*shakes tentacle at the guy who makes a living from being a ham*
Jadehawk, OMsays
Fascinating how gender stereotypes differ between cultures. Where I come from*, women just know how much of everything they need, and men painstakingly count the grams and milliliters.
* Though, actually, maybe it’s just my sister. ;-)
no, it’s not just your sister. none of the stuff I learned from my mom comes with measurements. you just add stuff until it’s right (jokingly called measuring “π razy oko“) :-p
Daniasays
[Ah, so that’s why this comment I tried to post on the last subThread didn’t went through…]
That was one reason (the other was Real flash video downloader also broke) that I converted back 3.5. With Dania’s link, time to test it out again.
I converted back to 3.5 because of that too, but then I decided to investigate further and found this. I have no idea why the Mozilla Add-ons’ page was not updated. It should be.
Marmelade! Uh, oh. My addiction to oranges has been triggered.
Believe it or not, I’ve only recently discovered that, in English, “marmalade” refers to a fruit preserve made from orange and not from quince (that would be quince cheese). It looks like Wikipedia knows where this confusion comes from:
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, “marmalade” appeared in English language in 1480, borrowed from French marmelade which, in turn, came from the Portuguese marmelada. […] In Portuguese, according to the root of the word, which is marmelo, “quince”, marmelada is a preserve made from quinces, quince cheese.
Well, I didn’t know that.
badgersdaughtersays
My mom didn’t measure anything, but that’s because she apparently came hardwired with twenty recipes and no storage for any extension packs. My father was a Hungarian engineer, and boy, he could cook like hell. But he never measured anything either; he learned to cook from his mother. I learned to cook from taking home copies of the typescript for Julia Child’s The Way to Cook and practicing at home. I don’t measure anything either, because I can eyeball quantities.
toomanytribblessays
snicker.
tothsays
PHIL HARTMAN :((((
Rogersays
I wish I could cook. I’ve tried, and I swear, everything has come out like some form of culinary abortion.
Brownian, OMsays
A friend of mine is voice actor in Vancouver who puts food on the table and helps support his theatre and other work through voice acting, mostly English overdubs of popular anime series. (If you’re at all a fan of the genre, you’ve likely heard his work.) When he first got into the industry, he was baffled by an invitation to attend a convention. “Who the hell even knows who I am?” he asked a colleague who’d been around much longer than he. “Trust me, my friend, you will be treated like a goddamn rock star,” his friend reassured him. Since then, he’s been sent more phone numbers and nude photos of extremely attractive young women (and likely a few men) than he can count. Fans are indeed a passionate bunch.
That said, I’m glad that these days you’re more likely to be treated as a socially inept doofus if you profess ignorance of Battlestar Galactica than have an opinion on the (extremely disappointing, IMNSHO) series-ending season 4.5.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Badgersdaughter – If you happen to have a good recipe for chicken paprikash, I’d be glad to have it. Exact measurements not required – I know how to estimate.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Brownian:
Battlestar Galactica than have an opinion on the (extremely disappointing, IMNSHO) series-ending season 4.5.
Total, unadulterated ass, and not in a good way. And the finale? Kara Thrace just disappears into thin air, no explanation? Wretched ending to a show I adored.
David Marjanovićsays
“π razy oko”
π mal Daumen in Vienna.
BTW, you seem to be in a surprisingly good mood for having only slept 7 hours after having stayed up so long. (Either that, or I fail math forever.)
Lynna, OMsays
I Grok Spock … and Poopyhead PZ.
badgersdaughtersays
Josh OSG, I promise when I get home, I’ll send you two “official” recipes, and the way my dad used to make it, for comparison. It should go without saying, but so often is not, that you should use fresh paprika from Hungary and organic chicken that actually tastes like chicken. (Every time I accompanied him to the grocery store, Dad would go off on “dead green American produce”, “stale red sand from Spain”, and “chickens that taste like they were raised underwater”.)
Daniasays
*shakes tentacle…
:-) :-) :-)
We should totally find a picture in which that could be used as a caption.
It can’t be this one because it already means something else, but I think a similar one would do.
Judy L.says
Always nice to see and hear Phil Hartman. :)
Rogersays
That said, I’m glad that these days you’re more likely to be treated as a socially inept doofus if you profess ignorance of Battlestar Galactica than have an opinion on the (extremely disappointing, IMNSHO) series-ending season 4.5.
Oh, do NOT get me started on that damnable season 4.5 of BSG. I mean, these people have been to hell and gone and Ron Moore and co. are all, “Hey, let’s fuck ’em all up even MORE. It’ll be fun! That’ll keep people watching!” In addition to Lee Fucking Adama being a whiny bitch, we were treated to his dad also acting like a drooling, crying, vomiting bitch. Fun, right?
And the less said about “Daybreak,” the better. Essentially, it was a literal deus ex machina. Nearly a year later, and I still hate that shit.
Cainesays
Jadehawk, OM @ 5:
none of the stuff I learned from my mom comes with measurements.
Same here. Neither of my great-grandmothers measured nor did my grandmother. Measuring stuff out feels wrong, that’s probably why I rarely bake.
AJ Milnesays
Nearly a year later, and I still hate that shit.
My measure of how badly it was starting to fall apart: I never did get ’round to watching the last several episodes.
I’d been watching everything in several days to a week delay on PVR, a simple necessity forced upon me by a busy life… And don’t get me wrong, I liked a lot of the series about as much as anything in the medium. It was the only show I was bothering, at the time, to watch systematically at all.
But somehow, as the end crept up, I kept thinking: I’ll get ’round to it. The whole pile of ’em was stacked up in there, anyway…
And I never did. I wasn’t so much consciously thinking ‘I don’t want to watch it end in such a botch, so let’s try to imagine it dying a little more gracefully’… But this is essentially where I wound up. The writing just seemed to keep getting more and more mangled, and I just found myself caring less and less, less and less motivated actually to sit down and get through it all.
I may still watch ’em. I guess. Maybe. And then again, I may not. They’re long deleted from the drive now, of course. I’d have to find the DVD set somewhere.
David Marjanovićsays
At this point I should probably mention that I don’t measure what little I can cook. Except that, for 2 portions of rice, I need 1 mug of rice and 2 mugs of water, and making cube soup requires a few eyeballed mm of water above the standing cube.
+ 1
Jadehawk, OMsays
Assuming you’re on North American Central Time (Wikipedia says North Dakota is split between Central and Mountain Time), am I right in saying that it’s about 5.30am where you are?! And I thought my sleeping habits were bad…
what’s with the prejudice against night owls? I get a regular 7-9 hours of sleep every night, and go to sleep almost at the same time every night (+/-3 hours). It just so happens that I’m most productive in the middle of the night, and most useless before noon.
That transition is where I have the greatest difficulty. That old joke about “if you want to get there I wouldn’t start from here” keeps rising in my mind.
too fucking true…
One way people can help reduce their carbon footprint is to live closer to their work if they drive.
approximately 15 steps between bed and workstation ;-)
Science is a major element of our only hope. It must be combined with a large reduction in consumption in our countries. I don’t happen to think this would be a bad thing even for the people who think they are benefiting from the current system.
seconded. shall I insist Walton go back and (re-)read my awesome consumption-as-addiction anecdote/metaphor thingy?
I consume maybe half the resources of the average U.S. citizen. That’s a rough estimate. Maybe it’s 60% or 40%, but the exact figure doesn’t matter for my point to hold. I’m fairly poor, so this isn’t only a conscious decision but also a financial necessity for me. Still, I don’t live in fucking “squalor”.
oh yeah, that, too. As much as I whine about my shitty life quality, I’m actually happier than when I had more stuff and consumed more. You’d be surprised how little stuff people need to be happy, and that scarcity of non-necessary things actually makes people happier, at least from my experience. mostly this experience is about food and a sort of voluntary taboo on certain foods except for special occasions: preserving certain foods for special occasions, even though it’s theoretically and financially possible to eat it every day, makes people enjoy it a lot more than if they do actually eat it often.
One of the great “benefits” of capitalism is to produce and push down your throat more stuff at a lesser cost and a lesser quality.
and I’ve yet to meet a person who’s actually happy with the crap from Walmart; but they keep on going back there, because it’s cheap *facepalm*
I think I’ve already mentioned the jacket I’ve been wearing for, like, 15 years now, when it probably was 30 years old already – my dad had got it when he lived in the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
most of the stuff I inherited from family are things like scarves and mittens. I have a huge blue scarf my aunt made when she was starting college :-)
Just probably not by enough of a margin.
Especially so at the current kinds of science budgets. Why aren’t billions thrown at research into how to make some use of solar energy, to name just one little thing?
well, technology/science in a capitalist society won’t save us, as others have pointed out. because capitalism just doesn’t give a flying fuck about the future; it can’t. and now that the system is slowly falling apart, the future (i.e. basic R&D and targeted development at possible future technologies) is the first casualty.
The riskiest adventure I’ve ever consciously embarked on has worked, I think.
you’re adorable
For now, here’s to Jadehawk, a piece of internet cheesecake, and a happy birthday.
mmm…. internet cheesecake….
And let’s not forget that services also consume critical resources.
starbucks will single-handedly drown us in “recycled” paper cups…
I hadn’t noticed the first time around – the crocuses are blossoming. They have come out over the weekend.
it snowed yesterday again. but it’s unseasonably warm for February. it’s 22F; it’s supposed to be -22F :-p
It goes without saying that none of these ideas is new. They’re all at least 10 years old.
Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House; Ronald Reagan tore them back down. How different history could have been *sigh*
And fuck dignity. Honor is for Klingons, not for humans.
you know, there’s a difference between dignity and honor. Us Neurotypicals don’t work well without the former. It makes us miserable to be treated like scum, you know…
BTW, you seem to be in a surprisingly good mood for having only slept 7 hours after having stayed up so long. (Either that, or I fail math forever.)
it happens, sometimes. don’t get used to it :-)
Drakensays
This thread fills up at an exponential rate. Without threadiation therapy or topistatica, it will finally ooze out of /pharyngula and spill over in the rest of scienceblogs, and go on in a hungry quest for the whole blogosphere.
Blake Staceysays
Huh. I remembered that they got the episode numbers wrong in that sketch, but I hadn’t noticed before that they used James T. Kirk’s middle name, which didn’t become canon until six years later with The Undiscovered Country. Some SNL writer did their homework.
Carliesays
I envy the people who can wear clothes long enough until they become vintage. I somehow manage to stain them beyond all acceptable wearage within a year or so – the more I like the clothes, the sooner they become unwearable. :(
a_ray_in_dilbert_spacesays
negentropyeater,
From the previous incarnation–regarding transformation away from a growth-based economy.
It is not just capitalist economies that have difficulty getting by without growth. China (which one could argue is quasi-capitalist) requires an 8.5% growth rate just to maintain its current unemployment rate.
Basically, there has been no human economy that has dealt well with a lack of economic and/or population growth. In the middle ages, the result was initially famine followed by feudalism.
However, I would contend that it is not impossible. Rosenfeld’s law has unfolded without any intervention or active encouragement. It ought to be possible to accelerate the savings. And again, the remarkable thing is not the percent a year, but rather that the trend has sustained itself for so long.
I would also contend that advances in technology can produce economic growth without increasing resource consumption, and that while material goods are necessary, they are not the only measure of economic activity.
I don’t think it is hopeless. I do think humans as a species are too stupid to work it out, though.
badgersdaughtersays
I’ve yet to meet a person who’s actually happy with the crap from Walmart…
Well, I have some things that I like that are from Walmart and that were extremely good values. A 4-inch memory foam mattress topper for my spare bed, an assortment of mugs for coffee and tea, a french press for coffee, frozen shrimp, T-shirts to make crafty messes on, a replacement showerhead.
But I have other things I’m not so crazy about. I once bought a sheet set from another store and then saw the same set at Wal-mart, so I bought it there intending to return the first set. When I got them side-by-side, it was very obvious that the Wal-mart set was MUCH crappier than the non-Wal-mart set. Packaged the same way, everything, except that down in very tiny print in the corner of the back label of the Wal-mart set was “Made for Wal-Mart.”
Yes, it is 100% true that many manufacturers make a cheaper version of their products so Wal-mart can foist it off on the unsuspecting as the full-quality version.
Jadehawk, OMsays
BTW, you seem to be in a surprisingly good mood for having only slept 7 hours after having stayed up so long. (Either that, or I fail math forever.)
it happens, sometimes. don’t get used to it :-)
I should add that there’s probably an afternoon nap in my future, if only because the +/-3 at the top of that post should have been +/-1.5… though +/-2 is probably more realistic, and if I can, do try to get 9-10 hours of sleep (because then I don’t need an afternoon nap :-p )
Rogersays
My measure of how badly it was starting to fall apart: I never did get ’round to watching the last several episodes.
What I do is watch “Revelations” right up to the point where they fade to black, and then selectively skip around the actual finale, ignoring the dumbshit that I find stupid. I pretend that most of season 4.5 simply didn’t happen.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
I tend to avoid Walmart due to their predatory actions in small towns. Last time I was in one was when I was replacing our microwave, which finally gave up the ghost after 28 years of service. Walmart was the only place carrying the highly rated desired replacement by Consumer Reports. That was over a year ago.
David Marjanovićsays
Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House; Ronald Reagan tore them back down. How different history could have been *sigh*
Don’t remind me. <facepalm>
Really, Fearless Flightsuit wasn’t needed at all. It was already known what a seriously stupid president behaves like. <shakes fist at FSM>
you know, there’s a difference between dignity and honor. Us Neurotypicals don’t work well without the former. It makes us miserable to be treated like scum, you know…
Sure, but, in an age when there’s simply not enough work for everyone, it no longer makes sense to be ashamed of being unemployed. That’s what I mean.
I don’t think it is hopeless. I do think humans as a species are too stupid to work it out, though.
Sort of the opposite of the German proverb “the situation is hopeless but not serious”.
China (which one could argue is quasi-capitalist) requires an 8.5% growth rate just to maintain its current unemployment rate.
And before they introduced that largely capitalist economy, they had the Great Leap Forward Off The Cliff, and tens of millions of people starved. That’s even worse than needing 8.5 % growth per year.
Silisays
mostly English overdubs of popular anime series.
How about obscure, almost decade-old anime whose only purpose was to sell a stupid toy?
(I promise I won’t send him any nude photos.)
windysays
Hehehe, PZ channeling Shatner:
“You’ve turned an enjoyable little blog, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!”
David Marjanovićsays
“You’ve turned an enjoyable little blog, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!”
90 % of my social life is a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME…? I don’t quite think so. :-)
Owlmirrorsays
[I am cross-posting this with the TetZoo, both because it’s interesting, and because there may be some problem with commenting there; I’m not sure.]
The first comment on the other thread that went missing was from someone from Sweden, which included a link to an image of a babirusa skull at the Gothenburg Museum of Natural History (G
Jadehawk, OMsays
Sure, but, in an age when there’s simply not enough work for everyone, it no longer makes sense to be ashamed of being unemployed. That’s what I mean.
the point is less shame, and more that being useless makes people miserable. People who are unemployed (or retired, for that matter) but feel useful in some other way (parenting, volunteering, even gardening) don’t generally suffer the same loss of dignity that people who simply don’t have that.
so, more equitable spread of the work that exists would be better than having one part of the population severely overworked, and another feeling useless, i.e. what we have now and what can only get worse.
Windy @34
TvTropes is a colossal waste of time, this thread is a long and interesting discourse on many subjects of COLOSSAL intellectual interest Long may it continue
I’ve been scratching my head wondering whether trying to make potatoes and tofu tasty counts as not getting a life, or perhaps, by Pharyngula standards, as getting a life. I just dunno.
(But at least Blake’s here displaying his knowledge of Star Trek episode numbers, so I don’t feel too bad.)
—
Paul’s (possibly-sweet) potatoes with asafetida and cumin
(This is good with sweet potatoes, too, just different. And sweeter. You may need to go to an Indian grocery for asafetida powder, which is actually more gum arabic than asafetida. Straight asafetida in a block is stronger and I don’t know the right dosage.)
Ingredients
1 lb red potatoes, sliced into 1/4″ slices and cut into pieces 1 sq. inch or a bit smaller (maybe 1″ the longer way).
6 to 8 oz. diced tomatoes (or half a 14 oz can)
3 or 4 cloves garlic, minced or pressed
1 tablespoon Paul’s double-spiced niter kebbeh (Ethiopian spiced butter)
1/2 tablespoon red pepper sesame oil
3/4 tsp ground cumin
1/2 tsp cayenne pepper
1/2 tsp asafetida (a.k.a. asafoetida) powder
1/4 tsp salt
1 oz or so water
Directions
1. Heat niter kibbeh and red pepper sesame oil in a big skillet (until spitting when you drop droplets of water in)
2. Add asafetida and cumin, cook 20 seconds, stirring; don’t burn. (The asafetida will smell like musky, fetid ass—they’re not kidding about the “fetid” part—but that’s okay. It will end up tasting good.)
3. Add a little water (about 1 oz.?), stir.
4. Add potatoes and garlic, stir.
5. Cover and cook a while (10 min?) over low heat, to steam potatoes.
6. Uncover and saute a while, cooking off water and sauteing potatoes over higher heat until about as tender as you like them (not falling apart) and browned a bit.
7. Add tomatoes and salt.
8. Cover and cook on low heat a while, stirring occasionally.
Serve as a side dish, maybe with a dollop of sour cream, or garnished with something.
Owlmirrorsays
And on a linguistic note, I infer that “hjort” is cognate with the English “hart”, just as “svin” is cognate with the English “swine”.
I have never bought a colour inkjet printer, and I don’t think I ever will. Monochrome laser printers have their own foibles, but at least avoid the absurd refusal to print black when one of the colour cartridges is empty.
/bigotry
How about obscure, almost decade-old anime whose only purpose was to sell a stupid toy?
I dunno. Here’s his IMDB page. I was never much into anime.
Okay, back to ‘work’, which I consider a waste of time beyond the fact that my engaging in it allows me to pay rent, purchase alcohol, and other necessities.
negentropyeatersays
Basically, there has been no human economy that has dealt well with a lack of economic and/or population growth.
Japan has been dealing with it for about 15 years. The only way they’ve managed so far was thanks to an explosion of government debt, which they could sustain thanks to their large current account surpluses (they didn’t require foreign financing). But this won’t obviously work on a global scale. We’ve now seen the begining of the explosion of Government debt for most developped nations, and already now, the competition for financing is such that the weakest nations are already on the verge of bankruptcy (cf Greece and Dubaï). The growing risk of a cascading sovereign debt crisis is now on everyone’s mind.
The US and other western nations also dealt with zero growth for two decades after 1929. With the consequences we know.
It ought to be possible to accelerate the savings.
I doubt it will be possible with the current model of unfettered finance-led capitalism. It will require a great deal of government intervention, regulation and planning. This will slow economic growth. Seeing what came out of Copenhaguen, I doubt we’re taking that route. Countries are back in the race to achieve the fastest economic growth possible (for how long?).
Stimulating consumption from credit at all cost is back in the saddle like before the crisis. We have no other recipie.
I would also contend that advances in technology can produce economic growth without increasing resource consumption, and that while material goods are necessary, they are not the only measure of economic activity.
Maybe it’s possible, but it hasn’t been the case for the last few centuries. I think there is something fundamentally flawed with any socio-economic system that has at its basis property rights and an incessant drive towards competition.
(A snap from the recent BBC Triffids remake, for any Izzard fans passing by:)
Sven DiMilosays
by request (of the previous vid):
Sven DiMilosays
then
Sven DiMilosays
nigelTheBoldsays
Eddie Izzard is in a Day of the Triffids remake? Cool! Want!
Sven DiMilosays
turnaround: fair play?
windysays
@45: that’s a classic
Sven DiMilosays
OK, just one more…on the “advice from Shatner” tip:
Alan Bsays
Share and Enjoy – Real Science
There is a science called Taphonomy. It studies the kind of thing where you say, “I can see that’s important but I never knew there was a science about it”. (I am, of course, excluding David M because paleontologists know a lot about it.)
Wiki gives a reasonable definition:
“Taphonomy is the study of decaying organisms over time and how they become fossilized (if they do)”
.
Martin Brazeau is a postdoctoral fellow at the Museum für Naturkunde (Museum of Natural History) Berlin, Germany. He has a blog called The Lancelet which is subtitled, “Stuff about palaeontology, systematics, general biology, and whatever I feel like ranting about when it comes to news, politics, pop culture, or whatever else.”
(Looks like it’s worth going back to occasionally)
He has recently put up an interesting summary of some recent work published in Nature (and hence behind a paywall):
Taphonomy is the branch of research that is interested in describing what happens to an organism between dying and ending up as a fossil (or even why it won’t end up as a fossil). A lot can happen to an organism in that period of time, as the earth is a dynamic spheroid. The older a fossil, the more possible disturbances it can experience. Taphonomy can tell us a lot about the environment an organism was deposited in and it can provide important controls on the inferences we make about the environment we think a fossil organism once lived in. But taphonomy is also an important consideration in considering what an organism is. That is, the ‘life’ of a fossil after death, might have a profound impact on how we place that fossil in the tree of life.
He talks particularly about*:
Sansom, R.S., Gabbott, S.E., and Purnell. M.A.2010. Non-random decay of chordate characters causes bias in fossil interpretation. Nature 463:797-800
What Sansom et al. did reminds me a bit of some of the recipes on The Thread. He let larval lamprey and lancelets rot in buckets of sea water and recorded the progress of the decay over the period of several months. (Recipe instrction: Take a bucket of well-rotted lamprey …) As the animals decayed the amount of soft tissue left and able to be fossilised decreased (and the atmosphere in the laboratory changed, I presume).
Sansom et al. recorded the effect of decay on those types of characters that would be used to score an organism for a phylogenetic analysis. The blog post and the Nature paper gives details but the level of decay and removal of these characters would lead one to think that the taxon was signicantly more distantly related to the vertebrates, much like the early chordates we find in the Cambrian.
Not only do these results provide a caution against how we interpret soft-bodied Cambrian chordates, but it illustrates a framework for studying the phylogenetic effects of decay. As decay is studied across a wider phylogenetic scope, the more we can determine about the generality of these types of patterns. That will have a profound effect on how we study and interpret the exceptional cases of soft-tissue preservation in fossils.
It is interesting that in previous incarnations of the thread [Geological] Josh had to introduce Alan Clarke and RogerS to the science of Taphonomy because they apparently had never considered the implications of preservation (or otherwise) of body features during fossilisation. Such studies bring fascination to real scientists. There seems to be little consideration of such observations in YEC thinking.
* He also includes another reference without discussing it in his comments:
I tend to avoid Walmart due to their predatory actions in small towns.
^This. There was a regular size Walmart in Bismarck for years. I didn’t shop there, but it did plenty of business and took enough business away from local shops as it was. Then they decided to super-size. Built the new super-sized, ginormous wallyland. All of a sudden, Target decided it had to super-size. Local shops? What are those?
It’s way too much store. Way too much crap. No one needs that much store.
dNorrisMsays
I’ve been thinking about triffid guns for weeks.
Silisays
Sili: your printer problem was a classic “Dagens I-landsproblem”. [in swedish]
I had trouble understanding the nagging codriver, but I immediately noticed the Danish channel on the surfing.
Silisays
I dunno. Here’s his IMDB page. I was never much into anime.
Nor I, actually. I do have way too many manga, though.
Never heard of him. And only of a few bits of his work.
‘Tis, I still don’t know what to do with that hot oil.
But the auberges where yummy nonetheless, if a bit dry – prolly due to the lack of oil. And I used too little tomatosauce, I think.
Akira MacKenziesays
That sketch always pissed me off for several:
Been with a woman? Right, Bill, because women are all in unatheletic men with more brains than looks! At least when you’re jerking off to fantasies involving Leather-clad Klingon women or Green Orion sex slaves, your hand doesn’t say “Ewwwww, like, get away from me you nerd!”
(Yes, I’m bitter. I have the fucking right to be!)
As for “getting a life.’ We have one Billy… putting money in your overacting pockets and keeping you in toupees and girdles! Or would you rather see that swag go to Patrick Stewart, ungrateful asshole?
Brownian, OMsays
Never heard of him. And only of a few bits of his work.
What? That sumbitch told me he was famous and could make me a star if only I did what he asked me to, and then he…and then he…it was horrible.
Jadehawk, OMsays
so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more. I shall have to do some cleaning, methinks
*embarrassed*
Brownian, OMsays
(Yes, I’m bitter. I have the fucking right to be!)
I must protest, Captain. I am not a Merry Man!
Easy on the girdle cracks, Akira. Some of us have noticed our physiques becoming distinctly more Shatner-esqe as we age.
Owlmirrorsays
so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more.
???
MrFiresays
Oh, do NOT get me started on that damnable season 4.5 of BSG.
I suppose nobody will stand with me and admit a fondness for (or even knowledge of) the latest season Heroes.
I like Dexter too, if that gives me back cool points.
Brownian, OMsays
so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more.
Parenting in the electronic age:
“No, you don’t get any more Internet until you finish what’s already on your browser. And don’t look at me like that; I don’t care how many gigabytes your friends are downloading. If they all farked off a bridgeserver, would you too?”
badgersdaughtersays
I suppose nobody will stand with me and admit a fondness for (or even knowledge of) the latest season Heroes.
Not me. I don’t know much about TV. That’s one of the things I don’t waste money on.
For my part, I suppose there are a few other lady commenters here (and also a few gentlemen) who will stand with me and admit a fondness for, and even a knowledge of, men with more brains than looks. Brains, you see, are their own type of “looks.” Good-looking men with no brains are like chocolate made from shit.
Orakiosays
#60
… That IMDB made me pop a boner. And 95% of english dub-overs on anime want me want to punch the voice actors.
He’s in on Gundam. That alone is enormous enough, but there’s some pretty large shows on there.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Good-looking men with no brains are like chocolate made from shit.
I’ll have one brain-filled hunk please!
Well an intellegent good looking man is still useless if he’s douche/jerk.
Owlmirrorsays
Eddie Izzard is in a Day of the Triffids remake? Cool! Want!
I haven’t seen it myself; I just thought the “Cake or death?” stuff would amuse.
badgersdaughtersays
Well an intellegent good looking man is still useless if he’s douche/jerk.
Ahem, well, yes, um, that was the flaw in my latest model, and, um, I had to obsolete it, and, um, and I’m back to the drawing board again.
BRING ME MORE BRAAAAINS!!!
Brownian, OMsays
Brains, you see, are their own type of “looks.
Just the kind of looks that don’t show up across a crowded room, a popular dance club, a large lecture hall, etc. That’s about as reassuring as being told you have a “nice personality.” I mean, if she’s giving you a chance to showcase your brains, you’re already halfway there.
Perhaps if we could just encourage every woman in the world to actually talk to us before writing us off, Akira and I could take solace in that fact.
(I’m only half-kidding, as I know women with more brains than looks often feel the same way, and I’m all too quickly bored with brainless girls, but it would be nice to be that person with brains, a personality, and looks that make perfect strangers undress you with their eyes. Nowadays, if I want women to talk about my looks or my body, I have to resort to snatching purses in full view of multiple witnesses.)
If you missed it, homeopathy took a hit in the UK. Quackometer reports this is The Bleakest Day for Homeopathy. It is recommended that the NHS cut off all funding of those placebo treatments.
It is recommended that the NHS cut off all funding of those placebo treatments.
Ooh, if true, a very good idea.
NovaCsays
#75
It may be recommended….but,will they do it?
Akira MacKenziesays
Sorry, I got a lot of baaaaaad, self-esteem-destroying memories left over from middle school through college that years of therapy are yet to mitigate.
badgersdaughtersays
Don’t apologize for feeling pain when you’re hurt, Akira.
windysays
Just the kind of looks that don’t show up across a crowded room, a popular dance club, a large lecture hall, etc.
There’s always the intertubes.
Daniasays
Perhaps if we could just encourage every woman in the world to actually talk to us before writing us off, Akira and I could take solace in that fact.
One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.
Brownian, OMsays
Sorry, I got a lot of baaaaaad, self-esteem-destroying memories left over from middle school through college that years of therapy are yet to mitigate.
I went to the same school from K through Grade 6. A combination of genes and various stages of puberty caused me to become rather ‘portly’ toward the latter, but the friends I’d grown up with never saw the need to comment. On my first day arriving at a new school in Grade 7 I was christened the “fat kid from the shitty part of town”, to my surprise. I think I’ve managed to take most of those experiences in stride (I’m super fucked-up in other ways, though, so cheers!), but I know more than a few people for whom middle and high school were living hells they’re not comfortable talking about with anyone other than a professional psychologist, psychiatrist, or counsellor.
I’m sorry to hear your experiences were like theirs, Akira.
llewellysays
so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more. I shall have to do some cleaning, methinks
Completely the wrong reaction. Instead, submit a bug report.
Daniasays
Or what windy said…
Akira MacKenziesays
On my first day arriving at a new school in Grade 7 I was christened the “fat kid from the shitty part of town…”
Heh, in the 4 years of hell others refer to as “high school,” I was told that I that I couldn’t get a $2 whore to fuck me even if I paid her $2 million. This observation was confirmed by the reaction most females gave me which ranged from cold indifference to utter disgust. I didn’t date anyone until I was in my mid-twenties and the ONE relationship I had ended in tears… my own. Now I’m 35 and I’m looking forward to a life of sexless misery as my body continues to get fatter and uglier (well, more so than it was back then).
Here to hopin’ that death comes soon.
Lynna, OMsays
Free Lunch @75: Thanks for the link. Great article. I especially liked this:
Government should not allow patients to buy non-evidence-based treatments such as homeopathy with public money.
An example of insurance not paying of naturopathic services, even in naturopath-friendly Utah:
Most insurance providers in Utah do not cover for services by naturopathic doctors. Dr. Wright is not contracted with any insurance companies and cannot accept insurance. Your insurance policy is a contract between you and your insurance company.
Here’s an example of what you can pay for with your own hard-earned money, should you be so gullible:
Ion Cleanse: $40 per hour
Intravenous Micronutrient Therapy: $12-17 injection; $55 Push; $95 Bag, plus $10 to $30 for additional supplements if needed.
Constitutional Hydrotherapy: $35 alternating hot and cold applications can increase circulation and speed healing
llewellysays
Akira MacKenzie | February 22, 2010 3:33 PM:
Been with a woman? Right, Bill, because women are all in unatheletic men with more brains than looks! At least when you’re jerking off to fantasies involving Leather-clad Klingon women or Green Orion sex slaves, your hand doesn’t say “Ewwwww, like, get away from me you nerd!”
Apparent self-confidence is a primary factor in mate selection. A certain amount of social interaction functions to destroy self-confidence in those who would otherwise compete for desirable mates. That’s what this clip does. It contains themes which come from the intellectually dishonest, vile, and entirely irredeemable methods people use to destroy the self-confidence of those they perceive to be smarter.
Dania | February 22, 2010 4:51 PM:
One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.
That’s nice, but the confidence-destroying strategy is a neat end-run around such things; it ensures some people will never have the confidence to act, regardless of the potential of online social connections.
Owlmirrorsays
For those that follow the TetZoo:
There is nothing wrong at the TetZoo.
I am not at liberty to say more.
*looks mysterious, steps back into shadows and disappears*
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Here to hopin’ that death comes soon.
Don’t be so pessimistic. Sexual attraction is only one part of a relationship. There is also emotional attraction.
If it’s any consolation, at least you didn’t spend high school trying to date girls in an attempt to make yourself straight.
David Marjanovićsays
Ah, Shatner vidz, is it????
bwahahahahahahahahaha
~:-| Bizarre. Obviously I know about Lucy in the Sgäää with Dääämonds because of its significance in the history of science (it was played at the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology meeting in September when a cast of Lucy was auctioned), and I even know who William Shatner is, but… is it supposed to make sense? Is it supposed to be funny? I don’t get any such impression. Please explain.
He has recently put up an interesting summary of some recent work published in Nature (and hence behind a paywall):
Fortunately I watched the talk about this at the abovementioned SVP meeting, so I can ignore the paywall and the fact that the National (!) Natural History Museum can’t pay for online access…
so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
IE doesn’t give me any such problems. The problem I have is that the list is too long to find anything! I started long ago to put some order into it (created a few subfolders), but that has had very little effect so far.
I mean, if she’s giving you a chance to showcase your brains, you’re already halfway there.
Or on the Internet.
Or both…
Rogersays
If it’s any consolation, at least you didn’t spend high school trying to date girls in an attempt to make yourself straight.
That would be me. From h.s. (aka Hell) through college, I tried to date women in a vain attempt to convince myself I was not at all attracted to any number of guys on campus. ‘Twas sad.
sfbay4eversays
Apologies for barging in and trying to introduce a new topic here – I’ve been reading about this new energy company called Bloom Energy that is making news all day. I searched scienceblogs.com and there’s no blog about this at all!
The homeopathy report thingy had a spot om the BBC 10 o’clock news tonight. There was a (very short) interview with a woo-doctor as well for ‘balance’, but overall, it was pretty good.
badgersdaughtersays
Llewelly… that is great talk there, about why kids (people) try to destroy the self-confidence of other kids (people). I needed to hear that. It put a puzzle piece in place for me that’s always been missing.
Even when I was a kid, I refused to see relationships as that sort of zero-sum game, and I lost, badly. I have had relationships, but I’ve been taken advantage of, badly. Next relationship, well, that’s going to be better, because I know what went wrong.
Akira, none of us is undeserving of love. None of us. Don’t sit there and shake your head. Love is a natural part of life. Yes, it is.
I’ve been saying Audrey Hepburn’s wonderful quote to myself quite a lot lately… “I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls.” To my surprise, it’s true. I went to a bar last weekend, something I never do, and since I had just come from a wonderful opera, I felt wonderful. I smiled, and felt it, and sat by myself, and looked around, and smiled, and attracted people, which is something I never do. I’m a corporate trainer, and I am popular at work, and that is something I’ve never been. It’s weird. This is what my teenage years were supposed to have been like, I think.
David Marjanovićsays
this new energy company called Bloom Energy that is making news all day
It’s not making any news.
And it can’t. Where is the methane supposed to come from? Natural gas? That would defeat most of the entire purpose…
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
That would be me. From h.s. (aka Hell) through college, I tried to date women in a vain attempt to convince myself I was not at all attracted to any number of guys on campus. ‘Twas sad.
I can relate. There were such extreme (evangelical) pressures in my high school days for the boys to be straight. So I bought into it the idea that my gayness is “just a phase”. I passed up the hot captain of the football team (who was openly gay)for an evangelical christian girl (who otherwise is a smart and talented young lady if it weren’t for the fact that she believes in *gaks* creationism).
davemsays
The Bloom energy machine underwhelms me, unless I’m missing something. It needs a source of methane/hydrocarbons (where from?), and at 800,000 USD, isn’t exactly cheap.
My dad sunk a lot of money into fuel cell startups, only to get discouraged when they didn’t pan out. I’m adopting a wait-and-see attitude on this one as well, though it does look more promising, and I’ll be the first one to cheer and dance if it actually amounts to anything.
Cainesays
Roger @ 92:
That would be me. From h.s. (aka Hell) through college, I tried to date women in a vain attempt to convince myself I was not at all attracted to any number of guys on campus. ‘Twas sad.
Hey, at least you didn’t marry, father a buncha kids then come out of the closet 10 to 15 years later. Several of my friends did that, and it’s a tailor-made mess. Most people have better sense these days, but it still happens.
sfbay4eversays
Where is the methane supposed to come from? Natural gas? That would defeat most of the entire purpose…
If you read the news and watch the videos on cbs news’ website, you will understand that the purpose of this fuel cell is to offer a very efficient conversion of fuel into electricity.
But perhaps I misunderstood you…what purpose did you have in mind that using natural gas would defeat?
Brownian, OMsays
There’s always the intertubes.
One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.
Sure, and I agree (and let’s be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway? I mean, I like to go dancing every once in a while but “Nice outfit!” “What?” “I said, ‘NICE OUTFIT!'” “WHAT?!”-types of conversations aren’t really my thing), but there’s a world of difference between spending time online because you enjoy the company of the people you find there and like the medium of communication or the topics being discussed and feeling you have no choice but to interact online because you aren’t considered attractive or are socially awkward in meatspace.
I’m being a little disingenuous here because the reality is that I am an incredibly social individual for whom there are only a few situations in which I would feel uncomfortable, but it’s hard to pretend away the sting of having been marginalised because I liked science, or science fiction, or thought some of the ideas in that last math class were really interesting, or just couldn’t give a flying fuck what Jari Kurri’s record that year was, or whatever. I’ve also undertaken some pretty severe social experimentation to become so social: I once got a job as a busboy in a popular, ‘hip’ restaurant and made the commitment to act like a ‘player’ from the get go and hit on every single female working there as a way to rid myself of some shyness, and I’ve mentioned before that one of the reasons I incorporate a lot of profanity in my speech is I’ve learned that of a) “Hey, did you hear they discovered a new planet?” and b) “Hey, did you hear–OH MY FUCKING GOD DID YOU SEE THAT FUCKING CHECK WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT GODDAMN FUCKING REF?!–they discovered a new planet?”, b) is more likely not to get you called an ‘egghead’ who ‘must read the dictionary for fun.’
So, yeah, there are a lot more opportunities for socialising today for those less confident or less mainstream thanks to the internet and the growing acceptance of geeks or nerds, but most people would rather not be fat than be told “Hey, a small contingent of people like fatties.”
Heh, in the 4 years of hell others refer to as “high school,” I was told that I that I couldn’t get a $2 whore to fuck me even if I paid her $2 million. This observation was confirmed by the reaction most females gave me which ranged from cold indifference to utter disgust. I didn’t date anyone until I was in my mid-twenties and the ONE relationship I had ended in tears… my own. Now I’m 35 and I’m looking forward to a life of sexless misery as my body continues to get fatter and uglier (well, more so than it was back then).
That’s brutal Akira. I am sorry to hear this. I’ve also had relationships* that resulted in tears (and near-half decades of CBT and antidepressants), and know there’s little to say other than you’re not alone and keep at that therapy, as much as possible. Weak tea I know, but it’s all I’ve got. Oh, and that at some point, at some time, with the right combination of therapy and therapist, it does get better. I still have my good days and my bad days, and I honestly cannot understand what the hell I’m supposed to do with the 30 or 40 years I’ve got left, but once in awhile that little glimmer of joy from being alive I used to get before I felt beaten down resurfaces, and that’s a helluva something sometimes.
*Jilted twice, by the same woman, in the same way, nearly a decade apart. Who says smart people learn?
Daniasays
That’s nice, but the confidence-destroying strategy is a neat end-run around such things; it ensures some people will never have the confidence to act, regardless of the potential of online social connections.
Sure. And I happen to be somewhat familiar with the confidence-destroying strategy you mention, having been on the receiving end of some of it for some time. I wasn’t ugly and the girls who tried to bully me weren’t exactly brainless. It’s just that they were prettier and more confident than me, while I was smarter but shyer than them. I still haven’t understood why they targeted me. I never gave them a reason.
I’m just glad I had real friends at the time who helped me dealing with it all, or I’m sure I would have come out of it with a pretty low self-esteem. I was lucky. :/
badgersdaughtersays
I sure as hell am not going to get over being a girl geek, even though I can do my makeup and hair, wear perfume, sing, flatter, cook, sew, and fuck as well as the best of them. If my future mate can’t dig the fact that I think, and that I care passionately about what I think, and that I care passionately about everything else in my life, he’s going to be in for a surprise.
llewellysays
Owlmirror | February 22, 2010 5:18 PM:
For those that follow the TetZoo:
There is nothing wrong at the TetZoo.
I am not at liberty to say more.
OH NO! Owlmirror has been RECRUITED!!
Darren Naish has used a horrible combination of bribery, blackmail and MIND-CONTROL to manipulate the helpless and formerly innocent Owlmirror into concealing the TRUTH about the skulls of strange-tusked aliens!
Darren … if you are reading this … I hope your new job at Area 51 pays well!!!! And I hope for your sake they provide strong pills so you can sleep at night.
AJ Milnesays
Well, for what it’s worth, this sketch always seriously cracked me up.
It’s the whole setup that leads to the rant, the whole way they put you in Shatner’s head, in that situation…
I sympathize, y’know? I mean, not happening to be an actor in a cult show that engendered that kind of downright obsessive following, I can’t know what that’d be like…
But damn, just imagine it. You’re already having a bad day. Hair plugs givin’ you a rash, toupee gets sucked off by a rogue Roomba, whatever… And then you walk into this place, and these people are asking you these bizarre questions like they actually care… Like maybe even you should…
And it hits you: you just don’t. Not in the least. And why the fuck are you even standing there? Sure, you already pocketed the speaking fee, and the emcee is gonna be seriously pissed… But c’mon… What is this? Some kinda nasty, huge practical joke they’re all playing on you? It strikes you, all of a sudden, as things sometimes do, the whole situation is slightly insane…
And these people even alarm you a little. It plays out so well… I love the text–it doesn’t even read so much as nasty as just from the heart: look, get help, you guys, this can’t be normal. I don’t so much read the ‘Have you ever kissed a girl?’ bit as implying so much nastily he can’t get one, either, as more there’s something mebbe rather wrong that he’s not even trying real hard… In the whole context, y’know, it’s ‘what the fuck are you people even doing here, anyway?’…
Granted, not being myself terribly affectionate about Star Trek, mebbe this helps… For the record, I do self-identify–mostly–as a geek. And my geek score tests are great, despite my not so much liking the Trek, and generally flunking out on those bits.
(/Anyway, just sayin’: funny, dammit. And while I guess it doesn’t surprise me some folk got a bit bent about it, c’mon… Still funny.)
Brownian, OMsays
I’ve been saying Audrey Hepburn’s wonderful quote to myself quite a lot lately… “I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls.” To my surprise, it’s true. I went to a bar last weekend, something I never do, and since I had just come from a wonderful opera, I felt wonderful. I smiled, and felt it, and sat by myself, and looked around, and smiled, and attracted people, which is something I never do. I’m a corporate trainer, and I am popular at work, and that is something I’ve never been. It’s weird. This is what my teenage years were supposed to have been like, I think.
Good for you, badgersdaughter!
While I’ve wished I had a better time back in high school, all in all I can’t complain too much, and high school for me was quite stressful. Grade 11 alone included a year’s worth of court appearances for a crime I didn’t commit and three months spent having half of the school after me for being a ‘racist’ (I called some yank wannabe a ‘wigger’), which led to me being jumped by three or four guys at nearly every school function (each incidence of which the school beat cop dutifully detailed to the prosecution for my case as evidence of my ‘violent nature’ or some such thin blue line bullshit.) But I had a lot of fun, too. Thank the FSM I’m plucky, or maybe delusional and bipolar.
Nonetheless, I pity those whose lives peak in high school, and congratulate those for whom each year gets better. Excelsior!
Daniasays
…but it’s hard to pretend away the sting of having been marginalised because I liked science, or science fiction, or thought some of the ideas in that last math class were really interesting…
Exactly. That’s what happened to me in secondary school. And the only reason it didn’t affect me much was that, as I said, I had friends who would agree that the some of the ideas in the last math/chemistry/biology/philosophy/whatever class were really interesting. They were also more confident than me, which helps a lot. They taught me that being “cool” and being a “nerd” do not need to be mutually exclusive.
badgersdaughtersays
Dania, you and I were at the bottom of the pecking order because the pecking hurt so much and we didn’t know how to dissemble. Possibly because the pecking hurt us more than it did others. They don’t know why they targeted you. They’ll never know. It’s, like, an ape thing.
I remember the time I got stuck in the back of English class with half the varsity football team, and they discovered the thing I was most confident about at the time–my writing skills. Man, did they think I was nerd cool. But it would have been too much for their teenage egos to actually ask me out. :)
Waltonsays
SC, from the last thread:
Walton, is it possible for you in the meantime to volunteer with a nonprofit that helps these people?
Maybe. I’m thinking of volunteering at the Citizens’ Advice Bureau over the summer (I have friends who already do this).
I think by learning about them and getting to know something about the history of their countries, you might be able to appreciate that they haven’t only been oppressed by government, but by capitalism, and how these have worked together.
I don’t have any difficulty appreciating that. No one but the most deluded believes that capitalism is some sort of magic force for good. If corporations can use the coercive power of government to entrench their own position, then they will – and they do. I thought you realised that I was aware of this, since I am an outspoken critic of, inter alia, farm subsidies and protectionist measures, which are promoted by Western agri-business for their own interests and which impoverish people in the developing world. No one thinks that corporations are angels; that’s a strawman conception of libertarianism.
But I can’t change any of these things. On the other hand, detained refugees are a different matter: my own national government is depriving them of their civil liberties, and that’s something I feel morally bound to fight against using the means at my disposal. Unlike the global economy, it’s something that is, to some extent, within the scope of my influence as a citizen, as a (future) lawyer and as an activist.
But the involvement of corporations turns them toward corporations’ single end: profit. They are not interested in solutions for major problems unless these are profitable, they have no interest in workers’ lives, they are only interested in effective demand, and they have no interest in sustainability.
As I understand it (though I’m not an expert in these matters), libertarian theory does not rest on the assumption that corporations are interested in anything other than profit. Libertarians accept that the primary purpose of a corporation is to deliver a profit to its investors, and that it will do whatever is in its power to maximise that profit. But because of the effect of the “invisible hand” of the market, this does – in theory, and sometimes in practice – lead to effects which maximise efficiency and productivity. Libertarian theory, as I understand it, rests on the (relatively well-founded) assumption that many human beings are motivated primarily by self-interest, and that they will be more efficient and productive if they derive direct financial reward from producing goods and services that they can sell to people.
Of course, its major downside – as I have acknowledged – is the ever-expanding consumption of resources, and consequent environmental cost. And I agree with you that this is a very serious threat, and something which the free market cannot possibly handle. But I don’t think that’s an argument for getting rid of capitalism altogether, merely for using government regulation to conserve environmental resources.
It’s possible, of course, that this is an overly optimistic view on my part. Any government is to some extent influenced by dominant financial interests, and when those interests want to consume more resources in order to make more profit, it could be argued that government regulation will tend to serve the interests of the largest corporations rather than those of society or the environment. But I have hope that this can be tempered by a certain amount of activism, on the part of those of us who know and care, against iniquitous government policies (like Western farm subsidies and tariffs) which help the wealthy and hurt the poor. And I think there are ways in which government regulation, within a capitalist economic framework, can effectively conserve resources: look at the success of the system of transferable fishing quotas in Iceland, for example.
Waltonsays
I’m going to ignore the ongoing discussion about high school and relationships. It’s a depressing subject for me, and I vent about my problems far too much anyway (I have a self-confessed tendency towards narcissism).
Anyway, I’m actually in a really good mood right now, having had a very productive day. :-)
Brownian, OMsays
They don’t know why they targeted you. They’ll never know. It’s, like, an ape thing.
My greatest shame is how I treated the kids ‘below’ me in the pecking order when I was at my most vulnerable in middle school. What was especially hurtful, I think, was that I’d naturally befriended a lot of the nerdy or unpopular or weird kids, but the moment the ‘cool’ kids started to pick on me all over again for my association with them I would turn on them mercilessly.
Thank the FSM I grew out of that terrible insecurity by high school, and I’m not going to beat myself up for not having the courage to stand up for others at that time in my life, but there are a few people I really owe apologies to.
One of the reasons I think I became a hunter-gatherer romanticist in uni was I was fascinated by groups of people who had social behaviours that appeared specifically designed to reduce hierarchies.
I’m going to ignore the ongoing discussion about high school and relationships. It’s a depressing subject for me, and I vent about my problems far too much anyway (I have a self-confessed tendency towards narcissism).
Fair enough.
Anyway, I’m actually in a really good mood right now, having had a very productive day. :-)
Congrats! Ride that wave!
Carliesays
Hey all – check out #scienceconfessions at Twitter. Some really good stuff in there. People are tweeting their most special science moments.
(Twitternoobs – just to go twitter.com, and type #scienceconfessions in the search box – for some reason it won’t let me link there correctly)
David Marjanovićsays
what purpose did you have in mind that using natural gas would defeat?
Getting away from net production of CO2.
and let’s be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway?
<barf>
I once got a job as a busboy in a popular, ‘hip’ restaurant and made the commitment to act like a ‘player’ from the get go and hit on every single female working there as a way to rid myself of some shyness
…Frankly, I think you’d be somewhat happier if you were a little less neurotypical still. My autistic willpower is so strong I’m completely incapable of making any such commitment, and yet the result, so far, appears to be the same…
You try to overcompensate, and it doesn’t work. I can’t overcompensate, or compensate at all.
(…Though it appears to be rather fortunate that I grew up with healthy amounts of profanity. My mother tried to get it back out of me for a few years, but had to give up.)
but most people would rather not be fat than be told “Hey, a small contingent of people like fatties.”
Same again. I like being a nerd; I don’t want to be cool, because it simply wouldn’t make me happy. I will not suffer. I certainly won’t make myself suffer.
Daniasays
Dania, you and I were at the bottom of the pecking order because the pecking hurt so much and we didn’t know how to dissemble. Possibly because the pecking hurt us more than it did others.
I don’t doubt that. I wasn’t very good at hiding my emotions, but I wasn’t very good at expressing them either. I would just isolate myself from everyone else so they couldn’t see how much they were hurting me, but it never worked. Everyone could see how I was feeling. And you know what? That was the best thing that could have happened to me! The bullies noted, but so did the people who liked and helped me during those difficult times, and who eventually became (and still are) my best friends. I love them and I’m thankful for everything they did for me. They were and are wonderful persons.
Anyway, I’m actually in a really good mood right now, having had a very productive day. :-)
Nice to hear that. :)
PZ Myerssays
I wasn’t in the pecking order. I was so weird and negligible that they threw me out of the hierarchy. The good thing was that I didn’t get bullied much at all, but the bad thing is that I still was never invited to the cool kids’ parties or the cool kids’ lunch table, even.
The worst thing that happened to me is that for several years, I was pursued after school by an older girls gang — they would follow me home and fawn over me like I was a little pet. It was a scarring experience, because they were doing it for a joke, and were completely insincere about the flattery. I still cringe a little bit when a woman says anything nice about me; I feel like I must be getting set up for a laugh.
Nerds are always so safe and unthreatening, you know.
I don’t quite understand why libertarians seem to approve of or even accept the existence of corporations. A government creation that inherently lets people dodge responsibility for what they do is tolerable? Why??
I was bullied in high school for being small, introverted, non-athletic and intelligent. Several years ago I was visiting my parents in the town I grew up in. I ran into a guy who’d bullied me in high school. He literally put his arm around me and said “Do you remember all the great times we had together?” He couldn’t remember that he’d bullied me. He was convinced we’d been bestest buddies in school.
Memory is a strange thing sometimes.
Carliesays
I would guess that most of us congregating here had bad experiences in school for being nerds and uncool. I’ve noticed the same kind of unsettling effect ‘Tis just mentioned, but on Facebook – getting friend requests from people who not just weren’t my friends, but who actively went out of their way to mentally torture and belittle me. Um, no. There’s understanding that when we’re young our brains are unformed and prone to groupthink, and then there’s “but I still don’t need you in my life anyway, thanks”.
Nothing’s so cruel as a kid trying desperately to maintain their own position in the social hierarchy. (Doesn’t “kyriarchy” kind of cover that?)
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Nerds are always so safe and unthreatening, you know.
No, not really. Nerds, in my experience, can also be very vicious and hateful. Not that I’ve bullied by any, but it’s my observation.
I was very fortunate not to have encounter much bullying during high school. Generally, I was part of the “popular” crowd. Elementary School was different. I was bullied, not so much for being a good student, but for being the only Asian student in my class.
Brownian, OMsays
…Frankly, I think you’d be somewhat happier if you were a little less neurotypical still. My autistic willpower is so strong I’m completely incapable of making any such commitment, and yet the result, so far, appears to be the same…
You try to overcompensate, and it doesn’t work. I can’t overcompensate, or compensate at all.
Not at all, David. In my case overcompensating did work. The thing is that I don’t think I could be happy if I were any less gregarious, and that means I need, more than anything else, to have a relatively full complement of tools in my social toolbox. Being able to talk to girls who I was attracted to (irrespective of whether or not they were attracted to me) was a necessary tool. I’ve even learned to feign appreciation of sports solely so I can interact with people for whom sports are important. (It’s kinda like the guy who carries 20 pens as a conversation-starter in case they happen across someone who needs one, though less er, desperate-sounding in my mind.)
The cost of this is that I can be a little overly sensitive about perceptions of me. For instance, the threat of not being liked is still very real for me, and although I’ve developed enough discrimination to understand that some people’s like or dislike matters more than others’, but still.)
Yeah, I’m still a little bitter about being someone who loves science in a world where the majority do not, but at the heart of it I’m pretty pleased with who I am, even if it means I’ve subtly altered who I am to be more accessible to my favourite subject matter: other humans.
WowbaggerOMsays
PZ wrote:
I wasn’t in the pecking order. I was so weird and negligible that they threw me out of the hierarchy. The good thing was that I didn’t get bullied much at all, but the bad thing is that I still was never invited to the cool kids’ parties or the cool kids’ lunch table, even.
Me too – I was mostly a non-entity, which was good in some ways and bad in others; sure, I didn’t get bullied, but nor was I ever invited to any of the typical teenage gatherings and missed out on that whole aspect of the high school experience.
Interestingly enough, I have a high school reunion later this year. I’ve decided to go, more as a ‘confront your demons’ kind of experience than anything else.
Brownian, OMsays
He was convinced we’d been bestest buddies in school.
Memory is a strange thing sometimes.
A few years back I ran into a girl I’d dated in high school. We’d developed a mutual attraction that culminated in us dating for exactly two weeks over the Christmas holidays, most of which she was away with her family for. When she dumped me, it was because we ran in different circles, she being one of the ‘cool’ kids. Months later we got back together for one week, and she dumped me again. The next year we didn’t date at all, though I did escort her to our Grade 12 graduation.
So, a few years ago I ran into her, and she introduced me to her friend as the guy she dated “all through high school.” I must not have been in the most forgiving mood that day as I, as kindly as I could, reminded her that we’d dated for a total of three weeks and she broke my heart twice so it was a little unfair for her to think of me like that. (It might have been different if we’d had sex, but alas!)
(So, two girls broke my heart twice each. I must have a learning disability where relationships are concerned.)
Sometimes I wish I had that kind of memory: fleeting and rose-coloured as opposed to tenacious and grudging.
CJOsays
Jeez. What is this, a pity party? Damn nerds, showing feelings n’ shit.
I keed, I keed.
I can second two points: one, I, too, recall to my shame that I joined in with the teasing and bullying of the untouchables the exact second I took the very tiniest step up the middle school caste system. I’ve been able to forgive myself on the basis that nobody is exactly looking out for anybody but number 1 at that age, and remembering the sheer terror that was engendered by the idea of accidentally being “found out” as an unreconstructed nerd or a compassionate human being by the “cool kids” who seemed to be tolerating me for once. By high school I had discovered an identity and realized the “cool kids” actually sucked, and that I and my friends were going to go on and have interesting, fulfilled adult lives, and those losers had just peaked.
Also, to ‘Tis’s point, it is positively eerie the extent to which losers who peaked in high school can delude themselves into thinking they were perceived as anything other than obnoxious, arrogant assholes by 90 percent of their peers.
Paul W.says
I think I finally figured out what PZ was trying to tell us with that video, about what’s wrong with the Endless Thread.
We need episode numbers.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
We need episode numbers.
SSVVEENN!!
I wasn’t bothered much in Jr. High or High School. A couple of big bullies tried picking on me in Jr. High, but after I fought back, it appeared the word got out. In High School, I was considered a brain, but since I lived a long ways from the High School, I had to make sure to catch the bus home, so I wasn’t around after school unless it was a band activity. By then, a certain Redhead was catching my eye too.
Izzysays
Hey folks! I’m pretty excited about this. Just thought I’d let you know: Michael Hawkins blog is back up!!
I’m sure someone might have beat me to this, but it’s the intention that counts most sometimes, right? XD
geoffmoviessays
A little heart breaking to see Phil Hartman, but this sketch was a standout in an otherwise disappointing season. Thanks for posting it, it’s great to see again. So true too!
I was in college when this aired. I may not have had a life, but I had more hair.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
SSVVEENN!!
ßwinn?
Sven DiMilosays
Episode subThread numbers are easy. This would be number…uh…30!
I’ll number ’em in the next update.
Brownian, OMsays
SSVVEENN!!
Don’t be silly, NoR. It’s clearly not neverending thread number ssvveenn, and probably not even eeggiihht or nneeiinn. (If I had to guess, I’d say this thread is probably somewhere in the ttnnees, and maybe even in the tteewwnniittees).
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Why am I totally unsurprised to learn many of us were unpopular or bullied?
I don’t know about you all, but looking back on how I felt in high school, I couldn’t have imagined how much better being an adult would be. Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?
Now, if I could just hold it here. . . maybe more time in the regeneration chamber would help. . .
WowbaggerOMsays
I blame my unhappy high school experience on the lack of access to alternative popular culture in my pissant country town with nothing but mainstream radio, film, television and books – basically, we weren’t given too many options for how we formed social groups.
While I hung out with the bookish RPG nerds (and reading the most wretched exponents of the fantasy genre) I wasn’t really one of them; I should have been hanging with other wannbe hipsters, reading cool stuff like Heller and Vonnegut and Tom Robbins and learning to play guitar.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
*sends Brownian a tankard of e-grog :)*
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?
Well, since my 20’s just started, I wouldn’t know.
'Tis Himself, OMsays
‘Tis, I still don’t know what to do with that hot oil.
Ignore it. I was looking at two recipes and got part of the wrong recipe in the recipe I posted.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Well, since my 20’s just started, I wouldn’t know.
Always with the smart answer, Pikachu. Well guess what – it ain’t gonna work. I’m not going to spank you.
'Tis Himself, OMsays
I’m not going to spank you.
Where is Patricia when you need her?
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
‘Tis – been wondering where she is and how she’s doing. Hope she drops in. Keep a note, though, in case she does – Gyeong is not under any circumstances to be spanked. He doesn’t deserve it.
Brownian, OMsays
Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?
Yes and no. On the plus side, I’ve had a lot more fun over the last five years (I’m 34 now) than I ever did other than a few select time periods from my mid-teens.
On the minus side, I’m getting creakier, doughier, and hairier, and the playboy lifestyle of jetting off to the Côte d’Azur for a month of interviews and photoshoots with my supermodel/research director at CERN wife seems an increasingly far-fetched dream.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Always with the smart answer, Pikachu. Well guess what – it ain’t gonna work. I’m not going to spank you.
Why not? I’ve been naughty (by driving 70 on a 60 road while being sleep deprived.)
'Tis Himself, OMsays
I’ve been wondering the same thing, Josh. I do worry about some of the people, like Geologist Josh and Patricia, who’ve disappeared.
Any spanking of Gyeong will be left in your capable hands.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
‘Tis – didn’t Patricia’s husband die recently? Didn’t she pop in to let us know? I hope I’m not confusing her with someone else. It would be awfully nice for her to show up though; I note her absence and hope she’s OK.
I think I must not have been much of a regular when Geologist Josh was around, since I don’t remember him.
And I told you already – Pikachu will not be spanked.
WowbaggerOMsays
Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?
Yes and no. I’m a lot more comfortable with who I am now I’m in my 30s, but that’s come as a result of some harsh realisations about how well (or, more accurately, poorly) I relate to people.
My belief is that being in my mid-30s while still having some of the attitude of a lackadaisical 23-year-old (i.e. posessing little-to-no interest in advancing in my career, or having kids or renovating and instead being obsessed with the intricacies of popular culture) at that age is considered a bad thing by most of my contemporaries.
As a result I really only venture into meatspace if where I’m going either doesn’t involve having to interact with people or it is interaction around a purpose, i.e. work or theatre or a film or a gig; in short, I can’t do things like hang out in a bar or at a party. I almost always get way too anxious and shut down completely.
Hence why I spend so much of my damn time here…
Menyambalsays
Speaking of names: President Barack Obama (damn, I love to type that) has a first name that could scare the Catholics.
“Barack” supposedly is either Swahili for “lightning” or Hebrew for “blessing from heaven”. I am willing to split the difference, or rather, to say both, since lightning comes from heaven.
My point is that the Hannibal who took elephants over the Alps to attack Rome had the family name of Barca, which supposedly was Carthaginian for “lightning”. His dad was Hamilcar and his brother was Hasdrubal, really rocking the name business.
So Obama has the same name as a fellow who tried to destroy Rome. That should scare the pope, and could make a lot of Baptist fundamentalists support Barack for a change.
'Tis Himself, OMsays
I preferred being in my 30s than my 20s. I was out of school, particularly grad school, I was gainfully employed doing something I enjoyed doing, and I got laid a great deal more often.
Brownian, OMsays
Pikachu will not be spanked.
You sound like my 7th Grade Catholic school science teacher.
I hate to break it to you, but I’ve spanked my pikachu twice already tod–oh, I see what you were referring to.
My apologies, everyone.
Rogersays
Hey, at least you didn’t marry, father a buncha kids then come out of the closet 10 to 15 years later. Several of my friends did that, and it’s a tailor-made mess. Most people have better sense these days, but it still happens.
Apparently, that’s the modus operandi here in South Carolina. If I had a dollar for every guy I’ve seen online and in bars who was married and came out in their late 30s…well, I’d probably have a lot of dollars.
Qwertysays
Josh, just post something under the nom de plume of “Kenny” and Patricia will show up with a scathing post. I posted as “Kenny P” and she raked me over the coals. How was I to know that there was an infamous troll know as “Kenny” who was far worse then the more recent Dendy.
I don’t think I was smart enough to be a nerd, but I definitely wasn’t part of the “cool crowd” in school. I recently went to my high school’s 40th reunion. Some of the “cool crowd” had definitely lost it.
Brownian, OMsays
Menyambal, baraca means “blessings” in Swahili, but given that the language contains a huge number of Arabic loanwords it’s likely related to the Semitic words as well.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Calling the Pharyngulite Horde! Help! We have an asshole newbie on another thread arguing that women shouldn’t have “frivolous” abortions just because it’s “inconvenient.” That’s “denying a person a life.”
Thirties for me are definitely better than twenties and teens, if a lot more stressful in different ways. I’m much, much, MUCH more comfortable with myself, with who I am, and my place in the world (thanks, therapy!). Then again, the worries associated with needing money to support other people can be painful. But in general, yeah. I’ve always looked forward to getting older, and so far I like it a lot. But then again, get back to me in a few years when I hit 40…
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
I posted as “Kenny P” and she raked me over the coals. How was I to know that there was an infamous troll know as “Kenny” who was far worse then the more recent Dendy
Was this the thread?
Patricia says:
‘Kenny P’ – *raises eyebrow* – is it back, or is this a new one?
Owlmirror says:
“Kenny P” ≠ “Kenny/Planet Killer”
You can tell from the absence of gabbling limpetness.
MrFiresays
Elementary School was different. I was bullied, not so much for being a good student, but for being the only Asian student in my class.
Yep. Different country, different time, same shitty-assed bullies got us both.
I hate to break it to you, but I’ve spanked my pikachu twice already tod–oh, I see what you were referring to.
At the age of 34, this should a level of stamina to be proud of, mate.
MrFiresays
At the age of 34, this should be a level of stamina to be proud of, mate.
Mistake was due to typing with one hand during an attempt to out-do Brownian, see.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Mr. Fire, this is the endless thread, not the endless fap.
windysays
and let’s be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway?
yes, let’s be honest: why the hell not, if the occasion arises
Yep. Different country, different time, same shitty-assed bullies got us both.
sniff sniff. Someone else knows what it feels like. Er. . .I thought you were USAian, MrFire?
And I told you already – Pikachu will not be spanked.
Fine then, there are other people who appriciate BDSM. Where’s Bill?
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Patricia, the Princess of Pullets, has been MIA for a few days. Her posting has been erratic since her husband died. She and Janine do e-mail. Geology Josh I worry about. The last time he was gone this long, he complained about long cold hikes when he returned. Lets hope he’s at least in the western hemisphere, rather than mid Asia.
Jadehawk, OMsays
I’m fucking glad I didn’t go to y’all’s high-schools. mine consisted almost entirely of
1)people who majored* in Ancient Green and Latin
2)People who majored in music
3)People who majored in math and physics
being teased for being a nerd wasn’t gonna happen, since we were all nerds and geeks. probably happened for other reasons (I was too busy dealing with my own problems to notice), but not for having brains.
—–
*after 10th grade you pick 2 subjects that will be your main focus for the rest of high-school; these are probably also the subjects they ended up studying in college, but I wouldn’t know that.
'Tis Himself, OMsays
Lets hope he’s at least in the western hemisphere, rather than mid Asia.
That’s my worry about our favorite airborne ranger geologist.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Fine then, there are other people who appriciate BDSM.
If you truly appreciated it, Pikachu, you would find my denying you a spankin’ unbearably hawt.
MAJeff, OMsays
and let’s be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway?
Damn, if it were still possible, I’d do it in a second. Damn, those were some fun times!
MrFiresays
Er. . .I thought you were USAian, MrFire?
Nope. Born and raised in the UK. But I now live in US, and the transformation is almost complete. Like The Fly. When my brother calls though, the Nawf Laandan accent comes shining through and confounds my wife no end.
On the bullying front: mostly psychological. As in, calling me names (ever hear Ching Chong Chinaman Tried To Milk A Cow?), group exclusions, stealing my shit or damaging it. Teacher (Catholic School, natch) told me to stop exaggerating. Good times. I also got called ‘Paki’ a lot, despite not looking remotely like a person from the Indian subcontinent.
Mr. Fire, this is the endless thread, not the endless fap.
Who said anything about my faps being endless? 35 seconds on a good day, and if the wind is just right. Or 15 for a sweetcheeks like you.
Jadehawk, OMsays
ancient green? fucking hell. i meant ancient greek
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
If you truly appreciated it, Pikachu, you would find my denying you a spankin’ unbearably hawt.
(debating on whether I should sex-up this thread furthr.)
'Tis Himself, OMsays
debating on whether I should sex-up this thread furthr
Do what you want. I’m going to bed…with a warm, cuddly partner.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
35 seconds on a good day, and if the wind is just right. Or 15 for a sweetcheeks like you.
HA! Touche (how the fuck do you make diacriticals here?).
When my brother calls though, the Nawf Laandan accent comes shining through and confounds my wife no end.
OK. I admit my prejudice. I hate parochial, regional accents. Despise them. I don’t mean the broad understanding of an accent from another country, I mean the very specific, local, idiosyncratic pronunciations. I worked really hard to get rid of mine (upstate New York, US – it’s awful). The very. . .”parochialness” of them, like they’re from one small neighborhood or county, drives me nuts. Yes, linguists, I know. It’s small-minded of me, and it’s arbitrary. I know.
What is it with certain Brit accents where people can’t seem to pronounce the “l” sound? Example: “We had a fire, and I ran from the bewwwding (building).”
Or, “Regionowww (regional) differences led to fighting amongst. . .”
Is there a name for that particular pronunciation?
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Do what you want. I’m going to bed…with a warm, cuddly partner.
The manufacturer recommends you wash your Snuggie(TM) at least once a week.
WowbaggerOMsays
Jadehawk wrote:
ancient green? fucking hell. i meant ancient greek
Someone’s got to make up for the RevBDC when he’s not here.
Another of the problems of living in rural isolation was that there weren’t many options of what to study at school – it was really down to straight maths/science, accounting & economics, shop classes and agricultural stuff.
I don’t even think there was senior history and geography – not that I would have done them anyway, since it would have only been modern history and Australia is a really dull place in terms of modern history.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Do what you want. I’m going to bed…with a warm, cuddly partner.
Night to you Tis and your warm cuddly partner.
On the bullying front: mostly psychological. As in, calling me names (ever hear Ching Chong Chinaman Tried To Milk A Cow?), group exclusions, stealing my shit or damaging it. Teacher (Catholic School, natch) told me to stop exaggerating. Good times. I also got called ‘Paki’ a lot, despite not looking remotely like a person from the Indian subcontinent.
I got “Ching Chong Moka Hoy” and kids trying make slanted eyes at me. In high school, I got called a chink*, once and a jap once. Chink would be sorta correct since I’m part Han Chinese (Teochew) but for some reason they were totally ignorant of the existence of the Korean peninsula, Mongolia, Central Asia, and Southeast Asia.
*apparently, also, acknowledging the existance of the PRC and nomadic Mongolians makes me a commie…
cicelysays
Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?
Hayell yes! Though I feel that no-one should have to wait until their 30s to (finally) get to grips with their extreme introversion and be able to, you know, talk to people, or be comfortable in their presence within 10′, or in groups of more than about 4, or strangers of any stripe. My early to mid twenties were my nearly-suicidal years, which I wouldn’t have back at any price, and as for my teens… See, high school girls didn’t read anything but Harlequin Romances back in the ’70s. Not in small-town Oklahoma, anyway. Scifi, astronomy, and archaeology were right out. Only four girls in my graduating class took anything more sciency than General Science, and it’s not like we were a cohesive unit. What was this “peer group” thing of which I kept hearing rumors?
Aaaaand, I think that’s about enough of that.
cicelysays
The manufacturer recommends you wash your Snuggie(TM) at least once a week.
Though I’ve heard rumors that SnuggiesTM are terribly prone to disintegrate in the dryer, so you might want to line-dry, and spare yourself the possible pain of future cold, lonely nights. ;)
WowbaggerOMsays
cicely wrote:
Though I feel that no-one should have to wait until their 30s to (finally) get to grips with their extreme introversion and be able to, you know, talk to people, or be comfortable in their presence within 10′, or in groups of more than about 4, or strangers of any stripe.
As I noted upthread, it’s actually the opposite for me; I’ve discovered I’m far less capable of coping with groups of people and am close to flat-out refusing to do anything in meatspace if it’s likely to involve even moderate periods where I’m be forced to try and ‘mingle’.
The GAC in a couple of weeks will actually be somewhat of a challenge; it’s only because I’ve convinced myself the people there must have about a few key things in common (i.e. they are atheists and are interested in listening to people talk about atheism and hang out with other atheists of a similar mindset) with me that I’m not horrifically anxious about going.
I just hope I don’t wig out and decide to try and put on a brash fake persona, i.e. become someone who wanders around hitting on women with lines like, ‘hey baby – want to see my Order of the Molly?’
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
want to see my Order of the Molly?
Yes.
Rey Foxsays
This thread is giving me some hope for the future, being close to taking the plunge into thirtyhood. I’ve started grad school, and I have something of a peer group now for the first time since undergrad. I haven’t gone out all that often, but I’ll be doing it more. The only concern I have is that most of the dating population around here are going to be nearly ten years younger than me.
(This is why ephebophilia makes no sense to me. I didn’t even like teenagers when I was one.)
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
become someone who wanders around hitting on women with lines like, ‘hey baby – want to see my Order of the Molly?’
Watch out. They may want to see it. ;)
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
want to see my Order of the Molly?
Yes.
Of course, you would Josh. ;)
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Of course, you would Josh. ;)
Watch it, Pika-slut. Or I’ll not spank you for a whole year:)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Just finished ripping apart Frodo and Merry with a bunch of graduate students. We were like hyenas. I’m feeling young and spunky.
windysays
Brownian responding to me & Dania:
there’s a world of difference between spending time online because you enjoy the company of the people you find there and like the medium of communication or the topics being discussed and feeling you have no choice but to interact online because you aren’t considered attractive or are socially awkward in meatspace.
I’m being a little disingenuous here because the reality is that I am an incredibly social individual for whom there are only a few situations in which I would feel uncomfortable
hmm, what made you think we weren’t speaking from experience?
Jadehawk, OMsays
As I noted upthread, it’s actually the opposite for me; I’ve discovered I’m far less capable of coping with groups of people and am close to flat-out refusing to do anything in meatspace if it’s likely to involve even moderate periods where I’m be forced to try and ‘mingle’.
seconded. I’m finally coming to terms with the fact that I’m pretty much a loner. Meatspace socialising is exhausting and bothersome for the most part*, and I’ve finally stopped trying to be more social because it’s expected of me. I don’t want to, and the world can go fuck itself if it doesn’t like that.
——-
*pretty much the only two exceptions are doing something interesting which merely happens to involve a bunch of people, and meatspace meetings with online friends.
Aquariasays
Perhaps if we could just encourage every woman in the world to actually talk to us before writing us off, Akira and I could take solace in that fact.
You know, it works both ways.
After high school, I remember learning from various people that guys I’d been interested in had been too shy to ask me out. I had the BMOC star quarterback calling my mother and begging for clues about getting me to notice him–but he somehow couldn’t speak to me in person–took him months to get the nerve to say hello, and longer than that to advance to making idle remarks as I passed him in halls, I guess to get me to pay attention to him. Maybe if he’d said something like, “what do you think of Carter’s chances of winning?” I might have both stopped to talk rather than giving him a blow-off remark, or remembered what he’d said to me all those times.
I don’t think he was a bad guy or an idiot, but I do think he was an emotional retard, at least in the sense of how to approach women. I wasn’t one of those women who lost sleep over getting a man, and I’d rather poke out my eyes with sticks than throw myself at one. If they wanted, they’d tell me, then I’d decide if I’d return it or not (in East Texas, usually not).
The curse of being that way is how many men are stupid enough to see it as a challenge. They think they’ll be different, that they will be irresistible to me and have me panting for them, begging for their attention.
Foolish men. As if I’d cede that pleasure to them.
Sven DiMilosays
It’s almost Threadmas Eve!!!!!
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Oh, Sven, do hang our stockings from the portcullis with care?
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Watch it, Pika-slut. Or I’ll not spank you for a whole year:)
Me? Slut? What ever do you mean Josh dear?
To amend our discussion of high school, I got through by being a “jock”. Not to say that there wasn’t psychological torment. Along with my homosexual denialism, I had a lot of pressure from evangelical Christians to convert. (I wonder what they would say after seeing that they missionary attempts only drove me to agnosticism.)
Sven DiMilosays
I’m giving everybody comments this year.
WowbaggerOMsays
jadehawk wrote:
…and meatspace meetings with online friends.
Well, in terms of blogs/fora/etc. this is the only place I’m online with any regularity – so the GAC will be my first attempt to see if that works for me. But someone’s recently set up a local online atheism group so I’ll be checking them out (in person) when I’m not as crazy-busy as I am now.
However, I’ve had somewhat bad experiences in that people with whom I’ve gotten on well online (who I’ve met in person but communicated with mostly via email or – back in the day – snail mail) have had interesting (read: unpleasant) reactions to me after spending time with me in person* – which is what has led me to my current state of social phobia.
An example: one ex-friend of this ilk, when asked by a mutual friend whether or not she missed having me in her life, responded with ‘I miss his emails’. While hearing this made me more than a little miserable as a person it did kind of make me feel good as a writer.
Still, I’ve had enough conversations with the likes of Kel and Rorschach to know that, worst case scenario, I’ll have a few people to talk to.
Aquaria wrote:
I don’t think he was a bad guy or an idiot, but I do think he was an emotional retard, at least in the sense of how to approach women.
Some of us still have that problem. Feel free to provide hints to aid us in overcoming it…
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Me? Slut? What ever do you mean Josh dear?
Just good-natured, affectionate teasing, Pikachu.
To amend our discussion of high school, I got through by being a “jock”. Not to say that there wasn’t psychological torment. Along with my homosexual denialism, I had a lot of pressure from evangelical Christians to convert.
I was the academic, bookish (then later, in HS) flamboyant gay kid. Being the physical and metaphorical brunt of the jokes was not easy, to say the least. Developing a limited reputation in HS as being funny and entertaining did ameliorate it to some degree, but not enough.
Looking back on the kids I went to school with, many of the jocks were obviously gay (I say, with hindsight). And they felt just as trapped by homophobia and social roles as I did. While there’s no excuse for kids bullying one another, time and distance allows me to see their predicament with sympathy that I couldn’t have when I was in high school.
In the end, isn’t it just grand that we all grew up?
Oh, and apropos of nothing – I just got good news that my piano teacher is not, in fact, dead, but back home and out of the hospital. Wee bit of congestive heart failure, eradicated by diuretics (take that, you anti-pharma fucks).
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Awww snap! Allied with idiots as they are, how shall we ever defeat Frodo and Merry?
Larry the Cable Guy liked What Darwin Got Wrong too!
Git ‘er done!
Aquariasays
Wowbagger:
I can’t believe you, of all people are inept on the dating scene.
MrFiresays
In high school, I got called a chink
In secondary school (Britspeak for Middle + Jr.High + High) I got no taunting whatsoever, and those were the best years of my youth. Moreover, I didn’t even have to put anyone else down in the process. Primary (~ elementary) was where all the shit went down. Sadly, I offloaded some of that onto other kids even lower down than I was. I recall that Brownian mentioned doing something similar. Which leads me to…
Anybody remember the link to Brownian’s set of flickr pictures? I once compared the last in that series to George Michael, but the one where he’s wearing a cowboy hat looks like Freddy Rodriguez.
Is there a name for that particular pronunciation?
I believe it is called L-vocalization. A feature of the Estuary English dialect, amongst others.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
While we are collectively (or with fierce independence) bemoaning our high-school experiences, I too was the brunt of ridicule, on account of my homosexuality. Although I wasn’t actually gay, I developed a sense of gay pride that I maintain to this day.
WowbaggerOMsays
Aquaria wrote:
I can’t believe you, of all people are inept on the dating scene.
I think the confidence and attitude I exhibit here (which is what I’m assuming led you to hold the opinion you expressed) is something that – sadly – I appear unable to carry off in ‘real life’ for assorted reasons.
My main problem is meeting people who find me interesting and vice versa. It just doesn’t seem to happen.
frankosaurussays
walton@110
And I think there are ways in which government regulation, within a capitalist economic framework, can effectively conserve resources: look at the success of the system of transferable fishing quotas in Iceland, for example.
i don’t think the main criticism of capitalism is stripping society of resources. That will happen under any economy. What’s more worrisome is the “greed is good” instrumentalism that it engenders. It operates on the assumption that people are self-interested, a notion generally accepted through the ages but held to be a flaw. Yet libertarians, good instrumentalists that they are, are quick to give short shrift to what is or what was, but rather what can be brought about, and always along the lines of its own reductive science of human nature. So yeah, they will make concessions about government control when it comes to extinction of species, but they won’t hold the same regard for extinctions of traditions
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Antiochus, #195:
on account of my homosexuality. Although I wasn’t actually gay, I developed a sense of gay pride that I maintain to this day.
One of these things is not like the other. Explain, please?
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Josh:
Foothills of the Appalachians, inordinate fondness for wildflowers, good skin.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Antiochus:
Cryptic, and unclear.
Jadehawk, OMsays
i think what AE is trying to say is that he was “gay”, not actually gay. people just decided that he had to be a homosexual because of other things that are thought “gay” but have fuck-all to do with sexual orientation.
IOW, he got stereotyped as a homosexual without being one
Antiochus Epiphanessays
I’m not gay, but many people thought I was.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
IOW, he got stereotyped as a homosexual without being one
Ah, maybe. It’s just not clear to me. Then again, sometimes I’m really dense:)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Jadehawk…that’s the scoop. My point isn’t that I regret this, but that it gave me a sense of solidarity with others who were also considered unacceptable…which I like.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
I’m not gay, but many people thought I was.
Well, see how people are? They go and give you compliments you don’t deserve! (I’m only joking – I know how it is to be treated as “gay” in high school whether you are or not).
Owlmirrorsays
OH NO! Owlmirror has been RECRUITED!!
I cannot confirm or deny any rumors or speculations.
No further comment.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
I found the lack of acceptance to be liberating. Learning not to give a fuck about what the troglodytes think while you are still young is a gift.
Aquariasays
Other than when I went to a new school my senior year, I had a lot of fun in high school, with a great gang of nerdy/arty friends. I also had a foot in the popular kid camp, thanks to having dated a very popular guy my sophomore year. Inviting me to hang out became a habit for the popular kids, and I went along when it suited me.
I preferred my arty friends. Crazy, fun people, every single one of them.
Aquariasays
Wowbagger:
Then find a way to translate the person you are here into meatspace. Your confidence and your assertiveness are the very things most women want to see in a man. If you don’t have it, they know.
I’ll give you one secret of straight women: For a good number of them, the ideal isn’t Daddy or some movie star. It’s Darcy from Pride & Prejudice. There’s a reason for it. Think about it. Really think about it.
Pygmy Lorissays
Wow, I just finished reading the accumulated posts on the Thread since last night. Apparently it’s confessions day on the Thread.
Like many others here, high school was not a good time for me. I was, how do you say it, physically underdeveloped which, when combined with a marked degree of nerdiness and social ineptitude, makes you the butt of everyone’s humor.
The good news is that by the end of junior year I realized that if I pretended I didn’t care about how other people treated (or what they thought of me) me a few of the other social outcasts would actually respect me. The hardest part of acting like these things were unimportant was learning not to cry in front of people. Sometimes a few repressed tears still escape, but I’m much better now.
FossilFishysays
I was picked on as a supposed homosexual throughout high school. Their evidence was that I played flute in the band. My best friend was the only other male flute player in our high school and he was left alone. He’s asian and was thought to know martial arts. I have no idea if this was true, he wouldn’t confirm or deny it. No one had any more evidence for his martial abilities than they had for my sexuality.
I found out years later that he was indeed gay.
Such things make me wonder if irony is the missing variable needed for a unified field theory.
Phorce, God of Equinesays
It’s Darcy from Pride & Prejudice. There’s a reason for it. Think about it. Really think about it.
independently wealthy and good looking?
Aquariasays
Wow. I used to laugh at people who thought high school was awesome. I knew it wasn’t all that great.
Now I feel like one of them, because I don’t remember it as all that bad. Not in comparison to jr. high. That was the worst, probably because the worst group of mean girls I encountered in school were from that era.
No one is meaner than a 13 year old mean girl.
Aquariasays
#212
What a surprise. Someone who doesn’t get it.
That’s why I said to think about it. The reasons are more complex than that.
Cath the Canberra Cooksays
Having recently met Wowbagger, I can vouch that he’s perfectly acceptable and quite unscary in appearance. Unlike that dude who was wearing the “I’m an arsehole and quite possibly a psychopath, avoid me!” Tshirt. (Actual wording approx. “When I want your opinion I’ll remove the duct tape.”)
Unrelated gratuitous non-specific advice to all het boy nerds on talking to teh gurlz: we are in fact also human beings, and not aliens. You can work out quite a lot of very good guidelines if you make your mirror neurons do some work.
For instance, talking about yourself and your interests at great length, and never asking about her and her interests, is Not A Good Idea. You can tell, because you don’t like it when someone does that to you, right? (An exception may be granted when people are actually asking you about yourself, but even then reciprocating is usually a good idea.)
It’s really amazing the number of boys who don’t get this sort of thing. And even grown men, too. Presumably they are trying not to connect, but to impress. And so failing badly at humanity 101.[Disclaimer: it might work on the non-nerd girls. Especially empty-headed ones with poor self-esteem. I wouldn’t know.]
(* Wonders if this seems too preachy. Oh well. That’s not intended. Or perhaps it’s too much like advice from your Mum. meh.)
Phorce, God of Equinesays
214 –
Yeah, that’s a guess. But I’ve never heard of women liking Darcy, so that’s news to me. Can you give a hint? This isn’t going to be one of those “women love to be dominated” arguments, is it?
WowbaggerOMsays
Having recently met Wowbagger, I can vouch that he’s perfectly acceptable and quite unscary in appearance.
You did? This is news to me! Now I’m really confused.
FossilFishysays
Aquaria: Think about what exactly? If you’re really trying to give good advice then do so by explaining what you mean. What you see as desirable traits in a fictitious character can be, and probably is, different from what anyone else would see.
Also, to be so vague and then to get sarcastic when someone expresses the obvious stereotype is childish.
Mind you, this whole thing is probably moot except for entertainment purposes; I can’t think of anything more subjective than sexual attraction.
Kel, OMsays
(Actual wording approx. “When I want your opinion I’ll remove the duct tape.”)
That shirt was quite hilarious.
John Moralessays
I think the way Frankosaurus is trying to fit in is kinda cute. Not just a troll.
You don’t know me if you think I would allow a man to dominate me.
Elizabeth Bennett wasn’t dominated, anyway. You don’t understand the book at all, or haven’t read it, if you can say such a thing.
Rorschachsays
Cringeworthy Shatner “music” !!!!
The skit was half-funny, in reality I think he wouldn’t have much joy if that’s what he really thought of his fanbase lol.
As to high school, I guess I was with the cool kids, if cool means drinking/smoking/philosophy and literature reading/politically active, but we were so cool that we were only boys in that club, because no girls thought we would consider them worthy of our attention !! Imagine that( this was told to me years later, after the fact), kindof ironic in a bad way.
Brownian sez:
I still have my good days and my bad days, and I honestly cannot understand what the hell I’m supposed to do with the 30 or 40 years I’ve got left
Yeah, my sentiment exactly, what on earth am I meant to be doing from here on in when you’ve driven the car against the wall in terms of career/family/what-parents-wanted-me-to-become, not that I much care about these things.I guess there is books, and the Cricket, and just trying to be a decent person.Oh, and Cricket.
For a good number of them, the ideal isn’t Daddy or some movie star. It’s Darcy from Pride & Prejudice
Maybe I should have watched that sometime to know who you are talking about !
Amusing anecdote :
At work today, female doctor collegue,quite young and naive otherwise, told me how she spoke to one of our collegues the other day, an orthodox jew, and how she felt after a short chat about his marriage and views on family values, that he was a “moral neanderthal”, and she felt sorry for his wife. I giggled all afternoon.
John Moralessays
Kel, yeah, I saw that story.
I like the tenor of the comments on the ABC site, too.
Aquariasays
Now for 216–
Look, an entire segment of the book industry is built around re-inventing Darcy. It’s called the romance genre, and it’s the biggest-selling fiction market, like it or not. The Regency is an enduring favorite as a subgenre within that market. If you look at these books, it’s obvious they’re (very badly) copying the Darcy archetype. He sells. I actually know some of thee writers, and, over and over, they outright admit they’re writing Darcy. He sells, even when put in a Scotsman’s kilt, or in the guise of vampire.
I think it was Thersites over at Whiskey Fire/Ashes that discussed how the consistent favorite literary hero as chosen by women was Darcy. I’ll have to look for the article–it was many years ago.
Does every woman prefer a Darcy archetype? No, of course not. But a hell of a lot of women do.
When we were discussing the article at Theri’s site, the women agreed to a tee that what they liked about Darcy was that he was an intelligent, cultured, loyal and decent man, whose ultimate quality was the ability to accept valid criticism about himself, and then do what it takes to change himself for the better. That he does it to deserve the woman he loves is the icing on the cake. In romance parlance, it’s called taming the alpha male
There’s more, but I won’t go on about it. I’ll just conclude by saying Darcy is an extremely complicated character, as all archetypal characters are, and what I wrote above touches on the issue only briefly. That’s why I recommended thinking about the character and why he appeals to so many women. The answer isn’t simple, because people are never simple.
Aquariasays
Oh, and the other thing that makes Darcy so appealing to women that he didn’t want the the hyper-feminine, submissive type of woman. He wanted a strong, intelligent, independent-minded woman.
Feynmaniacsays
Since The Thread hasn’t had some good delugionist nonsense in a while:
[In answer to a question as to why there are no water stains in cave walls if there was a global flood]
It’s likely the sea stains were erased just after the Tower of Babel. Sea stains are a form of language and it would have been confounded like everything else.
how are they considered language? well they convey meaning and anything (that is everything) conveys meaning in the universe. So it really does not matter if you do the research or not, if sea stains aren’t found it’s due to CONFOUNDATION not because they were never there.
NovaCsays
@AE #207
:) I never gave a rodent’s posterior about what my contemporaries thought of me. Never mattered to me and the only person I had any control over was myself! I’m pleased to report I’m still happy and not plagued with angst to this day (I’m 38 and still “weird” by mainstream standards).
Aquaria,good to see another refugee from the “planet of East Texas”. :)
NovaCsays
I should also add that when a teacher labels you an iconoclast they truly are unprepared for you to provide them with the definition of the word and take particular pride in it.
Kel, OMsays
I like the tenor of the comments on the ABC site, too.
The first of the comments I made on the site (which was a condensed version of what I wrote on my blog) didn’t get posted. But I’m glad the cultural relativism one did.
You did? This is news to me! Now I’m really confused.
If Cath is referring to the recent Canberra “Skeptic’s In The Pub”, I wonder which Canberran she has mistaken for Wowbagger.
Phorce, God of Equinesays
225 –
ah yes, I see what you mean. And I suppose a person really needs to be fresh on the book to catch the nuances. but it may be worth mentioning that we’ve also seen the reverse of taming that appeals to women, right? Like the character who needs to be rescued from his self-destructive habits. I wonder if you consider this to be a variation.
The point about domination, though, still stands. Even if he doesn’t dominate, he still retains the capacity to dominate. He has the purse strings, privilege, property, and the pants. I can’t see how this isn’t alluring for many.
Dustsays
Darcy=Colin Firth.
Enough said.
negentropyeatersays
Walton #110,
But I don’t think that’s an argument for getting rid of capitalism altogether, merely for using government regulation to conserve environmental resources.
Why would individual governments regulate to conserve resources when the same governments are in competition with each other for the safeguard of resources to their nations ?
The only thing that might save capitalism from itself is a truely democratic one world government, and that’s a tall order. Do you really believe this is going to happen ? So far, the G20 and the UN have been mere optical illusions in this regard. I doubt it will ever work. Maybe only for a transition period towards a truely democratic system, that is NOT capitalism.
A system that has as its basis the establishment of property rights and the exploitation of competition rather than cooperation amongst humans will always drive to two things :
1. a limtless growth of the same property rights (ie limtless growth of profits from capital derived from a limitless growth of resource consumption)
2. ever increasing concentration of ownership amongst a few individuals
This is exactly what we have seen over the last 60 years : a doubling of the consumption of resources every 30 years, and an ever increasing concentration of the net wealth amongst a few individuals : on a global scale, it is now such that less than 1% of humans own almost 100% of everything. I sincerely doubt that this is going to work for another 60 years, it will collapse way before then.
That system is self-defeating. Rather than this, we should find a way to transition towards a system that is based on usage (those who work in an activity use the means of production rather than someoneelse owning them) and on maximizing cooperation amongst humans rather than competition.
Rorschachsays
If Cath is referring to the recent Canberra “Skeptic’s In The Pub”, I wonder which Canberran she has mistaken for Wowbagger.
Oh ! That’s kinda funny…:-) I’m glad we’re going to have name tags at the GAC then hey, wouldn’t want to be the talk of all the hot single atheist chicks at the convention, like” yeah that Rorschach guy, he can go all nite long talking about atheism and the future of humanity”, only to be discovered to be a case of mistaken identity with some dude called Dunkin or Dawbin or something…
Stephen Wellssays
Darcy is all very well but Henry Tilney is Austen’s finest hero.
negentropyeatersays
I think there is something terribly sexy about guys who can talk all nite long about atheism and the future of humanity…
And NO, I’m not a hot atheist chick.
Carliesays
There is no monolithic “women like men who…” or “men like women who…” The closest one can get is that people like other people who pay attention to them and are interesting conversational partners, and who are interested in the other person for who they are rather than what they can do/what niche they can fill for them.
As for getting comfortable with people, I have a few friends who swear by the Toastmasters organization. They’ve said that not only do you get the speaking practice that it’s known for, but the chapters usually aren’t very big, and since each event is tied to a theme there’s always that to chat about so you don’t have to think up random subjects. Maybe we should make a sub-thread of Pharyngulan Social Stories
FossilFishysays
Aquaria #225: Thanks for that.
I have a question about these romance novels though. I ran a book store for almost 20 years and we sold tonnes of romance novels including the Regency ones you mentioned. Being a curious sort I read one of the most popular at the time, the name escapes me, and I skimmed a half dozen more. Hardly a representative sample I know, but it was all I was willing to spend the time on. They all may indeed have had a Darcy character as the main protagonist, again, it was a while ago and I don’t remember.
What I do remember is that they all had a plot that put the female protagonist in a situation where she was under situational or societal pressure to have sex. An arranged marriage, a kidnapping by rogues or some-such, never outright rape but always something where the woman was compelled in some way. Of course it all worked out for the best because the male turned out to be a fine sort and worthy of love.
All this left me feeling like the entire genre was based around the notion that women, or at least those in the genre’s target market, felt guilty about sex. It seemed like much of the appeal of these books was the alleviation of that guilt. The female protagonist could be excused her desires after all because the compulsion in the plot had forced her into sex and I assume that that alleviated some of the guilt that the readers were feeling.
So, am I missing something here? Obviously my knowledge of the genre is limited and I’d dearly love to be wrong about this; it doesn’t say anything good about our society. And how does this square with the very positive notion that the appeal of these books is the female reader’s desire for a Darcy-like character?
Carliesays
All this left me feeling like the entire genre was based around the notion that women, or at least those in the genre’s target market, felt guilty about sex
Well, duh. Madonna/whore dichotomy, slut-shaming, “good girls don’t”, “why buy the cow if the milk is free”, rape victim-blaming…our entire society is predicated on the structure that virtuous women do not have sex except with the guy who bought married them.
The only bargaining chip women had to offer for most of the history of civilization (and still, in some places) has been virginity.
FossilFishysays
Carlie # 241. It isn’t really a “duh” thing in so much as my sample size of this genre is all of 7 books. Have you read enough of these books to say that the majority conform to this plot scheme?
I can’t agree that “our entire society is predicated on the structure…” because our society is more than just sexual relations. I will agree that we come from a society in which our entire set of rules about sexual relations were predicated on that structure and I’m hoping that we’re moving towards a society where that isn’t true.
Carliesays
I didn’t mean the duh in the sense of what the genre is, but that there could be any question that women are conditioned to feel guilty about sex. But having read an unfortunate number of those books, the answer is indeed yes. They’re not called “bodice-rippers” for nothing.
I was sloppy in saying “our entire society is predicated on” – I meant “male-female relations in our society are entirely predicated on”.
SteveVsays
Josh OSG #168
Sorry for late post – eating lunch at my desk
I once worked with a guy who’s accent wasn’t just regional, it was confined to a single street in a small town.
At age 10 his family, together with about 20 others, had transferred from a mining village in County Durham to Midsomer Norton (in the Somerset coalfield) because of the closure of the coal mine.
The combination of Geordie and Zummerset was …strange.
badgersdaughtersays
Josh OSG too: Josh, I didn’t get home till late last night and I immediately fell asleep, so I;m sorry I didn’t send you that recipe. I’ll get it out to you today. I’m having one teeny problem, though; here at work (yes, I’m already working and I have been since 6) I can’t access TypePad, so I can’t retrieve your e-mail address. Would you send me a test message to my username at gmail.com so I can reply? Thanks :)
Sven DiMilosays
Threadmas Eve!
Happy Monkey!
David Marjanovićsays
Why not? I’ve been naughty (by driving 70 on a 60 road while being sleep deprived.)
<snorts, distorts face, and kicks Pikachu in belly. Hard.>
“Barack” supposedly is either Swahili for “lightning” or Hebrew for “blessing from heaven”.
It’s “blessing” in Arabic, same as Hebrew Baruch.
how the fuck do you make diacriticals here?
“Here”? That depends on your computer. One possibility is the character map: on a Mac you click on the flag near the top right corner of your screen; in Windows, it’s hidden in Start > All Programs > tools or extras or however it’s called in English > System Programs > Character Map, but once you use it, it’ll stay in the start menu.
Wowbagger:
I can’t believe you, of all people are inept on the dating scene.
Don’t misundreshtmate the differences between the Internet, where you’re for instance not even supposed to look into people’s eyes, and meatspace.
(To go off on a tangent with that example, I’ve already mentioned how I overcompensated at my first scientific meaning and stared at people too much. Without social expectations, I wouldn’t look anywhere in particular while talking, except when expecting a visible reaction.)
negentropyeatersays
For info, the Lomborg thread is now infested by Lomborg fans (3 of them currently online if I count well).
badgersdaughtersays
I’m going to an atheist Meetup here in Houston tomorrow night. I’m glad you all vented in this thread because I will have things to keep in mind when I am there. I have typically been guilty of thinking I’m the only uncomfortable, socially inept person in the room. But lately I’ve proven to myself that I can be socially “ept” to a degree if I smile and act like I’m glad to meet people. And all of you have proven to me that if someone doesn’t respond, maybe it’s not me… maybe they don’t intend to seem negative… maybe they’re decent, caring people, but “slow to warm up.” That’s fine with me. I can invest the energy.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
badgersdaughter: Prepared for the snow?
badgersdaughtersays
About “bodice rippers”… I’ve read too many of these in my teens and early 20s, and I agree with Carlie. After all, look at what they’re called. You don’t imagine the heroine rips her own bodice, do you?
badgersdaughtersays
Hahaha, a hundred flakes will fall from the sky, stick for thirty seconds, and the city will freak out worse than a hurricane. I prepare for hurricanes.
I’m working from home today, logged into the work network. I don’t have to be anywhere till tonight and I’m sure the danger will be past by then… and if not, meh.
David Marjanovićsays
How to read a scientific paper
Desperate attempt to get away from the depressing lack-of-relationship stories. I really shouldn’t have read them when there were three layers of clouds.
Yesterday evening I got the book I had ordered from Amazon about what it’s like to be a scientist in Germany. There’s some general stuff in it, too, like the following “guide to the phraseology of the scientific paper” (everything in italics is in English in the otherwise German original):
The scientist’s language is rich in elegant circumscriptions of his ignorance, his lack of will or his incapability. Commonly they are used in the Introduction and Discussion of papers and grant proposals. Their formulaic character comes from mutual copying.
How it is written – What it really means
appears to play an important role in
– could participate in
may be therapeutically useful for Therapeutic approaches involving X are expected to be of rapidly increasing importance in the future
– a therapeutic use is improbable
These phenomena appear to be consistent with The results suggest that The results indicate that
– we believe that
It is generally accepted that
– a few others believe it, too
appears to be an excellent choice to
– possibly usable for
Our observations suggest at least two different components in the response to substance X. drug X induced a variety of pharamcological actions
– we don’t know the mechanism through which X works
It will be important to check whether
– We’re checking right now
A typical set of data is shown in Fig. 1
– Fig. 1 shows our best data
To our knowledge, this is the first paper which reports that
– priority claim for an unimportant discovery
To our knowledge, the nature of X has not been determined previousy.
– As above, but finer.
Of the scores of Y proteins known to exist, only a handful have been purified
– To the dozen purified Y proteins we have added the thirteenth.
Several lines of evidence demonstrate that
– it would suit us very well if
Drug Y could be an important pharmacological tool to Drug Y is a promising tool to
– the importance of Y is unclear
We tentatively assign a mol. mass of x kD to this protein
– the determination of molecular mass failed
The X-sensitive receptors are supposed to be involved in neuronal plasticity, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, cancer and HIV.
– We don’t know the function of those receptors, but we need new grants.
we have been unable to reproduce the results of Miller & Meyer (1989) contrary to the results of Miller & Meyer (1989)
– We think the results of Miller & Meyer are wrong.
Preliminary experiments showed that
– we hope that
The purpose of this study was
– afterwards it turned out that
These results were confirmed by Waterbird et al. (1990)
– we published before Waterbird et al. (1990)
This approach could be a potentially powerful means of
– having tried so many approaches already, we think this one could be tried, too
Our results confirm and extend previous conclusions that
– we didn’t find anything new
Besides [sic] the obvious scientific value of this study, an understanding of the structure of X may also be important clinically
– the scientific value of the investigation is average, and a clinical application is unlikely
These findings should enhance the knowledge of
– we don’t know what to do with the results
It is hoped that this work will stimulate further interest in the field Carefully conducted, this strategy has the potential to generate secure and comprehensive information on
– the approach was a failure
Source: P. 13 of S. Bär [obvious pseudonym]: Forschen auf Deutsch. Der Machiavelli für Forscher – und solche, die es noch werden wollen [Doing research in German. The Machiavelli for researchers – and those who want to become ones], Harri Deutsch 2005.
I’ve seen bigger and arguably better lists, but this is the only one I have available. Like this one, they’re all heavily slanted toward molecular biology, so that I haven’t encountered all of the phrases in the wild.
One important item is missing: “strongly suggest”. That’s what’s used where everyone not neck-deep in science theory and/or modesty would say “prove”. I’ve used it myself :-)
AJ Milnesays
You don’t imagine the heroine rips her own bodice, do you?
Well, I wasn’t until just now…
(/Thanks.)
windysays
snorts, distorts face, and kicks Pikachu in belly. Hard.
You should ask for his safeword first, before you try any extreme kinks.
AJ Milnesays
Laughing hard at #253…
And re ‘Prepared for the snow?’, why, thank you for asking! Why, yes, we have snow! Lots of snow! The first fall that’s added up to more ‘n like about a centimeter or two in a long, long, long several weeks is falling right now! Finally! And any rumour that I just ran outside to roll around in it delightedly without stopping to think I was only wearing my bathrobe, much to the alarm and amusement of my neighbours, is a scurrilous and totally unwarranted exaggerations…
… Insofar as I was also wearing my socks.
In other news, I have found myself unable to participate meaningfully in the high school experience subthread ‘cos honestly, my high school experience was… ummm… sorta weird. Hard to summarize, even.
I mean, there was some of that asshole terrorizing bullies creating occasional misery stuff, as something of a continuation of grade school, but only for the first year or so. We had a very streamed school, and the goons mostly disappeared into their own little shop class enclave after a while, and/or dropped out and/or drove into rock cuts at high speed while drunk and thus stopped being much of a problem. Leaving me in the company of the more academically inclined jocks as really the only potential source of trouble, and those were mostly pretty okay, actually… There was a certain give and take, sure, but we all had our moments…
And somewhere along the way I did this strange transition to geeky class clown/rabble rouser thing… And even developed a reasonably rewarding/varied, if again, rather odd, social life. Sure, I was in the general weird kid bucket, but people treated me pretty well. They were fairly small classes, too, I guess, especially toward graduation, and we mostly got along.
And that’s about the best I can do for a capsule summary…
Well, there was all of that and some really hideous mullets…
And in retrospect, yes, I guess it did leave me with some scars. But mostly just when remembering the mullets.
(/And if anyone brings those up again, I’m so denying I ever copped to ’em. Did not happen. Nope. That’s just crazy talk. Some evil troll who hacked the server wrote that into my comment. Or… Wait… Better: that Laden guy done it. Yeah… That’s the ticket.)
Aquariasays
Fossil:
Yes, there are a set of these books that are very much about women making decisions about having sex, and guilt issues and all that.
But not all of them, and not always for the reasons we think.
The thing is, in these historical romances, the writers are very definitely writing a fantasy about a time when the behavior their heroines exhibit would have had more horrific results than are suffered. I think even the dumbest of the genre’s readers know it.
Somehow, though you have to reflect the reality of the medieval era, &etc. Guilt is a lazy way to do it.
This isn’t to say that the guilt of the readers isn’t taken into consideration by some of the writers and exploited to prey upon it. It probably is. but it’s not the whole reason.
As for the plots–Well, yes and no about situational sex situations. The main Harlequin and Silhouette lines still sport chaste plots. The Xian romance subgenre is also strongly chaste. There’s a wedding ring, and the sun sets. The sex is understood to be awesome, I suppose.
Now for the ones that do focus on sex–the situational ones? Well, the point of the genre is to answer: How does the heroing et laid? And you have to be original about it, too. That’s a toughie.
The pressure situations are really–really–frowned upon in the modern industry, or it was the last I had contact with it in the late 90s The monstrous “heroes” of books like Wicked Loving Lies are just about a relic now.
For the record, 1976’s WWL is the sickest, craziest “romance” book ever written.. I think someone dared Rosemary Rogers to thrown in as many genre staples as possible, and some kinky twists: Convents, Irish troubles, Napoleon, Regency England, Native Americans, pirates, a sheik, mercenaries, the hero and heroine both enslaved, a stolen baby, confused paternity, bastards literal and metaphorical, adultery, borderline incest, multiple rape–it’s all in there. And anal sex, too!
And even though the heroine is an idiot, she’s smarter than 99% of the heroines written today. That’s pretty damned sad.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
Yesterday, our Spokesgay was asking about Patricia. She is still around. She has her good days and her bad days, that is all I will disclose. When she has not been around for a while, well, you can guess. But she appreciates the well wishes and kind words from the people of this blog.
Aquariasays
About “bodice rippers”… I’ve read too many of these in my teens and early 20s, and I agree with Carlie. After all, look at what they’re called. You don’t imagine the heroine rips her own bodice, do you?
Pick up any 1970s book by Rosemary Rogers and you’ll understand why the ripped bodices referred to are those of the women.
Did y’all know that American writers have borrowed the yaoi concept from Japan and are now writing gay romance novels for women? I’m almost embarrassed to reveal that they’re called Zipper Rippers.
I’m not clever enough to make that up.
Carliesays
Dammit dammit dammit!!!! I missed a few Casual Fridays and Cognitive Daily went and closed. :(
Dammit!
Antiochus Epiphanessays
For the record, 1976’s WWL is the sickest, craziest “romance” book ever written..
I’m getting it.
Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OMsays
All of this talk of high school and spring training starting for baseball teams, including the dogdamned aging Cubs, brought to mind one of the greatest rants ever. It occurred back in 1983, when I was still in high school. I may be the Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse but cannot top this. And you can print it!
negentropyeatersays
Did y’all know that American writers have borrowed the yaoi concept from Japan and are now writing gay romance novels for women?
I wonder if the success of Brokeback Mountain (the movie) had anything to do with that ?
Aquariasays
Don’t misundreshtmate the differences between the Internet, where you’re for instance not even supposed to look into people’s eyes, and meatspace.
Yeah, I do know better. I remember when someone I knew IRL met some folks from a writers group online, and the most risque of the women online was actually a very buttoned down, quiet woman who could barely speak to anyone. She was so eloquent online, so outrageous, yet so shy in person.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
Scratch that. I read the description and reviews for WLL on Amazon. While I am pro-depravity, this one seems a little too rape-y for me. I suppose I should have picked up on that in the thread explanans of the bodice-ripper. But I admit freely that I didn’t really know what a bodice was either.
Also, having never read a romance novel, AND given the discussion above, what is the appeal (expecially the Xian romance novel*)? These books sell like hotcakes, no? Are romance novels intended only to titillate, or is there some more complex emotional need that these serve? I’m wondering if somehow they are akin to the revenge therapy genre of movies…you know…hero/heroine is wronged egregiously and must initiate bloody spree of righteous vengeance until the antagonist has been…erm…served, and so forth; a completely formulaic yet satisfying genre that I enjoy immensely especially when Kung Fu or stabbing is involved.
Perhaps I have said too much.
*Bleargh! Rowlph!
David Marjanovićsays
Plenty of dinosaur bones found in a new site in southwestern France… in just 4 m². Yes, four square meters. Different dinosaur species, turtles, and crocodiles.
You should ask for his safeword first, before you try any extreme kinks.
No kinks involved. I’m seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.
Aquariasays
I wonder if the success of Brokeback Mountain (the movie) had anything to do with that ?
Maybe, but I wouldn’t be so sure.
Until a meltdown last year, one of the few growth markets in publishing for several recent years was manga, and yaoi has shown surprising (and continued) success as a subgenre within that market. Better yet, it’s primarily a young adult market, women have long been the bigger buyers of book, so the publishers are trying to capitalize on this happy confluence of market trends and demographics.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
This is the thread that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friend
Some people starting commenting not knowing what it was
And they’ll continue commenting just because…
New images from NASA’s Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope show where supernova remnants emit radiation a billion times more energetic than visible light. The images bring astronomers a step closer to understanding the source of some of the universe’s most energetic particles — cosmic rays….
Fermi’s Large Area Telescope (LAT) mapped billion-electron-volt (GeV) gamma-rays from three middle-aged supernova remnants — known as W51C, W44 and IC 443 — that were never before resolved at these energies. (The energy of visible light is between two and three electron volts.) Each remnant is the expanding debris of a massive star that blew up between 4,000 and 30,000 years ago….
Carliesays
what is the appeal (expecially the Xian romance novel*
I think the latter is fairly easy to explain. The life of a fundamentalist Christian teenage female
is one that is full of being told NO. No, you aren’t allowed to have sex. No, you aren’t allowed to make out. No, you aren’t allowed to really have a boyfriend. No, you aren’t allowed to watch R-rated movies. No, you most certainly shouldn’t be thinking of such naughty things, ever. But oh, here is a novel where a heroine just like you finds out that all of this suffering and waiting is worthwhile, because it leads directly to true love forever and ever and she is golden in the eyes of God and her family and her husband and everyone wishes to be her and this can all be yours too if you just stick with the program! Also it has just a smidgen of that sex we won’t let you do anything about, but in an approved way so you can get a tiny jolly that will reinforce your desire to live just like the heroine so you can hope to get more of that good feeling someday.
Aquariasays
Are romance novels intended only to titillate, or is there some more complex emotional need that these serve?
Depends on the market reading it. When it’s teenagers–yes, it’s titillation. When it’s grown women, it’s about the emotional satisfaction of the romance storyline, the escape to faraway lands, and so forth.
These books fill a very deep need for some women that isn’t necessarily good for them, sort of like literary chocolate. And cheap, American chocolate at that. I’ve long felt that a reason this industry is so huge (sometimes up to 50% of all fiction sales!) is because, like chocolate, the readers of these books are addicted to the emotional need it fulfills in them. Those of us who’ve worked at bookstores have had dozens of regulars who buy every Harlequin/Silhouette book in every series–every single month, and there can be 8 or more series at any given time, with 2-5 (or more!) books per series. And that’s not counting the most recent mainline titles from Avon, Dorchester. Zebra and the other romance publishing lines. Before you ask, it’s not to collect–they read all of them, if each is their idea of good.
They know when the books are coming in, and show up at the store on that day, often as soon as the store opens, like a junkie getting her fix.
BTW, you made a wise decision to avoid WLL. I personally love it for the camp factor of its sheer awfulness, but it’s not for everyone.
windysays
Yes, four square meters. Different dinosaur species, turtles, and crocodiles.
Truly, the Flood worked in mysterious ways.
No kinks involved. I’m seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.
As long as we’re sharing school memories, I’m not too fond of hard kicks to the stomach, either.
mattheathsays
Re zipper rippers: Hasn’t most slashfic been written and read by women since slashfic typically starred the gentleman in the original post and was distributed in photocopied leaflets? The only odd thing about gay-male romances aimed at straight women is that it didn’t become common sooner.
Silisays
There’s a slashfic topic now?! Damn, but I need to catch up.
In the meantime, since I gather he has a few fans here: New post in the Things I Won’t Work With series!
Brownian, OMsays
yes, let’s be honest: why the hell not, if the occasion arises
That’s how I met I-paint-pictures-of-vaginas-with-my-menses girl. She was too into holistic woo to sleep with/date. Bars aren’t effective enough filters.
(This is why ephebophilia makes no sense to me. I didn’t even like teenagers when I was one.)
For me it was undergrads, so late teens ~early twenties. I sabotaged my whole first degree just because I was so angsty about being one of them and loathing them at the same time. Looking back I wonder why I just didn’t chill out, get high and laid instead.
hmm, what made you think we weren’t speaking from experience?
Didn’t mean to imply that you weren’t.
I’m not gay, but many people thought I was.
I still get that, and now I roll with it. What can I say? I’m a straight man but a bisexual flirt who occasionally cross-dresses ever so slightly. Nothing accentuates a crisp, black, double-breasted suit like a little five o’clock shadow, some tastefully dark but striking lipstick, and a Marilyn Munroe birthmark drawn in.
I found the lack of acceptance to be liberating. Learning not to give a fuck about what the troglodytes think while you are still young is a gift
I had a bizarro experience in my second undergrad degree. I was 26, still young enough to think I was, well, young, but clearly a geezer to all the 18-year-olds in the first year bio and math classes. What resulted is that I took on some sort of liminal status in which I could do nearly anything without fear of social repercussion. No one could judge me, because I had an unjudgable status. “Is he being weird or just old?” “I dunno, I never met an old guy before.” Seriously. 18-year-olds are that dumb.
As a result I made up for experiences lost in my first degree and participated the shit out of my classes and enjoyed an active social life on campus as well. I also used the skills I’d learned as a fundraiser to play mediator in class, rephrasing questions from students that the instructor didn’t quite understand without sounding like I was rephrasing the question (no one likes to lose face). In one class I’d shown up late the first day and couldn’t find a seat except for a bench at the back. I tried to sit there but I couldn’t quite see the overhead (this prof hadn’t graduated to WebCT and powerpoint yet), so I grabbed a chair, carried it to the front of the class, set it down in the middle of the aisle with my notebook on my lap and sat there for the rest of the term, rearranging the seating before and returning it after class to suit my preference. Yeah, like I’m gonna sit where the man wants me to. I did other semi-weird stuff too. So that was my two years of experimenting with social conventions in a university setting. What fun!
The only drawback from that time is that my ex-girlfriend was doing a year-long contract with an NGO across the country, her behaviour (and my reaction to it) being the catalyst that ended our relationship three years later.
For instance, talking about yourself and your interests at great length, and never asking about her and her interests, is Not A Good Idea. You can tell, because you don’t like it when someone does that to you, right? (An exception may be granted when people are actually asking you about yourself, but even then reciprocating is usually a good idea.)
You forgot about the chicks-dig-assholes factor. There is a substantial contingent of women for whom doing the exact opposite is your best bet. And yeah, us guys fall for bullshit just as often. Me especially. I wish it weren’t the case, but there you go.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
The life of a fundamentalist Christian teenage female is one that is full of being told NO.
Ahhh. This makes sense (thanks, too, Aquaria). I know many of the students in my universities athiest alliance experience a sense of relief after shucking off the constraints of religion.
Beccasays
I mostly lurk here, but I gotta chime in in defense of the modern romance novel. Yes, there was a time when rape/forceful seduction was the norm… and thankfully, the genre has outgrown that trope.
I mostly read romantic suspense/romance-themed SF/F, and historical romances for a fairly simple reason: romance-nuanced genres are the only books where I can be guaranteed a reasonably happy ending – if not Happily Ever After, at least Happy for Now. Too much fiction is unremittingly grim – if I want unremittingly grim, I’ll read political blogs or the newspaper.
But there’s a lot of good scholarship being done at places like Yale about the romance novel and why it’s so successful. If you’re truly interested in romance as a genre, hang out at places like Dear Author or Smart Bitches Trashy Books.
Menyambalsays
The writer who supposedly invented the Regency Romance is Georgette Heyer. She wrote books set in other times, too, but she got regencies started as good novels with complete characters living in an ineteresting world. She would be ashamed, I am sure, to see what the genre has degenerated into. She wrote well, and deserves more recognition than she gets these days. My family strongly recommends that you give her a try.
Brownian, OMsays
As long as we’re sharing school memories, I’m not too fond of hard kicks to the stomach, either.
Back to fat Junior High Brownian: a gang of skater guys I sorta hung out with but was clearly the grassy stump on the social totem pole would pick on me and one other guy, Mike, by tossing us into a hedge at lunchtime. They called it ‘Hedge’ (clever guys, eh?) and afterwards Mike and I would pick ourselves up, brush off the twigs, and we’d all go smoke cigarettes in the field. Eventually Mike and I figured it would save everyone time and effort if we just threw ourselves into the hedge instead of fighting it (and by that time the hedge had a nice little hollow from all the previous tossings so I could avoid injury by throwing myself just right. Of course, this took the thrill of it away from the other guys and eventually we retired ‘Hedge’ and just went straight to the illicit smoking.
How the fuck do people not see through this moron’s idiocy?
Beccasays
Did y’all know that American writers have borrowed the yaoi concept from Japan and are now writing gay romance novels for women?
m/m slash has been around in the states a lot longer than yaoi has been imported – I *think* it started in the ’70s with Kirk/Spock slash, but from the beginning it was m/m romance written primarily for and by women.
Brownian, OMsays
m/m slash has been around in the states a lot longer than yaoi has been imported – I *think* it started in the ’70s with Kirk/Spock slash, but from the beginning it was m/m romance written primarily for and by women.
I’m no expert, but that’s my understanding of slash fiction as well Becca, and the origin, named for KirkSlashSpock who were often the original protagonists.
Aquariasays
Becca
1) No matter where m/m slash started, the very recent success of yaoi in the market is fueling the recent rise in publications of zipper rippers. Like I said, publishers are capitalizing on a convergence of factors very favorable to their bottom lines.
2)I gotta chime in in defense of the modern romance novel.
I’ve seen you in other forums where this topic comes up, promoting those sites and generally making a lot of laughable assertions about the romance industry. You don’t disappoint.
Yes, there was a time when rape/forceful seduction was the norm… and thankfully, the genre has outgrown that trope.
It hasn’t done a good enough job of it, because elements of it linger throughout the genre. The obsession with breaking hymens, the thinly-veiled “your lips say no but your eyes so yes” adaptations–these are ongoing tropes in the genre, and indicative of sanitized rape.
I mostly read romantic suspense/romance-themed SF/F, and historical romances for a fairly simple reason: romance-nuanced genres are the only books where I can be guaranteed a reasonably happy ending – if not Happily Ever After, at least Happy for Now.
I’ll have to take your word for that, but, honestly, that is always what the readers say, parrot-like, yet they don’t realize how extraordinarily shallow that sounds, and how much it sounds like an obsessive escape into phantasy. I don’t think many of you analyze just what it is you get from these novels in any deep or meaningful manner.
Too much fiction is unremittingly grim – if I want unremittingly grim, I’ll read political blogs or the newspaper.
Again with the escapes from reality. Some of it is okay, but you guys seem obsessed with it!
You don’t even understand what is really going on with these books, how they’re indoctrinating women into what to accept from men. You don’t understand how they repeatedly reinforce the notion that the only woman worthy anything is a young virgin who gives herself only to one man forever and ever. He can have all the partners he wants, but she cannot. Hell, at least a lot of the bodice rippers of the 70s gave women enough equality to get some experience with someone other than one creep with more libido than sense.
But there’s a lot of good scholarship being done at places like Yale about the romance novel and why it’s so successful.
Of course we want to know why millions of women in this day and age waste their minds on this drivel.
Beccasays
I’ve seen you in other forums where this topic comes up, promoting those sites and generally making a lot of laughable assertions about the romance industry. You don’t disappoint.
I’m not sure what forums you’re talking about – I mostly lurk, and rarely post about romance fiction. I know there’s at least one other Becca who posts in many of the same places I lurk, and who has some opinions that I do not share – since I can’t think of any other place I’ve recommended SBTB or Dear Author, maybe you’re thinking of a different Becca?
yeah, I’ll admit my reading tends toward shallow. I’ve got enough other stuff to deal with in my life that I have no problem admitting that I read mostly for escape. I *like* happy endings.
but I don’t think I’m being a dupe of the Patriarchy to like books where people wind up happy. And very few of the books I read have young virgins as heroines (but then, I don’t read Harlequins) – may I recommend Paladin of Souls, by Lois Bujold for a fascinating take on the Heroine’s Journey (as distinct from the Hero’s Journey in fancy dress) — it deals with an older woman who is escaping from being over-protected, to find her own power and worth.
Yeah, there’s a lot of drivel out there – in any genre – but there can also be a lot of good, thought-provoking writing that just happens to have a happy ending. It all depends on where you look for it.
Aquariasays
The writer who supposedly invented the Regency Romance is Georgette Heyer.
As we know it now–yes, that is the general consensus. Overall, the academic consensus would credit Jane Austen with creating it. Some scholars even trace the origin of the current romance novel itself to her.
She wrote books set in other times, too, but she got regencies started as good novels with complete characters living in an ineteresting world. She would be ashamed, I am sure, to see what the genre has degenerated into.
It sort of depends on the kind of Regency you’re talking about. The titles put out by houses like Avon are definitely more sexual than Heyer’s books.
However, there are entire publishing lines dedicated to writing Heyeresque Regencies. The stories and style are very similar, and would mostly garner G-ratings. They’re just not as well-written most of the time. Mary Balogh and Gayle Wilson are two of the better authors.
She wrote well, and deserves more recognition than she gets these days. My family strongly recommends that you give her a try.
Agreed, 100%. Her writing wouldn’t win a Nobel, but it was very good compared to now. Her touch was lovely, and her historical research impeccable. A sample of her Regency books is here.
Heyer wrote some nice whodunnits as well. I discovered her while in Bath (which is inordinately proud of Austen as it happens, but I’ven’t read her – yet).
Jadehawk, OMsays
there are romance novels set among the Amish now, too…
Sven DiMilosays
and are there “magic-garment rippers” set among the Mormons?
Lynna, OMsays
As an addition to the discussion about bodice rippers, and related to Sven’s question about “magic-garment rippers”: There was a discussion recently at Bitch Magazine about the oddity of the “Forever Your Girl” syndrome. The discussion includes some feminist and anti-feminist writing from the 1960s, plus a discussion of the sneakily mormon “Twilight” series. The worship of eternal youthfulness (read “childishness”) in women, the odd combination of offering sex while denying it, the need for protection from a man — all these issues come up. As far as I can tell, the ideal ripper of one’s bodice is a vampire because he can rip your bodice with his teeth, grant you eternal youth (read “eternal innocence”), and can offer you more protection than mormon garmies.
But Andelin [Helen Andelin, author of “Fascinating Womanhood”] insists that a “fascinating woman” finds happiness precisely by assuming a secondary status and lacking an inner life. Being infantile, manic, pixie-ish, and dreamy is not just a cute way to act in movies; in Fascinating Womanhood, it’s posited as an important ingredient in attracting a mate, which is the most important element of female happiness.
Nowhere is this idea more abundant in current pop culture than in the Twilight franchise. Bella Swan can’t properly be called manic, since mania is defined by wild mood swings and Bella is almost uniformly morose. But she has the pixie-dream-girl part down pat, what with her accident-prone fragility, her halting speech, her separateness from others, and her inability to participate in what most of the world knows as reality. And the extent to which the relationship between human Bella and vampire Edward depends on her childlike weakness—and his power to simultaneously threaten and protect her—is one of the more striking aspects of the series.
Bella’s fragility and the protectiveness she arouses in him are things that Edward mentions often. He initially wants to feed on her; but, just as Andelin would predict, when he senses her vulnerability and admiration for him, his bloodlust is tamed, and he feels a burning desire to rescue her from would-be rapists, runaway vehicles, and vampires more vicious than himself. Meanwhile, Bella’s overriding desire to be with Edward is complicated by the fact that she is human—and therefore aging—while he is undead and ageless. Edward would rather she retain her humanity than her youth, but Bella is desperate to become a vampire before she turns 20, so she can spend eternity as an adolescent. New Moon, the second book in the series, begins with a nightmare in which Bella has grown old: She’s gray and wrinkled, while Edward is still a gloriously handsome 17-year-old. Despite the repeated assertion that Bella is mature beyond her years, she gauges her compatibility with Edward primarily on physical age, and is dismayed by each birthday—even spending life as an eternal 18-year-old is too old, because it’s one birthday older than Edward.
When she finally does become a vampire shortly before turning 19, Bella is thrilled to realize that she will be childlike for all eternity, a teenage bride and mother cocooned in a tiny family circle for the rest of her existence. Sounds fascinating, right?
Another thing to learn from the mormon author of the Twilight series is that remaining a virgin is a high ideal, while making millions selling sexually titillating (but never consummated) teen sex to girls is the highest ideal. Oh, yes, and prolonged denial of one’s sexual urges renders females highly attractive to werewolves.
Lynna, OMsays
Poetry for our Bodice Ripper discussion … written with tongue firmly in cheek:
BODICE RIPPER
Each kiss from my deep-hearted lover
Surprises the sleeping soul in me.
Knitted together with light,
We sway like leaves in the moonlit air.
The gods acknowledge in every
Sweetened stroke and lambent caress
That in a moment there is timelessness.
When one who loves me kisses me
The earth turns more perfectly
In its course through the languid heavens.
SteveVsays
Becca #284
‘Yeah, there’s a lot of drivel out there – in any genre’
Sturgeon’s Law
Knockgoatssays
it would be nice to be that person with brains, a personality, and looks that make perfect strangers undress you with their eyes. – Brownian, OM
I supervised* a (male) PhD student who fits that description. Just as well I’m strictly het.
*Well, when I say “supervised”, I mostly watched and admired as he organised his own research, wrote up, and got through his oral with no corrections.
Lynna, OMsays
A contribution to the discussion of experiences during high school:
The girl that sat behind me in French class was not a good student, but she was useful for practical advice. She knew about tampons instead of pads. The day before we graduated, her boyfriend had caught her with an older man and had beaten the guy so badly that her bra, lying on the bed, collected blood in the cups.
I knew the girl behind me well, knew her used breasts and sex were still somehow innocent and ignorant. She was a babe in the Alaskan woods. She didn’t harbor remorse as far as the beating went, only that she had to take special care to wash the blood out of her bra. I stored her right-away-cold-water-soak advice for blood stains. She was a teenage relationship virgin. Men might fight over her, but it was just one more thing on her way to growing up in the last frontier.
She was secretly pleased to have a boyfriend that beat the blood out of another guy. I knew he would have beaten any guy over any girl and might never remember if it had been over her.
I gave her paper or a pen, or both, from my book bag every day.
llewellysays
Tired of bodice-ripper romance novels?
Try something new.
cicelysays
As far as I can tell, the ideal ripper of one’s bodice is a vampire because he can rip your bodice with his teeth, grant you eternal youth (read “eternal innocence”), and can offer you more protection than mormon garmies.
And supernaturally great sex! Don’t forget that! The (modern) werewolf appeals for many of the same reasons; and so, we have the Fang Porn (excuse me, I do mean “Supernatural Romance”) genre. What ordinary, mortal, man can possibly compete?
Now I’m off to follow Sili’s link at 274.
Brownian, OMsays
I supervised* a (male) PhD student who fits that description. Just as well I’m strictly het.
I love/hate those types, Knockgoats. Part of me wants to destroy them out of jealousy (“This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you, asshole!”) but the other part of me is struck still just watching them. Besides, they’re too damn nice to really hate.
One day I was at a video store with my ex and when we got to the counter I espied some bars of white chocolate for sale. I picked one up and heard a voice say, “Trust me: even if you don’t rent a movie, buy the chocolate; it’s that good.” I looked up into the blue eyes of a 20-year-old Matthew McConaughey look-alike (except with personality) and I actually swooned. “You, um, you like chocolate?” I stammered, twirling a curl of hair around one finger. The poor kid was immediately weirded out, and my girlfriend had to pay up and drag me out of store by my arm while I just stared at this poor, gorgeous boy. Honestly, I could have spent the rest of my life staring at him and felt it was a good use of my days.
She was secretly pleased to have a boyfriend that beat the blood out of another guy.
I was talking to two of my coworkers, both female, one in a committed relationship with her female partner the other some kind of overly resourceful übermensch with a ecohippie vibe about how they would respond to the young boy hero fantasy, in which a young boy, not quite knowing how to relate to girls, fantasizes that the object of his affection is threatened by some sort of danger that he can swoop in and defeat, and thus win the girl’s love. They were mystified that any girl would really want to be rescued and fall in love with their rescuer. I’ll have to pass on your story, Lynna.
windysays
the women agreed to a tee that what they liked about Darcy was that he was an intelligent, cultured, loyal and decent man, whose ultimate quality was the ability to accept valid criticism about himself, and then do what it takes to change himself for the better.
If your nametag doesn’t have Rorschach on it, then I’m going to be mightily confused.
Brownian, OMsays
If your nametag doesn’t have Rorschach on it, then I’m going to be mightily confused.
Really? The shifting inkblot mask won’t be enough?
llewellysays
When I was in seventh grade, I somehow ended up trading book recommendations with a young lady my age. I got her into MZB, Andre Norton, Ursla LeGuin, Piers Anthony, and a lot of other stuff. She recommended Austen, Bronte, Steinbeck, Dickens, Barbara Hambly, and a bunch of forgettable romance novels. And then one day she recommended this:
… Convents, Irish troubles, Napoleon, Regency England, Native Americans, pirates, a sheik, mercenaries, the hero and heroine both enslaved, a stolen baby, confused paternity, bastards literal and metaphorical, adultery, borderline incest, multiple rape …
I was scarred for life.
windysays
llewelly: the Angélique books had most of that AND thieves, harlots, alchemy, poison, chocolate and the Inquisition. Oh and instead of Regency England and a piddling sheik: the court of Louis XIV and the Sultan of Morocco. Top that!
Knockgoatssays
Duh! I didn’t realise this was the latest incarnation of the Endless Thread. I’ve caught up now.
I’m seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation – David Marjanović
I second that. The two times I’ve nearly been killed (but escaped without injury to self or others by sheer good luck), that has been the cause. The first time it was me – driving a truck on a temporary job that involved a nasty shift pattern. I carried on driving because I wanted to keep the job – and woke up with the truck barrelling along the pavement [sidewalk]. Fortunately, at 6am, no-one was on it. Second time my lover at that time was driving, we’d made a very early start and both fell asleep, when she did, the car slewed right across a dual carriageway and into a ditch.
Schooldays and decades… I think there must be less nerd-bullying in the UK, or was then, than in the US and Oz. I never got picked on for that, but this was the late ’60s-early ’70s, when being macho wasn’t so cool, and I got in with the post-hippy crowd – I was a bit too young for the summers of ’67 (love) and ’68 (revolution), unfortunately. My teens and early twenties weren’t great though, because I started losing my hair at 14. Not very noticeable until I was about 18, and no doubt if I hadn’t, I’d have worried about some other aspect of my appearance – but not great for the confidence. Really, I think every decade since then has been better, at least up to the ’40s – can’t yet judge them against the half-completed ’50s. I’m really looking forward to my ’60s, when I won’t have an employer and can do the research I want to do – but then, fate may well be waiting round the corner with a sock full of sand!
Daniasays
it would be nice to be that person with brains, a personality, and looks that make perfect strangers undress you with their eyes. – Brownian, OM
I supervised* a (male) PhD student who fits that description. Just as well I’m strictly het.
I recently met a guy who, in my admittedly suspicious opinion, fits Brownian’s description almost perfectly. Okay, so maybe he doesn’t exactly make strangers undress him with their eyes, but he’s good-looking and caught my eye immediately. He definitely has a personality and, well, I admire his brain. I found him, um, interesting. Oh, and he knows how to make me laugh, which is probably what most attracts me in a man.
So, I thought he was perfect. But I was wrong, as I discovered last week when we were happily chatting about books and I found out that he loves Dan Brown. I told him I had never read any of Dan Brown’s books* and wasn’t particularly interested either, but he promptly offered to lend me one. Oh well, if you ever see me praising Dan Brown’s writing or something like that… just don’t hit me to hard, okay? People are allowed to do very silly things when they’re in love**, right?
**Fuck. I guess I wasn’t supposed to write that. For the record, I’m not admitting anything. Shut up! No, I’m not!
Knockgoatssays
I love/hate those types, Knockgoats. Part of me wants to destroy them out of jealousy (“This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you, asshole!”) but the other part of me is struck still just watching them. Besides, they’re too damn nice to really hate. – Brownian, OM
As is maybe obvious, my reaction was really a quasi-paternal pride – the age gap is sufficient for me to have been his father, anyway.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
No kinks involved. I’m seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.
I don’t blame you, I do realize that I’m a bad driver at times. Would you like to hear my excuse?
Knockgoatssays
I found out that he loves Dan Brown. – Dania
Hmm, that’s not so much a flaw as a crevasse! He’s not worthy of you, Dania :-p
(Seriously, almost everyone has some literary tastes they should be ashamed of – I’m not about to reveal mine – but try to find out what he likes about DB.)
Brownian, OMsays
I recently met a guy who, in my admittedly suspicious opinion, fits Brownian’s description almost perfectly. Okay, so maybe he doesn’t exactly make strangers undress him with their eyes, but he’s good-looking and caught my eye immediately. He definitely has a personality and, well, I admire his brain. I found him, um, interesting. Oh, and he knows how to make me laugh, which is probably what most attracts me in a man.
So, I thought he was perfect. But I was wrong, as I discovered last week when we were happily chatting about books and I found out that he loves Dan Brown.
I thought you were talking about me and was wondering when we’d met until you got to the Dan Brown bit. Clearly, I’ve been imperfectly cloned.
Brownian, OMsays
(Seriously, almost everyone has some literary tastes they should be ashamed of – I’m not about to reveal mine – but try to find out what he likes about DB.)
Mine were Hustler and Penthouse Letters, but only until I found a store from which I could buy/steal more upscale and tasteful porn.
badgersdaughtersays
Top that!
Easily, and with first-class writing skill.
The Lymond Chronicles of Dorothy Dunnett.
What did I win?
'Tis Himself, OMsays
The Connell’s “Over There”:
Daniasays
but try to find out what he likes about DB.)
Oh, I certainly will try. It’s a mystery to me why such an intelligent guy would like DB so much, but no one is perfect. Although some claim to be… ;)
negentropyeatersays
(Seriously, almost everyone has some literary tastes they should be ashamed of – I’m not about to reveal mine – but try to find out what he likes about DB.)
What about newspaper obituaries ? I can spend a surprising amount of time glancing through them.
WowbaggerOMsays
Damn it, I’m still waiting for Cath the Canberra Cook to come back and clarify whether she got the name wrong or there’s someone out there pretending to be me.
I’m having visions (mostly from low-level sleep deprivation; I’ve seen 10 Fringe shows in 5 days) of myself flying to Canberra and lurking around atheist haunts, just waiting for this person to introduce himself to someone as Wowbagger, OM so I can leap out and yell ‘impostor!’ at him in an accusatory tone.
Then, if he tries to claim he is the real Wowbagger, I’ll demand he prove it on the field of battle – that’s right, I’ll challenge him to…a snark-off!
llewellysays
Brownian, OM | February 23, 2010 4:58 PM:
I thought you were talking about me and was wondering when we’d met until you got to the Dan Brown bit. Clearly, I’ve been imperfectly cloned.
Cheap-ass government clones never do have the same mitochondrial DNA. Causes all sorts of weird problems.
Brown’s writing is not just bad; it is staggeringly, clumsily, thoughtlessly, almost ingeniously bad.
Brownian, OMsays
but no one is perfect. Although some claim to be… ;)
Oh, I’ve never claimed to be perfect. More specifically, I have a Becker’s nevus over my left scapula which ever-so-slightly mars the delicate light olive tone of my skin. It’s heartbreaking to witness lovers of mine encounter it for the first time, their innocent mouths agape as if just noticing a hairline flaw in a living diamond. Some take it in stride: grieving, adapting and moving on, eventually recognising like ancient Chinese astronomers the sun indeed has spots. Others…well, others of a more delicate constitution were less able to adapt. My only hope is that psychotherapy might one day advance enough to help them.
Brownian, OMsays
Cheap-ass government clones never do have the same mitochondrial DNA. Causes all sorts of weird problems.
Betcha that’s what Wowbagger’s dealing with now (comment #314).
the Angélique books had most of that AND thieves, harlots, alchemy, poison, chocolate and the Inquisition. Oh and instead of Regency England and a piddling sheik: the court of Louis XIV and the Sultan of Morocco. Top that!
ok, I haven’t actually read them, but I have to admit that I loved the movies when I was a teen.
windysays
Betcha that’s what Wowbagger’s dealing with now (comment #314).
I adore the Language Log analyses of Dan Brown. I probably go back and read them every couple of months.
One of my literary-minded friends and I had lunch one day while I had a copy of it (despite my snarky attitude I won’t criticise something unless I’ve actually read it) and we took turns passing it back and forth, opening it to random passages, reading them out loud in mock-serious voices – and laughing uproariously.
My current guilty-pleasure fiction reading includes psychological crime thrillers like those of Jonathan Kellerman and Jeffrey Deaver; however, I have to confess that I haven’t always had such a high brow, since I spent much of my youth reading execrable fantasy and horror.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Wowbagger, if you like psychological crime thrillers, try Elizabeth George with Inspector Lynnley and Sgt. Havers.
Happy Threadmas eve everybody. Happy Monkey.
Epiktsays
Dania:
People are allowed to do very silly things when they’re in love**, right?
I have to admit to listening to several hours of Moody Blues with a shiny new girlfriend for exactly that reason. Love puts bad, bad chemicals in your brain.
badgersdaughtersays
Josh, OSG: You have mail and recipes. :D
Jadehawk, OMsays
People are allowed to do very silly things when they’re in love**, right?
does moving thousands of miles count? first time was 5600miles (9000km); second time was 1000miles (1500km)
badgersdaughtersays
does moving thousands of miles count? first time was 5600miles (9000km); second time was 1000miles (1500km)
Sigh. Yes.
700 miles the first time. 1000 miles the second time. I would do it again, many times over, for the right guy.
MAJeff and Ichthyic expressed interest in a torrent of Jesus of Montreal. So here are several.
WowbaggerOMsays
MAJeff and Ichthyic expressed interest in a torrent of Jesus of Montreal.
My ex-flatmate – a French-Canadian chiropractor (make of that what you will) – is an extra in that. I have no idea which scene(s) though; he never elaborated – and I’ve never seen it.
David Marjanovićsays
Congratulations to Dania :-) <duck & cover>
These books fill a very deep need for some women that isn’t necessarily good for them, sort of like literary chocolate.
Eh, but, chocolate is good for you. Beyond merely making you happy, it contains flavonoids – red wine without the alcohol, if you know what I mean. And the theobromine is sufficiently poisonous to keep your mouth bacteria down. The dentists are amazed at my teeth, and I only brush them once a day because I can’t fast long between meals…
“Well, ‘often’ is sort of a relative term. Most of the references to this stuff are clearly from groups who’ve just been thinking about it, not making it.”
“And he’s just getting warmed up, if that’s the right phrase to use for something that detonates things at -180[ °]C”
I have to stop here to avoid quoting the whole post. It’s so mind-blowing, I don’t understand why anyone would need LSD for! :-D
Well, I can’t resist quoting this bit:
“But I do note that if you run the structure through SciFinder, it comes out with a most unexpected icon that indicates a commercial supplier. That would be the Hangzhou Sage Chemical Company. They offer it in 100g, 500g, and 1 kilo amounts, which is interesting, because I don’t think a kilo of dioxygen difluoride has ever existed. Someone should call them on this – ask for the free shipping, and if they object, tell them Amazon offers it on this item. Serves ’em right. Morons.”
Hángzhōu, ancient city in China, known for its fine silk and its violently hideous… ROTFLMAO! X-D X-D X-D
BTW, when he says “ever”, he means it.
And from the first comment…
“I would like to order a couple of kilos of FOOF from Hangzhou Sage Chemical just to see the crater on Google Maps.”
but then, fate may well be waiting round the corner with a sock full of sand!
One word: chlorine trifluoride.
B-)
I don’t blame you, I do realize that I’m a bad driver at times. Would you like to hear my excuse?
No. You should have stayed in that place and slept.
One of my literary-minded friends and I had lunch one day while I had a copy of it (despite my snarky attitude I won’t criticise something unless I’ve actually read it) and we took turns passing it back and forth, opening it to random passages, reading them out loud in mock-serious voices – and laughing uproariously.
Reminds me of how The Eye of Argon is said to be traditionally read.
David Marjanovićsays
does moving thousands of miles count? first time was 5600miles (9000km); second time was 1000miles (1500km)
I know someone who flew from France to Mexico nine times to convince a girl to move over to him, just because her beauty had blown him away. Worked (for a few years).
boygeniussays
I just stumbled upon a rather interesting graph mapping distribution of income by religious belief in the U.S.
If by “other” they mean non-believers, then we are remarkably average. Apparently, converting to Hinduism or Judaism may have some material benefit.
negentropyeatersays
People are allowed to do very silly things when they’re in love**, right?
I did San Francisco – Montreal once a month for 8 months to visit the boyfriend who couldn’t get a visa to move with me to the US.
Until I decided I had enough.
I then rented a car in Montreal and put the boyfriend in the trunk and imported him ilegally. We didn’t get caught.
Does that count as very silly thing when you’re in love ?
llewellysays
There are ways to tell, Wowbagger: Is there always two of you just a-hangin’ around? Is every chromosome a hand-me-down?
Thanks Brownian. Even Worse was the first album I ever bought, and for a long time it was my favorite. Haven’t thought of it in a long time though.
WowbaggerOMsays
David Marjanović wrote:
Reminds me of how The Eye of Argon is said to be traditionally read.
Damn you; I found an online copy of that and am now trying very hard not to injure myself laughing at how wretched it is. But you know what? As bad as it is it’s still only marginally less so than the first* Twilight book…
*I only made myself read the one. I got a few pages into the second and a vampire was explaining how he couldn’t believe the Christian god couldn’t exist (and wasn’t his enemy); I gave up then and there.
aratina cage of the OMsays
Did you know that Bill’s name was originally William Shatnerthewoods? You can learn this interesting (puerile) tidbit and more in the year 2000 (contents may not be suitable for adults).
llewellysays
… does moving thousands of miles count? first time was 5600miles (9000km); second time was 1000miles (1500km)
I can’t imagine moving thousands of miles for someone. I can’t imagine flying transnational once a month for someone. I know people do things like this when they are in love, and I suppose, I can’t strictly rule out the possibility that I might. But I can’t imagine a feeling that would inspire me to do that.
Jadehawk, OMsays
I can’t imagine moving thousands of miles for someone. I can’t imagine flying transnational once a month for someone. I know people do things like this when they are in love, and I suppose, I can’t strictly rule out the possibility that I might. But I can’t imagine a feeling that would inspire me to do that.
well, here’s the thing: I like traveling and I like moving to new places. There’s a million things that would have been more difficult for me than moving halfway across the world. Shoot, if I didn’t have a boyfriend, I’d be applying to universities all over the world just for the fuck of it(not that most of them would want me, but possibilities are exciting all by themselves). As it is, I’m only applying to NDSU for now.
I guess it would make more sense to say that not moving on every whim is more in line with the “things I’d do for love” stuff. But it sounds less impressive than moving :-p
MrFiresays
But I can’t imagine a feeling that would inspire me to do that.
In my case: absolute, crawling desperation. But see, it led to me meeting Mrs. Fire later on, so I would do it all again.
Really gets to be a bit tedious trying to answer once more the breathtaking inanity of a DI mendacious intellectual pornographer like Luskin, but I do commend you for your valiant effort.
Oh, Kwok. You might have made a decent ally if not for those glaring personality issues.
Sven DiMilosays
the breathtaking inanity of a DI mendacious intellectual pornographer
where have I heard that bewfore…?
aratina cage of the OMsays
Does that count as very silly thing when you’re in love ?
All I can say is: land of the free my ass.
Sven DiMilosays
– w
+ 1
= 27745
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
The Threadmas eve question, will we get to 28,000 posts by the time Watchman was posted? +1
'Tis Himself, OMsays
Good night friends.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
‘Night ‘Tis.
Sven DiMilosays
Just think: When you wake in the morning, it will be Threadmas Day!
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
When you wake in the morning, it will be Threadmas Day!
And my socks are all folded in the drawer with due care.
In hopes that the poopyhead soon will be there…
Sven DiMilosays
will we get to 28,000 posts by the time Watchman was posted?
The First Post was Posted at 10:28 PM blogtime, so we have just under 24 hours to post about 250 comments…no problem recently. If the Aussies have a few they could do it before I wake up tomorrow. (wait…everybody gets the same EST timestamp as I do, right?)
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
+1
cicelysays
Then, if he tries to claim he is the real Wowbagger, I’ll demand he prove it on the field of battle – that’s right, I’ll challenge him to…a snark-off!
Which snark-off must be recorded, and posted to YouTube.
boygeniussays
I’m going to leave a platter of bacon out for the poopyhead. And a flagon of grog.
I hope he leaves me something nice in my sock. (I don’t wear “stockings”.)
Carliesays
Well, now I’ll post just to add to the total.
Sven DiMilosays
That’s the spirit, bg! Man, you know, if only we could get der Binger to sing our Threadmas carol…
Oh poopyhead,
Oh poopyhead,
We love to give you page hits.
Oh poopyhead,
Oh poopyhead,
We watch you bash Creationists.
All through the day
The snark burns bright
And comments go
All through the night
Oh poopyhead,
Oh poopyhead,
You are the best bloggy scientist.
boygeniussays
der Binger? I always thought it was der Bingle.
boygeniussays
Jadehawk,
That was interesting. Combining the Inspector Gadget theme with Axel F in beatbox format on the flute. Someone’s got too much time on their hands.
Oh. Wait… I resemble that remark.
Carliesays
Joy to the Thread,
New post has come.
Let commenting begin!
While trolls flail sadly
And fundies argue badly
We talk about fun stuff
Rocks, ships and songs and fluff,
And we’ll keep on typing
Sitting on our duff.
boygeniussays
Grandma got run over by a comment
Walking home from our house Threadmas Eve
You may say there’s no such thing as Poopyhead
But as for me and Grandpa, we believe
Thinking about Aquaria’s comments regarding Darcy, I’ve realised there is not one but two Austen-themed shows on during the Fringe: Austen’s Women, a one-woman show about 11 (IIRC) different characters, including Lizzy Bennett; and Austen Found, a musical written from the ‘lost’ writings of Jane Austen. The former I saw on last weekend; the latter I’ll see next weekend.
Really, the only Austen character I’m especially familiar with is Frank Churchill, since I played him in a stage adaptation of Emma.
boygeniussays
This is a poem called Fibonacci
There may be consequences for this kind of behavior.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
8…
(Is this helping increase the thread-count, or is this just some stupid crap? I need to go to bed soon)
Cainesays
Carlie 369:
Whoa – as we celebrate Threadmas, all is not well at the R.D. Corral – Death of the Dawkins forum – The world’s busiest atheist forum closes.
Whoa. Bad news indeed. From your link:
Starting a new discussion will require approval, so we ask that you only submit new discussions that are truly relevant to reason and science. Subsequent responses on the thread will not need approval—however anything off topic or violating the new terms of service will be removed.
Damn. I’ve seen the same shit pulled on other forums I was once part of, it’s always a death knell. What a pity.
boygeniussays
Is this helping increase the thread-count, or is this just some stupid crap?
Yes.
aratina cage of the OMsays
Wow Carlie. No offense to Richard Dawkins who I greatly respect and who I realize had very little role in the mess, but that was a really shitty thing to do to the atheist community. I just can’t believe they actually blocked private messaging, deleted accounts, and hid signatures in a sweeping move to disable organized resistance to the changes.
Mr Tsays
Bad King Poopyhead looked out
On the feast of Threadmas
When the posts lay round about
Deep and weird and endless
Brightly shone the moon that night
Though the frost was cruel
When a poor man came in sight
Writing Christian stool
“Hither, troll, and stand by me
If thou know’st it, telling
Yonder godhead, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?”
“Sire, he lives a good league hence
Underneath the mountain
Right against the forest fence
By Saint Agnes’ fountain.”
“Bring me flesh and bring me wine
Bring me frackin’ crackers
Thou and I will see divine
When we solve these matters.”
Troll and monarch, forth they went
Forth they went together
Thro’ apologetic rants
And the bitter weather.
“Sire, the Thread is darker now
And your point is stronger
Fails my heart, I know not how
I can go no longer.”
“Mark my footsteps, my dumb troll
Tread thou in them boldly
Thou shalt find atheism’s toll
Freeze thy blood less coldly.”
In his master’s steps he trod
Where the squid had printed
None could be the very god
Which the troll had minted.
Therefore, atheists, be sure
Wealth or rank possessing
Ye who now will help the poor
Shall be soon progressing.
+1
boygeniussays
The news about the RD forums is distressing. I’ve heard rumors elsewhere but figured they were just that; rumors. Dawkins needs to go BDFL on their ass and make things right.
strange gods before me ॐsays
Holy fucking Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Now I’m glad I never participated at richarddawkins.net. If they started deleting entire accounts, including thousands of comments by people whose writing I appreciated, I would be fit to be tied.
llewellysays
Whoa – as we celebrate Threadmas, all is not well at the R.D. Corral – Death of the Dawkins forum – The world’s busiest atheist forum closes
Start writing rebuttals for the anti-atheist talking points this event will result in.
Ichthyicsays
I’ve heard rumors elsewhere but figured they were just that; rumors.
I tried going to RDnet around the time “AirFarce Dave Hawkins” was making the rounds there.
It became immediately clear that the mods there were complete asshats.
Haven’t gone back since.
that was what… 3 or 4 years ago?
MrFiresays
Cephalopod bless us, every one!
Now give me my roasted PZ with all the trimmings
Wait – have I got that right?
aratina cage of the OMsays
All I want for Threadmas is peezee’s new book, peezee’s new book, yes peezee’s new book!
(Or a hug will do, a virtual hug for a fanboi even though I know it creeps the poopyhead out when random strangers ask him for hugs.)
Now I’m glad I never participated at richarddawkins.net.
I never posted there, but read for a long time, mostly because of Calilasseia’s awesome takedowns of various creationists. I was familiar with Calilasseia from a couple of other forums, and the posts were always a great read and informative. I hope Rationalia takes off and becomes a good new home for all those displaced so rudely.
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
No. You should have stayed in that place and slept.
But there was no suitable lodging area. :'(
(do you still in tend to kick my stomach in?)
Pygmy Lorissays
If everyone else jumped off of a bridge I would too, so here’s a Threadmas Carol for y’all.
Twelve days of Threadmas
12 Disemvowelings
11 Trolls complaining
10 Tentacled squid
9 Creationist screams
8 Panda trials
7 Deranged Xians
6 Blasphemous posts
5 Turbaconduckens
4 Missing links
3 Fracking crackers
2 Cuttlefish
and a copy of PZ’s long awaited book.
Ichthyicsays
…OK, now I’ve read the story behind the RDF forum.
I’ve never seen such a poor decision by a webmaster (Josh Timonen) that was handled in an even poorer fashion!
Seriously, deleting dissenter accounts, summarily dumping all the mods, lying to the forum participants about how they would have input on the new structure… it just goes on and on.
my jaw is on the ground.
This will financially impact RDF significantly. I find it hard to believe Richard, who often championed the forum himself, had any knowledge of this, but even so… one has to wonder how he could let someone like Josh basically shoot his own foundation in the foot like that.
wow.
WOW.
Kel, OMsays
That book dedication must have went to his head.
strange gods before me ॐsays
If everyone else jumped off of a bridge I would too
Indeed, why not? There’d be a nice squishy pile of bodies to break your fall at that point.
WowbaggerOMsays
Hmm, I think – thanks to Pygmy Loris’s lyrical skills – we’ve got ourselves our first drinking song for the GAC…
Pygmy Lorissays
sgbm,
Indeed, why not? There’d be a nice squishy pile of bodies to break your fall at that point.
ROTFL!
Wowbagger,
Hmm, I think – thanks to Pygmy Loris’s lyrical skills – we’ve got ourselves our first drinking song for the GAC…
*blushes* glad to be of service (curtsies)
Jadehawk, OMsays
But there was no suitable lodging area. :'(
(do you still in tend to kick my stomach in?)
you can hide behind me, after I tell him the story of me driving half the way from Seattle to North Dakota with only one break for a short nap.
Pygmy Lorissays
In defense of GHP and Jadehawk I am going to divulge that I fell asleep at the wheel exactly one time. It was very late, I was less than a mile from home and thought I could make it. I was only asleep for maybe 5 seconds (based on the last thing I remember and where I was when I woke up), but waking up, luckily in my own lane (thank FSM for good wheel alignment and straight roads), was one of the scariest things that ever happened to me. Images of hitting someone else flashed through my mind, and I barely slept for days. That was more than ten years ago and I have pulled over and napped every single time I have felt too tired to continue driving since then no matter how close to home I was.
One other time my friend and I were coming back from a road trip and she fell asleep at the wheel. I didn’t realize she wasn’t awake until we hit the rumble strip on the interstate. That was another very scary experience seeing as how I was trying to both wake her up and control the car from the passenger seat at the same time.
boygeniussays
you can hide behind me, after I tell him the story of me driving half the way from Seattle to North Dakota with only one break for a short nap.
He’ll have to come through me to get to y’all after I disclose that I once drove from Fargo to San Francisco non-stop except for fuel-ups back in ’91.
Twenty six hours of drive time. Oh, the glorious, wonderful powers of youth!*
*not to mention the stupidity and recklessness of doing so in order to get to a concert on time
Rorschachsays
Carlie @ 369,
from the linked blog post :
Josh and Andrew have brought about a PR disaster for Dawkins and his Foundation. Thousands of now-silenced members already announced that they will not be coming back and will no longer donate to the Foundation after this mess. We are left wondering how much Richard Dawkins actually knows about all this
This is a bit hard to believe.It’s clumsy and awkward in a Ladenesque way, if it really happened that way. I can’t imagine Prof Dawkins would be too pleased with Josh at all.
Handing out leaflets at Ringach’s children’s school is stupid, uncouth, and not just a little bit creepy, but it doesn’t amount to “threatening” anyone.
Threats are illegal. The proposed activism is still protected speech under the First Amendment.
Threats are illegal. The proposed activism is still protected speech under the First Amendment.
On second consideration, I apologize for misusing the word the “threaten”.
Waltonsays
I agree with strange gods. As much as I despise the “animal rights” brigade, freedom of speech applies to everyone, not just to people we like.
Possibly, the best test case for a person’s real commitment to free speech is Fred Phelps and his band of deranged homophobes. Since no one (even other evangelical Christians) actually likes Phelps or supports his message, and there is no popularity to be gained from defending his right to protest at funerals, it is only the most courageous and sincere defenders of free speech who will actually stand up for his right to protest.
When the “Respect for America’s Fallen Heroes Act” was put to a vote, which prevented Phelps from protesting at funerals, it was passed overwhelmingly in the House by 408 to 3. There were only three Congressmen who cared about free speech enough to risk unpopularity by opposing the bill: Ron Paul, Barney Frank, and a congressman from Oregon named David Wu. While both Paul and Frank hold plenty of loony beliefs (I don’t know about Wu, since I’d never heard of him before), I respect the fact that they stood up for free speech when no one else would, in a situation where they knew it would be unpopular and politically difficult to do so.
badgersdaughtersays
My mom used to fall asleep at the wheel regularly; she had narcolepsy (fortunately I seem to be out of the woods for it myself). When I was a little girl I remember Mom basically driving us someplace random from time to time. Automatic behavior, it’s called. She actually drove just fine, but I shudder to think what would have happened had some emergency happened while she was in that state. When she woke back up, she would sigh, pull over, and gather herself for a second, then we’d go have ice cream or something.
I have a webmeeting in 15 minutes, drat Dubai and their outlandish time zone….
'Tis Himself, OMsays
Happy Threadmass and many more.
The thing I noticed about Josh Timmons’ takedown of the RDnet forum was this:
Please do not email Richard with complaints, we have discussed this transition thoroughly with him, and he is currently on tour in Australia and New Zealand.
In other words, we’re screwing you and don’t complain to the boss because we did this when he was out of the country.
The Richard Dawkins Foundation may never recover.
Rorschachsays
Oh, happy Threadmas is it ? Time is flying when you have no life, it seems.
Well,I guess they will be fine eventually, but the damage done to the forum, which while a bit tone-concerned at times, was something like Pharyngula’s comment section in the end, a free haven for atheists and freethinkers and all that, is going to be much bigger.
I read that they prevented posters from exchanging contact details, people like us here, who had been gathering there and exchanging thoughts for years and stuff, trying to find a way of staying in contact, now that is fucked up.
I’m very angry at this actually.
SC OMsays
There appears to be a SIMOTI* pandemic.
Is it true that the thousands of posts of users who have been deleted are gone forever? That is awful.
*Someone is Megalomaniacal on the Internet
WowbaggerOMsays
I couldn’t deal with the nested comments and eye-watering graphics at RDF so, apart from occasionally glancing at it, I didn’t spend much time there. But it’s a shame that it’s gone because it was a community.
One of the reasons this is the site I spend 99% of my time on is it that – most of the time at least – it’s just text. I fucking hate coloured emoticons, signatures and avatars!
SC OMsays
I couldn’t deal with the nested comments and eye-watering graphics at RDF so, apart from occasionally glancing at it, I didn’t spend much time there. But it’s a shame that it’s gone because it was a community.
One of the reasons this is the site I spend 99% of my time on is it that – most of the time at least – it’s just text. I fucking hate coloured emoticons, signatures and avatars!
Exactly the same for me. The set-up of a forum just confuses me, too – I don’t know how to find anything. I have a strong personal preference for this arragement. I’m sure that kind of system is structurally more organized, but I prefer to organize things conceptually myself.
SC OMsays
The decision to revamp the forum was made by The Richard Dawkins Foundation. We are looking to make a new discussion area that is easier for people to find quality content related to our mission. We understand that for some of you it was a place to hang out and converse with like minded people but we are not looking to be a social network. There are many other sites that provide this service.
Wow.
This is making me very sad and casting a pall over Threadmas.
Feynmaniacsays
Walton,
Since no one (even other evangelical Christians) actually likes Phelps or supports his message, and there is no popularity to be gained from defending his right to protest at funerals, it is only the most courageous and sincere defenders of free speech who will actually stand up for his right to protest.
Wow, I actually agree with Walton!
Often times when Phelps’ gang shows up people hold counter protests (including having gay people make out in front of them). Other times people just ignore them. There are better ways to deal with them without limiting free speech.
We wish you a merry threadmas
We wish you a merry threadmas
We wish you a merry threadmas
With much bacon and beer
Weird earworms we bring
And Mormons in bling
Weird earworms for threadmas
Why am I still here?
(/Oh bring us some squiddy pudding…)
Antiochus Epiphanessays
I once fell asleep at the wheel for ~35 minutes on 1-70 W in western Kansas.
I also once drove from Cape Town to Johannesburg in a day. The only stops were for fuel and peppersteak pies, and one stop when I totaled a rental car in Bloemfontein and got another one from a nearby airport. Late that night, I also totaled a bunkbed in a backpacker.
MrFiresays
I had been driving for for forty years when I finally fell asleep at the wheel.
I’ll get my coat.
negentropyeatersays
+ 2
negentropyeatersays
told you so
Antiochus Epiphanessays
13…
MrFiresays
Late that night, I also totaled a bunkbed in a backpacker.
Whatever that means, I hope there was awesome sex involved.
negentropyeatersays
11…
Sven DiMilosays
Happy Monkey, Merry Threadmas
although it doesn’t seem to be starting out all that fucking MERRY
(although thanks for the excellent hymnal of Threadmas carols…my one editorial suggestion is that in the 12 days thing, 5 has to be three syllables only to facilitate the optimal drunken-singing situation)
First my spanking new (leased) lenovo&#trade; gets all freezy and then I finally get in for my Am Tubes fix and teh CO’s front page is all about asshole animal rights fuckheads and then the Dawkins-forums thing (*shrug* what Wow and SC sez).
I suppose teh CO ought to be rolling out a black carpet for the cyberhomeless atheists now wandering about in a shellshocked daze who are sure to follow the smell of bacon over here.
And then the whole asleep-at-the-wheel phenom (I’d link that to the excellent Western-Swing band but I’m kind of in a hurry here). I have done many, many crazy night drives (and here if I wasn’t in a hurry I’d link to the guy from Austin via Stillwater whose band is called The Night Drive but whose name I forget at the moment) to get to turtles, shows, gigs, and solitude but I only fell asleep once. Scariest fucking 30 seconds I ever hope to have. About an hour south of Nashville heading north from Birmingham to Lansing, didn’t have a caffeine habit yet, grazed a rock and rolled my Corolla back toward the highway…landed rightside up with a glass-cut on my shoulder and otherwise *shrug* lucky. There are a lot of step drop-offs along that road and I would have just gone sailing out there (25 pts for reference).
Um, OK, gotta go, and this makes um 27826 or so.
I’m not even previewing! If the trademark symbol works it’s pure win!
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
A hundred and eighty more posts or bust.
*looks around for the welcome carpet*
MrFiresays
*looks around for the welcome carpet*
Perhaps PZ took it to the dry cleaners after failing to rinse out all the troll blood.
David Marjanovićsays
Watch out, Cuttlefish! Carlie, Mr T, and Pygmy Loris are coming. :-)
Can’t even warm that shit up to dry-ice acetone. The O-O bond just 2 pm longer than the double bond in O2. Dang, that sounds dangerous.
So… the fluorine atoms are barely bound to the oxygens at all? :-S
wait…everybody gets the same EST timestamp as I do, right?
Yes.
Whoa – as we celebrate Threadmas, all is not well at the R.D. Corral – Death of the Dawkins forum – The world’s busiest atheist forum closes.
From there…
In response to the unanimous criticisms, Josh started playing with the settings in the forum. First he deactivated private messaging. This caused a major problem, as members were starting to share personal details so that they can keep in touch with good friends if the forum really did end up closing. Members also filled their signatures with details and where to find members after the forum had closed. Josh went on to lock viewable access to the forum. For a while, nobody could do anything. With the forum all to themselves, Josh and Andrew deleted any posts that criticised the decision. Next, they removed signatures so that other forums and meeting places could not be advertised. When all of this was done, Josh and Andrew reopened the forum in a read-only state. Nobody could post anymore, and the complaints thread had been completely deleted. They had added the following information to the original announcement:
Evil. Fucking evil. Timonen and Chalkley must be fired right fucking now. It doesn’t impact me personally (I’ve never tried to comment there, I’m spending enough time over here…), but evil is evil.
How is it possible to be that callous? Are they glibertarians, too?
…Also from there…
To make things worse, Josh and Andrew started deleting members. The moderator who explained that the staff were innocent and treated so disrespectfully, Mazille, had his entire account deleted. This isn’t like a ban where you can no longer access the forum. When an account is deleted, all the user’s posts are deleted too. Mazille had thousands of posts that he was hoping to archive over the next 30 days. All gone, forever. They aren’t in a Recycle Bin of sorts. Next was CJ, a member who had been posting on the front page to explain what Josh was up to and that he was hiding the criticisms and the evidence that the moderating team were lied to and censored. Tens of thousands of posts lost forever. Josh and Andrew permanently deleted several users before starting to remove moderating permissions from the loyal staff.
I want to get violent.
The post goes on to wonder how much Dawkins knows about all this.
d’oh!
:-D :-D :-D
(Disclaimer: This was written before I read about the RD forum. Now I can’t laugh anymore. Grrr.)
But there was no suitable lodging area. :'(
Your car…?
you can hide behind me, after I tell him the story of me driving half the way from Seattle to North Dakota with only one break for a short nap.
And a few breaks for eating, drinking, and the like, I suppose…? 1000 km in a day is feasible that way. Did you do 2000? One day and one night?
I once drove from Fargo to San Francisco non-stop except for fuel-ups back in ’91.
Twenty six hours of drive time.
<facepalm>
Not all at once, people! I’m too tired* to kick you all around! At most I might be able to finally accept Jadehawk’s offer from months ago and bite her! :.-(
* Why actually? Am I exhausted because the weather does a 180° turn every half hour today?
It’s clumsy and awkward in a Ladenesque way
<snort>
I think I’ve found the cause (and workaround) for a certain kind of blockquote failure.
No, see my comments in that thread. Bizarrely, it really does seem to depend on the browser used to submit the comment.
“Respect for America’s Fallen Heroes Act”
<snort> Sometime during the first period of Bush the Lesser I said “hero” only means “dead American” anymore. Looks like I’m officially right.
We understand that for some of you it was a place to hang out and converse with like minded people but we are not looking to be a social network. There are many other sites that provide this service.
So… condescending… so… callous…
Evil.
Often times when Phelps’ gang shows up people hold counter protests (including having gay people make out in front of them).
B-)
I once fell asleep at the wheel for ~35 minutes on 1-70 W in western Kansas.
So… the street was so straight and empty and your wheels so perfectly aligned that you survived it? I mean, I’m not actually sure you survived it, but… ;-)
<headshake>
Daniasays
Yay, it’s Threadmas Day! We’ve been stuffing threads for a whole year!
Let’s keep on stuffing. :)
David Marjanovićsays
First my spanking new (leased) lenovo&#trade; gets all freezy
Huh. Mine never does that, nor does my sister’s.
“Trade” isn’t a number; it’s ™ without the #.
Forgot to mention what I ate yesterday… I was invited at my supervisor’s and got a soup with cilantro. Not a Chinese one, and apparently not peppered, yet it tasted like those Chinese soups with a very strong spicy taste that I had attributed to loads of pepper. I took some of the cilantro out and ate it just so. Apparently that’s the taste.
Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who’s both able to taste the “bitter, soapy” component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!! Hahaaaa! <mad-scientist cackling>
negentropyeatersays
hey I also had a soup with cilantro yesterday. It must have been cilantro-soup-day yesterday in France.
It wasn’t chinese either, but thai. A tom yam soup with shrimps, cilantro and lemon grass.
Didn’t notice the “bitter, soapy” component of cilantro but I do like the taste of it.
Silisays
Hmmm – I think it’s possible to sing “Ce-pha-lo-po-des” as “Adeste fideles”, but my Latin is not good enough to follow it up.
What the squid’s got into Timonnen? I thought he was supposed to be one of the good guys. Wanker.
–o–
I used to be very frugal as a kid, while my sister was more spendthrift. Now she drives a hard bargain, while I lurrrve stuff*. I have porcelain that I’m never likely to use much. Ties that I have worn at most once and more shoes than any straight man should have. It’s been a good while since I bought any of it, though. But I’m not exactly living according to my means. Doesn’t help that I decided to begin the month by wasting an inordinate amount on a woman of ill repute.
Never was very charitable, but have given to Donors Choose when encouraged by bloggers**.
–o–
I had a pretty comfortable – even spoilt – childhood, despite the dreadful economy (interest was over 20% for a while and small farming doesn’t exactly pay). I was not really happy at school, though. But not all unhappy either, I guess. Pretty meh.
I was teased a lot for some years. I recall being very upset with the busdriver, but I no longer know exactly what he did to me. But the bus stopped being three by year three, so I must have been less than ten when I insisted my parents write and complain – they didn’t.
Likewise I don’t recall when the teasing began, but I think it was around year five the that I somehow realised that my crying just made it that much more fun to pick on me. After that I guess I hardened myself more. Supposedly I used irony at a younger age than what is supposed to be developmentally possible, so perhaps that explains my increasing sarcasm to use as a shield. When I stopped being fun teasing, I guess I did develop a bit of friendship even with some of the bullies, but I’ve never had close friends.
I was decidedly nerdy and that didn’t diminish with age. By sixth form I’d pretty much isolated myself completely – I’d already stopped going to birthday and class parties before that; I really didn’t like music and dancing and thus I never developed any socialising skills; the county parties/dances were no draw either.
We had a session with a guidance councellor (I think) at some point – my French and Religion teacher (at least I think I had her for Religion as well). She mentioned some time later that she’d paid notice to my reply to the task of drawing social diagrams – not sure why, though. Perhaps I was more perspicacious than I thought. I couldn’t reconstruct it now – I can barely recall people’s names – but I do recall putting myself off to the side with some other nerds; they socialised, though.
I never participated in the graduation ceremony – I just picked up my grade sheet some days later (when I needed it to apply to uni, and school hadn’t sent it to). Nor did I get the traditional hat, nor the commemorative sweatshirt. For some reason I do remember the motive, though: That third year we had a student moved over from another class – I guess he didn’t get along with them. He was pretty much only interested in drawing, so he drew the design. It was a big nest with caricatures of us. I was sitting under the tree, though, hunched over my desk with my big spectacles. Two of the other ‘nerds’ were lowering the third on a fishing line with binoculars to espy what it was I was writing***.
So, yeah, I’ve never had it as bad as some people here, so I’m not exactly in a position to whine.
* I also have a stack of doujinshi from when I got into fandom. Never gonna be able to read them, and the people I intended to share them with have pretty much dropped out of this particular niche of the Internet. And I have lost contact with them. So it goes.
** Speaking of which “Magnificent Math” didn’t gather enough donations and I’ve just had my small contribution returned. Same day as I received a thank-you letter for another project along with a $25 ‘Giving Card’. Pity.
*** Not really fair. Noöne never cheated by getting my answers.
Note the Molly reference AND the beer reference. I firmly believe that a close textual analysis, properly performed, would also confirm a bacon reference.
Daniasays
Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who’s both able to taste the “bitter, soapy” component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!!
That’s weird. I always thought that the only explanation for the existence of cilantro-loving people was that they were unable to taste its “soapy” component (thus not knowing that the stuff they’re ingesting doesn’t taste like food at all).
Antiochus Epiphanessays
21…
(negentropyeater: my sequence can’t be fscked with)
Gyeong Hwa Pak, Pikachu para lang sa iyo.says
Forgot to mention what I ate yesterday… I was invited at my supervisor’s and got a soup with cilantro. Not a Chinese one, and apparently not peppered, yet it tasted like those Chinese soups with a very strong spicy taste that I had attributed to loads of pepper. I took some of the cilantro out and ate it just so. Apparently that’s the taste.
I noticed a post by Rev. BDC on an old Ken Ham post. Turned out our old friend, who helped to start the thread, Roger S, had posted. Drop by and wish him a happy Threadmas.
badgersdaughtersays
I do not mind a pinch of cilantro in Thai and Indian food. I can’t stand it, not a little bit, in Italian and Mexican food. The fact that I can eat any at all is an improvement; I used to gag uncontrollably if I tasted even a little bit.
Am I the only one feeling a bit sad that our favorite geologist isn’t here to celebrate Threadmas with us?
negentropyeatersays
55…
Brownian, OMsays
It’s clumsy and awkward in a Ladenesque way
Okay, what happened here? What did Laden do?
Cilantro, cilantro…an official Threadmas Day food? Along with bacon and lesbians?
In any case, I’m going to have phở with a lesbian for lunch today. If that’s not a tradional Threadmas meal, it should be.
boygeniussays
Browninan, you must tell me where you dine. My favorite place to have phở doesn’t even have lesbians on the menu.
Jadehawk, OMsays
And a few breaks for eating, drinking, and the like, I suppose…? 1000 km in a day is feasible that way. Did you do 2000? One day and one night?
the only breaks were for getting gas. pee-breaks were combined with gas-breaks, and food was eaten while driving. we did the trip in something like 25 hours, and the only longer break was a 2-3 hour nap. I drove most of it, so probably about 1000km.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
Am I the only one feeling a bit sad that our favorite geologist isn’t here to celebrate Threadmas with us?
No, I miss having him around. We’ll have to hoist a toast for him later, to his good health, where ever in the world he may be.
(/*This joke was composed in a moment of whimsy, and is in no way meant to minimize the fact that actually, what Laden did a while back did, in my ever so humble opinion, kinda suck donkey balls.)
Carliesays
Oh Lord, how to sum it up. Brownian, the last neverending thread had a few hundred posts about it. In short, Greg said some nasty things that were really damaging to a person’s reputation, then denied saying them while repeating them over and over, then said no one who posts on Pharyngula should ever care what is said about them anyway because we all suck and insult each other all the time, and then he modified a few comments that didn’t agree with him without noting that they had been changed, and then revealed a poster’s email address and true identity because he was mad at the poster. (He did change it back to the username an hour or so later, but still.)
Watching it all happen in real time was… something else.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
89…
Carliesays
We’ve got to get moving here – there are too many new posts that are sucking up comments and attention! Back to the endless thread, everyone!
Antiochus Epiphanessays
144…
AJ Milnesays
Re #448/449: my apologies, but it didn’t even occur to me Brownian might actually be asking this question in innocence, so much as whimsically referencing the former instance… As in ‘What did Laden do now?’
… however in my defense, I would like to point out that this is a common problem in the land o’ nested snark, otherwise known as the internet. What can ya do…
Nonetheless, this momentary glitch in your steady diet of silly will be over with shortly. And when it is, I would like to continue with my efforts to spread a meme in which Laden is randomly blamed for improbable and/or absurd crimes and/or minor infractions and insults to my person…
…also, just now, when I was trying to pick up a $20 hooker, Laden outbid me.
(/Bastard offered $20 and ten cents.)
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
We need 600 posts to make the 28,000 mark. +1
windysays
How is it possible to be that callous? Are they glibertarians, too?
I can’t help seeing a tiny, tiny bit of irony in this, with the flare-up last year between some of the RD forum moderators and those who posted in the front page comment threads… Seems that Dawkins doesn’t really get the internet drama and has gotten tired of it.
but I didn’t know the forum was so huge, there’s no excuse for shutting the community down so abruptly.
I have made only a few posts in the forum over the years, and I seem to have forgotten my password. Oh well.
Dustsays
Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a ‘bad aditude’ whatever the fuck that is.)
So I’m listening to this right now and will be for about 4 more times. :)
No, it wasn’t an actual Thai soup (in that case I’d have blamed even larger loads of pepper), though probably modeled on them to some extent.
the last neverending thread had a few hundred posts about it
Ha! That was several subthreads ago! :-)
Carliesays
Ha! That was several subthreads ago! :-)
Really? My, how time flies.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
377…
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
I won’t be here when the clock officially ticks over. I’ll be somewhere on the Edens on my way to pick up the Redhead from the opera (Damnation of Faust). I’ll check in when I get back to the exburbs.
boygeniussays
@ 459;
Let me know if it’s none of my damn business, David, but what percentage of your diet consists of soup? :)
Brownian, OMsays
Thanks, Carlie. That’s fucked-up. And I used to have such respect for Greg. Does anyone have links to the thread where this all went down?
Browninan, you must tell me where you dine. My favorite place to have phở doesn’t even have lesbians on the menu.
I bring my own and pay corkage.
Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who’s both able to taste the “bitter, soapy” component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!!
Right up until the age of about 15 or so I could not stand cilantro whatsoever. I remember the soapy taste interacting with my tongue in some unwholesome (and not in the me + five lesbians + bacon kind of unwholesome) way. However, either I cannot taste what I used to taste or my tastebuds have flipped around or something because I love the stuff like a cat loves catnip.
Jadehawk, OMsays
Right up until the age of about 15 or so I could not stand cilantro whatsoever. I remember the soapy taste interacting with my tongue in some unwholesome (and not in the me + five lesbians + bacon kind of unwholesome) way. However, either I cannot taste what I used to taste or my tastebuds have flipped around or something because I love the stuff like a cat loves catnip.
interesting. i had a similar reaction to avocado. first few times I tried it, it tasted like soap, and I decided I didn’t like avocado. now I love me some home-made guacamole.
Brownian, OMsays
Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a ‘bad aditude’ whatever the fuck that is.)
Sorry, Dust. That’s really shitty.
David Marjanovićsays
what percentage of your diet consists of soup? :)
Where I come from, and (relevant here) where my supervisor’s wife comes from*, the biggest meal of the day always starts with a soup. That’s also the case in part of southwestern France, but not in Paris. The cafeteria here only offers soup during winter (and soup that I can eat only 1/3 of that time)… so I just buy some to partially fill in the deficit, and because I basically wouldn’t get any vegetables otherwise.
* She cooks Russian, Thai (with 1/4 of the amount of spices in the recipe… still rather hot), and self-composed like that soup; he cooks mostly Cantonese.
Wow I hate this sign in – why can’t it let me show my own nickname?
Anyway, Happy Threadmass from a lurker out there
Stocking up on popcorn for the next wackjob (sorry, creationist) who ventures into the Pharyngula bearpit,
Tigana
David Marjanovićsays
Actually, I don’t think cilantro tastes soapy. Just hot and weird. But maybe that’s because it’s in a soup; haven’t had any otherwise.
Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a ‘bad aditude’ whatever the fuck that is.)
:-(
I overlooked that the first time.
negentropyeatersays
Do note how PZ has been posting a huge plain-vanilla-thread salvo in a desperate attempt to slow down the endless thread.
But now HaHaa
the thread-stuffing
Pharynguloids
are back in full swing.
boygeniussays
I bring my own and pay corkage.
I’m not gonna sweat the monitor and keyboard, but dammit, do you realize how bad it hurts to snort IPA out your nose?
Jadehawk, OMsays
cilantro? hot?
Jadehawk, OMsays
oh and btw, don’t think I missed the part where you were offering to bite me. I’m just still trying to figure out if it’s worth getting you pissed off more just to get bitten more. it’s a tough choice, you know ;-)
negentropyeatersays
hot ? Cilantro ?
windysays
Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a ‘bad aditude’ whatever the fuck that is.)
Job hunting in the USA always sux but especially these days, and I’m older than Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM (that Crusty Cow [did I get that right?]) so job hunting should be fun!
Does anyone have links to the thread where this all went down?
You’d have to read this thread and then this thread while simultaneouls reading the contemporaneous Endless subThreads (starting, maybe, around here?) to learn everything that was going on. It was complicated, but Laden was a dick.
boygeniussays
What the hell is wrong with NBC? The U.S. hockey team is playing as we speak, and they are running a feckin’ soap opera!
You can watch it live on the website, but you have to download some POS Microsoft player to do so. I refuse. Assholes.
/continues with rant in meatspace
negentropyeatersays
The thread is going at full speed.
I hadn’t refreshed and now I see that Jadehawk came up with (almost exactly) the same comment doubting David’s purported hotness of cilantro just a few minutes before me !
Funny.
AJ Milnesays
Alyssa Milano. Hot.
Silisays
Best of luck, Dust!
(And happy birthday, Jadehawk (I was later than this in congratulating my septuagenarian aunt).)
I’d better get to bed so I can get up late and not go to ‘work’.
Dustsays
Ha Ha! Thanks Windy, I needed that. And thanks David M, too.
Awwhhh, Threadmas…because of this blog I learned about the Watchman movie and went to see it an it became one of my faves. The movie inspired the reading of the graphic novel…and it was great.
And now, I have the time to do it all over again! :)
But first, the rain has stopped and the sun doth shine, time for a bike ride!
SC OMsays
Brownian,
It (the part involving me and Pharyngula at least) began on Laden’s thread “Should just anyone be allowed to piss on Henry Gee’s rug?” (I think that was what Sven meant to link to first). It’s confusing because after I “just went away” from his blog I was commenting here on the Thread and some people were commenting in both places and such.
By the way, your comments on this thread have made me laugh, sympathetically of course.
Sorry to hear that, Dust.
You know what tastes soapy to me? Tilapia. I find it inedible.
Brownian, OMsays
By the way, your comments on this thread have made me laugh, sympathetically of course.
See? Good can come from adversity! What is they say about comedians? To be one all you need is a sports jacket and a bad childhood. ;)
Tilapia?
BLASPHEMER!
I don’t much care for the Asian varieties you can buy around here, but I lived on fried tilapia for half a year when I was in East Africa. Even now when I eat the things people make Sylvester the Cat jokes about me swallowing the fish whole and pulling out only the skeleton. By the way, never try to swallow a fish whole. I once spent a good afternoon at the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology trying to estimate rates of people dying from accidentally swallowing whole fish. I only found three or four cases over at least twice that many years, so stable rates were not forthcoming.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
610…
You know what tastes soapy to me? Detergents. But like David, I like the soapy taste.
blfsays
hey I also had a soup with cilantro yesterday. It must have been cilantro-soup-day yesterday in France.
Not here. In fact, I don’t recall having any soup at all yesterday. To eat, that is; I did buy some interesting-looking organic Tibetaine soup, which, I notice, does contain cilantro. Hum…
Sven DiMilosays
hoo, I did bork those links. (I was proctoring an exam at the time and keeping an eye on stuff while pretending to do important Professorial Work on the computer.)
Actually I had forgotten about the original Henry Gee rug-pissing thread and meant to link to the atheist firing squad post and then to the “private letter” post at Laden’s. But of course SC’s right; it all started before that.
One could probably get the gist from the Thread alone; things got really heavy duty around here(?) iirc
kiyarorusays
Is there a User’s Guide to this thread?
How do you folks follow anything?
How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?
How do you find that recipe for chicken paprikas?
My Hungarian grandmother’s:
kill, gut and pluck chicken
cut into pieces
put pieces in pot of water
simmer for a while
add spices
serve
How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?
There’s a fresh splat on the ground which is rapidly getting larger.
How do you find that recipe for chicken paprikas?
You hit a piece of bacon, bounce back into the air, and are caught by a passing chicken, who says, “Eat me. Here’s a nice recipe.”
Sven DiMilosays
Well, friends, this sucks:
I have been asked ordered by our friendly and competent IT people to leave my computer in my office, on, logged in, and connected to the network all night long tonight so they can get in and futz about with network security or some shit.
I have to leave now to get to my daughter’s drum lesson and this means I will not have computer access until tomorrow morning, which further means I must miss the merry and jovial celebration that is sure to accompany tonight’s successful acquisitions of the 1-year and 28K stumbling blocks milestones of teh Thread.
But since I do not feel like grading, I am quite likely to quaff a draft or 4 tonight anyway, and I will be tacitly toasting you, my fellow Threadizens, the whole time. Maybe I’ll have a bacon-&-egg sandwich for dinner too.
So, have fun, and I’ll be back in the AM to catch up and finish working up the 1-year update and analysis for the IJTS.
Merry Threadmas!
Happy Monkey!
Brownian, OMsays
Alyssa Milano. Hot.
More reminisces from the days of Brownian the Younger: for a multitude of reasons, most stemming from having a violently abusive father who was the opposite of a role model, I wasn’t so interested in typically male activities. I didn’t care for sports and could never be bothered to learn much about cars. Of course, you couldn’t just get away with saying “I don’t like hockey” if you were a boy in Edmonton in the 80s, so you’d fake it: pick some obvious star as your favourite and hope nobody questions you too deeply. So, my favourite hockey player was Wayne Gretzky (natch!) and my favourite car was a Lamborghini. Of course, true auto or sports aficianados have more nuanced favourites which come from having familiarity with the subject, but both of these answers sound reasonable and you don’t have to answer any weird questions about cams and cylinders and hat tricks*.
Now, I didn’t know sports or cars, but I knew girls. So when any guy had a pin-up of some big-breasted blonde ‘bombshell’ like Samantha Fox (or Pamela Anderson for you darn kids), I figured it was a good chance they were pulling the same stunt. I’ve conducted brief surveys, and encountered at least two gay men who’ve admitted to plastering their rooms as adolescents with Sam Fox posters just to avoid that uncomfortable talk with Dad or their friends.
The reason I bring this up is because this hypothesis came to me in a flash at some point in Grade 8 when I noticed one of my fellow students had posters of Alyssa Milano in his locker and I thought it was a very nuanced choice, as if Alyssa Milano were the Shelby Mustang of pin up poster girls for the 80s.
blfsays
I have been asked ordered by our friendly and competent IT people to leave my computer in my office, on, logged in, and…
Logged in? They do not know what they are doing then.
Brownian, OMsays
Is there a User’s Guide to this thread?
Type something. If people like it, that’s good. If people don’t like it, that’s bad. But it may also be good (never just follow the crowd at chow time.
How do you folks follow anything?
On this thread, or in real life? The answer to both, for me at least, is I don’t. But that’s okay.
How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?
Skim. Search for your name. The latter is confounded by people like me that don’t often refer to other posters by name, instead just blockquoting the salient parts of their comments. I’m trying to become more considerate about this, kiyaroru.
Sven DiMilosays
They’re pretty explicit about it:
Your department is scheduled to receive security patches for the University’s transition from Novell to Microsoft Active Directory this evening. Please leave your computer logged on. Be sure that your files are saved and your applications closed before you leave for the day. Your computer will be restarted to complete this process. The automatic screen savers will insure that no one can use your machine in your absence.
[emphasis in original]
*shrug* Me, I hear and obey.
See you-all in the morning.
Nerd of Redhead, OMsays
I don’t get to join in the drinking tonight, due to the need to pick up the Redhead after the opera. The only nice thing is that usually there is very little congestion on the freeways that time of night.
Antiochus Epiphanessays
987…
(987/610 = 1.618032787…getting closer)
SC OMsays
Threadmas without Svanta?!
*POUT*
Brownian, this was when I brought it home, so to speak:
Du bist ein Poopykopf, PZ.
Hmm. Should I feel insulted?
Yes, but he took it back, you know.
So there.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p
ps–I’m not really a thread stuffer, either.
*shakes tentacle at the guy who makes a living from being a ham*
no, it’s not just your sister. none of the stuff I learned from my mom comes with measurements. you just add stuff until it’s right (jokingly called measuring “π razy oko“) :-p
[Ah, so that’s why this comment I tried to post on the last subThread didn’t went through…]
I converted back to 3.5 because of that too, but then I decided to investigate further and found this. I have no idea why the Mozilla Add-ons’ page was not updated. It should be.
Believe it or not, I’ve only recently discovered that, in English, “marmalade” refers to a fruit preserve made from orange and not from quince (that would be quince cheese). It looks like Wikipedia knows where this confusion comes from:
Well, I didn’t know that.
My mom didn’t measure anything, but that’s because she apparently came hardwired with twenty recipes and no storage for any extension packs. My father was a Hungarian engineer, and boy, he could cook like hell. But he never measured anything either; he learned to cook from his mother. I learned to cook from taking home copies of the typescript for Julia Child’s The Way to Cook and practicing at home. I don’t measure anything either, because I can eyeball quantities.
snicker.
PHIL HARTMAN :((((
I wish I could cook. I’ve tried, and I swear, everything has come out like some form of culinary abortion.
A friend of mine is voice actor in Vancouver who puts food on the table and helps support his theatre and other work through voice acting, mostly English overdubs of popular anime series. (If you’re at all a fan of the genre, you’ve likely heard his work.) When he first got into the industry, he was baffled by an invitation to attend a convention. “Who the hell even knows who I am?” he asked a colleague who’d been around much longer than he. “Trust me, my friend, you will be treated like a goddamn rock star,” his friend reassured him. Since then, he’s been sent more phone numbers and nude photos of extremely attractive young women (and likely a few men) than he can count. Fans are indeed a passionate bunch.
That said, I’m glad that these days you’re more likely to be treated as a socially inept doofus if you profess ignorance of Battlestar Galactica than have an opinion on the (extremely disappointing, IMNSHO) series-ending season 4.5.
Badgersdaughter – If you happen to have a good recipe for chicken paprikash, I’d be glad to have it. Exact measurements not required – I know how to estimate.
Brownian:
Total, unadulterated ass, and not in a good way. And the finale? Kara Thrace just disappears into thin air, no explanation? Wretched ending to a show I adored.
π mal Daumen in Vienna.
BTW, you seem to be in a surprisingly good mood for having only slept 7 hours after having stayed up so long. (Either that, or I fail math forever.)
I Grok Spock … and Poopyhead PZ.
Josh OSG, I promise when I get home, I’ll send you two “official” recipes, and the way my dad used to make it, for comparison. It should go without saying, but so often is not, that you should use fresh paprika from Hungary and organic chicken that actually tastes like chicken. (Every time I accompanied him to the grocery store, Dad would go off on “dead green American produce”, “stale red sand from Spain”, and “chickens that taste like they were raised underwater”.)
:-) :-) :-)
We should totally find a picture in which that could be used as a caption.
It can’t be this one because it already means something else, but I think a similar one would do.
Always nice to see and hear Phil Hartman. :)
Oh, do NOT get me started on that damnable season 4.5 of BSG. I mean, these people have been to hell and gone and Ron Moore and co. are all, “Hey, let’s fuck ’em all up even MORE. It’ll be fun! That’ll keep people watching!” In addition to Lee Fucking Adama being a whiny bitch, we were treated to his dad also acting like a drooling, crying, vomiting bitch. Fun, right?
And the less said about “Daybreak,” the better. Essentially, it was a literal deus ex machina. Nearly a year later, and I still hate that shit.
Jadehawk, OM @ 5:
Same here. Neither of my great-grandmothers measured nor did my grandmother. Measuring stuff out feels wrong, that’s probably why I rarely bake.
My measure of how badly it was starting to fall apart: I never did get ’round to watching the last several episodes.
I’d been watching everything in several days to a week delay on PVR, a simple necessity forced upon me by a busy life… And don’t get me wrong, I liked a lot of the series about as much as anything in the medium. It was the only show I was bothering, at the time, to watch systematically at all.
But somehow, as the end crept up, I kept thinking: I’ll get ’round to it. The whole pile of ’em was stacked up in there, anyway…
And I never did. I wasn’t so much consciously thinking ‘I don’t want to watch it end in such a botch, so let’s try to imagine it dying a little more gracefully’… But this is essentially where I wound up. The writing just seemed to keep getting more and more mangled, and I just found myself caring less and less, less and less motivated actually to sit down and get through it all.
I may still watch ’em. I guess. Maybe. And then again, I may not. They’re long deleted from the drive now, of course. I’d have to find the DVD set somewhere.
At this point I should probably mention that I don’t measure what little I can cook. Except that, for 2 portions of rice, I need 1 mug of rice and 2 mugs of water, and making cube soup requires a few eyeballed mm of water above the standing cube.
+ 1
what’s with the prejudice against night owls? I get a regular 7-9 hours of sleep every night, and go to sleep almost at the same time every night (+/-3 hours). It just so happens that I’m most productive in the middle of the night, and most useless before noon.
too fucking true…
approximately 15 steps between bed and workstation ;-)
seconded. shall I insist Walton go back and (re-)read my awesome consumption-as-addiction anecdote/metaphor thingy?
oh yeah, that, too. As much as I whine about my shitty life quality, I’m actually happier than when I had more stuff and consumed more. You’d be surprised how little stuff people need to be happy, and that scarcity of non-necessary things actually makes people happier, at least from my experience. mostly this experience is about food and a sort of voluntary taboo on certain foods except for special occasions: preserving certain foods for special occasions, even though it’s theoretically and financially possible to eat it every day, makes people enjoy it a lot more than if they do actually eat it often.
and I’ve yet to meet a person who’s actually happy with the crap from Walmart; but they keep on going back there, because it’s cheap *facepalm*
most of the stuff I inherited from family are things like scarves and mittens. I have a huge blue scarf my aunt made when she was starting college :-)
well, technology/science in a capitalist society won’t save us, as others have pointed out. because capitalism just doesn’t give a flying fuck about the future; it can’t. and now that the system is slowly falling apart, the future (i.e. basic R&D and targeted development at possible future technologies) is the first casualty.
you’re adorable
mmm…. internet cheesecake….
starbucks will single-handedly drown us in “recycled” paper cups…
it snowed yesterday again. but it’s unseasonably warm for February. it’s 22F; it’s supposed to be -22F :-p
Jimmy Carter put solar panels on the roof of the White House; Ronald Reagan tore them back down. How different history could have been *sigh*
you know, there’s a difference between dignity and honor. Us Neurotypicals don’t work well without the former. It makes us miserable to be treated like scum, you know…
it happens, sometimes. don’t get used to it :-)
This thread fills up at an exponential rate. Without threadiation therapy or topistatica, it will finally ooze out of /pharyngula and spill over in the rest of scienceblogs, and go on in a hungry quest for the whole blogosphere.
Huh. I remembered that they got the episode numbers wrong in that sketch, but I hadn’t noticed before that they used James T. Kirk’s middle name, which didn’t become canon until six years later with The Undiscovered Country. Some SNL writer did their homework.
I envy the people who can wear clothes long enough until they become vintage. I somehow manage to stain them beyond all acceptable wearage within a year or so – the more I like the clothes, the sooner they become unwearable. :(
negentropyeater,
From the previous incarnation–regarding transformation away from a growth-based economy.
It is not just capitalist economies that have difficulty getting by without growth. China (which one could argue is quasi-capitalist) requires an 8.5% growth rate just to maintain its current unemployment rate.
Basically, there has been no human economy that has dealt well with a lack of economic and/or population growth. In the middle ages, the result was initially famine followed by feudalism.
However, I would contend that it is not impossible. Rosenfeld’s law has unfolded without any intervention or active encouragement. It ought to be possible to accelerate the savings. And again, the remarkable thing is not the percent a year, but rather that the trend has sustained itself for so long.
I would also contend that advances in technology can produce economic growth without increasing resource consumption, and that while material goods are necessary, they are not the only measure of economic activity.
I don’t think it is hopeless. I do think humans as a species are too stupid to work it out, though.
Well, I have some things that I like that are from Walmart and that were extremely good values. A 4-inch memory foam mattress topper for my spare bed, an assortment of mugs for coffee and tea, a french press for coffee, frozen shrimp, T-shirts to make crafty messes on, a replacement showerhead.
But I have other things I’m not so crazy about. I once bought a sheet set from another store and then saw the same set at Wal-mart, so I bought it there intending to return the first set. When I got them side-by-side, it was very obvious that the Wal-mart set was MUCH crappier than the non-Wal-mart set. Packaged the same way, everything, except that down in very tiny print in the corner of the back label of the Wal-mart set was “Made for Wal-Mart.”
Yes, it is 100% true that many manufacturers make a cheaper version of their products so Wal-mart can foist it off on the unsuspecting as the full-quality version.
I should add that there’s probably an afternoon nap in my future, if only because the +/-3 at the top of that post should have been +/-1.5… though +/-2 is probably more realistic, and if I can, do try to get 9-10 hours of sleep (because then I don’t need an afternoon nap :-p )
What I do is watch “Revelations” right up to the point where they fade to black, and then selectively skip around the actual finale, ignoring the dumbshit that I find stupid. I pretend that most of season 4.5 simply didn’t happen.
I tend to avoid Walmart due to their predatory actions in small towns. Last time I was in one was when I was replacing our microwave, which finally gave up the ghost after 28 years of service. Walmart was the only place carrying the highly rated desired replacement by Consumer Reports. That was over a year ago.
Don’t remind me. <facepalm>
Really, Fearless Flightsuit wasn’t needed at all. It was already known what a seriously stupid president behaves like. <shakes fist at FSM>
Sure, but, in an age when there’s simply not enough work for everyone, it no longer makes sense to be ashamed of being unemployed. That’s what I mean.
Sort of the opposite of the German proverb “the situation is hopeless but not serious”.
And before they introduced that largely capitalist economy, they had the Great Leap Forward Off The Cliff, and tens of millions of people starved. That’s even worse than needing 8.5 % growth per year.
How about obscure, almost decade-old anime whose only purpose was to sell a stupid toy?
(I promise I won’t send him any nude photos.)
Hehehe, PZ channeling Shatner:
“You’ve turned an enjoyable little blog, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!”
90 % of my social life is a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME…? I don’t quite think so. :-)
[I am cross-posting this with the TetZoo, both because it’s interesting, and because there may be some problem with commenting there; I’m not sure.]
The first comment on the other thread that went missing was from someone from Sweden, which included a link to an image of a babirusa skull at the Gothenburg Museum of Natural History (G
the point is less shame, and more that being useless makes people miserable. People who are unemployed (or retired, for that matter) but feel useful in some other way (parenting, volunteering, even gardening) don’t generally suffer the same loss of dignity that people who simply don’t have that.
so, more equitable spread of the work that exists would be better than having one part of the population severely overworked, and another feeling useless, i.e. what we have now and what can only get worse.
Windy @34
TvTropes is a colossal waste of time, this thread is a long and interesting discourse on many subjects of COLOSSAL intellectual interest Long may it continue
Sili: your printer problem was a classic “Dagens I-landsproblem”. [in swedish]
I’ve been scratching my head wondering whether trying to make potatoes and tofu tasty counts as not getting a life, or perhaps, by Pharyngula standards, as getting a life. I just dunno.
(But at least Blake’s here displaying his knowledge of Star Trek episode numbers, so I don’t feel too bad.)
—
Paul’s (possibly-sweet) potatoes with asafetida and cumin
(This is good with sweet potatoes, too, just different. And sweeter. You may need to go to an Indian grocery for asafetida powder, which is actually more gum arabic than asafetida. Straight asafetida in a block is stronger and I don’t know the right dosage.)
Ingredients
1 lb red potatoes, sliced into 1/4″ slices and cut into pieces 1 sq. inch or a bit smaller (maybe 1″ the longer way).
6 to 8 oz. diced tomatoes (or half a 14 oz can)
3 or 4 cloves garlic, minced or pressed
1 tablespoon Paul’s double-spiced niter kebbeh (Ethiopian spiced butter)
1/2 tablespoon red pepper sesame oil
3/4 tsp ground cumin
1/2 tsp cayenne pepper
1/2 tsp asafetida (a.k.a. asafoetida) powder
1/4 tsp salt
1 oz or so water
Directions
1. Heat niter kibbeh and red pepper sesame oil in a big skillet (until spitting when you drop droplets of water in)
2. Add asafetida and cumin, cook 20 seconds, stirring; don’t burn. (The asafetida will smell like musky, fetid ass—they’re not kidding about the “fetid” part—but that’s okay. It will end up tasting good.)
3. Add a little water (about 1 oz.?), stir.
4. Add potatoes and garlic, stir.
5. Cover and cook a while (10 min?) over low heat, to steam potatoes.
6. Uncover and saute a while, cooking off water and sauteing potatoes over higher heat until about as tender as you like them (not falling apart) and browned a bit.
7. Add tomatoes and salt.
8. Cover and cook on low heat a while, stirring occasionally.
Serve as a side dish, maybe with a dollop of sour cream, or garnished with something.
And on a linguistic note, I infer that “hjort” is cognate with the English “hart”, just as “svin” is cognate with the English “swine”.
=======
Oh! Speaking of printers,
Why I Believe Printers Were Sent From Hell To Make Us Miserable
I have never bought a colour inkjet printer, and I don’t think I ever will. Monochrome laser printers have their own foibles, but at least avoid the absurd refusal to print black when one of the colour cartridges is empty.
/bigotry
+1
Ah, Shatner vidz, is it????
bwahahahahahahahahaha
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7258896287489458266&hl=en#
I dunno. Here’s his IMDB page. I was never much into anime.
Okay, back to ‘work’, which I consider a waste of time beyond the fact that my engaging in it allows me to pay rent, purchase alcohol, and other necessities.
Japan has been dealing with it for about 15 years. The only way they’ve managed so far was thanks to an explosion of government debt, which they could sustain thanks to their large current account surpluses (they didn’t require foreign financing). But this won’t obviously work on a global scale. We’ve now seen the begining of the explosion of Government debt for most developped nations, and already now, the competition for financing is such that the weakest nations are already on the verge of bankruptcy (cf Greece and Dubaï). The growing risk of a cascading sovereign debt crisis is now on everyone’s mind.
The US and other western nations also dealt with zero growth for two decades after 1929. With the consequences we know.
I doubt it will be possible with the current model of unfettered finance-led capitalism. It will require a great deal of government intervention, regulation and planning. This will slow economic growth. Seeing what came out of Copenhaguen, I doubt we’re taking that route. Countries are back in the race to achieve the fastest economic growth possible (for how long?).
Stimulating consumption from credit at all cost is back in the saddle like before the crisis. We have no other recipie.
Maybe it’s possible, but it hasn’t been the case for the last few centuries. I think there is something fundamentally flawed with any socio-economic system that has at its basis property rights and an incessant drive towards competition.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7258896287489458266&hl=en#docid=-4487108880480995121
(A snap from the recent BBC Triffids remake, for any Izzard fans passing by:)
by request (of the previous vid):
then
Eddie Izzard is in a Day of the Triffids remake? Cool! Want!
turnaround: fair play?
@45: that’s a classic
OK, just one more…on the “advice from Shatner” tip:
Share and Enjoy – Real Science
There is a science called Taphonomy. It studies the kind of thing where you say, “I can see that’s important but I never knew there was a science about it”. (I am, of course, excluding David M because paleontologists know a lot about it.)
Wiki gives a reasonable definition:
.
Martin Brazeau is a postdoctoral fellow at the Museum für Naturkunde (Museum of Natural History) Berlin, Germany. He has a blog called The Lancelet which is subtitled, “Stuff about palaeontology, systematics, general biology, and whatever I feel like ranting about when it comes to news, politics, pop culture, or whatever else.”
(Looks like it’s worth going back to occasionally)
He has recently put up an interesting summary of some recent work published in Nature (and hence behind a paywall):
http://lancelet.blogspot.com/2010/02/rotting-tree-of-life.html
He starts off by introducing Taphonomy:
He talks particularly about*:
Sansom, R.S., Gabbott, S.E., and Purnell. M.A.2010. Non-random decay of chordate characters causes bias in fossil interpretation. Nature 463:797-800
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7282/full/nature08745.html#B1 (Abstract)
What Sansom et al. did reminds me a bit of some of the recipes on The Thread. He let larval lamprey and lancelets rot in buckets of sea water and recorded the progress of the decay over the period of several months. (Recipe instrction: Take a bucket of well-rotted lamprey …) As the animals decayed the amount of soft tissue left and able to be fossilised decreased (and the atmosphere in the laboratory changed, I presume).
Sansom et al. recorded the effect of decay on those types of characters that would be used to score an organism for a phylogenetic analysis. The blog post and the Nature paper gives details but the level of decay and removal of these characters would lead one to think that the taxon was signicantly more distantly related to the vertebrates, much like the early chordates we find in the Cambrian.
It is interesting that in previous incarnations of the thread [Geological] Josh had to introduce Alan Clarke and RogerS to the science of Taphonomy because they apparently had never considered the implications of preservation (or otherwise) of body features during fossilisation. Such studies bring fascination to real scientists. There seems to be little consideration of such observations in YEC thinking.
* He also includes another reference without discussing it in his comments:
Briggs, D.E.G. 2010. Palaeontology: Decay distorts ancestry. Nature 463:741-743
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v402/n6761/full/402518a0.html (Abstract)
Nerd of Redhead, OM @ 31:
^This. There was a regular size Walmart in Bismarck for years. I didn’t shop there, but it did plenty of business and took enough business away from local shops as it was. Then they decided to super-size. Built the new super-sized, ginormous wallyland. All of a sudden, Target decided it had to super-size. Local shops? What are those?
It’s way too much store. Way too much crap. No one needs that much store.
I’ve been thinking about triffid guns for weeks.
I had trouble understanding the nagging codriver, but I immediately noticed the Danish channel on the surfing.
Nor I, actually. I do have way too many manga, though.
Never heard of him. And only of a few bits of his work.
‘Tis, I still don’t know what to do with that hot oil.
But the auberges where yummy nonetheless, if a bit dry – prolly due to the lack of oil. And I used too little tomatosauce, I think.
That sketch always pissed me off for several:
Been with a woman? Right, Bill, because women are all in unatheletic men with more brains than looks! At least when you’re jerking off to fantasies involving Leather-clad Klingon women or Green Orion sex slaves, your hand doesn’t say “Ewwwww, like, get away from me you nerd!”
(Yes, I’m bitter. I have the fucking right to be!)
As for “getting a life.’ We have one Billy… putting money in your overacting pockets and keeping you in toupees and girdles! Or would you rather see that swag go to Patrick Stewart, ungrateful asshole?
What? That sumbitch told me he was famous and could make me a star if only I did what he asked me to, and then he…and then he…it was horrible.
so apparently I now have so many bookmarks, Firefox has banned me from adding more. I shall have to do some cleaning, methinks
*embarrassed*
I must protest, Captain. I am not a Merry Man!
Easy on the girdle cracks, Akira. Some of us have noticed our physiques becoming distinctly more Shatner-esqe as we age.
???
I suppose nobody will stand with me and admit a fondness for (or even knowledge of) the latest season Heroes.
I like Dexter too, if that gives me back cool points.
Parenting in the electronic age:
“No, you don’t get any more Internet until you finish what’s already on your browser. And don’t look at me like that; I don’t care how many gigabytes your friends are downloading. If they all farked off a bridgeserver, would you too?”
Not me. I don’t know much about TV. That’s one of the things I don’t waste money on.
For my part, I suppose there are a few other lady commenters here (and also a few gentlemen) who will stand with me and admit a fondness for, and even a knowledge of, men with more brains than looks. Brains, you see, are their own type of “looks.” Good-looking men with no brains are like chocolate made from shit.
#60
… That IMDB made me pop a boner. And 95% of english dub-overs on anime want me want to punch the voice actors.
He’s in on Gundam. That alone is enormous enough, but there’s some pretty large shows on there.
I’ll have one brain-filled hunk please!
Well an intellegent good looking man is still useless if he’s douche/jerk.
You didn’t know this?
http://gammasquad.uproxx.com/2009/12/clips-and-photos-from-bbcs-day-of-the-triffids
(Image up above is from here, which has a mini-review.
I haven’t seen it myself; I just thought the “Cake or death?” stuff would amuse.
Ahem, well, yes, um, that was the flaw in my latest model, and, um, I had to obsolete it, and, um, and I’m back to the drawing board again.
BRING ME MORE BRAAAAINS!!!
Just the kind of looks that don’t show up across a crowded room, a popular dance club, a large lecture hall, etc. That’s about as reassuring as being told you have a “nice personality.” I mean, if she’s giving you a chance to showcase your brains, you’re already halfway there.
Perhaps if we could just encourage every woman in the world to actually talk to us before writing us off, Akira and I could take solace in that fact.
(I’m only half-kidding, as I know women with more brains than looks often feel the same way, and I’m all too quickly bored with brainless girls, but it would be nice to be that person with brains, a personality, and looks that make perfect strangers undress you with their eyes. Nowadays, if I want women to talk about my looks or my body, I have to resort to snatching purses in full view of multiple witnesses.)
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/static/dowbrigade/BRAINsand.jpg
If I wanted fried brains, I would have stuck with the boyfriend before the last one, Pikachu. :)
But fresh good brains are usually still in their protective shell. So we’ll need to settle for jello.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c85/tejons/brain.jp
If you missed it, homeopathy took a hit in the UK. Quackometer reports this is The Bleakest Day for Homeopathy. It is recommended that the NHS cut off all funding of those placebo treatments.
Read the report.
Wow. That’s awesome, Free Lunch.
Ooh, if true, a very good idea.
#75
It may be recommended….but,will they do it?
Sorry, I got a lot of baaaaaad, self-esteem-destroying memories left over from middle school through college that years of therapy are yet to mitigate.
Don’t apologize for feeling pain when you’re hurt, Akira.
There’s always the intertubes.
One of the nice things about the Internet is that you can actually talk to people and get to know them (and their brains) before knowing how they look like.
I went to the same school from K through Grade 6. A combination of genes and various stages of puberty caused me to become rather ‘portly’ toward the latter, but the friends I’d grown up with never saw the need to comment. On my first day arriving at a new school in Grade 7 I was christened the “fat kid from the shitty part of town”, to my surprise. I think I’ve managed to take most of those experiences in stride (I’m super fucked-up in other ways, though, so cheers!), but I know more than a few people for whom middle and high school were living hells they’re not comfortable talking about with anyone other than a professional psychologist, psychiatrist, or counsellor.
I’m sorry to hear your experiences were like theirs, Akira.
Completely the wrong reaction. Instead, submit a bug report.
Or what windy said…
Heh, in the 4 years of hell others refer to as “high school,” I was told that I that I couldn’t get a $2 whore to fuck me even if I paid her $2 million. This observation was confirmed by the reaction most females gave me which ranged from cold indifference to utter disgust. I didn’t date anyone until I was in my mid-twenties and the ONE relationship I had ended in tears… my own. Now I’m 35 and I’m looking forward to a life of sexless misery as my body continues to get fatter and uglier (well, more so than it was back then).
Here to hopin’ that death comes soon.
Free Lunch @75: Thanks for the link. Great article. I especially liked this:
An example of insurance not paying of naturopathic services, even in naturopath-friendly Utah:
Here’s an example of what you can pay for with your own hard-earned money, should you be so gullible:
Akira MacKenzie | February 22, 2010 3:33 PM:
Apparent self-confidence is a primary factor in mate selection. A certain amount of social interaction functions to destroy self-confidence in those who would otherwise compete for desirable mates. That’s what this clip does. It contains themes which come from the intellectually dishonest, vile, and entirely irredeemable methods people use to destroy the self-confidence of those they perceive to be smarter.
Dania | February 22, 2010 4:51 PM:
That’s nice, but the confidence-destroying strategy is a neat end-run around such things; it ensures some people will never have the confidence to act, regardless of the potential of online social connections.
For those that follow the TetZoo:
There is nothing wrong at the TetZoo.
I am not at liberty to say more.
*looks mysterious, steps back into shadows and disappears*
Don’t be so pessimistic. Sexual attraction is only one part of a relationship. There is also emotional attraction.
If it’s any consolation, at least you didn’t spend high school trying to date girls in an attempt to make yourself straight.
~:-| Bizarre. Obviously I know about Lucy in the Sgäää with Dääämonds because of its significance in the history of science (it was played at the Society of Vertebrate Paleontology meeting in September when a cast of Lucy was auctioned), and I even know who William Shatner is, but… is it supposed to make sense? Is it supposed to be funny? I don’t get any such impression. Please explain.
Fortunately I watched the talk about this at the abovementioned SVP meeting, so I can ignore the paywall and the fact that the National (!) Natural History Museum can’t pay for online access…
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
IE doesn’t give me any such problems. The problem I have is that the list is too long to find anything! I started long ago to put some order into it (created a few subfolders), but that has had very little effect so far.
Or on the Internet.
Or both…
That would be me. From h.s. (aka Hell) through college, I tried to date women in a vain attempt to convince myself I was not at all attracted to any number of guys on campus. ‘Twas sad.
Apologies for barging in and trying to introduce a new topic here – I’ve been reading about this new energy company called Bloom Energy that is making news all day. I searched scienceblogs.com and there’s no blog about this at all!
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/02/22/1915250
The homeopathy report thingy had a spot om the BBC 10 o’clock news tonight. There was a (very short) interview with a woo-doctor as well for ‘balance’, but overall, it was pretty good.
Llewelly… that is great talk there, about why kids (people) try to destroy the self-confidence of other kids (people). I needed to hear that. It put a puzzle piece in place for me that’s always been missing.
Even when I was a kid, I refused to see relationships as that sort of zero-sum game, and I lost, badly. I have had relationships, but I’ve been taken advantage of, badly. Next relationship, well, that’s going to be better, because I know what went wrong.
Akira, none of us is undeserving of love. None of us. Don’t sit there and shake your head. Love is a natural part of life. Yes, it is.
I’ve been saying Audrey Hepburn’s wonderful quote to myself quite a lot lately… “I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls.” To my surprise, it’s true. I went to a bar last weekend, something I never do, and since I had just come from a wonderful opera, I felt wonderful. I smiled, and felt it, and sat by myself, and looked around, and smiled, and attracted people, which is something I never do. I’m a corporate trainer, and I am popular at work, and that is something I’ve never been. It’s weird. This is what my teenage years were supposed to have been like, I think.
It’s not making any news.
And it can’t. Where is the methane supposed to come from? Natural gas? That would defeat most of the entire purpose…
I can relate. There were such extreme (evangelical) pressures in my high school days for the boys to be straight. So I bought into it the idea that my gayness is “just a phase”. I passed up the hot captain of the football team (who was openly gay)for an evangelical christian girl (who otherwise is a smart and talented young lady if it weren’t for the fact that she believes in *gaks* creationism).
The Bloom energy machine underwhelms me, unless I’m missing something. It needs a source of methane/hydrocarbons (where from?), and at 800,000 USD, isn’t exactly cheap.
A more critical take on the Bloom Box:
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/22/cbs-runs-free-ad-for.html
My dad sunk a lot of money into fuel cell startups, only to get discouraged when they didn’t pan out. I’m adopting a wait-and-see attitude on this one as well, though it does look more promising, and I’ll be the first one to cheer and dance if it actually amounts to anything.
Roger @ 92:
Hey, at least you didn’t marry, father a buncha kids then come out of the closet 10 to 15 years later. Several of my friends did that, and it’s a tailor-made mess. Most people have better sense these days, but it still happens.
If you read the news and watch the videos on cbs news’ website, you will understand that the purpose of this fuel cell is to offer a very efficient conversion of fuel into electricity.
But perhaps I misunderstood you…what purpose did you have in mind that using natural gas would defeat?
Sure, and I agree (and let’s be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway? I mean, I like to go dancing every once in a while but “Nice outfit!” “What?” “I said, ‘NICE OUTFIT!'” “WHAT?!”-types of conversations aren’t really my thing), but there’s a world of difference between spending time online because you enjoy the company of the people you find there and like the medium of communication or the topics being discussed and feeling you have no choice but to interact online because you aren’t considered attractive or are socially awkward in meatspace.
I’m being a little disingenuous here because the reality is that I am an incredibly social individual for whom there are only a few situations in which I would feel uncomfortable, but it’s hard to pretend away the sting of having been marginalised because I liked science, or science fiction, or thought some of the ideas in that last math class were really interesting, or just couldn’t give a flying fuck what Jari Kurri’s record that year was, or whatever. I’ve also undertaken some pretty severe social experimentation to become so social: I once got a job as a busboy in a popular, ‘hip’ restaurant and made the commitment to act like a ‘player’ from the get go and hit on every single female working there as a way to rid myself of some shyness, and I’ve mentioned before that one of the reasons I incorporate a lot of profanity in my speech is I’ve learned that of a) “Hey, did you hear they discovered a new planet?” and b) “Hey, did you hear–OH MY FUCKING GOD DID YOU SEE THAT FUCKING CHECK WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THAT GODDAMN FUCKING REF?!–they discovered a new planet?”, b) is more likely not to get you called an ‘egghead’ who ‘must read the dictionary for fun.’
So, yeah, there are a lot more opportunities for socialising today for those less confident or less mainstream thanks to the internet and the growing acceptance of geeks or nerds, but most people would rather not be fat than be told “Hey, a small contingent of people like fatties.”
That’s brutal Akira. I am sorry to hear this. I’ve also had relationships* that resulted in tears (and near-half decades of CBT and antidepressants), and know there’s little to say other than you’re not alone and keep at that therapy, as much as possible. Weak tea I know, but it’s all I’ve got. Oh, and that at some point, at some time, with the right combination of therapy and therapist, it does get better. I still have my good days and my bad days, and I honestly cannot understand what the hell I’m supposed to do with the 30 or 40 years I’ve got left, but once in awhile that little glimmer of joy from being alive I used to get before I felt beaten down resurfaces, and that’s a helluva something sometimes.
*Jilted twice, by the same woman, in the same way, nearly a decade apart. Who says smart people learn?
Sure. And I happen to be somewhat familiar with the confidence-destroying strategy you mention, having been on the receiving end of some of it for some time. I wasn’t ugly and the girls who tried to bully me weren’t exactly brainless. It’s just that they were prettier and more confident than me, while I was smarter but shyer than them. I still haven’t understood why they targeted me. I never gave them a reason.
I’m just glad I had real friends at the time who helped me dealing with it all, or I’m sure I would have come out of it with a pretty low self-esteem. I was lucky. :/
I sure as hell am not going to get over being a girl geek, even though I can do my makeup and hair, wear perfume, sing, flatter, cook, sew, and fuck as well as the best of them. If my future mate can’t dig the fact that I think, and that I care passionately about what I think, and that I care passionately about everything else in my life, he’s going to be in for a surprise.
Owlmirror | February 22, 2010 5:18 PM:
OH NO! Owlmirror has been RECRUITED!!
Darren Naish has used a horrible combination of bribery, blackmail and MIND-CONTROL to manipulate the helpless and formerly innocent Owlmirror into concealing the TRUTH about the skulls of strange-tusked aliens!
Darren … if you are reading this … I hope your new job at Area 51 pays well!!!! And I hope for your sake they provide strong pills so you can sleep at night.
Well, for what it’s worth, this sketch always seriously cracked me up.
It’s the whole setup that leads to the rant, the whole way they put you in Shatner’s head, in that situation…
I sympathize, y’know? I mean, not happening to be an actor in a cult show that engendered that kind of downright obsessive following, I can’t know what that’d be like…
But damn, just imagine it. You’re already having a bad day. Hair plugs givin’ you a rash, toupee gets sucked off by a rogue Roomba, whatever… And then you walk into this place, and these people are asking you these bizarre questions like they actually care… Like maybe even you should…
And it hits you: you just don’t. Not in the least. And why the fuck are you even standing there? Sure, you already pocketed the speaking fee, and the emcee is gonna be seriously pissed… But c’mon… What is this? Some kinda nasty, huge practical joke they’re all playing on you? It strikes you, all of a sudden, as things sometimes do, the whole situation is slightly insane…
And these people even alarm you a little. It plays out so well… I love the text–it doesn’t even read so much as nasty as just from the heart: look, get help, you guys, this can’t be normal. I don’t so much read the ‘Have you ever kissed a girl?’ bit as implying so much nastily he can’t get one, either, as more there’s something mebbe rather wrong that he’s not even trying real hard… In the whole context, y’know, it’s ‘what the fuck are you people even doing here, anyway?’…
Granted, not being myself terribly affectionate about Star Trek, mebbe this helps… For the record, I do self-identify–mostly–as a geek. And my geek score tests are great, despite my not so much liking the Trek, and generally flunking out on those bits.
(/Anyway, just sayin’: funny, dammit. And while I guess it doesn’t surprise me some folk got a bit bent about it, c’mon… Still funny.)
Good for you, badgersdaughter!
While I’ve wished I had a better time back in high school, all in all I can’t complain too much, and high school for me was quite stressful. Grade 11 alone included a year’s worth of court appearances for a crime I didn’t commit and three months spent having half of the school after me for being a ‘racist’ (I called some yank wannabe a ‘wigger’), which led to me being jumped by three or four guys at nearly every school function (each incidence of which the school beat cop dutifully detailed to the prosecution for my case as evidence of my ‘violent nature’ or some such thin blue line bullshit.) But I had a lot of fun, too. Thank the FSM I’m plucky, or maybe delusional and bipolar.
Nonetheless, I pity those whose lives peak in high school, and congratulate those for whom each year gets better. Excelsior!
Exactly. That’s what happened to me in secondary school. And the only reason it didn’t affect me much was that, as I said, I had friends who would agree that the some of the ideas in the last math/chemistry/biology/philosophy/whatever class were really interesting. They were also more confident than me, which helps a lot. They taught me that being “cool” and being a “nerd” do not need to be mutually exclusive.
Dania, you and I were at the bottom of the pecking order because the pecking hurt so much and we didn’t know how to dissemble. Possibly because the pecking hurt us more than it did others. They don’t know why they targeted you. They’ll never know. It’s, like, an ape thing.
I remember the time I got stuck in the back of English class with half the varsity football team, and they discovered the thing I was most confident about at the time–my writing skills. Man, did they think I was nerd cool. But it would have been too much for their teenage egos to actually ask me out. :)
SC, from the last thread:
Maybe. I’m thinking of volunteering at the Citizens’ Advice Bureau over the summer (I have friends who already do this).
I don’t have any difficulty appreciating that. No one but the most deluded believes that capitalism is some sort of magic force for good. If corporations can use the coercive power of government to entrench their own position, then they will – and they do. I thought you realised that I was aware of this, since I am an outspoken critic of, inter alia, farm subsidies and protectionist measures, which are promoted by Western agri-business for their own interests and which impoverish people in the developing world. No one thinks that corporations are angels; that’s a strawman conception of libertarianism.
But I can’t change any of these things. On the other hand, detained refugees are a different matter: my own national government is depriving them of their civil liberties, and that’s something I feel morally bound to fight against using the means at my disposal. Unlike the global economy, it’s something that is, to some extent, within the scope of my influence as a citizen, as a (future) lawyer and as an activist.
As I understand it (though I’m not an expert in these matters), libertarian theory does not rest on the assumption that corporations are interested in anything other than profit. Libertarians accept that the primary purpose of a corporation is to deliver a profit to its investors, and that it will do whatever is in its power to maximise that profit. But because of the effect of the “invisible hand” of the market, this does – in theory, and sometimes in practice – lead to effects which maximise efficiency and productivity. Libertarian theory, as I understand it, rests on the (relatively well-founded) assumption that many human beings are motivated primarily by self-interest, and that they will be more efficient and productive if they derive direct financial reward from producing goods and services that they can sell to people.
Of course, its major downside – as I have acknowledged – is the ever-expanding consumption of resources, and consequent environmental cost. And I agree with you that this is a very serious threat, and something which the free market cannot possibly handle. But I don’t think that’s an argument for getting rid of capitalism altogether, merely for using government regulation to conserve environmental resources.
It’s possible, of course, that this is an overly optimistic view on my part. Any government is to some extent influenced by dominant financial interests, and when those interests want to consume more resources in order to make more profit, it could be argued that government regulation will tend to serve the interests of the largest corporations rather than those of society or the environment. But I have hope that this can be tempered by a certain amount of activism, on the part of those of us who know and care, against iniquitous government policies (like Western farm subsidies and tariffs) which help the wealthy and hurt the poor. And I think there are ways in which government regulation, within a capitalist economic framework, can effectively conserve resources: look at the success of the system of transferable fishing quotas in Iceland, for example.
I’m going to ignore the ongoing discussion about high school and relationships. It’s a depressing subject for me, and I vent about my problems far too much anyway (I have a self-confessed tendency towards narcissism).
Anyway, I’m actually in a really good mood right now, having had a very productive day. :-)
My greatest shame is how I treated the kids ‘below’ me in the pecking order when I was at my most vulnerable in middle school. What was especially hurtful, I think, was that I’d naturally befriended a lot of the nerdy or unpopular or weird kids, but the moment the ‘cool’ kids started to pick on me all over again for my association with them I would turn on them mercilessly.
Thank the FSM I grew out of that terrible insecurity by high school, and I’m not going to beat myself up for not having the courage to stand up for others at that time in my life, but there are a few people I really owe apologies to.
One of the reasons I think I became a hunter-gatherer romanticist in uni was I was fascinated by groups of people who had social behaviours that appeared specifically designed to reduce hierarchies.
Insulting the meat, anyone?
Fair enough.
Congrats! Ride that wave!
Hey all – check out #scienceconfessions at Twitter. Some really good stuff in there. People are tweeting their most special science moments.
(Twitternoobs – just to go twitter.com, and type #scienceconfessions in the search box – for some reason it won’t let me link there correctly)
Getting away from net production of CO2.
<barf>
…Frankly, I think you’d be somewhat happier if you were a little less neurotypical still. My autistic willpower is so strong I’m completely incapable of making any such commitment, and yet the result, so far, appears to be the same…
You try to overcompensate, and it doesn’t work. I can’t overcompensate, or compensate at all.
(…Though it appears to be rather fortunate that I grew up with healthy amounts of profanity. My mother tried to get it back out of me for a few years, but had to give up.)
Same again. I like being a nerd; I don’t want to be cool, because it simply wouldn’t make me happy. I will not suffer. I certainly won’t make myself suffer.
I don’t doubt that. I wasn’t very good at hiding my emotions, but I wasn’t very good at expressing them either. I would just isolate myself from everyone else so they couldn’t see how much they were hurting me, but it never worked. Everyone could see how I was feeling. And you know what? That was the best thing that could have happened to me! The bullies noted, but so did the people who liked and helped me during those difficult times, and who eventually became (and still are) my best friends. I love them and I’m thankful for everything they did for me. They were and are wonderful persons.
Nice to hear that. :)
I wasn’t in the pecking order. I was so weird and negligible that they threw me out of the hierarchy. The good thing was that I didn’t get bullied much at all, but the bad thing is that I still was never invited to the cool kids’ parties or the cool kids’ lunch table, even.
The worst thing that happened to me is that for several years, I was pursued after school by an older girls gang — they would follow me home and fawn over me like I was a little pet. It was a scarring experience, because they were doing it for a joke, and were completely insincere about the flattery. I still cringe a little bit when a woman says anything nice about me; I feel like I must be getting set up for a laugh.
Nerds are always so safe and unthreatening, you know.
Replying to Walton, sort of:
I don’t quite understand why libertarians seem to approve of or even accept the existence of corporations. A government creation that inherently lets people dodge responsibility for what they do is tolerable? Why??
Ron Sullivan
http://toad.faultline.org
I was bullied in high school for being small, introverted, non-athletic and intelligent. Several years ago I was visiting my parents in the town I grew up in. I ran into a guy who’d bullied me in high school. He literally put his arm around me and said “Do you remember all the great times we had together?” He couldn’t remember that he’d bullied me. He was convinced we’d been bestest buddies in school.
Memory is a strange thing sometimes.
I would guess that most of us congregating here had bad experiences in school for being nerds and uncool. I’ve noticed the same kind of unsettling effect ‘Tis just mentioned, but on Facebook – getting friend requests from people who not just weren’t my friends, but who actively went out of their way to mentally torture and belittle me. Um, no. There’s understanding that when we’re young our brains are unformed and prone to groupthink, and then there’s “but I still don’t need you in my life anyway, thanks”.
Nothing’s so cruel as a kid trying desperately to maintain their own position in the social hierarchy. (Doesn’t “kyriarchy” kind of cover that?)
No, not really. Nerds, in my experience, can also be very vicious and hateful. Not that I’ve bullied by any, but it’s my observation.
I was very fortunate not to have encounter much bullying during high school. Generally, I was part of the “popular” crowd. Elementary School was different. I was bullied, not so much for being a good student, but for being the only Asian student in my class.
Not at all, David. In my case overcompensating did work. The thing is that I don’t think I could be happy if I were any less gregarious, and that means I need, more than anything else, to have a relatively full complement of tools in my social toolbox. Being able to talk to girls who I was attracted to (irrespective of whether or not they were attracted to me) was a necessary tool. I’ve even learned to feign appreciation of sports solely so I can interact with people for whom sports are important. (It’s kinda like the guy who carries 20 pens as a conversation-starter in case they happen across someone who needs one, though less er, desperate-sounding in my mind.)
The cost of this is that I can be a little overly sensitive about perceptions of me. For instance, the threat of not being liked is still very real for me, and although I’ve developed enough discrimination to understand that some people’s like or dislike matters more than others’, but still.)
Yeah, I’m still a little bitter about being someone who loves science in a world where the majority do not, but at the heart of it I’m pretty pleased with who I am, even if it means I’ve subtly altered who I am to be more accessible to my favourite subject matter: other humans.
PZ wrote:
Me too – I was mostly a non-entity, which was good in some ways and bad in others; sure, I didn’t get bullied, but nor was I ever invited to any of the typical teenage gatherings and missed out on that whole aspect of the high school experience.
Interestingly enough, I have a high school reunion later this year. I’ve decided to go, more as a ‘confront your demons’ kind of experience than anything else.
A few years back I ran into a girl I’d dated in high school. We’d developed a mutual attraction that culminated in us dating for exactly two weeks over the Christmas holidays, most of which she was away with her family for. When she dumped me, it was because we ran in different circles, she being one of the ‘cool’ kids. Months later we got back together for one week, and she dumped me again. The next year we didn’t date at all, though I did escort her to our Grade 12 graduation.
So, a few years ago I ran into her, and she introduced me to her friend as the guy she dated “all through high school.” I must not have been in the most forgiving mood that day as I, as kindly as I could, reminded her that we’d dated for a total of three weeks and she broke my heart twice so it was a little unfair for her to think of me like that. (It might have been different if we’d had sex, but alas!)
(So, two girls broke my heart twice each. I must have a learning disability where relationships are concerned.)
Sometimes I wish I had that kind of memory: fleeting and rose-coloured as opposed to tenacious and grudging.
Jeez. What is this, a pity party? Damn nerds, showing feelings n’ shit.
I keed, I keed.
I can second two points: one, I, too, recall to my shame that I joined in with the teasing and bullying of the untouchables the exact second I took the very tiniest step up the middle school caste system. I’ve been able to forgive myself on the basis that nobody is exactly looking out for anybody but number 1 at that age, and remembering the sheer terror that was engendered by the idea of accidentally being “found out” as an unreconstructed nerd or a compassionate human being by the “cool kids” who seemed to be tolerating me for once. By high school I had discovered an identity and realized the “cool kids” actually sucked, and that I and my friends were going to go on and have interesting, fulfilled adult lives, and those losers had just peaked.
Also, to ‘Tis’s point, it is positively eerie the extent to which losers who peaked in high school can delude themselves into thinking they were perceived as anything other than obnoxious, arrogant assholes by 90 percent of their peers.
I think I finally figured out what PZ was trying to tell us with that video, about what’s wrong with the Endless Thread.
We need episode numbers.
SSVVEENN!!
I wasn’t bothered much in Jr. High or High School. A couple of big bullies tried picking on me in Jr. High, but after I fought back, it appeared the word got out. In High School, I was considered a brain, but since I lived a long ways from the High School, I had to make sure to catch the bus home, so I wasn’t around after school unless it was a band activity. By then, a certain Redhead was catching my eye too.
Hey folks! I’m pretty excited about this. Just thought I’d let you know: Michael Hawkins blog is back up!!
http://forthesakeofscience.wordpress.com/
I’m sure someone might have beat me to this, but it’s the intention that counts most sometimes, right? XD
A little heart breaking to see Phil Hartman, but this sketch was a standout in an otherwise disappointing season. Thanks for posting it, it’s great to see again. So true too!
I was in college when this aired. I may not have had a life, but I had more hair.
ßwinn?
EpisodesubThread numbers are easy. This would be number…uh…30!I’ll number ’em in the next update.
Don’t be silly, NoR. It’s clearly not neverending thread number ssvveenn, and probably not even eeggiihht or nneeiinn. (If I had to guess, I’d say this thread is probably somewhere in the ttnnees, and maybe even in the tteewwnniittees).
Why am I totally unsurprised to learn many of us were unpopular or bullied?
I don’t know about you all, but looking back on how I felt in high school, I couldn’t have imagined how much better being an adult would be. Being in my 30s is better than my 20s, which were a hell of a lot better than my teens. Is it the same for others?
Now, if I could just hold it here. . . maybe more time in the regeneration chamber would help. . .
I blame my unhappy high school experience on the lack of access to alternative popular culture in my pissant country town with nothing but mainstream radio, film, television and books – basically, we weren’t given too many options for how we formed social groups.
While I hung out with the bookish RPG nerds (and reading the most wretched exponents of the fantasy genre) I wasn’t really one of them; I should have been hanging with other wannbe hipsters, reading cool stuff like Heller and Vonnegut and Tom Robbins and learning to play guitar.
*sends Brownian a tankard of e-grog :)*
Well, since my 20’s just started, I wouldn’t know.
Ignore it. I was looking at two recipes and got part of the wrong recipe in the recipe I posted.
Always with the smart answer, Pikachu. Well guess what – it ain’t gonna work. I’m not going to spank you.
Where is Patricia when you need her?
‘Tis – been wondering where she is and how she’s doing. Hope she drops in. Keep a note, though, in case she does – Gyeong is not under any circumstances to be spanked. He doesn’t deserve it.
Yes and no. On the plus side, I’ve had a lot more fun over the last five years (I’m 34 now) than I ever did other than a few select time periods from my mid-teens.
On the minus side, I’m getting creakier, doughier, and hairier, and the playboy lifestyle of jetting off to the Côte d’Azur for a month of interviews and photoshoots with my supermodel/research director at CERN wife seems an increasingly far-fetched dream.
Why not? I’ve been naughty (by driving 70 on a 60 road while being sleep deprived.)
I’ve been wondering the same thing, Josh. I do worry about some of the people, like Geologist Josh and Patricia, who’ve disappeared.
Any spanking of Gyeong will be left in your capable hands.
‘Tis – didn’t Patricia’s husband die recently? Didn’t she pop in to let us know? I hope I’m not confusing her with someone else. It would be awfully nice for her to show up though; I note her absence and hope she’s OK.
I think I must not have been much of a regular when Geologist Josh was around, since I don’t remember him.
And I told you already – Pikachu will not be spanked.
Yes and no. I’m a lot more comfortable with who I am now I’m in my 30s, but that’s come as a result of some harsh realisations about how well (or, more accurately, poorly) I relate to people.
My belief is that being in my mid-30s while still having some of the attitude of a lackadaisical 23-year-old (i.e. posessing little-to-no interest in advancing in my career, or having kids or renovating and instead being obsessed with the intricacies of popular culture) at that age is considered a bad thing by most of my contemporaries.
As a result I really only venture into meatspace if where I’m going either doesn’t involve having to interact with people or it is interaction around a purpose, i.e. work or theatre or a film or a gig; in short, I can’t do things like hang out in a bar or at a party. I almost always get way too anxious and shut down completely.
Hence why I spend so much of my damn time here…
Speaking of names: President Barack Obama (damn, I love to type that) has a first name that could scare the Catholics.
“Barack” supposedly is either Swahili for “lightning” or Hebrew for “blessing from heaven”. I am willing to split the difference, or rather, to say both, since lightning comes from heaven.
My point is that the Hannibal who took elephants over the Alps to attack Rome had the family name of Barca, which supposedly was Carthaginian for “lightning”. His dad was Hamilcar and his brother was Hasdrubal, really rocking the name business.
So Obama has the same name as a fellow who tried to destroy Rome. That should scare the pope, and could make a lot of Baptist fundamentalists support Barack for a change.
I preferred being in my 30s than my 20s. I was out of school, particularly grad school, I was gainfully employed doing something I enjoyed doing, and I got laid a great deal more often.
You sound like my 7th Grade Catholic school science teacher.
I hate to break it to you, but I’ve spanked my pikachu twice already tod–oh, I see what you were referring to.
My apologies, everyone.
Apparently, that’s the modus operandi here in South Carolina. If I had a dollar for every guy I’ve seen online and in bars who was married and came out in their late 30s…well, I’d probably have a lot of dollars.
Josh, just post something under the nom de plume of “Kenny” and Patricia will show up with a scathing post. I posted as “Kenny P” and she raked me over the coals. How was I to know that there was an infamous troll know as “Kenny” who was far worse then the more recent Dendy.
I don’t think I was smart enough to be a nerd, but I definitely wasn’t part of the “cool crowd” in school. I recently went to my high school’s 40th reunion. Some of the “cool crowd” had definitely lost it.
Menyambal, baraca means “blessings” in Swahili, but given that the language contains a huge number of Arabic loanwords it’s likely related to the Semitic words as well.
Calling the Pharyngulite Horde! Help! We have an asshole newbie on another thread arguing that women shouldn’t have “frivolous” abortions just because it’s “inconvenient.” That’s “denying a person a life.”
Please help with clean up in aisle six:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/they_dont_really_care_about_th.php
Thirties for me are definitely better than twenties and teens, if a lot more stressful in different ways. I’m much, much, MUCH more comfortable with myself, with who I am, and my place in the world (thanks, therapy!). Then again, the worries associated with needing money to support other people can be painful. But in general, yeah. I’ve always looked forward to getting older, and so far I like it a lot. But then again, get back to me in a few years when I hit 40…
Was this the thread?
Yep. Different country, different time, same shitty-assed bullies got us both.
At the age of 34, this should a level of stamina to be proud of, mate.
Mistake was due to typing with one hand during an attempt to out-do Brownian, see.
Mr. Fire, this is the endless thread, not the endless fap.
yes, let’s be honest: why the hell not, if the occasion arises
I SAID GIVE ME THE BRANDY!!
sniff sniff. Someone else knows what it feels like. Er. . .I thought you were USAian, MrFire?
Fine then, there are other people who appriciate BDSM. Where’s Bill?
Patricia, the Princess of Pullets, has been MIA for a few days. Her posting has been erratic since her husband died. She and Janine do e-mail. Geology Josh I worry about. The last time he was gone this long, he complained about long cold hikes when he returned. Lets hope he’s at least in the western hemisphere, rather than mid Asia.
I’m fucking glad I didn’t go to y’all’s high-schools. mine consisted almost entirely of
1)people who majored* in Ancient Green and Latin
2)People who majored in music
3)People who majored in math and physics
being teased for being a nerd wasn’t gonna happen, since we were all nerds and geeks. probably happened for other reasons (I was too busy dealing with my own problems to notice), but not for having brains.
—–
*after 10th grade you pick 2 subjects that will be your main focus for the rest of high-school; these are probably also the subjects they ended up studying in college, but I wouldn’t know that.
That’s my worry about our favorite airborne ranger geologist.
If you truly appreciated it, Pikachu, you would find my denying you a spankin’ unbearably hawt.
and let’s be honest; how many of us are interested in picking up in clubs, anyway?
Damn, if it were still possible, I’d do it in a second. Damn, those were some fun times!
Nope. Born and raised in the UK. But I now live in US, and the transformation is almost complete. Like The Fly. When my brother calls though, the Nawf Laandan accent comes shining through and confounds my wife no end.
On the bullying front: mostly psychological. As in, calling me names (ever hear Ching Chong Chinaman Tried To Milk A Cow?), group exclusions, stealing my shit or damaging it. Teacher (Catholic School, natch) told me to stop exaggerating. Good times. I also got called ‘Paki’ a lot, despite not looking remotely like a person from the Indian subcontinent.
Who said anything about my faps being endless? 35 seconds on a good day, and if the wind is just right. Or 15 for a sweetcheeks like you.
ancient green? fucking hell. i meant ancient greek
(debating on whether I should sex-up this thread furthr.)
Do what you want. I’m going to bed…with a warm, cuddly partner.
HA! Touche (how the fuck do you make diacriticals here?).
OK. I admit my prejudice. I hate parochial, regional accents. Despise them. I don’t mean the broad understanding of an accent from another country, I mean the very specific, local, idiosyncratic pronunciations. I worked really hard to get rid of mine (upstate New York, US – it’s awful). The very. . .”parochialness” of them, like they’re from one small neighborhood or county, drives me nuts. Yes, linguists, I know. It’s small-minded of me, and it’s arbitrary. I know.
What is it with certain Brit accents where people can’t seem to pronounce the “l” sound? Example: “We had a fire, and I ran from the bewwwding (building).”
Or, “Regionowww (regional) differences led to fighting amongst. . .”
Is there a name for that particular pronunciation?
The manufacturer recommends you wash your Snuggie(TM) at least once a week.
Jadehawk wrote:
Someone’s got to make up for the RevBDC when he’s not here.
Another of the problems of living in rural isolation was that there weren’t many options of what to study at school – it was really down to straight maths/science, accounting & economics, shop classes and agricultural stuff.
I don’t even think there was senior history and geography – not that I would have done them anyway, since it would have only been modern history and Australia is a really dull place in terms of modern history.
Night to you Tis and your warm cuddly partner.
I got “Ching Chong Moka Hoy” and kids trying make slanted eyes at me. In high school, I got called a chink*, once and a jap once. Chink would be sorta correct since I’m part Han Chinese (Teochew) but for some reason they were totally ignorant of the existence of the Korean peninsula, Mongolia, Central Asia, and Southeast Asia.
*apparently, also, acknowledging the existance of the PRC and nomadic Mongolians makes me a commie…
Hayell yes! Though I feel that no-one should have to wait until their 30s to (finally) get to grips with their extreme introversion and be able to, you know, talk to people, or be comfortable in their presence within 10′, or in groups of more than about 4, or strangers of any stripe. My early to mid twenties were my nearly-suicidal years, which I wouldn’t have back at any price, and as for my teens… See, high school girls didn’t read anything but Harlequin Romances back in the ’70s. Not in small-town Oklahoma, anyway. Scifi, astronomy, and archaeology were right out. Only four girls in my graduating class took anything more sciency than General Science, and it’s not like we were a cohesive unit. What was this “peer group” thing of which I kept hearing rumors?
Aaaaand, I think that’s about enough of that.
Though I’ve heard rumors that SnuggiesTM are terribly prone to disintegrate in the dryer, so you might want to line-dry, and spare yourself the possible pain of future cold, lonely nights. ;)
cicely wrote:
As I noted upthread, it’s actually the opposite for me; I’ve discovered I’m far less capable of coping with groups of people and am close to flat-out refusing to do anything in meatspace if it’s likely to involve even moderate periods where I’m be forced to try and ‘mingle’.
The GAC in a couple of weeks will actually be somewhat of a challenge; it’s only because I’ve convinced myself the people there must have about a few key things in common (i.e. they are atheists and are interested in listening to people talk about atheism and hang out with other atheists of a similar mindset) with me that I’m not horrifically anxious about going.
I just hope I don’t wig out and decide to try and put on a brash fake persona, i.e. become someone who wanders around hitting on women with lines like, ‘hey baby – want to see my Order of the Molly?’
Yes.
This thread is giving me some hope for the future, being close to taking the plunge into thirtyhood. I’ve started grad school, and I have something of a peer group now for the first time since undergrad. I haven’t gone out all that often, but I’ll be doing it more. The only concern I have is that most of the dating population around here are going to be nearly ten years younger than me.
(This is why ephebophilia makes no sense to me. I didn’t even like teenagers when I was one.)
Watch out. They may want to see it. ;)
Of course, you would Josh. ;)
Watch it, Pika-slut. Or I’ll not spank you for a whole year:)
Just finished ripping apart Frodo and Merry with a bunch of graduate students. We were like hyenas. I’m feeling young and spunky.
Brownian responding to me & Dania:
hmm, what made you think we weren’t speaking from experience?
seconded. I’m finally coming to terms with the fact that I’m pretty much a loner. Meatspace socialising is exhausting and bothersome for the most part*, and I’ve finally stopped trying to be more social because it’s expected of me. I don’t want to, and the world can go fuck itself if it doesn’t like that.
——-
*pretty much the only two exceptions are doing something interesting which merely happens to involve a bunch of people, and meatspace meetings with online friends.
Perhaps if we could just encourage every woman in the world to actually talk to us before writing us off, Akira and I could take solace in that fact.
You know, it works both ways.
After high school, I remember learning from various people that guys I’d been interested in had been too shy to ask me out. I had the BMOC star quarterback calling my mother and begging for clues about getting me to notice him–but he somehow couldn’t speak to me in person–took him months to get the nerve to say hello, and longer than that to advance to making idle remarks as I passed him in halls, I guess to get me to pay attention to him. Maybe if he’d said something like, “what do you think of Carter’s chances of winning?” I might have both stopped to talk rather than giving him a blow-off remark, or remembered what he’d said to me all those times.
I don’t think he was a bad guy or an idiot, but I do think he was an emotional retard, at least in the sense of how to approach women. I wasn’t one of those women who lost sleep over getting a man, and I’d rather poke out my eyes with sticks than throw myself at one. If they wanted, they’d tell me, then I’d decide if I’d return it or not (in East Texas, usually not).
The curse of being that way is how many men are stupid enough to see it as a challenge. They think they’ll be different, that they will be irresistible to me and have me panting for them, begging for their attention.
Foolish men. As if I’d cede that pleasure to them.
It’s almost Threadmas Eve!!!!!
Oh, Sven, do hang our stockings from the portcullis with care?
Me? Slut? What ever do you mean Josh dear?
To amend our discussion of high school, I got through by being a “jock”. Not to say that there wasn’t psychological torment. Along with my homosexual denialism, I had a lot of pressure from evangelical Christians to convert. (I wonder what they would say after seeing that they missionary attempts only drove me to agnosticism.)
I’m giving everybody comments this year.
jadehawk wrote:
Well, in terms of blogs/fora/etc. this is the only place I’m online with any regularity – so the GAC will be my first attempt to see if that works for me. But someone’s recently set up a local online atheism group so I’ll be checking them out (in person) when I’m not as crazy-busy as I am now.
However, I’ve had somewhat bad experiences in that people with whom I’ve gotten on well online (who I’ve met in person but communicated with mostly via email or – back in the day – snail mail) have had interesting (read: unpleasant) reactions to me after spending time with me in person* – which is what has led me to my current state of social phobia.
An example: one ex-friend of this ilk, when asked by a mutual friend whether or not she missed having me in her life, responded with ‘I miss his emails’. While hearing this made me more than a little miserable as a person it did kind of make me feel good as a writer.
Still, I’ve had enough conversations with the likes of Kel and Rorschach to know that, worst case scenario, I’ll have a few people to talk to.
Aquaria wrote:
Some of us still have that problem. Feel free to provide hints to aid us in overcoming it…
Just good-natured, affectionate teasing, Pikachu.
I was the academic, bookish (then later, in HS) flamboyant gay kid. Being the physical and metaphorical brunt of the jokes was not easy, to say the least. Developing a limited reputation in HS as being funny and entertaining did ameliorate it to some degree, but not enough.
Looking back on the kids I went to school with, many of the jocks were obviously gay (I say, with hindsight). And they felt just as trapped by homophobia and social roles as I did. While there’s no excuse for kids bullying one another, time and distance allows me to see their predicament with sympathy that I couldn’t have when I was in high school.
In the end, isn’t it just grand that we all grew up?
Berlinski, Wells, Behe and Meyer don’t go for any of that natural selection stuff, no sir! It’s designers all the way down!
Oh, and apropos of nothing – I just got good news that my piano teacher is not, in fact, dead, but back home and out of the hospital. Wee bit of congestive heart failure, eradicated by diuretics (take that, you anti-pharma fucks).
Awww snap! Allied with idiots as they are, how shall we ever defeat Frodo and Merry?
Larry the Cable Guy liked What Darwin Got Wrong too!
Git ‘er done!
Wowbagger:
I can’t believe you, of all people are inept on the dating scene.
In secondary school (Britspeak for Middle + Jr.High + High) I got no taunting whatsoever, and those were the best years of my youth. Moreover, I didn’t even have to put anyone else down in the process. Primary (~ elementary) was where all the shit went down. Sadly, I offloaded some of that onto other kids even lower down than I was. I recall that Brownian mentioned doing something similar. Which leads me to…
Anybody remember the link to Brownian’s set of flickr pictures? I once compared the last in that series to George Michael, but the one where he’s wearing a cowboy hat looks like Freddy Rodriguez.
I believe it is called L-vocalization. A feature of the Estuary English dialect, amongst others.
While we are collectively (or with fierce independence) bemoaning our high-school experiences, I too was the brunt of ridicule, on account of my homosexuality. Although I wasn’t actually gay, I developed a sense of gay pride that I maintain to this day.
Aquaria wrote:
I think the confidence and attitude I exhibit here (which is what I’m assuming led you to hold the opinion you expressed) is something that – sadly – I appear unable to carry off in ‘real life’ for assorted reasons.
My main problem is meeting people who find me interesting and vice versa. It just doesn’t seem to happen.
walton@110
i don’t think the main criticism of capitalism is stripping society of resources. That will happen under any economy. What’s more worrisome is the “greed is good” instrumentalism that it engenders. It operates on the assumption that people are self-interested, a notion generally accepted through the ages but held to be a flaw. Yet libertarians, good instrumentalists that they are, are quick to give short shrift to what is or what was, but rather what can be brought about, and always along the lines of its own reductive science of human nature. So yeah, they will make concessions about government control when it comes to extinction of species, but they won’t hold the same regard for extinctions of traditions
Antiochus, #195:
One of these things is not like the other. Explain, please?
Josh:
Foothills of the Appalachians, inordinate fondness for wildflowers, good skin.
Antiochus:
Cryptic, and unclear.
i think what AE is trying to say is that he was “gay”, not actually gay. people just decided that he had to be a homosexual because of other things that are thought “gay” but have fuck-all to do with sexual orientation.
IOW, he got stereotyped as a homosexual without being one
I’m not gay, but many people thought I was.
Ah, maybe. It’s just not clear to me. Then again, sometimes I’m really dense:)
Jadehawk…that’s the scoop. My point isn’t that I regret this, but that it gave me a sense of solidarity with others who were also considered unacceptable…which I like.
Well, see how people are? They go and give you compliments you don’t deserve! (I’m only joking – I know how it is to be treated as “gay” in high school whether you are or not).
I cannot confirm or deny any rumors or speculations.
No further comment.
I found the lack of acceptance to be liberating. Learning not to give a fuck about what the troglodytes think while you are still young is a gift.
Other than when I went to a new school my senior year, I had a lot of fun in high school, with a great gang of nerdy/arty friends. I also had a foot in the popular kid camp, thanks to having dated a very popular guy my sophomore year. Inviting me to hang out became a habit for the popular kids, and I went along when it suited me.
I preferred my arty friends. Crazy, fun people, every single one of them.
Wowbagger:
Then find a way to translate the person you are here into meatspace. Your confidence and your assertiveness are the very things most women want to see in a man. If you don’t have it, they know.
I’ll give you one secret of straight women: For a good number of them, the ideal isn’t Daddy or some movie star. It’s Darcy from Pride & Prejudice. There’s a reason for it. Think about it. Really think about it.
Wow, I just finished reading the accumulated posts on the Thread since last night. Apparently it’s confessions day on the Thread.
Like many others here, high school was not a good time for me. I was, how do you say it, physically underdeveloped which, when combined with a marked degree of nerdiness and social ineptitude, makes you the butt of everyone’s humor.
The good news is that by the end of junior year I realized that if I pretended I didn’t care about how other people treated (or what they thought of me) me a few of the other social outcasts would actually respect me. The hardest part of acting like these things were unimportant was learning not to cry in front of people. Sometimes a few repressed tears still escape, but I’m much better now.
I was picked on as a supposed homosexual throughout high school. Their evidence was that I played flute in the band. My best friend was the only other male flute player in our high school and he was left alone. He’s asian and was thought to know martial arts. I have no idea if this was true, he wouldn’t confirm or deny it. No one had any more evidence for his martial abilities than they had for my sexuality.
I found out years later that he was indeed gay.
Such things make me wonder if irony is the missing variable needed for a unified field theory.
independently wealthy and good looking?
Wow. I used to laugh at people who thought high school was awesome. I knew it wasn’t all that great.
Now I feel like one of them, because I don’t remember it as all that bad. Not in comparison to jr. high. That was the worst, probably because the worst group of mean girls I encountered in school were from that era.
No one is meaner than a 13 year old mean girl.
#212
What a surprise. Someone who doesn’t get it.
That’s why I said to think about it. The reasons are more complex than that.
Having recently met Wowbagger, I can vouch that he’s perfectly acceptable and quite unscary in appearance. Unlike that dude who was wearing the “I’m an arsehole and quite possibly a psychopath, avoid me!” Tshirt. (Actual wording approx. “When I want your opinion I’ll remove the duct tape.”)
Unrelated gratuitous non-specific advice to all het boy nerds on talking to teh gurlz: we are in fact also human beings, and not aliens. You can work out quite a lot of very good guidelines if you make your mirror neurons do some work.
For instance, talking about yourself and your interests at great length, and never asking about her and her interests, is Not A Good Idea. You can tell, because you don’t like it when someone does that to you, right? (An exception may be granted when people are actually asking you about yourself, but even then reciprocating is usually a good idea.)
It’s really amazing the number of boys who don’t get this sort of thing. And even grown men, too. Presumably they are trying not to connect, but to impress. And so failing badly at humanity 101.[Disclaimer: it might work on the non-nerd girls. Especially empty-headed ones with poor self-esteem. I wouldn’t know.]
(* Wonders if this seems too preachy. Oh well. That’s not intended. Or perhaps it’s too much like advice from your Mum. meh.)
214 –
Yeah, that’s a guess. But I’ve never heard of women liking Darcy, so that’s news to me. Can you give a hint? This isn’t going to be one of those “women love to be dominated” arguments, is it?
You did? This is news to me! Now I’m really confused.
Aquaria: Think about what exactly? If you’re really trying to give good advice then do so by explaining what you mean. What you see as desirable traits in a fictitious character can be, and probably is, different from what anyone else would see.
Also, to be so vague and then to get sarcastic when someone expresses the obvious stereotype is childish.
Mind you, this whole thing is probably moot except for entertainment purposes; I can’t think of anything more subjective than sexual attraction.
That shirt was quite hilarious.
I think the way Frankosaurus is trying to fit in is kinda cute. Not just a troll.
Good comment, that one.
Feng shui being promoted uncritically in the Australian news, based on some guy gluing a coin to his doorstep before winning the lottery.
#214
You don’t know me if you think I would allow a man to dominate me.
Elizabeth Bennett wasn’t dominated, anyway. You don’t understand the book at all, or haven’t read it, if you can say such a thing.
Cringeworthy Shatner “music” !!!!
The skit was half-funny, in reality I think he wouldn’t have much joy if that’s what he really thought of his fanbase lol.
As to high school, I guess I was with the cool kids, if cool means drinking/smoking/philosophy and literature reading/politically active, but we were so cool that we were only boys in that club, because no girls thought we would consider them worthy of our attention !! Imagine that( this was told to me years later, after the fact), kindof ironic in a bad way.
Brownian sez:
Yeah, my sentiment exactly, what on earth am I meant to be doing from here on in when you’ve driven the car against the wall in terms of career/family/what-parents-wanted-me-to-become, not that I much care about these things.I guess there is books, and the Cricket, and just trying to be a decent person.Oh, and Cricket.
Maybe I should have watched that sometime to know who you are talking about !
Amusing anecdote :
At work today, female doctor collegue,quite young and naive otherwise, told me how she spoke to one of our collegues the other day, an orthodox jew, and how she felt after a short chat about his marriage and views on family values, that he was a “moral neanderthal”, and she felt sorry for his wife. I giggled all afternoon.
Kel, yeah, I saw that story.
I like the tenor of the comments on the ABC site, too.
Now for 216–
Look, an entire segment of the book industry is built around re-inventing Darcy. It’s called the romance genre, and it’s the biggest-selling fiction market, like it or not. The Regency is an enduring favorite as a subgenre within that market. If you look at these books, it’s obvious they’re (very badly) copying the Darcy archetype. He sells. I actually know some of thee writers, and, over and over, they outright admit they’re writing Darcy. He sells, even when put in a Scotsman’s kilt, or in the guise of vampire.
I think it was Thersites over at Whiskey Fire/Ashes that discussed how the consistent favorite literary hero as chosen by women was Darcy. I’ll have to look for the article–it was many years ago.
Does every woman prefer a Darcy archetype? No, of course not. But a hell of a lot of women do.
When we were discussing the article at Theri’s site, the women agreed to a tee that what they liked about Darcy was that he was an intelligent, cultured, loyal and decent man, whose ultimate quality was the ability to accept valid criticism about himself, and then do what it takes to change himself for the better. That he does it to deserve the woman he loves is the icing on the cake. In romance parlance, it’s called taming the alpha male
There’s more, but I won’t go on about it. I’ll just conclude by saying Darcy is an extremely complicated character, as all archetypal characters are, and what I wrote above touches on the issue only briefly. That’s why I recommended thinking about the character and why he appeals to so many women. The answer isn’t simple, because people are never simple.
Oh, and the other thing that makes Darcy so appealing to women that he didn’t want the the hyper-feminine, submissive type of woman. He wanted a strong, intelligent, independent-minded woman.
Since The Thread hasn’t had some good delugionist nonsense in a while:
@AE #207
:) I never gave a rodent’s posterior about what my contemporaries thought of me. Never mattered to me and the only person I had any control over was myself! I’m pleased to report I’m still happy and not plagued with angst to this day (I’m 38 and still “weird” by mainstream standards).
Aquaria,good to see another refugee from the “planet of East Texas”. :)
I should also add that when a teacher labels you an iconoclast they truly are unprepared for you to provide them with the definition of the word and take particular pride in it.
The first of the comments I made on the site (which was a condensed version of what I wrote on my blog) didn’t get posted. But I’m glad the cultural relativism one did.
Oooops…link for 227.
If Cath is referring to the recent Canberra “Skeptic’s In The Pub”, I wonder which Canberran she has mistaken for Wowbagger.
225 –
ah yes, I see what you mean. And I suppose a person really needs to be fresh on the book to catch the nuances. but it may be worth mentioning that we’ve also seen the reverse of taming that appeals to women, right? Like the character who needs to be rescued from his self-destructive habits. I wonder if you consider this to be a variation.
The point about domination, though, still stands. Even if he doesn’t dominate, he still retains the capacity to dominate. He has the purse strings, privilege, property, and the pants. I can’t see how this isn’t alluring for many.
Darcy=Colin Firth.
Enough said.
Walton #110,
Why would individual governments regulate to conserve resources when the same governments are in competition with each other for the safeguard of resources to their nations ?
The only thing that might save capitalism from itself is a truely democratic one world government, and that’s a tall order. Do you really believe this is going to happen ? So far, the G20 and the UN have been mere optical illusions in this regard. I doubt it will ever work. Maybe only for a transition period towards a truely democratic system, that is NOT capitalism.
A system that has as its basis the establishment of property rights and the exploitation of competition rather than cooperation amongst humans will always drive to two things :
1. a limtless growth of the same property rights (ie limtless growth of profits from capital derived from a limitless growth of resource consumption)
2. ever increasing concentration of ownership amongst a few individuals
This is exactly what we have seen over the last 60 years : a doubling of the consumption of resources every 30 years, and an ever increasing concentration of the net wealth amongst a few individuals : on a global scale, it is now such that less than 1% of humans own almost 100% of everything. I sincerely doubt that this is going to work for another 60 years, it will collapse way before then.
That system is self-defeating. Rather than this, we should find a way to transition towards a system that is based on usage (those who work in an activity use the means of production rather than someoneelse owning them) and on maximizing cooperation amongst humans rather than competition.
Oh ! That’s kinda funny…:-) I’m glad we’re going to have name tags at the GAC then hey, wouldn’t want to be the talk of all the hot single atheist chicks at the convention, like” yeah that Rorschach guy, he can go all nite long talking about atheism and the future of humanity”, only to be discovered to be a case of mistaken identity with some dude called Dunkin or Dawbin or something…
Darcy is all very well but Henry Tilney is Austen’s finest hero.
I think there is something terribly sexy about guys who can talk all nite long about atheism and the future of humanity…
And NO, I’m not a hot atheist chick.
There is no monolithic “women like men who…” or “men like women who…” The closest one can get is that people like other people who pay attention to them and are interesting conversational partners, and who are interested in the other person for who they are rather than what they can do/what niche they can fill for them.
As for getting comfortable with people, I have a few friends who swear by the Toastmasters organization. They’ve said that not only do you get the speaking practice that it’s known for, but the chapters usually aren’t very big, and since each event is tied to a theme there’s always that to chat about so you don’t have to think up random subjects. Maybe we should make a sub-thread of Pharyngulan Social Stories
Aquaria #225: Thanks for that.
I have a question about these romance novels though. I ran a book store for almost 20 years and we sold tonnes of romance novels including the Regency ones you mentioned. Being a curious sort I read one of the most popular at the time, the name escapes me, and I skimmed a half dozen more. Hardly a representative sample I know, but it was all I was willing to spend the time on. They all may indeed have had a Darcy character as the main protagonist, again, it was a while ago and I don’t remember.
What I do remember is that they all had a plot that put the female protagonist in a situation where she was under situational or societal pressure to have sex. An arranged marriage, a kidnapping by rogues or some-such, never outright rape but always something where the woman was compelled in some way. Of course it all worked out for the best because the male turned out to be a fine sort and worthy of love.
All this left me feeling like the entire genre was based around the notion that women, or at least those in the genre’s target market, felt guilty about sex. It seemed like much of the appeal of these books was the alleviation of that guilt. The female protagonist could be excused her desires after all because the compulsion in the plot had forced her into sex and I assume that that alleviated some of the guilt that the readers were feeling.
So, am I missing something here? Obviously my knowledge of the genre is limited and I’d dearly love to be wrong about this; it doesn’t say anything good about our society. And how does this square with the very positive notion that the appeal of these books is the female reader’s desire for a Darcy-like character?
Well, duh. Madonna/whore dichotomy, slut-shaming, “good girls don’t”, “why buy the cow if the milk is free”, rape victim-blaming…our entire society is predicated on the structure that virtuous women do not have sex except with the guy who
boughtmarried them.The only bargaining chip women had to offer for most of the history of civilization (and still, in some places) has been virginity.
Carlie # 241. It isn’t really a “duh” thing in so much as my sample size of this genre is all of 7 books. Have you read enough of these books to say that the majority conform to this plot scheme?
I can’t agree that “our entire society is predicated on the structure…” because our society is more than just sexual relations. I will agree that we come from a society in which our entire set of rules about sexual relations were predicated on that structure and I’m hoping that we’re moving towards a society where that isn’t true.
I didn’t mean the duh in the sense of what the genre is, but that there could be any question that women are conditioned to feel guilty about sex. But having read an unfortunate number of those books, the answer is indeed yes. They’re not called “bodice-rippers” for nothing.
I was sloppy in saying “our entire society is predicated on” – I meant “male-female relations in our society are entirely predicated on”.
Josh OSG #168
Sorry for late post – eating lunch at my desk
I once worked with a guy who’s accent wasn’t just regional, it was confined to a single street in a small town.
At age 10 his family, together with about 20 others, had transferred from a mining village in County Durham to Midsomer Norton (in the Somerset coalfield) because of the closure of the coal mine.
The combination of Geordie and Zummerset was …strange.
Josh OSG too: Josh, I didn’t get home till late last night and I immediately fell asleep, so I;m sorry I didn’t send you that recipe. I’ll get it out to you today. I’m having one teeny problem, though; here at work (yes, I’m already working and I have been since 6) I can’t access TypePad, so I can’t retrieve your e-mail address. Would you send me a test message to my username at gmail.com so I can reply? Thanks :)
Threadmas Eve!
Happy Monkey!
<snorts, distorts face, and kicks Pikachu in belly. Hard.>
It’s “blessing” in Arabic, same as Hebrew Baruch.
“Here”? That depends on your computer. One possibility is the character map: on a Mac you click on the flag near the top right corner of your screen; in Windows, it’s hidden in Start > All Programs > tools or extras or however it’s called in English > System Programs > Character Map, but once you use it, it’ll stay in the start menu.
Don’t misundreshtmate the differences between the Internet, where you’re for instance not even supposed to look into people’s eyes, and meatspace.
(To go off on a tangent with that example, I’ve already mentioned how I overcompensated at my first scientific meaning and stared at people too much. Without social expectations, I wouldn’t look anywhere in particular while talking, except when expecting a visible reaction.)
For info, the Lomborg thread is now infested by Lomborg fans (3 of them currently online if I count well).
I’m going to an atheist Meetup here in Houston tomorrow night. I’m glad you all vented in this thread because I will have things to keep in mind when I am there. I have typically been guilty of thinking I’m the only uncomfortable, socially inept person in the room. But lately I’ve proven to myself that I can be socially “ept” to a degree if I smile and act like I’m glad to meet people. And all of you have proven to me that if someone doesn’t respond, maybe it’s not me… maybe they don’t intend to seem negative… maybe they’re decent, caring people, but “slow to warm up.” That’s fine with me. I can invest the energy.
badgersdaughter: Prepared for the snow?
About “bodice rippers”… I’ve read too many of these in my teens and early 20s, and I agree with Carlie. After all, look at what they’re called. You don’t imagine the heroine rips her own bodice, do you?
Hahaha, a hundred flakes will fall from the sky, stick for thirty seconds, and the city will freak out worse than a hurricane. I prepare for hurricanes.
I’m working from home today, logged into the work network. I don’t have to be anywhere till tonight and I’m sure the danger will be past by then… and if not, meh.
How to read a scientific paper
Desperate attempt to get away from the depressing lack-of-relationship stories. I really shouldn’t have read them when there were three layers of clouds.
Yesterday evening I got the book I had ordered from Amazon about what it’s like to be a scientist in Germany. There’s some general stuff in it, too, like the following “guide to the phraseology of the scientific paper” (everything in italics is in English in the otherwise German original):
Source: P. 13 of S. Bär [obvious pseudonym]: Forschen auf Deutsch. Der Machiavelli für Forscher – und solche, die es noch werden wollen [Doing research in German. The Machiavelli for researchers – and those who want to become ones], Harri Deutsch 2005.
I’ve seen bigger and arguably better lists, but this is the only one I have available. Like this one, they’re all heavily slanted toward molecular biology, so that I haven’t encountered all of the phrases in the wild.
One important item is missing: “strongly suggest”. That’s what’s used where everyone not neck-deep in science theory and/or modesty would say “prove”. I’ve used it myself :-)
Well, I wasn’t until just now…
(/Thanks.)
You should ask for his safeword first, before you try any extreme kinks.
Laughing hard at #253…
And re ‘Prepared for the snow?’, why, thank you for asking! Why, yes, we have snow! Lots of snow! The first fall that’s added up to more ‘n like about a centimeter or two in a long, long, long several weeks is falling right now! Finally! And any rumour that I just ran outside to roll around in it delightedly without stopping to think I was only wearing my bathrobe, much to the alarm and amusement of my neighbours, is a scurrilous and totally unwarranted exaggerations…
… Insofar as I was also wearing my socks.
In other news, I have found myself unable to participate meaningfully in the high school experience subthread ‘cos honestly, my high school experience was… ummm… sorta weird. Hard to summarize, even.
I mean, there was some of that asshole terrorizing bullies creating occasional misery stuff, as something of a continuation of grade school, but only for the first year or so. We had a very streamed school, and the goons mostly disappeared into their own little shop class enclave after a while, and/or dropped out and/or drove into rock cuts at high speed while drunk and thus stopped being much of a problem. Leaving me in the company of the more academically inclined jocks as really the only potential source of trouble, and those were mostly pretty okay, actually… There was a certain give and take, sure, but we all had our moments…
And somewhere along the way I did this strange transition to geeky class clown/rabble rouser thing… And even developed a reasonably rewarding/varied, if again, rather odd, social life. Sure, I was in the general weird kid bucket, but people treated me pretty well. They were fairly small classes, too, I guess, especially toward graduation, and we mostly got along.
And that’s about the best I can do for a capsule summary…
Well, there was all of that and some really hideous mullets…
And in retrospect, yes, I guess it did leave me with some scars. But mostly just when remembering the mullets.
(/And if anyone brings those up again, I’m so denying I ever copped to ’em. Did not happen. Nope. That’s just crazy talk. Some evil troll who hacked the server wrote that into my comment. Or… Wait… Better: that Laden guy done it. Yeah… That’s the ticket.)
Fossil:
Yes, there are a set of these books that are very much about women making decisions about having sex, and guilt issues and all that.
But not all of them, and not always for the reasons we think.
The thing is, in these historical romances, the writers are very definitely writing a fantasy about a time when the behavior their heroines exhibit would have had more horrific results than are suffered. I think even the dumbest of the genre’s readers know it.
Somehow, though you have to reflect the reality of the medieval era, &etc. Guilt is a lazy way to do it.
This isn’t to say that the guilt of the readers isn’t taken into consideration by some of the writers and exploited to prey upon it. It probably is. but it’s not the whole reason.
As for the plots–Well, yes and no about situational sex situations. The main Harlequin and Silhouette lines still sport chaste plots. The Xian romance subgenre is also strongly chaste. There’s a wedding ring, and the sun sets. The sex is understood to be awesome, I suppose.
Now for the ones that do focus on sex–the situational ones? Well, the point of the genre is to answer: How does the heroing et laid? And you have to be original about it, too. That’s a toughie.
The pressure situations are really–really–frowned upon in the modern industry, or it was the last I had contact with it in the late 90s The monstrous “heroes” of books like Wicked Loving Lies are just about a relic now.
For the record, 1976’s WWL is the sickest, craziest “romance” book ever written.. I think someone dared Rosemary Rogers to thrown in as many genre staples as possible, and some kinky twists: Convents, Irish troubles, Napoleon, Regency England, Native Americans, pirates, a sheik, mercenaries, the hero and heroine both enslaved, a stolen baby, confused paternity, bastards literal and metaphorical, adultery, borderline incest, multiple rape–it’s all in there. And anal sex, too!
And even though the heroine is an idiot, she’s smarter than 99% of the heroines written today. That’s pretty damned sad.
Yesterday, our Spokesgay was asking about Patricia. She is still around. She has her good days and her bad days, that is all I will disclose. When she has not been around for a while, well, you can guess. But she appreciates the well wishes and kind words from the people of this blog.
About “bodice rippers”… I’ve read too many of these in my teens and early 20s, and I agree with Carlie. After all, look at what they’re called. You don’t imagine the heroine rips her own bodice, do you?
Pick up any 1970s book by Rosemary Rogers and you’ll understand why the ripped bodices referred to are those of the women.
Did y’all know that American writers have borrowed the yaoi concept from Japan and are now writing gay romance novels for women? I’m almost embarrassed to reveal that they’re called Zipper Rippers.
I’m not clever enough to make that up.
Dammit dammit dammit!!!! I missed a few Casual Fridays and Cognitive Daily went and closed. :(
Dammit!
I’m getting it.
All of this talk of high school and spring training starting for baseball teams, including the dogdamned aging Cubs, brought to mind one of the greatest rants ever. It occurred back in 1983, when I was still in high school. I may be the Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse but cannot top this. And you can print it!
I wonder if the success of Brokeback Mountain (the movie) had anything to do with that ?
Don’t misundreshtmate the differences between the Internet, where you’re for instance not even supposed to look into people’s eyes, and meatspace.
Yeah, I do know better. I remember when someone I knew IRL met some folks from a writers group online, and the most risque of the women online was actually a very buttoned down, quiet woman who could barely speak to anyone. She was so eloquent online, so outrageous, yet so shy in person.
Scratch that. I read the description and reviews for WLL on Amazon. While I am pro-depravity, this one seems a little too rape-y for me. I suppose I should have picked up on that in the thread explanans of the bodice-ripper. But I admit freely that I didn’t really know what a bodice was either.
Also, having never read a romance novel, AND given the discussion above, what is the appeal (expecially the Xian romance novel*)? These books sell like hotcakes, no? Are romance novels intended only to titillate, or is there some more complex emotional need that these serve? I’m wondering if somehow they are akin to the revenge therapy genre of movies…you know…hero/heroine is wronged egregiously and must initiate bloody spree of righteous vengeance until the antagonist has been…erm…served, and so forth; a completely formulaic yet satisfying genre that I enjoy immensely especially when Kung Fu or stabbing is involved.
Perhaps I have said too much.
*Bleargh! Rowlph!
Plenty of dinosaur bones found in a new site in southwestern France… in just 4 m². Yes, four square meters. Different dinosaur species, turtles, and crocodiles.
No kinks involved. I’m seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation, at night, and too fast.
I wonder if the success of Brokeback Mountain (the movie) had anything to do with that ?
Maybe, but I wouldn’t be so sure.
Until a meltdown last year, one of the few growth markets in publishing for several recent years was manga, and yaoi has shown surprising (and continued) success as a subgenre within that market. Better yet, it’s primarily a young adult market, women have long been the bigger buyers of book, so the publishers are trying to capitalize on this happy confluence of market trends and demographics.
This is the thread that never ends
Yes it goes on and on my friend
Some people starting commenting not knowing what it was
And they’ll continue commenting just because…
Fermi closes on cosmic ray source
I think the latter is fairly easy to explain. The life of a fundamentalist Christian teenage female
is one that is full of being told NO. No, you aren’t allowed to have sex. No, you aren’t allowed to make out. No, you aren’t allowed to really have a boyfriend. No, you aren’t allowed to watch R-rated movies. No, you most certainly shouldn’t be thinking of such naughty things, ever. But oh, here is a novel where a heroine just like you finds out that all of this suffering and waiting is worthwhile, because it leads directly to true love forever and ever and she is golden in the eyes of God and her family and her husband and everyone wishes to be her and this can all be yours too if you just stick with the program! Also it has just a smidgen of that sex we won’t let you do anything about, but in an approved way so you can get a tiny jolly that will reinforce your desire to live just like the heroine so you can hope to get more of that good feeling someday.
Are romance novels intended only to titillate, or is there some more complex emotional need that these serve?
Depends on the market reading it. When it’s teenagers–yes, it’s titillation. When it’s grown women, it’s about the emotional satisfaction of the romance storyline, the escape to faraway lands, and so forth.
These books fill a very deep need for some women that isn’t necessarily good for them, sort of like literary chocolate. And cheap, American chocolate at that. I’ve long felt that a reason this industry is so huge (sometimes up to 50% of all fiction sales!) is because, like chocolate, the readers of these books are addicted to the emotional need it fulfills in them. Those of us who’ve worked at bookstores have had dozens of regulars who buy every Harlequin/Silhouette book in every series–every single month, and there can be 8 or more series at any given time, with 2-5 (or more!) books per series. And that’s not counting the most recent mainline titles from Avon, Dorchester. Zebra and the other romance publishing lines. Before you ask, it’s not to collect–they read all of them, if each is their idea of good.
They know when the books are coming in, and show up at the store on that day, often as soon as the store opens, like a junkie getting her fix.
BTW, you made a wise decision to avoid WLL. I personally love it for the camp factor of its sheer awfulness, but it’s not for everyone.
Truly, the Flood worked in mysterious ways.
As long as we’re sharing school memories, I’m not too fond of hard kicks to the stomach, either.
Re zipper rippers: Hasn’t most slashfic been written and read by women since slashfic typically starred the gentleman in the original post and was distributed in photocopied leaflets? The only odd thing about gay-male romances aimed at straight women is that it didn’t become common sooner.
There’s a slashfic topic now?! Damn, but I need to catch up.
In the meantime, since I gather he has a few fans here: New post in the Things I Won’t Work With series!
That’s how I met I-paint-pictures-of-vaginas-with-my-menses girl. She was too into holistic woo to sleep with/date. Bars aren’t effective enough filters.
For me it was undergrads, so late teens ~early twenties. I sabotaged my whole first degree just because I was so angsty about being one of them and loathing them at the same time. Looking back I wonder why I just didn’t chill out, get high and laid instead.
Didn’t mean to imply that you weren’t.
I still get that, and now I roll with it. What can I say? I’m a straight man but a bisexual flirt who occasionally cross-dresses ever so slightly. Nothing accentuates a crisp, black, double-breasted suit like a little five o’clock shadow, some tastefully dark but striking lipstick, and a Marilyn Munroe birthmark drawn in.
I had a bizarro experience in my second undergrad degree. I was 26, still young enough to think I was, well, young, but clearly a geezer to all the 18-year-olds in the first year bio and math classes. What resulted is that I took on some sort of liminal status in which I could do nearly anything without fear of social repercussion. No one could judge me, because I had an unjudgable status. “Is he being weird or just old?” “I dunno, I never met an old guy before.” Seriously. 18-year-olds are that dumb.
As a result I made up for experiences lost in my first degree and participated the shit out of my classes and enjoyed an active social life on campus as well. I also used the skills I’d learned as a fundraiser to play mediator in class, rephrasing questions from students that the instructor didn’t quite understand without sounding like I was rephrasing the question (no one likes to lose face). In one class I’d shown up late the first day and couldn’t find a seat except for a bench at the back. I tried to sit there but I couldn’t quite see the overhead (this prof hadn’t graduated to WebCT and powerpoint yet), so I grabbed a chair, carried it to the front of the class, set it down in the middle of the aisle with my notebook on my lap and sat there for the rest of the term, rearranging the seating before and returning it after class to suit my preference. Yeah, like I’m gonna sit where the man wants me to. I did other semi-weird stuff too. So that was my two years of experimenting with social conventions in a university setting. What fun!
The only drawback from that time is that my ex-girlfriend was doing a year-long contract with an NGO across the country, her behaviour (and my reaction to it) being the catalyst that ended our relationship three years later.
You forgot about the chicks-dig-assholes factor. There is a substantial contingent of women for whom doing the exact opposite is your best bet. And yeah, us guys fall for bullshit just as often. Me especially. I wish it weren’t the case, but there you go.
Ahhh. This makes sense (thanks, too, Aquaria). I know many of the students in my universities athiest alliance experience a sense of relief after shucking off the constraints of religion.
I mostly lurk here, but I gotta chime in in defense of the modern romance novel. Yes, there was a time when rape/forceful seduction was the norm… and thankfully, the genre has outgrown that trope.
I mostly read romantic suspense/romance-themed SF/F, and historical romances for a fairly simple reason: romance-nuanced genres are the only books where I can be guaranteed a reasonably happy ending – if not Happily Ever After, at least Happy for Now. Too much fiction is unremittingly grim – if I want unremittingly grim, I’ll read political blogs or the newspaper.
But there’s a lot of good scholarship being done at places like Yale about the romance novel and why it’s so successful. If you’re truly interested in romance as a genre, hang out at places like Dear Author or Smart Bitches Trashy Books.
The writer who supposedly invented the Regency Romance is Georgette Heyer. She wrote books set in other times, too, but she got regencies started as good novels with complete characters living in an ineteresting world. She would be ashamed, I am sure, to see what the genre has degenerated into. She wrote well, and deserves more recognition than she gets these days. My family strongly recommends that you give her a try.
Back to fat Junior High Brownian: a gang of skater guys I sorta hung out with but was clearly the grassy stump on the social totem pole would pick on me and one other guy, Mike, by tossing us into a hedge at lunchtime. They called it ‘Hedge’ (clever guys, eh?) and afterwards Mike and I would pick ourselves up, brush off the twigs, and we’d all go smoke cigarettes in the field. Eventually Mike and I figured it would save everyone time and effort if we just threw ourselves into the hedge instead of fighting it (and by that time the hedge had a nice little hollow from all the previous tossings so I could avoid injury by throwing myself just right. Of course, this took the thrill of it away from the other guys and eventually we retired ‘Hedge’ and just went straight to the illicit smoking.
This is Rich.
How the fuck do people not see through this moron’s idiocy?
m/m slash has been around in the states a lot longer than yaoi has been imported – I *think* it started in the ’70s with Kirk/Spock slash, but from the beginning it was m/m romance written primarily for and by women.
I’m no expert, but that’s my understanding of slash fiction as well Becca, and the origin, named for KirkSlashSpock who were often the original protagonists.
Becca
1) No matter where m/m slash started, the very recent success of yaoi in the market is fueling the recent rise in publications of zipper rippers. Like I said, publishers are capitalizing on a convergence of factors very favorable to their bottom lines.
2)I gotta chime in in defense of the modern romance novel.
I’ve seen you in other forums where this topic comes up, promoting those sites and generally making a lot of laughable assertions about the romance industry. You don’t disappoint.
Yes, there was a time when rape/forceful seduction was the norm… and thankfully, the genre has outgrown that trope.
It hasn’t done a good enough job of it, because elements of it linger throughout the genre. The obsession with breaking hymens, the thinly-veiled “your lips say no but your eyes so yes” adaptations–these are ongoing tropes in the genre, and indicative of sanitized rape.
I mostly read romantic suspense/romance-themed SF/F, and historical romances for a fairly simple reason: romance-nuanced genres are the only books where I can be guaranteed a reasonably happy ending – if not Happily Ever After, at least Happy for Now.
I’ll have to take your word for that, but, honestly, that is always what the readers say, parrot-like, yet they don’t realize how extraordinarily shallow that sounds, and how much it sounds like an obsessive escape into phantasy. I don’t think many of you analyze just what it is you get from these novels in any deep or meaningful manner.
Too much fiction is unremittingly grim – if I want unremittingly grim, I’ll read political blogs or the newspaper.
Again with the escapes from reality. Some of it is okay, but you guys seem obsessed with it!
You don’t even understand what is really going on with these books, how they’re indoctrinating women into what to accept from men. You don’t understand how they repeatedly reinforce the notion that the only woman worthy anything is a young virgin who gives herself only to one man forever and ever. He can have all the partners he wants, but she cannot. Hell, at least a lot of the bodice rippers of the 70s gave women enough equality to get some experience with someone other than one creep with more libido than sense.
But there’s a lot of good scholarship being done at places like Yale about the romance novel and why it’s so successful.
Of course we want to know why millions of women in this day and age waste their minds on this drivel.
I’m not sure what forums you’re talking about – I mostly lurk, and rarely post about romance fiction. I know there’s at least one other Becca who posts in many of the same places I lurk, and who has some opinions that I do not share – since I can’t think of any other place I’ve recommended SBTB or Dear Author, maybe you’re thinking of a different Becca?
yeah, I’ll admit my reading tends toward shallow. I’ve got enough other stuff to deal with in my life that I have no problem admitting that I read mostly for escape. I *like* happy endings.
but I don’t think I’m being a dupe of the Patriarchy to like books where people wind up happy. And very few of the books I read have young virgins as heroines (but then, I don’t read Harlequins) – may I recommend Paladin of Souls, by Lois Bujold for a fascinating take on the Heroine’s Journey (as distinct from the Hero’s Journey in fancy dress) — it deals with an older woman who is escaping from being over-protected, to find her own power and worth.
Yeah, there’s a lot of drivel out there – in any genre – but there can also be a lot of good, thought-provoking writing that just happens to have a happy ending. It all depends on where you look for it.
The writer who supposedly invented the Regency Romance is Georgette Heyer.
As we know it now–yes, that is the general consensus. Overall, the academic consensus would credit Jane Austen with creating it. Some scholars even trace the origin of the current romance novel itself to her.
She wrote books set in other times, too, but she got regencies started as good novels with complete characters living in an ineteresting world. She would be ashamed, I am sure, to see what the genre has degenerated into.
It sort of depends on the kind of Regency you’re talking about. The titles put out by houses like Avon are definitely more sexual than Heyer’s books.
However, there are entire publishing lines dedicated to writing Heyeresque Regencies. The stories and style are very similar, and would mostly garner G-ratings. They’re just not as well-written most of the time. Mary Balogh and Gayle Wilson are two of the better authors.
She wrote well, and deserves more recognition than she gets these days. My family strongly recommends that you give her a try.
Agreed, 100%. Her writing wouldn’t win a Nobel, but it was very good compared to now. Her touch was lovely, and her historical research impeccable. A sample of her Regency books is here.
Get ready for the Jane Austen Drinking Game!
Heyer wrote some nice whodunnits as well. I discovered her while in Bath (which is inordinately proud of Austen as it happens, but I’ven’t read her – yet).
there are romance novels set among the Amish now, too…
and are there “magic-garment rippers” set among the Mormons?
As an addition to the discussion about bodice rippers, and related to Sven’s question about “magic-garment rippers”: There was a discussion recently at Bitch Magazine about the oddity of the “Forever Your Girl” syndrome. The discussion includes some feminist and anti-feminist writing from the 1960s, plus a discussion of the sneakily mormon “Twilight” series. The worship of eternal youthfulness (read “childishness”) in women, the odd combination of offering sex while denying it, the need for protection from a man — all these issues come up. As far as I can tell, the ideal ripper of one’s bodice is a vampire because he can rip your bodice with his teeth, grant you eternal youth (read “eternal innocence”), and can offer you more protection than mormon garmies.
Another thing to learn from the mormon author of the Twilight series is that remaining a virgin is a high ideal, while making millions selling sexually titillating (but never consummated) teen sex to girls is the highest ideal. Oh, yes, and prolonged denial of one’s sexual urges renders females highly attractive to werewolves.
Poetry for our Bodice Ripper discussion … written with tongue firmly in cheek:
BODICE RIPPER
Each kiss from my deep-hearted lover
Surprises the sleeping soul in me.
Knitted together with light,
We sway like leaves in the moonlit air.
The gods acknowledge in every
Sweetened stroke and lambent caress
That in a moment there is timelessness.
When one who loves me kisses me
The earth turns more perfectly
In its course through the languid heavens.
Becca #284
‘Yeah, there’s a lot of drivel out there – in any genre’
Sturgeon’s Law
it would be nice to be that person with brains, a personality, and looks that make perfect strangers undress you with their eyes. – Brownian, OM
I supervised* a (male) PhD student who fits that description. Just as well I’m strictly het.
*Well, when I say “supervised”, I mostly watched and admired as he organised his own research, wrote up, and got through his oral with no corrections.
A contribution to the discussion of experiences during high school:
The girl that sat behind me in French class was not a good student, but she was useful for practical advice. She knew about tampons instead of pads. The day before we graduated, her boyfriend had caught her with an older man and had beaten the guy so badly that her bra, lying on the bed, collected blood in the cups.
I knew the girl behind me well, knew her used breasts and sex were still somehow innocent and ignorant. She was a babe in the Alaskan woods. She didn’t harbor remorse as far as the beating went, only that she had to take special care to wash the blood out of her bra. I stored her right-away-cold-water-soak advice for blood stains. She was a teenage relationship virgin. Men might fight over her, but it was just one more thing on her way to growing up in the last frontier.
She was secretly pleased to have a boyfriend that beat the blood out of another guy. I knew he would have beaten any guy over any girl and might never remember if it had been over her.
I gave her paper or a pen, or both, from my book bag every day.
Tired of bodice-ripper romance novels?
Try something new.
And supernaturally great sex! Don’t forget that! The (modern) werewolf appeals for many of the same reasons; and so, we have the Fang Porn (excuse me, I do mean “Supernatural Romance”) genre. What ordinary, mortal, man can possibly compete?
Now I’m off to follow Sili’s link at 274.
I love/hate those types, Knockgoats. Part of me wants to destroy them out of jealousy (“This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you, asshole!”) but the other part of me is struck still just watching them. Besides, they’re too damn nice to really hate.
One day I was at a video store with my ex and when we got to the counter I espied some bars of white chocolate for sale. I picked one up and heard a voice say, “Trust me: even if you don’t rent a movie, buy the chocolate; it’s that good.” I looked up into the blue eyes of a 20-year-old Matthew McConaughey look-alike (except with personality) and I actually swooned. “You, um, you like chocolate?” I stammered, twirling a curl of hair around one finger. The poor kid was immediately weirded out, and my girlfriend had to pay up and drag me out of store by my arm while I just stared at this poor, gorgeous boy. Honestly, I could have spent the rest of my life staring at him and felt it was a good use of my days.
I was talking to two of my coworkers, both female, one in a committed relationship with her female partner the other some kind of overly resourceful übermensch with a ecohippie vibe about how they would respond to the young boy hero fantasy, in which a young boy, not quite knowing how to relate to girls, fantasizes that the object of his affection is threatened by some sort of danger that he can swoop in and defeat, and thus win the girl’s love. They were mystified that any girl would really want to be rescued and fall in love with their rescuer. I’ll have to pass on your story, Lynna.
aaand he’s kind of a dick.
The reviews to this “sequel” are hilarious btw, I’m almost tempted to read it:
http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Darcy-Takes-Wife-Prejudice/dp/1402202733/
If your nametag doesn’t have Rorschach on it, then I’m going to be mightily confused.
Really? The shifting inkblot mask won’t be enough?
When I was in seventh grade, I somehow ended up trading book recommendations with a young lady my age. I got her into MZB, Andre Norton, Ursla LeGuin, Piers Anthony, and a lot of other stuff. She recommended Austen, Bronte, Steinbeck, Dickens, Barbara Hambly, and a bunch of forgettable romance novels. And then one day she recommended this:
I was scarred for life.
llewelly: the Angélique books had most of that AND thieves, harlots, alchemy, poison, chocolate and the Inquisition. Oh and instead of Regency England and a piddling sheik: the court of Louis XIV and the Sultan of Morocco. Top that!
Duh! I didn’t realise this was the latest incarnation of the Endless Thread. I’ve caught up now.
I’m seriously angry at anyone driving under sleep deprivation – David Marjanović
I second that. The two times I’ve nearly been killed (but escaped without injury to self or others by sheer good luck), that has been the cause. The first time it was me – driving a truck on a temporary job that involved a nasty shift pattern. I carried on driving because I wanted to keep the job – and woke up with the truck barrelling along the pavement [sidewalk]. Fortunately, at 6am, no-one was on it. Second time my lover at that time was driving, we’d made a very early start and both fell asleep, when she did, the car slewed right across a dual carriageway and into a ditch.
Schooldays and decades… I think there must be less nerd-bullying in the UK, or was then, than in the US and Oz. I never got picked on for that, but this was the late ’60s-early ’70s, when being macho wasn’t so cool, and I got in with the post-hippy crowd – I was a bit too young for the summers of ’67 (love) and ’68 (revolution), unfortunately. My teens and early twenties weren’t great though, because I started losing my hair at 14. Not very noticeable until I was about 18, and no doubt if I hadn’t, I’d have worried about some other aspect of my appearance – but not great for the confidence. Really, I think every decade since then has been better, at least up to the ’40s – can’t yet judge them against the half-completed ’50s. I’m really looking forward to my ’60s, when I won’t have an employer and can do the research I want to do – but then, fate may well be waiting round the corner with a sock full of sand!
I recently met a guy who, in my admittedly suspicious opinion, fits Brownian’s description almost perfectly. Okay, so maybe he doesn’t exactly make strangers undress him with their eyes, but he’s good-looking and caught my eye immediately. He definitely has a personality and, well, I admire his brain. I found him, um, interesting. Oh, and he knows how to make me laugh, which is probably what most attracts me in a man.
So, I thought he was perfect. But I was wrong, as I discovered last week when we were happily chatting about books and I found out that he loves Dan Brown. I told him I had never read any of Dan Brown’s books* and wasn’t particularly interested either, but he promptly offered to lend me one. Oh well, if you ever see me praising Dan Brown’s writing or something like that… just don’t hit me to hard, okay? People are allowed to do very silly things when they’re in love**, right?
*Brownian, Aquaria, Nerd: do you remember?
**Fuck. I guess I wasn’t supposed to write that. For the record, I’m not admitting anything. Shut up! No, I’m not!
I love/hate those types, Knockgoats. Part of me wants to destroy them out of jealousy (“This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you, asshole!”) but the other part of me is struck still just watching them. Besides, they’re too damn nice to really hate. – Brownian, OM
As is maybe obvious, my reaction was really a quasi-paternal pride – the age gap is sufficient for me to have been his father, anyway.
I don’t blame you, I do realize that I’m a bad driver at times. Would you like to hear my excuse?
I found out that he loves Dan Brown. – Dania
Hmm, that’s not so much a flaw as a crevasse! He’s not worthy of you, Dania :-p
(Seriously, almost everyone has some literary tastes they should be ashamed of – I’m not about to reveal mine – but try to find out what he likes about DB.)
I thought you were talking about me and was wondering when we’d met until you got to the Dan Brown bit. Clearly, I’ve been imperfectly cloned.
Mine were Hustler and Penthouse Letters, but only until I found a store from which I could buy/steal more upscale and tasteful porn.
Easily, and with first-class writing skill.
The Lymond Chronicles of Dorothy Dunnett.
What did I win?
The Connell’s “Over There”:
Oh, I certainly will try. It’s a mystery to me why such an intelligent guy would like DB so much, but no one is perfect. Although some claim to be… ;)
What about newspaper obituaries ? I can spend a surprising amount of time glancing through them.
Damn it, I’m still waiting for Cath the Canberra Cook to come back and clarify whether she got the name wrong or there’s someone out there pretending to be me.
I’m having visions (mostly from low-level sleep deprivation; I’ve seen 10 Fringe shows in 5 days) of myself flying to Canberra and lurking around atheist haunts, just waiting for this person to introduce himself to someone as Wowbagger, OM so I can leap out and yell ‘impostor!’ at him in an accusatory tone.
Then, if he tries to claim he is the real Wowbagger, I’ll demand he prove it on the field of battle – that’s right, I’ll challenge him to…a snark-off!
Brownian, OM | February 23, 2010 4:58 PM:
Cheap-ass government clones never do have the same mitochondrial DNA. Causes all sorts of weird problems.
Language Log on Dan Brown:
Oh, I’ve never claimed to be perfect. More specifically, I have a Becker’s nevus over my left scapula which ever-so-slightly mars the delicate light olive tone of my skin. It’s heartbreaking to witness lovers of mine encounter it for the first time, their innocent mouths agape as if just noticing a hairline flaw in a living diamond. Some take it in stride: grieving, adapting and moving on, eventually recognising like ancient Chinese astronomers the sun indeed has spots. Others…well, others of a more delicate constitution were less able to adapt. My only hope is that psychotherapy might one day advance enough to help them.
Betcha that’s what Wowbagger’s dealing with now (comment #314).
There are ways to tell, Wowbagger: Is there always two of you just a-hangin’ around? Is every chromosome a hand-me-down?
ok, I haven’t actually read them, but I have to admit that I loved the movies when I was a teen.
That, or a transporter malfunction.
Feynmaniac,
I adore the Language Log analyses of Dan Brown. I probably go back and read them every couple of months.
One of my literary-minded friends and I had lunch one day while I had a copy of it (despite my snarky attitude I won’t criticise something unless I’ve actually read it) and we took turns passing it back and forth, opening it to random passages, reading them out loud in mock-serious voices – and laughing uproariously.
My current guilty-pleasure fiction reading includes psychological crime thrillers like those of Jonathan Kellerman and Jeffrey Deaver; however, I have to confess that I haven’t always had such a high brow, since I spent much of my youth reading execrable fantasy and horror.
Wowbagger, if you like psychological crime thrillers, try Elizabeth George with Inspector Lynnley and Sgt. Havers.
Happy Threadmas eve everybody. Happy Monkey.
Dania:
I have to admit to listening to several hours of Moody Blues with a shiny new girlfriend for exactly that reason. Love puts bad, bad chemicals in your brain.
Josh, OSG: You have mail and recipes. :D
does moving thousands of miles count? first time was 5600miles (9000km); second time was 1000miles (1500km)
Sigh. Yes.
700 miles the first time. 1000 miles the second time. I would do it again, many times over, for the right guy.
transporter malfunction.?
BS
MAJeff and Ichthyic expressed interest in a torrent of Jesus of Montreal. So here are several.
My ex-flatmate – a French-Canadian chiropractor (make of that what you will) – is an extra in that. I have no idea which scene(s) though; he never elaborated – and I’ve never seen it.
Congratulations to Dania :-) <duck & cover>
Eh, but, chocolate is good for you. Beyond merely making you happy, it contains flavonoids – red wine without the alcohol, if you know what I mean. And the theobromine is sufficiently poisonous to keep your mouth bacteria down. The dentists are amazed at my teeth, and I only brush them once a day because I can’t fast long between meals…
No idea what effect it has on gut bacteria.
Dioxygen difluoride <drool> – “violently hideous” indeed!
“Well, ‘often’ is sort of a relative term. Most of the references to this stuff are clearly from groups who’ve just been thinking about it, not making it.”
“And he’s just getting warmed up, if that’s the right phrase to use for something that detonates things at -180[ °]C”
I have to stop here to avoid quoting the whole post. It’s so mind-blowing, I don’t understand why anyone would need LSD for! :-D
Well, I can’t resist quoting this bit:
“But I do note that if you run the structure through SciFinder, it comes out with a most unexpected icon that indicates a commercial supplier. That would be the Hangzhou Sage Chemical Company. They offer it in 100g, 500g, and 1 kilo amounts, which is interesting, because I don’t think a kilo of dioxygen difluoride has ever existed. Someone should call them on this – ask for the free shipping, and if they object, tell them Amazon offers it on this item. Serves ’em right. Morons.”
Hángzhōu, ancient city in China, known for its fine silk and its violently hideous… ROTFLMAO! X-D X-D X-D
BTW, when he says “ever”, he means it.
And from the first comment…
“I would like to order a couple of kilos of FOOF from Hangzhou Sage Chemical just to see the crater on Google Maps.”
One word: chlorine trifluoride.
B-)
No. You should have stayed in that place and slept.
From the links at the bottom…
Renowned author Dan Brown staggered through his formulaic opening sentence.
Wikipedia.
Reminds me of how The Eye of Argon is said to be traditionally read.
I know someone who flew from France to Mexico nine times to convince a girl to move over to him, just because her beauty had blown him away. Worked (for a few years).
I just stumbled upon a rather interesting graph mapping distribution of income by religious belief in the U.S.
If by “other” they mean non-believers, then we are remarkably average. Apparently, converting to Hinduism or Judaism may have some material benefit.
I did San Francisco – Montreal once a month for 8 months to visit the boyfriend who couldn’t get a visa to move with me to the US.
Until I decided I had enough.
I then rented a car in Montreal and put the boyfriend in the trunk and imported him ilegally. We didn’t get caught.
Does that count as very silly thing when you’re in love ?
Thanks Brownian. Even Worse was the first album I ever bought, and for a long time it was my favorite. Haven’t thought of it in a long time though.
David Marjanović wrote:
Damn you; I found an online copy of that and am now trying very hard not to injure myself laughing at how wretched it is. But you know what? As bad as it is it’s still only marginally less so than the first* Twilight book…
*I only made myself read the one. I got a few pages into the second and a vampire was explaining how he couldn’t believe the Christian god couldn’t exist (and wasn’t his enemy); I gave up then and there.
Did you know that Bill’s name was originally William Shatnerthewoods? You can learn this interesting (puerile) tidbit and more in the year 2000 (contents may not be suitable for adults).
I can’t imagine moving thousands of miles for someone. I can’t imagine flying transnational once a month for someone. I know people do things like this when they are in love, and I suppose, I can’t strictly rule out the possibility that I might. But I can’t imagine a feeling that would inspire me to do that.
well, here’s the thing: I like traveling and I like moving to new places. There’s a million things that would have been more difficult for me than moving halfway across the world. Shoot, if I didn’t have a boyfriend, I’d be applying to universities all over the world just for the fuck of it(not that most of them would want me, but possibilities are exciting all by themselves). As it is, I’m only applying to NDSU for now.
I guess it would make more sense to say that not moving on every whim is more in line with the “things I’d do for love” stuff. But it sounds less impressive than moving :-p
In my case: absolute, crawling desperation. But see, it led to me meeting Mrs. Fire later on, so I would do it all again.
The ultimate Shatner mash-up:
http://jeffburk.wordpress.com/shatnerquake/
*makes sign of crossed tentacles*
Can’t even warm that shit up to dry-ice acetone. The O-O bond just 2 pm longer than the double bond in O2. Dang, that sounds dangerous.
*Backs slowly away from the thread*
Kwok is at Good Math, Bad Math:
Oh, Kwok. You might have made a decent ally if not for those glaring personality issues.
where have I heard that bewfore…?
All I can say is: land of the free my ass.
– w
+ 1
= 27745
The Threadmas eve question, will we get to 28,000 posts by the time Watchman was posted? +1
Good night friends.
‘Night ‘Tis.
Just think: When you wake in the morning, it will be Threadmas Day!
And my socks are all folded in the drawer with due care.
In hopes that the poopyhead soon will be there…
The First Post was Posted at 10:28 PM blogtime, so we have just under 24 hours to post about 250 comments…no problem recently. If the Aussies have a few they could do it before I wake up tomorrow. (wait…everybody gets the same EST timestamp as I do, right?)
+1
Which snark-off must be recorded, and posted to YouTube.
I’m going to leave a platter of bacon out for the poopyhead. And a flagon of grog.
I hope he leaves me something nice in my sock. (I don’t wear “stockings”.)
Well, now I’ll post just to add to the total.
That’s the spirit, bg! Man, you know, if only we could get der Binger to sing our Threadmas carol…
if only we had a Threadmas carol…
or even, like, a Threadmas tune.
We could hum it.
Or whistle it.
Plunk it out on an old piano.
I’m just brainstorming here.
And commenting.
hokay
in the interest of advancing the thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ZX5qdIEB0&feature=related
+1
Oh poopyhead,
Oh poopyhead,
We love to give you page hits.
Oh poopyhead,
Oh poopyhead,
We watch you bash Creationists.
All through the day
The snark burns bright
And comments go
All through the night
Oh poopyhead,
Oh poopyhead,
You are the best bloggy scientist.
der Binger? I always thought it was der Bingle.
Jadehawk,
That was interesting. Combining the Inspector Gadget theme with Axel F in beatbox format on the flute. Someone’s got too much time on their hands.
Oh. Wait… I resemble that remark.
Joy to the Thread,
New post has come.
Let commenting begin!
While trolls flail sadly
And fundies argue badly
We talk about fun stuff
Rocks, ships and songs and fluff,
And we’ll keep on typing
Sitting on our duff.
Grandma got run over by a comment
Walking home from our house Threadmas Eve
You may say there’s no such thing as Poopyhead
But as for me and Grandpa, we believe
This is a poem called Fibonacci
1…
1…
2…
Whoa – as we celebrate Threadmas, all is not well at the R.D. Corral – Death of the Dawkins forum – The world’s busiest atheist forum closes.
3…
5…
Thinking about Aquaria’s comments regarding Darcy, I’ve realised there is not one but two Austen-themed shows on during the Fringe: Austen’s Women, a one-woman show about 11 (IIRC) different characters, including Lizzy Bennett; and Austen Found, a musical written from the ‘lost’ writings of Jane Austen. The former I saw on last weekend; the latter I’ll see next weekend.
Really, the only Austen character I’m especially familiar with is Frank Churchill, since I played him in a stage adaptation of Emma.
There may be consequences for this kind of behavior.
8…
(Is this helping increase the thread-count, or is this just some stupid crap? I need to go to bed soon)
Carlie 369:
Whoa. Bad news indeed. From your link:
Damn. I’ve seen the same shit pulled on other forums I was once part of, it’s always a death knell. What a pity.
Yes.
Wow Carlie. No offense to Richard Dawkins who I greatly respect and who I realize had very little role in the mess, but that was a really shitty thing to do to the atheist community. I just can’t believe they actually blocked private messaging, deleted accounts, and hid signatures in a sweeping move to disable organized resistance to the changes.
Bad King Poopyhead looked out
On the feast of Threadmas
When the posts lay round about
Deep and weird and endless
Brightly shone the moon that night
Though the frost was cruel
When a poor man came in sight
Writing Christian stool
“Hither, troll, and stand by me
If thou know’st it, telling
Yonder godhead, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?”
“Sire, he lives a good league hence
Underneath the mountain
Right against the forest fence
By Saint Agnes’ fountain.”
“Bring me flesh and bring me wine
Bring me frackin’ crackers
Thou and I will see divine
When we solve these matters.”
Troll and monarch, forth they went
Forth they went together
Thro’ apologetic rants
And the bitter weather.
“Sire, the Thread is darker now
And your point is stronger
Fails my heart, I know not how
I can go no longer.”
“Mark my footsteps, my dumb troll
Tread thou in them boldly
Thou shalt find atheism’s toll
Freeze thy blood less coldly.”
In his master’s steps he trod
Where the squid had printed
None could be the very god
Which the troll had minted.
Therefore, atheists, be sure
Wealth or rank possessing
Ye who now will help the poor
Shall be soon progressing.
+1
The news about the RD forums is distressing. I’ve heard rumors elsewhere but figured they were just that; rumors. Dawkins needs to go BDFL on their ass and make things right.
Holy fucking Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Now I’m glad I never participated at richarddawkins.net. If they started deleting entire accounts, including thousands of comments by people whose writing I appreciated, I would be fit to be tied.
Start writing rebuttals for the anti-atheist talking points this event will result in.
I’ve heard rumors elsewhere but figured they were just that; rumors.
I tried going to RDnet around the time “AirFarce Dave Hawkins” was making the rounds there.
It became immediately clear that the mods there were complete asshats.
Haven’t gone back since.
that was what… 3 or 4 years ago?
Cephalopod bless us, every one!
Now give me my roasted PZ with all the trimmings
Wait – have I got that right?
All I want for Threadmas is peezee’s new book, peezee’s new book, yes peezee’s new book!
(Or a hug will do, a virtual hug for a fanboi even though I know it creeps the poopyhead out when random strangers ask him for hugs.)
d’oh!
+1
strange gods before me @ 380:
I never posted there, but read for a long time, mostly because of Calilasseia’s awesome takedowns of various creationists. I was familiar with Calilasseia from a couple of other forums, and the posts were always a great read and informative. I hope Rationalia takes off and becomes a good new home for all those displaced so rudely.
But there was no suitable lodging area. :'(
(do you still in tend to kick my stomach in?)
If everyone else jumped off of a bridge I would too, so here’s a Threadmas Carol for y’all.
Twelve days of Threadmas
12 Disemvowelings
11 Trolls complaining
10 Tentacled squid
9 Creationist screams
8 Panda trials
7 Deranged Xians
6 Blasphemous posts
5 Turbaconduckens
4 Missing links
3 Fracking crackers
2 Cuttlefish
and a copy of PZ’s long awaited book.
…OK, now I’ve read the story behind the RDF forum.
http://realityismyreligion.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/locked-entry-will-open-soon/
I have to say, I’m completely shocked!
I’ve never seen such a poor decision by a webmaster (Josh Timonen) that was handled in an even poorer fashion!
Seriously, deleting dissenter accounts, summarily dumping all the mods, lying to the forum participants about how they would have input on the new structure… it just goes on and on.
my jaw is on the ground.
This will financially impact RDF significantly. I find it hard to believe Richard, who often championed the forum himself, had any knowledge of this, but even so… one has to wonder how he could let someone like Josh basically shoot his own foundation in the foot like that.
wow.
WOW.
That book dedication must have went to his head.
Indeed, why not? There’d be a nice squishy pile of bodies to break your fall at that point.
Hmm, I think – thanks to Pygmy Loris’s lyrical skills – we’ve got ourselves our first drinking song for the GAC…
sgbm,
ROTFL!
Wowbagger,
*blushes* glad to be of service (curtsies)
you can hide behind me, after I tell him the story of me driving half the way from Seattle to North Dakota with only one break for a short nap.
In defense of GHP and Jadehawk I am going to divulge that I fell asleep at the wheel exactly one time. It was very late, I was less than a mile from home and thought I could make it. I was only asleep for maybe 5 seconds (based on the last thing I remember and where I was when I woke up), but waking up, luckily in my own lane (thank FSM for good wheel alignment and straight roads), was one of the scariest things that ever happened to me. Images of hitting someone else flashed through my mind, and I barely slept for days. That was more than ten years ago and I have pulled over and napped every single time I have felt too tired to continue driving since then no matter how close to home I was.
One other time my friend and I were coming back from a road trip and she fell asleep at the wheel. I didn’t realize she wasn’t awake until we hit the rumble strip on the interstate. That was another very scary experience seeing as how I was trying to both wake her up and control the car from the passenger seat at the same time.
He’ll have to come through me to get to y’all after I disclose that I once drove from Fargo to San Francisco non-stop except for fuel-ups back in ’91.
Twenty six hours of drive time. Oh, the glorious, wonderful powers of youth!*
*not to mention the stupidity and recklessness of doing so in order to get to a concert on time
Carlie @ 369,
from the linked blog post :
This is a bit hard to believe.It’s clumsy and awkward in a Ladenesque way, if it really happened that way. I can’t imagine Prof Dawkins would be too pleased with Josh at all.
Animal “rights” activists threaten children.
I think I’ve found the cause (and workaround) for a certain kind of blockquote failure.
Handing out leaflets at Ringach’s children’s school is stupid, uncouth, and not just a little bit creepy, but it doesn’t amount to “threatening” anyone.
Threats are illegal. The proposed activism is still protected speech under the First Amendment.
Hmmmmm, funny shirts !!!!
(Front page NSFW)
On second consideration, I apologize for misusing the word the “threaten”.
I agree with strange gods. As much as I despise the “animal rights” brigade, freedom of speech applies to everyone, not just to people we like.
Possibly, the best test case for a person’s real commitment to free speech is Fred Phelps and his band of deranged homophobes. Since no one (even other evangelical Christians) actually likes Phelps or supports his message, and there is no popularity to be gained from defending his right to protest at funerals, it is only the most courageous and sincere defenders of free speech who will actually stand up for his right to protest.
When the “Respect for America’s Fallen Heroes Act” was put to a vote, which prevented Phelps from protesting at funerals, it was passed overwhelmingly in the House by 408 to 3. There were only three Congressmen who cared about free speech enough to risk unpopularity by opposing the bill: Ron Paul, Barney Frank, and a congressman from Oregon named David Wu. While both Paul and Frank hold plenty of loony beliefs (I don’t know about Wu, since I’d never heard of him before), I respect the fact that they stood up for free speech when no one else would, in a situation where they knew it would be unpopular and politically difficult to do so.
My mom used to fall asleep at the wheel regularly; she had narcolepsy (fortunately I seem to be out of the woods for it myself). When I was a little girl I remember Mom basically driving us someplace random from time to time. Automatic behavior, it’s called. She actually drove just fine, but I shudder to think what would have happened had some emergency happened while she was in that state. When she woke back up, she would sigh, pull over, and gather herself for a second, then we’d go have ice cream or something.
Gem :
Josephine Baker–The times they are a’changin, live 1973
Happy Threadmas, everyone!
I have a webmeeting in 15 minutes, drat Dubai and their outlandish time zone….
Happy Threadmass and many more.
The thing I noticed about Josh Timmons’ takedown of the RDnet forum was this:
In other words, we’re screwing you and don’t complain to the boss because we did this when he was out of the country.
The Richard Dawkins Foundation may never recover.
Oh, happy Threadmas is it ? Time is flying when you have no life, it seems.
Well then, back to the beginnings.
Watchmen–The times they are a-changin’
Watchmen–Sound of silence
Watchmen–You’re locked in here with me !
Well,I guess they will be fine eventually, but the damage done to the forum, which while a bit tone-concerned at times, was something like Pharyngula’s comment section in the end, a free haven for atheists and freethinkers and all that, is going to be much bigger.
I read that they prevented posters from exchanging contact details, people like us here, who had been gathering there and exchanging thoughts for years and stuff, trying to find a way of staying in contact, now that is fucked up.
I’m very angry at this actually.
There appears to be a SIMOTI* pandemic.
Is it true that the thousands of posts of users who have been deleted are gone forever? That is awful.
*Someone is Megalomaniacal on the Internet
I couldn’t deal with the nested comments and eye-watering graphics at RDF so, apart from occasionally glancing at it, I didn’t spend much time there. But it’s a shame that it’s gone because it was a community.
One of the reasons this is the site I spend 99% of my time on is it that – most of the time at least – it’s just text. I fucking hate coloured emoticons, signatures and avatars!
Exactly the same for me. The set-up of a forum just confuses me, too – I don’t know how to find anything. I have a strong personal preference for this arragement. I’m sure that kind of system is structurally more organized, but I prefer to organize things conceptually myself.
Wow.
This is making me very sad and casting a pall over Threadmas.
Walton,
Wow, I actually agree with Walton!
Often times when Phelps’ gang shows up people hold counter protests (including having gay people make out in front of them). Other times people just ignore them. There are better ways to deal with them without limiting free speech.
apropos de nada:
Squeeze – Tempted
+1
We wish you a merry threadmas
We wish you a merry threadmas
We wish you a merry threadmas
With much bacon and beer
Weird earworms we bring
And Mormons in bling
Weird earworms for threadmas
Why am I still here?
(/Oh bring us some squiddy pudding…)
I once fell asleep at the wheel for ~35 minutes on 1-70 W in western Kansas.
I also once drove from Cape Town to Johannesburg in a day. The only stops were for fuel and peppersteak pies, and one stop when I totaled a rental car in Bloemfontein and got another one from a nearby airport. Late that night, I also totaled a bunkbed in a backpacker.
I had been driving for for forty years when I finally fell asleep at the wheel.
I’ll get my coat.
+ 2
told you so
13…
Whatever that means, I hope there was awesome sex involved.
11…
Happy Monkey, Merry Threadmas
although it doesn’t seem to be starting out all that fucking MERRY
(although thanks for the excellent hymnal of Threadmas carols…my one editorial suggestion is that in the 12 days thing, 5 has to be three syllables only to facilitate the optimal drunken-singing situation)
First my spanking new (leased) lenovo&#trade; gets all freezy and then I finally get in for my Am Tubes fix and teh CO’s front page is all about asshole animal rights fuckheads and then the Dawkins-forums thing (*shrug* what Wow and SC sez).
I suppose teh CO ought to be rolling out a black carpet for the cyberhomeless atheists now wandering about in a shellshocked daze who are sure to follow the smell of bacon over here.
And then the whole asleep-at-the-wheel phenom (I’d link that to the excellent Western-Swing band but I’m kind of in a hurry here). I have done many, many crazy night drives (and here if I wasn’t in a hurry I’d link to the guy from Austin via Stillwater whose band is called The Night Drive but whose name I forget at the moment) to get to turtles, shows, gigs, and solitude but I only fell asleep once. Scariest fucking 30 seconds I ever hope to have. About an hour south of Nashville heading north from Birmingham to Lansing, didn’t have a caffeine habit yet, grazed a rock and rolled my Corolla back toward the highway…landed rightside up with a glass-cut on my shoulder and otherwise *shrug* lucky. There are a lot of step drop-offs along that road and I would have just gone sailing out there (25 pts for reference).
Um, OK, gotta go, and this makes um 27826 or so.
I’m not even previewing! If the trademark symbol works it’s pure win!
A hundred and eighty more posts or bust.
*looks around for the welcome carpet*
Perhaps PZ took it to the dry cleaners after failing to rinse out all the troll blood.
Watch out, Cuttlefish! Carlie, Mr T, and Pygmy Loris are coming. :-)
So… the fluorine atoms are barely bound to the oxygens at all? :-S
Yes.
From there…
Evil. Fucking evil. Timonen and Chalkley must be fired right fucking now. It doesn’t impact me personally (I’ve never tried to comment there, I’m spending enough time over here…), but evil is evil.
How is it possible to be that callous? Are they glibertarians, too?
…Also from there…
I want to get violent.
The post goes on to wonder how much Dawkins knows about all this.
:-D :-D :-D
(Disclaimer: This was written before I read about the RD forum. Now I can’t laugh anymore. Grrr.)
Your car…?
And a few breaks for eating, drinking, and the like, I suppose…? 1000 km in a day is feasible that way. Did you do 2000? One day and one night?
<facepalm>
Not all at once, people! I’m too tired* to kick you all around! At most I might be able to finally accept Jadehawk’s offer from months ago and bite her! :.-(
* Why actually? Am I exhausted because the weather does a 180° turn every half hour today?
<snort>
No, see my comments in that thread. Bizarrely, it really does seem to depend on the browser used to submit the comment.
<snort> Sometime during the first period of Bush the Lesser I said “hero” only means “dead American” anymore. Looks like I’m officially right.
So… condescending… so… callous…
Evil.
B-)
So… the street was so straight and empty and your wheels so perfectly aligned that you survived it? I mean, I’m not actually sure you survived it, but… ;-)
<headshake>
Yay, it’s Threadmas Day! We’ve been stuffing threads for a whole year!
Let’s keep on stuffing. :)
Huh. Mine never does that, nor does my sister’s.
“Trade” isn’t a number; it’s ™ without the #.
Forgot to mention what I ate yesterday… I was invited at my supervisor’s and got a soup with cilantro. Not a Chinese one, and apparently not peppered, yet it tasted like those Chinese soups with a very strong spicy taste that I had attributed to loads of pepper. I took some of the cilantro out and ate it just so. Apparently that’s the taste.
Which makes me the only person on teh whole wide intarwebz who’s both able to taste the “bitter, soapy” component of cilantro and (to some extent) likes it!!! Hahaaaa! <mad-scientist cackling>
hey I also had a soup with cilantro yesterday. It must have been cilantro-soup-day yesterday in France.
It wasn’t chinese either, but thai. A tom yam soup with shrimps, cilantro and lemon grass.
Didn’t notice the “bitter, soapy” component of cilantro but I do like the taste of it.
Hmmm – I think it’s possible to sing “Ce-pha-lo-po-des” as “Adeste fideles”, but my Latin is not good enough to follow it up.
What the squid’s got into Timonnen? I thought he was supposed to be one of the good guys. Wanker.
–o–
I used to be very frugal as a kid, while my sister was more spendthrift. Now she drives a hard bargain, while I lurrrve stuff*. I have porcelain that I’m never likely to use much. Ties that I have worn at most once and more shoes than any straight man should have. It’s been a good while since I bought any of it, though. But I’m not exactly living according to my means. Doesn’t help that I decided to begin the month by wasting an inordinate amount on a woman of ill repute.
Never was very charitable, but have given to Donors Choose when encouraged by bloggers**.
–o–
I had a pretty comfortable – even spoilt – childhood, despite the dreadful economy (interest was over 20% for a while and small farming doesn’t exactly pay). I was not really happy at school, though. But not all unhappy either, I guess. Pretty meh.
I was teased a lot for some years. I recall being very upset with the busdriver, but I no longer know exactly what he did to me. But the bus stopped being three by year three, so I must have been less than ten when I insisted my parents write and complain – they didn’t.
Likewise I don’t recall when the teasing began, but I think it was around year five the that I somehow realised that my crying just made it that much more fun to pick on me. After that I guess I hardened myself more. Supposedly I used irony at a younger age than what is supposed to be developmentally possible, so perhaps that explains my increasing sarcasm to use as a shield. When I stopped being fun teasing, I guess I did develop a bit of friendship even with some of the bullies, but I’ve never had close friends.
I was decidedly nerdy and that didn’t diminish with age. By sixth form I’d pretty much isolated myself completely – I’d already stopped going to birthday and class parties before that; I really didn’t like music and dancing and thus I never developed any socialising skills; the county parties/dances were no draw either.
We had a session with a guidance councellor (I think) at some point – my French and Religion teacher (at least I think I had her for Religion as well). She mentioned some time later that she’d paid notice to my reply to the task of drawing social diagrams – not sure why, though. Perhaps I was more perspicacious than I thought. I couldn’t reconstruct it now – I can barely recall people’s names – but I do recall putting myself off to the side with some other nerds; they socialised, though.
I never participated in the graduation ceremony – I just picked up my grade sheet some days later (when I needed it to apply to uni, and school hadn’t sent it to). Nor did I get the traditional hat, nor the commemorative sweatshirt. For some reason I do remember the motive, though: That third year we had a student moved over from another class – I guess he didn’t get along with them. He was pretty much only interested in drawing, so he drew the design. It was a big nest with caricatures of us. I was sitting under the tree, though, hunched over my desk with my big spectacles. Two of the other ‘nerds’ were lowering the third on a fishing line with binoculars to espy what it was I was writing***.
So, yeah, I’ve never had it as bad as some people here, so I’m not exactly in a position to whine.
* I also have a stack of doujinshi from when I got into fandom. Never gonna be able to read them, and the people I intended to share them with have pretty much dropped out of this particular niche of the Internet. And I have lost contact with them. So it goes.
** Speaking of which “Magnificent Math” didn’t gather enough donations and I’ve just had my small contribution returned. Same day as I received a thank-you letter for another project along with a $25 ‘Giving Card’. Pity.
*** Not really fair. Noöne never cheated by getting my answers.
If we’re doing Threadmas Carols we need a brief salute to the acknowledged king of the carols, Walk Kelly: http://www.pogopossum.com/deckus.htm
Note the Molly reference AND the beer reference. I firmly believe that a close textual analysis, properly performed, would also confirm a bacon reference.
That’s weird. I always thought that the only explanation for the existence of cilantro-loving people was that they were unable to taste its “soapy” component (thus not knowing that the stuff they’re ingesting doesn’t taste like food at all).
21…
(negentropyeater: my sequence can’t be fscked with)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Tomyamkung_JPN.jpg
?
I noticed a post by Rev. BDC on an old Ken Ham post. Turned out our old friend, who helped to start the thread, Roger S, had posted. Drop by and wish him a happy Threadmas.
I do not mind a pinch of cilantro in Thai and Indian food. I can’t stand it, not a little bit, in Italian and Mexican food. The fact that I can eat any at all is an improvement; I used to gag uncontrollably if I tasted even a little bit.
Also a cracker is mentioned…spooky.
Asleep at the Wheel
34…
Am I the only one feeling a bit sad that our favorite geologist isn’t here to celebrate Threadmas with us?
55…
Okay, what happened here? What did Laden do?
Cilantro, cilantro…an official Threadmas Day food? Along with bacon and lesbians?
In any case, I’m going to have phở with a lesbian for lunch today. If that’s not a tradional Threadmas meal, it should be.
Browninan, you must tell me where you dine. My favorite place to have phở doesn’t even have lesbians on the menu.
the only breaks were for getting gas. pee-breaks were combined with gas-breaks, and food was eaten while driving. we did the trip in something like 25 hours, and the only longer break was a 2-3 hour nap. I drove most of it, so probably about 1000km.
No, I miss having him around. We’ll have to hoist a toast for him later, to his good health, where ever in the world he may be.
Jimmy LaFave and the Night Drive
He stole my socks.
… Also, look out, he’s right behind you*.
(/*This joke was composed in a moment of whimsy, and is in no way meant to minimize the fact that actually, what Laden did a while back did, in my ever so humble opinion, kinda suck donkey balls.)
Oh Lord, how to sum it up. Brownian, the last neverending thread had a few hundred posts about it. In short, Greg said some nasty things that were really damaging to a person’s reputation, then denied saying them while repeating them over and over, then said no one who posts on Pharyngula should ever care what is said about them anyway because we all suck and insult each other all the time, and then he modified a few comments that didn’t agree with him without noting that they had been changed, and then revealed a poster’s email address and true identity because he was mad at the poster. (He did change it back to the username an hour or so later, but still.)
Watching it all happen in real time was… something else.
89…
We’ve got to get moving here – there are too many new posts that are sucking up comments and attention! Back to the endless thread, everyone!
144…
Re #448/449: my apologies, but it didn’t even occur to me Brownian might actually be asking this question in innocence, so much as whimsically referencing the former instance… As in ‘What did Laden do now?’
… however in my defense, I would like to point out that this is a common problem in the land o’ nested snark, otherwise known as the internet. What can ya do…
Nonetheless, this momentary glitch in your steady diet of silly will be over with shortly. And when it is, I would like to continue with my efforts to spread a meme in which Laden is randomly blamed for improbable and/or absurd crimes and/or minor infractions and insults to my person…
…also, just now, when I was trying to pick up a $20 hooker, Laden outbid me.
(/Bastard offered $20 and ten cents.)
We need 600 posts to make the 28,000 mark. +1
I can’t help seeing a tiny, tiny bit of irony in this, with the flare-up last year between some of the RD forum moderators and those who posted in the front page comment threads… Seems that Dawkins doesn’t really get the internet drama and has gotten tired of it.
but I didn’t know the forum was so huge, there’s no excuse for shutting the community down so abruptly.
I have made only a few posts in the forum over the years, and I seem to have forgotten my password. Oh well.
Dust got sacked from her job on Monday (victum of having a ‘bad aditude’ whatever the fuck that is.)
So I’m listening to this right now and will be for about 4 more times. :)
Mr. Charles Darwin had the gall to ask
233…
I just realized that I won’t be up by the time Watchman was posted (10:28 PM). Time Zones, you know.
But in the mean time… +1.
Impressive. Would have been more beautiful without the drumming, though.
No, it wasn’t an actual Thai soup (in that case I’d have blamed even larger loads of pepper), though probably modeled on them to some extent.
Ha! That was several subthreads ago! :-)
Really? My, how time flies.
377…
I won’t be here when the clock officially ticks over. I’ll be somewhere on the Edens on my way to pick up the Redhead from the opera (Damnation of Faust). I’ll check in when I get back to the exburbs.
@ 459;
Let me know if it’s none of my damn business, David, but what percentage of your diet consists of soup? :)
Thanks, Carlie. That’s fucked-up. And I used to have such respect for Greg. Does anyone have links to the thread where this all went down?
I bring my own and pay corkage.
Right up until the age of about 15 or so I could not stand cilantro whatsoever. I remember the soapy taste interacting with my tongue in some unwholesome (and not in the me + five lesbians + bacon kind of unwholesome) way. However, either I cannot taste what I used to taste or my tastebuds have flipped around or something because I love the stuff like a cat loves catnip.
interesting. i had a similar reaction to avocado. first few times I tried it, it tasted like soap, and I decided I didn’t like avocado. now I love me some home-made guacamole.
Sorry, Dust. That’s really shitty.
Where I come from, and (relevant here) where my supervisor’s wife comes from*, the biggest meal of the day always starts with a soup. That’s also the case in part of southwestern France, but not in Paris. The cafeteria here only offers soup during winter (and soup that I can eat only 1/3 of that time)… so I just buy some to partially fill in the deficit, and because I basically wouldn’t get any vegetables otherwise.
* She cooks Russian, Thai (with 1/4 of the amount of spices in the recipe… still rather hot), and self-composed like that soup; he cooks mostly Cantonese.
Wow I hate this sign in – why can’t it let me show my own nickname?
Anyway, Happy Threadmass from a lurker out there
Stocking up on popcorn for the next wackjob (sorry, creationist) who ventures into the Pharyngula bearpit,
Tigana
Actually, I don’t think cilantro tastes soapy. Just hot and weird. But maybe that’s because it’s in a soup; haven’t had any otherwise.
:-(
I overlooked that the first time.
Do note how PZ has been posting a huge plain-vanilla-thread salvo in a desperate attempt to slow down the endless thread.
But now HaHaa
the thread-stuffing
Pharynguloids
are back in full swing.
I’m not gonna sweat the monitor and keyboard, but dammit, do you realize how bad it hurts to snort IPA out your nose?
cilantro? hot?
oh and btw, don’t think I missed the part where you were offering to bite me. I’m just still trying to figure out if it’s worth getting you pissed off more just to get bitten more. it’s a tough choice, you know ;-)
hot ? Cilantro ?
Sorry to hear it, Dust.
Bad Attitude
Thanks Brownian, OM.
Job hunting in the USA always sux but especially these days, and I’m older than Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM (that Crusty Cow [did I get that right?]) so job hunting should be fun!
Here is another of my faves!
I’m Choosing my confessions
You’d have to read this thread and then this thread while simultaneouls reading the contemporaneous Endless subThreads (starting, maybe, around here?) to learn everything that was going on. It was complicated, but Laden was a dick.
What the hell is wrong with NBC? The U.S. hockey team is playing as we speak, and they are running a feckin’ soap opera!
You can watch it live on the website, but you have to download some POS Microsoft player to do so. I refuse. Assholes.
/continues with rant in meatspace
The thread is going at full speed.
I hadn’t refreshed and now I see that Jadehawk came up with (almost exactly) the same comment doubting David’s purported hotness of cilantro just a few minutes before me !
Funny.
Alyssa Milano. Hot.
Best of luck, Dust!
(And happy birthday, Jadehawk (I was later than this in congratulating my septuagenarian aunt).)
NBC?
Happy Threadmass, all!
I’d better get to bed so I can get up late and not go to ‘work’.
Ha Ha! Thanks Windy, I needed that. And thanks David M, too.
Awwhhh, Threadmas…because of this blog I learned about the Watchman movie and went to see it an it became one of my faves. The movie inspired the reading of the graphic novel…and it was great.
And now, I have the time to do it all over again! :)
But first, the rain has stopped and the sun doth shine, time for a bike ride!
Brownian,
It (the part involving me and Pharyngula at least) began on Laden’s thread “Should just anyone be allowed to piss on Henry Gee’s rug?” (I think that was what Sven meant to link to first). It’s confusing because after I “just went away” from his blog I was commenting here on the Thread and some people were commenting in both places and such.
By the way, your comments on this thread have made me laugh, sympathetically of course.
Sorry to hear that, Dust.
You know what tastes soapy to me? Tilapia. I find it inedible.
See? Good can come from adversity! What is they say about comedians? To be one all you need is a sports jacket and a bad childhood. ;)
BLASPHEMER!
I don’t much care for the Asian varieties you can buy around here, but I lived on fried tilapia for half a year when I was in East Africa. Even now when I eat the things people make Sylvester the Cat jokes about me swallowing the fish whole and pulling out only the skeleton. By the way, never try to swallow a fish whole. I once spent a good afternoon at the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology trying to estimate rates of people dying from accidentally swallowing whole fish. I only found three or four cases over at least twice that many years, so stable rates were not forthcoming.
610…
You know what tastes soapy to me? Detergents. But like David, I like the soapy taste.
Not here. In fact, I don’t recall having any soup at all yesterday. To eat, that is; I did buy some interesting-looking organic Tibetaine soup, which, I notice, does contain cilantro. Hum…
hoo, I did bork those links. (I was proctoring an exam at the time and keeping an eye on stuff while pretending to do important Professorial Work on the computer.)
Actually I had forgotten about the original Henry Gee rug-pissing thread and meant to link to the atheist firing squad post and then to the “private letter” post at Laden’s. But of course SC’s right; it all started before that.
One could probably get the gist from the Thread alone; things got really heavy duty around here(?) iirc
Is there a User’s Guide to this thread?
How do you folks follow anything?
How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?
How do you find that recipe for chicken paprikas?
My Hungarian grandmother’s:
kill, gut and pluck chicken
cut into pieces
put pieces in pot of water
simmer for a while
add spices
serve
…and Laden loses it completely starting here
Is there a User’s Guide to this thread?
Open window; jump.
How do you folks follow anything?
Gravity.
How do you know if anyone has responded to your response?
There’s a fresh splat on the ground which is rapidly getting larger.
How do you find that recipe for chicken paprikas?
You hit a piece of bacon, bounce back into the air, and are caught by a passing chicken, who says, “Eat me. Here’s a nice recipe.”
Well, friends, this sucks:
I have been
askedordered by our friendly and competent IT people to leave my computer in my office, on, logged in, and connected to the network all night long tonight so they can get in and futz about with network security or some shit.I have to leave now to get to my daughter’s drum lesson and this means I will not have computer access until tomorrow morning, which further means I must miss the merry and jovial celebration that is sure to accompany tonight’s successful acquisitions of the 1-year and 28K
stumbling blocksmilestones of teh Thread.But since I do not feel like grading, I am quite likely to quaff a draft or 4 tonight anyway, and I will be tacitly toasting you, my fellow Threadizens, the whole time. Maybe I’ll have a bacon-&-egg sandwich for dinner too.
So, have fun, and I’ll be back in the AM to catch up and finish working up the 1-year update and analysis for the IJTS.
Merry Threadmas!
Happy Monkey!
More reminisces from the days of Brownian the Younger: for a multitude of reasons, most stemming from having a violently abusive father who was the opposite of a role model, I wasn’t so interested in typically male activities. I didn’t care for sports and could never be bothered to learn much about cars. Of course, you couldn’t just get away with saying “I don’t like hockey” if you were a boy in Edmonton in the 80s, so you’d fake it: pick some obvious star as your favourite and hope nobody questions you too deeply. So, my favourite hockey player was Wayne Gretzky (natch!) and my favourite car was a Lamborghini. Of course, true auto or sports aficianados have more nuanced favourites which come from having familiarity with the subject, but both of these answers sound reasonable and you don’t have to answer any weird questions about cams and cylinders and hat tricks*.
Now, I didn’t know sports or cars, but I knew girls. So when any guy had a pin-up of some big-breasted blonde ‘bombshell’ like Samantha Fox (or Pamela Anderson for you darn kids), I figured it was a good chance they were pulling the same stunt. I’ve conducted brief surveys, and encountered at least two gay men who’ve admitted to plastering their rooms as adolescents with Sam Fox posters just to avoid that uncomfortable talk with Dad or their friends.
The reason I bring this up is because this hypothesis came to me in a flash at some point in Grade 8 when I noticed one of my fellow students had posters of Alyssa Milano in his locker and I thought it was a very nuanced choice, as if Alyssa Milano were the Shelby Mustang of pin up poster girls for the 80s.
I have been asked ordered by our friendly and competent IT people to leave my computer in my office, on, logged in, and…
Logged in? They do not know what they are doing then.
Type something. If people like it, that’s good. If people don’t like it, that’s bad. But it may also be good (never just follow the crowd at chow time.
On this thread, or in real life? The answer to both, for me at least, is I don’t. But that’s okay.
Skim. Search for your name. The latter is confounded by people like me that don’t often refer to other posters by name, instead just blockquoting the salient parts of their comments. I’m trying to become more considerate about this, kiyaroru.
They’re pretty explicit about it:
[emphasis in original]
*shrug* Me, I hear and obey.
See you-all in the morning.
I don’t get to join in the drinking tonight, due to the need to pick up the Redhead after the opera. The only nice thing is that usually there is very little congestion on the freeways that time of night.
987…
(987/610 = 1.618032787…getting closer)
Threadmas without Svanta?!
*POUT*
Brownian, this was when I brought it home, so to speak:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/01/this_is_the_thread_that_youre.php#comment-2246475
Sven, the link you provided for Greg Laden losing it completely leads to Josh, Official SpokesGays profile.
Jadehawk @ 5, did you mean “п разу око?” Or “п разы око?”
JPS, recovering math geek — NOT!