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Oct 05 2011

I get all the obsessive-compulsive kooks

Now I’m being warned to prepare for an “epic shitstorm” from some loony site because, apparently, I misrepresented Anthony Navarro, Jr. by quoting his delusions and threats at length. We’re supposed to get flooded with indignant trolls who will take me down. I haven’t seen any — at least, no more than usual — and I checked the traffic stats to see if there was an assault in progress, and nope, not even a blip. Anyway, now you’ve all got a heads-up. We might get an occasional whimper from them at some time in the future, but right now they seem to be busy enough scouring the web for derogatory comments from deranged nitwits about me (there are plenty!), and I suspect they won’t step out of their little hole in the web.

227 comments

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  1. 1
    Zeno

    So scared! Eek!

    No doubt we’re all doomed.

  2. 2
    'Tis Himself

    Will somebody please wake me up if the Navarro horde come to do battle. Perhaps there’ll be a decent troll or two among them. But probably not.

  3. 3
    John K.

    Prod the squidly hordes at your own peril.

  4. 4
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    Oh noes! *dons a tin foil hat*

  5. 5
    lofty

    If you need an antidote to kooks have a look at Australia’s latest satire show, http://www.abc.net.au/tv/hamsterwheel , (the Chaser team) having a go at all the things the media love to do badly.

  6. 6
    Sastra

    You don’t want people thinking that they can just believe whatever the fuck they want to get them through the day :: and to cope with their own mortality :: and the mortality of those they treasure … that’s why pointing and laughing is so important.

    Okay, it doesn’t relate to the Navarro issue, but I’m quoting this because this self-righteous attitude towards atheism is common — and I find it puzzling. It’s derived from the assumption that the truth of religion is of course irrelevant: all that matters is people being “allowed” to believe whatever “gets them through the day.” Militant apathy coupled with a deep underlying contempt for both believers (weak, crippled) and what they believe (irrelevant and besides the point.)

    This faux concern for people’s feelings masks I think an underlying arrogance and cavalier attitude towards facts on the part of the accuser. Which, considering that this is what PZ is being accused of, is rather ironic.

  7. 7
    echidna

    Sastra,
    I’m sorry, but I don’t get the context of the quote, and consequently I can’t figure out what you are saying. Which is a shame.

  8. 8
    Zinc Avenger

    What’s with :: the constant :: abuse of :: colons? Is it the textual :: representation of :: a tic of some :: sort?

    Or do the colons just indicate something is full of shit?

  9. 9
    Philip L

    Generally here at Fake Robot LLC :: we don’t disclose our sources … and we do whatever it takes to protect innocent family members who aren’t part of the unicorn insanity.

    Can’t wait for the lolz to begin when the “unicorn insanity” posse turn up. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

  10. 10
    Dianne

    @6: I disagree slightly with your analysis. I think the quote reads like someone who is an atheist and knows that religion is nonsense but is (condescendingly) unwilling to confront believers because they think believers are lesser beings who need delusions. Ok, so it’s probably not helpful or kind to try to convert someone who is actively dying in a way that can’t be helped, but allowing someone to waste their life trying to placate an imaginary being because confronting and changing their beliefs might be transiently uncomfortable I’m less happy with. Especially if they’re actively damaging others’ lives. I’m fine with people hanging out together on Sunday, listening to a talk about morality and discussing the contents of a book of fables, and reenacting ritual cannibalism if that makes the day enjoyable to them. I’m less fine with people lying about birth control, actively and sometimes violently opposing abortion, and telling kids they’re going to hell for talking back. When that happens, it’s time to bring out the logic and reason, even if believing in magic would be more fun.

  11. 11
    Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought

    What’s whit the constant, completely out of context, mentioning of unicorns in the post on saltyandroid? Example:

    Generally here at Fake Robot LLC :: we don’t disclose our sources … and we do whatever it takes to protect innocent family members who aren’t part of the unicorn insanity.

    It’s not like the rest makes much more sense, but those unicorns are baffling me.

  12. 12
    Monado, FCD

    I’m not giving them traffic, but maybe the references to unicorns are a hint that the site is satirical?

  13. 13
    Zeno

    What’s with :: the constant :: abuse of :: colons?

    Doubled colons used to be a standard math symbol for proportions, e.g., 1:2::8:16 (read “one is to two as eight is to sixteen”; its use is uncommon nowadays), but the use in regular text seems disproportionate.

  14. 14
    A3Kr0n

    Other than swearing like a pirate this guy makes no sense to me.

  15. 15
    Sastra

    echidna #7 wrote:

    I’m sorry, but I don’t get the context of the quote, and consequently I can’t figure out what you are saying. Which is a shame.

    It’s from the link: the writer is criticizing outspoken atheism from the standpoint that it takes comfort away from people who need it. PZ is a meanie from the get-go.

    Dianne #10 wrote:

    I think the quote reads like someone who is an atheist and knows that religion is nonsense but is (condescendingly) unwilling to confront believers because they think believers are lesser beings who need delusions.

    Yes, a faitheist could have written that quote. Yet the rest of the article (and comments) seems to assume that atheists know there’s a God but hate Him.

    Religionists want to have it both ways. Their beliefs are those of the majority and stand firm and reasonable, indicating that the believer really has their shit together and “gets” what it is to be a deep, thoughtful, and feeling human being. God exists and it really matters. People who don’t believe are wrong and deficient, possibly perverse.

    And at the same time their beliefs deserve the compassionate forbearance one gives to necessary delusions and harmless hobbies and personal tastes: it’s not about God, it’s about the right to make personal decisions. Don’t treat faith beliefs as if they should stand firm and reasonable, but don’t. Why should you care if God exists? Why does it matter? Change the subject and leave people alone.

    Wish they’d pick a horse and ride it, instead of jumping from one to the other as it suits them.

  16. 16
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I’m not giving them traffic, but maybe the references to unicorns are a hint that the site is satirical?

    Pretty sure that’s inline with the tenuous analogies and references to the Chronicles of Narnia that thinly run through that spewfest.

  17. 17
    tfkreference

    Wow, Navarro supporters and loonier-than-AIG within two posts. How deep does the inanity/insanity run?

  18. 18
    Hurin

    Oh NOEZ!!! Not teh godbots! Quick! Quick! hidez teh TUBES!!!one

  19. 19
    Monado, FCD

    Actually, I did go look and it sounds more like it’s written by the hater himself. For example, it lists PZ’s points and after
    “destroyed his business” the blogger has added “(that wasn’t me)”! So it might be the wackaloon brother himself.

  20. 20
    Dianne

    Yet the rest of the article (and comments) seems to assume that atheists know there’s a God but hate Him.

    I’ve seen this version of the argument for faith before and I think it’s a misunderstanding of the phrase “don’t believe in”. You can not believe in something as in don’t believe in its existence, i.e. “I don’t believe in the tooth fairy” or you can not believe in something as in don’t believe in its morality, i.e. “I don’t believe in war.” Atheists mean the former, believers often seem to think they mean the latter.

  21. 21
    noel

    @#8 and #13

    the coder in me keeps getting confused at his misuse of the scope resolution operator…

    to paraphrase: “You keep using that syntax. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

  22. 22
    marko

    Monado, you’ve misquoted. He actually says –

    contacts his clients and basically destroys his business = wrong {that was me!}

  23. 23
    Snowshoe The Canuck

    If the hordes of gawd-fearing loonies do appear, I hope they send their A team. The last batch of babble thumpers were definitely second tier. As my high school physics teacher said many times “I hate engaging in a battle of wits with unarmed opponents”.

  24. 24
    New England Bob

    Just tell the loony that you have an epic shitstorm every morning, but then its gone after flushing.

  25. 25
    Abelard

    Religious trolls intimidating people? Never saw that one coming.

  26. 26
    Sastra

    Dianne #20 wrote:

    I’ve seen this version of the argument for faith before and I think it’s a misunderstanding of the phrase “don’t believe in”.

    Yes — and I think the misunderstanding extends beyond theists meaning one thing and atheists meaning the other. Theists think that when it comes to faith the two different interpretations miraculously merge together and become the same thing, co-existing in unity — and yet they remain distinct. Sort of like the Trinity.

    And atheism is wrong because it’s mean. They equivocate between different interpretations of what it means to “be wrong” — and then blend them together into a harmonious whole.

  27. 27
    Scott

    Ever notice how the loonies always seem to have trouble with punctuation?

  28. 28
    Rey Fox

    What’s with :: the constant :: abuse of :: colons? Is it the textual :: representation of :: a tic of some :: sort?

    Probably. It’s their brain rebooting after every thought or fragment thereof. Ever seen those people who write huge blocks of text with ellipses everywhere there might be a period or even a comma? I always imagine them staring off into the middle distance for a few seconds at every ellipsis and then snapping back into consciousness at the next word.

  29. 29
    arakasi

    You don’t want people thinking that they can just believe whatever the fuck they want to get them through the day :: and to cope with their own mortality :: and the mortality of those they treasure … that’s why pointing and laughing is so important.

    In other words, he believes that religion is the opiate of the masses, and he’s pissed because PZ thinks that it is better to be sober

  30. 30
    G.Shelley

    It reads a little like parody, but I guess just because someone comes across as stupid, self obsessed and ignorant doesn’t mean they aren’t serious.

    I wonder if PZ feels shame that hie is using the success of Science Blogs to start his own network using the name of one of their blogs?

  31. 31
    Philip L

    As I scrolled down that page of meandering babble my expectations rose that I might come across a quote from Silence of the Lambs, or something equally disturbing with confused ideas of tenses or gender.

    it runs the lotion on its skin :: it puts the lotion in the basket

    Nobody expects the Colonic Imposition!

  32. 32
    Horse-Pheathers

    Bring ‘em on. My teeth need the sharpening and my coat is not quite so glossy as to could be for the Fall Bacchanal and Baby-Eating.

    (Two babies for me this year, please. I’ll need the energy for the orgy pit afterwards.)

  33. 33
    Form&Function

    G.Shelly writes:

    I wonder if PZ feels shame that hie is using the success of Science Blogs to start his own network using the name of one of their blogs?

    Perhaps you’d like to explain what the hell you’re talking about. It sounds like you’re saying that because PZ uses the name Pharyngula for this blog as well as the one on NatGeo’s dime, that’s an occasion for shame. The blog was Pharyngula long before Science Blogs, long before NatGeo, and long before Freethoughtblogs.

  34. 34
    Philip L

    G.Shelley, I think you’ll find by checking the archives that the Pharyngula blog predates Scienceblogs (which still gets the “Lite” version).

  35. 35
    Horse-Pheathers

    *pokes G.Shelley %30*

    ….a new chewtoy?

  36. 36
    Deen

    @Sastra:

    Militant apathy

    Love that term :)

  37. 37
    Horse-Pheathers

    *gives the G.Shelley chewtoy a nibble to see if it squeaks*

    1. Pharyngula as a blog predates ScienceBlogs by quite some time and is PZ’s personal creation.

    2. The success of ScienceBlogs has been in part because of Pharyngula, not the other way around. Pharyngula was one of the “anchor stores” in the ScienceBlogs “mall”.

  38. 38
    raven

    dumb troll:

    I wonder if PZ feels shame that hie is using the success of Science Blogs to start his own network using the name of one of their blogs?

    Well, here is a troll now. Not a very good one.

    I wonder if G. Shelly feels shame that they are using a substandard brain to lie in an attempt to insult PZ Myers. And doing a really poor job.

    What succcess of Scienceblogs? Scienceblogs was failing fast. The Sciblog network was on a steady downhill slide due to problems at Seed media. At times, they stopped paying their bloggers, a breach of contract and usually a sign of impending bankruptcy. At times the site would get buggy and it took days and weeks to get a tech person to fix it.

    Sciblogs was eventually sold to Natgeo, who worked out a deal with PZ.

    1. PZ still posts science stuff on Sciblogs. Your facts are wrong.

    2. The material National Geographic has no interest in, religion and politics goes on PZ’s new site. National Geographic has no interest in highlighting the atrocities and weirdness of religion in general or xianity in particular.

    Pathetic. Shelly, try again. Don’t bother trying to be clever, you aren’t very good at it. Try rabid insults and death threats along with threats of an imaginary deity and hell. You might even want to bring up the Trilemma.

  39. 39
    Cwayne

    Terrifying stuff. The level of ignorance and hatred is mind boggling.
    “FreeThoughts :: sponsored by mental slavery and manipulation.”
    Hilarious. What a limited individual!

  40. 40
    Aquaria

    That scumbag at the other site deletes posts they don’t agree with and replaces it with LOSER!

    What a fucking surprise that they’re stupid and dishonest.

    Don’t bother with them. They’re human filth.

  41. 41
    mikeg

    Patiently I wait with my razor whet; thinking of all the intricate ways I may use her.

    She is stronger than anything the godbot presents- with a precision unmatched by any theologian.

    Rethinking my strategy, I grab my blunt-as-fuck spoon. That’ll do just fine, as Raven fires yet.

  42. 42
    Moggie

    Sastra:

    Militant apathy

    Hey! Don’t you go disparaging us militant apathetics! If you’re not careful, we’ll… uhh… we’ll… I’ll get back to you on that. Maybe next week.

    Brits of a Certain Age may remember one of my favourite political snarks, when Willie Whitelaw accused Harold Wilson of “going around the country stirring up apathy”. I’d like to do the same, if I had the energy.

  43. 43
    Aquaria

    Wow, Navarro supporters and loonier-than-AIG within two posts. How deep does the inanity/insanity run?

    Like anything ugly, it goes all the way to the bone.

  44. 44
    Pepijn

    @Zinc Avenger:

    Or do the colons just indicate something is full of shit?

    Bravo sir, that is the best pun I’ve seen in a long time… :-)

  45. 45
    Anteprepro

    For those piling on G. Shelley, stop. G. Shelley wasn’t making the argument about PZ and Scienceblogs, but was mocking that argument on the linked site:

    In August Myers co-founded his own “blog network” :: subtly called FreeThoughtBlogs. His own blog on FreeThoughtBlogs is still going to be called Pharyngula :: because it would be hard for someone with the charisma of warm milk to build a web brand without piggybacking off a brand-name like ScienceBlogs.

    Just one data point of many showing how orthogonal to reality the Navarro apologist is.

  46. 46
    captainchaos

    @Aquaria:

    While I agree with the rest of your post, they don’t actually delete posts, they just hide them if they received too many down votes, and display the word LOSER. It’s a pretty standard comment moderation system. You can still see the post if you want to by clicking on a link.

  47. 47
    Gaebolga

    Aquaria wrote:

    That scumbag at the other site deletes posts they don’t agree with and replaces it with LOSER!

    Near as I can tell, that’s an automated function in the comments that pops up if a comment gets too many negative ratings. Plus, the comment isn’t actually deleted; it’s just hidden unless you click the “Click here to see” link, which will display the original comment in grey text.

    Many of the “LOSER!”-ed comments appear to be frothing-at-the-mouth attacks on PZ, which leads me to conclude it’s an automated function.

    Still waiting for the promised “shitstorm”…so far, not even a whiff of a shitbreeze.

  48. 48
    Etiene

    Anteprepro:

    G. Shelley wasn’t making the argument about PZ and Scienceblogs, but was mocking that argument on the linked site:

    That was my read on it too, thought that was fairly clear from the attitude taken in the first paragraph. No trolls yet.

  49. 49
    FO

    @Acquaria: Actually, when a post gets too many negative votes, it gets folded (you can just click to read them) and labeled as LOSER.
    Right now, some PZ-sympathetic posts are labelled as WINNER! with a lot of positive votes.

  50. 50
    Gregory Greenwood

    We’re supposed to get flooded with indignant trolls who will take me down.

    Good. The entire horde will have ample opportunity to sharpen their fangs and render their coats nice and sniny…

    *Advanced warning to readers of a nervous disposition*

    The following thread will most likely include the uncensored use of reason and critical thought, scenes of discursive violence done to illogical and/or unevidenced arguments, foul (at times comedically so) langauge, and numerous references to atypical uses for decaying porcupines.

    *Reader discretion is advised*

  51. 51
    G.Shelley

    Antepreppo has it right, I was referencing the bizarre idea that SD has that PZ is somehow abusing the success of Science Blogs by using the name Pharyngula here.

    Which is one of the things I also meant in my first paragraph that are so ignorant they made me suspect parody

  52. 52
    Horse-Pheathers

    *sulks* Not-a-chewtoy? *sigh*

  53. 53
    Anteprepro

    Gregory Greenwood:

    *Advanced warning to readers of a nervous disposition*

    The following thread will most likely include the uncensored use of reason and critical thought, scenes of discursive violence done to illogical and/or unevidenced arguments, foul (at times comedically so) langauge, and numerous references to atypical uses for decaying porcupines.

    *Reader discretion is advised*

    WINNER. This should be offered up as an early warning in every thread with a relatively high threat of spontaneous troll generation. Let’s make it official, people!

  54. 54
    Gaebolga

    Patience, Horse-Pheathers; patience.

    Surely the great and powerful Salty Droid doesn’t make empty threats. No doubt his well-washed hordes are simply biding their time, trying to lulz us into a false sense of security before they unleash their dreaded fecal hurricane.

    Oh the shit will fly…just as soon as they can tell their asses from an overused punctuation mark.

  55. 55
    Gaebolga

    FO wrote:

    @Acquaria: Actually, when a post gets too many negative votes, it gets folded (you can just click to read them) and labeled as LOSER.
    Right now, some PZ-sympathetic posts are labelled as WINNER! with a lot of positive votes.

    So, should we Pharyngulate SD’s comments?

  56. 56
    SQB

    I hate to say it, but that salty droid has one thing right: its criticism of the ads shown here.

  57. 57
    Thomas

    Perhaps the “unicorn insanity” quote has something to do with this: http://www.unicornmuseum.org/

  58. 58
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    We’ve got one over in the original Navarro thread.

  59. 59
    Bernard Bumner

    I hate to say it, but that salty droid has one thing right: its criticism of the ads shown here.

    Not really an original criticism, is it?

    Various commenters here have complained about the adverts, too.

  60. 60
    Usernames are smart

    #38: raven


    Sciblogs was eventually sold to Natgeo, who worked out a deal with PZ.

    Unfortunately his ‘double post’ (here and Sciblogs) is wacking his SEO, big time. (I used to code monkey a high-traffic MSM website, so I know of what I speak).

    Google punishes duplicate content unless there’s a canonical link on the copy pointing to the original.

    Take the Giraffe story here.

    * Freethought — Perfect!
    <link rel="canonical" href="http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/10/05/demonstrating-an-accident-of-evolution-in-a-giraffe/" />

    * Scienceblogs — FAIL!
    (no link)

    To fix it, he would need to take that canonical link above and add it to the scienceblog entry. This would tell Google, “Even though this is the same content, the “master copy” is on Freethought. Google would make sure to credit all the external links going to Scienceblogs as belonging to Freethought.

  61. 61
    Gregory Greenwood

    I just made the mistake of clicking on the link to the Salty Moron site. The crazy is strong over there. The whole, lengthy, incoherent rant is a study in delusion, projection, confirmation bias and a deeply weird Narnia obsession, and that is before we even get onto the comments (someone called ‘Barbara’ seems to be a particularly good example of the frothing-at-the-mouth religious kook type). Even so, one part in particular jumped out at me…

    Unlike PZ Myers :: The Salty Droid does actual research before commencing any running_at_the_mouth. Getting the fucking facts :: the level at which Myers fails so horribly :: is the mandatory first step to drawing any meaningful conclusions. I wonder if PZ Myers exhibits such intellectual weakness in all areas of his life … or just when he’s expressing his old-fashioned bigotry?

    Salty Droid now officially owes me a new irony metre. Mine has just been reduced to molten slag. Doubly so when you take into account the following statements;

    * Anthony Jr. stalks and harasses his own brother = wrong
    * threatening him = wrong
    * harasses people associated with him = wrong
    * lies about him = wrong
    * contacts his clients and basically destroys his business = wrong {that was me!}
    * he will not tolerate the fact that a man and a woman can decide to dissolve the bonds of matrimony = wrong

    This chap likes to say ‘wrong’ a lot, but at no point actually supplies the evidence to demonstrate that PZ was factually inaccurate or prejudicial in his statements.

    This just has to be be wrong. After all, Salty Droid is a self declared bastion of journalistic integrity! It is surely inconceiveable that they would make a claim of persecution and harrasment on PZ’s part without any evidence to back it up. I mean, they would have to be theist kooks with no regard for accuracy or the standing of journalism to do that…

  62. 62
    AJ Milne

    The whole, lengthy, incoherent rant is a study in delusion…

    Check. SOP. Continue…

    …projection…

    Check. And two for two…

    …confirmation bias…

    All good. Well on my way to nailing a row in my ‘religionist BINGO card’, too. Anything else?

    … and a deeply weird Narnia obsession.

    (Blinks…)

    Sweet. Now that, that’s a least a lil’ bit fresh.

    I mean: Narnia theokooks? In 2011? How charmingly retro. Nice. And just as I was about to doze off from the dreary predictability of it all, too…

    (/Hurries off to find appropriately picturesque disses centered around three-ways involving a certain blandly obviously allegorical leonine Messiah figure and dead porcupines…)

  63. 63
    PZ Myers

    Oooh, that information about rel=”canonical” is very useful — but not easy to do. The header for article pages is under control of some php code — I’d have to have something to automatically translate Sb urls to FtB urls.

  64. 64
    Gregory Greenwood

    AJ Milne @ 62;

    Hurries off to find appropriately picturesque disses centered around three-ways involving a certain blandly obviously allegorical leonine Messiah figure and dead porcupines…

    You know that, now you have promised such concentrated awesome, you have to deliver, right?

    I await your offerings with baited breath…

    ;-)

  65. 65
    nobonobo

    Sniff. Sniff.
    I smell bullshit.

  66. 66
    Crapface

    I don’t see anything Religious about the salty droid website… unless you guys use that as a synonym for “accurate” over here….

    maybe you should have an english professor “guest blog” on here about how to use the word religious, the definition of a hate crime, and how to do research for writing. i hear guest blogging makes you lots of internet monies, and you can get more of the free traffics so you can charge more to advertise here, even though you already claim you get 30x more page views then you actually get.

    word.

  67. 67
    reasonisbeauty

    :: but PZ Myers probably just gets confused about graphs and numbers and stuff … coming like he does from such an unrigorous discipline.

    Biology is an unrigorous discipline? Who knew?

    I read thru this guys website and I still have no idea what the fuck he’s talking about about anything. He has a multi-week series pointing out how easy it is to lead people into believing complete bullshit, including religion, then goes on in this post to defend religions role as an opiate, cuz, you know, opium makes people feel better.

    Really, PZ, can’t you get a better class to hate on you?

    and srsly, what is the deal with replacing random punctuation with “::”?

  68. 68
    Anteprepro

    Crapface: ” the definition of a hate crime”

    What kind of drugs are you on? No one mentioned hate crimes here until you did. And, for that matter, no one said the salty droid was a religious site.

    Worst. Trolling. Ever.

  69. 69
    timgilmour

    actually his comment about the ads is wrong anyway — he’s referring to a context specific dotomi ad that pops when cookies are displayed from a site previously visited — in his case, one about making money on blogs (which seems to be their obsession over there).

    for example, i see two ads on the page from a client of ours, since we’ve been working on their site this morning.

  70. 70
    myeck waters

    Crapface #66

    even though you already claim you get 30x more page views then you actually get.

    Citation needed.

    Your post makes you seem a bit angry. Take a deep breath. We have a fainting couch if you need one.

  71. 71
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I don’t see anything Religious about the salty droid website… unless you guys use that as a synonym for “accurate” over here….

    maybe you should have an english professor “guest blog” on here about how to use the word religious, the definition of a hate crime, and how to do research for writing. i hear guest blogging makes you lots of internet monies, and you can get more of the free traffics so you can charge more to advertise here, even though you already claim you get 30x more page views then you actually get.

    word.

    ironic that

  72. 72
    chigau (sss)

    Or do the colons just indicate something is full of shit?

    I just got that.
    Too much rum last night.

  73. 73
    drksky

    and srsly, what is the deal with replacing random punctuation with “::”?

    I think he’s trying to use it as an ::emphasis:: device, but is too stupid to figure out how to use, I dunno, the emphasis tag.

  74. 74
    Gaebolga

    Crapface wrote:

    I don’t see anything Religious about the salty droid website… unless you guys use that as a synonym for “accurate” over here….

    Yawn.

    Where’s the promised “shitstorm”?

    Damn, this Salty Droid posse is pathetic….

    Crapface wrote:

    maybe you should have an english professor “guest blog” on here about how to use the word religious, the definition of a hate crime, and how to do research for writing.

    Yeah, that would be me. PZ’s doing just fine on all the fronts you mention…should I perhaps post a “guest blog” over on SD to teach y’all how to use the colon appropriately (pun intended)?

    And maybe one on the basics of capitalization?

    Crapface wrote:

    i hear guest blogging makes you lots of internet monies, and you can get more of the free traffics so you can charge more to advertise here, even though you already claim you get 30x more page views then you actually get.

    Which relates to Anthony Navarro’s religion-inspired threats…how exactly?

    Perhaps I should also teach y’all about crafting a coherent argument….

    Crapface wrote:

    word.

    Well, it’s got basic spellcheck and grammar check functions, so you’re obviously not using it when you write.

  75. 75
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    For fuck’s sake, but Salty Droid is damned near incoherent. I’m trying to figure who has fuck-all to do with Anthony Navarro in the linked post, and I can’t decipher what his fucking point is, other than, “Anthony says he’s worried about his brother, who disappeared.”

    Yeah. I’d stop communicating with my brother if he started fucking harassing me, too.

    But seriously. I couldn’t make heads nor tails out of that damned post. It was almost like a stream-of-consciousness “I don’t like PZ because he hates on Christians and he didn’t talk to Anthony Navarro before fucking quoting Navarro on his website. Oh, and we spent a year investigating this death, and writing incoherently about it.”

  76. 76
    Thomathy, Such A 'Mo

    The promised trolls, where are they? The MRA’s were at least getting good at appearing not to troll at first. But we’re way too keen and if these three posters represent the trolls we can expect, well, I’m very disappointed. There are guides to internet trolling. They’re not hard to follow. Honestly, where did all the good trolls go?

  77. 77
    pelamun

    So since Barbara over there is hard at work grasping at straws..

    can anyone remind me again why http://beckytranssexual.wordpress.com is so obsessed about PZ?

  78. 78
    evilDoug

    Where’s the promised “shitstorm”?

    Oh, there is a very clever plot afoot here!
    Look how many silly people have dragged those double colons over from dipshit’s site, thinking they are merely something to laugh at. Soon sufficient will be mustered here, on our territory, that it will be time for the signal to be sent, and all of those colons will let go at once. Gird your loins and get out your Wellies.

  79. 79
    cicely
    Crapface wrote:
    word.

    Well, it’s got basic spellcheck and grammar check functions, so you’re obviously not using it when you write.

    I lol’d.

    Maybe, after Microsoft markets an appropriate program (I started to say “Write”, but apparently that is/was a word processor; maybe “Expound”? “Address” or “Compose” would have obvious problems in this context) for it, and C learns how to click the shiny little icons, we’ll get something well-written, with correct spelling and grammar, out of hir?
    -

  80. 80
    Inaji

    pelamun:

    can anyone remind me again why http://beckytranssexual.wordpress.com is so obsessed about PZ?

    She was dungeoned at sciblogs. I vaguely recall accusations of everyone being nazis or somesuch. I forget the thread, you can do a search for her at Pharyngula sciblog.

  81. 81
    pelamun

    Caine, oh yes the old dungeon had a link. Thx

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/bravo_belgium.php

  82. 82
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/bravo_belgium.php

    Yeah, notice that was over a year ago, and sie’s still railing against PZ.

  83. 83
    'Tis Himself

    Yeah, notice that was over a year ago, and sie’s still railing against PZ.

    Everyone needs a hobby.

  84. 84
    Gaebolga

    What the hell!?!?

    Where’s the godamned “epic shitstorm” we were promised?

    Salty Droid needs to investigate his own damn self for promising stuff on the Internet that he’s totally incapable of delivering….

  85. 85
    StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    can anyone remind me again why http://beckytranssexual.wordpress.com is so obsessed about PZ?

    By looking at that site, I’d say that person is bordering on stalkerish. I really don’t understand people who obsessively blog about one person. Who would want to read that?
    Also, so much bold font!

  86. 86
    Inaji

    Erulora:

    Yeah, notice that was over a year ago, and sie’s still railing against PZ.

    She felt very wronged by what happened at sciblogs*. She showed up at my moblog a couple of times to try and explain things from her view, I told her it wasn’t appropriate to have a discussion there and fwiw, she listened to me and was civil. I doubt she’s realized she’s un-dungeoned here. (Or perhaps she’s sticking to what people told her to do, take it to her blog and keep it there.)

    *I’m not saying she was right in that thread, she was definitely off the rails.

  87. 87
    Contented Reader

    I tried to read the linked blog entry, but I didn’t understand it at all. I didn’t understand why he thinks PZ is so bad, or even what he thinks the real facts of the story are. Maybe if I were a regular reader there, it would make more sense, but I can’t imagine a universe in which I would be a regular reader of that blog based on the one entry I am looking at.

  88. 88
    Ichthyic

    the Navarro horde

    I thought the threat was from ye olde Salty Droid?

    I keep getting new bags of popcorn to await the arrival of SD, but it keeps going to waste.

    I even went over there and kicked his fanboys some…

    nothing.

  89. 89
    Ichthyic

    even though you already claim you get 30x more page views then you actually get.

    so this is all about page views?

    this, coming from a guy who posts on SD’s site…

    SD, whose only basic spiel is to keep railing about how all websites are just spamming for dollars?

    say, why don’t you ask old Salty to explain to you cretins how adsense actually works?

    He might have to look it up, because it’s pretty obvious he knows fuck-all about it from reading his irrational screeds.

    NEXT

  90. 90
    Ichthyic

    I hate to say it, but that salty droid has one thing right: its criticism of the ads shown here.

    adsense.

    look it up.

  91. 91
    Ichthyic

    Religious trolls intimidating people?

    just to be clear, Salty fanboys run the gamut.

    some of them are just garden variety slackwit trolls.

    no religion involved.

  92. 92
    pelamun

    Contentedreader,

    the website is dedicated to fighting scammers, which is not bad.

    Now in this case, we had

    - religious older brother allegedly harassing the younger brother, which originally prompted the original entry

    - younger brother allegedly running a internet marketing scam, also accused of leaving his wife for his business partner (or scamming partner).

    Now if the scamming allegation should be true, that of course makes the initial statements by the younger brother and his business partner (to whose blog PZ linked in his first post) a bit suspect. PZ said there were newspaper articles too but I haven’t checked them. We could end up with a he-said-she-said scenario here, with the religious brother denying he ever threatened his scammer brother. So maybe PZ jumped to conclusions, maybe he didn’t. At this point I would just wait for law enforcement to sort this out, we won’t be able to find out from here.

    However, now about the website in question: the webmaster claim to have all the evidence that the religious brother is right, claiming to have researched the case for several months. But, they have chosen not to disclose any of that information they claim to have amassed.
    Furthermore, even if the scamming thing should be true, and let’s assume in good faith that the website does have a track record of going after scammers, the thread about that particular case was so full of misogynist crap, including of a violent sexual nature, that PZ put the website on his index.

    Please feel free to add anything or correct me if you think there is a problem with this summary of events

  93. 93
    DaveDodo007

    PZ: I get all the obsessive-compulsive kooks.

    Now that’s just plain greedy:-)

  94. 94
    otrame

    *pout

    I was looking forward to the new chew toys, and Craphead… I mean Crapface was the best we got?

    Jeez, what are they teaching kids these days. Let me see if I can help.

    Notes in bold are my comments on Crapface’s comment.

    I don’t see anything Religious In this context, the r should be lower case. about the salty droid The blog name should be capitalized, unless the blogger uses lower case on his/her site name. website… unless you guys use that as a synonym for “accurate” over here…. A single period is appropriate here, since this is a finished thought.

    maybe capitalize the first word in a sentence you should have an english Capitalize a proper noun. professor “guest blog” on here about how to use the word religious, the definition of a hate crime, and how to do research for writing. i Capitalize the first word of a sentence. Capitalize the first person pronoun. hear guest blogging makes you lots of internet monies, and you can get more of the free traffics Traffic is singular in this context. so you can charge more to advertise here, even though you already claim you get 30x more page views then the correct word is than you actually get. Everything after “advertize here” is a non sequitur. The amount of money is based on actual page views, and whether or not the blogger claims more page views that he actually gets is completely irrelevant to the first part of the sentence.

    word. This is an incomplete sentence. If the intention was to use the vernacular expression that means “you are correct,” or is, for some reason, a reference to a popular word processing program, it should still be capitalized, even though it is not intended to be a complete sentence. It should be noted, however, that ending the comment with an expression meaning “you are correct” does not make sense when the rest of your comment insists that the OP is not correct. The simple naming of a popular piece of software at the end of the comment, if that was your intention, is also puzzling.

    Yes, I really was that bored, why do you ask?

  95. 95
    Bunny

    Had a brief chat over there, gave up when I noticed the auto-censor plugin. Gotta love those opinion-based blogs that cut unpopular opinions.

  96. 96
    cicely

    No; Microsoft Rant!!!; always in ALL CAPS, and with Tone Control™ option.
    -

  97. 97
    Unaspammer

    @pelamun,

    - religious older brother provably harassing the younger brother, which originally prompted the original entry

    FTFY

    Evidence: http://www.letterstodavenavarro.com

    Creating a web site to publicly shame someone into doing what you want on a private matter is harassment.

  98. 98
    Ryan

    Hey guys, actual regular SD reader here, and believe it or not, i’m not here to troll or attack.

    I don’t think SD ever said a “shitstorm” would be coming to your site. He doesn’t call in air strikes on other websites and has his “followers” descend upon it and take siege.

    In fact, it’s exactly that type of blind following that SD is against.

    Anyways, any time he gets big-time evidence against a big internet marketing/make money online guru, he calls it a “shitstorm”. The current shitstorm is about Naomi Dunford and Dave Navarro. That’s what he’s referring to, not some attack on you guys or something. If I were you guys, I wouldn’t sit around waiting for the trolls to come, prepping for battle. A few will find their way over here, but not a ton most likely.

    I would recommend ya’ll let this go, it’s not worth starting a fight with SD and us readers. I see a lot of Pharyngula readers there commenting and upvoting each others comments and downvoting dissenting opinions…. yeah, that’s not gonna be too popular over there.

    As for some specifics into that shitstorm, the “newspaper sources” that PZ is talking about have almost nothing to do with the shitstorm, just with the parents of involved peoples. Yes, the older brother is pretty darn religious, but has a valid reason for pester the younger one to return to his family. According to the chat logs that SD leaked (the actual shitstorm, pretty lengthy, but read if you want), Dave Navarro was suckered and socially engineered by Naomi Dunford into thinking his wife hates him and he should leave if he REALLY wants to make money online, blah blah blah. I’m not going to explain the whole thing here, but I’d hope you have some reason for fighting with SD other than the fact that Anthony Navarro is a devout christian… that’s not a crime, and you are not judges. Feel free to believe and discuss whatever you wish here, but you can’t incriminate Anthony Navarro for his religious beliefs. Sorry, that just doesn’t work. It’s like fundamentalist christians incriminating gays for their sexual orientation, which I assume isn’t cool with you liberal minds.

    So… yeah, guess that’s it.

    Have a nice day everybody, RIP Steve Jobs, and let’s all go back to our prospective websites and their discussions.

    Here: science and atheism and whatnot
    SD: internet scammers and shitstorms

  99. 99
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Feel free to believe and discuss whatever you wish here, but you can’t incriminate Anthony Navarro for his religious beliefs

    No but we can be critical of those beliefs when they are as astoundingly stupid as his are.

    Now run along.

  100. 100
    PZ Myers

    We’re not sitting around waiting for a shitstorm. We’re not going to get one: we’re laughing at Salty Droid’s indignant impotence.

  101. 101
    Unaspammer

    @Ryan,

    I would recommend ya’ll let this go, it’s not worth starting a fight with SD and us readers. I see a lot of Pharyngula readers there commenting and upvoting each others comments and downvoting dissenting opinions…. yeah, that’s not gonna be too popular over there.

    Aww, did your feelings get hurt by the abuse to your silly little popularity contest? Amusingly, I’m over there and I’m seeing exactly the opposite trend in the more recent comments. Pharyngulite comments are down-voted, whilst SD comments are up-voted, seemingly no matter how inane (it’s okay, though; I won’t be hurt if you down-vote me).

    Yes, the older brother is pretty darn religious, but has a valid reason for pester the younger one to return to his family.

    A valid reason to harass him about a private matter by setting up a website to shame him publicly? I don’t think so.

    I’m not going to explain the whole thing here, but I’d hope you have some reason for fighting with SD other than the fact that Anthony Navarro is a devout christian… that’s not a crime, and you are not judges. Feel free to believe and discuss whatever you wish here, but you can’t incriminate Anthony Navarro for his religious beliefs.

    His beliefs are merely stupid. It is his words and his actions that incriminate him.

    It’s like fundamentalist christians incriminating gays for their sexual orientation, which I assume isn’t cool with you liberal minds.

    The two things are not alike at all. Religious belief is a personal choice. Sexual orientation is not.

  102. 102
    AmVik

    Hi Ryan, thanks for stopping by to explain that. I guess we misunderstood what shitstorm referred to.
    Maybe you can help explain something else. When SD wrote:

    October 1st, 2011 at 12:45 am

    HeadsUp! PZ Myers … you just started a war with the exact wrong motherfucker …

    What did he mean? That he was going to write an immature and incoherent hate piece about PZ? That’s it?

    I’d prefer to hear it from him, but he’s too much of a coward to come here and explain himself. He just lies about being censored. Can you help enlighten me? Thanks!

    Also, what’s the point of voting on comments? What does that add to any discussion?

    I hope you stick around to see this.

  103. 103
    hotshoe, now with more boltcutters

    Is there a single follower of that craptastic Salty Droid website who can write a complete paragraph in standard English with correct punctuation, capitalization, etc ?

    No, of course not. How silly of me to even ask. Any person with a normal brain and average education would have been driven away by the SD owner’s crazy ways, leaving only the sub-normal to prop up SD.

    Take a look at “regular SD reader” Ryan as an example. In his very first sentence, Ryan omits the capital I of “i’m”. Precious, oh so precious. It doesn’t get much better from there.

    Thanks, Ryan, darling; don’t call us – we’ll call you.

  104. 104
    PZ Myers

    PZ Myers … you just started a war with the exact wrong motherfucker

    Yeah, that kind of nonsense is what prompted me to immediately put his URL in the blacklist. Quite the contrary to his claim, my action was to dismiss and disregard him entirely.

    That’s probably what pissed him off most. I think he’s a joke.

  105. 105
    AmVik

    hotshoe!
    maybe they think punctuation guidelines are merely suggestions}
    i mean? do we really need so many hard-line rules in our lives::
    :: …

  106. 106
    coleslaw

    As for some specifics into that shitstorm, the “newspaper sources” that PZ is talking about have almost nothing to do with the shitstorm, just with the parents of involved peoples. Yes, the older brother is pretty darn religious, but has a valid reason for pester[sic] the younger one to return to his family.

    Nobody has a valid reason for pestering a fellow adult into doing anything. That’s manipulation, which is the same thing you accuse Naomi Dunford of doing. Anthony apparently has been unable to persuade David to change his behavior through accepted means of doing so (ie reasoning with him). Another person in that position would say, “Well, I tried. Even if he doesn’t see I’m right now, maybe he will in time, or maybe I’ll come to see I’m wrong.”

    As to where the newspaper stories come into it, Anthony’s saying, “You are guilty of the same sin as our mother and it cost her her life in the end” is pretty chilling when you realize “it cost her her life” really means “our dad chose to murder her”. Around here, that’s called blaming the victim, and is considered a bad thing.

  107. 107
    Mattir, Another One With Boltcutters

    How exactly does getting a divorce lead to making megabucks on the internet? And how does one engineer someone else into getting a divorce anyway? Do you have to be an engineer to do it? Are there tools involved?

    (Trying to keep the Mister from looking over my shoulder as I type this, but he appears absorbed by solitaire.)

  108. 108
    Ing

    Feel free to believe and discuss whatever you wish here, but you can’t incriminate Anthony Navarro for his religious beliefs.

    Sure we can.

  109. 109
    Inaji

    you can’t incriminate Anthony Navarro for his religious beliefs. Sorry, that just doesn’t work. It’s like fundamentalist christians incriminating gays for their sexual orientation, which I assume isn’t cool with you liberal minds.

    Sure we can. Rightly so, too. If you’re a person so twisted by religion as to use it as the basis to threaten, endanger and harass, you’ve incriminated yourself. It’s not like we have to go out of our way here.

    As for letting it go, how about you and the rest of the Lame Gang take your own advice?

  110. 110
    Ing

    According to the chat logs that SD leaked (the actual shitstorm, pretty lengthy, but read if you want), Dave Navarro was suckered and socially engineered by Naomi Dunford into thinking his wife hates him and he should leave if he REALLY wants to make money online, blah blah blah. I’m not going to explain the whole thing here, but I’d hope you have some reason for fighting with SD other than the fact that Anthony Navarro is a devout christian… that’s not a crime, and you are not judges.

    I don’t trust any ::leaks:: from someone who is clearly ::bat squeaking:: ::nuts::

  111. 111
    Ing

    How exactly does getting a divorce lead to making megabucks on the internet? And how does one engineer someone else into getting a divorce anyway? Do you have to be an engineer to do it? Are there tools involved?

    Too many jokes to make

    Step 1: Get Partner to divorce his spouse
    Step 2: Have sex with partner
    Step 3: ????
    Step 4: Profit

    How exactly does getting a divorce lead to making megabucks on the internet? And how does one engineer someone else into getting a divorce anyway? Do you have to be an engineer to do it? Are there tools involved?

    You make a successful Bluff Check versus their Fidelity Saving throws. If you have Divorce Maker Tools it adds a +5 bonus

    How exactly does getting a divorce lead to making megabucks on the internet? And how does one engineer someone else into getting a divorce anyway? Do you have to be an engineer to do it? Are there tools involved?

    Don’t you know, women are evil and always fooling those gullible stupid pack animals known as males

    Seriously, the Divroce–>$$$$ sounds like a bad Brad Pitt thriller

  112. 112
    DLC

    Oh right. So some guy on the internet takes it upon himself to be judge, jury and executioner, and rational people are just supposed to sit up, or else what ?
    You’ll send your sycophants over here to bother people ?
    Ooooh, Scary. We should all applaud you and your droidlings or else you’ll leave nasty messages on a blog ?
    You gotta be kidding.

  113. 113
    DLC

    Whoah. 112… my typo. should read ” . . . and rational people are supposed to shut up, or else what? ”
    not sit up. I had originally written ” . . . and so rational people are supposed to sit down and shut up” but then shortened it. For brevity, which I have now ruined by explaining… I’m gonna quit now, before the hole is deeper than I am tall.

  114. 114
    John Morales

    So, Ryan was the shitstorm?

    (Looked more like a bird-dropping, to me)

  115. 115
    Ichthyic

    I think he’s a joke.

    no need to think about it.

    he is.

  116. 116
    Ichthyic

    You know who these salty droid fanboys remind me of?

    I bet you’re getting it even as I write this…

    that’s right.

    Juggalos.

  117. 117
    Noadi

    OMFSM! Run from Pharyngula! PZ runs advertising, how scandalous. Doesn’t he know that no one should be trying to be compensated in any way for taking the time and effort to write a blog.

    /sarcasm (as if the horde needed that but some of the droidlings might not be bright enough to get it)

    Seriously, we all know the advertising here can produce some weird results. I find it hilarious when I see Christian dating ads. I’m really amused that someone who claims to write about abuse of internet marketing doesn’t seem to grasp some basic facts about ad networks like Google Adwords (mainly that site owners don’t actively choose which ads are displayed).

  118. 118
    Ichthyic

    I would recommend ya’ll let this go, it’s not worth starting a fight with SD and us readers.

    you’ll back off, if ya know what’s good fer ya.

    I see a lot of Pharyngula readers there commenting and upvoting each others comments and downvoting dissenting opinions…. yeah, that’s not gonna be too popular over there.

    LOL

    yeah. we felt we needed to egg the clowns on a bit.

    appears it’s working.

    Is it finally time for my bag of popcorn?

  119. 119
    Ichthyic

    SD: internet scammers and shitstorms

    I looked at several of salty’s posts regarding scammers, INCLUDING his remarks about PZ being one.

    uh, sorry, but if you think that guy is the fucking David Horowitz of the internet, you’re laughably ignorant.

    half the stuff he rails on he has no clue what he’s talking about.

    I posted the very example of ads on this site, which are just the basic adsense feed, nothing more.

    he whined about the ads he saw here?

    guess what:

    adsense TARGETED THOSE ADS TO WHAT HE WAS READING AND TYPING.

    It’s a complete ingnoramus that blames the blogsite for the ad instead of blaming the lame ass who programmed adsense.

    don’t like it? fucking whine to the site administrators; whine to adsense; but to think that the blogger is choosing the ads?

    that’s just fucking stupid.

  120. 120
    Ichthyic

    Dave Navarro was suckered and socially engineered by Naomi Dunford into thinking his wife hates him

    and if you believe that someone can be “socially engineered”, I wonder if you realize that salty has been socially engineering you to read his blogsite?

    yeah, that’s right, you’ve been BRAINWASHED!

    or maybe you’re just gullible.

    meh.

  121. 121
    Noadi

    Oh, one more example of this guy not having a fucking clue: FtB’s Alexa ranking. First of all Alexa rankings are based only on traffic gathered through Alexa’s malware toolbar and the rank he quotes was for 3 months and FtB hasn’t even been online for 3 months yet (7/31 was PZ’s first post).

    Now I looked at FtB’s Alexa ranking http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/freethoughtblogs.com and you can see that the rank for the past month and past week is much different than the number SD quoted.

    Actually I take back my first statement, he isn’t clueless, he’s a liar.

  122. 122
    Inaji

    Ichthyic:

    or maybe you’re just gullible.

    I’ll go with Just plain stupid for a $1,000, Alex.

  123. 123
    Anteprepro

    It’s even worse than that, Naodi. He can’t fucking read and/or perform basic logic. He cited freethoughtblogs low Alexa rating (after existing for two months) as irrefutable evidence that PZ and Ed were lying/delusional about their projection of 100,000 page views per day when the site is fully established. And this after already establishing that he doesn’t realize just how popular Pharyngula actually is. (Hint for the Saltites: It was the number one blog about science in 2006. According to Alexa, it is ranked as the number one site about atheism, and the 82nd most popular site about religion, period. It is also somewhere in the top 50 most popular blogs, and was projected to have pulled in almost half of all the traffic on scienceblogs.com).

    Also (tangent): Droid’s actual complaint about PZ appears to be that he cited a source that he reeeally doesn’t like. That’s about all I can gather, because I’ve read through the article he links to about PZ’s source and all they can do is bluster about how she is asking for “secret money” for her husband and son’s birthday. Even if he accepted that as outright fraud and scamming, as Droid seems to, it does not follow that everything she said is wrong, and PZ mentioned that everything he restated from the Dreaded Naomi could be confirmed elsewhere and that “hatemongers” of the SD were calling him a liar despite that.

    To which the great logical robot responds:

    He needs to protect people from my harassment … or worse … until it looks like the story might be about PZ Myers. Suddenly “referencing” me is looking much more attractive. Pathetic.

    The “hatemongers” who participate in this site’s noble mission include many family members of Prior Lake Minnesota resident Liz Neuman. Liz got sucked into MLM via Herbalife :: and then James Arthur Ray … and she died from it. She fucking DIED from it. I think maybe Liz’s family would be surprised to hear that they are “hatemongers” :: feeling perhaps justified being upset that Liz was murdered in one of the most dreadful possible ways.

    Jason is very worried about Dave Navarro. Jason thinks that Dave is Colleen before she jumps … and he’s trying SO hard to stand between Dave and the Horton Plaza Mall railing while he stops Naomi Dunford from destroying more than the hundreds of lives that she’s already destroyed….

    I’ll be offering that same service to Anthony Navarro :: who is anything but an evil scumbag. I wonder how hard it will be to find an activist Christian attorney who will agree with an agnostic satirist attorney that PZ Myers’ disgusting :: ignorant :: bigotry based attacks on an already traumatized private citizen are completely unacceptable?

    With bluster. Salty Droid doesn’t need to actually establish why Naomi Dunford is such an evil person that everything she says needs to be disregarded, and anyone who doesn’t do so is just as evil as she is. Salty Droid is too cold and calculating for such troublesome things. Salty Droid can just be angry and flippant at Naomi for reasons never explicitly stated, can dismiss everything she says for reasons not fully spelled out, and can disregard the very idea that what she says can be confirmed elsewhere by instead blustering about how much good they do in other cases. I think this robot is defective.

    :::: Bleep blop blorp blip ::::

  124. 124
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    I would recommend ya’ll let this go, it’s not worth starting a fight with SD and us readers.

    Shorter Ryan: Consequences will never be the same.

  125. 125
    Gaebolga

    October 1st, 2011 at 12:45 am

    HeadsUp! PZ Myers … you just started a war with the exact wrong motherfucker …

    Bwa ha ha ha ha!

    Apparently Paltry ‘Roid is a rich vein of comedy gold.

    Paltry ‘Roid wrote:

    I’ll be offering that same service to Anthony Navarro :: who is anything but an evil scumbag. I wonder how hard it will be to find an activist Christian attorney who will agree with an agnostic satirist attorney that PZ Myers’ disgusting :: ignorant :: bigotry based attacks on an already traumatized private citizen are completely unacceptable?

    [Emphasis mine]

    …but of course thinly veiled, religously motivated death threats are just dandy!

    Methinks Paltry ‘Roid is trying to stir up shit with a vastly more popular blog in order to inflate his site’s traffic. I suppoose if he can’t get people to pay attention to his idiotic bullshit on its own merits, he figures he’s got no choice but to whine at his betters for some attention….

    You know, Will and Bob would totally pwn ‘Roid and his dingleberries in an argument.

    Hey Bob! Paltry ‘Roid thinks that Darwin was right! And he called you a poo-poo head!

    Go get ‘im!

  126. 126
    Ing

    I can understand a goddamn word Roid writes with his formatting. I just hear it in my head as Donald Duck noises

  127. 127
    David Marjanović, OM

    Or do the colons just indicate something is full of shit?

    Thread won.

    Yes — and I think the misunderstanding extends beyond theists meaning one thing and atheists meaning the other. Theists think that when it comes to faith the two different interpretations miraculously merge together and become the same thing, co-existing in unity — and yet they remain distinct. Sort of like the Trinity.

    And atheism is wrong because it’s mean. They equivocate between different interpretations of what it means to “be wrong” — and then blend them together into a harmonious whole.

    Score one for the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Especially because I’ve never encountered the confusion about “believe in _” (an _ glauben in German; its meaning “to believe _ is a good idea” seems to be restricted to English, if not to the USA.

  128. 128
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    Ryan:

    I’d hope you have some reason for fighting with SD other than the fact that Anthony Navarro is a devout christian… that’s not a crime, and you are not judges. Feel free to believe and discuss whatever you wish here, but you can’t incriminate Anthony Navarro for his religious beliefs.

    It isn’t just that Anthony Navarro is a devout Christian. My daughter is a devout Christian, and I quite love her, and don’t hold her beliefs against her.

    Y’know why? Because she doesn’t let her beliefs cause her to interfere in other people’s lives. She doesn’t tell the people she loves, “I love you, you’re going to hell just like our mother did when she was murdered by our father.”

    David Navarro may be an internet scammer. That point is not pertinent. What is pertinent is the content of the publicly-available messages Anthony Navarro has written, in which it is plain to see his religious beliefs prompting him to judge his brother, to publicly attempt to shame his brother.

    You say I can’t judge Anthony Navarro on his religious beliefs? He sure as fuck uses those same religious beliefs to judge others. So fuck you, you hypocritical lout! I most certainly can judge Anthony Navarro on his religious beliefs. As long as he is using those religious beliefs to judge others, he sure as fuck is open for judgement.

    I’m tired of assholes like you and Salty Droid giving people like Anthony Navarro a free pass on their religious judgement, while simultaneously castigating us for judging them on the actions resulting from their religious beliefs. It just doesn’t work that way, Twinkie-pie. We get to judge people when they open themselves up to judgement. They do this through action, not belief. And irrespective of David Navarro’s actions, Anthony Navarro Jr.’s actions are reprehensible.

    PS: Could you please give Salty Droid a copy of The Elements of Style? Hir’s writing is incoherent and unfocused to the point of incomprehensibility.

  129. 129
    David Marjanović, OM

    I’m sure this will appear twice, but I just can’t get it to appear once… so…

    ========================

    Argh. Didn’t mean to submit. Did mean to close the parenthesis behind the italics.

    Ever notice how the loonies always seem to have trouble with punctuation?

    Just about nobody has been properly taught it, and few of the rest have picked it up from reading. It’s not surprising that the loonies have trouble with it; most people do.

    Ever seen those people who write huge blocks of text with ellipses everywhere there might be a period or even a comma?

    Do you mean AJ Milne, OM?

    WINNER. This should be offered up as an early warning in every thread with a relatively high threat of spontaneous troll generation. Let’s make it official, people!

    Seconded. Just fix the langauge. :-]

    Could you please give Salty Droid a copy of The Elements of Style?

    Linguists call it “the thrice-accursed Strunk’n’White” because of all the nonsense about grammar in it. (Basically, Strunk presented his personal preferences as laws of nature, and White parroted them.) Just saying.

  130. 130
    pelamun

    Unaspammer, you’re right, setting up a website and asking others to write in constitutes a form of harassment, so yes, I’d amend it to “provably harassing”…

  131. 131
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    David Marjanović:

    Linguists call it “the thrice-accursed Strunk’n’White” because of all the nonsense about grammar in it.

    Oh, I’ve no doubt. I’m not presenting it as the best possible book. Just the one with the greatest amount of humor potential in the context in which it was offered.

  132. 132
    pelamun

    Nigel, as a linguistically minded person (I wouldn’t dare to speak for DM as well, though I do hope so), might I say, WE DO NOT JOKE ABOUT THAT BOOK

    The damage it has done to journalistic writing (and college level writing) is unimaginable. To even use it as a joke will contribute to its influence. So please don’t do it!

  133. 133
    pelamun

    argh

    “though I do hope he shares my opinion”

  134. 134
    Inaji

    Nigel:

    Could you please give Salty Droid a copy of The Elements of Style?

    I’d say a copy of Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation would do the trick, if I for one moment thought that Droid Boy were capable of reading with any comprehension.

    However, any idiot who thinks that a blog post they disagree with is starting a war is beyond hope.

  135. 135
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    pelamun:

    The damage it has done to journalistic writing (and college level writing) is unimaginable. To even use it as a joke will contribute to its influence. So please don’t do it!

    sigh

    Okay. Good point.

    Part of the joke (weak as it was) is predicated on the reputation of that book, vis a vis the appalling writing on Salty Droid.

    You’re right, though. It was a poor joke made worse by the recommendation of that book, a recommendation that might be taken seriously by others.

  136. 136
    pelamun

    ah Nigel, it’s kind of the POE of linguist jokes. Too many otherwise respected people have sincerely recommended that book as live-saver, so without some kind of smiley etc it would be hard to discern it was a joke…

  137. 137
    David Marjanović, OM

    though I do hope he shares my opinion

    I do :-)

  138. 138
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    pelamun:

    ah Nigel, it’s kind of the POE of linguist jokes.

    Good to know. I just know from my second creative writing professor that it’s not really a very good book, though my high school english teacher made us all read it. I didn’t realize it’s reputation was that bad.

    Thanks to you and David for the schoolin’.

  139. 139
    mythusmage

    People in this thread have wondered where all the trolls and loons are, feeling that a shit storm is not a shit storm without trolls and loons. Here is the secret of this apparent non-shit storm; it is a homeopathic shit storm. The fewer trolls and loons there are the stronger the shit storm.

    BTW, I’m well aware I got punctuation and sentence structure all wrong, but I figure, as long as I’m mostly understood. Besides, I’m an aspie, and I’m using that as an excuse.

  140. 140
    Unaspammer

    PZ, you’re being baited again:

    And I am willing to “bury the hatchet” … my demands are obvious. PZ Myers will take down that post about Anthony Navarro … and he’ll issue an apology … or I’ll see him in hell.

    You might think a lawyer would be smart enough not to write things on his blog that look like death threats, but apparently not.

  141. 141
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    linky?

  142. 142
    Unaspammer

    I don’t think I can link to the saltydroid site since PZ blacklisted it, but it’s in the comments in the same thread he linked in the OP.

  143. 143
    Ichthyic

    Hir’s writing is incoherent and unfocused to the point of incomprehensibility.

    which brings up another issue.

    Salty claims to be an attorney?

    really?

    I find that VERY hard to believe.

  144. 144
    Ichthyic

    or I’ll see him in hell.

    oh, that just has to be intentional satire.

  145. 145
    Ichthyic

    Too many otherwise respected people have sincerely recommended that book as live-saver

    I used to have fights, and I mean to the point of mutual verbal abuse, with my high school english teacher over that book.

    fucking idiot.

    yeah, he still pisses me off 30 years later :P

    hell, he’s probably dead.

  146. 146
    Gaebolga

    Paltry ‘Roid wrote:

    And I am willing to “bury the hatchet” … my demands are obvious. PZ Myers will take down that post about Anthony Navarro … and he’ll issue an apology … or I’ll see him in hell.

    The goldmine of funny continues to produce!

    Sounds like the ‘Roid is trawling for more of that sweet, sweet web traffic….

    Paltry ‘Roid intended to write:

    My ::demands:: are obvious .. the guy with a vastly more popular blog will ::send:: more ::visitors:: to my site … and hill take me ::seriously:: … or I’ll do ::absolutely:: ::nothing:: ::at:: ::ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!::

    What a fucking moron.

    You might think a [guy who claims to be a - ed.] lawyer would be smart enough not to write things on his blog that look like death threats, but apparently not.

    Well, since he thinks calling someone an evil scumbag for making religiously inspired death threats is some kind of horrible crime, but that actually making religiously inspired death threats makes you a “traumatized public citizen cupcake” (fixed it for ya, ‘Roid!) who needs to be coddled so that their widdle feewings don’t get a boo-boo, you can color me unsurprised.

    Did I already mention that he’s a fucking moron?

    Ichthyic wrote:

    Salty Paltry claims to be an attorney?

    [Edited for snarkiness]

    Yeah, I’ve never met an attorney who was that mind-crushingly stupid, so I figure if he’s actually claiming to be one, it’s just more of the ‘Roid’s unintentionally humorous bullshit.

    No one that dumb could even understand the questions in the Bar exam, much less answer them….

  147. 147
    Clark

    The guy actually is an attorney, here’s an interview:

    http://www.seobook.com/salty-droid-interview

    SD is the role he plays while running the blog, some of his stuff I agree with, some I do not.

    If the post/comments would’ve focused on the Navarro story instead of “Well Atheism are really just hateful and fundamentalist” and “PZ isn’t as cool as he thinks he is”, it might’ve actually been nice to see two POVs put forth their arguments, but now it’s just a bag of fail.

  148. 148
    pelamun

    Yeah, I’ve never met an attorney who was that mind-crushingly stupid, so I figure if he’s actually claiming to be one, it’s just more of the ‘Roid’s unintentionally humorous bullshit.

    Then you haven’t met enough lawyers, it seems. For instance, Josef Rakofsky.

  149. 149
    pelamun

    Clark, where does he say he is a lawyer? I’ve Ctrl-F’ed for several terms, but nowhere does he say he is one..

  150. 150
    Gaebolga

    pelamun wrote:

    Then you haven’t met enough lawyers, it seems. For instance, Josef Rakofsky.

    Damn. I stand corrected.

    Back when I was an editor – before I finished grad school – I used to work for a firm that specialized in legal editing (and therefore dealt with lots of lawyers). I used to hang out with a couple of guys who were studying for the Bar, and based on what they shared with me regarding their study habits, that’s one seriously mean test.

    I wonder if ‘Roid suffered some sort of traumatic brain injury after getting certified, because he can’t seem to write a coherent sentence or string two thoughts together logically, and I can’t see how he could have passed the test writing “arguments” as pathetically as he does.

  151. 151
    Clark

    Clark, where does he say he is a lawyer? I’ve Ctrl-F’ed for several terms, but nowhere does he say he is one..

    Check his “About” page and you end up on a page titled “Jason and The Droid Part 2″. Can’t link to it, apparently.

    Though it would probably be more accurate to say that he’s licensed to practice law, but doesn’t appear to be actually working as a lawyer.

  152. 152
    pelamun

    Thanks, Clark, it was on the saltydroid website. It also says he has a BA in biology and is an agnostic. Well, his attitude reminds of myself when I was an agnostic, frowning on those presumptuous atheists being so sure about that there is no God..

  153. 153
    Clark

    Well, his attitude reminds of myself when I was an agnostic, frowning on those presumptuous atheists being so sure about that there is no God

    Yeah, all those ruthless atheists visiting dying people and harassing them because of their faith!

    Never met them, but they come up in every apologist argument, so they surely must be everywhere.

    It’s kind of sad, usually the comments on SD are pretty good, especially about insiders in the “get rich quick” area, but this one emptied my monthly supply of facepalms quicker than Deepak Chopra explaining quantum [insert any term].

  154. 154
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    Clark:

    …this one emptied my monthly supply of facepalms quicker than Deepak Chopra explaining quantum [insert any term].

    Ducks.

    Quantum ducks.

  155. 155
    Clark

    Ducks

    That shouldn’t be a hard topic for Chopra, after all he’s pretty familiar with quackery.

    (Bad one, I know)

  156. 156
    Vicki, duly vaccinated tool of the feminist conspiracy

    Another amusing book on punctuation: The Well-Tempered Sentence: A punctuation handbook for the innocent, the eager, and the doomed, by Karen Elizabeth Gordon (who might disagree with my punctuation of the subtitle).

  157. 157
    Alley-Cat

    Disciples of Myers!

    The God-fearing Hordes are at it again.

    The obsessive compulsive kook site is using your revered one as a chew toy!

    Pure sacrilege!

    They have no respect for free-thinking liberals who ejaculate godlessly.

    Quick start hitting the thumbs down icons, that really worked last time didn’t it?

    Unaspammer please don’t forget to use that haiku form verse again. That really impressed them.

    o/

  158. 158
    myeck waters

    Wow, Alley-Cat, you really don’t get it, do you?

  159. 159
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat meant to write:

    Paltry ‘Roid needs to increase his web traffic!

    Please come over to his site! We’re desperate!

    Help us!

    Fixed for ya, moron!

  160. 160
    Rey Fox

    It seems to me that it’s good to have an obsessive-compulsive cook, because then you know that the meals will be prepared to exacting specifications.

    What?

  161. 161
    Alley-Cat

    What?

    I don’t get that you are a pretentious bunch of sycophants who exist solely to feed the ego of your narcissistic almighty leader?

    Nope didn’t get that.

  162. 162
    KG

    Ducks.

    Quantum ducks. – nigelTheBold, Wagering against Pascal

    Qucks?

  163. 163
    Alley-Cat

    Watch it Rey Fox mate, or you’ll have the grammar and spelling Nazis on your case.

  164. 164
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    Alley-Cat:

    I don’t get that you are a pretentious bunch of sycophants who exist solely to feed the ego of your narcissistic almighty leader?

    Oh, like we haven’t heard that one before. Why do so many trolls appear to be about 12 years old?

    Did you have an actual point, or did you merely want to flog your ignorance in public?

  165. 165
    myeck waters

    If you had actually read a few of the other threads around here, Alley-Cat, you’d know how hilariously off-base you are.

    Or perhaps not, since you are clearly an idiot.

    I give you full marks for actually writing in coherent sentences though.

    So you’ve got that going for you.

  166. 166
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    What?

    I don’t get that you are a pretentious bunch of sycophants who exist solely to feed the ego of your narcissistic almighty leader?

    Nope didn’t get that.

    Unsurprising.

    The ineffable will of the Bearded One (may his ego grow ever larger!) is beyond your petty intellect.

    Begone, blasphemer! These hallowed threads are not for thee!

    I must now return to my appointed duties, after seeking guidance from the holy Myers….

    Or something.

  167. 167
    Gaebolga

    nigel wrote:

    Oh, like we haven’t heard that one before.

    [Emphasis original]

    Well, come on now; he follows a ‘Roid on the intertoobz, so how creative or original can he possibly be?

    It’s not like he’s got any actual points he can make.

    PZ quoted Anthony Navarro’s own words to make the point that good ol’ Tony was an evil scumbag, and all the ‘Roid could come up with in response was saying “nuh uh” over and over again like a 3-year-old.

    If the ‘Roid or his dingleberries had any actual evidence that refuted PZ’s points, they’d have already posted it.

    They’re just trying to score some more traffic for ‘Roid’s useless little site by poking at a blog that has more than a handful of readers.

  168. 168
    Alley-Cat

    Fair point Myeck.

    Perhaps I could say the same about you guys not bothering to read some of the threads on the [never ever to be ever ever mentioned other site]

    Many of you just assumed we were a raving bunch of Branch Davidians or something.

    Anyway bye for now.

    By the way you guys are real meanies, calling me an idiot and moron, and after I took all that time to go and look up all those big long words on the interwebs an’ stuff. My feelings are seriously hurt now.

  169. 169
    dogeared, spotted and foxed

    http://reasoningwithvampires.tumblr.com/

    The above website teaches rudimentary grammar, punctuation and the elements of storytelling while brilliantly trashing the Twilight series. After a single day of browsing it, my nephew’s Facebook posts became legible. Highly recommended.

  170. 170
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    Alley-Cat:

    The obsessive compulsive kook site is using your revered one as a chew toy!

    Huh. Doesn’t look like he’s really using The Most Noble and Fearsome Squidly One as a chew toy. That seems more like a strawman. A very poorly constructed strawman.

    And that doesn’t look like chewing. It’s hard to tell what it is, really, since Salty Droid seems unable to communicate a coherent thesis. Looks like he’s trying to fellate himself to a poorly-draw squid while muttering “PZ, oh PZ,” really.

  171. 171
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    kerfluffle, thanks for the website. That’s going to my FB page, stat.

  172. 172
    Rey Fox

    *yawn*

  173. 173
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat wrote

    Many of you just assumed we were a raving bunch of Branch Davidians or something.

    I actually read around a bit, before I caught on that all y’all were interested in was increasing the ‘Roid’s web traffic.

    Apparently, he likes to think of himself as some sort of Internet vigilante going after those evil web scammers. Who totally kill people! It’s murder, I tells ya!

    Y’all ain’t Branch Davidians; y’all are just dumb.

    Got a kick out of his idiotic tag line:

    Paltry ‘Roid apparently believes:

    …you can’t make money online

    Yeah. Sure.

    There’s a few (million) porn sites that might disagree….

  174. 174
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    By the way you guys are real meanies, calling me an idiot and moron, and after I took all that time to go and look up all those big long words on the interwebs an’ stuff. My feelings are seriously hurt now.

    See, this is why y’all are a bunch of fucking morons.

    PZ makes his point and backs it up with quotes from the evil scumbag in question and links to verify the accuracy of said quotes.

    Y’all then just say “not true,” fail to provide any evidence that PZ’s claim is indeed not true, then conspicuously continue to fail to provide any evidence that PZ’s claim is not true while going on about how he goes into hospitals to pester dying people because they believe in god (while, of course, failing to provide any evidence that he has ever done so), then blatantly keep on failing to provide any evidence that PZ’s claim is not true while trying to stir up crap.

    It’s almost like you don’t actually have any evidence that PZ’s claims aren’t true….

    Which is, as I said above, why y’all are a bunch of fucking morons.

  175. 175
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    Many of you just assumed we were a raving bunch of Branch Davidians or something.

    I made no such assumption. However, several of his readers did come over here and demonstrate what idiots they are. Such as comments
    66, 98, 157 in this thread, and 160, 163, 173 in the linked thread.

  176. 176
    Alley-Cat

    Oh dear did I get put in that nasty dungeon?

    The site doesn’t seem to be accepting posts from me anymore :(

  177. 177
    Alley-Cat

    I know I’m an imbecilic moron an’ stuff, but I got all curious about the traffic thing.

    Could one of you kind (obviously more intelligent (I know ‘cos you told me) folks) explain this to me:

    Never ever ever to be mentioned site

    Global Rank: 13,188
    Rank in US: 3,352
    Sites linking in: 1,165

    This site

    Alexa Traffic Rank: 41,398
    Traffic Rank in US: 7,171
    Sites Linking In: 103

    [stats from Alexa dot com]

  178. 178
    Alley-Cat

    Ahhh it was because the web address of the [never ever ever to be mentioned site] was included.

  179. 179
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    Alley-Cat,

    See post 121.

  180. 180
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Oh dear did I get put in that nasty dungeon?

    The site doesn’t seem to be accepting posts from me anymore :(

    And you haz a sad now.

    Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

    Do you actually have any evidence that refutes PZ’s identification of Anthony Navarro, Jr. as an evil scumbag?

    Do you have any evidence that any of PZ’s claims are false?

    No?

    What a freakin’ surprise…

  181. 181
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Never ever ever to be mentioned site

    [Emphasis original]

    Salty Droid website!

    Salty Droid website!

    Paltry ‘Roid website!

    I believe the term you were looking for was “linked to,” not “mentioned.” That’s precisely the sort of intellectual rigor we’ve come to expect from the dingleberries.

    So, do you have any actual evidence that refutes any of the points PZ made regarding Anthony Navarro?

    No?

    Of course not.

  182. 182
    Gaebolga

    Erulóra Maikalambe wrote:

    Alley-Cat,

    See post 121.

    Good luck with that. The ‘Roid and his dingleberries don’t do “facts” or “evidence.”

    This dingle’s just trying to scare up some more web traffic for the ‘Roid. For a bunch of folks obsessed with Internet scammers, they’re going to a lot of trouble to inflate their numbers.

    They may not actually be a bunch of fundie fuckheads, but they’re about as honest….

  183. 183
    Alley-Cat

    Hmmm dingleberry, and just think. I’ve spent my life thinking it was “dangleberry”. Maybe it’s just a regional thing.

    However, it was possible to learn something from a pretentious little nitwit after all…

    To be honest I can’t be arsed to produce any evidence to refute (or not)Meyers’ points. All the background information you need about the story can be found on salty’s site.

    A couple of things for you though.

    The brother Antony is writing to is as religious, if not more so, than Antony. Indeed it was David that introduced Antony to whatever religion they shared. Whether you agree with what was written or not, what you have is one religious person writing to another in a language he perhaps thought the other would understand best.

    The reason for the letters is that David (a wannabe Internet Marketer) had abandoned/left (to be more scientific) his wife and kids to run off with another internet marketer and cut off all contact with his family. Obviously Antony came up with the idea of the “Letters to David Navarro” site as a means of trying to contact his brother. Perhaps one man’s “harassment” is another man’s expression of “desperation”.

    Had the Antony made no mention of bible verses and had simply said

    “Come home you bastard or I’m gonna come down there and kill you”

    I doubt very much that Myers would have gone anywhere near the story. It would have been written off as just another banal domestic dispute.

    At the moment the lady David Navarro is apparently partnered with both in a business and domestic arrangement sense, is providing “heartfelt” testimonials for this product:
    http://www.akashicrecordreading.com/
    Basically “soul reading” (I think). The premium package only costs $995 but supplies are limited, so hurry.

    Religion, internet scam artists and weird belief systems everywhere!

    Personally I think Meyers should have kept his dick well out of this little mess. It can only get far far worse.

    K chaps bring out the shredding machines.

  184. 184
    Rey Fox

    K chaps bring out the shredding machines.

    Nah. You want it too much.

  185. 185
    Alley-Cat

    Awwww Rey just when I was thinking of Kooking you something nice for dinner.

  186. 186
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Awwww Rey just when I was thinking of Kooking you something nice for dinner.

    The Kook Ktroll is oblivious.

  187. 187
    Gaebolga

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    To be honest I can’t be arsed to produce any evidence to refute (or not)Meyers’ points.

    Right. We already knew that.

    Moron.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    All the background information you need about the story can be found on salty’s site the never ever ever to be mentioned site.

    Yeah, except any evidence that PZ’s claims are false.

    That shit’s nowhere to be found in the ‘Roid’s incoherent word-salad.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    The brother Antony is writing to is as religious, if not more so, than Antony. Indeed it was David that introduced Antony to whatever religion they shared. Whether you agree with what was written or not, what you have is one religious person writing to another in a language he perhaps thought the other would understand best.

    All of which is completely irrelevant.

    When someone writes something like this:

    Anthony Navarro, Jr. wrote:

    Adultery is the greatest sin addressed in the bible. Realize, Dave, that you are committing adultery… Against your wife, Alison; against your children, and against God. You are guilty of the same sin as our mother and it cost her her life in the end… It cost her her soul. Her selfishness was her downfall. Do not fall into the same trap… The same spiral… The same death… The same eternity.

    [Emphasis mine]

    …it’s a bit creepy and threatening.

    But when the mother in question’s death was because her ex-husband hired someone to murder her, it moves out of creepy-ville and into death-threat-ville.

    But a fucking moron like you wouldn’t understand that.

    Unless, of course, that threat was directed at you. Then you’d probably shit your diaper.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    The reason for the letters is that David (a wannabe Internet Marketer) had abandoned/left (to be more scientific) his wife and kids to run off with another internet marketer and cut off all contact with his family. Obviously Antony came up with the idea of the “Letters to David Navarro” site as a means of trying to contact his brother. Perhaps one man’s “harassment” is another man’s expression of “desperation”.

    He made thinly veiled, religiously motivated death threats.

    Why he decided to make those threats is irrelevant.

    How he decided to deliver those threats is irrelevant.

    The indisputable fact that he made those threats is the only thing that’s relevant.

    But because you’re a fucking moron, I don’t expect you to get that.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Had the Antony made no mention of bible verses and had simply said

    “Come home you bastard or I’m gonna come down there and kill you”

    I doubt very much that Myers would have gone anywhere near the story. It would have been written off as just another banal domestic dispute.

    You’re absolutely right, for once (it’s a fucking miracle!); PZ wouldn’t have bothered with it if good ol’ Tony hadn’t decided to gussy up his death threats with religion.

    Of course, if good ol’ Tony hadn’t brought religion into the mix, I suspect he’d have had a visit from the cops….

    Glad to see you admit good ol’ Tony made some death threats against his brother. I’ll take that as a tacit admission you have no evidence that any of PZ’s claims regarding Anthony Navarro are false.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    At the moment the lady David Navarro is apparently partnered with both in a business and domestic arrangement sense, is providing “heartfelt” testimonials for this product…

    Which is, as I keep telling you, completely irrelevant to Anthony Navarro’s religiously motivated death threats.

    But as you’re a fucking moron, I’m not surprised you don’t understand why.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Personally I think Meyers should have kept his dick well out of this little mess.

    Yeah, but we’ve already established that thinking really isn’t your bag, cupcake. You should stick to doing what you do best.

    What was that, again?

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    It can only get far far worse.

    What, your “arguments”?

    That seems unlikely.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    K chaps bring out the shredding machines.

    Nah, you’re too boring.

    Since you’ve already admitted that good ol’ Tony made religiously motivated death threats against his brother, and since that’s the main crux of PZ’s post about good ol’ Anthony Navarro, there doesn’t seem to be anything else to say.

    Except that you’re marginally more honest than a creotard, since you’ve admitted that you’re full of shit.

    Of course, you’re still a fucking moron, but you’re apparently slightly more honest than a fundie fuckhead. Which isn’t saying much.

    Anyway, I think I’m done with this inanity; could someone wipe up the floor in here? There’s a whole lot of dingleberry shmutz lying about….

  188. 188
    Avo, also nigelTheBold

    Alley-Cat:

    The reason for the letters is that David (a wannabe Internet Marketer) had abandoned/left (to be more scientific) his wife and kids to run off with another internet marketer and cut off all contact with his family. Obviously Antony came up with the idea of the “Letters to David Navarro” site as a means of trying to contact his brother. Perhaps one man’s “harassment” is another man’s expression of “desperation”.

    So David Navarro is involved in something that Salty Droid doesn’t like, and starts investigating. All right. Fine and dandy.

    That still does not excuse Anthony Navarro’s creepy, religiously-based attacks on his (possible scam-artist) brother. The two issues are separate.

    Salty Droid gets upset about the thing one of the brothers is doing. PZ Myers gets upset about the thing the other brother is doing. That hardly warrants SD’s somewhat incoherent outrage at PZ. It just doesn’t make sense. PZ merely points to Anthony Navarro’s own fucking website as evidence, then mentions (for essential context) what happened to the brothers’ mom.

    Salty Droid is just being a fucking idiot in all of this. He’s probably perfectly right to go after David Navarro’s scamming. That’s a worthy goal, if David is scamming.

    That doesn’t make him right writing strangely incoherent and content-less screeds against PZ in this case.

  189. 189
    Alley-Cat

    In all seriousness, shredding is actually what you guys here seem to be best at.

    Many of you seem to spend most of your time trying to demean and deride people rather than argue,educate or debate with them.

    I suppose it’s inevitable as the teacher you look up to so much uses exactly the same tactics.

    No wonder people, also amongst atheists, say that science is taught badly in schools. If any of you guys are science teachers I feel very sorry for your pupils.

    Calling somebody or even thinking that somebody is a fuckwit or a moron because they don’t agree with your views, or simply can’t grasp them without further information or patience, is not exactly conducive to converting people from let’s say religion based creationism to scientific based evolution, for example.

    Hey, but I’m just a uneducated layman. I’m sure you guys know better.

  190. 190
    Alley-Cat

    Hmm Gaebologna’s reply is a perfect example of what my last post was about.

    Why so angry dude?

  191. 191
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Why so angry dude?

    Look in the mirror troll…

  192. 192
    Ichthyic

    SD is the role he plays while running the blog, some of his stuff I agree with, some I do not.

    not the point.

    it’s how he flails at expressing his views that’s relevant.

    would YOU hire him as an attorney?

    I sure as hell wouldn’t.

  193. 193
    Alley-Cat

    @gaebologna

    I fart

    in your

    general direction

    [Holy grail form]

    o/

  194. 194
    Ichthyic

    Quick start hitting the thumbs down icons, that really worked last time didn’t it?

    naww, even the simple act of hitting a button wasn’t worth the effort.

    we got bored.

    we prefer actual arguments over buttons.

    but now, I guess we’re disappointed on both fronts.

    Salty’s crew has flailed as bad as Salty.

    I guess it shouldn’t have come as surprise, really.

  195. 195
    John Morales

    Alley-Cat tries to fart, and out squirts diarrhoea.

    (Scat!)

  196. 196
    Ichthyic

    Many of you seem to spend most of your time trying to demean and deride people rather than argue,educate or debate with them.

    It entirely depends on what people come in here with.

    come here with honest and interesting questions?

    you’ll find a wealth of interest and knowledge in return.

    come here with stinky cheese bait?

    you’ll find lots of forks and knives.

    typical of most places, really, though the knowledge base here is far more extensive than most.

    are you done tossing stinky cheese bait around yet?

    do you actually have anything interesting to say?

    I bet not.

  197. 197
    Alley-Cat

    Here’s a nice quote somebody on the Saltydroid blog found about Meyers disciples. To be honest I haven’t seen anything here that would contradict this view:

    PZ’s core audience is a bunch of adolescents and suspended adolescents, deeply Oedipal types who love atheism primarily because they think it upsets someone–they think it’s some kind of rebellion. The confrontation is an essential part of the ballgame for them. They and the rabid fundies are counterparts–the atheists while constantly crowing about their intellectual superiority, are nearly all intellectual mediocrities who don’t read well and can rarely make anything but the grossest kind of distinction. The rabid dogs on both sides deserve each other, really. It’s just too bad they aren’t fighting each other physically: both those herds can use some culling.

  198. 198
    Ichthyic

    so, nothing interesting to add then?

    right.

    fail is u.

    just so we’re clear.

  199. 199
    Therrin

    His name is (still) Myers.

  200. 200
    Clark

    but now, I guess we’re disappointed on both fronts.

    Pretty much.

    Usually the Droid attracts at least a couple comments that allow interesting conversations to occur, but the ones on the PZ/Navarro-thing were just embarassing.

    I was hoping to see the argument between “Dave is a/fell for MMO scammer(s)” and “All church and no play makes Anthony a dull boy” resolve on the site, but after defending atheism against strawman bullshit I kinda lost interest. It is a bit sad. Seeing two kinds of delusions destroy family ties from different directions might’ve been something motivating both groups to keep promoting rationalism and exposing frauds.

  201. 201
    Alley-Cat

    And I’ll leave you with this other atheist’s opinion of your Great Leader:

    “There are many reasons why someone is an atheist, but PZ Meyers will only accept that people must have a reason that suits him. The ‘examined life’ bullshit he spews is yet another clear example of his robot-like way of thinking. The only emotion PZ has is hate. Otherwise, he acts and speaks like a machine. In fact, he’s very much like a very limited computer. He is locked into his self-imposed, militant atheist programming and clearly doesn’t have the desire to deviate at all from the limits of that programming. He sees things as his way or the highway. Yep, just like a lot of religious zealots do. It’s no wonder that many religious people accuse people like PZ Meyers of having their own religion; the ‘religion’ of atheism, masked by an alleged basis in science. In other words, people like PZ pretend to be scientists who only think rationally and logically, but spreading blind hate and being a malignant narcissist isn’t rational or logical. When it comes right down to it, it wouldn’t matter if science even exists. PZ would still be an arrogant blowhard who expects everyone else to kiss his ass and worship his every word. PZ is as obsessed, self-righteous, and arrogant as any proselytizing street corner evangelist, or any political loudmouth like Palin, O’Reilly, or Limbaugh.”

    Nighty night o/

  202. 202
    Clark

    The only emotion PZ has is hate.

    Oh come on now. The guy is like a teddy bear stuffed with science. If you don’t like him, read Harris. There are more than enough reasons to be opposed to all kinds of religion and promote secularism in a way that fundies and apologists might deem “militant”, you just have to actually listen to the arguments before falling for buzzwords like “hate”.

  203. 203
    Alley-Cat

    @Clark

    Sorry I know I promised to go.

    I’m not sure it’s fair to say you spent the night defending atheism. Without going back through your posts, I’d say you spent your time defending Meyers.

    Two different things.

    Most people on Salty’s site wouldn’t give a fuck if you were an atheist or a Hindu. Being an arrogant prick is another matter.

  204. 204
    Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments

    Alley-Kat (See what I did there.), that quote might be useful if it had any relationship to reality.

    I am not a disciple of PZ Myers. I have been an atheist for almost thirty years. I do not love my atheism because it is “rebellious”. Hell, it is not something that I love. It is just that I see no reason to believe in any god. I am content to let people believe what they want. But when people use their religious beliefs curtail the rights and freedoms of other people, the line is drawn and opposition begins. If that makes me as bad as a fundie, you have no idea what the fuck a fundie is.

    Alley-Kat, you are not a chew toy. You are a popped balloon.

  205. 205
    John Morales

    Heh. Lucky PZ ain’t PZ Meyers!

    So, I see the Alley-Cat has realised its caterwaulings are embarrassingly feeble, so it dragged in some rotting rodents as a worshipful offering before slinking away.

    Nighty night o/

    The night is still young, and your shit-stained arsehole is showing under your tail, O feculent feline.

    (Run, run away!)

  206. 206
    John Morales

    Janine, you are charitable, to your credit.

    (More like a particularly pathetic popped poxy pustule)

  207. 207
    Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments

    John, I do not want to be standing in front of you when you say that.

  208. 208
    Ichthyic

    but after defending atheism against strawman bullshit I kinda lost interest.

    yup, that was the gist of it.

    SD posted nothing but strawmen, and the few of his supporters that came here did the same.

    how is that supposed to be interesting?

    fuck, you’d think we’d never seen strawmen before.

    Hell, most of us have flamethrowers at this point.

  209. 209
    Clark

    I’m not sure it’s fair to say you spent the night defending atheism. Without going back through your posts, I’d say you spent your time defending Meyers.

    Well, you might want to go back and read them then.

    Most people on Salty’s site wouldn’t give a fuck if you were an atheist or a Hindu. Being an arrogant prick is another matter.

    Sure, claiming that militant atheists enjoy taking the emotional support of struggling people is all right, but if the atheist shoots back and points out that speaking up against all kinds of made-up belief might take away the foundation and public support for extremists and make people realize that they’re stronger than they thought, he is being an arrogant prick. “Does not compute”, says hate computer Meyers 2.0

  210. 210
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    And I’ll leave you with this other atheist’s opinion of your Great Leader:

    “… PZ Meyers …”

    How about finding somebody smart enough to spell Myers correctly?

  211. 211
    Erülóra Maikalambe

    Most people on Salty’s site wouldn’t give a fuck if you were an atheist or a Hindu. Being an arrogant prick is another matter.

    What, they don’t like the competition?

  212. 212
    Carlie

    No wonder people, also amongst atheists, say that science is taught badly in schools. If any of you guys are science teachers I feel very sorry for your pupils.

    Calling somebody or even thinking that somebody is a fuckwit or a moron because they don’t agree with your views, or simply can’t grasp them without further information or patience, is not exactly conducive to converting people from let’s say religion based creationism to scientific based evolution, for example.

    Hey, I’m a science teacher. Know what I’ve never done? Called my students fuckwits. I’ve never even thought that any of them were fuckwits, not even the one who wrote that the purpose of leaves is to shield the stem from the sun or the one who had never heard of continental drift.

    Know what else I’ve never done? Tried to convert students away from their religion. My job is to teach them things and show them how to think like a scientist. I would be an incredibly shitty teacher if I had an agenda of trying to convert them into an entirely different worldview.

    Know what you are, Alley-Cat? A fuckwit.

  213. 213
    myeck waters

    I fine it really amusing that Alley-Cat tries to present itself as detached observer, yet its posts are seething with anger.

    It’s almost as if they’re actually someone very close to Salty.

  214. 214
    myeck waters

    Find, even. Thanks for not being a mind reader, spellchecker.

  215. 215
    John Morales

    myeck, the pusillanimous one is detached alright — from reality.

    <snicker>

  216. 216
    Gaebolga

    Okay, papers graded. Anything funny happen while I was gone?

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Most people on Salty’s site the never ever ever to be mentioned site wouldn’t give a fuck if you were an atheist or a Hindu. Being an arrogant prick is another matter.

    Bwa ha ha ha ha!

    It’s funny, ’cause your very first post on this thread (comment #157):

    Alley-Cat wrote:
    Disciples of Myers!

    The God-fearing Hordes are at it again.

    The obsessive compulsive kook site is using your revered one as a chew toy!

    Pure sacrilege!

    They have no respect for free-thinking liberals who ejaculate godlessly.

    Quick start hitting the thumbs down icons, that really worked last time didn’t it?

    Unaspammer please don’t forget to use that haiku form verse again. That really impressed them.

    o/

    …doesn’t make you sound like an arrogant prick at all.

    I guess you’re a hypocrite as well as a fucking moron. Good to know.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Calling somebody or even thinking that somebody is a fuckwit or a moron because they don’t agree with your views, or simply can’t grasp them without further information or patience, is not exactly conducive to converting people from let’s say religion based creationism to scientific based evolution, for example.

    Really? Well golly gee willikers, you might have had a point if you’d come into this thread with some actual evidence, made some actual claims, and engaged in some actual discussion instead of acting like an arrogant prick.

    But you didn’t.

    Because you’re a fucking moron.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Hey, but I’m just a uneducated layman. I’m sure you guys know better.

    There you go again, making my point for me. We’re not deriding you because you’re “a [sic] uneducated layman”; we’re deriding you because you’re a fucking moron. See, only a fucking moron thinks that calling someone “a [sic] uneducated layman” is an insult, and you’re the only one who’s used that term around here.

    We’re generally smart enough to know that everyone is “a [sic] uneducated layman” about most subjects, thanks to the vastness of human knowledge (getting vaster every day!); it’s why we don’t pretend to knowledge or expertise we don’t have around here, and why we demand that claims be backed up with actual evidence.

    Because unlike you, we’re not fucking morons.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Why so angry dude?

    Not angry, dude; mostly amused and a little annoyed. I have a fairly low tolerance for stupid, and as I’ve noted on one or two occasions, you’re a fucking moron.

    I understand why you don’t get that I’m not angry, though, seeing as how you’re a fucking moron.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    Here’s a nice quote somebody on the Saltydroid blog the never ever ever to be mentioned site found about Meyers disciples.

    Because everything everyone writes on the Internet must be true! Just look at all the times on this very thread I called you a fucking moron!

    You obviously can’t doubt such an overwhelming number of words! On the Internet!

    …oh wait, I get it. If it agrees with your opinions, it must be true, and if it contradicts your opinions, it must be false. For a minute there, I forgot that you were a hypocrite as well as a fucking moron.

    My bad.

    Won’t happen again.

    Alley-Cat wrote:

    @gaebologna

    I fart

    in your

    general direction

    [Holy grail form]

    o/

    Yeah, and your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.

    Funny thing is, if both statements were true, you’d come out the loser. You kinda suck at this insult thing.

    Probably because you’re a fucking moron.

  217. 217
    Ing

    There are many reasons why someone is an atheist, but PZ Meyers will only accept that people must have a reason that suits him. The ‘examined life’ bullshit he spews is yet another clear example of his robot-like way of thinking.

    /Snicker

    “Everyone should live an examined life and question authority”
    SD ‘GAH THAT GUY IS SUCH A TYRANT!”

  218. 218
    Lanna

    In comment #174, Gaebolga wrote:

    PZ makes his point and backs it up with quotes from the evil scumbag in question and links to verify the accuracy of said quotes.

    Sorry, I’m a Salty Droid reader, so I’m a little slow. Can you please repeat the links and remind me which quotes I can find there?

  219. 219
    John Morales

    Lanna, you’re not just a little slow, you’re glacially so.

    (The link is in the OP)

  220. 220
    Lanna

    @John

    Do you mean the link to the URL below from the September 30 post?
    http://ittybiz.com/sometimes-the-bad-guys-win/

  221. 221
    John Morales

    Lanna, no, I meant in this OP, but yes, that’s where it leads.

    Glad to see you either found it or remembered it. :)

  222. 222
    Lanna

    Why did PZ only link to that third-hand account when he could’ve linked to Anthony’s own website, Letters to Dave Navarro, which is chock full of Bible quotes? Why didn’t he link directly to the 1991 Sun Sentinel newspaper article detailing the murder?

    Don’t primary sources beat tertiary ones? Don’t mainstream press articles carry more weight than blog posts?

  223. 223
    John Morales

    Lanna, the point is that Gaebolga’s claim has been substantiated.

    How would a 1991 article (is that not the one cited in the link you provided?) be reporting on events occurring since November 2010?

    As for taking Anthony’s own claims at face value, surely you’re joking — you don’t think they might possibly be a tad self-serving?

    (If you have better sources, by all means adduce them)

    Don’t mainstream press articles carry more weight than blog posts?

    Not always; it depends. Welcome to C21!

    PS Has Anthony repudiated the letter PZ quoted?

  224. 224
    myeck waters

    No, Anthony’s been far too busy – scouring the Internet for unflattering descriptions of Myers and creating sockpuppets – to bother with trivial stuff like trying to defend the indefensible.

  225. 225
    John Morales

    [meta]

    I wonder if SD readers with the temerity to peek here can manage to see the relationship between their comments and the type of responses they elicit.

  226. 226
    Lanna

    Thanks for your patience with me, John.

    I think my glacial slowness made me misunderstand the intended meaning of “verify the accuracy of said quotes.” I thought it meant the link would point to a primary or impartial secondary original source of the quoted material.

    You are correct, the 1991 article would be uncolored by current events, and the Ittybiz post does link to the 1991 article. I thought when PZ wrote, “Anthony Navarro Sr. hired a hit man to murder her in front of her daughter and mother,” that would’ve been a good place to link directly to that impartial secondary source instead of to Ittybiz.

    I didn’t mean that you should go read the Letters site and believe all of Anthony’s claims. I meant that if you want to criticize Anthony for employing Bible quotes and religious reasoning to harass his brother, that site has lots more source material than Ittybiz, and it’s a primary source.

    Other than those two sources, no, I don’t have any better ones. I’m just a little confused why a science guy like PZ would only link to one source, and also why he would trust a third-party source tainted by rumors that she has both personal and financial vested interest in Dave Navarro.

    No, as far as I’m aware, Anthony has not repudiated the email PZ quoted. The day after the email was published on Ittybiz, he did explain his side of the “involuntarily committed” story in the SD comments. Since then, he hasn’t commented on this matter, at least not using his own name, as Myeck observes.

    Thanks for the civilized conversation and not sharpening your teeth on me.

  227. 227
    John Morales

    No worries, Lanna.

    (Welcome to Pharyngula)

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