I’m flying away again, straight back to Minneapolis, arriving this evening. I’m not going straight home to Morris, though, because by great good coincidence Roy Zimmerman is playing in the Cannon Falls High School Auditorium (8209 E Minnesota St., Cannon Falls, MN), so I figure I’ll take a little detour and pop in there for a while. If you’re in the area, stop on by!
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Roy is great! met him last year at a unitarian church where he gave a show excellent singer
Tell Roy I said HI, I was just playing him last night before getting the lowdown on What the FCuk is up with the Texas State Baord of Eucation, with Dan Quinn from Texas Freedom Network on the radio.
Interesting conversation.
http://acksisofevil.org/audio/inner264.mp3
We covered all 6000 years of existence in just 30 minutes.
PZ, you are close to getting the Junketeer of the Year Award!
Nice job at RIT last night PZed! I enjoyed it thoroughly. It was interesting that so few of the “questions” during the Q&A weren’t questions at all, but personal pronouncements. It was my first time seeing, in person, the weird dynamic displayed by the religious folks in the audience. After hearing PZ talk, in a relaxed and rather dispassionate manner about being disappointed (or even irritated) by the likes of Ken Miller when he writes about God existing in quantum space, they go on to ask PZ “why are you so ANGRY with theists? What do YOU care what they believe?”. But it is they themselves who are clearly very angry. Even after hearing PZ answer that he isn’t angry, and doesn’t care what people believe so long as they’re not codifying their beliefs into public policy, 10 minutes later another person asked the same damn question, proving that they didn’t hear PZ first two times around.
A Review of the Lecture Presented by Prof. P. Z. Myers on Thursday, April 1, 2010 at RIT
Entitled “The Irreconcilability of Science and Religion”
Before attending the lecture by Prof. Myers, I went on the Internet and read excerpts from his blog, “Pharyngula”, so that I would be prepared. While I have no argument with Prof. Myers’s subject matter, I do take exception to his tactics.
The rules of a good debate include “no hitting below the belt” and I feel Prof. Myers violated this rule by stating that religious people are “stupid”, and that their beliefs are “bullshit”. With an audience full of (among others) impressionable young college students, and with all of the credentials Prof. Myers has earned as a scientist, one would expect better etymology to be used in a lecture of this type.
Maybe science and religion are indeed incompatible, but one would hope that scientists and religious devotees could have a reasonable discussion without name-calling and mud-slinging. Prof. Myers as an educator and RIT as a place of learning are charged with setting good examples for students so that when they enter the working world, they will have the tools to communicate fairly and reasonably with their fellow human beings in a tactful and non-confrontational manner.
Oh, great. A fucking tone troll. [/killfile]
Ah, the good old non-confrontational manner.
Please see Greta Christina’s “Open Letter to Concerned Believers” which begins:
By the way, please do look up “etymology”. If you don’t have a dictionary yourself, I’m sure you can find one online. Try dictionary.com
First, there is a major difference between calling somebody stupid and calling their beliefs stupid. This is obvious to us all since there are some very smart people (e.g. Francis Collins) holding some very stupid beliefs (e.g. Jesus died for our sins).
Second, did PZ really call all religious people stupid? If so, please provide exact quote and relevant context! If not, then STFU!
It would be rather odd if PZ really did say he think religious believers were stupid, since it not something he thinks. He considers religious belief stupid, and says so, but that is not the same thing.
It would be a pity if Nicki Tiffany was wrong over this, since it would mean she had violated a major rule of discourse, which is not to lie.
B-b-but-t-t, it’s funny, and you have to get those things out of the way first to have any debate at all with theists, otherwise you end up arguing apologetics. By starting from the position that it is bullshit, the line is drawn at fact v. fantasy and the theist must then try to fit a deity in the gaps of science somewhere rather than pointing to a holy book of crap.
Oh cute, a concerned tone troll. I don’t hear any complaints from that person on how the religious right behaves, or their tone. Something tells me their concern is only in one direction. Funny about that, and not good public discussion either…
WTF moments:
o But if God fixed everyone’s broken legs, *everyone* would go out and break their legs!
o But you can’t prove there *isn’t* one, right?
Loved the question/answer about ‘militant’ atheists. ‘We write books.’ :)
Ooh Cannon Falls. Went kayaking on the Cannon River with friends years ago. Tons o’ fun that was.
Nicki Tiffany:
Oh goody, another concern troll. I imagine you need to clean out your ears, Ms. Tiffany, as I doubt PZ said people were stupid. Religious beliefs are stupid and they are bullshit. There’s no reason whatsoever to put on the kid gloves when it comes to inane beliefs. Since you’re so set on being nice and seeing that everyone sets a good example, I suggest you start selling that to the more rabid examples of religious followers. Start with Texas.
A sure sign of brainwashing. No they didn’t hear PZ Myers the first time around, or the second, or the one millionth.
They are simply following a program running on their Central Processing Unit. That is why many theists show robotic, repetitive, and senseless behavior. Most likely it is the Atheist Response Program i.e. see atheist, hate atheist, output—{{{babble on}}}.
Many people manage to break through the brainwashing. Some don’t.
Got to watch out for the ones running the Organic Guided Missile subroutine with 10 kg of plastic explosives mixed with nails.
Another one that is common is the Fundie Cultist Internet Troll subprogram.
Talking about insulting or demonizing other groups, some of the Xians have got that one down really well. They’ve had 2,000 years to practice it.
Cardinal Cormac calls atheism the “greatest of evils” and atheists subhuman. Cormac is also up to his pointed little hat in the RCC child rape problems.
Henry Morris, a creationist leader, claims evolution was invented by satan and handed down to Nimrod at the Tower of Babel. Of course, this isn’t in the bible and there is no evidence. They just make up lies to demonize scientists without worrying about such details.
This sounds great, PZ. Thanks for the news about Roy Zimmerman. The hubby and I were looking for something to do tonight, and now it looks like we’ll be roadtripping down to Cannon Falls. We’re from Mpls, and Cannon Falls isn’t what I’d typically think of as a roadtrip destination, but I’m not too picky!
Roy is great, Creation Science 101 has a million views on youtube! Cannon Falls is 30 minutes SE of St. Paul – 7PM. More info at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48778283@N00/4362788359/
@Raven
Technically, he’s also dehumanizing Jainism, many forms of Buddhism, and Taoism.
We atheists ain’t the only godless people.
When people wear their belts around their necks or even over their heads, anything will land under it.
And I think you confuse debate and boxing as PZ’s calling a spade a spade is good for a lot of kids as they see that religion needs to earn respect (admittedly a still-born idea), and not like up till recently, just be able to demand it under threats of persecution and execution.
And realised what Pope really is an acronym for:
Paedophile orchestrator par excellence
I just love the idea of being all meek and shit about atheism and disagreements with the religions of the world. Jesus told his followers to be meek, but are they? Oh, no no no.
I have seen and heard many a preacher man screeching at the top of his lungs about the sins, sinners and corruption of this world. The word “evil” features prominently. And the insults from other people? Oh, Lord have mercy! I have been hated and vilified, to my face, by Christian people who knew me and were talking directly to me.
And let us not forget the Hell that awaits me when I die, or so believe the loving Christians. If I was to say that little Nicki up there deserved to be dragged out back and burnt with a cigarette lighter a few times, everyone, atheists and Christians alike, would call me a sick, sick man. Yet Nicki believes that I deserve to burn in all-consuming fire for EVER.
Thanks, Nicki Tiffany, your concern is duly noted. I will, from now on, try to conduct myself in a more Christian manner.
Oh noes!!!
Those poor college students who are unable to think for themselves.
WON’T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?
Glad I could manage to squeeze the event into my schedule since it was a lot of fun.
Not gonna lie, I was kinda disappointed by the whole “reading at rapid speed off a sheet of paper” aspect. I completely understand being swamped with work, but I think I can speak for most people when I say that it’s the PZ off-the-cuff personality that’s what we really enjoy. To me it sort of felt like “Well, here I am in Rochester, I’m tired as hell and wish I could be getting some more important work done, so let’s just get this read really fast and move on to the fun question and answer bit.”
But the questions portion WAS fun (if a smidge exasperating at times). My favorite part was actually the question from the father of a 6-year-old who realized he was “raising a little skeptic” when the kid pointed out some people still believe in imaginary things, and the man asked about the difficulties in raising a young person to be so vastly different than the rest of the mainstream. Hearing PZ’s answer was really interesting! Quite the proud papa ;)
Also, re: ‘impressionable college students’–they’re adults, not minors. At what point do we expect them to start taking responsibility for their own opinions? Is everyone supposed to coddle kids clear through grad school now? I’m ‘concerned’ that you think people that age still need their fragile minds to be protected from certain statements.
Oooh, I annoyed a Christian. I would take pride in that if it wasn’t such an absurdly trivial accomplishment. If I’d done anything other than praise Jesus, she would have made the same complaint.
For the record, I did not say that religious people were stupid. Quite the contrary, I said religious people were just as smart as atheists, but that god-belief makes them willing to say very stupid things. With examples.
PZ, cleanup on isle Large Hadron Collider.
Happy Good Friday Everyone!! Today we shall remember that Jesus went to the cross and died for our sins. He saved US!! All the American Baptists (I would use southern but everyone knows that isn’t patriotic enough).
Wait…this is a Baptist Blog right???
I would like some insight though. Other than someone who writes terrible reviews, who is Nicky Tiffany and why am I supposed to give half-a-shit what she thinks?
And I agree with the CPU analogy by Raven @#16. Dawkins was in Tempe, AZ a couple years ago and I went and saw him talk. Very elegant explanations followed by a bunch of booger-eaters asking questions that made no sense and were completely off-topic. And they kept asking the same dumb questions. “Atheist lecture coming. Must go and say something stupid.”
Wait. I thought I was supposed to crucify a bunny today?
Hold on, be right back
LHC? Rev. BigDumbChimp, don’t you mean ID proving machine?
I am focused on ONE word in Nicki’s post: “debate”. Just to point out the obvious, PZ’s presentation wasn’t advertised or promoted as a debate, and was not structured as a debate. The “rules of good debate” simply do not apply to a lecture/presentation.
I look forward to your book PZ, but I think you should cast a wide net to the hordes and have a book title contest, with a free copy as the prize.
Now I have to go rent Magashark vs. Giant Octopus, for PZ tells me so.
Well there does my hope of there being a seat if I show up on time.
*goes
You’d think I could get a single sentence right.
No No No. You are supposed to buy chocolate bunnies today.
On Sunday you bite their heads off.
Not too sure what the symbolism of that ritual is but it seems similar to communion.
*sniff… sniff*
man… the stench of offended piousness is strong today… doesn’t seem to matter which thread I go to…
we’re going to need to retrieve the spare fainting couches from storage I’m afraid…
Communion: And in the same manner, Jesus took the cheese, and he cut it, saying: “This do in remembrance of me.”
Hi PZ, I’m one of the folks that made it to your talk. The lecture was fine, but I think the Q&A was the really good part, despite most questions being typical religious apologetics. Thanks again for making the trip and doing this, it was pretty great.
– Mike, the awkward kid in the gray hoodie.
wait wait wait
1) it was not a “debate”
2) that’s a rule of a prizefight, not a debate
3) ‘stating’ =/= ‘hitting’
okay, now we can move on to the fact that he didn’t actually state what you quote him as stating, and then…
eh
I have a hypothesis for this behavior. I think all devout, faithful believers, irrespective of age, sex, creed, sexual orientation, race or geographical location, have a tiny voice of reason – a spark, if you will – within them.
It keeps whispering to them, from time to time, that their deeply-held religious beliefs are superstitious bunkum, that their religious leaders have been lying to them for centuries, and that there is no invisible magic entity lurking in the sky.
It drives them crazy. They can’t get it out of their heads, and yet the years of religious conditioning and brainwashing wouldn’t allow them to escape out of the fold.
Frustrated, the believers take the bludgeon approach – as they have been taught to do by their religious leaders who are adept at crushing any sign of a spirit of enquiry; the believers try to drown reason in noise. Whenever reason comes calling, they try to shout it down, calling it ‘doubt’ or ‘the Satan’, and reading fairy tales about how one engendered the other. They seek refuge in badly-written fan fiction, such as the bible, the koran, the geeta, the zend-avesta, and the like. They seek refuge in alternate reality, in form of hallucinations, speaking in tongues, self-flagellations and so forth.
And in a similar vein, when PZ Myers comes calling, they keep asking him the same stupid questions over and over.
I wish I could go.
Off Topic:
I do believe that Ratzi’s apologists are touching Godwin’s law now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/2/hi/europe/8601084.stm
The devil continues to wreak havoc in the Catholic ChurchTM:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/satan_behind_media_attacks_on_the_pope_asserts_italian_exorcist/
When are the Atheists going to get a clue! Hating the RCC because some kids got molested by Priests and then was covered up is so insane I don’t even know where to begin. The level of persecution the RCC is going through is comparible to what the Jews went through during WWII. Asking the Pope to start turning pedophiles over to authorities for punishment is exactly like killing 6 million people.
Zed Sed:
… *ahem* …
“OMG! Why are you so angry?!?!”
*runs*
html tagfail *sadface*
And the christians and their clergy are oh-so considerate and truthful:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/thank-god-were-not-all-atheists-bishop-says-20100401-ri4q.html?comments=66#comments
and
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/world/europe/03church.html?ref=global-home
Despicable religiot at #42 blathers on:
Riii-i-i-i-ght! I suppose that is why:
Shouldn’t have to say it, but 42 is a Poe (in common parlance, lest someone quibble over the strict definition). “Asking the Pope to start turning pedophiles over to authorities for punishment is exactly like killing 6 million people” is a dead giveaway.
Kausik Datta, don’t fear, POE is here.
Oops! Forgot the hyperlink to the Yahoo News report.
And then I noticed this gem (not!) from the said religiot above @42:
Some kids? You, Sir, are a disgrace to humanity, a festering peri-anal wound in the corpus of the human condition.
Shits be upon me! I hang my head in shame.
I failed to recognize a Poe!
[Sniff!]
Damn, it is getting difficult these days to separate the Poe from the soundbytes…
Is a Poe still a Poe after they are revealed to be a Poe?
I wasn’t being serious. A comparison between the current “persecution” being brought against the RCC and the persecution of the Jews during WWII is not reasonable at all. They aren’t even similar. The question I have is how can the church proclaim that his statements do not reflect that of the RCC? I mean, this is the guy who has the pope’s ear. Who would be better to express the sentiment of the RCC other than the pope himself? It was lunacy to make the statement and gutless to then throw the preacher under the bus. The unfortunate thing about it is I don’t think it will matter much in the end. Most people just want the little wafer and a swig of wine. The level of apathy makes me cringe.
What is a POE?
Nicki Tiffany #5
Does Ms. Tiffany honestly think “impressionable college students” aren’t already familiar with the concept of bullshit?
Yeah. And how is babby formed?
Tutone21, I’m just playing with you:) Here’s the explanation:
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law
Tutone21:
Ah! So that‘s why the Pope is deaf…
… to the plights of hundreds upon hundreds of victims of abuse. Figures.
Tell Roy hello for me, (Art in Union City, CA), please, PZ. I rarely miss his performances when he’s in the Bay Area, and have sent my relatives in San Diego to see him there. Zimmerman’s probably the greatest voice for reason among all singers. Every song he does is RESEARCHED. He’s written and performed whole albums of anthems to critical thinking and progress. Like yourself, Roy’s fearless and outspoken. You’ll love his new material.
tutone21:
Our guess is that the spokes-preacher’s words express Ratzi’s sentiments exactly. This is standard operating procedure in the political arena. Get an underling to say what you want to say, but can’t say without looking like an ass. Then pretend the underling misspoke, but by then, the idea has been planted in the minds of your apologists.
The goal of this little exercise is to portray the pro-rape Pope as a beleaguered victim. Expect to hear more about how Ratzi is being victimized.
@raven #16: just a little correction – they make shit up to demonize everyone who is not part of their particular cult (and also people who are part of their cult but whom they just hate because their god told them to hate them). So they make shit up to demonize the homosexuals, the “Darwinists”, the Greek pantheon, the Roman pantheon, any and all African religions, mohammedans, jews – you name it. That’s just part of cult mentality.
@RDBC #22: Don’t you mean:
“Won’t somebody please think FOR the children”? After all, religion does treat everyone like imbeciles and dictate what they should believe.
@tutone21 #42: Hehehe – keep it up, you’ll make it to Vatican Spokesperson yet. :) I fell over laughing with those claims that the church is being persecuted like the Jews were persecuted by Hitler. The fragile-minded sure have one hell of a persecution complex.
Let’s put the Eostre back in Easter!
Left a few off of your list. The Democrats are now commies.
Universal health care is a satanic socialist plot.
Presidents with dark skin are Kenyan born Moslem terrorists.
Thomas Jefferson wasn’t a Deist and besides he never existed.
Teaching evolution leads to cannibalism as so clearly shown by the Texas SBOE.
Well, what happened to the War on Easter? No one sent me the plans for this year’s battles.
All I saw was some xian loon on World Nut Daily saying xians shouldn’t celebrate Easter because it was a pagan holiday.
That might count as friendly fire but no one seems to have paid any attention to it.
Well, what happened to the War on Easter? No one sent me the plans for this year’s battles.
Nazinger and his cadre are doing our work for us this year.
We stopped celebrating the reanimation of that Hippie Zombie years ago. These days, we’re doing our part by renaming Easter as National Chocolate Rabbit Day. This way, we still get to have our herb roasted lamb with mint sauce.
Legion @61:
DO you really think this is true? If so then the RCC is so far out of touch with reality it’s disturbing. Would they assemble a “think tank” and discuss what they should compare it to? Maybe the mystery letter led to the sermon. At any rate, the cat-licks I work with still don’t have a clue. If you ask them about what is going on with the church they just reply that service is on Sunday (duh!). No clue as to the current events and what the head of the church is being linked to. Of course, if you ask them how many people Jesse James slept with then they will be able to tell you.
Of course, if you ask them how many people Jesse James slept with then they will be able to tell you.
Speaking of which, what do Jesse James and il Papa have in common?
http://dlisted.com/node/36701
Random question totally unrelated to this thread, but I figure if anyone would know it’s the visitors here. I am trying to look up a term that I heard called “mind body joolism”. With the word “joolism” being the pronunciation as opposed to the correct spelling, I have no idea how the word is actually spelled and numerous tries at different spellings have not given me a hit. Does anyone know?
The term evidently describes our predilection to assume quite early in life that the mind is separate from the body.
Thank You
Bubba²666, it is probably body mind dualism, which somebody isn’t enunciating clearly.
lol! He has an accent and said it several times and it sounded like he was saying “joolism”. But I am quite sure you are correct. Thanks!
“Asking the Pope to start turning pedophiles over to authorities for punishment is exactly like killing 6 million people. ”
And it’s almost as bad as reforming health care.
Speaking of mind control, at our house we’ve been reading about the Mormon church: not only the obligatory 10% tithing, but also
* Mormons must belong to the congregation assigned to their geographical neighborhood.
* The family is expected to attend a monthly meeting to proclaim their faith (or something like that–someone else was reading aloud snippets of The Mormon Cult).
* The congregation has a lay member called a “bishop” who visits each family every month to make sure they’re not backsliding.
* The family is expected to have a weekly Family Night where they all declare their loyalty to the church and their belief in its prophet.
* Children are taught that all good feelings (e.g. love of nature, excitement, awe) are sent directly from their God and anyone who says otherwise is sent and inspired by Satan.
It sounds a little too much like the Block Committees in Communist China that monitor and control every facet of personal life.
There’s a thoughtful review at Letters from a Broad: Multicultural Surprise!
An adult survivor of sexual abuse by clergy has shown up in a self-serving, self-pitying blog post by Archbishop Dolan, of New York, with some blunt words for the Roman Catholic Church. The link skips straight to the comments. You probably don’t want to read either the cleric’s whiny post about how the church is being picked on, nor the sycophantic agreements or mild criticisms of most commenters.
Rey Fox @ #75
Don’t even get me started on the health care fiasco! Now all those people getting rich off of welfare will have the opportunity to get medical care?!?! The terrorists have won. :-)
I keep thinking that maybe Yeshua ben Joseph was actually a bronze age con man on the same scale as “the Secret” or “Rich Dad”.
Dear PZ,
Speaking of offending wingnuts, it would appear that the recent Atheist Conference and other critical thinking wins have rattled two of the biggest Christian deadshits in Australia thusly:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/02/2863269.htm
Too cool.
Thanks for coming to Australia. We must save our sheckles and get you back next year!
Annie M
Only Thirty minutes left, for dawg sake DON’T KILL ANYTHING TODAY !! the critter will come back to life on Sunday and grow back into that nasty slimey Alien thing and tell me I can’t have no Sigourney Weaver, which I already knew, so I wasn’t impressed.
Then move on to bother everybody else for eternity.
My freind is playing funny jesus music right now in observation of kill Christ weekend.
streaming link http://www.kpft.org/streamkpft.m3u
he’s on for another hour and fifteen
What is this – nearly 24 hours without a post from PZ? How are we supposed to get our Pharyngula fix?
Well, happy Easter to everyone – hope you get as much chocolate and beer as you want (and the doctors allow)
Wasn’t Jensen and CoE involved in some unsavoury stuff some years back in line with the catlick abuses?
Or was it that he said something for him usually inane?
Easter here in Oz has been abit dire… Every Godbothering arse has been putting the boots into Atheists – only to show that obviously our existence has hit a very raw nerve… *yay* Here’s to their actions confirming their beliefs are bullshit! :)