Andy Schlafly is one persistent fool. After harrassing Richard Lenski not once, but twice, prompting one of the best smackdowns on the intertubes, Schlafly now wants to take some vague sort of legal action against Lenski to get his own copy of every bit of data Lenski has generated in 20 years … data that he wouldn’t understand, and which would include bacterial samples that he couldn’t maintain, and requiring so much effort to collect (can you imagine having to go through 20 years worth of stored bacterial samples to create a copy?) that it would disrupt research in the lab to an unacceptable degree. That’s what he wants, of course: he’s a petulant incompetent who doesn’t like the conclusions of research into evolution, and who has to be smarting over the international peals of laughter that have been made at his expense.
Here’s the text of Schlafly’s pretentious “challenge” (Sorry, I’m not linking to the Conservapædia fecal pond).
A Conservapedia challenge is an unsolved problem or task that offers the promise of bettering society when lawfully accomplished.
The first Conservapedia challenge is to find a legal means for obtaining public disclosure of Lenski’s federally funded data.
I don’t see how figuring out a legal strategy that will enable creationists to shut down biology labs with harassment will better society.
Maybe he could try actually reading his paper?
IANAL, but supposing that someone does come up with a legal path for Schafly to follow to harass Lensky wouldn’t the fact that this challenge was posted on Conservapaedia be excellent evidence that such a legal move on Schafly’s part was malicious and an abuse of process?
If so then couldn’t Lensky promptly countersue Schafly for harassment – or should he just take the high ground with yet another devastatingly polite smackdown of a letter?
“No population evolved the capacity to exploit citrate for >30,000 generations, although each population tested billions of mutations.”
Hypothesis:
I’m thinking it will take >30,0000 generations of Schlaflys to produce a decent human being.
Start the experiment!
ARGH! Apologies to Richard Lenski for my misspelling of his name throughout my previous post!
“A Conservapedia challenge is an unsolved problem or task that offers the promise of bettering society when lawfully accomplished.”
Oh My. So many options:
Eliminate once for all any attempt to sneak creationism as science in the public school.
No more tax free pass to religion groups.
A 200% tax on most gas guzzling SUVs.
This is fun, I could go on all day.Damn work.
No! No breeding Schlaflys!
Captain Mike said:
Thank you very much for lodging that mental image into my skull so soon after lunch!
First off, Happy Birthday, Patricia! And to our great country!
Since moron Schlafly wants Lenski output of data, then give it to the demented creotard. But have it translated to Swahili, or the Albanian dialects or some other barely decipherable screed!
Conservapedia is a treasure trove of unintentional humor. The real Conservapedia challenge is to be taken seriously. Not going to happen.
It’s already in science – to Schlafly that is a barely decipherable screed.
Perhaps someone should phone Schlafly up and read the paper to him, since the relevant data he’s squealing for are ALREADY THERE, dammit.
You’d have to read veeeery slowly, though, and do squeaky voices for the bacteria to keep him interested.
OT, but here’s an online petition to crash:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bbc_springer/index.html — I’d advise people to sign it with fake e-mail addresses, these sort of sites tend to be spam-farms. The likelihood of it being acted on by the BBC is slim to nil, so if pharyngulites crash it with comments opposing the petition…
Lenski’s team should collect a few hundred pounds of dog shit and deliver it to Schlafly’s office. “THERE’S your goddam bacterial samples, pal!”
Can’t we have Schlafly declared an enemy combatant and locked into an iron mask?
#11 Actually, I think hand puppets are a better way to go when dealing with 2 year olds.
I’m sure he’ll forgive you as long as you don’t apologize to Schlafly for the same.
I still remember how our society changed from the discovery of nylon eating bugs.
Lilly de Lure @ 10 But of course! Perhaps if we took all the difficult words out and made it more easy for him to grasp as in, “See tree, leaf on tree, me want touch leaf, me moron Schlafly, duh!
Larry – puppets! What a fantastic idea! I’m up for making some finger puppets, if someone else with more camera skills wants to make a video.
What characters do we need apart from Darwin, Lenski, Blount and Andy Schlafly in a dunce’s cap?
Good. Schalfly can now demonstrate in court before an audience of dozens (about all who care) that he is indeed a psychotic moron. Hmmm, is this yet again another case of a fundie Death Cultist persecuting an evolutionary biologist? Rudi Boa was stabbed to death by one such in Australia.
Wait and see. I doubt this is a serious lawsuit and after a few headlines in the blogosphere it will probably be abandoned and forgotten.
There is a problem with filing frivolous lawsuits. They can themselves be considered legal torts (injuries). The relevant case law is malicious prosecution and abuse of the (judicial) process. If Schlafly pursues it, Lenksi should win and countersue the loon.
Okay this was funny until the part that they wanted live lab samples of bacteria…..
I am neither a lawyer nor a biologist but something tells me that the system is not fucked up enough for these people to get their wish. Can someone experienced in these matters please reassure me?
I’m thinking it will take >30,0000 generations of Schlaflys to produce a decent human being.
Ugh, no. The thought of that many Schla-Flies extending that far into the future makes me feel slightly nauseous. I’m not sure the world could survive it. Anyways, it can’t work: it requires that there be selective pressure towards decency and honesty. As long as its natural host, Credulus bigotae survives (and this seems assured), the Schla-Fly will always have a comfortable niche.
D’oh!
While we are admiring slugs, Lenski’s work has already been independently reproduced more or less. This is the most stringent test of a scientist’s work, independent repetition. If Schafly could think, he would know that.
Hall isolated cit+ E. coli in 1982, way before Lenski. He says that it required 2 mutations. Given the methodological differences, plates incubated for a long time in a start and end point procedure versus serial liquid culture, he might well have missed one or more “potentiating” mutations.
Lenski’s first mutation was “potentiating” but otherwise without phenotype. My wild guess is he picked up a mutator as 1/3 of his lines acquired a mut+ phenotype.
mutator=mutations causing higher mutation rates. Seen commonly when cultures are under severe physiological stress and possibly an example of “adaptive mutation.”
If in the off chance that the lawsuit doesn’t get dismissed out of hand, I hope Lenski slaps a really large bill on Schlafly for the materials and wasted time.
I think Lenski should comply. What could be better than delivering a collection of jam jars containing e-coli colonies to Conservapedia.
“Jar 1 contains the original colony, note the nutty, turd like flavour, quite different to the citrusy tang of generation 31,501”
Lilly, it’s really refreshing to see people admitting errors. Kudos.
Holback said:
Personally I think that’s far too kind – I’d be in favour of rallying as many pharyngulites as possible together for photocopying duties, copy all the relevant lab reports, raw data e.t.c and then arrange for the lot to be dumped on Schlafly’s lawn.
And then send him the bill for delivery.
I REALLY hope the courts see a problem with giving biohazardous material to religious fanatical organizations.
#26 Thank you John Morales – I just wish I didn’t make quite so many spelling errors to admit too!
Even though I’m an atheist, I just wish a massive hand would come down from the sky and give Schlafly a good slap.
How do you pronounce “Schlafly?” Does it rhyme with waffly?
I have a few questions:
A) Is Lenski really federally funded in any signifigant way?
B) Why does Shyster-Fly think that this is going to help is cause any?
Matt #30: Calvin (the cartoon character) said something along the lines of “It’s hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning” in reference to the bully Moe.
If this goes to court, I hope Schlafly finds out what it’s like to be Clifford Shoemaker.
Boy, without a -80 freezer, those samples are really going to stink after a while.
I’m just guessing Schlafly doesn’t have a -80. He’d probably kill himself with a LN2 backup system.
Has anyone come up with an apt title for the illustration of the moron accompanying this post and many others? How about this: “RCL” – “Raving Creotard Lunatic” Can you imagine the insane gibberish emanating from that religion soaked dolt when confronted with implacable reason? And it is being puked in the form of glossolalia! Reminds me of the scene from the movie “Blazing Saddles” when the drunken incoherent saddle tramp gets up to voice his opinions at the town meeting and lets loose with a torrent of undecipherable gibberish, and one of the Johnson clan says, “Now who can argue with that?”
Say, aren’t these Conservapaedia types the same ones who always gripe and whine and moan about judicial activism when they don’t like a court decision? And aren’t they also often the ones who cry and bawl and mewl the loudest about undue government involvement in their affairs?
(scratches chin)
And here he is, trying to game the system because someone won’t just knuckle under to his mad leet badassawesomeness. Should he have the brass cojones to actually pester the court with this nonsense, someone ought to file an amicus brief with those letters in it…
I’d like to say I’m surprised, but that would be a little white lie with bamboo sprinkles on top.
The MadPanda, FCD
(Happy Birthday, Patricia!)
Perhaps by “legal means” he’s simply ruling out illegal means. With followers like his, you can see why he’d need to spell that out.
Don’t fret, Lehli. Spellings are just phonetic approximations. Especially in names, where heterography is rampant.
Holbach, I think it’s a Gumby, one of the Monty Python characters who, despite being incredibly stupid, believed themselves to be capable of brain surgery.
This case may have some implications for the Schlafly hoo-hah. If these people are really demanding bacterial cultures, then maybe someone needs to be reporting Schlafly and his cohort to the relevant regulatory and/or law enforcement agencies. At the very least, Lenski needs to demand all of the regulatory documents (IBC minutes and protocol approvals, transport permits, MTAs, and the like). Maybe some documentation of the biosafety containment steps that Schlafly has in place. And so on.
I wanna see Schalfly’s legal precendence for this case.
[QUOTE]”Your honor, he wouldn’t show me the data and I really need to see it so that I can prove he’s wrong.”
“What’s you’re scientific expertice?”
[i]Insert cricket sound here.[/i][/QUOTE]
Eamon Knight @#21
I am old school, so I still cringe when someone says nauseous when they mean nauseated. OED agrees with this new usage, but like I say, I’m old school. Just saying.
Matt @ 30 How about something more realistic, as falling into a sinkhole or other natural event. I am sure they are a lot more numerous than your nebulous wish.
Moggie, I read it like that too, then dismissed the thought as paranoid… but maybe it isn’t. They really are demented.
Anyway, uh… didn’t Lenski already detail how and under what conditions the data (and samples) would and could be obtained? Ash Fly is only proving what a moron he is. I especially love how he never fails to utilize that wingnut red-cape phrase “Federally funded”. Hey, Androo, the Executive branch of the US Governemnt is “Federally funded”, yet I don’t see you screaming and crying and threatening legal action to increase its accountability or transparency.
The Conservatedium Challenge: To find a single ounce of intelligence or integrity in that steaming pile of offal.
That would be cruel and unusual. Only the Bush administration could stoop so low.
In any case, Schlafly’s own behaviour is more humiliating to him than anything we could devise.
If he wants it, I say send it over.
Remove everything that he might not want to share.
Gather everything that’s digital text, and fax it over, let him pay for it.
Gather everything that’s on paper, make a copy and bury his car with it.
Gather everything biologic, pour it in a barrel and dump it on his lawn, then call whatever agency deal with the permit
Gather all audio, video, computer models and email them over.
Then charge him for everything.
Or better yet, tell him where can pick it up, and charge him storage costs until he does.
@#31 “Schlafly”.. pronunciation guide : [id-ee-uht]
Miss Prism @ 18
Yes, please also include Larry Fafarman.
I dont own ‘my’ data. The university does (there can be fights over it when students/profs leave a uni).
The university also owns ‘my’ grants.
So technically, Schalfly will be ‘suing’ the Michigan State, not Lenski. lol!
Schlafly could reproduce Lenkski’s work quite easily. E. coli K12 is ubiquitous and commercially available for a nominal fee from many supply companies.
It would take undergraduate levels of microbiology expertise and simple equipment, incubators, freezers, autoclave, scales for weighing and so on.
Repetition of another’s work is far more stringent than just reviewing someone else’s data. Which he couldn’t understand anyway.
In any case, Lenski’s work has already been pre hoc repeated by another researcher, independently. Really, Schlafly is just being a jerk to be a jerk.
mutator=mutations causing higher mutation rates. Seen commonly when cultures are under severe physiological stress and possibly an example of “adaptive mutation.”
Speaking of idiots and mutators, Dave Scot of UD is making a hooplah over an “error” in the first paragraph of Lenski’s paper. Lenski speaks of selection being driven by “random mutation”, whereas Scot insists that non-random mutation should be considered as well. Scot then goes on to cite a paper where mutational rates/regions vary according to stress. According to Scot, mutations that are restricted to something less than the entire genome can no longer be considered “random”.
Scot should google “mutational hotspot”. He’d get about 263,000 hits.
For Brendan S @32
“I have a few questions:
A) Is Lenski really federally funded in any signifigant way?”…
Just as a note, historically, almost all serious academic work (in the USA, al least), is supported by grants from the Federal government. Published work lists this grant support in the acknowledgements. The paper under discussion from Dr. Lenski’s lab acknowledges support from the NSF and a Defense Fun Bio grant for this work. A scientist of Dr. Lenski’s stature is likely to have multiple grants from several different funding agencies to support the work of his laboratory (and incidently to financially support, through negotiated “indirect costs”, the institution at which the work is performed).
Hang on – Schlafly’s asking people to send him E. Coli. That’s the same bug as causes gastroenteritis, peritonitis, nasty urinary tract infections…
I say, send him a truckload. Hell, my kitchen sink hasn’t been unblocked for a week, I’ll get some in the post tonight!
How do you pronounce “Schlafly?” Does it rhyme with waffly?
Posted by: MissPrism
Despite the spelling, it is pronounced shit-fly.
Time flies like an arrow, Schlafly’s like a turd.
I think Schlafly has lost a lot face and feels he needs to recover some of it, or find a more face saving way to fail. ERV # 50 is right, MSU owns the cultures and data. I can see Schlafly suing Lenkski, and the case being tossed due to ownership issues. That way Schlafly can point to the “activist court” as his scapegoat. If he does sue MSU and wins (unlikely), I’m reasonably sure that the courts will make sure NIH protocols are followed, and only send the cultures to somebody who can handle them properly, and has the proper safeguards in place.
I posted my first win to this challenge (made shortly after the challenge came up) to my blog No Latitude. Someone pointed Schlafly to this on the talk page, but he stated that I gave *too* much unnecessary information, and he wasn’t satisfied. He wanted answers to his questions on Lenski’s page.
So I followed up and answered them as best I could, and sent most of the questions back for clarification.
I certainly hope for my win. If you want to see my responses, click the link below. I’m clearing my mantle already in anticipation!
Really even most of the nutters at Conservapedia realize Schlafly is out of line. There’s a ton of dissent over there about over there as well.
Schlafly just keeps repeating over and over in his comments that he wants the data “for public scrutiny” and not so he or anyone at conservapedia can do any sort of analysis. Which is exactly what Lenski has made available…his paper is free to be read by anyone. Of course the original materials might only be really accessible to scientists, but that’s a matter of practicality, not conspiracy. But that’s his mindset – this study does not agree with his beliefs and so he assumes everyone in the scientific community is involved in some sort of conspiracy.
What he’s asking for just makes no sense whatsoever – even were this to go to trial it would get thrown out immediately as Schlafly cannot be anything but vague about what he is asking for. And what would even happen if he won? He’d get a bunch of materials that he would have no hope of analyzing without the scientists which i’m sure he would assume are in on the conspiracy.
A day in the life of Dr. Rufus T. Lenski-
Schlafly: Your Excellency, I really don’t know what to say.
Lenski: I wouldn’t know what to say if I was in your place, maybe you can suggest something.
You do suggest something. To me you suggest a baboon.
I’m sorry I said that. It isn’t fair to the rest of the baboons.
Schlafly: This man’s conduct is inexcusable
PZ: Gentlemen!
Lenski: I did not come here to be insulted.
Schlafly: You Swine!
Lenski: Come again?
Schlafly: You worm!
Lenski: Once more.
Schlafly: You upstart!
Lenski: That’s it!
Lenski slaps Schlafly
Schlafly: I’m afraid this regrettable occurrence may plunge our NOMAs into war. I’ve said enough. I’m a man of few words.
Lenski: I’m a man of one word. Scram!
Lenski: A man doesn’t live who can call a Lenski an upstart.
Schlafly leaves
Lenski: Good Day, my sweet.
PZ: Your Excellency, I must speak to you.
Lenski: I’ll see you at the theater where they’re showing Expelled. I’ll hold your seat till you get there. After you get there, you’re on your own.
Pharyngula minion: His Excellency’s car!
Pharyngula minion: His Excellency’s car!
Done with apologies and eternal gratitude towards Groucho et al.
Wasn’t some poor microbiologist harrassed by the FBI/department of homeland security/ministry of truth for mailing some harmless bacto samples to an artist friend?
That pretty much means that Schlalflyl is encouraging a felony by demanding samples sent to him. Someone should look into that.
Thanks for the shoutout PZ! There’s a post linked from that one talking about how Sxhlafly tosses around the law just to threaten people; I think this is another one of those times. Its amazing how someone can be so preachy about biblical morality (stone teh gheys!!) while still thinking that lying for Jesus and tossing around phony lawsuits is an ok thing to do.
While they’re at it, someone put into Schlafly’s hands a science textbook that is not from a place like The Discovery Institute, and does not contain the phrase, “Evolution is just a theory.”
Maybe with a little help, Schlafly can understand that peer-review does not mean that someone else setup and repeated the same experiment over the same period of time before publication.
@ #60:
Excellent though she was, I don’t really see PZ as Margaret Dumont.
Moggie-
Your’e right. The beard has got to go.
If he files a lawsuit, he would lose badly. But I think he has no other choice. There have been tons of negative reviews on that site of his, and he knows that everyone is watching him closely, creationists and normal people alike.
So he has to try, even if to save face to the rest of the readers of that site of his. And yes, he will lose badly. But of course then he can write a huge rant on that page of his about how unconstitutional and stupid and liberal the judge was (Behe’s rant about Jones comes to mind). So he will probably sue, unless he is afraid Lenski will counter him. Consider it a move of the desperate… or the delusional.
To people like me, he is just showing off what he really is: an idiot who, when given a proper whopping of a counterargument, reverts to a state most resemblant to a dung throwing monkey (see the pathetic entry on Lenski on his page for proof). Quite amusing, for as long as the glass wall is high enough.
30 000 generations of Schaflys to evolve a decent human being?
Assuming that the average generation time over the history of our species is somewhere between 15 and 35 years, then there hasn’t been 30 000 generations of H. sapiens yet! In fact, 30 000 generations ago might even be before our last common ancestors with Neanderthals.
Actually, this explains a great deal. . . .
I get so irate when these idiots act like this. They have an unwarranted sense of entitlement (funny that, conservatives that decry entitlement acting entitled – who thought they could be SO hypocritical…) to things they have no business or expertise even talking about, let alone questioning in their exquisitely ignorant and intolerant ways. Schlafly demanding data from a “federally-funded scientist” is like a speeding driver demanding to be let go after getting pulled over because he pays the cop’s salary. This sentiment is just oozing from every pore of their argument. They have nothing to go on, so they’ll glom onto the money issue because everyone’s tax dollars goes to it, and jump up and down like a petulant screaming child in need of discipline. They are dishonest 100%, and ho no intention of listening, only muddying the works up. They are the most pernicious of malcontents because they do not seek actual resolution, only disruption for their petty fairy tale cause.
I know this is all obvious, but dammit, I can’t stop getting angry at this bullshit.
He’s a bloke, it’s probably something cock-related. Someone give him a penis-gourd, maybe that’ll shut him up and stop him harasing working scientists.
Greg’s an anthropologist, he’s bound to have a few lying around.
Then do what I do when you’re angry.
Take out the wit and snarkiness, and use it to point out how asinine these people are. Showcase that their holier-than-thou attitude is really, deep down, hilarious.
Beat down giants with humor, and you’ll win.
If only Lenski could just send him a vial of the damn bacteria and let him figure out what to do. But I guess these things have to be regulated.
Could the president order to have Schlafly’s testicles crushed if he does not read Lenski’s paper?
Benjamin Franklin @ 60 Ha!, no apologies for “Duck Soup”, but with the eternal gratitude to Groucho and the boys and poor eternally put-upon Margaret Dumont! One of their best! A gem from the movie I wish Lenski would apply to moron Schlafly: “I’ve got a good mind to go out and join a club and beat you over the head with it” Ha!, do I have your attention now you dimwit?
I must object. Swahili is far from barely decipherable. It’s a mix of Arabic and various Bantu languages, and as a lingua franca that likely had its roots in a pidgin or creole over a thousand years ago, most of the more difficult and uncommon phonemes have been weathered away over time (for instance, though it retains the noun class structure of Bantu languages, it is unlike most of them in that it is not tonal). Though fluency in Swahili requires one to be familiar with the myriad sayings and idioms that flavour the language, a working proficiency can be gained in as little as a month, and speakers of Spanish will find their accents praised by native Swahili speakers.
Elimu haina mwisho!
Michigan State University is not small potatoes. We’re talking about a major land-grant research university that can afford a veritable stable of attorneys. What does Schlafly think will happen if he starts buzzing around the head of one of MSU’s most prominent and productive researchers, threatening to hobble his work with ignorant and frivolous legal hassles?
Schlafly’s about to run afoul of a Schla-fly-swatter. Gotta hand it to the guy; his masochism must know no bounds.
Brownian, OM @ 74 Yes, but will Schlafly grasp it?
I doubt that Schlafly will follow through with a lawsuit. This is just internet saber rattling. Or in the creos case, clown hat rattling.
There are major questions of legal standing, probable cause, jurisdiction and so on. Not to mention that frivolous lawsuits can be torts themselves, malicious prosecution and abuse of the judicial process. He could find himself being countersued for legal fees and damages and end up owing Lenski big money as well as an apology.
Not to mention he could buy E. coli K12 for a few bucks and repeat the experiments himself. Which have already been repeated in 1982 by another researcher.
This is such a stupid and unprofitable line of action that even a moron such as Schlafly will figure it out. Only an idiot would pursue it much farther. Hmmmm, well I guess we will see if Schlafly is a moron or an idiot.
Yes, but will Schlafly grasp it?
Who knows? He’s gotta be fluent in at least one language, and it sure doesn’t seem to be in English.
Sabre rattling. I like that metaphor. His target is equipped with a Tomahawk missile, an Abrams Tank, and a M-16, and he tries to threaten him with a sabre.
Now that is dedicated conservatism.
Has anyone shown Shitfly his ED article? It might give him something better to worry about.
Swahili is far from barely decipherable.
I’m sure it is to Schlafly. He has enough trouble with English.
I think the good doctor should go Peter Venkman and ‘sue your ass for wrongful prosecution’ should Schlafly actually try and start a lawsuit.
Actually this is really good news.
The more Schlafly keeps this in the public attention the better. It’s a really good lab demonstration of evolution. The more he publicises it the better, I really hope he does take it court, it will raise the profile of this experiment even higher.
Schlafly seems to be going through so much trouble when there’s already a standard creotard response to this kind of research: “The E. coli are still E. coli. That’s just microevolution. You baby-eating Darwinists should call us back when the E. coli in your lab dishes turn into crocodiles, or ducks, or possibly a transitional croco-duck. Or baby humans. But please don’t eat the baby humans before we get a chance to analyze it in Jesus Lab. Righteously yours, Kirk Comfort Schlafly.
I’ve been thinking. (Oh, stop groaning.)
Instead of poking fun of Schlafly, we should be promoting him as a model of anti-science conservatism, the kind we’re trying to fight (Besides, given his borderline literacy, taunting him is like taunting the recalcitrant foreign exchange student: sure, he’s an asshole, but of what use are clever jibes he can’t comprehend?) He didn’t like the perceived ‘liberal bias’ of Wikipedia, so what did he do? Rip off their software and start his own bastard version. He didn’t like Lenski’s conclusions, so what does he do? Demand that Lenski allow him to do the same thing with his data. He’s the perfect model Conservative: whiny and petulant, unable to create anything on his own, and all the while sucking on the teat of legitimate workers to a degree that would make the most system-abusing, I’ll-blow-you-in-an-alley-for-rock junkie sit up in the gutter and say, “God man, try to show a little dignity, willya?”
Get the fucker to run for president in four years’ time. Get him on a podium, a platform, anywhere where the world can hear the bullshit he’s trying peddle (‘borrowed’ from Mommy, of course), and then we stand up and point out the Mad Max-like dystopia that leeches like him are trying to create where science and technology are artifacts left in the hands of belligerent troglodytes to use until they break and no one left knows how to fix.
Then, once the rest of the world finally gets it, we turn our attention to Schlafly himself and break his fucking nose–harsh, I know, but in my experience it’s the only thing schoolyard bullies like him understand.
The DVD version of Expelled is now listed on Amazon at http://www.amazon.com/Expelled-No-Intelligence-Allowed/dp/B001BYLFFS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1215114339&sr=8-4 . Comments are enabled, so if you’ve seen it feel free to express your opinion. Only two comments so far.
For the curious, the phrase ‘elimu haina mwisho’ is a Swahili folk saying meaning ‘education has no ending.’ You’re damn right Schlafly wouldn’t be able to decipher that in any language.
Intellectual terrorism, pure and simple.
Comments are enabled, so if you’ve seen it feel free to express your opinion.
I’ve not seen Expelled, but I see its content whenever I close my eyes, get caught in a blackout, or stare at a blank wall in an unlit, windowless room at midnight. Does that count?
Holbach @8,
But have it translated to Swahili, or the Albanian dialects or some other barely decipherable screed!
No need to go to all that effort. Schlafly obviously can’t understand Lenski’s paper even in the original English.
Bugger. I see that Brownian has beaten me to it, and with enough spare time to have learned Swahili.
The thing I have noted is this emphasis on the :
//The first Conservapedia challenge is to find a legal means for obtaining public disclosure of Lenski’s federally funded data.
//
So whats this dude trying to achieve here? Its obviously not about the research,he wouldnt have any clue what to do with the data or the bacteria,is it about him trying to make a case for some abuse of federal funding,to cause Lenski some grief that way? If not it really just sounds like abuse of the judicial process to me,or maybe just a variation of “every publicity is good publicity”.
@Ken McKnight,
stop cross-posting dude.
To MissPrizm @ #31 — a straight answer for a change.
Assuming that Schlafly pronounces his name the same way his Mama did, and assuming the US media had that right back when she was oft in the news, then it’s “SHLAFF-lee”. The first part is like LAUGH with an SH on the front, and the second part rhymes with JEE, as in “JEEzus, how big a moron can a guy be?”
Oops, sorry, that should have been “MissPrism” in the previous post.
Siyo, tayari nilisoma.
Schlafly… hmm… Isn’t that what you get when you send Mr. Schla through the teleport pod?
And on another note, not all electrical engineers are this looney.
Schlafly stole my name, I’m taking legal action.
Thanks everyone for the birthday good wishes! *grin*
I’ll volunteer my father to play Darwin, if about six of you hearty bereserkers will come hold him down, while I shorten his beard.
Schlafly posturing. In other news, dog bites man.
@ Lilly #4:
Exactly my reaction when I did the same mistake at the initial blog round. Perhaps it is the apposition to “Schlafly”. Or perhaps it is because it is a variant.
What makes me as sad as I can be: Andrew Schlafly is probably unaware of what a laughing-stock he has become, and how hard we are laughing while we point at him.
In my life, I have never seen a man as stupid and incompetent as him before. Not even all of my High School’s idiots combined are as idiotic as he is.
OT, but speaking of creationists:
Catching up on my reading I just noted that one of my union/workers insurance magazine copies features an article on US creationism. (The union is interested in good science and education, and why it can go bad – and of course anything that decreases other nations competitiveness.)
The Chris Comer/Barbara Forrest case is prominently described as well as its connection to Bush, Joshua Rosenau and NCSE gets to tell the story on education in US and Texas (and Florida and the brother Bush connection), and NAS third book on creationism Science, Evolution, and Creationism is mentioned. No creationist gets to tell “the controversy” and Josh gets final comment. Refreshing!
Brownian @85
I won’t groan because your first paragraph is a magnificant example of the reason for the “OM” after your name.
Andy, Andy, Andy. The fact that something is “federally funded” doesn’t mean that any clueless twit can obtain it on demand. No matter how much you screech and tantrum, the Abraham Lincoln is not going to come back from the Persian Gulf early because you want to water-ski.
But, but, my tax dollars paid for that boat! (Well, not really. As a Canadian, my tax dollars paid for Voice of Fire. Nonetheless, they still won’t let me take it from the National Gallery to put in my foyer.)
Anyways, Epikt’s response should be forwarded to Schlafly, preferably thousands of times per minute from a distributed network of machines around the world.
Sorry about this, but #12 is not off topic I think, or not much.
The link;
http://www.freethinker.co.uk/2008/06/27/god-leaves-stephen-green-up-shit-creek/
should fill in a bit of background but, in summary; a religious nut tried to sue someone into silence for mocking the religious nut’s nuttery. He lost and had costs awarded against him. So far, so good.
Meanwhile said nut had gloated that his victim’s said mockery was not very financially rewarding; even claiming that god made it flop. But out the other side of his face he’s claiming that the said costs awarded against him are unfair; nothing to do with god at all, eh?
There’s also something about said nut bullying a cancer charity out of accepting a donation from his victims, but then you knew that already. As per…
Just a wee peek into the future of where the Schladenflyde (sorry) thing is going…
Raven, (#23)
In the paper, Lenski et al. examined if mutators were responsible. They concluded that this observation did not have anything to do with mutators.
I’m glad to see, however, that someone is familiar to Barry Hall’s work.
With humble apologies to Blackadder:
If all the villages picked their idiot, and all these idiots got together and formed their own village, then Shlafly would be the idiot of THAT village.
Yeah, Blackadder is a good source for quotes appropriate to Schlafly’s idiocy. Simply replace Baldrick with Andrew in the following and you get some of the responses that Lenski could use in any follow up mail with Sclafly:
“Baldrick, your brain is like the four headed, man-eating haddock fish beast of Aberdeen”
“In what way? ”
“It doesn’t exist ”
Baldrick, you wouldn’t recognize a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on a harpsicord singing ‘subtle plans are here again’.
[note: I thought it was ‘cunning plan’ but it’s repeated as ‘subtle plan’ here]
You see, the ancient Greeks, Sir, wrote in legend of a terrible container in which all the evils of the world were trapped. How prophetic they were. All they got wrong was the name. They called it “Pandora’s Box,” when, of course, they meant “Baldrick’s Trousers.”
We are told that, when the box was opened, the whole world turned to darkness because of Pandora’s fatal curiousity. I charge you now, Baldrick: for the good of all mankind, never allow curiosity to lead you to open your trousers. Nothing of interest lies therein.
So Schlafly is having problems understanding Lenski’s work is he?
What we need is a Punch and Judy show set up for him, with some of these glove puppets in order to educate him. Because it’s obvious that a scientific paper is way beyond is literacy level.
Brownian @95,
Siyo, tayari nilisoma
Ceann amháin eile, le do thoil.
Schlafly is just a squirming worm (apologies to real worms) hooked on the barb of Lenski’s eloquent and masterly put down. Hell hath no fury like a creotard scorned.
Olympus hath two furies worth the duty – Eris and Nemesis.*grin*
Brownian, OM:
I think Conservapedia should change their slogan from ‘The Trustworthy Encyclopedia’ to ‘Conservapedia: When Facts Don’t Matter’.
Andy, stop being a plague on the world.
Lenski essentially sent RTFM to a KKKristian boob. Schafly obviously prides himself in being smarter than the Duggars and then mistakes that for being smarter in the non-homeskooled world. Schafly needs to act fast as ‘Merica has gotten quite tired of inadequate graduates of religioskools. Once BushCheney is gone, the Bushies will be weeded out. Then Schafly will have no chance to harass a citizen.
Well, I am a lawyer, and you can take it from me that if Schlafly is really stupid enough to try to bring this in federal court (the only venue he could realistically claim), he’s going to get a Rule 11 (c) butt-fucking he won’t believe. I hope his sanction is sufficient to force Dumbassopedia to shut down.
My Swahili is, sadly, limited to the single word “uhura,” which, for the even less multilingual than me, translates as “open hailing frequencies.”
Brownian OM If you are up and about, go over to the post “Theology is a deceitful strategy” and check the comment at # 279 by Paul W. I finally got around reading it today since PZ isn’t posting any more for today. I did not see your name beyond that post and can assume that you did not see it. Read the whole thing with attention and determine what the fuck he is talking about. Especially toward the bottom where it states that “Theology is a science without a subject”. I wish I had caught it earlier, but he wished I would “hold the friendly fire” till he said his piece. Now that I read it I wish I had responded right away if only to call him a retard. My clipped response is at # 308. I may have misinterpreted the piece but I am inclined to think that there is reason for unfriendly fire. Let me know your opinion.
What’s the difference between a schlafly and a blowfly (Lucilia cuprina)?
Nothing much, by the sound of it!
Shonny #120, that is an insult to bowflies everywhere.
Oops. Make that “blowflies.” I must be allergic to “l”s today.
It’s actually a subtler way of saying “There’s no there there” about theology.
Everything that theology purported to explain has been better explained by actual, real science.
Or another way of putting it: those words that end in the “-ology” suffix are fields of study. Biology is the study of life. Geology is the study of the earth.
Theology is supposed to be the study of God, except theologians do not actually study God. Thus, there is no subject there that is actually being studied.
Think of it with scare quotes: ‘Theology is a “science” without a subject’
so what is shagfly so afraid of?
if his position is ‘no evolution allowed’ then whats to stop him simply saying ‘ok, so something changed, godstilldidit’ and then he could go away, this sounds like a man afraid.
This is like flogging a fossilized horse.
LiarsLawyers for JesusThere are no legal depths to which we will not stoop
@108 and 109:
You left out my favorite Blackadder quote of all, and it’s particularly apropos to the Schlafly wackaloon:
“Baldrick, to you the renaissance was just something that happened to other people.”
And @117. I wonder what a rule 11 (c) butt-fucking would look like. I’m not a lawyer and have no idea what that means.
Wow, this really must have ruffled the creotards feathers.
“Help, science is shattering my worldview”
I’m getting the distinct impression that Andy Schlafly is becoming evolution science’s answer to Jack Thompson – a demon barrister blowhard who uses his “legal” career to basically garner publicity, then starts filing briefs and injunctions and veiled threats just to obfuscate and cover up his ass being handed to him all over the Intertubes. Thompson, however, has had almost the exact OPPOSITE effect in his ranting; coming out so heavily against violence in video games, becoming a media whore who uses every tragedy of school shootings or teen violence to ambulance chase his way onto television or print, has made him a rather insane, ghoulish character, and he draws attention and increases sales of the very games he protests against. Maybe Schlafly will have the same effect in scientific circles.
Then again, putting Schlafly into the same batshit crazy bucket as Thompson may be a bit disingenuous, but the man is obviously trying to use the legal system to help thwart his foes, the same legal system that the ID/Creationist crowd thought would hand them a win in Dover.
@74: Brownian
I would agree. Apart from idioms and the infernal noun class system, Swahili is really nice :)
When we were out in the Masai Mara, we were taught the phrase “Twiga huwawezi kusificha” – Giraffes cannot hide themselves. In this case, “Ujinga [stupidity] (wa Schlafly) huuwezi kusificha” applies.
One additional word of advice. Never forget that the number ten, “kumi”, ends in an i, not an a, or you may be teased for hours on end :)
I’ve found the Conservapedia talk pages on Lenski pretty interesting to read, actually, despite the horrid conduct of Schlafly and the unwelcome forum-shopping visit of the Farf.
I have no idea whether MAnderson’s post will survive, but I liked his recent comment over there. It just cuts to the chase:
There are a few people over there actually pointing out the validity of what Lenski has said and done, but Schlafly and a few others just hang on with hamster teeth onto some appearance of a technicality (Schlafly over the original raw tables, Larry over DO: “but Zachary didn’t answer my question” LOOP FOREVER), without any bloody apparent real care about the experiment or the data.
By the way, Lenski has already posted some of the additional data relating to the experiment, including the data that was skipped in the published paper for size constraints.
I suspect that will in no way stop Captain Whinefest over in Blindland.
@#7
Captain Mike said:
No! No breeding Schlaflys!
Thank you very much for lodging that mental image into my skull so soon after lunch!
Interesting. The image that came to my mind was Schlafly locked in a Petri dish.
As an attorney, I simply am at a loss for what grounds Schlafly could possibly have for a successful cause of action. My opinion does not preclude a successful action, as there could be something I am not aware of. Remember, anyone can sue, but to not have a frivolous suit thrown out requires meeting real legal standards, not just vague desires on Schlafly’s part.
B’fhéidir go mbainfeá taitneamh as an leathnach seo: http://www.dicts.info/2/irish-swahili.php
Could the president order to have Schlafly’s testicles crushed if he does not read Lenski’s paper?
—————-
Are you sure the question wouldn’t be more properly stated as “Could the president order to have Schlafly’s CHILDREN’S testicles crushed if he does no read Lenski’s paper?”
I only point this out because I’m sure the Preznit doesn’t want the degree of his depravity to be under-estimated.
Why do I have a feeling this Schlafly kook is the evil spawn of a woman named Phyliss?
Enjoy.
I woke up this morning tired, hungover from too many beers the night before, splitting headache and a bit of a broken heart.
However reading this thread has cheered me up immeasurably! I don’t know who to thank – the wit & humour on Pharyngula or the stupidity of Conservapedia?
Thank you Pharyngula :o) Conservapedia are idiots by nature …
I’m going to catch up on the thread providing new descriptions for Ken Ham next
Dinesh
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit
If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit
Dinesh @ 135 Glad your last name is not D’souza.
Yes, Tim, the ash fly is a larval form of the physh fly.
There is no tanigible subject, so theology becomes the study of the idea of God, and the “rational inquiry” into questions stemming from the presumed existence of God, and so forth. There’s a subject, but it’s a fabrication based on the assumption of the existence of the primary object of study.
Similarly: Which blueprint of the Death Star accurately represents the actual Death Star depicted in Episode VI?
Andy Schlafly keeps harping on the fact that the research is federally funded – but Lenski has already met his responsibilities under the federal grant by publishing his results. He does not owe every citizen in this country anything more – no data, nothing. By responding to Schlafly twice, he has exceeded his responsibilities. I think Schlafly thinks that he can have more access, but this is not in the grant that funded the research.
Ha!
shonny:
One is an irritating pest that emits obnoxious buzzing noises and annoys creatures of immeasurably higher intelligence. The other is just an insect.
I blogged about this June 29th and got a comment from Ames Grawert at A Candid World:
Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11(c) authorizes federal courts to impose sanctions upon attorneys or (in some circumstances) their clients for making false representations or frivolous arguments.
In Schlafly’s case, for example, any decent attorney would think twice before filing a complaint on his behalf. The case is so weak, it would be difficult to establish that it was not filed for an “improper purpose, such as to harass” or to establish that the claim was “warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for extending, modifying, or reversing existing law or for establishing new law” as required by Rule 11(b).
Sanctions most commonly consist of all or part of the other party’s legal costs, but the judge can also order a violating party or attorney to “pay a penalty into court.”
A Emmet @133,
Grma/asante!
No worries – if there’s anything I’ve learned from my 4 years at Michigan State, it’s that the university’s lawyers are very adept at protecting its interests and that of its researchers. :)
Captain Mike (#6):
So what am I supposed to do when I have to take a dump?
Well…even under the most litigious of circumstances would a court be able to compel Lenski to provide access to all of his data, sample, etc in this fashion? Though, I certainly would be most interested to see what sort of “errors” Schlafly would try to paint in to Lenski’s work.
They’re creationists. Just give them the spotlight when they ask for it. So far, they’re batting 1000 at making public fools of themselves. The reason for that is..
**runs explanatory filter :)**
!! Got it! They are private fools! You can’t get a kitten from a Rooster as they say.