Are there actually many if any species of spider that are capable and plausibly likely to travel in ancient Viking longships surviving the tough maritime conditions (cold, seawater, salty spray, lack of prey) and challenge of Vikings and all their gear moving about for prolonged periods? Also what sort of Viking lore, if any, is there about spiders on their ships and in general I wonder?
#1: Spiders are surprisingly hardy, but most likely, we’d be dealing with egg sacs.
Tethyssays
I have not come across any mentions of spiders in the Norse corpus. There are some Anglo-Saxon fragments that mention ships being infested by dwarves, though the description of those dwarves sound a bit like gremlins who break things and attract bad luck.
The cure is to give a crew member to the anspilðewiþ in return for fair winds.
moarscienceplzsays
@#2 Silentbob
You say that like it’s some sort of “gotcha”. Here’s a quote from the Royal Museums Greenwich:
“The ships were powered by oars or by the wind, and had one large, square sail, most probably made from wool.”
If you want to argue that square sails don’t work unless the wind is behind you, you are correct, but please note the word “oars”, and remember that Roman and Greek galleys traveled all over the Mediterranean for centuries with only square sails and oars.
Tethyssays
There are Bronze Age rock carvings in Scandinavia that depict ships with masts and a single rectangular sail, in addition to the rowers.
Oddly enough, they also have the double prow design of Phoenician ships which was co-opted by Rome.
Tethyssays
Link to paper on Bronze Age metal trade between Scandinavia and the British Isles.
@#7 Tethys
“Oddly enough, they also have the double prow design of Phoenician ships which was co-opted by Rome.”
I don’t know it for sure, but I’m guessing that since they were using a steering oar instead of a tiller, having a tapered shape for the stern worked better.
BTW, this is where the terms “starboard” and “port” come from. Since most people are right-handed, lashing the steering oar, or “steer-board” to the right side of the ship worked out best. And since you didn’t want your steer-board pinned against the dock, you would always maneuver the left side of the boat to contact the port.
psanitysays
Silentbob may have been referring to the spider.
moarscienceplzsays
@#10
Ah, that’s a cute idea.
Tethyssays
@moarscienceplz
The 400-350 BC Hjortspring Mose site is rather amazing for its preservation. It’s also evidence that Northern Europeans had some highly advanced boat building technology long before Roman times. Baltic amber trade routes existed in the Bronze Age, so obviously there was an opportunity for naval/cultural cross-over between Greek and Phoenicians in the Mediterranean, and ancient Scandinavian people.
whheydtsays
re: moarscinceplz @ #9…
“Port” is a late change to avoid ambiguity when it was heard to hear what was being said. The original opposite of starboard was larboard.
willjsays
The horned helmets are a mostly a modern invention, but the blood thirsty screams are pretty accurate. Possibly the spiders too.
Are there actually many if any species of spider that are capable and plausibly likely to travel in ancient Viking longships surviving the tough maritime conditions (cold, seawater, salty spray, lack of prey) and challenge of Vikings and all their gear moving about for prolonged periods? Also what sort of Viking lore, if any, is there about spiders on their ships and in general I wonder?
She’s a square rigger, I see.
That website is…not what I expected.
https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-jubilee/
and (NSFW) https://pbfcomics.com/comics/the-jubilee/
#1: Spiders are surprisingly hardy, but most likely, we’d be dealing with egg sacs.
I have not come across any mentions of spiders in the Norse corpus. There are some Anglo-Saxon fragments that mention ships being infested by dwarves, though the description of those dwarves sound a bit like gremlins who break things and attract bad luck.
The cure is to give a crew member to the anspilðewiþ in return for fair winds.
@#2 Silentbob
You say that like it’s some sort of “gotcha”. Here’s a quote from the Royal Museums Greenwich:
“The ships were powered by oars or by the wind, and had one large, square sail, most probably made from wool.”
If you want to argue that square sails don’t work unless the wind is behind you, you are correct, but please note the word “oars”, and remember that Roman and Greek galleys traveled all over the Mediterranean for centuries with only square sails and oars.
There are Bronze Age rock carvings in Scandinavia that depict ships with masts and a single rectangular sail, in addition to the rowers.
Oddly enough, they also have the double prow design of Phoenician ships which was co-opted by Rome.
Link to paper on Bronze Age metal trade between Scandinavia and the British Isles.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00293652.2024.2357135#d1e146
@#7 Tethys
“Oddly enough, they also have the double prow design of Phoenician ships which was co-opted by Rome.”
I don’t know it for sure, but I’m guessing that since they were using a steering oar instead of a tiller, having a tapered shape for the stern worked better.
BTW, this is where the terms “starboard” and “port” come from. Since most people are right-handed, lashing the steering oar, or “steer-board” to the right side of the ship worked out best. And since you didn’t want your steer-board pinned against the dock, you would always maneuver the left side of the boat to contact the port.
Silentbob may have been referring to the spider.
@#10
Ah, that’s a cute idea.
@moarscienceplz
The 400-350 BC Hjortspring Mose site is rather amazing for its preservation. It’s also evidence that Northern Europeans had some highly advanced boat building technology long before Roman times. Baltic amber trade routes existed in the Bronze Age, so obviously there was an opportunity for naval/cultural cross-over between Greek and Phoenicians in the Mediterranean, and ancient Scandinavian people.
re: moarscinceplz @ #9…
“Port” is a late change to avoid ambiguity when it was heard to hear what was being said. The original opposite of starboard was larboard.
The horned helmets are a mostly a modern invention, but the blood thirsty screams are pretty accurate. Possibly the spiders too.