The New Zealand department of conservation maintains a network of huts in the backcountry — these are little shelters with a radio for emergency calls and a mattress so hikers can wait out a spell of bad weather. It’s all very sensible. Until the evangelicals discovered them. Now there’s a missionary campaign to put a bible in every one of them, too, since, as the founder of this plan says, “I realised then this was a captive audience.”
I think I’m going to have to move to New Zealand now. The response by hikers to this effort is classic pragmatism. They think it is a fine idea.
“Given the option of a ropey old Reader’s Digest I would rather use a page from a Bible to start a fire.”
Notice how polite he was to avoid mentioning the other use in which the tissue-thin pages of the bible are superior to the thick glossy sheets of Reader’s Digest.
I assume you mean rolling a joint?
Its been my experience that sadly bibles do not burn all that well…
I always like to curl up with a good fantasy book while away camping. Maybe Dragonriders of Pern would make for a better vacation read though.
The threat of ‘Thread’ isn’t as dire as that ‘God’ character.
Anonymous commenting! Woohoo!
Those two uses for bibles are the best that I can think of. Another use would be to tear it up, crinkle the pages, & use them for insulation if it gets cold.
Which of Pharyngula’s readers can think of the most original use for that weird book?
I think I’d wile away the hours by writing in the margins and pointing out the obvious contradictions.
Are there any birds in NZ which would use shredded holy pages for nesting material?
I like the idea of stocking the huts with reading material. It seems that they should have a selection of works by different New Zealand writers.
Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl…
Origami Cranes
Everyone who stays should fold several. When the book is empty and the shelter full of cranes, they should be burned as a peace offering and a new one placed.
Maybe burn the shelter too? That could get pricey.
Richard, I use mine to crush spiders.
Captive audience? Sure.
Waiting out a spell of bad weather; food running out; help won’t come any time soon; a touch of fever; wind howling sounds almost like voices; is there something scratching at the wall on the… other side?
Maybe I’ll read something relaxing. What’s this little black book?
A week later the rescue crew wonders about yet another case of “gone dancing naked around the hut and died of exposure”.
And the dickery. There’s an upside to people putting teh Bible where people will be stuck without other distractions. They will read it, and see what a dick the god it depicts is.
Now there’s a missionary campaign to put a bible in every one of them, too, since, as the founder of this plan says, “I realised then this was a captive audience.”
So he’s admitting that no one would bother with it if they had absolutely anything else in the world to choose instead.
Is my favorite-in-the-future country going to turn into a religious crap hole? Religion festered minds have to despoil everything within sight to further their insanity, and most of the time without a wimper of protest from people who do not want to endure the obvious majority of numbers of the demented. I would like to see the rational among the hikers place a sticker on those shit books, stating among the possible uses:
“Great for starting a fire of the terrestrial kind.”
“Can be used to stuff cracks in the walls because of their thickness in content matter.”
“Can be used to line holes in hiking shoes”.
“Will absorb copious amounts of sputum and nasal efflufient”
“In emergencies, can be used as the epitomy of absorbing the very existence of it’s current content.”
Just back from 3 weeks in Ecuador, and I must say that the one body fluid I did not encounter on the trip was “nasal efflufient.”
Forget using the bible. Tell them to leave consecrated communion wafers at the camp sites. Use the bible to start a fire, and the wafers to… well you know.
Religious missionaries are some of the worst exploiters… they wrap their Jesus complex in a cloak of selfless giving. If any of them were truly and selflessly interested in the plight of those they claim to help, they would never proselytize and manipulate those who are most vulnerable. And while I am sure some of the them are well-meaning in their hearts, they are carriers of a mental disease they are eager to spread.
Fortunately, in the case PZ posted above the hikers are not economically and politically vulnerable so they are able to see past the crass fundie exploitation and make the best use of what would otherwise be a waste of material resources.
Another idea is to add a copy of The Voyage of the Beagle to each hut. Much better reading. And it mentions New Zealand.
I was watching “Mythbusters” last night…how ’bout getting 2 bibles, shuffled pages, and seeing if it takes 4 tons to pull ’em apart? Worked for phone books in CA, USA.
Sven,
I welcomed you back on another thread (the heddle one), but you may not have seen it. How was your trip?
I’d say the Bible pages would be a lot better than the Sear’s catalog, too, except that they are already covered with s**t.
It seems that these people’s biggest piece of self-deception is that anyone who reads their book will automatically align with them. Perhaps they should listen to Penn Jillette — paraphrasing: “Nothing will make you an atheist faster than reading the Bible”.
Nice of them to put some tinder and toilet paper in the caves.
While at the doctor’s one day for something unrelated, I asked him about a painless pea-sized bump on the inside of my wrist. He poked at it for a second, asked me a couple questions, then laughed and told me that it was a harmless fluid-filled cyst that would go away on its own (which it eventually did). I asked him why he laughed, and he told me that back in the day, they used to be called “Bible knots.” Apparently one of the best treatments for bothersome ones used to be to have the sufferer lay his arm down on the doctor’s desk, then let the doctor bash the cyst with a nice heavy hardcover Bible to burst it.
Andrés, don’t bowdlerize. Penn invariably referred to it as “the fucking Bible.” :D
Isn’t this the start of the evangelist’s creed?
@ #1, I can confirm that bible pages do indeed do a fantastic job of that.
Ah, back again. I personally don’t like signing up for anything anywhere anytime (paranoia mostly).
Don’t use bibles for rolling papers, the inks are really toxic, what with heavy metals and suchlike. They are worthless in the outhouse-no absorbency so it just smears everything around. The aforementioned inks limit burning it in any way I would think. Crumpled pages placed between layers of clothing would make excellent insulation and some survival experts recommend it in emergencies (newsprint works good for this, if you’re out of bibles).
I wonder if anyone( other than godless us) ever even lookks through the bibles in hotel rooms and such like. I mean, here you are in (say) New York on vacation. Bible in hotel room- but why would you stay on to read it, wouldn’ t you be doing touristy things? Or drinking or bothering the conceirge or something. Ditto on the hiking. I feel the very purpose of putting those books there is silly- very few peole would red them- the atheists would but that is not a good target audience. Also the new testament “Good News” is sooo boring
Same story told four times- and everyone knows how the heck it ended- and those chapters and the fine print- its dull as ditchwater. Maybe the put Bibles in roomers need to do a good market survey to find out whether people read their crap.
Religious missionaries are some of the worst exploiters… they wrap their Jesus complex in a cloak of selfless giving. (mayhempix @ 18)
Hence Bush’s generous funding of “anti-AIDS efforts” in Africa.
“I assume you mean rolling a joint?”
I’ve seen that done, especially with the real thin type of pages that many bibles have.
I guess if that’s your only choice you can “thank God” a bible was handy.
Unfortunately the taste of burning ink is never pleasurable.
My Father and Myself were on a tramp and we found one of these Bibles. It was wet and cold, we made fire before finding it.
We spent an afternoon doing ‘off key bible delivery’, i.e. reading the serious [sic] bits in a stupid fashion
I don’t know where to put this and get it posted quickly enough. My local TV news station has a poll which needs “adjusting”. Please vote appropriately.
http://www.kltv.com/Global/category.asp?C=7843#poll79927
I think the paper most Bibles are printed on is a little too slick for ass wiping.
My dad told me that hookers in the US put their phone numbers in the back of Gideon bibles in US motel rooms.I didn’t belive him until I toured round the states, and checked. Seeing as prostitiutin is legal in NZ it would be a possible alternate use for the Wholly Babble. (Although these huts are so out of the way, the only available entertainers may be four legged with woolly jumpers!)
You know, there are almost always a good few blank or half-blank pages in there, just due to the practicalities of printing. If you look in the front and back, it’s easy to find a half-blank to roll your joint in.
Agreed though: don’t smoke the ink, it’s both stinky and bad for you. Note, however, that newspapers are mostly all printed with soy ink these days (it’s cheap) and thus not nearly so toxic.
New Zealand, where men are men and sheep are scared.
Allytude, as someone who travels fairly often on business, I invariably pitch the useless thing in the bathroom trash can, where it usually accumulates a layer of disgusting biological waste (feminine products, cotton swabs, lipstick-smeared tissues, and so forth) before the maid picks it up with the next day’s cleaning. Nobody’s ever said anything to me about it and I don’t notice any decline in quality of room cleaning because of it, even in religious havens like coastal Louisiana.
Huts are a bit more than emergency shelters. Many will sleep 12 and are sought after destinations to break a long hike. Though you are advised to always carry a tent since you can never guarantee a hut will be able to accommodate you. They do function as emergency shelters, yes, but they are far more than that.
#5: Hunting. If you have an enormous amount of patience and time, it is possible to make incredibly tough items out of chewed-up paper. One application of this was discovered by prisoners in American high-security prisons: over the course of about a year, using letters they recieved from outside, they could make a little crossbow capable of wrecking someone’s eyeball.
I bet this process would have been limited by the supply of letters. With an entire book in front of you, and with the rsources of the New Zealand bush available to make a suitable string, you could possibly make a fully-functioning mini crossbow easily capable of murdering a good-sized shrew or a kiwi within just a couple of months.
Doesn’t compete though to the time when we spent god-knows-how-many gazzillions of tax payer dollars getting a fucking Tangiwha out of a river……….
Hey, Kenosha Kid @ #9:
Would that be after you get off that big, pretty white plane with red stripes and curtains in the windows and wheels and that looks like a big Tylenol?
Surely you can’t be serious!
Thanks for the laugh, Kid, and
R.I.P., Stephen Stucker, Kentucky Fried Theater lost a crucial spice when you left us…
Those huts are full of Japanese and Scandinavian tourists.
I’ve stayed in many of the larger, more well known ones.
Lots of young people trying to conceal they are having sex in their sleeping bags while Japanese girls blush and single boys squirm around.
I imagined communal sleeping arraignments of yore went much the same.
Perhaps keeping a preacher at each hut ready to condemn at every rustle?
New Zealand? Coudn’t find it in the Bible, therefore NZ doesn’t exist!! Isn’t it obvious?
About the only thing I can see this being useful, is for the nutters to say that there are more Xtians in the world because bible sales will go up.
Having traveled a lot, I’m used to having the bible in hotel room. But I’m also used to having the coffee pots where they brew meth. I’m not a christian, or ever been on a meth trip. So you can see how well those work.
“War Cry” ?
Am I the only one to find it unsettling (and unsubtle)?
I say let em. Any sane person who actually reads the thing would definitely not be a christian after reading it.
Some god-botherers insist that the Bible will not burn.
I have never wiped my ass with pages from the bible. Is the paper absorbent? Does anybody know?
Too thin, slick and non absorbent.
But it’ll do in a pinch.
Japanese audio artist Akifumi Nakajima, who releases his stuff as Aube, found another good use for a Bible. His 1998 album Pages From the Book used the sound of pages of a Bible being torn and manipulated. This is in keeping with what has traditionally been his practice of using a single source for the sounds used on an album, which has ranged from a single voltage controlled oscillator to the sound of water.
WWJWW: What would Jesus wipe with?
Actually, I’m sure this is more information than anyone wishes to hear, but bible pages do make decent toilet paper. Especially those Gideon’s bibles, because I’m not sure what the pages are made of, possibly rice paper, but if you double or even triple up on them, they do a half decent job.
The story…when I was young, my parent’s sent me to a parochial Armenian camp, not realizing that it was a bible camp. Eventually at some point in the first rainy night, a few malcontents that I had befriended decided to collect all the toilet paper and dump it out where it would soak. In any case, many different materials were used the next few days, such as leaves (kinda glossy, so pretty similar to Reader’s digest I think), rags, newspapers, but eventually, I realized I could just take a bible, pretend I was reading it, and just tear out the pages. It didn’t take long before a mutilated bible was found, and my parent’s ended up having to end their freedom from me 5 days early.
Molly, IRK (Ignorant Religious Kook)
“Hence Bush’s generous funding of “anti-AIDS efforts” in Africa.”
I had no idea the anti-aids effort in Africa was an official christian religious missionary project funded by the US government, although it wouldn’t surprise if it was abused as such.
There is a vast difference between being a religious person who promotes funding health initiatives versus using it as a means to inject religious indoctrination. The fact that you don’t understand the difference and probably never will is clear from everything you post.
@Molly NYC
Upon rereading your post it is possible you were being sarcastic about Bush. If that is the case, my sincere apologies. There is a “Molly” who is a religious wingnut and that is to whom I thought I was responding. But if you are that “Molly’, I mean every word of it.
Posted by: Allytude | January 25, 2009
I wonder if anyone( other than godless us) ever even lookks through the bibles in hotel rooms and such like.
Hardly a new idea. Steve Allen, a former host of The Tonight Show, wrote two books about the bible in the early ninties. In the introduction to both books, he claims that these are the results of constant traveling and finding Gideon’s bibles in most of the rooms he stayed in. He finally read them and was appalled at the immorality and barbarism that is to be fond in them.
Reminds me of the Onion article with the headline that went something like “Christians send much-needed Bibles to starving Africans.”
i have checked drawers in hotel rooms and was surprised to discover something other than a gideon bible. (has anyone ever met a gideon, btw?)
i was staying in a hilton. in addition to the bible there were two other books. one was the teachings of buddha. the other was the biography of conrad hilton!
i took the book of buddha. he was a wise philosopher with some rather insightful commentary on human nature. well worth the read.
I’d be tempted to consider it waste to be packed out and disposed of properly. Tempted because the weight and volume could easily be needed for something more important.
Hey all from NZ.
I have to say the place is gorgeous, and the reports of attempts to eradicate religious nuttery are correct, but before you all get on a plane, be aware of a couple things:
-zombie sheep: the place is literally crawling with flesh-eating sheep. Give me a few years to whittle the numbers down first (yay shotgun!) before you attempt to visit.
-brain eating amoebas: most of the waterways are ice cold glacial or snowmelt, and not suitable for swimming. OTOH, there are some nice, geothermal pools that are quite pleasant, if you don’t mind the brain-eating amoebas that infest them.
-sandflies: You think mosquitos are bad? these little bloodsuckers make mosquitos look like butterflies… and there are millions of them infesting just about anywhere you might want to spend time.
-head-raping parrots: Hitchcock would have had nightmares about these seemingly pleasant feathered fellows. No sooner will you be commencing a relaxing stroll down the path, than these horrid beasties will pounce on your head and commence doing unspeakable things to it!
seriously, the place is a pest-ridden, infested backwater swamp!
Save yourselves!
the horror, the horror…
(I’ll be putting up a blog soon to document just how bad it really is, I’ll post back when it’s ready. ITMT, I’ll be cowering in my bunker, shotgun in hand.)
Richard H. (@#5),
I think the weirdest use of that book would be as a guide on how we treat one another.
@SFO:
based on what I’ve seen down here tramping about, I think scott was more likely sharing his own pre-pubescent fantasies.
Ichthyic, long time no hear. Hope you have a couple of kegs in your bunker.
kegs ahoy. seriously, it’s rather nice here. Think I’ll stay a bit.
been on a whirlwind tour the last few weeks, with little time to post.
:)
It seems that a lost fish is finally back in school. Good to see ya.
PZ has obviously watched Gintama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqOnFQThbNc
And they thought the nail in the cracker was heresy…
Ichthyic @ 61
Hell, seems you described some facts on New Zealand that do not make the glossies. Heck, all earthly paradises come with a few reservations, but I still consider New Zealand one of the few ideal spots on Earth. But there is always my backup destination, Norway, of which the choice is well considered.
Not strictly relevant, but there’s a publishing firm near me that used to print maps, until they got caught plagiarizing other publishers material. Now they print Christian material.
I hope this posts, I went and got a TypePad account, and couldn’t do spit with it using either Firefox or Internet Explorer. I could, however, call my TypePad account by any name I chose.
Ichthyic, take your time to get settled. Good to have you back. If you set up a blog, I’m certain most of us would want some pictures. I hear NZ is very pretty.
Yay, anonymous posting, or whatever this is.
Reading it? That’s quite novel, at least amongst Christians.
Hi Ichthyic! Glad to hear you’re back here and doing well there! Take good care of yourself. And take good pix.
Bible pages burn very well, some of the best fire starter I have ever used and adds to the experience of a satisfying campfire. As with newspapers they won’t burn well if the whole collection of bundled pages is just thrown in together. The bible pages are superior to newspaper when starting a fire though. Also, the evil just seems to drain out of the bible pages as they burn, a very rewarding experience I assure you.
“…the immorality and barbarism that is to be fond in them.”
I had no idea Steve Allen was so “fond” of them.
;^ )
Personal Steve Allen anecdote:
Many years ago I was a musician in a band living in Laguna Beach. One day we received a call from a local women’s group wanting to rent our sound system. They were hosting Steve Allen who would travel around and do small shows at local theaters. Allen had a routine where he responded to questions written on index cards from the audience with seemingly spontaneous rapid witty humor. The truth was that Allen would usually arrive at least an hour early and the producer had already prearranged for the cards so Allen had time to sort through them, pick the ones he liked and scribble notes on them for his response.
On this day he was scheduled for two back-to-back shows, arrived late and was not in the best of moods. He rushed onstage with no previous look at the questions, his timing was off and the routine fell flat. Visibly frustrated he grabbed a mike that was for the grand piano onstage and had no “pop” filter. As he proceeded to speak his “Ps” would be exaggerated through the sound system like little bombs going off. Our sound engineer rushed to exchange the mike as fast as he could. With new mike in hand Allen sarcastically asked the women seated in the audience if they had rented the sound system from White Front, the bargain basement store of its day. There was nervous laughter and Allen regained his composure to finish the show.
A consummate musician and composer, Allen usually opened his act by playing and singing one of his compositions. Before the 2nd show started I placed an index card on the center of the piano keyboard with a message that read:
“Well what did you expect for $45?
Signed- the sound crew.”
He walked out, sat down on the piano bench, raised his hands to play and then stopped in mid motion as a big smile broke out on his face. He started laughing uncontrollably as the puzzled audience looked on. Still laughing he picked up the card, strolled to the mike at the front of the stage and told the audience about the previous show and what had transpired. He was in his groove and the 2nd show was Allen at his best.
After the show he warmly shook my hand and congratulated me on my “creative” response.
We never again heard from the women’s group.
Some of the huts are also used by hunters. Could you use the bible pages to clean rifles?
First post, and I get to mention guns and religion!
Reading it? That’s quite novel, at least amongst Christians.
I don’t think they really want anyone to read the Bible – that’s how Madalyn Murray O’Hair got started, remember.
I have experience in this area, using various kinds of books to start fires in remote locations. The bible pages are over-rated. They seem very flammable and like they would make a good fire but they don’t. The pulpy readers digest pages are way better.
On the one hand, I don’t see it as any more offensive than what the Gideons do.
On the other hand, it reminds me a lot of Calvary Chapel’s blatantly illegal spectrum grab when the first round of LPFM station licenses went on the air and CC started distributing massive quantities of satellite programming when they were supposed to be promoting local interests. (And the Gideon bibles all use a crappy translation anyway — the NKJV.)
I don’t know. I did find the part about having some reading material interesting, so how’s this for a package for back country reading:
-Bible (preferably NRSV + Apocrypha)
-Qur’an
-survival guide (SAS, US Army, or something equivalent)
-camp cookbook
-a couple of anthologies of short stories (maybe one volume each of SF, mystery, romance, general literature, with order cards for the hikers to take back to civilization with them)
-a ruggedized netbook computer with a satellite or packet radio uplink and a solar power source for email, news, emergency comm
-a mailbox and packaging supplies for people to ship things back to civilization after they leave
Along with, of course, necessary emergency supplies (and notes to radio or email the nearest central depot in case a restock or mail pickup is needed).
Since the topic is humor, I have a joke.
How are true conservatives like God?
1) Both find ways to ignore the morality they impose on others
2) The meanings either depend on who’s answering
3) Neither exist except in the imagination
explaining comment number 9 in case you slept through the 80s
start at 25sec. if you are in a hurry:
I remember once turning up in a NZ tramping hut to find a stack of Jack Chick comics, so the idea of attempting to capture the tramping readership is not new. I whiled away a happy afternoon adding sarcastic comments in very small print.
“‘War Cry’ ?
Am I the only one to find it unsettling (and unsubtle)?”
– Are they gonna hurt us, Walter?
– No, Donny. These men are cowards.
Welcome ESPnes.
ideas for bible uses?
Following up on ESPness’ comment – maybe as a replacement to spare the endangered Clay Pigeons?
I’ve been thinking of the environment a lot lately. What about the ecologically sound –
“Bibles For Biofuels” – 1 campaign to address the 2 greatest perils to humanity?
for the record – I just steal the Gideons if I find one. You can’t leave that sort of thing around where kids might find it. I just checked here, no bibles but there was a hair-drier.
Yesterday my students gave me a parting gift. My very own God. I gotta admit, I was rapt. Most appropriate that it was Ganeesh ;)
I don’t know where to put this and get it posted quickly enough. My local TV news station has a poll which needs “adjusting”. Please vote appropriately.
http://www.kltv.com/Global/category.asp?C=7843#poll79927
I used to live in that hellhole known as Tyler. It’s the main reason I will never, ever return to East Texas. I wonder if it’s still a “dry” city. Had to drive 20 miles to get a bottle of tequila. Not even any good brands, all cheap-ass crap. Of course, you could always get a drink in town, if you were willing to pay for a membership. And if you were willing to pay double what any other cities pay per drink for some watered down hooch.
And KLTV is the TV station that wouldn’t show Soap back in the 70s because the owners thought it was too vulgar and profane.
Tyler is also where Garner Ted Armstrong went to rejuvenate his ministry (for who knows which umpteenth time). Why? Because only East Texas yokels would be so fucking god-deluded that they’d let that womanizing snake charmer preach at them, even if it meant none of their mothers, wives or daughters were safe from his adventurous hands. And I know where from about his womanizing and those hands, since he hit on me and a friend of mine. At the same time. But he was a man of the loooooord, so we had to be lying about that, right?
I hate that fucking place.
I usually accepted bibles handed out in the street for this exact purpose. Beats every other solid in igniting a nice campfire. Or BBQ, for that matter.
The appeal of New Zealand, I feel, is quite real, and
A trip there is certainly plannable.
But I wish that the mission’ries ditched their position re:
Putting up fights for the cannibals.
Ooh, I live here too, now, since August. Them head raping parrots also like to eat all the rubber off your car if you have a car and if you parked it nearby. And yes there are heaps of sheep. Of course, in my town I don’t need a car cause the bus system is really good. About the only thing that’s really brutal is the sun.
But, um, yeah, stay away from the horrors of NZ, y’all.
PZ you bring typical closure to your argument without actually considering the meaning of its significance.
or, are you just leaving it up to us?
ok, so why would i rather skin up with a bible leaf as opposed to a sheet of Readers Digest? Well, I’m no expert so, as you, I’ll leave it up to the more experienced.
#42
Yes, those darn savages, demanding respect for their stupid, backward culture when white men deign to give them a taste of sivilization! They should just be grateful we allow them to remain on the Island at all.
#86 re KLTV;
This is a headline;
That’s so wtf…
I am beginning to detect a hint of insincerity.
Origami… hmm… folding pigasuses?
JC
When I was a kid we’d wear old 2-litre plastic icecream containers on our heads as protection against parrot head-rape while we were walking to and from school.
No shit? (I got here late, sorry) No walkabout party worth it’s jandals is going to go without their bowls knowing the paper stand ready if they are without a bidet.
#86
Why do you think he was a man of the Lord? In my experience ‘men of the Lord’ are mostly in the ministry for the swooning women and lots of money. I even know a guy who sang in the choir solely to get women(of course,he was already married).
BTW, on the poll “teach evolution” is now leading at 44%.
OK – so it takes about 3 minutes per point to adjust the poll. I spent an hour on it if anybody else want to take over after I doubled the number and put evilution in the lead by a “bit”.
Andres #23:
“It seems that these people’s biggest piece of self-deception is that anyone who reads their book will automatically align with them. Perhaps they should listen to Penn Jillette — paraphrasing: “Nothing will make you an atheist faster than reading the Bible”.”
The Bible-pushers quote Isaiah 55:11; “My (God’s) word shall not return unto Me void, …” (KJV), with the assumption that “My word” refers to the Bible, and that any effect it will have will be beneficial to the “cause of Christ”.
(All evidence to the contrary is obviously a “strong delusion”. (II Thessalonians 2:11))
There aren’t any New Zealand writers (perhaps Katherine Mansfield and Ngaio Marsh excluded) so there wouldn’t be much of a selection of NZ writers available, Janine (comment #8). New Zealand and culture very rarely ever occur in the same sentence (we have returned to anonymous comments haven’t we?).
I imagine the Kia (the alpine parrot) would appreciate the bible as a nesting material, although it would also probably like it as a toy. Kias are very destructive of camping equipment, car aerials, door seals etc.
Yes, Charles Darwin did visit New Zealand on the Beagle (Sven diMilo comment #19; how did the trip to the Galapagos Islands go?), but he didn’t like it much; “I believe we were all glad to leave New Zealand. It is not a pleasant place”. It hasn’t changed much since then.
I’d probably carve out a nice square in the middle of the bible and place a granola bar or other treat inside for the next person to come along.
What’s with all this nonsense about parrots attacking people’s heads?
I quote from Wiki “Kakapo are critically endangered; only 90 living individuals are known,[5] all of which have been given names.[6] The common ancestor of the Kakapo and the genus Nestor became isolated from the remaining parrot species when New Zealand broke off from Gondwana, around 82 million years ago. around 70 million years ago, the kakapo diverged from the genus Nestor.[7][8][9] In the absence of mammalian predators, it lost the ability to fly. Because of Polynesian and European colonisation and the introduction of predators such as cats, rats, and stoats, most of the Kakapo were wiped out. Conservation efforts began in the 1890s, but they were not very successful until the implementation of the Kakapo Recovery Plan in the 1980s. As of January 2009, surviving Kakapo are kept on two predator-free islands, Codfish (Whenua Hou) and Anchor islands, where they are closely monitored.”
I can understand that a ‘flightless bird’ might actually be able to develop enough lift to reach head height, but come on, they’re confined to two small islands & there are only a few of them. You’re either having us on, or there’s another parrot species, maybe recently introduced.
there is one beauty in this. the missionaries will continue replacing the books at the church’s expense. Is thee a chance they will have been printed in a “civilised” country where they use hemp paper so as to lower the carbon footprint of what you just walked in?
Andres, #23,
“It seems that these people’s biggest piece of self-deception is that anyone who reads their book will automatically align with them. Perhaps they should listen to Penn Jillette — paraphrasing: “Nothing will make you an atheist faster than reading the Bible”.”
The Bible pushers often quote Isaiah 55:2; “My (God’s) word shall not return unto me void, …” (KJV), making the assumptions that the “word” is the modern Bible, and that the guaranteed results will further the “Gospel”.
Any evidence to the contrary will necessarily be the result of a “strong delusion”. (II Thess. 2:11, KJV)
I actually read the New Testament for the first time while snowed in in Pioneer Hut atop Fox Glacier, once I’d exhausted all the other possibilities on the bookshelf. I remember an overwhelming feeling coming over me. It went something like, “This? This is what all these people get all worked up over?”
Of course, if they were serious about doing good works, they would place food or emergency thermal blankets in the huts. They could even label them as a gift from such and such church/missionary.
But as usual, these idiots have never had any concern for the *actual* welfare of the people they proselytise.
My great great uncle was one of the first licensed electricians in Oklahoma and was given the honor of installing lights in the latrines for the Choctaw Nation.
(here it comes)
He was the first to wire a head for a reservation.
*ducks as shoes fly at him*
Perhaps, Richard Harris, the groundling parrots were attacking a different type of head…
Ahh, there are few things as fine as dropping by at PZ’s on a lazy Sunday afternoon and find one’s growing smile erupt into laughter.
Thank you PZ! You’re terrific!
Big John,
It’s nice to know there are other Pharyngulites (Pharyngulists?) in East Texas. I was living in Tyler when the movie “Amadeus” came out. Both in Tyler and in neighboring city Longview, the theaters took it upon themselves to cut the scene where Scalieri throws his crucifix in the fireplace and renounces god. Er, okay.
Wish I could think that attitudes have changed . . . but I’m sure they haven’t.
Glad you liked the article I sent you…
It made me smile as well!
Heck, if those huts are so hard up for reading material, I could take up a collection of softcover fiction that gets donated to the library I work in and send them to NZ.
Is that even legal? I’m all for the right to remix but Hollywood and law makers tend not to be.
I wonder of PZ’s closing sentence was inspired by the linked-to article’s opening one:
“The word of God was originally delivered from on high and a Christchurch woman is attempting to take it back there.”
Geez, ignorance rules supreme. This is supposed to be a blog for people who know how to reason, read, think–and spell:
Circe @42, It’s TANIWHA, not Tangiwha. You’re as pig-ignorant about the spelling as you are about the incident. Gazillions of dollars? Gazillions of fucking rednecks. All it needed to have cost was some respect for local Maori custom and some willingness to consult instead of the usual Pakeha ‘full-steam-ahead-and-lets-run-a-bulldozer-through your-ancestral-sites.’
Wayne @98: It’s a KEA, not a Kia, which is a sad little car. You’re lucky if you only get your head humped–Kea (plural also) perch on live sheep and snack on the run.
And Wayne, if there are no NZ writers, how come we’re constantly inundated by students from the Northern Hemisphere wanting to study the likes of Witi Ihimaera (Whale Rider), Patricia Grace, Keri Hulme, Lloyd Jones (Booker shortlist), Frank Sargeson, Janet Frame (Nobel nominee), Elizabeth Knox, Allen Curnow, James K. Baxter, Margaret Mahy, Joy Cowley, Carl Shuker etc. etc.
But yes–for all of you–NZ is a horrible place! An open cesspit full of yokels who think a long-drop toilet is the height of sophistication. DON’T come here, you will hate it. As for sandflies: they weren’t here when Cook explored the place. Wonder who introduced them?
@Richard Harris (#101):
The head-attacking parrots Ichthycic was referring to would have been kea, which live in the South Island mountains and have distinctly carnivorous tendencies. One trick of theirs which hasn’t exactly endeared them to the local farmers is to hook their feet into the wool on sheep’s backs and peck at the flesh above the kidneys to get at the fat. Some of their victims develop blood poisoning and die; the kea then scavenge on the carcasses.
I hasten to add it’s only a minority of birds that do this, but for many years there was a bounty on them. Now there are only a few thousand left, and they’re protected. They’re very clever birds, and will investigate any potential new food source. Many a tourist has returned to their cars to find the rubbers on their windscreen wipers shredded (as Ms. Kate NZ has noted). Haven’t heard of too many attacking humans (unless maybe when defending their nests), but give them time, and they’ll probably work out a way of adding us to their diets…
Richard Harris (comment #101),
Without bothering to look up all the details (and some of it is a little controversial, whether New Zealand had been completely under water 30 million years ago, before it reformed, or whether 1% of it had remained dry after New Zealand originally separated from Australia). Birds in New Zealand filled virtually all the ecological niches. The only land based mammals were two species of bats. The flightless birds just adopted the niches that mammals would have filled. After the Maoris and later the Europeans entered New Zealand, many of the native bird species were wiped out. Some reckon it was introduced pests such as rats that did it. I think that it is more probable that humans ate a lot of the birds out of existence, such as the various moa species. The various kiwis managed to survive because they were small enough not to be a prized food source, and because their eggs were large enough not to be convenient size for introduced predators.
There are plenty of flying birds in New Zealand (although they are also be affected by the introduced Australian possum) and there are also introduced flying birds too, such as the black swan and the Australian magpie. As an aside there is an old comic strip “Footrot Flats” set in NZ, which has a magpie as one of its characters. When I’d first read this strip, I’d imagined that there was a NZ magpie species, which was particularly bad tempered, aggressive and malicious, and was surprised the first time I went to NZ to find that it was just the very friendly, good natured and playful Australian magpie.
Richard Harris (comment #101),
Without bothering to look up all the details (and some of it is a little controversial, whether New Zealand had been completely under water 30 million years ago, before it reformed, or whether 1% of it had remained dry after New Zealand originally separated from Australia). Birds in New Zealand filled virtually all the ecological niches. The only land based mammals were two species of bats. The flightless birds just adopted the niches that mammals would have filled. After the Maoris and later the Europeans entered New Zealand, many of the native bird species were wiped out. Some reckon it was introduced pests such as rats that did it. I think that it is more probable that humans ate a lot of the birds out of existence, such as the various moa species. The various kiwis managed to survive because they were small enough not to be a prized food source, and because their eggs were large enough not to be convenient size for introduced predators.
There are plenty of flying birds in New Zealand (although they are also badly affected by the introduced Australian possum) and there are also introduced flying birds too, such as the black swan and the Australian magpie. As an aside there is an old comic strip “Footrot Flats” set in NZ, which has a magpie as one of its characters. When I’d first read this strip, I’d imagined that there was a NZ magpie species, which was particularly bad tempered, aggressive and malicious, and was surprised the first time I went to NZ to find that it was just the very friendly, good natured and playful Australian magpie.
Richard Harris,
They’re talking about the Kea, not the Kakapo.
Oops,
Sorry about the double posting. I have got to stop spelling words phonetically. “Kea” instead of “kia”.
Wayne, your ‘friendly, good natured and playful Australian magpie’ is another introduced pest responsible for driving many native birds out of their traditional nesting areas. It is also renowned for attacking people, frequently causing injury. My local city council will help eliminate them. Quote: ‘if a member of the public is being attacked by magpies on Council or private land and injury is likely.’
I lived in America for a while–it was tempting based on my short residency to expound loudly and knowledgeably about how quaint/funny/paranoid American society was–but I knew there was plenty I didn’t know, and that to broadcast my ill-informed opinions would be arrogant and bad mannered.
The NZ parrot referred to is the Kea, a very intelligent alpine parrot.
I have seen them pulling car windscreen wipers apart for fun, and also sliding down a snow-covered roof on their butts before hitting the gutter and flying back with raucous cries to have another turn. I have never heard about head-rape before, but I wouldn’t put it past them.
Take a look here at this wonderful bird: http://www.doc.govt.nz/conservation/native-animals/birds/land-birds/kea/
“There are six native New Zealand parrot species, these being the Kakapo, Kea, Kaka, Antipodes Island Parakeet, Red-crowned Kakariki and Yellow-crowned Kakariki.”
-NEW ZEALAND PARROTS Part I Their Present Status and Distribution by Martin Fingland
Wayne Robinson @98 & Janine @ 8:
Wayne, perhaps I should show your post to Keri Hulme, who is active on the blogosphere? She’d bash your head in :-) For those who don’t know, Keri is a NZ Booker prizewinner.
Janine, it’s fairly common for people to leave whatever old novel they carried in at the hut once they’re done with it. Some huts in particular have gathered small libraries of sorts. I think to some extent this has changed with the “tourist invasion”, the bigger huts on the main tracks (aka bush highways”) have a quite different character. (I’m not especially keen on them, at least during the main season.) At lot of huts used to have war comics in particular for some reason. Perhaps because they were small, light. (And burnt well!) Remember those?
Most NZ writing I find a bit of a nuisance to be honest, kind of stuck in a rut. Too many weak attempts at what I’d call “semi-classic literature” and not enough genuine attempts to branch out onto whatever the writer finds is their thing. (Although over the last, say, five years I’ve been noticing a little more of people trying other genres more: there seems to be a general comment that the writing is too much of a sameness and people are taking note, perhaps?) There are plenty of writers here, though, a few of them not bad.
@101: He’s probably referring to Kea, which are also parrots and can certainly fly. Attacking people’s heads is nonsense, but they love to play with items and can be quite destructive little clowns, e.g. leaving anything outside when Keas are around is a bad idea.
Thanks for the replies about NZ parrots. I’d only heard of the kakapo, so I’ve learned something. I guess I could’ve just googled for parrots & NZ, but I can’t seem to develop a habit for doing that.
Monty Python’s Norwegian Blue doesn’t sound quite so crazy now!
Another great use for the bible is to read all the begets instead of counting sheep. (The Book of Mormon is purportedly useful as a soporific, at least according to Chris Hitchens)
I did once use a page out of Revelations to roll a cigarette of the dubious herbal kind. Then I realized I had torn a page out a perfectly cool hallucinatory story! Should’ve used a page out of Numbers or something. Oh well, Bibles are as easy to acquire as gonnorhoea.
Conscientious backpackers pick up trash found along the way and get rid of it at the end. That’s what I’d do with the Bibles.
January 25th is Robert Burns Day, so bookcrossers are out releasing Robert Burns books in appropriate locations.
* On a small hill above Loch Ness
* Inside a reconstructed iron age roundhouse at a local community-owned woodland
* with the Red, Red Roses
* in a local supermarket to be given to one of the Haggis-buying customers
Hi HappyKiwi,
That’s the trouble. Everything we see and accept as natural has changed in some way, just by us being there. Of course humans are destructive, just by introducing ourselves (and other species) into ecosystems alien to us.
The comment about the “playful” Australian magpie is meant to be ironic; it is well known to be aggressive (ie protective) at nesting time. The magpie just does what is natural to itself. It has been said that the magpie swoops small children at nesting time because they throw sticks and stones at their nests, but that isn’t true. I have seen magpies swoop preferentially dogs instead of children, and this actually makes sense. When the young magpie leaves the nest, it spends most of its time on the ground. The adults are around to feed and protect the young, so it tries to move any other threatening animal out of its territory. It really doesn’t want to hit the animal it is swooping because it will come out second best. From above, the human’s outline is small and in the magpie’s small brain that equals short. What it wants to do is to swoop down just above the head of its “victim” and then beat its wings to create a loud sound and startle its victim. It is probably just as surprised to find that its human victim is much taller than expected.
Yes New Zealand has changed because of human introduced species. So has Australia. So has Europe. So has North America. So has…
I think the more likely parrot perp would be the kaka (Nestor meridionalis).
When I was growing up, my family like most was too poor to afford 2 litres of ice-cream at once (luxury!). When we went to school we had to attach four-foot long streamers to our ordinary hats, and carry a red flag on a stick to repel the kaka’s unwelcome advances.
They’ll steal your lunch at nature reserves too. Even if you’ve been warned – they’re quick.
BRAWL BRAWL BRAWL
So THE SPELLING is “KEA”.
Ok.
And now my smile has once more sagged into a frown.
Anybody understand what’s positively relevant anymore? Correction, YEAH. Good. Move on.
One thing to remember about New Zealand. They filmed Lord of the Rings there. Whenever the producers wanted orcs they’d hire local inhabitants to play them.
Would you want to visit a place infested with Orcs?
I don’t think magpies are that easily fooled. They will come back for several more goes at you. And they swoop bicycle riders, who have a bigger profile. People here wear bicycle helmets with spikes made of cable ties; or carry umbrellas to deter them. Local council puts up warning signs.
I love them anyway; they are gorgeous birds with a wonderful song. And if you live near a nest of them, those birds will learn that you are no threat. Especially if you feed them.
In the nesting season I wouldn’t leave home without my kaka helmet.
I don’t know if the kaka is the likely perpetrator (nowadays its range is rather reduced), but we should (apparently) be thankful that the New Zealand eagle (aka the giant eagle) also went extinct too, either because its prey (the moa) went extinct too or because the Maoris in self defence wiped it out. Its method of attack on a prey would be very frightening to a moa sized human, as apparently the giant eagle occupied the same niche as a lion, as the top predator.
Tell them they can put a Bible in, if they also supply a Koran, a sample of the Hindu holy books (which can be great reads), Chinese texts on Tao, and Bhubbest sutras. And, of course, texts on the native Maori beliefs. And, of course some Stephan Hawking books. A book on wilderness survial might be good too.
What else can people suggest.
Ted @ 121: there’s also the orange-fronted kakariki, thought for many yeras to be a colour morph of the yellow-crowned, but now recognised as a species in its own right. It’s critically endangered and confined to a couple of valleys in the South Island and one island where it’s been introduced.
Tis Himself @ 130: It’s OK as long as you keep clear of Orcland.
The nocturnal flightless parrots (such as kakapo) have been known to head-rape humans while they’re sleeping, hence the warnings to always use a sleeping bag with a drawstring hood when in kakapo country. Unfortunately, the kakapo are so endangered that this is no longer a common danger on the mainland.
Many nesting birds will swoop at anyone too near their nest during nesting time. They know how tall you are.
Folks. The dreaded head-raping parrot of New Zealand is real. Nine months to the day after my last visit to New Zealand, I developed a terrible and thundering headache. Then my head exploded. And a parrot was born. I named it Athena. But it escaped into the wild. Now head-raping parrots are spreading across North America. Particularly in the Pacific Northwest. Don’t go outside without a helmet.
Hi Ichthyic! We’ve missed you. If you see any elves please send pictures.
Head raping parrots?
It’ll be drop bears next I tell you.
Louis
Actually now you mention it (Buffybot #136), maybe it is kakapo that are Ichthycic’s head-raping parrots. Back in the 70s the only known population was in Fiordland, where the only birds were a few old males. They were so sex-starved, having not seen a female in years, that when researchers bundled up a green Swandri (a NZ garment like a heavy woven wool pullover) and put it on the courtship display arena of one bird (actually I think this may have been done a few times) the poor guy attempted to mate with it.
Fortunately a larger population, with females, was discovered on Stewart Island in 1977.
Hi Wayne Robinson,
Sorry–you didn’t deserve my grumpy replies to your posts. I appreciate your irony.
I was tumbled off my bike by a magpie while cycling in the Wairarapa. There was a smart thump on my helmet and a flash of black and white feathers. Then it turned and came straight back at me. I veered too quickly and went over my handlebars. Then it was 10 km back to my car, bleeding all the way. Speaking of NZ writers–the cry of the Magpie features in one of New Zealand’s most famous 20th C poems by Denis Glover (see http://pssm.ssc.govt.nz/1999/papers/bmanhire.asp). It’s set in the depression, which probably makes it topical:
The Magpies
When Tom and Elizabeth took the farm
The bracken made their bed,
And Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
The magpies said.
Tom’s hand was strong to the plough
Elizabeth’s lips were red,
And Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
The magpies said.
Year in year out they worked
While the pines grew overhead,
And Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
The magpies said.
But all the beautiful crops soon went
To the mortgage-man instead,
And Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
The magpies said.
Elizabeth is dead now (it’s years ago)
Old Tom went light in the head:
And Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
The magpies said.
The farm’s still there. Mortgage corporations
Couldn’t give it away.
And Quardle oodle ardle wardle doodle
The magpies say.
You see what we did there folks? We Antipodeans STOLE Ichthyic from you. Next it’s going to be the Rev Big Dumb Chimp, Patricia and PZ himself. And we’re going to keep on stealing you one by one. We’re not going to stop I tell ya, not until we’ve decimated your population and nicked all your intelligensia.
I see the future of the US and it’s a future of a country solely populated by Ken Ham, Fred Phelps, the two George Bushs and that idiot that has a hard on for bananas.
The banana idiot is of course a kiwi, and Ken Ham’s an Aussie. This hardly seems fair on America that they should get all our garbage.
Waterloo, Ichythyic!
Big talk there, Bride. Like to see if you can pull it off.
And if you can pull it off, could you give me a place to crash. And a cot. My back cannot handle the floor anymore.
Ray Comfort is a New Zealander!? Well, there goes my backup plan of migrating to New Zealand, in case it ever came to be revealed (and this is top secret, don’t tell anyone this) that Ken Ham is an Australian. No, on second thoughts, Ken Ham is much much worse than Ray Comfort, he only has to say one word and he grates on my nerves already.
Ooh! Ooh! Bride, take me! And the missus-to be, too. She’s naturally not a slut of your calibre (see, I can spell it “right”!), but she adds welcome colour (yes!) to the scene. And we’s got some book lernin’ too! Almost a degree between us!
[/McCain winning scenario]
I think I’ll stay a bit and see what this Obama fellow can do. But just in case, I’ll buy a Kea/kaka helmet any way.
Look at it this way, Wayne. Ray Comfort may have been born in NZ, but he had to move to the US to find an environment he was comfortable in. But yes, we can breed loonies here same as anywhere else, and they don’t all emigrate.
Would you really want to soil your ass with the pages of the bible? I mean, aren’t there cleaner things to wipe you ass with?
And what would that be in NZ? A really, really angry weka?
“Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war…”
— Popular US church song.
What? That’s what Wikipedia says? What utter tripe! There were no parrots in the fucking Campanian!
Nestor notabilis is the kea. Don’t worry, though. Like the kaka, it’s incapable of rape. Not being paleognaths, galliforms or anseriforms, parrots have no penis. However, unlike the kakapo (Strigops habroptilus), it is not flightless.
The other way around: you’ve got to stop mispronouncing words…
Over 30% of New Zealanders reported themselves as “no religion” at the last census, and the number goes up every time.
First post! Just got back from PZ’s talk at University of Calgary.
Paper is useful for all sorts of things when in the bush including calls to nature. I can’t think of anything better than a bible when toilet paper isn’t available.
BTW, I’m on an anti-missionary campaign of sorts. When I travel I swap out Gideons for copies of the God Delusion. I just picked up a bunch in Phoenix for $3 a piece.
Talking about missionaries, just got
Don’t Sleep, There Are Snakes
by
Daniel L. Everett.
http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Sleep-There-Are-Snakes/dp/0375425020/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_4
Missionary goes up the Amazon to convert the Pirahã,
comes back as an atheist
Should be good reading.
salon_1928, just saw your post at #153:
< BTW, I'm on an anti-missionary campaign of sorts. When I travel I swap out Gideons for copies of the God Delusion. I just picked up a bunch in Phoenix for $3 a piece.>
Nice work!
Welcome.
You can rig up the big, heavy ones into pretty decent mousetraps.
Said mousetraps, however, will not be irreducibly complex.
Has anyone here met a committed Christian who’s read the Bible cover to cover?
I’ve met many a Christian, but never one who has.
Oh how I would love it if you did move to New Zealand.
I hope that some day you will come, perhaps give some talks or something.
Would be great to get some real organization going among atheists here, and there are a lot.
One fun group to criticize is Destiny Church. There are rumours that they have plans to start up their own entirely self-contained religious ‘city’ here. They’ve also had high profile protests where they’ve spewed their hate towards homosexuals. Their leader Brian Tamaki appointed himself a bishop, he also said that they’d be the ruling government party of New Zealand by 2008, never happened.
There used to be a great website that mocked them, called Density Church, but I believe Destiny Church forced it to be taken down.
Off topic, but I do know how Pharyngulites love their polls.
Is this tree an image of Jesus?
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8303977&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1
Bride of Shrek, Empress of Sluts –
My slutty goodness is ready to go…it’s the thought of the Amethyst Pythons in the chook house that makes me shiver.
Cuttlefish (comment #159), have voted. At the moment “No” is slightly in the majority, but I can understand why the couple who owns the tree would want to believe that the tree does bear an image of Jesus. They are being threatened with eviction if they don’t pay their mortgage of $84000 immediately (they can’t). To me, it seems rather silly. If the mortgage company wants its money, it certainly isn’t going to get it now by foreclosing and selling the property. Who would be wanting to buy a relatively modest house in the vicinity of Flint, Michigan now in the middle of Winter? What is likely to happen, is that the mortgage company will have possession of an empty house which won’t be bringing in any money, but will just be deteriorating all the while.
Patricia,
Yet another great thing about NZ is that there are no snakes.
Head raping parrots are about as dangerous as it gets.
I like to rip the last page out of the bibles in motel rooms and leave a POPE card tucked inside where the cleaning staff will miss it, but someone flicking through it won’t..
http://s23.org/wiki/Pope_Card
I just love the Kiwi’s and their subtle sense of humour… :-)
OT , but his poll needs reinforcements:
http://news.aol.com/article/obamas-nonbeliever-nod-unsettles-some/316339
From time to time, people leave bibles (or Jack Chick comics) in the shelters on the Appalachian Trail. These often end up in the privies, being put to use.
BoSOM @ 143,
I CAN HAZ NAKED BUNNY?
Yes, kea will steal stuff but being uncommon you are unlikely to have trouble from them. The bird you will have such trouble with is the weka Gallirallus australis a flightless rail a bit bigger than a chicken but with longer legs. They will go for anything shiny, like fishing lures even if still attached to fishing rods and anything that might be construed as ‘worm like’ such as shoe laces. I once spent a frustrating time trying to put up a tent while beating of persistent weka who fancied tent pegs and/or guy ropes.
For crying out loud, it’s only a book! In fact I’ve heard that people of faith tend to live longer. Maybe one of these stranded hikers will pick it up, read a few passages from it, and become “enlightened” so to speak, preventing he/she from otherwise dying of starvation.
All kidding aside, it’s funny that most of you would support the idea of “swapping out” bibles for The God Delusion or even The Evolution of Species. What hypocrisy! It’s not like they’re trying to place statues of Jesus in these places. Many of you also probably claim to be “pro choice”, but you’re sure as hell not when it comes to what people choose to believe in (or not believe, in this case).
The Bible has killed no one. That’s not to say that corrupt leaders haven’t used it as an excuse to do just the opposite though. Spend your time focusing on something meaningful instead of this petty “My God/No God” nonsense.
Otto@154: Isn’t that “Professor of Linguistics who is also a Christian goes to study Pirahã and somewhat influenced by the people later becomes an atheist”?
Preaching to the Pirahã is funnier though: “Jesus fed the crowd of (many) using only (many) loaves and (many) fishes”….*unimpressed stares*
True.
But what has been made out of that book(or shall we say,collection of bronze age myths),what its symbolic meaning is in todays western world,even the fact that there is one in every single fucking hotel room,tells you that its just not “just a book”.Its what religionists from the shrewdest televangelist to Pope Palpatine use to justify the indoctrination and stupefication of large parts of the polulation.
So no,its not “just a book”.
Petty nonsense that this neat little book leads by proxy to the death of AIDS and preventable diseases in Africa?To the teaching of rubbish instead of science? To teen pregnancy and child rape?To wars in the name of and justified by that “just a book” book?
blockquote>The Bible has killed no one.
Nice try.
The Bible provides evil people with a framework on which to base their exploitation of the deluded,simple-minded and gullible,and it is therefore not “just a book” .
Yes, it’s only a book. But too many people think it is magical.
Doubletalking hypocrite? What do you think is the purpose of distributing bibles like this? Maybe to try and influence those who find them with that magic? Even though they have no idea who those may be or whether they might find them offensive? I know I would.
A number of comments have suggested alternative, more meaningful actions than this, such as placing emergency rations and other useful things in the huts. The effort and cost would be comparable; the utility far higher; much more efficient use of resources.
Malcolm@162 “Yet another great thing about NZ is that there are no snakes.”
That St. Patrick got about, didn’t he?
Not sure if this has been mentioned…but in general it would be no problem if the Atheists creed was also available….
In cases of embarrassing personal emergency I would wager that the bible would still be the favourite choice of toiletry article seeing as it is a “Tissue” of wishful thinking…apart from providing a thicker dispensable holder of sanitary wipes! ;-)
Wayne @ #161–
You are less cynical than I am. I don’t think they “believe the tree does bear an image of Jesus” so much as believe that enough others will believe it that they can pass the plate via national media and get a way out of their situation.
I think that I shall never see
A scam like Jesus in a tree
A Christ in hardwood, there reposed,
Where someone’s house will be foreclosed.
The owners of the house are clear
A miracle is happening here—
A sign of something good to come
To folks who need a hefty sum.
These folks say they would never flip
For Christ in a potato chip;
A sandwich, too, would just be odd—
This tree, though, is an act of God.
And churches, now, will pass the plate
And funds will come before too late;
Cos only God could make a tree
A self-fulfilling prophecy.
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2009/01/pareidolia-2.html
The Bible has killed no one. – MK
Haw! Haw! Haw! Good one!
Oh. You were serious???? Well, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hasn’t killed anyone either – books don’t, you know – but it has inspired many murders. Nowhere near the number the Bible has, though.
I haven’t read the whole thread, but surely I’m not the only one here that knows how to make a “Hotel bong” with one of those things?
Kidding or not, I’m pretty sure that’s the dumbest thing I’ll read today. It’s early here but that’s a strong contender.
Now THAT’s thinking rationally.
Can confirm the lack of both decent fire-starting and bum wiping material in most Doc huts in NZ. TY evangelical tramper types. P.S Could you please print on a more absorbent paper in future.
Of course it hasn’t killed anyone – why would a religious zealot bludgeon somebody to death with that tome when a sword, pointy stick, or gun is well within reach?
My grandfather, a very good MD, actually treated me with this technique when was a kid. Though he used a nice heavy medical anatomy book instead of the bible, worked pretty well.
How much nutrition can one derive from rice paper? That, and it’s not like these people are stranded for weeks at a time without food… they’re hikers, and storms don’t last THAT long. Unless you actually believe the beginning of the books we’re talking about.
Ah the old, “guns don’t kill people – people kill people” rubric.
The Bible has killed no one, it’s the believers just happen to use the bible to justify killing others who disbelieve or interpret texts differently”
Next, MK is going to claim that the sectarian violence in Ireland has nothing to do with the bible.
“if the Atheists creed was included…”
The atheist’s creed — “There is No God; go enjoy your life”– wouldn’t clean your ass or roll up a joint.
@ #2: Perhaps you aren’t trying hard enough??
185*
“The atheist’s creed — “There is No God; go enjoy your life”– wouldn’t clean your ass or roll up a joint.”
From the point of view of considering the controversy it would be only fair!
Methinks the bible is the favourite for ass wiping… nose blasting…joint rolling and fire starting…although maybe not all at the same time..even the bible has limits…even though the religiously afflicted deny the fact!
The Bible has a hunting guide? I don’t remember those scriptures… oh, wait maybe you’re thinking about the “how to beg” sections.
If worse came to worse, it could be used to whack critters in the head.
If you are alluding to some mystical “food for the soul,” I can assure you no one ever died of spiritual starvation, although you seem to have a case of intellectual scurvy.
@ IST #183
My guess is that MK #169 tried to make a (lame) joke with reference to Siddharta’s enlightenment, when he sat under a tree for a long time (months or even years IIRC) fasting. That’s when he became a bodhi, as the original Buddha. (No, not MK.-) Not a lot to do with rice paper.
I could be wrong though. Happens a lot.
My brother has read the whole thing cover-to-cover and still believes, but 1) we’re talking about Roman Catholicism here, not some sola scriptura literalist Protestant sect; 2) when asked if he wants to become a priest, he always says his faith isn’t strong enough for that…
Nope. SIL International is a missionary organization.
Results:
Matt Heath @170,
Isn’t that “Professor of Linguistics who is also a Christian goes to study Pirahã and somewhat influenced by the people later becomes an atheist”?
The very same.
Yup! Back when I was still a LIGS (Lutheran in good standing) we had a Gideon at the service every couple of months. He always set up a bible display in the narthex and used his part of the sermon time (carefully not overstaying his welcome by sucking up more time than alloted, though, thankfully) for drumming up special offerings to keep the hotels/motels of the world bible-equipped.
@Rrr>
Since I wrote that while trying to ignore the incessant chattering of my godbot co-worker, it’s very possible it was a joke and I missed it.
IST, if it was meant as a joke, as I suspected, it was not much of one. Just as well to let it slide by, on its way to nothingness…
Cuttlefish @
Should it be?
I mean, wouldn’t placing Jesus, their lord and savior, in every piece of burnt toast, roadside squirrel carcass, and water-stained concrete wall help mock and demean the intended meaning?
He’s our lord and savior and he’s in the bird poo on my windshield. I’m not sure that’s what they have in mind, but you never know. You never know.
That’s why I’m at a quandry on how to vote. It does look like an old pedophile of some sort, but I can’t say it was definitely Jesus. Charles Manson, maybe?
I thought they meant to use the Bible pages to wipe their ass after a good dump. Oh, well, burning the Bible to keep warm is just as good.
Those Babbles with onion skin paper would be really good for TP as well. Surely someone’s already mentioned this…
I sure wish they made absorbent Bible or Quran toilet paper.
little shelters with a radio for emergency calls and a mattress so hikers can wait out a spell of bad weather
If you are expecting a radio and a mattress in every back-country shelter in NZ then you are going to be one disappointed tramper.
Oh, for the love of the FSM.
Kea are large alpine parrots. They developed high intelligence to survive their tough environments – the juveniles especially are noted as being playful. Unfortunately, their idea of play tends to involve “tear it to pieces and see if anything is edible”. They do eat cars, or to be more exact are noted for tearing the softer bits to pieces. They lay waste to camping equipment and backpacks. They have been known to attack sheep, via hanging on to their backs and going for the kidneys.
I have NEVER heard of them attacking humans. Or head-raping them. I’m pretty sure they couldn’t anyhow.
The Haast Eagle no doubt attacked people quite happily. It’s dead now – the Maori took care of it before Europeans arrived.
NZ is very much apathetic about religion, in the main. The last PM was an atheist – I have no idea what Key is. There are some religiously based political parties – they tend to get 1 or 2% of the vote, and fail to have any representation. Islander immigrants tend to be more religious – it is from these that the Destiny Church got its strength. It had a high profile because it marched in the streets – there were, however, more people coming out to laugh at the loonies than to support them.
The greatest wildlife danger I’ve faced has been a huge bloody weta showing up on my knee when I was using an outdoor toilet. The dangers of brain-eating amoeba are greatly exaggerated, although they do supposedly exist in the hot pools – the one most persistant NZ trait is to find any possible danger, and stick a goddamned government notice up warning people away from it.
I haven’t used the tramping huts. Why on earth would I want to visit the South Island?
The parrot head-rape danger is very real. Here’s the proof:
http://www.theoptimusprimeexperiment.com/2006/10/ejaculation-helmet.html
Fernando Magyar #182:
In my medical practice I hear this all the time from our local yokels. Yes the bible can crush this ganglion cyst but as can any other heavy objects. The thing that makes the bible so apropos is that if you succeed in crushing it, these things will come back in time. Unlike out Lard Lebus who ain’t comin’ back to this hell hole.
My grandfather was in the British Police in Burma in World War two and during that long border war, the British Indian army received a shipment of bibles. These were sent to the front and to his surprise (he was a supply coordinator) the units were soon requesting more bibles. He thought its a sign of “no atheists in foxholes”, until a soldier from the front told him that the army was short of Toilet paper all the time and the bibles worked beautifully.
He also noted that non-christian Muslim and Sikh soldiers were much more likely to be shocked at this than the British soldiers. In fact, he could not find ANY Indian soldier who ever admitted to this use of the bible, but the English soldiers were quite open about it.
Some more good uses for a bible:
I saw a Sherlock Holmes spoof once, where it appeared that the clue was in a Bible verse. Holmes says “I have a Bible. I keep it at my bedside” then walks into his bedroom, lifts the end of the bed, and pulls the bible out from under the short leg…
They also can serve as flyswatters, esp. the empty cover after you strip the pages out. Or you can keep it within reach to pitch at any wildlife that came in looking for a free meal from a backpack. And don’t forget to plug the critter-hole in the shelter wall with a wad of paper (or the whole book, if it fits!)
If you want to put a survival guide in a shelter as reading material, I’d highly recommend “Tom Brown’s Field Guide to Wilderness Survival.” Excellent reading, full of stories as well as good information. Granted, it’s written for North America, but except for the plant ID chapter, the material is applicable anywhere. Pair it with a local edible plant guide, and you’re good to go!
Just don’t expect the book to stay there long.
Watch out for the kind with gold edging… it easily scratches the anus.