Really, I don’t blame you.
Can I move in with you, instead?
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Really, I don’t blame you.
Can I move in with you, instead?
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That chart represents a bunch of white people Trump wants to come to America.
I‘m in there. And yes, I‘m a white person. Would’ve spent quite a lot of money as well.
But what Americans don’t seem to get: We‘re not staying away because of tariffs. They are stupid, and an own goal, and will be gone as soon as Walmart starts raising their prices. No, we‘re staying away because you have turned your country into a fascist shithole where anybody can be treated like dirt without any reason, and we feel neither safe nor welcome.
Please don‘t apologise for that. What happens right now is unforgivable. Fight it, or fuck off.
Please do come. We can always use some experienced scientists and educators.
My daughter-in-law’s parents are planning to come from France later this summer and I’m worried for them. But they are determined to make the trip because it’s 2 years since they’ve seen the grandkids. A teen-aged cousin is also slated to visit in August and friends from Poland are supposed to visit some time this year as well.
Good to see. The US needs to be completely isolated until it gets its shit together or withers, whichever comes first.
zyaama @2
Maybe you guys can join the fight. IIRC, Europe didn’t fight fascism on its land alone and, more recently, the fight against Russian aggression certainly hasn’t only been carried out by Europeans.
If the US is fascist, and it sure seems like it’s headed that way, it would be at least as much, if not more, a threat to the world as Germany was and Russia currently is.
@2 zyaama
We did that in 2001. It presumably didn’t keep you away, unless you’ve been waiting 23 years to remark on it in an ambiguous context.
Or maybe U.S. customs treats you nicely when you’re a white person with quite a lot of money.
Sure, USA under Trump right now is just like it was in 2001 under Clinton, and certainly not more fascist.
(Such a stupid thing to claim!)
In Oz: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-15/australians-appear-to-be-avoiding-travel-to-the-us/105124236
I have a spare bedroom. Velkominn til íslands!
It’s not just Europe, of course:
CBC: Canadian travel to the U.S. has plummeted. One reason why: fear
CBC: Duty-free shops struggle to make ends meet as Canadians steer clear of U.S.
CBC: Canadians are avoiding the U.S. Will its economy suffer?
@8
You’re getting your wires crossed, John. I was referring to our post-9/11 fashing up under Dubya that was never reversed, not Clinton’s lame duck session.
Nice try, though.
No crossing of any wires; pure factuality versus your bullshitty false equivocation.
A specific date (one year granularity), and as I wrote Clinton was President at the beginning of 2001 before Bush took over.
In passing, I note you inadvertently concede the ‘fashification’ (as you quaintly call it) happened due to Bush specifically.
I don’t doubt you blame Bill rather than George, since that’s your persona, but yeah, if only Bush had not been elected, eh?
No trillion-dollar wasted wars, perhaps. Who knows, with counterfactual historical speculations?
Point being, the topic at hand is the trepidation many would-be travellers going to the USA based on its ever-more authoritarian and arbitrary treatment of visitors is putting people off now, which was not a thing then.
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From my link above:
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See, that’s the difference at hand, the one you ostensibly fail to see.
People are right now being targeted and persecuted and punished for expressing negative views about the administration in a way that was never done in 2001.
So, no. You did most certainly not do that in 2001, and countries around the world were be issuing travel advisories for prospective visitors to the USA based on how they might get treated by the authorities there.
But america is so welcoming. Oh, wait…
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/australian-with-us-working-visa-detained-insulted-deported
I don’t want anyone coming here and getting trapped in the fascist police state this nation has become!
Wasn’t it the Animals in the mid 60’s that had the hit appropriate to right now:
“We’ve gotta get out of this place, if it’s the last thing we ever do!”
But, then Martha and the Vandellas drown that out:
“No where to run to, baby, nowhere to hide!”
@13 John Morales
I don’t see how that follows. Do you have me confused for someone else?
The Bush administration was a crucial part of that fashy transformation, yes. There is a reason I still consider Dubya the worst president in my lifetime, often closely contended for but likely not to be surpassed unless a commander in chief is evil enough to invade Iran and/or China, or to attempt a nuclear first strike.
I will humor you and note, however, that “Homeland Security” had overwhelming bipartisan support in the ruling class, and it still does. Bush did not act alone — plenty of Democrats revealed their illiberal tendencies and signed off on critical legislation (the continuing AUMF, the PATRIOT Act, FISA Section 702) that mortally wounded our democracy.
Nope. It’s always the Democrats’ fault, they’re as bad as the other mob, etc.
Quite familiar with your purported position.
And yet, it’s only now that people worldwide are apprehensive about visiting the USA due to a perception of arbitrary rule of “law” (I can play with quotation marks too) and lack of due process. That’s the perception.
Anyway, that’s why your claim that it happened in 2001 is bullshit.
That may have arguably helped set the stage for this Trump administration, but nobody was fearful of travelling there because it was becoming fascistic.
See this recent article for more details: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/22/travelers-rights-entering-reentering-visa-phone-search
When ever anybody discusses travel to the USA, I take the high road and try to diffuse the situation by saying “let’s not go there!”.
I have seen comments referring to the current travel problems as the “War on Tourism.”
All of this reminds me that I need ask a couple of friends from the UK if they are planning to come here this Fall, and express understanding if the answer is “NO!”.
@2 zyaama
We in the US are entering a Southern Cone Condor moment where being disappeared via helicopters into the ocean below might give pause now born citizens may become fair game. Let that sink in.
@5 and @6 Walter Solomon
Yeah deserving isolation yet hoping for intervention from abroad seems split. And as someone who used to hesitate on the f-word, we are most definitely there.
@8 John Morales
Dubya was president for most of 2001 and the key pivotal event in September which gave him such unwarranted power. I need only point to the Dixie Chicks to show how that went. But yeah as bad as Dubya and Darth Cheney were I grant things became much worse under Trump 2.0. Many of the neocons then are balking at Trump (Kristol, Cheneys…). Bill Clinton was in some ways still a conservative democrat like in the crime bill and workfare, but neither he nor Dubya came close to the fascist evil Trump represents. If it had been a yawn fest between Jeb and Hillary in 2016 and Jeb won I doubt we would have gotten close to where we are now. It would have sucked, but not in the way we FAFOed twice.
Hemidactylus, that’s basically it. I shall elaborate on my (own) view:
These things are at hand:
The end of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system#The_Bretton_Woods_system_in_the_21st_century
The end of privilege for the USA: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-13/trumps-tariffs-destroying-americas-exorbitant-privilege/105164676
…
The end of trust upon the USA nuclear umbrella.
Quite a few ends, actually, in this admin — no point elaborating, but international alliances and partnerships of all sorts are becoming worrisome given that the USA is now proven to be a whim-ruled country, with no apparent impediment from either of the other two branches to the executive.
A bit of a phase change in geopolitics, this is.
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There are many adages to the effect that trust can be destroyed very quickly for a long time, but can only be built very slowly over a long time.
(Alas for the USA, which elected Trump to power)
@18. cag : Remidns me of the old cartoon of a trvael agency with the staff inside at a desk looking at each other and asking why people keep avoiding them. One may be saying something like, maybe our slogan isn’t the best?
On their window is a big sign saying GO AWAY!
@ beholder : You helped to cause this to happen.You and the rest of the Purity Disunity mob and “Both sides as bad” liars. You are notorius here for spouting the lie that the Democrats are as bad or worse than the Repugs and for attacking only Democrats ansd never the Trump fascists. You no doubt want everyone here to forget about that. I won’t let them do so or you.to ever go unreminded of that reality which is leading to all sorts of atrocties and catastrophes as I and others warned you pre-election. You have metaphorical blood on your hands and zero credibility here.
@23
Keep tilting at those windmills, StevoR. Keep trying to convince me I did something I didn’t actually do. It would be gaslighting if it weren’t so ineptly done. You’re doing nothing except reminding us over and over that you’ve had a break with reality.
In the face of your obduracy, having zero credibility is a badge of honor.
[meta]
beholder, you do get that was a content-free ostensible “rebuttal”, right?
It’s semantics boil down to: .
That’s merely bluster, and utterly vacuous.
One thing you got right; zero credibility is your harvest after your posting history here.
People have memories, you know. No gaslighting at hand.
BTW, StevoR is not obdurate; I know him sufficiently, and he will reconsider and concede when appropriate.
He is just honest and forthright.
(You know the thing about trying to con an honest person? That’s what you are trying to do)
In the news: https://www.zeit.de/politik/2025-04/ursula-von-der-leyen-eu-usa-donald-trump-english/komplettansicht
I know you are joking.
But you should perhaps consider it for real. The USA is getting very scary.
Your governments is not respekting the courts. People are getting deported against the law.
ICE are putting foreigners in prisons without putting them before a judge.
Your president is…let’s call it unstable.
So no, i will not be visiting the US just now. Much as i like the country.
European universities are hiring, hoping to pinch some good minds from the US.
And yes, many people, me included, would be willing to provide housing temporarily for you and your family, until you found a permanent home.
Being a bit of a hoarder, I am unable to shoehorn any US expatriate into my apartment. Anyway, you need to settle in Norway, not Sweden. The Norwegian national oil money fund will make sure Norway will get through any unpleasentness that is short of a nuclear war.
@Walter Solomon Before you wish for other countries to help you get rid of your Nazis, you may want to take a look at the state of Germany in 1945. Just google cities like Hamburg, Cologne or Dresden and the year. That is what helping looked like, and that was before there were nukes. Maybe try to clean your house by yourselves first?
@everybody Why do you even interact with that troll?
A former longtime commentator on this blog is currently visiting the US from Europe, and I can report that she has not yet been detained. I did advise her against going however.
This is btw not just the cratering of the US tourism and aviation industry, but also that of science cooperation and exchange. For example, Australian emergency physicians used to go to do electives in Chicago to learn about gunshot wounds, but from what I’m hearing, that could well be over. Nobody wants to go there now.
It’s going to get worse. Many people, especially Brits, had already booked their vacations before the last election, so they’re pretty much locked in if they don’t want to deal with cancellation fees and the hassle of booking another vacation elsewhere at short notice. Next year could see another big drop in visitors.
Likewise with business trips. Policy changes take time to implement, and businesses often take a wait and see position for a while too.
@29. zyaama : “@everybody Why do you even interact with that troll?”
Can only speak for myseldf but guessing range of varying opinions and reasons depending on the individual from those that disagree they are a troll, to those using feed the troll tillthey burst tactics to those who try to make lurkers learn from interaction to those who want to goad them into getting themsleves banned, to those who .. (continue list mentally or not as you wish )
@ beholder : “having zero credibility is a badge of honor.””
A self-refuting statement.
Your own judgement of yourself and your misperceived worth is meaningless to others who know and think and are much better.
Honour is reputation and trustworthiness. You lack trustworthiness and your reputation – well, your past words and self- proclaimed deeds and the fact that we know them and you. You have no honour beholder just as you have no credibility. You are beneath contempt.Bloody hands are no badge of honour.
Hemidactylus #20
Because you’re confused. It’s not isolation for isolations sake. It’s economic punishment for bad decisions. To do otherwise would be like fighting the Nazis while continuing to do business with them which quite a few American companies (e.g. IBM, Ford, etc) actually did at the time.
zyaama @29
Just say you, and Europe generally, have no intentions in actually helping to get rid of American fascism and move one. I know what the aftermath of carpet bombing looks like as well as anyone who never experienced it firsthand can possibly know. I watch WWII documentaries like everyone else.
In that time, the help that was given to Germany was proportional to what Germany had done to other countries like Poland, UK, Spain, the USSR, and The Netherlands. The US has already given than kind of help to Iraq, Afghanistan, and, most recently, Yemen. I doubt anyone will reply in kind until it’s a white Western country that’s being bombed.