Somehow, listening to John Waters reading the liner notes to an album he’s putting out sounds an awful lot like the never-ending thread. I think he’d feel right at home here, someone invite him over for a date.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
Ehm, BoSOM, who got closest and gets extra credits now???
Dang, tried to post on the other thread but PZ closed it.
Awesome – I got the last pre-PZ-closing post of the previous thread.
John Waters is indeed excellent, if for no other reason than he guest-voiced on one of my favourite Simpsons episodes, Homer’s Phobia.
Unfortunately, I woke up this morning (I prefer sleeping in), and having skimmed the zillion comments since dinner, totally agree with the suggestion for using spices—and that does not imply spicy hot (but like others, do like very spicy hot foods (surprising rare in this area of France ;-( (or I don’t know the (local) secret for finding the stuff ;-( )))—and am willing to concede that will the proper application of spices and lots of real food it might be possible to disguise a pea. But I doubt it, you cannot even hide the feckers under a mattress.
Our lord and master is awake and closing threads. He must still be on Irish time since it’s only a little after 7AM in Minnesota.
Nah, it’s one of the leprechauns he brought back with him. Or maybe one of the daemons snuck over from Poland. Professional Poopyhead Little Pee Zed probably doesn’t know he’s infected.
Leigh, Silent Moose of Doom:
I’ll tidy up some of my spicy veggie recipes, post a couple, and email some more to Leigh.
BTW, I’m surprised that none of the biologists here has remarked on the science of mushroom yumminess.
Mushrooms have free glutamic acid in them; they’re a natural flavor enhancer, doing basically what MSG does, which may be especially important for people who like meat but “don’t like veggies.”
So even if you don’t like the taste or texture of mushrooms themselves, you may like the way they make other things taste.
Glutamates give food a sort of subtle meat-like flavor called umami, which is hard to recognize consciously as a flavor. (It’s one of the 5 basic flavors your tongue can detect, along with sweet, salty, bitter, and sour.)
Soy sauce and fish sauce and various fermented bean sauces also have free glutamate in them, which is one reason why they’re used a lot in Asian cuisine. (I often use soy sauce for the saltiness, instead of adding salt, and get some umami flavoring in the bargain.)
A lot of Japanese food is based on either mushroom stock or kombu stock—the water that dried shiitake mushrooms or dried kombu seaweed were rehydrated in. You soak the mushrooms or kombu and use them in one dish, saving the water to use in another.
If you’re like me, and like meat but want to eat less of it, or if you are cooking for meat-eaters who don’t usually like veggies, you want to take that into account. A little umami may make the veggies more satisfying in a way that’s hard to put your finger on.
No, I’m miserably sick. Woke up at 4am to the unpleasant sensation of my brain melting and oozing down the back of my throat.
We need some music. Luka Bloom and Christy Moore:
Sorry to hear that, PZ. Hope you feel better soon.
Oh !!
Sounds like the bug my kid caught !
Regular fluids, Panadol, Nurofen, and maybe consider a Moritz style soaporizer !!
Get better soon !
Paul’s double-spiced Niter Kebbeh (Ethiopian spiced butter, but vegan) recipe
This is a variant of a recipe I got off recipezaar; there are several variants of it floating around.
Niter Kebbeh is common in lots of Ethiopian vegetable dishes. It’s a good thing to have around for yummifying non-Ethiopian veggies and starches, too. (For example, I sometimes toast a multigrain tortilla in the toaster oven until it’s crispy, spread a little NK on it, and it tastes like some cool exotic African or Indian flatbread thing. Nice for a snack, or with something else.)
I doubled the spices, because I usually use much less “butter” than is probably authentic for Ethiopian food. (Which often contains LOTS of butter.) You can also use it half-and-half with butter/margarine/oil to get the usual density of spices for other people’s recipes.
I usually double the quantities below and make a big batch that lasts for months at the rate i use it.
—
1 lb margarine, Earth Balance, or whatever (or if you want to be authentic and nonvegan, clarified butter)
1/2 cup onion, chopped pretty fine.
4 tsp grated fresh ginger root
4 cloves garlic, minced or pressed
2 cinnamon sticks
1 tsp turmeric
4 whole cloves
1/4 teaspoon nutmeg
1/2 teaspoon ground fenugreek
2 tablespoon fresh basil, or 2 teaspoon dried basil
Yield: 12-14 fl. oz.
Directions:
1. Chop onions, grate ginger, mince garlic if you don’t have a press.
2. Heat the margarine until it bubbles a little.
3. Add everything else.
4. Heat to bubbling again, then turn heat to low and cover pot.
5. Simmer for 45 minutes to an hour.
6. Strain into heat resistant container; let strainer drip a while.
Put the liquid in a jar, store in fridge for months.
Keep the solids—they’re good to spread thinly on toast, or to jazz up a sandwich. Pick out the big hunks (cinnamon, cloves) and use the rest as a tasty topping or condiment.
Probably daemons then.
Take three gods and call a real doctor.
p.s. Sounds awful! Please get better. Soon.
Paul’s Gomen (Ethiopian Greens)
(I usually double this recipe)
1 1-lb bag frozen collard greens, thawed
2 tbsp (1 oz) Paul’s double-spiced Niter Kebbeh (Ethiopian spiced butter)
1 1/2 cups chopped onion (most of a medium onion, diced)
5 cloves garlic, minced or pressed
1 roma tomato, chopped or 2/3 cup diced tomato
2 jalapenos, deseeded and minced
1 1/2 tsp grated fresh ginger
1/4 tsp ground cardamom
1/2 tsp ground black pepper, more or less, to taste
1/2 tsp salt, more or less to taste
1/2 tsp apple cider vinegar
1. Heat Niter Kebbeh over medium heat.
2. Saute onions a few minutes, until translucent.
3. Add garlic, and saute another minute or two.
4. Add tomatoes, jalapenos, ginger, and cardamom, and saute another couple of minutes.
5. Mix in collard greens.
6. Cook over low heat, covered, 15 minutes or so, stirring occasionally.
7. Mix in black pepper, salt, and vinegar; cover, cook over low
heat another 20 minutes or so, stirring occasionally.
—
Serve with tortillas heated in a dry skillet or toaster oven, so that the surface is a little toasty but they’re still flexible. Tear off hunks of tortilla, pinch a wad of gomen with it, and pop it in your mouth. If you want to be authentic, use injera (thin, spongy Ethiopian sourdough pancake-like flatbread) instead of tortillas. (A lot of people prefer tortillas, especially if the injera is authentically sour. I use Southwestern-style tortillas which my neighborhood grocery store makes fresh in the store.)
Urgh. He keeps droning on… I had to stop at 2:50.
I suppose it might be a “talk to the hand” phenomenon… :-/
I sense a contradiction :-)
:-D
What’s wise – my insight that meatspace in general and time in particular are social phenomena for me, so that, living alone, I basically have to consciously remind myself of their existence several times every day (and sometimes fail, naturally)? Maybe, but that doesn’t help me any. Being alone isn’t something I can simply switch off by using wisdom – and I already don’t want to be alone for other reasons; I didn’t need any wisdom to figure that out.
<deep breath>
<span lang=”cz”>Ach jo…</span>
Most or all good people, except maybe Type III antiheroes, are sweet and bubbly as long as they aren’t confronted with (as my sister likes to say) how bad the world is.
Awesome.
it’s hilariously, obliviously self-referential.
It is self-referential, but are you sure it’s oblivious? There are people who describe themselves as weird. And Quayle did joke about himself after the potatoe incident, as far as I’m informed.
Damn you David, I love Django !!! Just awesome…..
Argh. Multiple blockquote fails in just over 4 laptop screens. Something is wrong with me today other than complaining about the “science” of Star Trek.
Paul, thanks so much for the recipes. I’m looking forward to trying them.
But now, I need to try to sleep some. Last night was a big FAIL for shuteye.
Thanks again, Paul, for the food chemistry tip about mushrooms. I did not know that!
Jadehawk, SpriteSuzi and I left lime pie tips on the humungous fungus thread, #s 743 and 744.
I suspect that it would be good, but probably not as good, at least for some things where the butteriness is a plus. I use Earth Balance because it’s a margarine-like thing that tastes fairly buttery, but doesn’t have as much of the Bad For You kinds of fats as either butter or regular margarine. (As I understand it.)
Many recipes for NK call for unsalted butter or margarine. I just use regular, and it doesn’t generally end up making things too salty because I double-spice it and use less of it.
(I do often use 3 tablespoons of NK in the gomen recipe above, rather than 2, if I want it extra yummy and am not worried about it being low fat.)
BTW, for USAmericans, rapeseed oil = “Canola oil” minus the offense to delicate sensibilities about “rape” (Many USers don’t know there’s also a plant called “rape.”)
I just can’t keep up. I fear we’re approaching the Threadularity.
So I’d better get in this response to Bojangles quick.
Paul W #12, #14
Very excited about trying these recipes out.
Is there an Australian equivalent to ‘collard greens’, or is it just a name for something obvious and I’ve missed it?
(I’ll take as many recipes as you can spare. I’m at silent DOT moose DOT of DOT doom AT the Google email.)
Well, ignoring the fact I dislike supermarkets and abhor hypermarkets, I was really referring to sit-down restaurants (as distinct from, say, kebab shops). I agree I wasn’t clear and also was slightly out-of-context (on the endlessly wandering thread?). Sorry for any confusion.
Fresh chili’s can be hard to find (albeit I did find some organic habaneros recently), as can a wide selection of spicy sauces, but with perhaps those two exceptions, yes, I can and do find adequate ingredients. Not as wide a selection I was used to in California, or even in England, but findable without too much effort.
Offhand no, and I’m embarrassed to say this, but the name Albert Ménès isn’t ringing any bells. (That doesn’t mean much—I have a poor memory for names (and no, mine is not tattooed on me!).) I’ll keep an eye open—thanks for the tip!
GAH!
Get out of my head!
He led me to it.
I now I has a sad.
I like Bacon!
SMoD:
Good question. Wikipedia suggests that not everybody has collard greens, by any name.
The recipe should work pretty well with various kinds of greens. Authentic Ethiopian gomen is made with different kinds of greens, and usually not colllards. (IIRC, something called “bitter leaf” is common; I can find that in the local afro-caribbean store, but not in regular grocery stores.)
You might try using fresh spinach, or beet greens, or maybe kale, or pretty much whatever greens you like. I suspect any of those would be pretty good fixed that way.
BTW my recipe calls for frozen collards, not fresh. Fresh collards are pretty bitter, and I’m not sure how or how much to cook them to get most of the bitterness out. The frozen ones I use work fine.
Using less-bitter greens, you wouldn’t have that problem, and fresh greens of most sorts would probably be pretty good.
Yes, John Waters. I will love you until the end of time.
Collard greens are similar to kale. The plants are grown in Kashmir under the name of haak, so you might find it in an Indian grocery. You could substitute kale, chard, or even spinach.
I feel so honored, and Josh will be thrilled! I think we may have inspired the theme of this incarnation of teh Endless Thread™!!
*yawns and rubs sleep out of his eyes*
So who won the bet?
And PZ, get well soon! That bug sounds nasty….
Oh, and I just watched “Moon”, with Sam Rockwell. Good movie! If you haven’t already, it’s worth checking out…
Thanks, Paul W and ‘Tis Himself.
I’ll go hunting greens tomorrow.
blf #24
Try this (but not until July) or grow some.
I have grown chillies on the office window ledge.
Well that’s what I said they were anyway.
http://www.peppersbypost.biz/
Renew!
The traditional way to cook greens is to boil or simmer slowly with a piece of salt pork or ham hock for a long time (45 minutes to an hour) until they are very soft. This tempers their tough texture and smooths out their bitter flavor.
Speaking of French supermarkets… the company that makes liter packages of fully blended, creamy vegetable soups, such as the cress soup and potato-leek soup I buy, has now come out with broccoli soup. :-) :-) :-) There’s also cauliflower and spinach in it, which may not be a good idea, but I’d put some butter in it anyway… Have to buy some next time. I didn’t today, because I still have 3 packs of cress soup.
Depending on the greens, one can also boil for a shorter time (5-10 min) and then sautee (works for turnip greens), or even just sautee straight (kale). Keeps a little more of the texture and color, but also depends on how much bite you want in the taste.
Ha ha! That’s ‘cos you guys are waaaaaay more fun to read than that Hyperion shit-bitch.
‘Tis, do you know whether this reduces bitterness by breaking down the bitter-tasting compounds, or by diffusing them out into the water where they can be poured away?
I don’t really like boiling/simmering all the nutrients and other flavors out of my food, so I’m wondering if steaming would work to break down the molecules, without leaching most of the veggie goodness away too.
SteveV@35, thanks for the link!
My ability to grow things seems limited to watching them die in mysterious ways. I don’t have an antigreen thumb (since I haven’t annihilated when meeting people who obviously have green thumbs), but I do seem to radiate a field which kills all plants I’m trying to care for. When I do nothing, they grow in wild exuberance. Sadly, I fear planting a pot (or planting pot) is doomed to failure, albeit neglecting (a) pot planted by someone else will be an embarrassing success.
I’m wondering what the active ingredient here is. Is there a vegetarian option or an alternative method?
Great recipes, Paul! I’ll be passing them along.
The insight that our perception of time in general [and how (much) we think about the future in particular] is a social phenomenon. Perhaps I should have said “Very insightful.”
Uh…
Ah.
I also enjoyed his favouritest university press release (a couple/few below that one):
The parts about milk and the Boston Tea Party are classic.
Oh, no! Sorry! I take it back!
Hope you’re feeling better soon, PZ!
What! You dump the cooking liquid? Ain’t ya never heard o’ pot likker?
The font of all knowledge, wikipedia, has this to say about pot likker:
blf #43
Have you tried pressing your thumb against their’s? Do the experiment and let us know if you both annihilate. :)
SMoD, a little salt and a little bit of vegetable oil would work in place of the salt pork. (The salt pork is a very cheap piece of meat, and could be all a very poor family could afford.)
Looks blank. Sounds interesting, but I’ve no idea which company/brand you are referring to.
About the only package soups I get in the (rare) occasions I find myself in a French supermarket are is New Covent Garden Food Company which (seems to be) fairly easy to find. It’s been awhile since I’ve bought/had any, but their equivalents of the above soups are quite good. However, I’ve never seen anything but the small packages in France (or, for that matter, Ireland), only in England. Can’t now recall what the exact volume of either package is…
Having said that, I do make my own leek/onion/shallot, potato, and MUSHROOM soup (sometimes with bacon and/or some chili’s).
Indeed it looks as if I was so sad as to lose my innate universal grammar …
I have 2 kg of (organic) carrots, two aubergines and some bell peppers. What should/can I cook for dindins?
Sashimi? (Certain adjustments to the word cook may be necessary here.)
You didn’t say anything about using the ingredients you listed…
(Returns to his lair and throws out a few more peas.)
blf,
Can’t remember where in Ireland you are but former Somerfield shops in the – ssh! – North should have Co-op own brand soups, now that they are part the same chain. Currently in my fridge – carrot/coriander and tomato/basil.
Look out also for Yorkshire Provender brand – marginally more expensive but pretty good. I get those from the Co-op too but have seen them elsewhere.
The ham hock is purely for flavor. You can cook greens with out it. Though, if you aren’t a vegetarian I wouldn’t have a clue why you’d want to.
Thanks for the vodeo PZ, Jon Waters, he’s teh awesome. And what a way to ask for a date!
Feel better soon!
Nerd:
This is one of those places I’d probably try soy sauce rather than salt, to get umami and saltiness together.
Cured pork is has hydrolyzed proteins (and thus free glutamate), which is one reason it’s so dangerously yummy. Fermented soybeans are rather similar, though sadly not quite the same.
Sili,
If you have some tomato sauce and parmesan (or romano) cheese, you could make eggplant parmesan.
1-1/3 cup (150g) breadcrumbs
1 cup (80g) parmesan or romano cheese
1 eggplant (aubergine) cut into 1/4″ (.5 cm) slices
2 eggs beaten into 2 tbsp (60 ml) water
3 cups (700 ml tomato sauce)
2 tbsp (60 ml) olive oil*
1 tsp (5 gm) basil
1 tsp (5 gm) oregano
2 cloves garlic, minced
salt and pepper
1 cup (115g) shredded mozzarella cheese
Preheat oven to 350°F/175°C (Gas 4). Put the tomato sauce into a small sauce pan and add basil, oregano and garlic. Bring the sauce to a boil, reduce heat, cover and simmer for 20 minutes (longer won’t hurt). Add salt and pepper to taste.
Heat the oil in a frying pan. Combine breadcrumbs with half the parmesan cheese. Dip the eggplant slices in the egg mixture and then coat with breadcrumbs. Arrange eggplant slices in single layer on an oiled baking sheet. Bake 25 minutes or until eggplant is golden.
Evenly spread 1/3 of the tomato sauce in 13 x 9-inch (330mm x 230mm) baking dish. Layer 1/2 of the baked eggplant slices, then another 1/3 of the sauce and 1/2 of the remaining parmesan cheese; repeat. Cover with alumininininium foil and bake 45 minutes. Remove foil and sprinkle with mozzarella cheese. Bake uncovered an additional 10 minutes or until cheese is melted.
Serves 4.
*Extra-virgin olive oil is best. I use super-extra-virgin, raised in a convent olive oil.
Hungarian Mushroom Soup
Ingredients
* 4 tablespoons unsalted butter
* 2 cups chopped onions
* 1 pound fresh mushrooms, sliced
* 2 teaspoons dried dill weed
* 1 tablespoon paprika
* 1 tablespoon soy sauce
* 2 cups chicken broth
* 1 cup milk
* 3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
* 1 teaspoon salt
* ground black pepper to taste
* 2 teaspoons lemon juice
* 1/4 cup chopped fresh parsley
* 1/2 cup sour cream
Directions
1. Melt the butter in a large pot over medium heat. Saute the onions in the butter for 5 minutes. Add the mushrooms and saute for 5 more minutes. Stir in the dill, paprika, soy sauce and broth. Reduce heat to low, cover, and simmer for 15 minutes.
2. In a separate small bowl, whisk the milk and flour together. Pour this into the soup and stir well to blend. Cover and simmer for 15 more minutes, stirring occasionally.
3. Finally, stir in the salt, ground black pepper, lemon juice, parsley and sour cream. Mix together and allow to heat through over low heat, about 3 to 5 minutes. Do not boil. Serve immediately.
More about food chemistry…
In French cooking there’s a classic thing/technique called mirepoix, which makes a base for various soups and sauces.
You take diced onions, carrots, and celery (in about 2:1:1 proportions) and you slowly fry them in oil, hot enough to gas off the water and replace it with the oil, but not hot enough to brown the veggies. That takes about half an hour.
Then you cook something protein-rich with that, e.g., simmering a chicken carcass to make a chicken stock.
Turns out what’s going on is that cooking the veggies that way breaks down starches to release reactive sugars. When you combine that with the proteins and cook it some more, the reactive sugars break down some of the proteins, and free up glutamate.
So you get umami that way, rather than from seaweed or mushrooms, or by fermenting soybeans or fish or whatever.
Various cuisines have rough equivalents; in Italian cooking, you make a mirepoix-like thing involving bell peppers called soffrito, and in South America you have something similar called sofrito; in Cajun cooking you have the “holy trinity” of bell peppers, and onions.
So it turns out that in lots of cuisines, some traditional cooking methods are largely a way of breaking down proteins to free up glutamates and make things umami-yummy.
If you look at ingredients on packaged foods, and see “hydrolyzed vegetable protein,” that’s basically the same thing done industrially. They’ve broken down plant proteins to free up glutamate.
It’s not quite that simple, because there are a couple of other chemicals that matter, which make glutamate work better—less glutamate makes the same amount of umami due to some synergistic thing I don’t pretend to understand, when you have a little bit of those other chemicals, too.
That should have been
A Trinity with only two parts would be especially mysterious.
Paul W,
Thanks much for the epicurean instruction. This is the kind of stuff that makes cooking (and home brewing) fun.
Hey, it’s a casual Saturday morning in the wild west of the USA, and I enjoyed catching up with the previous chapter of the endless thread over breakfast.
‘Tis Himself, I didn’t know that you buffed your head (not needing a comb and all), but I’m very pleased to hear it. You are, no doubt, a good buffer, having had all that practice on boats. I would slap Josh Official SpokesGay around for making fun of you, but I’m afraid he would enjoy it.
See what we miss by going to bed at a reasonable hour — teh gayz take over the thread and flirt via John Waters quotes. I don’t get much of that here in the morridor, so I appreciate the entertainment.
The mormon gayz are talked into marrying women as a “cure” (or as a stopgap to assure one doesn’t live a gay lifestyle), and that is more tragic than entertaining, though some have tried hard to make it entertaining.
On the plus side, some mormons have gotten a clue and have formed an organization for gay marriage. Huzzahs for them. Then there are those that kill themselves — somebody needs to let the pressure off (do you hear me, church authorities?).
Oh, they hear.
They just don’t care.
David M. @17
I think you just wanted to break my blockquote fail record.
Thanks, ‘Tis!
Sounds like just the thing. A(a un)holy mix of mousaka and lasagne.
I do indeed have parmezan. No mozza, though – will Gouda (I think it is) do? Tomatosauce will be out of a box.
What exactly do you understand by breadcrumbs? I have have some ground/rasped dry bread, but do you mean crumbed fresh bread? (That would require me to bake first, or go shopping.)
I’ve adobted olive oil like most everyone else. I don’t think it’s even possible to buy anything but virgin. I’ve read, though, that it’s not good for frying because of the unsaturateds, so I wonder what I should get instead. (I just got some cold-pressed rapeseed, which seems to be the next fad, but apparently that have the same problem).
Now what to do with the carrots? I don’t think my remaining apples are good for anything but sauce after two solid months of frost, so not shredded carrot/apple salad.
I think I might hold the record for that.
I once block quoted an entire thread, which at the time was several hundred posts long.
re: the previous sT: Maniacs. The shortest (1.96 d, first to bust the 2-d barrier) and commentingest (384 comments/d!) subThread in Thread history.
catching up:
Ich, I have nurtured my closet Yes obsession for 35 years. Saw them many times BITD. Going for the One was the soundtrack to much of my senior year in high school (a nondescript suburban cluefarm of no prestige whatsoever). I have recently *koff* obtained a number of excellent bootlegs, btw.
Holy shit, Brad Mehldau and Sonny Sharrock in a row! One way to wake up.
The internetz have merely made this kind of knowledge-trap easier, bigger, more portable, more exhaustive, and more difficult to avoid. Is all. Same thing used to happen to me as a kid with the damn World Book Encyclopedia or a decent dictionary. (They made such things of paper then, can you believe that?)
[subThread turnover]
Thanks, Paul W. for the umami treatise[s]. Did not know that about mushrooms (though I knew about umami; glutamate is also an important CNS neurotransmitter, and the postsynaptic neurons of glutamatergic synapses use more-or-less the same receptor proteins (among others) as your tastebuds, which is pretty cool from an evolutionary-tinkering perspective.)
OK, but IMO they (mushrooms) still taste like shit, and that is a comparison, not a metaphor, if you know what I mean.
Harsh, dude. Ever read Lewis Thomas? OK, it’s a little poetic for sure, but it’s emphatically not ‘utter bullshit’. Think about it. All of our Earth languages are arbitrary symbolic systems and of zero meaning to Spock and LAWDKI alike. (There is some chance that we could use mutually-understood logic and reason to communicate once we had a common language, but Thomas is explicitly talking about the initial advertising-our-presence stage.) What can be broadcast? Video, and really any visual imagery depend too much on details of the sending and receiving protocols.
Mathematics is much more likely to be both easily transduced from broadcast and a common understanding from the get-go, and music (particularly Bach) is of course highly mathematical, in fact nearly reducible (esp. with reference to broadcast) to pure mathematical pattern. Did you watch that vid of the D-minor Toccata and Fugue that the Spokesgay posted last subThread? Do. Any civilization would find those mathematical patterns intriguing.
Now the mind-blowingly cool thing is that to we humans, the mathematical patterns of music can communicate emotions when transduced through the auditory system (which, as you know, orginated as a fish’s ability to sense water currents). Of course no alien will get that part, which I take as your point.
It was not Thomas’s.
It is of course true that I conflated the points by posting the quote in that context. But I did that on purpose because, like Thomas, and for the same reasons, I love Bach.
Oh, and also, you can fucking bite me. You have “never watched an episode.”
*ok…sorry…more coffee?*
And just for that:
*let’s see…uh…cooking, cooking…recipes…cooking…*
All good, but this part is too vague. What is this proteolytic effect of “reactive sugars” of which you speak?
26797
So I’m watching the second episode of Carl Sagan’s Cosmos (I got the box set for xmas). And I realized that I recognized the background music. Mozart’s K. 622 Clarinet Concerto 2ed Movement. Now my fiance is making fun of me for this realization.
>.<
A definite WTF moment. Glad you cleared it up.
The food threads are interesting. But greens *makes sign of crossed tentacles*. One of my few dislikes.
A short film about corporate logos in a hostage situation. Yes, Ronald is the madman.
Sili #64
Dry, rasped bread is exactly what I meant by bread crumbs.
The main problem with olive oil is it has a lower flash point than most other cooking oils. I use it when browning meat or cooking onions. It will not work for deep-fat frying, i.e. pommes frites (aka frites de la liberté). I use canola oil for that.
I’ve never used rapeseed oil so I can’t comment on its frying abilities.
Sili – Carrots are good coated with olive oil, roasted, and then mixed with quinoa and some onions, or cooked with a load of brown sugar and/or maple syrup. Other than that, they’re just filler. :p
If you’re going to parm the eggplant, be sure to slice it and drain it first to get the moisture out, or you’ll have a gooey mess when it hits the oil. Salt the slices a bit and press between a few layers of toweling with some weights (a baking pan usually works nicely) for an hour or so.
Beats me. I’m a chemistry doofus. I just read that somewhere—though except for that phrase, it’s similar to stuff I’ve read a couple of places.
“Reactive sugars” doesn’t sound right, does it?
A little head scratching and googling makes me think this is where I got it—some “food writer” called “Luc H” at cheftalk.com, quoting a newspaper article he wrote, in comment #14 in this thread:
http://www.cheftalk.com/forum/thread/49652/mirepoix
@68
Nerd, honey, let my daughter-in-law cook up what she called “ghetto greens” for you and she will change your mind.
So, any other chile-heads out there? I love hot peppers. Last year, we tried to grow some Peruvian Aji peppers–with mixed success, as nothing grew really well last year. Still, what we harvested was VERY good.
I also grew some Bolivian wild peppers and some others. I haven’t been quite brave/foolish to try Bhut Jaloka just yet. Habaneros are about as hot as I can stand.
My wife thinks I am absolutely nuts, but OTOH, she really loves the hot sauces I make and freeze in the fall. Ahhh. Late Winter: The time when the promise of spring beckons while the pain of weeding in the garden has faded.
I once asked a chef about salting and draining eggplant. He said it should be done if you’re frying eggplant but is not really necessary if you’re roasting eggplant, which is what’s done in the recipe I gave.
(I have zero interest in younger guys.)
[perk!]
It depends on the definition of young, but if we’re talking the 20-30? If you don’t want ’em, that means more for me!
Woo-hoo!
Seriously, I’m doing some weird reversal thing. In my early adult years, I was attracted to men 45+ (yeah, probably some daddy issues). Oldest age difference? 44. I know, I know.
What broke me of that was when I was about to go out with a guy in Dallas, and learned he was the dad of with a girl I’d known since 5th grade, although not well. That was bad enough, but worse, was her learning about the meeting and then pushing me to go out with him! “Dad really likes you! Let me give you his phone number! Won’t it be funny if you become my stepmom?”
That was the nail in the coffin of my attraction to older men. Stepmother to someone I’d gone to school with? Or what about some other man, with kids my age or older? Heck, the 64 year old guy had had a son my mom’s age! Somebody my mom’s age or older could become my stepchild? OMG–No! Oh hell no!
Now, I’m glad I got out of that rut. Now, the last thing I want to hear from a guy is about the ex-wife, the mortgage(s), the kids, the braces, the dog, what friends are gone now, omg, the heart, the prostate, cancer y;know, can’t hear, can’t see–
Been there, done that.
DO NOT WANT!
joking, right?
right?
The History Channel hates me. Why else would they be showing a marathon on Life After People when I have too much to do?
All these years using canola oil and I didn’t know it was rapeseed oil. I knew canola stood for “Canadian oil, low acid” but I didn’t know what it was made from.
No, Sven, I was not making a funny.
Tis – good to know. I’ve always drained eggplant regardless of how I cook it, but it’s a pain in the butt so if I can avoid it sometimes, all the better.
I skimmed right over that! equals
I had never heard it called rapeseed before I was heavily into botany, though. I was led to believe it’s a Canadian thing?
John Waters is the man, or a close approximation.
He wanted to know what life was like for a child molester once, so he went to see the Care Bears movie alone. All the mothers with their kids moved away from him and he had a large section of the theater all to himself.
ROTFL!
Oh, that holds for neurotypicals, too? I never noticed. Must be a lot less extreme.
BTW, is there any photographic evidence of your flower-child hair? :-)
We would notice. Trust me, we would notice.
Liebig Pur Soup’. Should have mentioned that. Two empty packs are lying next to me… :^)
Most supermarkets carry some soups of this brand, but most don’t have all sorts.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen it.
Of course, but that pattern doesn’t make any sense. It’s just beautiful – if you’re a human or close enough.
No. I’d appreciate a direct link, given how long and confusing that subthread was.
That’s what I’m not sure about.
:-)
There’s a lot that’s good about ST. I even watched the latest movie (XI) in the cinema and liked most of it. It’s just sooooo easy to make fun of… the pun was invented when I was, like, 8 years old, and I can’t get rid of it. =8-)
Raumschiff Entenscheiß
ST:TOS Plot Generator
Star Trek: mark two – it’ll take a while, but read through all the way to section 9. It’s actually interesting.
Ha! negentropyeater and I sure nailed that bet!
The snow plow is currently stuck at the end of my driveway. I have been isolated for 6 days here. The first glimpse of a human form is the plow driver with his snow shovel. The paycheck is at this end of the driveway, buddy.
Greens. How I wish it were spring. First the nettles come up, and then it’s hog heaven with the lamb’s quarter. Just as good as spinach and it is an abundant weed around here. I practically live on it. (I hear you can OD) Problem is, the farmers spray for it, and I am always finding my favorite patches dying from Roundup ™.
BS
By the way, did anyone else watch this?
http://www.pbs.org/thebotanyofdesire/
I thought it was very well done over all.
That sounds like one of those code names – “Jack’s plane crashed on its way from Mexico. He was flying in a shipment of ‘Bolivian wild peppers’ *wink*.”
Otrame, my mother and maternal grandparents are from Tennessee. Greens were served at the table, cooked as described above. Never found the taste/texture the least bit appealing. The Redhead does greens occasionally for herself, but has another veggie for me.
Canola oil is high in omega-three fatty acids.
“Reload the page” – technical difficulties, it can’t be shown. Refreshing several times didn’t help.
Carrots belong into soup.
:-D :-D :-D
—I have a poor memory for names (and no, mine is not tattooed on me!)
Someone has already mentioned that the tats were for corpse identification, right? While I’m spreading cheer: Frying beef in olive oil, like other suspicious habits—cleaning the house on Friday—could get you burned at the stake in the good old days in Spain. The book’s called A Drizzle of Honey; I forget the authors’ names but it’s findable. Interesting spice combos, pre-Columbus.
I’m snagging those Ethiopian recipes PDQ though the easy solution for the craving here is to pick an Ethiopian restaurant at random. BTW, for a real rush, try making Gomen with mustard greens. I think one of the Ethiopian groceries sells premade niter kebbeh but I’m not sure.
We can buy locally-made clarified butter in a jar and I hear it’s pretty good, but the guys who make it follow some woony procedures about moon phases and chanting at it or somesuch and it just makes me feel tired to think about.
If you’re a North American food-chem novice with a wonky streak, consider subscribing to Cook’s Illustrated. They use spice like the New Englanders they are but they explain how it works after they roast 29 turkeys in various configurations so you don’t have to. Plus they have a slot where people send in mysterious old kitchen gadgets and they ID them.
Ron Sullivan
http://toad.faultline.org
OH OH OH!
You wanna grow hot peppers? Get seed from Native SeedSEARCH in Tucson.
Naw, just send the picture in packets consisting of a number which is a perfect square. Let ET arrange the pixels in a square with sides = square root.
BS
Anther sailor song:
And playful men in their 60s are adorable. – SC,OM
Damnit! Five years too young! :-p
Unlike Nerd, I can do most of the greens, and I’m okay with a a lot of vegetables. But the ones I don’t like, I really don’t like.
There’s no way to make those to palatable to me–no matter how they’re made, I’ll taste what I hate about the item. Don’t try slipping it into a dish and think i won’t notice. I will.
Turnips. The greens are awesome, but the rest of the plant? No fucking way. They always smell like the old folks home to me–urine and sickness covered up with industrial strength cleaner.
Brussel sprouts
Lima Beans
Beets
Most olives; they’re usually way too salty, and I like salt.
Parsnips
Fresh tomatoes by themselves or in salad. But I like the sun-dried and cooked ones, and fresh is bearable in pico de gallo–go figure.
Sweet potatoes. I don’t like the way they feel in my mouth, and the taste is off somehow to me.
Radishes. Vile little things.
Water Chestnuts
Alfafa sprouts
Overcooked English peas or lentils.
I don’t mind cabbage. cauliflower and mushrooms, but I’ll usually pass them up at a salad bar or buffet.
It took moving to San Antonio to get me to stop hating avocados. Then again, most places don’t make it like La Fogata–theirs is almost avocado mousse.
Like potatoes, I’m allergic to capers, so I don’t eat those, either. Unlike potatoes, this sucks, because I like capers. I wish they liked me. :(
I’ve grown up in TX and I still haven’t developed a taste for guacamole. My Puerto Rican roommate made her mothers recipe for salsa once, and it had avocado in it. It’s the only thing I’ve ever had that avocado was bearable.
Hmm. I should get that recipe from her now that I think about it.
maureen.brian@52,
I’m not. I’m now in the south of France. I did used to live in Dublin for some years some years ago, and still rather wish I was living in Ireland, but I haven’t even visited for a few years now… ;-
I have my new MacBook up and running, but I’m having to get used to the different keyboard and the trackpad. If I’m making lots of mistakes, that’s what it’s about.
Best thing about this new laptop: I can do all my computer stuff in bed! This is good, because I did something when I was out yesterday that’s made my ankle sore enough that even sitting is uncomfortable.. I didn’t twist it, but it started bothering me. Weird.
#76 Aquaria
Let’s just check this:
Check. Haven’t got an ex-wife (I might before the end of this message but OK so far)!
Check. No mortgage.
Check. All grown up.
Rain Check. “Braces” can be many things. I wear trousers with a belt so perhaps I’m OK.
Check. No dog and I got rid of the pet green anaconda. One reason why there is no dog.
Check. No friends visit this basement room.
Check. No longer a regular church attender.
Ah. Promise I won’t talk about it unless it stops.
Check. I have no reason to believe that I am missing one of those but no problems to date so I won’t mention it ever again.
Check. No family history and no evidence to date.
Eh? Pardon?
Check. Not with me you haven’t!
And now you go and spoil it. I’m devastated! You were (one of my) last hopes (assuming Lady B wasn’t around).
Ah well …
Lynna OM? Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM?
Anyone???
nigelTheBold@60 thanks Paul W,
If this interests you, then run, don’t walk, run, to the bookshop and get a copy of On Food and Cooking by Harold McGee. He also has a blog, Curious Cook.
(I’ve got both editions of the book, albeit neither is at hand at the moment.)
Seconded. I’ve been a subscriber for almost 5 years now, and absolutely love it. I go through old issues looking for cool recipes. They seem to love turkeys, BBQ, and Thai food.
Another hidden gem for recipes – the Penzey’s spice print catalog. They also now have a publication specific to recipes, but the catalog itself has several good recipes per issue, and the catalog is free, and their spices are of course awesome.
As an older man living and working with college aged people, I have to admit that occasionally one runs into ladies who have ah, unfinished business with daddy. Unfortunately, most of the time the business should have been concluded long ago with a large caliber handgun on a back county road. Just saying.
BS
Canola oil is high in omega-three fatty acids. – ‘Tis Himself
The advert mentions DHA, but AFAIK, you get very little of this, or the other long-chain omega-three, EPA, in any source other than oily fish or the marine algae they get it from. The body can convert the short-chain into long-chain, but very inefficiently. There is evidence that the long-chain omega-threes have cardiovascular benefits, although a recent Cochrane meta-analysis, in contrast to earlier systematic reviews, gave mixed results.
Alan B, I stand by my offer to picnic with you on various hillsides in Britain while someone like Josh the Geologist/special forces dude scouts the area for suitable geological rock-hammering opportunities. Or, you could come here and I’d set you up in a tent at the mining site. You are welcome to circumnavigate the mountains of Idaho with me. Will that suffice, seeing as how Aquaria has struck you off her list?
Change of subject: slaves and blacks in Utah, a history lesson.
Pat Bagley is The Salt Lake Tribune’s editorial cartoonist, and the excerpts above are from his article, Living History: Slaves arrived in Utah with Brigham Young
#104 Lynna
Thanks for renewing the offer. When can you make it over?? (Leave geological-Josh behind. I don’t mind competition but not of that calibre!!)
Any offers from Janine, Mistress Of Foul Mouth Abuse, OM?
Anyone else?
Republicans exploit the muddle in the middle
Alan B, were you inspired by John Waters or something? I’m instructed to leave Josh behind, but you invite multiple women? I mean, really. :-)
Seriously, if I had the money, I’d be up for a geological tour of Great Britain! Man, that would be great. If I had a choice, I’d bring my daughter. She’s a great traveling companion, curious about geology, and she’s got her own wellies.
Until we had the ages discussion on the last subthread I only suspected that many of you were young, the discussion on food was the clue. Those of us who can remember the 1950’s and early 60’s in the UK clearly, will have eaten Cabbage, Brussels sprouts, Kale, purple sprouting broccoli and Brussels sprouts tops as regular (and only greens) during the winter. Root crops such as turnip, parsnip, swedes and carrots were the only alternative. Potatoes, by the end of February and in March were usually badly mouldy and plain rotten- we cut the bad bits out and boiled what was left. The first deliveries of new potatoes were manna; spring greens such as lettuce were welcomed as were radishes and spring onions. Until the arrival of early Pea crops, peas were of the tinned variety-Frozen peas came in in the mid 60’s as I recall
People forget that historically the worst months of the year were not winter but early spring when starvation was very possible as the winter crops had been used and the spring crops were not ready.
We were not poor by any means and times were not that hard but our diet was very boring at the end of winter.
If that sounds like a four Yorkshireman sketch sorry- there are only 2 good things to come from Yorkshire,- The A61 south* and Ray Illingworth ( who captained Leicester County Cricket club to its only County Championship)
*As claimed by the inhabitants of North Derbyshire
And we’re back to Django!
Or are there that many of them?
Aquaria-
Can I give a piece of friendly advice? Please please PLEASE don’t lay your laptop directly on the pillows/covers/blankets. Today’s fast processors have one downside- they run HELLA HOT! And they need space on the underside to dissipate the heat. Buy yourself a cheap stand that you can use that gives a few inches of breathing room on the underside. I know this from personal, painful experience. I lost a beloved Powerbook last year because I laid it flat on things like blankets and didn’t notice the heat buildup until it was too late. So now I’m extra extra careful….
So,PZ woke up feeling bad about the time I went to bed. and 5 hours later I woke up with the leg cramps from hell. Is someone sticking pins in a voodoo doll of a bearded man ?
Meanwhile:
Lynna, OM@ 106: The only death panels going on are at the insurance company headquarters, where they routinely decide to allow a patient to die rather than pay for a treatment.
*peeks into glibertarianism thread for the first time since a few hours after it was posted*
*sees the thread is still growing, and has 563 comments; no way of reading them*
*sees Knockgoats is handling the glibertarians just fine, using things like fourteen-screeners*
*pops out*
How stupid of me not to have thought of this myself!
That meme needs to be spread.
Rachel Maddow talks about violence on the Right: Republican leaders saying, “If I don’t see a change, I’m cleaning my guns…”
“If mommy doesn’t give me another cookie, I’m gonna hold my breath and stomp my little feet and cry real REAL hard!”
If someone is, they missed. Nannher nannher nanOUCH! ARRGGJJJ!!…
(The lair shakes but no peas come out.)
Yes, to comments up-thread about “Death Panels” holding sway in current Insurance Company headquarters — and there are some in the “Naturopathic Doctors” realm as well.
ZOMG! The silliness RickR and I indulged in may have inspired a thread? And here I was, thinking the Pharyngulite
WhoresHorde or the Overlord himself might be ready to call for my head. I’ll try not to push my luck. .Speaking of the libertarian thread, I owe Knockgoats thanks for being persistent and cogent; he really helped me see some things I hadn’t thought of, thought through, or even known about. Makes me wish we could get together in person someday and sit down with a glass of wine. :)
#110 David Marjanović
“Never take a knife to a knife fight!”
Knockgoats knocks the glibertarians on their collective asses.
Ah, Josh, Official SpokesGay, I see you are up and about. My feelings are hurt because you did not take the bait here [pouts]
Josh, OSG. The first rule of the Eternal Thread™ is to have fun. And I think PZ sees these threads as the Trophy Daughter’s Tuition Fund.
Lynna, my dear, it sounds like you rather enjoyed that . . . medical . . . procedure. I’m sorry for disappointing you; I just couldn’t take your challenge. My description would have been too naughty even for this crowd of dissipated libertines.
#107 Lynna
Touché.
Nerd, I thought the first rule of The Thread was that you don’t talk about The Thread.
Badgersdaughter, Lynna,
Thank you!
*Blushes*
BTW, Lynna, glibertarians couldn’t possibly have collective asses (or arses, as we Brits say). Each one has his/her own individual, privately-owned ass – unless said ass has been exchanged, in mutually beneficial trade with another glibertarian, for a spare liver or whatever.
Badgersdaughter, if we ever do meet up, we’ll split a bottle, if you drink medium-to-dry reds!
#125
And the second law was …?
Sven, ruling time.
Oh, my very favorite, yum. One of the rare good things about Texas is that it has passable wines, so maybe I’ll bring the bottle. :D
I also thought it was a rule that each thread must call PZ a Poopyhead once. Already covered by blf #6
Aquaria (#94)
Little? [Found the pic via Google, so no idea who that guy is.]
Yes, I knew that. The “collective” was meant as sarcasm. Next time I’ll flag my sarcasm. :-)
Hmmm, now that I read your reply again, I suspect a sarcastic riff of your very own, Knockgoats style. Arse-trading.
Glibertarians operate under the delusion that they do not have a collective ass upon which they may be knocked. Each glibertarian arsehole is unique, and no socialists may approach.
Nerd, PZ said earlier that he prefers “Professional Poopyhead.” Show some respect.
Ah. I understand. All is forgiven.
Would you like to meet Blake? I think he’s just about perfect, but he could use some pomade.
The First Rule of The Thread is that The Thread has multiple first rules. Contents of said first rules, and applicability, vary depending on Teh Troll dah Jour (served best with some bacon). Intelligibility optional.
Sorry to hear that, PZ, hope you get better soon.
I woke up this morning with a cold and I’ve been sneezing all day, which usually gets me in a bad mood. Gah. I think I’ve had enough of winter already. (And I like winter. Sometimes.)
#131 re radishes
Doesn’t really matter who the guy is, although I am deeply suspicious of the moustache!
What he is holding is a winter radish.
http://mollikaseed.com/radish.html
Without special treatment they can grow to 1-1.5 kg. If you were to take giant vegetable growing seriously, who knows how big they could grow.
http://www.reimerseeds.com/sakurajima-radishes.aspx
(Source: Wiki “radish”)
Try us.
David Marjanović @ 113:
I wish I could take credit for it, but I stole it from Keith Olbermann, who covered a story about a young boy who would die without an expensive cancer treatment that the company has covered before even though they considered it “experimental.”
Apparently a second round was too much for the company death panel. Mom and Dad are broke, and went broke paying for the son’s cancer treatment.
How do you tell a boy still in the single digit age bracket that he’s going to die because “We can’t afford it” ?
I’m not a big fan of TV opinion/news shows, but I like Olbermann some and Maddow mostly.
I might not always agree with them but they’re much more palatable than the stuff on Fox.
Part of this is that I have a real hard time guessing how long any activity will take in advance.
Even if I’ve already done it 100 times before and haven’t outright clocked myself.
Getting literally anywhere in time is difficult when I’m on my own. Except airports, because there I’m supposed to be there 2 h earlier anyway…
You know the list of bannable offenses.
Aaaaaah. =8-) I’m so glad Harrison Ford had diarrhoea that day – a long duel with sword and whip had been scripted.
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.
LOL!
He has the patience for it. I don’t.
Badgersdaughter, Lynna,
Thank you!
*Blushes*
BTW, Lynna, glibertarians couldn’t possibly have collective asses (or arses, as we Brits say). Each one has his/her own individual, privately-owned ass – unless said ass has been exchanged, in mutually beneficial trade with another glibertarian, for a spare liver or whatever.
Badgersdaughter, if we ever do meet up, we’ll split a bottle, if you drink medium-to-dry reds!
Josh, Official SpokesGay:
Who you callin’ dissipated, youngster?
Sorry about the double post.
Lynna,
Yes, sorry I didn’t pick up the sarcasm – “their collective Xs” is such a cliche I’m afraid I assumed you’d written it without thinking!
Badgersdaughter,
I didn’t know there were Texas wines! We get Californian reds over here, some of them very good, but nothing from anywhere else in the States.
What can I say? The simple headdesk has been somewhat overused.
Wow, step away to do some writing, and I find out I have an admirer. Goodness gracious, I’m blushing, and I’m getting too old for that.
I think, though, that Alan thinks I’m younger than I am. Sorry if I shattered any illusions. :)
Knock: Where have you been, dude, not to know about Texas wines?
I’ve had a few that were quite good (will look up the labels sometime). Most were average.
Since my husband works at one of the local supermarkets that has a fairly good wine selection, he brings home all kinds of wines that the steward raves about. That guy goes to a lot of the tastings, and he’s mentioned that the Texas wines are getting there.
There was a winery in my Tx hometown and another one outside my University. Unfortunately, my wine palate is nonexistent, so I can’t tell you if they are good, passable or bad.
Unfortunately, I can’t drink wine, as it gives me immediate and acute acid indigestion. :(
The most I can manage these days is the occasional beer. I’m pretty much a teetotaler otherwise.
Aquaria, you have many admirers.
Knock:
I’ve had a few Tx wines that were fairly good (will look up the labels sometime). Most were average.
Since my husband works at one of the local supermarkets that has a decent wine selection, he brings home all kinds of wines that the steward raves about. That guy goes to a lot of the tastings, and he’s mentioned that the Texas wines are getting there in quality.
I’m skeptical that Texas wine will ever have as many top quality wines as California. Our climate is probably a bit too hot for really good wine; last summer must have been murder on the crops. Even in the Hill Country (TX’s premiere wine-growing region), the lows lows would be 75-79 and the highs 95+ for months, although parts of it might have had cool enough early mornings. When I was there in August at about 6.30 a.m., it was 64 in the Medina Mountain pass south of Kerrville, and 68 in the valley below along Hwy 16. In San Antonio only 45-60 miles away, it barely got below 80 at night.
My ex-husband’s mother grew up in Napa and her father owned a vineyard there. She mentioned once that wine grapes, especially, need cool nights. I don’t remember if scorching hot highs were okay or not. I suspect not.
Shit–what is with this Macbook?
I may never get used to it.
P.S. Thanks Ray–I saw that.
Rawnaeris: In the College Station area?
I don’t have a palate for wine, either and I prefer it that way. I enjoy alcohol in all of its forms. If I started getting picky, I would also have to start spending money for better stuff.
I just bought some Frenchy Jadot Beaujolais-Villages, which is cheaper than the local Texas wines and better (as far as I can tell).
When Luka Bloom was fresh off the plane in the US, I was a pup hanging out at a bar in DC with my friends and my fake ID. It wasn’t really a music venue – more of a restaurant where local people/bands played while people ate and socialized (great place – long gone now). Anyway, Bloom played an open mic night, and the owner was so impressed he gave him his own dedicated night and also told my friend and me – who were probably their best customers at the time – about him. We in turn brought people to see him, so he would be encouraged by having a decent audience (IIRC it was a weeknight) and so they would have the opportunity to hear him. He was obviously going places, but I like to think I played a miniscule part in his success.
:)
[/Kw*k]
Is someone sticking pins in a voodoo doll of a bearded man?
Hm. Mr. Aquaria hasn’t been complaining about pain today, or much of anything else. Must not be the beard.
‘Tis Himself@140,
You’re far too modest! You handled the economic illiteracy and ignorance of economic history excellently.
Get out of my snowbanks you kids…
;)
I hardly ever remember the labels of wines. There are so many out there that I can’t keep them straight.
I typically get monster headaches from the sulfi-whatevers put in wine in America. Red wine especially, but I drink it anyway. The way around this in the past was to have my mother bring back wine from Europe, or she’d bring some back from her monthly trip to Monterrey. She doesn’t travel like that anymore, so no more sulfi-free wine for me anymore.
Snowbanks?
What are those?
[ducks]
:P
I’m getting so hold that I almost can’t remember what they are for real….
Some of the better wines are private stock from small Hill Country wineries that are rarely sold anywhere but at the winery itself. Sometimes I get one I really like when I drive up to sweet little Fredericksburg for a weekend to myself. I’m not as much of a wine drinker as all that, but I’m teachable.
[/Kw*k]
Kwok
You had me worried for a second there, SC!
Did I ever mention that I was at school with Mick Jagger’s younger brother, and that, as I was a few years younger than him, I never once spoke to him? Or that I used to go to a folk club at The Three Tuns, Beckenham, where David Bowie first performed in public; and that although this was at the time he was performing, I have absolutely no memory of ever seeing him, and like to think I had nothing whatever to do with his subsequent rise to fame?
Hang on, though, this is quite weird (I’m not kidding here). The link has a photo in it, and the guy at the back, second from the right, faint moustache, chin on fist, could very well be me! (I never really liked sitting in clubs listening to music – I only went in an almost always unsuccessful attempt to at least talk to some girls – hence I’d probably have been bored and pissed off, so the pose fits.) That could be my friend BC sitting next to me – I’ll have to email him the link!
I’ve noticed wineries popping up in various places in the US since the ’60s. They can make some decent wines if they stick to grapes that will thrive in the soil and climate. We usually stop and pick up some Michigan wines when we go around the lake to visit relatives. One of the wineries that made college rotgut in my university days now puts out a nice grade of wine. (As attested by the raves when the Redhead had some friends over, and served a SW Michigan white wine with some Blarney cheese.) When the Redhead visited her sister in Oregon, she had a few bottles of nice wine from there sent home, which were reds.
When I heard of Texas wines, I immediately thought hill country, and reds.
Did someone say Django?
Blues for Ike
And now for something completely different…
Heitor Villa-Lobos – Chôro no. 1 (perf. Turbilio Santos)
Wow. This thread has nearly reached #200 without a single post from me. Or even a mention of me. *sulks* (Yes, I am narcissistic and self-obsessed enough to search for my own handle.) :-)
As to the libertarianism thread, I’m too tired to get involved. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s impossible to have a sensible debate about “libertarianism” per se, since there are significant divergences between what different people define as “libertarian”. It’s much more useful to discuss specific issues rather than nebulous ideological labels, IMO.
Knockgoats – you look like George Harrison?
In other news, Tiger Woods looks to Buddhism to turn his life around.
Heh heh heh. That’s probably going to have more than one US Christian talking head frothing at the mouth. Suck it, Jesus!
It’s a true story!
Sniff, our ex-zealot is growing up.
Now and then, reading the news, I’m reminded we are in C21.
School used laptops to ‘spy on students’.
I’ve noticed wineries popping up in various places in the US since the ’60s. They can make some decent wines if they stick to grapes that will thrive in the soil and climate.
Some friends went to a “Pride of North Dakota” sort of thing where local businesses were hocking their wares. They said there were several local “wineries” there. Unfortunately, not a single one of their products was made with grapes.
I live in food/drink hell.
Well, like all good academicians, you need to find some way to use your profession to hide field trips for the appropriate food/drink. Do a survey in Michigan, New England, and California, for example, all on someone elses dime…
@Antiochus Epiphanes:
No, northern Hill Country. The winery was in Bluff Dale, north of Stephenville. I’ve never had any of it. I doubt it gets sold in even local groceries.
If any of you not from central Tx have heard of Bluff Dale I’ll be impressed.
The only wines I drink are made from things other than grapes. Honey wines are particularly tasty :)
MaJeff – how you doing!
Are you planning to be back in New England any time this year? If so, I’m trying to put together a Northeast Pharyngula Feast at my house near Burlington, VT. SC and Carlie may be tentatively in. If you’re interested, email me at spokesgay at gmail.
Oh, and I’m a great cook, veggie or meat (and sooo modest!)
@163 Mr T
Love it.
Djangology was the ‘first’ music I remember hearing – my dad played to us kids everything from his record collection which was eclectic but small, so we got to know the records very well. Some 78s like The Mills Bros and Inkspots and early Little Richard, assorted mod and Motown 45s.
I was just watching another treasured music memory (a teenaged one by then) on Youtube – the impromptu duet bt Larry Adler and Itzhak Perlman (on the BBC Parkinson show in 1980)
I can’t find a way to correctly link stuff (I’m thick, basically)but just enter the names there. Recommended.
@173: isn’t that mead?
Ah, I see PZ is Phlegmatic, for now.
Good news, element 112 is now copernicium.
The problem with most wine grown in areas where it gets cold is that varietal grape vines are grafted onto concord grape rootstocks. Concord grape vines have good cold resistance. However they give the wine a goût à welchs that I find very off-putting.
Note to Europeans, Australians and other furriners: Welch’s Grape Juice® is made from concord grapes and has a foxy taste I dislike.
Somebody from TX submitted a raisin wine to a competition. I have no idea how that would taste–and I don’t want to know. Anytime somebody makes wine out of something other than grapes I think of:
1) Boone’s Farm and TJ Swann
2) Tom on The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin and his turnip wine, although the thought of the nettle really made me want to puke.
From the link posted by WowbaggerOM @166:
Cheery bunch, what?
I saw your tiger Woods’ link and raise you one, complete with tears.
BS
Carlie@165,
Well, not now I don’t! For a start, most of the hair now grows out of the lower part of my face. But a lot of youths and young men looked like that then, so it may well not be me – it’s partly the chin-on-fist pose and the guy beside me that lower the odds. Anyhow, I might see if I can get a better image of the photo.
SC,
Sorry, I’d actually misread your #153 as saying the owner was “so impressed” by you and friend – I’m not sure how; then when I came to the “[/Kw*k]”, assumed the whole thing was a joke. Probably not helped by the fact that I’ve never heard of Luka Bloom!
*slinks off to bed in embarrassment*
MaJeff – how you doing!
On the tenure track, so sacrificing too much of my life for bureaucratic nonsense. (They might prepare grad students for the publish-or-perish world, almost, but the bullshit pushed by the people filling up the educational bureuacracy….they don’t prepare us for those idiots who continually justify their job by making the rest of us do meaningless reports).
Are you planning to be back in New England any time this year?
In about three weeks. Eastern Soc. Society mtgs are in Boston.
Is that what i hate about Welch’s? That’s some nasty stuff. Doesn’t Mad Dog have a Concord variety that will take paint off walls?
:) That’s what made it funny that you would think I was making it up – he’s no Bowie. Honestly, for whatever reason I haven’t really followed his career since then.
Hmm. I just tried to check his web site and it’s down. That’s kind of…worrying. (Great – ’cause I really need another person to worry about.)
Aquaria #184
You might appreciate BumWine.com. Here’s their review of MD 20/20:
Every time I think I discover a musician, particularly a folk singer, that nobody’s heard of, it seems like everyone’s heard of him or her. I came across Gordon Bok and mentioned him to a couple of friends of mine. They loaned me four of his CDs.
Bok’s “Old Fat Boat”:
Alan B, you crack me up sometimes. (I’m not going to say when.)
Thunderbird 5, #175:
I assume you mean their rendition of Summertime.
Here’s a recording of Djangology … It’s amazing what he could do, even with two of his LH fingers being burned and somewhat paralyzed. I’m truly awful at guitar in comparison.
If I’m to believe Radiohead, then Anyone Can Play Guitar.
(By the way, it may not look quite as nice, but it works to simply copy/paste links into a comment)
True story. Our daughters boyfriend lived on an estate here in Virginia. His parents are the care takers for the place, the owners being mega rich types. For Christmas, the owners gave out bags of wine to the hired help from their wine cellar.
In a clueless reflex action, the boyfriend’s parents gave four bottles of wine to our daughter to give to us (they drink bud).
It turned out these bottles of wine are VERY expensive. During the snowstorm we had here in the DC area I got pissed off on day three of no power and drank a bottle of Chateau Margaux Premier Grand Cru Classe 2001.
To stick it to the man, I drank it out of a plastic cup.
To be honest, I would have preferred peppermint schnapps.
I guess. They call it honey wine here, though.
The bottle I drank is availible online. For 500 bucks.
I think Welch’s grape juice is okay. But I’m not much of a grape drinker. I like OceanSpray cranberry and Treetop apple juice more.
Live dangerously, man.
sticking it to the man: you’re doing it wrong
Hey, guys! Movie recommendation time: I just saw Shutter Island and it was pretty damned good.
(And Ted Levine is a totally underrated actor.)
Heh heh…It tasted like red wine. Take that MAN!
I don’t drink anymore; I tended to wake up in jail. It took years of practice to be as libertine while sober as I had been while under the influence, but I have mastered it. Yes, even karaoke is possible. Sticking it to the Man is one of my favorite games, almost as much fun as having the Man stick it to me!
170:
Upstate NY has some pretty decent (and cheap!) wines to be had, so I’ve been pretty spoiled. However, a couple of years ago my sister visited Tennessee’s* oldest winery while she was down there to see friends. (Mind, the brochure didn’t say exactly how old this place was.) She brought me back a case of “table red”…
… And it was perhaps the most disgusting thing I have ever put in my mouth. Sweet and bitter and vinegary all at the same time. It was so bad that after I had two glasses, I barfed.
*Spelled that right on the first shot! Sometimes I amaze myself.
Wow, no one has said anything for over 30 min.
Did everyone hit the sack?
Not yet. Ran to the supermarket to buy bagels for b’fast tomorrow morning. (It’s sad that the only place to buy real bagels around here is in the market.)
Rawnaeris,
Naw, they probably have real lives. It is Saturday night after all. I, OTOH, have been working on the results section of a paper. All I really need is a set of tables, but I’m supposed to be writing about the results. Why the hell can’t I just say, “Results: see tables three through six.” Actually spelling it out in prose is just pointless.
@ Pygmy Loris, I agree. I hate having to be that redundant when my tables explain /exactly/ what’s going on.
Rawnaeris,
Aren’t we supposed to be concise, too? I hate reading results sections too. Tables and graphs are just so much easier to read. Unless your graph is complicated, why do I need two pages explaining everything that’s in the graph?
You are not writing for you, you’re writing for me (or, actually, some reader like me but who probably gives a shit about what you’re writing about). I am not nearly as close to your data as you are, I don’t know what they mean, and I’m not 100% convinced yet I care. You’d better tell me what to look for there in all your tables or I probably won’t look at all. It’s not my job to look at every fucking one of your pitiful numbers. Hold my hand. Show me the good parts. Or I’ll walk, and blow off your Discussion, and I’m not kidding.
No, I’m just sitting here thinking how everyone else probably has a life and are out whooping it up.
BS
Also, the Richard Feynman web page is pretty interesting. He would be 91 if he were alive. Gell-mann is still alive! He’s only 80.
BS
Pygmy Loris: What Sven said. I’m a text guy. Use the test to point to the salient results that form the basis of the discussion. Especially with that many tables, there must be some figures that are much more telling than others. Then, rock the discussion. That’s the best part.
Good luck with that.
Sven,
Then the results section should say: “For important results see table six and read the caption.” :)
Seriously, I didn’t put in a bunch of stuff. I have four small tables and they’re pretty interesting on their own. The really interesting stuff is in the introduction and the methods.
Antiochus Epiphanes,
As far as concise goes, I got an A on a 2 page to short english paper because I was just that friggin’ concise from all the P-Chem papers I’d just finished writing.
But back to the results thing. My professor always had us combine results and discussion for P-Chem, which made writing that section more bearable. For me that made everything easier to explain. I got stuck with a bad research advisor my senior year, so I never actually got to write a publication.
Damn, blockquote fail in #211. Only “I’m a text guy.” should be in the quote. The next paragraph is me.
Sven,
How do I make the results section grab someone’s attention?* It’s basically “I did this, this and this. Results were this, this and this. This result and this result were significant at x level of probability. The principal coordinates look like this. etc. etc.”
*I’m not getting any good advice from my advisor and friends. It’s mostly, “just write the results.” Not helpful. >:(
Wow, two and a half hours between posts and they’re both me.
Topic, topic, topic…hmm…
Anyone here follow Itsjustsomerandomguy on youtube? I love the Marvel/DC parodies.
One with Deadpool.
BS @ 208: [Feynman] would be 91 if he were alive. Gell-mann is still alive! He’s only 80.
Clearly there are fates worse than death.
For once, we got all social on a Saturday night: walked over to the Freight & Salvage’s new digs for a Martin Hayes & Dennis Cahill concert. Listening was more aerobic than the walk.
I keep hearing that the new Freight doesn’t have the soul of the old one. Having survived at least two former Freight venues, we’re both old enough that we’re OK with trading “soul” for better acoustics (the last one’s weren’t too bad), sightlines, and seats that didn’t paralyze our asses after half an hour.
blf, I also have what I call a black thumb. I once killed mint plants by meticulously following the ‘care and feeding’ instructions; one day, near the end, I was listening to the radio telling me about how mint was intrusive, and would have to be ruthlessly cropped back, as I stared at the few remaining pitiful, leafless stalks.
Sometimes, when I’m feeling a bit sadistic, I’ll loiter around the garden section at Walmart, pretending that I’m going to buy one of the plants. My husband claims that they all quail in fear, and start dropping leaves.
***
Surely, the Second Law of the Thread is that we cannot harm the Thread, or by inaction, allow the Thread to come to harm?
Random late night covers.
Heartbreak Hotel-John Cale, Shawn Colvin and Richard Thompson
I Wanna Be Your Dog-Sonic Youth
I am sorry about the obnoxious ad you will get first.
Teddy Bear-The Residents
Hold On, Hold On-Marianne Faithfull
Soul Love-Marti Jones
I Can’t Make It Alone-Maria McKee
As an older man living and working with college aged people, I have to admit that occasionally one runs into ladies who have ah, unfinished business with daddy. Unfortunately, most of the time the business should have been concluded long ago with a large caliber handgun on a back county road.
Funny you mention that–I got over my daddy issues after I told mine that two short visits in 19 long years, no phone calls, no letters, not even a crummy birthday card didn’t make a man a father, and if he thought he could be daddy to me now, I had a shotgun that had ammo with his name on it.
The fucker couldn’t run away (again) fast enough. Again. Imagine that. I mean, honestly, you wait until your daughter is 22 years old to take responsibility for her, and you think she’s going to be so grateful to have your sorry ass around again that she’ll welcome you with open arms.
If he’d been around me more, he would have known that was never gonna happen. I can hold a grudge with the best of them. I will wait years to get even, if you piss me off enough. YEARS. I’m not proud of it, but that’s how I am.
Of course, once that little coward realized I was serious, that was the last I heard of him. No loss. He died sometime in the late 90s. When my mother told me, I said two things: 1) “Good, one less son-of-a-bitch in the world.” and 2) “Tell me it was a miserable death, like he deserved.”
It was.
And my black little heart did a happy dance.
Oh Well-Fleetwood Mac
Mas Y Mas-Los Lobos
Calvery Cross-Richard Thompson
Oh yes , ‘Oh well’
I use it as a ringtone sometimes
*blushes*
Tis Himself @ 186
I’m disappointed that BumWine.com did not review my old favorite chemical Wine, Tiger Rose. A full quart of 20% alchohol mixed with doG knows what, and the coolest labels ever.The stuff was under $2.00 a bottle and was a good start before hitting the keg parties and laughing at the frat boyz.
I guess their winery mixing plant went out of business. Used to buy it at the State Store in PA.
This guy used their label for an album cover
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5101R1W3X4L._SS500_.jpg
oh, and they had a delightful white wine with a sort of diesel fruity afterflavor for the ladies. Same 1 quart price, it was called White Tiger, for a more delicate vomitting experience.
Sexxy!!
Damn. I had a reasonably happy, intellectually stimulating, emotionally satisfying relationship with my father. My only regret when he died was I couldn’t tell him I loved him one last time.
I cry for you, Aquaria.
Aquaria #220
Miss M’s father a was shit of the first water. Rascist, violent, spouse rapist, gambler etc etc.
Miss M’s mother , however was the the most remarkable person I have ever met. Almost totally uneducated, she worked in menial jobs for well over sixty years and ‘put up’ with the shit at home for her childrens sake. When (before we met) Miss M was severly injured in an accident 3000miles away, she, whithout the least help from the waste of space, took 2 more jobs, saved the air fare, got her passport and got herself to her daughters side. Actions for which I will be grateful for the rest of my existance.
The shit had left instuctions about his funeral (he had had several heart attacks) He hated the thought of cremation, wanted flowers and hymns etc. When he did die, however, Miss M’s mother had him burned as cheaply and quickly as she could arrange and spent the surplus on a long coveted fur coat. She lived another 20 years and said they were the happiest of her life.
‘And my black little heart did a happy dance’
Aquaria,
That’s really tough for you – you had such a raw deal. Those of us who have or had only parents who loved us and whom we could love, should never forget that many do not.
Aquaria,
Damn, what a piece of crap. There’s nothing wrong with holding a grudge. I’ve got one against a family member. If I ever see her again, I’m going to raise all sorts of hell, and when she dies my black little heart will do a happy dance*. Some people deserve it (the happy dance, not death).
SteveV,
Sounds like another piece of crap. I’m glad Miss M’s mother got herself the coat she wanted. It sounds like she really deserved something nice for herself.
*I am not the only one.
My parents and I have our differences, but they are wonderful people. One of the best ways to guarantee I’ll carry a grudge against you all the way to my grave is to treat my parents poorly.
Thanks Pygmy Loris
I too had my differences with my parents but they were wonderful people, a fact I failed to fully appreciate until I saw the contrast with Miss M’s father.
On a lighter note:
‘FINALLY, pharmaceuticals company Bayer Schering Pharma is to make a series of online films to “tackle the sensitive subject of erectile dysfunction”, Ronnie Somerville notes.
And what better-named company could it choose to produce them than the award-winning Aardman Animations?’
New Scientist 20 Febuary 2010
Yeah, Bristol Rules!
BAAH, BAAH, BAAAAAH
Another spicy veg recipe…
—
Paul’s Korean Barbecued Tofu (Tubu Kui)
Modified from a recipe in Flavors of Korea
I make an almost 2-lb batch of this every week or so, and use it in other recipes (in stir fries, in place of paneer in saag paneer, etc.) as well as using it like sandwich meat or just by itself, maybe with some sauce or dip.
It’s not meat, but it tastes good.
This recipe uses gochujang, which is great stuff that I use in various other recipes. I use Wang brand, made in Korea, from my local grocery store. (You may have to find an asian grocery.) It’s labeled “Hot Pepper Paste, Fermented” and doesn’t say gochujang on the label. (It’s “Pate de Piment Rouge, Fermentee” in French, which amounts to the same thing.) Warning: it has MSG in it, in case you’re worried about such things. I’m not, much.
—
Marinade:
1/2 cup soy sauce (I use low-salt soy sauce)
1/4 cup rice vinegar or cider vinegar
2 tablespoons gochujang (Korean “Hot Pepper Paste, Fermented”)
1 tablespoon sesame oil (any kind, e.g. light, dark, or chili)
2 teaspoons sugar
3 cloves garlic, minced or pressed
(optional) 1/2 teaspoon liquid smoke
2 14- or 16-oz packages of firm tofu, sliced about 3/8″ thick. (The 14 oz blocks I buy cut neatly into 8 slices by cutting them in half, cutting the halves in half, and cutting the quarters in half.)
1. Mix the marinade ingredients in a small saucepan. Bring to a boil briefly, stirring to dissolve the gochujang and sugar. Remove from the heat and let cool.
2. Place the tofu slices in a large, plastic sealable bag. (I use a 1-quart double-zip freezer bag; 2 14-oz packages worth of tofu fit just right, in two layers.) Pour the marinade over the tofu, coating all the slices. Place in the refrigerator and marinate for 8 hours or overnight. Drain; discard the marinade or keep it around to make a sauce.
3. Preheat oven to 350 F. Place tofu slices on parchment paper-covered baking sheet. Bake for 15 minutes on one side, then flip slices and bake another 10-15 minutes on the other. Check to see if they’re done—they should be distinctly darker than when you put them in, on both sides, and mostly dryish on the surface, developing a slightly tougher skin. If they’re not done, give them another 5 to 10 minutes. (Note that they cook about as fast on the bottom as the top, sometimes faster, so check the side that’s down, too. If they start to bloat up because the “skin” is trapping steam, they’re done.)
Variations: Tofu slices can also be pan fried grilled. Before frying or grilling, lightly brush the slices with oil.
Errr – rasins are grapes, aren’t they? At least it wasn’t raisin dates.
Anyway, making wine from raisins isn’t at all uncommon.
How do the results relate to the hypothesis/es you are testing? Were they expected or unexpected?
A couple of comments on the recipe above.
If you’re looking for gochujang, look for a dark red paste with these three characters displayed prominently on the label, maybe preceded by one or two others: 고추장
Also, despite being called fermented chili paste, gochujang isn’t actually that hot.
The marinated tofu from the recipe is not particularly hot—just tasty. If you want it hot, you have to put hot sauce on it.
Geez, I miss the Endless Thread for 24 hours for family duties and come back to tons of recipes I am going to just HAVE to try (now, just have to figure out if I should highlight and print recipes only or the entire endless thread…) and a sick PZ. Makes me glad I wasn’t anywhere near PZ in the last 3 weeks. I had the same thing, and I am still trying to expectorate my lungs on a regular basis (all other disgusting sypmtoms, over 3 weeks, have finally cleared up)
My sympathies, PZ. Get better soon. Lots of hot fluids and rest DO help.
Hmm… I have gochujang. I have fresh garlic. I have some excellent winter daikon (they grow it around here), winter cabbage, and I just bought green onions. What’s that spell… kimchee! Hooray!
For some reason I can only eat the stuff in a fresh or semi-fresh state. The point at which I give up on it is usually the point at which one of my friends asks, hopefully, “Do you have any leftover kimchee?” And then he takes it home and forgets about it for another week, by which time he pronounces it perfect.
Paul W.,
I was wondering what 고추장 was called. The grocery store here has it labeled (translated) “Korean, Hot, Red”. I picked some up because it looked right, when it smelled right I cooked with it.
Right. Which recipe is the lethal one?
#220 Aquaria:
Am I glad you ditched me!
While I have some sympathy for those who think wine can only come grapes, it is only some!
I have had some totally aweful wine from grapes (as well as some good wine).
Equally, I have made some superb wine from elderberries and from elderflowers (separately). Also, I have tasted some dreadful homemade wines that made me look around for the aspidistra! Or to work out if I could sneak the glass into the kitchen or a loo, or outside – anything, anywhere to get rid of it without having to imbibe any more. Trouble is, if you do it too quickly they think you like their prize creation and offer you another glassful and a couple of bottles to take home. Mind you, it can work quite well as a paint stripper.
Jesus. I’ve been away for a week, and already three incarnations have passed me by. Or upwards of 2,000 comments.
You people can hustle!
Oh, PZ, get well soon! You’re having a rough time of it; try to slow the frantic travel schedule.
Alan B,
You need a still. If there’s alcohol in it, surely it can be recovered.
I’ve heard of elderflower wine. Perhaps I should try it this year. I usually ‘settle’ for cordial.
There’s a wikipedia article on gochujang
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gochujang
(The article has a picture that looks just like one of the gochujang jars I have here. I have another that’s the same brand, same size and shape jar, but has a red label and different characters preceding the 고추장. Tastes the same to me.)
I’m not sure how well
this goes with scones and clotted cream, but I like it.
I want to paste a link for Ian Dury’s ‘Poo Poo in the Prawn’ for PZ on his sickbed. Seems appropriate on so many levels, but I can’t find it – anyone help?
#243 Sili
In the UK it is legal to produce wine and beer without limit but you sell any of it or if you distil a drop then the full weight of the law will descend on you.
You need a licence (which will cost you an arm and a leg) and you will have to pay enough to make sure you make little or no profit. You will also have Inspectors descend on you and you will have to fill in so many forms that you will wish you never thought of the idea (which, of course, is the objective).
Speaking of UK law, I was just reading the article linked to here:
http://metamagician3000.blogspot.com/2010/02/ac-grayling-on-new-puritanism.html
Janine @218: Thanks for the “Heartbreak Hotel” cover. I enjoyed that enough to play it twice.
It’s a little odd, though, to catch up on the thread in the revealing light of sunrise — all that darkness that went on at 3 AM is out of place. Heartbreak Hotel is a great late night/darkness-before-dawn song.
mmm, this kind of explicit interpretation of the data properly belongs in the Discussion, not Results. However, they’re good things to know when writing the Results, because you’ll want to draw the reader’s attention to the data and relationships you’ll be emphasizing later.
You don’t need to make it literary or stylish; just point to the good stuff. It’s hard to get specific without knowing the data and the questions being asked. If you compare groups or variables, you have statistical results to report. If not, are there trends or patterns that you can identify verbally?
For example (just making shit up):
I haven’t repeated any data that appear in the Tables, and I haven’t done any interpretation; these are just the facts. But I have set eveything up for my Discussion by pointing out the important features and relationships of the data, and I have savced the reader the trouble of even looking at the Tables if she doesn’t feel like it right now.
Even if I had just one variable, measured over time, it is preferable to say “The comment count increased with time at a variable rate (Fig. 1)” over just “FIgure 1 presents the comment-count data.”
hth
Speaking of wine: Idaho is prime wine country. Some Vineyards are located 3,000 feet above sea level in elevation—higher than any others in the Northwest. Volcanic ash in the soil, combined with warm days in the growing season and cool desert evenings, produces high quality wine grapes. Or so the vineyards advertise.
#243 Sili
Well made elderflower wine has a similar flavour to Gewürztraminer (without the ulaut in French, according to Wiki …). Gewürztraminer has similar flavouring chemicals as lychees and “floral notes”.
Badly made elderflower wine smells and probably tastes of cat’s pee. (Since I have never drunk cat’s pee I cannot confirm this from experience.)
From experience not all elderflower bushes give good wine (as is true also for elderberries) but since the flavouring is free it’s worth experimenting. Indeed, I have found from experience that 5 gallons of wine last at least twice as long as 1 gallon.
You are aimimg for a light, dry wine. I can’t remember the recipe I used but:
the flavour was elderflowers, as small an amount of stems as possible. If picked exactly right the petals can be stripped off with a fork or finger tips. Check with a recipe for quantity.
the body was sultanas (raisins are a bit heavy for a light wine). Again, check quantity.
enough sugar to produce a bone dry wine at the end, about 2.5 lb to an English gallon. Remember you’ll get a bit more from the sultanas.
juice of a couple of lemons (or citric acid to provide the acidity)
Ferment right out to below SG = 1.
Bottle.
Drink in quantity, chilled, young and fresh. Restrict driving.
Despite fermenting right out, you sometimes get a little extra fermentation in the bottle (a definite improvment – Brut sparkling wine).
Best of luck. If you try it let us know how it works out.
Idaho wines reminds me:
Aquaria’s little black heart doing a happy dance was refreshing. My father and mother were good parents … mostly. My mother became a bad parent as Alzheimer’s Disease accentuated her bad qualities and eliminated her good ones. I couldn’t help smiling when she died. I smiled both for her sake and for mine.
My father taught me to love the still wild parts of the western USA, and how to survive there — and he did that by example. I didn’t even realize I knew that stuff until I looked around and noticed that other people had a hard time being alone in the great unsigned back country. Well, that’s odd, I thought.
A friend of mine, who had parents more like Aquaria’s father, said that people expected her to be sad when they died, but those people forgot that everyone, even your closest relatives, earn your respect by what they do, by how they live, not by virtue of giving birth to you.
Can someone please make me a few gallons of Puligny Montrachet? I have only had it once and can’t afford it again.
Without having read the site too closely, a lot of that material seems to be from Surely You’re Joking, Mr Feynman, which is a great book to read when you’re
stuffedstrapped into an airplanebucketseat.Nerd @252: LOL. Steve Martin removing the bottle cap was a nice touch. And, of course, it should be a fine Idaho wine “for 95 cents.”
Steve martin looks good in lederhosen. :-)
#247
#247 SC OM
I like that quote – there is much discussion on British blogs on what freedom and state control mean. Let me quote the link direct and I’ll ask some Qs at the end:
Question:
Do you still agree if the freedom being talked about involved:
Excessive consumption of alcohol
Use of street drugs or over-use of prescription drugs
Smoking tobacco
Sponging off the State
Possessing hand guns
Is there anything at all where the State should not be involved?
Briefly justify your answers.
Note to PZ.
I don’t want to start a flame war. I you think it would descend into one then please delete.
I am genuinely interested in seeing what people here think and how it compares with libertarian views in the UK.
After reading Bradbury’s Dandelion Wine as a kid, I endeavored to make some (as I recall, a recipe was included in the book). At the public library, I found a delightful little book perfectly titled An Essay on Brewing, Vintage and Distillation, Together With Selected Remedies for Hangover Melancholia: Or, How to Make Booze, by John Festus Adams, a complete witty and knowledgable joy from front to back. I still haven’t actually made anything in there (except maybe one of the hangover remedies), but I have now read the book several times. It’s apparently way out of print.
Recommended, if you ever see a used copy.
Quiz Question:
Where was sparkling Champagne “invented”?
France – a priest in the Champagne area
France – but not in the area of Champagne
Germany
Austria
England
USA
A short explanation, perhaps?
(Anyone can use Wiki so try it without …)
Sven @ 258
PIHKAL and TIHKAL
best cook books EVAR
“Involved” is far too broad. You’ll have to be a lot more specific.
Do you mean “should be”? And again, “involved” is just extremely general. The example he offers of NZ is one in which the government is “involved,” but in a different way AFAICT.
Briefly explain your questions. :)
C’mon. Teh CO would never do anything like that. Even the greasiest, slimiest Nazi fuckhead ban-without-further-notice comments are not deleted.
Disemvoweled, maybe.
If you don’t want to start a flame war, don’t post controversial shit; once it’s up, it’s up.
Where was sparkling Champagne “invented”?
Yes
A short explanation, perhaps?
succinct
#257
I got tied up in drafting with some double negatives. The last line in the question should read:
You know what I mean (I hope).
Obviously, I am an Englishman. When I talk about “the State” I am not referring to US issues of Federal vs State rights & jurisdictions. Unless you really think that is essential to make your point.
tee hee
You’re hard core, man.
No, I have no idea.
The state.
Sven go to
http://acksisofevil.org/contact.html
and drop me a line on my e-mail, I have a hard drive full of sound boards. 69-78
Allah willing, but I’m afraid the state is with us for a long time.
Oh, the beauty of original sources! Joseph Smith admitted he was a fraud. The info from original sources (below) was gathered up by ex-mormon, Deconstructor:
Oh good grief. The banner ad on the latest Ken “Piglet Rapist” Ham post is for some scam called http://www.christianchatcity.com/ to “chat with people who care”. This banner ad claims to be from Generalissimo Google™.
It is abundantly clear from SC OM and Sven DiMilo that I have dropped a cod here.
I APOLOGIZE.
Please ignore posts #257 and #264.
(Be kind and remember everyone makes a fool of themselves for 5 minutes in a day – it’s the wise man who can keep it to 5 minutes! Unfortunately, I think I’ve had most of this week’s ration.)
Alan B @272: Lovely apology. One of the best I’ve seen. [amusement factor is high, considering the mildness of the offense] Using up a week’s ration of foolishness in one day happens to be a skill I also possess, but my results tend to be more spectacular.
Gee, Alan, I didn’t know you’d offered to be dumped. ;) You didn’t even give me the chance to make an exception to my younger men only rule!
As for my dad–forget about it. I was just venting. I don’t want to scare anyone further by listing the things he did that were even worse than I listed. (Mutters to herself about sorry sons-a-bitches…)
To the weird wine crowd:
I know that raisins are grapes, btw, but it’s just weird to make wine out of them. Or maybe it’s that I’m no big fan of raisins.
Anyone who offers to make me homemade wine is gonna have to overcome my aversion to it. Homemade wine was very popular in East Texas, with its widespread ban of liquor sales, so I’ve had my share. They all sucked. Badly. If you can make it well, great. Convince me, though.
Same thing with fruit wines. A lot of people make them, but I’ve yet to have a good one. Again, if you make it well, convince me.
Do you still agree if the freedom being talked about involved:
Excessive consumption of alcohol
Use of street drugs or over-use of prescription drugs
Smoking tobacco
If you want to poison your own body, cool, as long as it’s not harming another person.
Sponging off the State
Loaded language much? I suppose you’re going to be a rugged individualist when you’re an old fuck and reject Social Security, so that you don’t sponge off the state that way? No, paying in doesn’t matter. You don’t reap the benefits of free health care that your tax dollars give to soldiers–why would you take Social Security, which is supposed to be for people who need it, not greedy fucks who’ll take anything they can?
For the record, we all sponge off the state, to some extent.
Possessing hand guns
The genie is long gone from the bottle for America on this one to stop it. One question though: Why should people have to pass a test to drive a car, but not to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a gun for the hell of it? Never mind the background check and the rest. Name someone buying just a gun having to present proof of being able to operate one.
Is there anything at all where the State should not be involved?
Who I choose to fuck, because I’m an adult and I deserve the privilege of being one. How is it in the state’s interest to force me to fuck someone I don’t want to? What purpose does it serve?
Briefly justify your answers.
Justify asking those moronic questions, or fuck off if you expect justifications for anything on an internet forum.
Is anybody else squeamish about the texture of that jacket John Waters is wearing in the video that introduces this chapter of the thread?
Re gun laws — The laws definitely need work in the good old U. S. of A., but I see one hopeful sign: more states are sponsoring gun education classes. At least safer handling of firearms is being addressed (though more of that is needed too). In Idaho, if a person wants a concealed-carry permit, they do have to offer proof of having been instructed in gun safety. There should be a “No Assholes” rule for gun ownership, but no one has come up with a reliable test for degree of assholiness.
Then we have Republican leaders saying at the recent CPAC conference that they wanted to see significant changes in the political landscape in 2010, and if they don’t see enough change, they’re going to start cleaning their guns. That’s not funny.
So far, to my knowledge, the only people required to have gun safety courses are those applying for concealed-carry permits. I have yet to see a state require that for those just wanting a gun.
There should be no problem with having to present proof of firearms safety before buying one. That sounds like a useful law.
My parents / immediate family (especially), extended family, friends and ex-friends, and even ex-boyfriends have all been great. My childhood was lovely. It’s almost embarrassing. It makes me feel guilty that others weren’t so lucky.
:|
#275 Aquaria
I can’t say I didn’t deserve that.
My questions were badly thought through and badly phrased.
Anyone got any sackcloth and ashes?
Did you mean sparling wine ? Because Champagne was obviously “invented” in the Champagne.
Wanting to own a firearm? Or at least one whose primary purpose is to be used on a human?
Less snarky, requiring safety training with refresher courses (and hence periodic renewal) isn’t stupid: And yes, that easily becomes a license to operate a gun. That’s similar to what’s needed for driving licenses, with specialist licenses needed to operate certain classes (broadly, buses, trucks, et al.) for sound reasons. (Ignore the wingnuts who claim driving is a right—albeit this is where the kerfuffle starts, with the alleged right to own and operate guns supposedly making operating a multitonne motor vehicle somehow different from a machinegun.)
Sackcloth and ashes?
Look, I’ve had some Catholic boyfriends who could get off to that in the metaphorical sense, when done the right way, but I didn’t know atheist guys were into it too.
Maybe that’s TMI…
Pygmy Loris, I recommend a “Results and Discussion” section, too. That would take a lot of burden off presenting the results and leave almost only explaining what they mean. It’s fairly common in my field.
Nettles are, however, good to eat if prepared right.
But daisy soup is better. :-) Only had any once, a month or three before my 6th birthday (in kindergarten), and I still remember it.
They can get away with it because the French u is already pronounced like the German ü.
Gewürz = spice. Derived from “root”, oddly.
Oh, and Alan–I knew you were teasing. That’s why I teased back.
In terms of public policy, I agree that owning a gun is comparable to owning a car. Both are inherently dangerous to the public, and consequently should be available only to competent adults who are able to pass a basic safety test.
In the UK, we go much too far the other way; many classes of weapon (including handguns) are banned altogether, and it’s very difficult for a civilian to get to own a firearm, and self-defence is not considered a legitimate ground for owning one. IMO, firearms should be treated like cars – anyone who is a competent adult, has no history of violent crime, and can pass a firearms safety test should be able to own one.
In a separate, though related, vein, we also have ludicrous laws in the UK when it comes to self-defence – a British man, Munir Hussain, was recently given a 30-month jail sentence for fighting back against attackers who invaded his home and tied up his family. Thankfully the custodial sentence was reduced on appeal to a suspended sentence, but his conviction was not overturned.
Oh dear, I set Walton off… Sorry!
That’s not fair. What did I do wrong?
It prompts in me sadness and compassion, a desire to help, but why guilt ?
I hate technology! (And capitalism, I s’pose.)
I think I’ve spent close to two hours trying to get my printer to print ‘Tis recipe for me to cook. But it refuses to do so until I replace the empty magenta cartridge. Despite my only wanting to print in black!
ARRRRGH! I’ve tried everything I could find, I think. Including trying to reset the CMOS.
Now I’ll just have to curry back and forth between kitchen and computer, I guess.
By the way, ‘Tis, you say:
But I’ll be damned if I can figure out what to do with it then.
Walton:
Well, for starters, you didn’t read the article:
BS
Pygmy Loris: One thing that you could do to make the results section reach out and grab readers by the nose-hairs is to include some random allusion to intelligent design*. Here’s what you can expect. Everyone will read and discuss it. You will get a lot of e-mail.
JK–haha.
David’s suggestion is also pretty reasonable if the journal allows it. I offer this other alternative. Make the results section short and sweet. As a reviewer, I LOVE that.
Regarding the Kanduc paper in Peptides…I decided to not push the argument on that thread, because the author didn’t seem to understand at all what the hubbub was really about. I’m curious to see if there will be a ruckus in the literature about this.
*But wait until the thing is in proof, mmmkay? It might be easier to get this by a copy editor than a reviewer.
David, what variety of nettle is involved? We have a pretty one locally that we call southern nettle, but the smell doesn’t do anything for me.
We also have an ugly little plant called a stinging nettle, and a really nasty piece of work known as the bull nettle, even though it’s technically not a nettle, but trying telling that to Texans who’ve made the mistake of getting too close to one. Ow!
When most Texans think of nettle, it’s the bull nettle that first comes to mind, and the immediate reaction is–NO FUCKING WAY. Maybe this explains why?
That’s probably why I can’t imagine eating nettle anything.
Ah yes… because computers produced by the People’s Commissariat of Technical Devices would work so much better than the products of those vile capitalist pigs at Dell, Microsoft, Apple and so on. Just like everyone would rather have a good old socialist Lada or Trabant than one of those infernal capitalist machines produced by Ford or Toyota.
Note to self: never piss Aquaria off.
Isn’t it simply a fancy morning gown?
In the USA, as far as I can tell (cue Bill Frist’s tele-diagnosis of what was left of Terri Schiavo), the biggest problem is the huge black market for firearms. Over there, it’s true that “if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns”. Where I come from, firearms are so hard to get that most bank robberies are committed with fakes/toys.
The second biggest is that everyone seems to be too stupid to amend the 2nd Amendment. The fact that it’s not blindingly obvious what it actually means proves that it must be amended. Yet people keep merely trying to interpret it over and over again.
I think it shows, and in very beneficial ways.
Mine wasn’t. For starters, it was too short, and I was teased rather brutally for something like 6 years by a lot of different people…
Okay, Walton, what’s going on? You’re being libertarian jerk again, and that’s never a good sign with you.
Hmm. Good question. I guess I’ve always been prone to a kind of generalized version of survivor guilt. I know it’s not rational, but I always felt guilty, for example, talking about my father with friends who had fathers like Aquaria’s, even when I was sympathetic to and trying to help them. And just in general, it feels like guilt.
I felt guilty about mentioning it now, too. :/ The only reason I did was that some things have been said about me in the past implying that I have some kind of personal issues or anger that transcend my individual dealings with people online. I really don’t. Which leads me to conclude, of course, that any difficulties I’ve had with specific people are entirely their fault.
;)
As a devoted nettle eater, if you will allow me to dip into your conversation, this is the nettle that is eaten. Only young plants are eaten,and the flavor changes dramatically overnight when the plant is about 4 inhes high. Then you start on the lamb’s quarter.
BS
I don’t see how pointing out the general superiority of capitalist over communist products, in the field of cars, computers and similar goods, constitutes being a “libertarian jerk”. One doesn’t have to be a libertarian to believe that cars and computers are, in general, best produced by the private sector; most mainstream political parties agree with this.
But of course.
Aquaria, your nettle linkee in 293 is no workee.
Horses love to bite the blossoms off nettles. Must be like horse candy.
Oh, man–none of you could piss me off the way my dad did.
I’m really not all that violent, and I’ve never started a physical fight of any kind. Well, except when I was 6 or 7 years old and this bully pushed me into the deep end of a pool on the second day I’d been taking swimming lessons. After I quit being fucking freaked from nearly dying, I went nuts on her. The school and pool staff pretended not to see anything. Different age.
Fair question, and I suppose it’s more my unstated reaction to your opinions rather than anything you said. Sorry!
To briefly explain, you said (paraphrasing (and therefore perhaps misrepresenting (inadvertently!))) that the UK’s gun control laws go too far, and that the analogy between licensing cars and guns can be extended so that passing the test is sufficient (along with age, not being insane, et al.) to obtain a license. I disagree.
The UK’s laws are about right. And the analogy cannot be extended quite that simply; for guns, consideration should be given to having an additional requirement of need (albeit that rapidly gets very messy, and I concede needs to be thought out some more).
Putting aside these issues, the trickier question may be how to move the USA from its current open promotion of murder to a saner policy—let’s say UK-like for sake of argument—a process which presumably must occur in steps, over a (considerable? (multiple generations?)) period of time, and is careful to deal with issues like the massive number of guns out there right now. And of course, must have sufficient popular support.
I’ve no idea how to accomplish that. The current grass-roots incremental approach is better than nothing, and I think has accomplished significant things, but… I wish I had a better idea. I don’t feel comfortable in, or visiting the USA, admittedly over-estimating the risk of being blown away by someone on the street (possibly the police) for no reason. And if I survive, being bankrupted by the medical care.
p.s. I’ve no opinion on the UK’s self-defence laws. However, only in the most rare and extreme of cases would I consider self-defence a valid need for a gun; so rare and extreme, in fact, that off-the-top-of-my-head about the only situation I can think of is a rural family a significant distance away from the nearest police patrol who has a history of being violently threatened.
That makes a lot more sense that it seems at first glance.
After all, the other guy probably draws faster.
Well, one of the four central European ones… I had no idea there even were 4 species of nettle there, but probably it was good old Urtica dioica which occurs in North America, too.
No, because the link doesn’t work :-]
To be fair, I have a hard time imagining they’d be seriously worse <smug, toothy grin>
(Incidentally, Microsoft doesn’t make computers.)
Please don’t hit me…
Did you set the printing preferences to B&W or greyscale?
What an incredibly sweet thing to say.
That is so traumatizing. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I’m ashamed of the times I participated in teasing anyone, and proud of the times that I stood up to the teasers and/or befriended the unpopular (not that I was always superpopular myself – prep school wasn’t exactly a pleasure cruise…).
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Would you people please keep it down. I’m trying to watch Curling.
This stupid freaking MacBook–it’s so picky!
Here’s the bull nettle I know.
Walton, you jumped all over somebody who’s having a problem with computers and is a bit frustrated–no need to go into a diatribe about capitalist vs. communist economies over it. Lighten up. We don’t hate you anymore, okay?
No we f***ing don’t – it’s still too easy to own a gun. They end up stolen, and used in crimes, used to end domestic disputes for good, or used for suicides. Nothing good ever comes out of them.
Guns are an attack weapon, not a defence weapon. In your example you pointed out, Mr Hussain almost killed his attacker with a cricket bat. He didn’t require a gun. If he’d had one, people would have died.
Define ‘competent adult’. Since it has been established that trained policemen get it wrong, I’m thinking maybe a 6 month course might be OK?
My thinking is that if you want a gun, there’s something wrong with you, and you are not to be trusted with a gun.
My older brother, Robert, stood up for me throughout elementary school. He reserved the right to tease me for himself.
Sorry you had to suffer, David M.
Post # 269 above marks comment # 27000 on the Thread overall.
With three days to go until the International Day of the Thread, it looks as though we should just exceed 28K by the one-year mark (22:28 Eastern Blog Time, 2/24).
Hope everybody has their champagne, IPA, limoncello, single-malt, or sparkling brut elderberry wine chilled and ready to go for some toasts when the time comes. Ozians can substitute Irish coffee I guess, ’cause that’s kind of early for you all. Teetotalers can drink…whatever the hell it is that you people drink.
Oh, and bacon.
Okay, Walton, what’s going on? You’re being libertarian jerk again, and that’s never a good sign with you.
It’s a constant, not a variable.
@ 277:
My older sister just got her pistol permit and not only did she have to go through a background check, but she had to take a safety class as well (she had to show that she could disassemble/resemble, they went over how to safely store firearms, etc etc.). But it differs county by county here, so I’m sure if you were out in the boondocks and were buddies with the sheriff, you could probably get a permit pretty easily.
Re netttles – it must be the sort that these guys eat:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/articles/2005/06/17/nettle_eating_feature.shtml
I’d rather swallow 50 scotch bonnet chilis at once, myself.
P.S. I’m talking about NY.
Catch-23.
I think we can make a useful distiction between handguns and other firearms. I do not own any guns, because I have never needed one. If, however, I lived with my family in some isolated rural area, I would think seriously about having a self-defense weapon around, but then it sure as hell wouldn’t be no handgun.
If it’s me against x badguys, I’ll take a shotgun, please, every time.
That’s my thinking as well (in general), which I put a bit snarkily @282. I say “in general” since certain people, in certain situations, do legitimately need a firearm. As one example, a polar explorer, where firearms are the last defence against polar bears.
…plus, when one is not self-defensin’, one can use one’s shotgun to bag dinner.
(marinated tofu my ass)
Why cars, and particular sorts of cars, dominate in certain places should be something for you to deal with.
And did the person you were responding to say anything about Communist products? Or do anything other than make a joke?
You might want to study this history a bit more.
Who gives a shit what “most mainstream political parties” think about anything? That’s not an argument.
This larger idea that capitalism drives technological progress in realms or ways that are beneficial to humanity is, I think, false, and dangerously so, and something I’m working to contend with.
There is a trick to eating them raw. You fold the leaf, which lacks stinging hairs, over the petiole. the stinging hairs are broken before they can penetrate the mucosa, and no discomfort results.
BS
Chill a single-malt? Blasphemer!
Now that is a recipe I don’t want!
I agree they are borderline useless for self-defense. I don’t agree that
Many of my friends who would never consider shooting a person have guns for hunting. I don’t think they own handguns, however.
My fiance did receive a handgun from his father for this past xmas, on the stipulation that Fiance takes the concealed carry courses before he can actually have it.
Unfortunately, what David Marjanović said,
is true, at least here. I have heard of very little gun crime, to the point of I can’t think of a single instance, where a licensed gun owner has misused a gun. Most of the damage here comes from illegal guns. How do you outlaw something that is already outlaw?
It’s not an argument for the correctness of my position, and I wasn’t using it as such. Rather, I was intending to respond to Aquaria’s accusation that I was acting like a “libertarian jerk”, by pointing out that I was expressing a view shared by most people, not just libertarians. Admittedly, I may not have been particularly clear or coherent (I’ve had a crazy week and my brain isn’t working properly).
Walton,
you’re not a libertarian for prefering capitalist computers to communist ones, but for mentioning it. Oh, and for comparing cars with guns from a public policy standpoint.
Cars can sometimes be useful. Guns ?
=8-)
My, that was a gaffe!
I was just trying to be inclusive of the local peatophiles. And instead I have offended same.
embarrassing
apologies
Yes, I realize this, and was on the verge of clarifying. But I think Aquaria’s suggestion was that you were being a libertarian jerk by bringing up the question of Communist products in response to Sili’s joke in the first place.
Further, “most major political parties” (where?) is not the same as “most people.” And both groups could be propertarian jerks to the extent that they make the claim that computer technology should be left to capitalists.
Indeed. That problem, and I concur, it’s a real problem, does not, of course, mean it shouldn’t be outlawed or regulated or whatevered. For instance, theft is illegal, yet thefts occur, hence theft should be legal?
In the case of firearms, whether or not you distinguish between pistols and other firearms, or between weapons (designed/intended to be used on people) or other purposed firearms (for hunting, marksmanship, polar bear defence, et al.), or so on. there’s the problem that some ownership and operation has to be legal. (Unlike theft, unless you consider taxes theft.) I’ve no idea how serious a problem this “some will be legal” problem is, but it throws a complication into the mix. Unfortunately.
Lynna:
I was the one who stood up for my brothers. Usually, I could do it with words, but, sometimes, I took a few punches for them, and returned the punches with a few of my own. Why? Well, if my brothers came home banged up, guess who took the blame for it?
Yeah, me. There I was, a skinny little girl facing boys older than me who weren’t very nice, and who didn’t have a problem hitting a girl.
But they all learned; I might get my ass kicked, but not a single one of them went home unscathed.
I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here (again, the fault is probably mine and not yours, as I’m not at my sharpest right now).
As I understand it, capitalism clearly does drive technological progress, in lots of ways. As I see it, most of these have both benefits and drawbacks. For instance, it is a result of capitalism that amenities like fridges, cars, computers, and the like are mass-produced at prices the ordinary consumer can afford; on the one hand, this vastly increases the average person’s quality of life, but on the other hand, it comes at a massive environmental cost, creating higher pollution and the danger of future scarcity of resources.
Other economic systems drive technological progress too, but in different directions. The Soviet Union had plenty of technological progress, but most of its technical achievements were directed towards weapons and towards state-glorifying projects, such as the space race, rather than producing better consumer goods and appliances for the average citizen. As a result, the average Soviet citizen had a lower standard of living than the average American or Western-European citizen.
At the same time, I’m certainly not saying that capitalist technological progress is always magically directed towards the good of humanity. Plenty of it is directed towards things that are useless or even harmful for the average person – developing new and more innovative ways to aggressively advertise products, for instance.
This is, of course, a layman’s view, as I’m not an economist, so please correct me if I’ve totally misunderstood what you were talking about.
I’m so glad I live in a country where people can’t get handguns for Christmas. Apart from the toy models.
Several Comments
Re – Munir Hussain
There was quite a hoo-haa in England over this case. Unfortunately, in the emotional reaction a number of facts were ignored/forgotten/played down. A good summary is given in:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/philipjohnston/6822702/Was-Munir-Hussain-supposed-to-let-the-intruders-escape.html
One of the things missed out is that the attempted robber and knife man is said to have suffered brain damage such that he was unable to plead when he was put on trial (according to his lawyer). However, the 50+ conviction serial crimial was still able to commit another robbery between the offense and his trial! This got lost in the sympathy for him when he was beaten up.
Also, at least one report suggested there was more to this than meets the eye. Hussein is reported to be a millionaire and apparently had made enemies during his rise in success. That the actions of the attempted thieves and by Hussein and his brother was a continuation of a feud is a distinct possibility. Did Hussein take the opportunity to respond in kind?
I suspect there was a lot more going on than the press (with their own axes to grind) and the public (fired up by incomplete reports in the MSM) really understand.
To defend yourself and your family against armed intruders in your own home is one thing. To chase after them with a cricket bat and (according to at least one report) a length of iron is another. It takes quite a bit to smash a cricket bat into 3 pieces!
There is a stage, IMHO, when it is worth considering that a Judge and Jury might have got it closer to being right than the instantaneous emotional reaction of the public mob.
I’m not terribly keen on the children’s toys, albeit replicas which cannot be converted and are not intended as toys are Ok-ish (especially if it’s obvious, from a distance, it’s a safe “replica”)…
What I do wish is not so many police would carry guns, but I’ve no idea how practical that is here in France. It works in Ireland and the UK, but transporting that bit of culture et al., no matter how sensible, could be very difficult, or precluded by other factors (such as not being an “isolated” on an island?).
Now, now Pharyngulites. Before we all veer off into a predictable rant between the Capitalist Scum and the Libertarian Bastards, let’s look at what happened up-thread. Sili said:
I’m betting Sili’s complaint was a humorous dig at something we all find frustrating – planned obsolescence. We all hate built-in software constraints that prevent us from using the remaining ink in a cartridge, just because the manufacturer decides it’s time for us to pay for more product. Is that the very definition of capitalism? No, but it’s one of its most infuriating manifestations.
Now young Walton, though you’ve made admirable progress broadening your views in conversations here, you’re still on a hair trigger (and that Diet-Pepsi-as-Sleep-Substitute sure ain’t helping). Is it possible your emotional sympathies with libertarianism caused you to completely overlook the more charitable reading of Sili’s comment? I think so, since you immediately started talking about the People’s Commissariat, blah, blah, blah. I rather like you Walton, but I almost had to take off my silk dandy gloves and slap you.
Turning a schoolmarmish eye to the other side of the class. . .now Ms. SC, you allowed yourself to get sucked into this and turn sanctimonious. As one of the top students in this class, I’ve come to expect more from you, young lady. I want you to write “I will work on my sense of humor” 100 times on the blackboard after class. Don’t tell anyone, but I’ll allow you make fun of other classmates while I grade papers, so long as you do so quietly.
As for the rest of the class, that’s enough tittering (slaps ruler on desk and replaces glasses on tip of nose)!
SpokesGay has spoken. And you if children don’t mind me, I’ll call in Locutus of Gay, and you don’t want to deal with him. Especially you, Walton – he speaks for The Collective.
A car, when used right, harms no one (at least directly). A gun, when used right, kills. Isn’t that enough to treat them differently?
A gun as a Christmas gift? That’s some fucked up country you have there…
Re-nettles
http://www.brewuk.co.uk/store/index.php/recipes-nettle-beer
um, that would be a pretty crappy replica, no?
sticks out tongue …No, crawls back into his lair and throws out a few more peas …No, goes off to fix dinner… Yea, that’s it, dinner (no fecking peas!) time!
Walton:
FWIW, my questions about how you’re doing have been based on genuine concern. Something about your use of language today has indicated not being yourself.
How about this: I take responsibility for being a jerk for calling you a jerk when you went off about something the way you did. We all have our jerk moments, and that doesn’t have to be the end of the world.
P.S. Get some sleep–it’ll help.
I agree that the emotional reaction of the mob should have absolutely no influence on the application of the law. (Most of the reader comments on that article are depressingly authoritarian, punitive and violent, with at least one deranged wingnut advocating the reintroduction of public hangings.) I’ve spoken out against populist punitivism repeatedly in the past, and will continue to do so.
At the same time, one of the most fundamental amenities of human life is the right to the security and privacy of home and family life – recognised, inter alia, in Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights. My personal view is that individuals should not have to rely on the state to enforce this right on their behalf. If someone breaks into your home, invading the security of your private and family life, I would argue that you should be able to use force against them, whether or not there is an immediate threat of violence.
I never could. Unless you’re into that sorta thing – and even then I doubt I could.
Yah, I tried that. Even made sure to check the “Use only black cartridge” option. Still no worky unless I replace the magenta.
My complaint about ‘capitalism’ is that HP (and just about everyone else) gets away with selling me a printer below cost by forcing me to buy overpriced ink. And then in cases like this, make a product that cannot be overridden so that I can print out a fscking half-page recipe with the 75% full black cartridge because I have at some point of other printed out too much red stuff.
Correct. Give that ape a banana. (That’s why I used “quotes”.)
And I don’t consider the “replica” being crappy a problem. Arguably, the crappier the better, since then if some arsehole tries to disguise the real thing as a “replica”, you’d have concrete grounds for arresting/charging the guy with something meaning “planning to commit violence” or whatever is appropriate. Admittedly, if the disguise is good or carelessly-observed, you may not know it until too late…
I had a similar obsolescence computer problem with my scanner. I bought it the same time as my previous computer (2001), and use it maybe half a dozen times a year, usually for the Redhead. My USB connections showed the scanner present, but none of the software would recognize it, rendering it unusable. Dug out my old computer, and it worked just fine.
This is so vague as to be meaningless.
Again.
First, I hate the word “consumer” used in this general way. The figure of the consumer is a creation of modern capitalism, and one that should go. But who (and where) is this “ordinary consumer,” this “average person,” and how do you define quality of life? Also, you’re talking about the capture of certain technologies for mass production for individuals, which is by no means an unqualified positive, rather than about the historical development of the technology in general.
This isn’t a future danger. It’s a current fact. And destroying the planet for future generations does seem to counterbalance a few amenities for a segment of the population of certain countries for a brief time.
You’re the only one talking about other economic systems, and you’re only offering one example. No one here has championed Communism (state capitalism), so it’s silly to bring it up. Unless you’re saying that “there is no alternative,” with which I disagree, and I think history has shown and is showing that capitalism is quite bad for technology if by technology we mean that which helps to fulfill basic human needs and contribute to happiness (if you mean something else, then I’m not sure we can have a conversation).
As I’ve said before, you really need to get away from the abstract “average person” and look at the real social history of technology.
Sven,
Thanks. That was helpful. I guess I’m just having problems differentiating the results and discussion.
Err… what? Your definition of capitalism includes Communism? I really hope I’m misreading you here.
Some gun stories from Ga.
A colleage in the US power industry has the same surname as me but preceeds it with Jo. He is a Southern Baptist in the outskirts of a small town of about 17,000 with 11,000 going to one church and 5,000 to the other – every Sunday. He came from a smaller township where there was a town ordinance that every household had to have a loaded handgun. Crime rate was almost zero – he couldn’t remember the last break-in. He painted the picture of a lady in her 80s with a 45 magnum – “Come on, punk, make my day …”
Jo owned about 15 handguns (he wasn’t sure off the top of his head how many when I asked). Of these 4 were museum pieces and a couple were disabled. The remainder were fully operational, with 5 fully loaded, and distributed between his wife’s handbag, the master bedroom of his house and his pickup. He and his wife practiced regularly in the woods behind his house.
He was driving me one day and he asked me how many guns I thought he had in the truck. Clearly, English grammar and usage requires “guns” to be a minimum of 2. He replied he wasn’t sure because it was his son’s truck but there were 3 that he knew of and possibly one or two more.
To an Englishman all this was way beyond my experience. I found his attitude to it all and to the law in general was simply not what I would have expected of a Christian but I gather it was normal round that way.
Strange world.
Excellent! I fought back a dog that was threatening one of my younger brothers once (using rocks), but for the most part, my younger brothers took care of each other, and my older brother took care of me. Luck of the draw.
I was and am a tomboy, so I don’t require a lot of care and coddling. At age thirteen I remember thinking that girls, in general, were an alien race. They didn’t understand that climbing trees was more fun than painting one’s fingernails. Later, I came across like-minded females, but my early teen years were rough.
Weird… When I submitted my comment @342, I got a new-to-me error:
Nonetheless, the comment submission worked.
That’s Dr. SC to you, young man. :)
WTF? Where?
Dude, I was responding to Walton’s serious response to Sili’s joke. He was not joking.
But there are questions involved that are of importance to me. Seriously, piss off.
blf,
I like shooting handguns. My dad has a few, and we like to go out and shoot at inanimate targets. We’re not assholes, and we have no intention of ever using them on people. I really don’t see any problem with enjoying firearms. It’s wanting to use them on people that’s the problem.
Aquaria #274
‘For the record, we all sponge off the state, to some extent.’
Now this is probably going to get me condemned as as libertarian jerk as well as an’ignorant engineer’
BUT isn’t it the case that the State has no money of its own, only that which it collects from its citizens?
Everyone sponges off the State? How?
Fine, let’s be more specific. Owning a refrigerator enhances a person’s quality of life in measurable ways. Under our present capitalist economy, far more people in the Western world (and an increasing number in many developing countries) are able to afford refrigerators than at any other time in human history. This is a benefit which capitalism has brought to the quality of life of actual, identifiable people. Ditto for other amenities – central heating, indoor plumbing, computers, television, microwaves. My grandparents, like most British people of their generation, grew up without these things. Like most British people of my generation, I grew up with these things. That is a measurable improvement, and one which can be ascribed to capitalism.
The downside, as I have acknowledged, is the environmental cost. And that’s a major drawback to capitalism which I will not deny. But that’s an argument for limiting and regulating the operations of businesses in specific ways, so as to control pollution and conserve scarce resources; it’s not an argument for getting rid of capitalism altogether.
OK then. Give me an example of another form of socio-economic organisation, which has actually existed in an actual country in human history, which has been better than a capitalist-mixed economy at directing technological progress for the benefit of its citizens.
War also drives technological progress.
#351 Pygmy Loris
“Guns don’t kill people – people kill people”
(Maybe guns make it easier, though!)
UK used to be pretty good in the target shooting at the Olympics but now it is virtually impossible to practice in the UK with the gun control laws. I understand the UK team has to travel abroad to be able to work out.
In a separate, though related, vein, we also have ludicrous laws in the UK when it comes to self-defence – a British man, Munir Hussain, was recently given a 30-month jail sentence for fighting back against attackers who invaded his home and tied up his family. Thankfully the custodial sentence was reduced on appeal to a suspended sentence, but his conviction was not overturned. – Walton@286
No, he wasn’t convicted for “fighting back”. He and his brother chased the intruders down the street and one was given permanent brain damage by being hit over the head with a baseball bat. Morally, perhaps he deserved it. Legally, it was grievous bodily harm, and the extreme provocation was, rightly, considered only as a mitigating factor. Here’s a quote from your link, Walton, which you don’t appear to have read:
Lord Judge said: “This trial had nothing to do with the right of the householder to defend themselves or their families or their homes.
“The burglary was over and the burglars had gone. No one was in any further danger from them.”
It’s not particularly relevant here, but:
http://www.infoshop.org/page/AnarchistFAQSectionH3
Sven,
Shotguns are difficult to maneuver. What you would want is one with a short barrel (but still legal!) and a pistol grip. Pump action is also important since the sound of a shotgun being pumped is one of the most frightening to people who think you’re going to use it.
I should also make clear that I am not arguing for an unregulated, or even necessarily a less-regulated, form of capitalism. I’m simply arguing that the status-quo – a capitalist-mixed economy – is, despite its drawbacks, better for most people than any other form of socio-economic organisation that has ever been attempted. Within that framework, there’s plenty of room for reasonable debate about how much social spending, regulation, or redistribution of wealth is desirable. But advocating an end to capitalism, and its replacement with some other socio-economic system, seems to me to be pie-in-the-sky idealism which would, in practice, lead to massive human suffering. (I hasten to add that I would say exactly the same about “anarcho-capitalists” who advocate an end to the state.)
SC – really, I was only trying to gently and humorously defuse the situation. It seemed to me Walton’s own stunted sense of humor caused him to overreact to what Sili said in the first place, and that’s what started the whole thing.
Of course those issues are important, and I agree with your take on them. I’m a friend. . . you don’t need to gird up for battle with me:) Perhaps my own silliness was out of place, so I’ll slink away.
Citizens also collect money from other citizens. Does that mean it’s not their own ?
1)In light of the gruesome fact that February 20th exists, and even sleeping through most of it doesn’t make it go away, the key lime pie had to be a cheesecake. I will try the
lemonlime meringue version next time though.2)having been in the presence of both types for extended periods of time, I submit that Trabants and Skodas were in no way worse than some of the shit that came out of the factories of the Big Three in the 70’s. Those fuckers took planned obsolescence to truly epic levels.
The author strikes me as utterly hapless. Barely a clue about the very existence of creationism; no clue about plagiarism; unable to explain what s/he wants to explain the first time around.
Anyway, SC beheld the wonderfulness of the word ubiquitinylation on that thread (“ubiquitylation” doesn’t exist). It’s the process of attaching a chain or tree of molecules of the small protein ubiquitin to a protein that cannot be folded properly (which usually means it’s damaged). Ubiquitin is the tag for delivery to the proteasome, the protease-some, which is a tube the inside of which is an enzyme (well, several) that turns proteins back into free amino acids.
The name comes from the fact that ubiquitin is ubiquitous in eukaryotes. I don’t know how archaea deliver stuff to their proteasomes; bacteria lack proteasomes.
Latin ubique = “everywhere”.
:-o
Wow. I thought this kind of thing happened only in comics.
…Ridiculously huge caveman clubs don’t actually break where they’re thickest, do they…?
ROTFL!
My personal view is that the state has a duty to protect individuals. That’s one of the reasons for having a state at all.
<inhale>MWA HA HA HA HAAAAAH!!!</inhale>
Stand back while SC makes you feel conservative again. I’d go make popcorn if I actually liked popcorn.
blockquote fail,
SteveV
Citizens also collect money from other citizens. Does that mean it’s not their own ?
(btw, what you wrote is one of the things that annoys me the most about glibertarians)
Walton,
I hate to tell you, but this sentence
is jibberish. The opportunity to own a refrigerator, at all, has only existed for a brief time in human history. Useful refrigerators have only been around for about a century.
PL, does your father own handguns solely because they’re fun?
Because if even one of the reasons he has them around is for defense of his family, property, and self, then he does indeed have intentions of using them on people–if deemed (by him) necessary.
This does not, of course, make him an asshole–your implied dichotomy is false as hell–but be real.
I do not, btw, deny in any way the fact that shooting handguns can be fun. It can. Also,target shooting is a skill that can developed with practice like any other, and it’s fun to get better at a precision activiy too.*
The relevant policy questions deal with trade-offs like “fewer accidental deaths of children” vs. “loss of a recreational activity that some people enjoy.”
I personally don’t find “it’s fun” to be a persuasive argument in that context.**
*I have whiled away many an hour with a wrist rocket and some beer cans.
**In fact, if I were king, a number of recreational activities that lots of people find to be good, clean fun would be outlawed and the ban enforced with prejudice. That’s because I am a tree-hugging liberal New York academic elitist, though, so cut me some slack.
BUT isn’t it the case that the State has no money of its own, only that which it collects from its citizens?
So you want to live in Somalia.
Got it.
Seriously, name a civilized, First-World nation that doesn’t tax its citizens in any way, shape or form.
I’ll wait.
Everyone sponges off the State? How?
I can’t even sigh that you’re seriously asking this.
Tell me which of these you don’t use or haven’t used but like to have handy:
Public schools
Roads
Public airwaves (radio, TV)
Police
Firefighters
Social Security
If you’ve used or liked having any of them in place, you’ve sponged off the state.
Sven,
The guns are never loaded unless we’re out target shooting, and both the guns and ammo are locked up at home. Does that answer your question?
I was responding to blf saying that you can tell someone’s an asshole if the person wants to own a handgun. I was offering anecdata that this was not necessarily true.
Don’t tell me it’s your birthday.
Is that where the interpretation of “Ford” as “found on road dead” comes from?
<resists listing the 4 jokes about FIAT, because that’s not one of the Big Three>
Fine. Just don’t own or operate working guns (or convertible replicas) which were designed for use on humans. You need a bloody good reason to own an attack weapon, and “like to shoot guns” (which I do not have a problem with) isn’t one.
David M,
I’ve always heard Ford=Fix or repair daily :)
Wow, that’s dumb. When was refrigeration invented? When were refrigerators invented? Why do you think refrigeration is a capitalist product?
Define quality of life. Are you sure a system in which a small portion of humanity is able to afford a redundant individual version of a technology contributes to it?
Says who? You’re one of the least happy people I’ve ever encountered.
That is enough of a downside to completely cancel out any other presumed benefits. But it isn’t the only downside. If science and technology were organized differently – more cooperatively, more democratically – we would have made far more progress in increasing human well-being and happiness, and not just among a small group of people for a short period of time.
There are other arguments for getting rid of capitalism, but that is an important one. And limiting and regulating in the long run will not stop the juggernaut of capitalism.
An anarchist organization of scientific and technological development has existed within the capitalist world system throughout the modern age (with or without the formal name), and arguably has been behind great technological gains – in agriculture, in medicine, in software,… – that capitalists forever seek to exploit. Further, many modern technological advances have come out of international warfare, not “markets.”
I’m waiting for the “I paid for that road!” argument.
No, your 50 cents/yr contribution didn’t pay for a multimillion dollar road, dipshit. Millions of people pitching in paid for it.
I’ve started calling these people who constantly bitch about taxes: CHISELERS.
What else do you call people who go to such lengths to get something for nothing?
the gruesome fact that February 20th exists
I’ve traditionally hated this day because it was the birthday of he who shall not be discussed again, but if it’s yours, I hope it’s a happy one for you. :)
My favorite version of the time-worn ‘Guns don’t kill people’ slogans, courtesy of a police officer friend:
“Guns don’t kill people; they just make bullets go real, real fast. . .”
For full effect it should be spoken while pressing a cartridge against the torso of the listener.
For the record, the Grateful Dead 24/7 channel on satellite radio has been a welcome addition to my life. However, it’s no longer allowed in the car, except when I’m driving alone. Too much of a good thing, I guess :(
3)as for the bullying thing… well, I guess I got lucky, in the sense that the reason I first became a target for bullying/teasing also resulted in me being the tallest and possibly strongest kid in the entire school(and certainly one of the most aggressive, but that’s unrelated). After kicking a wannabe bully across the classroom a few times, and the stories spreading accordingly, no one dared to tease me anymore.
not that it helped much. school was still a living hell for me. though, maybe if i had been teased and bullied on top of everything else, I might have never survived it at all.
4)to say that people should have the right to defend their own property with violence is horrible; last I checked, theft, burglary, etc. are not offenses punishable by death, and “cruel and unusual punishment” isn’t just outlawed in the States; but that’s precisely the sort of punishment that results when people use guns and other weapons against intruders.
blf,
emphasis mine
In other words, don’t own any guns. Do you think shotguns and rifles weren’t designed to be used on people? They were.
This discussion is going to devolve pretty rapidly, I think. I’m not anti-gun control. I support the assault weapons ban, testing and certification for gun ownership, and limits on magazine capacity for semi-automatic weapons, but I don’t support handgun bans or more severe bans on all or most guns. A good deal of the meat I eat is from friends who hunt with rifles and shotguns. I like it that way.
That being said, I am not among the contingent of people who thinks that more concealed weapons will solve the problem of gun violence.
I posted the following in the moribund Templeton thread, but I don’t think anybody saw it.
In an effort to stave off discussions of guns and capitalism, I’m reposting it here:
—
Sastra,
I don’t claim to be able to make Karen Armstrong’s position clear or consistent—that’s not possible, because she’s an inconsistent kook—but I do think it’s worth taking a shot at clarifying some central tendencies. Rather than talking about her position, we might talk about a probability cloud where her position might be, subject to Heisenberg effects—if you look too closely, it changes. :-)
Or really, she has a couple of central positions which aren’t really consistent with each other.
In The Case for God it seems to me the first central tendency includes the claims that
1. the human mind has an intellectus in some ancient Greek sense not identical to modern western “intellect,”
2. the intellectus has abilities higher than rationality—mere rationality cannot reveal the indescribable truths and wisdom that this amazing faculty can. This is the highest form of thinking or intuiting or apprehending or something.
3. The higher faculty of intellectus reveals profound truth and wisdom that can’t be articulated in words, except when it can
4. One of the things we can at least roughly articulate is that there is an identity between the operation of the intellectus thingie and the fundamental nature of reality.
5. Mystics in all major religions, when they do mysticism right, realize these same deep truths. For example, the identity of intellectus and ultimate reality is the same thing Hindu mystics mean by their “discovery” (as she calls it) that the Atman (mind stuff) is the same thing as Brahman (everything stuff), and that this is basically the same idea as central stuff in apophatic Christian the theology from before about 500 years ago, as well as being related to Golden Age Athenian stuff with Platonic Ideals and so on.
(Basically, all the wisest and most deeply insightful people in all major religions have always agreed with her, even if that sort of thinking was usually a minority view in each major religion. Religion is wonderful, except that most people do it all wrong.)
6. What we call “God” is this intellectus/ultimate reality or Atman/Brahman thing going on, in some sense. Sometimes God appears to be the ultimate nature of reality itself, but often God seems to be the process of realization of the identity between Atman and Brahman, and the derivation of (otherwise unachievable) wisdom and solace from it somehow.
7. Because of this, atheistic rationalism or “scientism” is mired in a lower-level understanding of reality. It ignores the highest faculty of mind, which is identical to the deepest reality of matter, and assumes that cool stuff doesn’t exist. It is therefore shallow, ignorant and stupid. People like her and the ancient mystics of all the major religions know better. (Except when they don’t, because many mystics in all major religions do mysticism wrong—i.e., not her preferred way—and generate bullshit.)
When she’s expounding on these lines, she reveals some definite beliefs. (Whether she really believes them, or believes them consistently, is a different matter.)
In particular, she thinks that properly-done mysticism reveals fundamental truths about the nature of minds and reality that science has no clue about—except that a few savvy scientists realize that things like quantum weirdness are evidence that she’s right. (So her views are unfalsifiable, except when they’re really not—she implicitly acknowledges that evidence is very relevant. Too bad she has no clue what the actual evidence is, or what it really implies.)
Woven together with this, in a kind of crude and clunky counterpoint, is a whole different theme:
1. Religion isn’t about beliefs, it’s about experience and practice
2. To “get” religion, you have to do it, not think it out.
(That has the very convenient implication that anybody who doesn’t do religion, and tries to criticize religion, “doesn’t get it.” Even many people who are religious and don’t agree with her about central issues of religion—and that’s most religious people—well, they “don’t get it,” because they do religion but they don’t do it right.)
3. What you get out of this practice and experience nonetheless counts as knowledge and wisdom.
4. Since the wisdom you get from doing cool religion is ineffable and unspeakable, the first rule of Cool Religion Club is Don’t talk about Cool Religion Club. (Except when you do, as she does all the time.)
That’s commendable and good sense. It could be better. Don’t store the ammo anywhere near the guns. Store the guns disassembled, with the parts locked in different places, using different keys. As as per other comments, none of the guns should be weapons (that is, designed for use on humans). The guns themselves should be registered with the local police. And alarmed storage is even better.
Everyone living the house (who is of an age, sanity, et al. where gun-handing is both plausible and legal), or at least everyone who has access to the keys, or is allowed to handle the gun (parts), should have an appropriate certification and/or license. One that expires after a few years and requires refresher courses to maintain.
I’ve got no problem with what I understand/recall is the requirement in the UK that the guns (not sure about ammo) is not, in fact, stored at home, but in a safe(? vault?) at a registered gun club with an alarm connected to the local police.
SC,OM,
Don’t forget proxies for warfare. Everyone loves Tang and Velcro, both products of the Space Race.
Homeowners who bitch about property taxes for schools have always annoyed me. When I was a renter, I resented the hell out of ignorant suburbanites complaining at town council meetings about how it was so unfair that they, the homeowners, shouldered all the burden. As if my landlord hadn’t factored in the cost of property taxes when he set my rent.
I put this to the town manager when, as a reporter, I was working on a story about the upcoming budget. He stammered and yammered and said, “Um, yeah, that’s true.” Well then, why don’t any of you ever correct those silly statements when the ignernt homeowners make them, I asked. Got no answer.
As a homeowner myself now for less than a year, I’m even more annoyed at the screeching about property taxes. See, school budget time is coming up, and us city dwellers are being asked to vote on it (yes, that’s typical in the US). To some degree, our property taxes will be affected.
I pay $3,500 a year in tax on a very modest, 140-year-old 1,000 sq. foot house. I think that’s quite a bit, and I don’t like paying out taxes any more than the next guy, but I see it as my duty. I don’t like children very much, which is why I don’t have any. But I do think they’re entitled to a public education. I was a kid, and that’s how I got my education. And even if you’re the most selfish ass on the face of the earth, why would you not understand that educating the next generation of workers, businessowners, and public officials is in your own best interests?
When I hear people say, “Well, I don’t have kids, so why should my taxes pay for the schools,” I want to fucking scream.
It’s true that the common American system of funding town and city budgets – and public schools – based on property taxes is ridiculous, unfair, and unsustainable. It needs to change. But it’s not unfair and workable in the ways most of the carping homeowners believe. They don’t seem to understand that if we moved to a consumption-based taxation system (whereby higher-end, luxury goods would carry a higher tax), they’d still end up shelling out tax money for the bullshit, overpriced status symbol SUVs they feel they’re entitled to. Well, good. People who live more modestly and who are less wrapped up in showing off their material wealth to the neighborhood would have more money left over for things that really matter.
/rant
blf,
Um, duh? The ammo has it’s own lock box, not that we ever have much around. Usually we buy ammo on the way to shoot, but now we’ve had to buy some kinds when we see them in stock. People are freaking stockpiling ammo because “Obama wants to take their guns away!” so it’s difficult to get ahold of some calibers.
As for disassembling the guns, most of our hand guns are revolvers. There’s not much to disassemble, and it’s very easy to check if there’s still a round in the gun.
David M:
I suspect it usually happens when the person being batted is already lying in the road, and the (end of) the bat contacts the pavement before the battee.
‘Citizens also collect money from other citizens. Does that mean it’s not their own ?’
Assuming no larceny in the transaction then citizen/citizen involves some mutually agreed value exchange (buying/selling of goods or labour for instance)which most people think they understand and, thefore, is ‘their own’.
But the interaction with the State can(sometimes to some people)feel like the operation of a protection racket.
Josh, OSG, #381
I completely agree with you. Last year the city council voted down a property tax increase here, but passed a sales tax increase because “Everyone would have to pay and renters wouldn’t get a free ride.” Jackasses.
Basing school funding on local property taxes is so unbelievable ridiculous that it makes me want to scream. Kids in poor districts who often need the most help get screwed while kids in rich districts get fantastic educations including high quality teachers. Grrr.
In general, yes. Especially handguns, machineguns, and the like, including some (most?) shotguns and rifles. However, I’m willing to consider certain shotguns and rifles, and a very rare class of pistols, as not having that intent in mind when designed; e.g., sharpshooting competitions, bird hunting, and so on.
Intent, of course, doesn’t preclude usage or need, and does nothing to clarify the USA’s constitutional quirk. The subject can be an interesting one, and it is one (for the USA in particular) badly in need of sensible discussion (and, I’d argue, change). However, my feeling is we’re squirting dangerously close here to this discussion spiralling into something like a flamewar (in other words, I agree with you when you say This discussion is going to devolve pretty rapidly, I think), so I propose to close it here.
Cheers! (Also, my dinner smells like it’s almost ready—or at least the chicken being roasted has stopped squawking!)
Aquaria
I have used all of those things.
But I pay my taxes
I’ve paid for them.
:) I have a special place in my heart for Tang.
But just to clarify, since I’m often misunderstood on this point: I’m not saying international warfare has produced bad stuff (though it often has). I’m emphasizing that cooperation in times of war has led to many important scientific and technological developments. So this is pointing out that cooperation has been central to technological development. Of course, this has often been in a larger context of warfare/states, which is not good, but the cooperation aspect still stands. I think science and technology are best based in transnational cooperation. I have nothing, though, against scientific competition (to be, e.g., the first to discover something or the most insightful about a phenomenon). I think the drive to find things out and build things exists, and can be encouraged, even without competition, but non-lethal competition isn’t necessarily bad. However, cooperation – within and across generations – is the way to go.
Pygmy Loris:
That’s beyond jackass behavior, it’s perverse. Unless you’re talking about rich people in big cities, most renters are far poorer than the average homeowner. Shifting the tax burden to a general sales tax is a regressive move that hurts renters and the poor disproportionately. So, now these “free-riding renters” (Christ, don’t these people understand basic economics?) will have to spend a greater proportion of their limited income on taxes, so comparatively richer homeowners can pay less. Fuck that shit.
Are you sure the amount of taxes you paid covers your usage? If not, still a leech.
Quite often industry and large businesses are major property tax payers. In my township the two largest property tax payers are Pfizer Pharmaceutical (they have a large manufacturing facility here) and Electric Boat (they make submarines). As a result, the property tax on houses is actually rather low but the school budgets are decent.
I should clarify my post at #389. I do think taxes should be shifted away from an over-reliance on property taxes. This over-reliance hurts people like the elderly, whose income is fixed, but whose cost of owning their home goes up every year with increasing assessments and taxes. People like my next-door neighbors, working class all their lives with a small house like mine and little income save Social Security.
But the tax cannot fairly be shifted to a general sales tax without disproportionately burdening the poor and those of modest means. Higher-end goods and services should carry a higher tax. Simply slapping a flat sales tax on goods and services across the board means poorer people pay a greater proportion of their income for basic supplies.
Yeah, libertarian “self-made men”, I’m saying if you’re richer, you ought to pay out a little more. Suck it.
Nerd of Redhead
(that could be my handle – Miss M’s other name is ‘Red’)
You’r right I can’t be sure – especially with size of the UK deficit!
Um, Velcro was invented about 1953 and preceeds the space race by a few years.
On inventions and/or advancements from non-capitalist sources, how about good ol’ ARPANET (courtesy of the US Dept of Defense), the predecessor of the Internet?
OMG. This is the first thread in which I’ve ever been sucked into the libertarian debate. Oh, dear. I feel like I’ve crossed the Rubicon.
SC, OM,
I like this, a lot.
Or maybe it’s just lack of sleep. How did that thing at 9 am go yesterday, Walton? Have you caught up on all the lost sleep of the week? Are you sure?
I think you should use this Sunday evening to relax. Get something good to eat and drink, listen to the South African national anthem, and go to bed early.
I don’t understand. What caused you to grow…?
I win the self-pity olympics. Again. :-)
(Right after I thought I was now finally too old to be bullied, I was bullied a couple more times. I ended this by kicking the bully in the belly; she flew a meter backwards, against the grid in front of the school gate. I just walked on. She followed me half a minute later and hit me on the back, but that was it… and I got 5 min of fame.)
Being surprisingly tired this evening, I thought “tl;dr”. I was wrong. That’s the most entertaining trouncing I’ve read in a long time!
But even so we can’t ALL be leeches or there’s no-one left to leech ON.
An ecolgy consisting only of parasites?
Just heard of the death of Geoffory Burbage.
We are stardust
Damn, blockquote fail again! #396 should look like
SC, OM,
I like this, a lot.
Don’t worry. I slept for an extraordinary length of time last night and didn’t get up until 11 am, so have been feeling much better today (though still somehow tired).
ok, i won’t.
yes
they are now ;-)
frozen midwest,
Damn, there you go turning over everything I learned in fourth grade ;) I forgot about ARPANET! I’ll just replace Velcro with ARPANET in future discussions.
Josh, OSG,
Oh yes, I’m in Small Town, USA. The city council is run by insane conservatives who think we can fix the problems of job loss and rampant poverty by cutting property and business taxes. Fuckers.
Hee.
[OK, it’s driving me to distraction. In the ’90s, some group in SA came up with a dance version of the national anthem, and people were playing and dancing to it in clubs. There was some silly handwringing about whether this was “proper.” As I recall, I thought it was fun. I’m sure I remember this, but I can’t find it anywhere online. If anyone can scrounge it up, I’ll be forever in your debt.]
being a year older + hitting puberty early = every kid’s nightmare
Actually, I always felt that way if I overslept my normal quotient by an hour or more. Counterintuitive, I know. I find going to bed early, but getting up at my normal time, gives very satisfying sleep.
SteveV
Perhaps the problem here is with leeches and leechees as metaphor. People who need economic help, or who don’t make as much money, aren’t “leeches,” they’re people. Those who are fortunate enough not to have to go on the dole, or who have to pay more in taxes because they own more aren’t being leeched from, they’re paying their share.
Yes, there are no-good bums who take advantage. But that’s not most folks. Yes, there are instances in which taxes are probably unfairly high for even the more well-off, but it’s not nearly so common or unjust as those poor rich people would like to believe.
Yeeeecch. The moralistic connotations of these conversations make me feel dirty. What the hell is it that can make some people feel so disconnected from their fellow human beings that they seem to have not one damned drop of empathy for them? Why do some people see others as part of their community, part of their sphere of responsibility, while others look at their fellow citizens as fucking parasites?
I need a shower.
blf,
Agreed. I hope you enjoy your dinner :)
Alan #347–
That sounds like some of the scary people here in TX. You’d think that all of them lived in gang central, when they don’t.
My brothers are gun nuts. They scare me.
SC @#372,
I doubt it. I don’t blame you for getting that impression – I’m very good at melodramatic self-pity when I’m in a bad mood – but in reality, I’m OK most of the time. And I recognise the fact that, compared to the great majority of people in human history, I have a very good life.
I don’t think I can give you an all-encompassing, objective definition of “quality of life”, but would you seriously deny that refrigerators, home computers, indoor plumbing, and the like contribute to most individuals’ quality of life? Do you honestly deny that Person A who lives in a hovel and cooks on an open fire has an inferior quality of life, compared to Person B who lives in a modern home with a fully equipped kitchen, en-suite bathroom and broadband internet? And do you seriously deny that capitalism has played a major role in the fact that most people in the developed world (and an increasing number of people in some developing countries) today live like Person B, rather than like Person A?
Really? Please show me some evidence for this. The only major institution I can think of which comes close to an “anarchist organization of scientific and technological development” is the open-source software movement – which has certainly developed some good things (including Firefox, which I’m currently using). But that movement could not exist, if not for the large corporations which produce the bulk of computer hardware and software, and market it at affordable prices around the world.
True, of course. But it’s generally been private business which takes wartime technological advances and applies them to useful products for the general public. Modern computer technology was largely developed for military uses, for example, but it was private business which turned computers into a mass-produced product that the average person could afford and wanted to use. So too, in more recent years, with GPS navigation systems; the technology was developed for military applications, but now anyone can get one for their car.
The citizen/state involves exactly the same : buying/selling of goods or labor (eg a share of the goods and labor reqired o build a road, or bild and operate a school, or etc…).
But if people don’t understand this basic fact, and think that their interaction with the state only feels like the operation of a protection racket, then they are irrational ignorant childish incoherent glibertarians.
They don’t understand that the state is made out of citizens, and that the citizen/state transaction is also a citizen/citizen transaction.
The state is an abstract concept. Only humans own things. The state is composed of humans, those who are employed by government. They own things exactly in the same way as other humans do.
Oh, and happy birthday, Jadehawk. :-)
Which one? Die Stem, Nkosi Sikelel’ iAfrica,, or the modern hybrid version?
Josh #407
It was Nerd of Redhead that used the ‘l’ word first, not me.
I don’t consider that any significant number of my fellow citizens can be described as parasites and if this was what my post implied that was not my intent and I apologise.
And for the record, I completly agree with your post.
The three major features of glibertarians are: arrogance, ignorance, and arrogance. Nowhere in their inane and morally bankrupt politics/economics is real concern for their fellow man. As has been conclusively proven here since about 6 months before the 2008 election. Boring unfeeling idjits.
negentropyeater #411
I see what you mean, but the often repeated phrase ‘the government should pay’ usually misses your point about the abstract nature of the State, and so ‘the government should pay’ misses the point that ‘The state is composed of humans’
Now I’m going watch a documentry on Indian State Railways.
blf and Pygmy Loris, thank you for setting a good example for me. I’m pulling myself down off my high horse before I get stuck there for the rest of the day.
Now to return to our regularly scheduled gluttony, I present SpokesGay’s Fried Tofu:
1 lb. seriously firm tofu. I mean, put a brick on that fucker and drain the water
1/2 cup flour
2tsp. garlic powder
1 tsp. onion powder
1 tbsp. nutritional yeast
enough salt (yeah, “enough” means “so that you can taste it”)
1 cup buttermilk (sorry vegans. . .though you could substitute soy milk with some lemon for tartness)
Cut tofu into 1-inch chunks. Salt the buttermilk, then soak the tofu for at least 20 minutes. As any southern cook knows, buttermilk is the miracle marinade and moistener, and yes, it works for tofu as well as meat.
Meanwhile, combine dry ingredients. Tap off excess buttermilk from tofu, and coat in float mixture. ***This next step is important *** Leave the tofu to dry on a plate for at least 20 minutes. This firms up the coating so that it sticks to the tofu when frying. I learned this trick when making fried chicken.
Bring oil to frying temperature – I don’t use a thermometer, I just “know.” It should be hot enough to brown the tofu in about three minutes. This is hot enough for crisping without burning and without soaking up excess grease.
Fry til golden, then drain on paper towels.
It’s so damned good you can eat it by itself, though if someone can come up with a great dipping sauce, I’d love to hear it. Even if you’re a meat-eater (I am), try this, it’s great. I’ve never understood the American prejudice against tofu. It’s so versatile, and Asian world uses it all the time, vegetarian or not. Objecting to tofu seems to me as sensible as saying, “Oh my God, I HATE potatoes. Ew.”
I have used all of those things.
But I pay my taxes
I’ve paid for them.
Did I call this one or what?
No, dipshit, you didn’t pay for the roads–not by yourself. TENS–HUNDREDS–OF MILLIONS of Americans paid, too.
Your contributions to those things? I’ll give you a generous $5/year for each of them, because, don’t forget, those aren’t the only services that government provides you. There’s more. Lots more.
Even if it’s a program that you don’t want, don’t use–well, you’re paying for it because our society as a whole has decided it’s to our benefit to do that: feeding the poor, for instance, kinda cuts down on crime–which means less need for you to spend money on police and courts and prisons–which benefits your almighty personal bank account.
Sometimes, to get something good for people on a national scale, you have to put up some money for it. But you guys? Once again, you want all the benefits of civilization, but don’t want to pony up your share to have them.
That’s what chiselers like you just don’t get You think it’s all for you you you when it’s for us us us.
Fuck you and your self-serviing, selfish self-indulgence.
To paraphrase a famous man:
Why do people laugh at libertarians?
Only libertarians don’t know why.
SteveV:
The burden to apologize is mine. I was so high up on that horse the thin air was getting to me. The “l” word conversation is so emotive, it gets out of control quickly. That doesn’t excuse me from responsibility for my rhetorical excesses, though. Cheers and peace.
21 February :
is the anniversary of the death of the first man to have openly published a book rejecting divine providence (ie God’s activity in the universe).
Maybe not exactly the first openly atheist man, but almost.
Baruch de Spinoza
What’s all this I hear about banning ham gums? Now, I prefer spearmint, or sometimes, if feeling kicky, Juicyfruit, but what business is it of teh Government’s what flavoring I prefer in my chewin
[aaa you get the idea.] Never mind. [/litella]
p.s.blow yer lunch!
WTF? SpokesGay malfunctioning. End cooking subroutine. Replace . ..neeeurrralll. . .gellllpack. . . .
but it was private business which turned computers into a mass-produced product that the average person could afford and wanted to use.
That’s not all the government did, Walton. Not in America.
Most likely, most of the early computer pioneers got massive government research and development subsidies. They often got favored tax perks at the state and local level if they were an IBM or a Tandy, just to keep the company around.
I doubt very many of the little guys got started with personal loans. Most of them probably got nice goverment-backed or even subsidized SBA Loans to get their businesses off the ground.
On a more indirect level, it was the government who educated most of the people who came up with these ideas.
And that’s just for starters.
Everyone of those companies that have been successes have not done it on their own. Not in First World nations. They’ve gotten huge support from the citizens through government help.
Gah! That does ring a (faint) bell, but fecked if I can recall any details…
(Or am I being a complete idiot (highly possible) and confusing that with the utterly different dance remix of Yorba Yindi’s Treaty: Different band, song, continent, et al., except the same timeframe?)
In the ’90s, some group in SA came up with a dance version of the national anthem, and people were playing and dancing to it in clubs.
Shit, mentioning 90s and dances, I’m still recuperating from being at the epicenter of the Macarena craze–when you guys learned about it, it had already been popular in the RGV for a couple of years. This means that I heard it–and heard it–and heard it for much longer than any human should.
Pity me, please. ;)
OK. So with all this talk about the South African national anthem, I went to Youtube to hear it for myself. Walton, what entrances you so about it?
Musically, it’s, well, “pretty”, in that margarine-on-white-bread way that most Protestant hymns are (which is exactly what it sounds like to my ear). Plodding rhythm, and not one foray into a minor chord that I could hear. All major key, predictable cadences. Perhaps a more adventurous arrangement than the one I heard would make all the difference, but I found it kind of tedious.
#417 Josh, Official SpokesGay
Try this then for a sensible reason, at least in the UK. Scientists in a WWF-sponsored study at Cranfield University have a prejudice against tofu because its production can harm the environment:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7023809.ece
So, if you want to be seen to be environmentally friendly CUT OUT THAT TOFU! You are harming the environment, Josh OSG.
That’s sensible, isn’t it??
(Removes tongue from cheek but the report and study do appear genuine.)
Thank you. An organic chicken spit-roasted au naturel (in an electric oven, alas…), with steamed organic broccoli, and a chilled organic Chardonnay.
I timed the roasting to perfection, and hence wound up eating the whole fecking fecker (yum! BURP!), so no leftovers… Unlike the last few roasted birds, which where either over- or undercooked, albeit fortunately I got the Squidmass organic goose just right. No MUSHROOMS or garlic, I’m all out of both… ;-(
And definitely no peas!
Josh just reminded me about squishing the excelss water out of the tofu.
I usually do that too—you can add this step to my recipe if you want to go whole hog:
0. I usually press the tofu to squeeze out water. I fold a bath towel in two, then lay out the tofu slices on one half, and fold the other half over it, so there are two layers of towel above and below. I put a cutting board on top of that and weight it down with a gallon of whatever’s around in a gallon jug, and leave it for at least a half hour. If I’m not in a hurry, I press it for an hour or more, then leave it to air dry for a
few hours. (I usually do all this the day or night before, marinate it overnight, and cook it the next day, so it’s no problem.)
Another thing you can do with tofu is to freeze and thaw it. Freezing concentrates the water into crystals, and when they melt the water just runs out and leaves channels all through the tofu, making it spongy. A quick squeeze in your ands and it’s ready to marinate, and soaks up marinade (or whatever you cook it in) like a sponge. Once cooked, the sponginess gives it an interesting chewy texture.
I don’t usually do that for tofu I’m going to bake, because it dries out too quickly.
Which one do you mean? ~:-| The drink? …Oh, the article for the drink says: “It was initially intended as a breakfast drink, but sales were poor until NASA began using it on Gemini flights in 1965 (researched at Natick Soldier Systems Center), which was heavily advertised. Since that time, it has been associated with the U.S. manned spaceflight program, so much so that an urban legend emerged that Tang was invented for the space program.” :-)
Of course. Sleeping till 11 am once isn’t enough to catch up with a whole week of too little sleep.
:-) :-) :-)
*kisses on both cheeks*
I hope it doesn’t sound cruel when I say I’ve been waiting for your birthday for months. That’s because I planned ahead what to sing…
<sing voice=”choir:heterophonic”>
Stoooo lat,
stoooo lat,
niech żyje, żyje naaaam,
niech żyje naaaam!
</sing>
<sing voice=”choir:childish”>
Hoooch soll sie leeeben,
an der Decke kleeeben,
runterfallen, Popschi knallen,
ja, so ist das Leeeben!
</sing>
<sing voice=”choir:drunk; accent:’12th district of Vienna'”>
Wir singen der Jadehawk ein Lied,
wir singen der Jadehawk ein Lied,
Jaaaadehawk, du Aaaarschloch,
warum lebst du immer noch!!!
</sing>
<mouses over link>
WTF! FIAT takes over Chrysler! What is the world coming to! Lenovo taking over IBM is one thing, but… but…
*finally stops blushing, relaxes face, lowers voice*
Oooookay. Here goes:
Fix it again, Tony!
Fehler in allen Teilen (mistakes in all parts)
für Italiener ausreichende Technik (technology sufficient for Italians)
Al Gore invented the Internet, and Ted Stevens invented its tubes.
(That’s right, there’s a Wikipedia article entitled “Series of tubes”.)
Being a year older got you teased in Germany?
What the fuck.
Haven’t those barbarians grasped it that the teacher is the enemy!?!
<knees trembling>
That’s a culture shock. I hope the sheltered academic environment in which I’ll try to apply for postdocs in Germany will be just that – sheltered. :-S
How do you manage to sleep more than necessary? ~:-|
Not with C. That would be pronounced this way. :^)
On the first page of YouTube results I found another version.
I’ll go to bed and laugh myself to sleep :-)
AlanB, #427 –
Well, that just goes to show how complicated it is to determine just how our consumption decisions actually affect the environment. Lots of conventional wisdom turns out to be wrong when examined with nuance.
But, I don’t even tofu for any reason other than that I like it. And I’ll thank you kindly to get up out of my kitchen and leave me to eat in peace:) And stick that tongue back your cheek, right now!
Walton, before you get into a major flame war with SC,OM i recomend that you read Peter Marshall’s book”Demanding the impossible, A history of Anarchism”. You will at least know what Dr SC is talking about
Sven whilst 24/2/2010 is the 1st aniversary of the thread it is also I belive the day of the General Strike in Greece in protest at the immoral intervention of the EU and the damage done to the Greeks by the Bankers and their political sidekicks.Support the Greeks-smash the EU and the banks Raise the Black Flag over the Barricades
(Yes Prudhon and the others were right)
Paul W – Awesome tip on freezing, then thawing tofu, thanks! Makes sense, since freezing many foods causes the same thing to happen, which usually degrades the quality. In this case, water running out is exactly what you want. I find that even the tofu labeled “extra firm” is just too unappetizingly mushy.
I have much better luck with the bblocks of tofu I get at the food co-op from the bulk bin.
Another method I’ve tried is dry-frying (Google it) the tofu. It works, but it’s a time-consuming.
I cannot speak for Walton, but I suspect you listened to a either a poor arrangement, or one of the modern hybridised version. Here’s an a cappella version by Miriam Makeba, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, and Paul Simon.
#425 Aquaria
Sorry you have such a dislike of Macaroni.
After all that, what’s not to like about Macaroni?
Oh. Macarena? Macarena??
Sure it’s Macarena you meant and not Macaroni?
Ah. You did mean Macarena.
As you were then.
Oh my God, I HATE potatoes
But I do hate potatoes…
Why expect people to like everything you like?
I just don’t get this.
Feck! Link fail. Try again: Here’s an a cappella version by Miriam Makeba, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, and Paul Simon.
#433 blf
Brilliant but the volume seems a bit low …
Mmmm–Macaroni. With lots of cheese, and ham. Yum.
Just don’t mix it with chili. I have a lifelong aversion to it after watching my brother puke up a whole bunch of it when he had the mumps. Not a sight you forget. I haven’t and it was 42 years ago!
#436/7
Drat. Posts crossed.
correction: potatoes hate you, that’s different :-p
Jesus Christ, is everyone on a hair trigger today? I don’t expect everyone to like what I like. Let me repeat that: I don’t expect everyone to like what I like.
I was simply comparing tofu and potatoes as two examples of foods that are considered bland, and as staples. So few people dislike potatoes, I used them as a comparison to question the American aversion to tofu in mainstream cuisine.
I heartily, maximally, grovelingly apologize for having offended you. Sheesh.
#441 Josh OSG
What do you reckon, folks? Is this a genuine, sincere apology? (Does quick hand count)
The Nos have it
You’re not of the hook yet, Josh. Try harder.
The March get-together of the Baltimore Pharyngula Fans, AKA the Baltimore Blaspheming Bastards, AKA the Squid Squad, will be on Thursday, March 4. Details on the group’s web site.
No, Jadehawk–I hate potatoes, too. Love capers, which do the same thing to me. It’s tough to give those up! No more Veal Piccata for me. :(
#442 –
I’m so not getting into a fight over an innocuous comment about potatoes and tofu. I mean honestly.
That isn’t difficult!
You are :o)
I got a comment with at least 5 links held in moderation. It should appear somewhere between 425 and 441.
I’m absolutely certain that you’re materially privileged in ways that you have shown little appreciation for – you have health care, access to decent food, clean water, funded education,…(not the result of capitalism). But I don’t think anyone here who’s read your posts would seriously believe that you’re a happy person.
Then stop making claims about “measurable” improvements to it.
So you won’t define it, but you ask this question? If this contribution were so obvious, Indian political parties wouldn’t have to mount campaigns to try to convince people that highways and auto production are so spectacular. People who wish to travel by bicycle (and not be killed), animal, or water are pushing for a lower quality of life? How do you know? And where do you get the nerve, when the corporations you’re championing are driving the destruction of the planet, which people need to live any sort of life?
Oh, good grief. You have no idea how people live. None.
Provide evidence that these technologies, in context, have led to a good life for the most people. I was in the medina in Tangier and took a tour through the communal bread ovens. Who are you to say that people making bread in their own private ovens have a better quality of life?
All you can say is that capitalism has led to certain adaptations of certain technologies being affordable by a small percentage of people who want them (and of course nothing about the people producing those products). You could provide the same justification for the Roman Empire. Do you think that is a system that should have survived to the present? (No Monty Python jokes. please.) Even if so, how do you convince the people who are the frontline victims of global warming, pollution, and water shortages that this particular form of “development” is in their best interest? Who the hell are you to tell people who don’t want these factories, CAFOs, what-have-you in their areas that they’re wrong? Who are you to tell people they need to be ruled by global corporations, and can’t decide what quality of life they want, and how to define it, for themselves?
First, bullshit. Second, study the history of agriculture, of medicine, of any scientific field and look at the role of cooperation and the effect of capitalist involvement (for laborers, for scientists, for the development of useful technology, for information-sharing, and so on).
Then it’s dishonest to refer to these technologies as “capitalist products.”
Study the history.
OK, we can’t continue if you’re going to keep talking in such absurd terms about “the general public” or “anyone.” You mentioned recently that you were planning to work in immigration law. Are refugees in detention facilities “the average person”? Are they buying a GPS for their cars? If not, stop talking about things in these ridiculous abstract terms. And more and more people having cars will make the planet uninhabitable.
Again, you’re attributing developments to capitalism which are not due to capitalism, assuming consumerism and the violence that goes with global capitalism are conducive – oh, if not in the present, in some near future – to a higher quality of life (which you won’t define), minimizing the earth-destroying effects of capitalist production and associated consumerism, and failing to recognize alternative – existing and possible – pathways to more human-centered science and technology.
But just to clarify, since I’m often misunderstood on this point: I’m not saying international warfare has produced bad stuff (though it often has). I’m emphasizing that cooperation in times of war has led to many important scientific and technological developments. – SC,OM
Yes indeed: from WWII (and the period of preparation for it) we had: programmable electronic computers, radar, operations research, and scientific nutritional studies, to pick out a few important ones. What’s more, no state taking part left innovation and economic coordination to market mechanisms – any that had done so, would have been vastly less likely to survive. Even the biggest firms in the UK had to produce what was needed, if they wanted supplies of labour and raw materials. In brief, there was a system of negotiated coordination, in which expertise of all kinds and at all levels of organisation was used far more effectively than in peacetime. At the same time, inequalities decreased rapidly and both physical and mental health (except for those actually killed or injured) improved rapidly. Of course there were a lot of downsides – overcentralisation, overwork for some people, lack of some freedoms, and of course, the risk of being killed or injured for both service personnel and civilians. But the claims that free markets are essential to efficiency, and that the state is necessarily bad at organising economic activity and innovation, are quite simply refuted by this single example.
On inventions and/or advancements from non-capitalist sources, how about good ol’ ARPANET (courtesy of the US Dept of Defense), the predecessor of the Internet? – frozen_midwest
Also the world-wide-web, invented at CERN to (guess what) facilitate cooperation between scientists.
Love Me, I’m A Liberal-Jello Biafra & Mojo Nixon (2009)
@David
Well, perhaps I am. It just makes me very cross indeed to say something that seems to me so non-controversial, only to find someone I like take it some nasty judgmental remark.
Back from INdian Railway documentry -just wonderful -narrow gauge steam locos just great!
Aquaria
‘I have used all of those things.
But I pay my taxes
I’ve paid for them.
Did I call this one or what?
No, dipshit, you didn’t pay for the roads–not by yourself. TENS–HUNDREDS–OF MILLIONS of Americans paid, too’
Stricly speaking, you are correct as a UK citizen who has never paid any US taxes I havn’t paid for US roads.
And yes I was sloppy. I should have said I have contributed to paying for the roads, along with millions of others. Does this sloppiness make me a dipshit? And I agree with you. Saying that I have paid my taxes is not the same as bitching about paying my taxes.
I have always felt incredibly lucky to have been born in this society at this era and I am proud to have been able to contribute to it by, amongst other things, paying tax.
Potato-lovers, Ho!
Advance! Advance! Forward against the tofu-
haterseaterssqueezers and…wait, what are the sides again?
Well, for what’s worth, I dislike potatoes when prepared in certain ways—french fries/chips/fries (with a few odd exceptions)—mostly, I think, due to the saltiness and high levels of residue fat (those odd exceptions are usually neither), or “roasted” in foil. For that matter, I’m one of those rare(?) people who basically never peels the potatoes, not even when making mashed potatoes (which I tend to do with an olive oil–butter mixture, plus milk (not always cow’s) and/or yogurt (not always cow’s)).
And I prefer my tofu to be au naturel—not one of the flavoured varieties (I’ll add the fecking flavouring myself, thank you)—though it did take me a few years before grokking the usefulness and wonderfulness of tofu (perhaps dues to growing up in N.America and not being exposed to tofu that often, until university and the needs of a not-wealthy student).
Peas, of course, ruin both. And everything else. Even bacon.
Josh:
Sorry I’m so touchy about it, but try being someone who doesn’t like them, and can’t eat them, anyway. You’d be amazed at the crap you have to go through over it.
Er, around them.
Pay attention. It is The Peoples Potatoan Front vs. the Potatoan Front of People vs. the Peoples Popular Potatoan Front vs. The Campaign for a Free Potato vs. The Campaign for a Free Cuisine.
Basically, mashers vs. fryers.
The town of Kennesaw, since you mentioned Georgia? I lived there for two years about fifteen years ago. I can corroborate the extremely low crime rate. There were something like two rapes and one murder the entire time I was there (and the murder wasn’t with a gun; it was something like negligence), and there were the usual petty thefts and white-collar crimes, but almost nothing violent.
I didn’t have a gun… although I happen to be an excellent shot with a handgun (far less so with a long gun), I was a poor student in a dorm and couldn’t afford one. The law isn’t enforced. They don’t go ’round and say, “We believe you don’t have a gun at home–please produce it or pay a fine.” But since it’s a law, most people follow it. There is, as far as I know, no corresponding obligation to learn which end the bullet comes out of.
Blf:
Put on your helmet. You’re about to get bombarded for that line about bacon worse than I do about potatoes.
Alan:
You little troublemaker–I swear, you want me to spank you.
Steve V, if you are ever in the USA don’t miss this ride. Don’t worry, it’s government inspected!
BS
I like potatoes. I like tofu. Guess which one I can have on a low-carb diet.
(obligatory mumble about successful blood sugar stabilizing and losing a considerable amount of weight and impressing my doctor thereby.)
Aquaria:
Well, I didn’t realize that (how could I?). But yeah, I know how annoying it is for people who can’t/won’t eat certain things. I see it all the time with my vegan friends, whose asshole relatives say things like, “Well it’s just one day a year, can’t you have a little turkey?”
15 years ago that was minimally excusable. Today I have to think it’s deliberate bloody-mindedness.
My original point (here I go again – I better get back to my regeneration alcove after this) was that I find it odd how many Americans turn their noses up at tofu. It seems to me that it’s not for any other reason except that it’s become stereotyped as “crazy hippy vegetarian food.” I know few people (yes, I’m sure they’re out there) who actively dislike tofu, and a lot of people who affect to dislike it because of this stereotype. I used to be one of them in my even-more-callow youth.
and took a tour through the communal bread ovens.
Er, around them
I was sort of wondering about that, and was impressed at you for still being here after it.
I’d heard about communal ovens, but having never traveled anywhere outside the US, never actually seen it for myself. I’m curious: Do the ovens burn constantly, or just for a certain amount of time?
Oh. No. You Di-int! En garde, heretic!
Ah what the feck is it about Generalissimo Google™ and berserk banner ads today? Currently its some bullshite for http://numerologist.com/ (WARNING! turn down the volume before clicking!), with the tagline Numerology…Your Name is No Accident! Learn Why the Shocking truth of Your Numerology Chart Cannot Tell a Lie!
Knockgoats: Are you seriously holding up WWII-era rationing as a desirable economic model? I don’t dispute that it was necessary at the time. But it was, by all accounts, an absolutely awful era in which to live. Furthermore, there was a flourishing black market, just as there was in the Soviet Union, and in all other regimes where food and consumer goods were rationed and distributed by the state. I don’t want to live in some nightmare world where people have to stand in line with their state-issued ration cards, waiting for their meagre allocation of food for the week, before going home to their state-designed housing in grim concrete tower blocks.
I grew up in conditions of great material comfort and unrivalled choice, compared to my grandparents or the generations before them. I want the next generation to enjoy that same lifestyle; and I want to extend it to those billions of people in the developing world who are currently kept in artificial poverty by trade restrictions, political and economic instability, and bad government.
I would like to make clear that this is specifically a reply to Knockgoats, not SC. I recognise that left-anarchism is different from traditional socialism, and that the statist economic model of wartime and post-war Britain probably doesn’t particularly appeal to SC any more than it does to me. I certainly don’t want to unfairly lump all anti-capitalists together.
random link-dump of the day:
Minnesota Bans Loveless Marriage
and
OH NOES, it’s the pinko commie
liberalsRepublicans!Tofu is okay. I’m not wildly in love with it, but you’re right about how it just blends into whatever you need of it. Even better than potatoes, to be honest.
I used to have a hot and sour stir fry that used it, an idea I borrowed from a soup that had a similar composition. Harry’s is the brand, I think. I sort of goofed around with hot and sour recipes, until I got what I needed. Haven’t made it in a while, but maybe it’s time to dig that one out of the archives.
Tofu has to be firm for some dishes, although mushy is okay in others. It depends on what you need of it. Most of my needs call for firm. Like mentioned upthread, freezing it helps that–a lot.
Blind Squirrel #459
WOW!
I love steam engines and railways in general and I’d LOVE to ride this one! Don’t think I could Miss M on it though.
But would I be allowed to get to the railhead by road?
*bites tongue too late, curls into fetal position,whimpers*
Walton:
Dear, dear Walton. Why do I have a feeling Knockgoats did not suggest anything like that? You are being a Drama Queen of the highest order. What is it with you? Sometimes you engage in constructive, challenging debate. Other times it’s like you think you’re auditioning for some melodramatic one man show.
I’m on the pro-potato gun side. But only when said potato guns are used to hunt tofurkeys.
Eating tofu makes you a weak, liberal commie. I thought everyone knew that ;)
Regarding potatoes: There are a number of forms of potato I dislike. I really can’t stand mashed potato, and won’t eat it in any circumstances. Boiled potatoes I can just about stomach (with the addition of enough salt), but find them dull and bland.
On the other hand, I love chips (French fries, for Americans) and roast potatoes.
It’s frustrating that I tend to be so averse to healthy food. As I’ve mentioned before, I won’t eat most fresh fruit (with a few exceptions), and I dislike a lot of vegetables, including cauliflower and peas. I can just about force down broccoli, carrots and most forms of salad, and I quite like sweetcorn, but I find it very hard to motivate myself to eat vegetables at all when I’m preparing food for myself. I find I just crave fat and calories all the time (though I do carefully monitor my calorie intake and try to keep it within RDA levels).
Runs back to his lair, slams shut the portcullis, and perhaps the vats of boiling peas to drop on the heads of the invading hordes…
Walton,
You really showed that Soviet straw man who’s boss didn’t you?
Argh. Re-reading my post at #465, it wasn’t especially coherent (I left out half of what I intended to say). I’ll expand on this tomorrow, as I’m going to bed soon. (Despite sleeping for about 10 hours last night, I still feel exhausted and have barely got any work done today.)
Absolutely. Round trip or one way. You can also get off/picked up and climb a few 14ers along the way.
BS
I honestly have no idea. There seemed to be a schedule of people bringing the bread, so I assume it’s only certain times/days.
***
Walton, are you at all familiar with the history of Victory Gardens?
This actually is not at all true. I was appalled by James Lovelock’s remark in his CBC “Sense about Science” interview that global warming would kill most of the planet but it would be cool because people would band together like in WWII. It was disgusting to talk about an era in which millions of people were murdered and died other horrible deaths in these terms. That said, even despite the fear and losses, that is not at all the sense I get from the accounts of British civilians.
Damn. forgot the quote.
BS
oh yeah, one more link, to what my boyfriend calls the only republican president he ever liked: http://calebmcewen.squarespace.com/storage/TR%20on%20Moose.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1247968558316
‘climb a few 14ers along the way.’?
WTF is a 14er?
If it’s a 14000 ft mountain, I’ll have you know that I’m an elderly Ignorant Engineer and had to give up stealing Mark Twain’s
“I’m pushing 60. That’s exercise enough for any man” years ago.
Walton #465
As noted in this discussion of WW2 rationing:
When the rationing system was set up, dietitians were consulted so, while the rationed portions were small, they were as nutritious as possible. Pregnant women, children and invalids got more meat and eggs than adults. Vegetables and some fruit (apples, pears, berries, etc.) were unrationed. As a result, the generation born during and after the war was the healthiest Britain has ever seen.
Oh, I’m so stealing that… Thanks!
This time of year just sucks. The southern hemisphere folks are roasting, and the northern hem. is desperate for any signs of life, and the holidays are long past, and everyone is on edge. Where I am it seems like everyone is stomping around staring at people who have been their best friends for years with the general attitude of “I hate you SO MUCH right now”. Stupid tilt of the earth.
Perhaps it’s time for a little Ezra Pound.
Winter is icumen in,
Lhude sing Goddamm,
Raineth drop and staineth slop,
And how the wind doth ramm!
Sing: Goddamm.
Skiddeth bus and sloppeth us,
Freezeth river, turneth liver,
An ague hath my ham.
Damm you; Sing: Goddamm.
Goddamm, Goddamm, ’tis why I am, Goddamm,
So ‘gainst the winter’s balm.
Sing goddamm, damm, sing goddamm,
Sing goddamm, sing goddamm, DAMM.
Walton,
While I read ‘Tis Himself’s comment, I remembered a book someone linked to some time ago. The People of the Abyss by Jack London. You can read it online here.
As ‘Tis pointed out, things were much worse for most people before the war.
Did anyone else listen to PZ on Australian radio?
I was a bit embarrassed; I thought John Safran would be a bit less silly than he was, especially considering how intelligent and insightful he can be when he wants to.
As it was he came across as completely unprepared for the interview and just asked silly questions and giggled a lot.
Father Bob was also surprising; I thought he’d be more like those minority Catholics who posted here about Crackergate saying they really couldn’t give a toss about what PZ did to the cracker because it – PZ’s cracker, not the act when performed in context – was basically meaningless.
Then again, I felt that PZ sounded more like he was in his ‘Minnesota nice’ mood rather than his ‘angry baby-eating’ mood and didn’t get too fired up about it.
Hey! I think I’m pretty lively, even if I’m getting too much exercise ;-), despite the fecking freezing rain at the moment
Unfortunately, the local women don’t seem to agree, so I’m reduced to watching the rugby, worrying about my SWOTI tendencies, and farting the national anthem of… well, er, strike that last bit.
(Looks at the clock, decides the invaders aren’t invading, turns down the fires, and crawls off to bed and the blanket over the head…)
No peas were harmed during the production of this rant.
None could be found.
They were all prøbably ëatên by a Møøsë.
It’s too late for me to use it without a slight modification.
Yes, 14ers are mountains. I climbed 3 of them in one day. Nowadays I get winded bringing in the mail.
BS
From actual memory of WWII rationing …….
Yes, it was all a bit of a bore and sometimes challenged the ingenuity of the cook but, as ‘Tis says, not all foods were rationed and people were able to grow vegetables – sometimes in the most unlikely of places. The important thing is that no-one starved. You’ll find more people in the UK today suffering from chronic malnutrition.
Remember, Walton, that people were dying in huge numbers to bring in the food which we could not produce. It was only reasonable that what did arrive should be shared fairly and on the basis of need. (If this, too, is news to you – like the notion of state capitalism – then check out the story of the Atlantic convoys.)
I ate part of a black market Mars bar once – a black market did exist but it was not that significant.
‘Tis Himself – I’ve been looking for an opportunity to point you politely at this local food quality / food security project. This seems as good a time as any!
Walton,
Yet that nightmare world is what the current unfetterred finace-led capitalism is driving us to.
What do you think it will look like if and when another 3 or 4 billion humans are stimulated to consume and waste as much resources as an average American or Western European does ?
How do you envisage the competition for resources that would result from this ?
‘Nowadays I get winded bringing in the mail.’
Turning over in bed does it for me
Speaking of which I must go to work tomorrow to pay some tax, Nighty night.
Life was really bad before the rich in Western nations started conceding some of the pie to us rather than have another Russia happen.
That really spooked the bejesus out of them. They were pretty sure we’d get wind of the end of the wealthy class, and get ideas.
Life didn’t start improving for most people in the West until the top 1% realized that the peasants would start rounding them up and shooting them (or in less gun-crazy cultures, killing them in their sleep) if they didn’t fork over an adequate chunk of their unearned income.
We kinda need to instill that fear in them again. No, not actually round them up and shoot them. Just scare them enough to think we will.
negentropyeater #488
Damn – just as I’m going to bed you put that in my head again. That really is the nightmare that haunts me. How can we possibly have the infernal gall to ask the majority of humanity to forgo the life style that we lucky bastards have?
Not very coherent – raw nerve and all.
You know, if I paid $!00 more a month in taxes and got universal health care in return, I’d come out ahead of paying the private insurance scammers to deny me coverage, refuse to approve surgeries, refuse to pay for them when they do, and so forth.
Anyone who thinks corporations are any less inept and bungling and outright insensitive hasn’t been paying attention. If I’m going to have that kind of crap coming at me, I’d rather a government worker making 160K a year get my money than a fat ass Republican stuffing his golden parachute while denying coverage to me.
Josh OSG
Sorry if I went too far. Sometimes British tongue in cheek humour doesn’t travel.
btw, today is the 162nd anniversary of Marx’ and Engels’ publication of the Communist Manifesto :
Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communistic revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win.
Workers of the world, unite
maureen.brian#b5c92 #487
At first glance it’s an extremely ambitious program. I’ll look at it tomorrow and give you my impression.
#458 Aquaria
I desrve it. I’ve been in a skittish mood today.
Aquaria #492
‘Insurance scammers’ -don’t start me about Insurance scammers just don’t
Insurance Companies functionally equivalent to bookmakers but without the bookies high moral standards.
‘Scum, filthy degenerate Scum, every man jack (and jill) of em’
I heard on the news tonight that not one of the 30 children the Baptists absconded with in Haiti were orphans!
http://www.theage.com.au/world/baptists-orphans-all-have-families-20100221-onzu.html?autostart=1
Thanks, ‘Tis Himself. The thing is that it seems to be working but I’m happy to wait until you’ve had time to read it and, yes, they do go on a bit.