Man, it’s getting to the point where a fellow can’t even build a death ray or an island fortress shaped like a skull without someone getting pissy about it. Take this account, for instance, of a few people just playing around with skeletons and lab coats:
A group of students had their ‘Mad Scientist’ party brought to an abrupt end when police mistook them for terrorists.
The private party, held in Hackney, north London, was organised by a group of friends dressed in white laboratory coats and wigs, who put on a display of theatrical ‘experiments’ to entertain guests.
But when police entered the building for a routine check in the early hours of Sunday morning, they discovered scientific debris and plastic skeletons and mistook it for terrorist paraphernalia or drug-making equipment.
Caretaker of the property, Richard Watson, 29, was arrested under The Anti-Terrorism Act and questioned while the entire area was evacuated and roads cordoned off with police tape.
He said: ‘I was handcuffed and put in the back of the police van for over an hour while the bomb squad and drugs team came down.
‘There was a ridiculous amount of police there. Every time I looked out of the van I could see a new group of them swarming around.’
Three fire engines and three ambulances were also called to the scene as Mr Watson was searched and interrogated.
Note to self: clean up debris in basement soon.
//for a routine check in the early hours of Sunday morning//
That doesn’t sound awfully routine to me.
Wow, scientists = terrorists? Someone must have enjoyed (a href=”http://rufreeyet.blogspot.com/2008/06/expelled-parody.html”>Expelled.
Really, though, if this was a church gathering, the ACLU would be on this before it even touched the blogosphere.
Disappointing, but hopefully it has all be worked out.
Plastic skeletons made them believe it had to do with terrorism or drug production?
Time for some remedial science training, is all I can say. Damn, the science education of non-scientists is bad!
A few years back during the “Satanic rituals” hype, and they would have thought it had something to do with the occult.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Its not a death ray. Its a freeze ray.
Darwin’s beard! I’m too tired during finals week, and I broke my link. Sorry guys.
Now I feel like a jackass. Not only was I self promoting, blantantly and unrepentently, I was doing it badly.
So terrorism looks like an old 007 movie?
(note to self: eschew lab coats and Halloween props when making WMD’s in the UK)
Yeah, it ain’t being a mad scientist these days. Poor Dr. Wily knows that only too well…
police … discovered scientific debris and plastic skeletons and mistook it for terrorist paraphernalia or drug-making equipment
I can see that. After all, I totally use plastic skeletons to blow up jetliners. And then I use the skeletons to make crystal meth.
WANNABES! All of you, spitpolishing your prosthetic limbs, und whitewashing your liverspots for this wretched back-patting, smarty-party! The true mad scientist does not make public appearances! He does not wear the ‘hello my name is” badge. He STRIKES from below like a viper! Or on high like a PENNY, dropped from the tallest building aroundt! He has only ze one purpose: do bad things, to good people, MIT SCIENCE!!!!
What with your ‘loafer walking’ and your touchy-feeliness! What good is science if no one gets hurt?!?!
You’re not mad scientists, you’re a bunch of hippies!
Wow… can I have your
recipeformula?Clearly you don’t fly in the US, what with the limit of three ounces of plastic skeleton per person the TSA’s enforcing these days.
(Insert “carrion” joke here.)
Its ridiculous behaviour like this one behalf of law enforcement agencies that has forced me in the first place to take my secret fiendish lab to an unspecified offshore underwater volcano lair.
Honestly, sometimes I feel the governments of this world won’t be happy until every mnad scientist has been stopped in their lurid activities. All I can say is this …governments, don’t come crying to me when you suddenly need a laser capable of blowing up the moon..you’ll only have yourselves to blame.
Hmm… I’m giving a research talk in London in a few months, I should probably keep the theatrics to a minimum (Damn, I really wanted to wear that wig too!).
That’s one hell of a party!
Scientific laboratory party seen as terrorists? I smell a rat. No bones about it.
The fools! Don’t they realize that their heavy-handed tactics, rather than reducing the threat of mad science, will only serve to make MORE mad scientists?
Why do cops hate thinking so?
Brothers, they have stumbled upon the secret of the polymer bones. We must change our secret signs before the noodles are endangered.
*At least they didn’t shoot him through the head at point-blank range, maybe they’re improving*
Maybe a neighbor was hoping for a reward?
I’m pretty sure they have those “Turn in your neighbor for (up to) $5000.00 REWARD” ads in some papers and mags, with a list of things to look for: flower pots, funny smells, glassware or tubing, bright lights, buzzing or other unusual sounds, wild hair, lab coats, late-night traffic, maniacal laughter, communist literature….
(Insert obligatory “Watchmen” joke here)
Now all we need are some badass normal superheroes to fight the evil mad scientist conspiracy.
I too call shannanagins on the “…routine check in the early hours of Sunday morning.” Sounds like they busted up a party late Saturday night. Why didn’t they just throw all the skeltons in the clothing pantry?
And on a more personal note, does it count as a bathing at a party, if it’s a baby pool filled with bubbles and everyone is tripping?
Also, if it had happened in America.
Out of curiousity, is there a close UK equivalent to the ACLU?
Well, they have to justify their existence somehow…
I also need to be a little bit more careful about what I say on this blog…apparently the London police are among our viewers….
Today they’re going after the mad scientist, tomorrow it’s going to be the mad grad student. Where does it end?
Try http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/
does anyone find it funny that his name is Watson?
Just what in the Hell were the cops doing “enter[ing] the [private] building for a routine check”???
This may surprise folks who perceive my stances on some other recent threads as permissive, but this story freaks me the Hell out. Absent a complaint from the neighbors (which isn’t mentioned in the story as quoted), what business to cops have showing up at a private party in the first place, let alone treating the host like a terrorist based on pure bupkis???
These students were lucky. Had they looked a bit Muslim the Police would have turned up and shot them. Hell, you only need look a bit South American and the Met will shoot you. That is if they do not manage to shoot themselves in the foot first.
Wow, this is even more idiotic than the cop who stopped my pet and me after following us for five minutes in his car to ask her if she was okay, just because I was walking her on a leash.
This is why Mad Scientists really need to start exploiting good social engineering tactics.
Mad Social Science involves less evidence.
I heard Morris, Minnesota, mentioned on PBS’s News Hour last night for its 41 degree below zero windchill factor. Tell me living there is NOT mad. I live way down south, near Minneapolis.
Hmm, someone should call in an anonymous tip on one “Kim Ross” for mad-scientist activities. Of course, then her superpowered friends would fight back, and it would get messy…
Well, in case one would like a few more “American Justice Bloopers”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlcT-3niVes&fmt=18
http://wcbstv.com/watercooler/pennies.traffic.ticket.2.888243.html
Leaving that aside, some links with civilized content:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0s68-GLGWY&fmt=18
http://www.residentheretic.com/2008/12/some-atheist-billboards-id-like-to.html
Who needs Marx when you have mind-control nanites busily reproducing in the city reservoir?
Wow, this is even more idiotic than the cop who stopped my pet and me after following us for five minutes in his car to ask her if she was okay, just because I was walking her on a leash. – Naked Bunny with a Whip
Well, given a number of recent stories about people held captive as sex slaves against their will for prolonged periods, including some where those held were sometimes allowed out but were too cowed to escape, I’d say that cop was doing their job. Pretty much whatever adults want to do with mutual consent is OK by me (I’d draw the line only at serious physical harm), but it’s not always easy for the outsider to tell whether that consent is present. In short, if you lead someone around on a leash, you have to expect a degree of interest by others.
The high school where I taught was shut down for hours while the bomb squad dealt with a mysterious heavy duct tape wrapped package. Turns out it was a student project which involved submitting examples of objects having “high density” and “low density”. After getting a grade for his work, the kid had tossed it in the bushes. Not as fun as skeletons though.
“terrorist paraphernalia”
Hilarious. Is there any way that we can somehow get the War on Drugs people to fight the War on Terror people? Keep the both of them occupied without harassing innocent citizens?
flower pots, funny smells, glassware or tubing, bright lights, buzzing or other unusual sounds, wild hair, lab coats, late-night traffic, maniacal laughter, communist literature. – OrchidGrowingMan
Ah, those were the days… when I got to go to parties where all the above were present!
Don’t dare diss these Mad Scientists. They managed to move a whole borough from East London to North London.
Yeah, that’s the strange part. It’s not like she can’t just unhook the leash herself from her pretty pink collar. I could see it if I’d had her wrists bound or something. *shrugs* It was pretty amusing to watch him creep along behind us in his car. I doubt the people who almost rear-ended him were very amused, though.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not upset. We had a laugh and spent some time hypothesizing why this one stopped us when no other cop has, and of course I realize that he isn’t gonna know that the leash is her idea, and that she could easily beat the shit out of me despite being half my weight. I do think it demonstrates how some cops overreact to the slightest thing outside their little comfort zone, though, which is why I brought it up.
Mina loves being the center of attention, yep. I could do without it, but I want her to be happy.
re comment #2
What would the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) have to do with something in Hackney, London, UK regardless of whether it was a church event or not?
Ah, the infamous Prevention of Terrorism Act. Used mostly against cyclists who aren’t on the cycling lanes, anyone who looks askance at a policeman, and against Icelandic banks to grab what remains of their assets. Probably the worst piece of legislation in the last 200 years, and certainly the most draconian. I got detained temporarily for ‘unusual travel patterns’ at Dover once. “We don’t know you sir” they said, as I pointed out that they didn’t know those 20ish Asian guys just driving past either, and they looked a more likely target to me. Turns out I had a 10 year old visa for Mali in my passport. This obviously made me, Anglo Saxon guy in his fifties, a prime suspect. Idiots.
This incident sounds like a typical misuse of the act. My guess is that well in excess of 99% of its applications have been corrupt.
Bunny:
I was puzzled by Nick’s response to your story ’til I went back and reread it… and realized (to my blushing shame) that I’d completely misunderstood your use of the word “pet” the first time I read it.
Here I was thinking you meant a domestic beast.
(Straightline include at no extra charge!)
Now you should all know better. The party story is obviously a lie and these people were about to demand a ransom of a million dollars.
Go about your business, citizens. This is no concern of yours.
Chris Clarke:
They’ll probably let you on board with your skeleton if you buy a seat for it, but just to be safe, dress it up in a rugby shirt, cargo pants and Timberlands, and put an old Herbalife “Lose weight now. Ask me how.” button on the lapel.
I guess their first hint was when one of those skeletons started threatening “Silence! I keeel you!“
It’s true Hackney is technically north London, but it regards itself as East End. I worked there for 10 years, and believe me the police have plenty of reason to be cautious about ‘goings on’.
Oh, those British bobbies. No sense of humor at all…
“Why do cops hate thinking so?” Because they don’t have to do it much.
Jeff Dunham: “And how do you spell it?”
Achmed: “Spell it?”
Jeff Dunham: “Yes, your name. How do you spell it?”
Achmed: “A, C, Flemm…”
Plastic skeletons are drug-making equipment? Wow. Note to the police: you’re only supposed to confiscate the stuff, not smoke it.
Jeff Dunham: “And how do you spell it?”
Achmed: “Spell it?”
Jeff Dunham: “Yes, your name. How do you spell it?”
Achmed: “A, C, Flemm…”
I love when the local server gets bogged down. You get echoes.
A few years ago my dad and I are driving through L.A. for our somewhat-annual-not-happening-anymore trip to Disneyland. We have the radio on and we come to a call-in show. This one guy calls in and he starts talking about how he had proposed this idea that bin Laden, when he lived in the West, was influenced by fictional supervillains and mad scientists like Lex Luthor and Dr. No.
And then his friends laughed at him for it, and he was going to sue them. And my dad and I laughed at him for wanting to sue them. Too late do we learn how wise that caller really was.
***
To all parents reading this, I suggest you take a look at what your children might be reading. If it’s comic books, beware. Lex Luthor, Dr. Doom and Ra’s Al-Guhl may seem “cool” and exciting, but they’re are not good role models.
Magneto’s fine, though, he’s just a social activist.
“they are not good role models.”
Please disregard any typos you may hallucinate.
“Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians may say ‘ni!’ at will to old ladies.”
“Magneto’s fine, though, he’s just a social activist.”
Didn’t you know that Magneto started the War on Christmas!!! That’s why he wears that red suit in the comics. So little kids will mistake him for Santa!
Okay, I’ll go to my room now.
Considering that this is the same police force that claimed an insect sting and “injury whilst sitting down” were injuries inflicted by green activists…
Considering that this is the same police force that claimed an insect sting and “injury whilst sitting down” were injuries inflicted by green activists…
Feels gooooood, doesn’t it?
Oh, those British bobbies. No sense of humor at all… – Bob of QF
I don’t know about that. I mean, promoting Cressida Dick, who was in charge of the anti-terrorist operation that ended with an innocent Brazilian electrician being pumped full of bullets due to mistaken identity – well I laughed like a drain, and I’m sure his family had a good chuckle too!
When I was at Uni we really did blow a room up with real explosives! These guys are not even beginners…
Here’s a serious question:
Would you be so indignant if an innocent Brit was accidentally killed instead of an innocent Brazilian?
Regarding the “routine” examination, I think many of the commentators above are failing to realize this happened in England. This is par for the course over there, since their politics has always been a mixture of authoritarian monarchy and authoritarian communitarianism. It only sounds strange to Americans because of the strong libertarian roots of our founding.
On the other hand, Kenneth City, FL is currently considering an ordinance tasking city officials to enter private residences without a warrant for the purpose of conducting inspections on whether things are sufficiently “neat.”
It doesn’t sound like Mad Scientists. At best, Slightly Miffed Scientists.
Crawford #64- yes, we would be as indignant. The prime recent example is the murder/ lawful killing of Harold Stanley in London by 2 police marksmen, who shot him after an anonymous person phoned the police saying they thought there was an Irishman in a pub with a sawn off shotgun. Stanley was from Scotland, that well known part of Ireland. The shotgun was a repaired table leg in a plastic bag.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Stanley
HOwever it is not easily comparable to the Menezes case, bceause the Menezes case involved fuck ups from the top down, and more importantly, the police involved lied about what happened to try and cover up the fact everyone had fucked up.
As for the actual topic of this post, it sounds like the POlice were tipped off by some random member of the public. London being what it is these days, they are indeed lucky they weren’t shot.
Would you be so indignant if an innocent Brit was accidentally killed instead of an innocent Brazilian? – Crawford
Of course – why on Earth not? After all, I’m British myself and am not keen to be gunned down by idiots in uniform (I am bearded, and often walk around London in a rimless cloth hat and a backpack, so I probably look more like an Islamist bomber than the clean-shaven and backpack-less de Menezes did).
Among recent British victims of trigger-happy policing in London I recall the case of two British Muslims (Mohammed Abdul Kahar and Abul Koyair) who, shortly afterward, had their house burst into and one of them (Kahar) shot (fortunately, he survived) on what turned out to be worthless evidence that the house was a bomb factory. They were then subjected to a campaign of police lies and harassment, as tends to happen to anyone who complains about police conduct. Rather longer ago, there was the case of Harry Stanley, shot dead because he was carrying a table-leg in a bag, and someone in a pub thought it was a gun and that his Scottish accent was Irish, and reported their suspicions to the police. The police apparently shouted “Armed police!” from behind him, and when Stanley turned toward them (turned out he was partially deaf), shot him dead, and later claimed he had appeared to be reaching for his “gun”. In short, the Metropolitan Police are dangerously trigger-happy, and carry on behaving that way because they always get away with it – witness the way the jury at the recent inquest on de Menezes were forbidden to bring in a verdict of “unlawful killing” – although they did make clear they considered the police had told a pack of lies in their account of the shooting.
NBWAW @ 30,
*SWOON*
The fact that the inquest jury at the Menezes inquest returned an open verdict should be taken as the jury showing some independence of mind, when faced with the only other alternative, of agreeing that Menezes had been lawfully killed.
The police cover up included claims leaked to the press that Menezes had run for the train, that he had a backpack, that they had in fact shouted “armed police” beforehand, and oddly enough, things like the bus CCTV recordings didn’t work, and those from the tube train mysteriously didn’t show what they were supposed to show.
And then there are things like this blog:
http://demenezeswasanillegal.blogspot.com/
Who on earth sets them up?
Last year I read the IPCC report on the murder:
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/index/resources/evidence_reports/investigation_reports/ipcc_resources_stockwellone.htm
I suggest people read it, it does a good job of laying things out so that what happened that day is clear.
This is par for the course over there, since their politics has always been a mixture of authoritarian monarchy and authoritarian communitarianism. – Miko
That’s a gross over-simplification. There are also strong strains of anti-government, anti-monarchy and socially libertarian thought and action, going back to at least the 17th century. Where do you think your “Founding Fathers” got their ideas about limited government, free speech, and the right to representation?
Exactly Nick.
It should be noted that juries have repeatedly found against the gvt/ establishment in various cases like the Menezes one, although I can’t recall exaclty what at this hour of night. More tommorrow.
First they came for Crabby Appleton, but I never met C. Appleton so I didn’t care. Then they went after Simon-bar-Sinister, but I had never worked for S. B. Sinister and didn’t even know Cad. Then, with torches they came for Dr. Frankinsteen, Igor and I were taking night classes so I just snickered. In quick succession they picked up Drs. No, Luthor and Davaros and I became a wee bit anxious. And suddenly they were on to Drax, Joker, Harcort Fenton Mudd, Yosemite Sam and Dr. Moriarty and now I’m really scared.. . .
” … with chicks and guns and fire trucks and hookers and drugs and booze!”
guthrie@72,
A case that comes to mind is that of Clive Ponting, a senior civil servant who leaked documents concerning the sinking of the General Belgrano during the War of Thatcher’s Face (aka Falklands War) to the MP Tam Dalyell. To quote wikipedia:
“Ponting admitted revealing the information and was charged with a criminal offence under Section 2 of the 1911 Official Secrets Act. His defence rested on two issues:
* that the matter was in the public interest, and
* that disclosure to a Member of Parliament was privileged.
Although Ponting fully expected to be imprisoned – and had brought his toothbrush and shaving kit along to the court on February 11, 1985 – he was acquitted by the jury. The acquittal came despite the judge’s direction to the jury that “the public interest is what the government of the day says it is”.”
In criminal cases, the jury can, legally, ignore the judge’s directions if they like, although they are often not aware of this. Whether the same is true in inquests, I don’t know.
Only slightly OT, Is the possession of laboratory glassware still a felony in Texas?
Cops are stupid.
Hackney – north London? It may be above the Thames but it is not north London. East, and don’t you forget it. My time as a med student living in the East End taught me that the Met were not my friends. Stupid, arrogant, uncaring, racist, biased and homophobic perhaps, but friendly was never an adjective I was tempted to apply.
Moses@77,
A common temporary road sign in the UK, put up when there’s been a road accident and the road is partly blocked, reads “Police slow”. I always want to respond “Yeah, tell us something we didn’t know!”.
the routine check is not at all unheard of, lots of police departments do this. they will check exteriors of any publicly accessible places of business in areas and also often can be requested or contracted to do interior checks, often at random.
If you think about it, the Al-Qaeda has won.
When it’s your own police that’s causing civil unrest and oppresion, in the the name of anti-terrorism, but in effect causing more damage than the terrorists themselves, then you know you’re royally fucked.
Over-reacting is hardly the solution for any problem.
What’s this about a free country?
So what is the average IQ of the average cop? Maybe somewhere around 100 plus or minus 10 or 15? A small town in upstate New York several years ago refused to hire a man with an IQ of 156 because he would become very bored very soon. That was the town council’s decision, which caused me to wonder what is the IQ of people who carry guns and can shoot anyone of us at any time for any reason and not suffer consequences. Every large city is losing lawsuits over this very matter.
“scientific debris”?
Why is is that Britain is doing their best to follow the examples of our wingnuts in enacting far-right laws?
They are starting to resemble our Democratic Party. Complete appeasers to the far right, and too afraid to challenge the far-right fear-mongering.
I used to have much respect for Britain.
Well, at least they are not so far gone as to call their “anti-terrorism” act the “Patriot Act” or “Fatherland Security” (okay, Homeland Security) or other Orwellian terms our pols have fallen for hook, line and sinker.
Note to self: clean up debris in basement soon.
Hmm.. I guess I better put a slip cover on my copy of The Anarchist Cookbook.
-jcr
Cops are stupid.
Don’t count on it, especially if you’re ever arrested.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6014022229458915912
-jcr
Turning a nation into a totalitarian hellhole will not stop all the terrorists or all the dopers, but law enforcement types love the money and the power, which might have been the entire point, from the beginning.
I never knew The Thin Blue Line was a documentary.
@Bob of QF
“Oh, those British bobbies. No sense of humor at all…”
For some reason police of all nationalities seem to have had their sense of humour turned off nowadays – an over-reaction to the perceived threat of terrorism. I’m in a jogging club that uses flour (or sawdust) as a marker for a trail to be followed by club-mates. See how the police in Boston over-reacted when they came across blobs of flour!;
http://www.wtic.com/pages/1195607.php?
abusedbypenguins #83,
Do you seriously believe that a cop can shoot anyone of us at any time for any reason and not suffer the consequences ?
Exactly. At the very least they’ve got to fill out lots of paperwork – and the cops I know hate that…
Yes.
Man, if the cops ever raid my flat, I’m screwed. I’m a home-brewer and I do my own yeast culture, so I’ve got lab glassware, precision scales, temperature-controlled fermenters, live cultures in the fridge, etc. And I’ve also done some hobbyist electronics, so I’ve got a whole selection of electronics tools and components. Then there’s the radical literature (Chomsky, Marx, etc). Heck, I think I’ve still got Coup d’Etat: A Practical Handbook on my Amazon wishlist…
When they showed the photos of Bilal Abdulla’s “bomb factory” on the news, my immediate reaction was “Oh shit, that’s my flat!” Then I realised that it was much too tidy.
So what stops a cop from shooting a random unarmed grandma who is walking her dog, is that he might have to fill up lots of paperwork ?
Neg, I was being facetious; that description of why they don’t shoot more people was one I heard from a police officer of my acquaintance – and yes, he was joking.
I think most people – thanks to movies and television – have a very unrealistic idea of how taking a human life would actually impact on a person. I’m pretty sure I couldn’t, except maybe under very extreme circumstances – and even then, once the adrenaline had worn off, the reality of what I’d done would crush me.
However, I also suspect that some of the people drawn to the police and military wouldn’t be as troubled by it as you or I. You give people power like that and it does strange things to them – like in the Stanford Prison Experiment.
Dunc,
so if the cops raided your flat and one of them shot you, he would not suffer any consequences ?
So he’d just fill up the paperwork, state that he had some suspicion that you could be a terrorist, state that you were in the flat when they enterred sitting next to your computer in your lab coat and that he felt that he was in imminent danger for his life and therefore shot you. And that’s it, no further consequences for that cop ?
“Do you seriously believe that a cop can shoot anyone of us at any time for any reason and not suffer the consequences?
“Yes.”
Well… you’re wrong.
I know ;-) But I’m starting to wonder about some other commenters in this thread who seem to have seen too many cop movies.
“scientific debris”? – Entgegen
Oh, you know – corrupted data, obsolete terminology, falsified theories, old paradigms – that sort of thing.
I don’t really like cops very much (who does ?), but seeing that there are at least two commenters in this thread who seem to believe that they can shoot anyone, at any time, for any reason, and not suffer the consequences, is quite surprising.
I wonder what is the percentage of the population who share such irrational beliefs ?
negentropyeater,
While “no consequences” is an exaggeration, in the three UK cases I’ve cited, none of the police involved have been fired, let alone prosecuted, despite what seems to be clear evidence of gross negligence at least. As I noted, Cressida Dick, who headed the operation that ended in de Menezes’ death, and which it is clear involved multiple blunders and systematic lying in the aftermath, has been promoted.
Neg and Nick and you other libruls,
*MAKE MY DAY*
Nick,
there’s a BIG difference between believing that “cops can shoot any one, at any time, for any reason, and not suffer the consequences”(FALSE) and believing that “there are cases where some cops have shot someone unlawfully and not suffered the consequences”. (TRUE) There’s also cases when cops have shot someone unlawfully and had to suffer the consequences.
I don’t know what is the percentage of cops who have not suffered the consequences of an unlawful shooting, the fact that it’s not ZERO is clearly not tolerable. That’s the key issue.
Oh,and Nick,
I hold your Brazilian,and raise you a teenager,Australian cops know how to shoot innocents too….
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/kill-me-ill-kill-you/2008/12/12/1228585078632.html
Ah, the prevention of Terrorism act. Not like the old days.
Back in the 70’s, when the IRA were blowing things up in England, we were evacuated from the shopping centre when an unattended bag was discovered. At the same time my mother realised that she was missing a bag (with our Sunday dinner in it).
She described the bag to a policeman, so he took my mother to the bag and looked in. Sure enough, there was our Sunday lunch.
I wish they had blown the bag up, it was the first (and last) time I had pigs trotters.
British view of the british police.
I may have missed it, but I don’t think anyone has yet brought up the case of Dr. Steven Kurtz:
http://www.caedefensefund.org/
I skimmed the whole thread, and didn’t see one reaction to the excellent Tick reference by Janine @ #9. I’m beginning to think the geek cred of this place is lacking.
Almost certainly not. There would probably be a public enquiry, which at the worst would return an open verdict. There have been numerous examples cited of British police shooting innocent people, and the officers concerned have not suffered any consequences. I cannot think of a single example in which an officer has suffered any consequences for shooting an innocent person in the course of his duties. (By “consequences”, I naturally mean legal or disciplinary consequences. What consequences he might suffer from his own conscience, I would not care to speculate.)
Fortunately, the chances of my flat being raided by armed police are minimal, as the majority of our police officers are not armed (with guns, anyway).
If you can quote me one single example (preferably recent, by which I mean within, say, the last 20 years) where a British police officer has shot an innocent person during the course of their duties and subsequently suffered any legal or disciplinary consequences, I would be prepared to retract my statement.
To the best of my current knowledge, it’s 100%. Well, to stick strictly to legal definitions, no cops have ever committed an unlawful killing, because all shootings by cops have been ruled lawful.
Dunc,
Quite a few trigger-happy police have been suspended on full pay while investigations proceed – but since they are invariably exonerated, that amounts to a paid holiday plus minimal anxiety about the outcome.
Dunc,
didn’t check in the UK, but a quick google searh (only 1st page out of hundreds) gave this :
Cop Convicted Of Murder In Washington Heights
OFFICERS CONVICTED OF HEINOUS CRIMES
Nick: Suspension pending investigation isn’t really a “consequence” in this context (in my book). “Consequences” refer to the outcomes of investigation, not the process of investigation itself. If you’re willing to get loose about the definition of “consequences”, then obviously every action has consequences.
negentropyeater: I’m talking about the UK, because that’s the place where I live. I’m very happy that police officers in the US can be held to account, but it doesn’t help me any. If any US police officers raid my flat, something’s gone even more horribly wrong. I was also specifically talking about officers acting in their official capacity, i.e. whilst on duty.
If any US police officers raid my flat, something’s gone even more horribly wrong. – Dunc
Yes… I wouldn’t be too confident it won’t happen, given that we can now be extradited more or less on the say-so of the US authorities!
Dunc,
you’re probably correct about the UK, the situation is very particular as few cops on duty carry guns. In #91 and subsequently I was reacting to a very general statement, not a specific statement such as yours in #110 and #113 “in the UK no cops have ever committed an unlawful killing whilst on duty, because all such shootings have been ruled lawful”.
Let’s see in the comming months what happens in Greece with the investigation of the policeman who has beencharged with homicide.
Samantha @89: I never knew The Thin Blue Line was a documentary.
Actually, it is. But that’s probably not the one you’re thinking of.
Nick- thats a good example. I’ve got one of Dalyell’s books somewhere which talks about it.
PLease note that they are going to roll out tasers to the majority of police in the UK. THis is not a clever idea.
My dad spent 30 years in the polce, retired 6 years ago, glad to be out. (Lothian and borders) Apart from the usual problems with incompetent police, political meddling, racism (Not usually a problem in Edinburgh) the rot really set in in the 80’s, when the police were used as enforcers by the gvt, and I mean that in a bad sense. The gvt then turned round and talked about performance related pay and instituted silly ideas like accelerated promotion for people with degrees and suchlike. Meanwhile, reliance upon bigger and better computers and transport meant that policemen were losing touch with the reality of life on the ground, due to spending too much time in their cars, not enough knowing what was going on. Add to that a succession of gvts obsessed with targets and paperwork, and the simple fact that bureacracy grows because of trying to increase professionalism and reduce wrongs such as racism etc, you end up with police forces with a lot of problems.
Oh, and then throw in the most repressive home secretaries for decades. For some people, this is the ideal situation. But I get the impression there are fewer good coppers around now. I know there used to be quite a lot.
Look, all I wanted was some sharks with lasers!
Just a few sharks with some frakkin lasers!
And do I get sharks with lasers?!
speaking of mad scientists, anyone but me remember the computer game based on that idea ?
Meanwhile.. yes, the police overreacted. Bomb squads, chemical/drugs response unit, the works.
@OrchidGrowinMan #19
“I’m pretty sure they have those “Turn in your neighbor for (up to) $5000.00 REWARD” ads in some papers and mags”
I’m not sure if you were kidding or not, given the list you add later, but the sad thing is that they DO in fact have posters like that in the UK.
Check out an example – not from magazines, but from public signs – at Boing Boing.
“
CommunismTerrorism: If you suspect it, report it”.Suspension on full pay is automatic for police officers involved in a fatal shooting.
The only occasion I can recall where a police officer has suffered as a result of a fatal shooting was the Chief Constable of Sussex who got sacked by Blunkett, the them Home Secretary for failings in how he responded to the fatal shooting of a naked unarmed man. I recall it well as it is the only time I can ever recall Blunkett doing the right thing. Every time I think what a crap Home Secretary Jacqui Smith is, I think of Blunkett and remember things could be worse.
http://abstrusegoose.com/6
Reall Russian mad scientists story:
In 1990 a research team with the worlds leading mnemotechnology- and memory experts, started heavy research into the the field of memory technology.
The Soviets have for years had training systems for mind enhancement that are light years ahead of us… with amazing techniques that actually “Imprint” new knowledge directly into your brain. This technology took a leap when the research team in Moscow gathered all available knowledge and started doing systematic research on memory improvement. Sixteen years later the research team’s results would exceed all their wildest dreams and expectations.
Early in 2006 they had finished and extensively tested a complete system for memory enhancement. Their amazing discoveries have many times been referred to as the most significant educational discovery of the century.
In 2006, their groundbreaking research was finally published to the public, and it literally blew every memory improvement resource ever seen before straight out of the water.
This is the first time we really know and understand both the history of memory techniques and the workings of the brain with regard to memory as revealed by modern science. This has allowed the researchers to turn memorization into a serious and complete discipline.
If you want to know more about the research results, and the scientific base behind this method, you will find everything you need in the free manual available. It has 163 pages with research results, memory techniques and the most up to date memory improvement information.
I strongly advise you to put the techniques to the test personaly!
http://www.pmemory.com/improve_memory-adr.php