Since an annoying security hole in Typekey was exposed here, I’ve reenabled anonymous commenting. I still want to tinker with this, so later I may try requiring OpenID registration…but I’ve irritated everyone enough for one weekend, so I’ll try that some other day.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
I went to Disqus on my website. I’m not even sure the dam thing works. Could a couple of you readers surf over there and test my commenting system? If it’s whack, I’ll change it ASAP. One thing Disqus allows is tracking (on my Disqus profile at Disqus website) Thanks.
Enjoy.
My killfile is no longer working, is anyone else having that problem?
Well never mind, it started working as soon as I posted. It was either fixed or on my end. Now I just look ridiculous.
Aint got no URl aint got no website aint got no web identity but I do got you PZ and I dont need no type key.
Thank you. pP.
Meh. I have a TypeKey ID (see?), same name as various OpenID accounts. I’m just too lazy to bother signing in.
I love a random drive by troll.
Just a heads up, this poll needs crashing. With 1629 votes, “no” leads “yes” 52% to 43%.
“Do you think the medical use of embryonic stem cells is OK?”
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/index.html
Hrm, what security hole, is this anything I should be worried about? details escaping etc?
Sure we attract a large number of boorish ignorant religious fundies who can’t use CAPS LOCK properly, but it doesn’t really get annoying because they get destroyed by the regulars anyway. Closing the site down isn’t really necessary.
Adam C@9,
There was an expectation that the display names would be unique. Most of the discussion on this was over at:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/01/on_the_road_to_calgary.php
You might want to search down to my post because, my testing discovered it. I wouldn’t call it a security hole, just a disappointment perhaps, it is no worse than we have right now.
AdamC, apparently there was no uniqueness of user IDs enforced in TypeKey. If you changed your user ID to another user’s, you could easily impersonate that user. The SciBlogs software is fooled by this to the extent that you could impersonate PZ by simply assuming his user ID. Totally unacceptable.
speedwell,
My bad perhaps. I never tested whether uniqueness of identities was enforced in the current method. I assumed that it wasn’t. Is “PZ Myers” protected in the anonymous login process? Hmmm, well I guess the lack of the typepad mark would give it away, unless that can be spoofed too.
AG, I was just restating your findings and the couple that followed you in the other thread… I am making a somewhat informed guess that the blogging software prevents someone from impersonating PZ under the “anon” system because he has to log in uniquely to administer the blog, but there’s no such constraint in TypePad. I’ll test this next.
Speedwell, testing entering userID PZ Myers and PZ’s contact e-mail address.
Speedwell,
Why don’t you put in his URL also:
http://profile.typekey.com/pzmyers
I wonder if the funny character shows up.
Hm, the system knows I posted that last one; I tried posting “Uh, that was bad; PZ, you need to get this corrected on an emergency priority basis” a few minutes ago, and the system said I had posted too often within its time constraint, so it must be tracking IP addresses internally. I don’t know whether that IP information is visible to the blog admininstrator, or just at the site administrator level.
“PZ”@#15: Actual science* being done in a comment thread! Win!
*At least, Zombie Feynmann would agree it was science.
OK, Speedwell again, testing AG’s suggestion in #16. I predict I won’t get the TP (which should stand for “toilet paper”) symbol because I’m not logged in to TP as PZ, but PZ’s name should show as a link to his profile in TP anyway. Here we go.
I kinda liked the smaller threads, for the purely narcissistic reason that they meant a better chance for my ineffable comments to be more widely seen and admired.
Of more interest to our host and his unseen Overlords: what effect – if any – did the registration experiment have on overall readership?
Damn. Speedwell, remind me to never piss you off.
You’re right speedwell, we can spoof it better with typepad.
I’ve never put in a URL with my typepad posting, so I’m testing one for its impact on a typepad identity.
No symbol, OK. But I would miss that on a casual read down a thread. I think the scenario where the TypePad user changed his TypePad user ID to PZ Myers was tested in the other thread and the symbol did show up. We could attempt to duplicate those results.
Hmmm, the URL is meaningless with typepad. My identity still points to typepad.
It’s no worse in the sense that ScienceBlogs is fooled by both (into displaying the post as being from the host) but it is worse psychologically in that TypeKey is implying additional security for users which isn’t really there.
If only ScienceBlogs had been keying off the TypeKey login name/number rather than off the display name … and also not inconsistently displaying either the login name or ID number. NB A number is safest for not blowing half of its own security(!), although name is simplest for humans to identify repeatedly and distinguish.
Carlie, I apparently can waddle like a duck and quack like a duck, but not be the duck. Besides, as one of the token libertarian commenters here, I’m evidently one of the people you are expressly commanded to piss off whenever possible. This does not mean we are going to derail the thread talking about libertarianism. Geesh. {glares} :D
No need to test typepad again, PZ Myers with the symbol showed up just fine. You had to compare the links to tell the difference. I guess we are fortunate that putting in the URL doesn’t override those links otherwise the spoofing would be complete as far as users were concerned. It would require administrators to detect it.
Oh, good, thanks for pointing that out; I was about to retest it.
Yeah, I call this a general security FAIL.
Not seeing how typekey/typepad will keep the trolls down. All one has to do is create multiple typepad profiles to have multiple IDs. It is an extra step but these crazy clowns have lots of time on their hands, seeing as how they usually skip their main task for the day,…finding and taking their medication.
Typepad was also a huge buggy hassle to join. I filled out the join box and then hit enter. And got a cryptic error message and no indication that the application went through. Eventually managed to find my profile that it wasn’t obvious existed and purely by chance, saw a box saying permission to pass forward my email address to blog owners. Eventually it worked but I would hate to try and succeed at it again.
Anti-troll defenses really are necessary though. Whole huge domains have become useless because of the troll problem. They just fill up empty spaces like air fills up a vacuum. Without some sort of defense, eventually the BB becomes worthless and everyone abandoms it. The one site I frequent that doesn’t have much of a troll problem is heavily moderated.
Folks, I’m no hacker. I’m just an IT flunky. I tested the obvious things in the obvious way. There was absolutely zero thinking outside the box required. That’s what makes this so potentially dangerous.
If you have a minute, take it now to consider how obvious your security settings are on your computer, your blog, your bank account, your front door… and correct them immediately if necessary. We live in a password world.
Maaahhh-oooomm!!! Speedwell’s talking about libertarianism again!!!
Shit. Now I’ve done it. Please disregard anything that appears to be coming from my account for the near future. :)
Is there some good reason (other than not being bothered!) why ScienceBlogs couldn’t run its own account scheme? It apparently already has a separate scheme for Sb bloggers. Eg seen when Coturnix posted with a spanner(?) symbol instead of the TK key symbol.
I’d trust PZ more than Sb; and possibly Sb more than many other places – although they’d probably still stupidly try and insist on unfair sign-up stuff such as everyone having to be either male or female (just like the religionuts and other typical non-thinking humans do). Earlier today I dismissed plurk from consideration for committing that particular crime.
How well does OpenID work in other places people might have seen it?
Am I glad registration is off again. It was introduced while I was writing a long comment; when I clicked “post”, it got eaten — it didn’t come back when I went back from the “registration required” error message. Then I read the thread about it, found one horror story after another, found the registration page somewhat scary, and decided to wait till registration would be switched off again. Also, Facilis has a TypeKey identity; getting one is not, like, too complicated for creationists or something.
And worst of all — there was no mention of the fact that registration was required anywhere near the comment field or anywhere else on the blog. If you hadn’t read the relevant post, the only way to find out was what I did: to write a comment, click “send”, and lose the comment. Imagine a scientist dropping by for the first time, seeing their own work discussed, writing a comment, and then…
Wow, that’s a real goatse of a security hole.
So I guess troll assassination is out of the question? <);o)
Well enough. It can be a bit annoying though. For some (now doubt reasonable, security-related) reason you can’t click from the blog you are commenting on to log in and approve the message. I have to log into wordpress separately.
Incidentally, having the links in people’s names go to the their typekey accounts and not to real websites sucks. OpenID would be better for that.
Typepad was also a huge buggy hassle to join.
I just kept getting server errors when I tried to log in. This stuff is still happening in 2009, huh?
Whole huge domains have become useless because of the troll problem.
I remember how bad Yahoo News got. The comments on a story about a kitten being rescued during a flood would degrade into a religious abortion debate within ten posts. A quick blurb about the release of a new movie would be infested with 9/11 conspiracy loons.
Personally, I like Slashdot’s system of user moderation.
A shame it wasn’t April Fools Day. We could legitimately(?) have had whole threads full of people posting while claiming to be Spartacus / Brian / PZ …
ScienceBlogs really needs to sort its act out though. As a minimum, perhaps PZ should take to using his Sb login identity – like Coturnix. I would hope that’s harder to fake in full.
We could always require commenters to type in some sort of blasphemous sentence to access the blog. But that wouldn’t be any fun. Imagine how bored the Roman lions would have been if entry to the Colosseum was protected by the password “The Olympians alone are worthy of worship,” or something like that.
Whew! That was awful PZ. Please don’t do it again.
The bit of Gulliver’s Travels in Japan has a christian cross embedded in the floor under the archway from the docks to the city, in order to keep out European traders. IIRC correctly the endnotes said this was actually true. Swift uses it mostly to insult (as he saw it) the piety of the Dutch.
i have to concur with #29 in the lack of ease in signing up with typepad and then being able to post. i kept getting bizarre error messages that essentially put me into a loop. i eventually managed to figure out the labyrinthine method to reach the “pass through” permission screen.
i am glad anon posting is again an option for the time being. now to figure out whether or not having this typepad login is worth the bother.
Primitive Italian atheists in 16 century thought that animals arosed by “chance”. Darwin added to this curious idea his own invention of “natural selection”. His followers consider mutual combination of both nonsense – read: “random mutation & natural selection” – to be “scientifical” explanation of the evolution. Nothing is more distant from the reality. John Davison is one of those who clearly disclosed the whole neodarwinihan nonsense.
You should ask your web ninjas/gnomes to enable facebook connect. It makes it super easy.
… except for all those of us who neither have nor want facebook accounts.
I was actually about to suggest OpenID instead of or in addition to TypeKey. So I’m all in favor of that.
(said the guy who never even commented on here before)
Agreed. I have an account but I avoid it like the plague.
That thing is a time sink and plus people I never want to see again keep finding me on it.
Are there really any JAD followers, or is it just JAD?
POLL HELP NEEDED!!
Check out this poll on teaching evolution vs ID in Texas! We need help.
Now it’s 16% evolution only
24% ID only
51% both
9% neither
Here it is: http://www.kltv.com/
Hi, Pharyngularians. First of all congratulations for your new president Obama, I’am so happy that you did it, that he did it!!!
After nearly 20 years of desperation I realy think that my dream come true that a honest person can not only become president, but be intelligent, integer, AND give hope that is more than campaign bla,bla.
You can be so proud!! You proved to the world that the U.S is not a nation of extreme right-wing and semi-fascist christians. Once again congratulations to all good willing U.S people. And for the not so good willing; Pls. let him work, give him a chance to proove that what we need is not left or right ideologies, but pragmatical, sensible, humanist, ethic and environmentally intelligent action, for goodness sake.
Sorry for my not so good english.
I would much prefer OpenID.. TypeKey doesn’t like me for some reason, and I use OpenID on everything else anyway.
What’s wrong with captchas, BTW?
Funny how these JAD trolls keep bringing up ancient news. Does it have something to do with worshipping an ancient book?
Hi everybody, I just wanted to sa…oh, wait…excuse me, I thought this was a science blog.
Sorry. Bye Bye
After all the hassle I went through trying to recussitate my old TP account, and getting myself signed in, now I don’t need it?
Good!
Those are intended to stop bots rather than trolls. However, they also make it very difficult for those people with visual and hearing disabilities; especially anyone unlucky enough to get the various characters which look alike in many fonts (such as the number 1, lower-case L and upper-case i).
As it happens, I already have some sort of access to an OpenID account (if account is what it’s called) via other services. Not that I’ve ever used it for anything. But I think I’ve just activated that part of the system now, in case I do suddenly need it or have an opportunity to test its viability.
Awesome, PZ, thanks for enabling anonymous commenting. Going to your debate tomorrow at the U of A, looking very forward to that. Cheers!
VMartin
If anyone went to the KLTV poll, did you notice the headline “Sister Stabs Her Own Sister”? The former better be a nun.
“they get destroyed by the regulars anyway”
Didn’t Sherlock Holmes have a bunch of ratty kids that was referred to as the Baker Street Regulars. Don’t tell me PZ is morphing as Sherlock.
This typekey name spoofing fluke is ridiculous,you dont have to have any knowledge whatsoever about IT to figure this one out.And the registration process was troublesome,to say the least.
If its too hard to register we are going to lose commenters,so it better be something simple,and safe.
Im sure SB have their own implementation of a login scheme somewhere that could be tried.
And stay away from Facebook,it stands for all the security/anonymity problems the internet represents.
I don’t get anything. I don’t get Bertram Cabot Jr.’s post above either.
Has the PZ Myers bug been fixed or not? I see speedwell’s probably created a typekey account, but what’s worrying is that the SB software colors the PZ Myers posts in a different background, just like the real PZ. Is this really so difficult to avoid? And if I got it correctly, he even did it through an anonymous prompt. What’s typepad got to do there?
I don’t mind typepad, but if others are having trouble, I also see not much benefit to it. What I wanted from it, tracking comments, is not possible anyway, it’s disabled.
how do we know it just wasn’t some grand scheme to collect information on us…..
to compile lists of the unwanted and sub-human….
Andyo,
the way I see it this is a fluke in the implementation of the typekey login thingy,and not a SB problem.So it hasnt been fixed because its a problem inherent to typekey.Whether PZ can avoid the greying of the box somehow,Im not sure.But it can be done with any other name,thats the problem.
clinteas testing here….
Not quite. It’s both.
The TypeKey part of the problem only started some time after PZ switched to insisting on TypeKey (or Sb) logins for posting. PZ’s account and my account and a few others (perhaps the oldest ones?) suddenly switched to having the login name in the URL hidden under the display name rather than using the unique profile number. That’s a security breach in its own right (since ideally both login and password should be secret).
The ScienceBlogs part of the problem is in using the displayed name as the recognition trigger for deciding which poster is the blog host. That’s utterly ridiculous since anyone can put anything in their displayed name – and even in the URL behind the displayed name if that part isn’t being fixed by TypeKey or similar.
Now let’s be reasonable folks, you mean we’re going through this Type Pad mess because of a little trolling?
You know I’ve probably done a little trolling myself, but I tried to turn over a new leaf.
I’m attempting to work out what happens to the mental architecture in the brain when one exercises the gift of faith; how the spirit works through an unexpressed allele, producing a believer instead of an atheist. I need these comments from unvarnished mentalities in order to do a comparison.
@trolls 001-999
irrelevant nonsense is irrelevant.
Baker Street Irregulars (“Irregulars” as in an ad-hoc militia as opposed to a standing regiment I think)
The next time you are going to write something so gawd damned stupid Silver Fox, please post a warning for me to don my helmet and face sheild.
I almost *headdesk* & *facepalm*ed myself into a coma. You’ve ruined my pretty colander.
HEY!!! Look at me. I’m PZMyers. Holy Fruitbat!!!
Actually I’m not. But don’t adjust your screen. We control the vertical and the horizontal. We control this blog now. You have entered The Outer Limits. The next 5 posts will be easy lessons on how not to go to hell. You can start by sending all your nubile teen age girls (we don’t do nonnubile) and huge amounts of money.
Our Get Out of Hell Program comes with a money back guarantee. LOL
Yay! I’m me again.
It’s ignubile, silly, just like Michaelangelo’s ignudi.
clinteas #64, SEF #66
Thanks, that’s what I was suspecting (what SEF said, more accurately). I’m gonna be logging in with the new typekey account, which does not have my login name on the profile, see how that works.
By the way, I have been posting under two different typkey accounts with the same name, without realizing it was a security issue. It’s not a big deal for me if I or others get impersonated, because we can correct it and point out the error later, but it’s another thing when the blog owner can get impersonated with his own background color which should be unique and we’ve all been conditioned to trust that.
And, #71, “PZMyers”,
Big fail, in several levels.
Right now.. Typekey/Typepad is “broken” is you use firefox and the latest “NoScript”. Why? Because the morons use a system that involves XXS insertion to somehow do their captcha “and” logins to provide the system like Greta’s site has, which lets you post like here, but also log in if you want to. Tried to post there the day before yesterday, I think it was, and all I got was insertion warnings, login errors, and my post eaten in the process of trying to fix it. I personally have typekey/typepad. It doesn’t work well, has had login issues even “before” the latest “security” fix from “NoScript” for XXS insertion, its hard to work out how to “white list” pages that are needed to make it work with protections in place, and, unlike 99% of all the other sites I visit, it can’t seem to remember I am already logged in with “remember me”, set, two days in a row some times.
Yeah, not a huge fan of their design, or the idea of having to fight with it here too.
Mind, I do notice you have the “sign in” thing here too, so it must only bug on the captcha, or.. they “fixed” what ever was blowing up. I still, from experience, don’t trust the system though. :p
I’d definitely be in favor of an OpenID sign in …. TypeKey seems like it wants to do something similar to OpenID using a different login, which kinda defies the whole purpose of OpenID doesn’t it?
I hope you enjoy Calgary PZ! It’s a great city. My father grew up there.
I hope you have enjoyed my book as well. I look forward to seeing you again.
Also, I wanted to promote my food blog again.
Cheers, everyone. Happy Robert Burns Day!!
I didn’t much mind being blocked from posting, since I rarely have anything useful to contribute. I would appreciate having shorter lists of comments to read through; unlike PZ, I only have 24 hours in my day.
Riman:
Learn to scan. Many times it’s just a reiteration of what someone already stated before + a few snarky comments. Pay attention to the “recent comments” feed, it will point you to any conflagrations among the threads, and scan for PZ’s darkened response block in the thread as well as a few choice favorite posters and trolls, it’ll save you loads of time and effort.
Two words: WordPress MU.
Hell, WordPress alone would be an improvemnt. Or The Borg could try one of the other open source blogs to be found at Open Source CMS. For a pay service MT is so unprofessional.
I changed my TypeKey nickname to the one I use on here, but the mouse-hover shows the original name I got the account for to comment on MacUser. How do you fix that?
I used this strategy after finding out that I couldn’t start a new account using the same e-mail address, which is the one I use to sign in here. I assumed if I tried to comment with the “wrong” e-mail address, it would have gotten spit out.
So, in other words: Please, no TypeKey!
It’s remarkably honest — it explains “Intelligent Design” as “Creationism”!
Already looks fairly pharyngulated, though it could use twice that :-)
You keep using the word “allele“. It does not mean what you think it means — whatever you actually think it means, which is difficult to figure out.
Also, you make three — count them, three — assumptions without testing them (that there’s such a thing as mental architecture, that there’s such a thing as a spirit, and that there’s such a thing as an unvarnished mentality), even though your argument depends on them. If any one of them is wrong, your entire question becomes “why did Napoleon cross the Mississippi”.
(You also made a fourth assumption without testing it — that faith is a gift –, but nothing happens to depend on it here.)
He He,hope the lawyers are saving that page to their computers,for the next Dover trial…..
To Prof. Myers, et al
I am not by any stretch of anyone’s imgination a regular commentor, although I do comment when I can. To divide the “debate” further – as Prof. Myers and Seed are in need of a self-moderating feature, I accept a specific login. However, is there not a “seed login” that would be necessary to comment? I admire Seed and obviously their auth/cont for this publication.
Is there anything or anyone out there who can improve upon dependency of a program such as “typekey” or thereabouts?
As to the sign-in thing: Oh, well. Whatever provides the greatest good for the greatest number, I suppose. I’m not picky either way.
The Baker Street Irregulars were Holmes’ crew of “street arabs”. (to use the vernacular of the times)
They were his additional eyes and ears on the streets.
For the concern troll and the Davidson Clones:
Yawn. come up with something original sometime, would you?
Hm, apparently you *can* sign in with OpenID, in a kind of crippled way … you can click “sign up now” and log in via OpenID and every subsequent time you also click “create free account” to do your OpenID login. Like I said, crippled.
Good to see I can post again like this, it may be annoying to fill in the boxes but not nearly as annoying as using TypeKey. I’m all for OpenID though
*testing the way I normally comment*
OK. Now I need to go to the archives and see if I do, as I seem to recall, have a TypeKey identity. I’m pretty sure I got one just about the time Phyrangula moved to SB.
At any rate, y’all are safe. I have neither the motivation nor the energy to pose as any body other than myself. ;^)
OFF TOPIC:
A big problem with science education in America is unqualified science teachers. President Obama wants to solve this problem.
Make Math and Science Education a National Priority: Obama and Biden will recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession and will support efforts to help these teachers learn from professionals in the field. They will also work to ensure that all children have access to a strong science curriculum at all grade levels.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/education/
@84
“allele”. It does not mean what you think it means”
I think it means one of several alternative forms of a particular gene. What do you think it means?
Mental “architecture” – particularly the effect of sensory qualia on perceptual pattern recognition
“unvarnished” unaffected by an exercise of faith.
Gift of faith and the action of the spirit are purely subjective experiences of some personal certitude, unobservable and untestable.
Silver Fox,
You don’t have to feel the need to explain nonsense. David was just pointing that out in a oh-so-polite (and eloquent, as always) way.
Basically:
1) Nobody said we “atheists” have unvarnished mentalities.
2) There’s no evidence whatsoever of “spirit”.
3) Mental architecture – particularly the effect of sensory qualia on perceptual pattern recognition… now you’re just making stuff up.
SF,
you should’ve left it at that.
Claiming to be doing research on “how the spirit works through an unexpressed allele” and “particularly the effect of sensory qualia on perceptual pattern recognition” is laughable – especially your apparent belief that unexpressed genes affect brain function, or that qualia isn’t already the term referring to perceptions themselves.
Perhaps you should pack all those neodarwinian nonsense and close the shop. There is no evidence whatsever that “natural selection” played any role in creative evolution.
Troll @97, such as you are the reason the rest of us inconvenienced.
You’re not even amusing, unlike the argent vulpes.
Bah.
“Creative evolution”? WTF?
There is no evidence that natural selection played any role in creative evolution because there is no such thing as creative evolution.
As to OpenID or Typekey,I dont know enough about OpenID,but if they check their list of usernames against a database of existing ones at the time of account login or creation,then yeah,why not,give it a go.
Thats all typekey needs to do really to avoid this mess,check the typed username/password against a database of the existing ones.
You want PZ MYers or SC,OM ? Sorry mate,theyre taken…
Not rocket science,really.
Whoever who is?
I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic. I thought so at first, but when I googled that nonsensical phrase all I got was references to well known old crank John A. Davison. I saw your moniker referenced by Davison and VMartin, and now I wonder. (I know Broom is a dead guy. An ex-person. He has ceased to be… you get it.)
Oh, OK. Goody doody for you.
clinteas, I just signed up for OpenID as “speedwell” at five different “Identity provider” sites, including Vox, Technorati, Verisign, and two more I don’t even remember. They all went through. They even share three different passwords (now I hope I can keep them straight). So much for uniqueness.
Maybe Professor Myers can deal with JAD by offering him a guest post in return for knocking off the spamming by him and his talking hemmorhoid. That would show how non-existent this particular emperor’s clothes are, if it needed demonstrating.
Or maybe when the snow clears in Vermont, JAD will be able to get out into the fresh air and find more productive things to do.
Alan, since you have nothing of substance to say, why are you showing us your lack of intelligence with the last post? After all, we are talking about a senile old man, which makes you a sycophant of a senile old man. Nothing to be seen or discussed, just you going away if you had even a small working brain. The question is how much abuse is needed to make you go away?
Someone contact Davison’s family. He’s gotten loose again.
Nerd,
Have I missed something? I thought “his talking hemmorhoid” was pretty telling. I don’t think he was being serious about the guest post.
Or am I missing something? Is Alan Fox affiliated with the other “Fox” we see around? I need to catch up with this Davison stuff, maybe.
Andyo, my Poe detector is poor and I haven’t had any coffee yet. But anybody who suggests, even in jest, giving JAD a guest post deserves ridicule. If Alan was trying it as a peace offering, it ill considered and of questionable humor.
After JAD’s memos to various people lobbying to get Professor Myers sacked, would anyone think this a serious suggestion?
(I wasn’t)
Can’t win ’em all. Mea culpa!
For Andyo
Origin of “talking hemmorhoid”
The only thing the upgrade changed for me was that I couldn’t load the page on my blackberry, and was forced to find other means of ignoring faculty meetings.
Alan, OK, I jumped to the wrong conclusion. My apolgies. (Now to go remove foot from mouth.)
Alan fOX considers “Erasmus Darwin” to be the first darwinist. He wrote this bonmot – one of the best to be found on internet – :
“You seem to have overlooked one evolutionary scientist. Charles Erasmus Darwin came from Great Britain, which some consider to be part of Europe. He may be thought by some
to be the first Darwinist.”
He also thinks that “University Basel” in Switzerland is a professor.
More about original thinking of this neodarwinian enthusiast on OE.
Troll alert!
Hello, VMartin (#115]
“The Voyage of the Beagle” is still a great read. Is it available in Slovakian?
Oh, I get it. You’re hoping to cheer them up with the good news.
You’re right — except that this is irreconcilable with the following quote from you:
…because that’s just gibberish, even if we take into account that saying “unexpressed allele” instead of “unexpressed gene” is, though highly unusual, not outright wrong or nonsensical. How can anything work through an unexpressed gene? If a gene isn’t expressed, means, not transcribed into RNA, it doesn’t do anything, it just sits around and takes up space. How can anything work through it then?!?
And you still presuppose that 1) there is a spirit and 2) it can interact with matter at all. Test these two assumptions first; or your question remains “why did Napoleon cross the Mississippi”.
How is that an architecture, do qualia even exist, and if so, what are they, and…
You just waffle around. You take sciencey or philosophey terms, toss them on a hash, and act as if the result meant anything. That’s called “insipidity” on this blog.
Well, in that case, you can’t do research on them. I mean, how would you? If you can’t test the existence of the fucking Mississippi, how do you ever hope to find out why Napoleon crossed it?!?
You take sciencey or philosophey terms, toss them on a hash, and act as if the result meant anything. That’s called “insipidity” on this blog.
And you take magic formula “natural selection” add “random mutation” and behold – “science” of evolution is here!
Shut up, VMartin. Go learn how obvious natural selection is.
Hey, I’ve seen it happening with my own eyes in a petri dish. First of seven compulsory lab courses in molecular biology.
OK, I know I’m late on this, but how do we know VMartin and Davison aren’t the same? Has anyone ever seen them together in a room?
Wait… not in that way. You know what I meant.
Marjanovic’s afternoon “random biological ejaculation”:
Hey, I’ve seen it happening with my own eyes in a petri dish. First of seven compulsory lab courses in molecular biology.
You are not the first. Breeder Darwin observed “natural selection” in his pigeon-hole in the 19 century. Oddly enough no one noticed it before.
Because one wears glasses and the other one wears tights? I dunno.
Yeah, but Davison is notorious for inventing his own sycophantic imaginary friends and have “them” comment about how genius he is. Doesn’t VMartin also fit the profile? Everyone since I can remember has always treated them like 2 different guys.
I don’t even remember who John A. Davidson and VMartin are. I use my brain cells for far more important things, like remembering Star Trek trivia and making poop jokes.
“The Voyage of the Beagle” is still a great read.
It depends what kind of sci-fi one prefer. Jules Verne’s sci-fi is far better than Charles Darwin’s drivel about natural selection.
Ah, list, the lies never stop. But that would require imagination and knowledge, wouldn’t it?
Alert the home! There’s an escaped resident.
Voyage of the Beagle (1839) contains nothing about natural selection (1859). Nor is it fiction. Am I surprised that you have no idea what you’re talking about? I am not.
We got a live one!
How old is the earth list?
LOL. This is great stuff. I wonder which form of “magic” this guy espouses. ID? Special Creation? What?
(It’s our brave Bratislavan bank clerk VMartin in proxyserver mode!) Orthogenesis – often otherwise referred to as “pants loading”.
Thank you for re-enabling anonymous commenting. Wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s a better basis for conversation.
So I’ll include a pre-emptive “until we see each other again” in case you go back to registration. I’ll be out wandering around in the free world.
.
Maybe you should Hel-O-Scum commenting system;)
Andyo: @95
“3) Mental architecture – particularly the effect of sensory qualia on perceptual pattern recognition… now you’re just making stuff up.”
Flanagan, O. The Science of the Mind
Read maybe the last two chapters
Folks:
There is a notice that a Dr. Francis Collins who is said to have led the National Genome Project at the NIH is going to speak. He is said to have directed the project that mapped the entire human DNA. His title for the speech is: The Language of God – Intellectual reflections of a Christian Geneticist. For his work he was given the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He is said to have converted to Christianity after years of of being an atheist.
Does any one know anything about this fellow?
The amount of stupid in that question is just horrendous. Yes, we are aware of his scientific accomplishments. And he is regularly trashed here for being a godbot. And the reason for your question was?
Good grief, SF – use the search function in the top left hand corner of the main page, above the picture of our Bearded Overlord. Type in ‘Francis Collins’. The first four results are links to posts made by PZ specifically about Collins. You’ll find everything you need to know there.
Simple, it’s a null allele of a spirit suppressor gene.
Silver Fox, up in the upper left hand corner of this blog is a thing that looks like a box. Right above that box the word Search appears. It’s a nifty little box that does amazing things. If you type a word, or a name for example, into that box and then hit enter it will show you a list of all the posts that contain that name.
Give it a whirl and type Francis Collins into that box.
No really, try it.
It’ll look something like this.
Oh never mind I see wowbagger covered that a while ago.
Dammit what is with these peoples that come criticize without even taking the time to know the (VERY) usual suspects. Hey, did you hear about this Dawkings fellow. Stephen… no, I think Richard. Yeah, Richard Dawkings.
Re: Francis Collins
Used the nifty little box. Apparently, Dr. Collins is not held in high regard here, notwithstanding his scientific awards and accomplishments. Maybe he just “came out of the darkness and into the light”. You know these conversion experiences are dramatic. Collins’ middle name wouldn’t be Paul by any chance? Paul persecutor of Christians, struck by lightning and then becomes the greatest missionary ever.
Good job Silver Fox.
Now the next part. Can you figure out why he’s not held in high regard?
Nobody said that Collins’s scientific accomplishments are anything but good. He’s still highly-regarded as a scientist. Not comparing his genius or accomplishments with Newton, but his Jesus stuff is just as nonsensical as Newton’s alchemy stuff, though Newton had the excuse that in his day it was more normal to believe such things. What remains of good scientists and what makes them is their science, not their bad arguments.
Jesusists bringing up Collins’s scientific credentials is just as dishonest as alchemists bringing up Newton’s scientific credentials.
Quoting fiction as an argument? Well, two can play at that game. Maybe his middle name is ‘Saruman’ – after Saruman, formerly good wizard, seeks the One Ring for himself and becomes evil. Or maybe it’s ‘Anakin’, after Anakin Skywalker who turned to the dark side of the Force.
Andyo @143
“Richard Dawkings.”
Yeah, I know who Dawkins is. I’d probably be better not knowing him, at least, I’d be richer. I bought the God Delusion when it came out instead of waiting for a library copy. He gets into philosophical questions. Unfortunately, I’m not sure Richard would know an authentic philosophical question if he saw one walking down the street.
Actually, I got a better analogy. Newton was known to be kind of an asshole.
Christians bringing up Collins’s credentials is like assholes bringing up Newton’s credentials to justify their assholeness. Everybody has good and bad arguments. Their good arguments suddenly don’t make their bad ones good as well.
haha, you’d be richer? Dude, how many copies or Dawkins’s book did you buy? All of them have the same word, didn’t you know? The ending doesn’t change on the next copy you read.
Attempting to discredit Dawkins’ book this way is exactly what prompted PZ to elaborate on the phenomenon; he called it ‘The Courtier’s Reply’.
Oh PZ you are such a cunt!
WOW @ 151
“Attempting to discredit Dawkins’ book”
It ought to be discredited; its a piece of crap. Dawkins has done good writing, i.e. River out of Eden, the Blind Watchmaker. The Selfish Gene got critical reviews but it wasn’t a piece of crap.
Dawkins reminds me of many successful writers who get to a point in their careers when they think they can just sit at a word processor, turn out crap, and cash in on their reputation.
From Dawkins I want good evolution biology, not bad theology. If I want bad theology I can go listen to one of the Bible waving televangelists.
Which is an opinion you’re entitled to; dismissing it in its entirety because you don’t like the way he went about it, on the other hand, is another thing entirely.
That would imply there’s good theology. There isn’t. There’s only bad theology plus apologetics. If there was good theology there wouldn’t be apologetics.
bad theology
Please. I don’t esteem the book that highly myself, but give us a break. Is a bad review of a play you happened to like ‘bad theatre’?
TGD is not attempting theology. It’s calling into question the whole idea that there can be any valid criteria for judging whether some ideas are good theology or bad. Yes, he brings up some arguments that have been dismissed by theologians, but the point is to show that they’ve simply been dismissed with a wave of the hand. The proposed ‘solutions’ are arbitrary and divergent among believers of the various sects and traditions: exactly what you would expect, if the subject of all this erudition were imaginary.
Silver Fox:
redundant.
Wowbagger,
There are some examples of good theology. Augustine of Hippo’s On the Literal Meaning of Genesis is good theology in that it uses theology to show that creationism is bad theology.
‘Tis Himself,
Fair enough. I will accept that theology has the potential to be relatively good, under certain conditions.
That’s enough Kevin.
Isn’t it just apologetics for less bad theology, though?
“Isn’t it just apologetics for less bad theology, though?”
A good theological discussion with a well educated young lady on a rainy night sitting in a leather chair with a glass of good South African Red; a magnificent way to spend an evening.
What sorts of South African Reds do leather chairs prefer, and how do rainy nights sit? (I kid.)
Posted by: Patricia, OM | January 26, 2009 9:53 PM That’s enough Kevin.
yes yes quite enough but re PZ’s earlier comments also quite necessary…..