And one other thing. The way Laurie Penny keeps talking about “Muslim feminists” while ignoring the existence of ex-Muslims and non-Muslims, as if no ex/non-Muslim could possibly have anything relevant to say about women’s rights and religion, or standing to say it – as if only Muslims are allowed to say anything critical of Islam, and as if all non-Muslim critics of Islam are simply racists in disguise –
– the way Laurie Penny keeps doing that –
Well imagine carrying on that way if the subject were the Vatican v women.
Imagine Laurie Penny denouncing all non-Catholic critics of the Catholic church as racists and imperialists, and then ruefully agreeing that she should have talked to some Catholic feminists. Imagine her treating all secular, atheist, ex-Catholic, Jewish and so on women who objected to the Vatican’s all-male tyranny over a big chunk of humanity as racists and colonialists.
Imagine that, then wonder what the hell she thinks she’s talking about.
She’s critical of sexism, I know. Imagine her saying that only men could criticize sexism. Imagine her saying that only capitalists can criticize capitalism. Imagine a whole bunch of parallels of that kind, and notice how grotesque they are, and wonder why she is so confused.
Does Penny name or quote any “muslim feminists”
The Laurie Penny stuff is hugely disappointing although it’s not really surprising that some feminists are acting in this way. I’ve seen it before and experienced the ‘Islamophobia’ accusation. It’s really bizarre, the assumption that every Muslim woman is completely AOK with the religion she’s been brought up in. What about all those women who may be questioning, or confused, or doubting? Does it occur to Laurie Penny that there exist women who leave Islam, or want to leave, precisely because they are feminists?
She’s critical of sexism, I know.
Selectively.
I’ve noticed there’s never an objection about Muslim men talking about Muslim women.
This issue didn’t kick off because Muslim women speakers demanded segregated audiences.
And the Vatican analogy is spot-on. The logic of speaking only on behalf of groups you belong to excludes atheists from talking about religion entirely.
And the ‘respect’ for cultural differences wasn’t an issue when we were campaigning against Apartheid. Sometimes you know something is deeply wrong – even when you are not the person being wronged.
Actually, the Catholic analogy is deeper than I realised.
When I was a student Northern Ireland was still occupied by the British army, Catholics were very definitely an oppressed minority there and there was a great deal of sectarian violence – and the Republican cause had a great deal of support among the left-wing groups of which I was part.
And never once was I expected to remain silent on the Church’s attitude to women or abortion.
Nobody ever said ‘Hey, shut up about contraception – you are playing into the British government’s colonial narrative!’
And sometimes, even when you are the person being wronged, you just don’t.
Judging someone and the quality or sincerity of their argument based upon their gender, skin tone and/or religion… isn’t there already a name for that?
Shatterface (#4):
Yes, I remember left-wingers like that. Ignorant, self-satisfied arseholes the lot of them.
(As someone who grew up with both Republican and Loyalist violence on a day-to-day basis, and was glad to leave both sets of bastards behind at the earliest opportunity)
The problem here is the same as that Judith Butler “homonationalism” nonsense. Racism, or I should say the mere perception of racism, is decidedly above gender equality and LGBT rights in the leftwing pecking order. Catholicism and capitalism are seen as “white West” entities, so they are acceptable targets.
The other day a self-desribed “lesbian and queer activist” vehemently demanded of me ” that when discussing anti-gay or homophobic laws or attitudes in other countries…you need to examine your motivations for doing so.” She even put the later part in bold.
Now replace ” anti-gay or homophobic” with “racist and segregationist” in that sentence and ask how often you have heard a person of color (which I am, a point this woman overlooked in attacking me) or Civil Rights activist challenge someone about their “motivations” for condemning racism.
The current situation is crazy. We need to stop living mired in the political bargains of the 1990’s. Fortunately looking at that Guardian articles, most liberal comments are decidedly against Penny by a significant margin.
Penny did not quote any Muslim women, and got taken to task by one for it (among other things) on Twitter.
That Storify is horrendous.