Fortunately, salvage crews work for free.
My wife & I have discussed flying out to Washington state, maybe with a side trip down the Oregon coast, but I may have to rethink that.
The Trump administration has begun firing several hundred Federal Aviation Administration employees, upending staff on a busy air travel weekend and just weeks after a January fatal mid-air collision at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
Probationary workers were targeted in late night emails Friday notifying them they had been fired, David Spero, president of the Professional Aviation Safety Specialists union, said in a statement.
The impacted workers include personnel hired for FAA radar, landing and navigational aid maintenance, one air traffic controller told the Associated Press. The air traffic controller was not authorized to talk to the media and spoke on condition of anonymity.
ATC was already understaffed. In what muddled, evil mind does firing more improve air travel safety? Unless…maybe it’s not about safety.
One FAA employee who was fired over the weekend suggested he was targeted for his views on Tesla and X, formerly Twitter, not as part of a general probationary-level sweep. Both are owned by Elon Musk, who is leading Trump’s effort to cut the federal government.
Charles Spitzer-Stadtlander posted on LinkedIn that he was fired just after midnight Saturday, days after he started getting harassing messages on Facebook.
“The official DOGE Facebook page started harassing me on my personal Facebook account after I criticized Tesla and Twitter,” Spitzer-Stadtlander wrote. “Less than a week later, I was fired, despite my position allegedly being exempted due to national security.”
He added: “When DOGE fired me, they turned off my computer and wiped all of my files without warning.”
I’ve criticized DOGE and Tesla and everything connected to Elon Musk. Will they try to revoke my tenure next?
At least innocent people wouldn’t die if I lose my job, unlike those air traffic controllers.
I was already reluctant to get on a commercial flight. No way in hell you could drag me on one now.
On the bright side, Tesla car sales are declining worldwide.
A huge number of people don’t want to buy an EV car from a crazy Nazi destroyer.
I will never buy anything even remotely associated with Elon Musk. No X, no Tesla cars, no SpaceX satellite launches.
I even trashed my Paypal account.
A lot of people feel the same way.
It’s about half the US population that Musk has alienated.
You’re state, not federal, so you should be safe from DOGE.
I’m going to regret asking this but… doesn’t the US have employment laws that forbid unfair dismissal?
The Europeans have decidely turned against Musk and Tesla cars.
Sales are down 50%.
Why should anyone buy a car from a company run by someone who seriously hates them and wishes the worst for them?
Since “Cruelty is the point…” I’m guessing that the firing of ATC workers is a dominance move to show the traveling public that the US govt will now make it more dangerous to fly.
Don’t know if they’re targeting Amtrak yet, but if you still want to head west, it might still be possible to take the Empire Builder on a nice trip from Saint Paul or Saint Cloud through Glacier National Park and to Seattle and as far down the coast as you wish to go. Maybe Bill Seymour has some insight on that.
One FAA employee who was fired over the weekend suggested he was targeted for his views on Tesla and X, formerly Twitter,
PZ said: I’ve criticized DOGE and Tesla and everything connected to Elon Musk. Will they try to revoke my tenure next?
I’ve mentioned this before, no place is safe, not even this blog. When the MUSKERs and MAGAs run out of government employees to attack, they will spew their vile on the other pockets of resistance. I still believe we (the whole world) are deep doo-doo, only when Trump’s narcissistic lunacy hurts enough of his supporters. will we see a shift in attitudes. When they figure it out will there be abundant opposition to the madness? The only question remaining is will their realization come too late, before Trump and/or Putin already have full control. Or there is all out war. Trump will justify anything he does through lies or using his saving America rhetoric. All will depend on how long the gullible people will allow themselves to be deceived. I see things this way because I do not see the current opposition putting up a powerful fight. Admittedly they are being flooded out of existence with the tsunami of lies and other BS.
“A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes”
TY MT
@ 6
No, the cruelty here is directed toward those uppity unionized proles. The inevitable plane collisions are merely collateral damage.
I just had an idea for a science fiction short story set in the apocalyptic present: somebody hacks into Doge computers and finds a bunch of actual fraud, waste and abuse.
I’m guessing that at least part of the motivation for the firing of the ATCs without warning, or a strike on, is to show that Trump is more powerful than Reagan.
I’ve been bingeing the crap out of Mayday: Air Disasters in recent weeks, and one can’t help notice how many regulations and procedures are written in the blood of crash victims. People have died in the hundreds because of lax inspection schedules, sloppy maintenance, airlines skimping on training, failing to fix known problems…
Deregulation and de-funding agencies like the FAA and the NTSB will encourage companies to pad their bottom lines by increasing the risk to consumers. The Trumps and Musks of the world, flying around on Air Force One and private jets will be fine. Airlines, looking to save money, will hire Stockton Rush-types (“at some point, safety is pure waste”) and the lack of regulations and enforcement will give these guys blank checks to make their changes.
It will take time, but we’re going to find out why you need a federal government regulating things like air travel, food safety, infrastructure, building codes and other areas. I expect carnage.
Having spent decades working in aerospace, I follow what is going on in that ‘world’. We see, as evidenced in the increased number of crashes and emergencies, the level of skill, competence and diligence declining in aircraft production, maintenance, piloting and air traffic control. The death spiral is particularly, literally evident in this area. The founder of our organization worked building components for 747’s. But, now none of us dare to fly.
I’m creating a simple cartoon of our Heroic Heretic saying:
Hey, Felon Muskrat and tRUMPhole,
only cowards fire people by E-mail
Already happening.
There is no doubt that many more people will die in the future when the Federal government is downsized.
The only question is who and how many.
.1. We are already seeing large rises in maternal mortality meaning dead women, due to the overturn of Roe versus Wade.
This rise is high enough that some states have stopped tracking it because they want to cover up the deaths of pregnant women.
.2. There is now a TB epidemic in Kansas and a measles outbreak in Texas. With antivaxxers in charge of many governments, deaths from infectious diseases will only increase.
.3. Another huge hit will come if and when the Federal government gets rid of Medicaid. A lot of rural hospitals and clinics will end up closing because of this.
The death toll isn’t known yet because the details of the cuts aren’t known yet.
Access to health care for poor people makes a huge difference in their lives.
The average life spans of US citizens has been falling in recent years. This is a sign of a society under serious stress. It’s not supposed to happen.
@3 nemo wrote: You’re state, not federal, so you should be safe from DOGE.
I reply: I’m afraid that with their meddling/destruction of all our systems, NO ONE IS SAFE.
@4 cartomancer wrote: doesn’t the US have employment laws that forbid unfair dismissal?
I reply: Yes, technically, there are federal laws and a patchwork of state laws. But, in today’s world, the MUMP cult is now IGNORING ALL LAWS AND COURT EDICTS. It’s a free-for-all controlled by petty tyrants.
Martha and the Vandellas keeps playing in my head: Nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide. We fear the social security and medicare we paid into for over 50 years may be stolen from us at any time without warning.
what @14 raven wrote is scary, but, ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
I don’t know what you’re worried about https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/L997w9dVxq
charley @ #16 — That’s Toronto Canada? No problem. When Canada becomes the 51st state, Musk and company will fix all that up.
All I can say at this point is, if there’s a major commercial airline disaster in the near future, it’s all on Trump and Musk. Blaming Biden won’t cut it. But, at the same time, would Trump even care if he received the blame? He’d deflect, deny, and denigrate somebody, anybody other than himself.
We were planning a trip to Scotland in June, but after hearing this, I’m getting cold feet. Where I live, the best transatlantic flights are out of Dulles. Unless we fly out of Richmond. But that means taking one of the legacy airlines like Delta, which will add 5–6 hours to the journey because all their overseas flights first go back to their hub at Hartsfield.
I had already decided that I was tired of playing the ‘Who’s a bomber? Not me!’ farce, combined with the ‘Let’s all try to eat expensive crappy airport food while packed into an aluminum sardine can’ game. Now to hear that President Musk is willing to kill me in order to add 0.000001% to his Scrooge McDuck money vault/swimming pool just increases my resolve to stay on the ground.
#17. Yes, there are federal employee protection laws, and yes there are lawsuits, employees have been ordered reinstated at CFPB by courts but the jobs have not been restored.
PZ said “At least innocent people wouldn’t die if I lose my job.” But will no one think of the SPIDERS?
One more thing: I join with Bernie Sanders in promoting a 100% tax on wealth in excess of $1,000,000,000.
moarscienceplz, phrasing matters; most punters will read that as “take all their wealth once it exceeds that figure”, rather than that figure is the maximal wealth as legislated. Sad to say.
Mind you, even being able to keep a mere one thousand millions of dollars is not that shabby, but the objection is that it’s but the nose of the camel.
(I mean, good grief! What if they lower that to a mere five hundred millions of dollars? Inconceivable!)
I’ve never been afraid to fly, but I might change my mind if the FAA cuts continue. Heck, we just had yet another airplane crash land in Toronto, although that was probably due to a strong cross wind.
John Watts @18: if the only consideration is how long it takes, I see your point; but another option would be to take Amtrak to New York and then catch the Queen Mary 2 across the Pond and some U.K. trains to Scotland. 8-)
Obvs if American airlines & airports become lax & dodgy safety~wise that’s going to have serious implications for air travel internationally as a whole.
Another way Musktrump is ruining the world for everyone.
Just seen on fb : DOGE =
Dumb
Oligarchs
Gutting
Everything.
[meta]
StevoR, you’re really not very good at this.
You are endorsing doomishness and despair.
Bah.
—
Here:
≡
“The oligarchs are in power”
—
That’s your actual message, the usual gloom and doom.
If you dispute that, tell me how it is not so.
So. Since you concede that, there’s no point in actually trying to prevent real and actual doom, is there?
It’s already a done thing, by implication.
(Words mean things, and despair is pointless)
[BTW: Just seen on fb ≡ I get my info from FB]
@ Morales
You’re doing the meme
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/arts/this-is-fine-meme-dog-fire.html
Acknowledging the house is on fire does not preclude trying to put it out. Nor is pretending the house is not on fire a prerequisite to putting it out. Quite the contrary.
Some info, Morales. It’s a social media site. People communicate. Of course one can get information from there. We”ve even got information from you on rare occasions, though of dubious veracity or value.
<“@ Morales
You’re doing the meme”
Nope.
You imagine I’m doing the meme, at least ostensibly.
It’s fucking obviously not fine.
Neither is it the end of the world.
(But sure, you surely imagine I am just following some “meme”. Bah)
What, this isn’t?
You are not interacting via its mediation?
Come on.
Your fallback is that I’m hyperliteral;
on the spectrum;
with low self-esteem;
but aggressive;
with a superiority complex;
but an idiot who can’t find stuff out;
who says nothing meanigful,
but says it only to troll.
—
Anyway. One of us is a troll, for sure.
@28. John Morales : BTW: Just seen on fb ≡ I get my info from FB.
Sometimes but more often form other palces. It does have its uses as I said earlier today.
OTOH, as you ‘d know by now I generally like to cite my sources and use a wide variety of them mostly different news sites eg ABC, PBS, AJ, The New Arab, Phys dot org, Space dot com, etc ..
It looks like the trolls who would sometimes take over a comment thread on Mano’s blog have found their way here.
The airline companies are also going to have problems because of Trump’s tariffs increasing the price of foreign made aircraft. In 2023 32 billion dollars of aircraft were imported into the US. The majority were probably airliners made by companies like Airbus and Embraer.
Disturbing side note – If its unsafe to fly, then there is no escape, unless its into Canada, for anything trying to get away from these crazies. Sure, Mexico is also an option, but most things in that direction are places people are fleeing from… I suppose.. flee to Mexico, then take a flight direct from there to Europe, assuming there is a direct flight, and not one that will pass through the US and land you in a combination movie of Airplane and airline disaster? So, so, so much fun to contemplate…
@Kagehi #35:
I’m sure you can catch a longship from Newfoundland to Iceland.
Trying to enforce a curfew in this way would be like dropping mines all over your own road network. Sure, you’ve successfully lowered the mobility of the people, but also of everything else that needs roads and that’ll be costly. Dictatorships have much simpler and easier means to keep people from running away.
Of course, it could be that Muskolini thinks he’s some sort of clever 4d chess player for going about it in this way.
But he and his pet dog Trumpoochy are occasionally also traveling by plane, aren’t they?
@4 Yes there are protections but Tangerine Palpatine and Muskrat are trampling right over them. For the most part, federal employees in a probationary period (usually a year) can be fired for any reason or no reason at all. In practice, that generally doesn’t happen because whatever agency hired you has usually already sunk considerable resources into hiring you and training you AND they won’t get a chance to hire your replacement until the following fiscal year, so they usually try to make it work. That said, I have seen some truly awful people get canned in their first month, but it has to be blindingly obvious that the probationary employee will never work out for that to happen–usually it will happen a few months down the road, or else the person in question (if really bad at the job in question) will either start their slow slide out of being fired for being bad at the job or else just linger and not advance. The latter usually quit because federal pay is pretty abysmal–a lot of my coworkers in relationships have one person in federal employment for the benefits and the other person has a real job with real money.
That said, there are procedures for firing someone but you have to document extensively AND offer the person in question additional training, coaching, etc. before the feds finally throw in the towel. If the person makes it past probation, it can take several years.
My union was pretty aggressive about the 2025 firings–the ink wasn’t dry on the stupid Sharpie signature when my union preemptively filed the first of multiple lawsuits. The problem is that the employee in question is out of work until the case goes to trial and gets a favorable verdict for the plaintiff. You can usually be reinstated or collect damages if you like your job in the outside world better but the process still leaves you with several years of needing a new job just so you can survive. What the current regime is doing is blatantly illegal. My union signed a contract on behalf of their bargaining unit employees, a contract that explicitly spells out what is required before you fire someone. You don’t get to suddenly change the contract because you don’t like it anymore. If the SCOTUS suddenly changes contract law, business and capitalism is over as we know it. B/c legal precedent.
For all the people on this thread who suddenly think that ground travel is the wave of the new deregulated future, let me point out all the unsafe bridges and tunnels that currently make up our transportation infrastructure. Also the crappy condition of our rail system, to say nothing of train crashes like East Palestine, PA or the fact that train conductors can’t take sick days, which means that they show up to work shedding pathogens everywhere and possibly not in any condition to work (Exhibit A: all the crashes from engineers who fell asleep at the wheel).
Also, climate change is going to make ocean travel a lot riskier and more expensive.
@ 17 When Canada becomes the 51st state (sorry Puerto Rico!) it will have approximately as many electoral votes as California.
The cult of mouthbreathers should really be more careful about what they wish for.
From Jimmy Kimmel: ‘If Canada had 54 electoral votes, our next president will be a kind-hearted lesbian moose.’
@ 34 Well, I don’t think that anyone will be buying Boeing planes anytime soon.
@ 14 Hadn’t heard about the TB outbreak in KS. Thanks for the update.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/tuberculosis-in-kansas-the-larger-picture
What you said.
Well, I don’t think Brainworm is going to greenlight any vaccine trials.
And, now we see articles about how agencies are trying to hire back ‘critically important’ employees the MUMP cult fired and they have no way of contacting them, asking those still employed who know them to try to contact them. Air traffic control will now be a bunch of clowns waving flags for the foreseeable future due to the training time needed. DON’T FLY people.