Comments

  4. Sven DIMIlo says

    HaHaHaHaHa! Those people are freakin’ crazy!
    Most of those “Jesus” images are actually Charlie Manson! What’s that a sign of?
    Others, though are legitimate images of Jesus…Jesus Rodriguez of Bakersfield, California. That guy really gets around.
    The Blessed Virgin Marys, though, I totally believe them. She does enjoy the ineffable apparition thing.

  8. says

    First, happy birthday, and many more to come, PZ!

    Thanks for this link to the wonderful video. This is truly “point and laugh” craziness.

  10. Sastra says

    It was interesting watching the all the different newspeople try to walk the fine line between ridicule and respect. Some of the reporters were clearly taking it as a joke; some of the people describing their ‘find’ were clearly dead serious.

    Most seemed to think it was silly, but often tossed the religious some sort of bone, usually along the line of “you never know.” You don’t mock faith itself. I liked how the one woman (a True Believer) explained that the people who saw the figure in the whatever-it-was were more “spiritually advanced” than those who just saw squiggles.

    I think her definition of “spiritually advanced” is at odds with some of her theologians.

  11. Your Mighty Overload says

    Cruithne

    That one cracks me up!

    Still, from the video, two bits I loved; 1) the guy the “gave up smoking and drinking immediately” upon seeing Jesus, and 2) the fat woman who said “some people can’t see this, I guess you have to be on another spiritual plane”. “Yes. Yes, you do” I thought.

  12. Buffybot says

    I recently saw the face of Charles Darwin in the wood panelling of a Thai restaurant. Clearly I’m very evolutionarily advanced. Or something.

  13. Paulino says

    Cruithne: ROFLMAO!!! thanks for almost killing me, it took me awhile to regain my breath! :D

  15. Hammurabi says

    I’d like to see some potato chip or snack manufacturer deliberately start “printing” (in edible powder, of course) images of jesus or the “virgin” mary on one out of every 100,000 chips. Even after a few sightings they would get so much free advertising that they wouldn’t have to advertise for the rest of the year.

  16. Felix says

    Sastra,
    she also called it a pitcher. Faculty of speech clearly does not increase proportionally with spiritual depth. As there is plenty of evidence that certain injested or inhaled substances will decrease faculties of speech and simultaneously increase the likelihood of the person claiming increased spiritual perception, we can conclude that…
    what?
    oh…
    incoming news, message of Prophet Muhammad pbuh found in calfs fur in Pakistan, word ‘Q’uran’ to be read in underwear stain of old man in Yemen.

    Someone’s battling for airtime up there. Let’s tune out until they’ve resolved their issues.
    Sheeesh, children.

  18. SLW13 says

    I need a better f-ing spatula, that’s for sure. I try and I try, but there’s no Jesus in my grilled cheese sandwich.

  19. Sven DIMIlo says

    I keep forgetting to examine my Chee-tos to see if they resemble any icons of major religions. Usually I go bag –> mouth without looking at all.
    I might have eaten a Cheesus, and I’ll never know.

  20. says

    @Cruithne, Dude you totally photoshopped that one! Why wasn’t this one on the news? All kneel before the sacred goat’s ass and confess you skepticism.

  22. Kraes85 says

    I object to Jesus being found in a piece of danish! Us Danes are thouroughly ungodly abortionists and devil worshippers!

    Oh! And those people are just crazy…

  23. Pyrrhonic says

    If Jesus shows up that often, then I’ve problem eaten him more than a few times. Is that a sin?

    wait, not if I’m Catholic…

    Tasty Jesus.

  24. H.H. says

    Idiot gazing at a vaguely humanoid-shaped stain on an exposed rock: “I think it’s interesting to see that there’s an image of what we know is our redeemer millions of years ago, before he ever came to Earth.”

    Yes, it is amazing, but not for the reasons he believes.

  25. BobbyEarle says

    “Is it Jesus, or a bucket of filth?”

    Uh, well, beats the hell out of me…can I get back to you?

  27. JimNorth says

    (at 2:31)
    Jesus On A Stick!!!!
    ROTFL

    Two church mice went door-to-door asking everyone if they had a meaningful relationship with cheeses.

  28. DavidD says

    Sweet Cheesus. After watching this, I’m giving up smoking and drinking! … Well, maybe just smoking since I’ve never done that anyway.

  29. Thorfinn Kjartansson says

    Lets just hope no one ever finds a picture of Mohammed on any food item. The consequences would be simply too awful to contemplate!!

  31. St. B says

    I saw Jesus and the Virgin Mary both on a toasted blueberry poptart. Spiritual and nutritious, maybe these people are on to something. The bible says, “…take this, my body and eat of it…” I admit it was delicious.

    BTW, In Quebec, it is customary to have “Chocolate Jesus on a Stick” at Easter, I think it’s a commandment or something, heh.

  34. Ryan F Stello says

    I love one of the items from the opening montage:

    Puffy Announcer 1: “We always on the show try to keep track of where people find images of Jesus and the Mother Theresa…”
    Puffy Announcer 2: “…The grilled-cheese sandwich, The door, the cement floor…”
    Puffy Announcer 1: “…exactly right…”
    Puffy Announcer 2: “yeah”

    I love how annoyed the second announcer seemed, intentional or not.

  35. Hampus says

    We should start looking for the image of Flying Spagetti Monster. Or a tea pot.

  36. says

    Anyone remember Knothole Jesus from a couple of years ago down in Lodi? That was a laugh and a half.

    There’s an installment of Life in Hell (if I’m remembering correctly) in which Bongo asks Binky if God is everywhere. Upon being assured that he is, Bongo asks, “Then is he in the toilet?” I think this theological insight suggests we should maintain a vigilant stance toward future Jesus sightings in toilet bowls. Too bad I don’t have the stomach for it. (Unless, of course, I get sick to my stomach and hurl up an image of the deity as a sign of his divine displeasure with me.)

  37. Steve says

    Jesus, coming to the rust stain or burnt toast nearest you.
    Wow, and I thought a burning bush was impressive.

  38. Brownian says

    I see my face every time I look into silver-backed glass, shiny metal surfaces, and quiet pools of water.

    When you start writing about me 400 years after my death, please be sure to mention my miracles, like the time I healed that one guy who was beset by demons of indigestion with three Tums™ I found in my pocket.

  39. says

    I was watching this and I coughed up fried rice backwards through my nose and there was a chinese jesus suspended in a snot blob on my keyboard.

    Praise Muhammed

  40. Phantasm says

    I saw Jesus in my scrambled eggs. Talk about a miracle, I wasn’t even cooking eggs!

  41. Rieux says

    My wife and I (honestly!) have noticed that the wood grain on the door of our bathroom closet has a pattern that looks very much like the head of an alligator–more specifically, like the head of the University of Florida Gators’ mascot.

    Given that my wife is originally from Florida and is now living in Minnesota, this obviously has overwhelming theological implications.

  42. Me says

    Is it just me or does the one in the sink (5:02) look like Darth Vader?
    Does that mean something? Am I on a higher plane of nerdiness?

  45. T. Bruce Mcneely says

    If those really are images of Jesus, all I can say is that he is one UGLY-ASS dude.

  46. Muzz says

    “Jesus on a stick!”
    That is a wonderful addition to the worlds collection of curses. I will use it daily.

  47. Alex L says

    I love how they’re interviewing an “amazed onlooker” and she says “I don’t think nothin’ of it. It’s just… glare from the window…”
    (Around 3 minutes in)

  48. Jonathan says

    I always wondered… what would happen if someone found an image of Muhammad? Would there be a fatwah against the potato chip/fake wood paneling/toaster company? Would the news people be allowed to report it? :)

  49. JM says

    Hampus wrote at #35:

    We should start looking for the image of Flying Spagetti Monster. …

    But … but … but … there was one in my dinner tonight! Spaghetti and meatballs!

    Oh, wait …

  50. jj says

    LOVE the “Photoshop” comment… Priceless. Hilarious a few of those were local broadcasts here in Monterrey/Salina

  51. WTFWJD says

    I thought it was Jesus in my toilet this morning, but on closer inspection I realized it was Abbie Hoffman. Man, did he look like shit.

  53. says

    First, happy birthday, and many more to come, PZ!

    Thanks for this link to the wonderful video. This is truly “point and laugh” craziness.

  57. Kaddath says

    I see a bunch of “journalists” that look like morons reporting on a bunch of morons than can’t see shit for what it is.

    Cheezus!

  58. Phledge says

    This shit just makes me really sad. What empty,terrifying lives religious people must lead to succumb to such obvious pareidolia! Besides, a good grilled cheese sandwich is a holy thing without a picture of Jebus.

  59. Sastra says

    I liked Charles’ link at #33 (“Atheist Sees Big Bang in Toast”)

    Ever since news of the discovery made national headlines, local hoteliers have been overwhelmed by an influx of atheists from all over the country who have flocked to Huddlesfield to catch a glimpse of the scientific relic. “I have always been an Atheist and to see my life choices validated on a piece of toast is truly astounding,” said one guest at the Huddlesfield Arms Hotel.

    Nice. Reminds me of The Onion piece on evolutionists flocking to see stain shaped like Charles Darwin.

  61. Rodger T NZ says

    Just imagine ,if you had cleaned your laundry tub ,jesus would never have appeared.
    He certainly gets about,what and attention whore.
    My fav`s , the jesus fossils , he he, the irony went clean over their heads like a space shuttle launch.

  62. Rev. Martini says

    My ice maker made ice! It’s a miracle! Praise Jesus and his refrigeration repair expertise!

  63. Nausicaa says

    I personally thought the best part of the video was at the end – when the female reporter starts rambling about ‘storm chasing out in God’s country’, and the other reporters just kind of stand there wondering about the connection. ‘Yup, you see him everywhere!’

  65. Mr Twiddle says

    My wife and I spent this last weekend in a rented log cabin just outside of Nashville Indiana. My wife was reading the guest-book when she started laughing. One of the guest-book entries referred to the image of Jesus in the photo of the raccoon. I had seen this picture hanging on the wall of our rented cabin but hadn’t noticed anything out of the ordinary about it. It was just a b&w white photo of a raccoon drinking out of a creek. Upon closer inspection, I could now see the outline of a man on its back. If I hadn’t of believed it I wouldn’t of seen it with my own eyes. I do believe, I do, I do, I do. Pareidolia is real.

  66. Brenton Steinhilber says

    These videos are so disturbing to me. Sure I laughed at a few parts, but I found myself feeling so sad and scared by the end. The news is reporting on this as if these delusional garbage coincidences are ACTUALLY jesus. These are people who the majority of our nation trust absolutely. Many people in America take what they hear on the news as absolute fact. And they say that atheists are brain washed…
    It’s scary that our world is so delusional. Our species is just so gullible and incapable of accepting fact, we just want to hear that we are more than we are, and if somebody tells us that we will abandon all logic to believe it. I’m saddened that because we use facts and logic that religion doesn’t like, we are looked down upon. We are called fools. We are mocked. Our children are bullied. We are felt sorry for. We are looked at as sad. We are the least trusted group of people in society. And all because we accept fact. What is the lesson here? Is it that in order to be looked at as an equal we must blindly believe whatever the majority believes? Is it to not ask questions? Is it to not further our understanding and our knowledge? Why can’t these religious people look at this objectively for once in their lives? Why can’t they just think for themselves? Why does faith have to be a fact? Why is that so integral to their entire lives and their faith? Why is faith looked at as a good thing? Faith is just believing when you have no reason to, other than you want to. Faith is closing your eyes to fact. Faith is to be blind.
    If your faith makes you happy, then that’s great, I support you. But why does a faith in a god have to interfere with what you will and will not believe?
    And why in the hell are we the ones who are looked down upon? Our society is so damned backwards in it’s ideas. Some day people will look back on our society and they will be dumbfounded by our overall ignorance. I just want people to accept the facts. Believe whatever you want, but please, just accept the FACTS.

  69. MaryLynne says

    I saw Jesus in a quesedilla I burnt once. He didn’t cry when I threw him away.

    My favorite comment from the Youtube comments:

    “I wish jesus would fix my fucking ice machine too. Alah will only fix my transmission – he won’t touch my kitchen appliances as they are beneath him. Buddha handles all my bathroom-related maintenance. The hindu gods are excellent if you need all-weather siding on your house and they offer a ten year warranty.”

  70. MarkA says

    The “Jesus in a sink” was CLEARLY Darth Vader. What are these people thinking?

  71. NewEnglandBob says

    patterns, patterns, patterns, patterns….where there are no patterns.

    Just fried brains.

  72. gypsytag says

    I want to see Jesus on the Dome of the Rock.

    Now that would be something. Not Jesus of course, but something.

  73. Brain Hertz says

    By a gigantic coincidence, at the precise point (didn’t note the time, sorry) where the anchor utters the phrase “Jesus on a stick”, that’s precisely what I was thinking.

    It’s a miracle!

  74. says

    “I think it’s interesting that we see an image of our redeemer MILLIONS OF YEARS BEFORE HE CAME TO EARTH!”

    Okay, I don’t think I need to say anything more.

  75. Citizen Z says

    It’s like that movie, and the girls in the house, and she sees Jesus in a piece of toast, and then Jesus shows up in the Cheetos, and the next day Jesus shows up in a pancake. Then she sees Jesus in the bushes, and then Jesus shows up in the shower. Then the police call and say, “Get out! The Jesus is coming from inside the house!”

  76. DinoBoy says

    One of those early ones… the “cinnamon roll?” Didn’t even look like a cinnamon roll to me let alone Jesus. All I could think was “Holy $#!%! It’s the Skidmark of Turin”

  77. Muzz says

    Oh man, extremist muslim pareidolia would be the funniest thing.
    Picture some irate imam going around smashing kebabs, dates, toast, muffins, tortillas et al.

  79. Aquaria says

    Hell, every morning when I look in the mirror I see George Washington.

    No shit.

    I have an old coat rack which has some old jackets and sweaters thrown over it, and the arrangement looks just like GW on the quarter!

    Does this mean that George Washington has slept in my house?

    Woo-hoo!

    1. George Washington in my bedroom.
    2. ??????
    3. Profit!

  80. MaryLynne says

    @dino – I think they said “Left behind by a cinnamon roll.” It was the smear of cinnamon filling left on the napkin.

  82. Ichthyic says

    Hell, every morning when I look in the mirror I see George Washington.

    no, no.

    you’re supposed to remove the dollar bill from your forehead after playing that game, not leave it stuck there.

    simple mistake.

    I once got confused into thinking I was Benjamin Franklin, but finally figured I couldn’t be that bald yet; then realized I had made the same mistake you just did.

    :p

  84. pdferguson says

    You have Christ between your thighs… only with a shorter beard.

    — Darald (Jack McBrayer) in Forgetting Sarah Marshall

  86. Rob says

    I opened the video and said “Hey, that’s our news guy!” You can always expect the latest Jesus sighting to make the news here in Central Illinois.

  88. Janine, Insulting Sinner says

    No surprise that a moron like Barb is impressed by this. Look, light is reflected. It is a sign from our lord.

  89. Leigh Williams says

    headline: ‘HUMAN PATTERN RECOGNITION WETWARE RUNS AMOK’ Story at eleven . . .

  91. says

    Sweet Jesus!

    I feel sorry for the guy who gave up smoking and drinking when he found that rock. He was able to accomplish that through his own will power, but he’ll never let himself believe it.

  93. simon says

    #66
    I just want people to accept the facts. Believe whatever you want, but please, just accept the FACTS.

    What’s wrong with Jesus ? Is he harmful to you ?

    What is the fact about Jesus ?

  94. Janine, Insulting Sinner says

    Belief in Jesus has been detrimental to the gathering of facts.

  95. Wowbagger, OM says

    Simon wrote:

    What is the fact about Jesus?

    There aren’t any. There are beliefs, but no facts. If there were facts there’d either be fewer atheists or fewer Christians.

  96. simon says

    #94

    Belief in Jesus has been detrimental to the gathering of facts.

    what kind of facts do you want to gather ?

  99. simon says

    #95

    There aren’t any. There are beliefs, but no facts.

    what year today ? 2009 Christian Era.
    a fact that Jesus has influenced your life, even China accepts the calendar.

    instead, your evolution theory is a belief and fiction.
    can you show me facts that human came from ape ?

  100. plum grenville says

    Posted by: Barb | March 10, 2009 12:17 AM

    Signs and wonders

    Ah, Barb – Our Lady of Fatuousness.

    Sighs and wonders is more like it – how anybody who doesn’t have string beans for brains could be so credulous.

  101. says

    what year today ? 2009 Christian Era.
    a fact that Jesus has influenced your life, even China accepts the calendar.

    If you were halway sane, you’d realize how much sense you’re not making. (And BTW, it’s 2009 Common Era) Go ahead – ask Tel Aviv what year it really is.

  102. plum grenville says

    If simon and Barb aren’t married, they should be. No, wait! That would mean they’d have kids with negative IQ scores.

    Posted by: simon | March 10, 2009 3:04 AM

    #95

    There aren’t any. There are beliefs, but no facts.

    what year today ? 2009 Christian Era.
    a fact that Jesus has influenced your life, even China accepts the calendar.

    That is such a stunningly inane argument that a snarky response is superfluous. Do halfwits become Christians or do Christians become halfwits?

  103. simon says

    #101

    And BTW, it’s 2009 Common Era

    not as what you guess. —>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCE

    what about the number ? 2009 years from what ?
    from Buddha, Nietzsche, Freud or Karl Marx ?

  105. Pope Maledict DCLXVI says

    Simple Simon scrawled:

    what year today ? 2009 Christian Era.
    a fact that Jesus has influenced your life, even China accepts the calendar.

    What day today? Tuesday.

    A fact that Tiw (or the Nordic god Tyr) has influenced your life… and your point is?

  106. says

    Jesus’ birth is merely an arbitrary position by which to keep records by, the fact that neither gospel account of his origins attest to that date makes it all the more irrelevant.

  107. says

    what about the number ? 2009 years from what ?

    It has now been 2009 years since the estimated time of the birth of a historical figure – a figure for which no concrete evidence of existence has ever been shown. You find me a text contemporary to the time Jesus that mentions him, and that’s where that debate can begin. As of now, you’re off by about a century.

    And simply because one set of dogmatic beliefs permeated throughout the largest empire of those days of antiquity, subsequently exerting a huge deal of influence over things such as the observed calendar, by no means proves the validity of any of the claims made by said set of beliefs.

  108. Timelord says

    They all miss the point: Nobody knows what he looked like! If he existed he was a Middle Eastern Jew and almost certainly didn’t took like his milksop image we are used to.

    “He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to Him, nothing in His appearance that we should desire Him.” Isaiah 53:2b

    Which is another way of saying he was butt-ugly.

  109. Wowbagger, OM says

    Not to mention the month we’re in – March – from Mars, Roman god of war.

    So, Simple Simon, see how much the Roman pantheon has affected your life? Why are worshipping that upstart no-hoper Jesus?

  110. simon says

    #105
    What day today? Tuesday.
    A fact that Tiw (or the Nordic god Tyr) has influenced your life… and your point is?

    that is not a number of origin

  112. says

    that is not a number of origin

    What does it matter? The number is obviously not Jesus’ year of birth, it’s nothing more than symbolic. It doesn’t show anything more than the Christian influence on Europe post-Roman empire. We have two months based off Roman Emperors, it’s nothing more than symbolism – symbolism that has lost it’s relevance in modern society. Hence why we use Common Era and Before Common Era as historical measures…

    Unless you want to somehow prove that Jesus was born in that year to which I say “good luck”

  114. Carl says

    Funny I don’t see nothing but a blob in all those images maybe I am just not inspired enough.

  115. simon says

    @Kel

    What does it matter? The number is obviously not Jesus’ year of birth, it’s nothing more than symbolic. It doesn’t show anything more than the Christian influence on Europe post-Roman empire. We have two months based off Roman Emperors, it’s nothing more than symbolism – symbolism that has lost it’s relevance in modern society. Hence why we use Common Era and Before Common Era as historical measures…

    it is still relevant, historical FACT that Jesus was alive 2009 years ago.

    If it is a myth why do you still use that number? a fool believe in a symbol ?

  116. Hugh Troy says

    Why does no one report the face of Jesus in a dog turd or virgin Mary in a menstruation soaked panty pad?
    Are these supernatural beings afraid of appearing humble?

  117. scooter says

    where the anchor utters the phrase “Jesus on a stick”, that’s precisely what I was thinking.

    Over in my twisted corner of ridiculing Christard godbots, we’ve had a running joke about Dead Meat on a Stick: as in: Anybody who worships Dead Meat on a Stick is a sick fuck.

  118. says

    it is still relevant, historical FACT that Jesus was alive 2009 years ago.

    So you agree that the gospel of Matthew is correct and the Gospel of Luke wrong? So I assume that you have Jesus born in the spring of 5BCE as Herod died the following year.

    If it is a myth why do you still use that number? a fool believe in a symbol ?

    Because of the Church’s influence. Rome converted it’s empire to Christianity in the 4th Century, and from there Christianity has been the dominant religion in Europe. It has nothing to do with the historicity of Jesus or if Jesus was God-incarnate – it has to do with the belief in Jesus. Like I said, if you want to be historical, just what year was Jesus born in? 6-4BCE or 6CE? Give reasons for why you accept one account over the other, and answer why those tales of Jesus’ birth were nothing more than a means to tie the biblical Jesus to historical events… Come on simon, show off your historical skillz.

  119. says

    Simon

    We use the same date as others so that we do not get confused. You think we should make our own dates up now?

    And according to the bible (Luke), Jesus was born at the time of the census of Quirinus, which was 7AD. So Jesus was possibly not alive 2009 years ago. So much for historical FACTS!

    Of course, the bible (Matthew) also tells us he was born during Herods reign, that is before 4BC (when he died).

    So not only was his mother a virgin, but he was born twice!

  120. says

    I like how the Gospel of Peter has Herod and Pilate as the ones who crucified Jesus, nevermind that Pilate ruled between 26CE and 36CE and Herod died 4BCE. It’s lucky that particular gospel (although still considered a holy testament) was left on the cutting room floor. Though I’m betting there would be apologists who would argue for an inerrant bible regardless.

  121. Wowbagger, OM says

    Simon,

    If such things are so important to you, why are you writing in English? Why aren’t you writing in the languages people were speaking in Jesus’ time – Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic etc.?

  122. Fernando says

    This film make me laugh and cry…
    How is possible some people really believe in such things!?

  124. JeffreyD says

    Wowbagger, OM at #121 – Oh, c’mon, you know Jeebus spoke King Jame’s English. What are you, some kind of socialistcommunitsobamasupportingabortioninsisterhomersexualatehistscumfaminazi?

    And a special note for Erasmus on another thread, notice I did not use Fuck even once…oh, Fuck!…Well, only once…Fuck it! Twice…oh shit!

    Love ya, bro – Ciao

  125. says

    “Though I’m betting there would be apologists who would argue for an inerrant bible regardless.”

    Kel, that was Herod Antipas, one of Herods sons. He was born sometime before 20 BC and died sometime after 39 AD.

    Ya see? ;)

    thanks for the correction.

  126. IST says

    @ Wowbagger: Simon is writing in English? really?!

    (note: If it isn’t his native language, I’m willing to cut him some slack… )

  129. Spiro Keat says

    “”I think it’s interesting that we see an image of our redeemer MILLIONS OF YEARS BEFORE HE CAME TO EARTH!”

    Okay, I don’t think I need to say anything more.”

    You haven’t been paying attention.

    Jesus=god. God has always been around. Therefore jesus can appear in a rock that was formed millions of years before he existed because he has always been around as well as being born 2 thousand years ago. Or something.

  130. RG says

    Amazing how the number of Jesus and Mary sightings have gone up right after a grilled cheese with an “image of Mary” sells for thousands on eBay and gets tons of press. This must be the end of days, I see no other explanation.

  131. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simon is simple. Simply an idiot for his imaginary god and fictional bible. Simon, you had your ass handed to you last night. We know a lot more than you do about the bible. So, keep posting, and it will be a daily experience. Maybe you will learn something and evolve into an atheist.

  132. Heywood99 says

    “what year today ? 2009 Christian Era.
    a fact that Jesus has influenced your life, even China accepts the calendar”

    I’m TOTALLY converted by this.

  133. KI says

    Anyone see the episode of “Aqua Teen Hunger Force” where Juheesuhuzz is seen in the stock of a rifle in a gun shop billboard? When anyone tries to leave an offering they get shot at with arrows, ’cause that ain’t Juheezuhus it’s Ted Nugent and he’s pissed off that people don’t recognize him.
    So now all sightings become Ted Nugent in my mind. Is that better or worse?

  135. Ramases says

    I don’t know why no-one else can see it!

    That was PZ!

    In the spoon in the start of the clip, and in most of the others too!

    It’s so obvious, why am I the only one to point it out?

    What I don’t understand is why those religous types miss the message PZ is sending them.

    This blog is not enough, so now he’s getting to them in their cats and cornflakes.

  136. Judith says

    I gave up at the guy who asked, “Is it a snack or a holly symbol?” Enunciation is too hard!

  141. simon says

    #123
    Kel, that was Herod Antipas, one of Herods sons. He was born sometime before 20 BC and died sometime after 39 AD.

    #125
    Ya see? ;)
    thanks for the correction.

    contrary to :

    #131
    We know a lot more than you do about the bible.

    NO, you don’t know a lot about Christianity and history, probably you’re an ex-bible a loner, only bible as the source.

    back to #123, “….sometime before 20 BC…..sometime after 39 AD” . Why do you believe Herod Antipas was exist around that years ?

    For your reading : Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ

  142. A. Noyd says

    simon (#110)

    that is not a number of origin

    No, but why does it have to be about numbers? Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday all show that Tyr, Odin, Thor, Freya (or Frigg if you like), and Saturn have influenced your life. Pagan gods! They must be real because we still name days of the week by them! That, or it’s just a cultural convention that has no bearing on the existence of those gods, same as how the way we count years has no bearing on the existence of Jesus, much less on his divine status.

    You’re not even original, btw. That’s proof 331 on the list.

    simon (#141)

    NO, you don’t know a lot about Christianity and history, probably you’re an ex-bible a loner, only bible as the source.

    Mmm, it sorta looks like English, but it makes noooo sense.

    ~*~*~*~*~

    I think Frito-Lay should go into the business of making consecrated Cheezus communion snacks as an alternative to the wafers. They’d be much more tasty, at least, and would take less imagination when it comes to the whole “body of Christ” bit.

    I wonder what Cheezus would have to say about cheesnis, though. Completely different implications tied up in eating that one.

  143. says

    NO, you don’t know a lot about Christianity and history, probably you’re an ex-bible a loner, only bible as the source.

    Regardless of me getting a fact from the a rejected gospel wrong, my point still stands. When do you date Jesus’ birth to and why?

  144. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simple Simon the idiot Lieman. We have read the history of the bible. Just not the same versions your read, which appear to the sanitized non-conflicting versions, but real rigorous historical versions that show the conflicting facts. Kel has a point. Date when your imaginary Jebus (no historical evidence for Jebus outside of the bible) was born.

  145. says

    It’s just another diversionary tactic on the count of simon. It should be a simple question: what year was Jesus born? Instead he focuses on me making a mistake between two historical figures with the same name. I admit I was wrong on that matter, but it’s okay. That’s how you learn. What are you going to teach me simon? Do you have some archaeological evidence that somehow has slipped past all the biblical historians clamouring for real evidence of “Christ”?

  146. simon says

    #145
    What are you going to teach me simon? Do you have some archaeological evidence that somehow has slipped past all the biblical historians clamouring for real evidence of “Christ”?

    “….sometime before 20 BC…..sometime after 39 AD” .

    Do you believe Herod Antipas was exist around that years ?
    what year was he born ?

  148. says

    SF:

    “….sometime before 20 BC…..sometime after 39 AD” . Do you believe Herod Antipas was exist around that years ? what year was he born ?

    Such an insanely flawed statement. First, it matters not that Herod Antipas existed – that can be verified through contemporary texts and historical corroboration. The fact that Herod lived during that time has no bearing on the validity of the proclaimed divinity or existence of Jesus. Despite the dogged determination on the part of theologians, archeologists, and many other Christians over the past 20 centuries to find any shred of verifiable evidence to prove their story of Jesus, the religious texts that assert the story as true were all written at least 90 years after the date he was supposedly crucified. There is not one single, solitary text contemporary to Jesus that mentions him, despite the assertions that claim that he caused a major stink one year during Passover. Bearing in mind the fact that Herod was a vassal ruler to Rome, if there was such a series of events, it more than likely would have been at least written about in historical records. There is no evidence for it, and the absence of evidence against it is not proof – that’s why they call it ‘faith.’ Some people believe, and rely on their faith, while others simply choose not to believe for any number of reasons, a major one being that there simply isn’t any external collaboration with the bible to verify the account.

  149. simon says

    @Kel,

    Stop avoiding the question simon, what do you use to confirm the historicity of Jesus?

    the answer depends on what your answer would be.
    Do you believe Herod Antipas was exist around that years ? if you believe, what kind of historical evidence do you have ?

    btw, do you believe man landed on the moon ?

  150. says

    btw, do you believe man landed on the moon ?

    Of course, just as I believe that JFK was assassinated in 1963. Is this a test of my knowledge on modern history or is there some sort of point to it?

  151. simon says

    Of course, just as I believe that JFK was assassinated in 1963. Is this a test of my knowledge on modern history or is there some sort of point to it?

    what is the evidence ? testimony, photo and a piece of stone ?

  152. says

    What is the evidence? Well shucks, you got me. So which biblical account of Jesus’ birth do you take as real? And what evidence do you have to support it?

  153. says

    That link doesn’t include all the data from Nasa – the thousands of scientists who worked on it, the government agents who funded it, tracking of the event, the radio telescopes in Australia that received and broadcast the signal – plus the physical evidence of the lunar lander and the moon rocks brought back, and of course the astronauts who went up. There’s physical evidence of everything you need to corroborate that the moon landing happen – it’s one of the most well supported historical events. What do you have for Jesus?

  154. says

    Oh and we know the science behind it all too. Rocket science has been quite well established as a discipline and luckily for you human knowledge is free to the world. So if you doubt that such an event could take place, you are welcome to disprove by their own standards that what they are doing is impossible…

    on the other hand the bible alleges that Jesus performed the impossible, and the only evidence it provides is 2nd hand eyewitness accounts written decades after the fact. No relic has ever been authenticated to Jesus and no relic ties Jesus to this world. If it weren’t for a couple of secular historians who wrote almost 100 years after Christ, then there would be not a shred of evidence outside of the damn bible to tie him to this world. Prove otherwise.

  155. simon says

    @Kel,

    you have to believe it because of the testimony, right ? yourself never landed on the moon. Even you had, there would be a question whether your testimony fake or not.

    so, it is a matter of testimonies. A photo, a rock, a rocket can not speak, got it son ? I think i am older than you, i am 48.

  156. says

    you have to believe it because of the testimony, right ? yourself never landed on the moon. Even you had, there would be a question whether your testimony fake or not.

    It’s not just a matter of testimony, it’s the evidence that sits behind the testimony.

    Say this was a court case, you claimed to have been to the moon but didn’t have any evidence. You’d be laughed out as you have no means of doing so and nothing to back up your story. Now along comes Buzz Aldrin. After he punches your lights out for being a douche, his lawyers bring forth the evidence: moon rocks, the Lunar Lander, satellite feeds, russian tracking data (remember that there was a cold war on at the time, you would know it better than I do), and a host of physicists who can explain the exact workings that allow for space flight.

    Now eyewitness testimony is one thing, but which one would they be more willing to believe? Going to the moon is an extraordinary claim, I will say that now. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But the evidence is satisfactory that the moon landing is not only plausible but strongly supported by several different lines of empirical evidence.

    On the other hand, what Jesus did was impossible. Yet all there is to support such a notion is 2nd hand eyewitness accounts – the earliest written 35-40 years after the supposed events took place. Then two more stories are derived from that one text – both claiming the story of the birth of that character, now over 75 years after it happened. And guess what, the two gospels that tell the birth of Jesus try to tie it to historical events 10 years apart. Then there’s John coming about a century later, talking about Jesus’ origin from Nazareth. Only problem is, Nazareth was a 3rd century Roman settlement. It wasn’t around when Jesus claimed to be.

    So what extraordinary evidence backs up the extraordinary claims of the gospel?

    I think i am older than you, i am 48.

    You are considerably older than me, double my age if we purely work on the yearly numeric. But what does that have to do with anything?

  157. CosmicTeapot says

    Simon at 141

    We know Herod Antipas existed, not only do we have repeated references to him, we also have coins minted by the Herodian dynasty. We do not have any evidence of when he was exactly he was born.

    I have looked at the early references to Jesus, all of them being later than the death of Jesus. None of the contemporary records mention him or his alleged miracles.

    The first of the references to Jesus are the Pauline letters. This is a man who had not met Jesus and whos religious outlook differed from that of the beliefs of the apostles in Jerusalem.

    Then we have the references in Josephus, with very strong evidence that they are a later interpolation.

    Then we have the gospels themselves, all with evidence that they were written after 70AD, by people who did not know neither the geography of the area, or jewish customs. Yet they were supposedly written by his disciples. In short, early church propaganda, trying to explain to potential converts how exactly the so called messiah came to be crucified, and why they should give the early christian church all their money!

    Then Tacitus mentions christians, 90 years after the reputed date of the death of Jesus, the first secular reference to him. Hardly convincing evidence of Jesus being a god.

  158. simon says

    @Kel,

    Now along comes Buzz Aldrin. After he punches your lights out for being a douche, his lawyers bring forth the evidence: moon rocks, the Lunar Lander, satellite feeds, russian tracking data (remember that there was a cold war on at the time, you would know it better than I do), and a host of physicists who can explain the exact workings that allow for space flight.

    why don’t you think there was a conspiracy ? It’s very easy to manipulate all the evidence and testimony. Moon rock could come from volcano etc etc….
    read : http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm

    On the other hand, what Jesus did was impossible. Yet all there is to support such a notion is 2nd hand eyewitness accounts

    second hand eyewitness is not valid ? come on, sonny.
    ask your parents whether you are really their son.

    so son, all evidence depends on testimony of honest people. If there is no honest people, this world would be chaos.

    2000 years ago, they did not have a computer even books were seldom. Writing and reading scroll only for certain people. Most of them were illiterate, your great great grandfather could be illiterate as well. They used their memory to tell the story and believed it without any written evidence, it’s called tradition.

    Do you still insist a modern scientific evidence ?

  159. Stephen Wells says

    At what point will simon work out that his kind of evidence actually proves that the roman emperors were divine?

  160. says

    simon, you really are an idiot.

    second hand eyewitness is not valid ? come on, sonny.
    ask your parents whether you are really their son.

    That was painful how dumb that was.

    Why am I not shocked that you are a Moon Hoaxer as well.?

    Do you deny germ theory as well?

    Are you a troofer?

    What other conspiracy theories do you subscribe to?

  161. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simple Simon the religious Lieman, physical evidence for your Jebus is required for us to believe. We have physical evidence that the moon landing occurred. Ask any trial attorney which would they rather have, physical evidence like DNA or eyewitness testimony. Every time they will say physical evidence. Why? The physical evidence doesn’t deliberately lie. Also, don’t try the wisdom of the ages thing, as I am older than you.

  162. simon says

    #159
    At what point will simon work out that his kind of evidence actually proves that the roman emperors were divine?

    do you have any idea what DIVINE is ?

  163. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simple Simon the religious Lieman, do you have any idea what a real argument is? Obviously you don’t, based upon your posts. What you need to do is to learn how to do it properly. Go away and practice somewhere else. Come back in a few years if you ever learn how to do it.

  164. simon says

    Nerd,

    i always admire older people because i can learn from him about WISDOM. Can i expect it from you ?

  165. says

    why don’t you think there was a conspiracy ?

    The thousands of scientists employed, the amount of politicians involved, the intergovernmental cooperation, the data and tracking by other countries – you are looking at a huge number of people who would have to be involved. The more people you need to keep a secret, the harder it becomes to do so.

    Again, if you disagree you can actually do the science. Science is open and testable.

    second hand eyewitness is not valid ? come on, sonny.
    ask your parents whether you are really their son.

    If my parents said they saw a tyrannosaurus walking through the streets, I would say they need better evidence than just testimony. Likewise if someone says that 40 years ago God came down to earth and raised the dead, I’d be sceptical. The fact is that eyewitness accounts are anecdotal evidence, they are the weakest form of evidence. For extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and we don’t see any extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claims of the bible.

    As for my parents, I have very much the body mould of my mother’s side of the family and look very much like my Dad. I don’t need to take their word for it, I can see the genetically-inherited similarities. And if I were really unsure, I could take a DNA test.

    Do you still insist a modern scientific evidence ?

    I insist on evidence that can demonstrate Jesus’ divinity. Remember that other cultures also have mangods, and also had those stories passed down through tradition. And are you going to say that Muhammad really did ascend to heaven on the back of a winged horse?

  166. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simon, you have no wisdom. You can learn from me. Repeat after me, god doesn’t exist and the bible is a work of fiction….

  167. Janine, Insulting Sinner says

    Simpering Simon, I have learned some wisdom from people younger than me. And I have dealt with some people older than me who did not survive by their use of wits.

    Your attempt at sarcasm was just plain sad. Stick with what works for you, your obsession with penis and anus.

  168. Ichthyic says

    second hand eyewitness is not valid ? come on, sonny.
    ask your parents whether you are really their son.

    I saw Jesus on the ass of a dog the other day.

    prove me wrong.

  169. says

    Age does not make one wiser, it’s relevant expertise. And on the topic of evidence, you have no demonstrated one inkling of understanding.

  170. astrounit says

    Simon #162 asks, “do you have any idea what DIVINE is ?”

    It’s the snake oil one puts on one’s tossed salad of fanciful heresay stories so that it will stay down easier once swallowed. This is called ‘Gospel Salad’. Without the essential snake oil to glue it all together, it often gets tossed a second time.

    Otherwise its related to the forked rod between your fang, uh, teeth.

  172. says

    Gentles all, what we have here is a man prepared to shell out big bucks for a Roman coin with the date 44 BC stamped on it.

    The MadPanda, FCD

  173. simon says

    @Kel,
    The thousands of scientists employed, the amount of politicians involved, the intergovernmental cooperation, the data and tracking by other countries – you are looking at a huge number of people who would have to be involved. The more people you need to keep a secret, the harder it becomes to do so.

    contrary to : “The fact is that eyewitness accounts are anecdotal evidence, they are the weakest form of evidence”

    what happen to you last night son ??

    As for my parents, I have very much the body mould of my mother’s side of the family and look very much like my Dad. I don’t need to take their word for it, I can see the genetically-inherited similarities. And if I were really unsure, I could take a DNA test.

    sonny, look like your mother and dad require extraordinary evidence. Look at This and This .
    Do you look like your uncle ?
    Is DNA test 100% accurate ? It depends on the testimony of the laboratory technician and his/her skill.
    You should doubt your parents if they were free-sex addicts.

    I insist on evidence that can demonstrate Jesus’ divinity.

    what is divinity ?

    And are you going to say that Muhammad really did ascend to heaven on the back of a winged horse?

    No. there was no eyewitness recorded.
    Consider this : Most of Jesus’s disciples were killed for their witnesses, contrary to Muhammads’, they killed.

  174. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simple Simon the idiot Lieman. Still the pointless fool. But then, all godbots are fools. Still no proof for your imaginary god or fictional bible. Just pointless irrelevant materials. YAWN, such a bore. If he only had a brain….

  175. Ichthyic says

    Hey Simon,

    are you ready to come out yet?

    your fascination with all things penis and anus oriented suggests you have at least spent a lot of time thinking about it.

    you’re gay, right?

    just say it.

    come on now, you know you want to.

    It’s all right, we won’t judge you for your sexual orientation, just your stupidity.

  176. says

    contrary to : “The fact is that eyewitness accounts are anecdotal evidence, they are the weakest form of evidence”

    How is that contrary to this

    The thousands of scientists employed, the amount of politicians involved, the intergovernmental cooperation, the data and tracking by other countries – you are looking at a huge number of people who would have to be involved. The more people you need to keep a secret, the harder it becomes to do so.

  177. says

    If you ask the wrong questions, you’ll get nothing but what confirms your own worldview. The first quote is on conspiracies – that deal in large part with large numbers of people being deliberately deceptive in order to propagate. In that respect, talking about the sheer number of people involved is valid because it’s entirely to do with conspiracies. The 2nd quote has to do with the reliability of eyewitness testimony in determining truth. It’s not alleging a mass cover-up, it’s not alleging that thousands of people are systematically pushing a falsehood, it’s simply to do with the claims themselves. That’s the difference between conspiracy and eyewitness testimony.

    Are you really 48? You have the intellect of a child…

    I’m using a computer right now. You can’t prove that I am, all you have is eyewitness testimony. I’m wearing clothes right now, you can’t prove that it’s only eyewitness testimony. I’m levitating 3 inches above the ground, you can’t prove that it’s only eyewitness testimony. Are you seriously so fucking thick that you think that everything comes down to the transmission of information from one individual to another? That the worth of any argument is merely the ability to replicate said story? Or could it be that when you turn on a switch in your house, that a light turns on is testament to empiricism?

    After all that explaining how morality works to you was ignored by your breathtaking ignorance, I know this is a wasted effort. But consider this. You are sitting presumably at a desk using a device that does billions of calculations a second. You have a stronger mathematical capability at your lap than the entire human race combined. Is that evidence that we may understand something about the natural world – that we have enough of a grasp on spacetime that we can manipulate it to our own ends? Or is that simply eyewitness testimony in the same breath that Jesus rose Lazarus from the dead?

    Your complete lack of insight into how science and history works is incredibly disturbing considering you are 48 years old. It’s even more disturbing that people here are having to talk to you like a child in order to convey anything because in your 48 years you haven’t developed the mental faculties to actually learn. You don’t know how to ask the right questions and that is symptomatic of someone who doesn’t have even the slightest grasp on the topic at hand. Please please please please please go and read some books on thinking, actually learn about how we formulate knowledge and test ideas. Because right now all I see is an old man whose lack of education is stifling him from knowing anything on the topics he’s trying to talk about.

  178. Ichthyic says

    Are you really 48? You have the intellect of a child…

    Indeed, I would have guessed 13 at the most.

    yikes.

  179. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    The consensus on Simple Simon is a teenager. If he’s 48, he has some problems.

  180. simon says

    #175

    you’re gay, right?

    No, i am a normal man, father of two and i have a happy family. Have my own business, wealthy enough.

    how about you, sonny ? did you come from a broken home family, a free sex mom and dad ? a divorced parents ? a drunken dad ?

    you, your friends and your idol, PZM, are fake scientists and fake humanist.
    I think you are just a computer man, dreaming to be a scientist and the “Watchmen” and taking drugs like your hero Carl Sagan.

    i can classify you as a garbage scientist live in the ditch.

  181. Nerd of Redhead, OM says

    Simple Simon the Idiot Lieman, why should we tell you anything. If you have a point, make it. Otherwise you are pointless and a pest. That leads to banning. Why are you afraid to make a point and back it up with real evidence? BAWK

  182. tony says

    Simon.

    It’s OK! Truly! You can come out of the closet. We won’t judge you for being gay, nor for repressing that perfectly normal aspect of your being.

    On the quality and content of your posts, however, you are demonstrating either stupidity, ignorance, or wilful ignorance.

    Stupidity can be managed – we’ll use simple words and simple concepts. Even a child of three can understand basic science and evolution (change happens, cause/effect, etc)

    Ignorance can be managed – we’ll take the time and make the effort to educate. (talkorigins is a great resource)

    Wilful ignorance is simply unmanageable. You have chosen to close your mind. We will therefore heap scorn upon you for your wilfully idiotic positions and shallow apologetics.

    One last comment – please try to use English. It includes all kinds of wonderful constructs to make your commentary grammatically, syntactically, and semantically correct. It is capable of the most wondrous poetry, and the most precise and erudite phrasing.

    Your English is more akin to carving rock with a twig.

    i can classify you as a garbage scientist live in the ditch.

    ???

  183. simon says

    @kel,

    The more people you need to keep a secret, the harder it becomes to do so.

    so your conclusion it’s not a conspiracy, it is true. right ?

    Likewise if someone says that 40 years ago God came down to earth and raised the dead, I’d be sceptical. The fact is that eyewitness accounts are anecdotal evidence, they are the weakest form of evidence.

    why do you think they are fake ? because it happened 2000years ago ? anything happened and written before your existence are fake ?

    Your complete lack of insight into how science and history works is incredibly disturbing considering you are 48 years old.

    i dont think so, son. I think your animal behavior and drugs have closed your heart. You are blind even though you see.
    Investigate how your animal behavior came from, did it evolve from your parents behavior ? Are you a mother’s boy ? or your relative molested you ?

  184. says

    so your conclusion it’s not a conspiracy, it is true. right?

    My conclusion that we landed on the moon comes from the evidence for such an event. It’s a very well documented historical event.

    why do you think they are fake ? because it happened 2000years ago ? anything happened and written before your existence are fake ?no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! How can you be so fucking thick? The stories contained in are physical impossibilities, they are extraordinary claims but do not have extraordinary evidence to back it up. That’s my argument, it’s not that it’s fake or it happened outside my lifetime; it’s that the events contained within are so implausible that the absence of any confirming evidence suggests that it’s wrong.

    In our modern time we have a comparable phenomenon – UFO abductions. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts confirming the events took place. People sighting UFOs all the time, abduction stories springing up left-right and centre. Curiously though we don’t have anything beyond the anecdotal to confirm such stories. For all the telescopes pointing into the sky, plenty of eyewitnesses see UFOs but not a single piece of data is captured. UFO artefacts, or alien sperm (these stories seem big on hybridisation – something which would be physically impossible).

    But there is another way to explain this. Human memory is faulty, it adds details that aren’t there. False memories can be implanted, and there’s always a means to replicate such events – through brain manipulation. So what is more likely, that even though all empirical means of alien contact are absent that these people were really abducted – or that they experienced hallucinations and / or were victims of many different ways of manipulating memory? I’d go for the latter, just as I would when all we have is anecdotal accounts for the miracles of Jesus. The physical laws are violated and we take the word of people who didn’t see it, but heard about it decades later… and at a time when pagan mangods had exactly the same miracles ascribed to them? Use your brain Simon.

    Go pick up a copy of Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World and actually read about how to think critically.

    You are still falling into that trap of asking the wrong questions. No matter what I say, you won’t be able to understand what I mean because you have no idea where I’m coming from. You have the brain of a child, with no ability to actually see the world through anyone elses’ eyes. And if you are going to argue against a position, it’s so important you understand what that position is. You’ve been around the sun 48 times now, how is it that you’ve not grasped that simple notion?

  185. says

    Blockquote fail!

    why do you think they are fake ? because it happened 2000years ago ? anything happened and written before your existence are fake ?

    no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! How can you be so fucking thick? The stories contained in are physical impossibilities, they are extraordinary claims but do not have extraordinary evidence to back it up. That’s my argument, it’s not that it’s fake or it happened outside my lifetime; it’s that the events contained within are so implausible that the absence of any confirming evidence suggests that it’s wrong.

    In our modern time we have a comparable phenomenon – UFO abductions. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts confirming the events took place. People sighting UFOs all the time, abduction stories springing up left-right and centre. Curiously though we don’t have anything beyond the anecdotal to confirm such stories. For all the telescopes pointing into the sky, plenty of eyewitnesses see UFOs but not a single piece of data is captured. UFO artefacts, or alien sperm (these stories seem big on hybridisation – something which would be physically impossible).

    But there is another way to explain this. Human memory is faulty, it adds details that aren’t there. False memories can be implanted, and there’s always a means to replicate such events – through brain manipulation. So what is more likely, that even though all empirical means of alien contact are absent that these people were really abducted – or that they experienced hallucinations and / or were victims of many different ways of manipulating memory? I’d go for the latter, just as I would when all we have is anecdotal accounts for the miracles of Jesus. The physical laws are violated and we take the word of people who didn’t see it, but heard about it decades later… and at a time when pagan mangods had exactly the same miracles ascribed to them? Use your brain Simon.

    Go pick up a copy of Carl Sagan’s The Demon-Haunted World and actually read about how to think critically.

    You are still falling into that trap of asking the wrong questions. No matter what I say, you won’t be able to understand what I mean because you have no idea where I’m coming from. You have the brain of a child, with no ability to actually see the world through anyone elses’ eyes. And if you are going to argue against a position, it’s so important you understand what that position is. You’ve been around the sun 48 times now, how is it that you’ve not grasped that simple notion?

  186. simon says

    My conclusion that we landed on the moon comes from the evidence for such an event. It’s a very well documented historical event.

    do you have your DNA test well documented ?

    Human memory is faulty, it adds details that aren’t there. False memories can be implanted, and there’s always a means to replicate such events – through brain manipulation.

    probably your parent’s memory is faulty as well.

    take a drug and have an anal sex tonight, clever boy.

  187. says

    do you have your DNA test well documented ?

    Do I need my DNA test well documented? If it were a matter of life and death where I needed certainty of my parents lineage (such as to be a donor to an ailing parent) then I’d get one. But for the most part having absolute knowledge is irrelevant. Even if my parents aren’t who they say they are, and my features happen to be coincidences, and my birth certificate is lying, and my parents long after I’ve grown up maintain that lie – it doesn’t matter so much. If I needed to prove it, I could and would take that risk.

    Now for some people, it turns out taking this risk fails. Some people are illegitimately spawned, some are adopted, and they live their lives oblivious to that fact. I could very well be one of those, so while I can give good arguments for why my parents are who they say they are, I can’t be absolutely certain without taking that test. But it’s hardly an extraordinary claim, it’s not like I’m claiming my mother gave birth to me while on Mars or my father is a 3 headed dragon. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Millions of children are born each day to legitimate parents, my birth is hardly an extraordinary occurrence.

  188. tony says

    take a drug and have an anal sex tonight, clever boy.

    Even if this was proper english it would make no sense!

    how the fuck would anyone have ‘an’ anal sex?

    Simon is truly a fuckwit. A 48 year old fuckwit. A 48 year old fuckwit who is unable to correctly structure a sentence.

    Why don’t you go back and try to pass third grade. I hear they have cookies on Fridays!

  189. simon says

    I could very well be one of those, so while I can give good arguments for why my parents are who they say they are,I can’t be absolutely certain without taking that test

    you don’t trust anybody except evolution, your belief.

  190. says

    you don’t trust anybody except evolution, your belief.

    Is there some medication that your doctor perscribed? I trust people. But even those I trust I’m not going to take incredulous stories at face value. My mother says that on the local beach see saw dolphins in the water – I’d trust such a tale. My mother says that John Edward was communicating with her deceased uncle, I find that really hard to believe. Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    Think of the difference between “I flipped a coin and it came up heads” and “I flipped a coin 100 times and it came up heads every time” Do you honestly not see a difference between said events? A 1 in 2 event versus a 1 in 2100 event?

  191. simon says

    I trust people. But even those I trust I’m not going to take incredulous stories at face value. My mother says that on the local beach see saw dolphins in the water – I’d trust such a tale. My mother says that John Edward was communicating with her deceased uncle, I find that really hard to believe. Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    and you trust human came from ape because the bone and skull are extraordinary evidence.

    How do you justify the evidence is extraordinary ? is there any standard ?

  192. says

    Lieman,

    How do you justify the evidence is extraordinary ? is there any standard ?

    Yes. Evolution has been proven to be an accurate explanation of the diversity of life on earth, while creationism/ ID has yet to make one, single verifiable claim.

    So okay, forget the extraordinary part – do you have any evidence for your god? Or any evidence at all that disproves evolution? (Psst…here’s a hint – scientists haven’t found any in over 150 years of trying, so neither have you.)

  194. clinteas says

    Gee,
    tonight I have already agreed with John Kwok and looked approvingly over a post by Alan Kellogg….

    Thank god there’s Simon……
    Facilis,to the rescue !!

  195. says

    How do you justify the evidence is extraordinary?

    Do you need me to spell this out to you? Are you really 48, or an 8 year old posing as an old man?

  196. simon says

    Do you need me to spell this out to you? Are you really 48, or an 8 year old posing as an old man?

    come on, show us the standard, boy. ASTM, JIS, ISO or MOS* ?

    *Myers Own Standard

    you don’t believe evolution, do you ?

  197. says

    I’ll give you a hint. Walking to the beach – not extraordinary; walking on water – extraordinary. Drinking a fermenting wine – not extraordinary; turning water into wine – extraordinary. Waking up a slumbering person – not extraordinary; waking the dead – extraordinary. Dying – not extraordinary. Cheating death – extraordinary.

  199. Rey Fox says

    Once again, the summary:

    Fossils, genomes, observation of differing allelic frequencies in populations in real time: not evidence.

    Moldy old fairy tale book of “eyewitness” fairy tales: evidence!

    Yeah, let’s get a better class of trolls in here.

  200. simon says

    raising from death – the most extraordinary

    therefore the disciples believed !
    Paul said : And if Christ be not risen again, your faith is vain. And he was willing to die because he met Him. Other disciples also died for their faith.

    The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2000 years, it is extraordinary !
    Today no one talk about the Da Vinci Code. It lasted only a year because it was fiction and cheating.

    It has happened, boy. If you were there, you would be one of the disciples and your modern analysis and tools would be useless.

  201. says

    The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2000 years

    Hinduism has survived for 6000 years… Aboriginal dreamtime for nearly 40,000 years.

    It has happened, boy.

    What evidence do you have support that claim?

  202. simon says

    Hinduism has survived for 6000 years… Aboriginal dreamtime for nearly 40,000 years.

    diminished and only in india and australia, and practiced by the native.

    What evidence do you have support that claim?

    what kind of standard do you have ?

    back to #123, “….sometime before 20 BC…..sometime after 39 AD” . Do you believe Herod Antipas was exist around that years ? WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE ?

  203. says

    This is going round in circles. I’ve explained that eyewitness testament is insufficient for claims of the extraordinary nature, so what do you have? We have evidenec that Herod Antipas existed, but that’s not to say that Herod fought three-headed dragons or travelled through the black hole and the centre of the galaxy. Someone existing != someone performing the impossible.

  205. simon says

    We believe Jesus existed not because of the extraordinary performance. It think i already linked you the evidence in #141. Historically, Jesus existed.

    You believe Herod Antipas existed because of history book, don’t you ?

    you made the circle by relating it to the extraordinary performance !

  206. says

    A historical Jesus != a biblical Jesus. Even if there was a historical character, it does not mean that any of the miracles performed are any less extraordinary or unaccounted for.

  207. Owlmirror says

    Yawn. Jesus? All his tricks are just made-up stories.

    Criss Angel, on the other hand, walked on water, and it was recorded and everything. He was also cut in two, and resurrected.

    Jesus was weaksauce.

  208. 'Tis Himself says

    Hinduism has survived for 6000 years… Aboriginal dreamtime for nearly 40,000 years.
    diminished and only in india and australia, and practiced by the native.

    Also practiced in Indonesia, Myanmar (Burma), Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Guyana (~35% of the population), United Arab Emirates (particularly Qatar and Bahrain) (~7%), Fiji (~33%), and Trinidad & Tobago (~22%). It’s estimated that there’s about 1.5 million Hindus in the US, a million in the UK, and 348,000 in Canada.

    The Hindus won’t be going away any time soon.

  209. simon says

    A historical Jesus != a biblical Jesus. Even if there was a historical character, it does not mean that any of the miracles performed are any less extraordinary or unaccounted for.

    The Word is waiting for you. He wants you to leave your immoral life and frees you from slavery. His love is infinite.
    Have you ever cried ? Pray son, I will pray for you as well.

    A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. – C. S. Lewis

  210. 'Tis Himself says

    That looks like a signoff. Could Simon be leaving?

    Thank you, Jebus, my non-prayers have been answered. All those hours not spent on my knees and not mumbling inanities have paid off.