Uh-oh…Casey Luskin made a significant gaffe. He claimed that Florida’s “academic freedom” bill would specifically allow public school teachers to offer instruction in Intelligent Design, and he said it with the microphones on where newspaper reporters could catch it. As Wesley says, it’s obvious that the DI is recruiting “lawsuit fodder” from the ranks of deluded schoolteachers. The DI won’t have any liability, so they can sit and provoke and let poor school districts eat the expenses of any legal cases. (Maybe the next big creationism court case ought to somehow assign blame so these criminal jokers at the DI and AiG can pay the cost of their lies, rather than the tax payers of victimized school districts.)
Now here’s the funny bit: John West of the DI rushed to spin Luskin’s comments.
Isn’t that odd? When Luskin says something stupid about the law or about the DI’s devious designs, the ideologues at the institute know they have to quickly police the message and make sure it’s twisted to conceal their motives. When Luskin says something stupid about science, though, that’s clearly less important, and silence is all that is heard from his cronies. Perhaps it’s not so odd, though: DI fellows are highly unqualified to assess the scientific evidence, while they are world-class experts in lying for Jesus. Perhaps they feel a strong personal obligation to improve young Mr Luskin’s expertise in obfuscation.
Everything the DI, and many other IDists as well, seems aimed at doing one thing, muddling the meanings of science, of evidence, of academic freedom, and of all of the terms used in these debates.
They have so completely failed to make any case in science or about academic freedom, that simply destroying meaning is what is left to do.
I still doubt that the “academic freedom” bill has much of a chance, so the lawsuit fodder problem is probably not much at the present time. Yet they have to destroy precision and meaning for the sake of their film (which is easily shredded by any clear thought), and for their future hopes.
Of course they have always twisted meanings in ID, but doing so seems to have become their only recourse by this time.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7
man, that’s jedi-quality spin. “these are not the droids you’re looking for.”
I’ve been reading a lot about how these so-called “academic freedom” bills will allow the teaching of creationism in the classroom, but have the deniers of AIDS, the Holocaust, and global warming seen this as their big opportunity to gain entry into the classroom as well?
That fact that Casey has spilled the proverbial beans means that this shite is D.O.A. I am happy for them. As long as they keep shooting their self in foot, we can keep science and do away with the mumbo-jumbo.
Think Casey has athletes tongue from continually putting his foot in his mouth?
This really is quite a nice PR strategy they’ve come up with. The fact that the bill ostensibly only covers things that are “science,” while quietly not defining what that is or who decides, leaves them open to make endless attacks on anyone who opposes it as fearing “science” they don’t like.
The fact that they are a little clumsy in selling it doesn’t undermine them much, because the whole point is the big messages, not the little slipups that take too much time to explain.
Somebody needs to inform West that it’s not about science anymore, and that they’re back to promoting the religion side again.
Maybe they don’t want the general public finding out about the wedge strategy?
Maybe the public would be none to happy about that
What’s even sadder is that they think they’re being clever….and that nobody is building their own case based on all their meddling.
Surely, as Chayanov says, nobody will let them use “academic freedom” to teach Holocaust denial or geocentrism. But they will be allowed to use ‘academic freedom’ to teach ID or AGW denial. Worse than that, they will use the so-called ‘academic freedom’ to repress a naturalistic, materialist approach in science classes. Theistards will not content themselves to teach ID, they will impose their views if they are strong enough.
Surely, as Chayanov says, nobody will let them use “academic freedom” to teach Holocaust denial or geocentrism. But they will be allowed to use ‘academic freedom’ to teach ID or AGW denial. Worse than that, they will use the so-called ‘academic freedom’ to repress a naturalistic, materialist approach in science classes. Theistards will not content themselves to teach ID, they will impose their views if they are strong enough.
Too late, Westie! We’ve got Luskin bang to rights, and you can’t un-ring that bell. The jobs of pro-science legal teams have been made a little bit easier.
man, that’s jedi-quality spin. “these are not the droids you’re looking for.”
ROFTL.
«You weak-minded fool! He’s using an old Jedi mind trick!»
Luskin is a lawyer, right? This all has a kind of Keystone Cops quality to it.
As a resident of the greater Seattle area, can I vote the Discovery Institute out of the state? It drives me nuts when it’s always referred to as the “Seattle-based” DI, or the DI of Seattle, etc. because I’ve only met a few people in my years of teaching who have questioned evolution during our coursework. I know lots of woo can be found around here, but the DI does not speak for this great city. Maybe we can package them with the Sonics when the team leaves for Oklahoma City. If the Sonics have to go, take something with them and help out the city they’re abandoning.
Let me get this straight. Casey is a lawyer, but is not trustworthy on legal topics. But the DI uses him to pontificate on evolution because of his background in – earth science?
More of Luskin’s expertise in obfuscation from his press release in Tallahassee
Quote : “Ironically, the only reason Florida Darwinists would have to fear that this bill might protect intelligent design somewhere down the road is if they already have concluded they cannot win the debate over whether ID is science. Indeed, by insisting that intelligent design must be covered by the bill, Darwinists in Florida seem to have admitted that despite their rhetoric, they really believe that intelligent design is science after all! And that may be the most telling admission in the entire debate.”:
Well that’s it folks we cannot win the debate over whether ID is science!!!ROTFLMAO
For another treat check out the excerpt from David Berlinskis latest screed, The Devils Delusion, in this months Harpers magazine. Maybe it’s just me but after reading it I felt like I’d been banging my head on cement wall.
Phil @ 12 I feel for you having the Deranged Institute
located in Seattle. It should rightly be located in Tulsa
on the grounds of that other nutcake “school”, or down in
Virginia at that other moronic “school”. Wow, can you
imagine if they decided to locate on the grounds of the
University Of Minnesota at Morris? And they tore down the building next to PZ’s office or home and erected a huge
cross that towered over PZ’s digs? And flooded that cross
with powerful lights and had huge speakers hanging from it
blasting hymns and ranting biblical insanities? And they
obviously knew who PZ is? The scenario is either too
comical or horrible to behold!
criss @ 12 I read that moron Berlinski’s “essay” on the
Readings page of the April Harper’s. What a piece of crap!
I surmised from the title “The Evidence Of Things Not Seen”
and knowing of his shit book “The Devil’s Delusion: Atheism
and Its Scientific Pretensions”, what I was in for. I’d
like to bang his freaking head against a cememt cross!
I have subscribed to Harper’s for years, and every now and then they will slip in a religious tome of some sort. But
this one by Berlinski is a kick in the face, especially
since they deemed it to good to be reviewed in the book
section. Another article, on page 57, “Falling: Confessions
of a lapsed forest christian”, is another slap in the face
especially the reference to Henry David Thoreau whom I admire and did not consider a religious wanderer.
My renewal comes up soon and this is a good oportunity to
let Harper’s know how I feel about crap like this and not
renew my subscription. Damn infuriating considering that
I am paying to have crap like that which i try to avoid.
Check it out people; the April Harper’s, page 17 and 57.
Whatever happened to Hannah Maxson? Where is that future superstar of the ID Movement incubating? Grad school, somewhere, I imagine, unless she went into law. But where?
Follow the link at Austringer to the bit about the test where the teacher (the high school teacher, I might add) comments on an student’s answer by writing “Interesting. Your belief sounds biggoted.” (double gg in the original)
Put me in mind of LOL Cats, perhaps “In UR schoolz, teaching UR childrenz”.
Man, the DI is laying Dover Traps all over Florida now. I guess they hope news from Pennsylvania doesn’t filter that far down.
#19
Ceiling blogger saw what u did there
QrazyQat-which link? Sounds interesting but I can’t find it.
All Atheists are Douchebags
Well, it’s been conclusively proven that every single atheist is a complete douchebag. I didn’t think it could be done, but in a two-part video series, it has.
I’ll expect everyone to alter their beliefs accordingly.
See, here is where I get to enjoy myself a bit.
Luskin’s bletherings are scientifically subworthless. But it is always open to him to say, “Hey, but I’m not a scientist!”
He does, however, hold himself out as an attorney. And here, in his capacity as attorney, he is giving patently incorrect legal advice. For a lawyer, that is never excusable. One doesn’t like to wish ill on anybody, but should this come back to haunt Luskin and his paymasters, well, it will be their fault and not ours.
Ob disclaimer for all you playa hatas out there: Luskin (boo hiss) is a lawyer. So am I, and I can offer no argument that I earn the oxygen I breathe. But Clarence Darrow was a lawyer as well; Thurgood Marshall was a lawyer; Peter Irons is a lawyer. Bear all that in mind before you start misquoting Shakespeare.
Mrs Tildon, please do not be so hard on yourself. Until our atmosphere is too polluted to breath, you do not have earn the oxygen you breathe. Now the water you drink is a different story.
Okay, that bold is awfully bold. Sorry about that. Just watch the video.
Glen D, I’m afraid you are exactly right in your assessment. The ‘Disco ‘tute’, contributing nothng to the world of Science, is left in a position similar to that of a film critic, but without the necessary qualifications.
A film critic must have seen, and understood the film being reviewed, the ‘disco ‘tute’ neither sees, nor understands that which they are attacking.
Sadly, the American people have no better understanding of the basic science, and are therefore easily confused. It frequently amuses me when right-wing talk-show hosts bemoan the state of public education in America, forgetting (deliberately) that it was political meddling in that same school system that mucked it up in the first place.
Response to Aethists are douchebags
That video is a response to this great multi-part series that brilliantly rips creationists. Start here and keeping working your way back via the links below the videos…
(Or search for “Why do people laugh at creationists?”)
QrazyQat-which link? Sounds interesting but I can’t find it.
scan of the test
The timeline of that teacher’s actions
There is a silver lining in all of this for taxpayers in other states. We don’t have to worry about Florida students taking any places in competitive colleges or high-paying jobs requiring rational thinking. Leaves more opportunity for students from non-cracker barrel, backward states. At least my property taxes don’t support nonsense like ID or creationism.
#12. Please keep the DI in Seattle, but Oklahoma will take the Sonics. We have enough problems now with Silly Sally Kern and her gay bashing and proposed legislation to force religion into public schools. Have some mercy! But I do feel for you having the put up with the ‘Seattle based Discovery Institute.” Despite the DI, we like Seattle and Washingtonians.
Whatever happened to Hannah Maxson?
hmm, I think Pim would know, likely via Allen MacNeill; he spent a lot (way too much) time playing around with those folks via the forum for Allen’s class experiment a year or so back.
shoot Pim Van Meurs an email.
or, try Allen himself:
http://evolutionlist.blogspot.com/
…last thing I ever saw from Maxson:
http://evolutionlist.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_archive.html
#15 & #17:
aw jeez. My Harper’s still gets delivered to my ex-house (= my ex-wife’s house), so I won’t get it for a week or two, but I am so sorry to hear that that ass Berlinski is being taken seriously therein. I feel like I get a lot out of reading that magazine; nearly every word, for years (still way intimidated by the puzzle though).
I subscribed some years ago after they published what I thought was a really excellent piece by David Quammen, that I bought to read on an airplane.
But it’s worth remembering that they also used to publish the inane stoopid of Tom Bethell years ago. I’ve never really felt that they “got” science too good. Case in point, the “Findings” feature on the last page for the last year or so, which is really pretty bad.
Maybe we can package them with the Sonics when the team leaves for Oklahoma City.
are the Sonics really going to OC?
what’s up with that? Is there really a bigger market in OC than in Seattle?
Or is it just a confusion based on the fact that the team was purchased by a group from OC?
Actually, I doubt that Casey lacks the competence to find his own ass with both hands and a flashlight.
-Ichthyic- #35
The Sonics, purchased by Okie native Clay Bennett and pals, have said that, without a new arena (upgrades on 13-year-old Key Arena is “out of the question”) they will move the team to OC, who just approved a plan to “upgrade” their arena (oh, and spend less on that upgrade than Seattle said they would do). The Legislative session just ended, and no funds were allocated towards an arena, so it looks like the Sonics will leave.
But wait, the city of Seattle says the arena lease lasts through 2010, and will not let the team out of that lease, so the two sides go to court in June to see if the lease will be upheld. Bennett says if that happens, he will move the team, and won’t negotiate at all.
40+years of NBA basketball in Seattle is likely over, and commissioner DAvid Stern is standing by his long-time friend Bennett, and says Seattle likely won’t get an expansion team. (This despite his comments on possibly expanding to Europe! Yeah, like that’ll work better than Seattle, the 12th largest market in the US!)
40+years of NBA basketball in Seattle is likely over, and commissioner DAvid Stern is standing by his long-time friend Bennett, and says Seattle likely won’t get an expansion team
Stern has done more to damage the NBA than anyone could have possibly imagined before he took the reigns. sure, the owners are pulling in more money, but the fans are more screwed than ever before.
I hate that guy.
*sigh*
I’m a old-time laker fan, but even I enjoyed watching the sonics over the years.
this is such a travesty.
very sorry to hear it. No doubt Seattle will become to basketball what LA has become to football:
teamless.
*sigh*
Don’t know how teachers in Florida could work anything in. They are so busy near full time prepping kids for the fcat examinations. It seems doing well on the tests have replaced the subjects themselves. To me, they are not necessarily the same thing.
Of course their “academic freedom” strategy–if made law–could give conservatives more than they bargained for:
“Today’s lecture on astrology will be presented by Wiccan priestess Leeza, followed by a ritual laboratory exercise in which the class will be skyclad …”
***Heads explode.**
Allen MacNeill made some comment that she’s doing charity work in some odd country. He either said it at UD or AtBC.
I wonder if all it would take would be someone befriending Luskin, letting him vent all his frustrations against evolution and the world’s upcoming godlessness, listening, and then explaining evolution and helping him find the evidence until he convinces himself. One of the DI’s pawns walking away would be very harmful to the group’s image.
I appreciate your sentiment Grammar RWA ( post #42). Luskin unfortunately sufffers from a medcial condition known as “fucktarditis”. This is a horrible diease. The person who suffers from “fucktarditis” is rendered unable to distinguish reality from make believe and thus, cannot grasp reason.
Quoth GrammarRWA: “I wonder if all it would take would be someone befriending Luskin, letting him vent all his frustrations against evolution and the world’s upcoming godlessness, listening, and then explaining evolution and helping him find the evidence until he convinces himself. One of the DI’s pawns walking away would be very harmful to the group’s image.”
Alas, GrammarRWA, your second sentence explains why your first sentence is nothing more than unfounded (even if well-intended) wishful thinking: It wouldn’t just harm the group’s image, it would also harm Luskin’s image — self-image in particular.
For several years now, Luskin has been engaged in a systematic, deliberate, calculated campaign of deceit and slander; if he were to acknowledge that evolution is valid, he would necessarily have to acknowledge that he, Casey Luskin, is Not a Good Person — nor has he been a Good Person since he first began lying for the DI and/or Jesus. At this point, it’s no more possible for Luskin to admit he was wrong about evolution than… oh… for Torquemada to have admitted that he (Torquemada) was wrong about the Inquisition.
All you’ve got to do is get them to talk. When you give a moron a microphone, you get amplified moron. And recorded amplified moron to boot.
Can’t turn water into wine as they say.