Note to all: remember, this paragraph exists in the Declaration of Independence.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
And the Boston Tea Party began our great American tradition of committing crimes and blaming them on minorities.
Don’t forget the gigantic omission, either. In a grand document declaring Liberty and Freedom and Independence, slavery was ignored. Swept under the rug. “all men are created equal” except the ones we don’t mention, and oh, yeah, women aren’t.
Hope I haven’t put a damper on your cookouts and picnics.
The greatest nation in the history of the world. American exceptionalism!
“Men” presumably denoted a specific class of property owning person, others were called various things including “boy” regardless of age.
Were the first nations still minorities back then?
It has long been understood that the USA was modeled consciously on the imperial grandeur of Rome. The whole US obsession with liberty is just a reflection of the Roman obsession with libertas – perhaps the defining value of the Republic. Where the Greeks would talk of freedom – eleutheria – as the most important thing for a state (meaning self-determination basically – not having some other city or empire tell you what to do), the Romans of the Republic defined their concept of libertas as not being told what to do by someone else in your own state – such as a king or owner. Libertas was the polar opposite of servilitas – slavery. Liberty was not being enslaved. To the Roman mind having a king was no different from being a slave – subjection to royal rule was slavery in all respects. Which is why the cult of Libertas as a goddess, with a temple in the forum and everything, was founded, so the legend goes, by Lucius Iunius Brutus, the man who threw out the last of Rome’s kings and founded the Republic.
Obviously this foundation legend was on the minds of the oligarchs and plutocrats who founded the USA. Given their 18th century classical educations it could hardly not have been. The Federalist Papers and records of the Congressional Congress are full of classical references and allusions that heark back to Greece and Rome.
But it is telling that the American copy diverged from the Roman original in specific ways when it came to squaring the rather obvious contradiction between praising liberty and supporting the enslavement of others. This contradiction had always bothered the Romans – we like to think of them as cruel, domineering, racists who enslaved others with glee and abandon, but the reality was a lot more complex. There was a certain honesty to general Roman views of slavery and liberty – we are free precisely because we are not slaves, and without the category of slave the category of free would no longer have meaning. The Romans also habitually freed their slaves and made them citizens (well, Freedmen, but the children of Freedmen were full citizens) – slavery could be seen almost as a kind of apprenticeship into Roman society, and many slaves prospered and became wealthy and important. It should also be borne in mind that the Romans really only became a slave-owning society on any great scale several centuries after the foundation of their Republic – when they had become successful enough to wage devastating foreign wars and actually take back enough slaves to make them readily affordable throughout Roman society.
The US, by contrast, became a major slave-holding society before it rid itself of royal rule. To the Romans it was a contradiction that developed slowly, centuries after they had established who they were and what they valued, but in the US it was a flagrant hypocrisy embedded from the beginning. Slavery in the US was also racialised, where it wasn’t in Rome. In the US slaves were not routinely freed to become new citizens, they remained a despised underclass for their entire lives. The whole rationale of the Roman practice – which was informed, to some extent, by the inherent Roman unease with lauding liberty but practicing enslavement – seems to have entirely flown by the statesmen and legislators tapping Roman history for examples to emulate.
You cannot find me a people that don’t have a history
of death, and suffering, and unfairness. And if all you did was dwell on that you’d have missed the forest for the trees. America was a radical experiment. Democracy feels like the most obvious system of government today (thanks for post-WW2 push by America – you don’t actually think it was a coincidence that the governmental model chosen by most of the world just so happen to coincide with that of the most powerful superpower), but there was no ready made democratic model. The closest were the Greeks and Romans from antiquity and whatever hybrid parlimentary monarchy Britain had. It was a big step towards a truly egalitarian society.
I guess I don’t understand why you hate your country so much. If shit hits the fan, your country is all you’ll have , and the only entity that will stand for you. You think France or Zimbabwe will look out for you?
@6: “I guess I don’t understand why you hate your country so much”
If it were me I guess I would hate it because of people like you who deny their emotions by projecting them onto others.
Since I live in another country I suppose I am free to hat yours, but oddly I don’t. I merely despair of it.
That final comma in the quoted statement seems entirely superfluous by modern standards.
Perhaps not quite enough to annul the whole document, but re-negotiation may be in order.
(Am I the only one seeing an ad above that quotation with a button reading “Leran More”?)
“In a grand document declaring Liberty and Freedom and Independence, slavery was ignored.”
It was in the original draft, but compromised out.
@6- Danny
Without Rochambeau and Lafayette where would our fledgling democracy have been? Oh and Spain?
The Revolution wasn’t in a vacuum. We have the disruptive Bavarian Illuminati and lizards to thank too.
Not on mine. Had some margaritas, a few hot dogs and burgers chatted with some friends and watched a wicked fireworks display. You clearly had a better time by finding new ways to feel guilty over shit you have zero control over. I’m slightly disappointed you didn’t write a long, boring lecture on how fireworks are cultural appropriation. Tsk, tsk, your privilege blindness is showing, Phineas Zebadiah.
Oh dear God, we are being trolled by a subgenius.
hemidactylus #12
Oh, yeah! That’s it. Thanks.
@13- chigau
The Bob Dobbs avatar was a nice touch. “Life, liberty, survival”?
Danny Husar @6
The most likely way that the shit could hit the fan in the near future is the US degenerating into a conservative autocracy that suppresses those that oppose it. If that happens, my best bet would be to move to Canada, or France, or the UK, or any other country that hasn’t completely turned rotten from the inside out. Fuck nationalistic granfaloons.
It’s true that pretty much every nation in the world has an ugly history. That’s not an excuse to minimize or paper over that ugly past. What the US did to native Americans and black people wasn’t inevitable, and it’s not excused by any good things that Americans did later. If you disagree, you’re treating millions of displaced American Indians and enslaved black people as disposable.
What I, PZ, and other progressives want is for our country to confront its past instead of trying to whitewash it. We want our country to learn from its past so it can make amends for what it’s done, and avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Focusing only on the bright spots in our history is what’s truly missing the forest for the trees.
Susan Montgomery @11
We’re not finding new ways to feel guilty over shit we have zero control over. My contempt for the horrible things our founding fathers did doesn’t burden me personally in the slightest.
We’re not angry with ourselves, we’re angry with oblivious shitgibbons who freak out if we dare point out that their rosy picture of our country’s history is a myth. Even if you’re not one of said shitgibbons and you’re just displeased that someone is being pessimistic during a holiday, get over it. People have a lot of reason to be pessimistic.
@6
“What are we, rotten chopped liver?” – various European countries who didn’t wait for uncle sam to try various forms of democratic governments themselves.
They also influenced the choice of a governmental model in their numerous former colonies. A lot more than the US.
There is a strong sentiment in a few European countries that during and post WW2 the US would have been quite happy with European dictatorships, provided we Europeans just stopped sinking US trade vessels. The current US president made it clear this sentiment has more than some basis (“fine people on both sides”).
Forward thinkers of one of these countries you derided – I cannot recall exactly, Zimbabwe, maybe – even wrote a little text about freedom and equality for all, which was later lifted into the US constitution.
@ Danny Husar, #6
A nation, founded on the principle that you can be anything you want to be, so long as you’re a rich white man! A nation where people (again, ‘people’ refers only to rich white men) are free to commit genocide and own slaves! A nation that would go on provide inspiration and support for some of the worst tyrants the world has ever known!
How inspiring.
But you’re right, every nation has inglorious deeds in its past. Now we’re merely a nation that has become the world’s foremost terrorist state. A nation that overthrows democratically elected foreign governments and installs brutal dictators to help shore up corporate profits. A nation that utterly destroys nations, murdering hundreds of thousands in the process, to enrich a handful of its already obscenely wealthy citizens. A nation responsible for the slavery of countless millions around the globe. A nation that imprisons and tortures millions of its own citizens.
Truly, we are a shining city on a hill.
Tell me, how am I supposed to react to all that? With gratitude? Should I thank my lucky stars that I live in a country with such an august record of atrocities? You accuse us of hate but, while I have indeed uttered the words “I hate this country,” the truth is that I am staggered daily by the sheer enormity of the crimes committed in my name. In the name of every ‘free’ citizen of this nation. You say:
…as though these monstrous acts are but natural phenomena, like earthquakes or floods. They aren’t. We. Do. This. We choose this.
I loved my country when I was a naïve child, but I am a child no longer. I know what we have done, I know what we do now, and I know what we will, in all likelihood, continue to do. And in knowing, and not throwing everything I have into changing this, I am complicit. Just one more marcher in an endless parade of evil.
Hate? No. Sorrow is what I feel, for what might have been and what could be (but probably won’t).
If the shit hits the fan, “my country” will most likely come for me bearing a bullet with my name on it, and that’s if I’m lucky. I only hope that I find it in me to chuck a few turds myself before the end.
The synopsis of Susan and Danny’s clueless, bigoted responses: “Pass me a beer and pay no,attention to that man man behind the curtain.”
emergence #15
Too late for us in the UK old bean (unless we can reverse Brexit)
Unfortunately, this kind of thing is going to be something that America will always have to grapple with. Even from our founding, we’ve always been a nation of BIG IDEAS, but poor implementation. For all our advances in technology, medicine and civil rights, we’ll always have slavery, the trail of tears and segregation.
That’s why the people who fetishize the founding fathers, and promote this idealized history of America as this perfect (usually specifically christian), unblemished gift to the world are so dangerous though. You need to be conscious of the terrible things you’ve done so that you can do better in the future. Having an honest discussion about slavery, segregation, or the native genocide and displacement isn’t a personal attack against modern white people, it’s not something to get defensive about, it’s objective history that *did* happen, and that we *need* to remember. Just because your ancestors were bad people doesn’t mean that you personally are, and a lot of people need to get that through their heads.
I’m from freaking Mississippi. I 100% had ancestors who fight for the CSA and possibly even owned slaves, but I can look at that objectively and know that doesn’t make me a bad person. A lot of people in the South are so, so defensive. They’ve built up this myth about what the Civil War was about and they can’t stand the idea that their ancestors were the badguys. They take it as some kind of personal attack on their family in the present.
We’ve got to have a certain level of self-awareness as a nation. A lot of those past events still do have an impact on our culture. We’re still struggling with the after-effects of slavery and segregation, the disenfranchisement of women, and a South that was given little more than a slap on the wrist for trying to tear the country apart. You have to understand and make peace with your past if you want to do better in the future.
We do tend to move in a generally progressive direction on the whole though. It takes far longer than it should, and there are constant bumps in the road, but America has gotten better. So here’s hoping we continue that trend (sure would be nice if we could speed it up a little though).
Danny Husar, #6
You’re gonna have to do better than the line the likes of Donald Trump fart out at athletes kneeling.
Seriously, what is with the “omg you hate your country” line you all resort to…
You mean like how the country stands for women, black people, LGBT people, people of color, refugees? Shit is hitting the fan for us on a regular basis. And the country is the one doing it.
Why do you people confuse loving one’s country and forced blind obedience to the dictatorship?
There were many great, insightful posts here, putting jingoism, “American Exceptionalism” and the bizarre “Ancestor” worship (not only for the Founding Fathers) into perspective. Bravo! I have not much to add to that.
Since there was also an interesting post about the Romans: The Romans are also a brilliant example for the human need of justifying one`s deeds. Romans were often using convoluted “excuses” and “reasons” why they had to start wars against group X and had to enslave the survivors of those wars.
Humans do atrocities but they still want to believe that they are morally righteous. Being honest to oneself and self-critical is the greatest feat. Battling one`s own (Confirmation) Bias is the toughest fight that we face in our lives.
Hence the attraction of fascism (or nationalism or White Supremacy or Fundamentalist Religions or some brands of Libertarianism) – they make it easy for the individual. No argument, no fact really matters. Fascists and fellow travellers tell you what you want to hear. No change needed, no thought needed. No hurt feelings. “You are great the way you are! You are the greatest because of X” (fill in nationality, skin colour, gender, religion etc that fits the individual).
Right wingers (aka Conservatives, reactionaries, fundamentalists…) are the ultimate “snowflakes”, to use their own stupid word.
It is tough to be a leftist (progressive, liberal). And that is why we have a hard time fighting against the rise of fascism. Our way of “convincing by argument and fact” does hardly work. Especially not on a populace that was mislead and manipulated (by media like FOX News and a general “both-sides”-fake-objectivity) and under-educated for decades. Economic insecurity in the dog-eat-dog world of neoliberal economics contributed negatively.
It is a dilemma. If only the Democrats would not have “dropped the ball”, some time in the 1970/80ies. But, lacking a time machine, leftists have to work with what they got now. I suggest starting to talk with relatively reasonable people in the neighbourhood, at least making an attempt.
I am glad that PZ Myers writes this kind of blog article. It is needed.
It’s interesting to me (I won’t say “funny”) when I or we are urged to stop being so negative and just think about the good times, because so many of those good times—the ones that aren’t just celebrations of when the Right people were happy—existed only in movies. They want to go back to Movie America (a term I believe I picked up from Jules Feiffer).
What’s darn near funny about it is that Movie America was the creation of a group that was mainly urban, largely Jewish, and predominantly liberal, trying to edit the past as a lesson for the present in tolerance and other virtues they wanted for us to have, and their work has ended up being the alternate past that ‘proves’ that everything has always been swell except for a few Negative Nellies, like those damned liberals in Hollywood who are always trying to tell us how to live our lives.
The irony causes my face to tighten into a grim rictus that sometimes passes for a smile, which makes the accompanying snort seem almost like a chuckle.
+Saad @22
Hmm. Given how those people love projection, might the truth be that they actually hate their country, and so they are convinced everyone does? … hmmm.
Or maybe it is just that they hate their opposition, so they assume their opposition hates them back, and all those say just points out what else they hate … yes, that sounds more plausible.
So, what is the suggested course of action? What are we going to to about the fact that a lot of people in history were really awful? I fail to see how wallowing in self-loathing helps in any way.
Susan,
Why do you see PZ’s post as self-loathing?
Yes, it is valuable to be reminded that the DOI was not Perfect, was merely an expression of rebellion at the time and did not address everything. Remember the aphorism “hindsight is always 20-20”. Still worth celebrating the initiation of the movement of the ongoing work we’re continuing. It is acceptable to occasionally pause during the process and recognize the successes accomplished along the way. Also important to not allow that to be final, merely a pause along the way.
DOI was only the start, job not done ever, it is a continual process that requires continual maintenance and improvement. “Good enough” also means “can be improved”. Keep going.,
@Danny Husar
America is not looking out for me. If people too fear-soaked to examine it’s flaws such as yourself get your way it never will.
Hatred is a perfectly natural emotion and focusing it on awful national characteristics is totally appropriate.
Susan @ 26:
Christ you’re thick. Who’s wallowing? Some people said they see nothing to celebrate. Big fucking deal. By the way, Susan, seeing your country clearly for what it is, that’s naught to do with self-loathing. I am not my country, I just live in it.
Saad@27,
Presumably, Susan is unable to distinguish between herself and the USA, and assumes PZ is the same.
Is the United States of America a terrorist nation? Is it a corporatocracy? Read Thom Hartmann’s “Screwed”.
jack16
R. I. P. . . . Ed Schultz ,
jack16
Fuck off, traitor.
So stop doing that. Start making things better. Or drop dead. Either way is good.
Susan @26
I already said I don’t feel personal guilt for what our country’s founders did. I already said what I think we should do;
– Look at the past honestly, instead of arguing that it was totally okay that the White House was built by slaves, or that the Trail of Tears was somehow justified.
– Understand how those past mistakes have shaped the current state of our country, and try to fix any lingering injustice that they caused.
– Learn from the past so we don’t make the same mistakes in the present.
Why do you still think I hate myself and want to wallow in misery?
@emergence – yeah, check, check check, I’m down with that. Can I enjoy a burger now? Without having to check my pickle privilege, preferably?
@KG – I’m not sure how that’s supposed to be a zinger. Try again,play around with it.
@Cain – You win the Jack Kerouac Prize For Total Coolness. I’d give you the trophy but, trophies are for squares, man…
@Saad – I see it as such because it has no other point. Newsflash: Some cultures which did good things also did nasty things. Film at 11. It’s kinda like bringing up 9/11 every day in Algebra class. It adds nothing of substance.
Susan Montgomery #36
Bless your heart.
Susan, #36
Wait… so because you don’t see the point you say it must be self-loathing. What?
And it’s kinda like bringing up 9/11 when the country is talking about 9/11 and passing off false information about it. Besides, the things that the founding documents got so wrong are still happening (anti-black, anti-Indian). So of course it adds substance. It’s still fucking happening.