More fun from the GAC


Here’s another summary of the fun times in Melbourne. Of particular interest is AronRa’s awesome rant at the Christian protesters.

I had lunch with him the next day. He could barely speak.

Comments

  1. says

    I see that one of the religious protestors seized the occasion to brandish a sign condemning Christopher Hitchens to HELL (Hell is scarier in all caps, I presume). Typical demo of love from the faithful.

    Enjoyed AronRa’s disquisition on faith.

  2. Porco Dio says

    Whenever I go down-under they never tire of telling me that ‘straya (and especially Melbourne) is “one of the most multicultural places in the world.”

    Funny that…, this crowd looks terribly Anglo-Saxon to me…

  3. djarm67 says

    Thanks for posting PZ. Loved your “evolved” presentation.

    DJ
    “Storming the city of God”

  4. says

    Hell is scarier in all caps, I presume…

    Honestly, I know what they’re aiming for, but really, I’m beginning to feel the whole ‘heavy sans font’ thing is soooo overplayed by the Westboro Baptist folk and their fellow travellers like these guys…

    (Then again, we did used to refer to that heavy, 200 point stuff as ‘the Jesus type’, back in my newspaper days. As in: generally reserved for the second coming. But here, I guess, y’know… also appropriate.)

    Still, to anyone doing those signs who might be listening, I think maybe you might consider experimenting with a little more variety, here. More whimsical novelty fonts on the ‘Yer a goin’ ta HELL!’ signs, say, maybe. Consider it just a little bit of thinking outside the box, typeface-wise. Or maybe even use something in the Vivaldi area, say, for that ‘Die Sinners Die!’ stuff… Might give a nice ‘Genteel wedding invitation’ feel to your whole spittle-flecked apocalyptic rant. Just might set you aside from the pack, y’know?

  5. says

    There’s the Shadows and the Vorlons, and humanity is caught in the middle. Maybe if we make them face each other, the truth will come out.

  6. kreativekaos says

    I see a couple posts reflected my idea, playfully hinting at sitting back and watching a Christian vs. Muslim tag team match ;)

    I think that would be an interesting, entertaining and edifying sight.
    ( Anybody wanna place bets on who would win round one of said imaginary match?? ;)

  7. echidna says

    Whenever I go down-under they never tire of telling me that ‘straya (and especially Melbourne) is “one of the most multicultural places in the world.”

    Funny that…, this crowd looks terribly Anglo-Saxon to me…

    From Wikipedia:

    Melbourne exceeds the national average in terms of proportion of residents born overseas: 34.8% compared to a national average of 23.1%. In concordance with national data, Britain is the most commonly reported country of birth, with 4.7%, followed by Italy (2.4%), Greece (1.9%) and then China (1.3%). Melbourne also features substantial Vietnamese, Indian and Sri Lankan-born communities, in addition to recent South African and Sudanese influxes.
    Over two-thirds of people in Melbourne speak only English at home (68.8 %). Italian is the second most common home language (4.0 %), with Greek third and Chinese fourth, each with over 100,000 speakers.

  8. Porco Dio says

    Melbourne exceeds the national average in terms of proportion of residents born overseas: 34.8% compared to a national average of 23.1%.

    This quote is moot for the following reasons:

    1) “Born overseas” says little about multiculturalism. Note the top 3 positions on that list: UK (European), Greece (European), Italy (European) along with a substantial amount Irish, of kiwi’s (very few Maoris so mostly European descent) and a boat-load of South Africans (Saffers of European descent that weren’t much interested in living in the new democratic South Africa that fled to OZ)

    2) You can hardly say that Melbourne is multicultural because “we have plenty Italian restaurants.” I kid you not, this is what some dummy told me once.

    3) Australia is an immigrant country. It’s population quintupled between 1900 and 2000, largely because of immigration. White, Anglo-Saxon immigration. It’s an incredibly racist place and foreigners with the slightest tint hardly feel welcome there. I know this to be true not only from the countless anecdotes I’ve heard from immigrants and visitors to the place but also from my own experiences every time I have the misfortune to go back there. I can’t stand the place. Ask any white person if they feel the hostility and they’ll tell you not and that Australia is a fabulous place (it is, whenever there are no rednecks around) but as any person of coulour or, for that matter a Greek or an Italian, and you’ll get the response I’m alluding to here.

    4) Bearing the above in mind, if OZ is such an immigrant country, Melbourne hardly compares to Rotterdam or The Hague which are both more than 50% non-Dutch. OK, I’m sure plenty of those non-Dutch are born there but they come from countries like Morocco, Turkey, Indonesia, Suriname and the Dutch Antilles. Hardly the whitest of people as is evident if you walk around those towns. The same is true of French cities with immigrants from north, west and central Africa to show you what real multiculturalism is.

    5) That considered, why does Australia (Melbourne included and the GAC too) look so goddamned white? My theory is that the non Anglo-Saxon foreigners certainly do choose to live in their own neighbourhoods and have little or no civic contact with the rednecks.

    6) Australia’s immigration policy is pretty damned tough. And I’d go so far as to say that it is, in and of itself, racist. Only skilled workers welcome (unless you’re damned rich of course) which amounts to only university graduates and, therefore, mostly westerners and Europeans. They hardly want the scum of Calcutta making their way to God’s Own Earth.

    It’s true, my experiences in Melbourne have been faaaaaaaar better than the rest of Australia but it’s hardly a melting pot. And don’t for a minute expect me not to LMAO at you if you tell me it’s multicultural because there’s Jewish pastry to be had on Acland Street or African fare to be enjoyed on Brunswick Street.

  9. Porco Dio says

    ROFL… I just check the wiki page of Melbourne Demographics

    You will notice two things:

    First, this map shows that only the UK immigrants (dark blue dots) are really free to integrate while the rest of the immigrants are forced into their own ghettos not feeling particularly welcome in the city/country and therefore stick to themselves just as I hinted above.

    Second, and most hysterically, some dumb Aussie proves my allusion to the fact that they think it’s multicultural because they have foreign restaurants and so made a list of them to show how far up their arses they have buried their heads. Go into any office building in Australia and then tell me how multicultural it looks. Of course so many foreigners are consigned to owning or working in restaurants (even the university educated ones) as they are simply not accepted into mainstream society.

    Ask any honest Aussie and they will admit the same to you and, if you can’t find any honest Aussies, go down-under and speak to any immigrant.

  10. John Morales says

    [OT]

    Porco:

    It’s [Australia] an incredibly racist place and foreigners with the slightest tint hardly feel welcome there. I know this to be true not only from the countless anecdotes I’ve heard from immigrants and visitors to the place but also from my own experiences every time I have the misfortune to go back there. I can’t stand the place.

    Such malevolent bullshit.

    (Feel free to stay away from us)

  11. Porco Dio says

    Such malevolent bullshit.

    Truth hurts eh… How can facts be malevolent though? The malevolence is purely uni-directional and it’s coming from Aussies and directed at all the darkies, wogs, chinks, abbos, boongs, towelheads and whoever else they choose to hate… I’ve heard all those slurs… regularly…, repeatedly…. they are part of normal Aussie discourse. Deny it and you will make me laugh.

    (Feel free to stay away from us)

    I try but I have family in Perth.

  12. says

    Gross exaggeration. Of course we do have a racism problem, but it’s hardly worse than the US or the UK. Our largest non-white minorities are not black but Chinese and south east Asian, so you wouldn’t expect the same crowd look as in the US. As to “any office”, there are many Asian and Asian-descent people in the one where I work, and also in my partner’s workplace. That’s probably because those sneaky Asians are so good at statistics and computing, so we condescendingly let them do that, when we’re not forcing them into running restaurants.

  13. Matt Penfold says

    Australia is such a racist place that people (who are very much not white) quite literally risk their lives to get there. They will pack themselves onto barely sea-worthy boats and head towards Australia. Many, we don’t know how many except that one is one to many, die on the way from disease, are robbed and killed by pirates, or just drown when their boat sinks.

    Of course, the Australian Government does not make them welcome when they arrive, but it is never a good idea to judge a country by its Government, otherwise the US would be even more fucked than it is.

    So given the grave risks of the journey, and the reception they are likely to get if intercepted by the Australian Government, just do so many people attempt the journey.

    Explain that Porco Dio.

  14. jimmauch says

    Was that the Diety and his science advisor that I saw at GAG? Even Mr Big is losing the faith.

  15. Porco Dio says

    So given the grave risks of the journey, and the reception they are likely to get if intercepted by the Australian Government, just do so many people attempt the journey.

    Explain that Porco Dio.

    If you think that OZ is being swamped by boat people you are a paranoid, racist, xenophobe.

    P.S. There are many places in the world where life is a lot more risky and unpleasant than stepping onto a boat into the great blue yonder. But as an over privileged white guy you probably would never have considered this.

  16. A. R says

    Etiquette question: Is it appropriate to ask that a troll be confined to TZT? Asking for a banhammering is considered to be in poor taste, but this is a situation without precedent, so I’m quite clueless.

  17. Snivelling Little Ratfaced Git says

    Wow. Porco, for your efforts I’m going to honour you with one of Australia’s most prized inventions: a very special word. You, sir, are a fuckwit.

    Issues of racism in Australia are worth discussing (yes, there’s plenty of it); we have our fair share. But you just come across as a dickhead.

    Oh no, am I tone trolling???

  18. Snoof says

    “Born overseas” says little about multiculturalism. Note the top 3 positions on that list: UK (European), Greece (European), Italy (European) along with a substantial amount Irish, of kiwi’s (very few Maoris so mostly European descent) and a boat-load of South Africans (Saffers of European descent that weren’t much interested in living in the new democratic South Africa that fled to OZ)

    Because the UK, Greece, Italy, and South Africa are exactly the same culture, despite speaking different languages and having different history.

  19. 'Tis Himself says

    A.R. #23

    Is it appropriate to ask that a troll be confined to TZT?

    I think so. After all, TZT was originally set up as a troll trap, several trolls were commanded to go to TZT, and PZ has banned a troll for leaving TZT.

  20. says

    ‘Tis:

    After all, TZT was originally set up as a troll trap

    Yes, and the main troll of TZT, DH, has been derailing every other thread and refuses to go back to TZT. Xe’s now screeching to be banned, as he seems to think that will prove Freethought Blogs isn’t about free thought at all.

  21. saguhh00 says

    The Faithful are so contradictory. Is Hitchens in muslim hell or christian hell? Don’t they realize that their threats don’t sound the least scary when they are contradictory.

  22. ianash says

    Porco someone called you a fuckwit. I think you’ve got some work to do to reach that level.

    Here’s my scene. I live in Melbourne. I grew up with Greek, Italian and Dutch neighbours. My current neighbours are from mainland China, Vietnam and Ethiopia. I work with Somali and Burmese refugees to help them settle in Aus. I don’t give a flying fuck where someone comes from. Most Aussies are like me.

    I’ve been luck enough to live in Europe and the US for a short stretch. Dickheads like you are everywhere – all hat, no cattle. Try livin’ the life and try helping people from overseas rather than just setting up straw men stereotypes.

  23. Porco Dio says

    Most Aussies are like me.

    What? Most Australians are liars?

    I’d hate to have to refute your arguments with something as pesky as “reality” but allow me to school you in the facts:

    For starters, the White Australia Policy was only done away with in 1973. All the way into the 80’s Australia was 95% white. And racist as hell. There wasn’t some magical wind that blew the racist out of the rednecks back then and, as far as that pesky reality is concerned, it still hasn’t.

    This means the non-white immigrant population (which now accounts for around 10%) has only started arriving in the last 30 years. Which in turn means that if you are older than 35 you simply did not grow up around non-Europeans. That’s over half the population considering the median age is a little over 37.

    Therefore most Aussies are NOT like you.

    Of those younger than 35 approximately 0% (zero percent! Sampling error 1%) of those that grew up outside Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide, Perth and Brisvegas could never ever ever have have had a non-white neighbour because outside of the capitals Australia is, you guessed it, 99.9% white.

    Within the “multicultural” capitals, and considering that the immigrants are consigned to their own neighbourhoods – not by policy but because it’s a lot more comfortable not living around racists – means that the chance of having non white neighbours is very small indeed. Maybe 10-20%.

    This means that those under the age of 35 also simply did not grow up around non-Europeans and are simply not like you.

    [Those of you paying attention here would have noticed that ianash claims to have a multicultural upbringing because hir neighbours cooked Moussaka, Ravioli and Stampot but that’s because Australians have trouble considering Southern Europeans white. They’re just a bunch of “wogs” (Aussie racial slur for Mediterraneans). Therefore they think it’s a big deal to have Greek or Italian friends. That’s just dumb. It’s like a Spaniard boasting that their best mate is Swedish. What a joke.]

    So, spare me the generalization that Australia is multicultural, that Aussies don’t care what race/ethnicity others are and that “most” Aussies are just like you. If you say it is so, then you are either a liar or have your head so far up your ass you can lick you own tonsils.

    P.S. Ask those immigrants with whom you work if they think that white Aussies are racist trash… You’ll get the answer you deserve.

  24. Koshka says

    This means the non-white immigrant population (which now accounts for around 10%) has only started arriving in the last 30 years. Which in turn means that if you are older than 35 you simply did not grow up around non-Europeans. That’s over half the population considering the median age is a little over 37.

    Vietnamese immigration was significant from 1975. This means if you are younger than 50 you would have grown up around around these specific non-Europeans.

  25. Porco Dio says

    Vietnamese immigration was significant from 1975. This means if you are younger than 50 you would have grown up around around these specific non-Europeans.

    First, there was some great work done in OZ after the Vietnam war especially to bring orphaned kids in. After the “White Australia Policy” was dropped it became possible to affect this.

    Second, with the W.A.P. in place no such luxury was afforded to Korean kids in the fifties. Australia was involved in both conflicts.

    Third, 1972 is only 40 years ago, current 50 year old’s were already 10 at the time so you’d be better to reduce the age estimate by 10 or 15 years bringing it more in line with what I mentioned above.

    Fourth, only 30 thousand were allowed entry in the 70’s. This out of a total of 14.5 million in 1980 making Vietnamese 0,002% of the population.

    So you can hardly say that many Aussies came in contact with Vietnamese immigrants on a grand scale. Even to see one would be like finding a diamond in a heap of elephant dung. “Growing up around these specific non-Europeans” is therefore a fallacy.

    Fifth, John Howard, Australian racist Prime Minister, was campaigning for less Asian immigrants as late as 1988 saying

    it would be in our immediate-term interest and supporting of social cohesion if it (Asian immigration) were slowed down a little

    Clearly Australians had already had enough of being “invaded.”

    Finally, how many of those Vietnamese kids were called “gooks” at school? Prolly all of them…

    So much for Australian egalitarian utopia in the 70’s then.

  26. Porco Dio says

    Correction of my bad calculation above:

    30k Vietnames immigrans of a total Aussie population is 0.2%

    Not 0.002%….. My bad… hardly makes a dent in the theory though.

  27. Porco Dio says

    “theory”????

    Call it what you want… Theory of evolution, argument for evolution, stance on evolution… you get my drift…

    You cant discount my position with just two quotation marks and four questions marks…

    Offer something more substantial please, buffoon.

  28. John Morales says

    [meta]

    Bah.

    Troll trolls.

    (Got anything to say about the post topic, troll?)

  29. Porco Dio says

    (Got anything to say about the post topic, troll?)

    How about you then?

    Can’t exactly say anyone has anything to say about the topic because the topic is “here, look at this vid”

    And my stance is, “hey, why so many white people in that vid?”

  30. Grumps says

    As far as I can see Porco is making a pretty good argument that Australia has a racism problem.

    Calling hir a troll and an idiot doesn’t really address hir points. If xe is wrong (and I have no experience of Australia, so I don’t know)some evidence based arguments would be appreciated.

    A mostly lurker just wants to hear both sides.

  31. Porco Dio says

    Porco is a known troll

    Does nothing to invalidate my arguments.

    As Grumps asks you to sock it to me, please give it your best shot or someone might have cause to accuse you of, eeeerrrrrmmmm…, “trolling”!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  32. Grumps says

    @Ing

    OK, a known troll, that’s a headsup, thanks.
    But if they are now trying to engage in a genuine discussion/argument about racism in Australia does their previous trolling behaviour automatically invalidate their arguments?

    Am I being naive?

  33. Grumps says

    Oh my, identical phrasing!
    That’s scary!
    I really posted before seeing Porco’s latest.

  34. John Morales says

    [meta]

    Grumps, yeah, you are. Familiar specimen, is the Porco.

    Porco is doing the derail thing, as if this thread were about Australian racism, with plenty of bogus distortions and spin to encourage controversy. It can go to TZT if it wants to try its hand, but I encourage it to continue (for the obvious reason).

  35. says

    OK, a known troll, that’s a headsup, thanks.
    But if they are now trying to engage in a genuine discussion/argument about racism in Australia does their previous trolling behaviour automatically invalidate their arguments?

    Am I being naive?

    Yes you are. In fact the past history indicates it’s likely not at all genuine.

  36. Grumps says

    Grumps, yeah, you are

    OK, the derailing thing I think I now get.

    I encourage it to continue (for the obvious reason).

    Not obvious to me I’m afraid (still being naive probably).

  37. 'Tis Himself says

    Porco is a known troll

    Does nothing to invalidate my arguments.

    You being recognized as a troll makes it more likely people won’t even read your arguments.

  38. Porco Dio says

    as if this thread were about Australian racism,

    Well, which thread is? Australian racism is hidden under pointy white hoods (metaphor!!!!) so there aint no real forum for it.

    Now I kinda regret not giving PZ the heads-up before the GAC so that he (and others) could be on the lookout for it down under and vindicate me here.

    with plenty of bogus distortions and spin

    Just because you say it is, doesn’t make it so. List and counter the distortions and spin – or wilt thou begone?

    If overt sexism is part of mainstream Australia, don’t y’all think there’s a chance that covert racism runs in rivers?

  39. says

    Did Porco actually even have arguments?

    There were some randomly true statements, such as the existence of the White Australia policy until 1973, and that John Howard is a piece of shit who played to racist sentiments. And some dumb ones, like that culture is the same as skin colour or something. And that we haven’t changed since 1973. Or 1788. Or something.

    Australia, like most countries and most people, has a racism problem – and in a different style to the US and the UK, because of our different history. But Porco has offered nothing to discuss except abuse. No analysis, no suggestions, just WHARGARBL U R RACIST SCUM! Nor has ze shared with us what utopia ze apparently hails from that is obviously SO MUCH BETTER.

    Trolling, not discussing.

  40. Porco Dio says

    You being recognized as a troll makes it more likely people won’t even read your arguments.

    Therefore it is no longer necessary to read my arguments to have the troll label continue indefinitely?

    I mean, really, read the arguments before you make a dick of himself.

    ROFL

  41. Woo_Monster says

    It must be tough to live in a world that is all one big echo-chamber, amirite Porco? It could’t possibly be that you are universally reviled because you are actually a shitty person. No, the entire world must be engaging in some group-think.

    On-topic:
    I love it when Aronra spreads out his hands. It almost triggers a pavlovian response. Aronra raises his hands up to the heavens –> xtians will imminently start shitting their pants.

  42. 'Tis Himself says

    Therefore it is no longer necessary to read my arguments to have the troll label continue indefinitely?

    This isn’t rocket surgery. You’ve established yourself as a troll. Essentially you’ve already shown you have nothing to say but continue to say it at length. If you’ve decided to stop trolling and actually try to have a reasonable conversation, you’re going to have to work extremely hard to convince people you’re no longer a troll. Incidentally, your arrogance and sneering aren’t helping you to achieve this goal.

    It doesn’t do any good for you to whine about being a troll. You did it to yourself. You’re in the position of the Boy Who Called Wolf, only you’re not a liar but have other faults which people will not be overlooking.

    I mean, really, read the arguments before you make a dick of himself.

    First of all, asshole, you can stop the gendered insults. Secondly, I’m not the one who’s a troll. I’m trying to give you some advice. If you’re too much of an arrogant troll to pay attention, that’s your fault, not mine.

  43. Porco Dio says

    Or 1788. Or something.

    Actually, this is a game I like to play when I’m down under… [remember that date 1788 while I ramble]

    What’s real fun is to ask Aussies who discovered Australia. Most of the time they say “Captain Cook” entiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirley ignoring the fact that “islanders” (as they now call them in typical derogatory fashion) really discovered Australia tens of thousands of years ago and who’s disenfranchised descendants are now called Aboriginals (or, just abbos, if you want to be polite).

    Bar the fact that they ignore the real discovery of Australia and what kind of an effort it must have been to get there in (pre?) neolithic times, they are continuously ignorant of the fact that the Dutch had a nearly two century lead on the English in getting to Australia.

    The next question I ask is, “what was Australia called before it was called Australia?” and this leaves them stumped every time. Some people are smart enough to answer the first but, I can assure you, 90% cannot answer this one. They have no knowledge of “New Holland” or of “Eendrachtsland” or even Terra Australis.

    What a bunch of ignorami. Almost nobody down under can relate the story of Dutch explorers mapping and renaming Terra Australis from 1606 and what the world view of the “southern continent” was before, wait for it, Captain Cook (1770) and the “First Fleet” in 1788 nearly 200 years later.

    You see, everything Australian starts in 1788 (‘straya day – they call it now) with the Anglo-Celtic invasion…. And to hell with the rest of them…

    And, do any of them whatsoever know what the Aboriginals called Australia tens of thousands of years before the “whitefellas” got there? Good job we have wikipedia these days.

  44. Porco Dio says

    First of all, asshole, you can stop the gendered insults.

    your handle is “himself”? right?

    That’s why I said

    I mean, really, read the arguments before you make a dick of himself.

    ’twas a joke at your name…

    Who’s your mommy now?

  45. 'Tis Himself says

    Damn but you’re a fucking arrogant asshole. I tried to help you and you’re justifying why you’re insulting me. Fuck off and die, you asswipe troll.

    Comment by Porco Dio blocked. [unkill]​[show comment]

  46. says

    Porco Dio: We’ve got the message. You detest Australians and think they’re all dumb racists. Repeating yourself further will not help your cause at all, so stop now. Stop yourself, or the banhammer will stop you.

  47. Porco Dio says

    Dear Grumps,

    As you can see not one of the naysayers has had even a smidgen of evidence against the fact that ‘straya is an island of mostly racist white bastards.

    I’ll give them a few hours while I’m off on a Pique-nique so they can regroup and consolidate their arguments.

  48. says

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were posting that while I posted the first warning. If you do come back and resume your substance-free slamming, I’ll cheerfully kick you out of here, Porco Dio. You’re on very thin ice right now.

  49. says

    It seems an odd argument, ask a question that’s largely framed in historical contingency then when people give the answer in that contingency to proudly declare that it was a trick question and avail them of their ignorance. If you asked those same Australians who said Captain Cook, would following up that question about the first inhabitants really lead them to think that it was the English who came across this uninhabited land? I’ve dealt with plenty of stupid Australians, but I haven’t come across one who has ever thought the aboriginals weren’t the first inhabitants of Australia. So the question, if it’s enlightening at all, speaks more to how we frame our historical education rather than towards a grotesque ignorance in the population.

  50. says

    Which is, of course, not to deny that there still exists racism or that there’s general ignorance about history in the population. Of course they still exist. But the inference from the line of reasoning is invalid – the evidence doesn’t force the conclusion.

  51. says

    As you can see not one of the naysayers has had even a smidgen of evidence against the fact that ‘straya is an island of mostly racist white bastards.

    Voices to this effect have largely been a minority view and a fringe element of society, and even then it’s usually among the uneducated in Australian society. Politicians who wrap themselves in xenophobia are generally derided in both the media and in their own party – Pauline Hanson is a good example of this. And when such parties who run on such a platform have come to prominence, they still only attract a minority of votes. One nation at its peak only attracted less than 10% of its votes, and even then it tended to be in states and regions of those states with more remote populations. Where violence and racism still exists tends to be among the poor less-educated populations, and in that I bet Australia is going to be no different to most other western countries.

  52. Catnip, Not a Polymath says

    As you can see not one of the naysayers has had even a smidgen of evidence against the fact that ‘straya is an island of mostly racist white bastards.

    You’ve provided arguments that there are racists in Australia. Granted. There are racists in every country.

    You’ve provided no evidence that Australians are mostly racist bastards.

    Therefore, why should anyone provide evidence to the contrary?

    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

  53. Catnip, Not a Polymath says

    And it’s interesting that porco dio makes such broad sweeping generalisations about an entire country. Ironically about racism.

  54. scottrobson says

    So you can hardly say that many Aussies came in contact with Vietnamese immigrants on a grand scale. Even to see one would be like finding a diamond in a heap of elephant dung. “Growing up around these specific non-Europeans” is therefore a fallacy.

    Hmmm I wish I had that diamond for every person of Vietnamese background I met growing up in the 80s in Western Sydney. Since I’m dirt broke I’m going to assume you are just a wanker-troll. You honestly sound like you have an agenda and don’t really know what you are talking about. Did you live in Australia in the 80s? No? Then shut the fuck up.

  55. FossilFishy says

    Porkpie Dipshit:

    Of those younger than 35 approximately 0% (zero percent! Sampling error 1%) of those that grew up outside Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide, Perth and Brisvegas could never ever ever have have had a non-white neighbour because outside of the capitals Australia is, you guessed it, 99.9% white.

    What utter bullshit. I live in an Australian town of 3000 or so people. By your math there should be only 3 non-whites in this town. Unfortunately for you I can personally name 3 times that amount of non-white local residents. And those are only the folks I know, there are plenty of others who I’ve seen around but don’t know personally. Hmmm, could he be pulling those numbers out of his ass? What a fucking idiot.

    Anecdotally I’ll add that I’ve encountered about the same amount of overt racism here as I did back in Alberta, Canada, AKA the Texas of Canada. But that racism has all come from people middle aged and older. Among the younger generations it seems to be much less prevalent.

  56. Catnip, Not a Polymath says

    Ing, I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen its country of origin or domicile. Not that it would matter. Whatever country it was, if we were as dishonest as porco dio, then we could example mine Wikipedia to “prove” how racist it’s home country is. First example would be itself

  57. FossilFishy says

    Oh, and I’ll add that all of the overt racism I’ve encountered has been spoken in quiet almost fearful tones with plenty of questioning looks at my response. Why, it’s almost like these folks have an expectation that I won’t agree with them. Now how could that possibly be if Australia is so very, very racist?

  58. John Morales says

    [OT]

    Anecdotally I’ll add that I’ve encountered about the same amount of overt racism here as I did back in Alberta, Canada, AKA the Texas of Canada. But that racism has all come from people middle aged and older. Among the younger generations it seems to be much less prevalent.

    And much of that racist is conditioned bluster. IMO, IRL, most of these people are damn egalitarian, when it counts.

  59. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    Technically I believe the current aboriginal population is the second wave of humans that we know about to populate this continent. The first wave apparently got pushed down to Tasmania where they died out.

    Are there racist idiots in Australia? Sure. Just like everywhere else. But I am still waiting for evidence that it is as overwhelming a problem as PD implies. The overtly racist parties tend not to get much support.

    The argument that all white people have the same culture is particularly dumb.

  60. Dr Caveman says

    I lived in Rotterdam, Holland for a couple of years and now live in Brisbane, Australia. Although Holland certainly has a higher percentage of non-Western migrants, Australia has its fair share as well. And Australia has much less of the immigrant-induced problems that Holland has (higher crime rates, lower education, religious fanaticism, tribalism, forced marriages, honor killings etc). I think that is mainly due to Australia having a much more sensible approach to immigrants, viewing them as an economic resource who are welcome as long as they are willing and able to contribute to the Australian economy.

  61. says

    Technically I believe the current aboriginal population is the second wave of humans that we know about to populate this continent. The first wave apparently got pushed down to Tasmania where they died out.

    This sounds intriguing, what evidence is there for it?

  62. Ariaflame, BSc, BF, PhD says

    Hmm, a bit of further reading indicates that may have been something that was proposed and not well backed up. I missed Australian history in school as I was 14 when I came here. So looks like just some information detritus in my brain.

    Never mind.

  63. djarm67 says

    I’ve basically lived all my life in Australia. Growing up in Sydney and the Gold Coast, many of my friends and workmates were of many different origins. It is simply not an issue that is accepted.

    Whilst I’m sure that some racism may exist, I’ve seen it myself only very rarely and even then it was frowned on by all those around.

    DJ

  64. KG says

    Ariaflame,

    This article suggests that the idea of two (or more) completely distinct waves of pre-European settlement in Australia has a political purpose – to justify the European dispossession of the Aboriginal peoples. Of course, it wouldn’t do so, and of course, it could still be true. We had a most unpleasant glibertarian here a while back (not sure if before your time), going by the nym “Africangenesis”, who similarly claimed, on no evidence whatever, that Native Americans had exterminated a previous population deriving, ironically enough, from Australia! He very definitely linked this to a denial that European Americans had any responsibilities deriving from the continental-scale land theft their ancestors perpetrated.

  65. Just_A_Lurker says

    going by the nym “Africangenesis”,

    Oh. god. I remember that asshole. Ughhhhh. Porco Dio is similar to him in my mind. Or maybe all these trolls are running together in memory now.

  66. says

    But Porkie is right. Everyone in Australia is racist asshole. Also… Everyone in Australia spends their time wrestling salt water crocodiles, has a pet kangaroo called Skippy and they all wear those hats with bits of cork hanging from it all the time. And all Australians only eat barbecued shrimp. And they all play the didgerdoo. And… Uhm… Boomrangs! Did I miss something.

    By the way, Porkie, did you know the French all walk around with an accordeon and a couple of baguettes all the time and pretty much all of them are onion sellers?

    Long live broad sweeping generalizations!

  67. 'Tis Himself says

    Did I miss something.

    Vegemite and the ability to only say “G’day mate”.

  68. Louis says

    Pentatomid,

    By the way, Porkie, did you know the French all walk around with an accordeon and a couple of baguettes all the time and pretty much all of them are onion sellers?

    This is actually true.

    Louis

    P.S. Plus they smell and have entirely too many types of runny cheese.

  69. KG says

    pentatomid,

    You forgot the most important point of all – Australians are, without exception, called either Bruce or Sheila.

  70. echidna says

    Re Ariaflame@74 and Aboriginal migration into Australia: we were taught in school about multiple migrations, as that’s what the fossil record seemed to suggest. However, that’s not necessarily the case, and more recent DNA analysis seems to suggest otherwise.

  71. Catnip, Misogynst Troglodyte called Bruce says

    Testing

    I’m so stealing that fossilfishy

    (if you don’t object too much)

    (no objections?cool!)

  72. Catnip, Misogynist Troglodyte called Bruce says

    And KG, for the second part

    And I’m fixing the tpyo in the first attempt

  73. FossilFishy says

    Catnip MTB: It’s all yours. I gave up that particular prejudice before I even moved here. My Aussie wife, whom I had only recently met at the time I asked, looked at me like I had three heads when I trotted out that little gem.