…but I have to defend Rush Limbaugh. He was detained for having a bottle of Viagra at the airport? What was he going to do, threaten Palm Beach with his little gift from god?
I think Limbaugh is a lying hypocritical scumbag, but what alarms me more here is the way airport security and customs has become an arm of fascism: a way to invade the privacy of the individual, all in the name of protecting us from the faceless evil of the other. A guy, I don’t care who it is, traveling with one bottle of Viagra is not a threat, and this shouldn’t have warranted even a prim finger wagging with eyebrow raised from an inspector.
Besides, seeing this in the news everywhere and having to imagine Limbaugh with a chubby is making me feel a little bit ill.
I’m not sure I agree with you here, PZ. I think it’s a reasonable expectation that you be searched at airports. We already know of FOUR planes that crashed (and thousands of people died) because inadequate security measures were taken. If the person is only affecting his own safety then that’s one thing, but there’s hundreds of other people on the plane. Some very basic level of security is necessary, because it doesn’t take very much to put so many at risk.
Granted, this doesn’t really apply to the Limbaugh situation, which involved a private plane, but the basic point is the same. Some lethal weapons that could help take down a plane aren’t much bigger than a medicine bottle, so while they’re searching you for the weapons, and they happen to run across some illegal medication, they have to do something about it … it’s the law.
The real problem is that too many people will use the airports, regardless of how fascistic they become. As private establishments, they have the right to impose all sorts of laws, with only a very few constraints — so why don’t they establish passenger-friendly policies, not to mention effective business plans?
They’re supported by public largesse. And people keep using them.
He could use it to batter down the cockpit door. Think of the children.
No, it’s not the law. If the purpose of the search is to detect terrorist threats to the airplane, then it should pay attention to such threats. If it fortuitously turns up a set of unpaid parking tickets, or a bottle of viagra bought from Vanuatu instead of prescribed by a doctor, or for that matter a joint, those do not fall within the parameters of the search and should be ignored. Not every branch of law enforcement enforces all the laws all the time.
Why the heck is viagra a prescription drug anyway? Why, if you’re over fifty, do you need an M.D.’s permission to get a hard on?
Gerard, Viagra is prescription-only because it has some very real risks associated with it that need to be evaluated by the prospective user and their doctor. Dozens of people have gone blind from Viagra – I’m not kidding. That’s one of the side-effects. The same chemical that dilates the blood vessels in the penis and increases circulation can play havoc with the delicate blood vessels in the eye.
All true, and all entirely irrelevant.
Which means that you could have saved yourself the trouble of typing in the entire first paragraph, and saved the rest of us the wasted time of reading it. This is PZ’s point: possession of Viagra is not a threat to aviation safety.
Why do they have to do something about it? Please explain. That is not a gimme. Their job is to ensure aviation safety. Viagra is not an illegal drug. Since it is not a threat to aviation security, why would they even bother to check if he had a prescription or not? Why is it any of their business? You deserve the police state into which this country is descending.
The way I heard it, there was just a bit of a problem involving who the prescription was written for–not made out to Rush Limbaugh.
Will this further fiasco with drugs lose Limbaugh the support of Dole republicans?
ivyprivy, attack the ideas, not the man. You’re guilty of ad hominem, and although your arguments may be right, people are not going to feel good about agreeing with you.
This is Customs. This is not airport anti-terrorism searches (that’s the jurisdiction of the TSA and happens on departure). This is handling the situation of people bringing in banned goods into this country illegally (and several prescription medications legal in other countries are still not legal here). The search was legal, and we go through it, even if just at a cursortory level, at almost every national border crossing and international flight arrival on the planet.
The 55-year-old arrived at Palm Beach (Fla.) International Airport Monday afternoon from the Dominican Republic with three other people on a private jet and underwent a routine U.S. Customs and Border Protection Service check. — UPI.
As for “protecting my privacy” his doc “used his own name”, that’s a bunch of b.s.. If his doc did, its an official ethics violation and even a legal matter (writing a false prescription) even if the doc really felt “privacy” was more ethical.
As for what that blowhard would be doing in the Dominican Republic with a bottle of Viagra in the first place? I’d rather not imagine…
I did, you *******.
Well, Joe Shelby brings up a good point … if this was Customs, then all of the stuff I said was irrelevant anyway. Of course Customs has to deal with drugs that are illegal to possess without a prescription. Just as they have to deal with people bringing in foreign meat products.
Almost everything carries risks. Viagra’s are fairly minimal. I’m not saying people shouldn’t be checked out before they take it, but M.D.s, like everyone, have a natural inclination to increase their power and their renumeration by medicalizing as much of human activity as they can. Society needs to counter this.
But, in any case, should TSA agents be enforcing the enforcement of prescription drug laws? Come on! Viagra isn’t even a controlled substance. It’s a prescriptiuon drug, like lipitor.
BTW, kudos to PZ for taking a stand on principle. Limbaugh’s been a collosal hypocrite when it comes to drug use, and it would be easy to cheer his being hoisted on his own petard.
I feel bad for his girlfriend CNN newscaster Daryn Kagan.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/anchors_reporters/kagan.daryn.html
She’s gotta deal with that chemically induced poker.
This seems to be true. I retract my arguments, but not my one-liners.
Gerard, again, it was Customs, and that is their job, among many other things.
Gerard, the article isn’t clear, but as Joe Shelby points out, this could be Customs rather than TSA. And if it was Customs, then that’s exactly the sort of thing they’re paid to do: make sure someone doesn’t bring anything illegal into the country (whether it be smuggled animals, illegal drugs, illegal weapons, whatever).
And Viagra’s risks are NOT minimal. That’s the point. I don’t think going permanently blind is a “minimal” risk, and it does affect more people than you realize; it’s not a one-in-a-million kind of thing. In addition, all of the erectile disfunction drugs carry risks of long-lasting erections that can cause permanent damage to the penis. These drugs should not be used without doctor’s supervision, plain and simple. I’ll agree with you, there are some drugs that require prescriptions that probably shouldn’t, but Viagra isn’t one of them.
A few thoughts (and as few thoughts about rush and viagra as possible);
-The reporting that I have seen mentioned other perscription drugs that may or may not have been limbaughs. It doesn’t seem all that odd that if someone came into this county with a quantity of controlled substances and had no obvious perscription for them, that customs might be interested.
-Accotding to reports, the viagra, and possibly other drugs, were perscribed to the doctor that perscribed but in limbaugh’s possession.
-What does a single, conservative-republican, christian man need with a with a drug that gives you an erection?
Y’all are missing the important point here. Rush and his followers continually bewail sexual immorality. Now, if they take their rhetoric seriously, how is a single man with Viagra any better than a homosexual? The least we can expect is for them to condemn Rush as a fornicator, and as an example of what is destroying Ameri-kuh.
:-)
That original article wasn’t clear, but a great many other articles are quite clear. He arrived from the Dominican Republic in a private plane and the Viagra was detected by Customs. TSA and anti-terrorism policies were not involved at all.
Well, you know, he just couldn’t have continued to be such a bigtime wanker without his Viagara.
I apologize for my mistake suggesting TSA was involved.
I stand by my point, that Customs should not be checking prescriptions of small amount of non-controlled substances. And I suspect if this were lipitor and not viagra they wouldn’t.
This is all about a prurient interest in other people’s sex lives. And I still question why viagra is a prescription drug.
I don’t care if it is Customs, TSA, or the Gestapo — one bottle of Viagra is not a conspiracy to undermine the economy. It’s not a threat to others. It does no harm.
Now I agree that it is rather creepy, and it does sound as if Limbaugh could have been taking advantage of the sex tourism trade in the Dominican Republic…but hypocrisy is not illegal, and vague, uninformed speculation is not an indictment. If he gets in trouble for a parole violation (is he on parole now?), I won’t feel good about it if he’s locked up for something as trivial as one bottle of Viagra. It’s cheating. It’s using the strictest possible interpretation of the law to silence a political opponent, and it’s not just.
PZ I just wanted to take a minute to thank you for maintaining some consistency in viewpoint even when a huge PoS like Limbaugh serves himself up in crosshairs on a platter, and even though you know in circumstances relating to other political issues and situations he would not step up for someone like you on the other side of the aisle with the same consistency. It seems as if fewer and fewer people are inclined to jettison partisanship for the sake of consistent pricniple.
It’s not a conspiracy to undermine the economy (who made that claim?), but it is still illegal, and Customs is bound by law to do something about it when they find it.
Unless you really want the law changed so that regulated drugs are no longer regulated, there’s nothing Customs could have done any differently.
So he’s a hypocrite and a slime-ball…the same fourth amendment that protects me protects him. I have to confess that I’ve travelled with my prescription meds in one of those daily drug-dosers instead of the original bottle. I’d hate to go to jail for undocumented possession of a diuretic!
As for his pain-killer addiction, pain is undertreated in the US and doctors are prosecuted by the DEA for prescribing effective doses of pain-killers. That’s the real pain-killer crime, if you ask me.
Thanks, PZ, for taking a principled stand.
Two questions, PZ. (1) Do you think that Limbaugh has been treated more harshly with regards to drugs than other people caught in similar circumstance? (2) Do you think that those making the decisions behind that are political opponents of Limbaugh?
Unless you can answer both those questions in the affirmative, I don’t see how you can make the accusation that anyone is “using the strictest possible interpretation of the law to silence a political opponent.” If you were to say, “I don’t want even political opponents jailed due to draconian drug laws,” I would agree. Of course. But before painting these events as a liberal conspiracy, I want to know just who the liberals are in US Customs and in Florida law enforcement, who are picking on poor, old Rush. Yeah, if he had been refused an honorary degree by the University of Minnesota due to the protests of a squid researcher there, then yeah, liberals would be to blame. But US Customs? Florida law enforcement?
If he gets in trouble for a parole violation (is he on parole now?), I won’t feel good about it if he’s locked up for something as trivial as one bottle of Viagra.
That perhaps the whole prescription drugs issue is overblown since it associates them too strongly with the truly illegal stuff, I agree, but that’s a different debate than the invasion of privacy issue this started with (and how it wasn’t since we have no privacy going through customs. Feel free to start it, but also use better examples than Rush to justify how out of whack it all is. ;-)
Similarly, I have a problem with most “absolutist” sentencing policies, both in issues with drug users (not dealers/distributors) and in the public schools (a girl giving a midol to another girl too embarrased to go to the clinic gets expelled? give me a break…).
However, parole agreements are just that – agreements to stop doing the illegal activity you were caught (or agreed) you were doing. He was given his chance. He broke it. Maybe. If his statement that the doc did some privacy concealments is true, fine, indict the doc and the pharmacist for distributing what is on the record as a fraudulent prescription. But if he’s lying (again), then he effectively stole or purchased prescription drugs without a prescription, violated his parole, and deserves whatever he gets.
Chances are it’ll just be ignored since there are states boundaries issues. He’d be charged or filed in Florida and it would take quite a bit to get California (or whatever state he was actually convicted in in the first place) to acknowledge it as a violation of their agreement. The other state would have to decide if a bottle of viagra is worth flying a lawyer down to Florida to address the situation.
But to assume that the state of Florida is using “the law to silence a political opponent” is a childish and grossly unsupported claim. This has nothing to do with his politics nor his fame. There is no evidence that Customs is the “political opponent” of Limbaugh. There is no evidence that the Sherrif of Palm Beach nor his office is the “political opponent” of Limbaugh.
There is no great political conspiracy machine where some chap sitting in some office can just pick up the phone and say “next time you see him, give Rush a little extra search – his last radio show pissed me off”. It doesn’t work that way. Law enforcement of this nature, unless its something strongly centralized like the FBI (or TSA’s “names” list), is completely local.
Guy gets off a plane from a foreign country known for drug smuggling, guy gets searched. Guy is caught violating his parole by possessing a prescription drug not prescribed to him, guy goes back to court. No political conspiracy needed.
Occam would suggest no political conspiracy required.
I think it would be reasonable if there were written protections to restrict the use of anti-terrorism measures for other kinds of law enforcement.
I was tempted to say “forbid the use,” but I can think of some cases: if you do a routine airport search and find a traveller is carrying a suitcase of marked bills from a recent bank robbery, I have trouble saying that the right action is to let them pass. There might be other ways to handle extreme cases, such as simply restricting the transport of weapons, hazardous items, and requiring the disclosure of large quantities of cash in baggage.
Anyway, I’ll put down the crackpipe now because I know I’m writing this from fantasyland. The major appeal of anti-terrorism measures to the law enforcement community is the latitude it gives them to enforce minor, non-violent drug offenses. There’s no way in hell anyone is going to put in any sort of firewall in the current political climate.
Corrections: Limbaugh’s original case was also in Florida, meaning it won’t be the legal cross-state mess it might have been and it is much easier for Florida to decide to revoke the parole agreement.
On the other hand, one of the complaints (which he did not plea guilty to) was “doctor shopping” – bouncing from doc to doc ’til he finds one willing to prescribe him whatever he asks for without question, and acquiring this prescription may have been proof that he’s been doing that after all. The Florida courts took him at his word (the rest of us are smarter than that) and he violated it.
If my memory serves me right, Rush Limbaugh is currently unmarried. Why does he need Viagra? Isn’t sex outside of marriage a big no-no for conservatives?
If the name on a prescription bottle does not match the name on the passport, both security and customs have a right to know what is going on. Is the person truly who he says he is? You have to look at the paperwork, because that’s one of the ways you catch the bad guys — by looking for discrepancies. And if the guy looks like Rush? Doesn’t matter, you don’t give somebody a pass just because you think you recognize him from TV.
Of course, this has no bearing on the publicity and possible charges, but it does explain to my satisfaction why the issue arose in the first place. It *is* a security issue.
I was tempted to say “forbid the use,” but I can think of some cases: if you do a routine airport search and find a traveller is carrying a suitcase of marked bills from a recent bank robbery, I have trouble saying that the right action is to let them pass.
So would I, but the way the system decided to implement the 4th amendment of due process is to define jurisdictions for law enforcement officers. A cop can’t just blithely enforce laws not within his domain. Like all restrictions on law enforcement, it protects the criminals to protect us all from abuse. The alternative is worse.
I fail to see why this isn’t an issue. If customs regularily searches private planes coming back from international flights and this isn’t a targeted politically based search, then if they find something illegal it is NO different than if they found one joint in my pocket and charged me. If he broke the law and the very people employed to enforce the law are the ones who discover thin it is there duty to follow through.
After reading Boosterz’s witty comment at Red State Rabble, I can’t even form a coherent opinion.
Joe Shelby: In practice, couldn’t airport security just notify police in the appropriate jurisdiction who would make the arrest while the flight was delayed? If so, then any search could be used for law enforcement even though the evidence from that particular search might not be admissible in court. I don’t want airports turned into an on-going fishing expedition for every crime and misdemeanor, though I want air travel to be safe. Jurisdictions may prevent the airport police from making an arrest (I’m taking your word for it) but they don’t really prevent them from taking equivalent actions based on arbitrary searches.
I’m not even sure he violated his parole – does anyone know the exact terms of his parole? Perhaps it only applies to prescription narcotics, not ED medication.
Now if hypocrisy were illegal – whoo. Isn’t Rush supposed to be pro-marriage, anti-drug? Doesn’t he encourage abstinence outside of wedlock? The obvious reason why a single guy would have Viagra in a known sex-tourism country would be to partake of that tourism.
Why any right wing nutcase can believe Rush is sincere or credible is beyond me. Obviously he’s made his fame and fortune and now believes that he can do whatever the hell he wants to do. If he ever had any real values, (which I doubt) they’re gone now.
Rush copped a plea in which he promised to “refrain from any violation of any law”. And this is a guy who said, ten years ago, that “if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up”.
My sympathy for Mr. “talent on loan from God” is strangely muted.
RevBDC: i think the issue now is what will the State of Florida do now that they caught him at this. Do they excuse him ’cause its just a bottle of Viagra? Do they make an example of him and charge him with new crimes as well as the parole violation? What Florida does with this knowledge may be a sign that political machinations may be involved, but on the other hand, if R.L. lied his way into the weak-ass sentence, then the people working for the state may be perfectly justified in shoving him away – its personal, not political, at that point. Rush thumbed his nose at the authorities and the authorities should have the right (within due process, which this qualifies under) to respond.
IMO, if he broke the law and it violates any of the terms he worked out with his previous shenanigans then he should pay the price for both the second degree misdemeanor of the prescription and for whatever consequences he faces on the doctor shopping crap (on which it looks from the outside that he got preferential treatment).
I didn’t want to believe it about Daryn Kagan and Limbaugh. It crumbled all of my conspiracy theories about the “liberal MSM”, with her graduating from Stanford and all…then, I realized what no one else has seemed to: Rush is sacrificing his little soldier for the cause of penetrating their front. What a hero.
Of course, SNL spoofed it, damned librools.
Sorry, I won’t waste a single molecule of O2 defending Limbaugh. If he’s been treated bad by The Man, then he can go straight to the end of my sympathy line. At its current length and rate of progress, I can probably find the time for him in a couple of thousand years.
Let Rush’s blithering dittoheads defend him. Advocacy is not fair or objective, and I do not owe him anything.
PaulC: Yes, they could, and often do, and there are probably several civil court cases out there trying to resolve the limitations of the TSA and the powers of airport security to enforce beyond merely “things that threaten an airplane or its crew and passengers”. Could TSA be a source of governmental abuse that this conversation started with? Of course. (Customs is a different issue in that its legalities of process were resolved decades ago, and much of it is what is required by international law as much as American’s rights.)
The law that put TSA in charge gives them no responsibility to see that you actually make your flight. No airport security system has ever guarenteed that. You are protected in that if you miss your flight (but are clean) the airline will compensate you and/or give you the next flight without additional charge. But the airports have a backlog of flights getting out and they will not delay a flight for one person, no matter how stupid TSA might have gotten.
Thanks Seth for clearing that up for me.
I don’t know how it is in other states, but sometimes here in California doctors will give away drugs in sampler packages to their patients – drugs that the manufacturers have dropped off to the doctors for free, in order to generate prescriptions.
I don’t know if this practice is legal or not, but it seems common for a doctor to give a sampler package of muscle relaxants to get you through the next couple of days after a weekend of playing touch football.
Perhaps the doctors issued the drugs in their own name to prevent ’embarrassing’ Rush (oops), and if that’s the case then technically I think he is following his parole. Even if his doctor gave him a sampler package of Viagra, I think he’d still be within the terms of his parole and should be fine legally. Morally he’s still a hypocrite.
But if doctors named on the bottle claim no knowledge, if no doctor actually gave him these, then Rush has broken his parole and should be hauled in before the court.
PZ missed the point, Google Dominican Republic and SEX. Famous for underage boy sex……
PZ missed the point, Google Dominican Republic and SEX. Famous for underage boy sex……
Like the others I disagree here for a few reasons.
1. He is a hypocrite who has advocated for the death penalty for illegal drug use on his show.
2. He is a hypocrite who has bemoaned the loss of family values and claiming marriage and sex exist only for procreation while being divorced three times and clearly visiting other countries to have sex with prostitutes.
It’s not the crime PZ it’s the hypocrisy.
And yes, it was to visit prostitutes that he went there. He’s too fat, ugly and old to be getting laid honestly, and middle-aged single men don’t travel with viagra to foreign countries to visit the local zoo. He probably has to travel to get laid because too many people know him here and his misdeeds would quickly get reported. I only hope someone follows his tracks from this visit and finds out which brothels he frequented.
Forgot to mention, it’s great to see someone who has argued for the fascism you dislike actually get nailed by this.
He should be overpublicized that he got nailed for such a minor crime. It needs to be reported more and more so even fat old white guys realize their rights are at risk too. What a better posterboy for excesses of security and law enforcement that fat old white Rush Limbaugh getting hassled for his penis pills?
To restate my previous point, it’s not so much that I couldn’t conceive of defending Rush in some cases, but there’s a question of priorities. We all have a limited amount time and resources, when I think about defending Rush Limbaugh, I first ask myself:
(a) Is there some embarrassing lint on the back of my clothes that I ought to look for first?
(b) I don’t really know the percentage of foreign vs. domestic cars out in the parking lot. Maybe I should go count them.
(c) Am I really doing enough to protect my house from meteorities?
It’s not that there could be no conceivable circumstances when I’ll find time to defend Rush. If I do, PZ’ll be the first to know.
jmruzik,
I was just thinking that there was a trend.
Rush:
o Is anti-drug – but he does use illegal drugs
o Is pro-marriage – but divorced several times
o Is pro-abstinence out of wedlock – but is going on sex tours
Does the next step in this (completely unscientific) trend have something to do with his anti-gay stance?
Hypocrisy: not a crime.
Hoist on the petard of his own mindless insistence on legalism: true enough, and there is some poetic justice to that…but do you think that once Limbaugh is nailed, the officious fascists will stand down? That you won’t ever be a target, because you aren’t a big fat idiot with a radio show?
I noticed that Salon’s War Room http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/ had a similar take to PZ’s on this story. I halfway agree: it’s not much of a story and we look desperate trying to trump it up. But if it causes Limbaugh any distress then so much the better.
No, hypocrisy isn’t a crime, but neither is Schadenfreude. I also don’t consider it a moral failing to refuse assistance to others quite capable of helping themselves. Limbaugh has plenty of people to defend him already.
I had a similar take on this story, PZ, although I think it’s likely that he did have more than Viagra on him (since the story mentioned Viagra “among other things”). Mostly, though, I just feel bad for Rush.
Yes, he’s a hypocrite, and yes, I disagree with him about everything. But the man has a serious problem, and addiction treatment doesn’t seem to have helped. It’s not worth him dying just to silence a political opponent; all the people I’ve seen commenting (notably at AMERICAblog) and hoping for Rush’s drug-assisted demise are simply goulish, in my opinion.
Agreed, hypocrisy is not a crime.
But Rush and conservatives who agree with him have claimed the moral high ground for years. This lack of morality by someone who claims to be better than his opponents because of his morality needs to be pointed out.
Sure, liberals have also claimed moral high ground, and also get exposed for not walking the walk. Do you think that because we forbear to point out Rush’s hypocrisy that conservatives will give us a free pass on our next screw-up? It’s not gonna happen.
If we all ignore each other’s hypocrisy, it won’t just go away, it’ll get worse.
And if Rush has violated the terms of his parole, it isn’t hypocrisy. Personally I’m content to let the court decide if he’s going back to jail.
Now if hypocrisy were illegal – whoo. Isn’t Rush supposed to be pro-marriage, anti-drug? Doesn’t he encourage abstinence outside of wedlock?
Like every good rich loudmouth wingnut, Rush knows restrictions like that are for the ‘servants’, not people like himself.
Please keep in mind, he was already on probation for doctor shopping. He’s smart enough to know he was doing some risky shit that they’d nail him for if they caught him.
I do wonder what would have happened if they’d found the pills on him with no ‘priors’.
Call me a ghoul, but I do hope for the end of Limbaugh’s career and influence. I’m disappointed that the hearing problem didn’t do it, and I’m disappointed that the oxycontin abuse didn’t do it.
Now I don’t approve of issuing a Coulter-like fatwa against Limbaugh, and if something really terrible happened to him and he were to suffer, I could extend some level of empathy. I don’t want him to live in pain, lose his money, or have his family and friends abandon him. I do want him to shut up. It won’t solve every problem out there, but it’s a step in the right direction. I’ll take whatever set of self-inflicted circumstances causes his career to end and breathe a great sigh of relief over it. I sure as f— won’t shed a tear; it might even be worth popping a bottle of cheap bubbly over.
Sorry big guy, but Customs checks everyone and they aren’t looking for weiner pills, but all kinds of illegal substances.
Now, the real story isn’t the Viagra. I don’t care that the pseudo-macho Limbaugh needs weiner pills. Lots of men need them because of the side effects of other medication or physical impairments.
The reals story is what was Rush (the blowhard Prince of Rightwing Morality) doing in the Dominican Republic with a bottle of Viagra? Amoung other things, it is the Western Hemisphere’s #1 Child-Sex Tour destination.
Umm. Isn’t checking Rush for an illegal drug prescription at customs kinda like checking Tommy Chong’s bags on his way back from Jamaica… their reputation preceeds them.
I sense that viagra is recreational drug for some. And it’s not supposed to be treated as such… just like oxycotin. You may not need the prescription but you may enjoy it’s effect on you. I don’t think doctors are prescribing anti genital wart drugs in their own name to spare their patients embarassment.
I wouldn’t call you a ghoul, Paul. I want Limbaugh to go away just as much as you do. And also like you, I’m not going to hope that he hurts or kills himself to accomplish that, unlike a lot of people I’ve seen around the blogs in the last day or so.
Speaking of Tommy Chong, where’s the outrage? Here’s a guy who did time in the pen for selling glass pipes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Chong
PZ,
Hypocrisy is not the crime. Having an illegal prescription is.
U.S. Customs always has the option of invading the privacy of people entering the country. That’s just the way things are. The fact that Limbaugh had recently entered into a plea bargain based on the charge of doctor shopping, and is apparently back to doing the same kind of thing should be a concern. Not a clever thing to do for a person on probation. Limbaugh’s own lawyer says that his doctor had prescribe the drug for Limbaugh but had had it labeled as for the doctor “for privacy purposes”. I suspect that’s not quite kosher, and it smells a lot like the kind of behavior that got Limbaugh into trouble with the law in the first place.
Isn’t there a black market for viagra?
Right. The problem was that he had a prescription drug with someone else’s name on it, when he’s already in trouble for prescription drug abuse.
That it’s Viagra simply makes it fodder for the late-night comedians. Considering where he was coming from, though, I’m not really sure I find it all that funny.
Note that as far as I can see from any of the news accounts, Rush was released without being charged. (though he was held for at least three hours, I can’t find any explanation of why – it isn’t clear, for example, that he was being detained on illegal drug possession charges, since possessing Viagra without a valid prescription is only a second-degree misdemeanor. That “double checking his identity” theory may actually hold water)
This means that the more this story gets played, the more Rush gets to play the double card of both “victim of oppression” and “thoroughly vindicated”. I’m sure this is a wonderful opportunity for him – what conservative gasbag wouldn’t love to have a reason to yell “help, help, I’m being oppressed!” and feel self-righteous about it? (while avoiding all the nasty consequences of actual oppression)
Any idea who it is who wrote the wire copy that every news site seems to have as their main source for the story? I’d almost believe that Rush (or his lawyer) hyped the story up hoping for some kind of public backlash against the authorities so that Rush’s plea agreement wouldn’t go away.
All, I can say, is that it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
Can’t wait to hear what Franken has to say.
Stuart
He is so going to play the victim.
Wonder if anyone in the Dominican Republic knows what he was doing there.
He could of been there for a Cigar conference or something.
Hey, if he was detained for 3 hours to answer some questions and that’s all that happened… the story really is bigger than the facts.
RIR writes “If my memory serves me right, Rush Limbaugh is currently unmarried. Why does he need Viagra? Isn’t sex outside of marriage a big no-no for conservatives?”
Pehaps its OK if you have sex with yourself.
Limbaugh is having sex with the one he loves.
They knew he was coming… to the Dominican Republic.
http://www.drsol.info/forums/portal.php?topic_id=1377
Seth: “Rush copped a plea in which he promised to “refrain from any violation of any law”. And this is a guy who said, ten years ago, that “if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up”.
My sympathy for Mr. “talent on loan from God” is strangely muted.”
Rush has used his pulpit to urge his millions of listeners to support harsher drug laws for well over a decade. His work has undoubtedly caused pain and suffering for a number of people; it’s a moral imperative that he should be punished by those laws that he’s spent time and energy supporting.
PZ, I’m a little confused about your argument. Are you saying that anyone should be able to carry around an illegal bottle of prescription drugs, or just Viagra, specifically? It certainly sounds like this had the appearance of an illegal prescription, having someone else’s name on the bottle and all. Or are you saying that Customs should ignore such prescription violations completely?
If a nameless convicted drug addict was intercepted at Customs with a similar bottle, detained for a few hours while they looked into his story, and then released and not charged, I’d say that the response was reasonable, proportionate, and appropriate. I don’t see why that changes because it’s Limbaugh.
I think he was ssaying that someone shouldn’t be harassed over something as harmless as Viagra. Anyone. Not just Rush.
So then there’s certain drugs it’s “worth” hassling people over and others that it’s not? That gets awfully confusing to law enforcement (especially considering most people don’t know anything about the various chemical names that likely appear on the label of the bottle). Are we going to have to hand law enforcement a huge list of drugs that are worth persuing prescription violations of, like Oxycontin, as well as a huge list of drugs that aren’t worth persuing prescription violations of, such as Viagra? PZ, I just don’t understand your defense of Limbaugh. I think it’s reasonable for Customs officials to be questioning people over illegal prescription medications. We don’t want the law enforcement trying to act as pharmacists and doctors and trying to determine which illegal prescriptions are “okay” and which should be stopped (and don’t kid yourself, there are lots of prescription drugs out there that are incredibly dangerous and easily abused). That’s for the courts to decide.
Hypocrisy ain’t illegal, but neither is schaudenfraude. What is illegal, however, is crossing international borders with illegally obtained prescription medicine.
You don’t need to rush to the defense of people you hate when they break the law just because you hate them.
Speaking of customs problems, sildenafil (Viagra) is now a doping drug for some bicyclists at high altitudes http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-06/aps-vih061906.php .
How does that work, with the saddle and all? Curious mind wants to know.
Yes. As long as it’s clear its for personal use, and it’s not something genuinely dangerous, why not? If you want to slap them with a small civil fine, like hitting them with a parking ticket, that seems reasonable…but the US zero-tolerance policy is simply destructive and leads to nothing but overloaded prisons.
“Curious mind wants to know.”
Curious, I’m sure. “Inquiring mind” is the correct idiom, however.
Thats all fine and dandy as a goal to work toward but now the fact is he was being searched in what seems like a routine customs inspection and he got busted. The extrainious crap that’s come up because of it (jokes, guesses at the reason for the DR trip etc..) are a side note. The fact he’s got a history of breaking the laws on drug issues is not a side note, its important.
He’s just saying we shouldn’t cheer anyone getting oppressed by officials splitting hairs.
Where I might disagree with PZ is that Rush made a deal to stay out of jail for some serious drug felonies. And I’m sure the DA got a lot of shit from many sides for it. Rush possibly skirting those same prescription laws can’t make the DA’s job or position any easier.
And I would hope a customs agent would look at your prescriptions just to make sure your name is on the bottle… that’s just a minimal check they are supposed to do regardless of what the drug is.
I’m not sure I agree with you here, PZ. I think it’s a reasonable expectation that you be searched at airports. We already know of FOUR planes that crashed (and thousands of people died) because inadequate security measures were taken.
Let me try to respond to this in a calm, polite and reasonable manner.
Here goes.
WRONG. WRONG WRONG. WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
Um. They had box cutters. Box cutters. Not bombs, not swords, not lethal gases, but common household utility knives.
Is searching everyone so thoroughly that a razorblade can’t slip by really the answer? Is that what we want?
Consider this – I can get a knife made of obsidian. Sharper than steel, won’t show up on a metal detector, I could easily conceal it in a carry-on item.
The only way searching can prevent someone from bringing on board a sharp object is strip searching and full cavity searches of every passenger.
All of which still has nothing to do with the issue of people reading the names off my pill bottles to make sure I’m not carrying grandma’s digitalis.
PZ:
He got detained for a few hours, and he might be charged with a second degree misdemeanor. Is that oppressive?
My feeling is that contrary to your assertion that you “hate to do this” you actually relish the opportunity to demonsrate your fairmindedness. Personally, I love to laugh at anything that deflates Limbaugh’s public image and causes him some personal annoyance. I don’t get to pick and choose what it will be, so I think I’ll enjoy a chuckle over this episode and spare everyone the sermons.
It was customs… when he got OFF the plane. It’s not about plane security.
The luggage search is for contraband be it produce or drugs… they are searching
for small things.
I’m glad I got my illegal cheese in from Paris through customs.
PZ, It’s difficult to criticize anyone for trying to apply law consistently and fairly but I ask you sir, what is consistent and fair about drug law? The law is it what it is. Limbaugh appears to have violated it. I’ve seen no evidence that he was unfairly singled out for search. PZ, everyone who comes back into the US is subject to extreme search procedures whether they’re bloated talk show hosts or not. So Customs found some controlled drugs that didn’t match his passport. As they say in the UK, “It’s a fair cop.”
End of story.
You’re not being inconsistent or opposing anything in celebrating this hypocritical bigots bust. If it had been you or me, or any one of a million other people, do you think anything else would have happened?
limpbaugh has slid through the legal system just as many other rich, white folk have. That he he got caught up in this little kerfluffle bothers me not at all. That it may have violated the terms of his parole, if for no other reason, is more than reason enough for the publicity and attention.
Let it go PZ. This is not the hill you want to die on. Not on this sibject, not with this offender.
RUSH LIMBAUGH: ‘HOW DID BOB DOLE’S LUGGAGE GET ON MY AIRPLANE? I TOLD MY DOCTOR I WAS WORRIED ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION’… …CUSTOMS DID NOT BELIEVE ME WHEN I TOLD THEM THAT I GOT THOSE PILLS AT THE BILL CLINTON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY’…
Listen at http://themediacrunch.com/2006/06/27/rush-election/
(From Drudge)
PZ is not arguing based on whether or not what Rush did was wrong. He is making the satement that he got busted for a bottle of viagra. If he was busted for a bag of coke in the bottle of viagra that would be a different story.
It seems to me that customs is being a little overzealous with their searches to bust someone on not having a prescription. And let’s face it. How many people actually go to the Dominican Republic for Viagra. They may go there with it for some action, but I think the best cheap viagra comes from Canada or the UK.
Can’t we just drop all this arguing, and instead have Rush Limbaugh skinned and his hide used as material to make a remote-controlled squid? I think the world would be a much better place with a remote-controlled squid than with Rush, and I’m fairly sure the squid wouldn’t… wouldn’t… HEY, YOU IN THE JAPANESE SCHOOLGIRL OUTFIT, GET AWAY FROM THERE!…
A sex enhancement drug of questionable legality was found in the luggage of a person coming back from a known sex tourism destination. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for Customs to detain said person for further investigation.
A few hours inconvenience is hardly oppression. That this particular individual may have fouled up a legal action they were involved in by this is his own darn fault.
Maybe it wasn’t Viagra. Maybe it was another kind of blue pill (oxycontin, maybe?) in a bottle labeled Viagra.
I was reading over in freeper ville the various comments… just to see their take on it.
Its alot of the “they’re harassing the wrong people” crap… ie muslims aren’t getting harassed… anyone believe that?
But one odd comment was something to the effect… “The liberals better not make a stink… all their Hollywood buddies are on it.” What does that even mean? All the hollywood liberals are having sex… and that’s bad? Huh?
Isn’t there a Nascar team that goes around and around a track every week with a giant VIAGRA logo on it?
http://www.callingallwingnuts.com/audio/mstark-podcast-2006-06-27-1346.mp3
hehe… catch what he slips in at the end of the call.
We have such a list. It’s made up of the various schedules of the Controlled Substances act.
Oxycontin is a narcotic and a Schedule II controlled substance, covered by the Controlled Substances act. Simple possession carries up to a year in prison. There is no federal penalty for simple possession of Viagra without a prescription. It’s hard to believe, I know, but if you run down to the phamacy to pick up your grandmother’s prescription for Celebrex, the Feds won’t arrest you.
Back in April the Florida prosecutor and Rush entered into a little bet. The prosecutor bet Rush that he couldn’t stay clean, and Rush bet the prosecutor that he could. The details of the bet required Rush to be found guilty of the single charge of prescription fraud, with sentencing to be deferred for a period of time. If Rush is able to stay clean for that period of time, the charge is dismissed. This is a fairly routine deferred sentence, but if Rush loses the bet, the prosecutor is no longer required to prove Rush’s guilt at trial since he has already been found guilty. All that remains is to impose a sentence (often referred to as an acceleration of sentencing). If Rush was, in fact, bringing into the country prescription medications he did not have a prescription for (which is stupid as most doctors will give out Viagara prescriptions like they were beads at a Mardi Gras parade), then he could, and most likely will, be toast.
I love that Limbaugh got busted and I also love that liberals can be consistently principled.
But wait, PZ–what’s this for???:
“Besides, seeing this in the news everywhere and having to imagine Limbaugh with a chubby is making me feel a little bit ill.”
Awww, groan!! That’s exactly the kind of homophobic stuff Rush would end a diatribe on. Come on, PZ–for some of us his chubby might be the only thing worth saving!
I think it’s just common practice for customs to check that your name is on the prescription bottle you have in your bag. No matter what it is. Is it even required that
you travel with your prescibed medicine in the original bottle?
That’s not homophobia. That’s dread that Limbaugh might still be capable of reproduction.
Not wanting to think about chubby’s chubby does not make one homophobic.
Eew. Just Eew.
Hey Stevie in NYC–
You’re missing the point. It’s one thing to disparage someone’s lack of character (Rush is truly human trash) and it’s another to abstractly disparage someone’s (mine) sexual orientation. A decent analogy is the way in which French film immortalized the “male gaze,” excluding women and women’s experience from the point of reference of the viewer. I’m just saying that straight guys, liberals and jerks alike, tend to do the same with heterosexuality. Your sexual tastes become the default wallpaper of discussions like this, making my perspective a prop for your jokes, rather than another pair of eyes from which to view the situation. And that sucks, if you don’t mind me saying so!
I think you’re missing the point.
ANYONE male or female being attracted to RUSH and or his chubby is gross.
stevie_nyc: I wouldn’t go that far. Somebody might find Rush’s body type or male member attractive, and that’s really none of my business. In practice, there are people out there superficially similar to Limbaugh with whom I might agree on important things, and I wouldn’t be inclined to deny them sexual legitimacy out of a fancied resemblance to a rightwing radio demagogue. In principle, well, it’s basically just none of my business.
On the other hand, that’s not what PZ said or what you said originally. It doesn’t literally make me ill to think of Limbaugh with an erection, but it is not an image that attracts me or one that I want to contemplate much. I’m entitled to that personal preference, and rather baffled as to how that would make me homophobic.
Ann Coulter is equally one I wish not to consider in a state of sexual arousal.
Eew. Just Eew.
That’s because you don’t have “knowledge of an evil act” (scienter) in your conduct. The mere picking up a prescription for your granny is not an evil act. Having the prescription filled in her name for your use is an evil act.
Frankly, I bet Limbaugh screwed up and inadvertantly waived his 5th Amendment rights during the search. Chances are they bullied him into admitting the bottle was his and he incriminated himself and they ran with it. Contrary to the belief of many, you don’t ever have to answer a policeman’s questions and policemen are NOT YOUR FRIENDS. As my attorney taught me, the two best responses to the police are:
1. Are you detaining me, or am I free to go? And,
2. I don’t consent to a search.
Followed by,
3. I wish to have my lawyer present for any further questions.
Now, you can’t always use your 4th amendment rights with impunity, for example, in Customs searches like what happened to Rush. But, you still don’t have to incriminate yourself and you should never bow to intimidation.
Except as someone else has pointed out, Viagra is potentially dangerous. Mixed with the wrong (also prescription) medications, or with the wrong preexisting conditions, it can be lethal.
I don’t disagree that our drug laws need revamping in this country. I do think that most small time drug offenders need counseling and treatment, not jail time. But Limbaugh shouldn’t be treated differently — better or worse — because he’s a celebrity.
dAVE has a point: The bottle was “labeled as Viagra”. Oxycontin also comes in blue pills.
I, a straight chick, agree that the idea of Rush with a chubby is kind of gross, but to me the idea of being in any position to hear his whining voice (clothed or not) is more the problem than body type/looks. The thought of hearing “ooh baby” from him makes it particularly disgusting.
As for what Rush could have been doing with Viagra in the DR, here’s something to consider. The last line on the second page is particularly scary.
http://www.wired.com/news/ebiz/0,1272,44888,00.html
Ann Coulter is equally one I wish not to consider in a state of sexual arousal. – stevie_nyc
I know. The rain of human blood, the smell of brimstone, the horrible shrieks of the damned… I am with you.
As for Limbaugh, the issue is not about pecker pills, it’s about the delicious irony when a pompous windbag rails against the evils of drugs and wishes lengthy incarceration for users, then after getting popped HIMSELF for doctor shopping and Oxy abuse is caught (red handed?) with his doctor’s bottle of instant-wood. And why was he in the Dominican Republic (which has a huge sex tourism industry including child sex slaves) with another man’s bottle of weiner-hardener?
I’m sure the explaination will be very family friendly and replete with moral value. I can’t wait to hear it!
He didn’t explain at all. Basically said I had a great time, wish I could tell you about it,,, “wink wink”