I’ve sent you a couple of official messages. Acknowledge them, please.
As for your latest uninformed complaint about the Skepchick harassment policy at Convergence, I’ll just make a few criticisms.
-
Yes, the policy says you can’t harass people for their religion. Please note: “harass” and “offend” are not synonyms of one another. I offend Catholics all the time, but one thing I do not do is go stand outside the church on Sunday morning and heckle everyone going in.
Note also that this is a skepticism and science track at a science-fiction convention. There will be Christians, Buddhists, pantheists, and pagans in attendance. It would not be appropriate in this context to deny theists any participation.
-
Your argument that people would use the clause asking that everyone respects requests to stop doing things as opening the door to requiring everyone to respect requests from Islamic fanatics to wear burkas is so ridiculous that it made me giggle. This is Convergence, a science-fiction and fantasy convention. Have you ever been to one?
-
Further misreading: that the policy acknowledges that the Skepchick/FtB group can only monitor what goes on in our party rooms does not mean that there is no larger domain that can have anti-harassment policies enforced. The con administration has been quite clear in how they expect people to behave, and has told us exactly what they will not tolerate…and we’ve been working with the con security. They are taking harassment very seriously, and had taken steps even before we signed on to improve the environment.
You don’t seem to understand that these conventions rely on enthusiastic participation by as wide a slice of the population as they can attract, and consider making it safe for women a high priority.
Also, fear this right down to the trembling hairs on your endangered scrotum: all of the security staff at Convergence that I have met with in the last few months have been women.
-
We cannot throw people out of the conference because we are not the hosting organization. Convergence is. And they have and will continue to throw people out who can’t respect reasonable boundaries.
Also, as a scientist, I would expect you to understand empirical results. These SF/Fantasy cons have been going on for years and have been immensely successful — I often tell atheists/skeptics to go to these things just to see how a large convention (5000+ people) is well-managed and still fun. You can stare at pieces of paper and invent hypothetical reasons why they are objectionable, but the reality is that when they happen, they work.
@ pink monkey
Would you FUCK OFF already?? I’ve read your insipid “GLs” about half a million times now [hyperbole alert]. You’re an embarrassment even to inebriated folks everywhere, not to mention the rest of the sober humankind.
drunk_monkey, please go black the fuck out. Alone, I’m sure.
And on that note, I too am away to bed. 4:40 a.m. here. SIWOTI strikes again!
Please, please, please don’t. Please, please, please be too hungover to continue. Please. Oh dear spaghetti monster, PLEASE let you forget all about this blog.
In other nicer news, here’s the nice poem the Digital Cuttlefish wrote about Thunderf00t’s decision to pole Youtube users:
You know, my cat almost never agrees with me. It’s like she has a mind of her own, and is free to do what she wants.
^ 498. and you guys never see the irony in your own statements?
SERIOUS?
wow…gn, im sure you’ll sleep tight.
pink_monkey: This is your mother speaking. Get your ass to bed NOW before you embarrass yourself any further.
Pink_monkey,
Stick. The. Flounce! Come on, you can do it if you try real hard!
You have flamed out -spectacularly- in just one thread, you should be proud of yourself! Few achieve such ignominy so quickly and with so little effort, but you, you appear to be one of those rare naturals who can make their faults plain to vast audiences every time they open their mouths or put fingers to keyboard.
We get it! Now please, carry out your threat and make yourself scarce, would you? You keep saying that you’re going to leave, but you keep NOT LEAVING. Whyyyyyy?
if you agreed with my comment #375, you’d disagree with your own previous comment; but actually, since you think what I said supports your idea that the guy was socially inept, that means you didn’t understand what comment #375 said.
because grammatical clusterfucks like this sentence are nigh incomprehensible. I have for example no idea what idea you were trying to convey before the imaginary period (or parenthesis) between matter and btw.
only insofar as grammatical clusterfucks and run-on sentences are still technically sentences. I’m serious, you’re very difficult to understand because you write stream-of-consciousness instead of sentences and paragraphs.
that’s mostly because you’ve not provided much substance after coming back, and all your previous points have already been addressed, without responses from you.
try again, in English. or in whatever your native language is, I’m sure someone here speaks it and will be able to translate.
as I said in #375, he didn’t ask her to drink godawful coffee with him. he used a well-known euphemism to ask her for sex.
what? if this is again a claim that no one addressed your points re: elevator guy and his goddamn not-invitation-to-coffee, then it’s even less true now then it was the last time I pointed out that it wasn’t true.
what do you find unacceptable? that we’ve substantively criticized your assumptions and odd arguments (which you STILL haven’t addressed)?
That we can’t understand your extremely ungrammatical writing?
then why are you here, if not for rational discussion?
so that means you’re not going to provide those citations you promised earlier? bummer.
this is even more incorrect, since now you’re even claiming not even fluffy responded substantively. wtf?
oh, so now you’re accusing us of trolling? that’s fucking rich. and hypocritical, considering earlier you were complaining about (imaginary) accusations of trolling against you.
the word “assault” hasn’t appeared until now. we were talking about not respecting boundaries, which in this case at most amounts to harassment.
yes, you stated that. and we explained how this isn’t true, since he disrespected her boundaries, and then cold-propositioned her for sex with a well-known euphemism. you have not yet addressed any of those explanations.
don’t lie. we did, multiple times.
that’s because there’s no way to legitimately interpret cold-propositioning for sex and breaking boundaries as respectful.
*sings* one of these is not like the other…
and of course you’re not going to provide evidence for your accusation that people use homophobic slurs any more than pinky provided evidence for the use of ableist slurs, huh?
you’re disgusting. stop referring to female genitalia like that, you fucking creep.
don’t know about introspection, but it’s rather obvious you’re not looking for an actual argument, since you’ve yet to respond to any and keep on lying about people not having made any.
well, i suppose that would explain the precipitous decline of your English, I suppose…
O.o
oh god, the grammar-fail is catching
Good night, pink_monkey.
It seems like every time we hit this sort of topic, some uninformed twit will start posting on the Elevatorgate subject, despite the fact it has been done to death over and over again, and the same twit will waste everyone’s time by speculating about whether EG was perhaps socially inept, naïve about his elevator pitch would be received, or shy, or in an especially insensitive manuever, will assert that he was probably suffering an autism spectrum disorder.
These sorts of people presumably have watched at least the YouTube video, and have then jumped to a tentative conclusion of some sort, based on her telling of the anecdote (since we have no corresponding tale of how things went from the perspective of Elevator Guy). The conclusions thus reached are often wrong and in need of further correction, because the YouTube video by itself doesn’t mention all of the salient info. Most often this extra piece of information about EG from Rebecca Watson needs to be considered when trying to substantiate the inept/naïve/shy/autistic theory I mentioned just before:
There you have it – in her own words, on her own blog. We have it on as good authority as the YouTube anecdote was (you either trust Rebecca, or you don’t): EG knew what he was doing.
@ Xanthë
Thank you for that quote. I must have forgotten that Rebecca herself had clarified the whole socially inept thing.
So, from now on, if somebody else comes along and starts the whole *but what if he was socially awkward*, I’m going to bludgeon them with that quote.
yeah, me too
@Fluffy
I also flatly can’t believe that any native speaker did not absorb the coffee euphemism.
@Ing
I’m not a native speaker, but the coffee euphemism was immediately obvious to me.
/anecdote
@Xanthë #511
Thank you for that.
Hmm, do I number it 511 ot 11? Is there a way to have more than 500 comments shown on one page?
I see a lot of people here add the 5 since it’s less ambiguous.
Nope.
klatu: Above the “Leave a Reply” text is a link where you can view older comments. I think there is a max of 400 comments per page, and I don’t believe there is a way to show all comments on one page.
Alright. Thanks.
“If it’s offensive to the recipient — it’s offensive. End of discussion. Always was. Always will be.”
Yes, but offensive speech is not actually harassing speech unless it is actually directed at a “recipient”.
I’ll reiterate that I think having a sexual harassment policy is not just good, but necessary. The policy for SkepchickCon seems really well written.
I proposed minor changes, that would make the wording of one of the sentences:
“Harassment includes, but is not limited to, targeted offensive verbal comments related to gender identity, gender expression, sex, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, or race.”
The reasons:
– to make clear that simply saying something that someone might find offensive (such as “We are all African Apes”) is not harassment unless it is targeted toward someone. (Such as pointing at an individual or group and saying, YOU THERE, “You are an African Ape!”)
– include gender expression and identity since they weren’t in there before
– make it even clearer that the policy does not restrict the staff from using their own judgment on what constitutes harassment given a particular situation that might not be explicitly mentioned within the list
It’s just a thought.
Why the heck did I not realize that Convergence was next week and if I would have planned better I could have gone!
I hope everyone has a great time!!
:)
@M. A. Melby #520
I’m not sure how necessary the “targeting” really is, considering that harassment by definition requires a target. But I also don’t see a reason not to include it.
I think that is implicit in this paragraph:
Skepchick and Freethought Blogs organizers will be happy to help participants contact the appropriate CONvergence Operations staff, provide escorts, or otherwise assist those experiencing harassment to feel safe for the duration of the convention.
It’s a very general statement, but can be invoked to cover almost any case of harassment.
One of the many mistakes that TF made was to demand a policy that explicitly adresses every possible situation.
These policies should be short, uncomplicated and easy to understand. Almost nobody reads EULAs.
Which is to say that I agree with the rest of your ideas.
Fluffy,
I was going to post this immediately in response to your comment at D+12, but thought better of mentioning it and suppressed the comment, and then a short while ago a slime-pitter troll over on Almost Diamonds just used the tactic of being on the autism spectrum as a hammer to bash one of other posters there, trying to engage them. I’m utterly beyond the point of annoyance that it keeps coming up. As it happens I’m seeing a psychiatrist later this week, and one of the things I want him to consider working out is whether I’m suffering from an autism-spectrum disorder myself (and this is not a case of hypochondria). It’s a depressingly common maneuver to blame any or all bad behaviour on the autism spectrum: in addition to it being ascribed as the cause of Elevator Guy’s “awkwardness”, I remember seeing it deployed in a particularly asinine way on the TJ Kincaid (The
AmazingAppalling Atheist) thread as an explanation of his “asshole” behaviour. After a while this toxic meme really feels like being kicked when you’re already down.@klatu
Yeah, my suggestion isn’t changing the meaning at all (at least that is not my intent), only to make the wording more explicit and more clear.
I’m speaking from the perspective of having experience writing house rules and policies for live-action role-playing games, creating syllabi, assisting with union negotiations, forging policy documents for academic organizational structures, doing committee work and voting as a delegate responsible for operational bylaw edits and finding consensus regarding platforms of state-level lobbying efforts focusing on a cultural diversity mission.
If you only knew the hours and hours of conversations I’ve had about “the language”.
:)
I’m NOT saying that makes me right, it just makes me look at a document like this and immediately get into “revision mode”.
To those still fuzzy on the harrassment/offensive front, I believe the distinction is down to the person subject to such behaviour.
If someone’s behaviour makes you feel offended, it’s relatively easy to get over it. You’re not falling as though you’re in any danger, just had your hackles raised a bit. this isn’t harrassment.
If someone’s behaviour makes you feel threatened or unsafe in any way, this IS harrassment. The specific behaviours that cause this reaction aren’t able to be quantified or catalogued succinctly, though some behaviours such as those dicussed in many of these threads are a pretty good indication of what not to do.
The point is it’s not up to anyone to decide what constitutes harrassment as it’s up to the feelings of the victim. Any action that makes someone feel genuinely unsafe is harrassment.
No dictionary definitions here, just what I’ve picked up by reading as many threads as I can and using my own personal experience. If you disagree, feel free to educate me. :)
@Sophia
I don’t think the bar needs to be raised quite that high.
A hostile environment can be created through actions that don’t rise to the level of making someone feel “threatened and unsafe”.
I mean, someone could call me a “fat ass” every hour on the hour without making me feel as though I am going to be physical hurt – but the discomfort and annoyance I might feel would interfere with me being able to go my business in peace. So, I would consider that harassment as well.
However, if you are defining “unsafe” more broadly than being concerned for your physical well-being; I would agree.
I can believe it. I think that understanding euphemisms is a cultural thing, rather than a language thing. Guides for Australians moving to the US are full of advice about how difficult it is to understand that just because you speak the same language, it doesn’t mean that you mean the same things by the same phrases. In my experience, people in the US (around San Francisco, anyway) use euphemisms far more often that Australians do, giving us the reputation of being “direct” – which in my neck of the woods is mostly a compliment, because it means not evasive, in the US means “rude”, as in not polite.
As for the “coffee” euphemism, the glaring thing about the situation is how the timing was absolutely not right for coffee. To be honest, if the offer for coffee was said with a straight face, I would have understood the conversation to refer literally to coffee, but with something amiss, such as laced with a date-rape drug. I would have needed to have seen some sort of facial expression as a cue, before I would hear it as a euphemism, but that would not be out of the question. Either way, I would feel wary, and definitely uncomfortable.
M. A. Melby: Indeed, and I agree. My personal definition of unsafe is feeling as though I am likely to be under attack without doing any provoking. Roughly. I know it, putting it into words is more tricky.
Your situation would indeed fall under my definition of feeling unsafe – you would (in my opinion), feel that simply being in that space might lead to you being victimised. That, to me, is feeling unsafe.
This thread becomes much better if you just ignore everything about brainless monkey.
As for the religion-thingy, why is it so hard for some people to understand that you’re not entitled to any conversation about somebody’s religion if they’re just standing there having one unless they want to than you’re you’re entitled to a conversation about a woman’s genitals if she’s just standing there having them unless she wants to?
Oh, wait, stupid question, sorry.
Also, Justin Griffith needs to grow the fuck up. How old is he, 12?
“It’s just for shits and giggles and therefore not bad” is the bully’s excuse since like forever.
Yeah, I understand, it’s easy to think it’s not an issue if you were the one doing the giggles…
Get that fucking “privileged idiot” tatoo removed from your forehead, wash your hands, brush your teeth, wash out your mouth with some soap and then come back to where the adults are.
pink_monkey on the previous page:
We’ve all seen this done to death, over and over and over again. And didn’t pink_monkey start off by saying
? Why yes, he did – right there in his very first introductory comment, no.#312 on the first page. That to me was a very strong indication that he was probably trolling; I think I was the first to use the word “troll” to refer to pink_monkey (which he then complained about) and his subsequent posts have amply borne this out.
Well pink_monkey has resoundingly failed to address any of the gaping flaws in his “argument” pointed out by numerous other commenters. While we’re on the subject, though – pink_monkey, old chap, even IF, purely hypothetically, EG had been as clueless as you suggest (which in reality he was NOT – see numerous comments and RW’s own elucidation cited above), how can you fail to understand that all RW ever did was say “guys, don’t do that” – in other words, if he’d been genuinely socially inept then what she said would have been a help to him. Doing him and others like him a genuine favour. And if he weren’t genuinely socially inept (as all the evidence suggests is actually the case) then her response was the mildest, gentlest, most forbearing admonishment ever.
The response to her incredibly mild admonishment was the shitstorm we all know about, and the coalescence of the slimepit. Which as you very well know, pink_monkey – of course you do, you said yourself you’d been “following this controversy” – refers to a particular congregation of individuals who like to foregather on ERV, so-called because of their unbelievably vitriolic misogyny. The fact that you now choose to refer to your (supposed) girlfriend’s vagina as a “slimepit” does not speak well of you.
And still, over a year later, you come along and pretend you want to Just Ask Questions all over again? Seems I called it right after all.
Ah, sorry all! I should probably have just dropped it – pink_monkey is a tedious little distraction, meandering fuera del tarro*, and you’re rightly tired of him and his irrelevance. I’m still a novice at chewtoys.
.
* I know nobody should explain jokes, but I couldn’t resist this so I’ll just do it anyway: mear fuera del tarro, literally to piss outside the pot, is an expression meaning to miss the point. When I found myself referring to p_m’s OT-ness and deliberate missing of the point as meandering, I felt the compulsion to make a silly spanglish pun. I thank you for your forbearance, and now return you to your usual, much smarter commenters.
@471. Daz, when the wind’s called Mariah I know a hawk from a handsaw – 1st of July 2012 at the palindromic time of 9:59 pm :
Classic! Thankyou. I literally laughed aloud.
Chenneling Dr Suess maybe?
Also vaguely reminds me of the Star Trek : The Next Generation episode where these new aliens speak only in metaphor and are incomprehensible until Picard and the alien leader beam down to a wild planet where they have to communicate to fight an invisible monster and the alien leader dies to enable Picard to understand his species speech.
Shaka where the walls fell?
Chenneling = channaling* (spelling? Even now?) because I can’t flippin well type at my best of times of which this ain’t one.
Of course, I’m not meaning to deny you personally any credit there either – sure its your own work and just my alluding to my own early literary imprinting there.
* Channels /chanals /channa~/~els – canali -> canals -> confusion from Mars precedent and durn these mental blocks! Y’know what I mean I hope. ChunnelingPink Monkeey? (Yikes!)
NO. Sorry I’ll take that last line back if I can.
I’m me. Also drunk and tired and flawed as usual but learning and struggling and not the strawperson some think me to be.
@(5?)16. klatu – 1st of July 2012 at 11:29 pm
Don’t know. If it helps, when I’m not sure about comment numbering accuracy either because we’re on a new page here or because on some blogs there’s moderation and delays which lead to re-numbering post-facto, I’ll use not I only the person’s name but also the time for clarity. Not sure if this is the ideal answer but it does, I hope add some measure of clarity.
… because on some blogs there’s moderation and delays which lead to re-numbering after you’ve posted I’ll cite at the top only the individual -who-I’m-replying-to’s’s name but also the time for clarity.
@ruteekatreya
If Thunderfoot really said that, I will change my opinion of the guy (currently only based on his actual blog posts).
Feel free to provide a link of some sorts.
If he didn’t, well I think you know what comes next.
@122. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls – 1st of July 2012 at 12:15 pm :
You *calling* me a liar does NOT me a liar any more than you repeating *your* lie that I’m a bigot makes me a bigot. Neither of those insulting assertions holds any truth at all.
You seem to have this strawperson (thankyou Skepchick!) idea in your head of who I am and I am not that strawperson.
Outside of this monster in your imagination I exist as a real 37 degree blooded, cat-loving, book reading, sky-gazing human and I behave very differently to and utterly disavow this strawperson you’ve invented.
(Sprays down Nerd of Redhead’s imaginary strawman of me with liquid nitrogen, shatters it into a trillion pieces with a blacksmiths anvil and hammer, uses straw to fill pillow, offers it to Nerd of Redhead with wishes for a good nights sleep if xe’d like it.
You are a bigot, StevoR.
It’s kind of unfortunate if you really don’t understand this.
You are probably the most bigoted of the semi-regular and not-yet-banned commenters here, although I could be forgetting someone.
Feel free to provide conclusive evidence to change our minds. We are right until you show you are right. All you have is non-evidence….Which isn’t skepticism, isn’t science, and is the realm of pseudoscientists and (n)sewagers.
StevoR is a perfect example of an otherwise reasonable chap who turns into a frothing bigot as soon as the conversation turns to those scary mooslems. Then he displays creationist level irrationality while accusing everyone else (who doesn’t support genocide) of being anti-semitic. Just like Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Peter Beinart. Abe Foxman called, StevoR – he wants his schtick back.
If you had posted that jihadists should be killed, and damn the collateral damage you are a bigot. If you posted supporting preemptive attacks on Iran, you are a bigot. Prima facie evidence. But, since you are a paranoid Islamophobic bigot, you can’t see your forest of lies and bullshit showing you are a bigot. Prove otherwise with third party evidence….Your word isn’t worth the electrons used to post them.
@Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls
You’re just way too stupid to carry that “nerd”… If you had nothing to add you could just have kept your stupid mouth shut.
Which part of @ruteekatreya was too hard to process?
That’s not true. I hate those fucking Earth ponies. Anyone who doesn’t probably kills unicorns and makes their horns into aphrodisiac powders since Earth-pony lovers are impotent and sexually unskilled and this is the only way they coudl arouse themselves or anyone else.
@Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls – 2 July 2012 at 12:03 pm :
I’m about five eighths asleep right now and probably less than that fraction coherent but what if anything would it take for you to change your mind about me?
Evidence? Me in real life. Bit hard to convey across teh intertoobs.
I’m going to sleep now and will respond more later. Tomorrow my time. okay I hope?
I’m not the strawperson some people keep making me out to be.
Would you ever at consider that notion fairly?
Gee, no evidence, all attitude, sign of a true loser who can’t make its point. Your posts show why those trying to defend TF are ignorant and clueless misogyists themselves. Can’t get clue without a clue by four. Don’t understand skepticism or science, but do understand how pseudoscientists and godbots operate, and follow their pattern.
You must convince us you are right. We don’t have to convince you of anything (ass backwards as a typical ignorant godbot/creatot). You can’t do that without supporting your lies and attiude with third party evidence. To quote Sgt. Schultz, “I see nothing”…
Are you going to go through your past posts and acknowledge they are bigoted, and apologize to Pharyngula for subjecting them to that rancid words and ideas equal to genocide? Only then will you be properly looking at your past, and why we consider you a bigot. I’ll consider the notion with the same “open mind” as you do.
Hey NerdMoron, are you some broken quote generator or something?
“You must convince us you are right.”
About what exactly? What the fuck are you talking about?
Is this “us” the voices in your head that make you think you’re something else than a pathetic lonely little fuck who can’t even read or process anything and only keeps cut and pasting “need evidence” statements that are completely incoherent and have no relationship to that actual comments you want to appear as if you are responding to? What a sad little prick.
BTW you have already provided all the evidence needed on how freaking clueless you are.
Seconded. You’re not just a bigot but you’re also a bully.
That it took so long for you to get a slap on the wrist for, what is frankly inexcusable murder cheer leading is a sad sign of how tolerated and common place these inherently anti-humanist views are in the atheist ‘community’
Yes you are. You are a fucking moral monster and you try to use people’s decency against them.
Well, you see, the evidence is the STARTING POINT of your argument. Without that, you’re not even worth engaging. And the clueless nitwits are always devoid of evidence…
All your blather must have a point. That is we are wrong about something. I won’t be bullied, like you are doing, into changing my mind. Funny how supporters of “freethinking” always seem to think that means bully people into agreeing with you. I don’t give a shit if you agree with me. But if I’m going to agree with you, I need to see the proper and conclusive evidence after you have defined your vague point.
No, you are the clueless one. You remind of a long argument I had with a bigfoot supporter. He kept going on about how the Patterson film proved the existence of bigfoot. The film only convinced those who wanted to be convinced, not scientists and skeptics. Why? The film was a fake, and even one of those filming it admited it was faked. Your “evidence” is that weak. Where is the captured animal, dead body, skeleton, hair with tags for DNA analysis, or even skat for DNA analysis? That is real evidence that convinces those not predisposed to agree with you.
Geez but the pink monkey is incoherent. I might have to read student papers that are incoherent, after all I’m paid for that, but they don’t get good marks for it.
Communication is important, and while I may not be at my most coherent (it being somewhere between 2 and 3am and I am just heading to bed) I’m still an order of magnitude of an order of magnitude more coherent than pinkie there.
Those assertions that I could understand were incorrect, and kept on being so in spite of being corrected several times. I guess as well as not being able to write English correctly they are not able to read it either.
If people aren’t prepared to spend time and effort to carefully construct an easily understandable, supported by evidence argument, then why should they expect us to spend our precious time trying to decipher it.
Ariaflame, at some point, pink_monkey admitted he was drunk_monkey. Clearly he is totally invested in the argument he was trying to have. So invested he decided to have it when he was shit-faced.
I somehow don’t believe he’s much more coherent when sober, though.
@Nerd
I still don’t know what the fuck you are talking about but at least I know you also don’t. Keep arguing with big foot believers all you like I couldn’t care less. You should make a commercial: He is the most irrelevant child in the world. Stay stupid my “friend”.
Here’s an example tone troll. Who the fuck are you to tell us we are too mean in our posts? On the masthead, PZ Myers, Professor; not jacklewis, prude and fuckwitted idjit. PZ has standards and practices. This includes:
This means you can’t complain about tone, as you don’t have the authority to make that decision. Only PZ does.
Also, you appear to be defending TF. Why are you showing evidence TF (and by association you) isn’t a misogynist, despite his own words showing that? Or don’t you have any solid evidence? Then why can’t you shut the fuck up if don’t have any solid evidence? Science and skepticism involves “put up or shut up”. You haven’t put up. You haven’t shut up. So, what is your point for continued posts? Otherwise, why post?
That is enough for your miniscule mind for a while. Let’s just say you are considered a troll, and you should back every claim with a citation that is pertinent. And complaints about tone aren’t pertinent.
@NerdAss
“This means you can’t complain about tone, as you don’t have the authority to make that decision.”
That’s really not what “What the fuck are you talking about?” means moron.
” Only PZ does.”
And you are not PZ so go fuck your self.
How has any of the useless crap you have posted since I wrote:
had anything to do with the post you are responding to?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
58. Comment by jacklewis blocked. [unkill][show comment]
Aaahhh..!
In the words of Chiun, Master of Shinanju; “Lesson 22: -Blessed- silence.”
why shouldn’t you fuck yourself and shut the fuck up???? You are the one presuming powers you don’t have, and you know that. Nor never will have those powers at this blog.
You made claims. Where is the evidence?? Are you so stupid you forgot your points and claims? The world now knows you are that stupid. You claimed TF (and you) wasn’t a misogynist, for example. Where is your evidence? I still see nothing but a loudmouthed fuckwit without anything to back up their idiocy, who acts stupid when cornered for evidence. You haven’t proven otherwise. What an attitude for such loudmouthed ignorant loser…
Props to Nerd for your perseverance. Once an argument gets to the “shut up” “no, YOU shut up” stage I usually say “fuck this noise”…
It’s not our imagination; it’s your explicit advocacy of genocide (“nuke ’em”, IIRC, was the latest piece of vile genocidal filth to issue from you).
This is just stupid…there is no logical reason that Thuderf00t is being hung out to try like this. Behavior in one place should not transfer over to another place, even if both venues are being uses by the same patrons. Bars are places for carousing while conferences and conventions are places for sharing either ideas or a common interest.
Context is everything and it’s horribly dishonest to stay that there is a problem with sexual harassment at such ‘n’ such event when 90% of that harassment takes place at a location that has nothing to do with that event!
Has it taken much practice to become as clueless as you are ? Did you have special lessons, or did you rely on innate talent ?
Charitably assuming that you mean dry, in which case your sentence would at least make sense semmantically, there’s only one reason why TF is being hung out like this:
He did it himself.
Nobody forced him to write a whole series of mindnumbingly stupid posts as the very first thing on his blog.
@ Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls – 2nd of July 2012 at 12:32 pm :
Which means you assume they are bigoted. What if they’re not? I’ll admit I may have gotten a bit carried away on occassion but I’m no bigot.
Wait, what? Words and ideas are equal to genocide?!? WTF?!
Words and ideas are words and ideas.
Genocide is genocide.
Also I’ve never actually advocated genocide. Defending ourselves from threatened genocide by methods that you may consider go too far sure but I’m NOT and never have siad we should committ genoicde for the sheer sake of doing it. Do you understand why if someone is about to shoot you with a gun in a war and shoot them dead first it isn’t actually considered a crime? That’s analogous to what I’ve been saying.
So only when I agree with you and reject my own views, only *then* you’ll consider me as possibly okay? Nice.
Isn’t it just possible do you think, for someone to hold opposite views to you on some topics and still be a good person?
@”We Are Ing The Matrimonial Collective” – 2nd of July 2012 at 1:11 pm :
Guess I’ll take that as a NO you wouldn’t consider that notion fairly then.
Once again, you calling me something or thinking of me as something does NOT make it true. It isn’t. I’ll have you know that your false judgement of me isn’t who I really am and your unfair unjustified treatment of me here is just that – unfair & unjustified. Well fuck you Ing. I’m not going away.
@KG – 3 July 2012 at 3:25 am :
You misread me and took my words out of context as usual.
Self defense isn’t genocide.
PS. Fuck you too KG.
Thus spake Radovan Karadžić.
Yawn, non-apology from a proven bigot. For example:
Your words say you are a bigot until you prove otherwise with solid third party evidence. What do you give? Your worthless and lying word. Not convinced. And now there are several people calling you a bigot…Your words sink your denial.
Yes only when you agree that muslims are people will you qualify for decent human being status. See how that works?
You thinking your treatment here has been unfair and unjustified does NOT make it so.
They are.
Bigot is as bigot says. Either you are a bigot, or everything bigoted you have previously posted in your long and inglorious history here was a deliberate falsehood not reflective of your actual views. Either you are a bigot or you are a liar. Which one is it?
Hyperbolic accusations that exaggerate a nearly-nonexistent threat level, when targeted against an entire group, is bigotry.
What a pathetic piece of dishonest misdirection.
Genocide using self defense as an excuse IS genocide. Genocide is an act. Motivation is irrelevant.
Odd that we havn’t attacked N Korea yet eh?
FFS, they do not posses any existential threat to you. They are not going to wipe your nation off the earth. You’re scare mongering. You hateful little fuckshitter
Is StevoR actually Bill O’Reilley? All that rationalization and justification about genocide is fucking creepy.
And for the record, I have come late to the party, but I’ve been doing a bit of catch-up reading on your comments, and StevoR? You are coming off as a creep. A huge, overly-defensive creep.
StevoR, I’ve criticized you only because of your own words.
That’s a combination of warmongering, callous disregard for human life, and stereotyping of Islam and Muslims.
If you’ve changed your mind about the ideas you expressed in that post, then by all means say so. (I used to be a right-wing asshole once upon a time; I’m the last person in the world who will judge people by opinions they’ve later recanted.)
What
The
Fuck
That is some blatant bigotry, right there. StevoR, how can you even begin to defend that?
Seriously, is that really Bill O’Reilly? Sounds exactly the same.
@Matt Penfold
how clueless am i Mr. Penfold, do you have police reports about sexual harassment that happened at convergence? Did you talk to the event staff there and they confirmed that there were hundreds if not thousands of complaints of inappropriate touching and phrases that happened within the walls of that convention? Did you not wonder who that poor women Thunderf00t was chewing on and possibly entertain the thought they were close personnel friends and they where two consenting adults horsing around?
And what the fuck does police reports have to do with self-policed function? Those trying to ricicule the situattion are ridiculous with irrationality.
Yet more evidence you are clueless.
Please do carry on though, I only need to get one square and I will win misogynist bingo. If you could just work in something about being asked for coffee at 4am in a lift is not an invitation for sex that would be great.
This level of disbelief that events simply haven’t happened without necessarily being reported is harmful in itself. You are an enabler, although I bet you don’t realise it, of all the Sandusky’s of the world. And Catholic priests.
No one is denying it was consensual, except perhaps Thunderf00t, who spoke about his right to chew legs without consent.
jacklewis, you’re being disingenuous.
Didn’t this all stem from mythbri’s claim (1st page, #145) that:
In that context, why would you assume that “The dude” was TF himself and not a commenter on his blog? If ruteekatreya meant TF why wouldn’t they actually say “TF”?
Maybe it was a genuine misinterpretation on your part …except that in #163 you quoted that passage from mythbri. You knew that the discussion was about the climate on TF’s blog, so it seems less like misinterpretation and more like misrepresentation.
Did you think just because we’ve gone to a new page of comments no one would go back and check?
The number of Trolls in this goddamn forum is utterly amazing, people such as Mr. Penfold, Echdina, and Nerd Redhead feed on perfectly reasonable rebuttals and turn them it abstract shit.
Then how do you know it’s even happening in the first place? If you were harassed then SPEAK UP, we can’t help you and solve any problem if you are mum about it.
Did you not notice my sentence, ‘Did you talk to the event staff there and they confirmed that there were hundreds if not thousands of complaints of inappropriate touching and phrases that happened within the walls of that convention?’
You’re a night owl or you wake up at 3am to go to work, like what my father used to do off and on for twenty-five odd years, and you want to simply yak about the evenings events or upcoming events.
Now, explain how my response was inappropriate? I responded to your post. If you think my response wasn’t right, explain better. I think you were unclear in what you meant and the context to which it applied. Ever think of that before exposing your bias? You were trolling, and everybody here knew that.
Good.
@Nerd of Redhead
I shall repeat:
Did you not notice my sentence, ‘Did you talk to the event staff there and they confirmed that there were hundreds if not thousands of complaints of inappropriate touching and phrases that happened within the walls of that convention?’
I clearly made a statement about the venues self-policed function with regard to the presents of an event staff that should be there to deal with complaints of inappropriate behavior among the patrons, or even the staff itself and you didn’t pick up on it.
I agree. If the event staff have to deal with complaints of inappropriate behavior among the patrons then they should definitely get presents. Lots of presents.
And I shall repeat, what the fuck does the police have to do with the situation? Answer that question.
That wasn’t the statement I was responding to and you know it. So why the fuck was my response inappropriate given I cited your words I was responding to? Is there some duplicity on your part for avoiding responding to that?
gregranzoni,
You have no idea. I’ve worked as the only woman in places that had never had a woman work in with the guys before, and I can tell you tales of harassment directed at me and others that would make your hair curl. I can also tell you that the jibe about Catholic priests that I made has some personal experience behind it as well.
Even so, my tales pale into comparison with some of the things other women and men on this blog have experienced.
Rebuttals? Seriously? This is a debate to you? This is real life for me.
On reflection, this really is a tell. I will bet my bottom dollar that I have far more experience in establishing processes and procedures of different types, as well as dealing with sexual harassment at the corporate and personal level than you have. Stop assuming that you know more than the people you are speaking to. Ask questions instead of lecturing.
*Sniff* Typical MRA/PUA/Apologist posturing.
Ack,My #90 was aimed at gregranzoni, not echidna. Sorry, need moar coffee.
Nerd, I’ll only forgive you if you pour me a coffee too. A nice strong one. ;)
Some of the Redhead’s French Roast on the way via USB.
Thanks. Perfect. I can go to sleep now.
@echidna
Oh i have an idea, because it is my job to deal with peoples complaints, including being harassed by other patrons or even fallow staffers, this is real life for me as well.
@Nerd of Redhead
It’s inappropriate because this WHOLE issue should be clear cut about a person’s behavior in one place reflecting on the environment of another. F00t argument was that you shouldn’t scold a conference/convention/etc for a given problem if that problem occurred at a location that has nothing to do with event and i am in complete agreement with him on that issue, to say that he is wrong on that issue is trolling because it makes scene, an event should not be condemned for actions by it’s patrons at a non associated location.
Now was there harassment at the convention? Dysomniak said that people have spoken up and complain at the convention itself, but the number of complaints MAYBE skewed because complainers reported bad behavior at location that have nothing to do with the convention.
Hey gregranzoni, awesome on the leaving out the part where the entire culture has trained women not to speak up about these kinds of things because of all the victim blaming that tends to go along with it.
“Oh i have an idea, because it is my job to deal with peoples complaints, including being harassed by other patrons or even fallow staffers, this is real life for me as well.”
Aw, it’s your job to deal with this? Well, it isn’t my job to be harassed in the street and made uncomfortable on the bus and venues and stores by dudes who think they are entitled to my body. Good thing it’s optional and I can just quit that and do something else. Wait, no, that’s you.
I am really disappointed with the reactions and tone of the conversation You both set up straw men and good grief you both left us dumber for reading your thoughts. I love ftb and I tolerate tf00t but you’re both wrong in the direction you’ve taken things. We can, and should, do better. I’m saddened, and discouraged…but people that read you deserve more. you mean a lot PZ, and I know you are controversial but you generally do better. i still love to read you…but invective and hyperbole don’t work.
Soxfan, your criticisms don’t help matters if they’re just flung wildly about like that. Try specificity.
gregranzoni:
Good. Then you will understand my utter and complete frustration with being patronised by people who dismiss what women say and behave as if they have all the answers.
soxfanjfw #97
Your concern is noted, cupcake.
Incidentally, if you’re making a complaint it’s helpful if you give specifics rather than generalities. Please give examples of the “invective and hyperbole [which] don’t work”.
Gregrazoni, who gave you permission to think for others?…when you don’t think, but rather repeat MRA fuckwittery and excuses. You haven’t said anything cogent or pertainent.. Typical. Here’s some advice for you: LEARN HOW TO SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN…
@Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls
Clearly the people who are unable to dissipation and reasonable discus the issue at hand. I have done nothing be deliver reasonable arguments and have gotten nothing but emotional knee jerk reactions from people who are unable to think objectively.
I was accused of sexually harassing a patron at a gift shop at the Mazda Race Way and it was the most embarrassing moment of my life. I have become a lot more cautions about what i say to the guests I have to deal with because any cute or silly remark I make during normal conversation could be misinterpreted as a come on.
I have listen and I’ve learned never to get involved in this issue because its impossible to have a reasonable academic discussion with out emotional trolls degrading the conversation.