Poor Cliven


You should read all of the charges in Cliven Bundy’s indictment: assault, extortion, conspiracy, and more, and it’s all based on the 2014 standoff at his ranch. The FBI has been waiting patiently all this time to sweep him up and lock him away with an overwhelming list of crimes.

The other rather amusing thing about it all: Bundy, the guy with the great ranch and who has been grazing herds of cattle on federal land, who owes at least a million dollars to the federal government, has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender. The freeloading never ends.

Comments

  1. says

    Bundy, the guy with the great ranch and who has been grazing herds of cattle on federal land, who owes at least a million dollars to the federal government, has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender.

    Fuckwits like him have no problem making use of government services when it suits their needs or desires.

  2. throwaway, butcher of tongues, mauler of metaphor says

    He wants an overworked and underpaid public defense attorney assigned to him by the government? What kind of anti-government conspiracy theorist is he if he actually trusts the government to assign him a capable and willing and not-at-all-colluding-with-the-prosecutors public defendant? Not much of one, that’s what. Now, if he were truly a calculating person, he’d go with a public defendant and point to the history of failure with regard to successful defenses put up by them, especially in regard to those who defend poor and black defendants, and then try to claim that a mistrial was statistically likely given such shoddy defense… But nah, he’d never admit that such a thing were possible, because they’re all so obviously guilty of things, and he’s exercising his Universal rights. And by Universal, I mean Center-of-the-Universe.

  3. Cuttlefish says

    Clearly he needs a public defender, given that he owes so much money.

    If he were financially stable, he’d be able to hire anyone at all!

    Fortunately, the federal government doesn’t exist at all, so both his debts and his charges are imaginary.

    Wait…

  4. themadtapper says

    The other rather amusing thing about it all: Bundy, the guy with the great ranch and who has been grazing herds of cattle on federal land, who owes at least a million dollars to the federal government, has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender.

    Since he sure as hell can afford better, and knows full well a public defender isn’t going to go with his “You have no power here Government has no authority over me” shtick, I’m going to go out on a limb and say this is part of a plan to portray himself further as a victim of conspiracy. He knows he can’t beat the wrap, private attorney or no, so he goes with a public defender. Then when he gets convicted, he’ll claim the public defender was in league with the government to put him away. His appeals will all fail, of course, but it will help cement his role in the minds of the movement.

  5. throwaway, butcher of tongues, mauler of metaphor says

    themadtapper @4

    Since he sure as hell can afford better, and knows full well a public defender isn’t going to go with his “You have no power here Government has no authority over me” shtick, I’m going to go out on a limb and say this is part of a plan to portray himself further as a victim of conspiracy. He knows he can’t beat the wrap, private attorney or no, so he goes with a public defender. Then when he gets convicted, he’ll claim the public defender was in league with the government to put him away. His appeals will all fail, of course, but it will help cement his role in the minds of the movement.

    Perhaps that’s the angle then. Maybe Zombie Cochran could be retrieved for a nominal retainer. Say 3 brains? That might require 6 or more of his fellow “militia” supporters.

  6. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Cliven Bundy thinks a public defender will give him as good of a defense as a lawyer he paid $50-100k upfront win or lose? Delusional thinking. But then, I see him firing his lawyer and trying to defend himself futilely with magic words about an admiralty flag. *snicker*

  7. throwaway, butcher of tongues, mauler of metaphor says

    Hmm, apologies if that last remark was ableist. I just realized there ARE people living with half a brain, sometimes less, who are doing just fine, and even better than the knuckleheads that follow Bundy. Mea culpa.

  8. rogerfirth says

    Hilarious. I hope they televise his trial. It’d be like a mix of Beverly Hillbillies and X-Files.

  9. chris says

    They waited until they could get him unarmed at an airport. There is one thing the FBI has learned in the past twenty years, and that is patience. At least this did not last 81 days like the 1996 Montana Freeman standoff.

  10. chris says

    Sorry, these guys fascinate me. Probably because I remember my John Bircher relatives in Eastern Washington in the 1960s, and that there was the patriot movement in my neck to the woods that included the massacre of the Goldmark family not far from where I live, and that Keith Gilbert, the very scary step-grandfather of a classmate in my daughter’s preschool, was raided by federal agents for selling machine guns even though he was a convicted felon… less than a block from my kids’ high school (which was fortunately closed for renovations).

    Gilbert is mentioned in a couple of books by Dave Neiwert who chronicles these clowns: http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ (and elsewhere). Right now I am reading one of his more recent books about the murder of a father and daughter in Arizona by one of the self-declared protectors of the American border. It turns out much of it occurs near where my father retired forty years ago, so I am familiar with the area.

  11. says

    has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender.

    Oh for…

    He’ll be denied, I hope. Last I knew, you only qualified for a PD if your income was below a specific line. If he is assigned though, all my sympathies to whoever draws the short straw.

  12. karpad says

    An additional concern for a private lawyer: how willing are you to take a job defending a guy charging with refusing to pay a massive debt he racked up at the expense of others?
    In private practice, they have discretion on who to serve, and a guy you expect will not pay you is probably not someone you want to spend your billable hours working for.

  13. bargearse says

    Karpad @18

    I don’t think that would be an issue. Bundy wouldn’t have any trouble finding a private lawyer sympathetic to his views who’d be willing to work pro bono. In fact I’m sure a few of them would love the publicity a trial would bring them.

  14. robro says

    private lawyer…willing to work pro bono…

    Sure, and/or a chunk of the Bundy Defense Fund. There’s already one for Ammon, probably others. I’m sure Cliven will get his. Plus, he’ll be a bone fide persecuted profit with an army of followers when this is done. So keep that money coming in folks, and when Cliven gets out of jail he’ll be sure to send you a nice picture of himself with some inspiring words.

  15. says

    @19 I was gonna suggest Bundy already had one, but then I realized the “Bundy lawyer” from earlier was actually representing Ammon Bundy. Cliven’s case isn’t based from actions committed in Oregon, so there’s no real reason it has to be an Oregon lawyer. Alan Dershowitz is still kicking, for example, maybe he wants to give this a spin.

    @18 Well, each lawyer “should also aspire to”, (note this does not require them to), make a particular yearly commitment to pro bono hours. I believe it’s 50 hours, but it’s been awhile since I passed my MPRE. Anyway, a lot of firms will satisfy this goal by putting some interns or new graduates on simple cases, which also helps train them. A firm which satisfies this goal looks better to the bar itself, and a percentage of firms completing the goal makes that state bar as a whole look better nationwide. They’ve just gotta find a firm who’s willing to do it. It has also been the practice for a judge to take a lunch and assign the first attorney he passes with a pro bono case. That’s actually happened to a few attorneys I worked with, they mentioned eating lunches as far away from a particular judge’s courtroom as possible. Once assigned, you have to come up with a really good reason why you can’t do a case to be allowed to withdraw as counsel. Some judges will still fight your efforts by noting that they can simply move the court dates around your life-threatening surgery, birth of your child, etc.

    The code of ethics for attorneys is surprisingly well written for criminal practitioners. For instance, even if you know your client is guilty as sin, your are still ethically bound to force the prosecutor to prove the elements of the crime. Criminal defense attorneys should ideally take that “innocent until proven guilty” idea to heart. In practice however, you see a lot of cases settled before trial. In some cases this is a sad outcome, such as when a client can’t afford for a trial proving innocence to drag on. In others, the outcome is pretty much guaranteed, so the settlement is made to mitigate further hardship on witnesses, victims, or the accused in the hopes the judge will agree to a lighter sentence. Don’t be surprised if Bundy gets a well known lawyer and he still ends up making a plea bargain settlement.

  16. bargearse says

    Brian Radovich@ 21

    Alan Dershowitz is still kicking

    I was actually thinking more of someone like Larry Klayman getting involved. He has history with Bundy and this situation is tailor made for a douchenozzle like him.

  17. gijoel says

    Bundy, the guy with the great ranch and who has been grazing herds of cattle on federal land, who owes at least a million dollars to the federal government, has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender

    Looters!! Eleventy!!!!

  18. Holms says

    The other rather amusing thing about it all: Bundy, the guy with the great ranch and who has been grazing herds of cattle on federal land, who owes at least a million dollars to the federal government, has asked the federal government to provide him with a public defender.

    When it involves a right that suits him, he will happily take a freebie. When it is a requirement placed on him from outside, out of concern for the rights of others – e.g. holding land in trust for the public – then of course it is an INFRINGEMENT ON WE THE PEOPLE!!!!! and hence he needs to rally the TRUE patriots – people that agree with him, that is – for FREEEEEEDOM!!!
    *Bald Eagle superimposed against a USA flag, accompanied by the screech of a Red Hawk*

  19. says

    cliven bundy
    deadbeat on monday
    rebel on tuesday
    fox hero on wednesday
    racist on thursday
    doubled-down on friday
    cast out on saturday
    forgotten on sunday
    cocky next monday
    arrested next tuesday
    indicted next wednesday
    convicted next thursday
    sentenced next friday
    imprisoned next saturday
    forgotten (for realsies!) next sunday

  20. says

    @bargearse:

    I was actually thinking more of someone like Larry Klayman getting involved. He has history with Bundy and this situation is tailor made for a douchenozzle like him.

    sometimes, when jail time crystallizes from warm-n-fuzzy adolescent outlaw fantasy into stone cold reality, internet tough guys discover they need someone that knows and practices real law for grownups and not whatever sov-cit wankery that feeds and clothes parasites like klayman.

  21. JCfromNC says

    krakonos @27:
    “Doesn’t he have a right to get a public defender? I don’t see the problem here.”

    Well, the problem is that for someone who’s whole shtick is to say the government is illegitimate, to then turn around and ask the government to provide a lawyer for him, seems a bit hypocritical. OTOH, I believe the public defender part is actually in the Constitution he claims to love so dearly, so maybe that’s one of the parts he actually believes in.

    The other problem for Cliven, though, is that pesky bit at the beginning of that section of the Miranda Rights: “If you cannot afford one, an attorney will be provided for you.” Since he’s asked for an attorney, the court has ordered a review of all his finances to show sufficient hardship to qualify for a PD. In a case that’s about him refusing to pay fees and fines from non-payment of fees. I can’t help but feel someone, or more than one someone, at the FBI is rubbing their hands with glee and cackling right now.

  22. krakonos says

    Thanks @JCfromNC. I’m not American and the situation is a bit different here. But regardless, I think I was a bit irritated by “The freeloading never ends”. Either it would be freeloading, then he wont get a public attorney so no freeloading is actually happening. Or he is eligible, then it wont be freeloading either, because it is his right to get a public attorney. But I can see how this plays into the hands of the prosecution.

  23. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    An IRS audit would clear up his finances enough to see if he can afford an attorney….

  24. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Apparently the Federal Magistrate overseeing the Cliven Bundy arraignment also understands the concept “if you cannot afford an attorney”.

    A federal magistrate judge ordered Cliven Bundy to remain in custody at least until next Tuesday, and said she’ll consider his request for a court-appointed attorney.
    U.S. Magistrate Judge Janice Stewart said she wanted to see financial documents first. Federal authorities have said Bundy owes more than $1.1 million in fees and penalties for letting cows graze illegally on public land for about 20 years near his Bunkerville, Nevada, ranch.

    (Empasis mine) Financial documents in court. Perjury if not accurate.

  25. says

    The FBI has been waiting patiently all this time to sweep him up and lock him away with an overwhelming list of crimes.

    And that’s the thing: there was no need to rush in. Just wait for the right time and a safe situation. Basically you’re dealing with an opponent who is marooned in a desert of land, and whose only means of escaping are control-points where they can be easily arrested because they’re disarmed. (Seriously, if you’re wanted, why on earth would you go to an airport and go through security screening and identify yourself to the nice DHS guys? It’s an IQ test is what it is!)

    No need for shooty shooty bang bang, you just wait for your opponent to make a mistake. It might take a decade but, so what? Unless they are really dangerous to others you can let them run up a big bar tab and keep an eye on them.

    I spent a couple days with some of the ski patrol in Iceland back in the early 90s. Those guys are, basically, Iceland’s SWAT team. One of them told me that they don’t have much crime other than the occasional drunken brawl but if someone causes trouble and tries to leave: they’re on a desert island near the arctic circle. All the police need to do is pick them up at the airport or harbor because there’s no other way out. Funny. That was when I realize it’s true: you can’t outrun a radio.

  26. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    There’s a town in Australia near the border of Western Australia and South Australia called Eucla, possibly apocryphal, but spotted on the twitter feed so possibly not, the motto of the traffic police there is “Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide”. It’s in the middle of the Nullabor a very very long way from most other settlements and anyone foolish enough to try and steal a car (or causes other trouble and drives their own) and make a run for it doesn’t get very far as they just call up the petrol stations within driving distance. Eventually they run out of petrol, the foolish ones might try walking a bit for it until the police have time to come pick them up.

  27. Paul K says

    I sure hope they don’t let him out on bail, unless it’s for at least ‘1.1 million dollars’ (I imagined that in Dr. Evil’s voice), paid in full. He’s made it clear through past practice that he has no respect for the law, and that he’ll barricade himself in a fortress of guns and kooks to avoid any responsibility. Heck, double that amount to cover the other crimes he’s committed.

  28. says

    Bundy is nutcase no doubt, but I am curious, how can someone get a 1.1 million dollar bill for cows eating grass.
    I mean how much does it actually cost to graze cows?
    Regardless if those fees are for actual grazing or mostly punitive it still borders on the ridiculous.
    And i mean ridiculous for the govt.

  29. says

    ok i just googled my question. It costs $1.35 AUM – animal unit month. So about $16.20 per year to feed a cow. That’s about 6000+ cattle for 10 years.
    Unfortunately having those numbers doesn’t help me make any sense of out this.

  30. chris says

    Another very interesting article, it will also help answer jensmith’s question:
    http://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay

    A couple of telling bits:

    In his other life, Ehmer is a welder, rides Hellboy in jousting matches, hunts black bear on horse-packing trips in the national forest. Because he is convinced that the federal government will soon sell off all public lands or close them to the public, he worries about the loss of access to places to ride his horses.

    and:

    The Malheur occupation, with the incessant press coverage in its early weeks, was the soapbox for disseminating payloads of misinformation about America’s public lands, about their management, about how and why we have them. Every soundbite was delivered to further the goal of privatization.

    The Bundys and the militants who follow and support them are the agents of their own destruction.

  31. A. Noyd says

    krakonos

    But regardless, I think I was a bit irritated by “The freeloading never ends”.

    It’s just a reference to the hypocrisy of Bundy and his pals being vehemently against public institutions while relying on them heavily. “Freeloading” is their Term for “people who aren’t me getting public help.”

  32. militantagnostic says

    A. Noyd

    “Freeloading” is their Term for “people who aren’t me getting public help.”

    Especially “people with more melanin than me”.