Read Twisty and Amanda for an encouraging story about how community activism can shut down a sleazebag operation, “Girls Gone Wild”. It’s a good lesson that I hope gets spread far and wide, and leads more people to cut off exploiters like Joe Francis.
Paul D says
That guy (Joe Francis) is a class-A, homogenized, pasteurized dirtbag. Irrespective of what he does for a living, he’s just an ass. Have you ever read an interview with him?
He’s a walking misogynistic cliche. He’s cartoonishly slimy actually, which makes the reality of his slime all the more appalling.
Why the bloody hell do I keep A) being unable to comment due to what have to be bizarre technical glitches and B) being ignored by both PZ (understandable) and the ScienceBlogs support address listed on the page for the “Having problems commenting?” link when I mail them asking what’s going on?
Is there a list of words that are blacklisted in posts here, and if so, why has it never been properly publicized or even mentioned?
Yeah, there must be, since that post got through but the response I typed to the actual post kept giving me a “Forbidden” error. I think some exposition would be appropriate right about now. :/
PZ Myers says
If you email to the tech, I don’t see it. If the comment fails, I don’t see it.
If you email the text that trips the annoying error to me, I can put it on the backchannel and try to get an explanation.
God, that’s appalling. I guess I shouldn’t be all that shocked that a filthy-rich porn producer is also a serial rapist, but it’s still sickening to read about it.
My thought throughout the articles? This guy’s family, and/or his first girlfriend, must have done quite a number on him. That’s some shrieking insecurity, chest-beating, and a desperate need to prove one’s virility and strength.
Who says we aren’t primates, again?
Blecch. Just reading about that guy is repulsive. I think I need a shower now.
And I suppose you’d be very surprised to hear that the staggering majority of consumers of porn are not serial rapists. *eyeroll*
Ick… That SOB’s office is about three blocks from my kids’ school; I see the bus there sometimes. I’m not looking forward to explaining “Girls Gone Wild” to my 11yo. Bravo to the ladies for putting a crimp in his, um… style.
Poseidon: Interestingly, most of the successful pornographers are very quiet, low-key people. All about the business and not about the sleaze.
Brian X says
Extreme sexual practices (which I would say making porn qualifies as) are all about informed consent. Simple point: not sober, no consent. For that reason and that reason alone, GGW’s main product is reprehensible.
If stupid drunk chicks showed you their tits for nothing all the time, you wouldn’t think highly of women either.
truth machine says
Extreme sexual practices (which I would say making porn qualifies as) are all about informed consent.
Um, all sexual practices are about informed consent. Getting someone drunk to increase the chances that they will have sex with you is reprehensible, whether you’re making porn or not.
Why do you guys have such a problem with porn?
Johnny Vector says
Um, did you read either of the original posts linked above? Things like this:
I don’t read either Twisty or Amanda saying there’s anything wrong with porn. I’ve got nothing against shirts or shoes or processed meat either, but that doesn’t mean I like sweatshops or most of the big meat processing companies.
Lya Kahlo says
“Why do you guys have such a problem with porn?”
Someone’s having trouble reading. It’s rapist joe they have a problem with and rightfully so. He’s a pig.
That said, porn in and of itself, is not wrong. Preying on drunk young women – wrong. The misogyny, racism, degradation and violence oh-so-chic in porn – also wrong.
“And I suppose you’d be very surprised to hear that the staggering majority of consumers of porn are not serial rapists.”
Well, someone’s feeling defensive of about his gigantic porn collection, huh. ;)
Well, I think the whole GGW thing is as depressing as it gets but I want to raise a point here. I have gotten plastered in my day but never did anything like this. It’s not just the alcohol that fuels it, it’s the whole attitude in this culture that if every single man on the whole fucking planet doesn’t think you’re hot then you’re not much of a woman (and therefore, not much of a human being). Get your boobs done, get botox, be a perennial twenty year old and for what? Is this about catching a husband or boyfriend? (No.) Is it even about having sex? There’s a lot of women in this country who don’t enjoy sex. Women in the USA are all dressed up (or not) with no place to go!
It makes me think of the peacock’s tail, except in this context it is the woman’s helplessness and lack of self-directedness that she is advertising. And that is totally depressing because that’s not anything resembling a real reward.
I don’t have a problem with porn, but porn used to be hokey and fun. Now it’s serious and puritanical. Figure that out.
Another thing. When I went to the Rainbow Gathering I had to problem with the nakedness. Whole families went skinny-dipping and it was nonviolent and natural. But that was in 1990 and today I wouldn’t do it because I’d be afraid that somebody with a video camera would broadcast my bod all over the Internet–and I wouldn’t have a problem with that necessarily, expect the people watching would be all drooling and saying: “Ooh, look at these wild women! Sluts! Whores!” etc. Do you see what I mean? GGW takes the body and makes it “dirty” and that’s what sells. Otherwise, who cares about seeing girls’ tits? What’s the big deal? Have you ever been to a beach in Europe? I bet GGW isn’t even a big thing over there. What does that say about the U.S.?
Have you ever been to a beach in Europe? I bet GGW isn’t even a big thing over there. What does that say about the U.S.?
Nothing that most people don’t already know, I’m afraid.
Lya Kahlo says
Kristine – I would go one step further and note that another problem with GGW is the coersive element. In that original article where joe assaults the reporter, he laments that more and more women are exhibitionists and coming up asking to be put on camera. Joe liked it better when he had to coerce women to do it – peferrably when surrounded by a big group of drunken boys so that the women would feel the extra pressure and the threat of being so outnumbered.
It’s not even about GGW making female bodies “dirty” – the US has done that since forever. It’s more that what apparently attracts viewers to GGW is the forcing, coercing, humilating women or coercing obviously inebriated young women into doing something they otherwise probably wouldn’t do. And notice how many people blame the women? Obviously, they’re “sluts” and “drunken whores” – that’s only half a step away from “she asked for it.”
More a matter of being resentful of the reminder that many people ostensibly on “my” side hold prejudices that are logically on a par with “liberals hate America.”
And yeah, other than that I think Kristine and Lya nicely summarize the problem I have with it.
Thanks, Azkyroth. Lya, I didn’t think of that, and it does seem to me that a woman in Seattle who refused to “flash” was assaulted by a group of guys, so you’re right.
Even in the best case scenario, “Girls Gone Wild” engages in some deeply unsavory labor practices, between having drunk people sign consent forms and not paying the women who actually make the money for them by performing on camera.
1. A man were drunk in public
2. someone asked him to sing a song into a tape recorder for free and he consented contractually thinking nothing of it
3. that someone sold copies of the recording and made millions of dollars from it
4. the man legally had no right to the proceeds
This would piss you off so much?
No. It’s only because there are tits involved.
The girls are stupid for signing the forms if they think they should be paid for it. Don’t you think that the girls ENJOY being filmed and in some way made “famous?” Of course they do. If they think they should be paid, they should have negotiated for payment.
Would you be less pissed if he paid each girl $1000?
Why bring up the fact that the girls make no money off it?
Would you be less pissed if they weren’t drunk in public?
That is exactly what I was complaining about, and every time porn comes up in a liberal setting you can be sure that a long diatribe about the oppression of women is going to follow, regardless of what aspect of porn was originally being discussed, with a lot of chery picking, to boot. It is disappointing to see this sort of attitude among people who should know better.
That is exactly what I was complaining about, and every time porn comes up in a liberal setting you can be sure that a long diatribe about the oppression of women is going to follow, regardless of what aspect of porn was originally being discussed,
Actually, what normally happens is that someone jumps in, nearly every time, to say that while some of those “porno people” are horrible, sleazy dirtbags, they are in fact a good person, and witch porn to boot.
PS The feminist critique of porn is in no way as simple as “Liberals hate America” and by dismissing it as such you prove that you have not even bother to look into the matter.
Jason Fox says
This is amazingly late, but I live in Bloomington, IN, where the “Girl’s Gone Wild” was supposed to be filmed. I did not take part in the protest against it, because frankly, I did not know they were coming here, but I wish I could have.