You should read all of the charges in Cliven Bundy’s indictment: assault, extortion, conspiracy, and more, and it’s all based on the 2014 standoff at his ranch. The FBI has been waiting patiently all this time to sweep him up and lock him away with an overwhelming list of crimes.
The other rather amusing thing about it all: Bundy, the guy with the great ranch and who has been grazing herds of cattle on federal land, who owes at least a million dollars to the federal government, has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender. The freeloading never ends.
Fuckwits like him have no problem making use of government services when it suits their needs or desires.
He wants an overworked and underpaid public defense attorney assigned to him by the government? What kind of anti-government conspiracy theorist is he if he actually trusts the government to assign him a capable and willing and not-at-all-colluding-with-the-prosecutors public defendant? Not much of one, that’s what. Now, if he were truly a calculating person, he’d go with a public defendant and point to the history of failure with regard to successful defenses put up by them, especially in regard to those who defend poor and black defendants, and then try to claim that a mistrial was statistically likely given such shoddy defense… But nah, he’d never admit that such a thing were possible, because they’re all so obviously guilty of things, and he’s exercising his Universal rights. And by Universal, I mean Center-of-the-Universe.
Clearly he needs a public defender, given that he owes so much money.
If he were financially stable, he’d be able to hire anyone at all!
Fortunately, the federal government doesn’t exist at all, so both his debts and his charges are imaginary.
Wait…
Since he sure as hell can afford better, and knows full well a public defender isn’t going to go with his “
You have no power hereGovernment has no authority over me” shtick, I’m going to go out on a limb and say this is part of a plan to portray himself further as a victim of conspiracy. He knows he can’t beat the wrap, private attorney or no, so he goes with a public defender. Then when he gets convicted, he’ll claim the public defender was in league with the government to put him away. His appeals will all fail, of course, but it will help cement his role in the minds of the movement.themadtapper @4
Perhaps that’s the angle then. Maybe Zombie Cochran could be retrieved for a nominal retainer. Say 3 brains? That might require 6 or more of his fellow “militia” supporters.
Cliven Bundy thinks a public defender will give him as good of a defense as a lawyer he paid $50-100k upfront win or lose? Delusional thinking. But then, I see him firing his lawyer and trying to defend himself futilely with magic words about an admiralty flag. *snicker*
Hmm, apologies if that last remark was ableist. I just realized there ARE people living with half a brain, sometimes less, who are doing just fine, and even better than the knuckleheads that follow Bundy. Mea culpa.
Hilarious. I hope they televise his trial. It’d be like a mix of Beverly Hillbillies and X-Files.
Themadtapper @4
You can never tell with a mindset like his, but I think you might have it figured out.
I wonder why they waited until now to arrest him for what he did in 2014.
They waited until they could get him unarmed at an airport. There is one thing the FBI has learned in the past twenty years, and that is patience. At least this did not last 81 days like the 1996 Montana Freeman standoff.
Here is some background information on the wildlife refuge:
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/supreme_court_already_ruled_th.html
OregonLIve also has an amusing video of the song by a couple of Portland comedians. Something I hope the guards where the Bundy Bunch are being held make sure they see over and over and over again. They did take over an empty building surrounded by ducks.
Well, duh, Duck Dynasty, you know.
Sorry, these guys fascinate me. Probably because I remember my John Bircher relatives in Eastern Washington in the 1960s, and that there was the patriot movement in my neck to the woods that included the massacre of the Goldmark family not far from where I live, and that Keith Gilbert, the very scary step-grandfather of a classmate in my daughter’s preschool, was raided by federal agents for selling machine guns even though he was a convicted felon… less than a block from my kids’ high school (which was fortunately closed for renovations).
Gilbert is mentioned in a couple of books by Dave Neiwert who chronicles these clowns: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ (and elsewhere). Right now I am reading one of his more recent books about the murder of a father and daughter in Arizona by one of the self-declared protectors of the American border. It turns out much of it occurs near where my father retired forty years ago, so I am familiar with the area.
robro: “Well, duh, Duck Dynasty, you know.”
:-)
Oh for…
He’ll be denied, I hope. Last I knew, you only qualified for a PD if your income was below a specific line. If he is assigned though, all my sympathies to whoever draws the short straw.
Interview about FBI mindset in negotiations from High Country News:
http://www.hcn.org/articles/fbi-analyst-says-the-remaining-occupiers-needed-a-surrender-ritual
An additional concern for a private lawyer: how willing are you to take a job defending a guy charging with refusing to pay a massive debt he racked up at the expense of others?
In private practice, they have discretion on who to serve, and a guy you expect will not pay you is probably not someone you want to spend your billable hours working for.
Karpad @18
I don’t think that would be an issue. Bundy wouldn’t have any trouble finding a private lawyer sympathetic to his views who’d be willing to work pro bono. In fact I’m sure a few of them would love the publicity a trial would bring them.
Sure, and/or a chunk of the Bundy Defense Fund. There’s already one for Ammon, probably others. I’m sure Cliven will get his. Plus, he’ll be a bone fide persecuted profit with an army of followers when this is done. So keep that money coming in folks, and when Cliven gets out of jail he’ll be sure to send you a nice picture of himself with some inspiring words.
@19 I was gonna suggest Bundy already had one, but then I realized the “Bundy lawyer” from earlier was actually representing Ammon Bundy. Cliven’s case isn’t based from actions committed in Oregon, so there’s no real reason it has to be an Oregon lawyer. Alan Dershowitz is still kicking, for example, maybe he wants to give this a spin.
@18 Well, each lawyer “should also aspire to”, (note this does not require them to), make a particular yearly commitment to pro bono hours. I believe it’s 50 hours, but it’s been awhile since I passed my MPRE. Anyway, a lot of firms will satisfy this goal by putting some interns or new graduates on simple cases, which also helps train them. A firm which satisfies this goal looks better to the bar itself, and a percentage of firms completing the goal makes that state bar as a whole look better nationwide. They’ve just gotta find a firm who’s willing to do it. It has also been the practice for a judge to take a lunch and assign the first attorney he passes with a pro bono case. That’s actually happened to a few attorneys I worked with, they mentioned eating lunches as far away from a particular judge’s courtroom as possible. Once assigned, you have to come up with a really good reason why you can’t do a case to be allowed to withdraw as counsel. Some judges will still fight your efforts by noting that they can simply move the court dates around your life-threatening surgery, birth of your child, etc.
The code of ethics for attorneys is surprisingly well written for criminal practitioners. For instance, even if you know your client is guilty as sin, your are still ethically bound to force the prosecutor to prove the elements of the crime. Criminal defense attorneys should ideally take that “innocent until proven guilty” idea to heart. In practice however, you see a lot of cases settled before trial. In some cases this is a sad outcome, such as when a client can’t afford for a trial proving innocence to drag on. In others, the outcome is pretty much guaranteed, so the settlement is made to mitigate further hardship on witnesses, victims, or the accused in the hopes the judge will agree to a lighter sentence. Don’t be surprised if Bundy gets a well known lawyer and he still ends up making a plea bargain settlement.
Brian Radovich@ 21
I was actually thinking more of someone like Larry Klayman getting involved. He has history with Bundy and this situation is tailor made for a douchenozzle like him.
Looters!! Eleventy!!!!
When it involves a right that suits him, he will happily take a freebie. When it is a requirement placed on him from outside, out of concern for the rights of others – e.g. holding land in trust for the public – then of course it is an INFRINGEMENT ON WE THE PEOPLE!!!!! and hence he needs to rally the TRUE patriots – people that agree with him, that is – for FREEEEEEDOM!!!
*Bald Eagle superimposed against a USA flag, accompanied by the screech of a Red Hawk*
His principles are elastic, so long as the benefits flow his way he’s happy.
cliven bundy
deadbeat on monday
rebel on tuesday
fox hero on wednesday
racist on thursday
doubled-down on friday
cast out on saturday
forgotten on sunday
cocky next monday
arrested next tuesday
indicted next wednesday
convicted next thursday
sentenced next friday
imprisoned next saturday
forgotten (for realsies!) next sunday
Doesn’t he have a right to get a public defender? I don’t see the problem here.
@bargearse:
sometimes, when jail time crystallizes from warm-n-fuzzy adolescent outlaw fantasy into stone cold reality, internet tough guys discover they need someone that knows and practices real law for grownups and not whatever sov-cit wankery that feeds and clothes parasites like klayman.
Finally they will have a lifetime supply of snacks!
krakonos @27:
“Doesn’t he have a right to get a public defender? I don’t see the problem here.”
Well, the problem is that for someone who’s whole shtick is to say the government is illegitimate, to then turn around and ask the government to provide a lawyer for him, seems a bit hypocritical. OTOH, I believe the public defender part is actually in the Constitution he claims to love so dearly, so maybe that’s one of the parts he actually believes in.
The other problem for Cliven, though, is that pesky bit at the beginning of that section of the Miranda Rights: “If you cannot afford one, an attorney will be provided for you.” Since he’s asked for an attorney, the court has ordered a review of all his finances to show sufficient hardship to qualify for a PD. In a case that’s about him refusing to pay fees and fines from non-payment of fees. I can’t help but feel someone, or more than one someone, at the FBI is rubbing their hands with glee and cackling right now.
Thanks @JCfromNC. I’m not American and the situation is a bit different here. But regardless, I think I was a bit irritated by “The freeloading never ends”. Either it would be freeloading, then he wont get a public attorney so no freeloading is actually happening. Or he is eligible, then it wont be freeloading either, because it is his right to get a public attorney. But I can see how this plays into the hands of the prosecution.
An IRS audit would clear up his finances enough to see if he can afford an attorney….
@32: Math has a liberal bias
Apparently the Federal Magistrate overseeing the Cliven Bundy arraignment also understands the concept “if you cannot afford an attorney”.
(Empasis mine) Financial documents in court. Perjury if not accurate.
The FBI has been waiting patiently all this time to sweep him up and lock him away with an overwhelming list of crimes.
And that’s the thing: there was no need to rush in. Just wait for the right time and a safe situation. Basically you’re dealing with an opponent who is marooned in a desert of land, and whose only means of escaping are control-points where they can be easily arrested because they’re disarmed. (Seriously, if you’re wanted, why on earth would you go to an airport and go through security screening and identify yourself to the nice DHS guys? It’s an IQ test is what it is!)
No need for shooty shooty bang bang, you just wait for your opponent to make a mistake. It might take a decade but, so what? Unless they are really dangerous to others you can let them run up a big bar tab and keep an eye on them.
I spent a couple days with some of the ski patrol in Iceland back in the early 90s. Those guys are, basically, Iceland’s SWAT team. One of them told me that they don’t have much crime other than the occasional drunken brawl but if someone causes trouble and tries to leave: they’re on a desert island near the arctic circle. All the police need to do is pick them up at the airport or harbor because there’s no other way out. Funny. That was when I realize it’s true: you can’t outrun a radio.
aargh@#26
That was good!
Since Bundy seems like a greedy, stupid guy, I wonder if he is related to Al…
My prediction: He’ll get one of the best plea deal offers ever.
There’s a town in Australia near the border of Western Australia and South Australia called Eucla, possibly apocryphal, but spotted on the twitter feed so possibly not, the motto of the traffic police there is “Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide”. It’s in the middle of the Nullabor a very very long way from most other settlements and anyone foolish enough to try and steal a car (or causes other trouble and drives their own) and make a run for it doesn’t get very far as they just call up the petrol stations within driving distance. Eventually they run out of petrol, the foolish ones might try walking a bit for it until the police have time to come pick them up.
I sure hope they don’t let him out on bail, unless it’s for at least ‘1.1 million dollars’ (I imagined that in Dr. Evil’s voice), paid in full. He’s made it clear through past practice that he has no respect for the law, and that he’ll barricade himself in a fortress of guns and kooks to avoid any responsibility. Heck, double that amount to cover the other crimes he’s committed.
Isn’t there even one Republican presidential candidate who can represent him?
Bundy is nutcase no doubt, but I am curious, how can someone get a 1.1 million dollar bill for cows eating grass.
I mean how much does it actually cost to graze cows?
Regardless if those fees are for actual grazing or mostly punitive it still borders on the ridiculous.
And i mean ridiculous for the govt.
ok i just googled my question. It costs $1.35 AUM – animal unit month. So about $16.20 per year to feed a cow. That’s about 6000+ cattle for 10 years.
Unfortunately having those numbers doesn’t help me make any sense of out this.
Another very interesting article, it will also help answer jensmith’s question:
http://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay
A couple of telling bits:
and:
krakonos
It’s just a reference to the hypocrisy of Bundy and his pals being vehemently against public institutions while relying on them heavily. “Freeloading” is their Term for “people who aren’t me getting public help.”
A. Noyd
Especially “people with more melanin than me”.