I’m actually quite happy to be part of a jerk filter. It means the head of CFI Canada, or DJ, or a small collection of vacuous shitbag trolls, won’t be pestering anyone here.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Stop being so violent, PZ!
*ahem*
Oh, snap son. I suspect CFI Canada might want to have a small internal discussion about PR and internet usage.
I can’t read any posts. Is anyone else having this problem?
I’d love to help you Ace, but I find your comment nearly unreadable.
#4
What?
#grapefruit
Huh?
Sorry, but I have yet to find a single comment on all of internet’s history that is even remotely readable.
Is this the place to drop off Carlie’s post from TET?
Isn’t this the same CFI Canda that has vocal MRA supporters like Justin Trottier stinking it up?
More seriously…
It isn’t so much that the presidents of several (pseudo?)skeptical organizations are assholes, as much as that they are petty, immature, unprofessional assholes. It is like they were promoted from guarding the keg straight to president of an organization with no intermediate steps. You’d think that being the head and therefore Public Representative #1 of an organization would automatically drive a person to be more circumspect in their public behavior. Their inability to do so simply shows that they are unsuitable for leadership positions.
BTW, and not coincidentally, I’m pretty sure that it was CFI Canada/Peyton’s behavior over similar issue in the past that drove my haste in judging Grothe’s behavior.
I’m sorry, I saw a potato then the turtle called and I chewed juicy fruit.
I miss Justin Trottier
People are still attacking you? You bully!
Ace of Sevens: I’m reading this on my iPad and the embedded Jon Stewart clip in a previous post is fucking everything up. It starts loading then elongates and eats every post below it. Never had the problem before (and can’t watch them due to geo-blocking) but I’m wondering if yours is the same problem?
It is like they were promoted from guarding the keg straight to president of an organization with no intermediate steps.
That sounds like a demotion to me.
これが良いですか？
Nzavgqnl, napnl bhlnl rbcyrcnl bganl vgrjenl vajnl Ratyvfujnl?
[Rot13]
What is this madness! I have yet to find a single post in the entire history of the internet that is even remotely readable!
Now excuse me, while my carrier pigeon explodes with somewhat liquid dentition! Nay, very liquid!
Wow. I had no idea until this episode what a mess (and evidently MRA hive) CFI Canada is.
If I were Payton, I don’t think I’d want to be calling this sort of attention to myself or my organization at the current juncture.
Well, I did not know who D.J.Grothe or Michael Payton were but I do know neither speaks for me. This may be because I am British. I knew of PZ, ED, Ophelia, and Greta (and CPP and Cuttlefish) before the formation of FTB, but FTB has introduced me to many new bloggers some of whom I read regularly and some occasionally, the fact that they are all in one place means that access is now easy.
I think Ed and PZ should be congratulated on the formation of FTB. THANK YOU to all the bloggers at FTB for fighting the good fight and to the commentators for their own contribution to the fight for justice.
@SC #19:
Well, yeah, you wouldn’t do it if you were him, but that fact that HE is him is what pretty much what got him into this mess in the first place.
It seems like he’s proud and unashamed of being an idiot; that’s gotta make it hard not to be an idiot.
well, FTB seems to be a group that agrees about things I don’t agree with!. That’s the OBVIOUS definition of Group-think!
A couple of years back my partner and I went to our first ever meeting of the local atheist group. There we met Justin, not speaking, just dropping in from the big city for a visit with the local peasantry. Over dinner he, first loudly and arrogantly, then loudly and angrily, then eventually loudly and sulkily tried to explain to me why no women deserve any spousal support, child support or anything at all in a divorce unless there’s a pre-nup in place. The specific case under discussion was the high-school educated woman who had worked full time to support the family while her husband got his master’s, said husband then dumped the family as soon as his degree started paying off. That’s her problem, was his position, she should have lawyered up back when they first got together! I talked about the role of the government in protecting the weak or vulnerable regardless of gender and letting the powerful look after themselves. His response was Screw that! It’s men that are the weak ones, women (like half of us sitting at the table) have all the power in society! It’s men that need the protection!
Oddly enough, we never went to another meeting with that local atheist group. Never went to another CFI event either.
So, in other words, CFI is not an organization that values honesty, integrity, knowledge, or a clue on the part of its leaders? At least in Canada?
Nathir, that sounds like an awful dinner. I don’t blame you for never going back. How does such a deluded jerk end up in any position within a free thought community? The mind, she boggles.
From me, too. Well done and thanks.
That’s too bad about CFI. Does anyone know if the rot extends to the Ottawa branch? My daughter & i are relocating there next month, & we were interested in joining.
@ Dick the Damned,
I should know (living in ottawa)but I’m not really involved in the local groups. I did attend one meeting once a few years ago and everyone seemed ok for what its worth.
Michaeld, thanks, we’ll check them out.
#23 Nathair
The dumbness, it hurts.
Marriage IS a contract, with the terms described by laws that require you to support your children and spouse, even after a divorce, as needed. One can make legitimate claims that, in the past, it was biased against men in this regard – until them damn feministi-libbers worked to eliminate sex bias in many laws.
Having a pre-nup for situations that are already covered by the law is like signing two contracts that say the same thing. Pre-nups are usually to opt out of the legal requirements.
If the man didn’t want to fulfill his contractual obligations, he should have got the pre-nup. But it is likely that the courts wouldn’t let him opt out of supporting his own children, pre-nup or not.
I know a few of the CFI Ottawa folk. I guess all I can say is: I’d be surprised if they were real pleased with Payton’s attitude, here, but I guess I don’t technically know. I don’t attend/belong, either, so can’t speak to the organization’s general timbre. I’d been kinda mulling trying to make it to Eschaton (December coming), which is their show, but hadn’t really nailed that down as a commitment exactly, yet.
Anyway, feel free to drop a line if you’re looking for Pharyngulites in and around Ottawa when you arrive.
Nathair No. 23
Thios guy is an idiot. The fact of the matter is that Marriage is a contract by law and has been recognized as such for thousands of years. The terms of this Contract are set up in the various pertinant puieces of legislation. If the guy who is feeling shafted by all this is whining perhaps he should have not gotton married. Perhaps he should have consulted a Lawyer. You get married you have just agreed to the contract. If you want alternate terms get a prenup.
So he has no problem with exploiting someone else for your benefit and then running off?! Sorry you married that person, you willing accepted the marriage cohntract, you don’t get out of the consequences. Oh and if someone sacrifices there own prospects for your benefit you don’t get out of that either. It is taken into account if you bail out.
Oh and your kids are entitled by law to support from both parents you and your spouse cannot sign away THEIR rights.
What this guy wants is for marriage to be consequence free for guys so thay can dumb the wife and kids with no consequenceas. Sorry but if you freely enter into a contract their are consequences once you terminate it.
*shrug* Quebec seemed to get it right with their divorce laws, but then the marrige rate dropped through the floor.
My guess is that the woman in general saw no point in getting married after that.
A similar situation appear to be happening among the “proles” in the ROC (Rest Of canada) and the USA.
Reminds me of the saying, something about “leading the horse to water, but you can not make him drink”.
I also suspect that you guys are going to be finding yourselves increasingly alone, and like Zinnia Jones is discovering, “lie down with dogs, get covered with fleas”, or summat.
The head of CFI Ottawa comments at my blog regularly, and not at all in a libertarian or MRA vein. Ditto her husband.
CFI Vancouver is also good people.
Illuminata, don’t judge all of CFI by this jerk.
CFI Canada is an independent organization. I don’t know much about them, but I know that Nathan Phelps (Fred Phelps’s son) is executive director of CFI-Calgary.
I certainly visit FTB every day for the express purpose of staring at completely unreadable posts. Why else would people come here?
+ 1
Many people see no point. Sometimes the legal trappings that come with it are advantages, sometimes they’re just superfluous. In the latter cases, people used to marry anyway, just out of tradition – and that factor is disappearing. Good riddance. :-|
Thanks to specifically Pharyngula, I’m less alone now than I’ve ever been.
*runs up*
*gives squishy hug*
I think you may have misread Zinnia Jones’ point. Why don’t you go and try reading it again?
Then again, how could we blame you, with how unreadable FTB is?
^_^ ^_^ ^_^
Ditto what Carlie #38 said. In fact, I’m on the verge of getting publicaly involved in our little revolution, and I’ve never joined anything in my good long life. Anyone have good words for any Los Angeles groups? Many thanks.
andrewv696 wrote:
Which I think is remarkably untrue, given the outpouring of support from people who matter. Sure, there are whiny malcontents, but so what?
Really, anyone who doesn’t like that we want the atheist/skeptic community to be more inclusive to people other than dudebros can fuck right off, since as far as I can tell we’d rather be smaller than compromise with assholes for the sake of numbers.
Well, Canada is pretty much the exact opposite of the US, so it figures that their CFI &c. should be awful.
“You’re never getting laid!”
Is that the best you’ve got?
Morgan, try CFI-Los Angeles. I’ve volunteered there for years. Lectures about twice a month, a book club, and a skeptics investigation group (I am not part of the latter.) The Steve Allen Theater is in the same building, and they do some good stuff.
If you come by, ask for me. I’m usually working the bookshop.
http://www.cfiwest.org/info/index.htm
(That webpage is kinda messed up; you have to scroll down.)
–Oh and Ophelia Benson will be speaking here in November, and I’m hoping we can nab PZ when his book comes out.
You’ve met Andrew, I see.
Yea Stacy! Big thanks. I’ll check it out. We will talk about cross town traffic when we meet.
Also on the Quebec marriage thing I’ve been told the decreased rate also had something to do with the backlash against the catholic church in Quebec. Though I can’t say I’m an expert on it.
I know I personally don’t see much purpose in the marriage contract but that’s probably in part because my parents have been living in sin for the last 25+ years…
Fun fact: Tabernak aka the tabernacle is a curse word equivalent to fuck in french canadian slang.
Micheal Payton co-hosted an MRA podcast with Jason Trottier. It’s called The Pendulum effect and the tagline is “From bias to balance”. http://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-pendulum-effect/id301109716 Anti-feminist and writer Warren Farrell is one of their first interviews.
Mark, who blogs at a pit of stupid called True-equality.net writes that he is a contributor and fan of the podcast. PZ’s name pops up there and you can imagine how much they like a man who thinks women aren’t lying bitches who rule over a world of piteously oppressed men. I don’t think it is unfair to think that the only reason Payton finds FTBs so unreadable is that those vacuous shit-bag trolls are his friends, allies and supporters. They share his worldview.
WTF CFI Canada?
I have to say that all this trouble with misogyny was certainly not my prime motivation for reading FtB. But I also have to say that it has opened my eyes to how bad things are for women on the internet. So long live FtB and PZ and Ed and Jason the other men who are supporting the fine efforts of women like Ophelia and Jen and Stephanie and Greta and all the others who are willing to speak up and be heard.
You do realize that pretty much all the big organizations are siding with ‘us guys’. We are winning this fight. Slowly but surely. And in the end it’s not us who will stand alone. It’s you.
By the way, I see no problem with throwing sexist assholes overboard. Any sort of skeptic/atheist community that actually matters is better of without such assholes.
If I’m given the choice of either standing on my own or with a gaggle misogynists, I’d prefer to be alone.
By the same standard, I’ve recently decided that I’d rather live in a neighborhood populated by UFO true believers, Big foot hunters, psychics and creationists than one populated with skeptics and atheists who do not see women as fully human or who are rape culture denialists / apologists.
That’s an apt metaphor. Many of the regulars here are exhausted from all the itching and scratching at the annoying fleas that infest the FTB comments for emotional sustenance.
About opting out of child support by contract in Ontario, impossible.
Certain rights are provided through a relationship that cannot be dumped in a contract, such as the right to live in the matrimonial home. The rights of children are also protected, so that the all powerful females cannot impose their uncaring harshness. OK, wrong. So that parents can’t make a deal about children’s futures without either fully co-operating or with review of a court.
As for Québec, marriage contracts are built in to the Code Civil. Marriage contracts are old news in that province. Federal Divorce law does not over-ride Provincial law relating to marriage and property rights. It’s more complex than that.
Still as moronic as ever
Was somebody asking about Los Angeles? Look! The director of CFI LA, Jim Underdown, has just put in his entry in the “speaking out against hate directed at women” series over at Skepchick.
I’d say you’re in good hands there, morgan.
Wellll, except that he’s engaging in some false equivalency. Mr. Underdown, I mean. Still, his heart’s in the right place.
aleph squared:
I’m partial to the third party religious ads myself…
David:
I can’t stress how much I second this.
I actually feel like I’m part of a community. At this point it’s only online, but that’s significant. For years I felt pretty darned lonely.
****
Rev:
Aren’t you worried someone will consider ‘moronic’ an insult?
/sarcasm
Someone calling himself Michael Payton wrote on Zinnia’s blog:
Poe’s law strikes again!
If one were to tweet a link to a different article from FTB every hour for 24 hours a day, how long would it take to exhaust the catalogue?
Just wanted to throw some more support behind this sentiment,
Thank you.
AJ #31, & Ophelia #35, thanks for the comments. We are relocating to Ottawa early September. We belong to a local Humanist group in the UK, so we’ll be looking for something similar.
I hope that we can get to Eschaton, but we will be busy getting settled in, & we have my little grandson to consider too.
Hear hear!
(also note another of the rare data points for someone with ‘atheist’ in their nym NOT being a douche.) ;>
Just so you know, Justin Trottier is not the head of CFI Canada, and has not been for some time now. He was fired, and then re-hired as Communications Director. Justin has been soundly criticized by the leadership of CFI Canada for his use of his position at CFI to advance his MRA agenda. So please don’t tar CFI Canada with this.
@65: Follow the link. This was Michael Payton, not Justin Trottier.
A plea on behalf of CFI Canada’s volunteers: please don’t blame us for the crap that goes on at head office!
Payton and Trottier are completely removed from the work of the local branches. CFI Vancouver is an excellent organisation, as is CFI Ottawa (@Dick the Damned, I’m also a Brit living in Ottawa and am heavily involved with the group so get in touch and I’ll hook you up – it would be great to have you here, also see http://www.meetup.com/Ottawa-Skeptics/ :-) ), and I have heard great things about the branches in Montreal, Edmonton and Calgary.
These groups (representing the majority of CFI Canada’s activity) are run by volunteers who pour their time and effort into making CFI great, and it is SO sad to see it undermined by those who are being paid from our memberships… CFI Canada is the only gig in town as far as Canadian skeptical organisations go, so it’s all we have! CFI Canada is not Payton. CFI Canada is the many volunteers who work so hard to advance reason and skepticism in Canada.
And just a note to Ophelia, Ian Cromwell and PZ who have so kindly agreed to speak at the Eschaton Conference in Ottawa this December (http://eschaton2012.ca/): thank you for having the patience to stick with us through this. We really do appreciate it.
I expect Payton won’t be attending our talks. Or if he does, he won’t be able to understand them.
I keep repeating this yet it never seems to get through to people
I do not like you. I do not like people like you! I do not want to be with you. I do not want you as a friend. I do not what a high number of useless friends, I have friends I am happy with and am not currently recruiting. if you never talk to me and leave me alone I will be very happy
The Catholic’s lament
I’m sorry, but from what you wrote here, it seems he’s still working for CFI Canada… as Communications Director?!?? So I see no reason not to hold CFI Canada responsible for having him on staff while he promotes his agenda of hate. Haven’t you heard that the Southern Poverty Law Center declared MRA groups hate groups, officially? Would you have a member of Stormfront directing your communications? No? Then why does bigotry against women get a pass?
I didn’t know about Trottier and MRA, it makes me rethink CFI Canada in general. Too bad it’s the only show in town.
…
… Payton’s ‘men speaking out’ essay for Surly Amy’s series just went up on Skepchick today.
http://skepchick.org/2012/08/speaking-out-against-hate-directed-at-women-michael-payton/
If FTB took comfort in numbers, it would convert to Catholicism. I’d say they want something different, like promote their view on things like religion, science, lgbt rights and yep, feminism. In that regard, I suspect that they are not really interested in keeping friendships with guys that get so freaking offended over it.
I found all of FTB completely unreadable.
Last night, right after server maintenance, until I disabled scripts hosted at wp.com.