A group of Canadians drove all the way down to Morris (OK, it’s not that far, we’re almost Canada) to interview me for a short film on non-believers. And now you can watch it!
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
I hope you showered afterward.
Raging Atheist. Nice.
___
Required,
The hell you mean by that?
Just wanted to say that I wanted to give Ashley (they lady who’s mother had recently died) a hug. I understand what she means, but I don’t feel sad that my parents are not looking over me, they are always in me, in my genes (and in any offspring I have), in social ways – the things they taught me and the values they gave me.
A much greater legacy, I think.
I’ll take that.
Bravo to the Canadians for this little film and bravo to you, PZ for participating.
I was always a questioner as a teen and when I first read about Secular Humanism in high school, it made sense to me. However, I remained a “lip-service” xtian.
In the past ten years, when I was teaching Latin, I was reading more and more about the origins and similarities of many religions in the ancient world. It became more and more clear that christianity had borrowed from so many other religions, including the religion of the Greeks, Mithraism and the cult of Isis in Egypt. I came to realize that it was just another way for men to try to explain what they could not understand.
This realization, along with the worsening bad behavior of the fundamentalists by whom I was surrounded, pushed me over into complete non-belief.
How can you be “not raised religious”, but go to Bible camp and Bible school?
Great little film.
How can you be “not raised religious”, but go to Bible camp and Bible school?
I’ve known parents who do that sort of thing so the kids can have exposure to religion(s) so that the kids can have a firm basis for making up their own minds. Sometimes, the kids aren’t raised overtly religious, but the parents have the misguided idea that their kids could benefit from VBS or whatever. Or they do it because the kid insists on going, to be with friends. Or maybe they just want the kids out of their hair for a little while–or to have them occupied while they’re doing other things.
My one stint at VBS was the summer when my highly secular grandparents were having to spend a lot of time shuffling between doctors, labs and hospitals; my grandfather was eventually diagnosed with terminal leukemia. Being as poor as they were, paying for a babysitter wasn’t an option, but there was the VBS, where we could hang out with adult supervision for very little money for an entire morning while they took care of all that.
The preacher man, I suppose to his credit, forgave me for biting him when I was four or five years old, and let me sign up. Of course, by third grade, I’d outgrown being a biter.
Sort of.
I too recently lost my mother (to essentially old age), so can sort of relate to what the one woman said in the video.
The funeral was quite heavily religious, except that virtually no one except for my elderly father was religious(it was that way for him and because that’s what she would’ve wanted), and my daughters (teens, raised stanchly religious by my X). The minister sure did use the opportunity to crack the whip and pound in all that god stuff. Water off a duck’s back…
Once the grieving was over, I have not had this sense of wanting her to be “watching over me” etc. I take more comfort in the fact that her genes are in me and others, and that the molecules she was made of are dispersed across the earth (~10e9 particles per sq cm, one colleague recently calculated), and will be recycled into all manner of living and non-living things. As are we all; we are all recycled material…made of parts of virtually every living and non-living thing that ever existed all the way back to the big bang.
And, what does she feel now? Exactly what she felt when the star(s) went supernova that gave rise to our heavy elements, the earth was forming, the 150 million years the dinosaurs ruled the planet, the K/T event that killed them, and when King Henry VIII was riding his horse.
Nice video…maybe one day my daughters will be “open” to such a thing. For now, they are thoroughly “in religion”, and seem to relish in it.
I understand what Aquaria is talking about. My grandson did first grade in a religious school, simply to keep him out of the tough, gang-controlled public school (yes, gangs in elementary schools – that’s the Texas education system!).
He’s 12 now, and in a decent public school. He’s told us that he remembers that school and recalls sitting there while being preached at and thinking “That isn’t right, and they shouldn’t be telling little kids how to think.”
We’re very proud of him for being able to think for himself and very pleased to know that he was doing so at the age of 6. My husband says that it’s a case of “know your enemy”.
Yes, religion pickles the mind.
Attracted to someone who was going there anyway. I went to an art class in Grade 1 because of that, and learned how to draw cylinders.
I’m with the first guy — “I don’t know” isn’t a failing. It’s the first step on the road (however long it may turn out to be — which is another “I don’t know”) towards “…so now we know. We think.” And the latter is about as much certainty as we can hope for, but it would never have come about without the initial “I don’t know.”
LOL! PZ Myers preaching “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”?
Does that include kicking students in the balls for their beliefs, oh pious one? Do you spew the most vulgar insults because you secretly wish to be insulted in the most vile manner? Or does this mean that once you’ve introduced your enemies to your “steel-toed boots” you will be nice to them as they writhe on the ground in agony?
I can’t decide which of your two faces I want to vomit all over right now – “brass knuckles” PZ or “I just want to give the world a big hug” PZ.
That doesn’t happen. Not even metaphorically. His students’ beliefs don’t belong in a science classroom.
Yes, because criticizing someone’s beliefs is exactly like violently assaulting them.
Fainting couch in the tool aisle, stat!
Well, that got mangled in the edit.
Here’s an idea: look up PZ on ratemyprofessor.com.
If this ball-kicking was occurring, even metaphorically, might some anonymous, bruised victim trundle on over there and tell the world about this big ol’ meanie atheist?
So frickin’ telling that “the other side” continually equates strongly-voiced opinions with violence.
Tell me, which of PZ’s two faces is always decrying “right-wing hate speech” and which of PZ’s two faces gleefully spouts hateful violent rhetoric based simply upon a persons beliefs?
No, it’s because PZ says “Do unto others…” with one of his 2 faces, and spews hateful insults with the other of his two faces. Of course PZ isn’t advocating violence. He’s just doing unto others what he constantly complains about THEM doing.
If you don’t understand the difference between “criticizing someone’s beliefs” and PZ’s hateful, spiteful, raging ad-hominem insults then you are simply a blind accolyte worshipping at the temple of the Janus of Atheism.
That sick to your stomach feeling you claim to have? Just a symptom of your religious beliefs disagreeing with reality.
Projecting… Typical religious behaviour. First your violent fantasies and then your stomach contents.
[citation needed] Emphasis mine.
[citation needed]
…and we’ll have false dichotomies for $500, Alex.
It’s early jerry, but you just might be a gift that keeps on giving.
I’ve often found that the insults a person uses tells a lot about the person delivering them. Someone who calls others “fags” is often unsure of their own manhood; same goes for “stupid”, etc. The religious decry PZ’s arguments as violence, but Xtians are the ones making death threats over the Ground Zero cross lawsuit, or other cases where atheists have made their views known in public. An atheist, on the other hand, may try to argue you to death, but that’s about it. They don’t have that sense of certainty that “God is on their side” and that any act to defend the faith is “God’s will”. That logic, the logic behind suicide bombers, gay bashers and Republikkkan candidates comes from living in the alternate reality that religion provides. Religion is not the opiate of the masses, it is their hallucinogen.
@jerry #13.
I totally understand the turmoil that you feel towards PZ’s hurling insults at cheerished beliefs, and people associated with those beliefs. That feeling is simply human nature. I’ve felt it…it is not pleasant.
Understand though, that PZ makes no threats of violence (unlike the plethora of threats he gets all the time), and is attacking crazy ideas, which, quite frankly deserve to be attacked. Of course, people spout those ideas, and since they are the ones attached to them, get attacked by association.
His approach is simply how science is done; when someone gets up and makes unsupported or outright bogus claims, those claims are subject to criticism, and the crazier the claim, the harsher the criticism. It is just the way it is done in the search for truth.
IMHO, PZ is really “doing unto others…”. If he were to make unsubstantiated claims on his blog, we’d be the first jump on and be critical, and he would expect nothing less. There’d be a tossle of ideas, probably some impassioned/heated words, and at some point, if he were convinced (through that debate), that he was in error, he’d admit the mistake.
When’s the last time some high-profile religionist got up and said, “you know, you’re right, it doesn’t make sense, and is just a bunch of crazy superstition. I’m going to get a different job.” Or, a creationist like Behe, say, “right, I finally get it, it’s a myth, boy was I blinded by my brainwashing as a child. I can’t do this shit anymore.”
No. Never happens.
That’s why PZ (and most commenters on this blog I bet) pulls no punches in criticizing bad ideas, and religion in particular.
which of PZ’s two faces gleefully spouts hateful violent rhetoric based simply upon a persons beliefs?
What hateful rhetoric? Calling your delusion a delusion? Yeah, that’s as violent as kicking you with a pair of steel-toed boots–if you’re a delusions gobshite, like you apparently are.
Tell you what, cupcake: Lying is as bad as kicking someone with a pair of steel toed boots. And you’re a fucking liar of epic propotions. That makes you the jack-booted thug, not us.
Fuck off you delusional shit stain.
Christ! Ol’ Jerry is taking that cats versus squid thing a bit far, isn’t he?
And heres a story about why athiesm is much better than religion. A california fundamentalist Chrisitian couple beat their child to death in the name of God.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/08/15/exp.ac.tuchman.punishment.cnn?&hpt=hp_c2
This is what turned me away from religion in the first place
I went to the premier of this video. Knowing all the people in the video but having no idea what they were up to all these months (they kept it super secret) I have to say that I am impressed.
To answer a question above quickly on being raised secular but attending a bible camp I have really only one answer to that. In rural Manitoba as a child you either do chores or hang out with your friends. When your friends are all at bible camp then that is where you go. The church is literally the center of the social scene.
Bravo to my friends. Well done :).
There goes jerry. Waiting for tom.
About non-religious bible-campers – maybe they are like Finnish christians. They get baptized, confirmed, married and hold their burial in the church, and that’s pretty much the extent of their religious behaviour. Except for the church tax. I was raised atheist, but wanted to go to the confirmation camp with my friends. My mum said I could go, if I would get confirmed too. So I didn’t.
@24
That video was truly heartbreaking. Fundie horror stories don’t usually shock me anymore, but this is a new high in low. Thanks for posting. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: There are many reasons why I am not religious, but shit like this is why I couldn’t be religious if I tried.
Aquaria said:
Oh, come on Aquaria. We’re talking about the guy who shrieked like a woman when Sarah Palin “targeted” congressional districts on a campaign poster. Oh yeah, that was “right wing hate speech” but when PZ blurts out:
that’s ok.
Give me a break you naive little girl. PZ is as two faced as they come and you seem silly when you try to apologize for him.
@ #29
Maybe, just maybe (no, that’s not really what I mean) the target audience of PZ’s declaration is expected to read that kind of rhetoric the way it was meant – the brass-knuckles and steel-toed boots meaning ‘unembellished words’ and ‘more unembellished words’. As in ‘stop the apologetics’. But maybe he should have added a clarification to readers like you (and maybe he even did, I can’t remember the post you are quoting). Ms. Palin definitely should have added a clarification on what ‘2nd amendment solution’ she meant, as her followers aren’t exactly rocket surgeons.
Jerry,
And you are extrapolating from that data point that PZ responds to religious nonsense the same way? Palin put cross hairs, not surveyor’s symbols, over congressional districts her group “targeted”. Her favorite mantra was “Reload!” Then after the Arizona shooting she insisted that none of her rhetoric could possibly be construed as inciting violence. The loudest Christians seem to be the ones you need to worry about the most, because violence can be an acceptable option if you are “doing God’s will.”
Jerry,
I’m still a little lost about how PZ has two faces.
Is it anything like the catholic church saying do unto others and turn the other cheek and live in christs’ image, and then raping little children or saying they are above government law and that there really wasnt much they could do about the scandals in the church?
If anything it would seem PZ is toughening up on the stupidity running rampant in our country, but that doesn’t mean he’s taking an entirely different view or showing his other face.
I wonder… if we kicked a few rapists priests in the balls, whether it might be helpful to the safety of children in our community.
Haha, jerry.
Ok, whatever advance credibility you had here, you just whole-heartedly threw it out of the window. Why should anyone bother discussing with idiots who think “woman” is an insult, and call women girls to belittle them? Pathetic.
Well, that didn’t take long.
Jerry,
Your stupid comments have already lost all credibility. Here’s why:
– Your opinions are unsupported by facts.
– You are using little girl and woman as an insult. That gives us a clue as to what type of person you are in real life.
– You are making it seem like Palin’s acts were inconsequential when they really were not. Do you watch the news?
If you want to convince anybody of anything, start backing your comments up and stop trolling.
@Alex, Tyrant of Skepsis: Yes. My sentiments exactly.
@Jerry: Trollolololo…
Following the video on YouTube is a news story about an atheist billboard in Ohio. They sent the political reporter to cover the story, which seems odd. What is remarkably stupid, however, is the comments made by the female anchor. Why would people who don’t believe in anything want to get together? And when it was explained by the political reporter that atheists would like to see other atheists in elected office, she gave the condescending “oh” remark.
They sent the political reporter because they want to frame the atheists as having an agenda beyond wanting to be accepted as who they are. It is the only way they understand their world- a driven agenda- and therefore must explain everyone’s motivations this way.
Well, Jerry, it’s in discussions with less rigid emphasis on politeness that some things about commenters become most obvious. There have been many discussions here about the use of gendered insults for example, and quite a few commenters who had used words like cunt or bitch in heated discussions have after some reconsideration announced that they would abstain from using them while happily retaining their overall belligerent tone. Do you see the difference? Nobody is perfect, and your phrasing above has reveiled that you at least have a somewhat naive view on gender roles. In combination with your mindless shouting about PZ Myers’ terrorist tendencies, not much introspective reflection on your side is to be expected…
Okay, just so we’re clear: you’re angry because PZ has apparently contradicted himself by espousing gentility, but (and this is the part that really sets you off) occasionally engaging in [allegedly] hateful speech? So you’ll counter this by showing up on his blog and engaging in hateful speech yourself, just to show him? [yes, jerry, misogyny is hateful speech]
Because you want to take a strong stand against “violent speech” and hypocricy by being a violent hypocrite?
This is sandwich-board-and-end-times-ranting confused. You need a better standard than “tu quoque” if you expect anyone to rally to your cause.
Jerry doesn’t seem to get that PZ expects his readers not to take every comment he makes literally. Compare that to say a lot of Palin fans, who are the kind of people who take the words of a certain book very literally(except when they don’t, of course), and hence may have trouble differentiating heated rhetoric from actual instructions on how to behave.
Jerry, I think your careful reply deserves one as well.
***Wrong. It was a direct quote. Now it is you who does not have the facts straight.***
A direct quote… and? Who said PZ wanted people who said he was saying stupid things to go easy on him? I have never seen PZ ask people to go easy on him.
***Hmmm. Let’s see….who was it that said “screw the polite words and careful rhetoric”?***
Why is that relevant? I am sure PZ wouldn’t mind if people went on the attack if they thought he was saying something stupid. Interesting how you assume that he wants people to be gentle with him.
***Yes, and once again you do not have your facts straight. The Arizona shooter wasn’t a Tea Partier – he was an atheist. Who knows- he might even have read PZ’s comment on an atheist blog and taken his violent, hateful rhetoric to heart.***
I don’t give a flying fuck what he was or what he didn’t believe. He acted in a way that seemed to be encouraged by that special Palin rending of the congressional map… not by the words of PZ. In fact, you have nothing to show that PZ had anything to do with this and are just pulling things out of your ass.
This is why I agree with PZ: fuck gentle words, we need to tell people they are being stupid when we believe it to be so.
***Is that how it is at freethoughtblogs? If you dissent from the herdthink you must be a troll?***
No, you’re veering off topic.
Insulting people by calling them women and little girls is, in my opinion, unacceptable. I am not afraid to tell you that you’re trolling when you act like a troll. By doing this, I am following my own conscience and not the herd.
If you want to insult me, try to make your comments more à propos.
tim gueguen: Not only is PZ writing for a different type of people, the only things I’ve ever seen as a result of reading PZ are:
– Thinking and making a written argument that you disagree.
– Screwing up polls (hardly a violent act)
– Spreading the word that people may want to think before making stupid sexist comments.
If we lived in a world where the worst thing that happens is a stern letter stating why one disagrees with a position or a nonviolent verbal argument, this world would be so goddamn good.
@ Canadian-nicely said
@ Jerry- when you start using your brain, you’ll realize how fucking stupid your rebuttals are. If you would stop and think about what you’re saying and the facts in front of you then you’ll realize PZ isn’t condoning violence. Now I have only been reading this blog for about a month, but everything I see is actually to the contrary- he wants peaceful discussion. Literal hyperbole and physical violence are completely different things… i.e calling you an idiot is literal (and, not by this blogs standards, out of line) actually kicking you in the balls is physical violence and obviously is wrong. I think this is the point you are failing to grasp. There’s a big difference, and that difference is what makes one OK, and the other VERY wrong.
Hi PZ,
Nice video. But your comment at the very end, including the WTF look on your face, was priceless.
Thanks,
Alan
False equivalence.
“Screw the polite words” does not equate to “let’s use misogynistic slurs”.
It’s not hard to think up insults that don’t put down some oppressed segment of society, you worthless shit-for-brains.
this was really boring … in some part was like: Hello my name is “Bob” and I am alcoholic. Oh I mean atheist … wrong line sorry.
Idea is good and all but…..make it amusing, intriguing.
P.S. Awesome mustache PZ.
It seems to me that what makes “people” like jerry so upset and draws them out regularly is showing non believers in an honest way and not trying to paint them as raving Stalinist paranoids. Non believers are just like everyone else not the bogyman of the preachers. it is what angers them so much about the various billboards. I would not seek out a “conversation” with our visitor in person, at least not one where we were at arms length away from each other I suspect rage is just under the surface.
Jerry you do not want a conversation with anyone that thinks different at all. If you did why would you come here all puffed up with so much indignation and heated rhetoric?
All you really want is an argument with personal insults a plenty something to give your pointless life meaning.
well, this is not the “lazey daiz” beer bar down the street there are grown ups here that have not stopped thinking and questioning everything including what they think and why.
so be careful or you will get your head handed to you.
uncle frogy
Jerry, you’ve made your point. You think PZ is two-faced. Now, be a good kid and go play in the street.
let me see if I can follow this train-wreck of logic
So If PZ isn’t advocating violence… and (according to you) he “IS doing what he constantly complains about others doing”… and what he complains about others doing is… advocating violent defense of their beliefs… then wouldn’t you be saying that the two-faced nature of PZ is that he advocates violence, even though you said he doesn’t advocate violence.
Either I’m really confused (not likely, but ok it’s possible I have been up all night staring into a microscope) or you’re making a contradictory argument (ding ding ding!)
I’m sure this is just a really stupid mistake on your part. No need to apologize, as qwerty has suggested I would much prefer it if you went and played in the street.
Jerry:
Oh, go cry yourself a river somewhere else. PZ does not use female to mean “lesser being” or as an insult, which you have done. People (this would include women, cupcake) can be crazy. They can be wackaloons. They can be idiots. They can be bigots. You’re a prime example of the last two, Jerry. Last time I looked, crazy, wackaloon and idiot aren’t gendered.
First, you use “scream like a woman” as in insult. Think about that, you fucking moron. Then it’s “little girl”. Think about that one too, you idiot. Then it’s “hysterical shrieking” – yeah, we haven’t heard that one before, oh no. :eyeroll:
You’re slinging one misogynistic slur after another and can’t stop crying about being called on it. There’s a place you’d be welcomed, Jerry. It’s called erv and it’s on Sciblogs. You’ll find all your slimy cohorts there, ready to welcome you into the slimepit. Your misogyny is not welcome here, you flaming asspimple.
1)PZ withdrew that image when it became obvious that people were interpreting it in a “suggestive” way
2) Insulting a woman != using “woman” as an insult. The former is rude, the latter is misogyny
@Alan: The Bible quotation (Genesis 34:24, in case anyone is interested) wasn’t in the original cut, but we threw it in on the second go ’round because we thought that it ended the piece on the right note. Glad you liked it! PZ was even kind enough to sign my Bible after the interview.
I know it’s a really bad idea to gawk at a wreck, still it’s just so irresistibly human. I mean, yeah, I’m stopping traffic, but I just have. to. know. how someone managed to wrap a car around the top of a light standard.
And then there’s jerry, who’s taken some personal slight (and there’s way more going on than “PZ said a baaad thing!”) and floored it, reaching maybe 185 mph before hitting the gates of Pharyngula. From his first post, I’ve had to slow down and ask “Dude! What. the. fuck.”?
When the implosion comes, it’s going to be the stuff of highlight reels.
Jerry, do you have a point to make? All I see is frothing about nothing at all in particular
You claim that PZ is two faced, that may be most humans are but at least he is somewhat consistent and not all over the map as you are
not here, especially not here. You are encouraged to use misogynistic slurs in many places on the web, places I’m sure you will be welcomed. Please save them for elsewhere. Otherwise enjoy your rants, slurs false equivalences and mopery as much as you want. I will enjoy laughing at you
jerry:
Really? In what way? Telling you to fuck off while handing you a porcupine carcass is not polite. It in no way justifies misogyny or other language based on oppressed groups. I’m failing to see how misogyny follows from being merely impolite.
I’d be really happy to hear the logic for your conclusion, though, Sweet Pea.
jerry:
Who’s Mr. Golden Rule?
@Jerry: So that fact that PZ recognised that people were misinterpreting his intentions and consequently may have been offended is “two faced”?
This is what PZ said:
Jerry, you’re an intellectually dishonest know-nothing.
that there is some serious confusion. again: insulting a woman != misogyny; he’d have to attack her for being a woman, or attack her femaleness. Neither of which he’s done.
Seriously, if you don’t know what certain concepts mean, don’t try to apply them.
jerry I have very little interest in talking shit with you it would just be helping you to “get off”
go have another drink you aint half drunk yet!
uncle frogy
wait… HA I get it now.
Conclusion 1: you’re calling PZ 2 faced because he has a picture (which he took down) of Bachmann eating a large corn dog captioned with an insinuative statement (that could be construed as sexist), and yet he doesn’t like it when people are sexist.
Conclusion 2: so you use “woman” and “little-girl” and “shrieking voice” as insults (sexist), then rant about how PZ is two faced.
maybe your inane blabbering is making me go batshit stupid and thats why I didn’t see it sooner, but wouldn’t that make you 2-faced AND a hypocrite?
tell me again why the hell I’m even bothering to respond to your inane and irrelevant drivel… oh yeah because showing you how much of a fucking IDIOT you are makes me LAUGH!
Jerry sez: “Problem with you blind acolytes is that you never bother to wonder why the guy who you follow thinks that any woman would want to be treated like that. Despicable.”
So politicians and public figures should be exempt from mockery and criticism, no matter what their agenda, ideas, or actions, simply because they are women? But it’s perfectly okay to attempt to mock men by comparing them to women. Riiiight. Keep on digging there. It’s amazing that you still insist on calling PZ two-faced and “hateful” when in all your desperation, you are just proving that you are the most two-faced, bile-spewing person here at the moment. In addition to being a moron.
Do you get a prize at GOP headquarters or the Vatican for getting the most Hypocrite Points in a month? And do you get bonus points for accruing them when accusing others of hypocrisy? Because I honestly think that that would explain a lot if it were the case.
Anteprepro- its amusing we both posted a similar argument at the same time lol, that just goes to show how obviously right we both are :)
Because using gender to represent inferiority is degrading to an entire gender and false. What’s so hard to understand about that?
jerry, jerry, jerry.
So, if PZ’s intent was to show that Bachmann was able to unhinge her jaw in a very reptilian way, which merely goes along with her cold, reptilian stare, he’s somehow misogynist?
It might’ve been a bad judgement call, Babycakes, but it certainly wasn’t misogynistic. He was belittling Bachmann because she is an evil reptilian invader bent on enslaving humanity, not because she’s female.
There really is a difference, Sweet Pea.
Dear people and jerry… Winning an internet argument is like winning the special olympics, Even is you win you’re still retarded. whatever you say to this guy he will twist words like that funny mirrors and miss the point, so whats the point.
point
it doesn’t make it ok. PZ fucked up. PZ also, unlike many people, acknowledged that he fucked up and corrected his mistake.
In a society where everyone is sexist because that’s the acculturation we get, making few mistakes, and then acknowledging them and correcting them when pointed out, is exactly what we should expect from people. sainthood? not so much.
your ableism has been noted and rejected. Do not do that again.
translation: there are no (feminist) women on pharyngula
HNS-Lasagna: Perhaps. Or perhaps it means “ECHO CHAMBER!”. The Pharyngula Horde Borg! The Hive Mind! A hundred trolls can’t be wrong, after all. And definitely not wrong in such an obvious and common fashion that different people could criticize it in the same way independent of one another. It’s a conspiracy!
And Jerry: What part of “He later realized that it was suggestive and removed the photo” don’t you fucking understand? Why don’t you fucking realize that there is nothing in PZ’s post that indicates that he was presenting it as a sexually suggestive photo? You noted yourself that the jab he took at her was comparing her to a snake, and wasn’t about lolphallus. And as has been painstakingly presented you, time and time again: insulting an individual woman for qualities unrelated to her being a woman =/= misogyny. Suggesting that being a woman or various feminine traits or female specific body parts are significant insults, however, IS. You are guilty of the latter. You are a fuckwit of the highest magnitude to shrug that off and harp on about the former being something of world-shaking significance. Grow a fucking brain.
@ starblind- its kind of like a psychological case study for me at times. I just stare at jerrys response and go… really, theres no way a rational person wouldn’t just apologize and leave at this point, they have to realize how stupid they look…. then… nope! I’m not let down, yet another stupid response from jerry trying to defend his position. it’s funny, he just ignores comments when he’s been bested and makes another stupid comment for someone to prove him wrong on.
@nigel- a wonderful explanation of the differences between the 2, but I’d bet jerry will come back with some irrelevant point as a counter arguement. Go ahead jerry, don’t let me down, I still have a little faith in humanity that you can rob me of.
Jadehawk:
Of course there aren’t, we’ve been told enough times, haven’t we?
[facepalm] Don’t do the able-ist thing here, please.
Nothing that PZ or anyone else who posts on Pharyngula justifies this level of mental derangement. I don’t mean “mental illness”, rather your behaviour here has all the hallmarks of someone with a personal grudge, who’s not bringing an argument but grinding an axe.
First it was PZ’s students who were being harmed. Next, his call for stronger rhetoric is the same as the relentless violent subtext of the Christian Dominionists. And now suddenly you’re taking up the feminist cause. PZ will be personally responsible for Global Warming by 8:00 tonight, if you have your way.
Seriously, if anyone is shrieking, it’s you.
People aren’t disagreeing with you because they’re mindless followers/acolytes/brainwashed, they’re largely disagreeing with you because you can’t make a coherent point. And you insist on making your incoherent points in a misogynistic and assholic fashion.
It is the most obvious inference to be made from your reply. If “screw the polite words” does not bear equivalence to misogynistic slurs, then it doesn’t even have internal consistency as a counterpoint.
No, that does not remotely follow.
Assuming as I must that you have jumped tracks and are now taking an individual comment as representative of a whole group: 3 of those insults are quite non-gendered and are therefore useless examples. “Witch” is more troublesome, but you will be hard-pressed to find an example in which both (i) PZ has used the term in a manner that emphasizes the femininity of the term as a negative component, and (ii) the commentariat has not called him out on it.
here’s a simple breakdown of the Bachmann-picture situation:
was posting the picture sexist? yes; “sexism”, ultimately, is measured by effects, and posting a picture like that has sexist effects.
was posting the picture misogynist? well, that depends on your definition of “misogyny”. I generally use the word to refer to prejudice against women. In that sense, it might have been subconsciously misogynist; seeing as we’re raised and acculturated in a sexist, misogynist culture, we all have subconscious misogyny we need to do battle with.
was removing it “two faced”? of course not. It’s merely the right thing to do when realizing one has fucked up.
does this incident make PZ a misogynist and/or a sexist? no. Not in any meaningful sense of that word, since he’s trying to eliminate his subconscious biases and corrects whenever they pop up. Making a mistake itself is not yet enough to proclaim someone to be sexist. Doubling down would have; repeatedly making the same mistake, indicating a refusal to learn would have. I see no evidence for such behavior.
Therefore: PZ is not a misogynist, he just fucked up and inadvertently did something sexist, and when he realized that he corrected himself.
But wait, we are also all man-hating women . . . I’m so confuse as to what trolls think we are.
private communucation to jerry
Metaphor
met·a·phor
noun /ˈmetəˌfôr/ /-fər/
metaphors, plural
1. A figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable
“Jerry, be careful or you will get your head handed to you.” –uncle frogy
2. A thing regarded as representative or symbolic of something else, esp. something abstract
“It’s early jerry, but you just might be a gift that keeps on giving.” –heliobates
/end private communication to jerry
Starblind, congratulations on making Jerry right for the first time in this thread. Jokes about the mentally disabled are the not the best way to express your beliefs that the internet is not, in fact, serious business outside of the reaches of /b/, where such casual disregard for human decency is part of the dress code. Those who comment at Pharyngula, however, tend to frown upon knee-jerk bigotry, etc.
Oh, and Jerry: I am not naive, I have been paying fucking attention to Myers posts. That photo, if it was in fact intended to be simultaneously mocking and suggestive, would be out of character given every other post I’ve seen in the last 5 years. Myers has been criticized for being TOO feminist, for fucks’ sake. And you remain an unapologetic hypocrite, I see, in your continued failure to address the fact that you attempted to insult Myers by calling him a woman. Fuck off.
Hi Jerry! Feminist atheist checking in here.
I thought that the so-called corndog photo was replusive and really pretty funny. But, then again, all of Michelle Bachmann’s photos are repulsive and pretty funny.
What the fuck is your point, exactly? PZ made a mistake, fixed his mistake and that makes him a bad person somehow?
Jesus Christ, trolls like you make me wish that Barb would come back. She was at least entertaining in her dumbfuckery.
Gyeong:
We’re all teenage girly men living in our momma’s basement.
Of course we’re all man-hating women. The trolls have spoken. We’re also all 12 year old, obese, virgin, uneducated engineers who live in our mothers’ basements.
@Anteprepro (#77): Yes.
Corndog was probably most likely due to general background sexist radiation so probably technically wrong in the Pharyngula environment which tries to be a safe zone. But it’s of the kind I normally slide for comedy and the like so I couldn’t get too personally worked up over it. Nor did I see any reason to actually argue against those arguing for it.
And considering I’ve argued something that could be construed to be “Males SHOULD have a general background level of shame for their gender” I think I qualify well as insane feminist.
Feminist atheist here (didja notice my avatar, eh?) You can read what I had to say in the right thread, idiot:
*That part had to do with my serious dislike of ‘county fair’ foodstuffs, which most definitely includes monstrous corndogs. :ick: You might note I didn’t say jack shit about the woman.
PHARYNGULA CHOOSE YOUR OWN ADVENTURE
“HELLO [PZ MYERS]. YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A DEEP DARK INTERNET BLOG FOREST! YOU HAVE IN YOUR INVENTORY [1X][BACHMAN CORNDOG PHOTO] WHICH PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT WHAT DO YOU DO?
]
]
]
]]A) REMOVE PHOTO FROM INVENTORY
]]B) IGNORE COMPLAINTS AND LEAVE PHOTO
]]C) LEAVE PHOTO AND ACKNOWLEDGE COMPLAINTS
…
What action would you have accepted as a moral action in regards to posting the photo that would not be hypocritical to you?
jerry #93:
Where in the fuck did you get that from?
yup; acknowledging that everybody is a little bit sexist/misogynist and nobody is perfect, and accepting their willingness to correct such fuckups, is totally women-hating. Using femaleness as an insult, as jerry did? of course not
*rolleyes*
point of interest: free will is as mythical as gods.
New England Journal of Shit I Made Up: Volume 15; Aug 2011. Pg 120-122
Jerry,
Was that a piss poor attempt at sarcasm?
Usually we’re accused of castrating men and giving women special treatment. Now I’m just as confused as GH.
:I want comic sans back!: I’d like to know where this sermon of PZ’s is at, where he thunders at us the laws and rules of morality, ’cause all these years, I’ve missed the damn thing. Is someone slipping up on getting all the various agendii* out again?
*yeah, yeah, I know. It’s just that we have so many. Okay, I have the atheist dogma out, but I’m not seeing the morality ground rules anywhere…
Jerry
In the midwest, photos of politician X at a state fair taking a bite of a corn dog is a very common thing. Its an attempt to show that they are just like everybody else.
Perry eating fair food
But have you ever noticed that nobody starts making sexually suggestive jokes when the candidate is male?
I would also like you to explain your “militant atheists” comment. Are you claiming that atheists are organizing militias?
I’m actually really curious what jerry etc. expect PZ or the posters here to do? invent a time-machine and undo the posting of the picture?
sure it would have been better and more conductive to a non-sexist space if that post had never existed. it was a fuckup, based on the fact that the joke PZ wanted to make was a subcultural one (Midwestern fair food) while the joke everyone perceived was a super-cultural one (sexual objectification of women). But one that post existed, the only right thing to do was to delete it, apologize, and never do it again.
I kind of doubt PZ even if he went by the Golden Rule exclusively would use the piss poor wording Jesus gave of it.
Syntax wise it’s a horrible phrasing
“Do unto others as they would have you do unto them as they do unto you” would be a better phrasing.
We’re He-men now? Jesus onna fried twinkie, I can’t keep up anymore.
I actually don’t care as it’s STILL admitting a mistake and correcting.
Ok don’t take offense as I’m asking seriously. Are you high?
And we have zits. Don’t forget the zits.
lying isn’t going to help your case.
I will point out that you’re also lying about Melissa claiming that PZ does it “continually”. Did you click on the link on the word “continually”? It was about the MRA brigade invading a thread here, not about something PZ did.
Damn, scratch the “never make sexually suggestive comments about men” comment.
I just had to read the awful comments. Now needing eye bleach.
I’m trying to find a non-ablest way to use a conventional colloquialism so bare with me here and provide criticism if need be
@Jerry
You are talking in a manner which, If you were saying this aloud in person when we were on the same public bus, I would want to change seats.
Looking at the post in question, PZ acknowledged the implications of the photo and the complaints pertaining to. He proceeded to fix it. That is better than the misogynists that the blog is used to. Your complaint is unfounded, jerry.
in fact, the post on the “continually” link criticizes Dawkins and his defenders, not PZ and the Pharyngula Horde. So, the “continually” refers to what’s going on in the atheist movement as a whole, not to PZ specifically. And you won’t find many posters here who will disagree with the assessment that there’s a fuckload of sexism in the atheist movement as a whole.
Jerry,
Okaaaaaay. Why don’t you do your own research instead of relying on a third party, Jerry? (You sound kind of pathetic.) I’ve been reading this blog for over 2 years now and I can’t recall PZ acting like a misogymist asshole, but how about you post some links and prove me wrong?
Anteprepro and Jadehawk, cascadeuse féministe I wrote rude joke take it as a joke nothing more or less. black humor.
Usually i think that in conflict you can find the truth but Im staying pessimistic this time…
I’ll light the Batsignal.
Ummm….Your hover craft is full of eels?
You got it in the reverse direction. All I’m gleaning from your comments is that you’re a knee-jerk PZ hater*. You know, there are other things on the internet to see.
* Hell, maybe this is Jinx McHue in disguise or any of the other desperate PZ groupies.
the thing is: the third party in question isn’t saying that PZ is being continually sexist, either. Jerry is twisting Melissa’s (from shakesville) words.
an ableist joke is still ableist. Knock it the fuck off.
“I didn’t think it was sexist, others correct me so I take it down.”
I’m not seeing the “It was never sexist shut up and deal”…which would actually be more in line with keeping it UP.
What is the right answer here Jerry?
But we still get out of the basement every now and then for depravity, right?
Oh, look! A straw atheist!
Listen, cupcake, when you excoriate someone for something they don’t do, you have already lost the argument. And don’t pretend to be an educated person if you think that ad hominem is an insult. What is an ad hominem insult, anyway? Is it possible to insult someone without it being about them?
An ad hominem argument is a logical fallacy with the form “<some random insult>; therefore, you’re wrong.” Example: you have bad table manners; therefore, you’re wrong about this mathematical theorem. It invokes the irrelevant.
Thanks for playing. Come back when you’ve learned something.
Are all those nasty things Jesus said about people ad hominem insults that prove he was wrong?
Jerry,
Read the stuff you post before you link it as evidence. Not only did that fail to show PZ is misogynist, to fail to disprove my assumption that you’re a jackass.
Starblind
Rude jokes are fine. Mental disabilities are not funny, nor is the word you used.
Please expand your vocabulary.
Is it before my time? When was PZ big on the Golden Rule?
Maybe Jerry is actually looking for PZ Meyers. I hear that guy is a real prick.
What with your disturbing penchant for burning strawmen – as demonstrated above – I am very tempted to call you a warlock.
Jerry, quit your pearl clutching and go out and play in the street.
Well, at least these Canadians weren’t from Premise Media, but Jerry might have worked for them before they went bankrupt.
is there any chance that thie jerry is actually someone PZ has blocked from the blog before… I mean could it be that crazy dennis markuze character?
Ing
PZ talks about the golden rule in the video for this post.
Thanks for ‘Your hovercraft..” I needed a good laugh. :)
no, jerry’s insufficiently incoherent to be M*bus.
I don’t think he’s a denizen of the dungeon either.
No, they don’t, Cupcake. You might want to brush up on Reading 101, Reading Comprehension for Dummies, then Reading Comprehension 101 and The Basics of Link Clicking on the Internet. You might not look the compleat asshole once you’re done with all that.
HNS_Lasagne:
Nah, then it would be all goats on fire! and death threats.
Tethys
I know racist, sexist, cripple, homophobic, political , redneck jokes. So do all of them have to go ? so from what I laugh ? I did not offend any person so I stay by my word and still think internet argument is pointless and instead of proven wrong I get to be insulted, its not good arguing when you attack the opponent, but not this point.
I analyzed that “steel-toed boot” quote that people were using and surprise surprise they were taking it out of context and mashing it up with something else to make it seem that PZ was advocating violence instead of action.
“Jerry” is the known spammer, troll, and idiot formerly known as “chunkdz”. He is banned and his posts have been deleted.
It’s annoying: I’m not even home yet — I just got off the plane and am on the 4 hour shuttle ride home — and I have to clean up the trash.
And those “surveyor’s marks”? They’re exactly the symbol that was superimposed over the face of Osama bin Laden when he was killed.
yes
are you seriously suggesting that the only humor you’re capable of is humor at the expense of oppressed minorities? How sad and pathetic.
yes, you did.
no one is arguing your point with you; no one cares. What we do care about is the oppressive, bigoted language you’re using. if you can’t make your point without such language, simply shut the fuck up until you can.
Two six-packs and a pizza will await you by the USB port when you get home, PZ.
huh; I guess I was wrong.
starblind
Yes.
I’m a person. I was offended. Next?
on that note: can we finally have links to the dungeon, to the listo of Mollies, etc. here at FtB, too?
Starblind:
So what?
They do if you want to post here.
Oh, how about laughing at things which are actually funny, rather than getting your jollies over things which demean people and perpetuate bigotry and sexism?
Yes, you did so offend people, several of them told you as much and told you to knock it the fuck off, idiot. You offended me, and you’re doing it still. If you want to stick to your assholery, leave or be prepared to be told you’re an idiot by a whole lot of people.
If it’s pointless to argue on the net, why in the fuck are you doing it? Shut up then and go away.
You obviously don’t know how things are done here. We do argue and we don’t give a shit about cupcakes who want to tell us it’s pointless. It isn’t pointless at all – a lot of people come around and a great many people learn a lot. We know, because they bother to stop by and tell us so.
what are the dungeon, listo of mollies, etc.?
Dude, if you can’t make a joke without denigrating something intrinsic about a group of people, then I suggest you do more studying. And why do you add “politics” in the list? Mocking a political position is not the same as mocking someone’s handicap, race, gender, sexuality etc.
If it’s pointless to argue on the net, why in the fuck are you doing it? Shut up then and go away.
ok
the dungeon is the list of people banned from pharyngula; the mollies are a monthly-ish award for “poster of the month”
also, “list of”, not “listo of”; all hail tpyos etc.
HNS_Lasagne:
Dungeon: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php
Mollies: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/molly.php
ok I would change politics to fat jokes.
starblind
Oh that makes it all fucking better… except not really at all you flaming rectal milliner.
So I was right about the deranged part, then?
Check my Gravatar, and rethink that.
*checks steel-toed shoes*
Dammit Jerry! Here I was all comfortable thinking that PZ was a good substitute for the crap I left behind. Now you’ve convinced me that people are dipshits regardless of education or supernatural ability.
Thank you for helping me realize that candidates for the Presidency of The United States should be scrutinized from all angles without prejudice.
I’ll apply that mode of thinking to all aspects of life up to and including the concept of a supreme being.
I’ll enjoy teaching my kids the skeptical enlightenment you’ve given me today.
Awesome stuff.
+1
Starblind
Check any thread on Pharyngula for excellent examples of words you can use to insult somebody without ALSO insulting entire groups of people.
Muse provided an perfect example at #138.
Look up Eddie Izzard. Notice that he manages to be fall-over-funny without putting anyone down. There are many comedians like him as well, who don’t get laughs by kicking people in the face (not many, but they are out there).
@Tethys
As it turns out, simply saying that gods are fictional tends to insult the largest group of people on the planet.
Groups require identifying names.
I get confused when I can define a group based on observation but am not allowed to give the group a label for fear of being stereotypical.
Kol
Provide a piece of concrete evidence for a god.
Any god will do, I am not fussy.
@Tethys
I can’t. I suppose that’s why one can label me as an “Atheist”.
It won’t even hurt my feelings.
Actually, only if you are using idiot logic.
Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Pastafarians, Muslims (ect) all agree that the Christian god is total bullshit.
Jews, Hindus, Atheists, Pastafarians, Christians (ect) all agree that the Muslim god is total bullshit.
Christians, Hindus, Atheists, Pastafarians, Muslims (ect) all agree that the Hebrew god is total bullshit.
Jews, Christians, Atheists, Pastafarians, Muslims (ect) all agree that the Hindu gods are total bullshit.
We Atheists seem to be in the majority. So do you have any proof to support your minority hypothesis?
starblind, you could insult juggalos they have thick skins. Of course you do so at your own risk
Kol
Your point is that you must be allowed to use hate speech?
Go ahead, I’ll go make popcorn.
broboxley OT, eh I’ll just throw them a bar magnet, a metal washer and a nickel. That ought to hold them for a while.
Um, nope, you’d be wrong. Very, very wrong. If what you posit were the case, all the religions of the world would have to be one. There are over 38,000 flavours of christianity, for pity’s sake. Each and every one of them thinks they are the True Christians™ and all the rest are deluded assholes. This doesn’t even begin to cover all the other flavours of religious belief.
Religious people do most of the insulting and giving of offense to other religious people. That and a whole lot more – think of all the religious-based wars throughout history. Not that it’s stopped as of yet.
On topic, I’d like to mention that an elderly family member and I have been having long conversations regarding topics regularly discussed here and opposing sites.
I enjoy the laughter of freedom I hear when my elderly conversation mate releases the fears imposed upon them for decades.
“If there is no doubt in you, you’ve chosen to be blind” – Elderly Person
Randide, Broboxley is our resident Juggalo. :D
@Tethys
May I call you “Religious”?
1. Religious people say that about themselves all the time.
2. Religion is not like race or gender or any of those things.
Gyeong:
Key point and one Kolcake is refusing to grok.
Yeah, I know. If he gets pissed, I may splurge and give him a horseshoe magnet and a box of paperclips.
What in the world is up with the scare quotes? It’s like when you called yourself an atheist up there, you were making sure that God knew you were doing it with your fingers crossed behind your back. Hey, guys, I’m an “Atheist” too. *WINK*
and, it should be noted, there’s also a difference between attacking ideas and attacking people, and between making an attack up the power-gradient of a society, and making an attack down the power-gradient. I do have problems with attacking the members of minority religions; but that’s not the same as attacking the ideas of those religions, or attacking those who try to establish a religion over all of us.
I have no problem, whatsoever, in distinguishing myself as an “Atheist”.
By doing so, however, my view of Reality tends to insult the believers of the supernatural.
At some point, I decided that I was no longer willing to participate in a generations-old cartoon.
The Golden Rule! Oh, goody! Whoever invented that piece of bumper sticker crap didn’t bother to try out a range of real life examples to see if “Do unto others …” really was such a good idea. In addition to all the warm fuzzy examples, it can also mean, “I shall beat the shit out of others as I would have others beat the shit out of me.” I was surprised that PZ quoted it approvingly.
Kol
May I call you willfully obtuse? Do you have a point?
Jadehawk:
I do too, however, as you say, I have no problem attacking the ideas and actions promoted by religions. One of the things which bothers me the most is just how much regular people, who basically worry and care about the same things as everyone else end up so brainwashed and deluded by religious thinking that they are willing to do actual harm to others.
“Atheist.”
;-)
I was thinking that, but couldn’t find a way to articulate it succinctly.
Kol:
Oh yes you do, Cupcake. We’ve seen people like you here before, people who just love them some scare quotes. The fact that you’re using them shows you to be a liar.
Who the hell was it that we had frothing all over before the blog move, who kept using the scare quotes?
Randide
Ask and ye shall receive.;D I had a shitty day too.
Goody, I can hang paperclips in some trolls, get some nice copper strand, wrap the horseshoe at 50 to the inch and pass some current thru it and watch the flay
Im easy to amuse
@Tethys
Sure.
My point is that none of us should be on the defensive when the restrictions of language apply to our mindsets and accurately convey our demographic.
No.
What I mean to say is that religious people are scary-funny.
That’s how I feel.
Is that “hate speech”?
Aww, now wait a minute. That sounds like way too much fun for you to do without me helping or at least watching. I’ll get the stuff.
WTF are “scare quotes”?
quotes that don’t actually quote or represent speech, but rather imply a “not really” in regards to the meaning of the word in it.
or dofferently, scare quotes are the visual equivalent of the phrase “so-called”
Kol
So what is your point in asking if you may call me “religious”?
Or pointing out that people get offended when you say you don’t believe in their god?
Or addressing me personally in the first place?
Hey, have you heard about the internet? You can actually search stuff on it! Really!
Thetys, it seems Kol is confused about the difference between insulting someone by disagreeing with their ideas, annd insulting groups of people by using slurs that label these groups as “less-than”. Kol is under the delusion we are against offending people, for some reason
Ah.
May I call you religious?
whence the desire to mislabel?
Tethys:
I have to wonder about this. Jadehawk & I are in ND, you’re in MN and we’re all surrounded by religious people. Everyone in Almont is some flavour of christian, with the exception of us. We don’t go to church and everyone knows we’re atheists. We get along just fine with everyone. No offense, no hassle. :shrugs:
I don’t presume to speak for anyone else, but you can call me whatever the hell you want. Your words, opinions and “thoughts” are meaningless around here.
Kol:
What, exactly, would the point be? Are you attempting to ask if someone would be offended if called religious?
Why do you put scare quotes around atheist and none around religious?
Why are refusing to answer any of the substantial posts directed at you?
Kol
I repeat. What is your point in asking?
Please look up obtuse in the dictionary before answering, and check the rules for commenting here while your at it.
Just testing out my newly learned syntax requirements.
I can do this!
I’m also coming up with new labels.
Kol:
You’ll need a better brain first, one able to cope with learning and comprehension.
Caine
Kol made the claim, not I.
Tethys, yes, I know that. I was taking issue with it. Sorry if you misunderstood.
Caine
Its cool. I’m just trying to be extra accurate to avoid any miscommunication.
Live and let live was the general opinion when I grew up there, even among the devout.
Indeed.
It seems to me as though “Religious” and “Atheist” tend to be diametrically opposed.
Now, it sucks that the quotation marks somehow imply something unintended. I certainly didn’t mean to “scare” or “insult” anyone.
My submission to fantasy is gone.
I suppose that’s all there is for me to say at this time.
Tethys:
Yeah, that’s been my experience here as well, which is why I used us as counter-examples. As long as no one is giving me a hard time or proselytizing at me, etc., I don’t have a problem with them and they don’t have a problem with me.
I have gotten into long conversations regarding god belief and how it affects attitudes on gay marriage or abortion and such, and I’m happy to say I’ve helped some people re-consider.
That’s why I wonder about Kol making the flat statement about offending believers left and right, because to me, that means someone is slinging slurs around, rather than simply stating they are an atheist.
Kol
Did you know a religion can also be atheist?
Belief/non-belief comes in many flavors. I am not against religion per se. I am against those who want to force their religious beliefs on society at large.
Are you going to answer my questions?
I’m offended when reality is handed to someone and they refuse to even look at it.
Yes, I will continue to label groups. Not because I have to but because it’s just too goddam obvious.
I started commenting because “Jerry” was a dipshit.
Pulled up some honest stuff and got schooled about usage of punctuation in an internet comment section.
I reiterate.
It is, in my opinion, OK to convince the deluded masses that Reality is better than contrived delusion.
Kol
Asking a stranger about their religious beliefs is rude, but I think you have realized that judging by your refusal to answer.
Welcome to Pharyngula. Its all about rational thought. Poor arguments, unsupported statements of fact, and shoddy reasoning are not tolerated here any more than gendered insults are.
Here is an example of what you can expect if you make poor arguments. Note the way that insult is used without resorting to demeaning behavior. Hopefully this will help you learn the difference between labeling a group and insulting a group.
Glenn Beck has a very silly poll
I gave up the Holy Ghost and now I have to adhere to the rules of Pharyngula?
I may actually have to talk this one up.
If you didn’t get me the first time, atheists are in the minority. At least, we feel that way.
I’ll never return to that spooky shit.
I will continue to think of superstitious morons to be just that.
@Kol: You’re right, atheists are in the minority.
Most people can’t think, most of the remainder won’t think, the small fraction who do think mostly can’t do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion — in the long run these are the only people who count.
Robert Heinlein – Time Enough For Love
Strange.
I thought Canadians all had floppy heads.
What a strange thread…
I think you should change “Godless liberal” to “Raging Atheist” in your blog’s subtitle.
I think you should change “Nakarti” to “Chromium Giraffe” but that’s just me.