I have something in common with these guys. That’s the Polish death metal band Behemoth, and you can see that they look like real atheists: cadaverous, lots of black leather and spikes, with nice metal jewelry in odd places on their clothing.
Uh, none of that is at all like me.
Here they are in performance. I rather like it, but be warned: it’s loud and harsh. See if you can spot the resemblance now:
Get it?
OK, I’ll explain, since I guess it isn’ quite so obvious. At the beginning of that clip, the lead singer, Nergal, is tearing up a Bible and throwing the pages out to the audience. Hey, I’ve done that in some of my talks!
Remind me, though, never to do that in Poland. Poland has a law on the books making it a crime to insult the Roman Catholic Church. Offend a Catholic priest, and they can throw you in jail for two years. It’s an even vaguer version of a blasphemy law, and it’s actually being used to silence a marginal and slightly weird critic of the church.
Oh, sure, Nergal looks scary and fits a certain stereotype. But he’s nowhere near as horrifying as this fellow:
That’s Marcial Maciel, good buddy to Pope John Paul II and Pope Ratzi, leader of an obscenely rich conservative organization called the Legion of Christ, serial pedophile, and vile monster.
Nergal has been charged with insulting the Catholic church and faces a trial that could put him away in jail for a few years. If he dodges that, or when he gets out, I think he should change his act for safety’s sake. Instead of dressing like a refugee from hell and tearing up Bibles, he ought to put on a priest’s cassock and clerical collar and rape a child on stage. Not only would it be more frightening, but it’s behavior the Church does not find offensive. Unless you’re caught, of course.
Metal dudes have *the best coats* hands down.
BAM!
Fight the Power.
These guys are pretty good. It’d be a shame to see such a Master of the Angry Guitar put away over some stupid religious scheiss.
Frelling hezmana! That is in Theatre of the Absurd territory.
There’s better black metal. And more blasphemous! Although it does sometimes verge on (and occasionally, glorify in) illegality. See: Varg Vikernes (he burned down churches. And murdered one of his bandmates. Good music though)
The body of the child is transitory. Any harm done is temporary and will pass.
The pages of the bible is the word of god. It is immortal and any harm done is ever lasting.
They look like the Wraith from Stargate: Atlantis.
And the priest is the feckin dad from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
I should point out, that when I said illegality I meant sensible illegality.
WTF. Carlos Slim Helu is in the Legion. :-S
Now that’s scary.
Oh boy. I smell massive quotemining to be had.
The Colgate Twins’ echo chamber is going to go thermonuclear.
You mean that’s not my picture? Coulda sworn…
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
Behemoth is one of my favorite bands.Adam “Nergal” Darski is a brilliant and very educated man.It’s so call to see how many atheists and scientists are metal heads
Fornication yeah, bitchezzzz! I must now go listen to Behemoth on internet radio. There is nothing more metal than doing prison time for desecrating “sacrosanct” bullfeces. Rock on.
That should say so cool
DENTIST! (jugga jigga wugga)
DELI-STYLE! (jugga jigga wugga)
[That was Brainkrieg. They got last place.]
Varg Vikernes
If you like Behemoth (and I do), check out Rotting Christ, from Greece. It’s a wonderful way to answer “What are you listening to?”
I was on Behemoth’s gig last week – no Bible-burning there. Boo. Wasn’t a terribly good gig anyways, their music is listenable but live the monotonous blasting just was too much for me. So many better bands around.
I do approve Nergal, he has the balls to stand up against this ridiculous poo also known as the RCC. I don’t like his show-man-ness, but that’s just me.
Oh man I hope this doesn’t affect their Australian tour (not that I can go as I’m too busy finishing up honors).
Also has there been any updates on a Canberra hang out this weekend, preferably at the wig and pen?
You say that like it’s a bad thing.
Uggh that preist is gross…
Black metal truly kicks religion in the face. It’s one of those things that makes religion a discussable topic.
They could try taking this to the European Court of Human Rights? The euro-empire has some benefits.
I thought I saw an atheist
In leather, black, with spikes
Who tore apart a bible (that’s
The sort of thing he likes)
A blasphemous expression, which
The Polish nation fears–
Because he tore some paper, now
A man may serve two years.
I thought I saw a holy man
Whose faith was being tested;
He had to bear the screams of all
The children he’d molested.
With such a dreadful burden, though,
Remained a ray of hope:
The law, at least, acknowledged his
Protection by the Pope.
I thought there might be justice, and
I hoped it would prevail.
The man who tore some paper
Should not have to go to jail.
The man who tore through children–
He, a heartless, soulless shell,
Should be punished by the people–
He does not believe in Hell.
You know, Poland’s governed by EU law as its highest court. If he appeals, he’ll almost certainly win.
Holy excrement!
Legion of Christ!? Well, that’s appropriate we suppose, since the RCC is looking more and more demonic every day.
The rooster sucking son’s of female canines.
You need to try some of that metal jewelery, PZ.
Well well well, I was going to go to Sonata Arctica* and Dragonforce for my next metal purchases, but I may have to look for some Behemoth instead. Solidarity! Free speech is sacred!! Etc.
*Which, totally OT, but I’m kind of in love with them. Any fellow Pharyngulite metalheads have recc’s of similar stuff?
PZ, have you been stealing my Facebook photos? It’s just… my atheist friends really do look like that.
Actually, so do the religious ones. All two of them.
Also, Kyorosuke #28, I love me some power metal. It’s not just you. I have tons of the stuff.
Well, I guess this is me losing my cool card, having posted here a grand total of five times.
But don’t they mainly just stick their fingers in their ears and sing “La la la!”? I mean, they surely don’t listen to the way outsiders respond to the Catholic hierarchy’s behavior! We’re all going to Hell anyway, so they don’t need to worry about what we say about them!
I’m okay with death metal. In fact, I often really like the instrumental elements thereof… But in that vein, I sometimes think it’d be slightly better in general if they just passed on the weirdly growled vocals altogether, and, I dunno, just signed the lyric in ISL or somethin’. Those voices, they just don’t do it for me*…
… in my defense, I think the problem is partly that now, whenever I hear death metal vocals, for some weird reason, I find myself thinking of the death metal cover of ‘Hit Me Baby One More Time’…
Incidentally, if you have not seen/heard this masterpiece, and do not wish to acquire this problem yourself, I strongly urge you not to go Googling for it… You’ll note I did not provide a link. This was because I do not wish to be in any way responsible. Consider yourself warned.
(*/Yes, this coming from a guy who positively penetrative intercoursing loves Tom Waits. Go fig.)
Another reason to love this blog!
Is it me, or does that priest in the picture kinda look like Palpatine?
Beautiful and poignant, Cuttlefish — thank you.
All the atheist metalheads out there should check out this up and coming UK band : http://www.myspace.com/powermajus
(not just because my brother’s in it – they’re actually really good!)
@Eetto
The European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU. It is a completely separate body. We don’t need no steeenking politicians to tell our judges what to do or to appoint them.
@ #28 and #29
Influences, esp.: Stradivarius, Sonata Arctica
Cuttlefish, brilliant as ever! The meter and rhyme scheme reminded me of Lewis Carroll’s The Mad Gardener’s Song*, although having retrieved it, I see they are not the same. Anyhow, here it is, as the last verse is almost on-topic:
He thought he saw an Elephant
That practised on a fife:
He looked again, and found it was
A letter from his wife.
‘At length I realize,’ he said,
‘The bitterness of Life!’
He thought he saw a Buffalo
Upon the chimney-piece:
He looked again, and found it was
His Sister’s Husband’s Niece.
‘Unless you leave this house,’ he said,
‘I’ll send for the Police!’
He thought he saw a Rattlesnake
That questioned him in Greek:
He looked again, and found it was
The Middle of Next Week.
‘The one thing I regret,’ he said,
‘Is that it cannot speak!’
He thought he saw a Banker’s Clerk
Descending from the ‘bus:
He looked again, and found it was
A Hippopotamus.
‘If this should stay to dine,’ he said,
‘There won’t be much for us!’
He thought he saw a Kangaroo
That worked a coffee-mill:
He looked again, and found it was
A Vegetable-Pill.
‘Were I to swallow this,’ he said,
‘I should be very ill!’
He thought he saw a Coach-and-Four
That stood beside his bed:
He looked again, and found it was
A Bear without a Head.
‘Poor thing,’ he said, ‘poor silly thing!
It’s waiting to be fed!’
He thought he saw an Albatross
That fluttered round the lamp:
He looked again, and found it was
A Penny-Postage-Stamp.
‘You’d best be getting home,’ he said,
‘The nights are very damp!’
He thought he saw a Garden-Door
That opened with a key:
He looked again, and found it was
A Double Rule of Three:
‘And all its mystery,’ he said,
‘Is clear as day to me!’
He thought he saw an Argument
That proved he was the Pope:
He looked again, and found it was
A Bar of Mottled Soap.
‘A fact so dread,’ he faintly said,
‘Extinguishes all hope!’
*From the (generally execrable) Sylvie and Bruno
Kyorosuke: you might want to skip sonata… At least everything after urnia…they went from sweeping power metal to boring pop. Dream evil would be my recommendation…
Also…I don’t think Nergal is an atheist…apparently he’s a thelemite–at least according to metalsucks.com. Not that should detract from our support of his freedom of speech, but it does ad an interesting dynamic…
And AJ: I love death meatl–especially the vocals! I did enjoy the aforementioned cover as well, so…I’m not sure what that means.
Cuttlefish. Should you have spoken such words of nuanced wit and charm before this weekend past I may surely have been tempted to cross the divide and play for the other team. Alas after Saturday night my heart forever belongs to the loud, brash,unapologetic yet excrementally funny and intelligent atheist eye candy in the form of Catherine Deveny. I just hope that Rorschach and I can come to an understanding on this matter.
Another fan of Sonata Arctica’s earlier work here. Of other Finnish stuff, Nightwish are great, and Korpiklaani aren’t bad (verge a bit on the growling sometimes). There’s a British folk-metal group called Skyclad I adore too. My strong dislike of screaming and growling does rather limit what I listen to tho, there’s some musically amazing folk-metal bands out there but i can only stand their instrumental or non-screamy tracks (e.g. Waylander, Cruachan)
AJ Milne, I ignored your advice and looked it up. I am now having to fight the desire to email it to a Britney-fan colleague….
Cowcakes # @40
..not wanting to overdo “in joke” thing from the GAC crowd but all I can say to that statement is …he he he.
Technically they are considered black metal or blackened death metal. And they are wuss. If you REALLY want some blasphemous metal, give a listen to Akercocke’s albums. Preferably Rape of the Bastard Nazarene.
@ #28
Sonata Arctica and Dragonforce are definitely two of my favorite bands. Stratovarius has some pretty good albums, and is Sonata Arctica’s main influence. Try “The Chosen Ones” or “Destiny” or “Infinite”.
And then Gamma Ray is like if you took Dragonforce, slowed it down 10-40%, and made it sci-fi themed instead of more medieval. Try “Somewhere out in space” and “Land of the Free”.
Cool, everybody! Thanks.
Did I read that right? The only reason the Vatican launched a worldwide investigation is because they found out the guy sired a daughter out of wedlock? I love the way these guys keep their priorities straight.
Bride of Shrek @42
Overdo an in joke. Is that even possible, I thought that was why they existed, to be rolled out and flogged to death ad infinitum to the amusement of those in the know and the bemusement of those who aren’t.
P.S. The numerical significance of your post does however carry a lot of weight.
Funny, when I thought you were mentioning atheist bands, this would be what you were talking about. To be honest, I’m more a British rock fan…Muse’s Absolution is one of my favorite albums.
And you heathens need to listen to the good music of Lamb of God. /s
More power-metal for Kyorosuke:
Cain’s Offering, Axenstar, Helloween, Dragonland, Celesty, Hammerfall, Primal Fear, Mystic Prophecy, and Dark Moor.
Behemoth makes me wish I were listening to Emperor instead.
@ #28, #29, & #37:
I like some power metal too, though I tend more to female-fronted symphonic bands (especially the late, lamented After Forever). My guilty pleasure are some of the cheesier Italian bands like Rhapsody of Fire or Domine, but Finnish power and goth metal bands are great too. Although when I saw Sonata Arctica open for Nightwish in Toronto a couple years ago, I was very disappointed they didn’t play anything from the first two albums!
I’m not a big fan of most black metal, but Behemoth is pretty good. What shocks me most is that Nergal is dating Doda. Figures in Europe a black metal singer could hook up with Poland’s equivalent to Jessica Simpson.
Hmmm… I tend to prefer doom.
Dang, PZ. Nobody can top that burst of outrage in your last paragraph. I wonder how members of the RCC can look at themselves in the mirror while knowing what kind of inhumane abuses go on in the cult they belong to.
Sorry for being abit OT – but anyone up for a laugh *especially if you are a metal fan of whateva genre* – see http://ruthlessreviews.com/top10/10blackmetal2.html
And just to frighten the horses – remember Stryper?… http://guitarforworship.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/stryper.jpg *that God, such a joker…*
For great grinding wall of sound – I recommend Methadone Abortion Clinic – something to offend everyone in their song catalogue…
:)
Couldn’t agree more. But even if you get caught you can rest asured that Mother ChurchTM will protect you.
I love Behemoth, it’s sad to see that someone is unable to express them self artistically, without an area screaming Foul!
“Not only would it be more frightening, but it’s behavior the Church does not find offensive. Unless you’re caught, of course.”
As far as I can tell, the church leaders are only offended that those horrible victims have the gall to complain!
Hey man you’ve got a point here. I mean, what sort of an oppressive, nazi-like, dictatorship would enact such a law. Certainly the people of Poland must be distraught over a law that goes so deeply against what they believe. If only the country of Poland was a republic. Er, wait. It is? and they elect presidents with the popular vote not an electoral college? Er I guess the majority of their population must be behind the people who wrote these laws? Couldn’t be! The atheists are the underwhelming minortiy as usual? Certainly not!
The rest of the world laughs at you people, while your sarcastic asses talk about how stupid we are and use horrible rhetoric to spread your plague. We just think your funny. I’m not even Catholic but you guys are just so terrible at supporting your ideas. Yes their have been catholic priests who have been pedophiles. yes you can walk down a street in anytown u.s. without walking by one’s house. statistically speaking priests are way below the norm ( and yea of course they should be ) but guess what group is right at the norm and therefore at a higher risk of being a child molester than priests…dun dun dun *POINTS THE FINGER AT ALL THE READERS* its just silly. you guys preach more than the christians I know.
PS the author’s beard makes him look just as creepy looking as Nargel and the priest.
Oh yay, a troll. Forgive me if I yawn but we’ve heard it all before.
Boring. Next.
Boring. Next.
request for madame:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/03/hardcore_and_hard.php#comment-2353730
troll @ 57,
Why don’t you go and kwok yourself sideways with a Leica rangefinder.
*yawn* (3 fingers pointing back at you, dear commenter, and so on and so forth…) No evidence to back up your clueless assertions, just imbecilic invective. Meanwhile, evidence is accumulating that Catholic priests from top to bottom have been abusing children for eons and that it continues to this day—and has been covered up by none other than the pope himself.
Sop:
Congratulations. So, what did happen to your brain?
Who’s “we”? All I’m seeing is yet another lameass troll with an inability to write.
You’d be wrong. I’d suggest a bit of reading, but you don’t seem to be they type who would be open to actual studies.
Mm hmm. You’re certainly coming across as creepy and seriously over-excited.
.. well to be fair I am rather sarcastic so this part of his rant is indeed true.
.. is euphemism week still on or can I use the term dicknob fuckwit?
SipSop,
Sorry, I don’t quite get what you’re saying. Try more thoughts and fewer words.
Other points that SipSop@57 forgot:
● Atheists have a documented history of hiding the paedophiles amongst their number. The catholics don’t do this. Instead, the catholics promptly report the misbehaving priests to the police. Ireland is a leader here.
● Another difference is atheists prosecute people for disagreeing with them, albeit nowadays all they can get the state to do is toss the erroneous into jail for a few years, rather then burning them at the stake. The catholics, of course, don’t support laws limiting freedom of expression and have never, ever, had anyone imprisoned or killed. And catholics never lie (lying’s forbidden by the all the different versions in the holy scrolls of the ten commandments).
Hence, people disagreeing with these obvious and fundamental truths should be jailed.
More bottom than top, from all accounts.
If only the country of Poland was a republic.
and hadn’t joined the EU…
More bottom than top, from all accounts.
*badumpbump*
Wait! Is there any evidence that this was a Catholic Bible?
Did it have a nihil obstat and imprimatur?
Did it contain the Catholic-approved text?
Did it have the Catholic deemed-proper number of books?
If not, then how is tearing up this Bible insulting the Catholic Church when it wouldn’t even be their version of the book?
My funny what?
Except that, the guy has been dead for a number of years, and he was removed from office by Ratzi, who appearently referred to him (indirectly) as “filth”. Gotta keep your facts straight, PZ.
Carlie # @70
.. Thread win for the most succinct yet cutting answer.
Ah, cute, and utterly irrelevant given the context of what PZ actually said.Let me fix it for you :
There, better now ?
Poland has a law on the books making it a crime to insult the Roman Catholic Church. Offend a Catholic priest, and they can throw you in jail for two years.
Now that is pretty much misrepresentation. It is like saying “USA has a law on the books making it a crime to steal from white person”.
Polish penal code makes a crime of offending “religious feelings” by insulting object or place of religious cult but it does not specify any particular religion.
Now, in country with Catholic majority (on a books, at least) and RCC very active in politics this means that majority of such cases will be Catholics feeling insulted. But it does not mean that atheists are worse in eyes of law.
By the way, on the same page there is an article of law making it illegal to discriminate against person because of his religious beliefs or lack of them.
Marcial Maciel looks a bit like Davros of Doctor Who fame. Just weld his eye shut, and put a glowy thing on his forehead to complete the transformation. He already has the evil down pat.
Poland almost did the same thing to Gorgoroth, another black metal band.
dnbarabash #49
Regarding Emperor, this phenomenon has unintentionally become something of a test for me with all new extreme metal bands I check out. After listening for a while, do I just feel like putting on Emperor instead? If the answer is no, then I’ll probably like the new band enough to purchase their work.
Recent bands that have passed the Emperor Test for me: Arcturus, Diabolical Masquerade.
In a side note, I will be very sad if a perfectly lovely discussion of metal here turns into another herring-filled debate with a religious troll.
Shame on you, good sir and/or madam! Tempting me to get involved in yet another band or two! Oh wait, that’s a happy problem. Carry on.
Why not have both at once? More (head)bang for your buck.
I’ll save you the trouble. I know a bloke in their live band..! They’re definitely a good laugh on stage.
As we’re talking metal I’m waiting for delivery of the latest Gorod album. French tech-death and pretty awesome.
Man, why can’t there be a post on death/black metal without a bunch of douches posting about Rhapsody, Dragonforce, Sonata Arctica and other fairy crap? At least pick something from the same goddamn country.
Fine, I’m only half kidding; if you like metal at all you’re probably less sucky than most people. Not a guarantee by any means, but still.
Anyway, Behemoth is okay; for other Polish metal try Vader or some oldschool Kat.
Here’s Metal and Hell by Kat (1985). Guess they don’t include it on Guitar Hero :p
smartbrainus @ 48
Lamb of God are a bit overrated. I prefer the spastic dissonance of the so-called “mathcore” forefathers like Coalesce and Converge (especially Coalesce), or the progressive meandering of Between the Buried and Me.
Atheist are excellent. Old school death metal from back when death metal wasn’t just ripping off Cannibal Corpse or Suffocation. I love their jazz elements.
To all the people talking about power metal, you all need to listen to Control Denied. One of the best examples of American power metal around.
A discussion about metal on Pharyngula. I’m in heaven! (Or should I say Hell?) Metal pretty much made me into the atheist that I am today. Although I’ll always acknowledge that I’m a hypocrite too because many of the bands I listen to do in fact have religious beliefs — ranging from paganism to pre-Christian Scandinavian to, well, uh, Satanism (there, I said it!) But most are atheists.
Behemoth is an excellent band. Of course, I would think that this is outrageous no matter who it was happening to. This gives Nergal and other musicians all the more reason to tear up Bibles on stage. I hope it doesn’t impact their touring; I caught them playing live in Virginia earlier this year and highly recommend their live show to anyone.
@79: Have you heard Hacride? Also great French technical death metal. And I presume you’ve heard Gojira, since they’re pretty much France’s biggest metal band, or one of the biggest (and they’re excellent and put on a great live show). Anyway, French metal is really hitting the international scene hard these days, and it’s all great! I love it. (Not to mention a completely different genre of metal where France has excelled as well, what I would call, I guess, dissonant black metal, with Deathspell Omega and Blut Aus Nord leading the way).
@77: I like your Emperor rule. I’ve been listening to the controversial Prometheus album a lot lately. I feel like that album is vastly underrated. I know that it may not quite measure up to their previous albums, but I still love it. Black metal does sound pretty different on a seven string guitar, but it works for me.
Oh, and by the way, one more piece of context that may delight some, and enrage others, is that if you watch that video that PZ posted, Nergal is obviously speaking in Polish, of course, but if you listen you can understand the name of the song he is introducing (their song titles are mainly in English): “Christgrinding Avenue.” That’s off of their excellent album The Apostasy.
FCC the Kwok yeah, Alex! Cynic, Atheist, Poltergeist, Death, etc pretty much were the best thing to happen to metal at the time. There’s much to recommend in some of their current successors too, particularly Coprofago and Unexpect.
I’m an a bit of a hurry so I don’t have the time to read the entire thread, and frankly, that’s something I don’t do very often anyway.
However, getting my new tattoo about two weeks ago I was reading a magazine in which the lead singer was interviewed. I wouldn’t exactly call him an atheist as he was quite content to prattle on about his dabbling in New Agey spiritualistic nonsense and even (yes) Satanism.
A bit sad, really.
What’s with the still from Battlefield Earth and the unexplained shot of Emperor Palpatine?
What really bugs me is that these bastards at the Legion of Christ are running a university in my town.
I want them to go away. Sorry, I won’t post a link to it. Just search for Legion of Christ University; you’ll find it.
MikeM
I’d like to get more into metal stuff, but I detest the grunting/screaming stuff. I’ve just listened to some stuff recommended above, and it sounds great – until some guy opens his mouth and grunts. Yeuchhh! Why, for Kwok’s sake? When you’ve gone to all that effort to come up an interesting and unique sound, must you spoil it with grunting and screaming?
Can anyone out there recommend some good stuff where they just don’t do that merde?
@88: While I love the grunting, screaming, and growling (not to mention screeching), I know that it isn’t for everyone. One of my favorite metal bands of all time also has soaring, clean vocals. That would be Hammers of Misfortune, from San Francisco — they’re somewhat power metal, these days with more 70’s rock mixed in, but a strong metal sensibility pervades their lyrics and music, even as they sing so beautifully. Go to their Myspace and click on “Trot Out the Dead” to get a good sense of what they’re all about:
http://www.myspace.com/hammersofmisfortune
Rats Assembly is also a great representative song on there that shows more what their newer material sounds like.
I really go old school with my black metal.Nothing beats Marduk, Mayhem,or Darthrone.Nemesis Divina by Satyricon was one of the first black metal cd’s I would play endlessly.I admit I love Dimmu Borgir and Immortal as well.Any black metal fan needs to check out the film Until the Light Takes Us or get Peter Beste’s book
That would be Darkthrone.Also check out Dragonlord
Proper preaching music in a relevant setting.
Warning: genius Clutch content
There’s tons of non-growly metal. Go listen to the classics like Sabbath or Priest or Maiden. Other than that it’s hard to make recommendations without knowing what style you like (doom? thrash? prog?). There’s a ton of diversity.
The growly vocals have two origins as I understand. The main one is from when mid-80’s thrash vocals got more and more coarse, and got labeled “death metal” (e.g. Possessed, Death, Hellhammer). The other is from the metalcore scene that grew out of 80’s post-hardcore, which led to bands like Zao, then Coalesce and Today is the Day. The latter tend to be more “screamy”. There’s been some crossover of the two lines, particularly in prog/tech metal, but to a lot of people metalcore still isn’t true “metal”. You won’t find Coalesce on Encyclopaedia Metallum, for example.
@92: Funny video, but Clutch is really bad stoner rock. Check Nebula instead.
#94
I really like a goodly percentage of Clutch’s stuff. And you cannot argue with them live – Neil Fallon has one hell of a stage presence! He would have made a very convincing preacher…
Wouldn’t call them stoner in the same way that Nebula are – different vibe.
Anyway, current listening = Nile, The Faceless, Origin, Meshuggah, Sleep, Crowbar, Sunn O))). Really really fast to really really slow. ;-)
@84
Death is in my top five bands. Lack of Comprehension might be the best extreme metal song of all time, and Destiny is certainly the most emotionally charged.
@93
I would agree about Coalesce not really being metal. Same goes for Converge and the Dillinger Escape Plan. The more “metal” form of metalcore (and now this is utterly meaningless) would be stuff like the Red Chord and (IMO) BTBAM, or the melodic At the Gates-inspired stuff like the Black Dahlia Murder and Prayer for Cleansing. Anyways, you forgot tow forms of harsh vocals: the grindcore/goregrind gurgle which brutal death metal (i.e. Wormed, not Cannibal Corpse) adopted and the black metal shriek. Of course, stuff gets interpolated as well, like Celeste (their music is free, so you have no excuse not to listen to it) do when they mix black metal and hardcore.
@95
I prefer Harvey Milk to Clutch. I find them dirtier and more misanthropic, like they were spawned in Tom Waits’ universe. Also, the Faceless are awesome. Easily among the best nascent death metal bands.
@AlexP #82
I’ll definitely check out Control Denied. Thanks! IMHO, it shouldn’t really matter if something is “metal” by definition or not…if it’s loud, ballsy, cathartic, and feels somewhat illegal to listen to, it’s good enough for me.
And I’m surprised this monk hasn’t been mentioned yet (I think I got sidetracked from the troll).
@AlexP: Basically agreed. And I said “two” origins for the vocals because that’s good enough for most non-metalheads. Death vs. black vocals still emerged from the same lineage for the most part. Like rock & punk -> heavy metal -> black & death. Whereas it was maybe post-punk -> post-hardcore -> metalcore for the other stuff. Oversimplified, and it’s all merging again, but yeah.
Just checked out Wormed; those are some odd vocals. Checked Celeste and Harvey Milk; sounds good, thanks. For black metal my faves are old Dissection (Swe) and old-mid Enslaved. And yeah the Faceless are good. I also enjoy stuff like Obscura and Behold… the Arctopus.
Oh, FFS
El Hoaxo
Varg isn’t a Nazi, but none one denies that he has controversial political views. Personally, I think he has some very limited-perspective and stupid views, and of course we can’t overlook that he’s a convicted murderer. I would never consider him to be a role model, but as a musician, his output is fascinating in its ability to conjure a sense of melancholy over a lost culture.
Bye bye Hoax Asshat. Still haven’t proven your diety exists, your babble is inerrant, or your church hierarchy isn’t morally bankrupt. What a loser. You have no business pontificating to anyone.
Because if the one thing Nazis stood against, it was Christianity!
/sigh
hmm… didn’t see the euphemism rules. I guess I’ll have to re-write my earlier post.
I’m tired of people complaining about the vocals in death metal and black metal. The most raw forms of those genres are savage and disgusting music and thus are meant to have savage and disgusting vocals. Melodic vocals would just not make any sense! To me it’s like complaining that the Marquis de Sade has good satire and some interesting philosophy, but too much sex and violence. Why the f_u_ck are you reading it then?
Anyway, just to clear things up, Behemoth play mainly death metal now. Only their early albums are in the black metal style. They’re an ok band, but nothing compared to Morbid Angel, Carcass, old Cryptopsy, Suffocation, Deicide, Entombed, Incantation, Dismember, Immolation, Death, or Gorguts. As far as black metal goes, Sarcofago had the best blasphemy (and were rocking as hell, total punk/thrash attitude). Bathory and Darkthrone are also among the best.
For some more recent weird and awesome black metal, Deathspell Omega is certainly the best right now. Great lyrics too. They’re lyrical themes are based on the writings of Georges Bataille and are very poetically blasphemous, plus their music is very dissonant, angular, and weird for black metal, combining elements of traditional black metal with post-punk/noise rock, industrial/noise, technical death metal, and modern classical.
He’s stated numerous times that he does not subscribe to neo-Nazi beliefs. Yeah, a race-concious heathen might be a descrption. I’m not trying to defend his more deplorable views, but he’s not nearly the bogeyman people make him out to be. Basically this guy now lives on a little farm with his wife and daughter and makes music while sometimes writing articles about Norse culture on his website. He’s not a Nazi.
Hey, hoax, why do you keep coming here when you’re so unwelcome you’ve even been banned? I just don’t get it.
The more conservative a society is, the stronger is its omertà. Don’t tell me you didn’t think of this yourself.
Écoute, fraude, si tu crois vraiment que tu puisses nous impressionner avec un peu de français… démerde-toi, quoi.
The Vatican Exorcist has been interviewed again. He seems to have changed his mind about demons in the vatican.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/16/vatican.exorcist.devil/index.html?hpt=T2
“Nothing occurs without the permission of God, and he allows even holy people, even saints, to be possessed by the devil,” he said.
But, he added, he sees no evil in the Vatican today:
“I just see good people in the Vatican. People of prayer, holy people, I don’t see any evil.”
“I just see good people in the Vatican. People of prayer, holy people, I don’t see any evil.”
yet.
…until his payoffs stop coming…
Well, the RCC tends to see holy people where the rest of the world sees pedophiles.
The excuse for the whole scandal comes down to, “The Devil made me do it.”
And D0n0hue finally did a sickening press release:
Tuesday March 16, 2010
NEW YORK TIMES TARGETS THE POPE AGAIN
March 16, 2010
Catholic League president Bill Donohue comments on the latest attack on the pope by the New York Times:
Once upon a time there was a homosexual priest who was accused of molesting boys in Germany. That was 30 years ago. At the approval of Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger (now the pope), he was sent away for therapy and was later reinstated; years later, under a new archbishop, there was another incident and more therapy.
We know this because the New York Times (which does not like to report on molesting rabbis in 2010), told us about this on Saturday in a front-page article. Today, it ran a front-page article on the same story. Was there any difference? Yes. On Saturday, the Times was only able to identify the priest as bearing the initial “H.” Today, it has real news: his name is Hullermann. And now “H” has been suspended.
Was it wrong to send abusers to therapy? Is it wrong today? The Times does not say. While it is painfully obvious that psychologists and psychiatrists have oversold their competency in treating abusers, it has long been considered to be both scientifically and ethically sound. It still is. Perhaps that view is unwarranted, but it is flatly unfair to cherry pick Catholic decision-makers for indictment when therapy fails.
The Times also wrote today that when the pope was Cardinal Ratzinger under Pope John Paul II, he was “in charge of reviewing sexual abuse cases for the Vatican.” In doing so, the Times leaves the impression that Ratzinger was in charge of overseeing these cases when the scandal developed. Nonsense. The Times reported on January 9, 2002 that he had just been appointed to this role. Thus, he had nothing to do with this issue at the time when most of the abuse took place (mid-60s to mid-80s).
The Times has a vested ideological interest in keeping this story alive. To say it dislikes Pope Benedict XVI intensely is an understatement.
Contact NYT Public Editor Clark Hoyt: public@nytimes.com
How about having both?
Amorphis – The Smoke, Sampo
…or Agalloch. I do not quite agree with their worldview, but the music is great. Not Unlike the Waves
However, when it comes to growls, Bloodbath is hard to beat.
Cancer of the Soul
This comment is in response to comment #7 – sorry I’m late to the debate, I’ve been busy trying to stop the catholics of Nicaragua from murdering pregnant women.
I refute that the Bible is immortal. Whether you believe it is inspired by God, the fact is it was written by humans. It was then EDITTED by some other humans, mainly – guess who? – the early Roman catholic church! If you took the Bible we’ve got today, and translated it (which changes it to start with) and showed it to, say, saint Mark, he would tell you it had been changed, in some places beyond recognition.
Also, if what Nergal’s done is blasphemous, he’s not even trying compared to contemporaries, whom I’m sure I don’t need to name.
Been busy, thus late, but now that this comment thread is pretty much dead, I thought I’d still post this here:
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2010/03/two-they-say-to-tango.html
Oh, and I think it’s necessary to point out the existence of the post-metal band Giant Squid.
And of course, the Ocean’s mascot.