I had not realized how stupidly bigoted the people of Cranston, Rhode Island were becoming. After losing a fight against the Constitution, being slapped down for demanding the right to maintain a blatantly sectarian, religious prayer in a public school, they’ve been threatening and persecuting Jessica Ahlquist, the atheist who was brave enough to bring the law to bear on the promotion of religious views in a school.
Now a new development: the Freedom From Religion Foundation wanted to send flowers to Ahlquist: none of the florists in Cranston would do it. They had to find a florist in a more distant town to do the deed.
It’s all shockingly petty and discriminatory.
Here’s the list of cowards and bigots, four florists who would not deliver a bouquet to a teenage girl because she’s an atheist.
If you want to contact them and express your displeasure, please remember to be civil.
I did a video on State Senator Moura, who attacked Jessica Ahlquist on Twitter, and would end up treating the idiom “foot in mouth” as a threat so severe, she contacted the Capitol and state police forces about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQoJ8q_vpYQ
The level of hatred and stupidity in that area is astounding.
And when they found out out of town who agreed to do it, the good Christian bigots threatened HIM until he backed out.
The War of the Roses
I got disgusted enough reading the tweets that I decided to write them a new prayer–and thanks to the magic of Photoshop, even put it on a banner. They won’t be able to hang it in the gym (for so many reasons, but it’s a more honest expression of their faith, I think.
Why I am an atheist:
See above. That is all.
Don’t you just want to fall to your knees and praise the god these people worship? What exemplars of love and tolerance! Assholes.
Being refused flowers is among the milder actions this tremendously brave young woman has had to deal with. There have been threats of physical violence.
I’m looking forward to hearing her speak at the Reason Rally in March. Sometimes living near D. C. has its advantages.
The (Cranston?) newspaper has a poll on whether the decision should be appealed; last I looked, “No” was 79.4%.
The more these bigots show their colors, the more proud I am of Jessica. The story becomes more remarkable the more the curtain is pulled back to reveal what she was (is) up against.
I’ve also been following her on Twitter since the decision was handed down. As a father, I hope my children grow up to be like her. As a 30-something individual, I hope I do as well.
Ed Brayton ask for suggestion on a title for a documentary on christian reactions and the best one which seems to sum this up is: I’m a Christian I hope you Burn in Hell.
BTW @feralboy12 – well done!
They’re looking so very secure in their religion.
Well you know, the Constitution’s very boring to read, so I don’t suppose they’ve bothered with it…
Glen Davidson
PZ, you really ought to move to Canada, to escape the caustic influence of the religious nutjobs. You’d find it far less stressful.
I guess Jessica & family should do that too. Canada really ought to grant asylum to rationalists seeking to escape from religious nutjobs.
This un-named Warwick floral shop should be revealed so they can experience the negative attention for not delivering the flowers.
It’s all
shockinglypredictably petty and discriminatory.There, I fixed it for you.
Some help with the idiot poll there would be appreciated.
Glen Davidson:
-You’d think they would embrace a full reading of the bible, since it’s got so many vibrant, exciting stories in it (genocide, first born killing, ritual sacrifice…kids stuff). Nothing as bland as the Constitution. But no, they can’t be bothered to read that. It makes one wonder about the reading comprehension skills of bigots like these.
I still can’t believe no florist would send flowers. Per Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranston,_Rhode_Island
-Third largest, but with the bigots coming out of the woodworks, it’s not looking terribly progressive, or even tolerably ‘nice’
http://www.greenwoodflower.com/
The shop in Warwick RI that refused to deliver. According to the Providence Journal:
“No matter what I do, I get punched in the face,” said Daryal Romano, the owner of Greenwood Flower & Garden. Romano said he decided to nix the delivery to Ahlquist after customers who heard about the delivery threatened to stop doing business with him.
Coward
I’d honestly love to see some big name christian apologist or bishop etc speak out against the threats made by their follow christians. Far as I can see though not a word. This is about what I’ve come to expect from religious love and compassion for their fellow man (and women).
Yup…this is my state. Hey to be fair, it’s not only non-Catholics that they despise…they’re also extremely racist.
Yet, upon making your way up to Federal Hill…the mob capital of New England, you’ll see this lovely mural paying homage to a bunch of legendary murderers and thugs. They have no problem with this at all. After all, those guys loved Jesus.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightlypaintedpixels/19634224/
And thi is the wonderful company in Connecticut that deserves as much love and business as you can throw it’s way.
http://www.facebook.com/GlimpseofGaia?ref=ts&sk=wall
At the very least like their Facebook page.
Oh I’m certain those shops wanted to send flowers, it’s just they were occupied BURNING WITCHES!!!
What next? Threatening the pizza guy who dares to brave christian wrath to take her something to eat?
Threatening the pizza guy who dares to brave christian wrath to take her something to eat?
might I suggest an order from Hell Pizza?
http://hellpizza.com/nz/
Might take a while to get there.
We should be pushing for police investigation of threats of violence against her. Criminal threatening is a real, prosecutable crime, and many threats and calls for violence have come from, for example, non-anonymous Twitter accounts.
It’s amazing how predictable they are. Calling them meat robots would be an exaggeration.
Fundie xians never, ever miss a chance to demonstrate their complete intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
Xians, creating atheists since 33 CE.
Would a complaint lodged on Yelp about these business be appropriate?
‘Duh’ moment. After taking a good look at the prayer mural, it became crushingly obvious to me how all the people shrieking about its removal have never actually read what it says. Yeah, I’m slow.
They’re doing the last one. And that’s it.
The irony meter just vaporized.
Ironymeters-R-Us have refused to accept any more of my orders, due to mass stock detonation.
…meep…
The Cranston florists sound like they’ve been plucking a bloom while chanting “Bigotry, cowardice.”, then applying the sentiment attached to the last petal. Not an ounce of courage from any of them.
What’s next? If her family rents, will they cancel the lease? Will restaurants refuse to serve her? This is unbefuckinglievable.
When I lived in Rhode Island, a particular accent was referred to as a “Nasal Cranston Whine.” I had no idea the whining was not only ubiquitous, but abusive and intolerant as well.
This is getting ridiculous more and more. This is not only bigoted, it is simply childish and petty beyond measure.
Sometimes I yearn for the times back before internet was born. I thought religious belief is rare occurence not only here, but worldwide. I lived under the delusion, that rationality and sciende already won their battle against stupidity and bigotry. How much happier I was then than I am now, when I can see that bigots not only are not minority on the global scale, but that they actually significantly prevail in some places.
Ignorance really is bliss.
Zinc Avenger:
-I bartend at a sports bar called Helen Back in NW Florida that specializes in pizza. I’d love to be able to send her some pizza. Screw all the cowards who give in to bigotry.
I’d honestly love to see some big name christian apologist or bishop etc speak out against the threats made by their follow christians. Far as I can see though not a word.
good point.
I bet there are a few, and the media just isn’t paying them much attention.
OTOH, I might think that it would stir even further controversy and sell more papers if they DID pit a local minister against this mob.
hmm.
certainly an opportunity for media exposure for someone…
if it doesn’t happen, I will recall this as yet another case on point when xian bumpkins come up to me and try to tell me that “most xians aren’t bigoted and hateful!”
riiiiiigghhhhtttt…
Been thinking this out. Perhaps it is more appropriate to call up these shops and attempt to place the order. If refused post up a negative review.
Ignorance really is bliss.
…but knowledge is power.
use it.
Did anybody else look at that banner and think that it looked strangely like comic sans?
There are some real assholes living in Cranston.
I noticed your banner was in comic sans.
Ironymeters-R-Us have refused to accept any more of my orders, due to mass stock detonation.
it’s almost enough to make one think the complete ironysplosion is evidence of a very pissed off deity that actually works though use of irony.
Don’t worry; we’ve got atheists out there who insist that we can have the good of religion without all this bad stuff.
So libertarians. come and explain why it would be ok to let people do this to minorities?
Here are all you mean atheists complaining about the store keepers. No wonder they hate us. Now here is an idea, send a nice accommodating atheist out to talk to them. This will show them the errors of their ways and they will end up being our greatest allies.
Just realized that I do not have her address and I afraid to ask for it on the internet because of safety concerns for this young valiant. Sigh
@Trent
I’m sure you can find it from one of the nice Xians who are publicizing it.
Just loop this.
So libertarians. come and explain why it would be ok to let people do this to minorities?
after taking libertarianism 101 via the intertubes, I’ll take a stab at it. Let me know how close you think this would be:
[start lib-gib]
It’s not OK. That’s not the point, the point is, while it might occur locally and temporarily, market forces would mark out the bad behavior via people refusing to do business with the companies exhibiting the undesirable behavior.
See Trent’s post at #31!
[end lib-gib]
now, did I leave enough holes in my screed to drive trucks through? I think it mimics what I’ve seen libertarians post on social issues pretty well.
Rhode Island was always sort of an obscure place.
But at least now they are famous. It seems to be filled with uneducated, hate filled morons.
Whatever. What is there to do in RI besides hate, walk around on their knuckles, and babble a lot?
I’m sure there are some normal people there. They must keep a low profile for their own safety.
PS Although I’ve driven through it a few times long ago. Don’t remember much. It seemed to be flat and had a lot of small rundown looking towns and that was about it.
@trent1492:
The Secular Student Alliance has her information and has sent her treats before. Perhaps sending a donation to them for them to get her something in your name would work?
Jessica would have the right to hire Blackwater or any other mercenary forces to protect her from the hordes of xian crucaders. After the battle, the townspeople of Cranston would have the right to send both sides the $20 billion bill for recontruction.
Unless tactical nuclear weapons were used.
Whatever. What is there to do in RI besides hate, walk around on their knuckles, and babble a lot?
Drink Beer!
sing it with me!
I’m not sure how hard I’d be on the florists: They have to make a living, and it looks like they’d be run out of town if they had anything to do with it. Sure, it’s cowardly, but it may also be pragmatic.
I posted a review on Yelp. I wasn’t the first, so far all have been negative.
@JoeBuddha: Including those not in town?
I’d say hammer these guys, and hammer them hard*. If there’s no consequences to bigotry and supporting bigotry, it will never go away.
* I don’t mean physically or anything illegal. Bad PR, e-mail campaigns, etc.
That, right there, is probably the single biggest flaw in libertarian economic theory, and the biggest reason for rejecting libertarian prescriptions on the subject of private-sector discrimination.
The libertarian theory on this issue, as outlined inter alia by Milton Friedman, is that it is in the best interests of a rational business-owner to sell products and services to anyone willing to pay, irrespective of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Thus, in a competitive free market, non-bigoted businesses will be more successful than bigoted ones, because bigots are arbitrarily limiting their customer base and thus reducing their revenues.
It sounds plausible, but it doesn’t actually work. Because it doesn’t account for the fact that, in a society where bigotry is ubiquitous, non-bigoted business owners may themselves be punished by the market, because bigots can threaten to stop doing business with them. For the libertarian model to work, it isn’t enough for the business-owners to be acting rationally; the customers have to be acting rationally, too. Even if the business-owner hirself is a non-bigot, if bigots outnumber non-bigots among hir customers, xe may have an incentive to discriminate in order to pander to hir bigoted customers. And hence the libertarian predictions on this issue are not borne out in the real world, because they don’t account for the irrational motivations that often drive human behaviour.
Mr. Ed @ 8:
“Love Thy Neighbor, Much?”
=====================
Dick the Damned @ 11:
And give this country up to them??? Better to stay and fight.
=====================
We Are Ing @ 38:
Explanation: This wouldn’t have happened because there would have been no public schools in which to display the prayer in the first place.
It’s not just the bigotry, it’s the sheer unbridled arrogance that this would not in any way come back to get them… or that they might be wrong (even though i bet they know fuck all about the case) and the complete lack of humanity/WWJD in their actions and it’s consequences.
I know you’re not supposed to be all “i’m smart because i’m atheist” but man, these people are dumb. Good old fashioned, can’t see past their own upturned nose, dumb.
I created an account just to comment on this post (daily reader/lurker). As a native Rhode Islander, this makes me SICK. Roger Williams is rolling in his grave, should the dead do such things (HP Lovecraft is too…his childhood home in Providence – down the street from my apartment – is now a Starbucks!!!1). Whatever happened to “No man shall be required to worship or maintain a worship against his will”? Williams was a champion for the separation of church and state, and founded RI as a place where there was no state religion and citizens were free to worship (or not) as they please. Williams makes me proud to be a Rhode Islander, but this Cranston West HS crap makes my heart sink.
@raven – you sound like you’re from New York. ;-) There’s plenty to do here. Hell, half of NY and CT come up and spend the entire summer in RI because their beaches are too polluted. Providence is fun, Newport is beautiful, we’re and hour from Boston (on a good day) and three hours from NYC, give or take. Check out the latest issue of Vogue, with Meryl Streep on the cover…that’s RI! [/promo] It’s not all bad… [/notruescotsman]
Where I used to live, we had the same battle as in Cranston.
Around 35 years ago. The fundie xians lost and lost bigtime. The high school won’t even have a “holiday tree” even though they are perfectly legal and much appreciated by the Pagans. A lot of seculars watch the school pretty closely even to this day.
The fundies set up their own private school. It’s not too bad but not too great either. What it is is expensive for an average education. IIRC, it is something like $7,000 per year per kid. If you have a few kids going there, that gets tough rather quickly.
Personally, I’d be too worried about someone spitting in my food (or worse) to order out. I can’t really blame the florist or call him a coward since either way he would have lost business. He just went with the option that was less costly. It was still wrong, but it was even more wrong for people to threaten a boycott if he fulfilled the order.
@Ichthyic #30
You mean like how moderate muslims decry terrorism? I’ve seen more of that than bishops and people of power in christian churches decry the hatred done by their followers.
@ Trent
That’s a great idea. We should all send Jessica some flowers.
Let’s Pharyngulate some florists.
I’m going to try to find Jessica’s address (if I can’t find it I’ll use the school’s address). Then place an order with a couple of the local florists and make them aware that if they don’t take my order I’ll use Glimpse of Gaia in Connecticut.
I wonder how much business they’re really prepared to turn down.
There is a reason why Quahog was put in Rhode Island by the creators of Family Guy
And place an order for some flowers for Jessica while you’re about it.
Just be cautious. It may be a good idea in theory, but who the hell wants to be buried in four hundred pounds of posies?
The poll at http://www.wpri.com/dpp/rhode_show/the-buzz-report-florists-refuse-deliveries-to-ahlquist is still not moving. It’s at top left, click on “Poll” tab next to “video” and “Photo” tabs, otherwise you won’t see it. Currently at 63% to 34% in favour of bigotry.
So, have they found a flower shop that would deliver? Because I had this silly idea that we could support a righteous florist by sending let’s say some cactuses en masse to the not so nice townfolk. Hell, even I, a guy from Finland, would gladly pitch in. Any suggestions what the card should read?
She could donate them to nursing homes, shelters, and hospitals.
raven’s the Village of Pharyngula’s idiot.
@Brownian
That’s true I guess, so let’s send them to Jessica, care of the school.
Oh, and another poll
http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2012/01/cranston-floris.html#floristpoll
You mean like how moderate muslims decry terrorism? I’ve seen more of that than bishops and people of power in christian churches decry the hatred done by their followers.
yeah, I think that has less to do with dogma and doctrine of each religion, than it does with scale and extent of violence involved in the attacks.
I’m sure if the locals had burned her house to the ground with her and her family in it, and massacred every atheist in town, there *might* be a few pastors decrying it.
as it is, they get to remain silent as long as the threats are limited to speech instead of actions.
It should be a wake-up call to these pastors that they are doing something WRONG, when an entire community, and its elected representatives, can demonize a child for acting in the actual best interests of all.
but, it won’t. Not until, as I said, it’s far too late.
She could donate them to nursing homes, shelters, and hospitals.
that wouldn’t work.
what would work is if those interested in doing this, set up a fund to send flowers, in Jessica’s name, to nursing homes, shelters, and hospitals in the area.
that wouldn’t be hard, and it would send a great message I think.
Explanation: This wouldn’t have happened because there would have been no public schools in which to display the prayer in the first place.
heh. winner.
If a libertard wouldn’t say that, they’d be thinking it at least.
If you don’t think the local yokel florist franchises will really give a rat’s ass if a bunch of out-of-staters won’t buy their flowers, you could also just contact their parent companies.
For Greenwood Flower that would be FTD: http://www.ftd.com/
For Twins Florist and Florist Express it’s: http://www.teleflora.com/
Both companies should know that their franchises (franchisees? franchisers? whatever) are turning away business due to religious discrimination.
Do they sell dead porcupines?
How would anyone know if they had sent the flowers. Its a private business transaction. Just ask not to be named… it’s not really necessary to mention the flower company when someone sends you flowers.
Can I also say that I would like to be buried in four hundred pounds of posies.
It doesn’t matter who you send them to. Her, the cowardly florists, hospitals, her school… just make sure her name is there, either as a recipient or sender… let’s make Rhode Island a florist’s dream/nightmare..(depending).
Flowers with Jessica’s name attached need to be flying every which way.
“And all those who refused to accept the Mark of the Herp-a-Derp were cast out, forbidden to buy or sell.”
Delivery vehicles ordinarily are clearly identified by the business’s name, and the person making the delivery would be identifiable especially if the local media provided high-profile coverage of the event.
However, if the RI National Guard were to become involved…
For Brownian @60 and Grumps @74
“Someone is Sending Me Flowers”
(cut/paste to browser)
youtube.com/watch?v=iHEed_p8bUc
PS:
the last line of the song is cut off:
“I wish they would stop sending flowers C.O.D.”
Is it me, or do Twins Florist and Floral Express have very similar sites?
Ah, both TeleFlora, I see.
I would imagine TeleFlora would like to know that the flower shops are turning away out-of-town customers. That’s a direct hit on their business model.
Ichthyic:
Oh, that made me look up how far Inferno Pizza‘s reach extends. It’s only local– no getting a pizza to RI from here.
I wouldn’t be too hard on Greenwood – they’re the ones who originally agreed then changed their minds after receiving christian threats.
But hammer Twins Florist – they’re the ones who first refused with a bigoted message to the sender “I WILL NOT DELIVER TO THIS PERSON”.
Fuck Twins Florist. Fuck their christian terrorist business practices.
Their franchiser, teleflora, has a customer service complaint line. Flood teleflora with calls and emails about their horrible bigoted anti-customer service.
ricardodivali
I take it you’ve never actually lived in a small town.
There is some form of quantum entanglement at work that allows the inhabitants to simultaneously and instantaneously be aware of anything that happens.
Gah! How dare they sully my good name.
No relation, I hasten to add.
Whether they are fanatical fundies or cowards in desperate need of a figurative spinal column, I have no time for businesses that would so casually throw in with bigots against a teenage girl whose only ‘crimes’ are not buying into the popular delusion and instead upholding US law.
Given the history of the denial of services to politically and socially marginalised groups in US history, this is particularly disturbing. One wonders if it might be florists today, but public transport and healthcare tomorrow…
so far feralboy @3 is winning…
I wish I was this smart
Heh, I was trying to think of florists here in CT, thinking they could just send her flowers that way. Imagine my delight when I read the post about Glimpse of Gaia!
I’m sure some stick-in-the-mud-and-up-the-ass customers have already decided to stop doing business with them. But they’ve likely gained some new customers in the process.
Here’s a song for Jessica Ahlquist.
Friendly Atheist has a posting about a college fund started for Jessica – a donation there might help her out more than burying her in flowers.
#54 megs226 I read about Roger Williams (1603-1683) on some blog somewhere this week. The guy was KICKASS!!
He was a theologian who left a Puritan colony because of their religious persecution of non-Puritans; and founded Providence Plantation, RI as a refuge for religious minorities. He started the first Baptist church in America.
From Wikipedia “He declared that the state could legitimately concern itself only with matters of civil order, but not religious belief. The state had no business in trying to enforce the “first Table” of the Ten Commandments, those first commandments that dealt with the relationship between God and persons. The state must confine itself to the commandments that dealt with the relations between people: murder, theft, adultery, lying, honoring parents, and so forth. He regarded any effort by the state to dictate religion or promote any particular religious idea or practice to be “forced worship.” And he colorfully declared that “forced worship stinks in the nostrils of God.”
He wrote a plea for religious liberty: http://www.constitution.org/bcp/religlib.htm
Maybe the good people of R.I. (and some Southern Baptist Convention members) should study their history.
And I would like to see some atheist group put that quote on a billboard in R.I.
So, why not a lawsuit against these florists for refusing public service based on religion?
ACLU?
If you did not grow up in the United States, please disregard the rest of my comment.
If you did, are you seriously telling me that they didn’t teach you about Roger Williams in history class?!?!?!?!? I don’t remember what grade I learned about him in, but it was when we we learning the history of all the original 13 colonies, so before high school.
I bet Jessica is just dying to convert to Christianity after all this. And hopefully not dying as she’s converting.
I’m sure any number of us within train distance would have delivered the flowers on behalf of the FFRF!
I propose American Atheists hold the 2013 National Convention in Cranston!
are you seriously telling me that they didn’t teach you about Roger Williams in history class?!?!?!?!?
Well, I grew up in the CA primary and secondary system, and I’m seriously telling you they never taught me about Roger Williams.
However, they did spend some time on Mill, which was more than sufficient to give anyone with half a clue why there was good reason to fear the tyranny of the majority.
Can’t say that the Cranston religious freaks make their god look very powerful.
1. God is apparently completely unable to deal with a 15 year old girl who says he doesn’t exist.
2. God needs to have a prayer banner on the wall at a public school for some mysterious reason. I suppose he is afraid that if people stop believing in him, he stops existing. He’s right on that one for once.
I suspect the fundies are overreacting because on some level, they know or suspect the Cosmic Sky Fairy doesn’t really exist. No one has seen him in millennia and the xian god can’t do anything tangible in the real world.
FFRF says they are doing so.
Maybe the good people of R.I. (and some Southern Baptist Convention members) should study their history.
if they weren’t so ignorant to begin with, the vast majority wouldn’t have ended up endearing themselves to a christian cult to begin with.
Americans have any number of historical privileges that have slowly, and properly, begun to erode away; race and sex being two of them that have at least been recognized and chipped away at.
religious privilege is also being chipped away at, finally, but…
the privilege of ignorance seems to be GAINING ground.
They did but it was a sentence or two. Roger William founded Rhode Island to get away from the Puritans.
They didn’t mention that he fled Massachusetts in fear of his life. Back then, being the wrong xian could get you killed.
Everyone knows that the Puritans hung 25 alleged witches at Salem. They also hung a few Unitarians and Quakers for heresy. This was the height of American theocracy. You can tell by all the dead bodies hanging from the gallows.
I’m afraid I was very uncivil in my customer feedback to the florists.
It certainly seems that there are a whole lot of people in RI who never got the message.
Having listened to parts of the school meeting and read far too many ill-informed comments on Rhode Island news websites, I conclude that the anti-banner forces are privileged Christians who consider any attempt to stop them from flaunting their religion to be an affront. They’re the Men’s Rights Activists of their religion and they aren’t interested in any fact, consideration of sympathy, or rule of constitutional law that contradicts their opinion.
. They’re the Men’s Rights Activists of their religion and they aren’t interested in any fact, consideration of sympathy, or rule of constitutional law that contradicts their opinion.
yup.
I’m surprised it has taken this long to really recognize what the actual problem with religion in the US has been all along:
the US has given it privilege for hundreds of years!
it shouldn’t surprise people that xians get defensive about removing a long standing, even if illegal, privilege, just like it should have surprised us during the civil rights movement that bigots didn’t want to give up their white privilege that they and their families were born and grew up with, either.
I do wonder if more traction would be gained fighting religious influence in the US if indeed it was attacked for what it is; just another case of illegal privilege that needs to be put right.
not saying nobody is doing this, but if it was presented as a single, unified, idea, I think it would gain some power.
Raven, I suppose I shouldn’t be pissed at RI mockery considering what I’ve said about TX, but, like megs226 and SC (Salty Current), I’ve got to object. I was in grad school at URI (the oceanography school there) and found the state physically beautiful (lots of tourists in the summertime!) and the people generally friendly. I really liked my time in RI.
Now, granted, I was mostly in school as a grad student, and it was 30 years ago, but I find your characterization of the state based on the actions of ONE city… somewhat unfair. It might be like characterizing the state of TX by the city, say, of Austin. Not necessarily representative. Might be, might not be.
And flat, really? Like that’s an insult?
Or possibly, “…By Their “Love””.
–
Rhode Island is the home of Jon Campbell (singing “Fredericks of Galilee”).
This is the business world we will get if Ron and Rand Paul have their way. They want to roll back the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Libertarians have such blind faith in “free” markets that they think bigoted businesses will suffer and fair businesses will triumph. But it never occurs to them that mob bigotry in a town or a whole swath of the nation can threaten the fair businessmen with reprisals and violence for their fairness. This is a great example of why libertarianism does not work in the real world even on such a small scale as Cranston, RI.
But that goes against their religion of not acknowledging anything that shows they are wrong…;)
It’s the return of religious persecution, but in this case it’s the religious doing the persecuting. With the rising popularity of rationality and skepticism, the religious know they are standing on the top of a house of cards built of denial of reality, self delusion, willful ignorance and blatant lies. Time is like a building gale coming to blow it all down.
It’s rather telling that the only defense of child-like beliefs are childish tantrums. The only problem with those kinds of tantrums from so-called adults is it usually involves lots of swearing and threats of violence. When called on their BS system, the Christians are rarely Christ-like.
I went to the Teleflora site and left a site question/comment — I indicated that I was confused because I couldn’t find the link to the religious screener to determine the acceptable religious affiliation for flower recipients in Rhode Island and requested assistance with determining which denomination of Christianity qualifies and how other religions (buddhist, hindu) or atheists are classified, in terms of recipient acceptability.
Wonder what response I will get…
Maybe someone else has commented about this, but I followed the link to the poll at comment #61, and haven’t read past there yet. I know these polls are statistically meaningless, but the questions and possible responses pissed me off. I wrote an email to them:
On your ‘The Buzz’ page, you currently have a poll asking ‘Should local companies choose who they want to do business with?’ The possible responses are ‘Yes- They can refuse who they want.’, ‘No- Everyone should be treated equally.’, and ‘I have mixed emotions.’ Don’t you think you should have somehow prefaced the poll with a clear statement about how, if they do choose to NOT do business with folks because of race, religion, etc., they are breaking both Federal and State law? This poll is the result of discrimination against someone based on her atheism. Would you have placed a poll with the same question and possible responses if she had been refused because she was black? How about Jewish? This is just disgusting.
The Cranston Herald also has a poll -Should Cranston appeal Judge Lagueux’s decision on the prayer banner at Cranston West? Currently 92 to 8% in favor of appeal. http://cranstononline.com/
Mary P
Raven, I suppose I shouldn’t be pissed at RI mockery considering what I’ve said about TX, but, like megs226 and SC (Salty Current), I’ve got to object. I was in grad school at URI (the oceanography school there) and found the state physically beautiful (lots of tourists in the summertime!) and the people generally friendly. I really liked my time in RI.
What have the citizens of Rhode Island done to demonstrate that they aren’t part of this mob or christlime bigots?
You know, in Tyler, we had a shooting of an elderly black woman by the police during a drug raid. The police were getting flack for it–even in Tyler. The KKK decided to make asses of themselves and have a demonstration supporting the police, so of course even the national news networks got in on this action and plastered it on the evening news.
But the networks didn’t film the even bigger counter-march of whites and blacks banding together to say that they didn’t approve of the KKK, or the shooting.
If people in Tyler, one of the dumbest and most backwards and bigoted cities in America, can get off their fucking asses and have a march in support of racial harmony and for the appalling murder of a black woman, then why can’t a similar outpouring of Cranston residents stand up for Jessica?
Seems like the state is as bigoted and worthy of contempt as Raven indicates.
And against the appalling murder. Argh.
At least a few Christians appear to get it…
http://revcyn.blogspot.com/2012/01/most-hated-girl-in-america.html
@marcdu pille # 114
That minister is a Unitarian. Unitarians are, for the most part, not Christians. They are mostly pluralists, agnostics, and a few atheists who like the whole churchy thing. There are some among them who may identify as Christians, and she may well be one of them, but most are not.
I do, however, know a good number of Christians who would be appalled by this. Whether they would have the stones* to publicly decry this for the display of hateful idiocy that it is is another thing.
*of metaphorical ability to produce either gamete.
Rhode Island isn’t looking too pretty right now. Hey, it wasn’t me threatening and demonizing a 15 year old girl and having a psychotic breakdown because a judge required us to obey the US constitution.
The people making RI look bad are…the people in RI.
From a distance, it’s notable how barbaric the Cranston religious kooks are behaving.
It’s noticeable that at least two local politicians have joined in. The braindead state representative, Palumbo called a high school girl, “an evil little thing”. What a real man, an adult male bullying a 15 high school girl.
And of course, the moderate xians are Missing In Action. Or rather just missing. Not surprising, they never do much of anything.
A lot of people have stood up and cheered for her and defended her. If any of them are actually from Rhode Island, I didn’t see it but then again, I’m 3,000 miles away.
Flat isn’t necessarily good or bad. Just different. On the west coast you are never far from a mountain range or two.
Well, I’m agin’ visiting states for which, if you miss the exit, you’ve missed the state. Just sayin’.
… seriously, I’m sorry–I know that line was kinda pathetic–but listen, the trouble is: I’m not sure I can even make proper fun of Rhode Island.
See, now real states, they have something genuinely funny about them. Texans, you can do the accent, the whole ‘everything is bigger here’ delusions of grandeur thing. Any southern state there’s something you can do with grits and/or the Klan, at the very least, if you’re feeling lazy… New York… now that’s a state. And the city’s even better. If you can’t do something with New York, give it up, pal. You shouldn’t be doing comedy.
But Rhode Island? Listen, Rhode Island’s so pathetic there aren’t even any real Rhode Island jokes. Or there are some… sorta… but they’re mostly kinda generic. As in: the same stuff they say about everywhere that isn’t the centre of the world. Inbreeding, stupidity… sexual congress with farm animals… it’s just so derivative, the lot of it.
Maybe that’s what happened, here. They’re feeling hurt. And they’re looking for identity. They’re thinking, dammit, there’s just nothing memorable about this place… How are we gonna stand out?
Oh. I know. Let’s all be miserable, vicious bigots to a 15-year old girl. That, that might make the news.
(/We can work it into our license plate tagline, too: ‘Welcome to Rhode Island… No flowers for YOU!’)
you won’t find so called “moderate” christians decrying this behavior so much, because at some level, they themselves realize they also utilize christian religious privilege, and that going against the mob here is the first step in removing their own privilege.
it’s why you didn’t find a lot of moderates initially supporting the civil rights movement, either.
It takes a lot of effort to get someone to realize they are living a life of unearned, and unfair, privilege that actually acts against the very structure their own society was supposed to be based on.
basically, it’s clear to me that the Constitution of the US had essentially been ignored and misunderstood by the vast, VAST majority of Americans, including their elected representatives, at least until the civil rights movement.
slowly, but surely, it is *starting* to dawn on people just how much privilege has overshadowed the intent of the constitution, but they will exhibit much irrational defensive behavior before they will let it go.
it will be a long time before the general attitude is one where people look to actually ACT as if their constitution was as valuable and remarkable a document as it actually is.
I worry that there is just too much ignorance and entrenched privilege to overcome in the end.
I’m sure that banner gave daily comfort to the (mostly) Christian student body of Cranston High School West.
Or, wait, no.
I mean, I bet no one even noticed it anymore hanging on the wall in the gym. It was probably as remarkable as wallpaper, but let one “evil little thing” point out that it never should have been there in the first place…
Aquaria, you said it yourself: the mainstream media are selective in their reporting. It can be hard to fathom why they think a significant protest is not newsworthy, but it happens time and time again: if something doesn’t fit their narrative, it doesn’t get reported. I suppose it’s possible that that’s happening in this case, and that there’s significant Christian opposition to the Cranston crazies, but their voice isn’t being heard. Fortunately, if that’s the case, social media will get the word out. Yup, anytime now…
To be honest, I’m not holding my breath. I doubt there will be many pro-Jessica sermons from pulpits this Sunday.
Here’s a report from her uncle, Steve Ahlquist, who was at the latest school committee meeting. There’s a lot of ugly crazy on display. Rather less concern for education, though:
Steve Ahlquist notes the privilege accorded to the pastor who spoke at the meeting. He was allowed to run over time, and to speak twice, contrary to the rules, while others were prevented from doing so.
Rules be damned, indeed. If only the banner supporters understood that the rules they despise are there for their benefit too.
I can’t fathom the irrational thinking going on in that place for a) defending a sign which was clearly religious and not permitted, b) getting all hot and bothered when they are called out for it, c) taking it all the way to court with no hope of winning, d) attempting to appeal the decision when there is no hope of overturning the ruling, e) taking it out on a teenage girl who appears to be the only sane person in the entire town. It’s pitiful.
Ichthyic:
It’s easier to demonize when you believe in literal demons.
I was a believer in Church, but once masturbation reared its head, ( a sin deserving eternal fire),I was out like Flynn and haven’t looked back since.
How could something so heavenly be seen as so bad as to warrant all good religious (pre)teens ending up in a never-ending hell. Unless all was forgiven by confession. I held out for a few days, but then …. copiously.I got fed up going weekly.
@58 Gregory
As a Brit, I have only just realised that Family Guy is a documentary.
I did see this shining example of Cranston Brand (TM) Thinking from the poll comments:
“Can anyone explain to me how these athiests stay in this country? America was BLESSED by GOD! It says so in the beautiful for spacious skies song! How can you stay here in God’s land when you don’t believe in God? And when you buy food from the fruited plain, you use money that says “In God We Trust”! Someone explain this to me! I’M GOING MAD!”
Impaled upon the sword of such clear thinking, I must withdraw.
It comes as no surprise that there is a Facebook page and a Twitter account set up in support of the Cranston forists.
As if they are somehow the victims?!
Not much point attempting to comment on the Facebook page either, any comment disagreeing with their stance is quickly deleted.
Aww Geez, there’s no generous charity, merciful forgiveness and human kindness like the sort you get from Christians eh? /sarc
Wow. How utterly appalling.
@61. marcdu pille says:
The poll at http://www.wpri.com/dpp/rhode_show/the-buzz-report-florists-refuse-deliveries-to-ahlquist is still not moving. It’s at top left, click on “Poll” tab next to “video” and “Photo” tabs, otherwise you won’t see it. Currently at 63% to 34% in favour of bigotry.
*****
VideoPhotoPoll
Should local companies choose who they want to do business with?
Yes- They can refuse who they want.
No- Everyone should be treated equally.
I have mixed emotions.
Florists refuse deliveries to AhlquistSee Results
Error: Please select a vote.Error: Please enter the text from the image above.Error: No vote was submitted. Please try again.Error: Our log shows that you have already voted once.
Should local companies choose who they want to do business with?
Yes- They can refuse who they want. 47%
No- Everyone should be treated equally. 49%
I have mixed emotions. 3%
Florists refuse deliveries to Ahlquist
Those polls mentioned @#61 & 65 & 111 Are looking decidedly unpharyngulated. Surely we can do better. Come on people! We know the polls are worthless as true statistical indicators, but xians are too stupid to figure it out. Particularly if it supports their daft point of view!
Sorry I haven’t reposted the links, I’m posting from an iPhone and can’t figure that stuff out (not on such a tiny screen with my thumb)
@ 65. Grumps : 19 January 2012 at 4:12 pm
Cheers – latest results :
***
Which florist would you patronize? (2,194 votes)
Florist who delivers to Ahlquist: 64.4% (1,413)
Florists who refuse to deliver to Ahlquist: 30.0% (658)
Makes no difference: 5.6% (123)
Vote successfully recorded. Thank you.
@111. marypoppins – 19 January 2012 at 9:35 pm :
@ tony says #29
-I bartend at a sports bar called Helen Back in NW Florida that specializes in pizza. I’d love to be able to send her some pizza.
Ha Ha a pizza via Hel en Back. Wouldn’t that make it an Inferno Pizza?
Here’s a small section from the FFRF press release:
FFRF was forced to go to an out of state business, Glimpse of Gaia, in Putnam, Conn., which not only agreed to deliver the flowers but threw in a second bouquet from the shop with its own message, “Glimpse of Gaia fully supports our First Amendment and will not be bullied by those who do not. Here’s to you, Jessica Ahlquist.”
I sent Glimpse of Gaia a thank you note. It’s great to send a negative email to the offending florists, but the good guys/gals should hear from us as well.
C.
I can’t really blame the florist or call him a coward since either way he would have lost business.
Yes, you can blame them, because you don’t know that their businesses would suffer.
The USPS hasn’t stopped delivering. FedEx or UPS would deliver. The delivery guys aren’t being harassed.
So what’s the fucking difference?
Knock off this bullshit excuse. Because it is bullshit.
I dropped Glimpse of Gaia an email too. They wrote back to say they’ve had an “overwhelmingly positive” response. And that Jessica and local charities are getting more flowers thanks to donors.
[As someone who grew up in northeast Connecticut, I am pleased to see that a florist in Putnam stood against bigotry and malice. (Putnam was a local call! Woo-hoo!)]
Reading about this, I had a mental image. Imagine a movie starring the icon of this type of conservative jingoist, John Wayne. Here’s the scenario: a local townsperson or rancher approaches John Wayne and says “John” (or “Chance” or “Mr. Cogburn” or “Big Jim” or whatever name his character has), “I don’t like you doing business with that schoolgirl. If’n you don’t stop, I’ll take my business elsewhere.” So in their scenario, The Duke says “well, I guess I’ll just whinge, then, and decide not to visit that schoolmarm/girl/sheepman/injun/black/Chinaman/whoever because you don’t like them.” Or maybe he shudders and says, “Well, I guess I jest ain’t goin’ ta ride on that stagecoach then, its too scary” or “Well, I guess I ain’t goin’ ta take that schoolgirl’s herd to the railhead, since you don’t like it.” We can call their remake Rio Cranston.
But the response I imagine Wayne would insist on the screenwriters putting in would be along the lines of “Now, I might not like her either, or maybe I do, but you ain’t tellin’ me who I can do business with, Mister. An’ if you don’t like that, well, I guess I don’t need your business.”
In the old movies, the ones who surrendered to social pressure were not the heroes. Ultimately, the florists who knuckled under in Cranston are the citizens of High Noon or High Plains Drifter. They don’t have my sympathy. They are collaborationists or bullies themselves.
So, who will it be next, Cranston florists? Which of your neighbors will you turn on? Athiests today; tomorrow Jews? Blacks? Muslims? Democrats? Protestants? Left-handed people? And where will it stop? Will the Cranston pharmacists join in? The Cranston EMS workers? The Cranston fire department? In the end, it will be like a Twilight Zone episode, where no-one can trust anyone, because the others are bullies and quislings.
Should someone read the First Amendment out loud to the people of Cranston ? (That includes the lawyers who apparently thought this was defendable in the first place)
If the appeals court even accepts the case (which they don’t have to), then the outcome is still quite predictable. The School Prayer banner is an endorsement of a particular religion by a governmental organization.
Haven’t any lawyers explained this to the school board?
@ marcdu pille #114
Not sure that this is really ground for hope. Reverend Cynthia Landrum is a Unitarian, and a woman.
The first part suggests that she is more open-minded and ecumenical than the average christian. One can even argue that she is not really Christian, from what I understood about Unitarian churches.
The second part suggests that her opinion won’t have much weight outside of her congregation. Because a good number of christian sects believe that women are not fit to debate religious matters.
I won’t take the Christians off the hook because of her view. On the other hand, she did a good job at nailing down the issue.
Perhaps instead of sending her flowers, people could make a contribution to her scholarship fund – and do it in the name of any one of the cowardly florists. And send the florist a note to that effect, graciously worded, of course.
“Because you recently took a public stand on the important constitutional issues raised by Ms. Jessica Ahlquist, I want to recognize your action personally, and have done so by making a $XXX constribution, in your business’s name, to her college scholarship fund. Thank you for helping to shine a light on this importantant issue and for acknowledging its importance in our lives, and for doing your part to bring the city of Cranston, and its businesses, to the national attention in this memorable way.”