A big chunk of Australia is on fire — over 700 homes have been burned, and it’s estimated that over 300 people have been killed. We know the cause: a drought that dried tons of brush to tinder, lightning strikes, and deplorably, apparently a number of arsonists.
Well, that’s what I would say were the causes. But then, I’m one of those materialists. Danny Nalliah, pastor of one of those cheesy evangelical organizations, has a different idea.
CTFM leader, Pastor Danny Nalliah said he would spearhead an effort to provide every assistance to devastated communities, although he was not surprised by the bush fires due to a dream he had last October relating to consequences of the abortion laws passed in Victoria.
He said these bushfires have come as a result of the incendiary abortion laws which decimate life in the womb. Besides providing material assistance, CTFM will commence a seven day prayer and fasting campaign for the nation of Australia tomorrow Wednesday the 11th February.
CTFM has called upon all Australian Bible-believing God-fearing Christians to repent and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ for His mercy and protection over Australia once again.
There’s a simple word for people like Danny Nalliah:
Ghoul.
He sees a catastrophe, pain, and loss of life as an opportunity to proselytize for his idiotic religion. His faith is a parasite that feeds on death and destruction and fear. That’s all he’s got. This is just more of the same from this wretched ghoul: before the fires, he was making similar accusations of blame.
He had previously said drought and the world financial crisis could be partly blamed on human sin.
These people are useless lunatics.
As someone close to the fire’s down here it is beyond deplorable that this is the response. People are suffering, the death toll is rising and it is not over yet. I am ashamed that I share a country with a ‘man’ like this
Wow. I was wondering if PZ would get wind of this idiot’s raving. And it took no more than a few hours… PZ is truly omniscience.
CTFM must stand for Church of The Fucking Morons
So as divine punishment, God sends brushfires, something that happens almost every year in that part of Australia. Not much imagination there.
True, PZ, true. Re my own experience of/take on the fires, see here (I was never in any personal danger but did have the spooky experience of driving right through Victoria in the immediate aftermath):
http://metamagician3000.blogspot.com/2009/02/driving-through-smoke.html
Meanwhile, I spend a certain amount of time defending this nutjob’s freedom of speech. I doubt that he notices or appreciates it, but that’s the way of the world.
I guess comments like this are inevitable. Whenever a natural disaster happens, you can be sure at least one nutter takes the bronze-age anthropomorphising of natural events and does so in the modern age. At least there are some theists who are still true to the invented god of the Jews, unlike those modern ones who know that natural disasters are a culmination of natural factors.
Dreadful. Ghoulish.
Stay safe, clinteas and others in the area.
“He said these bushfires have come as a result of the incendiary abortion laws…”
Ouch, that hurt just reading it
I find it to be abundantly clear that the religious are not concerned with their fellow human beings. They simply want to prattle on about their petty interests and insignificant concerns.
Wait so God is punishing people for murder by … murdering people?
And not even punishing the sinners directly.
At least the material assistance might be of some use.
Isn’t this the same man who had a dream that Peter Costello would one day be Prime Minister of Australia in the fifth term of the Howard Government (which never happened)?
Australian Bible-believing God-fearing Christians to repent and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ for His mercy and protection over Australia once again
Shouldnt it be the Atheists and abortionists who need to repent? And should people really fear god? He has to be the most abusive parent ever.
PZ wrote:
Sometimes, PZ, you have such a gift of Lovecraftian hyperbole that I just want to hug you.
(Only in a Cthulu sort of way, of course. Not in the creepy way.)
Ghoul is the right word for it. What a lecherous prick.
I take my hat off to the volunteer fire fighters, no preaching, just putting it all on the line:
http://philosophicalneuron.blogspot.com/2009/02/cheers-to-great.html
Can you imagine a loon like Pastor Nalliah being involved in any kind of hands-on relief effort to bushfire victims?
“I know you’ve lost your house/property/loved ones and I’m truly sorry…but you do know that God only barbequed the place because he was well pissed off at the state abortion laws. Here, have a goodie bag and one of our pamphlets”.
What a cretin.
I spoke to my stepfather this morning – I only remembered today (after someone on another thread asked if I knew anyone over there) that he has family in country Victoria; turns out they were right in the middle of it. Fortunately, they’re all okay but one relative has lost a house. They were really worried for about 24 hours though.
Oh, and I consider the actions of this woo-addled creep to be reprehensible. What a scumbag.
It’s bad enough for Australia to have to endured such a human toll of life, and now she has to endure a raving religious lunatic who claims that it was divine retribution for wayward citizens. Of course, if he was waylaid on the way to his house of insanity and beaten to a pulp, could he plead that his god was displeased with him? Retribution? Definitely yes, but not of the imaginary kind. Moron.
Nope, the Christians in Australia need to pray twice hard in order to compensate for us.
Religious people have long promoted the belief that if someone in the community does something wrong, everyone will be punished for it. Puritans in America had this idea, which is why you could be punished by death for blasphemy, which included being an atheist.
Sadly, the idea is still being promoted by our society’s dumbest and most superstitious members.
The God of Collateral Damage.
..and why exactly is Gawd punishing North Queensland with monsoonal floods? Must be something behind that as well…..
Wasn’t there talk of a nudist resort in Central Australia- wait for Alice Springs to be decimated by an asteroid.
Gee, this could be fun….
Ben wrote:
Well, yeah. Eye for an eye? All that? Remember? This is not at odds with all-loving god. He just loves you by killing you.
We’re all sinners, being punished directly. For other people’s sins.
But also our own, too, also. /palin
God was providing the water source in order to put out the fire. Unfortunately in his old age he’s getting a bit senile and missed the mark by about 3000 kilometres.
BTW the laws were changed to decriminalise abortion. Terminations were already happening in Victoria, they just weren’t being prosecuted. So God apparently doesn’t give a rat’s arse until someone tells him.
The news accounts I’ve seen today have said that many of the
bush fires were opportunistic arson. I for one think there’s a lead here.
Stupid theists want evidence for the non-existence of their god then here it is.
If there was a god responsible for this then that god could only be a god of hate, a god of pain, a god of misery and spite and terror. Anyone even contemplating the existence of a kind, loving god in this situation is sadly deluded.
As opportunistic and ghoulish as he is, the pastor is right about one thing, the financial crisis is in large part caused by sin: Greed.
Sigh….so many bastards using any tragedy to get people to pay attention to their imaginary friend. What a heartless tosser.
I’m in southern Queensland so I am safely between the waters and the fires. So far I haven’t been directly affected, but I do have friends that have experiences losses in these fires.
PZ, well said as always. Thank you.
Maybe it was all his fault, since it was his “prophetic” dream. Should we blame the arsonists AND the telekinetic fire-starting sorcerer?
You’d think he’d have the decency to at least wait until they’ve finished pulling the dead bodies from the ruins before spouting this nonsense.
What an utter arsehole.
And morons flicking still-burning cigarette butts into the tinder-dry bush.
But almost incredibly, about half the bushfires in Australia are started deliberately.
A comment from the CTFM media release has, “Didnt the Victorian government decriminalise witchcraft a few years ago? I wonder what that careless act will bring to the nation?”
Clearly they believe that their god is a powerless moron that can’t even stop a witch.
These people are really messed up.
“It’s okay now-homeless person who has lost all their worldy possesions. I will pray and fast for you.”
“Thanks, but I’d prefer it if your God didn’t keep burning down my house.”
It irks me that people like Pastor Nalliah exist, let alone are allowed to voice their opinions.
A terrible tragedy and one that Australians won’t soon forget.
Isn’t this the same man who had a dream that Peter Costello would one day be Prime Minister of Australia in the fifth term of the Howard Government (which never happened)?
Actually, God told him so, and it was on the basis of that conversation that Nalliah could “boldly” declare” (in August 2007) that John Howard would be re-elected in November 2007. God told Nalliah to spend “personal time” with (former Prime Minister) Howard and to prepare (former Treasurer) Costello as the future Prime Minister.
Well, God pwned Danny Nalliah. Nalliah, true to the form of the lying hypocritical fundie, subsequently refused to eat humble pie. As did many of his winged monkeys.
The man is a charlatan. His followers are case studies in self-delusion. Theirs is a worldview, as PZ’s post demonstrates, that feeds off human misery and fear.
Ghoul is too kind. There is no way to describe the utter immorality of someone who could use such a massive tragedy to promote their political views. There is no place for people like this in any civilised society.
Fuck, people like this idiot just don’t deserve any oxygen. If the useless pompous evangelising prick wants to do anything real he should jump on a tanker and go direct a hose. Mind you most of the people I know in the RFS, CFA, CFS, SES, and the like would happily toss him into the fire if he showed up where the real work is done.
Like many others I know people affected and my admiration goes out to the fireies involved. I used to think I’d been in some scary situations over the years with my brigade but this one is just horrific in intensity and scale.
I recal Scientologists performed a similar stunt in the aftermath of the 9/11 and V-tech shootings, wherein they tried to get their own “counselors” onsite so they could recruit those too shaken by the events to think rationally.
Then again, what do you expect of cults, which includes that Aussie slimeball who’s trying to cash in on this incident.
Scum, pure and simple.
Pastor Nalliah doesn’t know his Bible. There is not one passage opposing abortion in the Bible. On the other hand, there is this in Psalms 137:9: “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” In other words, kill the little children of people the Israelites didn’t like.
Nalliah is an idiot who hasn’t the slightest clue about the way the world actually works.
Yargh. The execrable Brisbane Times has a ‘blog comments’ section, and it’s worth a look if you like spraying your keyboard with beverage:
http://blogs.brisbanetimes.com.au/yoursay/archives/2009/02/pastor_danny_na.html?from=top5
If they spent their time hooting and masturbating in fierce joy at the Burning of the Heathens they could at least be said to have some intellectual honesty.
It always surprises me that these people believe their god actually watches out for them.
They say that when things are good, god is watching out for them (Or worse, when they are the sole survivors of a catastrophe). When things are bad we’re being punished for sin.
Whenever I ask christians, muslims, JW’s, Mormons etc. if there could ever be a time that if something bad happened it couldn’t be blamed on sin, (and it’s one of my favorite questions) I get crickets. In the end they really have no idea why god is good to them when he is, because he apparently is always justified when he is a complete mass-murdering fuckhead. This of course never leads them to question if their idea of god or the existence of any such being at all, is worthwhile.
I guess god still works in stupid ways.
OK, Australians, you can borrow our God, but please send him back when you’re done.
My thoughts go out to all the victims.
I saw that article this morning. I’m with PZ. The first word I thought of was Ghoul. Closely followed by prick, fuckwit, piece of shit… and more.
I’m lucky enough to live a long way from the fires in Sydney but I grew up in the North East of Victoria so I’m familiar with the areas and people and the danger. I have some relations in some of the fire grounds in the North East and Gippsland but so far no loss of property or injuries. From what I’ve been able to glean from the media there is a distinct possibility that at least one of the houses I grew up in as kid, 20 or so years ago, might have gone.
As a very young kid the closest call we had was when a fire came the down the valley we lived in. Dad threw us in the paddling pool, about a foot deep, because we couldn’t escape but luckily the fire burned around the house. It burned the fence around the house and a couple of sheds. However I can not imagine what these poor buggers in the current bush fires have gone through.
For the Aussies donations can be made through the Red cross here…
https://www.redcross.org.au/Donations/onlineDonations.asp
Since global warming has lately been popular here on Pharyngula, I will bring up that the severe heatwaves and droughts in Australia, which have greatly exaberated fire risks, are consistent with global warming. And there may be a stronger connection. . More on fires and global warming here .
So God murders more than a hundred innocent civilians in the name of defending the unborn.
You mean like making love for virginity?
Despite the massive media beat up, it’s entirely speculative to say that any of the fires were caused by arsonists. 2 out of the 40 or so fires are being investigated for that cause based on the evidence of “We can’t find any other cause for the fires.”
Suggestion of arson in such circumstances provokes a strong emotional response – which is why the media and politicians are talking about it so much – it’s in their interests…
Eloquently said, PZ.
He is a fucking parasite!
Danny Nalliah is a disgusting excuse for a human being. And that’s all I have to say about that.
You know, the thought occurs that since Catch The Fire Ministries has been so kind and decent as to give us a comments section on their blog that we should, oh I don’t know, comment. C’mon, everybody! Let’s go make some friends! [evil grin]
I miles away but have relatives that narrowly escaped (sadly their dogs & cars didn’t) and this lunatic’s comments are just beyond the pale. How freakin’ dare he. How. Freaking. Dare. He.
Lynching’s too good for ’em.
If i wasn’t so blinded with rage I’d be amused that CTFM stands for “Catch The Fire Ministries”
more here
My thoughts exactly! If only I had gotten here sooner…
There’s not enough evidence at the moment to say it was arsonists…
Also, one of the major factors in this tragedy has been left out of the list – i.e. the gusting winds, sometimes in excess of 100km/hr. All those other factors (drought, tinderbox forest, arsonists, cigarette butt flickers, heatwaves) are just par for the course in bushfire season here in Australia… one of the differences with this tragedy is the wind was just SO SO SO fast and strong and there was no time for people to get their sh1t together like they usually do.
I don’t know how much coverage you’re getting over there but it’s so intense here… some silver lining though:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/blood-bank-overwhelmed-by-donors-20090209-82bp.html
http://www.redcross.org.au/vic/news_mediareleases_victorian-bushfires-assistance-090209.htm
My pictorial interpretation of the matter. Hope someone sets fire to his cassock.
(Yeah, I know, cassocks are a Catholic thing. But I liked the sound of that.)
“CTFM will commence a seven day prayer and fasting campaign for the nation of Australia tomorrow Wednesday the 11th February. ”
Maybe the fuckers will starve to death.
I was just coming over here to see if anyone had pointed this out. I actually cried when I read this this morning – what an asshole!
And his fast will be very useful to everyone, I am sure
On behalf of every woman who’s had to make a heartbreaking choice, and everyone who lost someone or something in Victoria this week, I say this: Just fuck off. Nobody benefits from your sickening rants.
They have incendiary abortion laws in Australia? What does that mean exactly? Take the fetus out, but with napalm?
Here’s a question tho’. How come it only happens to Aussies? It’s not like Australia is the most liberal country in the world, certainly not regarding abortion, so how come places like the Netherlands, which is actually below sea-level and on the coast, so would make an excellent target for some Old Testament divine retribution, even for a lazy God, doesn’t get this? They conduct about 30K abortions a year, and have been for over 20 years! Surely if God saw fit to incinerate a couple hundred Aussies for passing legislation, surely most of Europe would be a barren wasteland by now! Why is your God so inconsistent? Is he schizophrenic? Incompetent? Or does he just have a particular Axe to grind with the Aussies, and in which case, why don’t you tell him to go fuck himself?
A shame a week of fasting, while certainly leading to short-term malnutrition, isn’t actually enough for them to starve to death. Try 3 months of fasting you pussies! Where’s your Jihad Envy when we really need it?
@AussieAndrea
Why do I get the feeling that Nalliah is part of a very small minority of communities that’s desparate to use ANY incident just to drum up publicity for their church?
That is, in light of the outpouring of support you’ve mentioned.
The man is an Ignoranus – stupid and an asshole!
Well there goes my fucking serenity. I hate to think what I would do if anyone said this in front of me.
That man is, and frankly has always been, a piece of shit. I’m actually not sure why the media keeps printing any garbage he comes up with and if it wasn’t so godddamed tragic he’d be laughable.
I feel really helpless at the moment, so far from home, but my thoughts are with my fellow Aussies. Clinteas, I know you’re working with it all at the moment so stay strong and take care of yourself.
What makes me proud to be Australian is the resilience and stoicism of the people affected that will shine through when all this horror is over.
That’s not what the Victorian Police Commissioner is reported as saying:
Other reports are saying that police believe they are close to catching people alleged to have started two of the fires.
This is the guy who a few years ago, after another long dry spell in Victoria, held a much publicised Pray For Rain session. This was announced shortly after the weather bureau had forecast there was a very good chance of heavy falls within the week. Heavy falls did eventuate and no prizes for guessing who claimed the credit.
We moved from Victoria in October last year partly because of the water shortages. We’re now in Far North Queensland and have had over 1,400mms of rain since the first of January. Out of the frying pan into the spa.
Rabble like this should just be ignored,of course the first impulse is for much worse than ignoring..
I worked during the worst night(Friday),my Hospital is about 20km away from one of the largest fires(Bunyip),we had lots of smoke inhalation and took overspill from the major Trauma centre that was closed for anything other than burns,it was pretty horrific.
Add to that lots of power outages,heat strokes…
My house and that of friends are safe atm,one friend of the ex lost hers up in Kinglake.
Of course it will never occur to such people that the ultimate reason for the drought and the fires is exactly the opposite of what they claim – i.e it is the lack of enough abortions and the idiotic concept of the “sanctity of human life”, even when there is no actual human involved, the overpopulation that followed from all that, which in turn caused the climate change, which is behind the drought (which isn’t really a drought anymore but the new normal state of things), which is the reason for the fires.
They will never be able to connect so many things in a chain of causal relationships…
@24 Wowbagger
To this nutter (Pastor Danny Nalliah) it is a kind and loving god. In its mind its god is kindly killing people to prove the nutter is right, because god loves him and his beliefs. Don’t you see this?!?!?! Are you blind to gods love?
I can’t help but imagine this loser at life sitting somewhere in the dark doing a Nelson laugh and feeling sanctimonious.
Fortunately, he’s being utterly reviled for his disgusting comments. I suspect (and hope) that the effect will ultimately be to diminish what little respect Australians have for him. We’re a country in deep shock and grief, and his exploitation of our despair is unforgivable.
I cannot say that I am surprised by words of this pastor. I would say it is both typical and predictable. But sadly, still painful when you are on the receiving end. How often have we sat through funerals and have the pastor leading the services implore the bereaved to accept Jesus.
For me, the worst case was about a decade ago. I had a twenty one year old cousin die because of a self inflicted gun wound. A baptist preacher who barely knew my cousin spoke up. He had almost nothing to say about him. Instead, we were informed that life was short and fragile and we needed to be saved. I sat there, squeezing my hands into fists and trying not to scream. That bastard took the tragedy of my young cousin’s like coming to an end and gave a message I can hear on any random street corner.
Getting their grubby hands on tragedy is what people like that preacher and Danny Nalliah do. It is predictable and it is painful when you are on the receiving end. My condolences to the victims and survivors in Australia.
I just went through the fires, with my property within range of an ember storm because of 100K winds. I was ready to fight it or, if an ember storm did hit, grab my animals and flee. A mate was not so lucky, losing her house and all her possessions.
I cannot put into words my anger at this fuckwit’s statements. Anyone who knows me can attest that speechless is not my natural condition.
I invite him to step into the boxing ring with me, have a meeting in a dark alley, or anything else of his choosing. I would quite gleely tear this prick’s head off and shit down his throat for making such illogical, insensible and obscenely insensitive comments!!!
Some boggling posts on the “Catch the Fire” blog (oh the irony of that name), including this gem:
“There will always be a tendency in those who don’t know His love to misinterpret statements such as Pastor Danny made. ”
Yer reckon? I think those of us who “don’t know His (sic) love have a pretty fair idea of the intent.
He had previously said drought and the world financial crisis could be partly blamed on human sin.
Well, he did get one out of two correct. Avarice had a whole lot to do with #2. But then, it was easy to make that connection.
Well, as someone who is rotating down there again Thursday I have the following to say to Danny-boy.
Note: Some strongish language follows….apologies but it’s the only way to express my feelings on this vermin.
Nalliah, you are not worthy to lick the shit of the boots of the SES, CFA, or any of the agencies and volunteers actually doing somthing about the fires. If you showed you face at the moment, there would be a line of people eagerly waiting to belt your empty skull with a shovel.
Oh, you are praying and fasting?
Well, whoopty-fucking-do!
How about you take you hand off your dick for once, pick up a shovel, rake or water pack and get your precious arse up there like thousands of others have. And if you can’t do that because you are so gutless, why not help out the GP’s in the burn units, the cops having to round up and identify the burnt remains of people, caterers feeding the crews and survivors, or offering up your house to help out those who don’t have one anymore.
Oh wait, you define ‘help’ as talking telepathically to invisible friends? Haven’t got the spine to put your money or life on the line have you?
You are a pathetic shitbag – the 80 year old driving around on her electric go-kart with water bottles on Saturday had more guts than you ever could imagine. And as for the people who braved flames to rescue their families or neighbours are so far above you, you rate less than a fetid maggot squirming on the sole of their boots.
Nalliah, you are a skidmark on the bedsheet of humanity and even ‘ghoul’ doesnt adequaetly describe you. Go back and cower in your bible thumping LARP group, because once people have finished working on solving real problems, you wont be able to show your gloating shit faced grin in public for the rest of your worthless existance. You had better hope your invisible telepathic friend exists because no one else will give you the time of day.
*sigh*
Sorry for the rant. Feel better now.
I just read his defence of his actions, citing the bible and preaching that he had a responsibility to tell the truth. What a maroon, it’s not that his comments were insensitive, but that they were opportunistic at a time of grief.
The mental health laws need tweaking a tad…
Sometimes the greater good demands righteous incarceration incommunicado and preferably solitary confinement…for ever and ever ..Amen!
LC, no need to apologize. And thank you for your rant. You could not be right that the skidmark would be more useful if he got off his knees and picked up a shovel.
I’m pretty happy the local press ran it, to be honest. As appalling and offensive as his comments are, the more these people show their true colours in public the happier I am.
The influence of this scumbag and his Assembly of God mates has been gradually been creeping up in this country over the last ten year, much to my disgust.
A good, old fashioned, public hounding might send them back to their own self created dark ages for a bit.
A big chunk of Australia is on fire — over 700 homes have been burned, and it’s estimated that over 300 people have been killed. We know the cause: a drought that dried tons of brush to tinder, lightning strikes, and deplorably, apparently a number of arsonists.
I know exactly what was coming after this introduction. These fundamentalists are getting very predictable; they need a new mojo. Maybe something like “it happened because Satan tricked God” or “God had Mexican food and farted all over Australia by accident.” Now, that would be a surprise!
Here’s the “contacts” link on his appalling website:
http://catchthefire.com.au/blog/contact-us/
Why don’t we all go there and tell him what we think of him?
Last night after solemn contemplation of the Australian wild fire I fell asleep and experienced a momentous vision in which God said unto me: “Demand that the members of CTFM send all their wealth to you for safekeeping least it causes them to sin. Suggest to the faithful that they relieve their frustrations by ‘saddlebacking’ with their partners or any random mammal.” I replied: “Is that everything Lord?”, she said:”Verily, pickup a gallon of milk on the way home and tell Danny Nalliah to STFU.”
those two words go sooooooooo well together :)
Boston.com has a selection of pictures of the fire here: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/bushfires_in_victoria_australi.html
As for Danny Nalliah – Well, I don’t know what I can say that hasn’t already been said…
Fucking moronic shithead arsehole waste of oxygen.
To send real help, go here –
https://www.redcross.org.au/Donations/onlineDonations.asp
(Mentioned already but more won’t hurt.)
“God had Mexican food and farted all over Australia by accident.”
You’d think the “El Diablo” hot sauce couldn’t get any more obvious as one of the devil’s ploys…
Time for human sacrifices again!
Drop the asshole into the burning inferno together with his congregation, and see if their gawd will look after them.
A win-win situation as in–unlikely–the fire goes out, or–likely–it rids us of the fuckwits.
BTW, saw BHO sent his prayers. WTF for? Fire trucks or – planes are what is needed, – a bloody prayer never extinguished any fire.
Danny Nalliah is a headline chaser. “See that headline? There’s the proof of what I say.” Same as Falwell blaming 9/11 on pagans and gays.
Shameless.
Why are all these religulite asswipes so damned nasty? Not a shred of empathy or human compassion.
They should be vacuum-dehydrated, the recovered water sent to help put out the fires, and the rest used as fertiliser ( well, they are full of shit)
It’s the only way any good will come out of them.
Gawd is destroying people because someone had an abortion.
Gawd is love.
Gawd is destroying people’s homes because someone had an abortion.
Gawd is love.
Gawd is killing innocent animals because someone had an abortion.
Gawd is love.
Gawd is burning thousands of acres of trees because someone is gay.
Gawd is love.
Gawd destroyed your entire town because your kid is gay.
Gawd is love.
Send donations to my church because gawd loves you.
I don’t normally condone violence, but this foul specimen needs to be lion fodder.
Don’t hate people like this. Feel sorry for them. It seems that they are so delusional that they are grasping for divine straws when it comes to explaining things they can’t understand and wrap their minds around. Psychotic? Probably.
This is just sad.
When someone responds to a perceived injustice by indiscriminately killing large numbers of men, women and children, we call it terrorism and regard it as a despicable act. What kind of sick bastard worships a terrorist god, and applauds his acts of terrorism?
Better late than never.
clinteas, I sincerely hope that you and your friends make it out of this okay. That, and I’m happy to see that we’ve got selfless folks like you here who are willing to lend a hand when disaster strikes.
Stay safe.
Wowbagger @ #14
No, you see? He’s a loving god! He loves Eucalyptus trees more than those pesky humans in their houses and such! He’s sewing life to a whole new forrest!
Ass of a way of doing it, if he was so powerful he should just change the biology of the Eucalypt.
Note: For those who don’t know, the Eucalpytus tree has evolved to aggressively use fire to it’s advantage, the Eucalyptus oil is basically explosive and everything about the tree is made for catching fire. The seeds require a high intensity fire to crack open and germinate, and a bunch of other stuff.
While I sympathise with those who’ve lost their homes and family members and the such, people really need to be more careful as to where they build their homes, and also they need to follow the advice of firefighters, losing your home is nothing in comparison to losing your life, I don’t care how old you are or how difficult it would be to move yourselves, it’s better to survive to build again, then die trying to defend your home.
Subject for debate: Will we ever find an absolute zero of intelligence?
Right. Blame the victim.
Jake:
and also they need to follow the advice of firefighters, losing your home is nothing in comparison to losing your life, With respect, that’s simplistic bullshit. People have been told ad-nauseum that it’s up to them whether they stay or flee. They’re told that if they decide to stay, they should have a plan to defend their homes. So many people planned to stay and watch, prepared with a few hoses and buckets. The fire moved so fast and with such ferocity that when people realized it was time to flee, it was too late. That’s why so many were found dead in cars, or out in the open. There was no time for firefighters to communicate a message to flee as the firefighters were trying to stay alive themselves. You could make a case that it was wrong headed to want to defend your home, but it was what people have been told is their choice for ages by the government. There’ll be a royal commission into this to hopefully sort out a better policy, but you can’t blame people for not leaving when they had no idea that they needed to leave.
Now that rain showers seems to finally come to Australia (according to the forecast), I guess that god have desided that it’s okay to be gay. Ted Haggard must be EXCITED!
One of the things I find most horrifying about this preacher’s nonsense is the idea that nations (as opposed to individuals) can commit sins, and that all the people of a nation deserve to be punished for the sins of their compatriots.
Human beings are individual moral agents. We are not defined by our race, our class, our community or our nationality; nor are any of us morally responsible for what other people do. To punish Australia as a whole for the decisions taken by its lawmakers would be an act of barbarism, and a God who would do that is not worthy of any sane person’s worship.
There’s a lot of this kind of nationalism and collective punishment in the Old Testament (the slaughter of the Midianites, the stoning to death of a whole family for the father’s theft from the Ark of the Covenant, etc. etc.). But what about where God told Abraham that Sodom would not be destroyed if there were even ten righteous men living there? Pastor Nalliah doesn’t know the scriptures of his own religion.
If there is a God, he’s more likely to be the deistic kind of God – the impersonal creator of the universe. The idea of an interventionist and just God who rewards and punishes in this life is a clear nonsense; why are innocent kids born all the time with horrible congenital disabilities? Why do good people, as well as bad, die in natural disasters and epidemics? If there is a God who is so capricious as to inflict suffering on people at random, I wouldn’t want to worship him anyway.
I wish Christianity were true. But I’ve come to the realisation that it probably isn’t.
Part of the problem is that for some bizarre reason people cannot equate “densely packed large nearby trees” to “deadly risk”. In November 2002 I was in Canberra and had a long argument with a person at the Mt. Stromlo Observatory. I was asking why nothing was being done about the trees which were obviously threatening the entire observatory site. I got such lame excuses as “there hasn’t been a bush fire here in decades” and “the council (municipal government) will never issue a permit”. “So,” I said, “you’d prefer that the observatory burn down because a pack of mongoloid idiots tells you that you can’t cut down trees?” Two months later there wasn’t much left of the observatory.
I often tell people not to buy into any nonsense that they’re somehow doing the environment some good by not whacking out a huge fire break (I recommend about 200 yards wide). Fighting to save property and lives would be tough enough with such a large firebreak, but in Australia it’s quite common to have the forest coming right up to the doorstep – and in those conditions there is absolutely nothing to do but run away as soon as a fire alarm is raised.
Putting things in perspective, if those communities who were victim to these fires had adequate firebreaks we’re talking about a few thousand hectares (a hectare is 100×100 meters, which is slightly larger than 100×100 yards) of trees cleared as opposed to about 30,000 hectares cleared by a typical ‘small’ forest fire. In the end any bizarre notions of protecting trees to do the environment some good results in no trees saved and a horrific tragedy for people. In the news reports, one fire had already razed over 90,000 hectares – that is roughly the equivalent of 50% of Australia’s anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions for an entire year.
It always amazed me over the years how news reporters would always tell the story of “fighting forest fires” as if all the water-bombing aircraft and engines on the ground actually do much good; I always thought “anyone who’s ever fought a fire would know that’s a lie”. There is some hope yet; before this latest rash of fires a number of senior firefighters had been on television and essentially saying that their efforts in such situations really have a minimal effect. If they’re lucky they can save a few houses and save a few people, but for the most part all they can do is watch things burn; ultimately it is a change in the weather which puts the fire out. Once temperatures drop substantially, these fires burn out in a matter of hours and then the fire crews do become very effective and putting an end to the blaze. For non-believers who share the fantasy that forest fires can be brought under control, calculate the size of the fire front, the amount of energy released, the rate of propagation of the front, and the rate of delivery of water by all the people involved in the operation; like it or not, there’s no stopping a forest fire.
You’re right, Brian @91. This fire is distinguished from previous fires here because of the extreme heat, extreme winds and extremely low humidity. (Basically, all the things that the south-east of Australia is predicted to have increasingly as a result of climate change.) While the rule of “stay and fight if you’re physically and emotionally capable of it” might have been applicable in previous bushfires, it might well be that it no longer the best advice. When thermal radiation is such that you essentially will die from the heat, when the oxygen is sucked out of the atmosphere with furious speed so that your generators no longer work, and when every tiny crack in your house lets in a maelstrom of burning embers, setting each room alight, things have clearly changed.
It certainly isn’t the fault of those who tried to follow the traditional advice, saw it was futile and then died trying to escape.
My dads in the SES and is part of the air observer core as was asked to go down to this immediately but refused suprisingly, hes been overworked lately with emergencies (hes co-ordinated tons of relief efforts and helped last time there were fires in Vic). Hes told me of what its like at times, during the Sydney fires i was going to go with im to see the fire and help protect my uncles home but mum refused, im not sure if it was a good or bad thing as he said the power is unimaginable, the fire truck he was with was 30 metres from the fire….then a column of flame consumed it within 1 second and they had to put it out and in the short space of time its mirrors melted.
My heart goes out to those suffering and my sincerly someone puts foot to arse with the preacher.
#2 PZ isn’t omniscient, he just has lots of followers in Aus that keep him up-to-date ;)
#75 no point trying to leave comments, the CTFM site is heavily moderated. I suggest people write letters to the newspapers, particularly the smh.com.au that ran the CTFM media release.
Somewhat ironic that they are called Catch The FIRE Ministry
Some biographical details from wikipedia:
Nalliah was born in Colombo, Sri Lanka. He was raised in a strongly religious family, and rose through the church ranks from youth leader through to becoming a pastor. He married in 1987, and his two children were born soon after. He continued to preach in the more remote regions of Sri Lanka until 1995, when he and his wife moved to Saudi Arabia. He spent two years preaching Christianity and attempting to circumvent the official ban on the religion in the Muslim state. However, in 1997, he decided to move to Australia and found his own evangelical organisation.
Moggie @86, that is perfectly and pithily expressed. You should write a letter to the Sydney Morning Herald saying exactly that.
I can’t stand when religious crap gets dragged out after a disaster like this. There is always the odd survivor who claims they are still alive because ‘someone up there must have been watching over them’ – I always think that is such a terrible thing to say – it implies that those who were not so lucky had it coming, god wasn’t watching over them, presumably because they were bad people. bullshit.
why would such a loving, caring, all powerful god watch over some people whilst allowing small children to die? It really makes me mad when i hear that.
As this story is now also the casuse of great outrage on fark.com, I’d like to add a couple of that site’s favourite expressions to the mix:
“Asshat” and “DIAF, douchebag”
Not that I condone that kind of thing.
I find it interesting that The Age (the Victorian stable mate of the Sydney Morning Herald) hasn’t published Nalliah’s comments, despite the fact that he’s based there and Victoria is where the fires are happening.
Perhaps the editors fear that the response from the locals would be just a touch too vehement….
You know, as bad as he is, he may be right about that Human sin thing. Global warming & all that.
#103: Do not feed the troll
Get that person out of here, using such a tragedy to fuel his religious lies.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows there is drought and large fires in Australia’s future. It’s NORMAL WEATHER for here. It’s just been particularly bad in the 200 year record of the place we have…where every 10 years something like THIS happens.
At least none of the Australian papers, nor the Aussie news sites are mentioning this. They acknowledge we need to help the survivors and focus on the fact it was an arsonist who caused this…not a bill that failed LAST YEAR.
(Maybe the fires are to punish us for allowing the pope to visit last year? He was in those areas)
– Weavers of Canberra and Tasmania
– Australian Environmental history student.
Brian English @ #91
Absolutely true. All I really had to go off in some cases is what the news websites had to offer, and I recall reading the other day that it claimed that after a few neighbourhoods were warned to evacuate, some stayed and died.
Yes, the major problem with something like this is the unimaginable speed at which the flames spread, any loss of life is loathsome, especially since it was human hands who started these blazes. However unless the phone lines and radios are down, the DSE and CFA tend to do a pretty good job of alerting people in the affected areas as to where the fires are going to be burning through soon enough. Personally if I were out that way, I’d be sitting at the alerts page and hitting F5 every few minutes, have everything already ready and such.
Oh and MadScientist is spot on. Most fires, especially large forest fires like this one, are not fought with water, but with fire and bulldozers. This is partially what I was banging on about in my post that communities such as these need to be prepared for eventualities like this, but they don’t ever prepare. They like the beauty of the trees, the local councils won’t do anything, there are a multitude of problems that it seems no one wants to deal with.
Quote:
He had previously said drought and the world financial crisis could be partly blamed on human sin.
The funny thing is.. he has a point there, but not the one he was trying to make. Yes.. the financial crisis is caused by greed.. and greed is percieved as one of the sins.
It’s not caused by god wanting to punish humanity for their greed.. it’s caused by people being too greedy and messing up the financial system.
Am I the only one who thinks that the phrase ‘the incendiary abortion laws which decimate life in the womb’ doesn’t actually mean anything?
Actually, there’s plenty in the precedent in the Old Testament for the deity starring in that windy story to go and inflict much deserved punishment for someone else’s sins on innocent third parties.
It should be pointed out that even if said deity suddenly revealed themselves to exist and declared that the Victorian bushfires WERE divine punishment for the institution of certain worldly laws, that such a deity would probably not be particularly worthy of admiration.
Fuck this lunatic. And FUCK his prayer & fasting vigil. Fires aren’t something to use as leverage or as background for some pissweak publicity stunt. My dad’s family lost everything on Black Sunday in ’55. We were lucky to keep our house on Ash Wednesday in ’83 and again in 1986. This Nalliah bastard reeks of oblivious self-satisfaction and undeserved smugness. Not to mention ghoulish opportunism.
So, here’s a suggestion, Nalliah, you waste of oxygen, you stunted little caricature of humanity you pious little cunt: if you really want to help instead of just making yourself look good to your flock of fuckwits, get off your knees and DO SOMETHING. The fires were an act of God? it’s actually looking more like arson – an act of human. I do not take people who set fires lightly, nor will I tolerate any self-proclaimed god-felcher making such reprehensible comments in their wake. Equally, if the god did exist who would choose to punish the innocent & vulnerable in such a way, I’d be chucking that fucker a big wet brown-eye right now.
Nalliah, the gutless little reptile, is dead lucky noone’s publicised his comments down here. He’d be second on everyone’s List, just underneath whoever set these things off.
/rant
Aussies: you probably all know already but please call 1800 811 700 to donate to the Red Cross Victorian Bushfire Appeal – an organisation well-known for actually helping people in practical, meaningful ways. Hell, you might even get me on the phone as I’m working in the call centre – I promise I’m in a better mood at work! We’ve been inundated so far and it’s been truly amazing – we’ve raised over 30 million bucks since the weekend and it’s just going to skyrocket. PZ, you’ve got a bunch of Aussie readers, so please do us a favour and promote the appeal.
You can also hit http://www.redcross.org.au for an online donation or for more info.
Cheers
H
I heard the Christian guest houses in Marysville were no more fortunate than the other punters in the town. God has been pretty indiscriminate.
Of course rants like this are probably all it takes to push some poor luny over the edge and go light some fires in the name of god.
I’m sorry but this is personal for me, my parents live in Healesville, my nephew in Narbethong and my brother is bunkered down near Alexandra. Thankfully so far no family tragedy but this disaster ain’t over yet.
It might also …if not interesting then informative…to be aware of the slime that actually love to bits that type of rhetoric…
He aimed the comment at an audience ..these poisonous little scuttling cockroaches always have an audience in mind to impress…it would be revealing to learn if any of the nodding rats having received their cheap thrill of a vengeful god in action actually got involved in helping out in a practical sense?
One would presume not…best not mess with god’s will methinks!..otherwise they would not be true Christians!
And where are the sensible leaders of religion not just in Australia but globally…nothing to say…no points to raise… no mild rebuke for an over eager ju ju man…obviously not…
Mind you …’sensible’ and ‘religion’ in the same sentence expresses more hope then possibility…useless tossers the lot of them…and more so the brain dead fucktards that follow them!
First of all i want to say to the australians to be strong, i also knows what is loosing a loved one in a fire (my great grandfather) and with the help of all better times will came.
Abotu this pastor, Danny Nalliah, there arent any mental institutions to treat this mad man?
Is disgusting how some “people” want to thrive with catastrophes that put upside down lifes of human beings.
*111
‘God has been pretty indiscriminate.’
“Kill ’em all..let god sort them out!”
Lovely sentiment…Lovely Christians…Lovely religion…god is love…apparently!
Thanks PZ, for helping shine the laser-designator of reason on this douche-bag. I’m disappointed that the southern state papers (online) haven’t picked up the story – I’d hope to see the public rage slam this idiot down.
I’m well away from the fires, but a couple of the guys at work had close calls, and a teacher at my daughters school lost a family member – so the effects are reaching all across the city.
Right. Because if they’d kept those evil abortion laws at bay, the dry thicket in the hot weather would have been as flammable as wet newspaper, and wouldn’t light now matter how much the arsonists tried.
These people make me sick.
People like this idiot crop up all the time – sucking joy from other peoples misery.
More seriously, though – the Victorian & South Australian fires are largely a result of poor land management (again). When they do an inquiry, they’ll get the same answer that they got for the Canberra fires a couple of years ago – we do too little back burning and other fuel removal activities, and just enough fire prevention to prevent it happening naturally. See – we should get bush fires through every year or two those areas that keep the fuel levels low enough that the forests don’t burn down. We’ve been stopping those, due to the damage to property. So the fuel builds up, and bam – mega fire.
Same thing happened in California last year, and in Montana a few years ago, all for the same reasons. We (humans) just seem to be bad at land management.
(All that said, the human cost of this disaster is very high, and I’ve donated cash and will be donating blood to help out)
But still male, of course. ‘Cause that’s at all ridiculous. Let it go.
#58: Because Costello (the previous federal treasurer) sucked up to him for the nutbag evanglilist xtian vote.
#51: Ah, Bat, dahling, we must stop meetink like this.
/blogged. click name.
#117: Actually, as far as I know, there has been backburning and cutting-back in Victoria and NSW in the wake of the Canberra fires: I think the sheer ferocity of this cluster has caught everyone by surprise. One the fire gets into the canopy that’s pretty much that.
SC: But still male, of course. ‘Cause that’s at all ridiculous. Let it go.
I don’t really think human concepts of gender could have any application to the deistic impersonal conception of God; the term “he” is just used for convenience and because of cultural tradition. But I imagine some deists probably use other pronouns. It doesn’t really matter, IMO.
Whenever there is a natural disaster, these creeps come out of the woodwork.
1. When hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, they were there. God was punishing NoLa because of X,Y,Z. Ironically, the hurricane center missed the city and hit the Mississippi coast head on, sparing the French quarter. From which I learned that god likes jazz, zydeco, and Cajun cooking and hates fundie xians.
2. After the WTC 9/11 event, we heard that it was all our fault because of abortion and the gays.
California has the same problem as Australia now. Wildfire season used to be in the fall with the Santa Anna winds. Now it is all year around.
I should also point out that the Australian Red Cross is the main civilian co-ordinator for disaster relief for these fires, and like their parent organisation and all their siblings, they are a completely secular charity.
An illustrated list of their guiding principles can be found on their website.
If you ever need an example of a secular charity, the Red Cross is the first choice.
I don’t think this will be enough. Considering the severity of the fires, I think they should fast for a longer period of time. The complete abstinence of food for seven weeks should be sufficient. Such an effort can’t help but make the world a better place.
No. you’ve got it all wrong. The police suspect arsonists and Pastor Nalliah claims to have known about the fires before they happened. he’s an accessory before the fact. They should haul him in for questioning at the very least.
I sent a mail to those CTFM lunatics,and to the SMH online.
Their head office is in Dandenong,maybe I pay a visit this week.
I agree with previous posters,the mainstream media is probably not reporting this because the health of those fuckers might be seriously threatened if they did.
The Cricket match between AUS and NZ just brought in 6 million for the bushfire appeal.
Then stop using gendered pronouns when referring to it.
Of course it doesn’t. It’s totally just convenient to describe an imaginary being wih no definable features as male when the pronoun “it” is readily available in English. (And there’s no reason whatsoever such a god can’t be female.) No. What you and others are doing is simply diluting your Judeo-Christian deity but retaining amongst yourselves the traditional image. What are the characteristics of this “impersonal creator,” and what evidence do you have of its existence, with these characteristics specifically? Why do you believe in it, and why is it worth anyone’s time discussing?
#54:
Malnutrition? I suspect you overestimate their commitment. I realise that these idiots aren’t Catholic, but since it’s the Catholics who codified fasting as a religious obligation, it’s instructive to read what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say on the subject. Apparently, fasting can mean simply skipping breakfast: you’re allowed two meals a day (midday and evening), the midday meal can be large, and you’re even allowed a little bread and sweet drinks in the morning. It’s very little hardship, if you want to play it that way: it’s just a way to appear pious without trying very hard.
See Walton,I might yet be convinced of this god business,if it turned out that god was some world class chick with great legs and a shapely body…Oh my,worshipping the god,count me in !!
It actually crossed my mind, the whole blaming-natural-disasters-on-the-sins-of-humans farce, when it became obvious that the fires were a major event, however because this is Australia I thought we would escape it.
I thought, what sin have we collectively committed that a so-inclined person might find to blame us for? Do we have any prominent lesbians living in rural Victoria? What did we do that THEY will find to say we deserved this calamity? “We” rejected the atheist bus idea so you’d think we’d be in God’s good graces!
Nope, for some reason natural disasters continue happening. In fact, the fires aren’t even a disaster. Not for the earth, anyway. For the victims it’s an outright catastrophe. But what these fire-and-brimstone people don’t realise is that the earth has had more fire events than they’ve had wet dreams about Jesus, and that it’s GOOD for the environment!
Natural events that are considered “disasters” for humans – hurricanes, tsunamis, volcanoes, earthquakes, forest fires, bush fires, droughts, floods, tornadoes, mudslides, avalanches – are all normal and ordinary and unavoidable, run-of-the-mill occurrences for Planet Earth.
Think about that next time you’re watering the garden and inadvertently flood out an ant nest…
A contemptible pile of excrement, few words can adequately describe this pile of shit and his followers. Would he regard it as the lords work if his ministry were really to “Catch the Fire”?
Didn’t you say you were a member of the Church of Angelina Jolie? I hope she’s not a jealous god…
Snerd @121 – it’s not that they don’t do backburning, it’s just that they haven’t been doing enough. Today’s Australian had an article summarising the problems, but it boiled down to too little too late. The conditions (extreme heat – record temperatures for two weeks before the fires – and extreme wind) certainly contribute to the fires, but without the fuel, these fires wouldn’t go far.
(The wind plays a big role; it kicks up embers – not just a few here or there, but tons of burning coals that can carry on the wind for up to an hour before going out. And those winds are going 100 km/hr….)
Oh, and a thanks to President Obama who apparently rang our PM to offer assistance, just after his big press conference earlier today; I’m sure the support will help, especially the extra helicopters and trained crew.
About time we adapted to existence in an increasingly hot and dry country by building underground as they do in Coober Pedy. Of course, in some areas that are prone to flooding AND fires, some compromise solutions might have to be found. Conventional housing, or the asinine suggestions of high density living are not the solution.
Yeah but that was months ago,and before I saw her in “Changeling” !!
If there is a new god with cuter toes,I could be convinced to swap denominations,I guess….:-)
Well,there’s Tracy Bartram…She’s suspicious..:-)
Nicely put.
Hitchens was right about this.
Theists have pointed the accusing finger saying with out a god, all is permissible and morals mean nothing.
This statement by this vile idiot is proof that the above statement is simply not the case.
With religion, things like this are completely permissible.
If this man had come out saying “I’m glad all those people died, they deserved to burn because they were black” or something equally repulsive, but not using his religion, the whole world would have jumped on him.
But with religion he can say “I am really glad all of those people burned to death because God says abortion is wrong and this is your punishment”!
He can say this and feel glad and calm in the knowledge that he thinks that nobody can touch him for it.
I have heard from someone out there that people were being burned to death even 150 away from the flames they were that hot – none of this matters to this religious man because now he can create panic and fear on behalf of his celestial dictator with whom he claims to have communication with.
What a horrible thing religion is when you can appear completely devoid of sympathy, say some incredibly disgusting things and know you will get away with it.
My deepest sympathies and honest condolences to those who have lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy
Philip
Posted by: Tom | February 10, 2009 12:18 AM
“There is no place for people like this in any civilised society.”
Yes there is.
Kinglake.
Questioning?
Nah, a couple of weeks with waterboarding so that he will tell the police all about the terrorist acts his gawd have committed.
And should the prick drown – well, – the lord giveth and the lord taketh. In this case nothing much either way though.
Don’t forget, this arsehole was second on the “Family First” ticket behind Stephen Fielding in the 2004 election!!!
I wonder what my ex father-in-law (evangelical fundie nutter) would be thinking right now. After he left Australia on his last visit, he emailed his congregation saying he had just left a ‘spiritual wasteland’.
Maybe he and Nalliah are besties.
All my family is safe, although my brother and his family had to evacuate. The keyboard player in my son’s band lost his family home and everything else. This band is made up of people with disabilities (Rudely Interrupted), so it is especially tough.
Checking up Wikipedia on ‘ghoul’, PZ seems right on the money:
Many ghouls are mindless and can only kill or do labor for their masters. It is said that the only way to kill a ghoul is by burning them until they are not but ash, also some think they have a fear of a cross. Ghouls have to obey the orders of the person that brought them back to life.
Also, I think my earlier suggestion about dropping the priestly prick and his congregation into the inferno might have a lot going for it, considering the only way to get rid of ghouls.
What load of ad hoc horseshit. Still, I don’t expect any better from a misological religiot.
So this hedge wizard wants to fix a disaster by spending seven days fasting and trying to cast spells. All I can say is, seven days is not long enough. Nope, a month or two would be better.
I shouted some very bad words at the telly when Lateline on the ABC reported what that theotard at Catch The Fire Ministries said. Fuckers. They make it hard for me to be polite to theists.
Fortunately, the Vic premier had little time for them and I don’t think most Australians will either.
mhm i wonder if confessions could reduce the number of bugs in software development :?
From news reports it would seen as of last night the confirmed death toll is 181, although it may exceed 200 with around 50 people “missing” at this time.
SC: …and why is it worth anyone’s time discussing?
In that case, why are you discussing it? Let’s not.
To excuse this as God’s punishment is just plain stupidity. Stupidity based on myths. Myths repeated without any proof. These fires are a horrible catastrophe…a man-made catastrophe.
“Its time people took the bible seriously.
God’s warnings and judgements are real and will only increase if people harden their hearts and refuse to repent
Dannys comments may not be politically correct but they are biblically correct
and its time an Australian pastor stood up and said so!”
It’s time religious zealots stopped applying their limited intellectual capabilities to the problems of the world because they offer no real help, advice or solutions.
“Goddidit” is not an answer, it’s an excuse for a lack of answers.
Leigh @ #138
Steady on. People might want to rebuild there, no sense poisoning the earth.
So some religious nutcase has a vision of uncontrollable flames and tells his followers about it. Somebody please tell me that religious fanatics have NEVER tried to fulfil the prophesies of their delusional leaders. I wonder if police should check for arsonists in the Church of The Fucking Morons?
More detailed response to SC:
What are the characteristics of this “impersonal creator,”…
I don’t know. Neither does anyone else.
…and what evidence do you have of its existence, with these characteristics specifically?
None. The basic premise of deism is that God does not intervene in the material universe in any perceptible way, and just leaves the laws of nature to operate on their own.
Empirical evidence is therefore irrelevant, since the existence of such a God is empirically indistinguishable from the non-existence of such a God.
Of course, empirical evidence could be deployed to prove that a personal/interventionist God exists; for example, if a scientifically-documented and undisputed miracle were ever to occur. However, thus far, to the best of my knowledge, there is no such evidence. Therefore, there are three options: deism, agnosticism and atheism.
Why do you believe in it…
In a sense I don’t. I just acknowledge the strong possibility of his/her/its existence.
…and why is it worth anyone’s time discussing?
It isn’t. So let’s not discuss it.
Well… praying is not going to put out the fire. nor fasting. But it’ll sure make them believe they are doing something… Idiots.
I liked the response from the hudson river’s plane, when they asked him if he had a chance to pray before the emergency landing “I left the praying to the people in the back”.
Reported today: radical Islamists have advocated “forest jihad” as a new terror weapon. So it’s not only divine wrath for imagined sin, now it’s divine direction to the armies of right. May Newton spare us all.
We’re already in a 30 year war.
It’s relevant that there’s no evidence for it.
Oh, quit weaseling. If there’s no evidence for it, you have no basis for claiming the “strong” possibility of its existence.
Then stop bringing it up on different threads. If you do, expect someone to call you on it. For cryin’ out loud.
There’s a simple word for people like Danny Nalliah:
Ghoul.
I can think of other words. None of them flattering.
SO this mounth-breather claims he is going to spearhead an effort to provide assistance to those affected by the fires by……sitting around doing nothing. In fact, he’ll be doing so much nothing that he won’t even eat. A real humanitarian, that guy.
Then stop bringing it up on different threads. If you do, expect someone to call you on it. For cryin’ out loud.
Don’t I get any credit for not talking about libertarianism?
This was the day before yesterday:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/02/the_stupid_it_burns_2.php#comment-1379328
Sure, but that doesn’t mean you get a free pass when you talk about god(s). Have you forgotten where you are?
:)
To those going on about fire breaks and back burning or the lack thereof read this:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/heat-similar-to-dresden/2009/02/08/1234027855652.html
Here’s a snippet: The “survivability” distance of Saturday’s heat was about four times their height – a 35-metre high fire would directly imperil those within 140 metres. That’s the length, or more, of a football field.
The conditions on the day were the worst in history. All the old rules did not apply. You hear story after story of people who were prepared for staying and fighting saying they saw smoke on the horizon, they’d turn to do something and by the time they turned around a huge fireball would be bearing down on them. Sometimes from the opposite direction they originally saw smoke or flames. They talk of houses exploding. Fires of this intensity rain fire, burning embers, hundreds of metres. They can spot kilometres away. A lousy break of 200 metres won’t stop an inferno like this. Potentially you could die from the radiant heat across a 200 metre break. We’re taught in the bush from a young age how to survive in a car during a bush fire. Essentially turn on the air-con, seal up the car and cover yourself with blanket and get on the floor. The fire is supposed to then pass over the car. I don’t know how many people died in cars this weekend. Dozens?
As someone mentioned above the eucalyptus has evolved to burn and it burns very well. My understanding is the eucalyptus oil vaporises in a fire and then explodes. Hence the fireballs people talk about. Our whole continent is covered with the stuff. Short of deforestation there is no alternative. Fly over city like Sydney sometime and just see how much bush land there is, even in as urbanised city as Sydney.
The lessons from Canberra and Ash Wednesday had been learnt. Now we have a new lesson.
Given that PZ has gotten fed up with libertarian discussion hijacking threads, it’s not really something to get credit for anymore.
But personally, well done.
My heart breaks for the people of Victoria and the thousands of them who have lost their lives and their homes forever. While some may see this tragedy as the punishing hand of a deity, the truth is that the true cause is likely the handiwork of a few arsonists and perhaps some naturally-set fires from lightning.
One can always count on the moonbats and self-hating humans to come out and declare that if we had just been more devoted to their deity then none of this would have happened.
I’ve never understood the Xian fixation on abortion and can’t seem to find any scriptural basis for the belief that Yahweh/Jehova is anti-abortion. Given the many, many stories in the Judeo-Christian texts recounting stories of Yahweh wielding divine retribution on people, indiscriminate of the age, sex, gender, etc. of the victims, I find it difficult that the Xian Zeus would care one way or another if a pregnancy is terminated. The old Hebrew storm god is pretty bloodthirsty, so what is one more dead baby to him?
The true “Christian” response to this tragedy is not to attempt to benefit off of it, but rather to step up and try to help those whose lives have been shattered by the disaster. Those men and women who are fighting the fires, caring for the people who fled their homes, feeding and clothing and providing medical care for them – THESE are the people who are following the teachings of Jesus, NOT the pharisees like the nuts at CTFM.
Funny, how most of Jesus’ teachings are identical to humanistic beliefs. You’d think that someone who allegedly dedicates his life to studying the scriptures would have picked up on that by now.
PS: Libertarianism SUCKS. It takes the worst, anarchic qualities of conservatism and combines them with laissez faire liberalism – and chucks the whole humanitarian part out of the window. It perpetuates the myth of the “self-made man” that is so typical of nativist Americans who forget that it really does “take a village”. No one lives in a vacuum.
I can only agree with most of the criticisms of this bloke here. Such would be the feelings of the great majority of us Aussies. One hopes it helps put the re-emergent religiosity back well out of mainstream Oz culture. Although there are major <ahem> problems with the Salvation Army, at least the Salvos go out with sleeves rolled up & do practical helpful things.
But I’m here to make a suggestion for Janine, Ignorant Slut (#65) & others I’ve seen here telling of similar experiences at funerals & sometimes other events.
There’s a silently eloquent expression of disgust which might catch on. Though I can very much understand how difficult it would be, OTOH, it might inspire others at the time to follow, & show how widespread that feeling is.
Stand up and turn your back on the speaker.
I don’t usually react as much as this, but I’ve felt compelled to post this comment at the CTFM site; I do not expect it to beat the moderator!
“I anticipate that you will not publish this, because you are probably a coward, and would not tolerate this level of dissent on your website. Prove me wrong!
You have no shred of evidence to link these appalling natural disasters to the anger of your “loving” god, but of course that hasn’t stopped you. Yet how likely is it that any entity with the power to create us or intervene for our own good would seek to prevent what you regard as murder by murdering other people indiscriminately.
You ought to allow someone to read back to you, in the cold light of day, what you have uttered. Perhaps then you will start to appreciate the utterly ridiculous, contorted, fictional, and in this case contemptible, view of the world that you are mistakenly purveying.
I do not know a single person with whom I have discussed this here in the UK who is not utterly appalled by your 360 degree stupidity and insensitivity. Even if your god existed, your arrogance would be inexcusable. Your behaviour is shameful.”
Not very eloquent…but I do feel better!
And God must be punishing us with floods because abortion is still a criminal matter here unless it’s for medical reasons.
God needs to make up his mind, is he for or against abortions?
PS: Libertarianism SUCKS. It takes the worst, anarchic qualities of conservatism and combines them with laissez faire liberalism – and chucks the whole humanitarian part out of the window. It perpetuates the myth of the “self-made man” that is so typical of nativist Americans who forget that it really does “take a village”. No one lives in a vacuum.
I’m sorry – I know I pledged not to talk about libertarianism – but this is so full of misconceptions that I can’t ignore it. I’ll try and explain civilly and respectfully.
First of all, we libertarians actually agree entirely that “no one lives in a vacuum”. The biggest, and most damaging, myth about libertarians is that we reject communities and act as if each person was an island with no dependence on others. In fact, we believe nothing of the sort. Indeed, quite the opposite; we value and appreciate the fact that free international trade makes us dependent on millions of other people around the world, every day of our lives.
But the difference is that we believe in voluntary transactions and voluntary communities. If X has a good or service that I want, and I have a good or service that X wants, it makes sense for us to trade. Nor is this restricted to the commercial; every person has hundreds of non-commercial voluntary relationships (familial, romantic, social…) with other people in their lives. This is what really builds communities and binds people together; voluntary interdependence, characterised by interpersonal agreements for mutual benefit.
As Hayek said, “The argument for liberty is not an argument against organisation. Rather, it is an argument against all exclusive, privileged, monopolistic organisation.” What we reject is the idea that community, interdependence and human social relationships cannot exist without State coercion.
As to your other myth: …and chucks the whole humanitarian part out of the window. This, again, is untrue. Libertarians are not Randian Objectivists; we don’t necessarily reject altruism and compassion (though some libertarians certainly do so). If you want to live in a commune and share all your wealth with the poor of your community, in a free society you have every right to choose do so. What we disagree with, again, is the idea that State coercion is necessary or desirable.
I’ll stop there. Professor Myers is, of course, welcome to delete this post if he so wishes, and I won’t say any more on the subject on this thread. Email me (walton_m AT hotmail DOT co.uk) if you want to discuss the subject more extensively.
Here’s an example of one of the prime factors behind my emancipation from my religion of birth: too many people getting too much pleasure out of the misfortune of others.
Gotta admit that I laughed at that one.
2 of my brothers are in affected areas, as well as cousins and many friends. Thankfully, they are all safe. I would like to see our ‘esteemed’ pastor joining the CFA (Country Fire Authority) and put himself in a postion to really help, instead of getting off on his deluded fantasies.
Walton, you have a blog. If you want to preach about looneytarianism, do it there, not here. Any pats on the head you might feel warranted because you haven’t praised looneytarianism for the past 32.78 hours are hereby rescinded.
Nalliah’s god is a loving god. That’s what the propaganda says. In which case it’s deeply into S&M. I know I couldn’t worship any god who’s that perverted.
Why does any newspaper give a platform to lunatics? Just because he’s a “pastor” means a certain level of respect? Crap!
We used to have a saying in Australia:
“It could only happen in America”.
Sadly, that adage is rarely appropriate these days since it seems we have our fair share of nutters too. This one has the potential to enter federal parliament since he’s apparently the second in line behind one of our sitting senators, Stephen Fielding.
Scary, scary stuff.
Walton, the number of things you, as all Libertarians, are completely wrong about could fill a fucking warehouse.
You’re a moron, everyone here knows it, please stop embarrassing yourself. The cheap entertainment value has worn of and it is now merely painful to watch.
CTFM is the voice of mental illness – sick fucks!
I have just read Pastor Nalliah’s comments, which are what one would expect from a person who sees events in terms of the signs and symbols of a vengeful Bronze Age god. I would encourage him explore the hidden symbolism of his own name. Does he know, for instance, that ANAL RASH PILOT is an anagram of Pastor Nalliah? Is his god trying to tell the rest of us something? I think we should be told.
I have just read Pastor Nalliah’s comments, which are what one would expect from a person who sees events in terms of the signs and symbols of a vengeful Bronze Age god. I would encourage him explore the hidden symbolism of his own name. Does he know, for instance, that ANAL RASH PILOT is an anagram of Pastor Nalliah? Is his god trying to tell the rest of us something? I think we should be told.
I tell you what really gets to me (and this is not a partisan comment at all): intellectual arrogance. It’s the one evil that pervades many adherents of all ideologies.
Stu (above, #173) is a shining example of this. While I could be offended by his words, I think this would be a misconstruction; it’s worth noting that he says “…the number of things you, as all Libertarians, are completely wrong about…”, thus illustrating that he believes – probably with full sincerity – that those of us who disagree profoundly with his worldview must be idiots. Because, evidently, if we were intelligent, we’d think the same way he does.
But this isn’t just characteristic of people on the left. Many libertarians (especially those in academia) are equally intellectually arrogant; so are many conservatives; so are many people, in fact, of all political tendencies. What we all need to realise is that the fact that people disagree doesn’t make them stupid. I don’t think leftists and other non-libertarians are stupid or ill-informed (on the basis that I know many non-libertarians in RL who are far, far brighter than I am); I recognise that we all have slightly different values and philosophical ideals, and that we come to different conclusions on the same data. I just wish other people could be a little more open-minded.
Walton, you have a blog. That your rants there.
Australians, my deep, deep sorrow for your troubles. Just horrible.
Very sad and even sadder, the fires may have been deliberately set to harm your people and your beautiful country. There should be a hell for anyone this evil.
Which is kind of ironic, if you think about it.
An online acquaintance posted this on a board, I don’t think he’ll mind me copying it:
Let me explain how so many have died; now expected to reach 200. After the last big fires known as Ash Wednesday and enq1uiry was held and it was found that people who stayed with their homes and protected them saved their homes and lived. Therefore people were appraised of the situation and it was left largely up to them whether they stayed or evacuated. The point was made that if you wanted to evacuate to go early and not to change your mind at the last minute. that was what got people killed. It was found that houses didn’t explode into flame but that fires started in the eaves and the fire past over locales very quickly. So the advice was to fill gutters with water and saturate eaves and water the roof lawn etc. and move out as quickly as conditions permitted to check for any spot fires. The evidence was compelling that this was good information. I was in a fire brigade at the time and it looked good to me and it matched the information we had from experienced guys. It WAS good information and I applauded it and the freedom it gave people to make choices for themselves. After all losing your home and possesions is a big deal. For most workers it represents a lifes work. Trouble is that this fire was exceptional. Nobody has ever experienced firestorms like it outside of Dresden. The fire was racing at up to 200 Klm H. Mature forests of trees that regenerate after fire regularly are burnt to ground level, left as lunar scapes. One couple, he an ABC journalist, middle aged, described how they did all the right things and embers were filling the house coming in through cracks they never knew existed. She said it was like being sprayed by a machine gun. They tried filling the cracks with wet towels but the hous3e filled with black smoke and they couldn’t do anything but leave it. At this stage they weren’t making decisions the fire was doing that for them. They got into the car and had nowhere to go, The end of the drive was an inferno. There was a patch of ground that had been burned over previously and they moved about on that, it was enough to save them. The house had exploded into flame less than a minute after they left it. Many of the dead are unburnt, there was simply no oxygen. Frankly i hope they don’t make evacuation compulsory. Unless of course conditions are the same as this weekend. This is Australia, the beauty and terror of it.
A 7 day fast? Doesn’t sound like long enough. I think god is really angry. I suggest a 365 day fast for Nalliah. That should placate god, but good!
So they’re going to use prayer AND fasting to fix the problems. That’s pretty sure-fire. I mean… everyone knows that prayer alone doesn’t work, but if you combine it with fasting, then you’ve got yourself a serious tool for international restoration.
*eye roll*
I sent this to the CTFM website. The next comment I read after sending it, informed me that the site is heavily monitored. Oh well.
Pastor Nalliah,
Your comments about the brush-fires now raging in Australia being God’s revenge for abortion laws passed there has come to the attention of Pharyngula blogger, Professor PZ Myers. In his blog he calls you a “Ghoul.”
In the comments section, one of your own countrymen writes “Nalliah, you are a skidmark on the bedsheet of humanity…”
I could not agree more with both of them.
I realize that you’re too god-steeped to feel the slightest compunction about your words, but you should really feel very, very ashamed.
C. M. Baxter
USA
Ref my earlier comment 163: the negative response to Nalliah’s obnoxious bollocks.
They did publish it. Implying he is a coward and daring them to publish it to prove me wrong seems to have worked. Won’t make any difference of course, but a few more wouldn’t hurt!
Most of you haven’t read the pastor’s comments very carefully. I think he is aware of centuries of criticism of the biblical portrayal of god as a malevolent, vindictive tyrant. He did not say god is burning these people. He said god has removed his protection and the devil is burning them. See how that works. Just like the popes never actually burned anyone during the inquisitions because the fires were set by the secular authorities. God, and the church, gets someone else to do the dirty work…
Someone very like this rang up the Sydney radio station 2UE this morning. Mike Carlton tried to have a rational discussion, but eventually ended up with “I think your attempt to link this tragedy with your crackpot religious ideas is despicable, obscene, [a number of other words I missed]. Go away.” Or words to that effect. A bit later someone claiming to be Christian rang up in total support of Carlton.
On a related matter: we have seen many interviews with survivors. Not one thanked God for their survival. Neighbours, police, fire-fighters yes, God no. One gets the impression that on American TV, if you don’t thank God, you don’t get broadcast.
#187:
Sounds like a classic protection racket. It’s a favourite technique of organised
religioncrime. Are we talking about God, or Godfather?There’s another simple word for him too – WANKER!
This sort of nonsense was tried on by American preachers after the 9/11 attack. Who was to blame for it – anyone they didn’t like in American society.
Bah humbug!
Many thanks for the support for we aussies here. Whilst not directly affected I know there are so many people in this world that care for the welfare and future of not just humanity but all the individuals that make up humankind.
The net has woven us together so intimately that the degrees of separation can be one. Nature is a cruel blind force that only reason and compassion together can even hope to offer resistance. Maybe we can end this tyranny, overcome our genetic shackles and shape the world we inhabit into a garden of ordered beauty and bounty and the diversity of deep layered wilderness.
As vile as the comments of this Pastor, the media has done well to promote the story, it is this insensitivity and parasitic behaviour that highlight that it is the actions of brave people that save lives. Planning for disaster and responding to catastrophe rapidly count, not praying (or more accurately, preying). These statements whilst defaming the many theists that are equally disgusted does show the risk that exists when the actions of the State are guided by the delusions of blind faith.
Rain and storms have reduced the immediate fire risk for me, but I fear that the trend is ever upward for temperatures and global warming overall. We can get through whatever is ahead, fires, pestilence and disease. Even a Methane Catastrophe is survivable and reversible (over time, though better averted altogether). Science can direct us and our knowledge base grows. There is a path I am sure between a fortress mentality and mitigating environmental breakdown and restoring sustainable systems. Wasting resources on the clergy and worship is ludicrous. Time is far too short to permit this insanity to flourish at huge financial cost to all citizens.
Publication of this Pastor’s words may be what is needed to shock some of the pious to see the dangers of the lie that has been slipped past their filters. Truth may be unpalatable but the ugly and unpalatable reality of theism is out there for all reasonable people to see and question.
“These people are useless lunatics.”
I wish they were merely useless, instead of destructive in all kinds of ways both large & small. As for Nalliah’s religion–it’s been 40 years, but I hazily recall learning in my Catholic catechism class that it was a sin to take pleasure in another’s ill fortune, as is priding oneself on one’s own virtue. Also, that action can be as much if not better prayers than words, & that “feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, & comforting the afflicted” were the duties of Christians. As always, I’m struck by the irony that non-believers more often practice the virtues of religion than those who make a loud public show of their belief that benefits no one but themselves.
So, somebody had a dream, eh? Well, big deal. Lemme tell ya, I frequently have dreams; dreams at about 4:30, maybe 5:00 AM. Usually about the tasks I’ll have to perform that coming day. Usually intriguing, usually useless.
But, funny thing, every once in a while a dream actually does provide a clue to solving the problem of the day. Big deal.
My dreams are dictated at least partially by the demands of the moment, the things I’m paying attention to. If I were to never get a clue to the task of the day from a dream, that would be something!
On the dream scale of credibility, I’d give this one about a 37. Easy to dance to but when you think about it a little, it goes away.
Former Christian Broadcaster, here.
(That’s “former” as in “former Christian,” and “former Broadcaster…”)
I’ll be brief, PZ. Fuck him.
Ghoul? You’re too kind.
Wife to husband: Henry, will you ever learn to wipe yourself properly? Look here, you’ve left another nalliah on the bedsheet!
RayB: “I think he is aware of centuries of criticism of the biblical portrayal of god as a malevolent, vindictive tyrant. He did not say god is burning these people. He said god has removed his protection and the devil is burning them. See how that works”
Ahh, yes. So God just turns a blind eye to it because he finds it all too difficult to deal with himself.
I was walking down the street this morning and I swear I heard an old lady say “Damn, I just stepped in some Nalliah!”
@Jonathon
As a former Catholic, one of the last things I reflected on before leaving the faith was that if Jesus, given how down-to-earth and gentle he was portrayed, would have ever endorsed the largescale institutionalization of his teachings, or this sort of bigotry and intolerance.
These days I see no difference between these so-called Christians and console fanboys and hardcore otaku: Immature, fanatical, misguided, and long overduedue for a severe bitch-slapping to re-introduce them to reality.
Damn, I see CM Baxter had a similar thought. So much for being original.
On another note, the always upset Derryn Hinch is ropable about this.
Keith: On a related matter: we have seen many interviews with survivors. Not one thanked God for their survival. Neighbours, police, fire-fighters yes, God no. One gets the impression that on American TV, if you don’t thank God, you don’t get broadcast.
I made that comment to my wife yesterday. Hours and hours of TV and radio coverage (I haven’t read the papers) and almost no mention of God whatsoever until Nalliah’s self-agrandising comments.
AndyD, I don’t think much of Hinch, but that was a righteous piece.
I admit I hadn’t picked up on it, but I agree that both news coverage and sentiment regarding this disaster here in Oz are generally secular and sympathetic.
Yeah, I noticed that as well.
The Herald Sun had one “Miracle…” headline, but no “Tragicle” headlines.
Read the condolonces on the ‘Your Say’ section of The Age online however, and it is wall to wall “Thoughts and Prayers”. Its just so trite, theres no thought at all in them.
Is anyone else concerned by the idea that the leader of a group called “Catch the Fire” claims to know who’s responsible for these fires? It sounds suspicious to me.
I wasn’t being original at all. LC @#69 said, in part, “Nalliah, you are a skidmark on the bedsheet of humanity…”
In my mind, that description of the pastor alone makes LC the winner of the thread. I’m going to use that one!
I don’t understand religious people when disasters like this happen. There was one quote from a person saying that he had prayed to god to spare his house but ‘… I guess he had other plans’. WTF?!!! Yeah other plans indeed, he was out getting drunk with his mates and finger-banging your cat rather than saving your house!!
How can people believe in god to begin with me is somewhat understandable as an emotional security blanket to counter the unspeakable horror of a finite existence, but to attribute to a role in this ‘divine being’ in the destruction of your property, without giving him the finger, is insane. I simply cannot comprehend this mindset.
:: sigh ::
To say nothing of blatantly Gerrymandering the boundaries of what does and does not count as “harming others.”
But anyway.
What we all need to realise is that the fact that people disagree doesn’t make them stupid.
Walton, that you actually feel the need to say this, in THIS thread, marks you as quite stupid.
no need for disagreement to mark you as such.
go.
the fuck.
away.
…
Now that I’m in NZ, dozens of survivor stories are pouring in, as many neighbors and locals have friends/relatives directly affected by the fires. Fortunately, no losses of relatives/friends reported from my neighborhood yet; a few houses down though.
These latest firestorms sound like something totally unprecedented in OZ? It takes me back to what I saw with all the firestorms in CA a couple years ago. Lots more structures destroyed, but we chose to evacuate entire cities first, and the death toll was a quite a bit lower.
Please do not try to put all people with religious belief in the same box as this hateful filthbag. He seems to have forgotten that even in full-on Old-Testament smiting mode, his God spared entire cities of iniquity and depravity for the sake of ten good people within them.
To suggest, therefore, that God would burn children alive for the crimes of complete strangers makes him a terrible Christian and a marvellously skilled fuckhead.
His direct line to God and his tendency towards displacement of responsibility suggest he is somewhere on a spectrum between evil and schizophrenia. I suggest a few months compulsory antipsychotic therapy to sort out which is which.
And, Walton:
The last thing I’ll say about this is although Libertarians talk as though their ideas are new and represent untapped potential to transform society for the better, the simple fact is that we as a society have already experimented with near or total absence of state regulation of business, and with leaving provision for humanitarian needs to voluntary, private efforts, in a modern industrial society. We as a society have seen the results of these policies in the Gilded Age and the Great Depression, and the scale of human misery and, ultimately, societal collapse that they engendered is the reason we established regulation and social welfare programs, both of which, ironically, seem, like vaccination programs, to have succeeded so well that their perceived necessity is undermined by the fading of the memory of just how horrible life was for the majority of people before they were established. There is every reason to believe that a reinstatement of the same policies would have the same devastating effects, and no Libertarian has ever been able to explain how they will make things different this time around. This is why Libertarians are not taken seriously when they claim that they are not opposed to altruism or efforts to aid the poor – since most Libertarians do not present themselves as being completely and utterly ignorant of history, it is simply incredible that they are genuinely unaware of the effects their policies would have if reinstated. It is far more believable that they are aware of the suffering they would cause but, for whatever reason, simply do not care how many people their policies would hurt, but pretend otherwise in order to make their poison pill of a philosophy more palatable to non-de-facto-sociopaths.
Put as much effort into denouncing him as you do into complaining about us taking him at his publicly unchallenged word that he speaks for the bulk of the religious, and we’ll consider it.
Ichthyic,
Not completely unprecedented; there’ve been big killer bushfires before. But, from what I’ve heard, this one seemed to move faster and travel father (in terms of its ability to propogate itself) than anyone’s ever seen before.
Seems that a prominent Aussie politician, Peter Costello is having to show he is biting the hand that has fed him.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25038142-5018722,00.html
Got to love that the media has no problems calling that sect a cult.
Some further biographical info on this alleged “Pentecostal minister”: very recently he enjoyed the support of the former Federal Treasurer, Peter Costello (who recorded a greeting for one of their “conferences”, which is currently linked on the CTFM website), and also was placed second behind Senator Steve Fielding on the 2004 Victorian Senate ticket for the “Family First Party”, a party formed by a rump of non-mainstream conservative Christians attempting to push their equally toxic views into politics. It’s an intellectual emergency that a person with such perverted, lunatic views as Nalliah would stand to replace Fielding in Parliament, if he resigned from the Senate.
Thanks for the link to the original CTFM (Church of The F*cking Morons) press release: easily the most infuriating thing I’ve read this year.
I too have been thinking of coining a particularly disgusting definition for the neologism “nalliah” (either as a noun or verb), however I’m concerned that LC’s phrase of “a skidmark on the bedsheet of humanity” doesn’t really do justice to the vile, poisonous, despicable, and callous nonsense spouted by this so-called “Pastor”. To compare Nalliah to, for example, toxic waste, would be a gross insult to the general reputation of toxic waste.
PML (from postcode 3054, btw)
Argh,
As someone directly affected, who has spent the last 5 days defending our home from ember storms and who has lost two dear, dear friends to the flames, there aren’t even any words to describe how absolutely sickened i am to read that.
If anybody can possibly help out and spare a few dollars for the 6000+ people who have so far lost their homes and the families of the 181 (at the time of writing) plus people who have lost their lives, PLEASE donate to the Red Cross Australia. You might be able to make an ACTUAL difference rather than letting these crazies try and ‘help’ with their ‘material goods and prayers and fasting’ crap making life worse for everyone involved.
Clintsc9 @ 10:55pm, thanks for that link.
And it appears I missed AndyD’s post at 11:10am; according to Article 15 of the Constitution, Senate casual vacancies need only be filled by any member of the same political party; it need not be the party member who was “next on the ticket”.
Nonetheless, in political terms the Family First Party have two choices: either do the decent thing and expel Nalliah for such abhorrent views; or, if he retains the support of the party, they deserve to be re-labelled as the “Bushfires Sent By Satan Party” at every subsequent election.
The only way Family First would ever get rid of a member is if that member poses naked and puts pics of himself on the internet.
If this guy really thinks that his god set Victoria on fire to punish the victims for supporting reproductive rights, why does he intend to “provide assistance” to them? Wouldn’t that be subverting God’s judgment? If I were that god I’d be pretty pissed off. I’d also be a murdering psychopath, but you get the idea.
But seriously, if this guy really is going to help the sufferers of this tragedy (and I mean really help, not just pray for them or tell them they’re sinners and need to grovel to Jesus) then he should be commended for that. However, his shameless attribution of blame to people who support reproductive rights is a low act and should be condemned.
You know what Walton – I’ve lost hope that PZ will ban your stupid ass. Perhaps he is letting you drone on and on as a poster boy for stupidity.
But your objection to ‘intellectual arrogance’ on a thread dealing with the horrific life and death situation in Australia is just too much.
Fuck you Walton, you smug asshole.
Prior to the 2004 federal election a Family First party volunteer said that lesbians should be burnt at the stake.
Rather than condemning this opinion, the Family First candidate merely waffled and side stepped the issue.
A seriously stuffed up group of people.
when i read that in smh this morning i almost choked… what an arsehole.
the only good i can think of him getting coverage is that enough attention has been paid to it that it will turn people against his crackhead church…
What all news reports seem to have ignored is that when Nalliah originally reported this supposed dream, he said:
“I saw a man firing randomly with a weapon at people on the streets and many were falling dead. I was very disturbed and was crying. Then the scene changed and I saw fire everywhere with flames burning very high and uncontrollably.”
He seems to have forgotten the seemingly unforgettable gunman in the latest retelling of the prophecy. I wonder why?
More discussion, dissection and linkage on my blog.
Ichthyic and Patricia: You’re right. Looking back, I was insensitive and stupid to rant about irrelevant things on this particular thread. I apologise, especially to all the Australians here. I’ll leave this thread now.
Hi Guys
Someone said Australia’s a tinderbox and they’re dead right. With the current tragedies of human mortalities, native animals and destruction of homes and eco-systems from the current bushfires, we are viewing the heinous arsonists as mass murderers.
When it comes to pass, we will soon view the other eco-vandals (the big end of town) also as mass murderers. Oz is in a bad way. Western Australia is officially listed as one of the most threatened biodiversities on the planet. The major rivers there are on life support where oxygen is being forced artifically. The fish are rapidly depleting in those two WA major rivers – thanks to industrial pollution including agricultural runoff. Mass bird deaths from industry – 9,000 dead ones from one mining company (lead) – 6,500 native animals from another – falling into trenches unable to get out!
The beautiful Sydney Harbour is contaminated with dioxins and for some 20 years, 10,000 tonnes of hexachlorobenzene has been languishing in rusting drums at Botany Bay where HCB has caused an underground toxic plume. Same in WA from a hazardous waste plant that blew up. The plume’s heading for the river. All this is just for starters.
In the meantime, the big end of town (skeptics) are categorically denying that industry has anything at all to do with warming. They may not meet Pastor whatsisname, but I sure hope they meet their Karma!
Keep posted guys for Oz is the canary in the coal mines!
Ciao from Oz
I live on the outskirts of a small rural town in Australia. Every time I drive anywhere I get this overlay of flames licking through the bush at the side of the road. I catch myself looking around the house, wondering if one of the corners will be where I will die one summer. I look out of the window and wonder from which direction the fire will come. If, without actually experiencing it, I am having nightmares, what must it be for those who experienced the reality?
This fkr ought to be forced to give his sermon in the centre of Kingslake, and if he survives it, then Marysville. He can look into the eyes of the man who put his children into the car, turned away and had it explode behind him. He can explain to us why a 6 month baby needed to be murdered by god for the ‘sin’ of abortion.
This was not a bushfire. Bushfire we know. Bushfire we can usually deal with. This was a firestorm. It travelled 50km in 30 minutes. The heat was in the high forties before the fire even arrived.
No one was prepared because no one thought it could be that bad. But as the premier said, to clear the region would have meant evacuating over a million people. OK, that may be doeable, but where in the state would you send them? Nowhere with the capacity to take them was any safer. And fires happen in tourist season when the spare accomodation is full.
That said, I think there will be bigger population movements the next time something like this is predicted.
I am grateful for the compassion of the bloggers here, (though I am not claiming any for myself – I have not suffered in the slightest from these events).
” a result of the incendiary abortion laws …”
Nothing quite like straining at a gnat.
The recent changes to the law only codify 40 years of legal practice since the Menhenitt ruling, and importantly protect doctors from prosecution – even though that risk has been only theoretical throughout those 40 years.
Longer answer:- the Menhenitt ruling is case law that says that a doctor may perform an abortion for the sake of the woman’s health (mental or physical) and that her welfare is paramount. That has been the case in Victoria for 40 years.
However, abortion remained a criminal offense and the doctor was at some risk of a criminal prosecution, although it’s unlikely one would be mounted (they never have been) or that it would succeed.
The recent changes simply codified all this by decriminalizing abortion and making the doctor safe from prosecution – a very important step, but really just a matter of tidying up loose ends.
Nothing to say on this that hasn’t already been said – sympathies to all those who have suffered directly or indirectly from these fires.
OT.
Hey, Nick, where ya hanging your hat these days?
If God had a hand in this, he should burn in Hell for it. But, I’ll wait for the investigation to be completed before actually making an accusation; that’s only fair.
Well, at least one of the major, mainstream chuches is denouncing the arrogant idiot. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/failing-to-understand-the-nature-of-an-understanding-god-20090211-84of.html?page=-1
In particular:
“Uniting Church of Australia president Gregor Henderson speaks for most in saying Nalliah’s claim is ludicrous, abhorrent and misunderstands the nature of God.”
For those who don’t know, the Uniting Church is the amalgamation of the methodist and congregationalist churches and most of the presbyterian ones. Through Victoria it’s numbers and influence would be roughly equal to those of the anglican or catholic churches. (And no, I’m not a member.)
Also as a side note, there are numerous columns, editorials and letters to the editor in the local papers about the increasing ferocity and frequency of heatwaves and bushfires. Average, normal people here recognise global warming as a serious threat, even if our governments are slow on the uptake.
eleanora in Ballarat, at least 1.5 hours drive from the serious fires.
Where I come from CTFM is a very nice chain of seafood restaurants.
Unlike the Australian CTFM you won’t find nuts there and there’s also no bull.
Westboro Baptist Church has joined the fray claiming they know who lit the fires.
My coverage here:
“Useless lunatics” is way more polite than those frakkers deserve.