We’re hated. I guess we might as well surrender.
OR FIGHT BACK. GRAAAARRR! RAAAAGE!
(Episode CCLXXXIX: Hope, struggle, and change.)
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
We’re hated. I guess we might as well surrender.
OR FIGHT BACK. GRAAAARRR! RAAAAGE!
(Episode CCLXXXIX: Hope, struggle, and change.)
http://www.hulu.com/watch/315291/celebrity-wife-swap-gary-buseyted-haggard
Whelp, went to the doc yesterday because been having some pain on one side of my jaw and some swelling and a few other symptoms and
diagnosis Sialolithiasis
If you don’t want to be grossed out, do not look at images. On the other hand if you do, well…
so this should be fun
Actually not quite as gross as I was expecting.
I know this is somewhat OT, but I saw something I while back that struck me:
Homophobia is the fear that a gay man will treat you like you treat women.
So much of homophobia and transphobia is rooted in misogyny. A Real Man™ is heterosexual and cisgendered. He has sex with an appropriately submissive (in a good way, ’cause that’s hot) Real Woman™, who likes it, but not too much (’cause women who are too sexual are icky).
LGBT people – writ large – confront the necessity of this paradigm. Me, I have no problem with heterosexual cisgendered man having great sex with a heterosexual cisgendered woman. More power to them! I just don’t want that for myself. It isn’t necessary.
The power of the kyriarchy is rooted in everyone knowing their place and toeing the line. Once people start saying that this isn’t necessary, it all comes crashing down.
This is The Endless Thread: Nothing is OT here.
Esteleth, Ph.D. of Mischief, Mayhem and Hilarity @ 4;
QFT. I think that a great deal of homophobia and misogyny come about because of this ridiculously limited construction of sexuality. What is more, I think that women who are ‘too sexual’ are seen not only as ‘icky’, but as threatening. Afterall, a woman who owns and enjoys her own sexuality is not the living sex-toy fantasy of these inadequate cretins. She may start thinking for herself *gasp*!
Absolutely true. it doesn’t matter at all what your sexuality happens to be so long as everyone involved is an enthusiastically consenting adult. And if I may expand upon your point a little more, for the truly dedicated followers of the obnoxious Real Man(TM) trope, a “heterosexual cisgendered man having great sex with a heterosexual cisgendered woman” is actually problematic. Why? Because sex like that – truly great, intimate sex – is necessarily collaborative. It can only be achieved between equals who concern themselves with each others needs, desires and preferences, and are prepared to communicate effectively in order to have the best experience possible. While by any sensible metric such sex is by orders of magnitude the best sex, it doesn’t satisfy the Real Man(TM)’s need to assert dominance by treating women as property, and such creatures are far more interested in the maintanence of their power and privilege then they are in sex itself. For them, sex is performative – just another dominance display.
I have to agree with Pat Robertson in his first appearance there – indeed, atheists and troo-christians should not consort.
OMG I AGREED WITH PAT ROBERTSON WHERE IS THE BRAIN BLEACH AGH AGH AGH THE HORROR…
Rev BDC, that’s kind of dismaying. Let us know how you do.
Looks like FTB has been sniffing solvents while varnishing its cache server…
Tap Tap… is thing on…
It’s very insistent about this; maybe your cache server needs to be varnished, PZ.
Serendipitydawg
That would explain it.
In the upsetting personal news front:
Yesterday, a friend of mine posted a link to a news story on my fb wall: “Glenville Man Sentenced For Rape”. An old boss of mine was sentenced to 20 years in prison for raping an 11 year old girl.
Jesus Christ. I can’t even articulate how I feel. Disgusted, sad, angry… those don’t even scratch the surface.
Oh and the kicker? He was an evangelical Christian. (Shocker, I know.)
Left-overs:
My recipe for devilled eggs:
1) boil some eggs, reallyreallyreally dead
2) peel eggs, starting at that air-filled spot at or near the big end
3) cut eggs in half long-wise; splop yolks into a flattish dish and set halved whites aside. For later.
4) mash the hell out of the yolks
5) add some Miracle Whip™ (I don’t know how much; just enough)
6) add some French’s™ mustard (quantity as above)
7) add some very finely-chopped pecans. More than that. More….
8) mix that mess up into a smooth, homogenous and yummy consistency; spoon into yolk-sockets
9) sprinkle with cinnamon
10) eat remaining yolk mixture, while fending off cat.
Pickles (relished or otherwise) and diced onions have no place here; nor does *gagging, retching noise* chopped celery. Celery has its place, but this…is…not…it.
Peas are right out.
–
*singing*
You can get anything you want
At Oggy’s Wife’s Restaurant
(Or her street corner).
*end singing*
And happy bird’s day, Ogvorbis. :)
–
Argh! And there’s so much neat Egypt stuff to be presented! What a wasted opportunity.
–
Yay! indeed! This is good news, StarStuff!!
–
–
Fresh Today!
“Guru Meditiation”? “Varnish cache server”?? What has FTB been smoking???
–
“Intelligently Designed”.
Also, ow ow ow! You have my sympathies, Rev.
–
@Audley,
He probably still is and I bet he has prayed to be forgiven…
Sad indeed.
The ongoing revelations concerning the murdered “witch” child continue to dismay me. This one of the few times when the BBC’s standard some listeners may find this report distressing would have been a good point to find something else on the radio.
Mmmmmmm. Minted peas.
** ducks **
** runs for the exit **
I started reading the previous thread and it seems no one mentioned mushrooms when discussing braised or broiled vegetables. They’re delicious and juicy just cleaned and wrapped in one large foil container. No basting is needed.
Rev. BDC, my dad had that problem. Minor surgery, minor scar. The bad pictures are the extremes of what happens when left untreated.
*hug* for Dr. Audley. Once again we see that rapists don’t come with labels.
But I’m sure it’s okay—because God Has Forgiven Him.
–
SDawg,
Oh, I’d bet money that he still is, but I haven’t seen or talked to him in about 9 years, so I can’t really be sure.
Sadly this video is truer in some parts of America than it should be. Having missed the point of what I was being told when being hired at a “good Christian workplace” I later found myself fired for not taking part in prayers one Xmas (living in an at will State I had no legal recourse either).
OTOH I had enjoyed many moments where people show their joy at meeting another atheist.
Still, the funniest time of my life was learning that my gawd-bothering dick of an ex-neighbor got arrested for showing his junk to children – and this was the guy who gleefully informed my wife and I that we are destined for the furnaces of heck :-)
@ 13 As a science teacher, I must protest your use of non standard units. As someone who is looking for a new lunch item, THANKS!
Molly Ivins (peace be upon her) once wrote a wonderful column. I have it around somewhere and I might see if I can find it to quote later. The gist of it was that she had received more hate mail, and much more virulent hate mail, after a column in which she urged President Clinton to keep his campaign promise and let gays serve openly in the military than she had ever had. She mentioned that she had never understood the intensity of homophobia, specifically fear of gay men, since most men may disapprove of lesbians but rarely seem actively afraid of them, until she read one letter that said, “In the military they shower together and what if a gay man comes on to you and won’t listen when you say no.”
She mentioned that that is called rape and is already pretty illegal, but then she realized Homophobia is fear of male sexual aggression.
The title of the column was “How does it feel, guys?”
One of the reasons she is so sorely missed.
I can’t believe someone could get fired for not taking part in a prayer! I once taught in a private Jewish school where the rabbi and I had an understanding about our areas of responsibility. I couldnt bring ham sandwiches to school, but i could live with that. I left because my pay and benefits would be higher in the public system.
Ah. We actually had a chance to go there once, as the place Spouse was working for was being shut down and they were offered transfers to the Wilkes-Barre branch. I was in school, though, and couldn’t move.
—— Open Letter to the Faithful Next Door ——
Though your faith is not above criticism atheist are still committed to to your right to believe whatever you please. Your atheist next door is not robbing you of your faith. He isi not a serial killer of the faithful. What you are witnessing is the inability of religion to convince you and others in your flock to continue to believe that irrationality is a virtue. One day you wake up and religious belief will steel away in the night. You will discover that your loss will become your gain. What incredible relief you will feel to be rid of such silliness.
She mentioned that that is called rape and is already pretty illegal, but then she realized Homophobia is fear of male sexual aggression.
The title of the column was “How does it feel, guys?”
The irony being that the guys who typically complain about how misandristically male sexuality is portrayed in society are the same ones who are homophobic and dismiss raped women, thus ensuring that…everyone is afraid of male sexuality. Good job.
Reminds me of the hand wringing liberals and atheists had over the little girl who point blank called Bacheman out on this. This is the sort of thing that should be called on. It isn’t “unfair” to take the low hanging fruit here.
Oh,Brother (or Denephew/Father/assorted relatives) Ogvorbis, it’s your birthday!?!? I missed that earlier. Happy circumnavigation of the sun day! Hope you have many birthday treats to enjoy.
It’s like there’s a party in my mouth and everybody from the leather bar is invited!
The point is that at some stage or other of the transition, some unapproved mixing of genders is being perpetrated, whether in reality or in the mind.
Actually, the point is that the norm is being violated.
“People are happy when there’s a plan, even if it’s terrible!”~Joker
This disturbingly seems to be very insightful of the moderate and conservative mindset.
Though Esteleth (and Molly) are on to something, I think it’s often:
Homophobia is the fear that a
gaystraight man will treat you like you treat women.In the mind of the Real Man™, to be a woman is the most vile thing imaginable–an inhuman dog (bitch), to be used as chattel for submissive sexual purposes and thus reduced to a hole (cunt). If men are allowed to have sex with other men, that means any man might be seen by other males as the weak, sexual property of some stronger man, even if he’s never had m/m sex in his life. The threat isn’t just one of being vulnerable to rape, but of being vulnerable to all the social consequences of misogyny too. Homophobia is misogyny’s little brother.
Cicely wrote,
Yet. I’m thinking of getting a cookie-cutter type knuckle-duster for labelling their foreheads. And maybe cheeks. And palms.
@Markita
I hope you mean the one’s on their face
————
Recent comments not working again /pester pester pester
As a long time reader (pre-Expelled) and drive by commentor, I have a question. How on earth do you guys (i.e. the Horde) have time to keep up with all of this ? Endless threads, on top of the 500+ comments that normal posts generate – I can never keep up. Job, kids, occasional sleep.
Has anyone read Under the Banner of Heaven? I made the mistake of picking it up yesterday to delay having to panic about the upcoming semester. I have read the first couple of chapters and got ill. One of the things that struck me though was how much the stuff coming out of Santorum sounds like the FLDS? Sex only for the purposes of procreation and women as baby machines. It is bad enough that there are onclaves of this in the country, but in presidential candidates? ACK!!!
Molly Ivins wrote:
QFT. This has always, always been my view of homophobia. They’re afraid someone will point that thing at them.
Morning/evening/afternoon/good night, Thread!
Happy Monkey to Ogvorbis (also, get off my lawn, laddie)!
—
E-cig arrived today and I haz started vaping… so far so good. I could get used to this. There are brief moments of alien feel to it, but the overall experience is surprisingly like smoking a cigarette. Maybe, in a month or two, I will get my taste buds and lungs (what’s left of them) back.
—
Did someone mention mushrooms? My freezer’s still half full of last year’s harvest =) I’m thinking cream of mushroom soup with ceps for supper tonight. Or grilled chantarelle and cheese sammidge… decisions, decisions.
@pHred
read The Family.
I do mean face cheeks.
We have Under the Banner of Heaven but I haven’t read it. It sounds more than a little unpleasant and if we ever visit the Mormon sister-in-law, I want to be able to keep the peace and not bring up inconvenient truths.
I don’t keep up with the thread–just dip in and out. I tried but it took hours a day.
Should be easy enough to take care of most of those obnoxious atheists: Just provide the evidence that there’s a God.
OK, there is the one problem…
Glen Davidson
@We Are Ing
I started it and had to give it back to the library. I have gotten a copy of his more recent book and haven’t had a chance to read it yet either. What is your take on it ?
Sigh -My to read pile is longer than the endless thread.
Happy birthday, Brother Ogvorbis, OM! May your teeth remain sniny from snacking on trolls.
By the logic of homophobes, women should refuse to serve or work with men unless the men are locked into chastity belts before any unsupervised interaction with women, by their wives, sisters, mothers, or whoever is the responsible woman in their lives.
I have a cousin who lives in Salt Lake, though she isn’t LDS. I have never figured out how she can stand it. I don’t even want to go there when the Gelogical Society of America has their annual meetings there. It creeps me out so bad. The overt hostility because you are female and wearing pants – it is nuts.
Serendipitydawg:
For a moment, I read that as “has been sniffing rodents” instead of solvents…
><
Well, just as suspected, the Arab League Syria monitor is a total joke: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/01/201211163519970727.html
I can’t see the situation in Syria ending well.
Hasn’t Rick “Frothy Feces” Santorum seen the long-term research showing that children of lesbian households are better adjusted (caveats: planned pregnancies, lots of joint custody) than of mixed-sex households, with superior marks, self-esteem, and behaviour; and others that report ZERO INCIDENCE of child abuse in lesbian hosueholds?
The real limitation on adoption, based on reported sexual abuse of children, should be to screen out stepfathers.
Markita Lynda—-Happy New Year, everyone! @ 43;
You are forgetting that most homophobes are also misogynists, and misogynist ‘logic’ dictates that women are different from men in such a circumstance, because those ‘dirty sluts’ are asking for it essentially by virtue of being unchained from their sink whilst female…
That’s a lovely piece of music they’re using. It’s hard to take seriously when it’s entitled IBM 1401, A User’s Manual: The Processing Unit, but it’s by Johann Johannsson and it’s pretty brilliant all the way through.
Hi there
Relative Ogvorbis
Happy Birthday!
Enjoy your steak
re: Homophobia
I once called Homophobia “misogyny’s little sister”, but given the violent hate it has, that’s too cute a term.
Oh, and from the Catholic(TM) fear of homosexuals:
“The bishop of Córdoba, Demetrio Fernández assures that the curch “doesn’t want to impose its vision of life and family unto anybody, but it asks people to respect the vision we received from god and which is inscribed in human nature”, and, continuing, he assures that a few days ago in Zaragoza, cardinal Antonelli told him that the UNESCO wants to convert half the human population into homosexuals in just 20 years.”
sauce
So much worng in so few words.
But I kind of like how he says that they totes don’t want to impose their ideas unto anybody as long as everybody respects them.
Regarding the theme of military men afraid of a gay man in the showers: Marine’s Lament by Fred Small.
Speaking of keeping up with TET, I saw
and was compelled to reverse course to see what potentially fabulous cookie recipe I was missing out on (shoulda known that it was some sort of panic about lesbian and transgender cooties getting all over those GG mint creams). It’s bad enough trying to keep up with the present TET without having to go back into previous incarnations. Now expect to be trapped in Episode CCLXXXIX for a while.
Remember the irreducible complexity creationist canard?
Evolution of increased complexity in a molecular machine
It’s a sad week for the IDiots…
I wonder how long will it take them to handwave this?
Er, ‘traf’ is a backwards fart. Y’know, the sound of gas being sucked into an anus?
Well, I can’t speak for others, but, well, I have no life.
—
All: Thanks for the birthday wishes.
I haven’t even been keeping up with life. Two weeks gone like that. Happy day Ogvorbis.
Markita:
Interesting. Though the zero incidence of child abuse in lesbian households will probably not hold true when the population observed gets bigger, if only because of regression toward the mean. While sociological and criminological studies confirm that domestic violence is more often initiated by men, women are not totally absent from that demographic.
Human beings being flawed with no distinction of creed, colour, gender, sexual orientation, and all that, we have to expect dysfunctional gay and lesbian families as well as heterosexual families.
That said, I long for the day when gays only have to contend with the same kind of problems that heterosexuals face, and not the additional hurdles society imposes on them!
Grar!
My mild-mannered self, the Talkative Knitter, has stepped aside for my more bombastic alter ego, the Dyke With Power Tools. I went to the store, bought a bunch of stuff, and spent the past hour drilling holes in stuff and hanging blinds and curtains. It was hot, sweaty work (not least because I had to stand in front of the radiator for much of it) and I was seriously tempted to strip down. I didn’t mostly because when one is hanging curtains in a window that faces the street, nudity is not advised (unless you’re into that sort of thing, of course).
But now! There are blinds! And curtains! And a new shower curtain rod! With curtains! And a cubby in the bathroom!
Woo! Shouting!
Here, have some complementary 7-day old grog for your B-day. Probably won’t help the brain work better, but it should make you not notice.
Squee! and general random happy noises! It is almost really a book! I just proofed my galleys and am working on the index. Light at the end of the tunnel is finally not a train. Squee again! (This is safe since no one knows what I am talking about :)
God dammit with these people.
My wife is mad at me because I told my 9 year old daughter last night that people that tell you that you must believe as they do, take it on faith, and attach some sort of penalty to it should not be trusted.
So I asked her if she’d feel better if I told her that she should live her life as a sycophant to a blood sacrifice. She just walked away.
Good times.
Og:
Sorry, I don’t know why I didn’t get that one immediately.
Happy Birthday, Ogvorbis!
Rev. BDC., yikes! Best of luck dealing with that, does your doctor have a plan?
Art Vandelay
I’m sorry that happened, but I think you really need to talk about that like grown-ups, and not via slinging clever lines at each other.
I don’t know if she’s a believer, if you made certain agreements about what to tell your daughter, but it seems like you really need to do it now.
Sorry for coming off as the Agony Aunt nobody asked.
pHred
Wanna read.
Maybe.
++++++
Hmpf, I need a new purse. I’ve agreed with myself on cut and fabric, only the decoration-jury is out….
…And here I thought “I threw up a little in my mouth” was metaphorical.
Happy natal day to you,
Happy natal day to you,
Happy natal day dear Ogvorbis who’s related to so many people in so many different ways,
Happy natal day to you.
Um, sorry, it doesn’t scan quite as well as I’d hoped.
Wilkes-Barr?
I always thought that was a rather wild variation of the Two Knight’s Defence? Probably not too good but white can get into a lot of trouble very quickly.
/knocks over board and gallops off into sunset …
Grumps in to state, “I want my final version of the corn-mimicking anus!”
Grumps back out the door to work.
Does Rick “Frothy Feces” Santorum read? Or does he just parrot whatever vileness someone else pulls out of their ass? This paper in Pediatrics Digest from 2006 includes a virtual roll call of America’s psychiatric and child-psychology and medical associations calling for the acceptance of gay adoptions, gay civil unions, and gay marriage for the good of the children of those unions.
(A summary of statements is on my blog.)
He only reads those things which support his hatred of anything that isn’t conservative or fundamentalist Catholic. Actual data which contradict his various opinions don’t exist, as far as he’s concerned.
heya, happy birthday Ogvorbis.
Obviously relevant specialness:
http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/robert-anton-wilson-week-on-bo.html
Why do I always suspect that Robert Anton Wilson is a pen name for Robert A. Heinlein?
Markita Lynda, Frothymixture would deem any of those studies unreliable because the medical establishment is infested with liberals. That’s why right-wingers invent their own sciency-sounding organizations.
I was just scrolling down the thread, and the term Wilkes-Barr jumped out at me. My first thought was that it was a medical condition, most likely some invariably fatal, degenerative genetic caused disease.
Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg
Thanks and I concur. I did tell her that if the kid ever feels the need to anthropomorphize the universe in a way that she feels comfortable with that I would never get in the way. It’s just…religion. Ew.
Joyous Natal Anniversary, young Ogvorbis.
OK we need trigger warnings.
Not for PTSD type situations, but for “things are going to be thrown at your monitor” situations.
Ing warn us next time!
Happy Birthday Oggie!
Jesus now approves adultery? That explains so much.
Wilkes-Barre is named after two members of Parliament who supported the American colonists and, later, American revolutionaries. Incidentally, John Wilkes Booth was named after one of them.
Apparently some Indiana state senators are trying to pass a bill “that would allow schools to require the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer every morning, if they want to.” Source
*sigh* Can’t I just go one day without learning about this kind of stupidity (and if I can’t, neither can any of you [/bitterness])? I wasn’t even looking for it, the link popped up in my Facebook news feed.
There’s nothing stopping anyone from reciting the Lord’s Prayer every 5 minutes, if they wish to do so. They just need to do it silently.
Happy Monkey, Ogvorbis!
RevBDC, may your recovery be as speedy and painless as possible.
Also, you need to be careful you don’t fall bum-first onto a potato, bottle, or other object capable of entering the rectum. Such accidents while hanging curtains or similar in the nude seem to be remarkably common, although for some unknown reason they happen mainly to men.
Maybe they can pray for jobs while they’re at it.
Via BigUglyJim commenting on Crommunist’s latest, drug-sniffing dogs seem to be reacting to the suspicion, and biases, of their handlers:
http://www.meddlingkids.org/2012/01/the-keen-nose-of-justice/
Well, I’m told that my home state (Illinois, for the record) has it now law that every morning there is a session of “quiet contemplation or prayer.” Nothing is read. Just sit quietly for 5 minutes.
So, I asked someone what the students actually DO. Apparently, the god-botherers make a big show of mouthing prayers (praying aloud is forbidden). The religious who are not assholes about it either pray inwardly or don’t, but they don’t make a show. Everyone else mostly just fidgets, wraps up homework, etc.
Y’know, my opinion on religion is pretty straightforward. I don’t give a shit about what you do, or don’t believe. Just don’t pray in my face, demand that I listen to your proselytizing, or pass laws that make my life harder. I’ll exchange the favor.
Apropos of not much, but pretty neat:
This gender analyzer says that Pharyngula is 55% likely to be written by a man, but is quite gender neutral. Doesn’t really say anything about how it works.
I had a play with that, testing some of the other blogs here.
Greta came in at 59% likely to be written by a women, Ophelia at 56% written by a women, Communist Manifesto at 69% written by a man, and Jen at 51% written by a women.
I also had a look at the results of whether the conclusion Pharyngula was written by a man was correct. The poll results are very odd. The number of votes seems very high: 25494 people voted that the conclusion Pharyngula is written by a man is correct, but that is only 56% of those who voted. 18887, or 41% seem to think PZ is a women, and 1366 (3%) have no idea. HOw the fuck could someone read this blog and not know PZ is a man ?
State schools in the UK are supposed to have a religious assembly every day. This requirement is seldom observed for a number of reasons. Many schools do not have a room large enough to accommodate all the students. Also, many schools cannot find staff willing to conduct the assemblies. I rather suspect some others regard it an initiative test, in the expectation both staff and students will work out ways to avoid having to take part.
My mangina fools them all.
Watch out, cupcakes! Cupcake barred from U.S. flight. “Too much icing,” mumble security officers, surreptitiously licking their lips.
You linked to a video with Stefan Molyneux, the anarchist? I guess around these parts there are groups that are even more hated than atheists, anarchists and libertarians.
Happy monkey Oggie!
About them thar debbiled eggs, you forgot the vinegar. *stern look*
As long as I’m tossing out links: (via Shakesville)
http://thegimpparade.blogspot.com/2012/01/health-care-and-non-compete-agreements.html
O_O
I come in at 52%, “quite gender-neutral.” I wonder what they look for?
Oho! The “is this correct” votes are for all blogs they’ve ever analyzed.
They think mine is by a man (64%), which is maybe a bit surprising given my most recent post.
:)
***
Any thoughts on the upcoming Restaurant Wars?
PZ, you should really stop flashing that thing around. It’s uncouth.
I thought the figures were a little high for PZ’s blog alone! Not exactly brilliant results are they ?
It’s a work in progress that has been “trained” by analyzing blogs. The more we use it and give feedback, the better it should be. However, there are no little pink ladybrains so I hope it will never be infallible.
And the chopped pickles. But for some reason decided that pecans were a necessary ingredient. How silly is that?
SC:
I just hope there isn’t a whole lot of throwing under the bus.
@ Pteryxx
I still have my copy of the complaint from that particular lawsuit. Many nurses came down on the side of the clients and fought the NCA based on the complaining company’s claim that we had access to “trade secrets”(meaning our particular skills). We countered that we were actually recruited based on our skill sets and that we had learned them at our respective schools or, from years of work experience. The court never ruled on the validity of the NCA but the case was dropped because the clients and nurses refused to back down from the threat of individual lawsuits. The complaining company realized how stupid it would be to make good on their threat after we had agreed to it and enlisted the help of a law firm that had provided services for the cost of filing a counter suit. The complaining company realized that they couldn’t fight that battle on so many fronts and dropped their case against the nurses.
I would make their name infamous all over the Internets.
Is this some US TV program ?
Ing @ 64 that’s appalling. For someone who’s supposed to be acting as a counsillor to a person who may be at their most vulnerable, a rape victim, to impose their own belief system on them and at such a moment – it’s beyond unprofessional, it’s abuse in its own right. Absolutely bloody appalling.
I’d kind of like someone to throw that Chris under a bus so I don’t have to hear the name of his restaurant in Chicago ever again. I do hope (and am expecting that) it’ll let them use more creativity than most of the previous elimination challenges.
I just had a “fuckit” moment. I am hungry, but lack the willpower to cook.
But yet! I’m hungry. A problem that has but one solution.
So I just ordered pizza.
Fuck it.
Pteryxx:
I love RAW, but he’s very difficult for most people to take. He wrote a lot of things (novels, essays, nonfiction) that, at face value, have a lot of woo-type psychology in them. The critical piece – that he didn’t believe any of it, ever, and that even when he talked about it he was presenting his own observations and not stating an “official” position – gets left out most of the time.
Plus, I think he sacrificed enough sacred cows to start a fast-food chain.
Yes, Top Chef.
Heard of it, never seen it. There is a UK version called MasterChef: The Professionals which I also don’t watch.
Matt:
Top Chef.
SC:
Oh gods, I’m with you on that one. I still haven’t gotten over that whole cigar business.
Matt:
It’s a standard challenge included in each season of the cooking competition show Top Chef. Typically in the episode in which there are 8 “cheftestants” remaining, they’re divided into two teams of 4, and each team must plan and operate a pop-up restaurant for one evening’s service, with one member of the least successful team being eliminated.
Top Chef fans, have you been watching Last Chance Kitchen? It stopped showing up on my cable system’s OnDemand menu a couple episodes back, so I’m behind. I’m sure I can find the episodes online, but I keep expecting Comcast to catch up; whassup with that?
Would it be indelicate to peek just a little?
@NovaC, thanks. I don’t know what to think or how to go about amplifying this. NCAs in patient care… it’s insane.
Oh, that was repulsive! I was a little sick just looking at it. (And I used to love Moroccan chicken cigars.)
@ Markita
I no longer work for either company and not beholden to any restraining order, not sure if K. is…don’t think so. Anywho! Regency Home Health Care LLC decided they didn’t want a founding partner to find out what happened to company funds. When he started another company (Provident HHC) Regency went ape because clients were unhappy to begin with and were willing to change providers with the understanding that their staff could be kept for better continuity of care.
Regency stood to lose many of its more experienced nurses and pulled the breach of a non compete agreement that their law firm pulled off of some canned document site. The non compete wasn’t very specific about what was considered trade secret. It just stated we could not work for a competitor (Again, not very specific. Any other area that nurses work in could be considered competition if it kept clients out of the home health care setting). Then, it turned into sign it or be fired and sued so we fought back, left the company, and called their bluff.
It still pisses me off that those clients had to go through the stress of that crazy family’s (Regency is run by a family with a member in every administrative position.) grab for the whole company. Their policy towards clients with trust issues was “Deal with it” rather than “How can we make it better?”.
Ugh – have not been able to watch Top Chef since it turned into Big Brother – all attitude.
Steaming crab legs for dinner to cheer up my son who had a rough day at school.
Re: Under the Banner of Heaven, the first few chapters 1-4 are pretty graphic about the abuse that girls undergo at FLDS strongholds. It is horrible and hard to read. I have just started chapter 5.
Matt:
That’s probably not precisely a UK version of Top Chef, but a pro-chef spinoff of the original home-cooks MasterChef (of which there is a U.S. version… the only show featuring Gordon Ramsey I’ll actually watch). I was actually surprised to learn there isn’t a Top Chef UK, since there is a Top Chef Canada.
According to the analyzer, apparently Orac is 64% likely to be a woman…
Pteryxx,
Agreed NCA’s absolutely do NOT belong in the patient care aspect of health care. Research and development? Sure! Patient care? Oh, HELL NO!
They’re showing several of the previous episodes now. I’d forgotten Nancy Pelosi was the guest judge for the tag-team quickfire a few seasons ago.
OnDemand can be strange. Do you want to go catch up online or should I fill you in? (I’m caught up, but it took me a while to watch the latest because of some comments about Heather’s appearance. I didn’t even have the heart to go back to see if they’d been removed, but I expect so. Now I’m not reading the comments at all.)
Hooray!
Yeah, it is a spin-off from the original Masterchef, but I never much liked that either.
I liked Gorden Ramsay in Kitchen Nightmares, but not the US version. The way the narrator, and some of the people on the show, called him Chef Ramsay irritated me. If you want to be formal, it would be Mr Ramsay.
Second on that SC.
SC:
I’ll get myself caught up, one way or the other, but thanks.
The only comment I have about Heather’s appearance is that she and my boss could be twins. My boss has a much pleasanter disposition than Heather, though.
TV fan comment threads are nearly as bad as newspaper website comments; I generally avoid ’em on principle.
Matt Penfold:
Here’s an example of something which I find curious: why do some intelligent people, who otherwise exhibit a good grasp of the language, often write “women” when they mean “woman”? A similar problem arises with “than” becoming “then” – and both of these errors are always in the “a -> e” direction, never the reverse. Is it some kind of phonetic glitch?
So yes, I’m still alive, I’ve just been busy.
*hugs to all, heading out to meet people for dinner!!!*
No ,it is just a combination of writing quickly, being somewhat dyslexic and it being gone 11pm here.
Uh, I wanted to talk about it so I was nudging you to watch them now. :)
I think their blog ones were pretty well moderated. Maybe they didn’t think about it enough for the LCK comments….
Bill Dauphin:
*LANGUAGE RAGE*
Pfff! FTB has been varnishing its server cache again. Sounds dirty ;)
So now that we’re back up…
Is no one going to coo over my cat picture? I mean, he’s in a basket, and he’s on a rainbow. What kind of tough crowd is this?
;)
You’lll be pleased to know that gay-exorcist was fired for protesting in uniform.
Though he bitches constantly about being fired for praying.
“OR FIGHT BACK. GRAAAARRR! RAAAAGE!”
my sentiments exactly. we mustn’t be pansies when the struggle for rationality and sanity is of such importance. don’t ever give up in the face of these douchebags. RAAAAGE!
@ SC:
No, no, the basket is an error! Cats are so much cuter when lolling about in cardboard boxes, and kittens must be photographed in mugs!
(If all else fails, you just keep the cat & the rainbow, and add a pop-tart…)
Can’t wait for restaurant wars! I wish it could be a triple elimination or something.
So, is it a good thing or a bad thing when your husband can tell right away that the oven has shorted out and is about to catch on fire, because it’s making the same sound the last one did when it caught on fire?
Scene:
Front room, husband watching Deadliest Catch, me playing on computer.
*buzzing sound*
Me, quizzical look: “Whaaa???”
Spouse, jumping up and running for basement (to the circuit box): “Everyone out of the house NOW!!!”
Me: looks at stove, sees glowy light where it shouldn’t be. “Ok kids, GO.”
His quick action got the circuit cut before the arcing could catch anything on fire, thankfully. I doubt we could replace just the bottom heating element, because it probably shorted the whole system.
So we went out to eat.
And now need a stove, less than a week after the starter shorted out the electrical system and battery in the car. Maybe we’re channeling energy from somewhere or something. Stopped by Lowe’s and found a nice one, and are now trying to figure out why it’s cheaper than other ones of the same brand with fewer options. Will go back tomorrow and try and get a salesperson to help. Going with a hidden heating element this time.
But, but, what do I tell him the next time he jumps in a basket? He loves baskets!
*cries*
Who would you eliminate?
craigore:
Sigh. Why don’t you actually work at losing the whole pussy/pansy/sissy business? Is it that damn hard for you to express yourself without it?
Carlie:
Feeling a tad bloodthirsty, Carlie?
The Redhead was transferred to rehab just before the first major snow storm of the season is set to start tomorrow. I have the snow thrower at ready.
Dang Rev. BCD, that doesn’t look pleasant. Surgery I presume.
Nerd:
Good news! Stay safe.
SC – well, CHRIS, for one. No more fugly inedible cigars or recipes that are straight off of his restaurant’s standard menu. Sarah can go anytime; I liked her at first, but I’m tired of her attitude now. Grayson seems pretty hit-or-miss. Beverly I don’t think is long for this show, but she’s oddly entertaining.
I’m not sure if it’s the crop of cheftestants (heh) or the challenges that are bugging me. I mean, really, more bbq? More all-nighters? Get some creativity. And it’s almost entirely Top Caterer at this point rather than Top Chef. I don’t need for so many challenges to be “cook a full buffet of food for a gazillion people”.
Caine – not really, it just seems like it’s dragging on and on.
Ty-Lor I wanted to go for awhile, but he’s grown on me. Ed is getting more and more mean, but he does cook well and I’ll cut him a little slack because I think some of it is a “really, show?” attitude on some of the crap they have to take. I want Paul to win it.
My wife watches a lot of cooking shows, as we have the Cooking, or Food Channel. I like watching the techniques, some of which I steal, but I am absolutely turned off by the ritual humiliation at the end of each episode — the pauses before and after the ritual phrases (“one of you must go home”), the bathetic close-ups (“that’s how it is, here on Name of Show”), the faux-dramatic music (“and person who is leaving, who now will have their dreams crushed”), the intercutting between the executioners and the victims, (“is . . . is . . . is . . [commercial break for four minutes] . . is . . . is . . . NAME OF PATHETIC WRETCH”), closeups of gloating contestants and smug judges.
AND EVERY SHOW DOES IT THE SAME WAY!! The formula is old, bored, tired, and abusive. And the directors (I have worked in tv) clearly egg on the contestants to trash-talk each other. It has become nauseating for me.
That’s a given, as discussed above.
I still have pretty favorable feelings towards Sarah, but could go either way. It might be because Tony Mantuano seems so nice and it’s hard to imagine him mentoring anyone not also nice and really talented.
My feelings exactly.
Umm, it case no one else noticed, the site has been down, (were you all just too polite to notice the goddam elephant sitting on the site?;-), I offer a lengthy comment:
Rev. BigDumbChimp @ 2, you have my sympathies. There are worse places to have stones (I know, I know, “not in the face!”).
I’ve had the stones but they passed long before they became pebbles.
I’ve also had facial/jaw lymph nodes become infected. It wasn’t pretty but at least I didn’t have rocks in my head.
I give short shrift on comfort, don’t I.
+++++++++++++++++++
“Homophobia is the fear that a gay man will treat you like you treat women.”
Hmm, I never thought of it like that but there seems to be a basic element of truth in it. I go into gay & lesbian bars in my Uni town. Occasionally I get hit on in the former, (not near as often as when I was younger;-), but a simple ‘No, thanks’ is all it takes.
I’ve seen straight guys not take it so well when turned down by women. [/understatement]
+++++++++++++++++++
I’ve known 2 child molesters in my life (probably more than 2, but these guys were my friends and it was astounding when they were caught and convicted) I had zero idea. I wasn’t the target so they just seemed like really nice, talented guys.
Sexual preferences are such an odd thing. [/understatement]
+++++++++++++++++++
“I later found myself fired for not taking part in prayers one Xmas (living in an at will State I had no legal recourse either).”
Well it now applies to the whole country:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Minnie The Finn, When you quit smoking you also get your sense of smell back. This is not necessarily a good thing.
********************
OK, I’m done for now.
What bothers me the most is how winner-take-all they have to be. The winner of Project Runway: All Stars gets prizes worth almost half a million dollars, and there isn’t even a prize for second place!
***
Ty’s grown on me, too. I don’t care for Ed.* I like Paul, and I like Lindsay (though they haven’t been paying her much attention lately).
*That could be especially because I faint, and have injured myself. You can’t freakin’ work through that, and it would be crazy to try around flaming pits. Idiot.
Molester is not a preference
@Caine
I enjoy it far to much to dispense with it, but your whining is noted.
SC – Cute cat pic. I admit that I am not a cat person. However, they make good emergency slippers in a blizzard.
(Running for cover)
Nerd, glad the Redhead is being transferred. Good luck to her on all things.
I think this video reminds us there can be no peaceful solution between atheists and the religious people. No peaceful solution.
They do not believe in right and wrong. They believe that for them, everything is permitted. When they say that morals come from God and that without got there is no foundation for morals, they show they are depraved and degenerate amoralists who believe that authority equals asskicking. Many of them are kind and gentle people, but they are acting contrary to their metaethics which dull human sympathy and innate moral sense.
God makes things right and wrong because he can kick our asses in hell forever if we cross him. That is what they believe. They are degenerates who understand nothing but force.
One can never be free against such an enemy until one has the power to exercise force to stop them opposing us. They are degenerates who seldom understand anything else. Never count on reason and sympathy to stop them. Deep down, they just don’t care about such things.
^^ This. I’m glad someone else feels the same way as I do on this subject.
Competitive talent shows of all kinds are a national obsession in the UK, even more so than the US. People talk about them all the damned time, on and on and on and on. And, to be fair, it’s not just the godawful stupid ones like The X Factor and Strictly Come Dancing; there are actually some better-quality shows, like Masterchef, The Great British Bake Off and Maestro, in which the subject-matter itself is quite interesting and in which people learn actual useful things from actual experts.
Nonetheless, when back home I can barely sit through them, for precisely the reason you describe. Everything has to be a goddamn competition, because apparently people love competitions. And every single one follows the same damned format: “one of our contestants will not be joining us next week…” *long pause* *melodramatic music*, before the name of the unlucky “loser” is finally announced, followed by tears and so forth. It’s particularly ghastly when the viewers get to vote to decide the result.
Personally, I hate competition of any kind, and like to have as little of it in my life as possible. (Hence why I have always studiously ignored sports, and wish I could ignore party politics.) This is just one of the many reasons why I don’t have a TV, and, when living alone, live a life blissfully free of any TV shows whatsoever.
“Molester is not a preference”
Ing, I just don’t know about that. Is it hardwired and they have no choice? Is it a choice they made? I seriously don’t get it.
I have fantasies, and share fantasies with my SOs, but I don’t get how I can know someone as a friend and they do something that is just fucking wrong.
@Sailor
Pedophile=/= molester.
Killfile.
Thanks.
I wasn’t, either, until I met those two. I was accused yesterday of being a canine traitor because of my attachment to the cats, but I have enough love to go around!
*ignores the rest of Jeffrey’s comment*
For anyone wondering about Varnish, its author says:
Everyone’s Doing Everything Wrong™
He’s a bit like that.
/psa
(Wry and slightly wicked smile in SC’s direction)
Carlie:
I agree, it has been draggy and on the boring side. I’m totally with you on the challenges, I get very annoyed by group challenges, I want to see people cook – give them individual challenges and let them go!
Er… what the fuck is wrong with you? How many religious people do you actually know personally? This is an extremely broad, sweeping, offensive generalization in which you seem to be conflating a particular subset of religious people with the whole category. (For one thing, you’re assuming that all religious people believe in hell and in the divine command theory of ethics; neither assumption is accurate. And you’re ignoring the incredible diversity and variety of religious beliefs and practices, lazily lumping several billion people into a single archetype.)
If you think Desmond Tutu is a “degenerate who understands nothing but force”, I can only wonder whether you live on the same planet that I do. And I, for one, would rather make common cause with the likes of Desmond Tutu than with the likes of Franc Hoggle, Pat Condell, or even Sam Harris.
@ changeable moniker:
Aaah, thanks for the info. Better that than to think the FTB server was kept together by the
duct-tapevarnish on the box ;)PZ, that youtube clip made me sad. But also happy to see what good company I’m in…!
@Esteleth, #4
Yep. My girlfriend and I once had a bizzare discussion with a group of guys in a bar in New York who said they hated gay men for precisely that reason… “we don’t want any guy thinking of us as objects the way women are to us”. My girlfriend told me afterwards “I think of them as objects. A sack of utterly useless tools.”
SC, the cat in the basket is cute. I’m not so sure about the rainbow, however. I don’t associate rainbows with cats in baskets.
been out all day. didn’t notice the site was out.
Meanwhile.
Video : Good video, even if it showed some distressing facts. Part of me wants to shake my fist and yell back “oderint dum metuant! ”
Ogvorbis : happy birthday.
Re: Santorum: yeah, he’s a C streeter. those guys should scare anybody, let alone un-believers.
There should have been a smiley in the last comment. I get bored of doing them, and nervous when I don’t. Here’s a spare -> ;)
I remember reading in Philip Gourevitch’s We Wish to Inform You… (and my quick search reminds me that it was on page 177)about Tutu berating an audience of Rwandans – including victims – shortly after the genocide, demanding “Are you stupid? Are you stupid?”
The gender analyzer sussed me as male but put it at 50%.
Nope. Maybe the vinegar can go play with the pickles, celeries and peas.
–
Not silly at all. And while the pecans aren’t absolutely essential to the recipe in the same way that eggs are, here as in so very many things, the addition of pecans makes it even better.
–
Jeffrey, you keep your icy cold feet out of my cats!
–
Francisco Bacopa: way to make broad, sweeping over-generalisations, dude.
One Size doesn’t necessarily Fit All.
–
Thanks!
You have to watch the linked video!
Carlie
You are not the only person who arrghed at the phhtt article on Nicolas Steno
It has been edited several times today and now reads as-
alanbagain
I like rocks,fossils, and earth science in general. Iapetus was another possibility but I prefer Tethys. I leapt into the commenting fray during the height of the Rebeccapocolypse so I didn’t put a whole lot of thought into the choice.
If you would care to explain (or provide a link to further reading) how sand dunes could form underwater I would appreciate it. It was my understanding that sand dunes are by definition formed by wind. Ripples have a very different structure than dunes, so I don’t find it accurate to refer to them as such.
cicely – my feet are quite warm, the cat skins just add traction. That said, the cats of the myrmidons of PZ’s Playhouse are quite safe.
*makes face* I love both, but these should not come anywhere near each other. And what are deviled eggs without paprika?
Very happy birthday to Oggie of the many relations. I hope you are enjoying your steak.
Glad to hear that Redhead of Nerd has improved enough to be moved.
Hope that the snowfall is minor. It’s only been light flurries here, and I generally get your weather 18 to 24 hours before it reaches you.
One can make common cause with a religious leader when it suits desirable ends, but ultimately we cannot be free until religious people become an oppressable minority. Notice I did not say “oppressed minority”. We will treat them better than they have treated us because we are better than they are. But the power of religious people must be eroded until we dominate. We cannot be free until they are weak.
Dudes like Bishop Tutu? He’s mostly cool. I think he managed to rise to a position of influence in a liberal denomination that did not dull his moral reasoning and gave him a position of influence. MLK is a good example of another such leader. I admire them. There may be other such leaders who will help fight for human freedom. They can serve their purposes and merit our honor. But humanity will not be free until the yoke of religion is largely cast off and confined to marginalized groups with little influence.
Yes, I know religious people. Most of them I dare not speak my mind to. Sometimes the most mild-mannered of them resort to hate, rage, and shame when you get too close. There are very few of them I can trust.
Really? Damn. I’ve always admired Tutu very much on many levels. Not just his anti-apartheid activism; he’s also spoken out in recent years against homophobia and for LGBT equality, which is certainly not a popular position among Christian leaders in Africa. But I’d never heard this account before. It’s disappointing. I guess this illustrates how foolish it is to treat anyone as a hero.
(Relatedly, I just got back a couple of hours ago from a documentary screening of I Came To Testify: Women, War and Peace in Bosnia. It’s a very powerful film, about which I may write more later when I have energy to put my thoughts in order properly.)
Absolutely scrumptious!
Mind you, I don’t have any problems with paprika (it’s not like it’s fennel, f’rinstance), but I like the cinnamon better.
–
Re: homophobia
I actually had that conversation with some straight guys–buddies of StrangeBoyfriend’s from law school. We were hanging out and considering what bar to go to. I proposed Bar X, but mentioned that it’s pretty popular the non-straight crowd. “Oooh, I don’t know about that,” was the response.
“Why?” I asked.
“Well, they just make me feel… uncomfortable.”
“Why is that?”
“Well, I’m sort of afraid that they might treat me like a piece of meat.”
“Yeah, or that they might take no for an answer.”
I was like, “Guys, welcome to my world!!”
I don’t know about those dudes, but it made an impression on StrangeBoyfriend.
Mudpuddles @ 164
HAHAHA good for her.
As far as how to keep up with the threads on Pharyngula? Well, I don’t know about the rest of the folks here, but I am a lonely loser shut-in type. No kids, no pets. Though that will change soon when I move in with my sister, her husband and baby daughter, and their dog and three cats.
Yes, you can google it. It’s an account and not a video, so I wouldn’t take its accuracy for granted. On the other hand, I can’t imagine Gourevitch inventing it out of whole cloth.
I’m not thrilled about his “Oppressed people will win because God’s on your side” rhetoric, either. It’s easy to say “Oh, it gives people reason to hope,” but on the other hand it leads people away from thinking about their own (or others’) work and efforts, and it’s false.
***
Is this some sort of sick joke? :)
Nonono. I r srs persn. This r srs preference.
:D
–
I’ve only deviled eggs a few times, and I’ve never paprikaed them, but I have it in the pantry, so I guess I could for the color at least. I don’t think I could imagine them without pickle juice.
Fuck you, craigore.
Pussy you clearly know about and just don’t care, but it’s already been pointed out to you that pansy is an anti-gay slur and is also unacceptable.
You are a lazy smug fuckwit.
Some people “enjoy” using racial epithets, too. That doesn’t stop it being a shitty thing to do.
@NovaC – so you know, I relayed K’s blog post to BoingBoing, whose populace gets rabid about dangerous misuse of stupid intellectual property laws. Maybe you could submit it too, since your comments here go into so much detail? (There’s a direct-submit form, not the Submitterator.)
And it’s especially grotesque given the role of the local Church in the genocide and the Vatican’s response.
@ SC, Walton:
I found a page where Gourevitch is interviewed about his book and here’s what he has to say about Tutu:
SC, is this the incident you’re thinking about?
I agree with what Gourevitch said about Tutu “not getting it” at the time. But it does sound less damning that the short version of the story.
Sorry, forgot to give the link! Here it is:
http://www.booknotes.org/FullPage.aspx?SID=115511-1
Really? I have religious friends. I’ll admit, and it’s rude to ‘test’ people, but I made sure they know all my views under the assumption that they wouldn’t be my friends anymore if they couldn’t handle it. They still ask me to go to their parties and we talk about life instead of religion, so that’s good.
I also go to coffee with this really old dude who’s been a lifelong christian. He works with addicts a lot, just on his own, and I mean in the sense of trying to be their friend and feed them sometimes and help them get proper treatment, with no regard as to religion.
I’m sure he thinks he’s a good person because of his religion, but I think he’s a good person in spite of it.
I hate the christian God almost as irrationally as christians believe in it. I mean I hate their god on a personal level, even knowing it’s a sham. It’s kinda weird that way. I feel no shame in loathing their stupid, petty, murdering sheep-god.
But I will not allow it to translate into automatic hate for the people who hold the beliefs. A vast many of them are only holding the beliefs because it’s what they were born into and raised with, and that includes many of us as well. There are some truly monstrous people in religion, but they’re monstrous precisely because they can use religion to manipulate otherwise ‘good’ people into contributing to their warped causes.
If they reject me because I won’t believe, I’ll spit in their faces. But the christians I know haven’t done that to me. And I have tested them. Believe me. I pushed it HARD. It wasn’t necessarily nice of me, but hey, at least I know they don’t suck.
That’s right – I’d forgotten he’s an Anglican. Ignore my last comment.
It does? That’s exactly the passage from the book. This was an audience that included victims.
That’s essentially the passage from the book.
“For the first time, Restaurant Wars will be a battle of the sexes.”
GROSS, SHOW.
Moggie:
Why do you think I used the scarequotes? ;^)
***
SC:
Go ahead and talk; I’m just starting to watch RW, and the LCK eps have (finally) shown up on OnDemand: I won’t come back to the keyboard ’til I’m all caught up!
I know. Why? Why, why, why? Why don’t they divide them by blood type or something else equally useless that doesn’t have potential negative social consequences?
They’re never into it, either. Why, show?
I will go back and catch up.
But for now I would like to say that muckrosift werd’s maulmerge can take itself to the deepest pits of hell with as many porcupines as can fit. and buuuurn in the stink.
and the fucking “wizard” should be … should have Dave make it sing “Daisy”.
—
RUM!!!!
craigore:
No whining, simply information. Use of gendered slurs is not welcome here. You’re free to go somewhere else where you can continue to use pussy or pansy. Using them here? No. Have a decaying porcupine, I’m sure you know what to do with it.
So, craigore, you enjoy using language that marginalizes women and GLBT people. Why don’t you admit it, instead of accusing Caine of “whining,” you dishonest anal polyp?
SC, #192: For fuck’s sake. I went and Googled that passage out of curiosity after you mentioned it. He wasn’t blaming victims. He was trying to rally the Rwandans. “Are you stupid?” was a rhetorical question designed to elicit a roaring, “NO!”
If Gourevitch in Irene’s quote is correct, not only was Tutu not blaming victims, he was failing to blame perpetrators. But he certainly wasn’t insulting the Rwandans. How you could read that passage twice and come away with that impression is beyond me.
They should have had Restaurant Wars a couple of episodes ago when they had more people. This few is madness.
@ SC:
I said it sounded (at least to me) less bad than your short account of the passage in the book, because according to Gourevitch, Tutu didn’t say to victims “you are stupid”, but “do you want people to say that Africans are stupid” for crying, i.e., he was trying to boost their pride in themselves, to make them say (and feel) “we can survive this”.
Where Gourevitch thinks he was wrong (and I agree there) is that in Rwanda, it was not a question of Whites oppressing Blacks, as in South Africa during the Apartheid. It’s also possible that Tutu didn’t grasp the enormity of what Rwandans had gone through during the genocide, and it wasn’t yet time for a “Justice and Reconciliation” process like what was done in South Africa during the same period.
But I doubt that he could have been blinded to the genocide out of concern of what the Vatican or the local churches thought. He’s not a Catholic and has often criticised the RCC.
For fuck’s sake, yourself.
As I mentioned to Walton to do.
Some of those people were fucking victims of genocide. Acting obliviously as to this fact is beyond callous. You do not rally people who’ve suffered horrifically by demanding that they declare that they’re not stupid like the idiot Europeans (who totally have no history of genocide) allegedly think they are.
Carlie:
From the first season, they have always done Restaurant Wars when it’s down to eight people.
Then, SC, perhaps you should have said that initially, instead of implying that Tutu was berating victims of genocide for being stupid.
No, he asked them repeatedly to answer “Are you stupid?”
For crying. Over genocide. Yes, that would be so stupid.
They had survived it. And none of it has anything to do with stupidity. Jesus fuck.
Caine – I thought they usually did it with five each; I remembered wrong.
All I’m gonna say to Craigore is that I’m very glad I don’t think like you anymore.
For some reason I have more friends this way. Being my own person is cool and all, but I like friends.
Look, I quoted him exactly, gave the title and page number, and told walton and others to google it.
Okay, fine. I didn’t address the bit that they were crying and he was trying to shame them out of it. That was definitely wrong.
Elimination: No! Aaaaarggh, got rid of the wrong person!
@The Laughing Coyote
It is not weird to despise fictional characters. I know I have said it before, but for example, I (and many other people) hate Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter even though she is a fictional villain.
Not at all happy with that elimination. Damn.
Annoyed as hell with FTB at the moment, too, so probably best to sign off for the day and watch Revenge.
Where’s my corn-mimicking anus?
Hmm?
Funny how everyone’s talking about elimination and Josh comes in talking about anuses…
@ SC:
Look, you’ve read that passage a certain way, fine. But I still don’t agree with you after reading it. I don’t see that Tutu was trying to “shame” victims here. And that’s not what Gourevitch says either. He doesn’t blame Tutu for that, but for thinking in terms that apply in South Africa (Whites vs. Blacks) but not in Rwanda. As he was there, I can only assume he knows what he’s talking about.
I also think that you are being too literal, here. “Stop crying” can be a metaphor: we don’t need to assume the spectacle of a callous man berating tearful people who just escaped the knives of their attackers! Gourevitch describes the talk as a “call-and-response” sermon: in other words, formalised, rhetorical speech to engage emotionally an audience. Not a literal accusation of stupidity.
Anyway, as neither you nor I were there, the point is moot. We can only read the account for ourselves, and make up our minds. Just give me enough credit that I did read it, and thought about it.
So we agree! You seem to thing that his faith has the potential to deaden his sympathy, but that he found reason within his faith for his sympathies to be magnified. Sometimes this happens and I am grateful that it does. But overall faith deadens sympathy.
Again we agree. I think we secularists cannot be free nor can the whole human species thrive until the people who believe in such things are diminished and marginalized such that we can counter them with force when they act, though it would be better if they would be weakened such that they not dare act.
I have suffered more than these people in the video. Two fundies held me down and one beat me with a twirling baton as my homeroom teacher watched and smiled. Children do what their parents dream of when they can get away with it. The fundies want to beat and kill us. We will not be free until we have the power to do the same to them, even though we will usialy refrain from using it because we are better than they are.
You’re wrong. If you really read the passage in the book, you’d note the last sentence: “Stranger still to be told to shut up and stop acting like stupid blacks.” That’s his characterization of Tutu’s words, and if he’s reporting them accurately it seems a correct one to me. If you read the section and came to a different conclusion about Tutu’s meaning, fine. I don’t see how you can fail to appreciate the cluelessness, callousness, and disgusting condescension, but that’s your take. But don’t confuse it with Gourevitch’s.
@ Ms. Daisy
Do you honestly think that when I say “let’s not be pansies” I am somehow saying “let’s not be women or let’s not be lgbt”? Ridiculous, as women are not “pansies,” lgbt people are not “pansies” – or pussies or sissies. People who liken them to those words are idiots with little actual experience of either group. It is most definitely a horrible stereotype, which is ironically being reinforced when you insist on implying that I am referring to them in that usage when I am not. It is reinforced by making these words forbidden on that basis. I am however strictly using it to refer to people who choose to be weak of character, not for who they are, and is something that can be made quite explicit (like using the word ‘bitching’ to refer to the act of complaining and not to the act of a woman). And yes I will find words to chastise people who make the choice of being thin skinned or weak of character (be it sissy, wuss, baby, etc.) regardless of who has a problem with it. If some words are just too loaded I can alternate. But I will not altogether strip them from my vocabulary.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/cornmimickinganus2.png/
Josh:
Recent studies on Cornholius goatsei have found that the polyps on its external colon contain an extract that smells and tastes exactly like melted butter. How this aids them in catching chickens (which have little to no sense of taste or smell) is unknown at this time. However scientists are looking into the extract as a possible low-fat butter alternative.
I got a knife in here in my pocketbook. . .
SC, your cat in a basket is bee-yooo-tiful! What’s his(?) name?
HAHAHAHAHHAAH! Cornholious goatsei got that chicken in its
bellybackside!TLC
Have you seen the cover of the most recent Lee Valley catalogue?
knives!!!
(it takes a while to load)
Chigau: WHOAH. I wonder if they’re gonna start selling ‘haft your own blade’ kits?
Craigore, drop the sexist language. It’s not appreciated here.
Thank you! (Feels funny saying that.) He has to remain anonymous. :)
Hmm, nothing about them in the catalogue. Still, awesome. I like the ‘primitive folder’ second right (apparently folding knives of that design were in use even in Roman times) and the two inlaid handles best.
Do so. For the terms sissy, pansy, pussy, wuss, bitch, and variants thereof (this list is not exhaustive), find alternates when posting here. Or prepare to have a very unpleasant experience.
Craigore: It doesn’t matter what you ‘mean’ by it when you use sexist language and such. You’re contributing to a pattern of oppression, whether you mean to or not. Some of the posters here may remember how it feels to have these words used to demean them firsthand.
When people who aren’t actual sexists and homophobes use sexist and homophobic language, actual sexists and homophobes take it as implicit support whether you mean it that way or not.
Stop supporting sexists and homophobes.
@ TLC [previous TET]
Enjoyed your cartoon. Moar!
@ Brogg
Hippobirdies (imagines cartoon)
@ Nerd
*hugs* {Please pass on to Redhead}
@ Markita Lynda 35
Now consider the gun lobby. They feel they are going to be emasculated by anti-gun regulations. (Part of the same dingleberry cluster of menZisms.)
@ Minnie The Finn (She of the modern, sinfull dancing.) 36
I was in Kunming yesterday and went to a mushroom restaurant in a whole steet of mushroom restaurants for a large hotpot full of mushrooms. Om Nom!
@ We Are Ing 64
That is one of the saddest things I have read in a very long time. Are these people really from the same planet as us? Their solution to abuse is to gloss over it then perpetuate it in another form?
@ Pteryxx 86
I cross the border out of China very regularly. And experience an inverse discrimination. I have never been stopped (thankfully) as a furryner.
@ Josh 213
TLC posted linky to his cartoon in previous thread. (I’ll let you do the search… I must get out of bed now … past 1pm – and it is a work day. I blame TET)
TLC
re knives
Yeah. Nice cover pic, no content.
I liked the far left.
It looks like it was cold-forged from an old file.
cicely, Destroyer of Mint writes:
…
5) add some Miracle Whip™ (I don’t know how much; just enough)
…
Clearly a “Christian”. No good atheist would ever introduce a malignant, sugary, HFCS-laden, vinegar-free ersatz product like “Miracle Whip™” into a genuine foodstuff meant for human consumption.
And no paprika? I don’t know what these stuffed egg things are, but what they are NOT is deviled eggs.
/eyesoars
—-
Miracle Whip™: Water, soybean oil, vinegar, high fructose corn syrup, sugar, modified food starch, eggs, salt.
Who are you?
I ♥ the intertubes.
Three hours of sumō and the jūryō division is just beginning …
A biker or hotrod enthusiast, perhaps?
Oh man, I found a new ‘How To Train Your Dragon’ short online.
It’s called ‘The Book of Dragons’ and fills you in on all those cool dragons they just hint at in the movie. I love how they’re portrayed as real(ish) animals with actual survival adaptations and stuff.
Dam
they’re re-fighting
that NEVER happens
Good morning
SC
Sorry, dog person here.
Proud not-owner of two bunnies.
Although there was a cat once who broke my heart.
Sadly, that was in the South of Spain. Taking a cat back in car over 2500km is a bad idea when you’re allergic to them.
Homophobia
OK, if we follow the hypothesis that straight men are actually afraid of being at the receiving end of manly man attentions, it should follow that straight women are much less homophobic, at least towards men.
Media seems to reflect/enforce that idea (the gay buddy you’Re totally safe with because, you know, he’s gay, so you can actually risk to fall asleep on his couch while black-out drunk).
Personally, that’s the reason why I only went clubbing at gay clubs: The men were “safe” and if the women were interested they just asked. Much better than being ignored by the women and groped by the men.
I laughed at the Homophobia Hypothesis. Someones gotta put that on a t-shirt.
Would definitely be worth a study to find out how much truth it contains. Then we could double slap these mysoginist assholes everytime we mention said study.
Have they ever actually gotten to the Restaurant Wars episode with enough women left to make a boys/girls standoff before? I guess that’s something, at least. I know I’ve never seen one where half of the winning team turns on the other half after they win and keeps griping at them.
Okay, I’m popping in to a thread of this nature again to talk with you guys, but this time for an entirely different reason.
I want to apologise.
No, don’t reload your browsers, I’m being serious.
It was hugely, no scratch that, MASSIVELY inappropriate for me to launch into an “Atheists are wrong” screed on the thread related to the “witch” torturing incident. I can’t apologise enough for also dismissing it as “just ONE example” of bad behaviour based on faith, even without the education I later received from people on these boards about further horrific acts committed by religious followers.
Furthermore, however, it was wrong of me to take the “morally and intellectually superior” tone that I used with you guys, especially since I had never really debated with any atheists that cared as much about their atheism as you guys before, and I’ve spent the longest time believing that philosophy held the best forms of answers about the deeper questions of life. It’s been something of a shock to me, then, that people have been calling me out on this and educated me on the fact that science is not only just as reliable but is in fact MORE SO than philosophy. So again, I can’t apologise enough for my blind attachment to philosophy and distrust of scientific contradictions against God that I previously held.
The final apology I need to issue comes for the blind faith I held in God. I came here to criticise the New Atheist movement, only to realise that I couldn’t make any real VALID criticisms unless I could actually demonstrate that my God exists first. I tried to hand-wave this by claiming that I didn’t need to do any such thing and making appeals to “popularity of beliefs”, but as I saw the well-constructed arguments that showed me that this sort of judgment was completely baseless, I’ve ended up having to truly question whether I was ever justified to be a Christian.
The conclusion is, I didn’t. I was a Christian because of 1) Family and friend influence, 2) Positive memories of Church, 3) The “First Cause” argument which I will now admit was deeply flawed, 4) Philosophical outlooks, and 5) Just pure faith with no evidence to back it up. These, on reflection, were never good reasons for me to be a Christian or to hold God belief of any good, nor were they any good foundation for me to base my morals on. Thanks to what people here have done, I’ve realised that ultimately I should have been basing my morality on secular and indeed humanistic values, values that from now on I am implementing into my life.
So, from the bottom of my heart, I’m deeply sorry for the offence I’ve caused here, both because of the thread I hijacked to air viewpoints I held which I now view as being terribly ill-informed and inappropriate, and because of the severe ignorance I showed of what constitutes morality amongst atheists and of the standards of evidence that constitutes a real theory as opposed to just viewing science with fear if it’s claiming God very likely doesn’t exist, and that I shouldn’t just cling to philosophy even when it was becoming clear that I was irrational to do so.
My experience here both on Pharyngula and on Greta and AXP has been an eye-opener in more ways than one. I have done a self-examination of my conscience and of my critical thinking abilities and found that I can no longer use religion as a guide for life when I can’t honestly justify the beliefs I held.
As someone that is now, ironically, a New Atheist who can’t dispute the need for getting arguments on existence and morality related issues “out into the world”, I again say that I am sorry for what I have done, that I deserve to have been humbled and that I hope you can forgive me for the uneducated insensitivity that I displayed.
Thank you for your time,
James
I can haz cute
BFF
Jamesmichaels1: Wow – all I can say is that if that post was honest (I hope it was), then welcome aboard! As someone who never held a god-belief, the experiences of those who do experience a shift in world-view interest me; I hope that you’ll feel free to keep posting here and discussing your ideas and new experiences. Sometimes the atmosphere around here can be a little rough-house, but if you deal fairly and honestly with people you’ll never find a better bunch of caring, clever, all-round-decent human beings – and all without the need for magical thinking to make them so.
And the Endless Thread is off-topic – you can ‘pop in’ with anything you’d like to talk about, so don’t worry about changing the ongoing subjects.
jamesmichaels – As a former Christian, I can tell you that if things happened exactly as it seems from your post, you’re probably in for some difficult times. Depending on the level of your involvement, it can be a really huge change, and it’s really emotionally jarring. It can also be quite painful, if Christianity is a big part of your identity and family life. It comes not just with figuring out who you are now, but can come with embarrassment at believing something for so long that was not true, anger at opportunities you may have missed, guilt at having proselytized to other people in a way that dehumanized them, and possibly desire (or just a tendency) to transfer the zealotry you formerly had for Christianity to the new beliefs you hold now. I guess I’m just providing a warning that it’s not all sunshine and rainbows, but that you may have fallout for some time to come.
Please know that most of us here don’t approach the idea of changing from Christianity to atheism as a point on some kind of cosmic scorecard, or that we’re oh so superior and isn’t it grand. Many of us were very deep into various religions at one point, and then just realized that objectively, religion doesn’t measure up on describing reality.
Ah. So you’ve been to the town.
And one of them (can’t remember which) ended up absonding to France to avoid multiple pornography charges.
No, no, no. You got it wrong.
1. Prayer in school.
2. something, something, something
3. Full Employment!
That’s how Christianity/conservatism/tax cuts/Islam works: every problem can be solved by invoking Jesus/Reagan/Reagan/Allah. And if it can’t, you just don’t believe in Tinkerbell.
The steak was fantastic. I fried it in a touch of olive oil, with smoked salt and a pepper blend, deglazed the pan with a little Harpoon Winter Beer and will be having the final third for lunch today. And I got mildly soused. I had a Harpoon while cooking dinner. Then I had two Ommegang Duppel’s with dinner. The Ommegang is, bar none, the best beer I have ever had — smooth, just enough bitterness, great taste, no aftertaste, and a head that went on forever. Wow. And that was the first time since college that I have had three beers in one night. Will not happen again.
Oh, for fuck’s sake, craigore. Are you really that limited in your knowledge of the English language, and the slang thereof, that you are unable to express yourself without using words that you know (and you know because you have been told ad nauseam) will either hurt, silence, or piss off people?
Oh. I got a great case of eyesoars last summer from the top of Whiteface Mountain in New York.
James:
There are a few regulars here who initially showed up as intentional antagonists and, through argument and the rough and tumble way of things here, have become respected commenters. We may not always agree (sometimes vehemently), but the give-and-take is always useful in viewing reality.
And good luck out there in meatspace. You’re gonna need it. If you need advice, remember that nothing is off topic on The Endless Thread. You may not like the advice, but it will, in many cases, be quite useful.
True, though i rather like the idea of having a score card against “truly dribbly accomodationism”.
Yep, good luck Jamesmichaels1, and welcome to the fold!
Mwhahahah…
(joking)
jamesmichaels – good luck. Change hurts when it involves growth, but I think it will be worthwhile for you. My only advice it to go slowly and think about what you are doing, especially when it involves relationships with people important to you. In no way do I recommend avoiding change or hiding same from others. Just be aware that some relationships will change. Many will change for the better, but not all.
I now close my fortune cookie fortune factory for the day.
Maryam Namazie is exactly right:
QFT.
(I often disagree with Maryam Namazie; I think she was entirely wrong to support the burqa ban in France, for instance. But on this issue she’s hit the nail on the head, and I’m glad she’s speaking out on this – especially since the “anti-Sharia-Law” campaign in the UK is so often used by the right as a pretext for supporting limits on immigration.)
Speaking of whom, I was just going to link to Namazie’s latest post.
James-
I just want to add that philosophy is a useful tool for finding out answers to hard questions. Philosophy and science are completely compatible and the reason philosophy was providing you with false conclusions is very likely the fact that you were making false assumptions. Not because philosophy is an improper method of gaining knowledge.
So my advice is: definitely fill up on science, but maybe have a little philosophy for dessert.
Well if a country was “full” but rumour had it that the place was a good place to go and immigrants were getting stuck there and in misery then you might want to limit immigration through public policy.
HOWEVER that is a pure FANTASY. It also ignores history, our own involvement in said misery and the fact that these people will use any tool to push their racist agenda. Especially ones that “appear” reasonable on the surface.
I’m also bemused that immigration should be mentioned at the same time as Sharia law. Then I died laughing that any statement after this should involve the phrase “not a racist…” said with a straight face.
@ jamesmichaels
Welcome on board! I go along with what Emrysmyrddin, carlie, Brogg, ricardodivali, JeffreyD et al have said.
Except for this one thing: Subjects on TET… In spite of what has been said about “anything goes on TET”, it must be said that the following subjects are more equal than others: Cats, rodents, tardigrades, food, recipes, beer, tea (loose leaf, NOT bagged), languages, engineers, physicists, maths, spanking, free-will (recommend posting on this subject between 1 and 7 am Minnesota central time)
…. on the other hand, subjects that are held in lower esteem: squids, octopi, biologists, tea made in mugs (do not mention using teabags), zebrafish…. etc etc. You will soon get the hang of it.
@ Walton
As usual.
The niqab is an out and out symbol of women’s oppression in repressive, religious states. Its meaning does not change from one street to the next in our global village. (It is not even required by imaginary mohammad ™ in the first place.)
Yes, indeed. Anti-immigration laws are institutionalized racism, and they come at a terrible human cost. Refugees and asylum-seekers are treated very badly in most Western countries; and when the system makes errors, they often get deported back to places where they face torture, rape and death. (Asylum-seekers have the burden of convincing an immigration officer or a judge that they are eligible for asylum; for a refugee who may not speak English and may not have access to adequate legal advice, this is not an easy task.) In many countries, including Britain, refugees (including children) are detained for years in shitty conditions: see, for instance, the appalling maltreatment of immigrant women detained at the Yarl’s Wood detention centre, many of whom are refugees and victims of rape and torture in their home countries.
Nor is the humanitarian impact of immigration controls limited to refugees; economic migrants, though often treated as less “deserving” of protection, suffer too. Undocumented economic migrants are often people who are desperately trying to escape poverty in their home countries; as long as some parts of the world are much poorer than others, and there is a demand for migrant labour, this will continue. But governments, instead of recognizing and welcoming economic migration, try to restrict it – with the result that undocumented migrants who are trapped in situations of exploitation can’t come forward for protection, for fear of being deported. Not only does this facilitate exploitation in the workplace, it also protects domestic abusers, who can threaten to report their victim to the immigration authorities if she tries to leave the relationship or seek police protection. This problem isn’t limited to undocumented migrants, either; guestworkers on temporary visas, such as the H-1 visa in the US (which ties migrants to working for single employers, with the threat of deportation if they try to change jobs), or migrants who are on spousal or other dependent visas that do not allow them to work, are also at high risk of exploitation and abuse.
Plus, aside from this, just think about how arbitrary the whole thing is: why should the place of one’s birth or the colour of one’s passport determine where one is allowed to live and work, or what civil rights one should have? It’s disgusting. And the latest spate of anti-immigration efforts in the US, like the Alabama and Arizona bills, are really just naked racism, a modern equivalent to Jim Crow laws.
Which does not mean that it is helpful to arrest women for wearing it. For women who choose to wear it – and there are some – arresting them is an unwarranted and illegitimate restriction on their freedom of choice. For women who are forced into wearing it by abusive spouses or families, the law makes things worse for them, not better, putting them under virtual house arrest.
See also:
[emphasis added]
Trying to “liberate” people by telling them what to wear, under threat of force, is a stupid idea. Rather than telling Muslim women what is good for them, and imposing it by law, the state could try actually listening to their wishes.
(I should add that I know there are understandable, legitimate reasons why people on the secular left are opposed to the burqa and niqab. And I sympathize strongly with those reasons. But trying to stamp it out, using the blunt instrument of a criminal prohibition, won’t work; the ban makes life worse for women, it takes away their agency and their freedom of choice, and in many cases it drives them out of the public square entirely and prevents them working outside the home. And it plays right into the hands of the xenophobic lobby that just want to drive Muslims out of the public square.
It’s very much like the War on Drugs; it’s the error of leaping from “X is a social problem” to “We should outlaw X and arrest people who do X”. Have many people’s lives been ruined, and families and communities been destroyed, by substances like heroin and meth? Yes, absolutely. Does that mean that banning these substances and jailing people for using them is a good idea? No, and doing so has made life worse, not better, for addicts and their families. Prohibitive laws almost always have unintended harmful consequences that end up worsening the social problems they’re meant to solve.)
Something else related to drugs…
“Stoned festivalgoers’ pee pollutes Swedish river” http://www.thelocal.se/38462/20120112/
Have you ever measured the content of nearby rivers before and after a skeptics meeting??? :-)
I can’t help noticing how the menz aren’t actually being punished as was “supposed to happen” under this stupid law, but the women are. Colour me so fucking surprised.
I hope this woman pepper sprays good and long. A person who attacks another for what they wear has no right to be walking the public streets regardless of what the law says.
In fact i’m surprised that people aren’t suing the government for encouraging both racism and sexism by enshrining it in a law. This law is bad for all women after all.
Francisco, #216 and elsewhere: I believe that religious power should be marginalized in society. I am extremely wary of extending that marginalization to all believers… many of whom already are quite marginalized already (people of color, poor folks, women, prison inmates, etc.).
And remember that not all atheists are on “our side,” in that they’re libertarians or even conservatives. As uncomfortable as I am with most liberal xtians, I much prefer how they exercise their political power to how right-wing atheists exercise theirs.
craigore, #218: You have no idea how language works. At all. You do not get to define words by yourself. Communication depends on not just your intent but on context, perception, and the recipient.
TLC, #219: Awesome.
Josh, #220: Several years ago, I got a spam from “Dawn Davenport” and was highly amused.
James Michael, #241: Thank you for the apology. That speaks highly of you.
Ogvorbis, #246:
I don’t have to go to a mountaintop to get a case of eyesoars; all I have to do is drive down the nearest commercial strip.
shouldbeworking(#23) wrote:
Then this will make your head explode:
The Supreme Court of the United States has unanimously ruled in favor of a church/school and its firing of a minister/teacher based on the First Amendment’s protection of churches from government interference, even though the minister/teacher was fired due to a health issue!
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-553.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-discrimination-laws-do-not-protect-certain-employees-of-religious-groups/2012/01/11/gIQAIbO4qP_story.html
This is what I’ve tried to explain to my partner; that the desire to put off the niqab has to come from the women themselves, that it’s not right IMO to use the force of law; that it will always be seen as a divisive legal intrusion which should be fought against, further reinforcing distrust of ‘Western’ governments and their doublespeak around democratic rights (‘you’re free to wear what you want, as long as it’s not something we don’t like’ comes across as pretty doublespeak to me). If it comes from within, from a position of group enlightenment and emancipation rather than outside imposition, the result will be more tenacious and the agents of change – the women themselves – will have a right to be more proud of the freedoms that they themselves wrested.
This all comes with the qualifier that, although I’m female, grew up just outside Southall in the UK, and have therefore had many friends and students of different backgrounds, obviously this is JMO as I’m a white girl from a CofE background. I draw my opinion from looking at similar civil rights struggles, and I honestly think that the only real way the niqab can be discarded is through the encouragement of education and independence from family. The sorts of pressures that Asian and Muslim girls are put through are absolutely mad, from personal observation, and while many seem to blithely submit to the expectations of family, religion and culture, I’ve seen too many bright and independent girls who do not want the traditional life for themselves but have been stuffed peglike into that square hole to think that this submission is natural or healthy.
Change is coming, slowly. Although ‘Islamism’, or at least more visible signifiers of religion, is on the rise, I see it as an inevitable pushback against all the kids who have battled to go to Uni, to live their own lives once they’ve got there, and to break the chains of their family’s fundamentalist, ritualistic lifestyles. It’s similar to the US’ problem with fundie christians – the enclaves form because the mainstream society is beginning to look sideways at their rantings.
It gives me hope to see the next generation of human beings becoming more secular; they far outweigh the radicals and the fundamentalists in this country, no matter what the Telegraph or the Mail would have you believe about the UK.
QFT. I think you hit the nail on the head there.
There’s a big difference between wanting to combat the disproportionate power of the major religious institutions in our society (which I think is an important goal), and demonizing religious people in general. Bacopa is engaging in the latter. And I’m very, very uncomfortable with the more authoritarian wing of the atheist movement; I don’t see myself as an ally to someone like Sam Harris, given the way he demonizes Muslims and cheerleads for state violence in the “War on Terror”.
Also QFT.
Not eyesore, eyesoar, as in, ‘the beauty of this view allows me to (analogously) ‘soar’ with pleasure.’
Ogvorbis: Ah, k.
Regarding the niqab or hijab, seems to me that the atheists who push the hardest for its banning are libertarians, or just privileged sorts (*cough* Dawkins *cough*) who are all too happy to use women’s oppression under religion as a weapon against religion but aren’t willing to examine women’s oppression from other sources.
(I’m thinking of one person I know on LiveJournal who’s pro-ban. He’s also English and either middle or upper class, and he’s told Welsh people in re Wales having been colonized by England that they should “just get over it.”)
Stephen Harper, you are a suppurating cyst on the ass of Canada.
Depak Chopra has a video game
wait
WHAT?
Yep
Un-fucking-believable.
http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/12/should-the-times-be-a-truth-vigilante/?pagewanted=all
The NYTimes Public Editor really wants to know:
It’s not a poll exactly, but it is certainly worth Pharyngulating. I mean, seriously? “Should we call a lie a lie? Or would that be unfair?”
It makes me disgusted that this is even a question, but then, that does pretty much summarize the state of the America media these days.
Which strikes me as very counter-intuitive. One would think that libertarians would want to remove government from individual’s lives just as they want to remove government from all economic activity. I mean, I agree with your statement, but I still don’t understand how a libertarian of any stripe can be all for deregulating the economy while being all for regulating private life.
Sorry for not catching The Sailor’s post at #149.
Borked link, Daisy Cutter…
The good news is that the comments are overwhelmingly pointing out that checking what partisan actors claim are facts is part of what a journalist should be doing. The overall tone is one of contempt the question was even asked.
Privileged sorts, certainly, but not usually libertarians. In my anecdotal experience, most of the libertarians I know are strongly against the ban, since they see it (rightly, I think) as an unwarranted extension of state power. Those who support it tend to be more the authoritarian-xenophobic right-wing types, like UKIP in Britain.
when these people say Journalist…they mean stenographer apparently
I’ve had this link-borking problem several times (including when I tried to link to Maryam Namazie upthread). Based on trial and error, I think it happens when one omits to put the http:// in front of the link. It’s a bug in Freethoughtblogs that needs fixing.
Here’s Ms Daisy Cutter’s link, and I can only say that her description of Harper is entirely accurate.
What a ridiculous mess.
In case Ms. Daisy is busy
harper cyst
Walton was quicker.
I was varnishing gurus.
Harper is an evangelical christian who is expecting the end times soon.
It tends to colour his “thinking”.
Thanks, Walton and Chigau. Yeah, I’ve seen that happen to other posted links. At work, I’ve noticed that IE truncates the http:// in the address bar.
That’s not a bug. That’s standard HTML.
You may find it useful to go to about:config and toggle browser.urlbar.trimURLs to false.
276 :
So…. what was that about English “civil partnerships” being as good and legal as a “proper” marriage again?
BASTARDS!
TET is doing NOTHING for my blood pressure today I can tell you.
As old saying goes, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature… it’s an age old idea of making internal linking supposedly easier.
Of course, it does no such thing. It’s counter intuitive, and even worse, very inconsistently used.
I wouldn’t know whether it’s the blogging platform or the http server doing the mangling in this case. But the behaviour is configurable, somewhere.
I’m looking for an older essay about how geek communities are often too accepting, too unwilling to shun. Amanda Marcotte probably linked to it or summarized it once; at least I think that’s where I remember it from.
Modern browsers will assume http:// if nothing is specified. So even though it may not appear in the address bar it will have been added to the address by the browser.
Damn! The conspiracy goes even deeper than I thought!
And he named it after Futurama’s heroine! GAAAAHHHHH
(one Wiki visit later)
Leela is also the Hindu precursor game to Snakes and Ladders. Not sure whether Chopra’s game is the same or not, since his web site plays music, and must therefore not ever be opened ever.
Reminds me of a gay bar in Boise that had a gay-specific Bud Light neon sign. The swoosh under the name was in rainbow colors, see, and the slogan underneath it was “Be Yourself”. Almost made me want to have a drink there. I find that much more friendly and inviting than Bud’s heterosexual slogan, “RRRUUUHHHHH PARTAAAAAAYYYY”.
:) Yep. There’s no mangling in this case. Looking at the HTML source of Walton’s link at #249:
href="freethoughtblogs.com/maryamnamazie/2011/01/27/limiting-immigration-is-racist-why-not-limit-bankers-and-neocons/"
Since it lacks a protocol prefix, this is a local link.
(What you want is a mangler which notices what are probably base URLs and adds a protocol prefix.)
I would add that strictly speaking http:// does not form part of the address for a website. It is used to indicate to the browser (or other software) the protocol that the link uses. However it is possible to have different protocols directed to different servers.
Well but the new campaign is “Grab some Buds!”
This seems open to all kinds of interpretations, if not entendres.
#89 Matt Penfold
Maybe it’s the beard that confuses them?
LM #282:
Michael Suileabhain-Wilson’ “Five Social Geek Fallacies”, from 2003?
Ogvorbis, #269:
Because they’re only about freedom for white men.
Walton, #273: Maybe the UK differs from the US in that regard. I’ve seen Americans who identify as libertarians advocate for the ban. Of course, American libertarians are pretty right-wing (see preceding blockquote.)
Rey Fox:
The Coors family would shit themselves if they saw that. :D
Homophobia
I’m a bit wary of people suggesting that all men who are homophobic are in actuality closeted gays, which is a regular meme but which I feel is too flip and doesn’t examine the issues of privilege, power and opression close enough, but I feel more comfortable with the whole “afraid of romantic male attention” bit. I still don’t think it’s an “every single situation” kind of explanation (but then, nothing is!) but it certainly makes sense in terms of what I’ve witnessed.
Now I just wonder WHY these guys are so scared of male romantic interest expressed towards them? Is it because they themselves have a certain preconceived notion about how romantic interest is “supposed to be” expressed by men, that “romantic interest” from men includes but is not limited to things like pressuring your (prey) potential partner into stuff YOU want that may not be on THEIR menu and ignoring all “no” s and “I’m not interested” and badgering them until you get what you want? Are they maybe afraid of that being done to them?
I honestly wonder about that.
Burqa bans
As brilliantly noted by Miss Daisy, this is something that LOOKS feminist on the first glance but once you actually think about it, it’s pretty damn misogynistic. And colour me, too, unsurprised that it’s the women who are bearing the brunt of punishment both legislatively and socially for this “criminal” activity.
I can understand wanting stricter legislation to protect women from abuse and exploitation. However, while that may be what the intent of the legislation was (since I’m feeling generous right now, let’s say that hypothetically it really was the intent), that’s sure as shit not the result, which once again proves that intent is not magic.
In other women-hating news: Dood gets his workers to gang-rape, mutilate and then murder his ex wife and also murder her teenaged son. Man is labelled a monster. In the first piece I read about this, teh Menz barrage in * about how, if women just respected their partners, shit like this wouldn’t happen.
*Slight exaggeration, I’ll admit.
I’m sure there are pieces out there where this doesn’t happen, even in unmoderated comments, other than here. There must be. Right? I’m just running out of energy to look for them.
jamesmichaels
Great show. Questioning your own beliefs are hard and painful, even more so when it turns out that they have, indeed, been false. Good luck to you on your journey, and welcome.
Also in South Africa
Police arrest some of a mob who killed an elderly couple for witchcraft.
I love my country and am proud of the progress we’ve made, especially legislatively, and want to come down like a ton of bricks on the asshats who say “only in Africa” does this shit happen. The correct phrase is “also in Africa”, or even “Also in South Africa”, since we do have the ugly tendency to think ourselves better than our other African brethren. Last year’s Xenophobia attacks, anyone?
This world is one messed up place.
alanbagain
I did see your question in the last TET and answered you @ #172.
Geology…yay!
LDS “compassion” from Mittens.
Gen Fury:
If the only metaphor you have for sexual relations is a power dynamic, the thought of being at the losing end of such a dynamic might be debilitating – especially if you’re conditioned to believe that you will only ever be in the winning/aggressive position.
I’d say the basic mechanic is fear, with the explicit subjects varying by individual (fear of one’s own sexuality, fear of losing stature in society, fear of being forced into a submissive position, etc.).
I think it’s more likely a lack of control (they didn’t initiate) and being thrust outside your comfort zone very suddenly. There’s also the sudden two minds thing where you don’t know if to be flattered or offended. It seriously stuns the average male brain.
You are aware that there is no longer a Coors corporation. It merged with Miller a few years ago. It is now MillerCoors. But a member of the Coors family is the chairman of the joint venture.
Obviously, because their mode of expressing male romantic interest involves objectification, aggression, and degradation. When they have sex with a woman, they win and she loses. Being a fucker is good; being a fuckee means you’re subhuman. They don’t want to ever be reminded that they could also be a fuckee.
Indeed. So often, this is what goes very wrong with any attempt to solve social problems through prohibitive laws and authoritarianism: it ends up punishing and marginalizing the very people it is supposedly meant to “protect”. There are countless examples, anti-drug laws being the most obvious but by no means the only example. (And in the case of the burqa ban, of course, it also plays into the hands of far-right anti-Muslim xenophobes, who are disturbingly powerful in European politics generally.)
#294 Tethys says:
I saw your answer, thank you!
Couldn’t have said it better myself (although with an English accent). But you guessed that, I’m sure.
@james
It’s good to see you think things through. It wasn’t this fast for me. I don’t know how hard it will be for you to change, but best of luck.
Lunchtime! Tuna sandwiches. *drool*
My recipe for tuna sandwich goop:
5 oz. can of tuna
some sweet pickle relish
some Miracle Whip™
some French’s™ mustard
some pecans, coarsely chopped. Okay; lotsa coarsely chopped pecans.
(chopped boiled egg, optional)
Mix well; splop on good bread. Eat. *mmmmmm….*
–
And Tangy Zip™.
(And I am not a “Christian”, with or without scare quotes, of any stripe or color. You take that back!)
–
jamesmichaels, that sounds like a stunningly fast and thorough de-conversion. Welcome in, and I wish you the best with the almost-inevitable Real Life blow-back; you might want to brace yourself. And remember…there’s generally someone here you can talk to, Server permitting.
–
Peas.
–
Catching up on Top Chef, from last night….
Carlie:
Yeah, that was my first thought. (Perversely, I actually took notes while I was watching, and my first note is “Why, why, WHY make it a ‘Battle of the Sexes’? Arrgh!”)
SC:
My full, spoilery take is at my food blog, but I think they just didn’t think about it. The Battle of the Sexes trope seems to be the last “let’s split people up according to type” thing that still gets over. They would never, for instance, put Ed, Paul, and Bev on one team and call it Asians Versus Whites: It would be obvious to everyone that that was unacceptable. Sex and gender is still, quite clearly, in a cultural blind spot.
Carlie:
IIRC, it’s always 4-on-4. It would certainly be a more manageable task with more chefs, but there would be more potential for conflict and factionalism with bigger teams (which the producers would probably love, but I’m the apparently rare “reality” TV fan who doesn’t watch for the screaming).
Caine &SC:
I’m guessing you wanted a certain annoyingly restaurant-promoting person to go? I had the impression that that chef would have been eliminated, except that Tom C. took that person’s part (for whatever unfathomable reason) and overruled the other judges. It’s good to be the
kingChief Judge, eh?My general take-away was that I was surprised by Judges’ Table: I had thought, based on the comments we saw during service (both from the judges and the diners) that it would be a closer contest than it apparently was, and I thought the Judges’ Table critique of the losing team was far harsher than the in-process comments led me to expect.
I was also saddened by the behavior of the winning team, even after winning. In particular, their treatment of one chef continued an unfortunate pattern that I thought would have ended a couple weeks ago, after the elimination of its chief perpetrator.
(Was that vague enough to be non-spoiling, yet clear to those who’ve watched the ep? I tried….)
Yes, there’s some assumption of male predation in the fear of being hit on, but don’t forget this other component: it takes one to know one. There must be a reason why this one was hit on instead of that one, or so this one’s afraid his friends think.
It sounds a little like James was letting go of presuppositionalism? I hope we get to hear more.
You might also use this time to think about the moral implications of having no free will (it’s still possible to alter behavior). There’s no free will even with God, so these aren’t logically dependent issues, but they tend to be fellow travelers.
There’s a recent thread where this argument is on-topic, should you care to.
Love moderately, 305
Yes, if one lives with the doctrine that, as Sally so succintly put it, being a “fuckee” is bad and above all, FEMALE (or should that be female and above all bad? Chicken or egg?), I imagine the mindset that someone somehow “deserved” being hit on and that NO, of course that won’t happen to me, I’m a REAL MAN TEE EM, that guy must not be in some way.
Interesting how close that is to rape apologia and victim blaming, though by no means do I believe it coincidental.
Say, I recently found a story where a chemist is trying to make a self replicating cell from inorganic, metal containing compounds. It looks pretty cool: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20906-lifelike-cells-are-made-of-metal.html
Any comments from biologist here? What do you guys think about this experiment?
`Auto Draft` question mark
Cop kicks woman in head.
Anyone think that PZ would post this cat photo?
From the same blog I just linked to, ninteen ads that uses images of Hitler.
PZ
cleanup needed in the FGM thread.
The “you little rascals” thread is closed for some bizarre reason. So i’ll post here.
PZ:
Sorry PZ I thought you knew. The ghey memo must have been intercepted by this brave Bishop. We thought he was one of our secret agent cross dressers, it was very cunning.
Damn, the ghey gestapo is foiled again!!!
So now have we decided whether we are going to make all the girls gay and always have someone to go hang out with, or turn all the men gay… and save on the 3 pints of lager?
Eyesoars.
Nonsense, vinegar is the third ingredient. You even quote the ingredients. Miracle whip is also awesome.
(If this malignant untruth has already been addressed, my apologies.)
Carlie:
I’ve seen it before (when someone else was responsible for executing another’s dish), it just hasn’t carried the same bullying vibe. From what we see, I can’t figure out why there’s such a determination to gang up on Beverly.
I haven’t watched last chance whatever, but I sincerely hope there’s no way for Heather to come back.
James:
Sure, you didn’t know better at the time. No worries. I imagine you’ll need a fair amount of support now, so remember that we’re here for you.
Justicar is getting Justicar all over Ophelia’s blog.
I know what santorum is.
What is justicar?
To justicar is similar to hoggling but only you claim you do it because women are your equal. But you rather hang out with the MRAs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justiciar
JamesMichaels,
Welcome, I admire your honesty and direct action regarding past actions.
___
Ogvorbis,
This. So totally this.
___
Cicely,
Indeed.
Do all those menz who tell us that they consider women to be their equals ever think that it’s not a compliment?
[meta: avoiding the j—car and h—le]
For a tuna sandwich, a thin scraping of mustard (French or English) is a worthwhile addition. Alfafa is an awesome finishing touch.
Or if you can melt cheese over it, then basil pesto on the bread … ohhhh.
/myopinion
Ing, are you just trying to be a smart ass. That is not even the spelling the assclam uses.
It isn’t?
*looks closer*
I just thought the actual term was a cool vocab word.
also I looked it up because I was curious if it had some meaning that would lend itself to it’s use as a nyme.
In that casse we are free to come up with a santorum-like definition for justicar.
Stop me if you’ve heard this one.
Bartender says, “We don’t serve faster than light neutrinos in here.”
A neutrino walks into a bar…
Bill – from your blog post:
It was Chris.
Well, if it’d been the guys, the reading would have been “They have a lot of strong/stubborn/controlling personalities blah blah blah.” The behavior wasn’t particularly catty – it was bossy, bullying, dismissive, and patronizing (especially awful since she’s said she was in an abusive relationship).
***
Yes! (The Star Wars analogies are also annoying.)
I think it also had to do with the previous challenge. I feared that person wasn’t long for the show after the comments in that judging.
It was so stupid. Several of the losing team made dishes they really liked, and they said it was close. Then all of a sudden it was “We could send any one of them home” and “the disaster that was _____.” Made no sense.
I like that they’re responsible for the restaurant decoration and set-up, (don’t think they should be cleaning the bathrooms, especially while cooking!) but I think they should all work on it and should have far more time for that and training the wait staff earlier.
STOP!
I haz a sad. Getting “comments closed” on the little rascals thread, where I wanted to make a lame joke, to wit:
.
.
(sorry, I couldn’t resist it. And I know most people will know this anyway, but for the non Spanish speakers it’s an idiomatic expression that means “once in a blue moon” but translates literally as “once every bishop’s death”)
Dammit!
Heh. It is not Justicar World.
Turing was made of awesome.
Via an email from Amnesty that landed in my inbox today, here’s the late Coretta Scott King talking about the death penalty:
And MLK himself:
Particularly appropriate, given Maryam Namazie’s post about the horrifying situation in Iran.
Justicar is such an asshole. And worse, he’s a long-winded pompous asshole.
Is it just me or is commenting on the You little rascals! You didn’t tell me! thread shut off?
I’m gonna call for a citation needed.
Walton, I’m in agreement on the death penalty; but empty platitudes and assertions even from people of note is not convincing to me.
#172 Tethys
I missed your question at the end of #172:
Too late to dig it out now (sorry) 23:37 local time. I will come back to it tomorrow. Thank you for your patience.
Alan B
SC:
Thanks. I fixed the reference at my blog.
Yeah, my comment may have been a bit imprecise. Honestly, I’m not quite sure I know what precise species of bad behavior catty is supposed to signify. I’m not sure the people who use the word do, either: They just know it’s what you say about women who behave badly. <sigh> I just wish these particular women — well, at least half of them, anyway — didn’t seem so determined to make it hard to be on their side.
Personally, I have little patience with backbiting, sniping, fingerpointing, and under-the-bus-throwing in general, regardless of the miscreants’ gender(s), and even regardless of whether it’s arguably deserved. I watch these shows to see people do what they do (whether it’s cook, model, design clothes, build motorcycles, whatever); not to see them treat each other badly. I guess I’m atypical in that regard, as the shows themselves seem pretty confident the interpersonal stuff is gold. 8^(
Urrp… I had more, but I just got called away to meet the fam for dinner….
Excuse me, All – hope it’s OK to awkwardly walk in, ask a DUH question and walk out again. But here goes: can someone report how to do blockquotes? I had it figured out (from a helpful post from the commentariat to another poster) but I’ve forgotten again and I cannot make sense of the “allowed tags” clues above the reply window.
TIA!
Ing, I can cite several song lyrics for “Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that”.
Does that count?
“Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that” is obviously not an empirical fact-claim, and doesn’t pretend to be. It’s poetic language. What is important here is that someone who had witnessed and survived horrific oppression spoke out against violence, and opposed perpetuating the cycle of violence, knowing that it would only make things worse.
There are plenty of fact-based, practical, specific arguments against the death penalty, which I and others have discussed here at considerable length (and evidently you concur with at least some of those arguments). But this is a quotation which I discovered for the first time today, and which I personally happen to find inspirational and emotionally powerful. If you feel differently, that’s fine.
Nifty:
=
<blockquote>But here goes: can someone report how to do blockquotes?</blockquote>
Only if it’s Bowie
@niftyathiest
Put the word blockquote in the triangle brackets, paste the quote, repeat the word blockquote in triangle brackets at the end with a / between the first bracket and the word blockquote to close the tag.
Indeed. It’s very much a gendered insult, given that I’ve never heard “catty” used in reference to a man; though I have to wonder how it became so. I don’t know the etymology.
Evening, all!
I was very excited this morning to get an email from HR that said that I was in the system, please come by to get your ID card and start work. I came by
…to discover that I am NOT in the system! I will be tomorrow. I was all bummed out by this. So, logically, I went shopping.
I fell in love with a lovely lady. So, logically, I brought her home.
The shelter named her Nikki. I think this name sucks and is in need of improvement. I was thinking Morgan?
Never heard cat fight used?
Oh FFS,”It’s very much a gendered insult, given that I’ve never heard “catty” used in reference to a man”
Bitch, cunt, whore, all are used by men, referring to men. This shit is insidious.
Walton, you need to get out more.
++++++++++++++++++++
Ing, I’m so tempted to do a janine, (janine, where for art thou?), but I only haz dial-up and can’t link to all the songs. ;-)
Has anyone else noticed that a “dog fight” is something that fighter pilots (manly men!) get in while a “cat fight” is women fighting?
Hmmm…..
He really is. I liked Ophelia’s comment (with which mine overlapped).
You know, English is not my first language, but I can use a dictionary and find that “catty” is used to signify “cruel, spiteful”. It’s used for instance when speaking of malicious gossip.
Eh, what? Yes, of course bitch and c**t are used in reference to men all the time (actually more so in British English, in my experience). I’m not naive. I don’t know how you got that impression from anything I said. :-/
That was precisely why I was commenting on the fact that I’ve never heard a man called “catty”, as far as I can recall.
Esteleth, these things take time (& money) for the bureaucrats involved.
You made the right decision, you have a new owner. Does your owner respond to ‘Nikki’?
It’s not a bad name, it’s close to ‘kitty’.
She does not respond to ‘Nikki’ (or ‘Morgan,’ for that matter). She does respond to her squeaky toy and to the sound of food being poured into her bowl.
Hmm. I just really don’t like ‘Nikki.’ Maybe it will grow on me.
Watching an old MASH episode. Reflecting on my best friend who got thrown out of the emergency room at Mass General because he kept shouting, at the top of his lungs, “I demand to see doctor Charles Emerson Winchester the third right NOW!”
Yes, he was drunk.
Women like cats, men like dogs. Haven’t you seen the movies?
Oh wait.
Cat: term of contempt for a woman since early 1200s.
Whatever name you choose, remember that sooner or later you will be yelling it at the top of your lungs in front of other people. So “Shitferbrains” and racial slurs might be contraindicated.
Nikki is a wonderful name for a cat! Was she masturbating with a magazine?
Ahhh! Thank you! (slips out the side door)
Hecate
(pronounced hey cat)
@PZ
No. But she is licking her own ass right now…
@Denephew 246
Quite frankly there are some people I could give a damn about hurting with harsh language as they are hurting other people with their conduct (for instance choosing to be so weak of character that it is detrimental to those around them) and yes I derive satisfaction in chastising them for it.
And for fucks sake will some of you people stop affirming the efforts of mysoginists and homophobes at conflating women and lgbt with any and all words that denote weakness? When you step up and insist that these words (pansy, sissy, wimp, cry baby, weakling) must refer to women and lgbt, you are doing precisely that. You are setting their meanings and marginalizations in stone by insisting that is all they can ever mean instead of actually challenging this conflation, and attempting to make these words forbidden, not because the conflation is wrong, but because they are “offensive”. You are playing their game, playing right into their hands, and affirming their stereotyping while censoring yourselves into a corner. That be some powerful stupid that I have little time and even less respect for. When (hopefully)you get tired of running around in circles with these fuckers and feeding their bullshit, I have a suggestion, stop being a tool shed and honestly realize what you are doing. Remember there will always be words to chastise overt weakness as it is harmful, while using them to wrongfully describe whole segments of society is woefully stupid and should be challeneged openly by discernment not impulsive censorship. To be clear, I am an ERA (equal rights advocate), an opponent of censorship, and a snarky jackass when it comes down to it.
A friend’s cat went from the name “Maddy” to “Pita.” Pita was actually an acronym for Pain in the ass. Towards the end, Sherman was going by the name of ‘Living-to-Spite-Me!’
craigore, when people actually stop using pansy to refer derisively to queers, it will be something we can hear yelled without worrying.
Please go think harder. Or just go away.
So, craigore, by objecting to gender-based insults, I am proving myself an MRA ennabler? Holy shit, get your ass out of your head.
I read that while I was watching an episode of MASH and, in fact, right when Winchester was yelling. Fantastic.
Esteleth – we got our cat in early December and still haven’t really named her. We had settled on Tessa, but somehow she doesn’t seem like a Tessa. She’s unofficially Catherine the Greyed, so that we can just call her Cat.
Craigore, we don’t give a fuck about your beliefs, if you use misogynist language like you have been doing. So either shut the fuck on such words, or take the abuse you deserved by using such immature language, with immature reasoning. Your choice loser cupcake.
those are not the same as these
so it was at best ignorant of you to weave them together
Well, I’ll probably go through half a dozen names in the next few days. I may well end up with something silly when it’s all done. I figure I’ll give it a week, then order tags for her collar.
I’m also considering Vanya. Hmm.
In any case, my owner has now decided that my foot is a toy. Whee!
The connection to women and lgbt folk is already there. By using those words in a derogatory sense, you’re not changing either the meaning or challenging the conflation. The only way to accomplish what you want to do would be to make those words into good words that have a positive meaning, which you aren’t doing. You’re using them in the same way they have always been used, to mean something bad and worthless that you don’t want to be.
Patricia, why the Pullet Patrol is feared. Here.
also
seriously
if blog commenter really cannot handle “don’t use that language here”
i cannot get very upset about losing this acquaintance
@ Esteleth:
The kitty is a she? Remember that Vanya, like other Russian names ending in “a”, is masculine. (E.g., Chekov’s play Uncle Vanya.)
Irene,
The kitty is a she, yes. ‘Vanya’ means ‘beautiful’ in Quenya.
/nerd
I was a TA for a lab today. It’s a course offered for a semester every 2 years to mainly post-grads and post-docs. The lectures involve concepts. The labs are real world examples.
I had to show 6 post-grads how to do basic scientific method. i.e. “you have 6 adjustments on this camera chip.
Vary each one independently and make a notation of the results.
Examine all the results and plot the mean and std variation.”
One post grad said “that’s huge work.”
Why, yes, yes it is.
[muttering to myself] WTF? Science is stupid repetitive tasks, over and over. So is playing music. So is living. So is life. [/muttering to myself]
Incidentally, am I missing a meme with the ‘Nikki masturbating with a magazine’ thing above? It sailed over my head if I was…
Incidentally, I’m loving the fact that PZ has directly addressed me twice: once to make a pun about cloacas on Twitter a few months back, and today, to talk about masturbating cats.
Clearly, I’m on a roll.
It is Friday night. The bills are paid (and we have money left over again). I had another Ommegang Dubbel beer (best beerI have ever had!) and it has knocked me on me arse. And I am heading for bed.
TOMMORROW IS SATURDAY!!! And Wife works her street corner in the morning and at noon so we have the afternoon together! [Kermit arms flailing]Yaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!![/Kermit arms flailing]
@ Esteleth:
Well, it’s a name worthy of Queen Beruthiel’s cats themselves, then!
(Or maybe not, since those were reputed to be pretty sinister beasties… Hmm.)
Oggie, honey, I really hate to break it to you, but today is Thursday.
Change your ‘nym to butter, since you’re on a roll.
Irene, just for that, I present you with this platter of Massa ar lis.
I have no interest in emulating Queen Beruthiel. She sounds like a piece of work.
IMPORTANT MESSAGE: Obvorbis is on a roll; Walton has a very selective sense of humor; Esteleth has never heard of Prince.
And by the time I will have posted this all these issues will probably have been addressed. [/ UNIMPORTANT MESSAGE]
Darling Nikki.
Ah. I have heard of Prince, of course, but during his heyday I was too busy singing along to Sesame Street to listen to him.
In strange news from the UK: Christian Voice blames Tesco fall on gay pride.
I have had the displeasure of hearing Stephen Green speak in person, once, some years ago in a debate at the Oxford Union. It was awful. He is equally as incoherent in person as on paper.
(Since then, aside from his vicious homophobia and complete disconnection from reality, it also emerged in the course of divorce proceedings that Green abused his ex-wife and children. Basically, imagine a combination of Pat Robertson and Michael Pearl, only with a British accent, and you’ve got Stephen Green.)
Since you (didn’t) ask: I’m having sliced avocados, cream cheese, bean sprouts, (I had to specify bean, because I no like alfalfa), on wheat toast. With some leftover tzadziki sauce.
Nom ^1k.
Wanted to post part of this 24 hours ago, but FtB broke down.
There’s milk in that mug? I thought it was dry…
Then… why are there places where the death penalty has been abolished for decades now?
Not over here.
No, even though I’m pretty sure I would trust myself with it.
Outside of rather contrived situations, if we’re already talking about magic, I’d find it much more satisfying if someone* went in, arrested such people, and giving them an excruciatingly fair trial that exposes everything they knew and when they knew it, rinse and repeat for everyone who’s complicit.
* Doesn’t have to be myself, not even if we assume magic invulnerability & courage.
Cops who abuse their power? Sure, in extreme cases I’d want to kick them in the belly or something, repeatedly even, but killing them strikes me as a category error. Somehow, even my unfettered violence fantasies don’t seem to include doing actual lasting damage.
There are extremely few scenarios, all of them contrived, in which I could imagine sacrificing myself. The only one I can think of right now is Armageddon, the Bruce Willis movie, where it’s either the main character, or every single living being on Earth, or both.
Note to self: if I ever see TLC or Ogvorbis holding a death note, immediately – on sight – kick first TLC, then Ogvorbis to the ground, then take the death note and rip it to tiny pieces, occasionally interrupted by additional kicks to make sure everyone stays down. Then light a fire and pour the pieces in while putting on a Hollywood hero voice and saying “you’ll thank me for it”.
:-) *broader & broader beaming smile*
<hug>”Faith in humanity” is always melodrama. Either way.</hug>
Note to self: if I ever see Classical Cipher holding a death note, immediately – on sight – pounce and hug her tightly, twist the death note out of her hands, rip it to shreds behind her back, then let go of her, light a fire and pour the pieces in while putting on a Hollywood hero voice and saying “you’ll thank me for it”.
…Hugs are good. *vehement nodding*
Seconded.
Knowledge of how the HIV works just might, though.
Heh. Not that it matters, but you were also under the impression she’s of the male persuasion; that’s not the case either. :-)
That’s awesome!
(Incidentally, it reminds me of my experience with speaking Chinese in China.)
I immediately sent it to onion girl ^_^
Wouldn’t they be replaced quickly enough?
ROTFLMAO!!!
Subthread won! Week saved! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Very good point.
He supported Kerry and Obama. Probably still supports Obama.
:-o
Freude, schöner Götterfunken!!!
Many people keep theirs visible on their blogs; mine is known to Google Scholar.
In meatspace, just gazing at the person and occasionally hinting at a nod seems to be enough as long as no actual questions are asked. I was in that situation today – tutoring brings me together with people who are in dire straits, and one of them decided to talk today.
Your impression is right for much, perhaps most, of the German-speaking area, except that jellies (made from juice) are mostly unknown and lemons or oranges are never processed into anything. :-) Somewhere in northern Germany *handwave* the word for “jam” is Konfitüre.
Seconded.
Or Powidl (in places where Czech words occur, meaning, Austria or at least part of it).
*facepalm*
Over here, broth and stock seem unknown, and the default soups in this house are:
1) Carrot-plus-one-other-vegetable soup. The other one is onion or leek or celeriac (always the roots, never the greens).
2) Beef soup. Contains carrots and celeriac.
3) Chicken soup (sometimes actually made from turkey). Contains carrots and celeriac.
4) Soup from smoked meat. Contains carrots and celeriac.
5) Sour-cream soup. Contains yoghurt, salt, caraway and laurel leaves.
6) Broccoli soup, with or without potatoes.
7) Green-onion soup.
8) Ramsons soup (two versions).
Only 5 and 8 contain milk.
*giggle*
He was the first to explicitly state that, by default, lower layers are older than the ones higher up.
Don’t confuse Tethys with Thetis. Different goddess/titan.
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
LOL!
Soylent Green is girl scouts!!!!!
ROTFLMAO!
News from Austria: Number of people who quit the Catholic church going down!!! Well, that of 2011 is the second-highest ever, the highest ever was in 2010, and only a bit over 5.4 million out of 8.4 million Austrians are still Catholic – there must be millions without a religious affiliation now.
Awesome!
Lots of people don’t know these exist – and can’t imagine they do, because they don’t know how gender works. I myself didn’t imagine it before I found out just a few years ago.
Requires a login. How big is the sample size?
Unconstitutional.
*facepalm*
*hug*
“Polarize the hull plating.”
I see your Ty-Lor and raise you a Ty-Lör. Seriously. I met one at the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology meeting in November. I just couldn’t stop thinking “what is this I don’t even”.
Menj a faszba.
Has that been tested? Or is it simply assumed because, not being mammals, they don’t use their shit to mark territories, so they don’t find it repulsive?
It used to be thought that birds generally, a few New World vultures excepted, had little or no sense of smell. Over the last 20 years, that’s turning out to be dead wrong for more and more species.
“Previous The Eternal Thread”? Previous subthread.
:-o
That went fast.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Unless you’re a lot more influential than you actually are.
Ha. I got spam from Blockhead J. Minolta !!
Dude… it’s how HTML works. You can’t omit it when you write HTML, neither here nor in ScienceBlogs nor anywhere.
An “improvement” in IE9 to make it look more like Firefox, right?
Not all of them – but Alan Keyes, Ted Haggard and Rick Santorum have flat-out self-described as gay, stopping just short of using that word.
Bingo.
Enjoy, as long as there still are any tuna.
Very good points.
Awesome awesome awesome!
Awesome!
Awesome!
…
Awesome!
Life As We Don’t Know It! Life not dreamt by Star Trek! Awesome!!!
…
Awesome!
:-D
Heh.
ROTFL! Day saved!
Thou askest why she existeth. Methinks that is not what thou meantest.
Ancient joke about the man who named his dog “Fraudster”. “You should see how many people turn around when I call him in the street!”
o_O
That’s nicknames – in this case, of Ivan, which ends in a good manly consonant.
Apparently, the way to make men/boys cute is to feminize them.
And it’s not just Russian. AFAIK, all Slavic languages are like that.
Not in the Ogvorbisverse, foul calendarist.
Ogvorbis has Monday and Tuesday off, IIRC.
Sailor & Walton:
I’m pretty sure I have heard “catty” used to refer to men, but only when calling those men out as effeminate or unmanly was part of the intended insult. “Catty” is absolutely a gendered slur. In fact, I’ve been turning it over in my head since my previous post, and I’ve pretty much decided that even though it’s not as obviously transgressive as (for instance) “pussy” or “cunt” (in that it doesn’t explicitly refer to sexual anatomy), “catty” is every bit as offensive, and in precisely the same way.
Walton:
I’ve heard ‘Catty’ used to refer to men- Gay men.
Point proven?
Perhaps I do. Apologies. It didn’t even occur to me that you were joking.
(In my defence, I have a ton of work to do, am tired and shouldn’t be posting at all. Need to get back to reading about prosecutions of war criminals.)
Thank you.
Incidentally, that’s interesting about the birds. I was under the impression that ‘the Science’ was pretty solid regarding birds and their ability to smell.
But can they recognize the smell of melted butter?
craigore, you are making the lives of LGBT folk more difficult with your need to use words that hurt them, and you’re making everybody’s lives more difficult with the laughable excuses that you put forward for continuing to do so.
No, Ms. Daisy Cutter honestly does not think that dumbfuck strawman. She honestly thinks what she actually said:
So don’t trivialize her comment with such an obviously stupid misinterpretation.
Those idiots are also real people, with real hate and even realler fists and boots, who feel that bit more empowered when they see some clueless dipshit like you validating the epithets you and they share.
But this is another strawman. What has been said is that the effect of your words is to marginalize LGBT people and women. What you mean to say hardly matters.
The burning question has been asked already: why do you continue with words that have misogynistic or anti-gay sentiments when you have so many other fucking words to choose from?
Then for the love of God, as SC said, just do so already. This is your one concession in a wall of stubborness.
I wonder if it was the word catty or the word pussy that caused this to automagically appear in the sidebar ads? ;^)
Bill Dauphin: That thing looks like R2D2, if R2D2 got hastily converted into a cat toilet.
TLC:
In some of the pictures, it looks like the cat is being devoured by R2D2! Hard to imagine any sane cat would go near the thing. It did make me laugh, though.
Davis M sets a record for Marjanović-ing a thread. Woo hoo!
“But can they recognize the smell of melted butter?”
Yes, but they’re squabbling about it.
evilisgood (@328):
I read this…
…to my sister-in-law over the phone and got a nice laugh. It occurs to me, though, that it would be even funnier if you made “Stop me if you’ve heard this one” the last line!
@David M: But most regulars who I’d trust with a story about a man displaying abusive behavior toward a woman do NOT have their emails readily searchable, particularly by dial-up. I gave up after a few tries and went with Rorschach.
Also:
And you were under the opposite impression, were you? I don’t claim either one and I don’t correct either pronoun; but I do try to stop folks from “correcting” each other.
Tuna goop also goes well with a couple of nice, crisp lettuce leaves.
–
Congratulations, Esteleth, and may your enkittening be a source of joy and warm fuzzies to all concerned.
:)
I think, if I were naming my Bitsy-cat all over again, that I would name her Tickly Whiskers.
–
@ theophontes #254 – You forgot bacon. Bacon is always a choice topic around here.
@ James #241 – That was amazing to read. It took some courage to post that. Welcome to the community. Echoing the sentiments of others here, I’m glad to read what you’ve written, but hope that your relationships will not be too aversely affected by your newfound atheism. There will most definitely be changes, but don’t forget what got you here in the first place – taking the time to really think about your views and opinions. Best of luck to you.
BTW – if any Threadizens have suggestions for buttercup squash soup, I’m all ears. Never made any before and now that I’ve got a nice fat one from the most recent produce share and a replacement blender jar for the one the Husbeast accidentally broke months ago (sigh), making some delicious soup would be highly appropriate, especially since winter finally seems to have arrived in the Windy City. Only requirement is that I be able to use veggie broth and no dairy, since the Husbeast is almost vegan (no meat, no dairy, honey & eggs ok). I am, however, planning on topping my servings with a generous amount of the thick cut bacon recently scored from a local farm. And bonus points if there’s a nice kick of spice involved. :)
Masturbating with a magazine?
O__o
Paper cuts?
Or did he really mean “masturbating TO a magazine”????
Update to “Truth Vigilante” article by NYTimes Public Editor: http://www.timwise.org/2012/01/of-broken-clocks-presidential-candidates-and-the-confusion-of-certain-white-liberals/
The gist of it: “Damn! I didn’t realize all y’all yokels were so DUMB! Obviously we should fact check. But what about when the facts aren’t obvious. Like, Clarence Thomas claims he misunderstood his tax forms. I’m not a mind reader; how the fuck am I supposed to know if he’s lying? (Never mind that he correctly filled out his tax forms for several years prior.) Also, get off my fuckin’ back!”
SO happy I never buy the Times.
Also, I’m going to do my best to make this “Truth Vigilante” thing a meme. Mainstream media acts as stenographer for lying politician? Never fear! TRUTH VIGILANTE is here!
Nah, not unless you want to imply you (as the person telling the joke) are a neutrino which can move faster than light, or that you’re in a closed timelike curve.
They were glossy paper cuts, and they came with a perfume insert.
*pops in!*
I found grapefruit marmalade! Yay!
I got it home and then found out that it expires next month. Boo!
This gives me an excuse to make more pound cake over the next week or so. Yay!
Now, even though I just spent ~$200 on groceries, I’ve gotta go back to the supermarket for some of the pound cake ingredients. Boo!
*pops out!*
Can’t see how that would be any more dangerous than lesbians masturbating with Bibles…
In other news, Colbert is giving Jon Stewart control of his SuperPac so he can throw his hat into the Republican presidential ring.
Does anyone know of some good symbols for atheism, agnosticism, humanism, secularism, skepticism, etc?
I’m trying to redo the logo for my Freethinkers group and I thought that a bunch of secular/nonreligious symbols as letters would be an interesting thing to try out.
I’ve already got the humanist logo (as an ‘h’) and the out campaign ‘a’, but beyond that I’m lost.
Squash soup (of almost any kind, I would imagine): roast the squash whole till tender. Halve, remove guts, scoop out flesh. Puree into your choice of liquid, season with salt, pepper and your choice of other stuff, and simmer for ~20 minutes for the flavors to blend.
I find that deep orange squashes are excellent with bacon, appreciate a dry white wine or sherry in the cooking liquid, only get better with garlic, and go well with a very little fresh-grated nutmeg (especially if there’s cheese involved but even if there isn’t). They make a very silky cream soup, moreso if you press them through a sieve after simmering but that’s extra credit work and not strictly necessary.
Butternut Squash Soup
The neighbor on my ex’s street has one of those motion detector light thingies, and it goes off even when I’m on the opposite side of the road from their house.
That alone wouldn’t be funny, but this stupid motion detector says “You are trespassing. You are trespassing. You are trespassing.” in a hilarious robot voice, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s comedy gold.
No, I don’t give a shit if any of the neighbors heard me laughing out loud.
IANAV, but there’s this butternut squash ravioli we sometimes get that’s absolutely amazing.
Nutmeg is another thing that works well sprinkled on devilled eggs. That would be instead of cinnamon, not in addition to cinnamon.
–
kristinc – oh, I never turn down extra credit. :) I’ve found that straining crepe batter also works great, too.
Katrina – the link seems to not be working?
Richard Carrier has an interesting post about the National Defense Authorization Act, and how it doesn’t grant the president the sort of powers many have been saying it does. He makes a strong case, though I’m still not sure what to think about it.
Munkhaus is ban evading to ask why he was banned over at butterflies n wheels.
*snicker*
I have a good curried butternut squash soup recipe that I got from a friend, but unfortunately it’s not online anywhere I can link to. If I have time tomorrow, I’ll retype it here.
In the meantime, keep in mind that the seeds are very similar to pumpkin seeds, and are delicious toasted. When I blogged about this last year, our very own Jack C. pointed out that brining them first gives them a lovely salty flavor.
Brining. Once I learned what brining was, it seems almost all foods and especially meats are improved by it.
Crap. I’ll just post it without all the fancy-schmancy html stuff.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/butternut-squash-soup-recipe/index.html
Sounds like something out of Fifth Element.
I won’t be watching the Colbert Report until tomorrow when it’s available on the website. I hope someone is watching it tonight that can report back.
@ Katrina
I’m watching it right now.
Walton: inorite?
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha… fuckin thing. I’m gonna laugh at it every damn time it goes off, I know it. All it needs is a little cardboard cutout of a policeman with a motorized wagging finger and stern look on his face.
Maybe a cardboard chief Wiggum raising and lowering his coffee mug while his eyes are turning left and right. Next to him the text
WE’RE WATCHING YOU KIDS
COPS NEVER SLEEP
Weed Monkey: Well Played.
In other news, I ordered this late christmas present for myself and it should be arriving tomorrow or the day after: http://www.warriorsandwonders.com/Ka-Bar_Knives/Ka-Bar_Big_Brother_Leather_Handle_w_Tan_Leather_Sheath
JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYYYY!
/stimpy
Posted to a particularly obnoxious letter to the local paper:
You, sir, have no idea what you’re talking about.
I grew up in this “Democratic plantation”. (Yes, even though I’m white. Your racism is noted.) So did most of my childhood friends. And your claims are completely wrong.
People in this economic bracket work as many hours as employers will allow, often to the detriment of their health and their relationships with their families. During good economic times, sixty- or eighty-hour weeks are not uncommon, distributed across two or three minimum-wage jobs. In times like these, when not even minimum-wage jobs are available, life is truly hard.
And after all that, you’re upset that people are willing to donate food to them so they don’t starve to death? You’re upset because the government provides a pittance for food so that they can maintain some human dignity in preparing their own meals instead of begging for scraps?
And you’re so upset about that that you’re willing to lie about what they get? Here’s a hint: They generally don’t get free housing or utilities. They don’t get free dental or optical care, and the free medical care (where it exists) is provided by volunteers and is extremely limited. And they’re very lucky if they find a group willing to help with Christmas presents.
You know as well as I do that you’re only one medical emergency away from being like these people on the “Democratic plantation”. You might want to consider developing some empathy like normal human beings.
+1 Weed Monkey.
@ Walton
{sorry for late post}
The same argument could be made for any manner of things which are antithetical to the the functioning of a free society. So for example in USA the right to run about with lethal weapons or conduct what in other countries amounts to hate speech.
In this case it is a symbol of women’s oppression that is worn publicly (and hence granted normalcy) that has been put an end to. A serious problem with this form of abuse is that it might not be called into question by those suffering it because it has become so “normal”. An acceptable part of how woman are dealt by societies.
The French are putting their foot down to protect the hard won rights of women in their society (this was certainly not always the case and they yet have a long way to go). These rights where won by force and protected by law. Certainly not everyone agreed with each step along the way, men and women both.
I am not saying that you do not make some very valid arguments about the path that is being taken in France. I can also agree that it is arse-about-face to place this restriction on dress without having a proper response to the side effects (particularly threats and violence from both religious and secular right wingers) that go together with the new regulations.
As an ultimate goal, though I do think it is necessary to protect individuals and the public against the acceptance of all forms of antisocial behavior. This would include, as par for the course, any of the violence you list here and more. But it should also remove things like hate speech or attempts to grant normalcy to overt signs of oppression. One escapes the yoke at home to find what? That society regards it as normal even on the street. One escapes the private cage for a public prison.
Islam has chosen to make the secondary role of woman a tenet of faith. It is inevitable then that any attempts to remedy this iniquitous aspect will be seen as an attack on islam itself. And yes the right wing may well see this as a “justified” point on which to attack islam. But it IS iniquitous – whatever anyone says – and we should not use that as an excuse to turn our backs on the issue.
This is plain and simple abuse and is (I might stand corrected) illegal in France. The niqab is also a fantastic way to cover up black eyes, broken bones and spirits. These people can not even show fear for FSM sake! They have no way of communicating their distress. Even passively. The ultimate form of abuse – have someone do your every bidding without even “having” to hurt them.
Does France not have laws against unlawful imprisonment? They should let go of a lesser issue through on their failure to apply the law to a major issue? We need to fight this on so many fronts. Perhaps the law should rather have focused its energies on catching those that impose the niqab on others. And to prevent the types of attack you go on to describe. Banning the niqab was certainly not an endorsement of any of these other crimes. This message seems to have been lost on some.
I do not wish to go further than to say that the niqab is a very bad idea for humanity as a whole. It is not required by the koran and will not ingratiate anyone to their imaginary sky-god. On the other hand it is a very strong symbol for misogyny and the secondary role of women. No good can come of it by either endorsing or rejecting it. It is inevitable that a ruckus will break out in trying to remove or to impose it.
But where do we go from here then? It is just wrong on every level from a humanist perspective. In the long run everyone will be that much better off if the niqab would cease to be, so that the path forward is at least given a goal. Whether the French have chosen the correct path to achieve this is open to question and you have made good arguments that they have not done this correctly.
Finally (for now), “listening to their wishes” is not necessarily going to sway their ultimate goal, though it would certainly help in easing it into place. (Think for example how this would apply to smoking in public areas. “listening to their (ie smokers) wishes” is not going to change the outcome: Legislation against smoking in public areas.)
@Starstuff, apparently, pansies. Pansies are for thoughts, and may possibly have the useful side-effect of scaring away the homophobes.
Bacon is good. We are having BLTs for dinner tonight. Free-range, thick cut, proper full rashers of bacon. (American bacon doesn’t have the eye; Canadian bacon doesn’t have the streaky. You guys need to get together and fix this.)
Jeez, I’d set that thing off at every opportunity, as long as I could do it from public property.
Esteleth
That’s my kitteh
12 years13 years15 yearsalong time ago!Is along like alot?
Damn, good question Chigau.
I say it’s not, but I only recently said goodbye to ‘alot’ myself after one too many people linked me to that webcomic, so I could be wrong.
Too drunk.
Headscarf bans amount to regressive taxation so I start off being against them. Nothing persuades me of their sufficient utility to overcome that hurdle.
Gun registries are also regressive taxation but they handle something much more dangerous. They are on the verge of socially necessary, since guns are, well, guns. (It would still be better if registries were funded by income tax.)
Hate speech! Yeah, we get along well enough with free speech. Not persuaded of need for hate speech bans before revolution.
From Women Living Under Muslim Laws
http://www.wluml.org/sites/wluml.org/files/Walking%20a%20Tightrope-v2i-Final-Web%20version.pdf
Chigau: Wait, I just saw the context you used it in. ‘Along way to go is wrong.’ ‘Along’ as in ‘bring you along’ is correct.
If we were talking about only making it illegal to force a woman to wear a headscarf, this would be just as good an answer.
Easy, easy question. Give money to ex- and Muslim women who propagandize against hijab.
Theophontes: I can’t help but think of a recent local newspaper article about prostitution in town.
“These women have hard rough lives. It’s not easy for them.” the cop is quoted as saying. “We’ve already arrested six of them…”
Not a perfect analogy, but surely you can see how ridiculous it is to fight a cultural custom making restrictive laws about what a woman can wear by making restrictive laws about what a woman can wear?
Walton is spot on IMO.
Watch: Devastating anti-Romney film surfaces
theophontes
Problem is, the ban is only a way too simplistic solution. Sure, the punishment for men who force women to wear it and who imprison them is much higher than the one for the women, but, “wo kein Kläger, da kein Richter”, meaning that if those offences aren’t brought before court, nothing’s going to happen.
I agree with everything you say about the niquab/burka, but the problem is that I don’t see any ban helping.
First of all, it puts women in a fucking difficult situation: They are in a conflict between obeying the family/religion and the law. Disobeying the law comes with consequences, but they are way less severe than the consequences of disobeying the family.
It’s a fucking high bar if you have to break up with your family, friends and everybody you know.
And it’s a dangerous thing to do, too. Abused western women usually only have to fear their husbands. In those cases, they often have to fear their whole family and community, including their own sons.
In honour killings, often the youngest son/brother is recruited to commit the murder, because they will face the smallest punishment.
The fact that murder is against the law doesn’t help you when you’re dead, and we know that authorities aren’t very effective at protecting those women either.
So, if they want to escape, that needs meticulous planning and support.
Now, tell me please how they’re going to get it if they are unable to leave the house safely?
The same goes for women who might wear it more or less voluntarily because they don’t know any better. I want those women out in society, want to give them the opportunity to see and learn and maybe change their mind.
That’s not going to happen if they are criminalized and shunned from society.
In short: It’s a populist right-wing meassure that hurts those it claims to protect.
++++
Also: Cinnamon-buns, they’re fucking delicious.
++++
Talking about Justicar: Doesn’t he strike you Discworld-lover familiar? You know, that guy in Nightwatch…
Who? Me? Unfaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiir!
@ SG/LM
And still so coherent. I stand in awe.
No slacking. The revolution is now… Seriously though, I am very much in favour of banning hate speech. (For the same reason I am against smoking in public places.) One always has recourse to the courts if one feels hard be done by.
I suspect, given the totality of conditions in France right now, that would have been the better course of action. (You will note that I refer to the niqab (total veil). In terms of regular headscarf, the problem is not so profound. Though it should still be illegal to force a person to wear one.)
A good suggestion – if people actually put their money where their mouths are. (And it is not asif the government isn’t clear what their stance is already. They just need to motivate/incentivise people positively.)
@ TLC
Agreed, but on the other hand it is very difficult to find analogies to the whole niqab issue. It is hard to think of something as blatantly in-your-face wrong in quite the same way. (I am more than happy to see prostitution fully legalised by the way.)
Or rather “fight a blatant case of misogyny”?
About many things. I trust though that he understands that this is not just a “cultural” or a “religious” issue. We should be fighting these things where we find them. Where I do agree is that we might have to be more sensitive in our tactics. But certainly not give up the fight or flinch when someone pulls the jaded “culture/religion card”. Surely we are all to be held to the same account in terms of our basic rights. They are not “culturally dependent”.
I’d like to thank everyone for their welcomes, and for the kind words about my conversion.
On a topic slightly related to science, how does “Karl Pilkington” quotes and the Ricky Gervais show fare as discussion points here? My favourite ones so far are still “Have I told you about the immune system?”, “I’m living like a mole”, and my all time favourite “I was still using my eyes even though I had them shut”. Brilliant.
Also, inspired by this link: http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-starscream-vs-rainbow-dash , if you could see any character from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic kick anyone’s ass or would be interested in seeing them fight anyone, what character would you pick and who would you choose for them to fight? I’d still love a Pinkie Pie vs Willy Wonka match…
Munkhaus really pissed me off.
James:
While I’m not one myself, there are more than a few My Little Pony fans here, so I imagine that will be a happy subject for you. :)
“Has anyone else noticed that a “dog fight” is something that fighter pilots (manly men!) get in while a “cat fight” is women fighting?”
— — — — — —
What about “hedgehog fight” ? I have seen two hedgehogs making apparently threatening noises at each other… but standing off, for obvious reasons. How do you mess with someone who is covered in sharp spikes?
jamesmichaels1, welcome from me too.
I think on the whole we’re ambivalent about Gervais. He can be an annoying ableist prat, but he’s an open atheist and some of his comedy is pretty funny. People weight those factors differently, of course.
There didn’t seem to be much to the two bits of The Ricky Gervais Show that I’ve seen other than the two hosts falling over themselves laughing much too hard at Karl Pilkington, like apparent mean-spiritedness should enhance the humour in someone acting the fool on cue.
It sounds as though there is a relatively-medium-sized animal in my wall. There probably is. This is not good.
What is good is that a very wonderful appliance salesman talked us into trying to get our current stove fixed (“My shoes are older than your stove!”) and so we have a repair person coming today. With luck, it will end up costing us about 20% of the cost of a new one.
Butternut squash soup – if you have a good mild to medium curry spice blend, that is a good match for butternut squash. Or ginger. Or nutmeg. All are good. I’ve had dill as a flavoring with carrot soup, so that might work as well. You can make a soup base with the squash, some caramelized onions, and chicken stock, and then add other flavorings per serving and see which you like best. A bit of plain yogurt or sour cream added at serving is also nice.
The last thing I heard in my dream before my alarm went off this morning was “So, are you going to help with those subcommittees?”
I totally can’t deal with the whole Gervais hating, so I’ll just retire to watch 10 more episodes of Nikita. In a row. Only briefly interrupted by praying to the goddess in a roughly Hawaiian direction. Not more than every hour tho. That would be excessive.
Hmmm, Butternut Quash.
The first time I had it I ended up eating variations of Butternut Squash for a whole week because I didn’t know that the upper cone was solid. So I judged by the size of what I’d have gotten if it were a regular Hokaido or something, which are mostly air with pumpkin around.
Also, some minor god is fucking with me. You know I have my issues and it takes me a lot to make phone-calls etc. Now I need a new appointment with my counselor and whenever I manage to call he’s not there :(
Gervais hating? All I mentioned was ambivalence.
Cath,
my humble attempt at being funny is humble, of course….
@ Giliell
This is a big problem in ending not only abuse, but a whole host of social ills to boot. Not just the closing of ranks to hide and cover up these things by family and communities(we meet more than sufficient examples on Pharyngula, from mormon child brides to roman catholic paedophilia). The other problem is logistical. How does one ever identify secret abuse? And what incursions into our privacy would be required to bring them to light?
The approach should be based on protecting the victims and advancing their best interests. This is true for all victims of abuse. But we also need a long term goal to resolve the conditions that breed these abuses by taking away the tools of oppression. The niqab is one such obnoxious item to remove from the face of the earth.
There is no obvious parallel between walking around with lethal weapons (which poses an immediate threat to others’ safety) and walking around in a burqa (which does not). As for criminal laws against hate speech, I oppose almost all of them on the ground of freedom of expression; I’d probably make an exception for incitement to genocide, as with Radio Milles Collines in Rwanda, or for other extreme situations where there is a direct link between hate speech and an immediate outbreak of massive violence. But even if I did not, it’s still a poor analogy, because laws against hate speech are meant to protect others, not the speaker herself. The foolishness of the burqa ban is the idea that one can protect the victims, whose rights one is ostensibly attempting to uphold, by criminalizing their conduct and arresting them.
This is a misconception on multiple levels. Firstly, it should be observed that wearing the burqa or niqab is not, actually, normal or customary among French Muslims; only a small minority of particularly devout Muslim women in France wear it. And please read the Guardian article I posted, and engage with the accounts of individual Muslim women expressed therein. It varies. Some women are coerced into wearing it, but some others choose of their own volition to wear it because they believe it to be a good thing (some even doing so against the wishes of the wishes of their families). Now, you can say that they feel that way because they’ve internalized the patriarchal values of Islam, and you might be right; but that’s a very dangerous line of argument. Saying that women don’t know what’s really good for them, and that they need to be protected from their own wishes by a state which knows best (and arrested if they do not comply), deprives them of agency and infantilizes them.
Again, what “rights of women” are you protecting by telling them what to wear, and backing it up by force?
The rights of women are not advanced by forcing them against their will to adopt Western dress codes. The rights of women are advanced by letting them choose what to wear, in accordance with their own values and beliefs; treating them as individual moral agents with control over their own bodies.
You’re oversimplifying the problem; the social problem is not the burqa or niqab itself, but the fact that some women are forced against their will into wearing it. And that – domestic abuse and coercion – is the problem that the state should be addressing. Of course it’s not easy. Addressing social problems that occur behind closed doors is never easy. But that is no excuse for not trying, or for ignoring the real problem in favour of a harmful, destructive, simplistic solution that actually exposes women to more abuse.
Terrible analogy. Legislation against smoking in public areas is not intended to protect the smokers, it’s intended to protect bystanders who do not want to inhale their smoke.
theophontes
All that is true, yet I fail to see how any of this is going to be achieved by a ban.
The niqab is a not an issue in Germany, but i can tell you how hard it is already for muslim girls and women who want to break free. And dangerous. At the moment, the state court is holding a trial against two Turkish men who kidnapped their niece, beat down her French boyfriend (to whom she had fled because the family wanted to force her into marriage) and tried to get her to Turkey. Those things happen with or without a niqab, but as long as the women have the possibility to move in public space, their possibilities to get help are greater.
A thread with Justicar and heddle. Oh, my.
theophontes
Although, the fact that we don’t see them anymore doesn’t make the problem go away. That’s more like the approach to homelesness where homeless people are picked up by the police in the city centre and driven off to the suburbs and the wilderness (I’m explicitly not saying that this is your intention, I think I know you better than that, but i think that for a lot of supporters that is a reason)
SC
Who’s heddle?
I saw the post but the name doesn’t ring a bell
Also, I need a stud. Two would be better.
And yes, I’m talking about small metallic objects, now go and wash that brain with some soap!
Things I did NOT need today: my shower breaking!
ARGH.
I went to shower, and the knob thing that diverts the water from the tub spout to the shower head broke off in my hand.
I have emailed my landlord. Hopefully I shall come home from work to a functional shower.
But now, the kitty has been hugged, her food and water dish filled, and I must brave this fucking blizzard and go to work.
Thanks for all the squash soup suggestions! I think I’m going to play with ginger, nutmeg, red pepper and a dash of cardamom for spices, and both leeks and yellow onion, with a generous amount of garlic. And thick cut crispy jowl bacon + a sharp, slightly nutty cheese for garnish.
I suspect this will barely last the weekend, so next week, I think celeriac soup will be the experiment.
Just a general point about what is allowed in the interests of individual free choice is not necessarily in the interests of society at large. Finding individual cases of the former is not the same as justifying it as a general policy. Perhaps I did not express this well.
Wrt the niqab (again I do not have the same issue with open veil) it is not just about the wearer her(or him?)self. There is also the aspect of open society, socialisation and having an identity in the public realm. (and the niqab is about anonymity, removing the individual from the public realm).It is nt just about “me” but also our integration in society. Because France has a relatively positive view of women, the massive liabilities of the niqab are not as clearly obvious as they are in Saudi Arabia or Sudan etc. (Or is its meaning a relative concept? I am just suggesting that it is mot.)
It is not all just about the individual.
I think we have quite different views on this (in a good way, if this was not the case, one of us would be redundant). Wrt smoking in public. The person smoking feels ta is exercising their personal right. But the liabilities of ta’s action endured by everyone (including the smoker!). “Smoking” here is just a place holder for any such free action of an individual that takes no cognisance of the effects on those around ta. Anti-smoking laws take the bigger picture into consideration and weigh this against the wishes of the individual. Not necessarily good news for the (smoking) individual, but good news for everyone.
*(smoking is a slow gun)
Triskaidekaphobia
No less than 4 people have made Friday the 13th comments to me today concerning issues with their PCs and our servers.
please shut up
Now
It’s Friday the 13th? Shows how much I’ve been paying attention to my calendar.
Not in the Ogvorbisverse.
I was the one arguing that I would immediately burn it because I am a total coward — I would be afraid of what I would do with it and what I might become. It was TLC who was wondering if xe really would burn it, not me. I have no doubt. The ring would not have helped Gondor. ‘Nuff said.
Actually, through April 8, I have the calendarist Friday and Saturday off, so today really is my Saturday. And Sunday is Wife’s Saturday. YEEEAHAAA!
In case anyone else around here watches Parks and Recreation (and you should because it’s an incredible show) I realized something last night during Leslie Knope’s…attempt at a campaign rally.
Chris Pratt (Andy Dwyer) is really good at pratfalls. Perhaps further studies could reveal that there’s a genetic component to physical comedy prowess?
I need to be composing an index and instead I have a headache and am desperately hoping that something interesting will turn up on FtB so that I can avoid working for a while longer.
As far as I can remember, I generally always hated the elimination after Restaurant Wars – they tended to let the saboteurs get away with it.
And Friday the 13th comes on a Friday this month.
Weather terrible – winter has finally arrived and it is snowing sideways – “near whiteout conditions” – I hate that phrase.
Figures that the biggest snowdrift is right at the doors of the science building. I wasn’t bad until trying to get into the building – now I have snow in both shoes and up to mid-calf on both legs. Brrrr.
Woohoo! All my Amozoniai have done been shipped!
@ Giliell
There are many reasons why a ban is not a good idea.
I am more against the niqab for what it is (“de-humanifyer”) and what it symbolises (misogyny) and its origins (misogyny … mohammad’s buddy got a hard-on after seeing m’s wife and suggested it). There is certainly no simple way to take it out of the equation in a hurry.
We take the importance of our involvement with others in public space too much for granted. All those people who do not have a free and open access to the greater community cannot communicate these things that you mention. The niqab is intended specifically to reduce this communication.
(Communication – through the internet and cell phone – has lifted a veil and led to the Arab Spring.)
No, of course not. People need to interact with each other. That includes homeless people. No point in sweeping anything under the carpet. That would only make it worse.
A misguided, CL-20 powered, socially oriented tardigrade.
@ Esteleth
Moar hugz fur kitteh…
Hedgehog Hadouken!!!
That’s my geek quota sorted for the day.
pHred
snow boots
My cat has learned that he can climb the christmas tree (yes, I still have mine up; no, I don’t plan on taking it down any time soon).
Ok I’m not a fan of the “Scouts” groups in general, though it appears the Girl side is much better than the Boy side. At least here (holy shit South Carolina? yes. South Carolina.)
http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/RockBottom/archives/2012/01/13/make-a-statement-buy-girl-scout-cookies
Is it just my reading of it but is this another case of “Going for the true but easy shot isn’t fair and you should be above it for civility/fairness”
@PZ
Ad server is sending people to a mouse trap site. Clicked on add by accident and now it won’t let me leave without giving a confirm click. Am I wrong to suspect malware in this? Afraid to click.
Site in question for reference,
http://mymodernessentials.com/diet/11/Index12b.html
@thepint – I roast the squash – while it is roasting I saute a big onion with a granny smith apple or two. I do it in butter with a bunch of toasted cumin. I then add the roasted squash and add curry, ginger, and cinnamon. Blend it, and thin with broth.
@ Muse – OOOH! Adding apples is a lovely idea! I think I’m going to make this tonight so the flavors can develop overnight for consumption tomorrow. Mmmmm….
Hey, PZ, have you seen that? It looks like Paula Deen won’t be the face of diabetes-inducing food for long, but admit that she’s diabetic:
http://boingboing.net/2012/01/13/paula-deen-celebrity-chef-cri.html
Am I the only one who can’t get the RSS feed to show anything past “Ben Stein is such a goon”? Same for Dispatches..
We Are Ing
No, you are not wrong to suspect malware.
Don’t click any buttons on the page, even the X button at the top of dialog boxes. Normal browser buttons are still safe (the ones outside of the page), but as you’ve noticed, may become unusable.
To get out, you may need to do one of the following:
– Alt+F4
– Kill your browser in the task manager (or other OS equivalent)
Try to avoid letting the page reload if you have your browser set to restore sessions.
A wild Katherine appears!
Good afternoon everyone, it’s been a crazy week and I haven’t been able to log in so much! Lots of hard work, lots of sleeping, lots of kitty deciding my pillow belongs to him…
..and now my RSS feed is working. Yay!
Well, the Pharyngula one, anyway. Still no Dispatches.
Whee!
I went to the ID office to discover people laying down carpet and a sign reading, “The ID office is closed until Tuesday for renovations. If needed, please go to [Other location] or call [number].” I had no idea where this other location was, so I looked at a map. Of course, it was on the other end of campus. Current weather conditions are “blizzard.” So, I very carefully drove across campus, got my ID card, and drove back. I now am OFFICIALLY an employee. Woo!
The picture is terrible. But, I think there is a law that says that ID photos must be.
On the way, I saw some dumbass who thought that playing chicken with a semi during a fucking blizzard is a good idea. Fortunately, nothing bad happened. But holy shit. I clutched my steering wheel and thought, “I don’t want to be in the same ZIP CODE as this idiot!”
I got my desk set up, and checked my work email. The email on top of my inbox says, “Your paycheck is available for pickup in [office].” Woo!
I haven’t seen The Ricky Gervais Show, but Ricky Gervais can be incredibly funny…and he can be an incredible jerk. He leaves me wanting the equivalent of a line-item veto.
–
A squirrel trapped in the wall and desperately trying to escape sounds much bigger than it is. It’s no fun (for frickin’ weeks) when they die in there. On the other hand: good news, they may chew their way out; bad news, now you’ve got a hole in your wall. Extra credit: this can be very exciting news for young house-bound carnivores, depending on whether the squirrels break in, or break out.
And several squirrels indulging in a difference of opinion in the attic sounds remarkably like a cat fight.
The last scene in my dream this morning had me dressed in a yellow Crayon costume, wondering whether I couldn’t trade it for the green one so as to better match my shoes.
–
Ah, Giliell, how I envy your ignorance on this subject!
*sigh*
–
Hurrah!
Oh, Katherine, I thought you knew—all your pillow are belong to kitteh.
–
@Esteleth:
Oh yes, ID photos are horrid. I look like a Hispanic man in my driver’s license photo – and I’m as white as a freakin’ sheet.
But grats to you being official!!
Truth & Beauty
@cicely:
But… I gave him another pillow. It’s right next to mine. Why does he sleep on my head?
@ Katherine:
Sleep on a pillow, when you could snuggle on top of your human being? Obviously, you’re not a cat ;-)
Hurrah!
More Hurrah!, with added *confetti* and *fireworks*. *brass band* optional.
–
@ Katherine Lorraine:
Because it’s there.
(What part of “all your pillow” did you not understand?)
–
Re The Ricky Gervais Show: when I got HBO, I would watch it solely to hear Ricky laugh. The stuff he was laughing at wasn’t always that funny, but just hearing him get tickled by something always got me going too.
ID photos: my driver’s license picture makes me look like a total creep. My hair hadn’t been cut in almost a year and I had neglected shaving long enough to grow my maximum amount of facial hair (which is roughly the same amount as most young men can grow at age 15). I was also wearing my Bret McKenzie Rap Dancin’ shirt and the framing of the picture shows just the “rap” part. That last part doesn’t add to the creepiness, just gives it a bizarre spin.
@The Sailor:
I saw that earlier on Lousy Canuck. What’s remarkable, I’m finding, is that truth is beauty! When I see the before and after images of Photoshopped women, I think the before images are better. Freckles, wrinkles, bumps, lumps, and non-uniformities are beautiful.
One for the crafters:
Embroidered cape made entirely of spider silk.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/13/tenn-republican-senator-threatens-to-stomp-a-mudhole-in-transgender-people/