I hope nobody is put off by my ‘nym. The “feralboy” was borrowed from The Tick, years ago, and stupid gmail made me put a number on the end. And it sort of reminded me of the “Daffodil-17″ names from Vonnegut, so I kept it. Really, a frozen accident.
Nah, I like feralboy. If people were put off by it, I doubt you would have racked up so many Molly noms. ;)
janinesays
He drove the car for the Civic Minded 5.
janinesays
So, who wants to be the Sewer Urchin?
chigau (違う)says
About 24 hours ago I was sitting in a room that also contained about $215,000 (canadian).
I touched (sorted) about 1/3 of it.
(I’m too drunk to make sensible comments but I offer chocolatehugs and faceslaps to all who merit. sort yourselves out.)
feralboy’s gravatar creeps me out.
but then so does my “new” gravatar.
I seem to have no control over … stuff …
janinesays
I wanna be The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight!
I’m cookin’ with gas. I’ve gotta handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad. Yeah. That’s your spinal cord. Baby. Dig it. Who’s the man? I’m the man. I’m a bad man. How bad? Real bad. I’m a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness.
janinesays
Bah! Warm fuzzy nice nice! What good is science if no one gets hurt?
janinesays
The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does wear the ‘Hello My Name is’ badge! He strikes from below, like a viper! Or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around! He has only the one purpose! Do bad things to good people… WITH SCIENCE!
TLC
Saying “please and thank you” isn’t a problem for mine. Sitting still for 10 min is (especially since restaurants are interesting places to discover)
I take the picture, and then ask everyone in it AFTERwards. Then delete if they say no. (I can show them the picture, too.)
Do you people remember the times when you had a real film inside of your camera?
It was back in those days ;)
Esteleth
Fucking MDs, how do they work. But, btw, not all people are “typical” when it comes to thyroid problems. One of my sister’s biggest problems is that she’s an atypical patient. Her thyroid has an underperformance (?), which usually results in overweight bit of lazy people. Well, she was a thin as a stick “hyperactive” person before. When she started to take meds she crashed so much in weight that it became dangerous.
But fat-shaming really is a problem. One of our neighbours had problems after a knee surgery. Instead of looking, several docs just told her that she needs to lose weight. When she finally got one to look at it, not only did she now need the top surgeon avaible, they were also not sure it they could save the leg or if they had to amputate at the knee…
(Fortunately they could save it)
Hi Illuminata
I remember you had job-problems, have things worked out for you?
Thanks to Caine and walton for the informative posts on the legality of photographing private persons in public. I knew that here in Canada suing for unauthorized publication of one’s image had been done before.
And in my personal experience with unwelcome recording, vague threats of litigation can work to deter camera toting creeps. For me, it remains a kind of situation that felt invasive and unsettling.
Saying that just being out in public is consenting to one’s image being used in every possible way is like pretending that photo or videography is just gathering freely available light, in a social vacuum.
Do you people remember the times when you had a real film inside of your camera?
I still have and use a film camera. A lot of photographers do.
NuMad:
Saying that just being out in public is consenting to one’s image being used in every possible way is like pretending that photo or videography is just gathering freely available light, in a social vacuum.
Pretty much. I would never trust someone like Benjamin around me with any type of gear, whether a camphone or a whole set up.
chigau (違う)says
feralboy12
I don’t really mind your gravatar.
I just find Ken creepy.
janinesays
We’re Filth
We’re Filth
We come from Filth
We’re going to Filth
Caine
So do I, but it makes the idea of deleting the picture a tad unpractical. I would have had to rip out the rest of my pictures, too.
I must say I feel uncomfortable with asking after the fact. I think there are those small things in conditioning that make saying “no” after somebody has taken the picture harder than before. You know, now they already put the work into it and everything, you’re just being a spoilsport.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it.
janine
We’re going to Filth</strike Felt
FIFY
If you do it with a needle, you can relieve so much frustration with that, it’s amazing ;)
John Moralessays
SallyStrange:
I’d like to ask you all to please stop giving Benji a pass when he’s putting on his polite mask. He’s not a good guy, okay? Maybe someday, with help and therapy, he might be, but at the moment he really isn’t. Please either don’t respond to him, or, if you do respond to him, insist that he explain his sexist, unethical behavior, and don’t let him change the subject.
I could not help but note the use of the familiar diminutive, there.
(I consider I am able to make my own determinations about Benjamin and to choose whether (and if so, how) I respond to comments by him)
John Moralessays
TLC talking about Benjamin:
[1] Don’t we want Pharyngula to feel like a safe space? [2] What about new people who aren’t aware of this stupid asshole’s history? [3] Should they be forced to learn what we all already know?
1. You’re not really making it very safe for Benjamin, are you?
2. They can make their own determinations based on the evidence.
3. Who is forcing what, now?
—
Bah.
Pteryxxsays
okay, I waded through a chunk of the TAA thread.
—
Why are atheism and feminism fused together everywhere I look now?
Atheism and feminism and anti-racism and anti-homophobia and anti-worker-exploitation and anti-poverty and pro-choice and civil rights and decency and honesty and pro-public education and a whole lot of other things are all fused together into this thing called “not being a narcissistic shithead.”
-Jafafa Hots
—
“Asshole” isn’t on the spectrum.
-Ms. Daisy Cutter
—
…Finding those made the trip worthwhile. *hoards and beams*
Pteryxxsays
Morales:
1. You’re not really making it very safe for Benjamin, are you?
—
Pteryxx:
Yep, because in the channels I’m responsible for, saying bigoted things that hurt my friends is cause for banning. You’re perfectly free at any time to, say, stop being a bigot-enabling jackass. But when I have to choose between kicking out the person who won’t stop attacking others, and the ones being attacked avoiding or leaving, I’m going to boot the aggressor. Their right to be safe and welcome trumps your right to use a word.
*/ Obama wants to destroy the church in the United States ! /*
*/ Obama is bringing back Mdme Defarge and the Guillotine! /*
wildass remarks courtesy pRick Santorum.
Funny thing is . . . I’d like Obama more if the first of those two was for real.
Just_A_Lurkersays
TLC
My personal ‘kink’, which I haven’t indulged in a long time, is being bit and scratched. Hard. Go watch some footage of lions or leopards doing it and you’ll see what I mean.
I know exactly what you’re talking about it.
If you know what I mean /Mr.Bean Meme
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg”
Saying “please and thank you” isn’t a problem for mine. Sitting still for 10 min is (especially since restaurants are interesting places to discover)
lol. Same with mine. Its just too much wrangling, and bribing to keep her in her seat.
Caine, Fleur du Mal
As difficult as rape scenes are for me to watch, I think if there’s going to be one, it’s best to do it as realistically as possible, as I’ve seen people be utterly shocked by such scenes, to the point that they change their thinking and even examine their own privilege. Think of a movie like The Accused.
I had a difficult time with the rape scene in Watchmen, too, but I think it’s better not to candy coat such scenes.
Yes. This. They shouldn’t be sugar coated because it just makes it easier to shrug it off.
Now I haven’t read or watched the Watchmen, I haven’t read comics in so long. So this isn’t specifically against them. I just get very wary of comic using rape, especially in the female superheros to make them “edgier”. And then they draw out the scenes is just extremely creepy for me. There’s an article talking about it and listing the instances out, like when they did it with Storm. I will continue looking for it.
Happiestsadist
Huh, Ben’s sounding more and more like my rapist ex.
I noticed this before the Jules incident(we need a better way to refer to this, it’s not Jules fault or anything) and have simarily avoided him. I’ve stayed away from this place even because of him.
When the whole thing happened, meeting you guys in some sort of event was a happy dream of mine once I had money and vacation time again. Once the incident came to light here and blew up, it freaked me the fuck out. My brain started working against me about all the ways this could go wrong. I cancelled plans and nobody understood why I was hiding in my house again. I couldn’t really explain why and even if I did, its just really weird and stupid anyways. So it was just one of my weird periods again. It lasted awhile. I’m still not as happy and psyched up to meet you guys as I was before. No offense. =(
———
Has anyone had issues with their kinks and rapes? Like when people close to you find out about them, they start asking stupid questions like “Do you like that because of your rape? or “Did you like it during your rape?”
———
Rip Steakfacesays
Yes. This. They shouldn’t be sugar coated because it just makes it easier to shrug it off.
Now I haven’t read or watched the Watchmen, I haven’t read comics in so long. So this isn’t specifically against them. I just get very wary of comic using rape, especially in the female superheros to make them “edgier”. And then they draw out the scenes is just extremely creepy for me. There’s an article talking about it and listing the instances out, like when they did it with Storm. I will continue looking for it.
Most comics use rape as a way of just degrading a female character (and female characters in comics are already bad off enough). Watchmen did it in a way that’s at the very least interesting from a story perspective.
Unfortunately, I can’t really offer more insight than that, even though I’ve read it. I don’t have much experience with how people handle rapes at all, and I’m a sheltered white kid.
birgerjohanssonsays
Just_A_Lurker
-People who are dumb enough to ask such questions shouldn’t be let outside without their legal guardian.
I think the instance of rape in Watchmen is there because Alan Moore wrote Watchmen.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
Has anyone had issues with their kinks and rapes? Like when people close to you find out about them, they start asking stupid questions like “Do you like that because of your rape? or “Did you like it during your rape?”
Only insofar as my own traitor brain counts as a person close to me. I’m pretty sure I’ve avoided it only through luck, in fact, since I’ve disclosed to some people who turned out to be really shitty people.
—
John, making a request of the other posters here isn’t the same thing as telling you you aren’t equipped to make your own decision. I know you know that. I think I’m not alone in this: Ben has made me feel very uncomfortable here, and the fact that a person willing to say and do the things that he has said and done went completely unnoticed (by me) among the regulars here for a very long time makes me literally ill. I think a lot of us understand what it is like to watch a group of people embrace and accept someone who has behaved badly, has hurt other people, and has not admitted to any wrongdoing let alone stopped or apologized. It doesn’t exactly inspire trust in those people, and I doubt it makes anyone feel terribly safe. I rather assume that you can understand that too, if you think about it. So please don’t get your back up at SallyStrange for requesting that people not continue to do that, because it is a fucking upsetting thing for people to do.
And yeah, I’m okay with making this an unsafe space for misogynistic, manipulative assholes. Sorry.
Did anybody catch Die Antwoord on Letterman? Awesome! No shots of Letterman during the show, unfortunately. Would’ve loved to see his reaction, I wonder if he know what he was going to see (and hear) beforehand.
HOO-RA. /facepalm Call me cynical but I kinda wonder whether it really was a “naive mistake.” Recruiting standards have dropped precipitously in order to feed the meat grinder.
Also, I just learned tonight that Dickens had a character named Dick Swiveller. That’s kind of awesome. :D
Josh, #420: Off and on this past week, I’ve had “CHRISTIAN! SIDE! HUG!” stuck in my head. Alternating with “The Hand of the Almighty” by John R. Butler, more commonly recognized as “God Will Fuck You Up. Anyway, here’s a different earworm for you.
Tethys, #435, that reminds me that I have a version of “Walk Like an Egyptian” in German….
Theophones, #443: AAAAAAGGGGGHHH. Do you have any scars remaining?
Also, thanks for your explanation about Euripides.
Coincidentally, a dear friend of mine who had a leg destroyed in Afghanistan almost two years ago has just started walking on his new prosthetic. I and all his other friends are verklempt.
Caine, #486:
“I’m a woman and I hate feminists, too!”
Not that misogynist women don’t exist (*cough* Abbie *cough*), but I’d bet $5 that “bitchpeas” is a guy.
Morales, fuck off and go play intellectual parlor games with something other than people’s concerns for their safety. And, yes, I said “safety,” because PTSD triggers fuck people up, and because Benji has already stalked at least one person.
Oh, I assumed they were male. We have had the genuine deal here, though, such as needfulcarp, who I went at least 10 rounds with and ended up banned for being a highly annoying MRA.
Hmm, I’m wondering about something and would like input.
I had a session with my therapist and we did a dream-voyage. Nothing spectacular, I should imagine a flower and as “homwork” I was given the task to paint that flower.
Now, I suck at painting. If earth’s future depended on my ability to draw 10 recognizable animals, you’d better start packing. So on my way home I was contemplating if I could get away with doing it as applique embroidery and while my “verbalizing*” mind was doing that, the “acting” mind took a wrng turn on the road.
Actually it wasn’t so much a wrong turn but the way I took when I was still living with my parents.
Now I’m wondering, did my subconscience try to tell me something or was my brain just so occupied that it just took the better known because used more often road?
*I’m lacking a better word here, but, you know, the part of your brain that talks in your head while another part of your brain is doing other things like driving a car or washing the dishes.
re: Benjamin
Yes, I think it’s time for people to stop giving him a pass. I don’t know, I kind of hoped every time that he had learned something, that maybe he’d gotten it, but no, I don’t think so anymore.
He’s manipulative, he’s a bully, he doesn’t give shit about triggering people. He’s also a misogynist.
So, I’ll just stop interacting with him. I think we’ve confronted his bullshit often enough. That doesn’t mean I’ll give it a pass when he does it again, but I’ll not engage him.
John Morales
1. You’re not really making it very safe for Benjamin, are you?
Good!
You know, he’s demonstrated time after time again that he gives a fuck about hurting other people in the process, he’s not willing to change his behaviour one yota on behalf of rape-victims or people struggeling with other serious issues, even if it doesn’t cost him anything.
Do you think we need to make the world a safe place for such people, or one for rape-victims?
Just_A_Lurker
lol. Same with mine. Its just too much wrangling, and bribing to keep her in her seat.
We usually try to avoid “formal” restaurant occasions with them. There’s a Chinese restaurant with a playroom and a buffet if we want lunch while shopping in town.
In all other cases we get them a babysitter if we want to go for a fancy dinner. I don’t feel like spending a lot of money to ruin our evening and that of other people as well.
For them, food is just something they need, it’s nothing they enjoy and celebrate.
BTW, Giliell or Gil is OK, the part after that is the PS du jour
So how do you find the balance between being melodramatic and being a pollyanna? A friend has a very bad health problem, but has very good prognosis. When I worry I feel like I’m being all DRAMA, but when I try not to worry I feel head-in-the-sand optimistic.
Atticus Dogsbodysays
BREAKING NEWS: Journalist has a sad when online alternative medicine poll is subjected to reality.
Carlie, give yourself a break here – serious health problems are scary and give rise to all kinds of thoughts, many of them on the drama side of the fence. Keep breathing and remind yourself every now and then to look at the big picture. Treat yourself well, realizing this is a stress on yourself too, and it will be easier to be there and be supportive for your friend.
Giliell, the flower doesn’t have to accurate, you could do an impressionist flower or something along those lines.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
So how do you find the balance between being melodramatic and being a pollyanna? A friend has a very bad health problem, but has very good prognosis. When I worry I feel like I’m being all DRAMA, but when I try not to worry I feel head-in-the-sand optimistic.
Be honest about the problem and prognosis, but be cheerful and use as much humor as you can. Assist by doing some things they can’t. Find a way to laugh at the situation. So far it’s working in my case.
ChasCPetersonsays
I know there’s another text format add on, Ichthyic uses it, it uses a right click menu rather than a toolbar.
It’s called BBCodeExtra. Works just fine with FF 10.
As Peter Yarrow has been painstakingly explaining to peopleblatantly lying about for the last few decades, it’s an innocent children’s song.
fi
it’s just Pachelbel’s Canon in D sung in another key.
eh, there are similarities but the chord changes are not the same. You can look this shit up.
Caine
I know (impressionist? you’re kidding, except when you mean that I would give the impression that I tried to draw an orchid ;)).
My question was more about why I took a wrong turn on the road. Is there something about it or was it just a mistake and I’m over-analyzing because of the circumstances?
I’m sure you know this habbit of doing little “feasability studies” for projects that mostly never come to life, I do that fairly often, especially when doing something like driving or cleaning
birgerjohanssonsays
“First Neanderthal cave paintings discovered in Spain” http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21458-first-neanderthal-cave-paintings-discovered-in-spain.html
So would our friends at Stormwatch count them as “mud people” or “Aryans”? Considering that Africans are closer relatives in terms of genes shared…while the Neanderthals were the first nordic people to have art. It would be a fun way to make the White Power types explode their brains trying to figure it out.
— — — — — — —
NB!
“FDA-approved drug (“bexarotene”) rapidly clears amyloid from the brain, reverses Alzheimer’s symptoms in mice” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-02-fda-approved-drug-rapidly-amyloid-brain.html
Bexarotene has been approved for the treatment of cancer by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for more than a decade. These experiments explored whether the medication might also be used to help patients with Alzheimer’s disease, and the results were more than promising. Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bexarotene
— — — —- —
Finger-painting is fun :D Same as making mud pies and building sand castles (or in my case, sand-piles) and jumping off the swings when you’re going really really high!!
“FDA-approved drug (“bexarotene”) rapidly clears amyloid from the brain, reverses Alzheimer’s symptoms in mice”
Everyone needs to hold their horses with regards to this one, a mouse brain isnt a human brain. The mechanism by which this works is interesting however, the clearance of beta-amyloid plaque happened by increasing expression of Apolipoprotein E (that’s what the bexarotene does). The more ApoE, the more and faster clearance, and not only that, but the rate of cognitive recovery was rather astonishing (72 hours).
Aaaaw, you need some play time. I love finger painting, it’s great. Swings, I’m lucky with, there are swings a short walk from my backyard. I can be found on them regularly in good weather. :D
Eheh, I know I know. Kitty needs some play time. There’s supposedly a park nearby, but I’ve never been. I’m not too heavy so I probably wouldn’t break the swingset if there was one.
Giliell, I think you’re over-analyzing. As to the flower, why not finger paint? Finger painting is fun. :D
Thanks, that’s what I was driving at.
*rolls around idea of finger painting*
*pictures kid who flatly answers the question “do we splash liquids all over the floor? Are we allowed to do that?” with “Yes!” and finger paint*
I think I’ll only do that in summer when you can let them do it naked and can wash them afterwards with the garden hose .
Talking about kid fun and painting, I’ve noticed time after time again how many adults will take the first excuse they can get to pick up paper and crayons and paint.
Or build something with Lego.
DLCsays
Giliell : If you lived with your parents for a longer time (in the same place) than you lived elsewhere alone, it’s most likely that your brain just flipped on autopilot while you were otherwise occupied and routed you down the most familiar route.
I wouldn’t put too much thought into that. There have been times when I would get in my car to go to work and the next thing I knew I was in the lab setting up experiments. I knew the way to the college so well that getting there was no challenge. I can’t imagine now how many times I must have driven that route.
Giliell, I have a large collection of Crayola Crayons and other Crayola products. I have a number of vintage bits, including a full canister of red finger-paint powder dating from the early 1900s.
carliesays
Thanks, Caine and Nerd. I think much of my problem is feeling impotent about it – I’m geographically removed, so there’s really not much of anything I can do. So even worrying about it makes me feel self-centered, because it’s not like that helps them any, it’s just about how I feel about the situation and not worrying makes me feel callous.
Caine
I believe it, you are an artist, you’re allowed to have them. I find it amazing how many adults really enjoy painting or building with Legos but somehow think they’re not allowed to.
OMG this world is crazy. I just upholstered the little one’s Viking helmet for carnival next week and they actually felt the need to write on the inside of it that it is indeed a toy and does not offer protection helmet-wise…
I find it amazing how many adults really enjoy painting or building with Legos but somehow think they’re not allowed to.
I know, I think that’s sad. Every time I’m at the Barnes & Noble (which is fairly often), I never neglect wandering through the toys/puzzles/games area. I have my eye on several lego sets, I expect they’ll follow me home soon enough. :D
diannesays
But I need to know whether any of the mice were called Algernon.
It depends on what the researchers have read. If they’ve read the right book, they were all called Algernon.
As Rorschah has already pointed out, mice aren’t people so no declaring Alzheimer’s cured or anything. OTOH, since the drug is already on the market, the phase I trials can be skipped or attenuated. Promising, but not definitive.
Of course I can’t buy them right at the moment cause I just spent about 50 bucks on cute clothings.
waltonsays
So much kid stuff I haven’t done in so long :\
Well, I’ve never really accepted this whole being-an-adult thing. I still watch Rugrats and Garfield and Friends. :-)
I entirely lack any talent for drawing or finger-painting, however. (I never much liked art and craft activities when I was a child, and was quite spectacularly bad at them; I would always get frustrated and upset that I couldn’t make things look how I wanted them to look. My pastimes were reading books, lots and lots and lots of books, and watching TV.)
waltonsays
(The only creative activity I was ever good at was creative writing. Particularly poetry; I loved writing poetry from quite an early age. I still do, although I’m not practised enough to be great at it.)
(The only creative activity I was ever good at was creative writing. Particularly poetry; I loved writing poetry from quite an early age. I still do, although I’m not practised enough to be great at it.)
Then get yourself a pot of magnetic paint, paint an area for poetry play, then get several different boxes of magnetic poetry. I have at least 5 boxes of those around. :D
Not much for painting or Legos, but always like just doodling until a whole sheet of paper is covered. Sometimes I try fill the page without lifting the pen. Harmless fun and therapy.
Time for drugs.
birgerjohanssonsays
(Advert)
COMMENT 666 COMING SOON!
DO NOT MISS OUR COMMENT 666 IN JUST 95 POSTINGS FROM NOW
— — — — — — — — — — —
Well, I’ve never really accepted this whole being-an-adult thing.
Wasn’t it Rebecca Watson who said that the good thing about being an adult was that you actually could have rainbow-cake for breakfast or something like that?
I entirely lack any talent for drawing or finger-painting, however. (I never much liked art and craft activities when I was a child, and was quite spectacularly bad at them;
Ah, that was me with painting. My arts marks usually skyrocketed when it was anything but painting, which sadly didn’t happen often (paper and colour are easy and cheap).
The only thing I enjoy drawing are costume drafts. I learned over the years how to basically draw a human body and how to draw cloth falts.
waltonsays
Oh, and Katherine: I love your new fantasy blog! And I like the fact that you were a lot kinder to your orcs than Tolkien was. :-)
You whetted my appetite with the reference to the humans’ “representative monarchies”, though. You should definitely tell us more about the political systems of your world.
===
Wasn’t it Rebecca Watson who said that the good thing about being an adult was that you actually could have rainbow-cake for breakfast or something like that?
You tell me this just as I’m in the middle of eating dry granola for breakfast?
I’m exhausted, and it’s late. I just wanted to share that I treated a lady at work today, who turned out to be a science fiction writer. Like, published and all. How cool is that.
I’ll be getting to the different political climates in a short while. After the whole “here is the world” and “here is the main continent” posts, I’m going to get to the “here are the different major cities.” The major cities mostly have different types of governments – for example, Tavsere is a representative monarchy, Seiis is a representative (literal) theocracy, Moore is a true monarchy – so naturally I’ll get that information in when I get to the city descriptions.
I think it mostly goes to show how much work I put into my story’s backstory. I’ve been working on it for fifteen whole years, and I’ve got (approximate) dates for major events, characters, histories, legends, geologies, and all kinds of other things like that just milling about in the back of my head.
Carlie, I was thinking about the Pachelbel Rant since Josh first mentioned the Canon upthread. Have you heard the Taco Bell Canon?
Loudsays
Afternoon all.
Please excuse me, but I’m just going to rant because I’m stuck at work arguing with two of my colleagues over their ridiculous and sexist attitude to women.
Both of them are even raising daughters, like myself. When I asked them how they would feel if their daughters came to them after being discriminated for being a woman, one answered that ‘it’s just how the world works’, and the other said he’d essentially tell her to ‘man up’ or just deal with the issue himself with violence.
I feel like I’m banging my head against the wall and feel so hopeless that I can’t even get through to people I know (and who are otherwise decent people) for a change in attitude.
This after reading the comments section of a Daily Mail article on a councillor successfully getting prayers banned from council meetings…
Thanks for listening!
Happiestsadistsays
Just_A_Lurker @ #525: Sort of. Well, I used to be a switch. The switch is now permanently soldered into the “top” positions. And one of my former kinks is now one of my strongest PTSD triggers. And I always have a vague sense of blame for having put myself in that position.
Morales: It is impossible to not exclude some people in any group, whether actively, or by encouraging bullying douchebags to remain, thereby ostracizing others. We are merely taking a stand against predatory douchebags and stating our preference for those who are not.
really, I can’t see how the mice put up with all this experimentation — considering they paid for all this in the first place. /Douglas Adams
Duh! They want to get their money’s worth out of the place. The experimentation is part of the program running and if it stops, they might just get the penultimate question, the answer to which is 41.
chigau (違う)says
I have always hated having people tell me how to behave.
waltonsays
I’ll be getting to the different political climates in a short while. After the whole “here is the world” and “here is the main continent” posts, I’m going to get to the “here are the different major cities.” The major cities mostly have different types of governments – for example, Tavsere is a representative monarchy, Seiis is a representative (literal) theocracy, Moore is a true monarchy – so naturally I’ll get that information in when I get to the city descriptions.
*is excited*
Serendipitydawg (Physicists are such a pain sometimes)says
Hooray! Though, of course, it only stops them making them item 1 on the agenda, it doesn’t stop them praying – you wouldn’t know this from the comments, however.
A friend of mine, who is Scottish, has a husband who is a French citizen of Greek descent. They have one son, named Dmitri. They live in France, but when Dmitri was born, they were living in Scotland. The registrar gave them a hard time about his name, claiming it was “foreign” and “people might not like it.” (Note that this was not some rural hamlet, but Edinburgh.)
The only other time she got any flak for how she named her son was when he was six months old and she was in line with him at the post office to buy stamps. An old woman was cooing over Dmitri, and when she learned what his name was, she said, “Oh. Oh, that poor, poor child!”
His mother replied sweetly, “That’s OK. He’s got three other names to chose from: Constantine, Ezequiel, and Maximilian!”
The old lady stopped speaking to her after that, kept peeping sadly at Dmitri, and whispered this information to her friend.
When my friend reached the front of the line, she spotted a friend of hers, who had overheard everything. She grinned and asked my friend with a straight face, “You figured out which bloke it was in Ibiza that knocked you up yet?”
“Nah,” my friend replied, “but I figure I’d give him a name for each of ’em, just in case!”
The old lady behind her damn near had a heart attack.
Pteryxxsays
walton:
I entirely lack any talent for drawing or finger-painting, however. (I never much liked art and craft activities when I was a child, and was quite spectacularly bad at them;
Sooo not the point. ~;>
Somewhere I have a standard rant about people being far too concerned with being good at art, as if that were some sort of prerequisite, when it’s been demonstrated that students who just practice art often enough end up producing higher-quality work. (see: Art and Fear) Quality’s got little to do with effectiveness (see XKCD) and less to do with enjoyment. My drawing teacher had us do disinhibition exercises, such as drawing still lifes with hands and paper hidden under the table, or with only five minutes to finish (or two minutes, or 30 seconds), or with our eyes closed; or with un-erasable Sharpie.
If you actually don’t like playing with paints or crayons, AFTER any mention of quality or skill has been removed, then by all means don’t bother – but I’ve rarely seen anyone uncouple the two. “Never apologize for your art.”
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
Phew, finally slogged through the TAA thread to the finish. I kept wondering why AoS was so fixated on TAA’s ratings, like having a poplular video series had anything to do with topic, or the video not being in bad taste. Finally, after 1000+ posts, it came out he thought we actually spent a lot of time at You-Tube, and could do something about it. Not a good communicator. Sorry, I don’t listen to rants on You-Tube.
diannesays
Bideford Town Council prayers ruled unlawful.
First thought on reading this: “So were they praying to a chaotic god or what?” I don’t even play AD&D. Must stop reading Order of the Stick so often.
Michael Nugent is a great guy. Here is his speech in the recent debate with Hamza Tzortzis in Dublin on the motion of “Is the world better with religion ?”.
janinesays
Except for a handful of people like AronRa, I mostly use YouTube to find music videos. Most of the time, when I link to a non music YT clip, it is because an other cite pointed it out.
Never heard of TAA before this. And the argument that Ace Of Seven had, that we atheists had to condemn him like christians and muslims need to condemn their extremists was silly. TAA does not have the same impact in RL as the Phelps clan, killers of abortion providers and terrorists.
janinesays
Nerd, it is good that you just read that thread instead of getting involved, you need to get some rest.
(Yes, I will keep repeating this. You need the reminders.)
Loudsays
@Serendipitydawg #584
Hooray! Though, of course, it only stops them making them item 1 on the agenda, it doesn’t stop them praying – you wouldn’t know this from the comments, however.
I read the comments on this on the Daily Mail article. I regretted it instantly! Lots of ‘persecuted’ Christians, and plenty of ‘Christian country if you don’t like it get out’ advocates.
The strange thing is what the ruling was based off. Not a breach of human rights or anything to do with keeping Government secular, but based on a minor point of law from the Local Government Act 1972.
Neither had I. Ace’s insistence on castigating us repeatedly was seriously annoying me. The amount of sexist/misogynist crap we get here is bad enough, we’re supposed to be tracking down every misogynist douche on the internet? Yeah, right.
As for youtube, you couldn’t pay me to hang out there.
janinesays
As for youtube, you couldn’t pay me to hang out there.
I avoid reading the comments to the videos I link to, especially when the performer is an attractive woman.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I’ve heard of TAA before all this. I used to be an EDiot.
It took me a while to remember, but he’s the heavyset guy on youtube with the Not-James-Randi beard, right? Apparently he’s been mockworthy for quite a long while.
I avoid reading the comments to the videos I link to, especially when the performer is an attractive woman.
I expect that’s the only sane choice.
carliesays
Have you heard the Taco Bell Canon?
No, but now I can’t stop hearing it in my head!
Loud, all you can do is be a voice of reason. If they start hearing it from enough places they might realize the world doesn’t agree with them anymore.
I’ve always been fairly sure that one definition of being an adult is dealing with the fact that nobody cares about what your problems are when you have a job to do. Sorry you’re distracted by your own personal issues, but that report and that order form still have to be filled out before lunchtime. (no, I’m not bitter about how my morning started off today at all.)
Serendipitydawg (Physicists are such a pain sometimes)says
The Bideford council item was on the 13:00 news and I waited for the item because after hearing the headline in the intro to the programme, I was predicting an immediate response from the CofE that would be something to the effect that this was yet another attack on xianity… I wasn’t disappointed, and the particular cleric that they interviewed made no valid case for the place of the church in local town politics, more a case of ‘we belong everywhere’ and not liking it when the National Secular Society demonstrate that they don’t.
Bideford isn’t, as far as I know, a town with the greatest ethnic and cultural mix and I would be really interested to know what town councils in places like Manchester, Bradford and Birmingham approach this: do they have multiple prayers for every one of the religions of their councillors?
Sasano-Bori, like well executed chip carving, appears to be beyond my skillset.
I’m incredibly jealous of that wicked knife/hatchet thing he’s working with, too.
chigau (違う)says
We’re out of honey.
I hate tea with sugar.
Youtube comments are stupid.
janinesays
I see that chigau is now experimenting with free form verse.
(Sorry, I could not resist.)
Serendipitydawg (Physicists are such a pain sometimes)says
@Loud #595
The strange thing is what the ruling was based off. Not a breach of human rights or anything to do with keeping Government secular, but based on a minor point of law from the Local Government Act 1972.
Indeed, I couldn’t believe this particular little nugget.
It was interesting that Exeter’s bishop has very much the same attitude as the people of Rhode Island who didn’t see why the law has to be obeyed. Mind you, I bet the bish couldn’t believe that prayer could ever be unlawful.
It still doesn’t make any difference; they can only not make it part of the official business of the council by placing it on the agenda and it says so much that they are all up on their hind legs complaining.
Ace of Sevens was ridiculous and obtuse. The atheist-sphere online is huge. It’s not our job to police all of it. Hell, it’s not even our job to be aware of all of it.
Janine, with very few exceptions, I don’t use YouTube for anything but music, comedy, and the occasional movie or TV clip. Maybe the very occasional documentary. I’d personally rather read what someone has to say, so I can skim, particularly if there’s introductory material of any kind.
Bloggers can be annoying enough. I don’t have any obligation to upgrade from textual to visual and audio annoyance by keeping up with every damn wanker on YouTube, either. Never mind wading into the comments.
chigau (違う)says
Dang.
I was going for haiku.
A. Rsays
Daisy @606:
…Bloggers can be annoying enough. I don’t have any obligation to upgrade from textual to visual and audio annoyance by keeping up with every damn wanker on YouTube, either. Never mind wading into the comments.
I agree completely, plus very little intelligence exists in the YouTube comments anyway.
Anti-gay bigots jailed, official prayers banned in council meetings and Xian B&B owners not allowed to hide behind the Babble as an excuse for bigotry.
Queue the radio phone-ins lamenting the UK abandoning its Xian roots…
Richard Austinsays
The thing I love most about Legos (though I could only really articulate this as an adult) is the quantum nature of the blocks: because you’re forced to deal with rather bulky discreet units, you have to use your imagination on the final product. It’s a less passive version of seeing shapes in clouds. They come in enough different sizes and styles that you have some options, but there’s always the minimum basic unit that you can’t go below.
One of my coworkers brought in a box of Legos for a project she’s working on: she’s trying to teach the scrum programming methodology, and is using an “assembly line” metaphor to do it with the Legos as the product. This resulted in two things.
1) The box she brought in was her daughter’s (which is a yay), but it’s pink. As in, the actual box they were sold in was pink. All of us (including her) railed against this – not that there was an option for pink Legos, but that pink Legos were being marketed explicitly to girls, thus implying that the non-pink Legos were “for boys”. I’m kind of surprised but happy that every single one of the programmers (and most of them wouldn’t self-identify as feminists) saw this independently and were immediately annoyed for the right reasons.
2) She left the box on the table for 5 minutes. Of course, since four of us were sitting there, she then had a pile of random Lego creations at the end of the 5 minutes.
3) The notion that a space ship could have horses as landing gear came up. This is why Legos are awesome.
Phew, finally slogged through the TAA thread to the finish. I kept wondering why AoS was so fixated on TAA’s ratings, like having a poplular video series had anything to do with topic, or the video not being in bad taste. Finally, after 1000+ posts, it came out he thought we actually spent a lot of time at You-Tube, and could do something about it. Not a good communicator. Sorry, I don’t listen to rants on You-Tube.
Actually I think AoS was actually so fixated on it because atheists via views and merch give TAA 50K a year for being him.
James May did a series on toys and the first ep (I think) was a Lego challenge – to build a house and all the things in it out of legos. It was fascinating.
The thing was I can see where AoS was coming from and tried to engage him on what I thought was the relevant point. I still don’t get why he seemed to mostly ignore me since I was admitting to being the type of people he was mad at and kept talking to everyone else though.
Somewhere I have a standard rant about people being far too concerned with being good at art, as if that were some sort of prerequisite, when it’s been demonstrated that students who just practice art often enough end up producing higher-quality work.
Not the point either.
I mean, sure, most people can get proficency in almost everything with enough practise. Whether you enjoy something and are therefore willing to invest that effort, or simply enjoy it although you suck at it (I like singing and dancing, I’m not good at either) is a different matter.
But, well, not enjoying something and sucking at it is a good recipe for being frustrated with something.
My brother in law (who is a talented painter) also had problems understanding that I really don’t care about drawing or painting. He also claimed that “well, you can learn the techniques”. Sure, I could, just like most people can learn how to cook, but, well, I’m not interested.
. I kept wondering why AoS was so fixated on TAA’s ratings…
Yeah, I found Ace of Sevens annoying, too. It was this air of “you should all stop doing what you consider important and start doing what I find important. Actually you should have started doing that a long time ago.”
I still don’t get why he seemed to mostly ignore me since I was admitting to being the type of people he was mad at and kept talking to everyone else though.
Because plainly stating their problem wasn’t the aim and neither was working toward some sort of “fix”. All they wanted to do was blame someone, and Ace decided it was The Horde’s fault that TAA was operating at all. Then there was the continues influx of people who said they’d never heard of the asshole at all prior to the post and Ace finally had to acknowledge that.
Ace obviously has some serious problems when it comes to youtube (such as not having a boatload of viewers) and primarily hangs there and did not want to deal with the fact that most Pharyngulites don’t hang out there and don’t want to, either.
Loudsays
@Teh kiloGraeme #609
Queue the radio phone-ins lamenting the UK abandoning its Xian roots…
It’s already happening. Eric Pickles, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, has already said “While welcoming and respecting fellow British citizens who belong to other faiths, we are a Christian country, with an established Church in England, governed by the Queen.”
waltonsays
Anti-gay bigots jailed,
Personally, I’m not at all “cheerful” about the over-broad and ill-defined criminal offence of “stirring up hatred on the ground of [protected characteristic]”, which is unnecessary and should never have been created in the first place. (I understand that the offence in this case was that of putting threatening leaflets, which advocated the killing of gay people, through the letterboxes of people in the local area; for that, they could equally easily have been charged under the Malicious Communications Act 1988.)
And I’d venture to suggest that a prison sentence for handing out leaflets, even highly offensive and threatening leaflets, is absurd. We need to get out of the paradigm of prison-as-punishment; it’s led to England and Wales having by far the highest incarceration rate per capita in Western Europe (more than 150 per 100,000), with most of the increase in the last two decades being more and more use of short prison sentences for minor crimes, where other countries would use administrative sanctions instead. (This is good for the private prison industry, but not for anyone else.) Imprisonment, given that it completely destroys a person’s life and makes him or her much more likely to commit further crimes after release, should be a last resort for the most extreme perpetrators of violence who cannot otherwise be contained.
At least one social conservative thinks that at least one family should have used a contraceptive.
Sometimes I wish I was amazed that Rachel Maddow receives the scorn she does from part of the population.
I saw that segment. What a nasty old dude that was who claimed that Maddow’s parents should have used contraception so that she would have never been born.
A particularly nice segment is this one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#46335749
Rachel discusses the push for legalizing gay marriage in Washington State. It features Republican State Representative Maureen Walsh giving a speech in support of marriage equality. Great speech.
And I’d venture to suggest that a prison sentence for handing out leaflets, even highly offensive and threatening leaflets, is absurd.
After reading the gay suicide story again: Fuck off Walton.
Pteryxxsays
Giliell: yeah, I said that’s why art SKILL should not be a prerequisite for art ENJOYMENT. But lots of people don’t or can’t enjoy making art because they’re so concerned about lacking skill in the first place. It ought to be the other way around.
Serendipitydawg (Physicists are such a pain sometimes)says
@Loud,
Eric Pickles is due to speak on PM tonigh, though I don’t think I can be bothered to listen. The whole point is that it is unlawful to place prayers on the agenda of a council and apart from amending the local government act, there isn’t a lot to be said on the matter.
Phew, it’s hard work catching up… work has instituted a blanket ban on most blogs during working hours, so I get 30 minutes between 13:00 and 13:30 to try and keep up with FtB. I preferred it when they just blocked Facebook but a few people have obviously been overdoing it on their fave blogs… not me, obviously ;-)
Happiestsadistsays
Cosigning Ing @ #621. The effects are indisputable, and measurable. Actual human beings matter more. Full stop.
waltonsays
After reading the gay suicide story again: Fuck off Walton.
If you’re implying that I don’t care about gay kids who commit suicide, then fuck you too. That’s one of the most offensive things you could possibly have said to me. I’m bisexual myself, and I will not have you slander me like this. I will not. You can fuck right off.
(And it’s a typical authoritarian tactic. Right-wingers use exactly this kind of dishonest emotional manipulation to attack the ACLU and criminal defence lawyers all the time: accusing them of “not caring about the victims of crime” when they stand up for prisoners’ rights or the rights of the accused.)
I do not believe, having studied criminal justice and its effects on society at length, that using prison as a form of revenge is ever a good thing. I am not going to apologize for that. The knee-jerk reaction of “this person has done something bad and harmful, therefore the state should lock them up and make them suffer” has caused immeasurable harm to our society.
Loudsays
And I’d venture to suggest that a prison sentence for handing out leaflets, even highly offensive and threatening leaflets, is absurd.
So what’s the answer then? Because surely we can’t have these hate-mongering bigots on our streets, right?
Obama is about to announce that he’s going to expand the religious exemption to the contraceptive coverage. Fuck. I was looking forward to actually getting my birth control pills paid for by my insurance. Stupid fucking Republicans.
cicely (Insert Clever Appellation Here)says
I was hoping that we could help Benjamin, and I hate to give up on him, but he seems…clue-proof. If he’s not even going to try, there’s not a lot of point in tolerating his down-sides.
–
I thought Jules left due to limited Internet access, just before the incident with Benjamin? If it was otherwise, then Jules, please come home! We miss you!
–
Hi back, aladegorrion. :)
–
tl;dr me: the benefit of the doubt has finally worn off.
This, in a nutshell.
–
He hasn’t done anything to merit banning, so we either keep on going around in circles or ignore his ass.
Maybe ignore him except when he needs correction? Linkys to previous examples of the same might help to keep it short, and limit the interactivity.
–
Somebody please give me another ear worm.
Try this. Works for me every time. *runs away giggling madly*
–
…Have you people got ANY idea how frustrating it is to try and locate a song without having heard any lyrics?
Oh hell yeah. A lot of the time, the lyrics in a song don’t register at all, which makes my usual approach (google lyrics; “excerpted bit of lyrics”) impossible. Humming at Google does no good at all.
–
Congratulations, Richard Austin; you have just over-written Spleen Weasel all over “Dreamweaver” in my mind’s ear.
–
waltonsays
Cosigning Ing @ #621. The effects are indisputable, and measurable. Actual human beings matter more. Full stop.
What the fuck has this got to do with what I was saying? Actual human beings matter more than what? The people sentenced to suffer in prisons – and yes, prisons are fucking hellholes – are actual human beings too. They’re actual human beings when they are released, too, and find themselves with no job, no home, and permanently unemployable because of their criminal records. And our society’s fetish for locking people up has ripped apart millions of families and ruined millions of lives.
This has nothing to do with approving of anti-gay hate speech. I am bisexual. The people writing these leaflets want to put me and people like me, and many of my closest friends, to death. Don’t you dare fucking accuse me of making excuses for their behaviour or of not caring about it. Don’t you dare. I am as opposed to homophobia as anyone is, and I have plenty of personal stake in it.
I simply do not want to live in a society where our response to everything is to have the state take violent revenge. Human beings need to grow out of the desire for retribution. And I will not apologize for that, I will not back down, and I will not accept Ing’s dishonest framing of me as someone who does not care about the victims.
dontpanicsays
Skipping to the end ’cause I can’t really see at the moment…
The Sailor:
Nutmeg, when a good friend of mine’s daughter committed suicide I went over and raked their yard. They understood.
Also, their yard really needed raking and I’m a lousy baker.
$*%^, that made me cry. Because I fear that someday I’ll need someone like you to come rack my yard and I’m not sure I know anyone.
Esteleth,
Do you have a pointer to something about “Ritalin (which has been documented as doing Bad Things to people on the spectrum)”? I’d be interested. Spawn, went through a bunch of medicines when he got the ADHD label, prior to the PDD-NOS diagnosis … to answer a previous question in the TET: no, the later diagnosis doesn’t automatically nullify the earlier one, in spawn’s case the two are comorbid. … anyway, while trying out one of the stimulants he was just completely out-of-control, angry, vengeful, etc. One incident in a store parking lot had a passerby asking whether they should call the police. I wonder if that’s one of the known BadThings™? Sorry to hear about your experiences w/ sexism and ASD.
If you’re implying that I don’t care about gay kids who commit suicide, then fuck you too. That’s one of the most offensive things you could possibly have said to me.
You’re the one defending the actions which cause kids to die. It’s hardly unsurprising you’ll catch some flak for that stance.
I don’t think you don’t care about victims. I just find the lectures on the importance of freespeech are incredibly callous in this regard.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Cicely: I used to be stupid and clueless before too. I used to say and think overwhelmingly misogynist things too, before I learned better. So it gave me a misguided urge to try to be merciful to Ben.
One huge thing I’ve learned about feminism and combatting the creepy-ass rape culture we live in, if I’ve learned ANYTHING here, is that it needs to stop being socially acceptable. We need to stop overlooking this shit, excusing it away, and putting their right to say stupid misogynistic shit above people’s right to generally feel safe.
Please, by all means, correct me if I’m wrong.\
One more thing: I would have never considered changing my shitty ways, if it weren’t for a few feminist-types (long before pharyngula) telling me exactly why my bullshit wouldn’t fly and what was wrong with it.
Ooooooo, Obama is tricky. He made it so that insurance companies are required to offer contraceptive coverage to women (free of charge), so that it wouldn’t go through religious organizations. He basically went over the heads of the stupid Republicans. Oh, that was great. The conservatives are going to freak out. I withdraw my previous anger and pessimism; I’m happy now.
Rey Foxsays
Ahem, everyone in this thread. Buy a box of crayons and some paper. Draw a picture this weekend. That is all.
Already got a picture I’m working on, so I’ll stick with my Prismacolor pencils if you don’t mind.
janinesays
(And it’s a typical authoritarian tactic. Right-wingers use exactly this kind of dishonest emotional manipulation to attack the ACLU and criminal defence lawyers all the time: accusing them of “not caring about the victims of crime” when they stand up for prisoners’ rights or the rights of the accused.)
And this is a rather pathetic attempt to discount Ing’s concerns, comparing “Fuck you Walton” to that.
Instead of focusing on the punishment of vile people who claim that they are only acting out of the best (religious) principles, how you we protect youth from such vicious people.
Seriously, Walton, would you have liked to received that pamplet when you were a teen and struggling with trying to be open about being bi?
By what means should these children be kept safe?
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
I … beg to differ.
*THE BIGGEST HUGS*
I meant outside of text (where I have an easier time knowing what to say) :) And hey, it might not be true there either, for all I know. I’m having a down-on-myself time about it lately because, well, two different people I love have been hurting lately, and I have therefore been very conscious of the fact that I don’t know how to respond at all, and as far as I can tell (admittedly this is kinda circular because I could just be missing my own nonverbal cues) I seem to go very stoic and calm outwardly under those circumstances. And in the past I’ve been accused a couple of times of having the wrong reactions to other people’s pain, so it’s something I worry about somewhat extra.
Yeah, I found Ace of Sevens annoying, too. It was this air of “you should all stop doing what you consider important and start doing what I find important. Actually you should have started doing that a long time ago.”
Combined with the “you”s and “people”s that obviously referred to us in some way and ignoring of responses, followed by “Why do you think I’m talking about you?”, followed by “Sorry I assumed that about you,” followed by “Even if you don’t do it, it’s a problem that you need to talk about,” followed by “Here’s this random comment from 2010 that perfectly illustrates the problem here,” followed by “You claimed I was accusing you when I wasn’t talking about you at all”…
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Oh My.
The Walton is breathing fire today!
I gotta admire the passion displayed, even if in this case I think Walton is being just a teensy bit misguided.
Instead of making a statement one way or the other, I want to echo Janine’s question.
I love me some “Die Antwoord”. If you have the time, you might want to watch this (about an hour long) video of a christian trying to take down one of their videos. I really don’t know whether to laugh or cry out loud. The commenter is just so fucking out-to-lunch in his criticism. All the OTT parody of overblown machismo he takes for real. And he is so beside the mark about South African culture, he makes one’s head spin. I also think that he doth protest too much. (The video was taken off youtube for a long time, methinks for copyright reasons, but it is back in all its misguided ignorance.) Linky: Satanic Music Video Exposed (Ooooh, we are all soooo scared.)
@ Ms Daisy Cutter 531
AAAAAAGGGGGHHH. Do you have any scars remaining?
Fortunately my face healed up pretty much 100%. The problem was that some of the scars on my body turned cancerous and I had to have these removed. The most serious was a large scar on my shoulder which got quite bad. Misdiagnosed then misdiagnosed again meant it got treated late, but luckily in time to save me. End result is that a big chunk of my shoulder got cut out, that took very long to recover. It will never be 100%, but it is pretty close and causes very little trouble. I don’t mind my scars. I just regard them as alternatives to tats.
@ Kitty 542
I’m productive! The Tallis race has now been put up on my non-nym blog.
Aah… I recognise some very Pharynguly traits in the Tallis. *gives big thumbs up*
@ Kitty’s Kitty
{Mollyphontes hops onto couch and starts patting the keys with her paws}
[note to readers: Wow, it looks like Molly is sending a message to Kitty.
Kittehz + Interwebz = … well, let me just say that I wish to welcome our new feline oberlawds.]
@ Starstuff 627
Obama is about to announce that he’s going to expand the religious exemption to the contraceptive coverage.
Does this mean that people who don’t want free contraception for religious reasons are exempted from having to receive free contraception?
(Wishful thinking I know. The religious loons obviously want their narrow point of view shoved down everybodies throats.)
Happiestsadistsays
Walton, frankly, given my own academic experiences as well as lived knowledge of the fuckery of the justice system, while I think you are right that it’s currently deeply fucked up, I find your anti-prison stance absolutely morally, criminologically and ethically indefensible and agonizingly naive. The fact that you’re yammering about free speech over the bodies of dead queer kids is saying a lot more than you want it to. Perhaps you should think on that for a while. You’re defending the (highly disputable) philosophical concepts over the clear, measurable results. If you don’t like having it pointed out, stop doing it.
You’re the one defending the actions which cause kids to die. It’s hardly unsurprising you’ll catch some flak for that stance.
I am NOT “defending the actions which cause kids to die.” I am arguing that punitive imprisonment as a form of revenge is a bad thing, and that more violence and more state repression will never fix anything. That does not translate into defending anti-gay hate speech, and to claim that it does is simply a lie.
Using more violence and state repression is not going to solve anything. I spend my time talking about, writing about, and studying state repression and violence. Particularly in the context of immigration detention and the appalling maltreatment of undocumented immigrants and asylum-seekers, who are put in detention camps or left to die at the border. But the penal system is part of this too. Prisons are hellholes, the penal system is a fucking catastrophe, and locking more people up will not help. It will make things worse.
What should be done instead? Education. Changing the culture. Protesting against homophobia, racism, sexism, transphobia and anti-immigrant bigotry. Speaking out against it. We all do this. We all know how to do this. We all know that it has an effect.
Walton, do you remember the last time you were going a tad overboard about people in prison and I mentioned that you rarely had a well balanced view? You know that’s a problem you have. I think your sensitivity often keeps you from focusing on the victim side of these issues and I can understand that, it’s tough, truly tough.
All that said, I think you really need to try a bit more in having a wider, more balanced view of such situations, rather than always settling for a narrow focus which hangs off the extreme end of a viewpoint.
I know you don’t lack empathy. However, when you get going with your narrow focus, you come across as someone who lacks empathy and understanding.
Richard Austinsays
I only ever got threatened for being gay once, and that ended up turning out “okay”. So, I don’t know that my perspective is entirely relevant here (though I have a different history).
My position is… conflicted. I know where Walton is coming from, and I see the inherent problems with criminalizing speech one doesn’t agree with.
At the same time, there are certain patterns of speech that tend to lead to certain crimes, and if we wait until the crime is committed, it’s too late: a victim is dead or permanently scarred (phsyically and/or emotionally). There are also certain patterns of speech that lead to inherently oppressive and victimizing cultures; while there may be no explicit crime committed, there is still a victim.
How do you solve that? Yes, there may be long-term, ideal solutions such as improved education and such. I know that. But that doesn’t help in the short term, and it may not realistically help even in the long term: look at the civil rights movement, where things have improved over 50ish years but the original problems still exist. How many people are we willing to “sacrifice” in the name of a long-term solution that may never fully materialize?
I’ve read that the existentialists in Paris used to have arguments about oppression, and that the two methods for handling it were “destroy it” and “escape it” (that’s probably oversimplified). I’m starting to wonder if “destroy it” isn’t really an option, and that escaping it may be the best choice. But how do you apply that to the 13-year-old who is being told by everyone and everything he knows that he’s an abomination and a horrible person?
RATS! Or maybe just a rat. I think it’s a rat. In my apartment. Fucker woke me up 2 nights ago by knocking over the water glass next to my bed, but I thought I’d done it in my sleep.
And 3 nights ago I did notice I had to clean up some pistachio shells from the floor, and an hour later I had to pick up a couple more, but I just thought I’d been careless with my pistachios.
Then last night something woke me up again and I lay there wondering what woke me and I heard a sound from my kitchen that sounded like a cat playing with a paper bag. I don’t have a cat.
I flipped on the overhead just in time to see a shape dart into the gloom, galloping, bounding, not scurrying. But I didn’t have my glasses on and I was 1/2 awake and it was a fleeting impression. When I crawled under my desk where he had darted I found a full pack of cigarettes he’d stolen. There were 2 perfect marks about the size and shape of a flat staple.
Does that sound like a rat?
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
What should be done instead? Education. Changing the culture. Protesting against homophobia, racism, sexism, transphobia and anti-immigrant bigotry. Speaking out against it. We all do this. We all know how to do this. We all know that it has an effect.
Well, file that under ‘long-term strategy.’ What should be done RIGHT NOW to protect these people? Because people are dying, whether by someone else or their own hand, RIGHT NOW because of this shit. Prison and criminal response may be a bit heavy handed, it’s certainly a clunky and unelegant solution, but RIGHT NOW, it appears to be all we have.
I am arguing that punitive imprisonment as a form of revenge is a bad thing
Walton, you do too much fucking projecting. Consequences tend to bring about social change, whether you fucking like that or not.
waltonsays
Walton, frankly, given my own academic experiences as well as lived knowledge of the fuckery of the justice system, while I think you are right that it’s currently deeply fucked up, I find your anti-prison stance absolutely morally, criminologically and ethically indefensible and agonizingly naive.
I have studied criminology in my academic life, and I have been interested in criminal justice systems for years. I have never argued that there should be no prisons or that no one should ever go to prison. For the likes of rapists and murderers, there is probably no other option in our present fucked-up society.
However, in the US and UK, there has been an increasing obsession with locking more and more people up in the last few decades. It’s much worse in the US (with mandatory sentencing, “three strikes” laws and the “War on Drugs”, and a prison population in excess of 750 per 100,000), but the UK is far worse than the rest of Western Europe. This destroys lives, and it actually increases crime, given the high rate of recidivism among people released from prison. And the culprit is the culture of punitivism: the idea that the justice system is there to “punish” “bad people”, and that the solution is to lock more and more people up, rather than trying to help or educate them.
We cannot fix anything through more criminal sanctions or more imprisonment. We cannot fight injustice with more state violence. It does not work. It makes things worse.
The fact that you’re yammering about free speech over the bodies of dead queer kids is saying a lot more than you want it to. Perhaps you should think on that for a while. You’re defending the (highly disputable) philosophical concepts over the clear, measurable results.
No, I am not. The state of the prison system, and the effect of being imprisoned on a human life, is a “clear, measurable result”. I was not “yammering about free speech”, and that’s a mendacious and extremely hurtful distortion of what I said.
SC left a message at Joe.My.God. getting on some of the commenters for condoning prison rape for the just imprisoned pamphleteers.
That’s not me! It doesn’t link to my blog, does it? If it had been me on Blogger, my little avatar would be there. (I certainly can’t claim ownership of the two initials, but on Blogger I kind of can.)
Happiestsadistsays
The Sailor: Sounds like rats to me.
janinesays
Sorry, it sounded like it could have been you, though a bit shorter than normal.
Still, I have to agree with what the other SC said.
I’m bi and I’ve been threatened way more than once, usually with rape and I was once sucker punched directly in the face coming out of a gay bar. It’s all kinds of fuckin’ fun.
They’re probably my favorite race I ever created, solely cause they’re so much like me. Fascinated with technology, curious, scientifically minded, very smart, loves their families, a bit ADD, and (in the other stories without local, visible gods) atheists.
I’ll have to wait to get home to let Snip send a return message to Molly o.o
Pteryxx
I think we’re in agreement.
I have a friend whom I admire a lot in that respect. She sucks at everything, and I’m really not mean here, she does. When preparing crafts workshops, she is our guniea pig for the worst case crafter. If there’s a mistake that can be made, she’ll make it, if there’s a question that would never occur to us because for us it’s a no-brainer, she’ll ask it.
But she does everything with enthusiasm, dedication and joy.
The Sailor, teeth marks the size of a flat staple? That’s kind of large for a rat. Might be a squirrel.
Happiestsadistsays
Walton: Seriously, look into Caine’s suggestions. I know you aren’t lacking in empathy, but you are really coming off like it. Really.
ChasCPetersonsays
After we carve out you-all’s favorite exceptions to freedom of speech, we can get busy on mine.
Then, Rick Santorum’s.
cicely (Insert Clever Appellation Here)says
SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!
There is no spoon.
But yeah, The Tick was awesome.
–
Ahem, everyone in this thread. Buy a box of crayons and some paper. Draw a picture this weekend. That is all.
Sorry, Katherine; no can do. My mind is still stuffed full of jellyfish. :D
–
Richard Austinsays
Caine:
I’m bi and I’ve been threatened way more than once, usually with rape and I was once sucker punched directly in the face coming out of a gay bar. It’s all kinds of fuckin’ fun.
I hope I didn’t come across as minimizing it; that was the exact opposite of the intent of my statement: that I haven’t had that personal experience, so I don’t know if my perspective means much.
(I unfortunately know plenty of people who have suffered bashings – even one straight guy who worked in West Hollywood. Two online friends who ran a bar in Washington were stalked and beaten.)
What should be done RIGHT NOW to protect these people?
Hate speech like that does cause a lot of harm. It can create an environment where bullies feel all the more justified in beating up on people who have been stigmatized by such rhetoric. But more simply it can lower peoples’ self regard and cause psychological stress. As we are entitled to a clean physical environment, we are entitled to a clean social environment free from such noxious memetic pollution.
It is not necessary to meet verbal violence with physical violence from the state. Simply fine the perpetrators of hate speech. Increase the fines exponentially so that you can catch up with people wealthy enough to pay the initial fines. We fine people who wrongly park in “handicap bays” or who pollute the environment, why not fine people for poisoning everyone’s social milieu.
Classical Cipher, Murmur Muris, OMsays
False equivalence much? The speech Frothy would like to restrict isn’t the kind that is killing children.
janinesays
Katherine Lorraine, just a heads up. I see that at Ed Brayton’s blog, you commented on something slc1 said. Please keep in mind that he has proposed genocide as of means of ending Islamic terrorism. I am sure that Walton has the links to these statements.
And now I have to go to class, for which I’m already late. Great fucking timing, Walton.
I know you aren’t lacking in empathy, but you are really coming off like it. Really.
I empathize with the victims and their families a hell of a lot. I am strongly opposed to anti-gay hatred. It ruins lives and kills people. (As someone focused on refugee rights and asylum issues, I’m all too horribly aware of the horrendous impact that anti-gay hatred has had in much of the world.)
I also empathize with people whose lives are ruined by the prison system, and their families. Whatever they have done, and however they ended up there. I do not think this represents a lack of empathy, nor does it diminish my empathy for the victims.
I can say nothing else on this subject. I’m sorry for yelling at people, but I was really, incredibly, personally hurt by what Ing and others said, and I can’t ignore that. Nor can I back down, because I care very deeply about this issue.
Skipping to the end to say Giliell – re: your driving to your parents’ house question – have you read Thinking, Fast and Slow? That’s an example of “fast” thinking – the kind of thing you do with your brain on autopilot.
It’s an excellent book, I highly recommend it.
Thomathy, now angrier and feministersays
Frankly, I agree with Walton on his point in regards to prisons. I don’t think it’s fair to expect Walton to have the answer to the question of what should be done about vicious anti-gay propagandisers presently, though. I think everyone knows that’s not really fair. They’re two separate issues.
That being the case of course -that they’re two separate issues- Walton, you’re hijacking a gay teen’s suicide as an excuse to talk about how awful prisons are and how the justice system is horribly fucked up. Yeah, you’re right about that, but there’s a time and place.
Perhaps, and this is only a suggestion, you might have been more subtle (read: diplomatic) about bringing up your favourite topic? You might have started with punishments (I know, problematic word) for the handing out of hateful leaflets that you, as a queer person, would find acceptable? Honestly, I don’t think people should be imprisoned for being hateful bigots either (for many of the same reasons and none of the same reasons as you), but the first thing that comes to my mind when I read about a gay teen suicide isn’t how fucked up the prison system is and how it’s not helping. That comes up later, or behind, quietly and simultaneously the other big thought that first comes to mind. Do you know what that thought is Walton? Tell me, and I’m not being patronising, because I know you’re not a callous asshole, just an obsessive type.
consciousness razorsays
that’s why art SKILL should not be a prerequisite for art ENJOYMENT. But lots of people don’t or can’t enjoy making art because they’re so concerned about lacking skill in the first place. It ought to be the other way around.
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether skills should be a prerequisite, but that they are necessary. It doesn’t often require much skill to enjoy something, but one always needs some abilities (to comprehend it, see or hear it a certain way, etc.) in order to enjoy it. It’s just a difference of degree and more noticeable when many people lack what’s needed to like “difficult” artworks, but people tend to take what skills they do have for granted.
———
And I’d venture to suggest that a prison sentence for handing out leaflets, even highly offensive and threatening leaflets, is absurd.
After reading the gay suicide story again: Fuck off Walton.
If you’re implying that I don’t care about gay kids who commit suicide, then fuck you too.
Since this has been one of your pet topics for a long time, it seems like you would’ve realized by now that it’s going to piss people off if you don’t address the whole problem.
What should be done instead? Education. Changing the culture. Protesting against homophobia, racism, sexism, transphobia and anti-immigrant bigotry. Speaking out against it. We all do this. We all know how to do this. We all know that it has an effect.
That’s all good and necessary, but it isn’t sufficient. Sometimes we need to be able to force people to stop harmful and threatening behavior. I don’t like long prison sentence either or the way the prison system is run (in the U.S. and probably many other countries), but you have to come up with something better if you want to even pretend to have a good solution.
Sometimes we need to be able to force people to stop harmful and threatening behavior. I don’t like long prison sentence either or the way the prison system is run (in the U.S. and probably many other countries), but you have to come up with something better if you want to even pretend to have a good solution.
is not without merit. However, it seems that hate-speech laws could also be used to censor ideas that none of us find hateful–a practical consideration as well. I predict that Christians (the vast majority where I live), may view attacks on their ideas or behaviors as hateful, and may seek to use those laws to persecute…us I guess.
Is there some wording of these laws that prevents such a thing from happening? What in particular would enforce the spirit of these laws so they weren’t used maliciously to persecute those voicing minority ideas?
chigau (違う)says
hmmm
that dotted underline in abbr and acronym didn’t show in preview.
Walton, the case in question is a straight-up one of incitement to violence. If you want to discuss imprisoning fewer people, I’m fine with changing the drug laws, considering home arrest for things like shoplifting, etc. Not for letting people who try to exhort other people, either individually or with the power of the state, to kill groups of despised individuals.
I agree with HappiestSadist: You looking at things from a very academic level. Awesome, you’ve studied criminology. You’re using that knowledge to override the lived experiences of people here. You may not have straight privilege, but you’ve got a shit-ton of class privilege that can protect you from at least some homophobic violence.
“State repression”? Give me a fucking break. I am more than happy to have the state “repress” people who want to kill some of the folks I love. Education and culture change aren’t going fix everything, and certainly not overnight.
Your “open borders” rants tick me off similarly. You’re wealthy and highly educated, and able to move back and forth between the U.S. and the U.K. easily. Lots of us here have struggled to find work in the last five years. How the fuck do you think it sounds when you, from your lofty perch at fucking Harvard, lecture us on how we should consider all the other people in the world who don’t have jobs and can’t easily move to another part of the world — and, more to the point, don’t want to and shouldn’t have to?
Get your head out of your goddamned privileged arse and listen to people who will have to live with the effects of what you’re suggesting for a change.
I was really, incredibly, personally hurt by what Ing and others said.
Cry me a river. How about you consider the effect of your words on other people?
And, Chas, shut the fuck up. Limiting speech to protect people from being beaten, raped, or killed isn’t the same as limiting speech that displeases privileged assholes like you or Santorum.
Crap. Typing While Angry. Part of my previous comment should read: “How the fuck do you think it sounds when you, from your lofty perch at fucking Harvard, lecture us on how we should consider all the other people in the world who don’t have jobs when we can’t easily move to another part of the world — and, more to the point, don’t want to and shouldn’t have to?”
Caine, what I meant was that the marks were about as far apart as the legs on a staple. They looked like this, but thicker:
– –
If that’s a rat, it has serious tooth problems. A rat’s front teeth are long, but taper to very narrow and are tightly together. Then again, if it was a rat using its cheek flap, the gap is plausible. If you scroll down here, you’ll see a couple of photos of rat incisors.
Also, it did bound like a chipmunk or squirrel, do rats bound?
It’s not their preferred method of locomotion, but yes, they are capable of bounding, especially if they are in fear or stealing something.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Limiting speech to protect people from being beaten, raped, or killed isn’t the same as limiting speech that displeases privileged assholes like you or Santorum.
How do you formulate a law that ensures this? Incitement to violence cannot be the only criterion for defining hate speech. How do you legally protect groups that are most likely to suffer from this kind of bullshit without creating an umbrella under which just anyone can stand?
The Chicago Tribune starts off an article about Jerry Sandusky with this:
The most heart-breaking moments of the last five months for Jerry Sandusky have been telling his grandchildren he can’t talk to them on their birthdays.
And all I can think is, “Who gives a fuckwhat breaks Sandusky’s heart? What about the fucking lives that he’s broken?”
Also, The Sailor, take what I’m saying with a healthy dose of salt, as there can be a healthy size differential when it comes to wild rats vs domesticated rats. Some of the wild ones can reach pretty large size.
consciousness razorsays
Is there some wording of these laws that prevents such a thing from happening?
That’s probably unavoidable to some extent. Words only work insofar as people share a common understanding of them. That’s why we also need to change opinions in society, including our own, so they will comport with reality (what actually is harmful and preventable).
What in particular would enforce the spirit of these laws so they weren’t used maliciously to persecute those voicing minority ideas?
That’s a tough question. I’m obviously not an ethicist or a legal scholar, so my answers probably aren’t very helpful. I’m concerned with threatening behavior rather than merely expressing hatred, so if we can limit such laws to that sort of thing, it’s hard to see how they could be used as a legitimate kind of “persecution.” So, for example, if some person in a minority is threatening a bigot in the majority, there’s no question that one ought to side with the person being threatened, even if one isn’t like them or doesn’t agree with their bigotry.
The most heart-breaking moments of the last five months for Jerry Sandusky have been telling his grandchildren he can’t talk to them on their birthdays.
Antiochus: I am not a lawyer or other specialist in this area, but from what some residents of Canada and various European countries have told me, their hate-speech laws work fairly well, if not perfectly. The U.S. is quite an outlier when it comes to freedom of speech, for good and for bad.
Theophontes: I’m glad you’re okay. And, yeah, some scars on your shoulder are a lot better to have than cancer.
Nigel: Awww, Jewwy can’t talk to his gwandkids? Boo hoo fucking hoo. But that sob story will garner the Tribune and its advertisers a lot of page hits, which I’m sure was at least one motivation for running it.
ChasCPetersonsays
Limiting speech to protect people from being beaten, raped, or killed isn’t the same as limiting speech that displeases privileged assholes
I see.
And how many people were beaten, raped, or killed because these 3 zealots put Koran-quoting leaflets in some mailboxes in Derbyshire?
Or is merely the perceived possibility of inciting violence (or, as the argument was being phrased earlier, suicide) sufficient to criminalize speech? Who is in charge of possibility-perception? You? The Supreme Court?
Are all groups to be similarly protected against hate-speech, or only those perceived as less privileged? And who makes those judgments? You? The proud citizens of Oklahoma? The next Republican President?
You don’t seem to really grok this whole freedom of speech thing very well.
carliesays
Some of the wild ones can reach pretty large size.
ROUSes? I don’t believe they exist.
*thump*
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine, what I meant was that the marks were about as far apart as the legs on a staple. They looked like this, but thicker:
– –
If that’s a rat, it has serious tooth problems. A rat’s front teeth are long, but taper to very narrow and are tightly together. Then again, if it was a rat using its cheek flap, the gap is plausible. If you scroll down here, you’ll see a couple of photos of rat incisors.
Caine, I know you’re the resident rat expert and not me…. but have you tried rotating the rat you’re picturing in your head 180 degrees? Think ‘top and bottom’, not ‘left and right’?
sisusays
I have studied criminology in my academic life
by this, do you mean you took Crim Pro?
Thomathy, now angrier and feministersays
It amuses me to no end when people from disparate places go on about freedom of speech. It effectively does not exist anywhere except in the United States, and I would argue that even so enshrined in its constitution as it is, that country is one of the worst offenders in obstructing it.
Most of the rest of the world deals with freedom(s) of expression and hate speech, at least in Canada, is rather clearly spelled out and does not limit any reasonable definition of so-called ‘free speech’.
Arguments against hate speech laws should at least reference the reality of hate speech laws and not bogus myths and not-evidenced slippery slopes.
(And I’ll note, in case they’re brought up, that the HRC (Human Rights Commission) and the various HRTs (Human Rights Tribunals) are essentially fucked up institutions that are entirely separate issues from hate speech as spelled out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.)
TLC, yeah, I did. It could be a rat, it could just as easily be a squirrel or chipmonk. Hard to say with so little to go on.
Generally, rat bite marks are on small side unless they are really bearing down or using their cheek flap, which causes the lower incisors to separate. *looks at rat bite scar on arm* Okay, that could be a rat bite, except for the separation in The Sailor’s description. That would be caused by the cheek flap being used, which acts as a barrier to swallowing whatever is being chewed. Might be helpful to know what was bit or chewed.
When a rat bites through something, top and bottom, the bites look circular.
Thomathy, now angrier and feministersays
Okay, small correction, I don’t mean ‘entirely separate’, but entirely separate in the terms of a conversation about speech rights. Those institutions adjudicate on hate speech (and human right’s issues generally) in Canada, but they are seriously fucked up to the point of, in my opinion, abusing the laws and legislation that they enforce to the detriment of society at large. That is, they shouldn’t be used (those institutions) to argue against hate speech in Canada because it is really quite clearly spelled out and those institutions abuse the writ and spirit of the law.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I know one thing Caine, rodent top incisors only leave side by side marks with a gap in between like that in old Chip n Dale cartoons.
Beyond that I cannot say.
Moggiesays
SQB:
Did anybody catch Die Antwoord on Letterman? Awesome!
Good grief, how scary was Yo-Landi in that?! I didn’t realise they had another album out: downloading now.
Yeah, I think I’m pretty useless on this front. The best I can say is get a better look at it – if it has a furry tail, it ain’t a rat. :D
Although, a rat can have weird dentition, it happens. Arlo had misaligned top and bottom incisors, so he couldn’t grind them down properly. Had to take him in to the vet every couple of months to have his teeth trimmed.
KGsays
I see.
And how many people were beaten, raped, or killed because these 3 zealots put Koran-quoting leaflets in some mailboxes in Derbyshire? – ChasCPeterson
What a stupid excuse for an argument. There was evidence at the trial of gay people who received the leaflets through their doors, thought they were being targeted – they didn’t know every house in the area got one – and were terrified. Why the fuck should people have to put up with being terrorised by bigots in the name of free speech? And why don’t the “slippery slope” crowd ever produce any actual evidence of a slippery slope existing? Oh yeah, because there isn’t any.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilaritysays
dontpanic,
Most of the problems with giving Ritalin and related psychostimulants are the things that you’ve noticed in the Spawn. Of course, there are some studies that suggest that it can be useful in managing the hyperactivity and flightiness that frequently manifests in people with ASD, but it can also be very bad. A lot of the problem is that (1) ASD is not a simple disease with a single set of symptoms, but a big floppy spectrum, and (2) ASD can, and does, co-manifest with other conditions such as ADD/ADHD.
So treating a kid on the spectrum with Ritalin is problematic. It can work if the kid has ADD/ADHD as a comorbidity or if they have ADD/ADHD-like symptoms. However, if they don’t have ADD/ADHD or similar, the drug can have devastating effects.
An important thing to keep in mind is the why of a particular symptom. Is Spawn antsy and not paying attention in school due to hyperactivity or because Spawn is bored because the lesson is too easy? Is Spawn melting down in public due to an inability to grasp that melting down in not appropriate, because Spawn in overtired, or because Spawn has been overstimulated (remember that many people on the spectrum have data-processing limitations that make overstimulation very easy)? Answering the why is the key to dealing with it. Try to answer the why, and seek therapies (up to and including medication) that fit.
waltonsays
Well, fine. Apparently I’m not fucking welcome in this “community”, and apparently I’m going to be yelled at by Ms. Born-An-American-Citizen-And-Proud-Of-It Daisy Cutter for standing up for the rights of immigrants who are detained, tortured and made to suffer by racist immigration laws. Do you think I don’t fucking know that I’m privileged? That’s why I work on behalf of people who are not.
Fuck this. I’ve had enough. I don’t know what’s expected of me, but apparently I will never be good enough.
Walton, you’re hijacking a gay teen’s suicide as an excuse to talk about how awful prisons are and how the justice system is horribly fucked up.
What? No I wasn’t. I was talking about this news story, which had nothing to do with a gay teen’s suicide. I didn’t know anything about a suicide until Ing brought it up in reply to me. I may be guilty of bad timing, but it wasn’t intentional.
KGsays
However, it seems that hate-speech laws could also be used to censor ideas that none of us find hateful–a practical consideration as well. I predict that Christians (the vast majority where I live), may view attacks on their ideas or behaviors as hateful, and may seek to use those laws to persecute…us I guess. – Antiochus Epiphanes
If laws are carefully drafted, as all laws should be, this should not be possible. Can you (or Walton) cite any cases brought under the relevant Acts which suggest this is a real danger?
Walton, you got yelled at, it’s hardly the end of the fucking world. Get off the net for a while, go breathe, have some fun, enjoy life for a bit.
By the way, not everyone yelled at you. Some of us even showed considerable restraint.
KGsays
Walton,
Do you think I don’t fucking know that I’m privileged? That’s why I work on behalf of people who are not.
You know very well this doesn’t, and shouldn’t, give you a free pass on what you say.
Fuck this. I’ve had enough. I don’t know what’s expected of me, but apparently I will never be good enough.
Cut the melodrama. Most of us value your contributions, and respect the way you’ve been willing to change. Again, that doesn’t exempt you from criticism.
Happiestsadistsays
Walton, there’s something seriously fucking wrong with you. Yes. There is. Stop fucking sniveling when it’s pointed out that you’re spewing seriously privileged bullshit, and that you’re naive as hell to boot. Go cry with your Rich White Kid’s Burden in Hahvahd.
Caine, TLC, I’ll try to take a pic of the cigarette pack tonight and upload it somewhere you can see it. What surprised about the bite marks was there weren’t top and bottom, it’s like someone punched a staple thru it.
No offense Caine, but I’m hoping it’s a squirrel;-)
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
not that there was an option for pink Legos, but that pink Legos were being marketed explicitly to girls, thus implying that the non-pink Legos were “for boys”.
How timely. My little kid is turning 8 next month and she wanted Lego. Naturally those insulting “Lego Friends” pieces of crap were right out, but she wanted Lego with “mermaids, or princesses” — in short, she wants to play with heroic, fantastic female characters.
There is exactly ONE available set with ONE princess and ONE available set with mermaids. The only themed sets with female characters are large expensive ones. The only basic sets with female figures are the “pink box” sets you describe, which have the pink and purple blocks and build a twee wittle house with a twee wittle garden for the female minifig to inhabit.
Stop fucking sniveling when it’s pointed out that you’re spewing seriously privileged bullshit, and that you’re naive as hell to boot.
This.
And, furthermore, Walton, stop assuming that people who disagree with you must be über-privileged racist whatever-ist assholes because they’re not as disprivileged as the people you defend. Reminds me of nothing so much as Ivy League kids who sneer at the kids who go into the military in order to have any opportunities whatsoever as “baby killers.” Must be nice…
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
No offense Caine, but I’m hoping it’s a squirrel;-)
We had a squirrel in the basement once that got in through the chimney. It caused a huge mess, knocked over a bunch of glass bottles, and wouldn’t leave even when the door was open.
I’d take a rat family any day. They at least know how to live inside houses.
Okay. Walton, I don’t know if you’ll read this, but I’ll give it a shot anyway.
As I’m sure you’ve noticed, there seems to be a lot of communication breakdowns when it comes to certain issues you feel passionately about.
One problem is that well-balanced view business. It would be so helpful if you strove to achieve that more often.
Another problem is one that will be remedied eventually, and that is not having a lot of life experience in various areas. This tends to keep you very tightly in a sphere of ideals and academics, whereas a lot of the people you’re talking to are living waaaaaaaaay down on the ground. I think this is where a lot of communication breakdown takes place.
One thing I think that really interferes with that well-balanced view business is that guilt complex you carry around like a teddy bear. There are times when I think you fight so hard for criminals and assorted nasty assholes is because you think that might have been you at one point. Yes, okay, you were a nasty snot when you were in your teens. That’s over, you’ve grown, you’ve changed. I imagine that’s how you want to see everyone else, too, that everyone else is capable of that. Sometimes that’s true, Walton, but for every case like that, there’s one where that’s not true and it won’t ever be true.
I don’t think anyone dislikes you or disrespects you because you have ideals and you’re passionate about them. The world needs people like you, without question. What it comes down to at this point is tempering. You aren’t there yet, you haven’t been down in the dirt, let alone down in the dirt for ages on end.
Your heart and mind are in the right places, but at this point, they are also at a remove from many people’s life experiences.
Now, get the fuck off the net for a while, talk to friends, have something decadent to eat, just go fuck around for a while.
Hey, I’ve been away. I came by originally to rant about Obama giving way to the RCC, but then realised that there was no reason to rant, and couldn’t help noticing the ongoing discussion. So before I go away again, I’d like to chime in:
When I first came across the Derbyshire case, my reaction was WTF, don’t they have probation in the UK? In Germany, the Volksverhetzung law has more lenient sentences for distribution of printed material, with three years max, while incitement to hatred in general is five years max. The 1986 Public Order Act has a max sentence of seven years, if I read it correctly. So probably the same case would have ended with milder sentences in Germany, possibly with probation. A death threat, after all, is more serious that denigration of a person based on their race (“all XX are lazy pigs that should go home ASAP”).
Horst Mahler, a lawyer and ex-RAF member (the German RAF), later became a Neo-Nazi and was first convicted for inciting hatred against Jews and foreigners. The death threats against judges, prosecutors and members of parliament ensured that he got a prison sentence of nine months (having been an ex-terroist, it wasn’t his first conviction either). Later he gave the Hitler salute in prison, after getting out he was interviewed by a prominent German-Jewish journalist for Vanity Fair, whom he greeted with “Heil Hitler”, and then also denied to Holocaust, in the interview, for attribution. All these incidents earned him prison sentences of 12 years total.
To those wondering how to establish protected classes: these things are governed by human rights standards. EU member nations have joined various human rights treaties which also obligate them to protect minorities and fight against discrimination. This works quite well, with ONE EXCEPTION:
There is a potential problem for atheists here with respect to blasphemy laws. While many blasphemy laws have been weakened greatly, some of it can still be prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws. Or in the case of Germany, blasphemy is only liable if it done in such a way as to “disturb public order” (max penalty three years, so less than “incitement of hatred”). A woman was convicted who had distributed pamphlets saying that “the Christian churches are among the biggest criminal gangs in the world” as well “rather a maculate contraception than an immaculate conception” and “masochism can be cured” with a symbol of a crossed out cross.
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
WTF? Walton isn’t telling you to move, he’s merely saying that preventing others from moving here (wherever here is) by means of a racist border regime is wrong. FWIW, he’s stated several times that he’s not from an affluent background.
KGsays
I should try to keep up with TET! I posted links to the three cases Teh kiloGraeme@609 posted on the “double standard” thread as vaguely relevant, before coming here.
No offense Caine, but I’m hoping it’s a squirrel;-)
None taken. I’ve been taking care of the Wrongway clan* on our property for years. They stay outside though. :D
*The family of fox squirrels on our property, named after the first one to show up, who eventually mated and sired the rest. Clumsiest damn thing you ever saw. Falls out of trees and off the roof on a regular basis.
Predator Handshakesays
One of my cats is particularly sneaky about slipping outside when I’m letting my dog out in the morning. She never wants to come back in before I go off to work, so I have to leave the garage door cracked. A few months ago she developed a habit of bringing in a nice chipmunk to play with, but she seemed to get bored of them awfully quickly.
Those things are really good at hiding under furniture. I never noticed that there was a chipmunk in the house until a couple of days later, when my dog was suddenly very interested in an appliance or cabinet that she usually doesn’t care about. My method for catching the little guys involved an empty bucket, some bits of granola, and a yardstick; I went two for three on successful catch-and-releases.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Another problem is one that will be remedied eventually, and that is not having a lot of life experience in various areas. This tends to keep you very tightly in a sphere of ideals and academics, whereas a lot of the people you’re talking to are living waaaaaaaaay down on the ground. I think this is where a lot of communication breakdown takes place.
This, Walton. I’d personally expand on it a little and say if you truly want to help things, this is an indispensable tool. You need to really get in amongst the people you want to help and advocate for. Really get in there.
I’ve smoked weed with the homeless and mentally ill, with the outcast and overlooked of society. With gay people, with black people, with about a thousand and one native people, and with huge terrifying potentially violent people (as in, very violent natured people with reputations a mile long, not just scary looking), and I’ve listened to them talk because I’m often too shy (or a little terrified) to interject too much. I’m not claiming any kind of expertise or enlightened state here, just that you learn things firsthand from them.
It’s a terrifying business, but I honestly believe that for what you want to do with yourself, you need to do more of this.
I also wish you wouldn’t take it so personally and get so upset. Most of us like you Walton. We don’t want you to fuck off.
But like others have said, take a breather and think on these things.
Dhorvath, OMsays
Hey all,
I had work this week. My first gainful employment in four years. It was odd. How do people focus when passive aggression is the tenor of their environment?
Anyways, it reminded me of how divorced I have become from most people’s lives, I am reflecting and hoping I haven’t done to poorly by anyone.
KGsays
I wouldn’t put too much thought into that. There have been times when I would get in my car to go to work and the next thing I knew I was in the lab setting up experiments. I knew the way to the college so well that getting there was no challenge. I can’t imagine now how many times I must have driven that route. – DLC
I wrote a lot of my D.Phil thesis on that phenomenon. At that time, all the work on human wayfinding seemed to assume people always planned their journeys. I ended up arguing this mostly happened when they knew an intermediate amount about the route: if you know almost nothing, there are still search strategies you can use to reach your goal – like in grid cities, going east-west as far as you can, or until it’s somehow obvious you’ve gone too far, then one block north, then west-east and so on, and as a route becomes familiar, you can mostly “outsource” remembering it to the environment itself – and it becomes a classic behaviorist stimulus-response chain. This can lead to the sort of automatic route-following you mention, or to a poor route getting “frozen” into place because you never question whether there might be a better one (e.g. if you learn routes A-B and B-C, you may automatically go from A to C via B). I think it was an advantage that I’m bad at finding my way around, so I could introspect a lot on how I did it.
also, some good news: ACTA seems to be stalled now. German Foreign Office retracts directive to sign it after the Minister of Justice (one of the few liberal politicians in Germany with guts) signalled her reservations over the agreement.
I think this is also an effect of the SOPA debate spilling over to Europe. A great example of international activism.
(Of course that doesn’t mean it’s dead yet, Germany and the 3-4 other EU members might sign it still. But the European Parliament is poised to vote on it by June 2012, there is still time for trying to build up opposition there)
Happiestsadistsays
Jesus, that’s scary shit, Brownian. Congrats, dude, you’re a bullying asshole who destroys your daughter’s property. Can’t imagine why she’d try to hide any thoughts she has from him. Oh no, using curse words, totally a great reason to show off what an abusive ass one can be. The charging her for bullets is an especially bullshit touch.
diannesays
@717: All I can say is I hope this man’s daughter remembers this action when she is deciding which nursing home to place him in. Given that he’s a smoker, she should be making that decision soon.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Brownian: I saw that, or at least as much of it as I can stand. Is it any wonder his daughter hates his stupid ass?
If there’s any justice at all she’ll move out at 18 or earlier and the only time he sees her again is when she takes him to the cheapest old folk’s home she can find.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
+1 Dianne
Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottlesays
Hello, kittens!
Still in job search mode and exhausted because it’s been a week of intereviewsinterviewsinterviews.
I’m a little brokenheated at the moment because I was up for a completely awesome job with an awesome tech company, and even though I totally got it, I ended up having to pass because the pay was C-R-A-P and my car dropped dead, leaving me no way to get there..
I’m cursed, I tell you, CURSED!!!!
So, how is everyone else? Been playing nice while I was away? *wink wink*
Check this father-of-the-year out, and all the fucking douchnozzles clapping away.
How adorable. Asswipe.
I only ranted about my mother once. I did it in secret, when I was 10. I wrote one sentence in my diary: I hate my mother. That was after she made me sit at the dinner table all night because I wouldn’t eat kidney beans and then I had to go to school in the morning.
I came home from school to find A in my bedroom, with my diary open to a certain page. She committed me. Again. 3 months that time.
It certainly learned me. It learned me to have no relationship with her at all.
Thomathy, now angrier and feministersays
Brownian,
Umm …wow. So, that’s what guns are for? He sure showed her! I’m afraid of her father too, for her even, if she doesn’t fear him already.
… The Office of Congressional Ethics, an independent investigative agency, opened its probe late last year after focusing on numerous suspicious trades on Bachus’s annual financial disclosure forms, the individuals said. OCE investigators have notified Bachus that he is under investigation and that they have found probable cause to believe insider-trading violations have occurred.
Thomathy, now angrier and feministersays
Walton, for what it’s worth, sorry. I was following it as a linear conversation and thought Ing’s comment was related. Also, for what its worth, enjoy your weekend.
Browniansays
All I can say is I hope this man’s daughter remembers this action when she is deciding which nursing home to place him in.
I skipped out on my father’s funeral for much the same reason. How did it feel to die alone, asshole? Like justice?
Ahem. Anyway, this is what I wrote to the mob of cheering morons. I don’t know if it’ll get published:
“Oh, spare us the sanctimonious speeches about how rotten kids are today while you walked six miles to school uphill both ways in a blizzard.
We remember those speeches verbatim because we heard them from the previous generation complaining about you.
You’re content to clap over this unhinged idiot, but not one of you would dare do the same thing to your kids because underneath your guttural braying you know this is completely disproportionate to a teenager complaining about chores (and if you claim you never did so, you’re either still dealing with the psychological impacts of your overly abusive parents or you’re a shame-faced liar.)
I hope this mob is still laughing and jeering when this girl takes daddy’s message that anger is best dealt with by bullets not words and comes back to pull a Menendez on this trigger-happy tyrant.”
Browniansays
It certainly learned me. It learned me to have no relationship with her at all.
Yup. I certainly learned a lot from my abusive father. For one, I learned that while he excelled at dishing them out, the fucker couldn’t take a punch worth shit. (To be fair, he wasn’t expecting one as he was trying to choke me at the time. But what did he think I was spending all that time at the gong fu club learning to do?)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
If laws are carefully drafted, as all laws should be, this should not be possible. Can you (or Walton) cite any cases brought under the relevant Acts which suggest this is a real danger?
I don’t know very much about the law (and nothing about European law), and have difficulty comprehending the language that laws are often written in, which is why I asked these questions:
How do you formulate a law that ensures this? Incitement to violence cannot be the only criterion for defining hate speech. How do you legally protect groups that are most likely to suffer from this kind of bullshit without creating an umbrella under which just anyone can stand?
Of course, no one is responsible for enlightening me, but I think these are questions that other people may have. Thx pelamun, even if your explanation was not directed at me.
Walton, there’s something seriously fucking wrong with you. Yes. There is. Stop fucking sniveling when it’s pointed out that you’re spewing seriously privileged bullshit, and that you’re naive as hell to boot. Go cry with your Rich White Kid’s Burden in Hahvahd.
Walton, there is not a fucking thing wrong with you. No. There isn’t. Please continue to make reasoned arguments to the best of your ability* regardless of ignorant bullshit thrown your way by people who don’t seem to be contributing all that much anyway. Go enjoy a diet soda, and come back whenever you’re ready.
*Which is fucking ample.
kristinc, ~delicate snowflake~says
Holy shit, that father is a bullying waste of fucking skin. I hope my comment gets approved, but I made sure to address any teens or children currently living with someone like him and point out it was NOT OKAY to be treated like that and they should NOT feel bad about being enraged about it and loathing anyone who treats them that way.
It takes a very special kind of shitsmear loser to get so much satisfaction out of picking on someone who is factually and legally vulnerable to them.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
So, how is everyone else? Been playing nice while I was away? *wink wink*
My titanium fang isn’t itching, if that is what you mean. ;)
Wish I wasn’t so late for the freedom of speech vs individual safety debate. Could have been fun.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
My titanium fang isn’t itching, if that is what you mean. ;)
Mine are carbon steel.
I try to oil them regularly, but keeping up with the rust is an unholy pain in the ass.
Jerry Alexandratossays
While I am torn between advocating free speech and protecting people from hate speech, I do have one comment. I both disagree and agree somewhat with Walton. My agreement is on the grounds that sending some bigoted people to prison could be _counterproductive_. (Hear me out before someone reflexively screams that I am in any way defending hate speech or condoning gay teen suicide.) If prisons in the U.K. are anything like those in the U.S., then this would be like sending the bigots to advanced classes in hatred and violence. The worst prisons are breeding grounds for racist criminal gangs that teach their members to hate harder, fight more dangerously, and make criminal connections after they leave. Instead of a safer society, making hate speech an automatically incarcerable offense takes us a temporary step towards the appearance of safety and in reality may create harder criminals, making for a more dangerous society in the end. Is this scenario correct? I’m not sure; it’s plausible to me. I do not have a recipe for fixing this potential problem, unfortunately, but I think for a first offense, probation with mandatory community service might help instead of harden minds.
That had to be good to know, or at least to find out. I never hit anyone, but I did think about committing homicide quite a bit when I was young.
I do remember the day I graduated HS, I was 17, went home (I was living with my grandparents then – that included the joy of living with the person who had raped me for years), walked into my room and started carrying out suitcases. There was all the supposed shock and all that shit and of course, the panicked call to A. She managed to show up as I was tossing my stuff into a car. I spun around and said “Don’t say one fucking word to me. I had no choice with you. You have damaged me beyond repair and if I could have come up with the perfect murder, you’d be dead. Goodbye.” Got in the car and left. Never looked back.
SlutWalk is tomorrow! But it’s going to be cold D:
dontpanicsays
kristinc,
Check out the Lego online store. You can buy lots of individual parts, including (sometimes, it seems to vary) mini-figs (i.e. “people”) and their components. Over the years from various sets we’ve acquire a whole army of people including girls/women from various sets. So they do exist out of the newly pink-ified sets. My son showed an interest in some of the parts included in the pink sets, and I don’t even think the pinkness weirded him out too much. But the odd scaled figures (not the standard size, too doll-like) completely put him off, lego-purist that he is (“Dad, that’s a MegaBlock, yuck! Take it out.”).
Dhorvath, OMsays
Starstuff,
So dress warmly. It’s not like a winter coat will keep asshats from slutshaming.
Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trollssays
I try to oil them regularly, but keeping up with the rust is an unholy pain in the ass.
it’s not like incitement to hatred is bound to lead to prison sentences. There is a sentencing range, and especially with first time offenders, probation and fines are normal (in Germany).
I was at first bewildered by the relatively stiff prison sentences, and it seems that the UK has a more severe sentencing regime, but do not forget, what they were distributing were death threats after all. Had they written things like “Gay people are an abomination in the eye of the lord” or whatever, but stopped short at issuing death threats, they might still have been liable for incitement to hatred, but probably would have not gone to jail.
(In Germany things are muddier. Discrimination based on sexual grounds has been barred in the 1999 EU Treaty, and Germany has enacted laws reflecting that. However, there are differing opinions whether LGBT people constitute a “specific segment of the populace” in terms of the incitement to racial hatred law, with some conservatives openly demanding their right for “negative freedom of speech”. However, as various international organisations have been making steps towards recognising LGBT people as a protected class, legal opinion in Germany could soon change. – or the German parliament could amend the law accordingly, as Westminster has done)
Kristinc, ooh, I love Orioles! We get them here in the Spring. They’re fond of oranges. I cut them in half and impale them on a nail in the deck railing.
I got the reference. The Tick was awesome.
SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!
Ing: I think I remember that.
Nah, I like feralboy. If people were put off by it, I doubt you would have racked up so many Molly noms. ;)
He drove the car for the Civic Minded 5.
So, who wants to be the Sewer Urchin?
About 24 hours ago I was sitting in a room that also contained about $215,000 (canadian).
I touched (sorted) about 1/3 of it.
(I’m too drunk to make sensible comments but I offer chocolatehugs and faceslaps to all who merit. sort yourselves out.)
And American Maid.
Damn. Now I’m getting all nostalgic for the 90’s.
feralboy’s gravatar creeps me out.
but then so does my “new” gravatar.
I seem to have no control over … stuff …
I wanna be The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight!
Bah! Warm fuzzy nice nice! What good is science if no one gets hurt?
The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does wear the ‘Hello My Name is’ badge! He strikes from below, like a viper! Or on high like a penny dropped from the tallest building around! He has only the one purpose! Do bad things to good people… WITH SCIENCE!
You know, I’ve heard that before. Maybe I should use a different Ken doll?
Good morning
TLC
Saying “please and thank you” isn’t a problem for mine. Sitting still for 10 min is (especially since restaurants are interesting places to discover)
Do you people remember the times when you had a real film inside of your camera?
It was back in those days ;)
Esteleth
Fucking MDs, how do they work. But, btw, not all people are “typical” when it comes to thyroid problems. One of my sister’s biggest problems is that she’s an atypical patient. Her thyroid has an underperformance (?), which usually results in overweight bit of lazy people. Well, she was a thin as a stick “hyperactive” person before. When she started to take meds she crashed so much in weight that it became dangerous.
But fat-shaming really is a problem. One of our neighbours had problems after a knee surgery. Instead of looking, several docs just told her that she needs to lose weight. When she finally got one to look at it, not only did she now need the top surgeon avaible, they were also not sure it they could save the leg or if they had to amputate at the knee…
(Fortunately they could save it)
Hi Illuminata
I remember you had job-problems, have things worked out for you?
Earring Magic Ken!
Thanks to Caine and walton for the informative posts on the legality of photographing private persons in public. I knew that here in Canada suing for unauthorized publication of one’s image had been done before.
And in my personal experience with unwelcome recording, vague threats of litigation can work to deter camera toting creeps. For me, it remains a kind of situation that felt invasive and unsettling.
Saying that just being out in public is consenting to one’s image being used in every possible way is like pretending that photo or videography is just gathering freely available light, in a social vacuum.
Giliell:
I still have and use a film camera. A lot of photographers do.
NuMad:
Pretty much. I would never trust someone like Benjamin around me with any type of gear, whether a camphone or a whole set up.
feralboy12
I don’t really mind your gravatar.
I just find Ken creepy.
We’re Filth
We’re Filth
We come from Filth
We’re going to Filth
Caine
So do I, but it makes the idea of deleting the picture a tad unpractical. I would have had to rip out the rest of my pictures, too.
I must say I feel uncomfortable with asking after the fact. I think there are those small things in conditioning that make saying “no” after somebody has taken the picture harder than before. You know, now they already put the work into it and everything, you’re just being a spoilsport.
I wouldn’t feel comfortable with it.
janine
FIFY
If you do it with a needle, you can relieve so much frustration with that, it’s amazing ;)
SallyStrange:
I could not help but note the use of the familiar diminutive, there.
(I consider I am able to make my own determinations about Benjamin and to choose whether (and if so, how) I respond to comments by him)
TLC talking about Benjamin:
1. You’re not really making it very safe for Benjamin, are you?
2. They can make their own determinations based on the evidence.
3. Who is forcing what, now?
—
Bah.
okay, I waded through a chunk of the TAA thread.
—
-Jafafa Hots
—
-Ms. Daisy Cutter
—
…Finding those made the trip worthwhile. *hoards and beams*
Morales:
—
source
*/ Obama wants to destroy the church in the United States ! /*
*/ Obama is bringing back Mdme Defarge and the Guillotine! /*
wildass remarks courtesy pRick Santorum.
Funny thing is . . . I’d like Obama more if the first of those two was for real.
TLC
I know exactly what you’re talking about it.
If you know what I mean /Mr.Bean Meme
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg”
lol. Same with mine. Its just too much wrangling, and bribing to keep her in her seat.
Caine, Fleur du Mal
Yes. This. They shouldn’t be sugar coated because it just makes it easier to shrug it off.
Now I haven’t read or watched the Watchmen, I haven’t read comics in so long. So this isn’t specifically against them. I just get very wary of comic using rape, especially in the female superheros to make them “edgier”. And then they draw out the scenes is just extremely creepy for me. There’s an article talking about it and listing the instances out, like when they did it with Storm. I will continue looking for it.
Happiestsadist
I noticed this before the Jules incident(we need a better way to refer to this, it’s not Jules fault or anything) and have simarily avoided him. I’ve stayed away from this place even because of him.
When the whole thing happened, meeting you guys in some sort of event was a happy dream of mine once I had money and vacation time again. Once the incident came to light here and blew up, it freaked me the fuck out. My brain started working against me about all the ways this could go wrong. I cancelled plans and nobody understood why I was hiding in my house again. I couldn’t really explain why and even if I did, its just really weird and stupid anyways. So it was just one of my weird periods again. It lasted awhile. I’m still not as happy and psyched up to meet you guys as I was before. No offense. =(
———
Has anyone had issues with their kinks and rapes? Like when people close to you find out about them, they start asking stupid questions like “Do you like that because of your rape? or “Did you like it during your rape?”
———
Most comics use rape as a way of just degrading a female character (and female characters in comics are already bad off enough). Watchmen did it in a way that’s at the very least interesting from a story perspective.
Unfortunately, I can’t really offer more insight than that, even though I’ve read it. I don’t have much experience with how people handle rapes at all, and I’m a sheltered white kid.
Just_A_Lurker
-People who are dumb enough to ask such questions shouldn’t be let outside without their legal guardian.
— — — —
” Hey, America! Break out the Binoculars after Sunset and see Uranus tonight! ” http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2012/02/hey_america_break_out_the_bino.php
I think the instance of rape in Watchmen is there because Alan Moore wrote Watchmen.
Only insofar as my own traitor brain counts as a person close to me. I’m pretty sure I’ve avoided it only through luck, in fact, since I’ve disclosed to some people who turned out to be really shitty people.
—
John, making a request of the other posters here isn’t the same thing as telling you you aren’t equipped to make your own decision. I know you know that. I think I’m not alone in this: Ben has made me feel very uncomfortable here, and the fact that a person willing to say and do the things that he has said and done went completely unnoticed (by me) among the regulars here for a very long time makes me literally ill. I think a lot of us understand what it is like to watch a group of people embrace and accept someone who has behaved badly, has hurt other people, and has not admitted to any wrongdoing let alone stopped or apologized. It doesn’t exactly inspire trust in those people, and I doubt it makes anyone feel terribly safe. I rather assume that you can understand that too, if you think about it. So please don’t get your back up at SallyStrange for requesting that people not continue to do that, because it is a fucking upsetting thing for people to do.
And yeah, I’m okay with making this an unsafe space for misogynistic, manipulative assholes. Sorry.
Did anybody catch Die Antwoord on Letterman? Awesome! No shots of Letterman during the show, unfortunately. Would’ve loved to see his reaction, I wonder if he know what he was going to see (and hear) beforehand.
HOO-RA. /facepalm Call me cynical but I kinda wonder whether it really was a “naive mistake.” Recruiting standards have dropped precipitously in order to feed the meat grinder.
Also, I just learned tonight that Dickens had a character named Dick Swiveller. That’s kind of awesome. :D
Josh, #420: Off and on this past week, I’ve had “CHRISTIAN! SIDE! HUG!” stuck in my head. Alternating with “The Hand of the Almighty” by John R. Butler, more commonly recognized as “God Will Fuck You Up. Anyway, here’s a different earworm for you.
Tethys, #435, that reminds me that I have a version of “Walk Like an Egyptian” in German….
Theophones, #443: AAAAAAGGGGGHHH. Do you have any scars remaining?
Also, thanks for your explanation about Euripides.
Coincidentally, a dear friend of mine who had a leg destroyed in Afghanistan almost two years ago has just started walking on his new prosthetic. I and all his other friends are verklempt.
Caine, #486:
Not that misogynist women don’t exist (*cough* Abbie *cough*), but I’d bet $5 that “bitchpeas” is a guy.
Pteryxx, #522: That quote is from my friend Flewellyn, who also wrote “A Field Guide to the Pseudosopher.”
Morales, fuck off and go play intellectual parlor games with something other than people’s concerns for their safety. And, yes, I said “safety,” because PTSD triggers fuck people up, and because Benji has already stalked at least one person.
/back to bed now.
Daisy:
Oh, I assumed they were male. We have had the genuine deal here, though, such as needfulcarp, who I went at least 10 rounds with and ended up banned for being a highly annoying MRA.
HI there
Hmm, I’m wondering about something and would like input.
I had a session with my therapist and we did a dream-voyage. Nothing spectacular, I should imagine a flower and as “homwork” I was given the task to paint that flower.
Now, I suck at painting. If earth’s future depended on my ability to draw 10 recognizable animals, you’d better start packing. So on my way home I was contemplating if I could get away with doing it as applique embroidery and while my “verbalizing*” mind was doing that, the “acting” mind took a wrng turn on the road.
Actually it wasn’t so much a wrong turn but the way I took when I was still living with my parents.
Now I’m wondering, did my subconscience try to tell me something or was my brain just so occupied that it just took the better known because used more often road?
*I’m lacking a better word here, but, you know, the part of your brain that talks in your head while another part of your brain is doing other things like driving a car or washing the dishes.
re: Benjamin
Yes, I think it’s time for people to stop giving him a pass. I don’t know, I kind of hoped every time that he had learned something, that maybe he’d gotten it, but no, I don’t think so anymore.
He’s manipulative, he’s a bully, he doesn’t give shit about triggering people. He’s also a misogynist.
So, I’ll just stop interacting with him. I think we’ve confronted his bullshit often enough. That doesn’t mean I’ll give it a pass when he does it again, but I’ll not engage him.
John Morales
Good!
You know, he’s demonstrated time after time again that he gives a fuck about hurting other people in the process, he’s not willing to change his behaviour one yota on behalf of rape-victims or people struggeling with other serious issues, even if it doesn’t cost him anything.
Do you think we need to make the world a safe place for such people, or one for rape-victims?
Just_A_Lurker
We usually try to avoid “formal” restaurant occasions with them. There’s a Chinese restaurant with a playroom and a buffet if we want lunch while shopping in town.
In all other cases we get them a babysitter if we want to go for a fancy dinner. I don’t feel like spending a lot of money to ruin our evening and that of other people as well.
For them, food is just something they need, it’s nothing they enjoy and celebrate.
BTW, Giliell or Gil is OK, the part after that is the PS du jour
Ms. Daisy Cutter
You mean that one?
Die Ärzte were so much part of my childhood (I mean childhood, I have a sister who’s 6 years my senior).
Josh – Pachelbel rant
Also related – four chords
So how do you find the balance between being melodramatic and being a pollyanna? A friend has a very bad health problem, but has very good prognosis. When I worry I feel like I’m being all DRAMA, but when I try not to worry I feel head-in-the-sand optimistic.
BREAKING NEWS: Journalist has a sad when online alternative medicine poll is subjected to reality.
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/alternative-health-poll-exposes-malaise-20120210-1sg9v.html#poll
Carlie, give yourself a break here – serious health problems are scary and give rise to all kinds of thoughts, many of them on the drama side of the fence. Keep breathing and remind yourself every now and then to look at the big picture. Treat yourself well, realizing this is a stress on yourself too, and it will be easier to be there and be supportive for your friend.
All my best to your friend.
Giliell, the flower doesn’t have to accurate, you could do an impressionist flower or something along those lines.
Be honest about the problem and prognosis, but be cheerful and use as much humor as you can. Assist by doing some things they can’t. Find a way to laugh at the situation. So far it’s working in my case.
It’s called BBCodeExtra. Works just fine with FF 10.
fi
eh, there are similarities but the chord changes are not the same. You can look this shit up.
Chas:
Oh, thank you so much!
I’m productive! The Tallis race has now been put up on my non-nym blog.
Caine
I know (impressionist? you’re kidding, except when you mean that I would give the impression that I tried to draw an orchid ;)).
My question was more about why I took a wrong turn on the road. Is there something about it or was it just a mistake and I’m over-analyzing because of the circumstances?
I’m sure you know this habbit of doing little “feasability studies” for projects that mostly never come to life, I do that fairly often, especially when doing something like driving or cleaning
“First Neanderthal cave paintings discovered in Spain” http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21458-first-neanderthal-cave-paintings-discovered-in-spain.html
So would our friends at Stormwatch count them as “mud people” or “Aryans”? Considering that Africans are closer relatives in terms of genes shared…while the Neanderthals were the first nordic people to have art. It would be a fun way to make the White Power types explode their brains trying to figure it out.
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NB!
“FDA-approved drug (“bexarotene”) rapidly clears amyloid from the brain, reverses Alzheimer’s symptoms in mice” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-02-fda-approved-drug-rapidly-amyloid-brain.html
Bexarotene has been approved for the treatment of cancer by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration for more than a decade. These experiments explored whether the medication might also be used to help patients with Alzheimer’s disease, and the results were more than promising. Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bexarotene
— — — —- —
Anti-obesity drugs with a modified lifestyle helps weight loss — new study http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-02-anti-obesity-drugs-lifestyle-weight-loss.html
More drive-by postings, posted for weekend reading
Flexible paper robots http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-flexible-paper-robots.html
‘human-friendly’ soft origami robots safe for an environment with humans, unlike the big, strong industrial robots.
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Infectious disease epidemiology and zombies: Saving the world, one zombie outbreak at a time.
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2012/02/infectious_disease_epidemiolog.php
Tina Turner imitation, Josh? I knew I loved you.
Giliell, I think you’re over-analyzing. As to the flower, why not finger paint? Finger painting is fun. :D
birgerjohansson:
That’s very hopeful. But I need to know whether any of the mice were called Algernon.
@Caine:
Finger-painting is fun :D Same as making mud pies and building sand castles (or in my case, sand-piles) and jumping off the swings when you’re going really really high!!
So much kid stuff I haven’t done in so long :\
Everyone needs to hold their horses with regards to this one, a mouse brain isnt a human brain. The mechanism by which this works is interesting however, the clearance of beta-amyloid plaque happened by increasing expression of Apolipoprotein E (that’s what the bexarotene does). The more ApoE, the more and faster clearance, and not only that, but the rate of cognitive recovery was rather astonishing (72 hours).
Katherine Lorraine:
Aaaaw, you need some play time. I love finger painting, it’s great. Swings, I’m lucky with, there are swings a short walk from my backyard. I can be found on them regularly in good weather. :D
@Caine:
Eheh, I know I know. Kitty needs some play time. There’s supposedly a park nearby, but I’ve never been. I’m not too heavy so I probably wouldn’t break the swingset if there was one.
Caine
Thanks, that’s what I was driving at.
*rolls around idea of finger painting*
*pictures kid who flatly answers the question “do we splash liquids all over the floor? Are we allowed to do that?” with “Yes!” and finger paint*
I think I’ll only do that in summer when you can let them do it naked and can wash them afterwards with the garden hose .
Talking about kid fun and painting, I’ve noticed time after time again how many adults will take the first excuse they can get to pick up paper and crayons and paint.
Or build something with Lego.
Giliell : If you lived with your parents for a longer time (in the same place) than you lived elsewhere alone, it’s most likely that your brain just flipped on autopilot while you were otherwise occupied and routed you down the most familiar route.
I wouldn’t put too much thought into that. There have been times when I would get in my car to go to work and the next thing I knew I was in the lab setting up experiments. I knew the way to the college so well that getting there was no challenge. I can’t imagine now how many times I must have driven that route.
Giliell, I have a large collection of Crayola Crayons and other Crayola products. I have a number of vintage bits, including a full canister of red finger-paint powder dating from the early 1900s.
Thanks, Caine and Nerd. I think much of my problem is feeling impotent about it – I’m geographically removed, so there’s really not much of anything I can do. So even worrying about it makes me feel self-centered, because it’s not like that helps them any, it’s just about how I feel about the situation and not worrying makes me feel callous.
Caine
I believe it, you are an artist, you’re allowed to have them. I find it amazing how many adults really enjoy painting or building with Legos but somehow think they’re not allowed to.
OMG this world is crazy. I just upholstered the little one’s Viking helmet for carnival next week and they actually felt the need to write on the inside of it that it is indeed a toy and does not offer protection helmet-wise…
@Giliell:
I want to buy the LEGO Ninja and Pirate boats. Why? I have to have a reason?
@Giliell:
Why shouldn’t adults be allowed to play? We’re fucking adults! We make the rules!
Know what. I’m putting it out here right now:
Ahem, everyone in this thread. Buy a box of crayons and some paper. Draw a picture this weekend. That is all.
*giggles madly!*
obligatory xkcd
Giliell:
I know, I think that’s sad. Every time I’m at the Barnes & Noble (which is fairly often), I never neglect wandering through the toys/puzzles/games area. I have my eye on several lego sets, I expect they’ll follow me home soon enough. :D
But I need to know whether any of the mice were called Algernon.
It depends on what the researchers have read. If they’ve read the right book, they were all called Algernon.
As Rorschah has already pointed out, mice aren’t people so no declaring Alzheimer’s cured or anything. OTOH, since the drug is already on the market, the phase I trials can be skipped or attenuated. Promising, but not definitive.
@carlie:
There’s always an obligatory XKCD.
really, I can’t see how the mice put up with all this experimentation — considering they paid for all this in the first place. /Douglas Adams
Katherine
Well, yes, there’s a strict requirement:
You have to want and like them :)
We’re currently chipping in to give a friend the big Lego Starwars ship for his birthday.
Funny you should mention that – Sasha Baron-Cohen is his son.
.
Esteleth:
D:
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Hear hear.
QFT
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Shared with me by an old geologist, the following recipe for Antarctic base camp icecream:
One tin of blueberry jam
One tin of sweetened condensed milk
One tinful of fresh powder snow.
Half a tin of rum.
Mix thoroughly, leave outside, stir every half hour.
.
I gave her a heads-up that she was missed.
.
Hi Illuminata! I’ve just reappeared myself :)
.
Classical Cipher:
I … beg to differ.
@Gilliel:
Ahh true.
Of course I can’t buy them right at the moment cause I just spent about 50 bucks on cute clothings.
Well, I’ve never really accepted this whole being-an-adult thing. I still watch Rugrats and Garfield and Friends. :-)
I entirely lack any talent for drawing or finger-painting, however. (I never much liked art and craft activities when I was a child, and was quite spectacularly bad at them; I would always get frustrated and upset that I couldn’t make things look how I wanted them to look. My pastimes were reading books, lots and lots and lots of books, and watching TV.)
(The only creative activity I was ever good at was creative writing. Particularly poetry; I loved writing poetry from quite an early age. I still do, although I’m not practised enough to be great at it.)
Walton:
Then get yourself a pot of magnetic paint, paint an area for poetry play, then get several different boxes of magnetic poetry. I have at least 5 boxes of those around. :D
Not much for painting or Legos, but always like just doodling until a whole sheet of paper is covered. Sometimes I try fill the page without lifting the pen. Harmless fun and therapy.
Time for drugs.
(Advert)
COMMENT 666 COMING SOON!
DO NOT MISS OUR COMMENT 666 IN JUST 95 POSTINGS FROM NOW
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“Shared sacrifice”: http://cartoonbox.slate.com/tedrall/2012/02/06/
Wasn’t it Rebecca Watson who said that the good thing about being an adult was that you actually could have rainbow-cake for breakfast or something like that?
Ah, that was me with painting. My arts marks usually skyrocketed when it was anything but painting, which sadly didn’t happen often (paper and colour are easy and cheap).
The only thing I enjoy drawing are costume drafts. I learned over the years how to basically draw a human body and how to draw cloth falts.
Oh, and Katherine: I love your new fantasy blog! And I like the fact that you were a lot kinder to your orcs than Tolkien was. :-)
You whetted my appetite with the reference to the humans’ “representative monarchies”, though. You should definitely tell us more about the political systems of your world.
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You tell me this just as I’m in the middle of eating dry granola for breakfast?
(Just kidding. I actually like dry granola.)
I’m exhausted, and it’s late. I just wanted to share that I treated a lady at work today, who turned out to be a science fiction writer. Like, published and all. How cool is that.
@Walton:
I’ll be getting to the different political climates in a short while. After the whole “here is the world” and “here is the main continent” posts, I’m going to get to the “here are the different major cities.” The major cities mostly have different types of governments – for example, Tavsere is a representative monarchy, Seiis is a representative (literal) theocracy, Moore is a true monarchy – so naturally I’ll get that information in when I get to the city descriptions.
I think it mostly goes to show how much work I put into my story’s backstory. I’ve been working on it for fifteen whole years, and I’ve got (approximate) dates for major events, characters, histories, legends, geologies, and all kinds of other things like that just milling about in the back of my head.
Giliell – Actually, no. “Weg Wie Ein Agyptisches,” off Hypnotic Clambake’s Live at First Night in Rutland, Vermont double CD.
I can’t find them on YouTube doing that song, but here they are doing “The Psychedelic Polka.”
Carlie, I was thinking about the Pachelbel Rant since Josh first mentioned the Canon upthread. Have you heard the Taco Bell Canon?
Afternoon all.
Please excuse me, but I’m just going to rant because I’m stuck at work arguing with two of my colleagues over their ridiculous and sexist attitude to women.
Both of them are even raising daughters, like myself. When I asked them how they would feel if their daughters came to them after being discriminated for being a woman, one answered that ‘it’s just how the world works’, and the other said he’d essentially tell her to ‘man up’ or just deal with the issue himself with violence.
I feel like I’m banging my head against the wall and feel so hopeless that I can’t even get through to people I know (and who are otherwise decent people) for a change in attitude.
This after reading the comments section of a Daily Mail article on a councillor successfully getting prayers banned from council meetings…
Thanks for listening!
Just_A_Lurker @ #525: Sort of. Well, I used to be a switch. The switch is now permanently soldered into the “top” positions. And one of my former kinks is now one of my strongest PTSD triggers. And I always have a vague sense of blame for having put myself in that position.
Morales: It is impossible to not exclude some people in any group, whether actively, or by encouraging bullying douchebags to remain, thereby ostracizing others. We are merely taking a stand against predatory douchebags and stating our preference for those who are not.
I like these
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet_toys
really, I can’t see how the mice put up with all this experimentation — considering they paid for all this in the first place. /Douglas Adams
Duh! They want to get their money’s worth out of the place. The experimentation is part of the program running and if it stops, they might just get the penultimate question, the answer to which is 41.
I have always hated having people tell me how to behave.
*is excited*
Bideford Town Council prayers ruled unlawful.
Hooray! Though, of course, it only stops them making them item 1 on the agenda, it doesn’t stop them praying – you wouldn’t know this from the comments, however.
I know this will make some of the Horde very happy, Libby Anne has been assimilated into the FTB collective.
Especially by my 後輩。
Libby Anne has joined FTB! ZOMG! That is awesome.
Re Libby Anne: Awesomesauce!!
In other news… a funny story.
A friend of mine, who is Scottish, has a husband who is a French citizen of Greek descent. They have one son, named Dmitri. They live in France, but when Dmitri was born, they were living in Scotland. The registrar gave them a hard time about his name, claiming it was “foreign” and “people might not like it.” (Note that this was not some rural hamlet, but Edinburgh.)
The only other time she got any flak for how she named her son was when he was six months old and she was in line with him at the post office to buy stamps. An old woman was cooing over Dmitri, and when she learned what his name was, she said, “Oh. Oh, that poor, poor child!”
His mother replied sweetly, “That’s OK. He’s got three other names to chose from: Constantine, Ezequiel, and Maximilian!”
The old lady stopped speaking to her after that, kept peeping sadly at Dmitri, and whispered this information to her friend.
When my friend reached the front of the line, she spotted a friend of hers, who had overheard everything. She grinned and asked my friend with a straight face, “You figured out which bloke it was in Ibiza that knocked you up yet?”
“Nah,” my friend replied, “but I figure I’d give him a name for each of ’em, just in case!”
The old lady behind her damn near had a heart attack.
walton:
Sooo not the point. ~;>
Somewhere I have a standard rant about people being far too concerned with being good at art, as if that were some sort of prerequisite, when it’s been demonstrated that students who just practice art often enough end up producing higher-quality work. (see: Art and Fear) Quality’s got little to do with effectiveness (see XKCD) and less to do with enjoyment. My drawing teacher had us do disinhibition exercises, such as drawing still lifes with hands and paper hidden under the table, or with only five minutes to finish (or two minutes, or 30 seconds), or with our eyes closed; or with un-erasable Sharpie.
If you actually don’t like playing with paints or crayons, AFTER any mention of quality or skill has been removed, then by all means don’t bother – but I’ve rarely seen anyone uncouple the two. “Never apologize for your art.”
Phew, finally slogged through the TAA thread to the finish. I kept wondering why AoS was so fixated on TAA’s ratings, like having a poplular video series had anything to do with topic, or the video not being in bad taste. Finally, after 1000+ posts, it came out he thought we actually spent a lot of time at You-Tube, and could do something about it. Not a good communicator. Sorry, I don’t listen to rants on You-Tube.
Bideford Town Council prayers ruled unlawful.
First thought on reading this: “So were they praying to a chaotic god or what?” I don’t even play AD&D. Must stop reading Order of the Stick so often.
Michael Nugent is a great guy. Here is his speech in the recent debate with Hamza Tzortzis in Dublin on the motion of “Is the world better with religion ?”.
Except for a handful of people like AronRa, I mostly use YouTube to find music videos. Most of the time, when I link to a non music YT clip, it is because an other cite pointed it out.
Never heard of TAA before this. And the argument that Ace Of Seven had, that we atheists had to condemn him like christians and muslims need to condemn their extremists was silly. TAA does not have the same impact in RL as the Phelps clan, killers of abortion providers and terrorists.
Nerd, it is good that you just read that thread instead of getting involved, you need to get some rest.
(Yes, I will keep repeating this. You need the reminders.)
@Serendipitydawg #584
I read the comments on this on the Daily Mail article. I regretted it instantly! Lots of ‘persecuted’ Christians, and plenty of ‘Christian country if you don’t like it get out’ advocates.
The strange thing is what the ruling was based off. Not a breach of human rights or anything to do with keeping Government secular, but based on a minor point of law from the Local Government Act 1972.
Janine:
Neither had I. Ace’s insistence on castigating us repeatedly was seriously annoying me. The amount of sexist/misogynist crap we get here is bad enough, we’re supposed to be tracking down every misogynist douche on the internet? Yeah, right.
As for youtube, you couldn’t pay me to hang out there.
I avoid reading the comments to the videos I link to, especially when the performer is an attractive woman.
I’ve heard of TAA before all this. I used to be an EDiot.
It took me a while to remember, but he’s the heavyset guy on youtube with the Not-James-Randi beard, right? Apparently he’s been mockworthy for quite a long while.
Janine:
I expect that’s the only sane choice.
No, but now I can’t stop hearing it in my head!
Loud, all you can do is be a voice of reason. If they start hearing it from enough places they might realize the world doesn’t agree with them anymore.
I’ve always been fairly sure that one definition of being an adult is dealing with the fact that nobody cares about what your problems are when you have a job to do. Sorry you’re distracted by your own personal issues, but that report and that order form still have to be filled out before lunchtime. (no, I’m not bitter about how my morning started off today at all.)
The Bideford council item was on the 13:00 news and I waited for the item because after hearing the headline in the intro to the programme, I was predicting an immediate response from the CofE that would be something to the effect that this was yet another attack on xianity… I wasn’t disappointed, and the particular cleric that they interviewed made no valid case for the place of the church in local town politics, more a case of ‘we belong everywhere’ and not liking it when the National Secular Society demonstrate that they don’t.
Bideford isn’t, as far as I know, a town with the greatest ethnic and cultural mix and I would be really interested to know what town councils in places like Manchester, Bradford and Birmingham approach this: do they have multiple prayers for every one of the religions of their councillors?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iome0_REpXw&feature=g-vrec&context=G22f825eRVAAAAAAAADA
Sasano-Bori, like well executed chip carving, appears to be beyond my skillset.
I’m incredibly jealous of that wicked knife/hatchet thing he’s working with, too.
We’re out of honey.
I hate tea with sugar.
Youtube comments are stupid.
I see that chigau is now experimenting with free form verse.
(Sorry, I could not resist.)
@Loud #595
Indeed, I couldn’t believe this particular little nugget.
It was interesting that Exeter’s bishop has very much the same attitude as the people of Rhode Island who didn’t see why the law has to be obeyed. Mind you, I bet the bish couldn’t believe that prayer could ever be unlawful.
It still doesn’t make any difference; they can only not make it part of the official business of the council by placing it on the agenda and it says so much that they are all up on their hind legs complaining.
Ace of Sevens was ridiculous and obtuse. The atheist-sphere online is huge. It’s not our job to police all of it. Hell, it’s not even our job to be aware of all of it.
Janine, with very few exceptions, I don’t use YouTube for anything but music, comedy, and the occasional movie or TV clip. Maybe the very occasional documentary. I’d personally rather read what someone has to say, so I can skim, particularly if there’s introductory material of any kind.
Bloggers can be annoying enough. I don’t have any obligation to upgrade from textual to visual and audio annoyance by keeping up with every damn wanker on YouTube, either. Never mind wading into the comments.
Dang.
I was going for haiku.
Daisy @606:
I agree completely, plus very little intelligence exists in the YouTube comments anyway.
Some reasons to be cheerful from the UK:
No. 1: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16985147
No. 2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16980025
No. 3: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15811223
Anti-gay bigots jailed, official prayers banned in council meetings and Xian B&B owners not allowed to hide behind the Babble as an excuse for bigotry.
Queue the radio phone-ins lamenting the UK abandoning its Xian roots…
The thing I love most about Legos (though I could only really articulate this as an adult) is the quantum nature of the blocks: because you’re forced to deal with rather bulky discreet units, you have to use your imagination on the final product. It’s a less passive version of seeing shapes in clouds. They come in enough different sizes and styles that you have some options, but there’s always the minimum basic unit that you can’t go below.
One of my coworkers brought in a box of Legos for a project she’s working on: she’s trying to teach the scrum programming methodology, and is using an “assembly line” metaphor to do it with the Legos as the product. This resulted in two things.
1) The box she brought in was her daughter’s (which is a yay), but it’s pink. As in, the actual box they were sold in was pink. All of us (including her) railed against this – not that there was an option for pink Legos, but that pink Legos were being marketed explicitly to girls, thus implying that the non-pink Legos were “for boys”. I’m kind of surprised but happy that every single one of the programmers (and most of them wouldn’t self-identify as feminists) saw this independently and were immediately annoyed for the right reasons.
2) She left the box on the table for 5 minutes. Of course, since four of us were sitting there, she then had a pile of random Lego creations at the end of the 5 minutes.
3) The notion that a space ship could have horses as landing gear came up. This is why Legos are awesome.
Actually I think AoS was actually so fixated on it because atheists via views and merch give TAA 50K a year for being him.
James May did a series on toys and the first ep (I think) was a Lego challenge – to build a house and all the things in it out of legos. It was fascinating.
Ing:
So fucking what? It doesn’t excuse Ace’s behaviour towards us or their complete lack of communication skills.
@Caine
The thing was I can see where AoS was coming from and tried to engage him on what I thought was the relevant point. I still don’t get why he seemed to mostly ignore me since I was admitting to being the type of people he was mad at and kept talking to everyone else though.
Pteryxx
Not the point either.
I mean, sure, most people can get proficency in almost everything with enough practise. Whether you enjoy something and are therefore willing to invest that effort, or simply enjoy it although you suck at it (I like singing and dancing, I’m not good at either) is a different matter.
But, well, not enjoying something and sucking at it is a good recipe for being frustrated with something.
My brother in law (who is a talented painter) also had problems understanding that I really don’t care about drawing or painting. He also claimed that “well, you can learn the techniques”. Sure, I could, just like most people can learn how to cook, but, well, I’m not interested.
Yeah, I found Ace of Sevens annoying, too. It was this air of “you should all stop doing what you consider important and start doing what I find important. Actually you should have started doing that a long time ago.”
Ing:
Because plainly stating their problem wasn’t the aim and neither was working toward some sort of “fix”. All they wanted to do was blame someone, and Ace decided it was The Horde’s fault that TAA was operating at all. Then there was the continues influx of people who said they’d never heard of the asshole at all prior to the post and Ace finally had to acknowledge that.
Ace obviously has some serious problems when it comes to youtube (such as not having a boatload of viewers) and primarily hangs there and did not want to deal with the fact that most Pharyngulites don’t hang out there and don’t want to, either.
@Teh kiloGraeme #609
It’s already happening. Eric Pickles, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, has already said “While welcoming and respecting fellow British citizens who belong to other faiths, we are a Christian country, with an established Church in England, governed by the Queen.”
Personally, I’m not at all “cheerful” about the over-broad and ill-defined criminal offence of “stirring up hatred on the ground of [protected characteristic]”, which is unnecessary and should never have been created in the first place. (I understand that the offence in this case was that of putting threatening leaflets, which advocated the killing of gay people, through the letterboxes of people in the local area; for that, they could equally easily have been charged under the Malicious Communications Act 1988.)
And I’d venture to suggest that a prison sentence for handing out leaflets, even highly offensive and threatening leaflets, is absurd. We need to get out of the paradigm of prison-as-punishment; it’s led to England and Wales having by far the highest incarceration rate per capita in Western Europe (more than 150 per 100,000), with most of the increase in the last two decades being more and more use of short prison sentences for minor crimes, where other countries would use administrative sanctions instead. (This is good for the private prison industry, but not for anyone else.) Imprisonment, given that it completely destroys a person’s life and makes him or her much more likely to commit further crimes after release, should be a last resort for the most extreme perpetrators of violence who cannot otherwise be contained.
The degree to which TJ’s defenders on AE’s therad dive into moral nihlism is distrubing.
“Are atheists really the ones who are going to say agree with me or else!?”
It’s…like exactly Joepa…suddenly common moral and ethical concepts are ‘extreme self righteous’ positions.
Janine @280
I saw that segment. What a nasty old dude that was who claimed that Maddow’s parents should have used contraception so that she would have never been born.
A particularly nice segment is this one: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#46335749
Rachel discusses the push for legalizing gay marriage in Washington State. It features Republican State Representative Maureen Walsh giving a speech in support of marriage equality. Great speech.
After reading the gay suicide story again: Fuck off Walton.
Giliell: yeah, I said that’s why art SKILL should not be a prerequisite for art ENJOYMENT. But lots of people don’t or can’t enjoy making art because they’re so concerned about lacking skill in the first place. It ought to be the other way around.
@Loud,
Eric Pickles is due to speak on PM tonigh, though I don’t think I can be bothered to listen. The whole point is that it is unlawful to place prayers on the agenda of a council and apart from amending the local government act, there isn’t a lot to be said on the matter.
Phew, it’s hard work catching up… work has instituted a blanket ban on most blogs during working hours, so I get 30 minutes between 13:00 and 13:30 to try and keep up with FtB. I preferred it when they just blocked Facebook but a few people have obviously been overdoing it on their fave blogs… not me, obviously ;-)
Cosigning Ing @ #621. The effects are indisputable, and measurable. Actual human beings matter more. Full stop.
If you’re implying that I don’t care about gay kids who commit suicide, then fuck you too. That’s one of the most offensive things you could possibly have said to me. I’m bisexual myself, and I will not have you slander me like this. I will not. You can fuck right off.
(And it’s a typical authoritarian tactic. Right-wingers use exactly this kind of dishonest emotional manipulation to attack the ACLU and criminal defence lawyers all the time: accusing them of “not caring about the victims of crime” when they stand up for prisoners’ rights or the rights of the accused.)
I do not believe, having studied criminal justice and its effects on society at length, that using prison as a form of revenge is ever a good thing. I am not going to apologize for that. The knee-jerk reaction of “this person has done something bad and harmful, therefore the state should lock them up and make them suffer” has caused immeasurable harm to our society.
So what’s the answer then? Because surely we can’t have these hate-mongering bigots on our streets, right?
Obama is about to announce that he’s going to expand the religious exemption to the contraceptive coverage. Fuck. I was looking forward to actually getting my birth control pills paid for by my insurance. Stupid fucking Republicans.
I was hoping that we could help Benjamin, and I hate to give up on him, but he seems…clue-proof. If he’s not even going to try, there’s not a lot of point in tolerating his down-sides.
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I thought Jules left due to limited Internet access, just before the incident with Benjamin? If it was otherwise, then Jules, please come home! We miss you!
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Hi back, aladegorrion. :)
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This, in a nutshell.
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Maybe ignore him except when he needs correction? Linkys to previous examples of the same might help to keep it short, and limit the interactivity.
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Try this. Works for me every time.
*runs away giggling madly*
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Oh hell yeah. A lot of the time, the lyrics in a song don’t register at all, which makes my usual approach (google lyrics; “excerpted bit of lyrics”) impossible. Humming at Google does no good at all.
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Congratulations, Richard Austin; you have just over-written Spleen Weasel all over “Dreamweaver” in my mind’s ear.
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What the fuck has this got to do with what I was saying? Actual human beings matter more than what? The people sentenced to suffer in prisons – and yes, prisons are fucking hellholes – are actual human beings too. They’re actual human beings when they are released, too, and find themselves with no job, no home, and permanently unemployable because of their criminal records. And our society’s fetish for locking people up has ripped apart millions of families and ruined millions of lives.
This has nothing to do with approving of anti-gay hate speech. I am bisexual. The people writing these leaflets want to put me and people like me, and many of my closest friends, to death. Don’t you dare fucking accuse me of making excuses for their behaviour or of not caring about it. Don’t you dare. I am as opposed to homophobia as anyone is, and I have plenty of personal stake in it.
I simply do not want to live in a society where our response to everything is to have the state take violent revenge. Human beings need to grow out of the desire for retribution. And I will not apologize for that, I will not back down, and I will not accept Ing’s dishonest framing of me as someone who does not care about the victims.
Skipping to the end ’cause I can’t really see at the moment…
The Sailor:
$*%^, that made me cry. Because I fear that someday I’ll need someone like you to come rack my yard and I’m not sure I know anyone.
Esteleth,
Do you have a pointer to something about “Ritalin (which has been documented as doing Bad Things to people on the spectrum)”? I’d be interested. Spawn, went through a bunch of medicines when he got the ADHD label, prior to the PDD-NOS diagnosis … to answer a previous question in the TET: no, the later diagnosis doesn’t automatically nullify the earlier one, in spawn’s case the two are comorbid. … anyway, while trying out one of the stimulants he was just completely out-of-control, angry, vengeful, etc. One incident in a store parking lot had a passerby asking whether they should call the police. I wonder if that’s one of the known BadThings™? Sorry to hear about your experiences w/ sexism and ASD.
Walton:
You’re the one defending the actions which cause kids to die. It’s hardly unsurprising you’ll catch some flak for that stance.
@Walton
I don’t think you don’t care about victims. I just find the lectures on the importance of freespeech are incredibly callous in this regard.
Cicely: I used to be stupid and clueless before too. I used to say and think overwhelmingly misogynist things too, before I learned better. So it gave me a misguided urge to try to be merciful to Ben.
One huge thing I’ve learned about feminism and combatting the creepy-ass rape culture we live in, if I’ve learned ANYTHING here, is that it needs to stop being socially acceptable. We need to stop overlooking this shit, excusing it away, and putting their right to say stupid misogynistic shit above people’s right to generally feel safe.
Please, by all means, correct me if I’m wrong.\
One more thing: I would have never considered changing my shitty ways, if it weren’t for a few feminist-types (long before pharyngula) telling me exactly why my bullshit wouldn’t fly and what was wrong with it.
That should be “It’s hardly surprising”. I need sleep.
Ooooooo, Obama is tricky. He made it so that insurance companies are required to offer contraceptive coverage to women (free of charge), so that it wouldn’t go through religious organizations. He basically went over the heads of the stupid Republicans. Oh, that was great. The conservatives are going to freak out. I withdraw my previous anger and pessimism; I’m happy now.
Already got a picture I’m working on, so I’ll stick with my Prismacolor pencils if you don’t mind.
And this is a rather pathetic attempt to discount Ing’s concerns, comparing “Fuck you Walton” to that.
Instead of focusing on the punishment of vile people who claim that they are only acting out of the best (religious) principles, how you we protect youth from such vicious people.
Seriously, Walton, would you have liked to received that pamplet when you were a teen and struggling with trying to be open about being bi?
By what means should these children be kept safe?
*THE BIGGEST HUGS*
I meant outside of text (where I have an easier time knowing what to say) :) And hey, it might not be true there either, for all I know. I’m having a down-on-myself time about it lately because, well, two different people I love have been hurting lately, and I have therefore been very conscious of the fact that I don’t know how to respond at all, and as far as I can tell (admittedly this is kinda circular because I could just be missing my own nonverbal cues) I seem to go very stoic and calm outwardly under those circumstances. And in the past I’ve been accused a couple of times of having the wrong reactions to other people’s pain, so it’s something I worry about somewhat extra.
Combined with the “you”s and “people”s that obviously referred to us in some way and ignoring of responses, followed by “Why do you think I’m talking about you?”, followed by “Sorry I assumed that about you,” followed by “Even if you don’t do it, it’s a problem that you need to talk about,” followed by “Here’s this random comment from 2010 that perfectly illustrates the problem here,” followed by “You claimed I was accusing you when I wasn’t talking about you at all”…
Oh My.
The Walton is breathing fire today!
I gotta admire the passion displayed, even if in this case I think Walton is being just a teensy bit misguided.
Instead of making a statement one way or the other, I want to echo Janine’s question.
@ SQB 530
I love me some “Die Antwoord”. If you have the time, you might want to watch this (about an hour long) video of a christian trying to take down one of their videos. I really don’t know whether to laugh or cry out loud. The commenter is just so fucking out-to-lunch in his criticism. All the OTT parody of overblown machismo he takes for real. And he is so beside the mark about South African culture, he makes one’s head spin. I also think that he doth protest too much. (The video was taken off youtube for a long time, methinks for copyright reasons, but it is back in all its misguided ignorance.) Linky: Satanic Music Video Exposed (Ooooh, we are all soooo scared.)
@ Ms Daisy Cutter 531
Fortunately my face healed up pretty much 100%. The problem was that some of the scars on my body turned cancerous and I had to have these removed. The most serious was a large scar on my shoulder which got quite bad. Misdiagnosed then misdiagnosed again meant it got treated late, but luckily in time to save me. End result is that a big chunk of my shoulder got cut out, that took very long to recover. It will never be 100%, but it is pretty close and causes very little trouble. I don’t mind my scars. I just regard them as alternatives to tats.
@ Kitty 542
Aah… I recognise some very Pharynguly traits in the Tallis. *gives big thumbs up*
@ Kitty’s Kitty
{Mollyphontes hops onto couch and starts patting the keys with her paws}
jhchxshcdvtchcsevylkkdresfbceqqwerty/12e3j4nbdjsdb
[note to readers: Wow, it looks like Molly is sending a message to Kitty.
Kittehz + Interwebz = … well, let me just say that I wish to welcome our new feline oberlawds.]
@ Starstuff 627
Does this mean that people who don’t want free contraception for religious reasons are exempted from having to receive free contraception?
(Wishful thinking I know. The religious loons obviously want their narrow point of view shoved down everybodies throats.)
Walton, frankly, given my own academic experiences as well as lived knowledge of the fuckery of the justice system, while I think you are right that it’s currently deeply fucked up, I find your anti-prison stance absolutely morally, criminologically and ethically indefensible and agonizingly naive. The fact that you’re yammering about free speech over the bodies of dead queer kids is saying a lot more than you want it to. Perhaps you should think on that for a while. You’re defending the (highly disputable) philosophical concepts over the clear, measurable results. If you don’t like having it pointed out, stop doing it.
SC left a message at Joe.My.God. getting on some of the commenters for condoning prison rape for the just imprisoned pamphleteers.
Good for her. As much as I like that blog, the comments were bothering me.
I am NOT “defending the actions which cause kids to die.” I am arguing that punitive imprisonment as a form of revenge is a bad thing, and that more violence and more state repression will never fix anything. That does not translate into defending anti-gay hate speech, and to claim that it does is simply a lie.
Using more violence and state repression is not going to solve anything. I spend my time talking about, writing about, and studying state repression and violence. Particularly in the context of immigration detention and the appalling maltreatment of undocumented immigrants and asylum-seekers, who are put in detention camps or left to die at the border. But the penal system is part of this too. Prisons are hellholes, the penal system is a fucking catastrophe, and locking more people up will not help. It will make things worse.
What should be done instead? Education. Changing the culture. Protesting against homophobia, racism, sexism, transphobia and anti-immigrant bigotry. Speaking out against it. We all do this. We all know how to do this. We all know that it has an effect.
Walton, do you remember the last time you were going a tad overboard about people in prison and I mentioned that you rarely had a well balanced view? You know that’s a problem you have. I think your sensitivity often keeps you from focusing on the victim side of these issues and I can understand that, it’s tough, truly tough.
All that said, I think you really need to try a bit more in having a wider, more balanced view of such situations, rather than always settling for a narrow focus which hangs off the extreme end of a viewpoint.
I know you don’t lack empathy. However, when you get going with your narrow focus, you come across as someone who lacks empathy and understanding.
I only ever got threatened for being gay once, and that ended up turning out “okay”. So, I don’t know that my perspective is entirely relevant here (though I have a different history).
My position is… conflicted. I know where Walton is coming from, and I see the inherent problems with criminalizing speech one doesn’t agree with.
At the same time, there are certain patterns of speech that tend to lead to certain crimes, and if we wait until the crime is committed, it’s too late: a victim is dead or permanently scarred (phsyically and/or emotionally). There are also certain patterns of speech that lead to inherently oppressive and victimizing cultures; while there may be no explicit crime committed, there is still a victim.
How do you solve that? Yes, there may be long-term, ideal solutions such as improved education and such. I know that. But that doesn’t help in the short term, and it may not realistically help even in the long term: look at the civil rights movement, where things have improved over 50ish years but the original problems still exist. How many people are we willing to “sacrifice” in the name of a long-term solution that may never fully materialize?
I’ve read that the existentialists in Paris used to have arguments about oppression, and that the two methods for handling it were “destroy it” and “escape it” (that’s probably oversimplified). I’m starting to wonder if “destroy it” isn’t really an option, and that escaping it may be the best choice. But how do you apply that to the 13-year-old who is being told by everyone and everything he knows that he’s an abomination and a horrible person?
RATS! Or maybe just a rat. I think it’s a rat. In my apartment. Fucker woke me up 2 nights ago by knocking over the water glass next to my bed, but I thought I’d done it in my sleep.
And 3 nights ago I did notice I had to clean up some pistachio shells from the floor, and an hour later I had to pick up a couple more, but I just thought I’d been careless with my pistachios.
Then last night something woke me up again and I lay there wondering what woke me and I heard a sound from my kitchen that sounded like a cat playing with a paper bag. I don’t have a cat.
I flipped on the overhead just in time to see a shape dart into the gloom, galloping, bounding, not scurrying. But I didn’t have my glasses on and I was 1/2 awake and it was a fleeting impression. When I crawled under my desk where he had darted I found a full pack of cigarettes he’d stolen. There were 2 perfect marks about the size and shape of a flat staple.
Does that sound like a rat?
Well, file that under ‘long-term strategy.’ What should be done RIGHT NOW to protect these people? Because people are dying, whether by someone else or their own hand, RIGHT NOW because of this shit. Prison and criminal response may be a bit heavy handed, it’s certainly a clunky and unelegant solution, but RIGHT NOW, it appears to be all we have.
Walton:
Walton, you do too much fucking projecting. Consequences tend to bring about social change, whether you fucking like that or not.
I have studied criminology in my academic life, and I have been interested in criminal justice systems for years. I have never argued that there should be no prisons or that no one should ever go to prison. For the likes of rapists and murderers, there is probably no other option in our present fucked-up society.
However, in the US and UK, there has been an increasing obsession with locking more and more people up in the last few decades. It’s much worse in the US (with mandatory sentencing, “three strikes” laws and the “War on Drugs”, and a prison population in excess of 750 per 100,000), but the UK is far worse than the rest of Western Europe. This destroys lives, and it actually increases crime, given the high rate of recidivism among people released from prison. And the culprit is the culture of punitivism: the idea that the justice system is there to “punish” “bad people”, and that the solution is to lock more and more people up, rather than trying to help or educate them.
We cannot fix anything through more criminal sanctions or more imprisonment. We cannot fight injustice with more state violence. It does not work. It makes things worse.
No, I am not. The state of the prison system, and the effect of being imprisoned on a human life, is a “clear, measurable result”. I was not “yammering about free speech”, and that’s a mendacious and extremely hurtful distortion of what I said.
That’s not me! It doesn’t link to my blog, does it? If it had been me on Blogger, my little avatar would be there. (I certainly can’t claim ownership of the two initials, but on Blogger I kind of can.)
The Sailor: Sounds like rats to me.
Sorry, it sounded like it could have been you, though a bit shorter than normal.
Still, I have to agree with what the other SC said.
Richard:
I’m bi and I’ve been threatened way more than once, usually with rape and I was once sucker punched directly in the face coming out of a gay bar. It’s all kinds of fuckin’ fun.
@theophontes:
They’re probably my favorite race I ever created, solely cause they’re so much like me. Fascinated with technology, curious, scientifically minded, very smart, loves their families, a bit ADD, and (in the other stories without local, visible gods) atheists.
I’ll have to wait to get home to let Snip send a return message to Molly o.o
Pteryxx
I think we’re in agreement.
I have a friend whom I admire a lot in that respect. She sucks at everything, and I’m really not mean here, she does. When preparing crafts workshops, she is our guniea pig for the worst case crafter. If there’s a mistake that can be made, she’ll make it, if there’s a question that would never occur to us because for us it’s a no-brainer, she’ll ask it.
But she does everything with enthusiasm, dedication and joy.
The Sailor, teeth marks the size of a flat staple? That’s kind of large for a rat. Might be a squirrel.
Walton: Seriously, look into Caine’s suggestions. I know you aren’t lacking in empathy, but you are really coming off like it. Really.
After we carve out you-all’s favorite exceptions to freedom of speech, we can get busy on mine.
Then, Rick Santorum’s.
There is no spoon.
But yeah, The Tick was awesome.
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Sorry, Katherine; no can do. My mind is still stuffed full of jellyfish. :D
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Caine:
I hope I didn’t come across as minimizing it; that was the exact opposite of the intent of my statement: that I haven’t had that personal experience, so I don’t know if my perspective means much.
(I unfortunately know plenty of people who have suffered bashings – even one straight guy who worked in West Hollywood. Two online friends who ran a bar in Washington were stalked and beaten.)
@ TLC
Hate speech like that does cause a lot of harm. It can create an environment where bullies feel all the more justified in beating up on people who have been stigmatized by such rhetoric. But more simply it can lower peoples’ self regard and cause psychological stress. As we are entitled to a clean physical environment, we are entitled to a clean social environment free from such noxious memetic pollution.
It is not necessary to meet verbal violence with physical violence from the state. Simply fine the perpetrators of hate speech. Increase the fines exponentially so that you can catch up with people wealthy enough to pay the initial fines. We fine people who wrongly park in “handicap bays” or who pollute the environment, why not fine people for poisoning everyone’s social milieu.
False equivalence much? The speech Frothy would like to restrict isn’t the kind that is killing children.
Katherine Lorraine, just a heads up. I see that at Ed Brayton’s blog, you commented on something slc1 said. Please keep in mind that he has proposed genocide as of means of ending Islamic terrorism. I am sure that Walton has the links to these statements.
KittySnip. (Oops, my brain is a little rusty.)And now I have to go to class, for which I’m already late. Great fucking timing, Walton.
I empathize with the victims and their families a hell of a lot. I am strongly opposed to anti-gay hatred. It ruins lives and kills people. (As someone focused on refugee rights and asylum issues, I’m all too horribly aware of the horrendous impact that anti-gay hatred has had in much of the world.)
I also empathize with people whose lives are ruined by the prison system, and their families. Whatever they have done, and however they ended up there. I do not think this represents a lack of empathy, nor does it diminish my empathy for the victims.
I can say nothing else on this subject. I’m sorry for yelling at people, but I was really, incredibly, personally hurt by what Ing and others said, and I can’t ignore that. Nor can I back down, because I care very deeply about this issue.
Beast!
Skipping to the end to say Giliell – re: your driving to your parents’ house question – have you read Thinking, Fast and Slow? That’s an example of “fast” thinking – the kind of thing you do with your brain on autopilot.
It’s an excellent book, I highly recommend it.
Frankly, I agree with Walton on his point in regards to prisons. I don’t think it’s fair to expect Walton to have the answer to the question of what should be done about vicious anti-gay propagandisers presently, though. I think everyone knows that’s not really fair. They’re two separate issues.
That being the case of course -that they’re two separate issues- Walton, you’re hijacking a gay teen’s suicide as an excuse to talk about how awful prisons are and how the justice system is horribly fucked up. Yeah, you’re right about that, but there’s a time and place.
Perhaps, and this is only a suggestion, you might have been more subtle (read: diplomatic) about bringing up your favourite topic? You might have started with punishments (I know, problematic word) for the handing out of hateful leaflets that you, as a queer person, would find acceptable? Honestly, I don’t think people should be imprisoned for being hateful bigots either (for many of the same reasons and none of the same reasons as you), but the first thing that comes to my mind when I read about a gay teen suicide isn’t how fucked up the prison system is and how it’s not helping. That comes up later, or behind, quietly and simultaneously the other big thought that first comes to mind. Do you know what that thought is Walton? Tell me, and I’m not being patronising, because I know you’re not a callous asshole, just an obsessive type.
I don’t think it’s a matter of whether skills should be a prerequisite, but that they are necessary. It doesn’t often require much skill to enjoy something, but one always needs some abilities (to comprehend it, see or hear it a certain way, etc.) in order to enjoy it. It’s just a difference of degree and more noticeable when many people lack what’s needed to like “difficult” artworks, but people tend to take what skills they do have for granted.
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Since this has been one of your pet topics for a long time, it seems like you would’ve realized by now that it’s going to piss people off if you don’t address the whole problem.
That’s all good and necessary, but it isn’t sufficient. Sometimes we need to be able to force people to stop harmful and threatening behavior. I don’t like long prison sentence either or the way the prison system is run (in the U.S. and probably many other countries), but you have to come up with something better if you want to even pretend to have a good solution.
Caine, what I meant was that the marks were about as far apart as the legs on a staple. They looked like this, but thicker:
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Also, it did bound like a chipmunk or squirrel, do rats bound?
@cicely:
Then draw a jellyfish! I’m going to draw a dargon. Maybe a unicron fighting a dargon.
@janine:
Well, we’re talking about how Ray Comfort is an indeterminable asshole… soo I’ll keep an eye out for if it turns to Islamic stuff?
not a real link
abbr
acronym
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codedelem
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strikestrong
supsub
[out of my depth, but what the hell]
I think that an argument from practicality, e.g.
is not without merit. However, it seems that hate-speech laws could also be used to censor ideas that none of us find hateful–a practical consideration as well. I predict that Christians (the vast majority where I live), may view attacks on their ideas or behaviors as hateful, and may seek to use those laws to persecute…us I guess.
Is there some wording of these laws that prevents such a thing from happening? What in particular would enforce the spirit of these laws so they weren’t used maliciously to persecute those voicing minority ideas?
hmmm
that dotted underline in abbr and acronym didn’t show in preview.
Walton, the case in question is a straight-up one of incitement to violence. If you want to discuss imprisoning fewer people, I’m fine with changing the drug laws, considering home arrest for things like shoplifting, etc. Not for letting people who try to exhort other people, either individually or with the power of the state, to kill groups of despised individuals.
I agree with HappiestSadist: You looking at things from a very academic level. Awesome, you’ve studied criminology. You’re using that knowledge to override the lived experiences of people here. You may not have straight privilege, but you’ve got a shit-ton of class privilege that can protect you from at least some homophobic violence.
“State repression”? Give me a fucking break. I am more than happy to have the state “repress” people who want to kill some of the folks I love. Education and culture change aren’t going fix everything, and certainly not overnight.
Your “open borders” rants tick me off similarly. You’re wealthy and highly educated, and able to move back and forth between the U.S. and the U.K. easily. Lots of us here have struggled to find work in the last five years. How the fuck do you think it sounds when you, from your lofty perch at fucking Harvard, lecture us on how we should consider all the other people in the world who don’t have jobs and can’t easily move to another part of the world — and, more to the point, don’t want to and shouldn’t have to?
Get your head out of your goddamned privileged arse and listen to people who will have to live with the effects of what you’re suggesting for a change.
Cry me a river. How about you consider the effect of your words on other people?
And, Chas, shut the fuck up. Limiting speech to protect people from being beaten, raped, or killed isn’t the same as limiting speech that displeases privileged assholes like you or Santorum.
Crap. Typing While Angry. Part of my previous comment should read: “How the fuck do you think it sounds when you, from your lofty perch at fucking Harvard, lecture us on how we should consider all the other people in the world who don’t have jobs when we can’t easily move to another part of the world — and, more to the point, don’t want to and shouldn’t have to?”
Richard:
No, you didn’t, not at all.
The Sailor:
If that’s a rat, it has serious tooth problems. A rat’s front teeth are long, but taper to very narrow and are tightly together. Then again, if it was a rat using its cheek flap, the gap is plausible. If you scroll down here, you’ll see a couple of photos of rat incisors.
It’s not their preferred method of locomotion, but yes, they are capable of bounding, especially if they are in fear or stealing something.
How do you formulate a law that ensures this? Incitement to violence cannot be the only criterion for defining hate speech. How do you legally protect groups that are most likely to suffer from this kind of bullshit without creating an umbrella under which just anyone can stand?
The Chicago Tribune starts off an article about Jerry Sandusky with this:
And all I can think is, “Who gives a fuckwhat breaks Sandusky’s heart? What about the fucking lives that he’s broken?”
I hate people. I really really do.
Also, The Sailor, take what I’m saying with a healthy dose of salt, as there can be a healthy size differential when it comes to wild rats vs domesticated rats. Some of the wild ones can reach pretty large size.
That’s probably unavoidable to some extent. Words only work insofar as people share a common understanding of them. That’s why we also need to change opinions in society, including our own, so they will comport with reality (what actually is harmful and preventable).
That’s a tough question. I’m obviously not an ethicist or a legal scholar, so my answers probably aren’t very helpful. I’m concerned with threatening behavior rather than merely expressing hatred, so if we can limit such laws to that sort of thing, it’s hard to see how they could be used as a legitimate kind of “persecution.” So, for example, if some person in a minority is threatening a bigot in the majority, there’s no question that one ought to side with the person being threatened, even if one isn’t like them or doesn’t agree with their bigotry.
Aaaauuuuugggghhhhh.
Antiochus: I am not a lawyer or other specialist in this area, but from what some residents of Canada and various European countries have told me, their hate-speech laws work fairly well, if not perfectly. The U.S. is quite an outlier when it comes to freedom of speech, for good and for bad.
Theophontes: I’m glad you’re okay. And, yeah, some scars on your shoulder are a lot better to have than cancer.
Nigel: Awww, Jewwy can’t talk to his gwandkids? Boo hoo fucking hoo. But that sob story will garner the Tribune and its advertisers a lot of page hits, which I’m sure was at least one motivation for running it.
I see.
And how many people were beaten, raped, or killed because these 3 zealots put Koran-quoting leaflets in some mailboxes in Derbyshire?
Or is merely the perceived possibility of inciting violence (or, as the argument was being phrased earlier, suicide) sufficient to criminalize speech? Who is in charge of possibility-perception? You? The Supreme Court?
Are all groups to be similarly protected against hate-speech, or only those perceived as less privileged? And who makes those judgments? You? The proud citizens of Oklahoma? The next Republican President?
You don’t seem to really grok this whole freedom of speech thing very well.
ROUSes? I don’t believe they exist.
*thump*
Caine, I know you’re the resident rat expert and not me…. but have you tried rotating the rat you’re picturing in your head 180 degrees? Think ‘top and bottom’, not ‘left and right’?
by this, do you mean you took Crim Pro?
It amuses me to no end when people from disparate places go on about freedom of speech. It effectively does not exist anywhere except in the United States, and I would argue that even so enshrined in its constitution as it is, that country is one of the worst offenders in obstructing it.
Most of the rest of the world deals with freedom(s) of expression and hate speech, at least in Canada, is rather clearly spelled out and does not limit any reasonable definition of so-called ‘free speech’.
Arguments against hate speech laws should at least reference the reality of hate speech laws and not bogus myths and not-evidenced slippery slopes.
(And I’ll note, in case they’re brought up, that the HRC (Human Rights Commission) and the various HRTs (Human Rights Tribunals) are essentially fucked up institutions that are entirely separate issues from hate speech as spelled out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.)
Duh. make that 90 degrees. I fail at math.
TLC, yeah, I did. It could be a rat, it could just as easily be a squirrel or chipmonk. Hard to say with so little to go on.
Generally, rat bite marks are on small side unless they are really bearing down or using their cheek flap, which causes the lower incisors to separate. *looks at rat bite scar on arm* Okay, that could be a rat bite, except for the separation in The Sailor’s description. That would be caused by the cheek flap being used, which acts as a barrier to swallowing whatever is being chewed. Might be helpful to know what was bit or chewed.
When a rat bites through something, top and bottom, the bites look circular.
Okay, small correction, I don’t mean ‘entirely separate’, but entirely separate in the terms of a conversation about speech rights. Those institutions adjudicate on hate speech (and human right’s issues generally) in Canada, but they are seriously fucked up to the point of, in my opinion, abusing the laws and legislation that they enforce to the detriment of society at large. That is, they shouldn’t be used (those institutions) to argue against hate speech in Canada because it is really quite clearly spelled out and those institutions abuse the writ and spirit of the law.
I know one thing Caine, rodent top incisors only leave side by side marks with a gap in between like that in old Chip n Dale cartoons.
Beyond that I cannot say.
SQB:
Good grief, how scary was Yo-Landi in that?! I didn’t realise they had another album out: downloading now.
TLC:
Yeah, I think I’m pretty useless on this front. The best I can say is get a better look at it – if it has a furry tail, it ain’t a rat. :D
Although, a rat can have weird dentition, it happens. Arlo had misaligned top and bottom incisors, so he couldn’t grind them down properly. Had to take him in to the vet every couple of months to have his teeth trimmed.
What a stupid excuse for an argument. There was evidence at the trial of gay people who received the leaflets through their doors, thought they were being targeted – they didn’t know every house in the area got one – and were terrified. Why the fuck should people have to put up with being terrorised by bigots in the name of free speech? And why don’t the “slippery slope” crowd ever produce any actual evidence of a slippery slope existing? Oh yeah, because there isn’t any.
KG @ 696, thank you.
:Urge to kill…fading:
dontpanic,
Most of the problems with giving Ritalin and related psychostimulants are the things that you’ve noticed in the Spawn. Of course, there are some studies that suggest that it can be useful in managing the hyperactivity and flightiness that frequently manifests in people with ASD, but it can also be very bad. A lot of the problem is that (1) ASD is not a simple disease with a single set of symptoms, but a big floppy spectrum, and (2) ASD can, and does, co-manifest with other conditions such as ADD/ADHD.
So treating a kid on the spectrum with Ritalin is problematic. It can work if the kid has ADD/ADHD as a comorbidity or if they have ADD/ADHD-like symptoms. However, if they don’t have ADD/ADHD or similar, the drug can have devastating effects.
An important thing to keep in mind is the why of a particular symptom. Is Spawn antsy and not paying attention in school due to hyperactivity or because Spawn is bored because the lesson is too easy? Is Spawn melting down in public due to an inability to grasp that melting down in not appropriate, because Spawn in overtired, or because Spawn has been overstimulated (remember that many people on the spectrum have data-processing limitations that make overstimulation very easy)? Answering the why is the key to dealing with it. Try to answer the why, and seek therapies (up to and including medication) that fit.
Well, fine. Apparently I’m not fucking welcome in this “community”, and apparently I’m going to be yelled at by Ms. Born-An-American-Citizen-And-Proud-Of-It Daisy Cutter for standing up for the rights of immigrants who are detained, tortured and made to suffer by racist immigration laws. Do you think I don’t fucking know that I’m privileged? That’s why I work on behalf of people who are not.
Fuck this. I’ve had enough. I don’t know what’s expected of me, but apparently I will never be good enough.
What? No I wasn’t. I was talking about this news story, which had nothing to do with a gay teen’s suicide. I didn’t know anything about a suicide until Ing brought it up in reply to me. I may be guilty of bad timing, but it wasn’t intentional.
If laws are carefully drafted, as all laws should be, this should not be possible. Can you (or Walton) cite any cases brought under the relevant Acts which suggest this is a real danger?
Walton, you got yelled at, it’s hardly the end of the fucking world. Get off the net for a while, go breathe, have some fun, enjoy life for a bit.
By the way, not everyone yelled at you. Some of us even showed considerable restraint.
Walton,
You know very well this doesn’t, and shouldn’t, give you a free pass on what you say.
Cut the melodrama. Most of us value your contributions, and respect the way you’ve been willing to change. Again, that doesn’t exempt you from criticism.
Walton, there’s something seriously fucking wrong with you. Yes. There is. Stop fucking sniveling when it’s pointed out that you’re spewing seriously privileged bullshit, and that you’re naive as hell to boot. Go cry with your Rich White Kid’s Burden in Hahvahd.
Caine, TLC, I’ll try to take a pic of the cigarette pack tonight and upload it somewhere you can see it. What surprised about the bite marks was there weren’t top and bottom, it’s like someone punched a staple thru it.
No offense Caine, but I’m hoping it’s a squirrel;-)
How timely. My little kid is turning 8 next month and she wanted Lego. Naturally those insulting “Lego Friends” pieces of crap were right out, but she wanted Lego with “mermaids, or princesses” — in short, she wants to play with heroic, fantastic female characters.
There is exactly ONE available set with ONE princess and ONE available set with mermaids. The only themed sets with female characters are large expensive ones. The only basic sets with female figures are the “pink box” sets you describe, which have the pink and purple blocks and build a twee wittle house with a twee wittle garden for the female minifig to inhabit.
I am so frustrated.
This.
And, furthermore, Walton, stop assuming that people who disagree with you must be über-privileged racist whatever-ist assholes because they’re not as disprivileged as the people you defend. Reminds me of nothing so much as Ivy League kids who sneer at the kids who go into the military in order to have any opportunities whatsoever as “baby killers.” Must be nice…
We had a squirrel in the basement once that got in through the chimney. It caused a huge mess, knocked over a bunch of glass bottles, and wouldn’t leave even when the door was open.
I’d take a rat family any day. They at least know how to live inside houses.
Okay. Walton, I don’t know if you’ll read this, but I’ll give it a shot anyway.
As I’m sure you’ve noticed, there seems to be a lot of communication breakdowns when it comes to certain issues you feel passionately about.
One problem is that well-balanced view business. It would be so helpful if you strove to achieve that more often.
Another problem is one that will be remedied eventually, and that is not having a lot of life experience in various areas. This tends to keep you very tightly in a sphere of ideals and academics, whereas a lot of the people you’re talking to are living waaaaaaaaay down on the ground. I think this is where a lot of communication breakdown takes place.
One thing I think that really interferes with that well-balanced view business is that guilt complex you carry around like a teddy bear. There are times when I think you fight so hard for criminals and assorted nasty assholes is because you think that might have been you at one point. Yes, okay, you were a nasty snot when you were in your teens. That’s over, you’ve grown, you’ve changed. I imagine that’s how you want to see everyone else, too, that everyone else is capable of that. Sometimes that’s true, Walton, but for every case like that, there’s one where that’s not true and it won’t ever be true.
I don’t think anyone dislikes you or disrespects you because you have ideals and you’re passionate about them. The world needs people like you, without question. What it comes down to at this point is tempering. You aren’t there yet, you haven’t been down in the dirt, let alone down in the dirt for ages on end.
Your heart and mind are in the right places, but at this point, they are also at a remove from many people’s life experiences.
Now, get the fuck off the net for a while, talk to friends, have something decadent to eat, just go fuck around for a while.
The Pseudoscientific Method.
Hey, I’ve been away. I came by originally to rant about Obama giving way to the RCC, but then realised that there was no reason to rant, and couldn’t help noticing the ongoing discussion. So before I go away again, I’d like to chime in:
When I first came across the Derbyshire case, my reaction was WTF, don’t they have probation in the UK? In Germany, the Volksverhetzung law has more lenient sentences for distribution of printed material, with three years max, while incitement to hatred in general is five years max. The 1986 Public Order Act has a max sentence of seven years, if I read it correctly. So probably the same case would have ended with milder sentences in Germany, possibly with probation. A death threat, after all, is more serious that denigration of a person based on their race (“all XX are lazy pigs that should go home ASAP”).
Horst Mahler, a lawyer and ex-RAF member (the German RAF), later became a Neo-Nazi and was first convicted for inciting hatred against Jews and foreigners. The death threats against judges, prosecutors and members of parliament ensured that he got a prison sentence of nine months (having been an ex-terroist, it wasn’t his first conviction either). Later he gave the Hitler salute in prison, after getting out he was interviewed by a prominent German-Jewish journalist for Vanity Fair, whom he greeted with “Heil Hitler”, and then also denied to Holocaust, in the interview, for attribution. All these incidents earned him prison sentences of 12 years total.
To those wondering how to establish protected classes: these things are governed by human rights standards. EU member nations have joined various human rights treaties which also obligate them to protect minorities and fight against discrimination. This works quite well, with ONE EXCEPTION:
There is a potential problem for atheists here with respect to blasphemy laws. While many blasphemy laws have been weakened greatly, some of it can still be prosecuted under incitement to hatred laws. Or in the case of Germany, blasphemy is only liable if it done in such a way as to “disturb public order” (max penalty three years, so less than “incitement of hatred”). A woman was convicted who had distributed pamphlets saying that “the Christian churches are among the biggest criminal gangs in the world” as well “rather a maculate contraception than an immaculate conception” and “masochism can be cured” with a symbol of a crossed out cross.
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
WTF? Walton isn’t telling you to move, he’s merely saying that preventing others from moving here (wherever here is) by means of a racist border regime is wrong. FWIW, he’s stated several times that he’s not from an affluent background.
I should try to keep up with TET! I posted links to the three cases Teh kiloGraeme@609 posted on the “double standard” thread as vaguely relevant, before coming here.
The Sailor:
None taken. I’ve been taking care of the Wrongway clan* on our property for years. They stay outside though. :D
*The family of fox squirrels on our property, named after the first one to show up, who eventually mated and sired the rest. Clumsiest damn thing you ever saw. Falls out of trees and off the roof on a regular basis.
One of my cats is particularly sneaky about slipping outside when I’m letting my dog out in the morning. She never wants to come back in before I go off to work, so I have to leave the garage door cracked. A few months ago she developed a habit of bringing in a nice chipmunk to play with, but she seemed to get bored of them awfully quickly.
Those things are really good at hiding under furniture. I never noticed that there was a chipmunk in the house until a couple of days later, when my dog was suddenly very interested in an appliance or cabinet that she usually doesn’t care about. My method for catching the little guys involved an empty bucket, some bits of granola, and a yardstick; I went two for three on successful catch-and-releases.
This, Walton. I’d personally expand on it a little and say if you truly want to help things, this is an indispensable tool. You need to really get in amongst the people you want to help and advocate for. Really get in there.
I’ve smoked weed with the homeless and mentally ill, with the outcast and overlooked of society. With gay people, with black people, with about a thousand and one native people, and with huge terrifying potentially violent people (as in, very violent natured people with reputations a mile long, not just scary looking), and I’ve listened to them talk because I’m often too shy (or a little terrified) to interject too much. I’m not claiming any kind of expertise or enlightened state here, just that you learn things firsthand from them.
It’s a terrifying business, but I honestly believe that for what you want to do with yourself, you need to do more of this.
I also wish you wouldn’t take it so personally and get so upset. Most of us like you Walton. We don’t want you to fuck off.
But like others have said, take a breather and think on these things.
Hey all,
I had work this week. My first gainful employment in four years. It was odd. How do people focus when passive aggression is the tenor of their environment?
Anyways, it reminded me of how divorced I have become from most people’s lives, I am reflecting and hoping I haven’t done to poorly by anyone.
I wrote a lot of my D.Phil thesis on that phenomenon. At that time, all the work on human wayfinding seemed to assume people always planned their journeys. I ended up arguing this mostly happened when they knew an intermediate amount about the route: if you know almost nothing, there are still search strategies you can use to reach your goal – like in grid cities, going east-west as far as you can, or until it’s somehow obvious you’ve gone too far, then one block north, then west-east and so on, and as a route becomes familiar, you can mostly “outsource” remembering it to the environment itself – and it becomes a classic behaviorist stimulus-response chain. This can lead to the sort of automatic route-following you mention, or to a poor route getting “frozen” into place because you never question whether there might be a better one (e.g. if you learn routes A-B and B-C, you may automatically go from A to C via B). I think it was an advantage that I’m bad at finding my way around, so I could introspect a lot on how I did it.
Check this father-of-the-year out, and all the fucking douchnozzles clapping away.
(/delurk)
Poorly. Worked there for 4 years.
Passive aggression was the baritone and the soprano there too.
(The alto part was played by actual threats.)
(/lurk)
also, some good news: ACTA seems to be stalled now. German Foreign Office retracts directive to sign it after the Minister of Justice (one of the few liberal politicians in Germany with guts) signalled her reservations over the agreement.
I think this is also an effect of the SOPA debate spilling over to Europe. A great example of international activism.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/02/10/germany-wont-sign-acta-at-least-not-yet/
(Of course that doesn’t mean it’s dead yet, Germany and the 3-4 other EU members might sign it still. But the European Parliament is poised to vote on it by June 2012, there is still time for trying to build up opposition there)
Jesus, that’s scary shit, Brownian. Congrats, dude, you’re a bullying asshole who destroys your daughter’s property. Can’t imagine why she’d try to hide any thoughts she has from him. Oh no, using curse words, totally a great reason to show off what an abusive ass one can be. The charging her for bullets is an especially bullshit touch.
@717: All I can say is I hope this man’s daughter remembers this action when she is deciding which nursing home to place him in. Given that he’s a smoker, she should be making that decision soon.
Brownian: I saw that, or at least as much of it as I can stand. Is it any wonder his daughter hates his stupid ass?
If there’s any justice at all she’ll move out at 18 or earlier and the only time he sees her again is when she takes him to the cheapest old folk’s home she can find.
+1 Dianne
Hello, kittens!
Still in job search mode and exhausted because it’s been a week of intereviewsinterviewsinterviews.
I’m a little brokenheated at the moment because I was up for a completely awesome job with an awesome tech company, and even though I totally got it, I ended up having to pass because the pay was C-R-A-P and my car dropped dead, leaving me no way to get there..
I’m cursed, I tell you, CURSED!!!!
So, how is everyone else? Been playing nice while I was away? *wink wink*
Brownian:
How adorable. Asswipe.
I only ranted about my mother once. I did it in secret, when I was 10. I wrote one sentence in my diary: I hate my mother. That was after she made me sit at the dinner table all night because I wouldn’t eat kidney beans and then I had to go to school in the morning.
I came home from school to find A in my bedroom, with my diary open to a certain page. She committed me. Again. 3 months that time.
It certainly learned me. It learned me to have no relationship with her at all.
Brownian,
Umm …wow. So, that’s what guns are for? He sure showed her! I’m afraid of her father too, for her even, if she doesn’t fear him already.
In other news…
Bachus being investigated for insider trading
Walton, for what it’s worth, sorry. I was following it as a linear conversation and thought Ing’s comment was related. Also, for what its worth, enjoy your weekend.
I skipped out on my father’s funeral for much the same reason. How did it feel to die alone, asshole? Like justice?
Ahem. Anyway, this is what I wrote to the mob of cheering morons. I don’t know if it’ll get published:
“Oh, spare us the sanctimonious speeches about how rotten kids are today while you walked six miles to school uphill both ways in a blizzard.
We remember those speeches verbatim because we heard them from the previous generation complaining about you.
You’re content to clap over this unhinged idiot, but not one of you would dare do the same thing to your kids because underneath your guttural braying you know this is completely disproportionate to a teenager complaining about chores (and if you claim you never did so, you’re either still dealing with the psychological impacts of your overly abusive parents or you’re a shame-faced liar.)
I hope this mob is still laughing and jeering when this girl takes daddy’s message that anger is best dealt with by bullets not words and comes back to pull a Menendez on this trigger-happy tyrant.”
Yup. I certainly learned a lot from my abusive father. For one, I learned that while he excelled at dishing them out, the fucker couldn’t take a punch worth shit. (To be fair, he wasn’t expecting one as he was trying to choke me at the time. But what did he think I was spending all that time at the gong fu club learning to do?)
I don’t know very much about the law (and nothing about European law), and have difficulty comprehending the language that laws are often written in, which is why I asked these questions:
Of course, no one is responsible for enlightening me, but I think these are questions that other people may have. Thx pelamun, even if your explanation was not directed at me.
Walton, there is not a fucking thing wrong with you. No. There isn’t. Please continue to make reasoned arguments to the best of your ability* regardless of ignorant bullshit thrown your way by people who don’t seem to be contributing all that much anyway. Go enjoy a diet soda, and come back whenever you’re ready.
*Which is fucking ample.
Holy shit, that father is a bullying waste of fucking skin. I hope my comment gets approved, but I made sure to address any teens or children currently living with someone like him and point out it was NOT OKAY to be treated like that and they should NOT feel bad about being enraged about it and loathing anyone who treats them that way.
It takes a very special kind of shitsmear loser to get so much satisfaction out of picking on someone who is factually and legally vulnerable to them.
My titanium fang isn’t itching, if that is what you mean. ;)
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/10/american-kids-of-immigrants-denied-food-stamps-in-alabama/
Wish I wasn’t so late for the freedom of speech vs individual safety debate. Could have been fun.
Mine are carbon steel.
I try to oil them regularly, but keeping up with the rust is an unholy pain in the ass.
While I am torn between advocating free speech and protecting people from hate speech, I do have one comment. I both disagree and agree somewhat with Walton. My agreement is on the grounds that sending some bigoted people to prison could be _counterproductive_. (Hear me out before someone reflexively screams that I am in any way defending hate speech or condoning gay teen suicide.) If prisons in the U.K. are anything like those in the U.S., then this would be like sending the bigots to advanced classes in hatred and violence. The worst prisons are breeding grounds for racist criminal gangs that teach their members to hate harder, fight more dangerously, and make criminal connections after they leave. Instead of a safer society, making hate speech an automatically incarcerable offense takes us a temporary step towards the appearance of safety and in reality may create harder criminals, making for a more dangerous society in the end. Is this scenario correct? I’m not sure; it’s plausible to me. I do not have a recipe for fixing this potential problem, unfortunately, but I think for a first offense, probation with mandatory community service might help instead of harden minds.
Brownian:
That had to be good to know, or at least to find out. I never hit anyone, but I did think about committing homicide quite a bit when I was young.
I do remember the day I graduated HS, I was 17, went home (I was living with my grandparents then – that included the joy of living with the person who had raped me for years), walked into my room and started carrying out suitcases. There was all the supposed shock and all that shit and of course, the panicked call to A. She managed to show up as I was tossing my stuff into a car. I spun around and said “Don’t say one fucking word to me. I had no choice with you. You have damaged me beyond repair and if I could have come up with the perfect murder, you’d be dead. Goodbye.” Got in the car and left. Never looked back.
SlutWalk is tomorrow! But it’s going to be cold D:
kristinc,
Check out the Lego online store. You can buy lots of individual parts, including (sometimes, it seems to vary) mini-figs (i.e. “people”) and their components. Over the years from various sets we’ve acquire a whole army of people including girls/women from various sets. So they do exist out of the newly pink-ified sets. My son showed an interest in some of the parts included in the pink sets, and I don’t even think the pinkness weirded him out too much. But the odd scaled figures (not the standard size, too doll-like) completely put him off, lego-purist that he is (“Dad, that’s a MegaBlock, yuck! Take it out.”).
Starstuff,
So dress warmly. It’s not like a winter coat will keep asshats from slutshaming.
;)
@ Dhorvath
Very true.
I just spotted the most gorgeous orange streaked bird outside the window under my hedge. Turns out it’s a Bullock’s Oriole. Very exotic looking guy!
Jerry,
it’s not like incitement to hatred is bound to lead to prison sentences. There is a sentencing range, and especially with first time offenders, probation and fines are normal (in Germany).
I was at first bewildered by the relatively stiff prison sentences, and it seems that the UK has a more severe sentencing regime, but do not forget, what they were distributing were death threats after all. Had they written things like “Gay people are an abomination in the eye of the lord” or whatever, but stopped short at issuing death threats, they might still have been liable for incitement to hatred, but probably would have not gone to jail.
(In Germany things are muddier. Discrimination based on sexual grounds has been barred in the 1999 EU Treaty, and Germany has enacted laws reflecting that. However, there are differing opinions whether LGBT people constitute a “specific segment of the populace” in terms of the incitement to racial hatred law, with some conservatives openly demanding their right for “negative freedom of speech”. However, as various international organisations have been making steps towards recognising LGBT people as a protected class, legal opinion in Germany could soon change. – or the German parliament could amend the law accordingly, as Westminster has done)
NEW THREAD!
Kristinc, ooh, I love Orioles! We get them here in the Spring. They’re fond of oranges. I cut them in half and impale them on a nail in the deck railing.