As we all know, women don’t win

The next phase of the misogynists’ process has begun. Going after trans women was just the entry point for recruiting all the conservative normies; now it’s time to go after the cis women. Ladies, you better not be too good at sports!

After one competitor “outclassed” the rest of the field in a girls’ state-level competition last year, the parents of the competitors who placed second and third lodged a complaint with the Utah High School Activities Association calling into question the winner’s gender.

David Spatafore, the UHSAA’s legislative representative, addressing the Utah Legislature’s Education Interim Committee on Wednesday, said the association — without informing the student or family members about the inquiry — asked the student’s school to investigate.

The school examined the students’ enrollment records.

“The school went back to kindergarten and she’d always been a female,” he said.

And if she hadn’t been, what would they do? Would that make it okay to target a student for investigation?

Women aren’t allowed to run too fast or play too hard or score too many points, lest they be accused of not being women. There’s another sin they must not commit.

Spatafore said the association has received other complaints, some that said “that female athlete doesn’t look feminine enough.”

Having your makeup on point and your hair prettily styled is now mandatory for all female competitors.

And for Jesus’ sake, don’t win! That would be so unladylike!


  1. Akira MacKenzie says

    Fucking Mormons!

    No, really! Nothing happens in that wasteland of a state without the permission or instigation of that stinking cult.

  2. Oggie: Mathom says

    Not just the Mormons.

    Back in the late 80s and early 90s, quite a few women in the US Army found themselves under investigation for homosexuality because they were ‘too into sports.’

  3. cgm3 says

    The obvious solution is to carry this reasoning to its logical conclusion. In any competitive contest, male or female or even (shudder) mixed, automatically eliminate those who are demonstrably more strong/fast/coordinated/skillful than others. Repeat until the field is reduced to one person, who is then winner by default.

  4. Oggie: Mathom says

    I also remember, in middle school (Cumberland Valley of Maryland (Bible Belt)) a gym teacher telling one of the best athletes in our school (she went to Clemson on a track & field scholarship and majored in nuclear physics) that girls should never exert themselves to the point that they pant, breathe hard, or sweat as this makes them look and sound like sluts. To a seventh grade girl. Who, luckily, had enough guts to ignore the teacher.

    So, yeah, a girl or woman who is good at athletics, or enjoys athletics? Something wrong. Obviously.

  5. brightmoon says

    Ballet dancers are muscular, they just make it look easy. That includes ballerinas. My late extremely misogynistic father was always accusing me of either being lesbian or of being a whore because I was passionate about dancing when I was younger. It was upsetting mainly because I m cis het and at the time a virgin ( I’m a great grandmother now). He was the type of sadistic abusive parent to throw a child in the street. So because I was athletic, I was under constant threat. I still dance, that never went away and frankly, I breathed a sigh of relief when my father died

  6. raven says

    It can get worse.
    It has been worse in the past.

    Back in the Dark Ages of the 1960s, our public schools had very little in the way of sports and sports teams for girls. No track. The only one I can remember is the swim team.
    The boys of course, had a large number of sports for all three seasons; football, cross country, swim team, basketball, baseball, track, etc..

    It wasn’t much different at the university either.
    Vast amounts of money were allocated for men’s sports including that giant football stadium and very little for women’s sports.

    All that changed due to a law passed in 1972.

    The passage of Title IX, the 1972 Education Amendments to the Civil Rights Act, expanded high school athletic opportunities to include girls, revolutionizing mass sports participation in the United States.

    Title IX and the Evolution of High School Sports

    We don’t always go backwards, it just seems like it today.

  7. KG says

    Any attack on the rights of trans women is bound to adversely affect cis women who don’t look or behave in a stereotypically feminine way, leading to them being excluded not just from sports, but from toilets, women’s refuges, etc.. You might think that “gender-critical feminists” would realise this, but I suppose they think they “can always tell”.

  8. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 9

    …but I suppose they think they “can always tell”.

    Yes, they can feeeeeeel the feminine energy, sent directly from the Earth/Mother/Goddess and Sister/Moon/Spirit emanating from their yoni; their pure biological yoni.

    No, really, A lot of “Radical Feminism” is infested with what can only be called supernatural nonsense and mysticism (and a lot of it culturally appropriated supernatural nonsense and mysticism at that). To them. the woman is a divine being and trans woman are a blasphemous abomination against the sacred feminine.

  9. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 11

    (Skims article) Yikes! Ms. Daly, like most latter-day TERFs, seems to have fit the bill as the right-wing’s “man-hating lesbian” stereotype of feminists.

  10. says

    To them. the woman is a divine being and trans woman are a blasphemous abomination against the sacred feminine.

    Of all the people currently bashing transfolk, how many of them are really in that category? I don’t know this for certain, but it seems to me that the TERFs are hugely outnumbered by the just plain TEs.

  11. microraptor says

    @10: You do know that the reason TERF exists is because the radical feminist movement was for the most part actually quite accepting of trans women. The ones who didn’t like that needed a new term for themselves to show off that they didn’t approve. Whatever other problems that the movement had, it at least wasn’t excluding trans people.

    And in a related note for how things can get worse, Marjorie Taylor Greene last night introduced a bill to put a nation-wide ban on gender affirmation care for anyone under the age of 18. It’s obviously got no chance of passing at this point but it is a notice that this is the conservative agenda now.

  12. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 13

    To be fair, probably not a lot, but I’ve seen ContraPoints and Philosophy Tube’s take on TERF-dom and the level of pure, murderous hatred they spew at trans women can only be described as “religious” in fervor.

  13. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 14

    I realize that. I’m sorry If I was lumping all feminists into the same boat.

  14. lakitha tolbert says

    It’s interesting to note that these ideas are not entirely new (I’m pretty sure they are very very old). I’ve been watching the new version of A League of Their Own, about a women’s baseball league during WW2, and there’s a huge concern among the white male creators of the league that all the white women (because “colored” women were absolutely not allowed – and there is a couple of brief acknowledgments that its because they aren’t feminine enough) be properly lady-like.

    The women all have to abide by rules like wearing makeup, and dresses/ skirts in public. There’s one scene where those women who don’t know how to properly curtsy get eliminated from the team. There is no swearing, drinking, or smoking, and a curfew at 10P. It becomes clear over time that more than a few of them are lesbians, (but some were pretty butch), and some are just gender nonconforming. But there is a lot of discussion over whether or not the public wants to see women playing sports and what the women look like.

  15. says

    One wonders what this says about how much those parents who demanded the “investigation” really have confidence in, cherish, or care about their own children, who appear to have worth only if they’re certified as the very, very best… and, of course, it’s ok to call into question any other parent’s children who get in the way.

    Caffeine levels insufficient, I was just being overly polite. One need not wonder at all. Neither need one wonder about what that actually does to those “unworthy” second- and third-place competitors in contests that will not, themselves, have an effect on their success as adults (<sarcasm> because if they were actually good enough for that to matter, it would be through a national Olympic-caliber center for excellence rather than a high-school sport regulator, so they’re obviously losers anyway </sarcasm>). It reminds me about the “but he’s really more than 12 years old!” controversies with Venezualan and Dominican Little League players a few years back… given that the majority of the population at the time of birth in those countries had no birth certificate at all, it was more than ok to punish the kids for parents either seeking advantage (worst case) or just not bloody knowing (much more probable) and going along for the “prestige” ride.

  16. lanir says

    @9 & 10: I think it’s far simpler than that. They’re assuming they’ll always be the ones doing the deciding. Full stop. No further thought necessary.

  17. Doc Bill says

    We’re seeing this more and more, and my narrow observation is that it’s on the “right.” That is, “If I don’t win it’s because the other side cheated.” Just an extension of entitlement.

    There is a Kurt Vonnegut story that I forget the title about a dystopian future ruled by the Ministry of Equality, or something like that, that puts impediments on people to prevent them from excelling. I recall the image of the ballerina in chains.

  18. divineconspiracy667 says

    Raven @8:
    And it’s been a slow improvement. I recall back in the 90s when the hockey league I played in had over a dozen men’s teams, but the women’s league could barely put two teams together.
    On top of that, two women obtained “special permission” to play on my team in the men’s league because they were head and shoulders better than the rest of the players in the women’s league and they wanted to play with the men for better competition.
    Most of the guys were pretty good about it, but there were a few assholes, of course.
    Nowadays, there’s a full women’s league, as well as a mixed league, and even the men’s league has a smattering of female players on some teams.

    Lakitha @ 17:
    I don’t watch a lot of sports, pretty much only hockey. And when I’m watching a women’s game and I see women with full makeup on under their face cage, I feel for them. It should be absolutely their choice whether or not they want to do that, but I can’t imagine having that pressure to be super feminine all the time, going so far as to wear makeup while playing a sweaty, physical sport like hockey.

  19. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 20

    Harrison Bergeron. Read it in high school. Sadly, these days it’s used by fascists to attack socialism, feminism, non-white civil rights, or any movement that seeks social justice. Probably not Mr. Vonnegut’s intention, but that no longer matters.

  20. Akira MacKenzie says

    Addendum to 22

    I mean, I’ve seen right-wingers claim 1984 is an anti-socialist polemic despite the fact that Orwell was a socialist.

  21. bodach says

    Back in the ancient days, my Mom was so good at tennis (circa 1937) that she would practice with the men’s team to get a good workout. Of course, that was only for practice; she dominated the field against other women (girls). Nobody complained (or looked under her skirt): one thing they got right amidst all the terrible stuff that was happening at those times.

  22. jenorafeuer says

    @Akira MacKenzie:
    I mean, obviously the society in 1984 is about as socialist as the U.S.S.R. under Stalin: everybody (who isn’t part of the party) is equal (at the bottom).

    It makes attempts at a ‘words have meanings!’ argument difficult because so many authoritarian and fascist groups have called themselves socialist to prevent people from looking too closely until they’ve achieved a lock on power. Which doesn’t work so well in the U.S. where ‘socialist’ is a dirty word, and ‘Christian’ gets used instead, and about as accurately.

  23. says

    Excuse me, but what this shows me is that some people place way too much emphasis on high school sports. As a friend of mine used to say, “That’s where a lot of people peaked in life and it was all downhill from there”, so maybe that explains the preoccupation with it. Seriously, get a grip. What’s next? Are we going to have “panty police” at every meet and match? If only people got as riled up about academics as they do about sports, this country would be in a much better position.

    (And no, I am not a malcontent regarding HS sports. I earned multiple varsity letters in track and cross country but I don’t let it rule my adult life. Perspective, and all that.)

  24. says

    Reply to: @8 raven

    19 August 2022 at 9:16 am
    It can get worse.
    It has been worse in the past.
    Back in the Dark Ages of the 1960s,

    You are right! But, based on what I hear rtwing xtian terrorists around me say, I know it is already getting worse. We are being dragged downward into anther dark ages by them. A vast segment of the population tries to destroy anyone who works to excel intellectually or physically. We see increases of hate crimes against: asians, people of color and anyone who isn’t a poster child for extreme masculinity or femininity. Cities/states still encourage irresponsible population growth that is dooming them to drought, crime, homelessness, etc. We see conspiracy theories fed by the ignorant sheople. Literacy and critical thinking are deteriorating quickly. This pitiful country doesn’t value education at all. Teachers abandoning the abusive school systems leave us with non-college educated, inexperienced people blindly pushing some corporate curriculum at students.

    O.K. I’ll shut up now, since I’m preaching to the choir.

  25. Akira MacKenzie says

    @ 27

    O.K. I’ll shut up now, since I’m preaching to the choir.

    Who else are we going to preach to? It’s not as if our enemies will listen to us.

  26. says

    Dear Akira,

    @28 Who else are we going to preach to? It’s not as if our enemies will listen to us.

    I agree. When I examine some of the predominating forces in society, I see that social media is just a popularity contest of mediocrity. And our political system is almost entirely controlled by money. Most of us of conscience and intellectual curiosity are not focused on gaining vast wealth and power. Thus, it is difficult for us to have a unified ‘loud voice’ that influences people. Most who desire political power and influence are arrogant, ignorant, uncaring, megalomaniacs; just the type that we don’t need as leaders.
    I do, at every safe opportunity, try to present decent, progressive, caring, tolerant viewpoints to people. And, what little I can spare, I will donate to causes that further those values.

    O.K., choir, I’ll shut up.

  27. birgerjohansson says

    (Celebrating the weekend with my favv TV characters)
    And of course Catherine Weaver, the T-1001 boss of ZeiraCorp, independent enough to break with Skynet.
    Probing her intimate parts is not recommended.

  28. chrislawson says


    Cishet women who present as culturally feminine are still the subject of the vast majority of violence against women. I’m not saying this to diminish the impact of violence and oppression against transgendered and non-binary people (per capita and as a social group they experience much more violence) but as a reminder that this has nothing to do with women’s rights.

    The current transgender war is just a wedge issue that allows conservatives to misappropriate feminist rhetoric that they have zero intention of applying for women in any other context. “Oh, the poor women athletes” they say, as they dismantle Title IX. “Oh the poor women offended by inclusive phrases like ‘people with a uterus'” they say as they overturn Roe v. Wade. “Oh the poor women who will be molested by trans women in public toilets” they say as they put known rapists and abusers into high office.

  29. silvrhalide says

    Right now it’s just sports, which is bad enough. How long before women start getting attacked for being for being insufficiently feminine by being better than (some) men in STEM fields? Or any other field that is/was predominantly occupied by men? I’m old enough to remember when that was a thing. Ooooh, better not be too good at math or people with think you’re a lesbian and then you won’t get dates (with misogynist homophobic men! Clearly a fate worse than death!) /s

    Right now, women’s sports is kind of the test case. Misogynists, transphobes and conservatives are using women’s sports kind of as a test case. How much pushback will they get? If the answer is “none” or “not that much”, then they’re coming for all the rest of women’s rights and women’s participation in the public sphere. Behold the American Taliban.

  30. says

    Not entirely disagreeing with you, Silvr, but as bad as this is (using the existence of trans people to slash freedoms for women & girls in the name of identifying the terrible gender transgressors who are destroying society by committing the most awful crime imaginable … :checks notes: … cheating at sport!), it’s not really necessary as a test case right now b/c they stumbled into a fight that most conservatives didn’t want: abortion.

    The end of abortion rights is part of the overall war on reproductive rights. They know that abortion rights are popular, even if they’re not popular by the name “abortion rights”. It comes down to whether you like abortion or not (I can’t imagine that there are many who “like” abortion, but bear with me) do you want a government official sticking something up your cooter and then sending a report back to some bureaucratic agency filled with people you’ve never met to decide whether you become a parent or get an abortion? Literally no one who can get pregnant wants that, but asserting that the government has the power to decide that you cannot get an abortion is legally impossible to distinguish (or nearly so) from the idea that the government has the power to force you to get an abortion.

    You think that that latter part is irrelevant because red states are only interested in banning abortion, and blue states aren’t willing to legislate control of the pregnancies of women and AFAB folk. But no. That’s not what’s going to happen. They can’t help themselves. Just like the Catholic church demanded parents compliance to their scheme to move child rapists to other parishes so that more children can be raped, all in the name of preserving the reputation of the RCC, red states are outraged that forcing 10 year old rape victims to carry a fetus to term is harming their reputations, and sooner or later their “mercy” will become mandatory, because they’ll be afraid that even with a future 10-year-old-rape-victim exception in the law no one will believe that they didn’t exert silent pressure on the 10 year old and her family to carry the fetus to term. So they’ll force the abortion to “prove” that they aren’t monsters.

    I don’t back away from anything I’ve said about how the landscape of acceptable expressions of femininity is consistently reduced over time via gender policing, even if the target of such policing is not cis women. But abortion is now the more immediate threat.

    I just wish the media were covering things that way.