time. :p

  215. 215
    kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith

    Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    That doesn’t speak well of the US army’s top scientists.

    The nazis too were deluded into pointless and rather cruel research about so-called “paranormal” powers. Doesn’t help our opinion of their intellectual qualities either.

    I must admit I don’t have a very high opinion of the army’s research programs after having read a bit about how they conducted that on the atomic bomb, and how very close to complete disaster they came, several times out of sheer stupidity.

  216. 216
    Anri

    Wow, I figured after getting schooled so heavily in the other thread, yec would have bailed – but no, here we are, Adventures with Herpy Derpy, Episode II!

    He could manipulate matter and energy simply using his mind. I think the correct technical term is “psychopoeisis”. Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    And the raging success they had with these programs is why current US Army kit does not include a rifle, radio or flashlight.

    Oh, wait…

    Tell me, where in the genome of the newt are the instructions “when crazy human plucks out lens of eye, make new lens from out of the edge of the iris.” I’d like to know.

    In the bits that code protein signalers to replicate stem cells at the site of optical damage, from whatever source.
    Next?

    Of course, flatworms are even more remarkable. You can cut them into little pieces and each will form a new flatworm. So, the practice of regeneration was in place long before Jesus.

    Which demonstrates exactly that Jesus is not required for flatworm regeneration… so: well spotted (?)

    I mean, ten full points for noticing something true, but minus about 15K for relevance.

  217. 217
    Ing

    Actually, the U.S military’s top scientists have long been investigating such “paranormal powers”, such as telepathy or teleopsis. They know they exist, even if atheists do not.

    And yet we still kill people with bullets and bombs and gases and poisons rather than hexes, charms, psychokenesis and conjured demons.

  218. 218
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    Ing:

    And yet we still kill people with bullets and bombs and gases and poisons rather than hexes, charms, psychokenesis and conjured demons.

    Didn’t you know that the unmanned drones are flown by telekinesis?

    Jeez Ing, it’s like you’ve been watching too much Star Trek (where they still have to physically manipulate the ship’s controls) or something.

  219. 219
    feralboy12

    when crazy human plucks out lens of eye

    Hey, Jesus told me to. Fucking thing offended me.

  220. 220
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    I’m quite flattered to be mistaken for Janine! But, actually, schistosomiasis is caused by blood flukes, which are flatworms. So, either Tapeworm Jesus or Flatworm Jesus works.

    The idea of hovering fetuses suggests that the ol’ I WANT TO BELIEVE macro needs an update. (Too lazy to open GIMP, sorry)

  221. 221
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    I went Googling.

    I never want to see this video again:

    http://www.jove.com/video/2713/a-system-for-culturing-iris-pigment-epithelial-cells-to-study-lens-regeneration-in-newt

    (Or re-hear the word “centrifugation”.)

    Um, biologists, could you keep it to yourselves? I’ll take the advances in medical science, which are awesome, it’s just, per Bismarck, I don’t want to know how the sausage is made. Thanks in advance!

  222. 222
    Ing

    Specifically the Schistosome blood fluke :-p

    A fascinating species if only because they’re flatworms that pair bond for life. One literally moves into the body of the other.

  223. 223
    Inaji

    cm:

    Um, biologists, could you keep it to yourselves?

    They were. You’re the one who went looking.

  224. 224
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    Now, now.

    I went looking.

    They posted videos on the internet. Of newt dissections.

    [meta: Where's David Marjanovic when you need him?]

  225. 225
    'Tis Himself

    Because something is possible in the fictional 24th Century, Jesus was resurrected 2000 years ago. That makes perfect sense.

    <goes back to staring at goats>

  226. 226
    Patricia, OM

    Wait, I thought it was

    Star Trek/newt abuse=jesus

  227. 227
    Inaji

    Patricia:

    Star Trek/newt abuse=jesus

    I think we’re now at:

    Star Trek/newt abuse/military/psychopoeisis/flatworm = Jesus.

    I think.

  228. 228
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Star Trek/newt abuse=jesus

    Would this mean the the Voyager episode Threshold is biblical canon.

    (I am not a Trekkie. I had to look up the title.)

  229. 229
    Ing

    @Janine

    Well played

  230. 230
    yec123

    So what? Both the dorsal iris and the skin are made up of cells which all have identical DNA instructions. The same genetic programs can be activated in either place.

    I am flagging this comment as an example of ignorance in science. Let me try and elucidate for the benefit of the atheists here:

    1. Yes, all cells have exactly the same genomes and DNA.

    2. The remarkable thing about development is cell differentiation which entails cells only producing certain proteins and not others. For example, the cells in your anus do not produce light-sensitive opsins (unless, of course, the sun shines out of it).

    3. The developmental path and construction of the lens of the newt’s eye during ontogeny is entirely different from that of regeneration following amputation. In the first case, both lens and iris are developed separately out of the epidermis. The regenerative step, however, uses the same genes but they are expressed in another way. Physically, part of the dorsal iris swells and gradually assumes the shape of the lens.

    4. Hence, regeneration is remarkable because it is so different to what happens during normal morphogenesis. It shows that there is no fixed developmental program and that organic structures have the ability to self-organize and morph into different ones.

  231. 231
    'Tis Himself

    Star Trek/newt abuse/military/psychopoeisis/flatworm = Jesus.

    You’re right, silly of me.

    <goes back to staring at goats>

  232. 232
    Amphiox

    Those failed military experiments, in addition to non military work done in the1900′s, also definitively demonstrates that all the psychic stuff was not simply dismissed by science because of some bias against considering the supernatural. No, scientists were PLENTY open minded about the matter, and we know it is phooey because we actually TESTED it, and proved it to be nonexistent.

    Indeed, the science was sufficiently open on the matter that Arthur Clarke was willing to include it in Childhood’s End and consider it to be valid for hard SF.

  233. 233
    'Tis Himself

    For example, the cells in your anus do not produce light-sensitive opsins (unless, of course, the sun shines out of it).

    And you know this because the Sun shines out of your anus. Thanks for explaining.

  234. 234
    carlie

    yec, you’re contradicting yourself. Did Jesus perform miracles, or did Jesus perform sleight-of-hand based on natural processes explainable by science? Obviously the events were taken as miracles and he did not disabuse them of that notion. So was he a miracle worker or a liar?

  235. 235
    Ing

    Yec you are trying to teach biologists biology. Might I suggest you not insult us with your ignorance.

  236. 236
    Ing

    For example, the cells in your anus do not produce light-sensitive opsins

    Except of course when they do. There are forms of tumors where the growth produces hair and teeth INSIDE the body in places where such things should not develop.

  237. 237
    Inaji

    ‘Tis:

    And you know this because the Sun shines out of your anus. Thanks for explaining.

    No, The Son shines out of xis anus*. Or possibly a newt. Or a flatworm.

    *I don’t see how this is possible, however, given hir head is tightly crammed up there. Of course, it may be a miracle. Or Alien Jesus sleight of hand.

  238. 238
    'Tis Himself

    *I don’t see how this is possible, however, given hir head is tightly crammed up there.

    Of course the Sun shines out of hir anus. How else do you think xe can see the monitor and keyboard so xe can post hir silliness?

  239. 239
    Inaji

    ‘Tis:

    How else do you think xe can see the monitor and keyboard so xe can post hir silliness?

    True, true. At least I hope it’s true, otherwise xe is doing this all by touch typing. That could answer for a lot, actually.

  240. 240
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    In amongst the maelstrom, if someone could be so kind as to substitute a “ć” in #224, that would be muchly appreciated.

  241. 241
    Patricia, OM

    Poor little newt.

  242. 242
    Patricia, OM

    Are you sure it isn’t the

    Son

    shining out of his ass?

  243. 243
    'Tis Himself

    Only if it’s the 24th Century.

  244. 244
    Amphiox

    The developmental path and construction of the lens of the newt’s eye during ontogeny is entirely different from that of regeneration following amputation. In the first case, both lens and iris are developed separately out of the epidermis. The regenerative step, however, uses the same genes but they are expressed in another way.

    “Uses the same genes” = NOT “entirely different”. And so we have found YET MORE words in the english language whose meaning yech obviously does not understand.

    As for “expressed in another way”, this is vague enough that it can mean anything – a vagueness that is the hallmark of a dishonest argument.

    But at the most basic level, no. The gene expression is essentially the same. It uses the same regulatory DNA elements, activated by the same modulating signalling proteins. Even the very order of expression and level of expression of the various genes is extremely similar.

    The remarkable thing about development is cell differentiation which entails cells only producing certain proteins and not others.

    And the remarkable thing about cell differentiation is that it does not have to always be irreversible. In fact, exactly as evolutionary theory predicts, it runs the entire spectrum from completely undifferentiated, through differentiated with various degrees of ease of reversibility, to irreversibly differentiated.

    And of course, dishonest as it is, yech fails to mention that the one type of differentiated cell that has the LEAST to do with the topic it is debating, regeneration, is the irreversibly differentiated cell (which it in its blinkered binary thinking seems to think is the only kind of differentiated cell that there is). These cells aren’t involved in regeneration, except to release the “distress” signals that start off the process when they are injured and die.

    Regeneration is accomplished by stem cells. And stem cells are undifferentiated cells, whose defining characteristic is their similarity to embryonic cells, again on a continuum from pluripotent stem cells that are basically almost as flexible as the zygote itself, to more limited lineage-defined stem cells whose flexibility may be limited to a tissue type, or organ.

    Hence, regeneration is remarkable because it is so different to what happens during normal morphogenesis.

    It uses the SAME genes, the SAME regulatory DNA elements, the SAME signalling proteins, the SAME modulating genes, the SAME structural proteins, the SAME undifferentiated, semi-differentiated, and fully-differentiated cell types, performing the SAME set of functions, the SAME cascades of sequential gene expression. No matter how one looks at it, it is OBVIOUS to any honest observer that the similarities vastly outweigh, and are much more fundamental, than the differences, which are only fine details.

    It’s like saying a 1 kg steel ball painted red is fundamentally different from a 1 kg steel ball painted blue solely because of the different color of paint, and ignoring that they both have the same mass, composition, shape, and size.

  245. 245
    Alexandra (née Audley)

    yec,

    I am flagging this comment as an example of ignorance in science. Let me try and elucidate for the benefit of the atheists here:

    AH HA HA HA HA HAHAHAHA HA HA HA HA HA! HA!

    *wheeze!*
    *wipes tear!*

    I’m still not sure what the fuck you’re arguing. Care to clarify?

    1) Did Jesus perform miracles? I’m not looking for something that seemed miraculous, but actual assisted-by-God supernatural miracles.

    2) Was Jesus resurrected or was he just drunk in a cave for 3 days or whatever?
    2b) Do you have a citation for people coming back to life after 3 days? You failed to provide that.

    3) Do you understand that Star Trek isn’t going to happen?

  246. 246
    Amphiox

    The fixation on Star Trek is ironic, since of all the amazing things in that fictional universe, the ONE THING that is NOT present within it, are supernatural deities, and EVERYTHING within it has a material explanation.

  247. 247
    Inaji

    Audley:

    3) Do you understand that Star Trek isn’t going to happen?

    Does anyone else feel like they’re stuck in an ep of Duck Dodgers in the 21st and half century?

    Okay, yec – Which one of these is really real? What’s the future, man? I mean one of the myriad Jesuses told ya, right?

    Plan 9 from Outer Space
    Forbidden Planet
    Lost in Space
    Flash Gordon
    Buck Rogers
    Duck Dodgers
    Marvin the Martian
    Space 1999
    Battlestar Galactica (old one)
    Battlestar Galactica (new one)
    Star Trek TOS
    Star Trek TNG
    Star Trek DS9
    Star Trek Voyager
    Any of the Star Trek movies
    Dr. Who
    Blake’s 7
    The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Universe (I have my towel. Just in case)
    The Rocky Horror Picture Show
    Farscape
    Babylon 5
    Galaxy Quest
    Firefly
    Futurama
    Star Wars

    aaaaaaand many more. So, which is it, Cupcake?

  248. 248
    Inaji

    Amphiox:

    The fixation on Star Trek is ironic, since of all the amazing things in that fictional universe, the ONE THING that is NOT present within it, are supernatural deities,

    “What does God need with a starship?”

    Granted, God was an alien.

  249. 249
    Inaji

    aaaaaaand many more.

    Blade Runner
    Alien
    Aliens
    Alien 3
    Alien Resurrection (Hey, it’s a winner!)
    Alien vs. Predator
    Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem
    Predator
    E.T.
    Close Encounters of the Third Kind
    2001: A Space Odyssey
    Alien Nation
    Barbarella
    Avatar
    Bill & Ted’s Bogus Journey
    Buzz Lightyear
    Cloverfield
    Cocoon
    Coneheads
    Contact
    Cowboys and Aliens

    I can keep this up all the way to Z, Sugar.

  250. 250
    otrame

    “why does god need a spaceship?”. The whole awful awful movie to set up one mildly amusing punch line.

    So, have we gotten anywhere in our attempt to teach yec the difference between fiction and reality yet? No? Oh, well. Something like 75% of the people in th US have the same problem. I admit the yec is moderately entertaining, in the “I can’t believe s/he said that” category.

  251. 251
    Inaji

    Otrame:

    Oh, well. Something like 75% of the people in th US have the same problem.

    Yes. I don’t like being surrounded by that much stupid.

  252. 252
    Inaji

    Some of the reality-challenged stupid:

    (I am a vampire at a haunted house. My costume includes fangs, a cape, and of course, I am drenched in blood.)

    Teenage girl: *looking extremely mad* “What is this?! They got your costumes all wrong!”

    Me: *snarling, not dropping character* “You smell delicious…it’s so rare we get fresh victims…”

    Teenage girls: “No, no, no! Vampires drink ANIMAL blood! And why aren’t you sparkling?!”

    Me: “Your neck…it’s so…inviting—”

    Teenage girl: “This is WRONG! You aren’t real vampires!” *stomps away*

     

    (I’m helping a customer in her early teens.)

    Customer: “Hey, I’m trying to find a game for my boyfriend. Could you help me?”

    Me: “Yeah, sure. What sort of—”

    Customer: “Oh, the guy on this is hot! What’s this like?”

    Me: “Oh, that’s the new Castlevania game. Basically, it’s about killing vampires and werewolves.”

    Customer: “What!?! Why would anyone buy this?! Vampires and werewolves are cool and hot! You make me sick selling this! Haven’t you ever seen Twilight!? Vampires are like people!” *runs out of the shop with tears in her eyes*

    Me: “I feel so sorry for her boyfriend.”

     

    (Note: 40 degrees Celsius is about 104 degrees Fahrenheit.)

    Me: *on the phone* “Hi, I’ll need you to come and pick up your son right away. He’s not feeling very well.”

    Mother: “What’s wrong?”

    Me: “He’s running a 40 degree temperature.”

    Mother: “Oh. No, he’s fine. That’s normal.”

    Me: “Uh, I’m sorry?”

    Mother: “Don’t worry about him, love. That’s normal. He’s a werewolf, you know. Werewolves run hot. Didn’t you know that?”

    (It takes me a few moments, but I realize she’s perfectly serious.)

    Me: “I’m sorry, but I still think you need to take him to the doctor.”

    Mother: “Ugh, fine. I’ll come and get him, but the doctor will only say what I told you!”

     

    Customer: “I want to know what romance books are good right now. I want a really good romance, since I’m going on vacation.”

    Me: “Well, I don’t really read romance novels, but I can tell you what is popular. Have you read any Sherrilyn Kenyon?”

    Customer: “What is it? Is it like vampires or something?”

    Me: “It’s considered paranormal romance and is very popular.”

    Customer: “Well, I don’t want anything unrealistic.”

    Me: “Well, then you probably don’t want a romance novel.”

    Customer: “I want something realistic like Twilight. Do you have any books like that?”

     

    (This museum has a large Titanic exhibit. Many of the rescued survivors were brought to Halifax after the ship sank. Many of the recovered bodies of the vicitms are buried here as well. A tourist approaches me.)

    Tourist: “So, is Leonardo Di Caprio buried upstairs?”

    All from notalwaysright.com

  253. 253
    kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith

    Well, yec has succeeded in his seekreet mastermind mishun of conversion-by-science-fiction.

    I have decided to convert to the Sith.

    ’cause nothing beats throwing lightning from your fingers and choking your enemies from a distance.

    Plus, the Dark Side has cookies.

  254. 254
    Inaji

    Kemist:

    I have decided to convert to the Sith.

    Well, if we’re converting, I’m now Zoë Alleyne Washburne.

  255. 255
    Cipher

    I don’t have to convert; I’ve always been River Tam :D

  256. 256
    A. R

    kemist: I can haz lightning throwing fingers? (BTW, this doesn’t make you Darth Ratzinger’s apprentice, does it?)

  257. 257
    Inaji

    CC:

    I’ve always been River Tam

    I know. I’ll always have your back. :D

  258. 258
    Cipher

    I know. I’ll always have your back. :D

  259. 259
    Ing

    Part of the problem with not always right is that some of them seem obvious that the customer is either joking or intentionally fucking with the poor bastard.

  260. 260
    Inaji

    Perhaps some, Ing, but I don’t think that many. There’s a great deal of stupid out there, I’ve encountered it too much in the wild. I’ve actually heard some people talking about characters in books that way at the bookstore.

    I once chatted with a woman who insisted that Laurel K. Hamilton’s books were based on TruFax, ffs.

  261. 261
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    [looks a link in #252]. Caine, you really *are* a monster aren’t you? That site is like top shelf blow in a shiny, shiny golden box to someone like me who’s entire work history has been in retail. Sigh, there goes my day…..

  262. 262
    Inaji

    FossilFishy:

    Caine, you really *are* a monster aren’t you?

    I’m afraid so.

    Sigh, there goes my day…..

    Add your own stories!

  263. 263
    Amphiox

    Plus, the Dark Side has cookies.

    Are the cookies a lie?

  264. 264
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Caine #263: Oh, I think I will. Which to choose, which to choose…..

    The customer who insisted that The Bridges of Madison County was a true story? The customer who came in a couple of times a week to rearrange the horror section to her own arcane classification system? The customer who spent 10 minutes working himself up to ask for condoms and didn’t understand why I burst out laughing after telling him “We’re a book store, a USED book store.” The customer who dragged me outside to show me the black helicopters who later used a valid firearms acquisition certificate as ID when he sold the store some CD’s? The soon-to-be-ex customer I caught wanking off looking out from the store at my employee who was shoveling snow off the front walk? An employee who happened to be female, but was dressed up in so many layers of clothing that there was no way you could have told that just by looking. Nah, maybe not that last one. It’s a little too creepy even though she thought it was hilarious. Employee: “Uhm, did you see what I was wearing!?” Followed by tear inducing laughter.

    So much strangeness…

  265. 265
    Inaji

    FossilFishy:

    The customer who insisted that The Bridges of Madison County was a true story?

    This one.

    The customer who came in a couple of times a week to rearrange the horror section to her own arcane classification system?

    And this one.

    The customer who spent 10 minutes working himself up to ask for condoms and didn’t understand why I burst out laughing after telling him “We’re a book store, a USED book store.”

    And this one. All of them! Well, maybe not the wanker…

  266. 266
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Yah, now that I think about it I tell the black helicopter guy story as a condemnation of the system of firearms licensing and the failure of mental health services. It’s sad/scary rather than dumb/funny. No wanking stories though? Dammit, that’s some of my best material. The store I worked for sold porn, used porn. Dwell on that for a moment and you’ll realize that my daily crust was earned in an environment that was rife with comedic potential.

  267. 267
    Inaji

    FossilFishy:

    The store I worked for sold porn, used porn. Dwell on that for a moment and you’ll realize that my daily crust was earned in an environment that was rife with comedic potential.

    Ohhhhhhhh. Full steam ahead on the wanker stories, then!

  268. 268
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    The Wanks Of Wrath.

  269. 269
    kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith

    kemist: I can haz lightning throwing fingers? (BTW, this doesn’t make you Darth Ratzinger’s apprentice, does it?)

    Mmmm…tempting.

    Sith do have a tendancy to betray their masters in pretty horrible ways after stealing all their evil secrets.

    But no, Darth Ratzinger is a lame Darth. Covering up for kid-groping minions is a lame superpower. Evil, but lame.

    Gotta find a master with secret superpowers worth stealing and betraying for. Like, I don’t know, reanimating corpses or destroying stars or something.

  270. 270
    kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith

    Are the cookies a lie?

    No, they’re chocolate chip.

    The cake is though. Dry tasteless thing with no proper icing.

  271. 271
    Dabu

    Sounds like Richard Dawkins forgot to include the Argument from Star Trek in the list of frivolous apologia from ‘The God Delusion’ – “It happened in Star Trek, therefore God!”.

    I suspect yec123′s parents never let hir finish watching an episode of Scooby Doo.

  272. 272
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    the ONE THING that is NOT present within it, are supernatural deities

    *cough* Q *cough* ;)

  273. 273
    Ing

    Q isn’t supernatural. They are concious of and exist In more dimensions and thus are able to appear supernatural.

    The Traveler is a better example as he literally runs on Newage thought and NAMBLA pamphlets

  274. 274
    opposablethumbs

    And the Traveller eps were bollocks (Wesley, eugh) whereas Q is irresistibly snarky, more fun than disemvowelling trolls and totally has a thing going with Picard ::ducks and runs in case either of these opinions are anathema to any serious fans there may be around::

  275. 275
    Ing

    No I think everyone hates the goddamn Traveller. There’s a reason Q showed up in every franchise since and the Traveller did not.

  276. 276
    cm's changeable moniker (quaint, if not charming)

    the Q are immortal, omniscient, and omnipotent, possessing the ability of instantaneous matter-energy transformation and teleportation, as well as the ability of time travel. Their apparent abilities include moving entire asteroid belts and stars, creating alternate timelines, and affecting universal states of nature such as the gravitational constant.

    But “not supernatural”. Sheesh.

    What does a extra-dimensional have to do to get any respect round here?

  277. 277
    Ing

    The Q might as WELL be supernatural but are not. It can also be argued that inference from what the Q say indicates that they came about to their current state rather than always having been the way they are. Their powers may be technological or have started out technological and are now so intertwined with themselves that it looks like magic.

  278. 278
    Aquaria

    Not Always Right is a perpetual favorite of mine. I wish they archived their stuff, because some of it is too good to be forgotten.

    I was notorious for my snappy comebacks to customers who gave me shit when I was a postal worker. Like the guy whose SSI check didn’t come in, I’d put out all the box mail, and even checked his box to make sure he hadn’t missed it when getting his mail, so it was late or there was some other kind of holdup that I couldn’t do anything about.

    About ten minutes later, I’m emptying the collection box out by the street, and he yells at me across our crowded parking lot, “Bitch, where’s my mail?”

    Oh yeah?

    “How dare you talk to me that way! You get your sorry ass back in there, and I’ll deal with you when I’m damned good and ready.”

    This was around noon, the peak hour for our particular post office in a dicey part of town, so there were people everywhere, and they were all laughing and cheering at what I’d said. I don’t know what the idiot’s reaction was, because I went about my business, too busy for that jerkwad.

    I do remember the little old black church ladies with their pretty dresses and hats were near the front door when I went back, and they told me, “Good for you!” and “That’s right, sugar, don’t you let him talk to you that way!”

    The guy was whining to my supervisor inside. The latter told me, as he opened the door to the back for me, “Go take a break, Slugger.” And that’s all management ever said to me about it.

  279. 279
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    Re my comment at #220: http://i40.tinypic.com/3146tco.jpg

    Ing:

    A fascinating species if only because they’re flatworms that pair bond for life. One literally moves into the body of the other.

    Someone alert Hallmark. This has Valentine’s Day and wedding anniversary card potential.

    Caine

    There’s a great deal of stupid out there, I’ve encountered it too much in the wild.

    Quoted for fucking truth. And every time you think you’ve found the nadir, someone else exceeds it.

    FossilFishy:

    The store I worked for sold porn, used porn. Dwell on that for a moment and you’ll realize that my daily crust

    Uh…

  280. 280
    David Marjanović

    Newt regeneration isn’t remarkable at all. It’s just dedifferentiation and redifferentiation triggered by physical damage, and research into its details has progressed quite far. What is remarkable is that we can’t do it – but there’s already a good explanation for it:

    We have a much faster metabolism than newts. We process a lot more oxygen per time. That’s an insanely messy process*; therefore, more metabolism = more oxygen radicals = more mutations.

    When mutated cells are too strongly encouraged to divide, the cancer risk rises a lot.

    If we could regenerate as well as a newt, we’d have died out long ago. That’s strong natural selection for a heavy lid on cell division.

    (…Oh, and… we can’t regenerate 2/3 of our heart because we simply die too quickly when the bloodstream stops. Most salamanders are small enough to do serious amounts of skin-breathing, and see above on their slow metabolism that simply doesn’t need as much oxygen in the first place.)

    * Stupid Design. The water-splitting part of photosynthesis happens without any production of oxygen radicals: the two water molecules that become an oxygen molecule stay bound to the manganese atoms throughout the entire cycle. The water-generating part of respiration is… just… we dump four electrons somewhere and wait for an oxygen molecule to pick some or all of them up. *headdesk* That’s why we can’t have nice things.

  281. 281
    Ing

    Someone alert Hallmark. This has Valentine’s Day and wedding anniversary card potential.

    http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/366241/large/Z1600118-Mating_schistosome_flukes,_SEM-SPL.jpg

    D’aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!

  282. 282
  283. 283
    Ms. Daisy Cutter, General Manager for the Cleveland Steamers

    *snif* That’s so romantic!!

  284. 284
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Janine:

    The Wanks Of Wrath.

    :Snort: I’ve thought about this for a day now and I can’t come up with a better one, dammit. Definitely need more sleep.

    Ms. Daisy Cutter:

    Uh…

    I disavow any and all implications to said slip, lacy, Freudian or otherwise. :p

    David Marjanović:

    * Stupid Design. The water-splitting part of photosynthesis happens without any production of oxygen radicals: the two water molecules that become an oxygen molecule stay bound to the manganese atoms throughout the entire cycle. The water-generating part of respiration is… just… we dump four electrons somewhere and wait for an oxygen molecule to pick some or all of them up. *headdesk* That’s why we can’t have nice things.

    Can I pleaze has your brain….puleeeeezzzz! I promise not to treat it as poorly as I’ve treated my own, honest.

  285. 285
    Amphiox

    the Q are immortal, omniscient, and omnipotent

    The Q claim to be immortal, omniscient, and omnipotent.

    But we have actually seen the following:

    The Q can be killed, even against their own will. Thus, the Q are not immortal.

    The Q can be tricked and surprised. Thus, the Q are not omniscient.

    The Q can be thwarted. Thus, the Q are not omnipotent.

    Mostly, all of the above are done by other Q, but the show leaves the implication pretty clear – something wholly natural and even greater than the Q is imminently possible.

  286. 286
    Amphiox

    We have a much faster metabolism than newts. We process a lot more oxygen per time. That’s an insanely messy process*; therefore, more metabolism = more oxygen radicals = more mutations.

    When mutated cells are too strongly encouraged to divide, the cancer risk rises a lot.

    If we could regenerate as well as a newt, we’d have died out long ago. That’s strong natural selection for a heavy lid on cell division.

    Essentially, there was a selective advantage in having a faster metabolism, and losing regeneration was a side effect of that. Note that faster metabolism = faster working neurons = faster and more complex behavioral responses = decreased likelihood of being injured and needing to regenerate = decreased selective advantage to having regenerative capabilities.

    Of course, a designer with foresight to anticipate complex social support for injured individuals, (medical and nursing care being the most advanced and obvious form thereof), would have been wise to keep the regenerative capabilities around, if dormant, to be reactivated in its supposed crown-jewel-favored-species when the time was right.

    But sadly, humans are not designed.

  287. 287
    Amphiox

    And the other consequence of a faster metabolism is increased fuel requirements to fuel that metabolism.

    Your typical mammal (or bird) with a missing limb will starve to death from the inability to get food as effectively without the limb long before there is much chance to regenerate that limb. Your typical amphibian generally won’t.

    And this drops the advantage of being able to regenerate limbs, for a mammal without a social safety net, to almost zero.

    A mammal is much better served by adaptions that help it keep its limbs intact….

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