The Democrats have been releasing damning emails from the Epstein files, which is a good start. There’s nothing too surprising in them, though. We already knew Trump and Epstein were pals, we’ve always known that Trump was a nasty little sleazebag with a thing for underaged girls, and the right-wing side of the electorate has been able to ignore that all along, so I expect nothing to change. Also, the Republicans are playing the victim card and howling about it was all innocent banter and Trump didn’t do nothin’, anyhow.
Except that conservatives are hypocritically complaining about emails that expose the president for what he is, and simultaneously fishing through the emails that make Democrats look bad. I’m all for it! Expose all the dirtbags, no matter what side of the aisle they sit on.
For example, Larry Summers, good buddy to Bill Clinton and ex-president of Harvard, was quite chummy with Epstein.
Former Harvard President Lawrence H. Summers maintained a close personal relationship with convicted sex criminal Jeffrey E. Epstein until just months before his death in August 2019, according to emails released by Congress on Wednesday.
The cache, released by Republicans on the House Oversight Committee, details how Summers and Epstein regularly corresponded about women, politics, and Harvard-linked projects. They appear to have maintained a close correspondence as late as March 2019 — just months before Epstein’s arrest and death.
Some of the emails are casually venal, as when Summers tried to cajole huge financial gifts to specific projects at Harvard.
The correspondence reveals that Epstein had planned to donate $500,000 to Poetry in America — a television show and digital initiative spearheaded by Harvard English professor emerita Elisa F. New, who is married to Summers. In 2016, Epstein donated $110,000 to Verse Video Education, the non-profit organization which funds the initiative.
Cool. It’s quite the inbred tangle of scholars they’ve got there at Harvard.
We also get the slimy side of Summers, as he asks Epstein for dating advice.
In dozens of emails, Summers — corresponding from his personal account — also appears to have written to Epstein with ease about his personal life. At times, he confided in Epstein about his relationship with an unnamed woman, referring to the topic and his requests for advice as the “dear Abby issue.”
He recounted a conversation between himself and the woman to Epstein, telling him that at one point it had turned tense.
At one point, he told Epstein, the woman brushed him off with the phrase “I’m busy.” Summers told Epstein that he responded to the woman by telling her “awfully coy u are.” Summers then asked her, “Did u really rearrange the weekend we were going to be together because guy number 3 was coming,” he wrote to Epstein.
“I dint want to be in a gift giving competition while being the friend without benefits,” Summers recounted to Epstein, adding that “she must be very confused or maybe wants to cut me off but wants professional connection a lot and so holds to it.”
Epstein supported Summers’ response, saying that the woman was making Summers “pay for past errors” but “no whining showed strength.”
Oh, ick. He was trying to arrange a weekend together with this woman (remember, he’s married), and she clearly wanted nothing to do with it. Epstein praises him for his strength. Come on, this was a homely, middle-aged man hitting on a woman, not a profile in courage.
And then there is the sexism, a trait that we’ve known Summers to have for many years.
In an October 2017 email to Epstein, Summers appeared to joke to Epstein that women were less intelligent than men — and suggested that having “hit on” women should not damage one’s career prospects.
“I observed that half the IQ in world was possessed by women without mentioning they are more than 51 percent of population….” he wrote to Epstein, without elaborating further.
The message invoked one of the most controversial episodes of Summers’ career — his 2005 remarks at an economics conference suggesting that innate differences between men and women might help explain the underrepresentation of women in science and engineering at elite universities.
Yeah, fine, throw Summers under the bus. If you can hurl Bill Clinton under there at the same time, I’m not going to complain…I’m probably going to cheer. But please understand you can’t condemn Summers for being a sexist asshole without also condemning Trump.
There are emails between a NY Times reporter Landon Thomas and Epstein during the Hillary-emails period where Epstein offers photos of Trump with girls at Epstein’s parties and another where the reporter warns Epstein that another reporter is investigating him. The NY Times reported nothing.
Also, Epstein was at Mar a Lago for thanksgiving right after Trump was elected the first time, long after Trump claims the relationship was over.
Summers’s passing reference to wanting a professional connection a lot in regards to the woman he was “dating” is interesting. Sounds like a real good chance of sketchy power dynamics with a subordinate to me; all the more reason for a bit of bus throwing.
Exactly my stance on the Epstein files: Purge everyone implicated from polite and political society. Any Democrat caught in it doesn’t deserve to participate in society, much less politics.
The Trump White House is digging in its heels over these files. Makes me, and everyone else with a functioning brain, ask the obvious question : if there’s nothing to hide, release them all. Otherwise, you guys look guilty as hell. What did Trump do, rape a 13-year-old?
I’m all for removing skeevy men from positions of power.
Remember when Al Franken was forced to resign from the Senate when it became apparent that he had a habit of playing grab ass when taking photos with women?
This is literally sex trafficking of minors, and I’m actually fine with sex offenders getting permanently removed from society as a form of public health and safety . Predatory trash certainly doesn’t deserve to hold high office.
I am completely at peace if it happens that Clinton goes under the bus along with dumpster.
I’ve thought Larry Summers was an uber-creep for at least a few decades.
So long ago that I can’t even remember when or why I started to really dislike him.
Got that one right at least.
We keep hearing about who was not on pedo island. When do we get a list of folks who did visit.
John Watts @ #4: “What did Trump do, rape a 13-year-old?” As you may well know, Trump was on Howard Stern’s show in 1996 when Stern got Don talking about how young he would go. He tentatively drew the line at 13, although my interpretation of his manner was that Don was prepared to go younger but caught himself…almost like someone off camera was waving frantically to shut him up.
It doesn’t matter who did what and where, they all fucking knew. They don’t snitch anymore than anyone else, and besides they are to rich to give a fuck.
We already know Bill Clinton is a slimy human, doesn’t matter what comes out about him.
I read earlier today the House has to pass the bill to release the Epstein files, then the Senate must do the same thing and then President Trump must sign the bill. Doesn’t sound like there is much of a chance this will come to past.
Trump has made it so politicians can practice the lowest form of human decency and yet people still vote for them. Our politicians have turned their lives into a reality show; The Housewives of (name your town).
Trump could absolutely veto releasing the Epstein Files assuming both the House and Senate approve the measure first.
It will be illuminating to see how many House GOP members are willing to vote yes before it goes to the Senate. It takes 2/3rds of the House to override a presidential veto.
Scientific American has reported: Jeffrey Epstein E-mails Reveal Depth of Ties to High-Profile Scientists. I have read it all, but there’s a paragraph just on Laurence Krauss. There’s also some thing about correspondence with Noam Chomsky.
@12: Sounds like we’re going to need more guillotines.
Recursive Rabbit @ #13 — According to my highly reliable AI resources, there were as many as 12 guillotines operating in Paris at one time during the Reign of Terror. We may need more than that.
[Quite amusing how people seek the death penalty yet imagine themselves enlightened]
I don’t think they were suggesting that the guillotines were to be applied to the neck…
Ah, just benign and usual punishment. Fair enough.
I’m disappointed at the lack of imagination being shown here, THE thing all these men value is money and the power it brings. It seems to me that the obvious penalty should be the removal of that money and therefore power. I wouldn’t beggar them, I’d give them whatever state benefits they’d be entitled to and make it illegal to for anyone to supplement that. Just think of them living on a pittance for the rest of their lives, isn’t that more rewarding than chopping parts off, when we know you can build a penis with enough money.
Oh I forgot, all of that money taken off these creeps should be devoted to reducing violence against girls and women, that in itself would piss the creeps off no end.
Those are good ideas, Jazzlet.
Yes, I want all the trash taken out, and stripped of all money seems good, but I especially have my knife out (this is metaphorical, John Morales) for Summers.
I never will be over his viciousness about women in science, I know the professor at MIT who had just proven, by measuring all the lab space, that women scientists are systemically disadvantaged, and I want Summers’ every embarassing evil thought and word out there for the entire population of the world to scorn and laugh at.
Let’s shun him too, that is said to be the worst form of social punishment. Not as if I wasn’t shunning him already.
This seems like a good start.
@Jazzlet:
I like some of the bits quoted at Lawyers, Guns & Money: Elite impunity as its own reward
That really seems to pin it down to me. It wasn’t really about the money. It wasn’t even always about the women. Primarily, being around Epstein was about being treated as if they really were important and powerful and could hobnob with other important and powerful people.
Power is a drug, and Epstein helped people get high on their own supply together.
John Watts @4, there actually was a hint of a problem about that very thing.
Ronan Farrow wrote in his book about uncovering Weinstein, and Trump along the way, that at some point a lawsuit had been filed against Trump for raping a girl when she was thirteen. (under the guise of it being “consensual”.) Farrow found this case in the list of dirty stories that the National Enquirer had accumulated on Trump.
However, the suit was soon dropped by the plaintiff, there is no further documentation, and the victim disappeared (meaning, no one knows her name), so that remains just a rumor.
But, I do hope that we get solid public documentation on Trump’s raping other girls. Because, he most surely did.
[meta]
re: “but I especially have my knife out (this is metaphorical, John Morales) for Summers.”
I get metaphor. I get you.
But I also get ‘I’m just joking’ when talking about guillotining. OK?
(Seems a bit too genuine, sometimes)
Megan Kelly is claiming the victims weren’t children. They were “barely legal.”
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/11/megyn-kelly-epstein-pedophilia-russell-brand/
I expected this move. The slut-shaming will come next.
Edit: Megyn
robro #8
He drew it at 12 actually.
Akira, that’s probably true. The difficulty is that at least regarding their emotional maturity and ethics, the perpetrators were children (generally toddlers).
Akira MacKenzie
As surely as day follows night. I do wonder who’ll be the first to drop the “these girls were no angels” line?
I mean other than the prosecutors in Florida who threatened the victims with prostitution charges during questioning.
I put what is the worst things Larry Summers ever said or did into Google and got a very long list.
Now I remember why I long ago dismissed him as somebody worth avoiding at all costs.
A few highlights.
A garden variety bigot, a misogynist.
I’ve never known the president of Harvard, Summers, to be all that bright himself. In fact, I’ve always thought he was just stupid.
Summers was one of the architects of the Great Recession which killed millions of 401(K) plans, one of which was mine.
Basically, Summers has been and is a tool of Wall Street to take advantage of the rest of us.
At least Obama managed to resurrect my 401(K) plan, much to my surprise.
Walter Solomon @ #26 — “He drew it a 12 actually.” You could be right, though I took his reaction to 12 as a little more iffy than 13. Still a creepy admission on his part.
@4. John Watts : “What did Trump do, rape a 13-year-old?”
Yes – at least there’s a serious case that he did and very likely I’d say more than just one. Trump is a known rapist (E Jean Carroll) who has boasted about being able to get away with it by being rich and famous and yet he has somehow still got to be POTUS twice and is now a de facto dictator. There’s a wikipage (for now?) listing his sexual assualt crimes (I do believe all the women) here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump_sexual_misconduct_allegations
Also see :
Source : https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-katie-johnson-allegations-sexual-assault-case-dismissed-1921051
That last line should be getting more people more worried and investigating much harder I reckon.
Oh and, yeah, sod Bill Clinton! He can go under the metaphorical bus far as I’m concerned too given his history :
Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations
Plus, yes, I believe Tara Reade when it comes to Biden & what she says he did as well.
@ ^ See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_misconduct_allegation
Huh. They don’t even name her on that page. Grr..
These examples of c ar eonly the ones we ‘ve actually heard about and come to light and have to wonder if there’s been others we haven’t heard of – which seems likely. For all of them.
StevoR, what?
“Reade was one of several women who accused Biden in 2019 of “physical contact that made them feel uncomfortable, such as unwanted hugs, kisses on the head, and standing uncomfortably close”, according to ABC News.[21][22][23][24]” from your link.
Then,
“In a March 25, 2020, interview with Katie Halper, Reade alleged that Biden pushed her against a wall, kissed her, put his hand under her skirt, penetrated her with his fingers, and asked, “Do you want to go somewhere else?”[14][36] Reade told National Public Radio (NPR) for an April 19 article, “His hands went underneath my clothing and he was touching me in my private areas and without my consent.””
Very saucy.
Then, well, I’ll spare the commentary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_misconduct_allegation#Reade's_credibility_called_into_question
&https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_misconduct_allegation#Defection_to_Russia
—
Thoughtless credulity is not admirable.
Tsk
Recently released materials show Epstein stated William Clinton never visited his private “Lolita” Island.
regardless i think it’s a really safe bet that if the whole truth comes out, even the fairly jaded among us will have genuine disappointments on the list, and be overwhelmed by a worse version of that despair you get from realizing there are no good billionaires – the thought here being, can anyone at all be corrupted? at what threshold of wealth and fame do i lose my ability to see others as human? when does somebody else’s entire life start mattering less than my orgasm? when does my thinking get so lazy that i decide literally anything i do is justified, because i’m great, and therefore everything i do is ennobled?
For what it’s worth a lot of people named in Epstein’s circle would have been mere business partners with him, after all – he had a lot of money to throw around.
However, everyone knew his predilections – so I don’t look favorably on someone who would be willing to ignore all the child abuse for the money he provided them.
@35: I think that might be a necessary growing pain so that everyday people will see the harm in allowing anyone to gather vast wealth.
I’m seeing a lot of “Trump blowing Clinton” posts right now and I’m REALLY upset that I’m functionally literate because the thought of Trump doing anything makes me wanna puke… 🤢
“there are no good billionaires”
Tangent: arguably Taylor Swift acquired her billion dollars by using her talent, with (comparatively*) no exploitation of people. However. Having acquired vast wealth….what is she going to do with it? At some point, if she is not using it for the betterment of the world (or at least the US**) she will transition over into the “there are no good billionaires” category…..
she is still living in and doing business in an exploitative society with a great deal wrong with it….a society that it is very hard to live a truly ethical life in.
** A nice piece of land with a nice house, fine enough….but beyond a certain level of extravagance she wouldn’t be looking like ‘a good billionaire’.
Trump says he’s asking Justice Department to investigate Epstein’s ties to a slew of high-profile figures
Is MAGA stupid enough to fall for this? I refuse to overestimate them.
Everybody go back and re-read Bebe Melange. The second half is eloquent and spot-on.
Bébé, that really is an interesting idea.
At what point do they go over the edge? How much money, or how much poiwer, or how much money+power (they always go together), fiinally tips you over line to where you are a sociopath, never considering anyone else as a human?
Can we quanitfy this, an exact amount of money that brings a certain degree of power, or vice versa, and then forbid by law that anyone have that?
After all, a lot of these now-sociopathic Big Rich Guys started life as ordinary-economic-class people, with ordinary experiences and outlooks, so at what point did they go over the edge?
I do think that there is no escape, that everyone will respond in the same way: enough money and power and you will inevitably become a sociopath, no matter how previously human. It’s like, being shut up in the solitary confinement cell of your own billionaire mind inevitably drives you insane.
I think Bebe is likely right, though my list of billionaires who might disappoint is vanishingly small to start with.
I also think she’s right in the latter part. I suspect a lot of billionaires got there initially because they were inclined toward it, Though I imagine there are a few billionaires like Taylor Swift who have arrived there through talent and skill, without having been sociopathic to start with, there’s a difference between becoming a billionaire and staying one. After the ornamental ego trip of becoming one, what, other than power and outsized influence, does it get you? It’s nice if someone like Bill Gates has so much that he can afford to start a foundation, but how much is left? I think we tend to forget just how big some of those big numbers are in this day and age, but remember that you could stuff a billion dollars in the mattress, and live on ten million dollars a year for the rest of your life and unless you came into it at birth you’ll still die rich. At some point, I think wealth becomes useless for what most of us would consider normal desires,
I also think the Republicans are being idiots here if they expect Democrats to respond to the threat as they would. I, like many I think, would be fine with revving up the bus. These days it seems every accusation is a confession for some, so sure, we’ll be as glad to be rid of child molesting horndogs as you claim you are. Clinton’s days are over anyway. Take them all down.
I’m late to this exchange, but I wanted to add my sarcasm to the mix: the revelations about Epstein and Bill Clinton will lead me to never vote for Clinton again; the revelations about Larry Summers will lead me to never approve his appointment as Treasury Sec again.
That should fix ’em.
@33. John Morales : “StevoR, what? … (snip) .. Thoughtless credulity is not admirable. Tsk.”
I don’t think it is “thoughtless credulity” to believe people when they claim they’ve been sexually assualted. I think believing the victims should be the default position unless there is very strong reason to do otherwise.
I don’t think there is sufficient reason to disbelieve and effectively say Tara Reade is lying here.
As you noted, it fits a pattern of Biden’s reported behaviour :
Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_misconduct_allegation#Accounts_by_Reade's_associates
As for her later defecting to Russia, well :
Ibid. Emphasis added.
Reade’s defection to Russia in 2023 happened years after she made her allegations public in 2020. It doesn’t mean she wasn’t telling the truth. People making bad decisions after being sexually assualted doesn’t mean they weren’t sexually assualted. Nor does the fallibility of human memory mean it didn’t happen – as noted :
Ibid.
Of course Biden denies it but Mandy Rice Davies applies there.
(Emphasis added.)
No, very rapey. Actual sexual assualt – indeed rape.
Do I think Reade could prove her case in court? Maybe not. But I do believe her and think there is enough evidence to do so even if it doesn’t meet proof beyond reasonable doubt standards. Something which is especially hard to reach in sexual assault cases. Most of which don’t go to trial as we know.
I see no clear motive for why Tara Reade would make this up and there’s plenty of reason why women wouldn’t. False rape cases are incredibly rare as we know. That there was non-consensual sexual contact between them is easier to believe and more likely in my assessment here than that there wasn’t..I don’t understand why you don’t reach similar conclusions here.
StevoR, that you don’t think so is not an argument, it’s a reiteration. Not a disputation.
I can do that, too.
Reade was one of several women who accused Biden in 2019 of “physical contact that made them feel uncomfortable, such as unwanted hugs, kisses on the head, and standing uncomfortably close”, according to ABC News.[21][22][23][24]” from your link.
Then,
“In a March 25, 2020, interview with Katie Halper, Reade alleged that Biden pushed her against a wall, kissed her, put his hand under her skirt, penetrated her with his fingers, and asked, “Do you want to go somewhere else?”[14][36] Reade told National Public Radio (NPR) for an April 19 article, “His hands went underneath my clothing and he was touching me in my private areas and without my consent.””
Very saucy.
Then, well, I’ll spare the commentary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_misconduct_allegation#Reade's_credibility_called_into_question
&https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_misconduct_allegation#Defection_to_Russia
—
Do go on believing purely based on an accusation; I can’t stop you.
Update for you (Feb 24, 2025):
https://www.newsweek.com/tara-reade-biden-trump-doj-weaponization-patel-fbi-bondi-2035550
“Hope in GOP leaders to weed out ‘corruption’
↓
Reade left the U.S. for Moscow in May 2023. She was granted expedited asylum by the Russian government in December 2023 and remains there, working as a contributor for RT (formerly Russia Today)—a state-controlled news network funded by the Russian government.”
&
“Current and former House GOP members including Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Nancy Mace endorsed Reade testifying under oath. But beyond support expressed on social media platforms, she said, neither of the three reached out or had direct communication with her.
Reade, who has vowed to never vote for a Democrat again, said she has hope in people like Patel, Attorney General Pam Bondi and Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard to support her cause.”
@ ^ John Morales : Huh. I thought I did more than just repeat but actually stated why I believe Tara Reade namely :
(1) Because of principle that victims of sexual assault should be believed UNLESS there is convincing strong reason to do otherwise – which I do not think there is in Reade’s specific case.
(2) Biden’s behaviour matches other accounts so there is a pattern here of him doing – admittedly less outright rapey – but creepy things.
(3) Other women who knew them both believe her adding to her credibility.
Also :
(I) Bad choices Reade made later long after publicly raising her account are irrelevant. As are bad people supporting her for their own reasons. None of that means it did not happen.
(II) Biden’s denial falls under the Mandy Rice Davies* class of credibility*
(III) Motive – Reade has no obvious motive for making up anything here far as I can tell & strong reasons not to. False rape claims are exceptionally rare whilst most rapes and sexual assaults go unreported. Therefore, Occam’s Razor says it is much more likely any rape claims made will be true rather than false. Claims that rape claims are false are more extraordinary and thus require stronger evidence to disprove them than the reverse.
I don’t think you’ve addressed any of those points.
.* See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_he_would,_wouldn%27t_he%3F
Kinda cross-posting ~ish with typpos corrections & link but as noted here :
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2025/11/14/i-expect-this-to-be-the-official-excuse-soon/comment-page-1/#comment-2284240
It also seems likely – according to tonight’s epsidoe of Planet America here – Donald Trump backflips on Epstein files amid MAGA rift (31 mins long.) with an intervew with a Gloria Allred; lawyer for Epstein’s victims* and hosts that Trump will declare an official investigation into Bill Clinton’s name being on there (& probly other Democrats / leftwingers / others he dislikes) and then use that to say its being investigated and therefore use that as an excuse to NOT release anything after all esp not involving him.
.* See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Allred
One of these is not like the others:
Lucy Flores (2014): Said Biden kissed her on the back of the head at a campaign event, making her uncomfortable.
Amy Lappos (2009): Claimed Biden touched her face and rubbed noses at a fundraiser, which she found inappropriate.
D.J. Hill (2012): Said Biden placed his hand on her shoulder and moved it down her back during a photo, making her uneasy.
Caitlyn Caruso (2016): Reported Biden rested his hand on her thigh and hugged her for too long at an event on sexual assault.
Ally Coll (2008): Described Biden complimenting her smile and squeezing her shoulders during a photo, which she found invasive.
Sofie Karasek (2016): Felt Biden violated her personal space during a photo after a sexual assault awareness event.
Vail Kohnert-Yount (2013): Said Biden shook her hand, held it, and commented on her attractiveness in a way she found uncomfortable.
Tara Reade (1993): Alleged Biden sexually assaulted her by pinning her against a wall and digitally penetrating her.
@ ^ John Morales :Yes, as I noted – Biden behaved in creepy and boundary pushing ways before which then escalating into an actual digital rape in Tara Reades case.
Assume she’s telling the truth because probabilities are that she is.
It isn’t unusual that offenders target a particularly vulnerable person and whilst tetsing the boundaries with others back off when they perceive they are rejected there and seek easier targets.
That there might be other instances that haven’t come out remains a possibility.
Many other women who knew them both believe Reade too.
False rape claims are vanishingly rare exceptions with the majorityof rapes and sexual assaults going unreported meaning Occams Razor and probability suggest almost all rape claims are true and extarordinary evidnece or at least real strong evidence is needed to show any given rape claim is false.
Do you have any strong actual evidence to show Reade is lying. What motive do you think she has for doing so given the cost of making such claims women know they face?
A price in Reade’s case that has included facing the disbelief of many supposedly on her “side” of politics and I think likely from her perspective driven her out of the country and into Russian exile. Coming forward later with her account of she she experienced has wrecked or atleats trnasformed ehr life and her mindset – okay for the worse in our views and maybe reality. It doesn;’t mean she wasn’t raped, it means as all too often the consequence sfor the victim have been vastly worse than any consequences for the perpetrator – Biden – who indeed has faced very minimal impact on his life and career from Reade providing her first ahdn testimony of her rape.
Tara Reade faced more skepticism and disbelief and questioning about her credibility than Biden did (as you are now doing providing a further example of) despite Biden’s pattern of creepy behaviour that pushes the boundaries of or violates consent – and it is not unreasonable to think that in Reade’s specific case he got more carried away or thought he could get away with more than he usually (?) did in those seven other cases – that we know about.
Again, is there any really strong convincing evidence to say that Reade is NOT telling the truth?
Which explains in part why such rape cases seldom get reported at all let alone go to trial.
“Assume she’s telling the truth because probabilities are that she is.”
Yes, assume. Regardless of further evidence.
“@ ^ John Morales :Yes, as I noted – Biden behaved in creepy and boundary pushing ways before which then escalating into an actual digital rape in Tara Reades case.”
I put the dates of the alleged incidents. The pattern is the very opposite of escalation.
She is an extreme outlier claim, and that’s not including her subsequent actions and defection and whatnot.
Is it truly not evident to you that there’s a 15-year lacuna between the 1993 allegation and the next reported incident in 2008, followed by a marked increase in frequency through the 2010s, all of which were feelings of discomfort and of invation of privacy and touchy — but only touchy?
The pattern ain’t there. In fact, reality shows it’s the very opposite; back in 1993 he was rapey, and then 15 years later reports came out that he made women uncomfortable. Not exactly a pattern of escalation, is it?
(Well, not of frequency, technically. Is that your ”out”?)
Anomaly detection for a dataset is a thing. Extreme outliers are sus.
For example: https://arxiv.org/abs/2511.08072
Tara is sus.
—
Since you persevere, I will expand: “(1) Because of principle that victims of sexual assault should be believed UNLESS there is convincing strong reason to do otherwise – which I do not think there is in Reade’s specific case.”
I understand the principle, its basis on patriarchal power structures, etc. But here is how it is:
The principle that sexual assault victims should be believed unless there is strong reason not to epistemically functions as a reversal of the default burden of proof. It does not legally presume guilt, but it certainly does so morally and socially absent convincing counter-evidence. Prove it ain’t so, basically.
It’s certainly not a compelling argument, other than for deontologically-inclined ideologues.
It is not problematic to not lightly dismiss allegations, and to undertsand they are not generally made unless there is a good basis, but that is only a heuristic, in the end.
“Again, is there any really strong convincing evidence to say that Reade is NOT telling the truth?”
Not anymore than there is for Biden fellating a goat at his most recent birthday party.
Not any more than little fairies move all particles of mass to amuse a cosmic deity who loves to pretend gravity is a thing.
When your argument becomes that one must prove an untruth or be wrong, you’ve scraped the barrel raw.
(Epistemology!)
@ ^
We get it Morales; women should be assumed to be lying unless proven otherwise.
As Caine would have said (and did):
*spits*
(Just to be clear, in case anyone missed it, Morales is claiming a woman’s claim of sexual assault should be considered on a par with the claim, “little fairies move all particles of mass”.)
*spits*
@ ^ Silentbob : I notice & am pretty sure others here have also noticed that you are yet to answer my questions for you on the other thread from 2 days ago now here #75 :
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2025/11/13/its-all-cringe/#comment-2284121
Namely about your regular defence of the known Trump supporting troll here & your view on the use of gendered slurs. Would you please answer them or are you going to run away from doing so and /or resort to dredging up ancient history and personal attacks on me as usual yet again?
@52-53 John Morales : To quote your own words :
You then list the following claims mostly of your own invention – two manifestly absurd hypotheticals, unreasonable and in one case supernatural with Tara Reade’s personal testimony about what she says happened to her :
An extraordinary, improbable claim that has no evidence whatsoever in its favour.
Biden turned 82 almost exactly a year ago – Nov 20th – Wikipedia – and :
Source : https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/biden-rings-in-his-82nd-birthday/ar-AA1urO27
Reasonably confident that Biden’s birthday was largely recorded at least by his family and since there is no evidence for Biden being into bestiality or having access to goats on that day it seems absurd to make that specific totally baseless claim.
Not that I really needed to, but I checked Biden’s fb page and found no birthday images from last year. Not a single image of Biden with an actual goat or reference to goats from now till last year either. Also googled ‘Biden & goats’ and, interestingly enough, I actually did get a reference here! A rather significant one that I guess our non-friend “beholder” must have missed :
Source : https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/394646
An article from an Israeli paper titled ’Biden administration sanctions Israeli goat farm’ attacking Biden for – in that paper’s view – being too harsh on Israel unfairly sanctioning some of their extremist settlers and for being too kind to Palestinians.
So it seems (again & actually kinda already known albeit without the goats bit so much) one of very few connections Biden has with goats is him sanctioning an Israeli goat farm. It is not exactly a well- publicised thing and I doubt Biden particularly recalled or celebrated that in any fashion let alone caprine fellatio on his birthday last year.
Still reckon it is worth noting that some willfully ignorant, so-called “progressives” using Gaza as a convenient smokescreen (glares again at the toxic shoe-scraping-offs that is “beholder” here) constantly attack Biden for being too pro-Isreal and, yet others notably Israeli critics hate Biden for supposedly not being pro-Israel enough.
As I’m sure I noted pre-election, Netanyahu and Israel’s right-wing extremists as well as the Christian Zionists like current USA ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee (thanks “Beholder” you won that one you know) were totally in Trump’s favour and helping and cheering Trump and the Repugs on and attacking Biden because he was less genocidal and more pro-Palestine than the ONLY alternative.
Confirmed by Trump ending sanctions on Israeli settlers including that goat farm and resuming arms supplies that Biden withheld. So, yet again, good fucking job Abandon Biden-Harris dropkicks who voted Trump, direct or indirect, or didn’t vote at all coz Gaza and becoz they wanted to hurt actually-not-so-genocidal-Israeli-settler-sanctioning-Joe! (Does that really need a sarc tag?)
Anyhow, no one is seriously making that highly improbable claim of Biden fellating goats and there is no evidence for it or any suggestion of it being real. Imagine the well deserved skepticism and mockery of anyone that would make that claim without substantial evidence!
This is a claim involving supernatural beings which contradicts known physics and thus obvs isn’t true. Maxwell’s Demon is not a claim that is made seriously these days and requires extraordinary evidence indeed as per the Sagan standard. It seems like a hypothetical exercise like Russell’s Teapot or the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_extraordinary_evidence
You contrast that with a very different, genuine claim of very different and vastly more plausible and probable nature :
Which is, sadly, an ordinary – non-supernatural, non extraordinary – serious claim with an actual account by a real victim.
Statistically, it most likely Tara Reade is telling the truth. It is entirely naturalistic and probable based on some of Biden’s other – okay, later as far as we know about – actions.
Based on those dates I ‘spose we could speculate that Biden reacted to his choice to rape Reade by not being as rapey as that again in future? Maybe, he thought about what he had done and realised he’d gone too far and then restrained himself more afterwards. Maybe he was nearly seen, realised he was very lucky to get away with it and so was scared of doing further such digital rapes? Maybe he genuinely repented although his later behaviour still showed he had issues with respecting consent. Only Biden (& maybe his Catholic Confessor priest at the time too?) really knows for sure assuming she is telling the truth as I do based on the probabilities and the victim’s account.
It is also notable that you haven’t addressed the fact of Reade’s lack of motive vs cost for speaking out or that her latter actions are NOT relevant to her experience of rape by Biden as noted in my #47 upthread.
I do not think it is unreasonable in the slightest to still believe Reade’s account & think on the basis of statistics, known reality and credibility plus the support of some of her co-workers that it is most probable that her account is mostly or entirely accurate.
I do not think that assessment is “thoughtless credulity” as you described believing a rape victim’s personal if hard to verify outside of her own testimony in #33 and I think :
Fixed it for you from your #53. Italics = John Morales, bold = StevoR.
It is notable that we do not usually consider victims of crime to be liars when they relate the crimes they’ve experienced – outside of sex crimes.
Via birgerjohansson & just seen ontelly here Colbert’s monologue on this – Jeffrey Epstein: Trump’s A Bad Guy | “Bubba” Was Neither A Clinton Nor A Horse | Trump: I Don’t Care – 11 mins long.
I see Summers is now running away and saying he’s really ashamed of his palling about with Epstein. Better (decades) late than never, I guess…certainly more than Trump or any of his supporters can say.
PS: God’s balls, is anyone here really seriously questioning the credibility of Trump’s & Epstein’s victims? Lemme just remind y’all that Trump has been lying, bullshitting and scamming people for longer than any of his underage victims have been alive. There’s no way anyone can claim any of them are less credible than Donald Trump. End of argument.
@57
KFC, StevoR, step back and look at your campaign slogans for a minute.
That a genocide was facilitated at all was inexcusable and shockingly evil. I don’t subscribe to the delusional thinking that I would ever choose a candidate that is for (paraphrasing here) “far fewer, far BETTER genocides”.
Think about why advocating for torture was wrong back when you were endorsing that, and then think about why a supposedly “less genocidal” genocide is also wrong.
“PS: God’s balls, is anyone here really seriously questioning the credibility of Trump’s & Epstein’s victims?”
No. Neither Trump nor Epsteins. Pay attention!
Also, not “victims”. The direct questioning is of the remarkable degree of credulity StevoR grants one alleged victim’s mutating claims. I made specific objections to Stevor’s weak reasons for his ideological belief.
That is the one point in the dataset that is an extreme outlier in both time and kind and degree.
I don’t buy it, and the subsequent history is rather sus too.
Sniffing hair or touching shoulders or invading personal space during functions (every other known case) is not aggressive assault and penetration.
The circumstances were in the article StevoR adduced @32.
(BTW, stupid unwarranted over-generalisations and misrepresentations are not admirable)
(sigh)
To not leave you hanging, StevoR, I inform you that you seem confused to me.
The proposition at hand is “When your argument becomes that one must prove an untruth or be wrong, you’ve scraped the barrel raw.
(Epistemology!)”
The illustration I used was a set of two (arbitrary) things that have to be proven untruthful.
The simile was to you claiming the accused must prove their innocence once an accusation is made.
—
Hm. Maybe think of Sagan’s The Dragon in My Garage to try to grok to what I refer.
It’s a meta-epistemic criticism, not a claim about innocence of Tara.